# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Cop Shoots, Kills Man

## Libertarian ForOur Future

*Cop Shoots, Kills Man, After Crashing Car, Running to Friends House, and Pulls Knife on Himself (Not the cop)* **Warning, Video is graphic and shows cop shooting & killing man, you've been warned**




So, the #1 question I have to ask is, why was the gun drawn in the first place? #2, wouldn't a taser have worked in that situation?

Now I'm sure someone is going to say the cop was in the right, but shooting the man 5 times is right? In yet, these are the individuals that we, as citizens, are meant to call in time of need? No thanks, I'll call them after my house is clear & secure.

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## Pooltablerepairman

From what was visible in the video, it looked like a righteous shoot. The subject was armed with a knife. He refused to comply with orders to put his weapon down. He (and this is critical) ADVANCED ON THE OFFICER while armed with the knife, was warned that he would be shot if he refused to put the knife down. He CONTINUED TO ADVANCE ON THE OFFICER and the cop shot him.

If I was on the shooting review board and had to make a determination on the evidence contained in the video, I would have to say the use of deadly force was authorized and appropriate.

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## Pooltablerepairman

> *Cop Shoots, Kills Man, After Crashing Car, Running to Friends House, and Pulls Knife on Himself (Not the cop)*
> 
> So, the #1 question I have to ask is, why was the gun drawn in the first place? #2, wouldn't a taser have worked in that situation?


I don't know if the cop was even equipped with a Taser, but it does not really matter. A man with a knife is not the same as a belligerent drunk coming after with his fists. The general guideline is that a subject armed with a knife who assumes a threatening posture and is within a range of 21 feet warrants the use of deadly force. the use of a Taser against a subject armed with a knife would not have been appropriate.




> Now I'm sure someone is going to say the cop was in the right, but shooting the man 5 times is right? In yet, these are the individuals that we, as citizens, are meant to call in time of need? No thanks, I'll call them after my house is clear & secure.


You shoot until the subject is no longer a threat. Would you feel better if he only shot him once? That probably would not have stopped him, which is why cops are trained to fire in controlled pairs. Bullets are not magic pellets that make the bad guy stop as soon as one if fired. The most effective antipersonnel handgun round (highest ratio of one hit stops) is a .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollow point fired from a 4 inch barrel. Even it only has a 62% one hit stop ratio. That why the old saying "_If he is worth shooting once, he is worth shooting twice_" originated. It has nothing to do with being flippant about shooting another human being. It addresses the reality that shooting someone once is generally not going to be sufficient to neutralize a threat.

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## Commissioner

> From what was visible in the video, it looked like a righteous shoot. The subject was armed with a knife. He refused to comply with orders to put his weapon down. He (and this is critical) ADVANCED ON THE OFFICER while armed with the knife, was warned that he would be shot if he refused to put the knife down. He CONTINUED TO ADVANCE ON THE OFFICER and the cop shot him.
> 
> If I was on the shooting review board and had to make a determination on the evidence contained in the video, I would have to say the use of deadly force was authorized and appropriate.


I wouldn't make that determination.   There was no reason for this to go down this way.   Here's a suggestion, this obviouslyt very frightened little punk--and I'm talking about the cop here--could have done nothing until someone better suited showed up on the site.  What, he felt he had to act because he was worried the kid was going to kill himself? and it would be better if the killing was done by a trained law enforcement professional like himself?  There was simply no need to rush this situation to any conclusion yet alone to how it actually ended.

About the only thing that is obvious is that the shooter is in no way qualified for police work.  He obviously panicked in a situation he didn't need to.  As for whether he should be charged with murder or manslaughter, I really am not sure..  This cop was put into a position he was completely unqualified to be in. Listen to the terror in his voice after the shooting, where he suddenly recognizes he fucked up royally.   It speaks volumes about this guy's fitness for a very high-stress job.  The people who are most at fault are the ones who gave this junior Kojack a job in law enforcement.

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Muninn (01-21-2014),sotmfs (01-19-2014)

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

I acknowledge that the cops these days have been using their powers in ways that can be troubling and overtly political sometimes, and that DOES have to be reeled in, but the libertarian disease is SO anti-law-enforcement and anarchic that even if somebody comes at them with a KNIFE and they end up shooting him that action is absurdly called into question. Come on now! :Geez: 

This approach to law enforcement goes back to the hippie attitude to 'pigs' in the 60s, and further cements my thesis that Libertarianism is a branch of the anarchist, counter-culture left, and NOT part of the conservative tradition.

Libertarianism is a cancer on the right, and needs to be cast out of the conservative camp.

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Canadianeye (01-19-2014)

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## Matalese

> I wouldn't make that determination.   There was no reason for this to go down this way.   Here's a suggestion, this obviouslyt very frightened little punk--and I'm talking about the cop here--could have done nothing until someone better suited showed up on the site.  What, he felt he had to act because he was worried the kid was going to kill himself? and it would be better if the killing was done by a trained law enforcement professional like himself?  There was simply no need to rush this situation to any conclusion yet alone to how it actually ended.
> 
> About the only thing that is obvious is that the shooter is in no way qualified for police work.  He obviously panicked in a situation he didn't need to.  As for whether he should be charged with murder or manslaughter, I really am not sure..  This cop was put into a position he was completely unqualified to be in. Listen to the terror in his voice after the shooting, where he suddenly recognizes he fucked up royally.   It speaks volumes about this guy's fitness for a very high-stress job.  The people who are most at fault are the ones who gave this junior Kojack a job in law enforcement.



I'm curious now! What certification or educational background or experience do you have to make these determinations?

have you ever been in law enforcement? And, for that matter have you ever been threatened by a knife wielding person advancing on you?

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## Pooltablerepairman

> I wouldn't make that determination.


You would be wrong.




> There was no reason for this to go down this way.   Here's a suggestion, this obviouslyt very frightened little punk--and I'm talking about the cop here--could have done nothing until someone better suited showed up on the site.  What, he felt he had to act because he was worried the kid was going to kill himself? and it would be better if the killing was done by a trained law enforcement professional like himself?  There was simply no need to rush this situation to any conclusion yet alone to how it actually ended.
> 
> About the only thing that is obvious is that the shooter is in no way qualified for police work.  He obviously panicked in a situation he didn't need to.  As for whether he should be charged with murder or manslaughter, I really am not sure..  This cop was put into a position he was completely unqualified to be in. Listen to the terror in his voice after the shooting, where he suddenly recognizes he fucked up royally.   It speaks volumes about this guy's fitness for a very high-stress job.  The people who are most at fault are the ones who gave this junior Kojack a job in law enforcement.


Yeah, if you say so.

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## Matalese

I bet you guys agree with giving the police rubber bullets huh?

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

Pooltablerepairman is correct in his analysis here, and he sounds like he has some kind of background in law enforcement in some way, maybe even a military background.

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## Pooltablerepairman

> Pooltablerepairman is correct in his analysis here, and he sounds like he has some kind of background in law enforcement in some way, maybe even a military background.



Both, and I have on more than one occasion, faced an armed subject with a knife.

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## Katzndogz

Years ago when the standards were just starting to be lowered for police departments, a judge I respected as very knowledgeable said that the lowered standards would result in more police shootings and more officers frightened into shooting.   The smaller and slighter police of today are easily intimidated by larger and stronger offenders.  They know that they aren't big enough or strong enough to disarm a knife wielding man, or even some knife wielding women.

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

> Both, and I have on more than one occasion, faced an armed subject with a knife.


I've always fancied myself a very keen OBSERVER of human character! :Cool20:

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## Pooltablerepairman

> Years ago when the standards were just starting to be lowered for police departments, a judge I respected as very knowledgeable said that the lowered standards would result in more police shootings and more officers frightened into shooting.   The smaller and slighter police of today are easily intimidated by larger and stronger offenders.  They know that they aren't big enough or strong enough to disarm a knife wielding man, or even some knife wielding women.


Only someone who has a death wish or absolutely no alternative would try a naked harm disarm of a subject armed with a knife.

Size is irrelevant. Give a little guy a knife and he can take out the biggest, baddest man on the planet in a matter of seconds.

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## Pooltablerepairman

> I've always fancied myself a very keen OBSERVER of human character!


Indeed.

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## Matalese

I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?

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Perianne (01-19-2014)

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## Pooltablerepairman

> I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?


Interesting question.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I don't know if the cop was even equipped with a Taser, but it does not really matter. A man with a knife is not the same as a belligerent drunk coming after with his fists. The general guideline is that a subject armed with a knife who assumes a threatening posture and is within a range of 21 feet warrants the use of deadly force. the use of a Taser against a subject armed with a knife would not have been appropriate.


How would a taser not been appropriate but a gun is? This logic makes zero sense to me. What about the individual who was special needs, and got shot by a police officer? Does a taser or something else not warrant such a situation?

While I don't know the whole story, the point being is the individual was in a state of shock. In which, after the car accident, the individual decided to run to a friends house, and threaten to take his "OWN" life with a knife. Clearly the individual isn't the right frame of mind, that doesn't give the officer authority to take the suspect out like that. Before he was even within the vicinity of the individual, the weapon was already drawn. To me, the cop was already thinking deadly force before trying to talk some sense into the individual.




> You shoot until the subject is no longer a threat. Would you feel better if he only shot him once? That probably would not have stopped him, which is why cops are trained to fire in controlled pairs. Bullets are not magic pellets that make the bad guy stop as soon as one if fired. The most effective antipersonnel handgun round (highest ratio of one hit stops) is a .357 Magnum 125 grain jacketed hollow point fired from a 4 inch barrel. Even it only has a 62% one hit stop ratio. That why the old saying "_If he is worth shooting once, he is worth shooting twice_" originated. It has nothing to do with being flippant about shooting another human being. It addresses the reality that shooting someone once is generally not going to be sufficient to neutralize a threat.


I would've been happy if the cop didn't shoot the individual at all. Taser, mace, or any other non-lethal object would've done the job just as well. I don't care if the officer came in with a .308 rifle, the cause and effect are still the same. In yet, there is a dead individual, over an f'n car crash. Allow me to repeat that, there is someone dead because of a car crash.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I acknowledge that the cops these days have been using their powers in ways that can be troubling and overtly political sometimes, and that DOES have to be reeled in, but the libertarian disease is SO anti-law-enforcement and anarchic that even if somebody comes at them with a KNIFE and they end up shooting him that action is absurdly called into question. Come on now!
> 
> This approach to law enforcement goes back to the hippie attitude to 'pigs' in the 60s, and further cements my thesis that Libertarianism is a branch of the anarchist, counter-culture left, and NOT part of the conservative tradition.
> 
> Libertarianism is a cancer on the right, and needs to be cast out of the conservative camp.


Here's the difference, if I had shot the individual, because they were in my house, coming at me with a knife, the whole world would be analyzing every aspect of the situation to see why did I have a gun in the first place. If it's a police officer, or someone gives a badge to, it's warranted in such a situation. See the difference?

The disease isn't libertarians, it's to the conformers who believe this type of thing is completely warranted, when in fact it's not. There are thousands of ways to handle this situation, the officer went straight for the aggressive way first, without caring about the other individual. If that person took his life with the knife, so be it, that's THEIR DECISION. Now, this individual might've been in a psychic ward, or a hospital, getting treatment, but now he's 6 feet deep.

We, as libertarians, are far from a disease. If you're so ob*serv*ant, you would've thought about that. Then again, I do see you took off the Thomas Sowell quote. How predictable.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?





> Interesting question.


Not really an interesting question. People post these things up (myself included) because people have gotten so accustomed to police shooting someone, that it's a normalized situation. Folks assume cops had good causes to do it, and just let it be as that. Like police are some higher deity that we, as society, must bow down to and respect. Since they have the badges, all citizens must respect their authority.

Police officers should be held accountable, on every aspect of the things they do. If everyday citizens are scrutinized because of guns, then why not do the same for officers? There's no outrage when cops shoot everyday individuals, but this country will get upset if a normal citizen uses one. Why is that? Where's the outrage in that?

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## Perianne

> The smaller and slighter police of today are easily intimidated by larger and stronger offenders.  *They know that they aren't big enough or strong enough to disarm a knife wielding man, or even some knife wielding women.*


They shouldn't have to.  If a policeman tells you to drop the knife then you drop the knife.  Seems simple enough to me.

If'n Tyrone comes into my home with a knife, I can shoot his butt.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> They shouldn't have to.  If a policeman tells you to drop the knife then you drop the knife.  Seems simple enough to me.
> 
> If'n Tyrone comes into my home with a knife, I can shoot his butt.


Yes, the individual should've dropped the knife, but is a gun warranted in this situation? There are several other tools that could've been used to disarm said individual. Rather than his family having to bury him, they could've just visited him in a hospital or something. Now, they're laying roses on his head stone versus his bed side.

If anyone came across your threshold, you would be scrutinized from here to until the end of the trial. In yet, you would be a nut job for using a gun. Case in point, Maryland man shot an individual, who busted into the door. His charge? He went and got his gun before he decided to call 911. Sound familiar?




> Matthew Pinkerton (left) was arrested in Maryland for 2nd degree murder for killing a man during a home invasion.
> "Why didn't you call 911?" This is the only argument the State of *Maryland* has against *Matthew Pinkerton*. Matt is a Technical Sergeant in the U.S. Air Force. He shot and killed a home intruder by the name of *Kendall Green*, just before 2 a.m. on September 15, 2013 in the town of Glen Burnie, Maryland.
> 
> As reported by the Capital Gazette:
> 
> "Pinkerton shot Green once in the chest from 10 to 15 feet away, but Green continued to advance toward him, his wife Jessica and two friends who were at the house, [Peter] O'Neill (Pinkerton's attorney) said. That's when Pinkerton shot him again. He died at the scene."
> 
> The state has charged Matthew Pinkerton with 2nd Degree Murder. Their sole basis for this charge is that he should have called 911. There is no nationwide average response time for a 911 call, however unless they are faster than 1,310 ft/s, there really is no point in calling 911 in the case of a hostile home invasion. While the Assistant State's Attorney, Glen Neubauer, maintains that he should have called 911, and that even the act of grabbing the gun in the first place is "bizarre behavior in itself," Pinkerton's lawyer, Peter O'Neill, said it best when he acknowledged that, "By the time 911 is called, he's dead."
> http://misguidedchildren.com/justice...th-murder/6028

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## Perianne

> If anyone came across your threshold, you would be scrutinized from here to until the end of the trial. In yet, you would be a nut job for using a gun. Case in point, Maryland man shot an individual, who busted into the door. His charge? He went and got his gun before he decided to call 911. Sound familiar?


This is Kaintucky, but I see your point.

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## JustPassinThru

Instead of piling on cops for overreacting - which seems to be the common theme here - how about we recognize that police are limited, not in what they can do to stop assailants, but in what they should be CALLED to do?  Instead of using them as marriage counselors and referees, seat-belt-use monitors, controllers of who may avail themselves of the Second Amendment...redefine the job that they are to enforce laws where personal safety and property are at risk?

I'm not in favor of legalizing drugs, but zero-tolerance is doing more to turn the nation's police into a Gestapo than anything.  At the very least, put drug offenses back into the same categories as ordinary non-violent offenses.  LIMIT the NUMBER of these potentially-violent confrontations.

And then, within that, UNLEASH the police.  

Seriously.  When a person raises a knife to a police officer, he's not teaching whittling.  He means injuries.  Quit fooling around with rubber bullets and Tasars; if a person resists lawful authority...do what historically, cops have always been directed to do.

Shoot him.  Blow him away.  GET THE MESSAGE OUT - that if you flee the cops, YOU CAN DIE.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Shoot him.  Blow him away.  GET THE MESSAGE OUT - that if you flee the cops, YOU CAN DIE.


I believe they've already done just that. In yet, this is what we, as a society, want the message to be? That if a cop raises a gun to you, for whatever reason, you should conform to them and don't resist? Look, I'm not in favor of any kind of revolt (In which, I'm more of a legislative person), but I'm definitely not one to sit back and say 'Yup, it's a cop, better STFU and let them do what they please'. It's that same mentality that got a guy in New Mexico anally searched for hours, even had medical procedures done to him.

Some might say this is an extreme case, but how far are individuals meant to just stop resisting and do whatever the cop wants you to do? When are these individuals going to be held accountable for their own actions? Why is that every day American citizens are scrutinized for the same type of actions these individuals do? That's the whole point of this thread. I'm not here to bash cops, I think their job sucks, and have a tough job but, at the end of the day, they're no more powerful, in the societal hierarchy, than anyone else.

Just because they have a badge, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing either.

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

If a cop commits a crime, he should go to prison, just like anyone else.

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## JustPassinThru

> I believe they've already done just that. In yet, this is what we, as a society, want the message to be? That if a cop raises a gun to you, for whatever reason, you should conform to them and don't resist? Look, I'm not in favor of any kind of revolt (In which, I'm more of a legislative person), but I'm definitely not one to sit back and say 'Yup, it's a cop, better STFU and let them do what they please'. It's that same mentality that got a guy in New Mexico anally searched for hours, even had medical procedures done to him.
> 
> Some might say this is an extreme case, but how far are individuals meant to just stop resisting and do whatever the cop wants you to do? When are these individuals going to be held accountable for their own actions? Why is that every day American citizens are scrutinized for the same type of actions these individuals do? That's the whole point of this thread. I'm not here to bash cops, I think their job sucks, and have a tough job but, at the end of the day, they're no more powerful, in the societal hierarchy, than anyone else.
> 
> Just because they have a badge, doesn't necessarily mean they know what they're doing either.


They haven't done that.  The opposite message is out:  The cops won't DARE shoot!  And if they do, they'll be fired and jailed - and the perp sues and GETS RICH.

That's what all this is about - to create the legal pressure to put MORE obstacles in cops' way.

Meantime the farcical war on drugs both develops and encourages jackboot behavior - and serves to recruit people who want to be jackbooted Gestapo.

No, the opposite message is being sent.  Police should not be used as social engineering tools, punishing mothers who spank their toddlers.  They should ONLY be used at times when sudden intervention is critical, in terms of life or significant property loss.

Purse-snatching?  Yes.

Gay-taunting?  NO.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> If a cop commits a crime, he should go to prison, just like anyone else.


It's not always the case. In most instances, the cop is just given a free pass because of the badge. There's never anything about how what they did is wrong or something should've been handled differently. It's simply they're the law and we, as a society, must obey their commands.

In yet, if an every day citizen attempts to do something similar, they are the nut jobs and should be hung by their feet.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> They haven't done that.  The opposite message is out:  The cops won't DARE shoot!  And if they do, they'll be fired and jailed - and the perp sues and GETS RICH.
> 
> That's what all this is about - to create the legal pressure to put MORE obstacles in cops' way.
> 
> Meantime the farcical war on drugs both develops and encourages jackboot behavior - and serves to recruit people who want to be jackbooted Gestapo.
> 
> No, the opposite message is being sent.  Police should not be used as social engineering tools, punishing mothers who spank their toddlers.  They should ONLY be used at times when sudden intervention is critical, in terms of life or significant property loss.
> 
> Purse-snatching?  Yes.
> ...


Maybe where you live, this is the message. Where I live, that's not such the message. The war on drugs is a big farce. If folks are non-violent and only doing the drugs on their own dime, own time, and own life, there is no need to have cops kicking in doors, anally searching individuals for drugs. How much do you think that costs society, let alone tax payers?

In the other article I pointed out (Maryland man arrested because he didn't call 911 first), why was the cops arresting the man who handled the situation just fine? What about if the cops picked the wrong house and shooting & killing the military veteran's dog (http://www.military.com/video/law-en...40281838001/)?

