# Politics and News > World Affairs >  I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.

## Virgil Jones

That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.


I remember thinking at the time that he would stand with them in terms of their religious freedom in the US. Seems very awkward now with the rise of savage terrorists who claim to be Muslims.

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## Virgil Jones

> I remember thinking at the time that he would stand with them in terms of their religious freedom in the US. Seems very awkward now with the rise of savage terrorists who claim to be Muslims.


Very true, your original interpretation was fair and astute, today I see him as nothing less than an enemy

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Conservative Libertarian (01-18-2015),Old Ridge Runner (01-18-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> Very true, your original interpretation was fair and astute, today I see him as nothing less than an enemy


Really? Every president has his challenges.. I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake, but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?

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## Virgil Jones

> Really? Every president has his challenges.. I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake, but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?


I guess Bush shares some blame, but the ISIS disaster is squarely on Obama. His apology tour around the world, coupled with his surrendering Iraq just to spite Bush, that is the disaster we are witnessing.

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Conservative Libertarian (01-18-2015),DonGlock26 (01-18-2015),Jim Scott (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> I guess Bush shares some blame, but the ISIS disaster is squarely on Obama. His apology tour around the world, coupled with his surrendering Iraq just to spite Bush, that is the disaster we are witnessing.


Weren't the Iraqis demanding that any of our troops who broke the law be tried under the Iraqi judicial system. I think Bush (and Obama) were betting on Maliki holding it together.

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## Virgil Jones

> Weren't the Iraqis demanding that any of our troops who broke the law be tried under the Iraqi judicial system. I think Bush (and Obama) were betting on Maliki holding it together.


A Status of Forces Agreement, or whatever they call that, was easily available. Obama threw away that victory, in my mind, it was a hard won victory. Obama flitted it away

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Conservative Libertarian (01-18-2015),DonGlock26 (01-18-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

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## Virgil Jones

But yes, you are correct, the Iraqis were demanding that our troops be tried under their law

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## Jim Scott

The quote from Barack Obama in his 2006 book _'Audacity Of Hope'_.  In it, Obama was pointing out America's 'troubled' history with races of people other than 'white'. Obama referenced the herding of Japanese-Americans into internment camps during WWII as one example.  He was stating that if a backlash against Muslims due to terrorism by Muslims broke out in the U.S., he would defend them.  How noble of him.  In reality, very few incidents of violence against Muslims has occured in America.  A Jew is far more likely to be assaulted for his religion than a Muslim.

Obama, by his actions, has made it clear that he is highly sympathetic to Islam and refuses to even call Islamic terrorism by it's name.  I don't believe a narcissist such as Obama could be a practicing Muslim but I do think Obama is far too supportive of Islam and refuses to face jihadist threats seriously, which could have a very bad outcome for our nation as the Islamic terrorist threat grows exponentially.  

*Jim*

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-18-2015),Old Ridge Runner (01-18-2015),Sheldonna (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> But yes, you are correct, the Iraqis were demanding that our troops be tried under their law


God knows we couldn't have that.. those boys endured enough.....

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## Dan40

> That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.


I'd guess that muslims have reviewed odumbo's record for veracity, and they don't believe him.

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## sooda

> I'd guess that muslims have reviewed odumbo's record for veracity, and they don't believe him.


I think the GCC has a generally good opinion of Obama.. They know what he's up against.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> I think the GCC has a generally good opinion of Obama.. They know what he's up against.


Please assume no one understands what less than commonly used abbreviations are.

WTF is a GCC?

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> Please assume no one understands what less than commonly used abbreviations are.
> 
> WTF is a GCC?


Gulf Coastal Countries.. Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE.. Their development has been completely different than Syria, Iran and Iraq.. I think they are far friendlier towards Americans... in part because they have made so much progress over the past 50 years.

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## Taxcutter

Don't you just hate when Hussein Obama keeps his campaign promises, kinda like "skyrocket electric rates?"

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),Old Ridge Runner (01-18-2015),Virgil Jones (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> Don't you just hate when Hussein Obama keeps his campaign promises, kinda like "skyrocket electric rates?"


Well, the US has the highest rig count that we've had in over 40 years. I'm not convinced the President has much control over what private companies choose to do.

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## DonGlock26

> Gulf Coastal Countries.. Saudi, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain and the UAE.. Their development has been completely different than Syria, Iran and Iraq.. I think they are far friendlier towards Americans... in part because they have made so much progress over the past 50 years.


They are bankrolling AQ and Wahhabism.

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Old Ridge Runner (01-18-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

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## Pregnar Kraps

> They are bankrolling AQ and Wahhabism.


And how do they feel about Jews?

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## Jim Scott

> Well, the US has the highest rig count that we've had in over 40 years. I'm not convinced the President has much control over what private companies choose to do.


The Obama administration via the EPA has put many new restrictions on coal-fired plants and that has affected power generating businesses by putting, as he promised, coal-fired plants out of business and forcing retrofitting to comply with EPA directives (that no one voted for).  Today, energy costs are rising, just as Obama wanted.  

To claim that Obama doesn't have much control over the cost of energy is to ignore the realities that his agencies have made it more expensive, by design.

*Jim*

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),Old Ridge Runner (01-18-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

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## DonGlock26

> And how do they feel about Jews?


I'm sure some "neck striking" has crossed their minds.

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Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> They are bankrolling AQ and Wahhabism.


They are absolutely NOT bankrolling terrorists.. I know that every talking head blames Saudi Arabia which is real easy for them to do because they don't know a bloody thing about the Saudis.

Lots of people use the word Wahhabi and don't have a clue what they are talking about..

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## Pregnar Kraps

> They are absolutely NOT bankrolling terrorists.. I know that every talking head blames Saudi Arabia which is real easy for them to do because they don't know a bloody thing about the Saudis.


Are you saying Saudi Arabia does not finance the construction of Madrassas and promote Sharia Law around the world as a result of the agreement to help bring the Grand Mosque seizure under control in 1979?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_M...zure#Aftermath

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

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## sooda

> Are you saying Saudi Arabia does not finance the construction of Madrassas and promote Sharia Law around the world as a result of the agreement to help bring the Grand Mosque seizure under control in 1979?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_M...zure#Aftermath


You mean "schools" for small boys in Pakistan? Yes, education in Pakistan is dismal...These small schools (20-30 students) are for boys between the ages of 7- 14.. They teach the rudiments of reading, writing, arithmetic , geography and religion... They don't teach terrorism or Arab nationalism.

I remember the Grand Mosque seizure..  They claimed some young guy was the Mahdi and he was shot dead on the spot.

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## Jim Scott

Wahhabism is an ultra-conservative form of Sunni Islam that is allied with the Saudi monarchy.  It is what drives the Islamic fanatics to murder 'infidels' and even other Muslims they don't consider authentic enough.  Fanatics are like that.  

Saudi Arabia has long been known as a major funding source for Wahhabi terrorists around the world.  Huffy denials are hardly convincing when the U.S. government (CIA, FBI, congressional investigations) concur on this and have the proof to back it up.  Unfortunately, no one in the government (Bush administration included) wants to confront this reality.  In fact, Obama has doubled down in his support for the Saudi Kingdom.  Those who deny the reality that the Saudis are a major source of funding for terrorists are either lying, delusional or incredibly naive.  

*Jim*

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Sheldonna (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> Wahhabism is an ultra-conservative form of Sunni Islam that is allied with the Saudi monarchy.  It is what drives the Islamic fanatics to murder 'infidels' and even other Muslims they don't consider authentic enough.  Fanatics are like that.  
> 
> Saudi Arabia has long been known as a major funding source for Wahhabi terrorists around the world.  Huffy denials are hardly convincing when the U.S. government (CIA, FBI, congressional investigations) concur on this and have the proof to back it up.  Unfortunately, no one in the government (Bush administration included) wants to confront this reality.  In fact, Obama has doubled down in his support for the Saudi Kingdom.  Those who deny the reality that the Saudis are a major source of funding for terrorists are either lying, delusional or incredibly naive.  
> 
> *Jim*


Well, I am sorry that's what you have been told.. Al Wahabs's objective was to get rid of the innovations that had crept into Islam and rid the Arabian peninsula of the Turks.. The Ottoman Caliphate was very bad for the Arab world... it descended into abject poverty and illiteracy.

I knew lots of CIA guys in Arabia.. They didn't agree with the BS that's coming from "former" CIA who are trying to make a living blogging and doing TV appearances as self styled "experts".. Heck, most of them never set foot in Arabia.

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## Virgil Jones

> Well, I am sorry that's what you have been told.. Al Wahabs's objective was to get rid of the innovations that had crept into Islam and rid the Arabian peninsula of the Turks.. The Ottoman Caliphate was very bad for the Arab world... it descended into abject poverty and illiteracy.
> 
> I knew lots of CIA guys in Arabia.. They didn't agree with the BS that's coming from "former" CIA who are trying to make a living blogging and doing TV appearances as self styled "experts".. Heck, most of them never set foot in Arabia.


What do you think of Erdogan's recent bizarre statements?

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## sooda

> What do you think of Erdogan's recent bizarre statements?


Not sure... in some nuanced way he may be trying to say these slaughterhouse thugs aren't Muslims...

IMO Jim Jones wasn't a Christian no matter what he called himself.

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## Virgil Jones

> Not sure... in some nuanced way he may be trying to say these slaughterhouse thugs aren't Muslims...
> 
> IMO Jim Jones wasn't a Christian no matter what he called himself.


I see your point, I guess, but Jim Jones was a Christian in my mind, and a lunatic.

Where I think we disagree is that I believe Muslims in many parts of the world agree with ISIS, what is it 16% of the French population favors ISIS, there is something really wrong with muslims worldwide. Not all of them, but far too many of them

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## EvilObamaClone

I want the full context of the quote.

There is a fair amount of bigotry against Muslims in America. Some of their Mosqirs are fir rbombed, and other things.

So, because I am a big believer in freedom of religion and the Constitution, if it came right down to conflict between white racist Christians and them, I will side with them myself.

I really don't much care for the bigotry against them and I will not support it.

But please, don't mistake me as a liberal terrorists enabler. I do not support terrorism either, and I want to see the miltiary used to put an end to them all no matter where they may roam.

But I will NOT under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES give in to fear and ignorance and say they are all the same.

A reasonable person recognizes that they aren;t, and many really do not want to turn America into the cesspool that is the Middle East. They come here fto have a better life to escape the crap the radicals have done to them.

And that should not be held against them at all.

Edit:

Let me clarify, it there is a push to shove them out of this country out of fear and ignorance, I will side with them.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> I see your point, I guess, but Jim Jones was a Christian in my mind, and a lunatic.
> 
> Where I think we disagree is that I believe Muslims in many parts of the world agree with ISIS, what is it 16% of the French population favors ISIS, there is something really wrong with muslims worldwide. Not all of them, but far too many of them


Too many bad apples have spoiled the appeal of ALL Muslims.

You are now faced with trying to disassociate yourselves from the toxic Muslims.

And we know that many of the toxic Muslims are already here but they won't become problematic until Muslim populations in the USA reach 2 - 5% of the total US population.

So, from our point of view, we'd rather just restrict ALL Muslims and solve the problem for the foreseeable future.

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

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## Canadianeye

Bigotry is bad. Who are biggest bigots in western civilized cultures btw?

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

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## Dos Equis

You all have to remember that Obama's daddy was a Muslim and he was raised a Muslim in Indonesia.  

Also note that in his church they routinely gave sermons in defense of the Palestinian people and cursed Zionists.

No matter what Muslims do, Obama will defend them.  That means of they start a zombie attack on humanoids he will still defend them, because it has been engrained in him.

Islam could murder the entire state of Israel and kill off half the female population and gays and people of other faiths in Islamic countries and Obama would not flinch

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),Daily Bread (01-18-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

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## Pregnar Kraps

> I want the full context of the quote.
> 
> There is a fair amount of bigotry against Muslims in America. Some of their Mosqirs are fir rbombed, and other things.
> 
> So, because I am a big believer in freedom of religion and the Constitution, if it came right down to conflict between white racist Christians and them, I will side with them myself.
> 
> I really don't much care for the bigotry against them and I will not support it.
> 
> But please, don't mistake me as a liberal terrorists enabler. I do not support terrorism either, and I want to see the miltiary used to put an end to them all no matter where they may roam.
> ...


"Every accommodation non-Muslims make for Muslims moves our culture, our beliefs, and our legal systems one step closer to Sharia law."

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Daily Bread (01-18-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015),Victory (01-19-2015)

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## sooda

> I see your point, I guess, but Jim Jones was a Christian in my mind, and a lunatic.
> 
> Where I think we disagree is that I believe Muslims in many parts of the world agree with ISIS, what is it 16% of the French population favors ISIS, there is something really wrong with muslims worldwide. Not all of them, but far too many of them


Its seems that a lot of these people who side with ISIS are recent converts. I suspect they were marginalized before the converted.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> You all have to remember that Obama's daddy was a Muslim and he was raised a Muslim in Indonesia.  
> 
> Also note that in his church they routinely gave sermons in defense of the Palestinian people and cursed Zionists.
> 
> No matter what Muslims do, Obama will defend them.  That means of they start a zombie attack on humanoids he will still defend them, because it has been engrained in him.
> 
> Islam could murder the entire state of Israel and kill off half the female population and gays and people of other faiths in Islamic countries and Obama would not flinch


Some parts of your post are spot on.

 :Smile:

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## sooda

> You all have to remember that Obama's daddy was a Muslim and he was raised a Muslim in Indonesia.  
> 
> Also note that in his church they routinely gave sermons in defense of the Palestinian people and cursed Zionists.
> 
> No matter what Muslims do, Obama will defend them.  That means of they start a zombie attack on humanoids he will still defend them, because it has been engrained in him.
> 
> Islam could murder the entire state of Israel and kill off half the female population and gays and people of other faiths in Islamic countries and Obama would not flinch



Obama's father was a Muslim from British East Africa and an atheist.... If I recall correctly, he was educated in British schools.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Bigotry is bad. Who are biggest bigots in western civilized cultures btw?




The guys with the swords.

By the way, here's a snippet from this very informative book.




> “The Jews became a victim of their own success. The more they restored the land and made it fertile, the more Muslims were attracted from nearby Muslim countries and flocked to Jewish-settled areas for jobs. 
> 
> These same poor Muslims who benefited from Jewish-created jobs later charged that the Jews had stolen land that had been in their families since time immemorial. 
> 
> This remains one of the most colossal lies of history. Yet the West has swallowed the lie hook, line, and sinker. 
> 
> This lie will eventually lead to Armageddon.”


https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...om_search=true

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## Virgil Jones

> Obama's father was a Muslim from British East Africa and an atheist.... If I recall correctly, he was educated in British schools.


I thought he was educated in American schools, but you may be right. The sad thing is that Western schools teach westerners to hate themselves, it is truly pathetic

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015),Victory (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> I thought he was educated in American schools, but you may be right. The sad thing is that Western schools teach westerners to hate themselves, it is truly pathetic


In grade school for the 3 yrs Obama was in Jalarta, he attended a Catholic school and a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.

Obama's father was educated in British schools in British East Africa.

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## Virgil Jones

> In grade school for the 3 yrs Obama was in Jalarta, he attended a Catholic school and a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.
> 
> Obama's father was educated in British schools in British East Africa.


