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Thread: Importance of Church standards

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Physics Hunter View Post
    With as far apart as the initial churches were spiritually, they might as well have been not just separate churches, but essentially their own denominations. They had differences of personalities, doctrine/interpretation, and even local culture.
    Note that Paul and Peter did not try to write some unified document to be reprinted and universally adhered to. They both, and James and others set to righting churches and individuals that had gone astray of the basic truths taught by Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

    They never reached the DEGREE of seperation, in the NT Church, that is inherent in Denominations. It's not enough for modern-day denominations to "get along" with each other - the point is that they should NOT EXIST. No apostle could "work" with a denominational church to make it more "scriptural". To do that it would have to CEASE being a denomination, and the pride in the legacy of it's own name and history, it's legal status as a corporation, finances, and everything else involved, is rarely, if ever, going to be sacrificed by the ones who run it and make their living from it.

    The greatest tragedy is that the people who run these organizations, and those who are members, do not understand what the NT Church is supposed to be and WHY their current "church" is SECTARIAN by NT standards. They do not grasp the PRINCIPLE of unity in the church, and where the line is, that, being crossed, makes a church a SECT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    I kind of get what Physics Hunter is saying.

    Early on the separate churches developed independently with sporadic contact with either Jerusalem or Rome. From scripture we know that they struggled with vestiges of Judaism - like whether they should be circumcised, eat meat dedicated to deities, or observe the Sabbath according to OT standards.

    Even if I got some of those wrong, Paul's message was the same - we are free in Christ and his sacrifice on the cross! As people who are born again (and I understand that there are those here who question my own spiritual rebirth - which is fine - Christians should always accept criticism and exhortation from their brothers and sisters in Christ and adapt accordingly) we are no longer under law but grace.

    That grace does not cause us to live in sin or according to the flesh, but instead the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and we can use our freedom towards repentence and striving towards holiness.

    The point is that we are saved through faith in Jesus and what he fully accomplished upon the cross, not by being "good".

    Do you understand WHY the "seperate churches" in the NT were not really SEPERATE in the way in which denominations are?
    Last edited by SharetheHedge; 09-17-2021 at 11:04 AM.
    "Two possibilities exist - either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying. (Arthur C. Clarke)

    "I do not object to the concept of a deity but I'm baffled by the notion of one that takes attendance" (Amy Farrah Fowler)

    "Tolerance is the last virtue of a dying society." ​(Anon.)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny1 View Post
    Churches are simply houses of fellowship. I have found nowhere in the Bible that it requires it to be a place of learning. In fact, we are instructed to "read and study the scriptures daily...." to learn about God and His purpose for us.
    Churches have overstepped their proverbial "bounds". Instead of nurturing and caring for the flock, they seem to care more about contributions. Some churches require an "audit" to determine if they are tithing properly.
    Doctrine seems to be dictated by the "needs" of the constituents. If they want you to give 10% of your income, they preach tithing. If they want you to stay home on Sunday, they preach Sabbath. That is why there are so many conflicting doctrines in Christendom.
    I do the best I can. I try to show my Heavenly Father that I will accept my place in His government, and will submit to His Will.
    I learn about God through Reading, Prayer and the Holy Spirit.
    No that I am good at it or anything, but you kind of missed the God part of Church, Worship.
    Scientist, Evangelical Christian - reformed, father, entrepreneur, hunter, outdoorsman, motorcyclist, Constitutional Conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOnly2 View Post
    I suppose so but I guess Im just saying that it takes more to convince a Catholic that you are sincere than it does to convince a protestant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    I kind of get what Physics Hunter is saying.

    Early on the separate churches developed independently with sporadic contact with either Jerusalem or Rome. From scripture we know that they struggled with vestiges of Judaism - like whether they should be circumcised, eat meat dedicated to deities, or observe the Sabbath according to OT standards.

