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Thread: Why are non-Catholics US Christians against abortion?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    Why is murder immoral and against the law in every civilized place?

    It has nothing to do with individual "rights". Those are a relatively new invention.

    Murder is immoral for the same reason homosexuality is immoral - both compromise the propagation and survival of a community.

    Abortion and condoms do the same thing as murder and homosexuality - remove individuals from the gene pool.

    No religion involved, but then again religions are based on morality, and morality is based on one thing.

    Community survival.
    And so does masturbation. And so does choosing not to marry and have a family.

    Homosexuality has not been considered immoral in every civilized place. Murder has not been illegal or even condemned in every civilized place. Consider the Salem witches who were murdered and the people lynched in the U.S. I'm sure Salem and New York considered themselves civilized.

    Religions are not based on morality. They're based on fear, money, and control.

    I can't imagine someone saying abortion and condoms do the same thing as murder and homosexuality. Condoms and homosexuality do not necessarily do harm. Murder and late-term abortions do.

    Your assertion is truly bizarre and not rational.
    Last edited by patrickt; 09-16-2021 at 03:51 PM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Murder has not been illegal or even condemned in every civilized place. Consider the Salem witches who were murdered and the people lynched in the U.S. I'm sure Salem and New York considered themselves civilized.
    The people in Salem were charged under both English law and Massachusetts Bay Colony statute. Due to a temporary suspension of the colony charter at the time of the trials, rules of evidence were vague and more or less made up. While the governor may have been wrong to decide what constituted evidence (including incentivizing informing on others in return for the death penalty being withdrawn), the executions were based upon existing criminal statute, and thus not murder.

    Lynching may have had a blind eye turned towards, or encouraged and even facilitated by judicial officers and law enforcement, but it was officially extrajudicial execution and constituted murder.

    What other examples do you wish to cherrypick that I can skewer?
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-16-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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  3. #123
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    MBC in 1692 was relatively civilized so far as the method of execution for its witches. All but one were hanged. The exception was one old man who was pressed to death with weights.

    Giles Corey - Wikipedia

    35 years later - in 1727 - Scotland was still burning to death their witches.

    Janet Horne - Wikipedia
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-16-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    The people in Salem were charged under both English law and Massachusetts Bay Colony statute. Due to a temporary suspension of the colony charter at the time of the trials, rules of evidence were vague and more or less made up. While the governor may have been wrong to decide what constituted evidence (including incentivizing informing on others in return for the death penalty being withdrawn), the executions were based upon existing criminal statute, and thus not murder.

    Lynching may have had a blind eye turned towards, or encouraged and even facilitated by judicial officers and law enforcement, but it was officially extrajudicial execution and constituted murder.

    What other examples do you wish to cherrypick that I can skewer?
    Let's see, you justified murder by Christians and by lynchings. Lynchings didn't occur because of anyone turning a blind eye but because of civilized communities turning out en masse to kill.

    You're skewered nothing and apparently accept that your nonsense, that murder and homosexuality were somehow similar and the same for condoms and abortion, was irrational. That's a step in the right direction.
    Last edited by patrickt; 09-16-2021 at 04:36 PM.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Let's see, you justified murder by Christians and by lynchings. Lynchings didn't occur because of anyone turning a blind eye but because of civilized communities turning out en masse to kill.

    You're skewered nothing and apparently accept that your nonsense, that murder and homosexuality were somehow similar and the same for condoms and abortion, was irrational. That's a step in the right direction.
    I didn't justify murder or lynchings. I said that the executions in Salem were not murder and that lynchings were murder (though allowed because of corruption or intentional lack of oversight).

    Law in 1692 was different than in 2021. Acknowledging that does not mean supporting it ( and whether I support the law or not is irrelevant - the Bible does say "you shall not suffer a witch to live")

    What are you, a critical race theorist? They judge the past by the standards of the present too.
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-16-2021 at 04:53 PM.
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    I didn't justify murder or lynchings. I said that the executions in Salem were not murder and that lynchings were murder (though allowed because of corruption or intentional lack of oversight)
    Law in 1692 was different than in 2021. Acknowledging that does not mean supporting it.

    What are you, a critical race theorist? They judge the past by the standards of the present too.
    No, but it's leftists who say abortion isn't killing and you're saying hanging witches isn't murder. Are you are spokesperson for the far left?

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    No, but it's leftists who say abortion isn't killing and you're saying hanging witches isn't murder.
    Are you against the death penalty in general or just the legal penalty for witchcraft in Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1692?

    Either way, the executions were sanctioned by lawful statute, and so were not murder.
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-16-2021 at 05:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneOnly2 View Post
    I was just thinking about how over 70% of us Australian Catholics are pro-abortion
    You know what that tells me? 70% of Australian Catholics are not actually Catholic. They're pretending. As a Catholic I can tell you the sanctity of life is absolutely in the bible and should be valued. Further, the Pope and the Vatican have taken an official position against abortion. As a Catholic...you have to walk the walk and talk the talk. You don't get to pretend and then still use the title. I highly doubt this statistic is real in any way.

    Sounds like Australian Catholics might need a wake up call.

    Pope: Abortion is murder, the Church must be close and compassionate, not political - Vatican News

    Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Churchs Constant Teaching | USCCB

    Just a bonus one...

    Pope Francis: better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic | Pope Francis | The Guardian
    Last edited by Matt; 09-16-2021 at 05:51 PM.

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  10. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Authentic View Post
    Are you against the death penalty in general or just the legal penalty for witchcraft in Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1692?
    Either way, the executions were sanctioned by lawful statute, and so were not murder.
    Neither but I don't confuse legal and moral. Using a condom in Connecticut was illegal in 1960 and it's legal now but it was never immoral. Homosexuality was never illegal but at one time some homosexual acts were illegal. At one time an abortion was illegal and now abortions for convenience are legal even at the time of birth.


    You shift from legality from morality as effortlessly as Bill Clinton.
    Last edited by patrickt; 09-16-2021 at 06:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Neither but I don't confuse legal and moral. Using a condom in Connecticut was illegal in 1960 and it's legal now but it was never immoral. Homosexuality was never illegal but at one time some homosexual acts were illegal. At one time an abortion was illegal and now abortions for convenience are legal even at the time of birth.


    You shift from legality from morality as effortlessly as Bill Clinton.
    So, you are not against the legal sanction of death for witchcraft in MBC in 1692. Yet, you call it murder. Do you now support murder?

    You flip flop as effortlessly as John Kerry.
    Last edited by Authentic; 09-16-2021 at 06:43 PM.
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