I was thinking more of his college years, you are spot on, I was not questioning that

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## sooda

> I was thinking more of his college years, you are spot on, I was not questioning that


You mean at Colombia and Harvard?

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## Virgil Jones

> You mean at Colombia and Harvard?


Not the kid, the dad, didn't he come here to attend college?

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## Victory

> Really? Every president has his challenges.. I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake,* but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster*?


Oh.

Em.

GEE!

You have GOT to be kidding?

Three years ago.




Feb 8, 2011




Feb 10, 2011




And this!




And this!




And you say "who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?"

Oh GOOD LORD!  Open your eyes!  Stop this suicidal denial of facts!

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Canadianeye (01-18-2015),Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> Not the kid, the dad, didn't he come here to attend college?


Yes.. I think so.. under some sort of cultural exchange program .. may have been a JFK thing.. I am fuzzy on the details.

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## Virgil Jones

> Oh.
> 
> Em.
> 
> GEE!
> 
> You have GOT to be kidding?
> 
> Feb 8, 2011
> ...


Well done sir! Accurate predictions were met with ridicule, I don't see any of them backtracking and apologizing

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Victory (01-18-2015)

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## Calypso Jones

> Really? Every president has his challenges.. I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake, but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?


well when you leave a void, it usually isn't the good that fills it.  It is evil.

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Victory (01-18-2015)

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## Virgil Jones

> well when you leave a void, it usually isn't the good that fills it.  It is evil.


Yeah Obama was a real genius when he supported the Arab Spring, and the petulant withdrawal from Iraq

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Oh.
> 
> Em.
> 
> GEE!
> 
> You have GOT to be kidding?
> 
> Feb 8, 2011
> ...


Thank you for helping set the record straight.

 :Applause: 

 :Thumbsup20: 

PK

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Victory (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> Oh.
> 
> Em.
> 
> GEE!
> 
> You have GOT to be kidding?
> 
> Feb 8, 2011
> ...



Well I had a chance to visit both Iran and Iraq many times and so I've read a bit about their history over the past 40 years.. and in particular how the British got mired down in Iraq for so long.. I was very opposed to Dubya's war, but I don't think he could have foreseen what would happen or that ISIS would emerge.. and. I think he was naïve about Maliki.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Yeah Obama was a real genius when he supported the Arab Spring, and the petulant withdrawal from Iraq


Genius for doing it without anyone nailing him for being a conscious Manchurian Candidate.

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Virgil Jones (01-20-2015)

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## Canadianeye

@Victory

Exactly. And hundreds of more times did he break this down a few years ago, and roundly mocked by all those intellectual light weights...who now, will *not* acknowledge how CORRECT he was and is.

Now, what they are doing...is trying to rewrite even the current facts of what was said by those champions who had the courage to say it, from even just a few years.

They are imbeciles who have closed their eyes to truth. They are locked down in an ideological and destructive mindset that does not allow truth, and denies truth in every area.

It is difficult to believe that their are some people this stupid, but, well....you just have to look at the _impassioned_ denials of obvious realities to see how utterly blind and stupid these people are. No character. No moral values. No love of country...nothing.

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015),Virgil Jones (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> well when you leave a void, it usually isn't the good that fills it.  It is evil.


I knew the war would be a disaster, I just didn't anticipate ISIS.

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## Virgil Jones

> I knew the war would be a disaster, I just didn't anticipate ISIS.


It is not our fault that muslims are complete retards

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Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

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## Victory

> Well I had a chance to visit both Iran and Iraq many times and so I've read a bit about their history over the past 40 years.. and in particular how the British got mired down in Iraq for so long.. I was very opposed to Dubya's war, but I don't think he could have foreseen what would happen or that ISIS would emerge.. and. I think he was naïve about Maliki.


No no no.  We're not going to move the goal posts here.  You said. . .




> but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?


Well, _I_ foresaw this ISIS disaster.  How?  I did my homework.  I read up on the Middle East.  I _LIVED_ in Iraq (not just visited).

And if you've read about their history over the last 40 years you probably would not have seen the Caliphate coming.  You need to look back to WWI and the demise of the Ottoman Empire and the back stabbing that was Sykes-Picot to understand today's Caliphate.  You are a member of a small minority by now if you're still saying ". . .but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?"

Seriously, that's like reading Mein Kampf over and over and saying, ". . .but who could have foreseen this Holocaust disaster?"

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...Caliphate-quot

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

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## sooda

> No no no.  We're not going to move the goal posts here.  You said. . .
> 
> 
> 
> Well, _I_ foresaw this ISIS disaster.  How?  I did my homework.  I read up on the Middle East.  I _LIVED_ in Iraq (not just visited).
> 
> And if you've read about their history over the last 40 years you probably would not have seen the Caliphate coming.  You need to look back to WWI and the demise of the Ottoman Empire and the back stabbing that was Sykes-Picot to understand today's Caliphate.  You are a member of a small minority by now if you're still saying ". . .but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?"
> 
> Seriously, that's like reading Mein Kampf over and over and saying, ". . .but who could have foreseen this Holocaust disaster?"
> ...


I don't think there will be another Caliphate although the West has been predicting one and speculating since at least the early 1950s. The interests of the various Arab countries are too diverse and the last Caliphate was not good for most of the Arab world.

Sykes-Picot was definitely a betrayal..

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## Victory

> @Victory
> 
> Exactly. And hundreds of more times did he break this down a few years ago, and roundly mocked by all those intellectual light weights...who now, will *not* acknowledge how CORRECT he was and is.
> 
> Now, what they are doing...is trying to rewrite even the current facts of what was said by those champions who had the courage to say it, from even just a few years.
> 
> They are imbeciles who have closed their eyes to truth. They are locked down in an ideological and destructive mindset that does not allow truth, and denies truth in every area.
> 
> It is difficult to believe that their are some people this stupid, but, well....you just have to look at the _impassioned_ denials of obvious realities to see how utterly blind and stupid these people are. No character. No moral values. No love of country...nothing.


But hey!  That Rachel Maddow sure is shmart.  I mean, she went to school and everything.  And everybody knows intellectuals are good people (and shmart too!)  So if intellectuals like Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Bill Kristol, and Mika Brzezinski say the sky is red and green plaid then it's probably best to just believe them without checking.  :Moron: 

After all, Beck didn't even go to college so he's probably not right about anything.

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

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## Virgil Jones

> I don't think there will be another Caliphate although the West has been predicting one and speculating since at least the early 1950s. The interests of the various Arab countries are too diverse and the last Caliphate was not good for most of the Arab world.
> 
> Sykes-Picot was definitely a betrayal..


I am glad you are back Sooda, we may not agree all the time, but you have a very sharp mind, I look forward to the debates.

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## Virgil Jones

> But hey!  That Rachel Maddow sure is shmart.  I mean, she went to school and everything.  And everybody knows intellectuals are good people (and shmart too!)  So if intellectuals like Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Bill Kristol, and Mika Brzezinski say the sky is red and green plaid then it's probably best to just believe them without checking. 
> 
> After all, Beck didn't even go to college so he's probably not right about anything.


Remember when Matthews said he felt a tingle running down his leg LOL?

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Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015)

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## sooda

> I am glad you are back Sooda, we may not agree all the time, but you have a very sharp mind, I look forward to the debates.


What a nice welcome.. thank you.

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## Canadianeye

> Remember when Matthews said he felt a tingle running down his leg LOL?


I always thought this was best piece of MadCow hypocrisy...that...isn't bothered in the least of her hypocritical depravity of conscience. All those nickels and dimes....LOL

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## Virgil Jones

> I always thought this was best piece of MadCow hypocrisy...that...isn't bothered in the least of her hypocritical depravity of conscience. All those nickels and dimes....LOL


LOL, that video is hilarious

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## Victory

> I don't think there will be another Caliphate


How can you say that?  What is ISIS if not the Caliphate?

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DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

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## EvilObamaClone

> "Every accommodation non-Muslims make for Muslims moves our culture, our beliefs, and our legal systems one step closer to Sharia law."


So what are you Christians doing to smooth over the crime and violence you guys have committed around the world and here in America?

Because, if that's really the rules you want to live by, I can see no difference between the two of you.

If we have to live by those rules, then so do you, and you guys need to go the way of the Dodo just like them.

Because as we all know all Christians are pedophiles and woman killers.


You really don't want to play this kind of game with me.

----------


## Canadianeye

Yeah. The internet and MSM are clogged with stories of Christians strapping bombs on their kids and running them into places to explode.

Don't know how much more news than that even gets on the airwaves.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Yeah. The internet and MSM are clogged with stories of Christians strapping bombs on their kids and running them into places to explode.
> 
> Don't know how much more news than that even gets on the airwaves.


I was just taking my suicide vest off as we speak. I must be a bad Christian, I can't find a suitable target after all these years

----------

Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Virgil Jones

> So what are you Christians doing to smooth over the crime and violence you guys have committed around the world and here in America?
> 
> Because, if that's really the rules you want to live by, I can see no difference between the two of you.
> 
> If we have to live by those rules, then so do you, and you guys need to go the way of the Dodo just like them.
> 
> Because as we all know all Christians are pedophiles and woman killers.
> 
> 
> You really don't want to play this kind of game with me.


Moral relativism is not a pretty sight when comparing Christians and Muzzies. There is no comparison there, I hope you are not pretending that there is

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## Canadianeye

> I was just taking my suicide vest off as we speak. I must be a bad Christian, I can't find a suitable target after all these years


Oh, I have it much worse as an atheist. My kids were always badgering at me, when walking past the dynamite vest store....Dad, can I have a Christian suicide vest, can I, huh, can I Dad? Huh.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (01-20-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Virgil Jones (01-18-2015)

----------


## sooda

> How can you say that?  What is ISIS if not the Caliphate?


A *caliphate* is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph —a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.

This leadership is conferred by consensus.. I think through the Shura..  ISIS is a dreaded enemy in the Muslim world.

----------


## Victory

> I don't think there will be another Caliphate although the West has been predicting one and speculating since at least the early 1950s. The interests of the various Arab countries are too diverse and the last Caliphate was not good for most of the Arab world.


Who says a Caliphate has to be good for Arabs for one to be established?  Dictatorships are not "good" for people and yet we have scores of them in the world.

Why would nearly every Arab flag fly the colors of three Caliphates if Arabs aren't really interested in establishing a Caliphate?

----------

Canadianeye (01-18-2015),DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Victory

> A *caliphate* is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.


Yes, and. . ?

sooda, meet Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.  Caliph, meet sooda

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Virgil Jones (01-18-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Obama's father was a Muslim from British East Africa and an atheist.... If I recall correctly, he was educated in British schools.


A Muslim atheist?

----------


## sooda

> Who says a Caliphate has to be good for Arabs for one to be established?  Dictatorships are not "good" for people and yet we have scores of them in the world.
> 
> Why would nearly every Arab flag fly the colors of three Caliphates if Arabs aren't really interested in establishing a Caliphate?


Arabs LOVE green .. are you taking that as a sign of a desire for a Caliphate?

The only ones who want a Caliphate are the radicals who want a monthly check from the oil producers.. and resent money spent on progress in healthcare, education , clean water etc.

----------


## sooda

> A Muslim atheist?


Both Obama's father and stepfather were atheists.. Do you think that all "Muslims" are pious and observant?

----------


## Victory

> Both Obama's father and stepfather were atheists.. Do you think that all "Muslims" are pious and observant?


I think if a person is a Muslim. . .they're not atheist.

Muslim does not equal "pious and observant."  You've really got to stop this goal post moving business.  It's pretty transparent.

----------


## sooda

> I think if a person is a Muslim. . .they're not atheist.
> 
> Muslim does not equal "pious and observant."  You've really got to stop this goal post moving business.  It's pretty transparent.


Franklin Graham said something like that.. He thinks Islam is carried in sperm and Judaism is carried in eggs. Living in a predominantly Muslim country.. or Arab country doesn't mean one is a Muslim.. anymore than all Americans being observant Christians.

----------


## Victory

> I knew the war would be a disaster, I just didn't anticipate ISIS.


Seriously, why not?

You know what Sykes-Picot is and so you know it came about to keep Arabs separated and prevent the formation of a Caliphate.  You have a TV and have been watching it at least since 2005 so. . .why did you not anticipate ISIS?

----------


## sooda

> Seriously, why not?
> 
> You know what Sykes-Picot is and so you know it came about to keep Arabs separated and prevent the formation of a Caliphate.  You have a TV and have been watching it at least since 2005 so. . .why did you not anticipate ISIS?


Must have been about 1924 when Husseini declared himself Caliph.. a few weeks later Ibn Saud chased him off the Arabian Peninsula. For years and years the West speculated if the new Caliph would be Ibn Saud, or Farouk.. gosh, I can't remember the name of the other guy.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> But hey!  That Rachel Maddow sure is shmart.  I mean, she went to school and everything.  And everybody knows intellectuals are good people (and shmart too!)  So if intellectuals like Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Bill Kristol, and Mika Brzezinski say the sky is red and green plaid then it's probably best to just believe them without checking. 
> 
> After all, Beck didn't even go to college so he's probably not right about anything.


Isn't Bill Kristol a Conservative?

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Franklin Graham said something like that.. He thinks Islam is carried in sperm and Judaism is carried in eggs. Living in a predominantly Muslim country.. or Arab country doesn't mean one is a Muslim.. anymore than all Americans being observant Christians.


Twist the truth much?

----------

Victory (01-19-2015)

----------


## Network

That statement was planned in the Obama playbook, along with "he was born in Kenya to a Muslim" memes.

I think his dad was Frank Marshall Davis.

----------


## sooda

> Isn't Bill Kristol a Conservative?


Kristol is a neo-con I think.. they're special.

----------


## Canadianeye

> That statement was planned in the Obama playbook, along with "he was born in Kenya to a Muslim" memes.
> 
> *I think his dad was Frank Marshall Davis*.


I agree.

----------


## sooda

> Twist the truth much?


*"The seed of Muslim is passed through the father."* *— Franklin Graham on Thursday, August 19th, 2010 in an interview on CNN
*

----------


## Virgil Jones

> That statement was planned in the Obama playbook, along with "he was born in Kenya to a Muslim" memes.
> 
> I think his dad was Frank Marshall Davis.


Davis was Obama's daddy all right, he spanked that ass all the time

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> That statement was planned in the Obama playbook, along with "he was born in Kenya to a Muslim" memes.
> 
> I think his dad was Frank Marshall Davis.



Frank _Marshall Davis_ (December 31, 1905 – July 26, 1987)... so he was 56 years old when he impregnated 17 year old Anne Dunham via long distance.

----------


## Sled Dog

> That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.


It means treason.

It's clear from his actions and non-actions during his reign of error.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> I remember thinking at the time that he would stand with them in terms of their religious freedom in the US. Seems very awkward now with the rise of savage terrorists who claim to be Muslims.


"Who claim to be"?

They're as muslim as King Ebola.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Frank _Marshall Davis_ (December 31, 1905 – July 26, 1987)... so he was 56 years old when he impregnated 17 year old Anne Dunham via long distance.


So you're saying that old saying is true, or at least possible?    :Wink:

----------


## Sled Dog

> Really? Every president has his challenges.. I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake, but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster?