All of these will be subject to a 'Oops, we f'd up', but nothing is ever done. Maybe someone suspended, but they'll still be paid, maybe they won't be paid, but they'll be allowed back onto the force afterwards. Then, if a normal citizen does something like this, they're thrown into jail and have their entire life ruined because that stain will remain on their record.

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## Matalese

> How would a taser not been appropriate but a gun is? This logic makes zero sense to me. What about the individual who was special needs, and got shot by a police officer? Does a taser or something else not warrant such a situation?
> 
> While I don't know the whole story, the point being is the individual was in a state of shock. In which, after the car accident, the individual decided to run to a friends house, and threaten to take his "OWN" life with a knife. Clearly the individual isn't the right frame of mind, that doesn't give the officer authority to take the suspect out like that. Before he was even within the vicinity of the individual, the weapon was already drawn. To me, the cop was already thinking deadly force before trying to talk some sense into the individual.
> 
> 
> I would've been happy if the cop didn't shoot the individual at all. Taser, mace, or any other non-lethal object would've done the job just as well. I don't care if the officer came in with a .308 rifle, the cause and effect are still the same. In yet, there is a dead individual, over an f'n car crash. Allow me to repeat that, there is someone dead because of a car crash.




Easily avoidable. Don't draw a knife and advance on a policeman, especially when he's yelling at you to stop.

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JustPassinThru (01-19-2014),Perianne (01-19-2014)

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## Matalese

> Not really an interesting question. People post these things up (myself included) because people have gotten so accustomed to police shooting someone, that it's a normalized situation. Folks assume cops had good causes to do it, and just let it be as that. Like police are some higher deity that we, as society, must bow down to and respect. Since they have the badges, all citizens must respect their authority.
> 
> Police officers should be held accountable, on every aspect of the things they do. If everyday citizens are scrutinized because of guns, then why not do the same for officers? There's no outrage when cops shoot everyday individuals, but this country will get upset if a normal citizen uses one. Why is that? Where's the outrage in that?





So are you or are you not outraged when a police officer is shot by a bad guy? Got any threads on that subject? I bet you don't.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Easily avoidable. Don't draw a knife and advance on a policeman, especially when he's yelling at you to stop.


Your opinion on how this could be easily avoidable is different than mine. Firstly, the individual was in his own friends house with a knife. The cop entered the house, with the gun drawn. This isn't out in some public area, and the individual began approaching the officer. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> So are you or are you not outraged when a police officer is shot by a bad guy? Got any threads on that subject? I bet you don't.


Depends on various things. What was the situation, and define 'bad guy'. Your definition of 'bad guy' might not be what I determine it to be. Case in point, you're all trumping for the officer, so I would imagine you'd consider the victim a 'bad guy'. Thus, my opinion would differ from yours.

However, I'm willing to play ball. Have I started a thread showing such a case? Nope, no need to because there are folks, like you, who will champion it for me. I'm going to play devils advocate and show the other side. Thus, there will always be more discussion if I go this route.

For instance, this 72 year old man pulled out a rifle, on an officer, during a normal traffic stop, shot and killed him (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=326271a274). This absolutely warrants shooting the 72 year old. Now then, you're going to [probably] say, 'Well why does this instance warrant shooting someone and your original article not'? Simple, a knife won't do nearly as much damage, at a distance, then say a rifle will. Thus, a taser or mace would drastically alter this engagement. Not only that, once he looked around the corner, he could've had the taser and/or mace already drawn. As soon as the individual advanced, he could've used either or both, subdued the individual, and took him into custody.

Instead, he's dead from gun shot wounds. In the other case, the officer is dead. In both cases, neither one of the victims should've died. Which article is more compelling to talk about, to get a valid conversation going? Once you come to the same conclusion as I have, then you'll see why I don't post said articles, as you would like.

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## Matalese

> Depends on various things. What was the situation, and define 'bad guy'. Your definition of 'bad guy' might not be what I determine it to be. Case in point, you're all trumping for the officer, so I would imagine you'd consider the victim a 'bad guy'. Thus, my opinion would differ from yours.
> 
> However, I'm willing to play ball. Have I started a thread showing such a case? Nope, no need to because there are folks, like you, who will champion it for me. I'm going to play devils advocate and show the other side. Thus, there will always be more discussion if I go this route.
> 
> For instance, this 72 year old man pulled out a rifle, on an officer, during a normal traffic stop, shot and killed him (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=326271a274). This absolutely warrants shooting the 72 year old. Now then, you're going to [probably] say, 'Well why does this instance warrant shooting someone and your original article not'? Simple, a knife won't do nearly as much damage, at a distance, then say a rifle will. Thus, a taser or mace would drastically alter this engagement. Not only that, once he looked around the corner, he could've had the taser and/or mace already drawn. As soon as the individual advanced, he could've used either or both, subdued the individual, and took him into custody.
> 
> Instead, he's dead from gun shot wounds. In the other case, the officer is dead. In both cases, neither one of the victims should've died. Which article is more compelling to talk about, to get a valid conversation going? Once you come to the same conclusion as I have, then you'll see why I don't post said articles, as you would like.




Well,really you sound like the typical armchair quarterback. I say since you know more than the police do you should put you ass on the line and do your own police work. It's just so damn easy to spout when it's not your life on the line, when it's not your wife who may be a widow because some asshole stabbed you to death. After all, what's one dead cop more or less?

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## Matalese

I meandered over to copblock.org. it's anti cop top to bottom. Why am I not surprised? So my above post is dead on accurate.

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## Roadmaster

> I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?


 Well only 2 died in SC last year due to heart attacks and in NC only one in the line of duty.

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## Roadmaster

> *Cop Shoots, Kills Man, After Crashing Car, Running to Friends House, and Pulls Knife on Himself (Not the cop)* **Warning, Video is graphic and shows cop shooting & killing man, you've been warned**
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the #1 question I have to ask is, why was the gun drawn in the first place? #2, wouldn't a taser have worked in that situation?
> 
> Now I'm sure someone is going to say the cop was in the right, but shooting the man 5 times is right? In yet, these are the individuals that we, as citizens, are meant to call in time of need? No thanks, I'll call them after my house is clear & secure.


I am going to have to agree with the cop this time. If the young man had not came towards him then I would think different. Don't like how many times he shot tho.

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## Irascible Crusader

The cop haters are at it again, and their idiocy is on display for all to see.  Any time a cop is called upon to shoot or take aggressive action, they're never right in the eyes of these morons.  The video producer and the OP author both made mischaracterizations about the rules of engagement, assuming that when somebody has a knife the cop is supposed to draw a taser.  Yeah I saw the video, and pooltablerepairman is correct.  The guy committed suicide-by-cop by giving the cop no choice but to fire his weapon.

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DonGlock26 (01-21-2014)

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## Irascible Crusader

> I am going to have to agree with the cop this time. If the young man had not came towards him then I would think different. Don't like how many times he shot tho.


If you were in that situation you would have used that many rounds or more.  When people are truly in fear of mortal danger, they tend to empty the clip to neutralize the threat.

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## Roadmaster

I understand why he had a gun out because he couldn't see the guy inside and didn't know if he was armed. Yes police have to protect themselves too. If I see them do something wrong I will say it.

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## Roadmaster

> If you were in that situation you would have used that many rounds or more.  When people are truly in fear of mortal danger, they tend to empty the clip to neutralize the threat.


 No I have never been that scared. I don't understand that type of behavior. Even killing a bobcat I only struck twice with the knife.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Well,really you sound like the typical armchair quarterback. I say since you know more than the police do you should put you ass on the line and do your own police work. It's just so damn easy to spout when it's not your life on the line, when it's not your wife who may be a widow because some asshole stabbed you to death. After all, what's one dead cop more or less?


Do you not even read what I just wrote? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have gone onto your rant. The article I put, on the quote you quoted me on, I talked about how the officer shouldn't have died but, instead, should've shot the 72 year old.

I'm assuming you missed that in your blind rage. I'll let you re-read it my quote and then we can continue this discussion.

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I am going to have to agree with the cop this time. If the young man had not came towards him then I would think different. Don't like how many times he shot tho.


Taser and mace works equally as good in this situation. The cop already had the knife drawn, before even entering the house. Force was already running through the cops head. That's not the type of cop you want coming to a house for a call.

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> The cop haters are at it again, and their idiocy is on display for all to see.  Any time a cop is called upon to shoot or take aggressive action, they're never right in the eyes of these morons.  The video producer and the OP author both made mischaracterizations about the rules of engagement, assuming that when somebody has a knife the cop is supposed to draw a taser.  Yeah I saw the video, and pooltablerepairman is correct.  The guy committed suicide-by-cop by giving the cop no choice but to fire his weapon.


Not cop haters, anti-hot heads is more like it. Secondly, the video producer was the officer himself, the assumptions were his own. Thirdly, what rules of engagement is mischaracterized? That the officer should automatically walk in with the gun drawn and not a taser or mace? The man was no threat until the officer decided to walk around the corner, point a gun in the guys face, and decided to use authoritative force.

The cop gave the individual no choice. It was either die by the sword or by the gun, not the other way around.

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

I hope libertarians understand some day that the police are more often the protector and guardian of their rights than a threat to them. 

When you achieve libertarian anarchy, you relpace one possible oppressor [the government] with many thousands of potential oppressors [anyone stronger and more ruthless than you].

You doubt me? Ever hear of the extreme Libertarian/anarchist organization called 'Freemen-on-the-Land'?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09...ntal-property/

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Perianne (01-19-2014)

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I hope libertarians understand some day that the police are more often the protector and guardian of their rights than a threat to them. 
> 
> When you achieve libertarian anarchy, you relpace one possible oppressor [the government] with many thousands of potential oppressors [anyone stronger and more ruthless than you].
> 
> You doubt me? Ever hear of the extreme Libertarian/anarchist organization called 'Freemen-on-the-Land'?
> 
> http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09...ntal-property/


Ah, please do continue with your ignorance, as I've already told you before about generalizing and how bad it makes you look. Firstly, I don't support anarchy, some, if not most, libertarians don't either. So if you believe that's the end game, think again.

Secondly, if this individual took over the home, in my utopia, that individual would be inbreach of the woman's private property, thus subject to being locked up, by an officer of the law. In yet, I seriously doubt you understand this complexity, because you believe what you want to believe without having any real, open minded conversation.

Then again, I'm not the one claiming every extremist is one faction over the other. Why not start by just blaming the individual? That usually gets me right on point, all the time.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Not cop haters, anti-hot heads is more like it. Secondly, the video producer was the officer himself, the assumptions were his own. Thirdly, what rules of engagement is mischaracterized? That the officer should automatically walk in with the gun drawn and not a taser or mace? The man was no threat until the officer decided to walk around the corner, point a gun in the guys face, and decided to use authoritative force.
> 
> The cop gave the individual no choice. It was either die by the sword or by the gun, not the other way around.


If you think the video producer is a cop, I have a bridge to sell to you.

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## Pooltablerepairman

> Taser and mace works equally as good in this situation.


Uh, no... they don't.




> The cop already had the knife drawn, before even entering the house. Force was already running through the cops head. That's not the type of cop you want coming to a house for a call.


He had his pistol drawn because there was an EDP with a knife in the house. He had no idea where this person was or what he was going to do.

His actions were appropriate.

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## Roadmaster

> Taser and mace works equally as good in this situation. The cop already had the knife drawn, before even entering the house. Force was already running through the cops head. That's not the type of cop you want coming to a house for a call.


 Yes he knew he had a knife but I guess he  didn't expect him to go towards him. A taser would have been better and this was a kid that just had a wreck. You don't call people over to kill your son and I do understand what you are saying. The young man wasn't thinking but so was the mom.

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## Matalese

> The cop haters are at it again, and their idiocy is on display for all to see.  Any time a cop is called upon to shoot or take aggressive action, they're never right in the eyes of these morons.  The video producer and the OP author both made mischaracterizations about the rules of engagement, assuming that when somebody has a knife the cop is supposed to draw a taser.  Yeah I saw the video, and pooltablerepairman is correct.  The guy committed suicide-by-cop by giving the cop no choice but to fire his weapon.



How many times have you ever hear a cop hater bitch about them using tasers. Many Many times.

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Irascible Crusader (01-19-2014),Perianne (01-19-2014)

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## Matalese

> Uh, no... they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> He had his pistol drawn because there was an EDP with a knife in the house. He had no idea where this person was or what he was going to do.
> 
> His actions were appropriate.



The officer had no idea how many others were in the house either.

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## Matalese

> Do you not even read what I just wrote? Obviously not, or you wouldn't have gone onto your rant. The article I put, on the quote you quoted me on, I talked about how the officer shouldn't have died but, instead, should've shot the 72 year old.
> 
> I'm assuming you missed that in your blind rage. I'll let you re-read it my quote and then we can continue this discussion.



*
 Your definition of 'bad guy' might not be what I determine it to be.*


I read this far and then I stopped.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## Matalese

read the comments under this video. and then bitch some more why don't you?

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## Matalese

here's one the cop haters can get their jollies from

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## Matalese

Now don't ask any more stupid questions about why cops don't use tasers.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Now don't ask any more stupid questions about why cops don't use tasers.


A jury of idiots!  I went through firearms training to carry a firearm for security patrol and armored transport.  We were given a graphic illustration of what a man armed with a knife 10 feet away from you is capable of.  Our training was done by ex-cops and it was much of the same material that cops are trained with.  All these people saying the cop should have pulled a taser are morons speaking out of their ass. And the OP author actually believes the video producer is a cop!  Clearly somebody spiked the punch with stupid and everyone's drinking it.

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## Roadmaster

Well the cop didn't shoot his own and she had a gun.

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## Perianne

Maybe someone has mentioned it, but if the man wanted to throw the knife.\, then the officer's life was in danger.  Throwing the knife would take 1.2 seconds and the officer could be dead.  Besides, we've got enough people.  It's not like we are going to miss him.

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The Sage of Main Street (01-21-2014)

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> If you think the video producer is a cop, I have a bridge to sell to you.


Camera was attached to the officer, pretty clear who "produced" the video. If you think it was someone other than a cop, I'm fairly certain the officers, who came after the individual was shot, would've arrested said individual.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Uh, no... they don't.


Coming from an or former officer, this sentence doesn't surprise me.




> He had his pistol drawn because there was an EDP with a knife in the house. He had no idea where this person was or what he was going to do.


The person told him that there was only one individual in there with a knife. Not only that, they also arrested that woman as well.




> His actions were appropriate.


We'll agree to disagree on that one.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Camera was attached to the officer, pretty clear who "produced" the video. If you think it was someone other than a cop, I'm fairly certain the officers, who came after the individual was shot, would've arrested said individual.


Oh, you think that the cop who had a camera in his radio mic was also the video producer.  Sorry, if you're trying to maintain an image of intelligence, you didn't help your cause.  Those videos are public record and anyone can retrieve them and make youtube videos out of them including the editing and jackass commentary. The video producer was NOT a cop.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Now don't ask any more stupid questions about why cops don't use tasers.












> TROY, Ohio (WDTN) - A Troy man was arrested Thursday after police responded to the report of a domestic dispute.
> 
> When officers arrived at 10 South Crawford St., the man involved pulled out knife and started to cut himself.
> 
> 
> Officers used a stun gun to take the man into custody.
> 
> 
> http://www.wdtn.com/news/local/miami...man-with-knife





> OSHAWA -- Durham police used a Taser to subdue a man armed with a knife Wednesday night.
> 
>                                                                                       	On Nov. 30, police were called to a  central Oshawa residence at about 10:50 p.m. for reports of an armed  person.                             
> 
> 
>                                                                                       	They arrived to find a distraught, 57-year-old man holding a butcher knife to his chest.                             
> 
> 
>                                                                                       	Police say the Taser was deployed after  multiple attempts to get the man to drop the knife were unsuccessful.                             
> ...


Oh, I'm sorry, you were saying something about how tasers aren't appropriate in this situation? Remind me again whose 'stupid'.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Oh, you think that the cop who had a camera in his radio mic was also the video producer.  Sorry, if you're trying to maintain an image of intelligence, you didn't help your cause.  Those videos are public record and anyone can retrieve them and make youtube videos out of them including the editing and jackass commentary. The video producer was NOT a cop.


Your definition of producer isn't what I'm getting at. You're taking a whole different direction on this and trying to bash me at the same time. Nice try though.

As I don't want you to continue down the wrong path, here's a definition of 'video producer':




> Video producers work closely with all members of the cast and crew on  video productions to ensure that the process goes smoothly and is  completed on time. The video producer must have a good working knowledge  of all aspects of production from set design, lighting and audio  through to editing, filming and working with scripts. In small  productions the video producer may be the lead team member in the  production and may work with the director on all aspects of the  production.
> 
> http://www.jobprofiles.org/arts-and-...ideo-producer/


Now then, considering the officer was the one with the camera on him, that would make him the video producer. The path you're going down is that of who put the video up on YouTube. Of which, that individual didn't "produce" the video in the manner that I was taking it. In either case, you already stated that it's public information, and anyone could've put it up there. So in all honesty, that would make all of us video producers, by your very definition.

Then again, I'm sure there's a level of intelligence that you're trying to keep as well. It's not boasting too well for you, at this moment.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Oh, I'm sorry, you were saying something about how tasers aren't appropriate in this situation? Remind me again whose 'stupid'.


You are. And the more you speak the more you prove it.  You don't know how cops operate. There were likely 3 or more cops on the scene and at least one of them had their gun drawn even if another had a taser in case the suspect advanced on the cops to attack them.  You have no idea how cops operate and what kind of dangers they face yet you continue to speak out of your ass, being informed by nothing more than you visceral cop-hate.

But don't let me stand in your way, keep speaking

_Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt._ --Mark Twain

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> You are. And the more you speak the more you prove it.  You don't know how cops operate. There were likely 3 or more cops on the scene and at least one of them had their gun drawn even if another had a taser in case the suspect advanced on the cops to attack them.  You have no idea how cops operate and what kind of dangers they face yet you continue to speak out of your ass, being informed by nothing more than you visceral cop-hate.
> 
> But don't let me stand in your way, keep speaking
> 
> _Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt._ --Mark Twain


You really should practice what you preach.

The very first video, that you just quoted me on, the officer walked right beside the individual. If there was such a threat of the individual attacking with one of those knives, it definitely didn't cross the officers thought pattern. The original video, the officer was calling for back up. If what everyone has been saying on this thread is this 'unknown' of what the individual is going to do, how many people are there, etc, why be a hero and try to take on the individual by his self? Why not wait for backup?

Then again, that's just logic. Considering the people who're defending this, I can see why many libertarians have left the forum. Common sense just isn't so common anymore.

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## Matalese

> You really should practice what you preach.
> 
> The very first video, that you just quoted me on, the officer walked right beside the individual. If there was such a threat of the individual attacking with one of those knives, it definitely didn't cross the officers thought pattern. The original video, the officer was calling for back up. If what everyone has been saying on this thread is this 'unknown' of what the individual is going to do, how many people are there, etc, why be a hero and try to take on the individual by his self? Why not wait for backup?
> 
> Then again, that's just logic. Considering the people who're defending this, I can see why many libertarians have left the forum. Common sense just isn't so common anymore.


Well that makes sense. Leave the forum because many disagree with you. Really?

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## Irascible Crusader

> You really should practice what you preach.
> 
> The very first video, that you just quoted me on, the officer walked right beside the individual. If there was such a threat of the individual attacking with one of those knives, it definitely didn't cross the officers thought pattern. The original video, the officer was calling for back up. If what everyone has been saying on this thread is this 'unknown' of what the individual is going to do, how many people are there, etc, why be a hero and try to take on the individual by his self? Why not wait for backup?
> 
> Then again, that's just logic. Considering the people who're defending this, I can see why many libertarians have left the forum. Common sense just isn't so common anymore.


