State of the NHS (British Socialised Healthcare)

[kazenatsu]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/15/doctors-medication-80-hour-a-and-e-ordeal-nhs

The Left under the previous government overwhelmed the country with immigrants. Now the NHS (taxpayer-funded government-run healthcare system) is overwhelmed and being stretched apart at the seams.

Of course the Left just blames the Right for not giving it lots more money.

But when you add more people, things don't just magically continue along as they did in the past without it costing more money.
See, anything "free", people have a tendency to just take for granted and not think about.

If this gets any worse, the British will have a second-rate healthcare system like a Third World country.

One patient describes how while at a hospital stay, the hospital was ridiculously understaffed and overburdened with patients.

They left this guy in a corridor for hours, because there was no one to attend to him.

He says he got no sleep and no medication for 80 hours, and had to wait until the very end of that before doctors gave him any care.

This type of overcrowding is dangerous and could even lead to the risk of patients dying.

[Neo]

Not enough British nurses being trained, the NHS hire foreign nurses as a quick fix, thus! the cycle is ongoing.
From top to bottom it’s rife with underfunding and the cause of the workload the hospitals are expected to do due to mass immigration. More schools needed, social housing, higher community charge….the list is endless because of the open border Tony Blair signed up for.
Poland and other eastern euro countries sighed the same agreements for mass immigration but they limited the numbers and were not fined for it like the EU said they were going to do.
Just shows how politically weak and the agenda making Labour leadership was.

[Common]

I was left in the hallway of an emergency room for 2 days because they had no beds...

[Neo]

I had to wait 3 months for an operation to remove a broken bone in my left elbow. Bitterness? Fuck yeah!

[UKSmartypants]

This is why we moved to Spain. The WHO rates UK NHS as 17th , spains is 7th. The UK NHS has vast amount of money thrown at it, and it wastes a large amount of it. For a start theres more pen pushers that nursing staff. Plus they insist on treating anyone that turns up, no requirement to show eligibility or contribution. So you have a system now where it will take you two weeks to get a doctors appointment, if you are lucky. If you want an ambulance, dont be supriced if it takes 18 hours to get to you, and dont be surprised if you have to sit on a trolley in a corridor for another 18 hours before you get treated. And expect to wait 2 years for an op. Its an omnishambles, not only because they treat half the fuckign world for free, (people actually fly from Africa and India for free NHS treatment, then fly back home), but its also used by a hard core of Marxists staff as a political weapon to beat the Tories with. At the same time is a Sacred Cow, Thou Shalt Not Criticise The NHS

I figured we woud lprobably end up dying early if left in the hands of the NHS, and thats the Primary reasons we moved to Spain, the 7th best NHS in the world, and 3 of the 20 best hospitals on the planet, one of which I now live near.


The straw that broke the camels back for me was this - one day, im trying single handed to get a half tonne trailer down my sloping drive. I reverse the car up so the trailer is on the start of the downward slope. I unhoock the trailer, get round the end and try guiding it down. Its too heavy, i cant control it and it rolls down the hill, In desparation, to stop it smashing full tilt into the house, i swingit left, and it pins me up against a tree, breaking my right wrist. So now im completely pinned, and trapped and cant move, and cant puch the trailer off me. I manage to phone for an ambulance. They said it wasnt an emergency, and i had to make my own way to hospital, ignore the fact i couldnt move . I phoned the police, they said they wer every busy and might be able to get in about 2 hours. eventually I managed to contact a freind 20 miles away, who got to me in about 20 mins, and untrapped me and took me to A&E.

I concluded at that point, should i ever have a heart attack , i was gonna die. So we moved to Spain


Here, if you phone an ambulance , it turns up in 10 mins tops. I can get a doctors appointment next working day. If I rock up at A&E ill be in and out in 2 hours .And If i want an op, ill get it next month at the latest - and they spend less per head on their NHS. And heres another thing, if you do turn up at a Spanish A&E, you need to show a Spanish Health Card, or a Private Health Insurance Certificate, or a Credit Card, or they show you the door.

I am confident ill live longer in Spain than I would in UK.

[UKSmartypants]

Not enough British nurses being trained, the NHS hire foreign nurses as a quick fix, thus! the cycle is ongoing.
From top to bottom it’s rife with underfunding and the cause of the workload the hospitals are expected to do due to mass immigration. More schools needed, social housing, higher community charge….the list is endless because of the open border Tony Blair signed up for.
Poland and other eastern euro countries sighed the same agreements for mass immigration but they limited the numbers and were not fined for it like the EU said they were going to do.
Just shows how politically weak and the agenda making Labour leadership was.