EVERYONE, including his top military advisors and Sled Dogs the world over.

His treason was predicted and predictable.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Kristol is a neo-con I think.. they're special.


Pardon me, aren't you a Muslim?

----------


## Canadianeye

> Frank _Marshall Davis_ (December 31, 1905 – July 26, 1987)... so he was 56 years old when he impregnated 17 year old Anne Dunham via long distance.


What do you mean long distance? Oh. Wait. You think some travel and whereabouts certification from over 5 decades ago, is impossible to fudge. Interesting.

56 fathering a kid. Unheard of I tell ya.

----------

Victory (01-18-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> I guess Bush shares some blame, but the ISIS disaster is squarely on Obama. His apology tour around the world, coupled with his surrendering Iraq just to spite Bush, that is the disaster we are witnessing.


Whatever the fault was in the questionable invasion of Iraq and the deposing of Saddam Hussein, the FACT remains that when Bush left office, he left in Obama's treasonous hands a military victory and a representative democratic republic in Iraq, a victory which King Ebola deliberately overthrew as part of his overall plan of betrayal.

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> "Who claim to be"?
> 
> They're as muslim as King Ebola.


Right... I lived around Muslims for a couple of decades.. They weren't criminals or thugs.

----------


## sooda

> Whatever the fault was in the questionable invasion of Iraq and the deposing of Saddam Hussein, the FACT remains that when Bush left office, he left in Obama's treasonous hands a military victory and a representative democratic republic in Iraq, a victory which King Ebola deliberately overthrew as part of his overall plan of betrayal.


There was NO victory in Iraq.... We didn't win anything and we certainly didn't secure the peace.

----------


## Network

> Frank _Marshall Davis_ (December 31, 1905  July 26, 1987)... so he was 56 years old when he impregnated 17 year old Anne Dunham via long distance.


So you're saying you have info on 17 year old Anne Dunham?

She looks like Paul McCartney to me. just saying..lol

----------


## Virgil Jones

> There was NO victory in Iraq.... We didn't win anything and we certainly didn't secure the peace.


We won that war, plain and simple, it took a traitor to undo the good that we accomplished

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> I'd guess that muslims have reviewed odumbo's record for veracity, and they don't believe him.


They believe full well that he is not only not going to take any effective action against them, he's going to help them as much as he can, by, example, returning as many of their captive leaders as possible before he leaves office.

After he leaves office, he's going to be their greatest spokeshole and defender.

----------


## sooda

> What do you mean long distance? Oh. Wait. You think some travel and whereabouts certification from over 5 decades ago, is impossible to fudge. Interesting.
> 
> 56 fathering a kid. Unheard of I tell ya.


Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?

----------


## Sled Dog

> There was NO victory in Iraq.... We didn't win anything and we certainly didn't secure the peace.


You've already proven yourself ignorant of the facts, your empty refutations mean nothing.

----------


## Canadianeye

> So you're saying you have info on 17 year old Anne Dunham?
> 
> She looks like Paul McCartney to me. just saying..lol


I would need to see a picture of that. Maybe a painting would do.

----------


## Network

I know that his Birf Certs were intentionally made sloppy, in layers, released in short form, and coffee mugs were made to torture people.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> I would need to see a picture of that. Maybe a painting would do.


She did look like McCartney, now that I think about it

----------


## sooda

> We won that war, plain and simple, it took a traitor to undo the good that we accomplished


No we didn't win.. we couldn't even secure the highway between Baghdad and the airport. Remember now... the British took Baghdad in two weeks .. and then the wheels came off and they were bogged down there for 20 years.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?


I am not sure Davis fathered Obama, I don't care really, but I think he mounted Obama quite often

----------


## Canadianeye

> Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?


No way....good grief. Is this...it can't be. Are you going to claim you have been a republican/conservative most of your life? I think I remember you now...LOL

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Virgil Jones

> No we didn't win.. we couldn't even secure the highway between Baghdad and the airport. Remember now... the British took Baghdad in two weeks .. and then the wheels came off and they were bogged down there for 20 years.


Pulling out was a mistake. ISIS filled a void, left by Obama

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> I am not sure Davis fathered Obama, I don't care really, but I think he mounted Obama quite often


What do you mean ? Davis would have been in his mid-seventies????

----------


## Virgil Jones

> What do you mean ? Davis would have been in his mid-seventies????


Davis was a well known communist and pedophile. He was asked to "mentor" Obama, do the math

----------


## Sled Dog

> Wahhabism is an ultra-conservative form of Sunni Islam that is allied with the Saudi monarchy.  It is what drives the Islamic fanatics to murder 'infidels' and even other Muslims they don't consider authentic enough.  Fanatics are like that.  
> 
> Saudi Arabia has long been known as a major funding source for Wahhabi terrorists around the world.  Huffy denials are hardly convincing when the U.S. government (CIA, FBI, congressional investigations) concur on this and have the proof to back it up.  Unfortunately, no one in the government (Bush administration included) wants to confront this reality.  In fact, Obama has doubled down in his support for the Saudi Kingdom.  Those who deny the reality that the Saudis are a major source of funding for terrorists are either lying, delusional or incredibly naive.  
> 
> *Jim*



There are two reasons the Saudis are pumping so much oil these days.

ISIS has oil wells and Saudi Arabia wants to put the brakes on them by cutting their income.

AMERICA is breaking free of it's dependence on Saudi oil, and if the US ever realizes that it is free of the Saudi stranglehold, all hell is going to break loose in the Middle East, cuz we ain't happy with them, not in the least.

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Pulling out was a mistake. ISIS filled a void, left by Obama


Bush installed Maliki and tutored him via Skype .. and there was never a hint of inclusive governance or even peace. We destroyed what stability the Sunnis had in Iraq when we bombed their largest, peaceful city in the spring of 2003. The war was a massive clusterfluck.

----------


## Virgil Jones

https://exposingobama.wordpress.com/...ophile-mentor/

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Bush installed Maliki and tutored him via Skype .. and there was never a hint of inclusive governance or even peace. We destroyed what stability the Sunnis had in Iraq when we bombed their largest, peaceful city in the spring of 2003. The war was a massive clusterfluck.


I agree that the war was a massive clusterfuck, but only because the 5th column in the west made it so

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015),Sled Dog (01-18-2015)

----------


## Network

But ISIS, being the mother goddess of the pagans who rule the world, loves kittens.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Well, I am sorry that's what you have been told.. Al Wahabs's objective was to get rid of the innovations that had crept into Islam and rid the Arabian peninsula of the Turks.. The Ottoman Caliphate was very bad for the Arab world... it descended into abject poverty and illiteracy.
> 
> I knew lots of CIA guys in Arabia.. They didn't agree with the BS that's coming from "former" CIA who are trying to make a living blogging and doing TV appearances as self styled "experts".. Heck, most of them never set foot in Arabia.


What's your point?

The purpose of the DemocRATs was to preserve slavery of the black man in the United States, it's morphed into restoring slavery to everyone.

Are you claiming that the Wahabi's have remained true to their original purpose for the last couple of centuries?

----------


## sooda

> There are two reasons the Saudis are pumping so much oil these days.
> 
> ISIS has oil wells and Saudi Arabia wants to put the brakes on them by cutting their income.
> 
> AMERICA is breaking free of it's dependence on Saudi oil, and if the US ever realizes that it is free of the Saudi stranglehold, all hell is going to break loose in the Middle East, cuz we ain't happy with them, not in the least.



American has bought less and less Saudi oil over the past five years.. but the Chinese are buying more and more Saudi oil. The area that ISIS controls in Iraq produces about 10% of Iraq's oil.. That's not such a big deal... nor a problem for the US or the Saudis.

The goal is to put the screws to Russia and Iran......

----------


## Sled Dog

> Not sure... in some nuanced way he may be trying to say these slaughterhouse thugs aren't Muslims...
> 
> IMO Jim Jones wasn't a Christian no matter what he called himself.


Jim Jones wasn't a Christian.   Christians the world over rejected his actions.

Who's rejected all the terrorism in the name of the Baby Raper Mohammed?   Nobody that matters.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> What's your point?
> 
> The purpose of the DemocRATs was to preserve slavery of the black man in the United States, it's morphed into restoring slavery to everyone.
> 
> Are you claiming that the Wahabi's have remained true to their original purpose for the last couple of centuries?


I lived with them..  They are like Calvanists.. no frills, but they certainly aren't hostile or violent.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> American has bought less and less Saudi oil over the past five years.. but the Chinese are buying more and more Saudi oil. The area that ISIS controls in Iraq produces about 10% of Iraq's oil.. That's not such a big deal... nor a problem for the US or the Saudis.
> 
> The goal is to put the screws to Russia and Iran......


True that, Russia and Iran are catching hell right now, and I am enjoying their pain

----------


## Network

PS.
No one was beheaded with that butterknife.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Jim Jones wasn't a Christian.   Christians the world over rejected his actions.
> 
> Who's rejected all the terrorism in the name of the Baby Raper Mohammed?   Nobody that matters.


Yeah, hard to forget that the prophet "married" a six year old. How fucked up is that?

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> Bigotry is bad. Who are biggest bigots in western civilized cultures btw?


The Democrats and other socialists.

----------


## sooda

> What's your point?
> 
> The purpose of the DemocRATs was to preserve slavery of the black man in the United States, it's morphed into restoring slavery to everyone.
> 
> Are you claiming that the Wahabi's have remained true to their original purpose for the last couple of centuries?

----------


## sooda

> Yeah, hard to forget that the prophet "married" a six year old. How fucked up is that?



No he didn't.. The Hadith that makes that claims was written by a Persian scholar 200 years after Muhammed's death.. Aisha was born 5 years before the Call so she was around 17.

----------


## Sled Dog

> In grade school for the 3 yrs Obama was in Jalarta, he attended a Catholic school and a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.
> 
> Obama's father was educated in British schools in British East Africa.


He attended a "catholic school" that taught muslims (like little King Ebola) as any muslim school in that country would teach them.   He was not taught to be a Christian, and he's never been a Christian.

As an atheist I can tell who the real Christians are.   He's a Rodent of the muslim traitor variety, through and through.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> No he didn't.. The Hadith that makes that claims was written by a Persian scholar 200 years after Muhammed's death.. Aisha was born 5 years before the Call so she was around 17.


I think this discussion has taken too hard of a turn, my apologies to you

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> No he didn't.. The Hadith that makes that claims was written by a Persian scholar 200 years after Muhammed's death.. Aisha was born 5 years before the Call so she was around 17.


It's blasphemy to re-write the words of the Holy Baby Raping Mohammed, so you better stop before they notice.

----------


## Network

Crescent moon, pilgrimage to the Black Cube to walk counterclockwise around it like the hexagon (cube) storm on Saturn.

Islam was created by the (Roman) pagans and Muhammed was a shill, bro.

Their most famous new shill group is even called Isis.

----------


## Dos Equis

> I thought he was educated in American schools, but you may be right. The sad thing is that Western schools teach westerners to hate themselves, it is truly pathetic


Judging by the shroud of mystery we have around Obama and his education, why would his fathers be "black and white"?

----------


## Virgil Jones

It is impossible for tempers not to flare on such an issue, the muslims are strapping bombs to children and blowing up other children

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Dos Equis

> Some parts of your post are spot on.


Only some?

----------


## Virgil Jones

I can't even imagine strapping a bomb to a little white girl, and sending her to blow up "enemies". There is a sickness with Islam, that cannot be overstated

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> I can't even imagine strapping a bomb to a little white girl, and sending her to blow up "enemies". There is a sickness with Islam, that cannot be overstated


No question, but suicide is forbidden in Islam just as it is for Christians and Jews. These ISIS guys are beyond the pale..

----------


## Network

Know what's funny about Jihad Johnny, the fake beheader MI6 Indian-British agent?

He called Obama the "dog of Rome" and the troops "crusaders."

----------


## sooda

> He attended a "catholic school" that taught muslims (like little King Ebola) as any muslim school in that country would teach them.   He was not taught to be a Christian, and he's never been a Christian.
> 
> As an atheist I can tell who the real Christians are.   He's a Rodent of the muslim traitor variety, through and through.


Catholic grade schools don't teach Islam....... and the international school he attended was founded by the Dutch and co-ed. Obama was never a Muslim. Remember that there have always been large numbers of ex-pats working in Indonesia.

----------


## Victory

> Isn't Bill Kristol a Conservative?


Bill Kristol is one of those "Progressive Republicans."  Think "Lindsey Graham" and "John McCain" kinda guy.  Sooda says "neo-con" and that's pretty accurate.

Many people consider him a traitor to conservative and constitutional thought.  I might agree with them.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> Well I had a chance to visit both Iran and Iraq many times and so I've read a bit about their history over the past 40 years.. and in particular how the British got mired down in Iraq for so long.. I was very opposed to Dubya's war, but I don't think he could have foreseen what would happen or that ISIS would emerge.. and. I think he was naïve about Maliki.


Of course Bush couldn't have foreseen the rise of Isis.

Who but another Rodent would have foreseen the election of a muslim traitor in the first place?

----------


## Virgil Jones

> No question, but suicide is forbidden in Islam just as it is for Christians and Jews. These ISIS guys are beyond the pale..


I don't think they consider martyrdom to be suicide. I think they expect their 70 virgins

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Of course Bush couldn't have foreseen the rise of Isis.
> 
> Who but another Rodent would have foreseen the election of a muslim traitor in the first place?


I am sorry, but I am not following you..

----------


## Network

> Bill Kristol is one of those "Progressive Republicans."  Think "Lindsey Graham" and "John McCain" kinda guy.  Sooda says "neo-con" and that's pretty accurate.
> 
> Many people consider him a traitor to conservative and constitutional thought.  I might agree with them.


*From Memoirs of a Trotskyist by Irving Kristol - PBS*


Neocon...Trotskyite

----------


## sooda

> I don't think they consider martyrdom to be suicide. I think they expect their 70 virgins


There are no 70 virgins in the Koran..

----------


## Victory

> Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?




You're welcome.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015),Virgil Jones (01-20-2015)

----------


## Virgil Jones

> There are no 70 virgins in the Koran..


Well you know, Fox News, we hear all kinds of shit LOL

----------


## Virgil Jones

> You're welcome.


You make a very strong argument, I am convinced

----------


## Network

I hear there are top secret photos.
And some code words in Obama's ghostwritten books (by agent Bill Ayers, from the Weathermen hoax).

Oh but the books do mention Frank Marshall as a fatherly figure to poor young confused Obozo.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> I hear there are top secret photos.
> And some code words in Obama's ghostwritten books (by agent Bill Ayers, from the Weathermen hoax).
> 
> Oh but the books do mention Frank Marshall as a fatherly figure to poor young confused Obozo.


Funny how secretive they have been from day one about the Annointed One

----------


## sooda

> You're welcome.


Barak looks just like his mother.............. not Marshall Davis.

----------


## Victory

> Arabs LOVE green


Now that's odd.  Why do you suppose that?

Why didn't you mention black and white?  Do they love black and white?  'Cuz they're all over their flags too.  What do those colors mean?  What about red?  Why is red on a whole bunch of Arab flags too?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-18-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Arabs LOVE green ..


Careful!  Sounds a bit like saying, "Black people LOVE fried chicken."  I'm sure that's not the direction you wanted to go.

Americans love green too. . .but we didn't put that on our flag.  What's the green all about?