Keep displaying your ignorance of police procedures, you keep digging your hole deeper. First responding officers have to go in if there's immediate danger to human life.

But go on, keep speaking.  Your ignorance is pitiable but at least it's entertaining.

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## Perianne

> Considering the people who're defending this, I can see why many libertarians have left the forum. Common sense just isn't so common anymore.


I don't know that people are so much defending the police as they are not accusing them.  There are many people on this forum who despise the police.  I personally believe that without them (the police) the world would be a very different place, and not in a good way.

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## Irascible Crusader

I just noticed that one of the videos he used for "proof" is a UK police video. The police service in the UK don't carry guns on the street.  The idiocy waxes on!  This just keeps getting better....

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Well that makes sense. Leave the forum because many disagree with you. Really?


Don't know, I don't speak for everyone, I gave a break to this forum because I started doing things more locally. By being anonymous, most people aren't truthful, thus no discussions can be had.

I can make bigger changes by doing things locally. Thus, I would imagine most libertarians are trying to do the same thing. More times than not, it's hard to have a conversation without beginning to bash the other one, personally. After a while, conversations just become mind numbing, and boring.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Don't know, I don't speak for everyone, I gave a break to this forum because I started doing things more locally. By being anonymous, most people aren't truthful, thus no discussions can be had.
> 
> I can make bigger changes by doing things locally. Thus, I would imagine most libertarians are trying to do the same thing. More times than not, it's hard to have a conversation without beginning to bash the other one, personally. After a while, conversations just become mind numbing, and boring.


Next time use a video where the cops are clearly in the wrong (there are many to choose from) and you'll yield better results.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I just noticed that one of the videos he used for "proof" is a UK police video. The police service in the UK don't carry guns on the street.  The idiocy waxes on!  This just keeps getting better....


What difference does that make? Human beings are still human beings, officers are still officers.

The only one whose waxing any type of idiocy is yourself. Again, I would practice what you preach. Then again, you're just proving my point and it's all too fun watching you sputter out non-sense.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I don't know that people are so much defending the police as they are not accusing them.  There are many people on this forum who despise the police.  I personally believe that without them (the police) the world would be a very different place, and not in a good way.


I'm not saying police should go away. That's not my intent. My intent is merely for individuals to take a broader look at police as a whole. Too often folks accept the reality that officers have badges, they are the law, and whatever they say or do, citizens must obey. This, to me, is not holding them accountable

Police hold a valuable piece of the puzzle in keeping peace & order to a society. However, the problem has come to the fore front that they're abusing their power. Then, the corruption, within different police forces (LAPD & NYPD, just to same two), run so deep, that it's nearly impossible for even police officers to bring it forward.

Just look at Chris Dorner, former LAPD officer, said he was discriminated against because he was black. I don't like how he went about doing things, but he's life was basically ruined, in his words, because of the LAPD. So, it begs to question that if there is this going on, what will they do to average citizens? That's the intent I, and probably others, are going for. Again, I don't speak for everyone, I only speak for myself.

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

Unlike the incident cited that began this thread, which was NOT a legitimate complaint, THIS incident actually points to serious police wrong-doing, and the cops involved should be suspended until an investigation is concluded. They might have to be fired, sued, or even charged with felony assault for this:

*PERP: 84-year-old man beaten bloody by cops for resisting ticket...*

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Next time use a video where the cops are clearly in the wrong (there are many to choose from) and you'll yield better results.


The force used was wrong, again, that was the point of my OP. I'm very familiar with the ample amount of evidence showing officers clearly in the wrong. My point was the force used, and I'm still standing on the fact that it was wrong.

Non-lethal force can be used in situations when the individual has a knife. Even in my other articles, that you didn't comment on, involved the same type of scenario, all being used with a taser or a stun gun. So those methods do work, this officer decided to go with deadly force first, that's where my issue comes into play.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Unlike the incident cited that began this thread, which was NOT a legitimate complaint, THIS incident actually points to serious police wrong-doing, and the cops involved should be suspended until an investigation is concluded. They might have to be fired, sued, or even charged with felony assault for this:
> 
> *PERP: 84-year-old man beaten bloody by cops for resisting ticket...*


It's an absolute valid complaint. Did you look at my other posts showing where a taser and/or stun gun was used to subdue the individual? I'm assuming not, but will wait for you to bash libertarians in another general statement, per usual.

The force is what I'm focusing on. The officer went for deadly force first, not subduing the individual with non-lethal force.

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## Matalese

> Oh, I'm sorry, you were saying something about how tasers aren't appropriate in this situation? Remind me again whose 'stupid'.


I didn't say you were stupid. Just your question. Bristle much?

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I didn't say you were stupid. Just your question. Bristle much?


Not really, just don't care for the unneeded personal attacks. If you don't agree with me, just saying so does the trick. Keep your snarky remarks else where, as they're not warranted towards me.

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## Matalese

> Not really, just don't care for the unneeded personal attacks. If you don't agree with me, just saying so does the trick. Keep your snarky remarks else where, as they're not warranted towards me.


Give me an example of what you perceive to be a "snarky remark."

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## Matalese

> And how many times have you ever hear a cop lover say that killing an individual is warranted. Many, many times.
> 
> Hold on, I think I see you in this video...


Oh so ow you're anti U S A. Makes sense.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Oh so ow you're anti U S A. Makes sense.


All Branch Paulinians are.

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Oh so ow you're anti U S A. Makes sense.


Not anti-USA, just anti-corruption.

However, I don't think chanting USA, when you were under martial law, is something that should be embraced. Then again, I wonder if you feel the same way about folks who're rioting in Ukraine, over their government, right now. Are they anti-EU? Maybe even anti-Ukraine as well, if this is where your thought process is going.

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## Matalese

[QUOTE=Libertarian ForOur Future;196762]Not anti-USA, just anti-corruption.

However, I don't think chanting USA, when you were under martial law, is something that should be embraced. Then again, I wonder if you feel the same way about folks who're rioting in Ukraine, over their government, right now. Are they anti-EU? Maybe even anti-Ukraine as well, if this is where your thought process is ?


WTF are you even talking about?

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> All Branch Paulinians are.


Nice generalized statement. Please, do continue.

_I am patient with stupidity, but not with those who are proud of it. - Edith Sitwell_

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## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Originally Posted by Libertarian ForOur Future
> 
> 
> Not anti-USA, just anti-corruption.
> 
> However, I don't think chanting USA, when you were under martial law, is something that should be embraced. Then again, I wonder if you feel the same way about folks who're rioting in Ukraine, over their government, right now. Are they anti-EU? Maybe even anti-Ukraine as well, if this is where your thought process is ?
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you even talking about?


I didn't realize I had to break this one down. I'm getting completely off topic on this, next one I respond to will be about the OP, if not, I'm letting this ride.

You said that I'm anti-USA, I said I'm not anti-USA, just anti-corruption. Meaning, that I'm in favor of USA and everything the true values of this country hold, I just don't agree with corruption that will erode the very founding principles of this country. Pick a politician, corruption, I'm sure, will follow.

In regards to chanting USA, this was after martial law was lifted, the police captured the second bomber, and folks were chanting USA. Thus, they were chanting USA, in support, of everything, outside of the bombing, that occurred in Boston. I don't agree with that mentality.

Then, because folks are rioting in Ukraine, as I write this, I stated that you probably feel they are anti-EU (Because, that's what the Ukraine government wants to do, become absorbed into the EU) and anti-Ukraine. This was implying, indirectly, that because they're doing something you might not agree with, then they, too, must also be against their country.

Make sense?

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## Matalese

> Not anti-USA, just anti-corruption.
> 
> However, I don't think chanting USA, when you were under martial law, is something that should be embraced. Then again, I wonder if you feel the same way about folks who're rioting in Ukraine, over their government, right now. Are they anti-EU? Maybe even anti-Ukraine as well, if this is where your thought process is going.


Boston was under martial law? Why?

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## Matalese

Americans cannot chant USA in America? Really?

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## Pooltablerepairman

> The force used was wrong, again, that was the point of my OP. I'm very familiar with the ample amount of evidence showing officers clearly in the wrong. My point was the force used, and I'm still standing on the fact that it was wrong.
> 
> Non-lethal force can be used in situations when the individual has a knife. Even in my other articles, that you didn't comment on, involved the same type of scenario, all being used with a taser or a stun gun. So those methods do work, this officer decided to go with deadly force first, that's where my issue comes into play.


No, he didn't decide "to go with deadly force first".

The officer tried to talk the subject down. He refused to comply and advanced on the officer with the knife. That warranted the use of deadly force.

There is a lot you are not taking into account in your haste to paint the responding officer as some trigger happy goon.

First, you don't even know if was equipped with a Taser. Not all cops are.

He was in the house alone. As Crusader pointed out, normally when Tasers are deployed against a subject like this one, there are multiple officers on the scene. If that cop had tried to use his Taser and missed or if his device malfunctioned, the subject was close enough to him to have used the knife well before the officer could have transitioned to his sidearm. He had no covering officers to protect him if the Taser was ineffective.

If the subject had not ADVANCED ON THE OFFICER, he would not have been shot.  Even if he had jut stood there with the knife, the situation may have and probably would have been resolved differently. He chose to advance on the officer while armed with a knife. It was his actions which resulted in his death.

You mentioned Mace several times. Mace actually is seldom used anymore. Mace is CN, a form of tear gas which is really unsuitable for use inside a dwelling. It is an irritant and not really all that effective against a determined attacker. The chemical agent most often used these days is OC spray, which is an actual inflammatory agent which causes the eyes to involuntarily clamp shut, effectively causing temporary blindness. It also causes constriction of the breathing passages making it difficult for the sprayed subject to get air. All of this is accompanied by an intense burning sensation on the skin, especially moist skin. Unfortunately, OC is nondiscriminatory and if used in a confined space is as likely to affect the officer as it is the subject he sprays particularly is used at very close quarters and the officer is forced to wrestle the subject to the ground.

No matter how you analyze this particular situation, the officer's actions were well within established guidelines for the use of deadly force. It really doesn't matter how much you wish it to be otherwise.

The worst thing about that entire incident is that the officer who fired the fatal shots is going to have to live with that the rest of his life. It is going to affect him and his family for years to come. Do you have any idea how many police officers who are involved on fatal shootings end up in counseling, how many of them end up divorced, how many of them end up leaving law enforcement so they never have to experience that again? There is a big difference between a law enforcement fatal shooting and a military engagement on the battlefield and the psychological stress placed on an officer engaged in one is immense.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-20-2014),Matalese (01-20-2014),Perianne (01-20-2014)

----------


## Commissioner

> I'm curious now! What certification or educational background or experience do you have to make these determinations?
> 
> have you ever been in law enforcement? And, for that matter have you ever been threatened by a knife wielding person advancing on you?


Simple common sense.

Tell me, when the kid had the knife why didn't the cop just back away?  What, he was worried the kid was going to kill himself, and it would be better for him to step in and shoot him?  If the cop would have done that, he'd still be working.  More importantly, a teenager would still be alive.

Again, it's just common sense.  Think of a policeman's job like following the first rule of a doctor:  "First rule, do no harm."

----------


## Commissioner

> I bet you guys agree with giving the police rubber bullets huh?


Don't recall anything about rubber bullets.  *<<personal attack removed. BE CIVIL !!>>*

----------


## Commissioner

> Pooltablerepairman is correct in his analysis here, and he sounds like he has some kind of background in law enforcement in some way, maybe even a military background.


Still disagree.  The cop should have waited for back up....and somebody obviously much better to handle the situation. It's that simple.

Tell me what would waiting a little longer harmed?

----------


## Commissioner

> Only someone who has a death wish or absolutely no alternative would try a naked harm disarm of a subject armed with a knife.
> 
> What was the reason for disarming someone who was hiding in the kitchen with a knife again?  And waht was the harm in waiting? Again, was the cop worried the kid might hurt himself, and so figured it would be better to have a trained law enforcement professional supervise it?  
> 
> Size is irrelevant. Give a little guy a knife and he can take out the biggest, baddest man on the planet in a matter of seconds.


We're talking about a teenager, who was frightened because he'd been in an accident here.   The cop knew that and somewhere it should have figured into his decision making.

That video provides an excellent reason why people want to have a firearm in the house.   Inexperienced kids with guns and badges are just as dangerous as much of what you run into on the street.

----------


## Commissioner

> Here's the difference, if I had shot the individual, because they were in my house, coming at me with a knife, the whole world would be analyzing every aspect of the situation to see why did I have a gun in the first place. If it's a police officer, or someone gives a badge to, it's warranted in such a situation. See the difference?
> 
> The disease isn't libertarians, it's to the conformers who believe this type of thing is completely warranted, when in fact it's not. There are thousands of ways to handle this situation, the officer went straight for the aggressive way first, without caring about the other individual. If that person took his life with the knife, so be it, that's THEIR DECISION. Now, this individual might've been in a psychic ward, or a hospital, getting treatment, but now he's 6 feet deep.
> 
> We, as libertarians, are far from a disease. If you're so ob*serv*ant, you would've thought about that. Then again, I do see you took off the Thomas Sowell quote. How predictable.


That's about nails it.

----------


## Commissioner

> Instead of piling on cops for overreacting - which seems to be the common theme here - how about we recognize that police are limited, not in what they can do to stop assailants, but in what they should be CALLED to do?  Instead of using them as marriage counselors and referees, seat-belt-use monitors, controllers of who may avail themselves of the Second Amendment...redefine the job that they are to enforce laws where personal safety and property are at risk?
> 
> I'm not in favor of legalizing drugs, but zero-tolerance is doing more to turn the nation's police into a Gestapo than anything.  At the very least, put drug offenses back into the same categories as ordinary non-violent offenses.  LIMIT the NUMBER of these potentially-violent confrontations.
> 
> And then, within that, UNLEASH the police.  
> 
> Seriously.  When a person raises a knife to a police officer, he's not teaching whittling.  He means injuries.  Quit fooling around with rubber bullets and Tasars; if a person resists lawful authority...do what historically, cops have always been directed to do.
> 
> Shoot him.  Blow him away.  GET THE MESSAGE OUT - that if you flee the cops, YOU CAN DIE.


Let's hope one of these clowns never gets in your face after you've just given them carte blanche to blow everybody away they consider--or can rationalize later--as a threat.

----------


## St James

> Boston was under martial law? Why?


the tactics used in Watertown match the same tactics used by Boston's finest. 



Boston:



I was in the Philippines when martial law was still in effect. Businesses and private homes went through this on a fight regular basis. It was embarrassing for the servicemen stationed there.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Still disagree.  The cop should have waited for back up....and somebody obviously much better to handle the situation. It's that simple.
> 
> Tell me what would waiting a little longer harmed?


If more cops showed up, he would have still gotten shot when he advanced on officers with a knife.  You have no clue about police rules of engagement, escalation of force, and general procedures. You, like so many others on this thread, are just speaking out of your ass.

----------


## Commissioner

> Uh, no... they don't.
> 
> 
> 
> He had his pistol drawn because there was an EDP with a knife in the house. He had no idea where this person was or what he was going to do.
> 
> His actions were appropriate.



If this is the extent of your reasoning, I am pretty certain I wouldn't want you coming into my house with a gun drawn either.

----------


## Commissioner

> Easily avoidable. Don't draw a knife and advance on a policeman, especially when he's yelling at you to stop.


You're right there.  This was easily avoidable.  The cop could have waited in the living room.  The emotionally upset  kid in the kitchen was no threat to anyone but himself.  As things turned out it seems the cop actually was the biggest threat to this  kid.  That now is a simple fact.

----------


## Commissioner

> If more cops showed up, he would have still gotten shot when he advanced on officers with a knife.  You have no clue about police rules of engagement, escalation of force, and general procedures. You, like so many others on this thread, are just speaking out of your ass.


How can you say that.  Maybe one of those cops would have known how to handle this kid.  Nobody can be sure of that, but it's a distinct possibility. One thing is for sure, the cop who did the shooting certainly didn't have a clue how to de-fuse the situation.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> How can you say that.  Maybe one of those cops would have known how to handle this kid.  Nobody can be sure of that, but it's a distinct possibility. One thing is for sure, the cop who did the shooting certainly didn't have a clue how to de-fuse the situation.


Silly bleeding heart liberal!  That "kid" took away all other options when he advanced on the officer.  The only way to "handle" it is to put some hot copper-jacketed lead to his center-mass.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> We're talking about a teenager, who was frightened because he'd been in an accident here.   The cop knew that and somewhere it should have figured into his decision making.


And? The officer did try to talk the subject down. He gave him plenty of opportunity to stand down. The problem arose, and you keep ignoring this fact, when the subject ADVANCED ON THE OFFICER with the knife. That changed the entire dynamic of the situation. The officer repeatedly ordered the subject to halt and put down the knife and he continued to advance. The officer warned the subject that he WOULD SHOOT and he continued to advance. When the cop funally shot, the guy with the knife was more than close enough to be considered an "imminent threat" and his posture and refusal to comply with orders to halt and drop the knife left the officer little choice but to fire his weapon.




> That video provides an excellent reason why people want to have a firearm in the house.


What would you have done if you had a firearm in the house... shoot the cop?




> Inexperienced kids with guns and badges are just as dangerous as much of what you run into on the street.


An emotionally disturbed person with a weapon is about as dangerous as it gets. I would rather face a hardened gangbanger with a gun than an EDP with a knife.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-21-2014),Perianne (01-21-2014)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> If this is the extent of your reasoning, I am pretty certain I wouldn't want you coming into my house with a gun drawn either.


You probably wouldn't, but then, if I had a reason to enter your house with my sidearm drawn, what you wanted wouldn't matter very much.

----------


## Commissioner

> And? The officer did try to talk the subject down. He gave him plenty of opportunity to stand down. The problem arose, and you keep ignoring this fact, when the subject ADVANCED ON THE OFFICER with the knife.



(Actually no., The problem--and you keep ignoring this--arose when the cop went into the kitchen with the gun drawn.  If he hadn't done that there wouldn't be a teenager dead now who did nothing wrong other than panic after he had an auto accident.) 




> That changed the entire dynamic of the situation. The officer repeatedly ordered the subject to halt and put down the knife and he continued to advance.


 
(But you really can't tell if he was actually threatening the officer with the knife, can you?  Who's drawing conclusions now?) 




> The officer warned the subject that he WOULD SHOOT


 (When someone is pointing a gun at you and screaming in a highly excited fashion, do you really think most people are at that particular time wondering if the guy might actually pull the trigger?) 




> and he continued to advance. When the cop finally shot, the guy with the knife was more than close enough



(That kid must have had unusually long arms I guess, because rechecking the video he was at least ten feet away when the cop panicked and shot.)




> to be considered an "imminent threat" and his posture and refusal to comply with orders to halt and drop the knife left the officer little choice but to fire his weapon.


 
(You're quite the expert, aren't you? "Changing dynamics of the situation"..."imminent threat of his posture"(perhaps you can tell us what details of this kids posture tipped you off?) The only reason why this cop limited his choice to firing his weapon was a reasult of all the bad choices he'd already made.  I wouldn't want this cop anywhere near me in a stressful situation...and least of all when he's holding a firearm.

I'd bet almost anything that this cop would do almost anything to relive this moment.  What do you think?  You think he might wish he'd have just stayed put and kept talking to this kid from the living room? You think he might be wondering what it was he hoped to accomplish by getting in this kid's face with a drawn weapon?  'Why didn't I just keep my distance from this obviously upset kid rather than moving towards him with a drawn weapon warning that I could kill him any time I decide to?'




> What would you have done if you had a firearm in the house... shoot the cop?


