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Thread: Choose to Believe?

  1. #11
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    Did you honestly do all that?

    All the study, and effort?

    I ask, because I did much the same, throughout my life.

    I have looked into other spiritual beliefs, and, even "magic." (MANY late nights, by myself, in my college Library, reading, and studying things that were not a part of any of the classes I was taking...)

    And, like you...nothing came to me. Neither God, nor His Son, appeared to me.

    Neither seemed to speak with me.

    Or, at least, I did not seem to hear at that time.

    Only later in life, after many years, in and out of "belief" did I finally "hear." Then, I started hearing a lot! (But, not like some "voice" in my head. Instead, a "voice" in my soul. A voice that has always been there.)

    I do not know why it all worked out this way, but, I assume it was because I had to grow. I had to "learn to hear."

    This is why I like to have (semi-)intellectual discussions on Faith and Religion (I say 'semi' as I expect many non-believers do not see my discussions and arguments as "intellectual...")

    It has all been very, very personal. And, looking back, I realize that "opening up" and "believing", or, rather, the lack of, was all on me, not God's unwillingness to "meet my standards."

    I understand that none of this probably means much to you, and, I can easily understand how you can just write it off to me, believing in a "silly myth."

    But, that has been my personal experience with faith.
    Al Swearengen: What's your partner so mad about all the time?
    Sol Star: He's not mad.
    Al Swearengen: He's got a mean way of being happy.



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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Choosing to believe ridiculous nonsense is what leftists call "that's my truth." Abraham Lincoln allegedly said, "If you consider a dog's tail to be a leg, how many legs does a dog have?" "Five." "No, he still have four legs and a tail because your considering his tail a leg doesn't make it so." But, for Barbra Streisand, the dog would have five legs. That's her truth and according to leftists, and religious folks, their truth is just as valid as yours.
    What you believe, and arguments for or against it, is not the topic of this thread. Neither is it, 'Make fun of other people's beliefs!'

    HOW we arrived at our worldview, is the topic.

    So. Why did you choose atheism? What influences convinced you this was the Nature of the universe?

    ..an irrational leap of faith? To attract hippie chicks? To shock your relatives? Because a 'religious person!', hurt your feelings 50 years ago? Science? Personal experience? God didn't hop, when you said, 'Frog!'? Did you just choose to believe ''ridiculous nonsense!'?

    What made you decide that atheism was the condition of the universe? Why is your experience superior to other's?
    "God grant that by my persevering labours I may bring a little stone to the frail and ill-assured edifice of our knowledge of those deep mysteries of Life and Death where all our intellects have so lamentably failed." ~Louis Pasteur

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedgin View Post
    Did you honestly do all that?

    All the study, and effort?

    I ask, because I did much the same, throughout my life.

    I have looked into other spiritual beliefs, and, even "magic." (MANY late nights, by myself, in my college Library, reading, and studying things that were not a part of any of the classes I was taking...)

    And, like you...nothing came to me. Neither God, nor His Son, appeared to me.

    Neither seemed to speak with me.

    Or, at least, I did not seem to hear at that time.

    Only later in life, after many years, in and out of "belief" did I finally "hear." Then, I started hearing a lot! (But, not like some "voice" in my head. Instead, a "voice" in my soul. A voice that has always been there.)

    I do not know why it all worked out this way, but, I assume it was because I had to grow. I had to "learn to hear."

    This is why I like to have (semi-)intellectual discussions on Faith and Religion (I say 'semi' as I expect many non-believers do not see my discussions and arguments as "intellectual...")

    It has all been very, very personal. And, looking back, I realize that "opening up" and "believing", or, rather, the lack of, was all on me, not God's unwillingness to "meet my standards."

    I understand that none of this probably means much to you, and, I can easily understand how you can just write it off to me, believing in a "silly myth."

    But, that has been my personal experience with faith.
    Outstanding post. Well said. I'm sure many can relate to your experience.

    I've never heard voices, seen any apparitions, nor had any out of body experiences. Some have, i suppose, but it seems to be rare, and is not really useful, nor essential, to be introduced to the Almighty. It is a spiritual transaction, and is done in the spirit. The natural man cannot perceive the things of the Spirit, because they are spiritually discerned. ONLY when the spiritual eyes are opened, which is the work of God, can these things be perceived.

    Deadlines, ultimatums, threats, blackmail, promises, crocodile tears, formulas.. NONE of these things can open the spiritual eyes of the natural man. Only the mysterious 'choice', or election from God can cause the seed to germinate and grow.

    It is not a satisfying way, from the human perspective, but, 'tis mercy all. My advice to those unregenerated souls, trapped in this space/time continuum?

    Ask. Seek. Knock. No threats. No bargaining. No negotiations. Complete surrender, is the cost, and you must give everything you think is yours to your Maker. Jesus is/was the Creator. He came to redeem us from the ravages of sin. It is a free gift, but it will cost you everything.
    "God grant that by my persevering labours I may bring a little stone to the frail and ill-assured edifice of our knowledge of those deep mysteries of Life and Death where all our intellects have so lamentably failed." ~Louis Pasteur

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  7. #14
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    As a young kid (preschool) I was fascinated with a piano, my Grandma's piano. Whenever I was in her house I asked to play it, and she would unlock it, twist the stool up high and tell me not to bang on it. I began by noticing how certain notes sounded good played together.