----------


## sooda

> Now that's odd.  Why do you suppose that?
> 
> Why didn't you mention black and white?  Do they love black and white?  'Cuz they're all over their flags too.  What do those colors mean?  What about red?  Why is red on a whole bunch of Arab flags too?


Look at the Swiss flag or the Red Cross flag.. Your argument is very lame.

----------


## sooda

> Careful!  Sounds a bit like saying, "Black people LOVE fried chicken."  I'm sure that's not the direction you wanted to go.
> 
> Americans love green too. . .but we didn't put that on our flag.  What's the green all about?


The Saudis love green because they live in a desert...

----------


## Sled Dog

> A *caliphate* is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.
> 
> This leadership is conferred by consensus.. I think through the Shura..  ISIS is a dreaded enemy in the Muslim world.


In other words, anyone can be the Caliph is he's got enough guns.

Amazing how that works.

Isis looks like a pretty good contender.

----------


## Victory

> Barak looks just like his mother.............. not Marshall Davis.


He looks like the white girl?  Okay.  If you say so.

Heh.  This is just too easy.



Obama and mother:  Mouth, chin, some eyes, some nose
Obama and Davis:  head shape, eyes, nose, cheeks
Obama and Obama Sr.:  NOT head shape, NOT cheeks, NOT eyes

Come on!

----------

Virgil Jones (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> In other words, anyone can be the Caliph is he's got enough guns.
> 
> Amazing how that works.
> 
> Isis looks like a pretty good contender.


They only number about 17,000.. ISIS will be defeated.. Everybody is hunting them.

----------


## sooda

> He looks like the white girl?  Okay.  If you say so.
> 
> Heh.  This is just too easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Obama and mother:  Mouth, chin, some eyes, some nose
> Obama and Davis:  head shape, eyes, nose, cheeks
> Obama and Obama Sr.:  NOT head shape, NOT cheeks, NOT eyes
> ...


Ann Dunham                           graduated from Mercer Island High School in Washington                           State, in 1960.  Obama was born in August of 1961.. Now where's your proof.. Do you have DNA??

----------


## Sled Dog

> Both Obama's father and stepfather were atheists.. Do you think that all "Muslims" are pious and observant?


They were both socialists, which means they could not be atheists.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Ann Dunham                           graduated from Mercer Island High School in Washington                           State, in 1960.  Obama was born in August of 1961.. Now where's your proof.. Do you have DNA??


Her name was STANLEY, not "Ann".

She went through life as a tape measure, or a tape worm, or something like that.

----------

Virgil Jones (01-20-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> They only number about 17,000.. ISIS will be defeated.. Everybody is hunting them.


Uh huh.

There's only one tooth fairy.   Nobody's ever caught him, have they?


If you haven't noticed, I don't waste time posting valid responses to invalid posts.

----------


## sooda

> Her name was STANLEY, not "Ann".
> 
> She went through life as a tape measure, or a tape worm, or something like that.


Yes, Stanley is a family surname.. I have known girls named Stanley.. 

Do you have DNA to prove that Marshall is Obama's father?

----------


## Sled Dog

> Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?


The fact that King Ebola has presented not just one, but TWO forgeries he claimed were "birth certificates" and the file copy in Hawaii has never been released.

Why did King Ebola present TWO fake photoshopped images instead of the real document?

----------


## sooda

> They were both socialists, which means they could not be atheists.



What religion do socialists practice or profess?

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Good grief.. where is the evidence that Marshall Davis fathered Obama?


They bear a remarkable resemblance to each other.

----------


## sooda

> They bear a remarkable resemblance to each other.


Not to me they don't... I am a bit sensitive about slander when there is zero evidence of the lie.

----------


## Sled Dog

> I can't even imagine strapping a bomb to a little white girl, and sending her to blow up "enemies". There is a sickness with Islam, that cannot be overstated


Ummm....your post would be more credible if you hadn't said "white".

----------

Virgil Jones (01-20-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> Catholic grade schools don't teach Islam....... and the international school he attended was founded by the Dutch and co-ed. Obama was never a Muslim. Remember that there have always been large numbers of ex-pats working in Indonesia.


Oh, bullshit.

He was raised in Indonesia by a muslim step-father, and Stanley had NO associations with Christianity, NONE.

King Ebola is a muslim who can tell the turd world that the awful squalling from the minarets in muslim-land is the "prettiest sound in the world".

 King Ebola's Muslim Childhood

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Not to me they don't... I am a bit sensitive about slander when there is zero evidence of the lie.


well then you probably won't like it here, margot.

----------


## sooda

> Oh, bullshit.
> 
> He was raised in Indonesia by a muslim step-father, and Stanley had NO associations with Christianity, NONE.
> 
> King Ebola is a muslim who can tell the turd world that the awful squalling from the minarets in muslim-land is the "prettiest sound in the world".


He lived in Indonesia for three years and for two of those years he went to Catholic school .. then to a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.. and his step father was not an observant Muslim.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Not to me they don't... I am a bit sensitive about slander when there is zero evidence of the lie.


And so you support the Rodents because....?

I am sensitive to happy feel good horseshit.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Sled Dog

> He lived in Indonesia for three years and for two of those years he went to Catholic school .. then to a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.. and his step father was not an observant Muslim.


It was an "all religions" school that taught little muslims little muslim things and little humans little human things.

----------


## sooda

> And so you support the Rodents because....?
> 
> I am sensitive to happy feel good horseshit.


Rodents? I am still curious about the religion of socialists.

----------


## sooda

> It was an "all religions" school that taught little muslims little muslim things and little humans little human things.


Have you ever been to an international school? I have .. You're FOS.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Rodents? I am still curious about the religion of socialists.


A religion is an organized system of beliefs that is not consistent with observations of the real world.

NOTHING is less consistent with the real world than socialism.  You people continue to BELIEVE no matter what reality shows you.

Rodents.

Self-explanatory to those that have been self-aware for longer than two decades.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Have you ever been to an international school? I have .. You're FOS.


Don't recall saying King Ebola went to an international school.

He went to an INDONESIAN SCHOOL, the application for which listed his citizenship as INDONESIAN and his religion as ISLAM.

You should quit trying to move the markers around.    Reality is as it is, not as you wish it to be.  Reality is not the socialist's friend.

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Don't recall saying King Ebola went to an international school.
> 
> He went to an INDONESIAN SCHOOL, the application for which listed his citizenship as INDONESIAN and his religion as ISLAM.
> 
> You should quit trying to move the markers around.    Reality is as it is, not as you wish it to be.  Reality is not the socialist's friend.



LOLOL.. The name of the school starts with a B.. I can't recall the spelling, but its a Dutch international school.. for expat kids.

Obama couldn't have been an Indonesian citizen according to Indonesian law.. and since he wasn't 21 he couldn't renounce his US citizenship.. This is getting to be ridiculous..

----------


## Sled Dog

> LOLOL.. The name of the school starts with a B.. I can't recall the spelling, but its a Dutch international school.. for expat kids.
> 
> Obama couldn't have been an Indonesian citizen according to Indonesian law.. and since he wasn't 21 he couldn't renounce his US citizenship.. This is getting to be ridiculous..


He didn't have a US citizenship to renounce, since his momma wasn't old enough to confer citizenship on the child born in Kenya.

----------


## sooda

> He didn't have a US citizenship to renounce, since his momma wasn't old enough to confer citizenship on the child born in Kenya.


LOLOL.. You have entered the realm of kookery.. She didn't have to "confer citizenship".. A woman's citizenship doesn't activate at a given age.. That's patently nuts. Look on the inside cover of YOUR US passport.. it says where you were born.. and you can't get into the US or into Indonesia without a passport.. Obama has had one since 1967.

You will also note that your US passport doesn't designate your religion either.

If he was born in Kenya.. and that's impossible considering it was 1961... all his mother would have to do is contact the nearest US Consulate and get the baby a passport.. as a natural born US citizen.. Americans have babies overseas ever day.. and that is how its done.

----------


## Victory

> Ann Dunham                           graduated from Mercer Island High School in Washington                           State, in 1960.  Obama was born in August of 1961.. Now where's your proof.. Do you have DNA??


 :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

Y'know, I was wondering what your standards were.  So you want DNA, huh?  Well, I'll see what I can do.  I'll try to get a hair sample or Q-tip mouth swab from Barack Obama.  Would that satisfy you?

Getting a DNA sample from Ann Dunham and Frank Marshall Davis may be a little bit more difficult than getting one from the POTUS.  Until that time we have pictures.  And you must admit. . .Barack Jr. looks a HELL of a lot like Frank Marshall Davis.

But the nation would never elect the son of Frank Marshall Davis.  And after we elected him twice, there'd be no point in admitting the lie, right?  Why come clean now?  To relieve the stress of carrying around a lie?  Na!  If he couldn't carry that lie to the grave he could never carry the mountain of lies through a mere 8 year double term.  Carrying around the lie of his true father is child's play compared to the lies he has over his head now.

----------


## Victory

> I lived with them..  They are like Calvanists.. no frills, but they certainly aren't hostile or violent.


No.  You visited them.

Which is it?  Did you visit them or live with them?

----------


## Victory

> Franklin Graham said something like that.. He thinks Islam is carried in sperm and Judaism is carried in eggs. Living in a predominantly Muslim country.. or Arab country doesn't mean one is a Muslim.. anymore than all Americans being observant Christians.


Now we're talking "living in a country?"  It's getting pretty tough to keep track of where these goal posts are moving.

  I thought Barack Sr. was from Kenya.  Where is "Muslimistan?"

----------


## Victory

> *"The seed of Muslim is passed through the father."* * Franklin Graham on Thursday, August 19th, 2010 in an interview on CNN
> *


Sorry.  Should I give a shit who Franklin Graham is?  It would appear your link indicates that quote is "mostly false."  Is this your counter to Pregnar Kraps asking, "Twist the truth much?"

----------


## Victory

> What religion do socialists practice or profess?


Last time I checked, it was worship of man over God.

----------


## Victory

> Not to me they don't...


Really!  Frank Marshall Davis bears no resemblance to Barack Jr?




> I am a bit sensitive about slander when there is zero evidence of the lie


So sue me.

----------


## Victory

> There are no 70 virgins in the Koran..


Have you read the Koran?  It's the most god awful piece of shit ever constructed! It's utterly mind numbing!  Nothing but repetition of "Praise Allah" and "kill the transgressors" over and over and over and over and

over and

over

Oh good Lord!  Nobody can read more than five pages of that tripe!

Seriously, read this crap and tell me you don't want to claw your eyes out after five pages.

http://quran.com/1

Holy crap!  Give it a fucking rest!  Move the hell on!  Talk about something different!  Tell me a story!  Something!  Anything but this broken record bullshit!

----------


## Victory

> The Saudis love green because they live in a desert...


 :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

No dear.  They love green because it is "the color of Islam."  You sure you've been there?

----------


## Victory

> Look at the Swiss flag or the Red Cross flag.. Your argument is very lame.


The red on a Swiss flag is NOT the red of an Arab flag.

The red on an Arab flag is a reminder of the Hashemite dynasty--the leaders of the Arab revolt of WWI.  This has nothing to do with the Swiss flag.

Did Virgil actually say you were "formidable?"

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> There are no 70 virgins in the Koran..


 You are correct and the more they keep saying it doesn't make it true.

----------


## sooda

> The red on a Swiss flag is NOT the red of an Arab flag.
> 
> The red on an Arab flag is a reminder of the Hashemite dynasty--the leaders of the Arab revolt of WWI.  This has nothing to do with the Swiss flag.
> 
> Did Virgil actually say you were "formidable?"


The Arab revolt under the Hashemites was a complete dud.. Why do you suppose poor TE Lawrence left so quickly and was so disgusted?

----------


## sooda

> Have you read the Koran?  It's the most god awful piece of shit ever constructed! It's utterly mind numbing!  Nothing but repetition of "Praise Allah" and "kill the transgressors" over and over and over and over and
> 
> over and
> 
> over
> 
> Oh good Lord!  Nobody can read more than five pages of that tripe!
> 
> Seriously, read this crap and tell me you don't want to claw your eyes out after five pages.
> ...


Oh my.. sounds like you only read five pages.

----------


## QuaseMarco

> That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.


This became more complicated when he became POTUS but he can say that he did his best. TRAITOR!

----------


## QuaseMarco

> The quote from Barack Obama in his 2006 book _'Audacity Of Hope'_.  In it, Obama was pointing out America's 'troubled' history with races of people other than 'white'. Obama referenced the herding of Japanese-Americans into internment camps during WWII as one example.  He was stating that if a backlash against Muslims due to terrorism by Muslims broke out in the U.S., he would defend them.  How noble of him.  In reality, very few incidents of violence against Muslims has occured in America.  A Jew is far more likely to be assaulted for his religion than a Muslim.
> 
> Obama, by his actions, has made it clear that he is highly sympathetic to Islam and refuses to even call Islamic terrorism by it's name.  I don't believe a narcissist such as Obama could be a practicing Muslim but I do think Obama is far too supportive of Islam and refuses to face jihadist threats seriously, which could have a very bad outcome for our nation as the Islamic terrorist threat grows exponentially.  
> 
> *Jim*


I have *no doubt* that in his heart, Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. His tryst with Christianity was merely for political expediency.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Jim Scott (01-19-2015),Victory (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> You are correct and the more they keep saying it doesn't make it true.


There are some 30 allegories about paradise in the Koran and they would seem to be natural for a people living in a harsh, desert environment.. but key to this allegories is that paradise is the presence of God..  Hell is the absence of God.

----------


## patrickt

> That is of course a quote by Barack Obama. It is in his own book. Not sure what it means, anybody have any ideas? We are facing a war with Muslims after all.


I think it's pretty clear. Barack Obama will stand by anyone who will cheer Rev. Wright screaming, "God Damn America." That's our president. Can the Democrats find anyone who hates America like that to replace the Annointed One?

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## QuaseMarco

> What do you think of Erdogan's recent bizarre statements?


From what I see he is talking out both sides of his mouth. He IS very fearful of terrorist retaliation inside Turkey.

----------


## QuaseMarco

> I think it's pretty clear. Barack Obama will stand by anyone who will cheer Rev. Wright screaming, "God Damn America." That's our president. Can the Democrats find anyone who hates America like that to replace the Annointed One?


It was the perfect church for his phony Christian conversion.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Tessa

It should be obvious to everyone by now Obama supports Islam and Islamists and chooses to look the other way regarding their brutality. If he was white, he'd be in prison by now for his various acts of treason and his refusal to protect America from these savage beasts. They don't even deserve to be called human.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Sled Dog (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> It should be obvious to everyone by now Obama supports Islam and Islamists and chooses to look the other way regarding their brutality. If he was white, he'd be in prison by now for his various acts of treason and his refusal to protect America from these savage beasts. They don't even deserve to be called human.


What "acts of treason".... and how has he failed to protect America?

----------


## Canadianeye

> It was the perfect church for his phony Christian conversion.


No kidding. The church that spews hatred of America, and the first President to truly hate America.

A match made in some place, that is definitely not heaven.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),Sled Dog (01-20-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> They are absolutely NOT bankrolling terrorists.. I know that every talking head blames Saudi Arabia which is real easy for them to do because they don't know a bloody thing about the Saudis.
> 
> Lots of people use the word Wahhabi and don't have a clue what they are talking about..