 
Where the fuck is this coming from?  What does it have to do with anything?  What does it have to do with me, an adult, not a panicked teenage kid?   To be honest if a cop entered my house with a firearm I can honestly say I'd just hope it's not someone like this inexperienced kid with a badge and a gun.  Unfortunately you don't have a lot of options any more.  From the "handful" of videos we're seeing almost on a daily basis, that's what it's come to these days.  America just ain't what it used to be.




> An emotionally disturbed person with a weapon is about as dangerous as it gets. I would rather face a hardened gangbanger with a gun than an EDP with a knife.


 
Why not kill all the emotionally disturbed people now and solve the problem?  Or we could just accept the fact that nobody told the police their job was going to be easy.  There are risks.  And if you can't live with that, go be a bouncer at a strip bar...from  the "handful" of videos it's looking like quite a few of them are better suited for that line of work anyways.

----------


## Commissioner

> You probably wouldn't, but then, if I had a reason to enter your house with my sidearm drawn, what you wanted wouldn't matter very much.



Thanks for illustrating the problem in spades. 

Tell us:  How does a panicked kid who was involved in an accident and is threatening to do harm to no one other than himself becomes a reason to draw you gun?

I have made the point that this cop had a number of options available to him other than rushing this kid with his weapon drawn.  This cop would almost unquestionably be better suited for another line of work.  If this cop hadn't shown up in this video it would have been another one soon enough.  He seems to enjoy barking orders with his gun drawn just a bit too much.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> .................


I wish you would learn to use the QUOTE function. Trying to quote your responses is more of a pain in the ass than they are worth.




> (Actually no., The problem--and you keep ignoring  this--arose when the cop went into the kitchen with the gun drawn.  If  he hadn't done that there wouldn't be a teenager dead now who did  nothing wrong other than panic after he had an auto accident.)


No, but you my very well have had a dead cop.




> (That kid must have had unusually long arms I  guess, because rechecking the video he was at least ten feet away when  the cop panicked and shot.)


Standard, nationally accepted use of force guidelines define a person armed with a knife within 21 feet to be a lethal threat. Of course, you didn't know that and probably don't care because it is easy to spout off from a position of ignorance than it is to educate yourself and present a well reasoned argument. The "21 foot rule" was established because it has been determined by test after test that an attacker with a knife, bat, crowbar, etcetera, within 21 feet can close the gap and use that weapon before the vast majority of people can draw, aim and fire a handgun from a holster.

I have to go out for a while, but maybe I will waste some more of my time trying to educate you when I return.

----------


## Commissioner

> I wish you would learn to use the QUOTE function. Trying to quote your responses is more of a pain in the ass than they are worth.
> No, but you my very well have had a dead cop.


 
How do you figure?  If the cop was in the living room and the kid was in the kitchen?




> Standard, nationally accepted use of force guidelines define a person armed with a knife within 21 feet to be a lethal threat.


 
Then the force guidelinmes are fucked up, and need to be changed.  Also, do these "force guidelines"  preclude any exercise of common sense? 




> Of course, you didn't know that and probably don't care because it is easy to spout off from a position of ignorance than it is to educate yourself and present a well reasoned argument.


 
Tell you what, when you explain why it was necessary to confront that kind in the kitchen rather than stand back away, then you can accuse me of "spouting off".  Until then I am goingto assume you know no more than me about this stuff. 




> The "21 foot rule" was established because it has been determined by test after test that an attacker with a knife, bat, crowbar, etcetera, within 21 feet can close the gap and use that weapon before the vast majority of people can draw, aim and fire a handgun from a holster.



I'll bet a lot of people are convinced you have some special knowledge about these things.  Sorry, I'm not convinced you know anything more than anyone else here.




> I have to go out for a while, but maybe I will waste some more of my time trying to educate you when I return.


 
Please don't bother.  I've heard enough of your BS.

----------


## Commissioner

> Both, and I have on more than one occasion, faced an armed subject with a knife.


 *<<personal attack removed>>*

Just for the record, I'll also tell you that I have had a loaded firearm put  under my chin by hysterical  people yelling and screaming at me on two different occasions, and for some odd reason, I never really worried about getting shot.  (In fact, in one case I laughed at the guy, an Air Force SP guarding a barracks for SAC tanker people on alert.  BTW, you probably would have loved the way this SP said with a snarl, "I coulda shot you,man!" when this little exercise ended.   In the other instance  I didn't laugh so much, because it was a kid no more than eighteen with an AK-47 in my face who was a member of the Peoples Republic of China Army.  Still I never really believed the kid would actually shoot me.  In fact, in both these cases it was more a matter of people letting me know they could boss me around...kind of like the cop in this video not liking his authority being  questioned by anyone, yet alone a teenage kid.)      It's just that I neither care if it impresses anyone nor worry if anyone believes it.  I get sick of all this victimization horseshit as well as the hero worship...whether it comes from the Al Sharpton crowd or the cops.  If you're a cop and you can't come to grips with the risks, then go do something else for a living.

This is an anonymous message board where people can discuss what's on their mind.  And for a lot of people it's examples of asshole behavior by cops. .  Unfortunately you and a few others seem more interested in supporting all cops regardless of what's put in front of you--essentially ignoring these examples-- for the purpose of either declaring no one has any right to criticize people in law enforcement or because you just like to impress people with your debating skills.  (I'm guessing it's a combination of two, BTW.)  There are people who shouldn't be cops.  Deal with it.

Honestly, people put these handful" of examples of bad cop behavior up for comment  and for some reason other people like you come along and say they can't do that because it reflects badly on the rest of the cops.  So we should all just meekly and without question obey every cop who comes along, no matter if he's out of line or not?  That about it? 

Here's an idea, why not just admit that there's some bad cops out there...that there's some people who shouldn't be cops because of their temperment or whatever...that oftentimes police training isn't what it should be...and that  even a good cop can make a bad decision because he's, well, human, and everybody makes mistakes.  There really is no reason to rag on people just because they're pointing out some examples of something that ain't right....and saying it can't be condoned.  You have no right to project why you think  people post these examples of bad cop behavior.  Just like you can't say for sure if that kid was really threatening that cop with the knife you have no idea what the motives are of people who post all these examples of asswipe cops.

I haven't seen anybody here say all cops are assholes.  But if you can show an example of where they have, please, re-post it.  Otherwise you need to just look at these examples and say something like "Shit happens."

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> *Cop Shoots, Kills Man, After Crashing Car, Running to Friends House, and Pulls Knife on Himself (Not the cop)* **Warning, Video is graphic and shows cop shooting & killing man, you've been warned**
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the #1 question I have to ask is, why was the gun drawn in the first place? #2, wouldn't a taser have worked in that situation?
> 
> Now I'm sure someone is going to say the cop was in the right, but shooting the man 5 times is right? In yet, these are the individuals that we, as citizens, are meant to call in time of need? No thanks, I'll call them after my house is clear & secure.


Libretardians are such childish and permissive little wimps, giving a scumbag the right to threaten a policeman with a knife.  Good riddance to the punk.  There'll be a lot more running loose if we elect sheltered snobs who have no respect for legitimate authorities out on the front line in the war against subhuman criminals.

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Irascible Crusader (01-21-2014)

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## The Sage of Main Street

> I'm curious now! What certification or educational background or experience do you have to make these determinations?
> 
> have you ever been in law enforcement? And, for that matter have you ever been threatened by a knife wielding person advancing on you?


Whenever a cop got killed instead, Atlas shrugged.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?


Moral:  Don't bring a taser to a knife fight.  By the time you are half-way through the second "Put it down!" that knife will be sticking out of your throat.

----------


## Perianne

> I haven't seen anybody here say all cops are assholes.


I have seen people here refer to cops as f*ing pigs.

Yes, there are bad cops.  But overall, I believe they do a noble service for America.

----------

Trinnity (01-22-2014)

----------


## Perianne

> Whenever a cop got killed instead, Atlas shrugged.


Good point.  I have seen seemingly endless threads about bad cops, but I don't remember any threads about the officers who went down in the line of duty.  Any wonder they stick together?

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> This logic makes zero sense to me. What about the individual who was special needs, and got shot by a police officer? 
> 
> I would've been happy if the cop didn't shoot the individual at all. .


Real Americans would be more worried about the special needs of the family of a cop killed following your restrictions.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Easily avoidable. Don't draw a knife and advance on a policeman, especially when he's yelling at you to stop.


If you do try that, I'm sure you can get away with it if you quote the encyclicals of the Libretardian pope, Paul II.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> I have seen people here refer to cops as f*ing pigs.
> 
> Yes, there are bad cops.  But overall, I believe they do a noble service for America.


Very strange avatar,  @Perianne

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Not cop haters, anti-hot heads is more like it. Secondly, the video producer was the officer himself, the assumptions were his own. Thirdly, what rules of engagement is mischaracterized? That the officer should automatically walk in with the gun drawn and not a taser or mace? The man was no threat until the officer decided to walk around the corner, point a gun in the guys face, and decided to use authoritative force.
> 
> The cop gave the individual no choice. It was either die by the sword or by the gun, not the other way around.


The scumbag had the choice to put down the knife.  You act like the cop shot him without warning.  Frankly, I would have.  Remember, this punk refused to answer when the cop called him again and again.  Then he shows himself carrying a knife.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> The scumbag had the choice to put down the knife.  You act like the cop shot him without warning.  Frankly, I would have.  Remember, this punk refused to answer when the cop called him again and again.  Then he shows himself carrying a knife.


He committed suicide. The outcome was precisely what he was hoping for. No foul has been committed.

----------


## Commissioner

> I have seen people here refer to cops as f*ing pigs.
> 
> Yes, there are bad cops.  But overall, I believe they do a noble service for America.


I said that I didn't see anyone do it on this thread.  Consequently there was no reason to question the  motives of either the OP or people who came along and confirmed that, 'Yes, there's more of this crap going on than should be going on.'   But regardless if someone had posted "cops are f---ing pigs" at some point somewhere on this forum, is that any reason to denigrate anyone who posts an example of bad cop behavior,  and then accuse them of having  some ulterior  motive for doing so that goes beyond pointing out that this behavior exists and people need to be aware of it?

And for the record once again, I also believe that overall most cops do a noble job.

That said, and in keeping with the theory that bad cop behavior actually happens more than some people here care to admit I am going to make a point to keep this thread going for awhile.  Keep in mind I'm not actually looking for these examples of bad cop behavior, and I don't subscribe to any website that focuses on documenting them.  This is just stuff that comes in my email, mostly on the conservative-oriented sites who regularly email me about how Obama is screwing up.  Unfortunately these examples seem to be coming almost daily now. I was thinking of creating a new thread entitled "Your Daily Example of Asswipe Cop Behavior" but that would probably be too much for the "Cops can do no wrong and you're a reefer-smoking '60s hippie if you say otherwise" crowd. "

Here's the example that came in just a half hour ago:


*NYPD Beat Up, Hospitalizes 84-Year-Old Man For Jaywalking*

http://lastresistance.com/4446/nypd-...an-jaywalking/

Here's a great reason for having the cops beat the crap out of an 84 year old man....he didn't speak English.  In all fairness, this 84 year old Chinese guy reportedly pushed the cop when they put him up against the wall for jaywalking and he had no idea what they were talking about.  It hasn't been confirmed yet if weapons were pulled out within the critical 21-foot danger zone.  Consequently,  Internal Affairs is investigating whether "standard, nationally recognized use of force guidelines" were followed.  For now it appears to be your run of the mill beating of an elderly man by some cops who have more muscle than common sense.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring?

----------


## Perianne

> I was thinking of creating a new thread entitled "Your Daily Example of Asswipe Cop Behavior" but that would probably be too much for the "Cops can do no wrong and you're a reefer-smoking '60s hippie if you say otherwise" crowd.


You would make a lot of friends here if you were to start that thread.  Lots of cop-haters here.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> I said that I didn't see anyone do it on this thread.  Consequently there was no reason to question the  motives of either the OP or people who came along and confirmed that, 'Yes, there's more of this crap going on than should be going on.'   But regardless if someone had posted "cops are f---ing pigs" at some point somewhere on this forum, is that any reason to denigrate anyone who posts an example of bad cop behavior,  and then accuse them of having  some ulterior  motive for doing so that goes beyond pointing out that this behavior exists and people need to be aware of it?
> 
> And for the record once again, I also believe that overall most cops do a noble job.
> 
> That said, and in keeping with the theory that bad cop behavior actually happens more than some people here care to admit I am going to make a point to keep this thread going for awhile.  Keep in mind I'm not actually looking for these examples of bad cop behavior, and I don't subscribe to any website that focuses on documenting them.  This is just stuff that comes in my email, mostly on the conservative-oriented sites who regularly email me about how Obama is screwing up.  Unfortunately these examples seem to be coming almost daily now. I was thinking of creating a new thread entitled "Your Daily Example of Asswipe Cop Behavior" but that would probably be too much for the "Cops can do no wrong and you're a reefer-smoking '60s hippie if you say otherwise" crowd. 
> 
> Here's the example that came in just a half hour ago:
> 
> 
> ...


 *<<flamebaiting/trolling removed>>*

----------

Perianne (01-21-2014)

----------


## Perianne

Hahahaha!

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> You really should practice what you preach.
> 
>  The original video, the officer was calling for back up. If what everyone has been saying on this thread is this 'unknown' of what the individual is going to do, how many people are there, etc, why be a hero and try to take on the individual by his self? Why not wait for backup?
> 
> Then again, that's just logic. Considering the people who're defending this, I can see why many libertarians have left the forum. Common sense just isn't so common anymore.


In Randworld, we might have to put a warning label on knives:  WARNING:  This is not a stage prop that you can hold in your hand while a cop is talking to you. 

 But that would be "statist," so we'll just have to let people do it and prosecute the cops who don't understand about the individual right to be a life-threatening scumbag.

----------

Perianne (01-21-2014)

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> It's an absolute valid complaint. Did you look at my other posts showing where a taser and/or stun gun was used to subdue the individual? I'm assuming not, but will wait for you to bash libertarians in another general statement, per usual.
> 
> The force is what I'm focusing on. The officer went for deadly force first, not subduing the individual with non-lethal force.


The punk had a deadly weapon in his hand.  You act like it was a plastic knife from McDonald's.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> In Randworld, we might have to put a warning label on knives:  WARNING:  This is not a stage prop that you can hold in your hand while a cop is talking to you. 
> 
>  But that would be "statist," so we'll just have to let people do it and prosecute the cops who don't understand about the individual right to be a life-threatening scumbag.


It's why I'm against warning labels and all for embetterment of the species through Darwinist elimination.

----------

Perianne (01-21-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

> *Cop Shoots, Kills Man, After Crashing Car, Running to Friends House, and Pulls Knife on Himself (Not the cop)* **Warning, Video is graphic and shows cop shooting & killing man, you've been warned**
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So, the #1 question I have to ask is, why was the gun drawn in the first place? #2, wouldn't a taser have worked in that situation?*
> 
> Now I'm sure someone is going to say the cop was in the right, but shooting the man 5 times is right? In yet, these are the individuals that we, as citizens, are meant to call in time of need? No thanks, I'll call them after my house is clear & secure.


#1. Man with a knife in my house call???

#2. Maybe, maybe not. Tasers don't always work. If the taser failed, the cop could have got his throat cut. He did what he had to do.

----------


## Perianne

> It's why I'm against warning labels and all for embetterment of the species through Darwinist elimination.


I am a fan of Social Darwinism.

----------


## Commissioner

> The punk had a deadly weapon in his hand.  You act like it was a plastic knife from McDonald's.


You know what's really deadly?  People like you with a computer who post on these sites.  The laughter from your stupidity is killing people.

----------


## DonGlock26

> I wouldn't make that determination.   There was no reason for this to go down this way.   Here's a suggestion, this obviouslyt very frightened little punk--and I'm talking about the cop here--could have done nothing until someone better suited showed up on the site.  What, he felt he had to act because he was worried the kid was going to kill himself? and it would be better if the killing was done by a trained law enforcement professional like himself?  There was simply no need to rush this situation to any conclusion yet alone to how it actually ended.
> 
> About the only thing that is obvious is that the shooter is in no way qualified for police work.  He obviously panicked in a situation he didn't need to.  As for whether he should be charged with murder or manslaughter, I really am not sure..  This cop was put into a position he was completely unqualified to be in. Listen to the terror in his voice after the shooting, where he suddenly recognizes he fucked up royally.   It speaks volumes about this guy's fitness for a very high-stress job.  The people who are most at fault are the ones who gave this junior Kojack a job in law enforcement.


Sorry, the idiot approached a cop with a blade. He signed his own death warrant.

----------


## DonGlock26

> I wonder why no one ever starts a thread about the bad guys killing cops? Is everyone okay with dead cops? Where is the outrage?


Simple. They don't give a fuck.

----------


## Commissioner

> #1. Man with a knife in my house call???
> 
> #2. Maybe, maybe not. Tasers don't always work. If the taser failed, the cop could have got his throat cut. He did what he had to do.


If he was worried that the taser might not work, then why not stay in the living room instead of rushing the kid in the kitchen with his firearm?

----------


## Perianne

> *<<insult removed>>*


Okay.  Enough of this thread for me.

----------


## Commissioner

> Simple. They don't give a fuck.


I never started a thread either way.  But I will if it will make you feel better, sweetheart.

Yeah I feel bad about cops who lose their lives in the line of duty.  Where do you get off telling me or anyone else that they don't care?

It appears you're too busy joining the other sheeple who only want to hear one side of things.

----------


## DonGlock26

> How would a taser not been appropriate but a gun is? This logic makes zero sense to me. What about the individual who was special needs, and got shot by a police officer? Does a taser or something else not warrant such a situation?
> 
> While I don't know the whole story, the point being is the individual was in a state of shock. In which, after the car accident, the individual decided to run to a friends house, and threaten to take his "OWN" life with a knife. Clearly the individual isn't the right frame of mind, that doesn't give the officer authority to take the suspect out like that. Before he was even within the vicinity of the individual, the weapon was already drawn. To me, the cop was already thinking deadly force before trying to talk some sense into the individual.
> 
> 
> I would've been happy if the cop didn't shoot the individual at all. Taser, mace, or any other non-lethal object would've done the job just as well. I don't care if the officer came in with a .308 rifle, the cause and effect are still the same. In yet, there is a dead individual, over an f'n car crash. Allow me to repeat that, there is someone dead because of a car crash.


At close range, if the taser doesn't connect or work, the cop can get carved up like a turkey. That's why the idiot got himself killed.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Not really an interesting question. People post these things up (myself included) because people have gotten so accustomed to police shooting someone, that it's a normalized situation. Folks assume cops had good causes to do it, and just let it be as that. Like police are some higher deity that we, as society, must bow down to and respect. Since they have the badges, all citizens must respect their authority.
> 
> Police officers should be held accountable, on every aspect of the things they do. If everyday citizens are scrutinized because of guns, then why not do the same for officers? There's no outrage when cops shoot everyday individuals, but this country will get upset if a normal citizen uses one. Why is that? Where's the outrage in that?


Normal citizens don't answer "men with guns or knives" calls because other normal citizens called 911.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Your opinion on how this could be easily avoidable is different than mine. Firstly, the individual was in his own friends house with a knife. The cop entered the house, with the gun drawn. This isn't out in some public area, and the individual began approaching the officer. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.


That's right. It's not his house. He had no right to draw a knife there. 

He drew his gun to protect himself and it turned out to be a wise move. Sounds like he followed his training. 

What America needs are libertarian ride-a-long volunteers who can handle all the knife disarming for the police.

----------


## Commissioner

> Normal citizens don't answer "men with guns or knives" calls because other normal citizens called 911.