    Even if I got some of those wrong, Paul's message was the same - we are free in Christ and his sacrifice on the cross! As people who are born again (and I understand that there are those here who question my own spiritual rebirth - which is fine - Christians should always accept criticism and exhortation from their brothers and sisters in Christ and adapt accordingly) we are no longer under law but grace.

    That grace does not cause us to live in sin or according to the flesh, but instead the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and we can use our freedom towards repentence and striving towards holiness.

    The point is that we are saved through faith in Jesus and what he fully accomplished upon the cross, not by being "good".
    Not bad!
    Scientist, Evangelical Christian - reformed, father, entrepreneur, hunter, outdoorsman, motorcyclist, Constitutional Conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    They never reached the DEGREE of seperation, in the NT Church, that is inherent in Denominations. It's not enough for modern-day denominations to "get along" with each other - the point is that they should NOT EXIST. No apostle could "work" with a denominational church to make it more "scriptural". To do that it would have to CEASE being a denomination, and the pride in the legacy of it's own name and history, it's legal status as a corporation, finances, and everything else involved, is rarely, if ever, going to be sacrificed by the ones who run it and make their living from it.

    The greatest tragedy is that the people who run these organizations, and those who are members, do not understand what the NT Church is supposed to be and WHY their current "church" is SECTARIAN by NT standards. They do not grasp the PRINCIPLE of unity in the church, and where the line is, that, being crossed, makes a church a SECT.
    You must have been reading from the book of 2nd Opinions...
    Scientist, Evangelical Christian - reformed, father, entrepreneur, hunter, outdoorsman, motorcyclist, Constitutional Conservative.

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    And just to mess this discussion up, I come out of an independent fundamental evangelical Bible church background.
    No denominations, no higher organizations, just our church, the Bible, God, and loose social association with other independent Bible believing churches.
    (For that last part, fellowship, softball, basketball, shared services and loaner pastors once and a while...)

    We self govern, democratically. Our pastors are hired guns that work at the pleasure of the church.
    Scientist, Evangelical Christian - reformed, father, entrepreneur, hunter, outdoorsman, motorcyclist, Constitutional Conservative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    Catholics started the Vietnam War - it was a Catholic missionary to whom a Vietnamese
    warlord turned to for French support in 1787.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty...rsailles_(1787)

    Once the United States got militarily involved in 1955, the predominant religion represented among fatal casualties was Roman Catholic.

    Vietnam War U.S. Military Fatal Casualty Statistics | National Archives
    we should have hacked our ally Ho Chi Minh but noooooooo the US had to make one of the dumbest decisions of that period. S Vietnamese Government was corrupted, we knew it. IF we had backed Ho Chi Minh, the war would have been a non issue as the southern government would have collapsed.

    Ho Chi Minh when to the Russians after we turned him down. Funny how Vietnam is united today and most all have moved past the war.
    Last edited by yeuemmaimai; 09-18-2021 at 08:41 AM.
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  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    Do you understand WHY the "seperate churches" in the NT were not really SEPERATE in the way in which denominations are?
    For one thing, they were recent creations.

    Our current denominations are only about 500 years old and came out of a cultural and political revolt against the Catholic church.

    The early churches were started by Jesus' disciples or people trained by them. They had a distinct doctrine that was opposed to the prevailing paganism and emperor worship of the Roman Empire. They had to somewhat stick together to face persecution.
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-18-2021 at 03:51 PM.
    Free as f---

    Let em come, we are Millwall!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeuemmaimai View Post
    we should have hacked our ally Ho Chi Minh but noooooooo the US had to make one of the dumbest decisions of that period. S Vietnamese Government was corrupted, we knew it. IF we had backed Ho Chi Minh, the war would have been a non issue as the southern government would have collapsed.

    Ho Chi Minh when to the Russians after we turned him down. Funny how Vietnam is united today and most all have moved past the war.
    Truman died just short of seeing the failure of his containment doctrine.
    Free as f---

    Let em come, we are Millwall!

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