You know this how? 





> *Wikileaks: Saudis 'chief funders of al-Qaeda'*
> 
> *Private individuals in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states friendly to the United States are the chief source of funding for al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other terrorist groups, according to leaked US diplomatic cables.*
> 
> 
> 05 Dec 2010
> 
> 
> Despite extensive efforts to limit the distribution of funds to extremists from the Middle East, the documents show deep frustration in Washington with the level of co-operation from governments in the region.
> ...



It is you who doesn't have a clue about Islamic terrorism. Your failed attempt to talk down to us is pathetic.

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## sooda

> You know this how? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is you who doesn't have a clue about Islamic terrorism. Your failed attempt to talk down to us is pathetic.


You do understand that there was NO state behind the 9/11 attack.. and no support for terrorists.. They have more day to day troubles with terrorists than we do.. 

Be advised anyone can have an opinion and anyone can write a cable.

----------


## DonGlock26

> You mean "schools" for small boys in Pakistan? Yes, education in Pakistan is dismal...These small schools (20-30 students) are for boys between the ages of 7- 14.. They teach the rudiments of reading, writing, arithmetic , geography and religion... They don't teach terrorism or Arab nationalism.
> 
> I remember the Grand Mosque seizure..  They claimed some young guy was the Mahdi and he was shot dead on the spot.


No, he didn't mean the little fairy tale that you created there to suit your rhetorical desperation. 





> *How Saudi petrodollars fuel rise of Salafism*
> 
> 
> Latest update : 2012-09-30
> 
> Since the 2011 Arab revolts, a loose network of underground zealots has evolved into a potent and highly vocal force. Behind the remarkable rise of Salafism lies the worlds leading producer of oil  and extremist Islam: Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> When protesters incensed by an anti-Muslim video scaled the walls of the US embassy in Cairo on September 11, tearing down the Stars and Stripes, a black flag could be seen floating above the battered compound. From Sanaa, in Yemen, to Libyas Benghazi, the same black banner, emblem of the Salafists, soon became a ubiquitous sight as anti-US protests spread like wildfire across the Arab world. The 2011 Arab uprisings have served the Salafists well. With the old dictators gone, a once subterranean network of hardliners has sprung into prominence  funded by a wealthy Gulf patron locked in a post-Arab Spring rivalry with a fellow Gulf monarchy.
> ...

----------


## DonGlock26

> I want the full context of the quote.
> 
> There is a fair amount of bigotry against Muslims in America. Some of their Mosqirs are fir rbombed, and other things.
> 
> So, because I am a big believer in freedom of religion and the Constitution, if it came right down to conflict between white racist Christians and them, I will side with them myself.
> 
> I really don't much care for the bigotry against them and I will not support it.
> 
> But please, don't mistake me as a liberal terrorists enabler. I do not support terrorism either, and I want to see the miltiary used to put an end to them all no matter where they may roam.
> ...


How is France's higher population of Muslims working out for them?

----------


## Coolwalker

He is standing where he has stood since birth.

----------


## sooda

> No, he didn't mean the little fairy tale that you created there to suit your rhetorical desperation.


I think that Mali has NOTHING to do with Wahabism or Salafi. Most of the jerks who call themselves Wahabi are not.. and the self aggrandizing pundits don't know either.. I would bet not one of them ever spent more than 4 days in Arabia if they ever were there at all..

9/11 was hatched in Hamburg by and Egyptian crackpot and it was a cheap scheme ... probably cost less than a half million dollars.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Yeah Obama was a real genius when he supported the Arab Spring, and the petulant withdrawal from Iraq


The Obama admin supported the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Egypt. The Army stepped in when the MB tried to seize power outside 
of the constitutional limits. Now, the leader of Egypt is calling for imams to stop preaching hatred and terrorism. 
Instead of supporting him, Obama is silent about it.

----------


## sooda

> The Obama admin supported the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood to power in Egypt. The Army stepped in when the MB tried to seize power outside 
> of the constitutional limits. Now, the leader of Egypt is calling for imams to stop preaching hatred and terrorism. 
> Instead of supporting him, Obama is silent about it.


If Obama backs Sisi, he will appear to be a US stooge.................

----------


## DonGlock26

> So what are you Christians doing to smooth over the crime and violence you guys have committed around the world and here in America?
> 
> Because, if that's really the rules you want to live by, I can see no difference between the two of you.
> 
> If we have to live by those rules, then so do you, and you guys need to go the way of the Dodo just like them.
> 
> Because as we all know all Christians are pedophiles and woman killers.
> 
> 
> You really don't want to play this kind of game with me.



Billions upon billions of foreign aid dollars for decades. What are Muslims doing to make up for centuries of white and black slavery?

So, what are you? An atheist without sin?

----------


## DonGlock26

> A *caliphate* is a form of Islamic government led by a caliph —a person who claims to be a political and religious successor to the prophet Muhammad and a leader of the entire Muslim community.
> 
> This leadership is conferred by consensus.. I think through the Shura..  ISIS is a dreaded enemy in the Muslim world.


Such a dreaded enemy that Muslims are flocking to their bloody banner.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Who says a Caliphate has to be good for Arabs for one to be established?  Dictatorships are not "good" for people and yet we have scores of them in the world.
> 
> Why would nearly every Arab flag fly the colors of three Caliphates if Arabs aren't really interested in establishing a Caliphate?


Islam means submission. They want to submit to an Arab caliphate should one re-establish itself.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Arabs LOVE green .. are you taking that as a sign of a desire for a Caliphate?
> 
> The only ones who want a Caliphate are the radicals who want a monthly check from the oil producers.. and resent money spent on progress in healthcare, education , clean water etc.



How did you come by this information? It sounds like the wishful thinking of a progressive.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Both Obama's father and stepfather were atheists.. Do you think that all "Muslims" are pious and observant?


Do you have a source for this?

----------


## DonGlock26

> Franklin Graham said something like that.. He thinks Islam is carried in sperm and Judaism is carried in eggs. Living in a predominantly Muslim country.. or Arab country doesn't mean one is a Muslim.. anymore than all Americans being observant Christians.


It is sharia law that makes the children of a Muslim male Muslim. 

Do you have a source for that sperm/egg comment or are you just making shit up as you go?

----------


## DonGlock26

> No way....good grief. Is this...it can't be. Are you going to claim you have been a republican/conservative most of your life? I think I remember you now...LOL


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## DonGlock26

> I lived with them..  They are like Calvanists.. no frills, but they certainly aren't hostile or violent.


So, tell us more about your life amongst the Muslims.

----------


## DonGlock26

> No he didn't.. The Hadith that makes that claims was written by a Persian scholar 200 years after Muhammed's death.. Aisha was born 5 years before the Call so she was around 17.





> The majority of traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was married to Muhammad at the age of six or seven, but she stayed in her parents' home until the age of nine, or ten according to Ibn Hisham,[7] when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina;[8][9][10]
> 
> 
>  Spellberg 1994, pp. 3940^ Jump up to:_a_ _b_ Armstrong 1992, p. 157^ Jump up to:_a_ _b_ Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:58:234, 5:58:236, 7:62:64, 7:62:65,7:62:88, Sahih Muslim, 8:3309, 8:3310, 8:3311, 41:4915,Sunan Abu Dawood, 41:4917^ Jump up to:_a_ _b_ al-Tabari 1987, p. 7, al-Tabari 1990, p. 131

----------


## DonGlock26

> No question, but suicide is forbidden in Islam just as it is for Christians and Jews. These ISIS guys are beyond the pale..


No question? I thought they were like Calvinists?

----------


## DonGlock26

> There are no 70 virgins in the Koran..


How about the hadiths?

----------


## DonGlock26

> You're welcome.


Based on that evidence, we should start looking at Stanley's postman and milkman.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Funny how secretive they have been from day one about the Annointed One


I'm interested in his trip to Pakistan. Doesn't everyone go to Pakistan during their college years?

----------


## DonGlock26

> In other words, anyone can be the Caliph is he's got enough guns.
> 
> Amazing how that works.
> 
> Isis looks like a pretty good contender.



That's how Mo the ped got what he wanted- except he used lies and swords.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Yes, Stanley is a family surname.. I have known girls named Stanley.. 
> 
> Do you have DNA to prove that Marshall is Obama's father?


You probably live in Arab lands with several girls named Stanley.

----------


## DonGlock26

> He lived in Indonesia for three years and for two of those years he went to Catholic school .. then to a co-ed International school founded by the Dutch.. and his step father was not an observant Muslim.


Founded by the Dutch? Who controlled it while Obama was there?

----------


## DonGlock26

> well then you probably won't like it here, margot.


I thought I recognized a certain Muslim apologist fanaticism.

----------

Canadianeye (01-19-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> Rodents? I am still curious about the religion of socialists.


I would call it more of pseudo-religion based on a mixture of secular humanism and Marxism.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Have you ever been to an international school? I have .. You're FOS.


Did that imbue you with some superiority complex?

----------


## sooda

> So, tell us more about your life amongst the Muslims.


It was safe and they were friendly and respectful..

I have seen mob violence and hysteria .... and we have had it here in the US from time to time. ISIS is not Wahabbi.. Nor is Boko Haram.. Its important to for Americans to be well informed  and know the difference.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ous-cleansing/

----------


## DonGlock26

> LOLOL.. The name of the school starts with a B.. I can't recall the spelling, but its a Dutch international school.. for expat kids.
> 
> Obama couldn't have been an Indonesian citizen according to Indonesian law.. and since he wasn't 21 he couldn't renounce his US citizenship.. This is getting to be ridiculous..





> *State Elementary School Menteng 01 (Indonesian: Sekolah Dasar Negeri (SDN) Menteng 01), also known as SDN Besuki or the Besuki school, is an Indonesian public school in Menteng, Jakarta.
> 
> *The school was founded in 1934 as Carpentier Alting Stichting Nassau School (CAS)[1] by the Dutch colonial administration and was reserved for the children of the Dutch and Indonesian nobility. The Indonesian government took over administration of the school in 1962, and it was then run by the Raden Saleh Foundation.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_E...ool_Menteng_01

----------


## sooda

> Did that imbue you with some superiority complex?


No. Just a good education in critical thinking.

----------


## Victory

> It was safe and they were friendly and respectful..


Well, I had tea with the wife of an Iraqi informant.  She was friendly and respectful too.  I also ran into a line of Iraqis in the airport with the look of blood in their eyes.  Make no mistake, they would have tried to kill us if there weren't armed Sherpas all around.  So I would not call them "friendly and respectful."

How is it you missed that element of the Middle East?  Are all the beheadings and fanaticism just a fairy tale?

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> I have *no doubt* that in his heart, Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. His tryst with Christianity was merely for political expediency.


Remember, his version of "Christianity" was racist black liberation theology.

----------


## DonGlock26

> There are some 30 allegories about paradise in the Koran and they would seem to be natural for a people living in a harsh, desert environment.. but key to this allegories is that paradise is the presence of God..  Hell is the absence of God.


And sex. Lots of sex.

----------


## DonGlock26

> I think it's pretty clear. Barack Obama will stand by anyone who will cheer Rev. Wright screaming, "God Damn America." That's our president. Can the Democrats find anyone who hates America like that to replace the Annointed One?


Michael Moore? He hates American military heroes.

----------


## DonGlock26

> You do understand that there was NO state behind the 9/11 attack.. and no support for terrorists.. They have more day to day troubles with terrorists than we do.. 
> 
> Be advised anyone can have an opinion and anyone can write a cable.



I asked how you know what you claimed. Are you able to answer?

----------


## Tessa

> What "acts of treason".... and how has he failed to protect America?


Do your own homework. It's easy to find. The internet awaits you.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),protectionist (01-20-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> I think that Mali has NOTHING to do with Wahabism or Salafi. Most of the jerks who call themselves Wahabi are not.. and the self aggrandizing pundits don't know either.. I would bet not one of them ever spent more than 4 days in Arabia if they ever were there at all..
> 
> 9/11 was hatched in Hamburg by and Egyptian crackpot and it was a cheap scheme ... probably cost less than a half million dollars.



Mali? Saudi money has funded Wahabism across the globe. You are in denial.

*Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is as Salafist as they come.*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaed...slamic_Maghreb

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## Victory

> It was safe and they were friendly and respectful..
> 
> I have seen mob violence and hysteria .... and we have had it here in the US from time to time. ISIS is not Wahabbi.. Nor is Boko Haram.. Its important to for Americans to be well informed  and know the difference.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ous-cleansing/


This is interesting  @sooda.

Tell me, does Israel have the right to exist?

----------


## sooda

> I asked how you know what you claimed. Are you able to answer?


Long experience and the 70 year track record of the SAG..

----------


## Victory

> The Arab revolt under the Hashemites was a complete dud.. Why do you suppose poor TE Lawrence left so quickly and was so disgusted?


Because Sykes-Picot was destroying everything he worked for.  But let's not change the subject.  What the hell does the Swiss flag have to do with the Hashemite Dynasty?

----------


## sooda

> This is interesting  @sooda.
> 
> Tell me, does Israel have the right to exist?


Obviously they do, but that is not a justification for their behavior.

----------


## Victory

> Oh my.. sounds like you only read five pages.


How much have you read?

----------


## sooda

> Because Sykes-Picot was destroying everything he worked for.  But let's not change the subject.  What the hell does the Swiss flag have to do with the Hashemite Dynasty?


I am not hung up on the color of various flags.

----------


## sooda

> How much have you read?


All of it.. and studied with a Muslim judge.

----------


## Victory

> I am not hung up on the color of various flags.


Then you don't know what they stand for.  Got it.

----------


## DonGlock26

> If Obama backs Sisi, he will appear to be a US stooge.................


Obama is a Muslim Brotherhood stooge, so I think el-Sisi is safe. BTW- what do you think of his telling the imams to reform Islam?
Couldn't that prevent a global cultural war?

----------


## sooda

> Obama is a Muslim Brotherhood stooge, so I think el-Sisi is safe. BTW- what do you think of his telling the imams to reform Islam?
> Couldn't that prevent a global cultural war?


That has been going on for a while.. The call to reform.. I guess its been 3-4 years in Arabia.. Young educated clerics announced that much of what passes for Islam was in fact, tribal practices that were carried over..

http://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/691596

Further, the Saudis have warned about the globalization of terror.. Heck they warned the UK well over a decade ago..

----------


## DonGlock26

> It was safe and they were friendly and respectful..
> 
> I have seen mob violence and hysteria .... and we have had it here in the US from time to time. ISIS is not Wahabbi.. Nor is Boko Haram.. Its important to for Americans to be well informed  and know the difference.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ous-cleansing/


Safe in a Western visitor area? Big deal. Besides, how years ago was it? It use to be safe to visit Egypt. 
Now, Western Journalists are gang-raped in public squares and Western tourists are slain while trying
 to see ancient Egyptian ruins.

What we are seeing is the Clash of Civilizations that Samuel P. Huntington warned us about. 


I see a certain desperation in your attempts to disassociate Saudi Arabia from their exportation of extremist Islamist views. 