"Normal," well trained cops don't look for opportunities to fire their weapons...they look for ways to avoid firing them.  This one in the video looks and sounds like one who couldn't wait to pull his gun out and show somebody eho's boss.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Did you ever  wonder why so many people felt the need to threaten you with a weapon?


Let's see... the first time, the subject had just cut someone else, slashed him across the abdomen. I arrived on the scene and he turned the knife on me. The second time was at the end of a foot pursuit. The guy had no place else to go, so he pulled a knife. Do you need any more examples?




> Maybe they just got sick of listening to you?


I am sure they did.




> But kudos to you for getting someone to fall for the BS that you were once a cop without actually saying as much.  But that's one of the great things about posting on an anonymous message board, isn't it?


I am in fact a commissioned law enforcement officer. I am not a patrol officer, although I was for a long time. I am a Use of Force Instructor. I am also recognized by my state as an expert witness in the defensive use of force for both law enforcement and non law enforcement personnel.




> Just for the record, I'll also tell you that I have had a loaded firearm put  under my chin by hysterical  people yelling and screaming at me on two different occasions, and for some odd reason, I never really worried about getting shot.  (In fact, in one case I laughed at the guy, an Air Force SP guarding a barracks for SAC tanker people on alert.  BTW, you probably would have loved the way this SP said with a snarl, "I coulda shot you,man!" when this little exercise ended.   In the other instance  I didn't laugh so much, because it was a kid no more than eighteen with an AK-47 in my face who was a member of the Peoples Republic of China Army.  Still I never really believed the kid would actually shoot me.  In fact, in both these cases it was more a matter of people letting me know they could boss me around...kind of like the cop in this video not liking his authority being  questioned by anyone, yet alone a teenage kid.)      It's just that I neither care if it impresses anyone nor worry if anyone believes it.  I get sick of all this victimization horseshit as well as the hero worship...whether it comes from the Al Sharpton crowd or the cops.  If you're a cop and you can't come to grips with the risks, then go do something else for a living.


Okay, so we know you were either dumb or careless enough to get yourself in a potentially fatal situation twice. I guess that makes you an expert in the use of force.




> This is an anonymous message board where people can discuss what's on their mind.  And for a lot of people it's examples of asshole behavior by cops. .  Unfortunately you and a few others seem more interested in supporting all cops regardless of what's put in front of you--essentially ignoring these examples-- for the purpose of either declaring no one has any right to criticize people in law enforcement or because you just like to impress people with your debating skills.  (I'm guessing it's a combination of two, BTW.)  There are people who shouldn't be cops.  Deal with it.


You will probably never find anyone more critical of cops who abuse their authority or use poor tactics than me. I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing cops IF the criticism is warranted. In this particular case, it was not. By every standard (based only on what was visible in the video) the cop was right. It was a righteous shoot. 




> Honestly, people put these handful" of examples of bad cop behavior up for comment  and for some reason other people like you come along and say they can't do that because it reflects badly on the rest of the cops.  So we should all just meekly and without question obey every cop who comes along, no matter if he's out of line or not?  That about it?


If you are going to accuse me of having said such a thing, please have the decency to provide quotes to support the allegation. I have never said any such thing. We have been discussing a specific incident. Your assessment of that incident was completely wrong. It was wrong for two reasons... one is a predisposition on your part to see cops in a negative light. The other is your ignorance of proper police procedure and the use of force. I am not responsible for either of those.




> Here's an idea, why not just admit that there's some bad cops out there...that there's some people who shouldn't be cops because of their temperment or whatever...that oftentimes police training isn't what it should be...and that  even a good cop can make a bad decision because he's, well, human, and everybody makes mistakes.


I don't think I have heard anyone dispute that. You just failed to provide a valid example of it.

----------


## DonGlock26

> "Normal," well trained cops don't look for opportunities to fire their weapons...they look for ways to avoid firing them.  This one in the video looks and sounds like one who couldn't wait to pull his gun out and show somebody eho's boss.


The cop didn't randomly shoot this clown. He knew there was a knife involved and was ready in case this idiot assaulted him. That's why police are armed.

I think you are seeing what you want to see out of personal bias.

Educate yourself:

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

Libretardians are the outcome we're stuck with from parents not being allowed to spank demanding little brats.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Oh so ow you're anti U S A. Makes sense.


It follows from Objectivist ideology.  To be patriotic, you have to belong to a country instead of a stateless jungle.  Libretardians have to look at these Bostonians as bloodthirsty statists.  Why would these individuals celebrate when the jihadis didn't attack them individually?  So they must be collectivists supporting collectivist national defense.  And I'm sure that the cops who killed the bomber could have tasered him instead!

----------


## Commissioner

> Originally Posted by *Libertarian ForOur Future*  
> 
>                  Your opinion on how this could be easily  avoidable is different than mine. Firstly, the individual was in his own  friends house with a knife. The cop entered the house, with the gun  drawn. This isn't out in some public area, and the individual began  approaching the officer. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.






> That's right. It's not his house. He had no right to draw a knife there.  *<<insult removed>>* The people who owned the house knew the kid as a fiend of their son's.  What, we're going for legal technicalities to justify a clearly unnecessary shooting?
> 
> He drew his gun to protect himself and it turned out to be a wise move. Sounds like he followed his training.  Correction, he drew his gun while he was in the living room.  He couldn't have possibly known whether the kid was holding a knife. He did, however, know he had a teenager extremely upset about wrecking Mom's car.  So I guess that's plenty of reason to show off your gun and start screaming that people better listen to you or you'll bolw them away.
> 
> What America needs are libertarian ride-a-long volunteers who can handle all the knife disarming for the police.


The other guy said we were "leftists".  Now you're calling us "libertaerians".  Are you stupid or what?  Make up your mind ladies.

*<<insult/name calling removed>>*  if I was a cop in this particular situation I'd sooner take the chance of a couple of nicks with a knife from a teenage kid before I'd pull a firearm on him and have to live with the consequences.

You *<<insult/name calling removed>>* are so concerned about the cops?  You don't seem too concerned about this cop.  Keep in mind:  he's going to have to live with killing this kid.  And I'll bet it'll be a lot tougher for him to rationalize the end result of  a dead kid in his mind *<<insult/name calling removed>>*

----------


## Trinnity

> Libretardians are the outcome we're stuck with from parents not being allowed to spank demanding little brats.


*1) Libertarians....so you're calling ME a demanding little brat as a child? Do I seem petulant and demanding to you? To anyone here? Now's your chance.

2) Btw, your claim doesn't even make any sense.*

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Americans cannot chant USA in America? Really?


Because it stands for the United States of America, which makes it "statist."  What parts of his self-obsessed and anti-social soliloquies don't you understand?

----------


## Commissioner

> The cop didn't randomly shoot this clown. He knew there was a knife involved and was ready in case this idiot assaulted him.   But then the kid never assaulted him with the knife, did he?  Actually it's pretty hard to assualt anyone with a knife from ten feet, ain't it?  He just didn't put the knife down. That's why police are armed.  In most cases true.  But it's starting to look like some of them carry firearms because they don't have dicks.  But really, keep making excuses for this cop.  I'm sure they're making him feel so much better about what happened.
> 
> I think you are seeing what you want to see out of personal bias.  I was going to say the same thing about you.   BTW, what's your explanation for why this cop just didn't stay put?  It's pretty clear, if he'd stayed in the living room this kid might be alive today.  Ask one of these phony law enforcement experts around here if they think the longer this went on the better chance of it coming out favorably.  Really, go ahead and ask them.  Or wait, maybe tou don't want to hear the answert to that question.
> 
> Educate yourself: Sorry I don't consider some flag-waving asshole making excuses for a cop who messed up as an education.  So go screw yourself.



......

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> I am a fan of Social Darwinism.


If there was any truth to Darwinism, the Libretardians would have become extinct as soon as _homo sapiens_ evolved.

----------


## Matalese

The cop asked the guy to come out 5 times each time he said "please" he was derelict though because he didn't say "pretty please with sugar on it." Then the cop said "put the knife down, I will shoot you." The guy didn't put the knife down and he kept advancing, it's a tragic but predictable ending.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> *1) Libertarians....so you're calling ME a demanding little brat as a child? Do I seem petulant and demanding to you? To anyone here? Now's your chance.
> 
> 2) Btw, your claim doesn't even make any sense.*


There's a certain brand of libertarians who are really juvenile punks, anarchists who hate authority and hate cops, probably because they ran afoul one because they were being stupid and breaking the law. That's the kind of 'libertarians' who start these threads.  They're overgrown, whiny little bitches.

----------


## Matalese

Oh, and Eric Byron Johnston was no teenager. He was a 35 year old man.

----------


## Commissioner

> You would make a lot of friends here if you were to start that thread.  Lots of cop-haters here.


I'm not a cop hater. But  I'm also not someone who's inclined to stick his head in the sand and say we really shouldn't say bad things about any cops because it reflects badly on the rest of them.

I call 'em like  I see 'em.  And I learned my lesson a long time ago about kissing peoples' asses.  As for friends I have plenty of them already, probably because they appreciate my honesty and objectivity

 On the other hand, you can never  get enough truth.  And when you see something that needs correcting you correct it.  You don't make excuses.

I'll let others sit around here and make excuses for this cop--not to mention the hundreds of other examples of crappy cop behavior that are readily available...examples that they'd prefer just to ignore because it doesn't fit with their "law and order"  narrative.  But I admit is interesting hearing morons label anyone who disagrees with their BS as a leftist or libertarian or whatever.  I wonder if they have a clue just how stupid that sounds?

----------


## Trinnity

> There's a certain brand of libertarians who are really juvenile punks, anarchists who hate authority and hate cops, probably because they ran afoul one because they were being stupid and breaking the law. That's the kind of 'libertarians' who start these threads.  They're overgrown, whiny little bitches.


They're not libertarians, though. They adopt the mantle of libertarianism without really understanding what it means. I've been a libertarian since the early 1980's.

----------

Perianne (01-21-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

> The other guy said we were "leftists".  Now you're calling us "libertaerians".  Are you stupid or what?  Make up your mind ladies.
> 
> *<<insult removed>>* if I was a cop in this particular situation I'd sooner take the chance of a couple of nicks with a knife from a teenage kid before I'd pull a firearm on him and have to live with the consequences.
> 
> You *<<insult removed>>* are so concerned about the cops?  You don't seem too concerned about this cop.  Keep in mind:  he's going to have to live with killing this kid.  And I'll bet it'll be a lot tougher for him to rationalize the end result of  a dead kid in his mind *<<insult removed>>*.



*<<insult removed>>* You think knife disarming in the movies is real life? LMFAO!! 

So what? The officer was investigating a hit and run. The homeowner told the officer that the driver was in HER house with a knife and she was MORE worried that he would hurt himself. That means she was somewhat worried that he could hurt someone else. The officer was obligated to stop him from harming himself or the homeowner. 

Clearly unnecessary shooting? The officer has already been clear by the DA. It was a justified shooting. 

There is no correction necessary. She said he was armed with a knife. The officer drew his pistol because he might have to quickly protect himself. He turned out to be right. 

The WARNING from the homeowner that their was an armed man in her house was what he knew. That is plenty of reason to draw his pistol to protect himself. 

You are opposed to his orders to put the knife down and give fair warning before shooting? WTF?? You don't think the police should warn people before they are forced to shoot them time permitting? I'll tell you what, I bet you would bitching, if the officer just shot him with no warning. The police can't win with you, if when people advance on them with a knife.

Clearly, you are *<<insult removed>>*. The officer was already cleared. The assclown committed suicide by cop. Deal with it.

LOL!! Now, you are just be absurd. Nicks?? Really? He's living with surviving a justified shooting. Guess what? Normal citizens do to.

The point is that he's alive. He didn't get stabbed to death. Get it? The real world isn't TV kid.

The simpletons are the ones that can't figure out why people who attack the police or resist arrest get force used on them.

Did anyone ever teach you that the police can use force on you should you attack them, others, or resist a lawful arrest? 

Are people really getting to adulthood this ignorant of the basic laws of society? 

These threads just show that Idiocracy is happening before our very eyes.


Real life, kid:

----------


## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

Most libertarians regard cops in pretty much this light:

----------


## Commissioner

> *<<insult removed>>* You think knife disarming in the movies is real life? LMFAO!! 
> 
> So what? The officer was investigating a hit and run. The homeowner told the officer that the driver was in HER house with a knife and she was MORE worried that he would hurt himself. That means she was somewhat worried that he could hurt someone else. The officer was obligated to stop him from harming himself or the homeowner.  Wasn't the cop telling the guy in the kitchen don't worry it's just an accident'? Now you're twisiting it around into some deadly hit-and-run scenario.  Nice.
> 
> Clearly unnecessary shooting? The officer has already been clear by the DA. It was a justified shooting.  Just goes to show you how messed up things are.  I don't care what the DA says.  At the very least this particular cop has some issues with making intelligent decisions.  You can't ask it enough:  What would have happened if the cop would have just sit tight in the living room instead of going cowboy and rushing the kitchen?  Somebody would be alive...andd you'd have a cop who, though probably shouldn't be a cop would at least have a clean conscience.
> 
> There is no correction necessary. She said he was armed with a knife. The officer drew his pistol because he might have to quickly protect himself. He turned out to be right.    Bulllshit.  That video shows no evidence whatsoever that the guy was going to stab the cop.  He had a knife in his hand.   Did you see the hand rise from his side.  He made no aggressive move. whatsoever.  But you know what is an aggressive move, a guy pointing a gun at you walking briskly towards you and screaming that's he's going to shoot.
> 
> The WARNING from the homeowner that their was an armed man in her house was what he knew. That is plenty of reason to draw his pistol to protect himself.   
> ...


Look pal, you made up your mind.   You want to trust assholes like this be my guest.d  This co0p was totally out of control.  

Again, if he'd have just stayed in the living room somebody would still be alive today...and somebody else wouldn't have to live with what was clearly an unnecessary killing.

----------


## Commissioner

*Cops beat man to death as he begs for life, confiscate witnesses' cell phones*



http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...es-cell-phones


Standard police policy is to confiscate any cell phones within the 21-foot nationally recognized use of force guidelines.

----------

Muninn (01-21-2014)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> I'd sooner take the chance of a couple of nicks with a knife from a teenage kid


Of course you would.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> *Cops beat man to death as he begs for life, confiscate witnesses' cell phones*
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...es-cell-phones
> 
> 
> Standard police policy is to confiscate any cell phones within the 21-foot nationally recognized use of force guidelines.


I take it you don't like to be shown to be wrong. It certainly doesn't bring out the best in you, does it?

----------


## Commissioner

> I take it you don't like to be shown to be wrong. It certainly doesn't bring out the best in you, does it?



What are you talking about?   Not seeing where I was wrong about anything.  The cop in the video was out of control by every measure.  

Oh that's right, you haven't answered why the cop insisted on pressing the issue by charging into the kitchen with gun drawn either, have you?  Instead you keep trying to rationalize the cop's behavior and flawed decision making process.  I wonder if the rationalizing is working any better for him now that he's got somebody's blood on his hands than it is for you tryoing to salvage your law and order narrative?

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> What are you talking about?   Not seeing where I was wrong about anything.


I am sure you don't see it. However that doesn't change the fact that you were very wrong about almost everything.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Look pal, you made up your mind.   You want to trust assholes like this be my guest.d  This co0p was totally out of control.  
> 
> Again, if he'd have just stayed in the living room somebody would still be alive today...and somebody else wouldn't have to live with what was clearly an unnecessary killing.


Hit and runs are accidents. The only person talking about a deadly accident is you.

I'm sure you don't. You don't care about the facts either. 

Or, the teen injured or killed himself in the other room, and then you would be saying that the cop was a dumbass because he was too scared to do anything. It's easy to MMQB.

Sorry, advancing on the officer with a knife in your hand despite verbal orders to stop was a threatening act with deadly force. He forced the shooting. 

That's why the officer was cleared and this matter is over. 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Who told you that you could advance on a police officer with a knife and not get legally shot????

Because, the homeowner said she was worried about him hurting himself. Did you even watch the video? WTF?? 

The situation got worse when the teen advanced with a deadly weapon against an officer with a drawn weapon commanding him to stop. 

He got himself shot. Darwin won this one.

The cop did fine. He did his duty and when the teen decided to advance on him, he gave him fair warning. That's why he's already cleared and back out protecting the community.

You should join up and show those guys how it is done. Why I bet they'll make you an instructor of advanced knife disarming before you even get out of the police academy. 

Trust? I watched the tape. I listened to what the homeowner said and what the officer said. You should try it.

Maybe and maybe not. Maybe the teen would have stabbed himself and hit an artery and died. Then, people like you would be calling the cop a coward for hiding in the living room yada yada yada.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Of course you would.



All in a days work for the internet police. Walk it off.


On a side note, the top pic and the middle pic show why the Roman stabbing sword was actually deadlier than the longer slashing barbarian swords.

----------


## Matalese

Please, he was no teenager. He was 35, and he told the friend that he wasn't going back to prison. It was death by cop!

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Most libertarians regard cops in pretty much this light:


 *<<insult removed>>*

In yet, most, if not all, of the public policies that have been implemented have been tailored to weed out non-white skinned individuals to place the white skinned individuals ahead of them, as the "superior race". That's because most, if not all, of the prior politicians have been racist to the bone. Don't believe me? Look up documented writings from Abraham Lincoln, the very man who is known to abolish slavery. Then, look up minimum wage laws & union/labor laws. Then, once you do that, look at unemployment rates, broken down by ethnic groups. The true picture behind things will begin to become clear.

Now knowing more about this, I'm looking for ways to end that BS. Then, as you look around, you'll begin to see more people embrace free markets, more people embrace libertarianism. Why? Because those are the ONLY two factions that don't see color. Now, please, continue on with your bigotry, I wouldn't want to stop you.

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Libretardians are such childish and permissive little wimps, giving a scumbag the right to threaten a policeman with a knife.  Good riddance to the punk.  There'll be a lot more running loose if we elect sheltered snobs who have no respect for legitimate authorities out on the front line in the war against subhuman criminals.


Funny you go for the insult when no where in my words did I say anything about threatening anyone with a knife is within someones right. Please, do continue making more generalized statements, they're very befitting of you.

----------


## Muninn

> Pooltablerepairman is correct in his analysis here, and he sounds like he has some kind of background in law enforcement in some way, maybe even a military background.


That would make me more skeptical, not less. I don't trust fucking cops one little bit, and they value their little brotherhood over the lives of civilians in every way.

----------


## Muninn

> Funny you go for the insult when no where in my words did I say anything about threatening anyone with a knife is within someones right. Please, do continue making more generalized statements, they're very befitting of you.


But of course, what did you expect? How dare you question the exalted saints of the police force?!

----------


## Trinnity

> Most libertarians regard cops in pretty much this light:


That statement doesn't speak for ME.

----------


## Matalese

Please, please, please, please, please. pretty please put the knives down. knives, plural, as in two knives



with sugar on it






http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...-shooting-coe/

----------


## Matalese

> All in a days work for the internet police. Walk it off.
> 
> 
> On a side note, the top pic and the middle pic show why the Roman stabbing sword was actually deadlier than the longer slashing barbarian swords.




That first picture is gruesome, that looks like a machete doesn't it?

----------


## Matalese

> I am, for now. Someone said amaretto sours are good, so I got me some ameretto and trying it out.
> 
> Recipe
> 1 oz amaretto
> 1 oz vodka
> sour mix
> pineapple juice
> 
> shake and pour over ice. 
> ...



gawd, sweetie I never said to put vodka in it,, better stop at maybe 2!  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 
 @Matalese

*Note from Trinnity: I only had one. Didn't feel like making the effort to make another. Just plain laziness. But it was tasty.