Its not underfunded, huge amounts of money are thrown at it, vastly more thna in other countries.. The problem is waste. VAST amounts of money are wasted - on useless staff such as 'diversity managers' on more money than the PM, to huge amounts of overtime, to vast numbers of useless penpushers, to trying to treat the entire world for free. The Spanish NHS gets half the money per head the UK NHS gets , and it's orders of magnitude more efficient and better run.

[Old Tex]

Here's in the US medical care or rather the quality of medical care is situational. Some places have excellent medical care while others have very poor medical care. I got kind of lucky where I live. Many years ago they talked about closing our military base here. It accounted for a lot of the income in this area. So the city fathers looked for another industry to try to get to come here. The industry that was chosen was retirement. And with a large retirement age people came the health care industry. We've got something related to medical on almost every corner in our town.

My SIL who lives in MN, well to see anyone medical about anything is a 30 minute drive in the summer & an hour or more in the winter. And even then it's 2nd rate medical care.

[Conservative Libertarian]

I knew a Canadian that had to wait 2 years for carpel tunnel surgery. While waiting, she couldn't work.

Socialist medicine is great.

[Neo]

Its not underfunded, huge amounts of money are thrown at it, vastly more thna in other countries.. The problem is waste. VAST amounts of money are wasted - on useless staff such as 'diversity managers' on more money than the PM, to huge amounts of overtime, to vast numbers of useless penpushers, to trying to treat the entire world for free. The Spanish NHS gets half the money per head the UK NHS gets , and it's orders of magnitude more efficient and better run.
It’s underfunded……vast amounts of medical tourists come to the U.K. to get treated. They do not repay for the treatment they receive.
Underfunding is meant by merely our nurses get a pittance, overseas nurses are recruited to a fortune over here to what their own country pays.
underfunding…..millions of illegal immigrants the true number unknown…..yet the NHS treat them all.

Hospital waiting lists for operations…beds in wards….because of immigration….the NHS is swamped underfunded because the of the governments refusal to stop even now the trickle across the channel.

[dinosaur]

I don't have too much knowledge/experience with NHS. While Mrs dinosaur was in the UK, she fell and broke her wrist. NHS set her up with a cast and sent her home. It was pretty flimsy as casts go, but I guess a plastic sleeve is what you get nowadays. Anyhow, it worked, and I never saw a bill. On the flip side, when our UK friends visited us in Monterrey Mexico, and one of them tripped and fell and pushed a steel rebar thru their leg, NHS didn't help, so it was a good thing dinosaur had adequate available credit on the card to get proper care at a real university run hospital, rather than what Mexico has for socialized medicine.

Slightly off topic ... one of my Mexican employees had a father who had a heart attack. The extent of his care in the Mexican socialized medicine was an EKG to confirm he had a heart attack, blood thinners, and sent home with instructions to get his affairs in order, as he only had about 6 months. Pretty good predictors, however, in six months he was dead.

[Dubler9]

It has been progressively privatised - by stealth - for the past 15 years. It is NOT free. I have paid thousands of pounds into it via National Insurance (Tax deduction) from my pay.
I was ill for many weeks, a few years ago, so I walked into A & E - looked around to see if busy, it was not, and told the receptionist I was about to pass out. I got a full medical, blood test, and more. I had a virus.
I will not be denied service while I am still paying for that service.

[teeceetx]

Socialized medicine is a concept that can never work.

Waste, fraud, largess on the part of doctors and hospitals will quickly sink the system.

We see it in England, we see it in Canada, we see it in all countries with socialized medicine across the globe.

And now we will see it here.

[JMWinPR]

I have found that if the industry is important, the last thing you want is government control. Take our very own NASA, they started out well, putting a man on the moon. Then they thought the Shuttle was a good idea. Designed it and then managed to blow up two of em killing both crews. Our Social Security and Medicare systems are two more illustrations boondoggles. The only thing any government in both the know and unknown universe excels in, is creating discord out of nothing. Sort of like the Big Bang

[Neo]

People living outside the EUPeople who live outside the EU, including former UK residents, are not automatically entitled to free NHS care. They should make sure they are covered by personal health or travel insurance so that they can recover from their insurer any treatment costs that they are required to pay. They will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff, unless an exemption applies to them or the service they are accessing, or they are covered by a reciprocal healthcare agreement between the UK and their country.