> *You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia*
> 
> 
> Alastair Crooke 
> Fmr. MI-6 agent; Author, 'Resistance: The Essence of Islamic Revolution'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## DonGlock26

> *BRIEF HISTORY 1741- 1818*
> 
> Abd al-Wahhab's advocacy of these ultra radical views inevitably led to his expulsion from his own town -- and in 1741, after some wanderings, he found refuge under the protection of Ibn Saud and his tribe. What Ibn Saud perceived in Abd al-Wahhab's novel teaching was the means to overturn Arab tradition and convention. It was a path to seizing power. 
> 
> *"Their strategy -- like that of ISIS today -- was to bring the peoples whom they conquered into submission. They aimed to instill fear. "*
> 
> 
> 
> Ibn Saud's clan, seizing on Abd al-Wahhab's doctrine, now could do what they always did, which was raiding neighboring villages and robbing them of their possessions. Only now they were doing it not within the ambit of Arab tradition, but rather under the banner of_ jihad_. Ibn Saud and Abd al-Wahhab also reintroduced the idea of martyrdom in the name of jihad, as it granted those martyred immediate entry into paradise. 
> ...

----------


## Victory

> Obviously they do, but that is not a justification for their behavior.


That's a little weak.  What is their "behavior?"  Self defense?

----------

Jim Scott (01-19-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> No. Just a good education in critical thinking.


Funny, I've never seen you think critically about the Saudis.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Long experience and the 70 year track record of the SAG..


Listen, claims of special knowledge is proof of nothing. So far, when you have been asked for concrete proof of your claims, you have failed to produce 
anything of merit. I've questioned your position and you have been unable to defend it. Period.

----------


## DonGlock26

> All of it.. and studied with a Muslim judge.


Can you explain how abrogation works with the Koran verses that dispute each other?

----------

Victory (01-19-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> That has been going on for a while.. The call to reform.. I guess its been 3-4 years in Arabia.. Young educated clerics announced that much of what passes for Islam was in fact, tribal practices that were carried over..
> 
> http://www.arabnews.com/columns/news/691596
> 
> Further, the Saudis have warned about the globalization of terror.. Heck they warned the UK well over a decade ago..


Really, which heads of state have matched Sisi's injunction upon the imams?

----------


## Victory

> It was safe and they were friendly and respectful..
> 
> I have seen mob violence and hysteria .... and* we have had it here in the US from time to time*. ISIS is not Wahabbi.. Nor is Boko Haram.. Its important to for Americans to be well informed  and know the difference.
> 
> http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...ous-cleansing/


So. . .you're trying to draw some broader similarity between the Middle East and the US?

Please, expand on that.  Tell me some more similarities.

----------


## sooda

> So. . .you're trying to draw some broader similarity between the Middle East and the US?
> 
> Please, expand on that.  Tell me some more similarities.


Home invasions, car jackings, murder, rape, labor riots, lynchings and the Tulsa riot and  massacre of 1921.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> I want the full context of the quote.
> 
> There is a fair amount of bigotry against Muslims in America. Some of their Mosqirs are fir rbombed, and other things.
> 
> So, because I am a big believer in freedom of religion and the Constitution, if it came right down to conflict between white racist Christians and them, I will side with them myself.
> 
> I really don't much care for the bigotry against them and I will not support it.
> 
> But please, don't mistake me as a liberal terrorists enabler. I do not support terrorism either, and I want to see the miltiary used to put an end to them all no matter where they may roam.
> ...


How do you propose we stop this kind of thing being added to America's already _"up to here"_ social problems?




Or is this acceptable to you?

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Home invasions, car jackings, murder, rape, labor riots, lynchings and the Tulsa riot and  massacre of 1921.


Well, how about we bring our "Home invasions, car jackings, murder, rape, labor riots, lynchings" and race riots and massacres to the Middle East and move there to stay and to take over the countries there, permanently?

Is that okay to you sooda?

----------


## Victory

> Home invasions, car jackings, murder, rape, labor riots, lynchings and the Tulsa riot and  massacre of 1921.


Gosh!  So The United States is JUST like the Middle East!  Is that right?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-19-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Obviously they do, but that is not a justification for their behavior.


Well. . .obviously other Muslims don't think so.  But they also use similar weasel words as in your quote.  How do you separate yourself from them?  What do you think about this woman?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-19-2015)

----------


## QuaseMarco

> Home invasions, car jackings, murder, rape, labor riots, lynchings and the Tulsa riot and  massacre of 1921.


1921 !? Who are you?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-19-2015),Victory (01-19-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> You mean "schools" for small boys in Pakistan? Yes, education in Pakistan is dismal...These small schools (20-30 students) are for boys between the ages of 7- 14.. They teach the rudiments of reading, writing, arithmetic , geography and religion... They don't teach terrorism or Arab nationalism.
> 
> I remember the Grand Mosque seizure..  They claimed some young guy was the Mahdi and he was shot dead on the spot.


Your post reflects a limited and alternate understanding of the matter.

(Under Construction = "I'm still preparing this response.")

PK

----------


## sooda

> Your post reflects a limited and alternate understanding of the matter.
> 
> (Under Construction = "I'm still preparing this response.")
> 
> PK


What makes you an expert? Have you toured any Arab schools?

Read the Wahabbi Myth.

----------


## Victory

> Well. . .obviously other Muslims don't think so.  But they also use similar weasel words as in your quote.  How do you separate yourself from them?  What do you think about this woman?


Hello?   @sooda ?

Try not to skip over a revealing reply like this.  Try to answer it without moving the goal posts.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> Try not to skip over a revealing reply like this.  Try to answer it without moving the goal posts


 And Jews support rounding up Muslims and killing them. In fact it's just not a threat, they have succeeded in Gaza, West bank and Syria.

----------


## Dan40

> And Jews support rounding up Muslims and killing them. In fact it's just not a threat, they have succeeded in Gaza, West bank and Syria.


We need their procedures.


EVERY muslims that is not actively, loudly, and VICIOUSLY opposing the islamic terrorists, IS PART OF THE PROBLEM, not part of the solution.

----------


## Roadmaster

> We need their procedures.


 We don't need to kill Christians or put them in harms way for them. Israel will bomb Christian villages in Syria and nothing is said. People make me sick.

----------


## Dan40

Very odd.  You post:




> And Jews support rounding up Muslims and  killing them. In fact it's just not a threat, they have succeeded in  Gaza, West bank and Syria.


I agree with that, so then you post:





> We don't need to kill Christians or put them in harms way for them. Israel will bomb Christian villages in Syria and nothing is said. People make me sick.



How did you make the quantum leap from rounding up muslims to bombing Christian villages?

----------


## Roadmaster

> Very odd.  You post:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with that, so then you post:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I believe a people have a right to defend themselves if attacked. I do not believe people have a right to attack and attack and then say they are defending themselves when they attack back. Willing to bomb a Christian village to get Christians on their side blaming another is a disgrace and lie. Christian life's means nothing to them over there on both sides but it should to Americans.

----------


## Dan40

> I believe a people have a right to defend themselves if attacked. I do not believe people have a right to attack and attack and then say they are defending themselves when they attack back. Willing to bomb a Christian village to get Christians on their side blaming another is a disgrace and lie. Christian life's means nothing to them over there on both sides but it should to Americans.


Blah, blah, blah.  That is in no way related to jaws rounding up muslims.  And that is what you posted and I commented on.  You are free to start a thread about Christians being killed by both sides.

But for now, we could use the Israelis procedures on rounding up muslims.

----------


## Jim Scott

> Well, I am sorry that's what you have been told.. Al Wahabs's objective was to get rid of the innovations that had crept into Islam and rid the Arabian peninsula of the Turks.. The Ottoman Caliphate was very bad for the Arab world... it descended into abject poverty and illiteracy.
> 
> I knew lots of CIA guys in Arabia.. They didn't agree with the BS that's coming from "former" CIA who are trying to make a living blogging and doing TV appearances as self styled "experts".. Heck, most of them never set foot in Arabia.


Specious denials of reality are typical of apologists for Obama, Islam's murderous theology and, in this case, the Saudi funding of Muslim terrorist groups.  Others have sufficiently responded to this kind of denial, usually posted with a suggestion of specialized knowledge that often proves to be false or highly exaggerated, at best.    

However, this site is intended to offer a platform for opinions and, while this overlong thread is necessarily argumentative, it serves that purpose.  Readers and posters will draw their own conclusions.  
*
Jim*

----------


## sooda

> Specious denials of reality are typical of apologists for Obama, Islam's murderous theology and, in this case, the Saudi funding of Muslim terrorist groups.  Others have sufficiently responded to this kind of denial, usually posted with a suggestion of specialized knowledge that often proves to be false or highly exaggerated, at best.    
> 
> However, this site is intended to offer a platform for opinions and, while this overlong thread is necessarily argumentative, it serves that purpose.  Readers and posters will draw their own conclusions.  
> *
> Jim*


Really.. and have you lived with Muslims for many years?

----------


## Roadmaster

Who should I trust, mostly liberals or Muslims. Tick tock tick tock, NONE>

----------


## Victory

> And Jews support rounding up Muslims and killing them. In fact it's just not a threat, they have succeeded in Gaza, West bank and Syria.


Yeah!  Those dirty Jews!  The only thing the Muslims did was try to wipe them off the face of the earth!  The punishment of self-defense hardly fits the crime of genocide!   :Moron:

----------


## sooda

> Who should I trust, mostly liberals or Muslims. Tick tock tick tock, NONE>


Well, I am neither a Muslim nor a liberal.

----------


## Victory

> Really.. and have you lived with Muslims for many years?


Well, you certainly haven't.  You said you *visited*.

Are you inflating your experience?

----------


## sooda

> Yeah!  Those dirty Jews!  The only thing the Muslims did was try to wipe them off the face of the earth!  The punishment of self-defense hardly fits the crime of genocide!


The European refugees killed over 500 British peacekeepers before 1948.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Yeah!  Those dirty Jews!  The only thing the Muslims did was try to wipe them off the face of the earth!  The punishment of self-defense hardly fits the crime of genocide!


 Whatever, I don't side with liberals no matter what they call themselves.

----------


## Victory

> Well, I am neither a Muslim nor a liberal.


Hello?   @sooda ?

Why are you avoiding this?




> Well. . .obviously other Muslims don't think so.  But they also use similar weasel words as in your quote.  How do you separate yourself from them?  What do you think about this woman?


Does it make you feel uncomfortable?  Do you agree with the woman in the video and would just rather not talk about it?

Your silence speaks volumes.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> Well, I am neither a Muslim nor a liberal.


 I didn't think you were.

----------


## Victory

> I believe a people have a right to defend themselves if attacked. I do not believe people have a right to attack and attack and then say they are defending themselves when they attack back.


I must have missed the public statement Hamas, Hezbollah and a score of other anti-Semitic orgs issued retracting their vow to kill every last Jew on the face of the Earth.  Let's have a look at that statement so I can change my mind about the need for Israel to defend itself.

I'll wait for your link.

----------


## Roadmaster

> I must have missed the public statement Hamas, Hezbollah and a score of other anti-Semitic orgs issued retracting their vow to kill every last Jew on the face of the Earth.  Let's have a look at that statement so I can change my mind about the need for Israel to defend itself.
> 
> I'll wait for your link.


 Just like when they said Iran did. I watched his speech and he said only if they were attacked would he strike back and then they came out with "Iran want's to wipe Israel off the map". So they threaten Iran, Iran says something back and all of a sudden it's Iran.

----------


## sooda

> Well, you certainly haven't.  You said you *visited*.
> 
> Are you inflating your experience?



I visited several Middle Eastern countries repeatedly for a month at a time or a week at a time.. and I lived in one for nearly 2 decades.

----------


## Victory

> 1921 !? Who are you?


Clearly, sooda is a person at least 94 years old because she remembers the great Tulsa riot massacre of 1921 and hasn't lived it down yet.  I believe her battle cry is, "Remember the Tulsa riot massacre of 1921!"

----------


## Victory

> Just like when they said Iran did. I watched his speech and he said only if they were attacked would he strike back and then they came out with "Iran want's to wipe Israel off the map". So they threaten Iran, Iran says something back and all of a sudden it's Iran.


That's because Iran has never waivered from exterminating them.  You are confusing a regrouping and retrenchment with a peace treaty.  They are not the same.  Israel has never vowed to wipe Muslims off the Earth.  Muslim nations, orgs, and groups have vowed to exterminate every last Jew.  Peace will BEGIN when they all retract that statement.

----------


## Victory

> I visited several Middle Eastern countries repeatedly for a month at a time or a week at a time.. and I lived in one for nearly 2 decades.


That Muslim judge you studied with, was he in Jerusalem?  Was he a judge of Sharia Law?

 Why do you not want to talk about the video with the MSA student and David Horowitz?  Shall I draw a conclusion from your avoidance?

----------


## sooda

> Hello?   @sooda ?
> 
> Why are you avoiding this?
> 
> 
> 
> Does it make you feel uncomfortable?  Do you agree with the woman in the video and would just rather not talk about it?
> 
> Your silence speaks volumes.



Oh I'm not avoiding it at all.. Hamas didn't come about until the mid 1980s with the second intifada and was supported by Israel.. Sabeel, including Christians and Muslims, opposed it.. but the recruiting for Hamas took place in the meanest of the refugee camps. 

I know  Lebanon very well and have spent a great deal of time there since the very early 1950s and I am well aware of the constant provocations and incursions into Lebanon.. I have seen the refugee camps first hand and I know that the two floods of refugees out of Palestine turned Lebanon's demographics on its head. I also remember the attempts to take Lebanon's rivers.. steal topsoil... killing farm families.. I remember the "civil war" in Lebanon and Israel's attempt to install a mid-level Lebanese Christian military officer in leadership..

I was not impressed with the "mature man" at the podium.. He's glib and dishonest.. The girl was just young .

----------

Virgil Jones (01-19-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> That's because Iran has never waivered from exterminating them.  You are confusing a regrouping and retrenchment with a peace treaty.  They are not the same.  Israel has never vowed to wipe Muslims off the Earth.  Muslim nations, orgs, and groups have vowed to exterminate every last Jew.  Peace will BEGIN when they all retract that statement.


 Yes they have vowed to nuke them. How many times did they bomb Syria before ISIS. They bombed Iraq before the war. Don't tell me they don't provoke wars.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Oh I'm not avoiding it at all.. Hamas didn't come about until the mid 1980s with the second intifada and was supported by Israel.. Sabeel, including Christians and Muslims, opposed it.. but the recruiting for Hamas took place in the meanest of the refugee camps. 
> 
> I know  Lebanon very well and have spent a great deal of time there since the very early 1950s and I am well aware of the constant provocations and incursions into Lebanon.. I have seen the refugee camps first hand and I know that the two floods of refugees out of Palestine turned Lebanon's demographics on its head. I also remember the attempts to take Lebanon's rivers.. steal topsoil... killing farm families.. I remember the "civil war" in Lebanon and Israel's attempt to install a mid-level Lebanese Christian military officer in leadership..
> 
> I was not impressed with the "mature man" at the podium.. He's glib and dishonest.. The girl was just young .


I argue at "right wing" forums, the jews are the shit, the worst thing ever, I don't feel that way, perhaps I am a neocon. What are your views of jews?

----------


## sooda

> That's because Iran has never waivered from exterminating them.  You are confusing a regrouping and retrenchment with a peace treaty.  They are not the same.  Israel has never vowed to wipe Muslims off the Earth.  Muslim nations, orgs, and groups have vowed to exterminate every last Jew.  Peace will BEGIN when they all retract that statement.