*

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> I didn't pay attention beyond that because I literally don't know how you derived it.
> 
> Are you calling me a white racist? Do you think I'm black and are calling me a black racist? Has it something to do with Black Flag? Who are definitely NOT racist!
> 
> Are you sober tonight?


Whomever you are as a person, be my guest. However, when you make ridiculous generalized statements like that, or insert a picture with the words 'Black Flag', a gun in the persons mouth, and project that this is how 'most libertarians regard cops', I took it as you implying racism.

Looking this picture up, I see what it truly means. What I've learned is don't assume someone knows everything there is, as knowledge is infinite. Thus, unless the person knew who Black Flag was, knew that this was them promoting their record, as a marketing tool, one can perceive the meaning as something else. Of which, put yourself into my shoes of not knowing who Black Flag is. See what you said as far as 'Most libertarians regard cops in pretty much this light', look at the photo, and tell me how you would perceive it.

Then, you'll see why I went in the direction that I did. So, again, I told you on the mistake of making generalized statements, this is where you'll see yourself creating a bigger problem then what it should've been (Case in point, Phil Robertson).

----------


## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

Fair enough.

I just thought that at least the words 'black flag' would point to the well-known black flag of the anarchists [from which the band derived its name], and libertarians ARE a kind of anarchist, after all.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Please, please, please, please, please. pretty please put the knives down. knives, plural, as in two knives
> 
> 
> 
> with sugar on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...







> The officer’s body camera footage shows a tense confrontation between the officer and Johnston, who had just fled a nearby car accident and was inside a friend’s apartment. Mortensen entered the apartment looking for Johnston after learning Johnston was upset and had the knife. In fact, Johnston was holding two knives.
> “Put the knife down, now,” Mortensen said as he pointed his gun at the man. “Put it down. I’m serious. Put the knives down.”
> Mortensen then radioed for help: “I need you in this house right now.”
> Johnston, who was standing in the kitchen, began to walk slowly toward the officer, prompting Mortensen to warn, “I will shoot you.”
> Four more times Mortensen yelled for Johnston to put the knives down as the man continued to walk toward the officer. Then he fired five times from a few feet away, and Johnston crumpled to the floor.
> Mortensen and other officers approached the apartment at 1422 E. Young Ave. shortly before 8 a.m. that Sunday looking for Johnston, who had driven his pickup truck into a utility pole, knocking it over, a half-hour earlier about a block away.
> 
> http://www.spokesman.com/stories/201...-shooting-coe/



Suicide by cop.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Glad to see your true racist feelings are coming out. Don't hide behind someone else to disguise your own true feelings.
> 
> In yet, most, if not all, of the public policies that have been implemented have been tailored to weed out non-white skinned individuals to place the white skinned individuals ahead of them, as the "superior race". That's because most, if not all, of the prior politicians have been racist to the bone. Don't believe me? Look up documented writings from Abraham Lincoln, the very man who is known to abolish slavery. Then, look up minimum wage laws & union/labor laws. Then, once you do that, look at unemployment rates, broken down by ethnic groups. The true picture behind things will begin to become clear.
> 
> Now knowing more about this, I'm looking for ways to end that BS. Then, as you look around, you'll begin to see more people embrace free markets, more people embrace libertarianism. Why? Because those are the ONLY two factions that don't see color. Now, please, continue on with your bigotry, I wouldn't want to stop you.



A lot of people got upset over this free market transaction, or rather the lack of a transaction.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Please, he was no teenager. He was 35, and he told the friend that he wasn't going back to prison. It was death by cop!






> Police released the video footage today. The prosecuting attorney in neighboring Bonner County reviewed an Idaho State Police investigation into the Aug. 25, 2013, shooting and concluded that Johnston, a 35-year-old Dalton Gardens resident, appeared intent on “suicide by cop” and that no charges should be filed against Mortensen
> 
> http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/jan/15/police-release-video-officer-involved-shooting-coe/

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> A lot of people got upset over this free market transaction, or rather the lack of a transaction.


I don't see where they stated they were upset. They admitted that they knew about the $75 annual fee and didn't think it would happen to them. Thus, they knew the consequences of not paying the fee, to get fire fighter service. In which, the fire fighters didn't have any contractual agreement with the folks.

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> 


So, random question, let's say a hypothetical individual had a gun outside of a woman's house. That woman knew the individual and knew they had a gun. If the woman told that individual that someone was in her house, threatening to harm himself with a knife, and that hypothetical individual approached the knife welding individual, shot and killed them after being approached by the individual, do you think no charges would be brought up against the hypothetical individual, if it was later found out that the knife welding individual wanted to commit 'suicide by <insert-name>'?

Not knowing the full extent of such a procedure, I'd imagine that hypothetical individual would be locked up. If the person wanted to get out of jail, they'd either have to post bail, wait for the charges to be dropped, or wait to either be found not-guilty in court. Not only that, even if the individual was found not guilty, the cost to get the individual to that end result would be extensive.

Thus, bringing the whole point of my post full circle, it's about accountability. I'm not here bashing cops, as some folks think this is what it's about. If cops are merely individuals, just like everyone else in this country, then they are to be held to the same standards that we, as US citizens, are to be held to.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> That first picture is gruesome, that looks like a machete doesn't it?


It looks like a photoshop

----------


## Commissioner

*Meet some of Los Angeles's finest.

Amazing, ain't it?  You get these reports of bad behavior by asswipe cops just about every day now.  This one came in this morning from Liberty Digest, which is no doubt one of those subversive lefty or libertarian sites.  Yeah, right.

Man Says Sadistic Cops Shocked Him In The Genitals Until His Flesh Burned*


                     January 22, 2014 by Sam Rolley 




                                                                                                   In December 2012, 26-year-old Daniel Johnson questioned Los  Angeles Sheriff’s deputies about the harsh punishment they threatened  against his disabled father for dropping a cigarette outside his home.  In response, Johnson alleges, the officers asserted their authority by  attacking his genitals.


 In a lawsuit filed against the officers, Johnson claims that his  father was cited for littering moments after the man dropped a cigarette  outside of his home. The younger Johnson approached the officers, named  “Abdulfattah” and “Russell” in the complaint, to ask why his father was  told he faced a $1,000 fine and eight months of community service for  an infraction as small as dropping a cigarette. The young man further  asserted that his 58-year-old father suffers nerve damage to his hand,  which caused him to unintentionally drop the cigarette.
 According to Johnson’s complaint, his assertions were not appreciated by the officers.


 “Deputy Abdulfattah responded by belligerently threatening Mr.  Johnson, telling him that ‘I can write you a ticket too if you want,’”  the Federal lawsuit states.


 After his interaction with the officers, during which the plaintiff  said he didn’t threaten, resist or raise his voice, Johnson turned to go  back into the house at his mother’s request.


 But the police whose authority had been questioned were allegedly  unwilling to allow Johnson, who stands 5 feet 7 inches and weighs 155  pounds, to remove himself from the situation unmolested. The complaint  alleges that the duo grabbed the young man before slamming him into a  squad car and a concrete post.
 Johnson claims that, as the police put their hands on him, he asked  why he was being attacked. His parents also allegedly pleaded with the  officers to “leave him alone” because “he hasn’t done anything wrong.”


 The lawsuit implies that the family’s protestations further angered  the officers, leading Russell to put the younger Johnson in a full  Nelson and Abdulfattah to punch his father in the face — presumably with  a chorus of “stop resisting.” Russell then pulled Johnson to the ground  as Abdulfattah turned his attention, and his Taser, to the young man’s  genitals. After shooting Johnson in the crotch with the Taser barbs,  Abdulfattah allegedly shocked Johnson repeatedly.


http://personalliberty.com/2014/01/2...-flesh-burned/

There's clearly a valuable lesson here for everyone.  When these juiced up junior Kojacks tell you to do something you'd better do it.  No questions asked.  In this case the guy dropped a cigarette.  And that's getting to be about all many of  these jag offs  need to really mess you up.


As they used to say on Hill Street Blues, "Be careful  out there folks."   You can't tell when one of these assholes is going to decide it's time for some fun.

----------


## Matalese

> *Meet some of Los Angeles's finest.
> 
> Amazing, ain't it?  You get these reports of bad behavior by asswipe cops just about every day now.  This one came in this morning from Liberty Digest, which is no doubt one of those subversive lefty or libertarian sites.  Yeah, right.
> 
> Man Says Sadistic Cops Shocked Him In The Genitals Until His Flesh Burned*
> 
> 
>                      January 22, 2014 by Sam Rolley 
> 
> ...




We get it already. You hate cops. How many times to you think you have to tell us?

----------

Perianne (01-22-2014)

----------


## Matalese

> *<<personal attack removed>>*


Don't worry about it. He called me dishonest too, I'm actually "a dishonest jerk" If you don't agree with his hatred for cops you're dishonest.

----------


## Perianne

I really wish this thread would end.  It is an ugly thread.  Please, no one else respond to the taunts, okay?

----------

Trinnity (01-23-2014)

----------


## Commissioner

> We get it already. You hate cops. How many times to you think you have to tell us?


See, there you go again, making judgements on things you don't understand.  

I don't hate cops at all.   In two weeks I'm going down to Florida to play golf with one of my best friends, a retired Illinois state trooper. And by the way he's a lot more pissed off about examples of bad cop behavior than I am.  He's often said, if it weren't for all the assholes abusing their authority this job would be a lot easier for the rest of us.  Yep, heard virtually those exact same words on more than one occasion.

In fact, I appreciate the work they do, and understand it's a very difficult job.

What I don't like is people wqho stick their heads in the sand, scream this all bullshit, and then denigrate the people who have the audacity to put it in their face, interrupting their "flag waving, what we need is more law and order in America" narrative.

As for stopping posting them, how does this work for you:  Let's see if we can go three days in a row without me receiving a single one of these reports from the four or five very conservative sites who have me on their mailing list?  Sound fair, sport?

----------


## Commissioner

> Don't worry about it. He called me dishonest too, I'm actually "a dishonest jerk" If you don't agree with his hatred for cops you're dishonest.


Dishonest would be saying I have come out and said I hate cops...which I don't and which I've said numerous times I appreciate their sacrifice.  It's a really tough job.

All I've done is point out some examples of behavior no decent cop would approve of.

But you and your buddy keep flagellating yourselves in your mutual admoiration society.

Just try to keep the dishonesty about me to a minimum, kay?

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> See, there you go again, making judgements on things you don't understand.  
> 
> I don't hate cops at all.   In two weeks I'm going down to Florida to play golf with one of my best friends, a retired Illinois state trooper. And by the way he's a lot more pissed off about examples of bad cop behavior than I am.  He's often said, if it weren't for all the assholes abusing their authority this job would be a lot easier for the rest of us.  Yep, heard virtually those exact same words on more than one occasion.
> 
> In fact, I appreciate the work they do, and understand it's a very difficult job.
> 
> What I don't like is people wqho stick their heads in the sand, scream this all bullshit, and then denigrate the people who have the audacity to put it in their face, interrupting their "flag waving, what we need is more law and order in America" narrative.
> 
> As for stopping posting them, how does this work for you:  Let's see if we can go three days in a row without me receiving a single one of these reports from the four or five very conservative sites who have me on their mailing list?  Sound fair, sport?


Show your Illinois State Trooper friend the video you just showed us.  I bet his assessment of it will disappoint you.

----------


## Perianne

It's beating a dead horse to even respond anymore.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> It's beating a dead horse to even respond anymore.


LOL. Yet here you are!

----------

Perianne (01-22-2014)

----------


## Perianne

> LOL. Yet here you are!


It's like looking at vomit!!!

----------


## Commissioner

> I really wish this thread would end.  It is an ugly thread.  Please, no one else respond to the taunts, okay?


Would you like people to stop responding to the threads about how bad Obamacare is?  I'm sure there's people who don't like reading about that either.

This is truly  amazing.  I wonder how many threads have been started about peoples' concern for government and mainstream  censorship?

May I ask?  Is it the photos that bother you? or that you just don't like hearing bad things about the police?

But somebody posts readily available examples of police abuse that go against the prevailing conservative narrative and suddenly you have people who forget if their on the right or the left....as well as what's  true and what isn't.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> It's like looking at vomit!!!


It's like a dog returning to its vomit.  I'm sure there's a passage in the book of Proverbs about that.

----------


## Commissioner

> Show your Illinois State Trooper friend the video you just showed us.  I bet his assessment of it will disappoint you.


What video are you talking about?  You mean the story about the LosAngeles Sheriff's Dept.?

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> What video are you talking about?  You mean the story about the LosAngeles Sheriff's Dept.?


I mean the OP video, silly!

----------


## Commissioner

> It's beating a dead horse to even respond anymore.


Brought you two clowns back, didn't it?

Why am I thinking you'll be back again to rationalize tomorrow's contribution to what will now be known as "THE ASSWIPE COP BEHAVIOR" thread?

----------


## Matalese

> See, there you go again, making judgements on things you don't understand.  
> 
> I don't hate cops at all.   In two weeks I'm going down to Florida to play golf with one of my best friends, a retired Illinois state trooper. And by the way he's a lot more pissed off about examples of bad cop behavior than I am.  He's often said, if it weren't for all the assholes abusing their authority this job would be a lot easier for the rest of us.  Yep, heard virtually those exact same words on more than one occasion.
> 
> In fact, I appreciate the work they do, and understand it's a very difficult job.
> 
> What I don't like is people wqho stick their heads in the sand, scream this all bullshit, and then denigrate the people who have the audacity to put it in their face, interrupting their "flag waving, what we need is more law and order in America" narrative.
> 
> *As for stopping posting them, how does this work for you:  Let's see if we can go three days in a row without me receiving a single one of these reports from the four or five very conservative sites who have me on their mailing list?  Sound fair, sport*?



What in the hell are you even talking about? and B. *<<personal attack removed>>*And everything you wrote about this case is erroneous.

----------


## Perianne

> Would you like people to stop responding to the threads about how bad Obamacare is?  I'm sure there's people who don't like reading about that either.
> 
> This is truly  amazing.  I wonder how many threads have been started about peoples' concern for government and mainstream  censorship?
> 
> May I ask?  Is it the photos that bother you? or that you just don't like hearing bad things about the police?
> 
> But somebody posts readily available examples of police abuse that go against the prevailing conservative narrative and suddenly you have people who forget if their on the right or the left....as well as what's  true and what isn't.


 @Commissioner,  you don't know me very well.  I don't like ugly threads where people call each other names and accuse other people of being stupid.

I have dated several cops and find them to be fascinating.  In my ER, when things get out of control, they come and take care of things.  I have no doubt that some cops are brutes, but most of them are good people, IMO.  If someone tries to break into my house, who am I to call when I need help?  You?  Are you going to come help me?  No.  It will be the police who come out, putting their lives on the line to defend me.  That means the world to me, it really does.

There is nothing wrong with you pointing out the bad behavior of a few.  But it has been done over and over and over and over on this board.  At some point, many of us have chosen sides.  I side with the police and give them the benefit of the doubt.

----------

The Sage of Main Street (01-22-2014)

----------


## Commissioner

> I mean the OP video, silly!


Then why didn't you say that?  I'm not the OP, so I didn't have much to do with the OP video.




> Show your Illinois State Trooper friend the video you just showed us.  I bet his assessment of it will disappoint you.


But thanks for the suggestion.  I'll make a point to send the video to him.  Now I'm guessing he's going to ask the same obvious question any intelligent person would:  "Why didn't the cop just stay in the living room and try to talk the guy down rather than charge into the kitchen with gun drawn yelling and screaming?

I'm hoping he can answer why.  Surely no one on this thread has offered a plausible exaplanation.

----------


## Matalese

I think I see a meltdown coming on and it's not mine.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Perianne

> Brought you two clowns back, didn't it?


Clowns.   :Frown:

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> What in the hell are you even talking about? <<personal attack removed>>I didn't write it you did. And everything you wrote about this case is erroneous.


^^^^ This

----------


## Commissioner

You two have fun now.  I got work to do.

And oh, you keep thinking about why that cop had to run into the kitchen gun drawn, okay?

----------


## Matalese

Did those barbed genitals go to the ER to get their picture taken for evidence against the "juiced up Kojacks"?

----------


## Matalese

> You two have fun now.  I got work to do.
> 
> And oh, you keep thinking about why that cop had to run into the kitchen gun drawn, okay?



that's right tuck it and run, The truth shall set you free.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> The cop asked the guy to come out 5 times each time he said "please" he was derelict though because he didn't say "pretty please with sugar on it." Then the cop said "put the knife down, I will shoot you." The guy didn't put the knife down and he kept advancing, it's a tragic but predictable ending.


What's so tragic about getting rid of a punk who would have continued committing crimes if he had lived?  His lack of respect for police showed he had a criminal attitude.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> What's so tragic about getting rid of a punk who would have continued committing crimes if he had lived?  His lack of respect for police showed he had a criminal attitude.


Every suicide is tragic. It is the result of a serious mental breakdown.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Funny you go for the insult when no where in my words did I say anything about threatening anyone with a knife is within someones right. Please, do continue making more generalized statements, they're very befitting of you.


Only stupid people would think you put me in my place with that reply.  Libretardians can have all the stupid people; they'd fit right in at your drooling anti-GUBMINT Kool-Aid party.

----------


## The Sage of Main Street

> Please, please, please, please, please. pretty please put the knives down. knives, plural, as in two knives
> 
> 
> 
> with sugar on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Once we get the Libretardians in control of the police force, cops will be required to say to anyone who threatens them, "Hey, it's _your_ knife.  You paid for it with your own money.  Who am I to tell you what to do with your own property?"

  No agent of the GUBMINT should have the right to defend himself!  That's *Statist*!!!  The next thing you know, we'll have cops confiscaing all knives, forks, and spoons and we'll have to eat with our hands!

----------


## Perianne

> ...we'll have to eat with our hands!


And you don't now?  I do.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> *<<personal attack removed>>*


you are one angry dude.  I guess the right cannot use the Whomever word now.  We'll just call it the W-word.  kay?

Funny you should use the term 
'refudiate'.  Look what happened to Sarah Palin when she used it.   Are you a Sarah Palin fan?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...mpares-he.html

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> *<<trolling removed>>*


Maybe you should. No sarcasm included.

----------


## Commissioner

> @Commissioner,  you don't know me very well.  I don't like ugly threads where people call each other names and accuse other people of being stupid.  
> 
> I have dated several cops and find them to be fascinating.  In my ER, when things get out of control, they come and take care of things.  I have no doubt that some cops are brutes, but most of them are good people, IMO.  If someone tries to break into my house, who am I to call when I need help?  You?  Are you going to come help me?  No.  It will be the police who come out, putting their lives on the line to defend me.  That means the world to me, it really does.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with you pointing out the bad behavior of a few.  But it has been done over and over and over and over on this board.  At some point, many of us have chosen sides.  I side with the police and give them the benefit of the doubt.


That's good.  Side with who you want.  I think policing is a noble profession myself.

By the way, a lot of people are tired of hearing about the failures of Obamacare.  They've chosen sides.  Are you also suggesting all of the Obamacare threads be shut down?

A couple of other things, I hope you're not limiting the "calling people stupid" to just me.  Because if you are you need to just go back a page or two.

Very early on in this thread a bunch of folks started with the "Oh look, another I hate cops threads" line of BS.   Shortly thereafter the name calling started.  For some reason they can't just pass over these threads, however.  Instead, they jump right in there to denigrate anyone who says anything bad about cops and diminishes these reports of abuse to being insignificant.  I can only guess why thesy find these reports so threatening to them.  

See where I'm going here?