[Big Wheeler]

My wife collapsed at home last year in Spain and i called the emergency number, because I couldn't lift her ,describing the circumstances to the operator.Within a few minutes 2 local council workers arrived and picked her up so I could put her in the car and take her to hospital myself.A good use of resources I'd say.
Regarding the UK's NHS I have good news.My grand daughter(20) is training to be a nurse.Every little helps.

[Oceander]

Socialized medicine is a concept that can never work.

Waste, fraud, largess on the part of doctors and hospitals will quickly sink the system.

We see it in England, we see it in Canada, we see it in all countries with socialized medicine across the globe.

And now we will see it here.
We already see it here. The U.S. system has been socialized/nationalized in all but name for decades now.

[El Guapo]

The fuckwit ideologs in charge here fired all the nurses who refused the jab. Then whined that hospitals are overwhelmed for lack of nurses. Then insisted jabbed nurses who were at home with covid report for work regardless.
Truth is stranger than fiction when you're dealing with fuckwits.

[Neo]

Good old NHS is paid for by National Insurance contributions. NI contributions went up last w££k

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Insurance

edited
apparently the increase is to cover social care.

[kazenatsu]

I had to wait 3 months for an operation to remove a broken bone in my left elbow. Bitterness? Fuck yeah!
In the US, this would never happen.

It might cost you an arm and a leg, and you might fall over dead from a heart attack after you see the medical bill, but you will not have to wait if you are a paying customer or have insurance.

The only patients who sometimes have to wait are those who get their healthcare from the Veterans Administration, which is much like the NHS.

[Moonie]

.
I you have been in the emergency ward of the NHS only once, but they are wonderful.

My only affidavit against the NHS is that the Army hospitals are better.
.

[Dan40]

There is an international organization funded by almost ALL governments that compiles statistics on just about everything. When I remember its name/initials, I will post it. Its stats on health care states that the USA fee for service healthcare takes a lesser percentage of household incomes than so called free govt healthcare. We spend more dollars but a smaller % of our incomes. And better care!

[Neo]

In the US, this would never happen.

It might cost you an arm and a leg, and you might fall over dead from a heart attack after you see the medical bill, but you will not have to wait if you are a paying customer or have insurance.

The only patients who sometimes have to wait are those who get their healthcare from the Veterans Administration, which is much like the NHS.
There is no way out of paying National Insurance.

15.05%




Employer Class 1 National Insurance rates
Employers pay Class 1 NICs of 15.05% on all earnings above the secondary threshold for almost all employees.

Subbies who work for themselves contribute a smaller percentage I believe.


Speaking to some Americans “why don’t you have medical insurance too?”

How much is private healthcare in the UK?



According to ActiveQuote, the average price for UK private health insurance is £1,155 a year (correct as of September 2021). As with many insurance policies, the cost of private medical insurance can vary from person to person, so it's not easy to generalise how much it would cost.11 Nov 2021

[UKSmartypants]

People living outside the EU

People who live outside the EU, including former UK residents, are not automatically entitled to free NHS care. They should make sure they are covered by personal health or travel insurance so that they can recover from their insurer any treatment costs that they are required to pay. They will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff, unless an exemption applies to them or the service they are accessing, or they are covered by a reciprocal healthcare agreement between the UK and their country.

In Theory the above is


In Practice
The marxist NHS staff treat anyone who walks in the door, never ask for proof of entitlement, and then let the person leave without any form od payment being set up. The NHS does not pursue overseas debtors. Eg last year some nigerian women arrived nUK, pregnant, and needing a complex caesarean, it was doen free, and then she got back on the plane and went home with her babies - who as a result also now have dual nigerian britsh citizenship, so they will be back in 18 years to scrounge off us.. Total cost to the NHS was around £20,000, money that will never be recovered. Thats where a vast chunk of NHS money goes.

according the the UK Govt website

Normal use: The estimated cost of normal use of the NHS—by foreign visitors who've ended up being treated while in England—is £1.8 billion a year (including a small number of European visitors treated in the rest of the UK). This includes the cost of treating them in A&E, though visitors aren't currently charged for this, and the cost of treating some foreigners resident in England who currently don't incur charges.

Only around £500 million per year is estimated to be recoverable or chargeable according to the Department for Health. In reality only £100 million was recovered in 2013/14.

Deliberate use: This is the estimated cost of treating those travelling to England deliberately for free treatment, or those who take advantage of the health system while here (which means using it more intensively than they might have done otherwise). This group is particularly difficult to quantify as we don't really know who most of them are. It's thought they could cost the NHS somewhere between £110 million and £280 million a year, on top of the £1.8 billion a year.