Israel used to buy an awful lot of oil and gas from Iran..  I can't quite recall the name of the pipeline.. It will come to me.. After 1979 they refused to pay their bill which amounted to a couple hundred million dollars.. I think they finally settled their debt at least partially some 15 years later..

Of course Israel made life difficult for Iranian Jews who had lived there since the Babylonian exile.

----------


## Roadmaster

> I argue at "right wing" forums, the jews are the shit, the worst thing ever, I don't feel that way, perhaps I am a neocon. What are your views of jews?


 Let me answer that one because he or she is new. I don't like liberal communist Jews or any other name they call themselves. Nor do I side with Muslims. If they are liberal and communist why do you care what they call themselves, they are not for us.

----------


## sooda

> I argue at "right wing" forums, the jews are the shit, the worst thing ever, I don't feel that way, perhaps I am a neocon. What are your views of jews?


I like Jews.. have some in my family.. play cards with Jews.. and dominos.. My art teacher is a Jew.. I just can't excuse the Israelis or their government.. I find them often to be brash, dishonest and vengeful in the extreme.

----------


## Virgil Jones

> Israel used to buy an awful lot of oil and gas from Iran..  I can't quite recall the name of the pipeline.. It will come to me.. After 1979 they refused to pay their bill which amounted to a couple hundred million dollars.. I think they finally settled their debt at least partially some 15 years later..
> 
> Of course Israel made life difficult for Iranian Jews who had lived there since the Babylonian exile.


Why do people hate jews so much?

----------


## Roadmaster

> I like Jews.. have some in my family.. play cards with Jews.. and dominos.. My art teacher is a Jew.. I just can't excuse the Israelis or their government.. I find them often to be brash, dishonest and vengeful in the extreme.


 They want to play the defense game. You have to like liberal communist Jews for them to like you.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Why do people hate jews so much?


 They don't just the communist liberal ones. Why do you dislike liberals.

----------


## Virgil Jones

The Israelis exist in a strange circumstance. I realize that some on the right deny the holocaust, I kind of get that, I think others suffered just as much.

What I don't get is the refusal for Arabs to allow a very tiny strip of land to be "occupied" by jews

----------


## Virgil Jones

As far as Palestine goes, the Arabs got Jordan, which is many times larger than what is now called Israel

----------


## Virgil Jones

> They don't just the communist liberal ones. Why do you dislike liberals.


I piss on liberals every day, I just don't separate out this liberal or that

----------


## Roadmaster

> I piss on liberals every day, I just don't separate out this liberal or that


Ok, I don't support or like liberal so called Christians, Jews or any other group. 75% of the ones that call themselves Jews in America are liberals. I am not going to like them. They are against Christian values.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> What makes you an expert? Have you toured any Arab schools?
> 
> Read the Wahabbi Myth.


*Customer Review*
51 of 55 people found the following review helpful
 *The Untold Story of Islam's Worst Terrorist Attack in Its Holy Land and of the Origins of Al-Qaeda*,December 19, 2007
By 
*John Kwok*


*This review is from: The Siege of Mecca: The Forgotten Uprising in Islam's Holiest Shrine and the Birth of al-Qaeda (Hardcover)*

Reading just like a classic thriller written by the likes of Graham Greene or John Le Carre, Wall Street Journal reporter Yaroslav Trofimov's "The Siege of Mecca" is an important, comprehensive examination of the events leading up to the two-week siege of Mecca's Grand Mosque, the siege of itself, and subsequent events afterwards, which would lead inexorably to the rise of Al-Qaeda and the spectacular 9/11/01 terrorist attacks upon the United States. 

This is without question, an important event not only in contemporary Islam, but for the world too, and yet it is one that has been ignored these past few decades. Now, finally, the untold story of the 11/20/79 seizure of the Grand Mosque, has been pieced together by Trofimov, who has written what ought to be regarded as one of the most important books of the year. 

Surprisingly, Trofimov covers much terrain in what proves to be a relatively terse book on this bloody episode in recent Saudi Arabian history, emphasizing the origins, but even, the aftermath of this attack, which, he asserts was the first of many bloody incidents of Islamofascist terror leading up to the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks.

Trofimov opens with a brief, but concise, history of both the Saudi royal family, emphasizing its 20th Century history and, especially, of the fundamentalist Sunni Islam sect known as Wahhabism; a sect which has been preaching Islamic Jihad (`Holy War") against the Western infidels encroaching upon Middle Eastern land for centuries. 

He emphasizes the close, centuries-old ties between the al-Saud family and Wahhabi clerics, reminding us of an early 19th Century Saudi-led effort to conquer the entire Arabian peninsula, hoping to transform it into a Wahhabi Islamic state; an attempt defeated only by an Egyptian military force acting on behalf of the Ottoman Sultan, after more than five years of bloody warfare (The Saudi ruler was finally captured, taken to Constantinople, and beheaded there amidst "fireworks and a public celebration".). 

A century later, the Saudis were far more successful in their religiously-motivated desire for empire-building, imposing upon their newly conquered domains, a strict adherence to Wahhabi Sunni Islam, cleverly using a crack troop of fanatical Wahhabis, the Ikwan, to lead the conquest of much of Arabia from the early 1910s to the late 1920s. Eventually, however, the Ikwan revolted against the Saudis, appalled by the king's embrace of Western beliefs and technology, such as telephones, only to be crushed decisively at the March 1929 battle of Sbala. 

Years later, one of these Ikwan veterans would celebrate the birth of a son, Juhayman, the future mastermind behind the 11/20/79 seizure of the Grand Mosque.

Through Juhayman's eyes, Trofimov traces the rise of radical Islamist movements throughout the Middle East, especially Egypt, from the 1950s through 1970s. Juhayman acquires his devout, fanatical adherence to Wahhabism via service as a member of the Saudi National Guard. Eventually he's influenced strongly by the charismatic blind cleric Bin Baz; the arch foe of Saudi Arabia's incessant rush towards modernization, criticizing sales of cigarettes, displaying portraits of the royal family in public buildings, and, in particular, the emerging emancipation of Saudi women. But Juhayman would go much further than Bin Baz, by criticizing the very existence of the Saudi kingdom in a religious manifesto smuggled out of the country, and published in neighboring Kuwait. He would anoint a young religious student, Mohammed Abdullah, as Islam's Mahdi (redeemer), destined to lead the faithful at the Grand Mosque at the dawn of Islam's 14th Century (11/20/79). He would smuggle arms and munitions into the Grand Mosque, drawing elaborate plans for its seizure at the dawn of the new century; plans which nearly resulted in success.

Trofimov demonstrates that not just the Saudi ruling family, but the West, too, was caught completely off guard by Juhayman's seizure of the Grand Mosque. While some of this was attributable to a strict ban against non-Muslims entering Mecca itself; another, equally compelling, reason was the ongoing hostage crisis at the United States Embassy in Teheran, Iran (Erroneously, at first, Iran was thought to have been the foreign power responsible for the siege itself.). 

A bloody comedy of errors ensues, as ill-equipped Saudi troops try storming the mosque, only to be mowed down by superior weaponry possessed by Juhayman and his band of militants (A band that includes Afro-Americans with military training.). 

*Meanwhile, the Saudi family receives permission from leading Wahhabi clerics - including Bin Baz - to mount an all-out assault upon the mosque itself, in exchange for ending the family's modest efforts at Western-influenced modernization, and other measures which set the stage for the 9/11/01 terrorist attacks upon America itself.* 

Last, but not least, at the Saudi family's urging, France sends an elite team of anti-terrorist commandos and tear gas; it is this team that directs the final, successful assault upon the mosque.
*
Help other customers find the most helpful reviews* 
*Was this review helpful to you? * 

*Report abuse | Permalink*


http://www.amazon.com/review/RJCRJ2T...wasThisHelpful



The price of said "permission" was the promise to fund Wahhabist outreach around the world.

----------

Virgil Jones (01-19-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> Hello?   @sooda ?
> 
> Try not to skip over a revealing reply like this.  Try to answer it without moving the goal posts.


They are vile when they do not try to cover up their hatred for non-Muslims.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> As far as Palestine goes, the Arabs got Jordan, which is many times larger than what is now called Israel


If Israel promised to build up Jordan into a habitable land like the pioneering Zionists did to what is now present day Israel, I wonder if the Palestinians would at least be _tempted_ to move there.

I mean expecting anyone to move to a desert is unrealistic. But if the land were made suitable for occupancy, I wonder how many would move to a rehabbed Jordanian oasis.

----------


## DonGlock26

FYI- one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood visited the US in 1949.




> A turning point came for Sayyid Qutb in 1949 when he was sent to the United States for higher studies in educational administration. Over a two year period he worked in several different institutions including what was then Wilson Teachers' College in Washington, D.C. and Colorado State College for Education in Greeley, as well as Stanford University. He also travelled extensively visiting the major cities of the United States and spent time in Europe on the return journey to Egypt. His reaction to the Western experience was decidedly negative; he found Western society hopelessly materialistic, corrupt, morally loose, and ridden with injustice. He was especially distressed by the disrespect shown to Arabs in the United States and the overwhelming support of its people for the state of Israel, founded in 1948. One of the most popular of his books, _Social Justice in Islam_ (1948), reflects his critical attitude to the West.
> 
> http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Sayyid_Qutb.aspx#1-1G2:3404705757-full






> *Two Years in America*
> 
> Time in the United States, pursuing further studies in educational administration, cemented some of Qutb's views. Over two years, he worked and studied at what was then Wilson Teachers' College in Washington, D.C., Colorado State College for Education in Greeley, and Stanford University.[23] He visited the major cities of the United States and spent time in Europe on his journey home
> .
> On his return to Egypt, Qutb published "The America that I Have Seen." He was critical of things he had observed in the United States: its materialism, individual freedoms, economic system, racism, brutal boxingmatches, "poor" haircuts,[5] superficiality in conversations and friendships,[24] restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, lack of artistic feeling,[24] "animal-like" mixing of the sexes (which "went on even in churches"),[25] and strong support for the new Israeli state.[26] Hisham Sabrin, noted that:
> As a brown person in Greeley, Colorado in the late 40s studying English he came across much prejudice. He was appalled by what he perceived as loose sexual openness of American men and women (a far cry from his home of Musha, Asyut). This American experience was for him a fine-tuning of his Islamic identity. He himself tells us on his boat trip over Should I travel to America, and become flimsy, and ordinary, like those who are satisfied with idle talk and sleep. Or should I distinguish myself with values and spirit. Is there other than Islam that I should be steadfast to in its character and hold on to its instructions, in this life amidst deviant chaos, and the endless means of satisfying animalistic desires, pleasures, and awful sins? I wanted to be the latter man..
> 
> 
> Qutb noted with disapproval the sexuality of American women:
> ...


His teachings went on to influence Bin Laden.

----------


## sooda

> *Customer Review*
> 51 of 55 people found the following review helpful
>  *The Untold Story of Islam's Worst Terrorist Attack in Its Holy Land and of the Origins of Al-Qaeda*,December 19, 2007
> By 
> *John Kwok*
> 
> 
> *This review is from: The Siege of Mecca: The Forgotten Uprising in Islam's Holiest Shrine and the Birth of al-Qaeda (Hardcover)*
> 
> ...


Yaroslav Trofimov became a foreign correspondent in 1999... Has ever been to Saudi Arabia?

I think he's wrong about 1979 being the source of 9/11.

----------


## sooda

> FYI- one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood visited the US in 1949.
> 
> Sayyid Qutb did influence Osama Bin Laden.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His teachings went on to influence Bin Laden.

----------


## sooda

> If Israel promised to build up Jordan into a habitable land like the pioneering Zionists did to what is now present day Israel, I wonder if the Palestinians would at least be _tempted_ to move there.
> 
> I mean expecting anyone to move to a desert is unrealistic. But if the land were made suitable for occupancy, I wonder how many would move to a rehabbed Jordanian oasis.


That isn't necessary.. The Saudi Peace Initiative was about the rapid development of infrastructure and jobs for the Palestinians.. and they have lots of experience doing that.

Israel wants all the land in the West Bank, the Negev, Gaza, Shaaba Farms and the Golan as well as the rivers of Lebanon.. They have since the first Zionist Congress in 1900.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Why do people hate jews so much?


Hal Lindsey has an answer.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is so obsessed with the Palestinian/Israeli peace process that he's not even listening to the Palestinians. If he did, he'd probably turn around and go home. 


A few weeks ago, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas confirmed the famous "Three Noes" of the 1967 Arab League Khartoum Summit by announcing his own three "noes." 


In a fiery speech from his Ramallah headquarters, Abbas proclaimed that there would be no giving up the Palestinian "right of return"; no recognizing Israel as a Jewish State; and, no concessions over Jerusalem. 


Like the famous "three noes" of 1967, these "don't-even-go-there" refusals make any long-term peace deal between the two groups impossible because Israel cannot give in on any of the three. 


So what's really going on? With all of the efforts of the international community to broker a peace deal, why are the Palestinians just as intransigent in 2014 as they were in 1967 -- almost 50 years later? 


The bottom line is that with every fiber of their beings, they want to make void God's promise to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants. Mohammad and all who follow him believe that God gave those promises to Ishmael and his descendants (the Arabs), not Isaac and the Jews. The heart of the conflict, then, is over the integrity of the Bible itself. 


http://www.hallindsey.com/the-hal-li...report-272014/

----------


## RMNIXON

> As far as Palestine goes, the Arabs got Jordan, which is many times larger than what is now called Israel



The so-called Palestinians have been calling themselves refugees since 1947!

You would think someone willing to take them in after all this time.............



Or is it more important that they be used as a tool of human body warfare against that tiny sliver of the ME called Israel!

----------

Victory (01-20-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> That isn't necessary.. The Saudi Peace Initiative was about the rapid development of infrastructure and jobs for the Palestinians.. and they have lots of experience doing that.
> 
> Israel wants all the land in the West Bank, the Negev, Gaza, Shaaba Farms and the Golan as well as the rivers of Lebanon.. They have since the first Zionist Congress in 1900.


Muslim enmity against Jews and the United States predated the birth of the modern Israeli state.

----------


## Roadmaster

> The so-called Palestinians have been calling themselves refugees since 1947!
> 
> You would think someone willing to take them in after all this time.............
> 
> 
> 
> Or is it more important that they be used as a tool of human body warfare against that tiny sliver of the ME called Israel!


The pals have been there for decades. Many of them were Christians that were forced out years ago. They love for us to confuse pals with Muslims.

----------


## sooda

> Hal Lindsey has an answer.
> 
> U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is so obsessed with the Palestinian/Israeli peace process that he's not even listening to the Palestinians. If he did, he'd probably turn around and go home. 
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas confirmed the famous "Three Noes" of the 1967 Arab League Khartoum Summit by announcing his own three "noes." 
> 
> 
> In a fiery speech from his Ramallah headquarters, Abbas proclaimed that there would be no giving up the Palestinian "right of return"; no recognizing Israel as a Jewish State; and, no concessions over Jerusalem. 
> ...