That said...


*TheDC’s Dirty Dozen: 12 SHOCKING police abuse stories of 2013*

http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/26/th...ories-of-2013/

If you have a problem dealing with the problem, please feel free to move on, or , in other words,  stick your head in the sand.  Don't cost nothing.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> *<<trolling removed>>*


you feel no such thing. Do you sing?  you have a bad attitude.  What has happened to you..  Something has.  Wanna tell us about it.  Family problem?  do you feel you've been discriminated against.  Has life dealt you a blow?

----------

Gerrard Winstanley (01-22-2014)

----------


## Commissioner

> Let's meander through this latest spiel against cops. Look at the words I bolded. Nice, Yep,  *<<personal attack removed>>*


Of course this could never have happened.  Police abuse never happenhs does it?

Now I forget, are you the guy who claims to train police in police self defense tactics, but was never a cop?  or was that the other guy?


The use of the word "allegedly" in an article proves my hated for cops?   Who was it again  that was having a problem with calling people "stupid" here?
LMFAO

----------


## Commissioner

Check this one out.  Cops with a sense of humor.


*Police force black men to act like chimps, film it*http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/18/po...#ixzz2oKHQfxlp

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Of course this could never have happened.  Police abuse never happenhs does it?
> 
> LMFAO


Who said it never happens... other than you?

Not counting Federal agencies, there are 18,000 (municipal, county, and state) law enforcement agencies in the United States. 12,501 of those agencies are municipal and employ over 461,000 cops (2008 figures).

Do you really think the incidents you report here (most of which have been nothing more than accusation still under investigation) are representative of those 461,000+ law enforcement officers patrolling the streets of this nation?

----------


## Commissioner

> They are photos of knife attacks. I never said they were from "police work", as if that is somehow relevant.
> .


That's good that you didn't say that these were cops.   A lot of cops would probably have really been pissed off if you made them look that stupid to get cut up like that after all their training and all.

Too bad nobody told these poor schmucks cut up in the photos about the standard, nationally recognized 21-foot safety area for use of force guidelines you told us all about earlier.

By the way, pool boy,  if this 21-foot standard is nationally recognized it should be readily available on the web, right? Why don't you throw up a link to it.  Serioulsy, I find that kind of stuff is real interesting.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> That's good that you didn't say that these were cops.   A lot of cops would probably have really pissed off if you made them look that stupid to get cut up like that after all their training and all.


Clueless.

----------


## Commissioner

> Who said it never happens... other than you?


God save us!  I was being facetious, Einstein.

But when did I say police abuse never happens?   You're the one on that side of the debate.  Don't make me remind you again.

Again, who was it who was having such a big problem with calling people "stupid" here

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> That's good that you didn't say that these were cops.   A lot of cops would probably have really been pissed off if you made them look that stupid to get cut up like that after all their training and all.
> 
> Too bad nobody told these poor schmucks cut up in the photos about the standard, nationally recognized 21-foot safety area for use of force guidelines you told us all about earlier.
> 
> By the way, pool boy,  if this 21-foot standard is nationally recognized it should be readily available on the web, right? Why don't you throw up a link to it.  Serioulsy, I find that kind of stuff is real interesting.


Just look up the 21 foot rule.

If you want personal instruction, send me a message off the open forum and we will discuss my fees.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

Did you quote yourself so you would know what you said earlier?

Do you often have to do that?

----------


## Matalese

> Did you quote yourself so you would know what you said earlier?
> 
> Do you often have to do that?


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Of course this could never have happened.  Police abuse never happenhs does it?
> 
> Now I forget, are you the guy who claims to train police in police self defense tactics, but was never a cop?  or was that the other guy?
> 
> 
> The use of the word "allegedly" in an article proves my hated for cops?   Who was it again  that was having a problem with calling people "stupid" here?
> LMFAO


I thought you were going off to work.

----------


## Mr smitty smith

no your wrong there yes the man continued and didn't put his weapon but a stun gun could have handled it just fine or maybe just fire on shot to leg there was no right at all in this shooting to where the officer had to unload 5 shots to a man who only weapon was a knife

----------

Trinnity (01-23-2014)

----------


## Matalese

> no your wrong there yes the man continued and didn't put his weapon but a stun gun could have handled it just fine or maybe just fire on shot to leg there was no right at all in this shooting to where the officer had to unload 5 shots to a man who only weapon was a knife


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Now I forget, are you the guy who claims to train police in police self defense tactics, but was never a cop?  or was that the other guy?


I realize you were not responding to me, but I have not seen anyone make that claim here. Can you provide a quote?

----------


## Matalese

What does an armchair quarterback make?

----------


## Irascible Crusader

Funny that there are so many morons who know nothing of police procedure nor the rules of escalation of force, but they're so sure they know what the cop should have done.  I've never seen so many people proudly announce what morons they are.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

It would be amusing to see some of their reactions if they had to face an assailant armed with a knife.

----------


## Muninn

> Every suicide is tragic. It is the result of a serious mental breakdown.


Bullshit. Suicide is often the response to a shitty situation that cannot be fixed. It is beyond ignorant to assume that mental illness or a breakdown is responsible for all suicides. Some, sure, but not all or even most.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Bullshit. Suicide is often the response to a shitty situation that cannot be fixed. It is beyond ignorant to assume that mental illness or a breakdown is responsible for all suicides. Some, sure, but not all or even most.


Um.....no to all that.  Suicide results from mental impairment because the person is temporarily under the false impression that their situation cannot be resolve any other way.  In clinical terms, this is called delusional or a departure from reality.  Don't talk to me about ignorance. You're swimming in it.

----------


## Muninn

> Um.....no to all that.  Suicide results from mental impairment because the person is temporarily under the false impression that their situation cannot be resolve any other way.  In clinical terms, this is called delusional or a departure from reality.  Don't talk to me about ignorance. You're swimming in it.


LOL, spoken like someone who has never truly suffered in life. Must be great to live a charmed existence. The rest of us, however, know just how wrong you are.

----------


## Old Ridge Runner

> no your wrong there yes the man continued and didn't put his weapon but a stun gun could have handled it just fine or maybe just fire on shot to leg there was no right at all in this shooting to where the officer had to unload 5 shots to a man who only weapon was a knife


OK guys, I would like to introduce one of my favorite people in the world, one of my three grandsons.  He is just beginning in his career of posting in the board wars.  

Smitty, first off, the officer did not have a choice.  I counted at least six times the officer told the guy to put the knife down and the guy did not listen to the officer.  The officer also had at least one family member trying to butt in to the situation which could have cost the officer a sever wounding or his life if he had been distracted.  I could not tell but apparently the person with the knife went for the officer causing him to shoot. The one thing that I am a firm believe in is the right to carry, you know that.  I believe if you pull a gun you better use it and if you used it, fire as many shots as it takes to put the person down and stop that person from getting up and coming at you.

MoFo

----------

Trinnity (01-23-2014)

----------


## Perianne

> OK guys, I would like to introduce one of my favorite people in the world, one of my three grandsons.  He is just beginning in his career of posting in the board wars.


Welcome to your grandson.  Does he call you "mofo"?

----------

Trinnity (01-23-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

> So, random question, let's say a hypothetical individual had a gun outside of a woman's house. That woman knew the individual and knew they had a gun. If the woman told that individual that someone was in her house, threatening to harm himself with a knife, and that hypothetical individual approached the knife welding individual, shot and killed them after being approached by the individual, do you think no charges would be brought up against the hypothetical individual, if it was later found out that the knife welding individual wanted to commit 'suicide by <insert-name>'?
> 
> Not knowing the full extent of such a procedure, I'd imagine that hypothetical individual would be locked up. If the person wanted to get out of jail, they'd either have to post bail, wait for the charges to be dropped, or wait to either be found not-guilty in court. Not only that, even if the individual was found not guilty, the cost to get the individual to that end result would be extensive.
> 
> Thus, bringing the whole point of my post full circle, it's about accountability. I'm not here bashing cops, as some folks think this is what it's about. If cops are merely individuals, just like everyone else in this country, then they are to be held to the same standards that we, as US citizens, are to be held to.


Why would a CCW holder get charged with anything for trying to talk to a suicidal man who then assaulted him with a knife? It doesn't make any sense. 

I think the idea of a double standard drives you guys crazy, but in this case, it is an illusion. 

Police and citizens have a right to self defense. The difference is that the police have the duty to interject themselves into violent situations and they do not have to retreat.

----------


## Commissioner

> I thought you were going off to work.


I had finished.

Were you waiting here the whole time?

----------


## Commissioner

> no your wrong there yes the man continued and didn't put his weapon but a stun gun could have handled it just fine or maybe just fire on shot to leg there was no right at all in this shooting to where the officer had to unload 5 shots to a man who only weapon was a knife


Great point.  Though I wouldn't count on anyone responding to this much beyond a laughing smiley.  That's really about all they have.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> I had finished.
> 
> Were you waiting here the whole time?


I'm taking some paternal leave right now.  We just had a baby.

----------


## Commissioner

> I'm taking some paternal leave right now.  We just had a baby.


Congratulations.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-22-2014)

----------


## Commissioner

Perhaps this will explain why people aren't buying the excuses any more for bad cop behavior.

*Police-beating verdict cause for deep cynicism*http://www.humanevents.com/2014/01/22/police-beating-verdict-cause-for-deep-cynicism/

But gee, maybe we should just forget about it?  How often does it really happen anyways? And as long as you're not on the receiving end of this crap who really cares?

----------


## Matalese

Gee Ya think? We're still not convinced.

----------


## Matalese

:Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Matalese

> It would be amusing to see some of their reactions if they had to face an assailant armed with a knife.


They'd be shittin they drawers.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-22-2014)

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Gee Ya think? We're still not convinced.


I'm beginning to wonder what run-in Commissioner had with cops.  He seems very passionate about convincing us they're all assholes when called upon to use force.  He's at a pitch with this and it's making me wonder what traumatic event spawned his current state of mind.

----------


## Commissioner

> Originally Posted by *Pooltablerepairman*  
> 
>                  It would be amusing to see some of their reactions if they had to face an assailant armed with a knife.





> They'd be shittin they drawers.


You two really deserve your own theme song.  This seems to work well for you.  What'cha think?

----------


## Muninn

> I'm beginning to wonder what run-in Commissioner had with cops.  He seems very passionate about convincing us they're all assholes when called upon to use force.  He's at a pitch with this and it's making me wonder what traumatic event spawned his current state of mind.


Probably unwarranted abuse of some sort by cops, like so many other people. Of course, I guess you haven't experienced that either. Wow, I really wish I lived a life half as charmed as yours.

----------


## Matalese

> Probably unwarranted abuse of some sort by cops, like so many other people. Of course, I guess you haven't experienced that either. Wow, I really wish I lived a life half as charmed as yours.



That's a fact. Most of us spend our entire lives never being in contact with or harassed by a cop. It's called being a law abiding citizen. Not like the one in the original op that started this deliriously funny thread. Peridanne is the sharpest tack in the box, she told us to stop responding 500 posts ago.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:  :Thinking:

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Probably unwarranted abuse of some sort by cops, like so many other people. Of course, I guess you haven't experienced that either. Wow, I really wish I lived a life half as charmed as yours.


Funny how the perpetrator (clearly meaning you) always thinks that the force police use is "unwarranted".  It's kinda long the same line as people in prison saying they're innocent and were persecuted.  It's a juvenile refusal to own up to one's actions and I could wax loquacious with examples.

----------


## Muninn

> That's a fact. Most of us spend our entire lives never being in contact with or harassed by a cop. It's called being a law abiding citizen. Not like the one in the original op that started this deliriously funny thread. Peridanne is the sharpest tack in the box, she told us to stop responding 500 posts ago.


You're a fool if you think being a law abiding citizen is a guarantee you'll never get in trouble with the law. Very, very naive as well. 





> Funny how the perpetrator (clearly meaning you) always thinks that the force police use is "unwarranted".  It's kinda long the same line as people in prison saying they're innocent and were persecuted.  It's a juvenile refusal to own up to one's actions and I could wax loquacious with examples.


And likewise, you're a fool if you don't think that innocent people go to jail. With our for-profit justice system, it's quite easy to go to prison for a "crime" you didn't even know happened. But then again, you believe suicide is always a product of mental illness so my expectations regarding your cognitive reasoning are very low.

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

If you aren't a law abiding citizen, you are better off being a cop. 
http://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/...hild-predator/

After all, you can get away with anything, and most people will call you a hero and necessary to society.

----------

Muninn (01-22-2014)

----------


## Matalese

Well slap me silly and call me a fool, I've lived a long law abiding life and never once been harassed by a cop, youse people should give it a try.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-22-2014)

----------


## Muninn

> Well slap me silly and call me a fool, I've lived a long law abiding life and never once been harassed by a cop, youse people should give it a try.


Pure luck. I served a year in jail and have still yet to commit my first crime. I guess some people get all the breaks.

----------


## Matalese

> Pure luck. I served a year in jail and have still yet to commit my first crime. I guess some people get all the breaks.



that's your word,, huh? and yer sticking to it..

----------


## Commissioner

> I'm beginning to wonder what run-in Commissioner had with cops.  He seems very passionate about convincing us they're all assholes when called upon to use force.  He's at a pitch with this and it's making me wonder what traumatic event spawned his current state of mind.


Again, I've never said all cops are  assholes.  Other people have been saying that about me.  And now you are as well.  But perhaps you'd be better to look at what I post instead of others' opinions, or projecting your own thoughts on what you think I think.

Being a cop is a  tough job.  It's also dangerous.   Nobody is questioning what the good cops are worth or that most of them are decent guys doing the best they can in a really tough job.  IS every incident of police abuse warranted?  Not hardly.

But they're also human.  Some of them simply don't have the temperament for the job.  There's also cops that don't get the training they should.  And, whether some people care to admit it or not, there's a good number bad people out there who become cops for wrong reasons, namely because they understand it's a great place to abuse authority.  Some of them have been bullying people all their lives and  have no intention of giving that up as adults.  Others  got pushed around most of their lives and look at the job as a good way to get back at people.


As for me actually seeing some crappy behavior out of cops.  Yeah I've seen it firsthand on a number of occasions.  Who the hell hasn't seen a cop overstep his authority at one time or another?  Have you listened to the language some of these assholes use in these videos?  Are you telling me that's professional behavior?  Is that the language and the posturing you want to see when one of them confronts you?  your kids?  And after seeing that posturing and hearing that language are you really surprised that bad things start to happen when people come in cotnact with these turds?  How would you like some of the cops in these videos to pull you over on a slow night? or pull over your teenager?  At any rate I've never had an experience with cops that affected me all that much.  But that's not saying I've never seen them out of control, because I have.  And I can remember one 90 degree night at Comiskey Park when the off-duty cops serving as security went literally bonkers beating the living crap out of people for virtually no other reason than they, the cops, were having a bad night.

A couple of  clowns here got their panties in a wad because I pointed out actual instances of bad-cop behavior.  By doing so they now  insist  I'm somehow condemning everyone who ever  worked in law  enforcement.  Believe that if you want.  Or you could try thinking for yourself instead of going with the herd.  Just like you can review all the video evidence and continuous news reports of police abuse and come to your own conclusion.  Or you couild just go with the other assholes and say it's better to sweep all of it under the rug...and hope it never happens to you or your kids.

----------


## Commissioner

> that's your word,, huh? and yer sticking to it..


What you don't believe him?   But somebody shows you video after video of cops beating the crap out of people for no reason and you're willing to believe bad-cop behavior is no problem whatsoever.

BTW, I think it's good that most of your posts are one liners. Anything more would be a bit much to take.

----------


## Commissioner

> You need to just own up. You started a whole damn thread about an OP from a hate cops site that you didn't even check out as factual. And then you did it again. You hate cops.


Sorry the facts upset  you so much pumpkin.  But like I said, once we go three days with none of these stories we'll call an end to it.  In the meantime it's easy enough to keep posting hem.

----------


## Commissioner

> Originally Posted by *Irascible Crusader*  
> 
>                  I'm beginning to wonder what run-in  Commissioner had with cops.  He seems very passionate about convincing  us they're all assholes when called upon to use force.  He's at a pitch  with this and it's making me wonder what traumatic event spawned his  current state of mind.






> Again, I've never said all cops are  assholes.  Other people have been saying that about me.  And now you are as well.  But perhaps you'd be better to look at what I post instead of others' opinions, or projecting your own thoughts on what you think I think.
> 
> Being a cop is a  tough job.  It's also dangerous.   Nobody is questioning what the good cops are worth or that most of them are decent guys doing the best they can in a really tough job.  IS every incident of police abuse warranted?  Not hardly.
> 
> But they're also human.  Some of them simply don't have the temperament for the job.  There's also cops that don't get the training they should.  And, whether some people care to admit it or not, there's a good number bad people out there who become cops for wrong reasons, namely because they understand it's a great place to abuse authority.  Some of them have been bullying people all their lives and  have no intention of giving that up as adults.  Others  got pushed around most of their lives and look at the job as a good way to get back at people.
> 
> 
> As for me actually seeing some crappy behavior out of cops.  Yeah I've seen it firsthand on a number of occasions.  Who the hell hasn't seen a cop overstep his authority at one time or another?  Have you listened to the language some of these assholes use in these videos?  Are you telling me that's professional behavior?  Is that the language and the posturing you want to see when one of them confronts you?  your kids?  And after seeing that posturing and hearing that language are you really surprised that bad things start to happen when people come in cotnact with these turds?  How would you like some of the cops in these videos to pull you over on a slow night? or pull over your teenager?  At any rate I've never had an experience with cops that affected me all that much.  But that's not saying I've never seen them out of control, because I have.  And I can remember one 90 degree night at Comiskey Park when the off-duty cops serving as security went literally bonkers beating the living crap out of people for virtually no other reason than they, the cops, were having a bad night.
> 
> A couple of  clowns here got their panties in a wad because I pointed out actual instances of bad-cop behavior.  By doing so they now  insist  I'm somehow condemning everyone who ever  worked in law  enforcement.  Believe that if you want.  Or you could try thinking for yourself instead of going with the herd.  Just like you can review all the video evidence and continuous news reports of police abuse and come to your own conclusion.  Or you couild just go with the other assholes and say it's better to sweep all of it under the rug...and hope it never happens to you or your kids.

----------


## Muninn

> that's your word,, huh? and yer sticking to it..


Yep

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

Here is part of the problem. You accused a police officer who was involved in a fatal shooting of being some trigger happy psychopath who just gunned down a poor, confused teenager. Of course, you were completely wrong about what transpired. The "victim" wasn't a teenager. He was a 35 year old man. He was armed with not one, but TWO knives. The officer involved acted in accordance with established police procedure and doctrine. He was cleared of any wrongdoing, yet you STILL try to portray him as some kind of sociopath who went into that house with a "_shoot first, ask questions later_" attitude. 

When your errors have been pointed out to you, you not only refused to acknowledge them, you proceeded to launch personal attacks against those, including myself, who pointed them out to you.

The way you have conducted yourself on this thread is the reason people have been responding to you as they have... and deservedly so.

----------


## Matalese

> What you don't believe him?   But somebody shows you video after video of cops beating the crap out of people for no reason and you're willing to believe bad-cop behavior is no problem whatsoever.
> 
> BTW, I think it's good that most of your posts are one liners. Anything more would be a bit much to take.



Can you find the ignore button or do you need a mod to show it to you?