[UKSmartypants]

The fuckwit ideologs in charge here fired all the nurses who refused the jab. Then whined that hospitals are overwhelmed for lack of nurses. Then insisted jabbed nurses who were at home with covid report for work regardless.
Truth is stranger than fiction when you're dealing with fuckwits.
The Uk Govt threatened to sack all unvaccinated nurses and doctors. It went right up to the line, and two days before 60,000 nursing staff were about to be sacked the Government backed down, saying the R rate had dropped so it didnt matter any more.

[Robert]

This is why we moved to Spain. The WHO rates UK NHS as 17th , spains is 7th. The UK NHS has vast amount of money thrown at it, and it wastes a large amount of it. For a start theres more pen pushers that nursing staff. Plus they insist on treating anyone that turns up, no requirement to show eligibility or contribution. So you have a system now where it will take you two weeks to get a doctors appointment, if you are lucky. If you want an ambulance, dont be supriced if it takes 18 hours to get to you, and dont be surprised if you have to sit on a trolley in a corridor for another 18 hours before you get treated. And expect to wait 2 years for an op. Its an omnishambles, not only because they treat half the fuckign world for free, (people actually fly from Africa and India for free NHS treatment, then fly back home), but its also used by a hard core of Marxists staff as a political weapon to beat the Tories with. At the same time is a Sacred Cow, Thou Shalt Not Criticise The NHS

I figured we woud lprobably end up dying early if left in the hands of the NHS, and thats the Primary reasons we moved to Spain, the 7th best NHS in the world, and 3 of the 20 best hospitals on the planet, one of which I now live near.


The straw that broke the camels back for me was this - one day, im trying single handed to get a half tonne trailer down my sloping drive. I reverse the car up so the trailer is on the start of the downward slope. I unhoock the trailer, get round the end and try guiding it down. Its too heavy, i cant control it and it rolls down the hill, In desparation, to stop it smashing full tilt into the house, i swingit left, and it pins me up against a tree, breaking my right wrist. So now im completely pinned, and trapped and cant move, and cant puch the trailer off me. I manage to phone for an ambulance. They said it wasnt an emergency, and i had to make my own way to hospital, ignore the fact i couldnt move . I phoned the police, they said they wer every busy and might be able to get in about 2 hours. eventually I managed to contact a freind 20 miles away, who got to me in about 20 mins, and untrapped me and took me to A&E.

I concluded at that point, should i ever have a heart attack , i was gonna die. So we moved to Spain


Here, if you phone an ambulance , it turns up in 10 mins tops. I can get a doctors appointment next working day. If I rock up at A&E ill be in and out in 2 hours .And If i want an op, ill get it next month at the latest - and they spend less per head on their NHS. And heres another thing, if you do turn up at a Spanish A&E, you need to show a Spanish Health Card, or a Private Health Insurance Certificate, or a Credit Card, or they show you the door.

I am confident ill live longer in Spain than I would in UK.

Here in the USA, I can get to a hospital in 15 minutes and be treated in a short time.

[mr claws]

I have a question for our members who live under the Canadian and UK health care system... if you are, shall we say, a person of "affluent" means (as in $$$$) do you go to the head of the line, have your surgeries timely done, in short, does money buy you better care (as it does ALL things in THIS world)? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. :dontknow:

[Neo]

I have a question for our members who live under the Canadian and UK health care system... if you are, shall we say, a person of "affluent" means (as in $$$$) do you go to the head of the line, have your surgeries timely done, in short, does money buy you better care (as it does ALL things in THIS world)? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. :dontknow:

BUPA medical insurance will wheel you in before NHS patients. For a basic plan I’ve been informed it’s £1,600 per year.

Edited.
By my reckoning £1,600 per year is £32 per week

[UKSmartypants]

BUPA medical insurance will wheel you in before NHS patients. For a basic plan I’ve been informed it’s £1,600 per year.

Edited.
By my reckoning £1,600 per year is £32 per week


In spain expats nopt entitled to free Spanish care can join a Spanish basic scheme called El Convenio, which I believe is about £60 a month, or you go for proper full private health cover which is about £160 a month

[mr claws]

Thanks to both Neo and UKSmartypants for replying. :thumbsup20:

[UKSmartypants]

From twitter


@apsmunro · 4h

The NHS is floundering, due to a combination of demand, Covid procedural burden, staff absence and burnout

[El Guapo]

I have a question for our members who live under the Canadian and UK health care system... if you are, shall we say, a person of "affluent" means (as in $$$$) do you go to the head of the line, have your surgeries timely done, in short, does money buy you better care (as it does ALL things in THIS world)? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. :dontknow:

No. People who have the money travel to the US to get treatment.