    She was very religious and went to church every Sunday. Sometimes I went with her. I asked her why they didn't have a piano in her church. She said it was sinful to have a piano in church. I thought about that, then I innocently ask, "Well, why do you have one in your house?" She never ever gave me an answer that made sense to me.

    When I was about 12 one of my younger brothers got a Bible for a birthday present from an Aunt that lived in Texas. His name was embossed in gold on the cover. One day I decided that I was going to read it myself just to see what it really did say about a piano in church. After reading where God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die in the day that they took the apple I was dismayed, bewildered. God is a liar, I wondered?

    As I got older at age 18 I decided to go to all the churches in the vicinity and ask to talk to the preacher to find out what they thought and taught about God. I went to several. Not one made me believe as they did. None. So, I decided I really was going to read the Book, and ask God to show me what it meant when I did not understand what I was reading. I was sincere. I really wanted to know.

    This was the beginning of my "worldview" as you ask. I am not a member of any Church. I have good friends that are in many denominations and non-denominations as well.

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    i think it's sad when we get into the realm of "well only part of the Bible is true" or "It could not have happened that way"


    Scripture knew that the Earth was round before man did
    “It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” (Isaiah 40:22)


    Scripture knew that light and radio waves can be used for communication
    “Can you send forth lightnings that they may go And say to you, ‘Here we are’?” (Job 38:35)

    Scripture knew the Earth rotates around the Sun before man did
    “He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7)


    Scripture knew that personal hygiene is important (washing hands, etc)
    “Now when the man with the discharge becomes cleansed from his discharge, then he shall count off for himself seven days for his cleansing; he shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in running water and will become clean.” (Leviticus 15:13)


    Scripture knew that information for life is in the Blood
    “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement.” (Leviticus 17:11)

    Scripture knew about what we call dinosaurs long before we did
    “Look at Behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength it has in its loins, what power in the muscles of its belly! Its tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of its thighs are close-knit. Its bones are tubes of bronze, its limbs like rods of iron. It ranks first among the works of God, yet its Maker can approach it with his sword. The hills bring it their produce, and all the wild animals play nearby. Under the lotus plants it lies, hidden among the reeds in the marsh. The lotuses conceal it in their shadow; the poplars by the stream surround it. A raging river does not alarm it; it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth. Can anyone capture it by the eyes, or trap it and pierce its nose?”


    Scripture knew about medical quarantines before man did
    “As long as he has the infection, he remains unclean. He must live alone in a place outside the camp.” (Leviticus 13:46)

    Scripture knew the theory of evolution is not correct
    “Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.” (Genesis 2:1)
    Bring out your dead- The monster is amongst us waiting to be revealed - he bears the number of a man, 666. His Title is Anti-Christ


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    The Bible, God's Word, is the foundation for all knowledge. It doesn't contain all knowledge, but is the premise, the foundation, that all knowledge is built upon.

    Scientific atheism is premised on a falsehood. That is, knowledge founded on the notion that God is not real, Spirit does not exist, and this has led to outrageous and fantastic theories concerning the beginnings of all that there is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWF View Post
    The Bible, God's Word, is the foundation for all knowledge. It doesn't contain all knowledge, but is the premise, the foundation, that all knowledge is built upon.

    Scientific atheism is premised on a falsehood. That is, knowledge founded on the notion that God is not real, Spirit does not exist, and this has led to outrageous and fantastic theories concerning the beginnings of all that there is.
    If god is real shouldn't it leave "footprints?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by usfan View Post
    What you believe, and arguments for or against it, is not the topic of this thread. Neither is it, 'Make fun of other people's beliefs!'

    HOW we arrived at our worldview, is the topic.

    So. Why did you choose atheism? What influences convinced you this was the Nature of the universe?

    ..an irrational leap of faith? To attract hippie chicks? To shock your relatives? Because a 'religious person!', hurt your feelings 50 years ago? Science? Personal experience? God didn't hop, when you said, 'Frog!'? Did you just choose to believe ''ridiculous nonsense!'?

    What made you decide that atheism was the condition of the universe? Why is your experience superior to other's?
    I didn't choose atheism. I didn't decide to be an atheist. I realized one day that there was no evidence of the existence of gods, demi-gods, angels, demons, and devils. There is no evidence of a magical power that answers prayers and runs the universe. So, I mostly believe in what is real, verifiable, and is supported by evidence. I say mostly because I believe some things I can't prove with evidence are real. Magical gods, demi-gods, angels, demons, and devils are no any of those things.

    My experience isn't superior. It is rational. It is reasonable. It is based on a total lack of evidence for the belief in gods, demi-gods, angels, demons, and devils.

    Bottom line, you realize all of that but your beliefs make you feel good and that's okay.
    Last edited by patrickt; 11-18-2021 at 12:07 PM.

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    There are no "gods" that is correct. There only God and His Word for us.
    Bring out your dead- The monster is amongst us waiting to be revealed - he bears the number of a man, 666. His Title is Anti-Christ


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    Choose to believe.

    I think it might be possible that whether or not we believe is hardwired within us. For me......it's a hard wire. I couldn't not believe. It's just not in me to do that.

    I don't need tomes of words to convince me to believe. The belief is there and was there from birth. Is it possible to acquire belief that wasn't originally there? I hope so, but I don't know.

    There is far more going on than any of us realize. My hope is that death will release the bonds that hold back our understanding.




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