----------


## Commissioner

> Here is part of the problem. You accused a police officer who was involved in a fatal shooting of being some trigger happy psychopath who just gunned down a poor, confused teenager. Of course, you were completely wrong about what transpired. The "victim" wasn't a teenager. He was a 35 year old man. He was armed with not one, but TWO knives. The officer involved acted in accordance with established police procedure and doctrine. He was cleared of any wrongdoing, yet you STILL try to portray him as some kind of sociopath who went into that house with a "_shoot first, ask questions later_" attitude. 
> 
> When your errors have been pointed out to you, you not only refused to acknowledge them, you proceeded to launch personal attacks against those, including myself, who pointed them out to you.
> 
> The way you have conducted yourself on this thread is the reason people have been responding to you as they have... and deservedly so.


This is precious.   Please, show me where I called anyone a trigger happy psychopath.

Let's just start with that lie, shall we?

----------


## Matalese

> If I missed calling you a fool, believe me on this, it was an oversight.
> 
> As for slapping you silly, I suggest you go find one of these fucked up asshole cops from the videos.





poor poor unattended male.

----------


## Commissioner

And yet still no explanation for why the cop had to go charging into the kitchen--with no onw in imminent danger--with his gun drawn and screaming and yelling.

----------


## Commissioner

> Thank you for your candor.


  Originally Posted by *Commissioner*  
 				Again, I've never said all cops are  assholes.   Other people have been saying that about me.  And now you are as well.   But perhaps you'd be better to look at what I post instead of others'  opinions, or projecting your own thoughts on what you think I think.

Being a cop is a  tough job.  It's also dangerous.   Nobody is  questioning what the good cops are worth or that most of them are decent  guys doing the best they can in a really tough job.  IS every incident  of police abuse warranted?  Not hardly.

But they're also human.  Some of them simply don't have the temperament  for the job.  There's also cops that don't get the training they should.   And, whether some people care to admit it or not, there's a good  number bad people out there who become cops for wrong reasons, namely  because they understand it's a great place to abuse authority.  Some of  them have been bullying people all their lives and  have no intention of  giving that up as adults.  Others  got pushed around most of their  lives and look at the job as a good way to get back at people.


As for me actually seeing some crappy behavior out of cops.  Yeah I've  seen it firsthand on a number of occasions.  Who the hell hasn't seen a  cop overstep his authority at one time or another?  Have you listened to  the language some of these assholes use in these videos?  Are you  telling me that's professional behavior?  Is that the language and the  posturing you want to see when one of them confronts you?  your kids?   And after seeing that posturing and hearing that language are you really  surprised that bad things start to happen when people come in cotnact  with these turds?  How would you like some of the cops in these videos  to pull you over on a slow night? or pull over your teenager?  At any  rate I've never had an experience with cops that affected me all that  much.  But that's not saying I've never seen them out of control,  because I have.  And I can remember one 90 degree night at Comiskey Park  when the off-duty cops serving as security went literally bonkers  beating the living crap out of people for virtually no other reason than  they, the cops, were having a bad night.

A couple of  clowns here got their panties in a wad because I pointed  out actual instances of bad-cop behavior.  By doing so they now  insist   I'm somehow condemning everyone who ever  worked in law  enforcement.   Believe that if you want.  Or you could try thinking for yourself  instead of going with the herd.  Just like you can review all the video  evidence and continuous news reports of police abuse and come to your  own conclusion.  Or you couild just go with the other assholes and say  it's better to sweep all of it under the rug...and hope it never happens  to you or your kids.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

Y'all need to stop with the personal insults before  @Trinnity comes in here and starts slapping people.

----------

Perianne (01-22-2014)

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Originally Posted by *Commissioner*  
>  				Again, I've never said all cops are  assholes.   Other people have been saying that about me.  And now you are as well.   But perhaps you'd be better to look at what I post instead of others'  opinions, or projecting your own thoughts on what you think I think.
> 
> Being a cop is a  tough job.  It's also dangerous.   Nobody is  questioning what the good cops are worth or that most of them are decent  guys doing the best they can in a really tough job.  IS every incident  of police abuse warranted?  Not hardly.
> 
> But they're also human.  Some of them simply don't have the temperament  for the job.  There's also cops that don't get the training they should.   And, whether some people care to admit it or not, there's a good  number bad people out there who become cops for wrong reasons, namely  because they understand it's a great place to abuse authority.  Some of  them have been bullying people all their lives and  have no intention of  giving that up as adults.  Others  got pushed around most of their  lives and look at the job as a good way to get back at people.
> 
> 
> As for me actually seeing some crappy behavior out of cops.  Yeah I've  seen it firsthand on a number of occasions.  Who the hell hasn't seen a  cop overstep his authority at one time or another?  Have you listened to  the language some of these assholes use in these videos?  Are you  telling me that's professional behavior?  Is that the language and the  posturing you want to see when one of them confronts you?  your kids?   And after seeing that posturing and hearing that language are you really  surprised that bad things start to happen when people come in cotnact  with these turds?  How would you like some of the cops in these videos  to pull you over on a slow night? or pull over your teenager?  At any  rate I've never had an experience with cops that affected me all that  much.  But that's not saying I've never seen them out of control,  because I have.  And I can remember one 90 degree night at Comiskey Park  when the off-duty cops serving as security went literally bonkers  beating the living crap out of people for virtually no other reason than  they, the cops, were having a bad night.
> ...


You think I've mischaracterized you? I haven't mischaracterized you. I said you want us to believe all cops are assholes every time they use force.  I've seen this enough times to seize upon the reliable trend. You cop haters moan every time a cop uses force and you make a victim out of the aggressive suspect. No matter how justified the force is in the minds of reasonable, rational (as in, not you) people, you make the cop out to be the face of the police state.  I haven't mischaracterized you, I've nailed you succinctly.  Live with it.

----------


## Commissioner

> Here is part of the problem. You accused a police officer who was involved in a fatal shooting of being some trigger happy psychopath who just gunned down a poor, confused teenager. Of course, you were completely wrong about what transpired. The "victim" wasn't a teenager. He was a 35 year old man. He was armed with not one, but TWO knives. The officer involved acted in accordance with established police procedure and doctrine. He was cleared of any wrongdoing, yet you STILL try to portray him as some kind of sociopath who went into that house with a "_shoot first, ask questions later_" attitude. 
> 
> When your errors have been pointed out to you, you not only refused to acknowledge them, you proceeded to launch personal attacks against those, including myself, who pointed them out to you.
> 
> The way you have conducted yourself on this thread is the reason people have been responding to you as they have... and deservedly so.


Let's move on since you're having trouble finding anything to back up your assertion I called this unqualified punk in the video a trigger happy psychopath.

Okay, not sure where I picked up the guy was a teenager,  Onb the other hand, it really doesn't make any diffference.  

That this cop had other options is undeniable.  Starting with him tazing the guy.  One thing is certain, there was no reason for him to rtun into that kitchen with his gun drawn.  At that point the only person who could possibly be considered in danger was the guy in the kitchen.

What the fuck is the difference whether the guy had one knife or two?   Oh wait, I'm sure your vast experience, njot as a cop, but trianing them, is going to fill in that blkank, right?

----------


## Muninn

> Thank you for your candor.


You're welcome

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> This is precious.   Please, show me where I called anyone a trigger happy psychopath.
> 
> Let's just start with that lie, shall we?


Let's not do a Clinton and try top parse words here. I am assuming you are an adult, so I am trying to address you as one.

You stated clearly that you believed the officer involved entered the house with the use of deadly force on his mind as his first option in dealing with the situation presented. Are you denying that? 

Now, in my neck of the woods, we would consider anyone who takes a _shoot first, ask questions later_ approach to dealing with an EDP to be a trigger happy psychopath. If you thought otherwise, feel free to correct me. After you do that, you can go ahead and address all the other factual errors you made and accuse me of lying about those, as well.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> And yet still no explanation for why the cop had to go charging into the kitchen--with no onw in imminent danger--with his gun drawn and screaming and yelling.


He didn't.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> I'm still waiting on the trigger happy psychopath, pool boy.  You working on that?
> 
> I did say he made some fucked up decisions, and that he probably wasn't cut out for police work.  But trigger happy psychopath, you may want to call that search off, sport...and just admit your projecting BS that ain't there now and never was.


You have referred to me as "pool boy" multiple times now. In case you are having difficulty with all the letters being connected and forming one really big word, my username is pool table repairman. It is not pool boy. The name pool table repairman actually has a good deal of significance, although I would not expect you to understand it even if I explained it to you. Since I have never referred to you as Dumb Shit instead of Commissioner, I shall expect you get my username correct in the future.

----------

Trinnity (01-23-2014)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Originally Posted by *Commissioner*  
>                  Again, I've never said all cops are  assholes.   Other people have been saying that about me.  And now you are as well.   But perhaps you'd be better to look at what I post instead of others'  opinions, or projecting your own thoughts on what you think I think.
> 
> Being a cop is a  tough job.  It's also dangerous.   Nobody is  questioning what the good cops are worth or that most of them are decent  guys doing the best they can in a really tough job.  IS every incident  of police abuse warranted?  Not hardly.
> 
> But they're also human.  Some of them simply don't have the temperament  for the job.  There's also cops that don't get the training they should.   And, whether some people care to admit it or not, there's a good  number bad people out there who become cops for wrong reasons, namely  because they understand it's a great place to abuse authority.  Some of  them have been bullying people all their lives and  have no intention of  giving that up as adults.  Others  got pushed around most of their  lives and look at the job as a good way to get back at people.
> 
> 
> As for me actually seeing some crappy behavior out of cops.  Yeah I've  seen it firsthand on a number of occasions.  Who the hell hasn't seen a  cop overstep his authority at one time or another?  Have you listened to  the language some of these assholes use in these videos?  Are you  telling me that's professional behavior?  Is that the language and the  posturing you want to see when one of them confronts you?  your kids?   And after seeing that posturing and hearing that language are you really  surprised that bad things start to happen when people come in cotnact  with these turds?  How would you like some of the cops in these videos  to pull you over on a slow night? or pull over your teenager?  At any  rate I've never had an experience with cops that affected me all that  much.  But that's not saying I've never seen them out of control,  because I have.  And I can remember one 90 degree night at Comiskey Park  when the off-duty cops serving as security went literally bonkers  beating the living crap out of people for virtually no other reason than  they, the cops, were having a bad night.
> ...


I don't think I have ever, in all my years on internet forums, seen anyone quote himself as often as you do.

I am thinking you have issues.

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-22-2014)

----------


## Trinnity

This thread is closed til I can go through it and clean up the fighting.

----------


## Trinnity

> Libretardians are such childish and permissive little wimps, giving a scumbag the right to threaten a policeman with a knife.  Good riddance to the punk.  There'll be a lot more running loose if we elect sheltered snobs who have no respect for legitimate authorities out on the front line in the war against subhuman criminals.


You have the wrong idea about libertarians. Posers and brats like you're referring to are NOT libertarians.
 @The Sage of Main Street

----------


## Trinnity

> Fair enough.
> 
> I just thought that at least the words 'black flag' would point to the well-known black flag of the anarchists [from which the band derived its name], and libertarians ARE a kind of anarchist, after all.


NO we are NOT. We are for limited govt, govt limited to the bounds of the Constitution. Any libertarian who thinks they're "kind of an anarchist" is either stupid or not a real libertarian; iow, lying about their political orientation.

----------


## Trinnity

> Y'all need to stop with the personal insults before  @Trinnity comes in here and starts slapping people.


*Oh, I'd say it's a bit too late for that. I started dealing with this clusterfuck at 7:49pm yesterday and it's now 4:13am, and this has deprived me of a night's sleep. I've been cleaning up this mess on and off for 8 hours now, and within that time I managed to cook a quick dinner and pick my son up from work. Now. I have never EVER seen a mess like this in the 14 months this site has been running. I'm on my second pot of coffee and I am NOT a happy camper. Mark my words, I'm ashamed of you who were BAD and you know who you are.

Several people have been thread banned and I've issued dozens of warnings and a few infractions. Those of you who caused me 8 hours of work are damned lucky I'm such a sweetheart or you surely would have been banned for several days or permanently. 

I am going to re-open this thread now, and if I see ONE more personal attack, trolling/flamebaiting, name calling OR anything else that requires my attention (and I WILL be watching) I will set off a nuclear bomb in somebody's lap. Make no mistake about it, someone is gonna get my stiletto thigh high boot straight up their ass if I'm inconvenienced here again.

*

----------

Perianne (01-23-2014)

----------


## Old Ridge Runner

> Welcome to your grandson.  Does he call you "mofo"?


No, he calls me pap.

MoFo

----------


## Old Ridge Runner

> Let's move on since you're having trouble finding anything to back up your assertion I called this unqualified punk in the video a trigger happy psychopath.
> 
> Okay, not sure where I picked up the guy was a teenager,  Onb the other hand, it really doesn't make any diffference.  
> 
> That this cop had other options is undeniable.  Starting with him tazing the guy.  One thing is certain, there was no reason for him to rtun into that kitchen with his gun drawn.  At that point the only person who could possibly be considered in danger was the guy in the kitchen.
> 
> What the fuck is the difference whether the guy had one knife or two?   Oh wait, I'm sure your vast experience, njot as a cop, but trianing them, is going to fill in that blkank, right?


Perhaps he didn't have a tazer to use instead of his service weapon.  He had his service weapon drawn because he might have to protect himself against a person with a knife.  It is reasonable to see that the officer would draw his weapon as he might not have time to draw it to defend himself once he confronts the person with the knife.  Last year our neighbor left the their house with the door wide open.  When I saw it I went to the door and called in.  When i didn't get an answer I called the police because you could see the neighbor's gun cabinet from the doorway.  When the police officer arrived he called in through the door several times before entering and than before he entered the house he drew his service weapon.  Police do have a right to protect themselves and part of their job is to confront irrational people.  So I for one do not blame the officer for having his service weapon drawn when he confronted this irrational person.

MoFo

----------

Perianne (01-23-2014)

----------


## Libertarian ForOur Future

> Fair enough.
> 
> I just thought that at least the words 'black flag' would point to the well-known black flag of the anarchists [from which the band derived its name], and libertarians ARE a kind of anarchist, after all.


Apparently I know very little of anarchism as that's not known to me (Black Flag that is). Whether this is true or not, is a moot point. My views are aligned as a voluntary-statist. I believe government has a role, but I believe it should be voluntarily on how it should be propped up. Obviously this explanation requires far more than one post, but I'm very willing to discuss how it would work, if you wish to know more.

Secondly, in saying that, I don't believe in anarchism. This is not to say that I don't believe it will work, I just don't believe such a ideology could work at this point in time. Maybe further along down the road, when the stranglehold the government has on everybody is backed off a bit, and folks begin to co-exist with one another, I'll be more inclined to go along with that ideology.

Thus, I do believe some form of government structure needs to be in place to enforce rule of law. Obviously people use this as an argument against libertarianism or my stance, stating that government would need to exist so my ideology is 'pie in the sky' or 'dancing unicorns' or whatever made up object anyone wishes to state, but I'll be the first say it does, but based off of the confinements of the Constitution. That's what the founders believed, that's what I believe.

What some, if not many, folks don't realize is that the very first 10 amendments to the Constitution is what the government can/cannot do. It has nothing to do with what we, as citizens of the nation, can/cannot do. These are the only amendments the founding fathers agreed to (Some, not so much). So if the framers built the Constitution around what the government can/cannot do, why would some of the remaining amendments include things what the citizens can/cannot do?

The 10th amendment was meant to cover all of that. In which, this is where, I believe, the argument comes into play of 'Natural' or 'Law given' rights. That's because some folks believe that our rights aren't granted to us by law, we're born with them (IE: Myself). Some folks believe rights are only granted once a law is made. Thus, I believe this fundamental issue can be pointed right to the 10th amendment. People than warp the meaning into 'What if the individual believes they have a right to kill others?', then they try to stand on that like they won. When, in all reality, they forget that the rights of the other individuals can't be trampled on. Thus, this is where the rule of law comes into play, for me. When you start looking at it like that, then, I believe, folks can begin seeing a different way of thinking.

In the end, libertarians don't all believe the same thing. Since I consider myself a libertarian, then I already prove your statement false. I'm not saying this stuff to be a smart ass, I'm merely saying it because it's impossible to lump everybody into one pool of thought and have it be true. As such, to say 'libertarians ARE a kind of anarchist', it will be proven wrong time and time again.

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## Mr Happy

The cop did what he had to do. If the guy didn't advance on him then it would have been a different situation. He did, and that's what happens. Bad situation all around, but the cop certainly acted lawfully from what I can see.

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## Irascible Crusader

> The cop did what he had to do. If the guy didn't advance on him then it would have been a different situation. He did, and that's what happens. Bad situation all around, but the cop certainly acted lawfully from what I can see.


^^^^ Proof that even Leftists can see this in a reasonable light. That leaves just the whacked out nutjobs screaming that this is a fascist cop and the face of the police state.

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## Mr Happy

> ^^^^ Proof that even Leftists can see this in a reasonable light. That leaves just the whacked out nutjobs screaming that this is a fascist cop and the face of the police state.


I am not a leftist. However, I am an ex-cop and he did exactly what he was trained to do. Might possibly question the number of shots fired, but he certainly didn't seemed panicked and was very clear in his instructions.

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## Matalese

> I am not a leftist. However, I am an ex-cop and he did exactly what he was trained to do. Might possibly question the number of shots fired, but he certainly didn't seemed panicked and was very clear in his instructions.


Thank goodness. A real policeman's input. Question! Do police officers have standard issue weapons  or do you provide your own? As to number of shots is it possible he had a semi automatic? And wouldn't that trigger be a little more sensitive to pressure? Or was it just adrenalin?

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## Mr Happy

> Thank goodness. A real policeman's input. Question! Do police officers have standard issue weapons  or do you provide your own? As to number of shots is it possible he had a semi automatic? And wouldn't that trigger be a little more sensitive to pressure? Or was it just adrenalin?


I am not American. I am from NZ but now living in Aussie. NZ police are not armed. Anybody from the rank Detective up has the option, but your run of the mill officer is not. We have a PR24 baton. We did have firearms training. A couple of US stats we were given when training: Something like 45 percent of offenders shot in the US were not stopped by the first bullet, thus we were trained to double tap. Something around the same percentage of police officers killed in the US were killed by their own firearm. This was 20 years ago. The stats might have changed, but I can certainly see why the cop shot the guy after so many warnings. We initially had Smith and Wesson .45s. Just as I was leaving the service they changed to Glocks. The S&Ws were 6 shot, the Glocks had a magazine. They were supplied by the Police.

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## Irascible Crusader

> I am not American. I am from NZ but now living in Aussie. NZ police are not armed. Anybody from the rank Detective up has the option, but your run of the mill officer is not. We have a PR24 baton. We did have firearms training. A couple of US stats we were given when training: Something like 45 percent of offenders shot in the US were not stopped by the first bullet, thus we were trained to double tap. Something around the same percentage of police officers killed in the US were killed by their own firearm. This was 20 years ago. The stats might have changed, but I can certainly see why the cop shot the guy after so many warnings. We initially had Smith and Wesson .45s. Just as I was leaving the service they changed to Glocks. The S&Ws were 6 shot, the Glocks had a magazine. They were supplied by the Police.


I'm always amused how in the movies, a reprimanded detective is told by his boss to "hand over your gun and your badge."  I don't believe for a minute that detectives carry around police issue guns, at least not here in America.  A real life detective would respond, "Here's my badge and the gun is mine and you aren't taking it."   I think disarmament is just stupid.  It didn't work the the UK where the police didn't carry guns, the people were disarmed, but the IRA was able to get its hands on as many guns as it wanted.

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## lka

> Pure luck. I served a year in jail and have still yet to commit my first crime. I guess some people get all the breaks.


Woops :/

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## Victory

> Woops :/


Wow.  I was wondering who.  So it's true?  Jan 26?

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