You know the Jews were treated horribly in Europe.. and then Hitler with his Nuremberg Laws took their property, jobs, rights, citizenship and ultimately killed millions or caused them to flee.. So the European Jews went to Palestine seeking sanctuary and proceeded to abuse and dispossess the Arabs who had always lived there. Put yourself in their shoes.. Would you let some refugee population take your land and your rights without protest?

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> FYI- one of the founders of the Muslim Brotherhood visited the US in 1949.
> 
> 
> His teachings went on to influence Bin Laden.


Qutbism is central to the current Jihadist extremism but I don't care about all of that stuff.

What's important is NOT the hashing and rehashing of our history of all things Muslim, Islamic or sandy.

What's important is that it can't be stopped by what we have done recently nor whatour allies have been doing recently.

And we in America are in a period of time before the tsunami of islamism is due to hit. Will we have a shield ready in time or not.

That is the only urgent thing we should consider at this point in time.

The key to generating enough will to get the larger public and private organizations to act in an effective manor is to get enough people to recognize the threat in time to mobilize nationwide support.

Get the message out.

----------


## sooda

> Muslim enmity against Jews and the United States predated the birth of the modern Israeli state.


Jews were discriminated against in the US up until 30 years ago..

Meanwhile Jews lived all over the Arab world for 2500 years and the were largely prosperous and far safer than in Europe  what with progroms and repeated expulsions.... accusations of Blood Libel and so on.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> You know the Jews were treated horribly in Europe.. and then Hitler with his Nuremberg Laws took their property, jobs, rights, citizenship and ultimately killed millions or caused them to flee.. So the European Jews went to Palestine seeking sanctuary and proceeded to abuse and dispossess the Arabs who had always lived there. Put yourself in their shoes.. Would you let some refugee population take your land and your rights without protest?


Is that why you support the Israeli's refusal of the refugees' right of return?

----------


## sooda

> The so-called Palestinians have been calling themselves refugees since 1947!
> 
> You would think someone willing to take them in after all this time.............
> 
> 
> 
> Or is it more important that they be used as a tool of human body warfare against that tiny sliver of the ME called Israel!


They want the right of return and their ancestral homes and their olive groves.. Every Jewish person has the "right" to move to Palestine.. but not the Palestinians who have lived there for two thousand years.

Heavens.. most are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed with the land in the first century.

----------


## protectionist

> No question, but suicide is forbidden in Islam just as it is for Christians and Jews. These ISIS guys are beyond the pale..


No it's not. In fact it is promoted a lot.  A lot of jihad methodology rests upon a modern form of taqiyya, in which they have different definitions for words than Westerners do.  Martyring is often substitute for suicide.  The idea is to deflect attention away from the INTENT of the death of a Muslim, and have it appear that that "martyr" is just dying in the cause of Islam (as in battle).  Problem with that con job is, all the many suras in the Koran that elaborately describe the rewards of martyring, thereby filling young Muslim men with the desire to go out and kill themselves.
In preparation for attacks, suicide terrorists typically recite passages from six surahs, or chapters, of the Koran: Baqura (Surah 2), Al Imran (3), Anfal (8), Tawba (9), Rahman (55) and Asr (103).  

The widely recognized Islamic spiritual leader, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi has called suicide bombing, a supreme form of jihad for the sake of God and, therefore, religiously legitimate.  Here we have again the deception of wording (definitions).   While Qaradawi argues that the Koran does not allow attacks against the _"innocent",_ his definition of innocence is so narrow as to obviate such assurances. It doesn't include any Israelis or Americans, for instance.


In Afghanistan, a Taliban leader was noted as saying he had over 500 suicide bombers ready to go into action.  And so many that some have been waiting years  to do it.   Suicide attack came to prominence with the twentieth-century rise of Muslim Brotherhood theorists such as Banna and Qutb, and was further developed by their successors. While much of the exegesis developed out of Sunni jurisprudence, the Islamic Republic in Iran encouraged the phenomenon. Many of Tehran's proxy groups embraced the tactic.

It is fashionable among Western analysts and academics to explain away suicide bombing with discussion of "root causes" that omit religion. Many cite a history of exploitation by Western powers, Israel's existence, government oppression, poverty, lack of education, and alienation as reasons why desperate individuals decide to blow themselves up to murder others. But attention to suicide bombers' own justifications suggest that, for them, Islam and its call for jihad is the primary motivation.

Sorry to have to rain on your parade, Margot.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Jews were discriminated against in the US up until 30 years ago..
> 
> Meanwhile Jews lived all over the Arab world for 2500 years and the were largely prosperous and far safer than in Europe  what with progroms and repeated expulsions.... accusations of Blood Libel and so on.


 They were discriminated against because Christians wouldn't allow them to take Jesus out of schools and government. We were not a secular country but with our PC laws now we have lost rights. That opens us up for Islam. Who supports these, Christians. We are our worst enemy.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Jews were discriminated against in the US up until 30 years ago..
> 
> Meanwhile Jews lived all over the Arab world for 2500 years and the were largely prosperous and far safer than in Europe  what with progroms and repeated expulsions.... accusations of Blood Libel and so on.


Too frequently, Jews lived and were at best TOLERATED by anti-Semites throughout the world.

How many Muslims are there in existence?

Maybe a billion or two?

And how many Jews are on Earth?

The total of all of them.

In total.

About 15 million.

Why are Muslims so hateful and murderously racist toward Jews?

----------


## Roadmaster

> by anti-Semites throughout the world.


 Anti-semites is another word for Christians. They don't like countries founded on Christian principles.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> They want the right of return and their ancestral homes and their olive groves.. Every Jewish person has the "right" to move to Palestine.. but not the Palestinians who have lived there for two thousand years.
> 
> Heavens.. most are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed with the land in the first century.


Yada, yada, yada...

*The Goal of Islam is to make all of humanity submit to Shariah Law.*

"Every accommodation non-Muslims make for Muslims moves our culture, our beliefs, and our legal systems one step closer to Sharia law."

----------


## sooda

> No it's not. In fact it is promoted a lot.  A lot of jihad methodology rests upon a modern form of taqiyya, in which they have different definitions for words than Westerners do.  Martyring is often substitute for suicide.  The idea is to deflect attention away from the INTENT of the death of a Muslim, and have it appear that that "martyr" is just dying in the cause of Islam (as in battle).  Problem with that con job is, all the many suras in the Koran that elaborately describe the rewards of martyring, thereby filling young Muslim men with the desire to go out and kill themselves.
> In preparation for attacks, suicide terrorists typically recite passages from six surahs, or chapters, of the Koran: Baqura (Surah 2), Al Imran (3), Anfal (8), Tawba (9), Rahman (55) and Asr (103).  
> 
> The widely recognized Islamic spiritual leader, Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi has called suicide bombing, a supreme form of jihad for the sake of God and, therefore, religiously legitimate.  Here we have again the deception of wording (definitions).   While Qaradawi argues that the Koran does not allow attacks against the _"innocent",_ his definition of innocence is so narrow as to obviate such assurances. It doesn't include any Israelis or Americans, for instance.
> 
> 
> In Afghanistan, a Taliban leader was noted as saying he had over 500 suicide bombers ready to go into action.  And so many that some have been waiting years  to do it.   Suicide attack came to prominence with the twentieth-century rise of Muslim Brotherhood theorists such as Banna and Qutb, and was further developed by their successors. While much of the exegesis developed out of Sunni jurisprudence, the Islamic Republic in Iran encouraged the phenomenon. Many of Tehran's proxy groups embraced the tactic.
> 
> It is fashionable among Western analysts and academics to explain away suicide bombing with discussion of "root causes" that omit religion. Many cite a history of exploitation by Western powers, Israel's existence, government oppression, poverty, lack of education, and alienation as reasons why desperate individuals decide to blow themselves up to murder others. But attention to suicide bombers' own justifications suggest that, for them, Islam and its call for jihad is the primary motivation.
> ...


You couldn't rain on my parade if you tried.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Jews were discriminated against in the US up until 30 years ago..
> 
> Meanwhile Jews lived all over the Arab world for 2500 years and the were largely prosperous and far safer than in Europe  what with progroms and repeated expulsions.... accusations of Blood Libel and so on.


The Muslims allied themselves with Adolf Hitler.

----------

Victory (01-19-2015)

----------


## protectionist

> They want the right of return and their ancestral homes and their olive groves.. Every Jewish person has the "right" to move to Palestine.. but not the Palestinians who have lived there for two thousand years.
> 
> Heavens.. most are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed with the land in the first century.


If/whenever the Palestinians thoroughly divorce themselves from Hamas, and stop lobbing rockets around, building tunnels into their neighbors' turf (to attack and slaughter them), and blowing people up with suicide attacks, they just might start getting some degrees of tolerance thrown their way.  Israel isn't the only country not wanting any part of them.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Anti-semites is another word for Christians. They don't like countries founded on Christian principles.


In times like this and exchanges like these it doesn't help to parse terms too finely.

For now when I say Anti-Semites I'm referring to murderously hateful Muslim anti-Jewish racists.

----------

RMNIXON (01-19-2015)

----------


## RMNIXON

> They want the right of return and their ancestral homes and their olive groves.. Every Jewish person has the "right" to move to Palestine.. but not the Palestinians who have lived there for two thousand years.
> 
> Heavens.. most are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed with the land in the first century.



Palestine is a fiction and hardly 2000 years old, and many a people have been displaced in this world. That hardly justifies hiding behind women and children, and the human bomb factories, and the digging of terrorist tunnels under public works projects and UN hospitals. Or the most vile racism ever displayed and encouraged even with children's television.

And I will not equate the willful extermination of Jews in Israel with peaceful returning to olive groves. 

You must have me confused with some ignorant liberal in the quiet safety of a PC SoCal university.

----------


## protectionist

> You couldn't rain on my parade if you tried.


ha ha.  I have destroyed MANY of your parades in Political Forum, Margot, and you know it.  What happened ?  They finally booted you out ?

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> They want the right of return and their ancestral homes and their olive groves.. Every Jewish person has the "right" to move to Palestine.. but not the Palestinians who have lived there for two thousand years.
> 
> Heavens.. most are descended from Jewish farmers who stayed with the land in the first century.


 Where is that in the NT and who are these people returning.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> The pals have been there for decades. Many of them were Christians that were forced out years ago. They love for us to confuse pals with Muslims.


The phrase, _"distinction without a difference"_ comes to mind.

----------


## RMNIXON

> ha ha.  I have destroyed MANY of your parades in Political Forum, Margot, and you know it.  What happened ?  They finally booted you out ?



Looks like we have our own displaced refugee? 

Better play nice!  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-19-2015)

----------


## Canadianeye

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Every country that has muslims in it, rues/regrets the day it ever opened its country up for them to enter. They don't assimilate and they bring ruin to every culture.

The politicians and populace would tell you that, if not for being ensnared in political correctness. But everyone knows it, even the tard libs know it at some level.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-19-2015)

----------


## protectionist

> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Every country that has muslims in it, rues/regrets the day it ever opened its country up for them to enter. They don't assimilate and they bring ruin to every culture.
> 
> The politicians and populace would tell you that, if not for being ensnared in political correctness. But everyone knows it, even the tard libs know it at some level.


Analagous to a swarm of locusts (or even killer bees).   How disturbingly definitive for Obama to claim to _"stand with"_ them.

----------


## Roadmaster

> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Every country that has muslims in it, rues/regrets the day it ever opened its country up for them to enter. They don't assimilate and they bring ruin to every culture.
> 
> The politicians and populace would tell you that, if not for being ensnared in political correctness. But everyone knows it, even the tard libs know it at some level.


The liberals know this and loves chaos.

----------


## Roadmaster

> The phrase, _"distinction without a difference"_ comes to mind.


No the phrase deception with lies comes to mind. It most certainly wasn't the Muslims that forced them out.

----------


## JackSchlitz

> Palestine is a fiction and hardly 2000 years old, and many a people have been displaced in this world. That hardly justifies hiding behind women and children, and the human bomb factories, and the digging of terrorist tunnels under public works projects and UN hospitals. Or the most vile racism ever displayed and encouraged even with children's television.
> 
> And I will not equate the willful extermination of Jews in Israel with peaceful returning to olive groves. 
> 
> You must have me confused with some ignorant liberal in the quiet safety of a PC SoCal university.


The libbies always strive for faux moral superiority---they have a great need and desire to be morally superior....which they actually believe they can achieve by siding with those who they 'perceive' to be 'victims' via a fallacious liberal narrative aka American Negroes, Palestinians, American Indians, homersexuals, transvestites, those on death row etc. etc. and so on and so forth.

http://www.targetofopportunity.com/p...nian_truth.htm

----------

DonGlock26 (01-19-2015),protectionist (01-20-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

It's happened in every country, the minorities work together against the country, this includes the liberal Jews. They lobby for gays,trans, and even Muslims, open borders everywhere they go. All while passing hate laws.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Every country that has muslims in it, rues/regrets the day it ever opened its country up for them to enter. They don't assimilate and they bring ruin to every culture.
> 
> The politicians and populace would tell you that, if not for being ensnared in political correctness. But everyone knows it, even the tard libs know it at some level.


Damn! Strong post!

 :Applause: 


 :Thumbsup20: 

PK

----------


## Calypso Jones

Do you know that those Ferguson protestors went to Middle east to hobknob with So called Palestinians....they're exchanging strategies and forming alliances.    

There's a clue in there somewhere.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

Muslims and Jews for the most part are about the same. They go to Christian founded countries most of them, not all  and expect those countries to change the laws for them. The ones who support them when they come are the problem. You either want to live in a free country or you don't.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Do you know that those Ferguson protestors went to Middle east to hobknob with So called Palestinians....they're exchanging strategies and forming alliances.    
> 
> There's a clue in there somewhere.


 And the liberal Jews funded them, what's you point.

----------


## Victory

> You know the Jews were treated horribly in Europe.. and then Hitler with his Nuremberg Laws took their property, jobs, rights, citizenship and ultimately killed millions or caused them to flee.. So* the European Jews went to Palestine seeking sanctuary and proceeded to abuse and dispossess the Arabs who had always lived there.* Put yourself in their shoes.. Would you let some refugee population take your land and your rights without protest?


That's bullshit.  Jews and Arabs got along pretty well in the Levant in the years well before 1947.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Muslims and Jews for the most part are about the same. They go to Christian founded countries most of them, not all  and expect those countries to change the laws for them. The ones who support them when they come are the problem. You either want to live in a free country or you don't.



I posted this just for you.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> And the liberal Jews funded them, what's you point.


Palestinians are trying to gain allies by doing to Blacks what the Democrats did to American Blacks in the 1960's and ever since.

Use them like Kleenex.

----------


## Victory

> The European refugees killed over 500 British peacekeepers before 1948.


The Brits deported Jewish Holocaust survivors trying to get into Palestine.  You're cherry picking confused.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Exodus

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Do you know that those Ferguson protestors went to Middle east to hobknob with So called Palestinians....they're exchanging strategies and forming alliances.    
> 
> There's a clue in there somewhere.


Only to those smart enough to pick up on the clues.

Like you!

 :Smile:

----------


## Roadmaster

> Palestinians are trying to gain allies by doing to Blacks what the Democrats did to American Blacks in the 1960's and ever since.
> 
> Use them like Kleenex.


 You mean the same way Jews did. They came out and said twice they were funding the protest. Pat themselves on the back for the civil rights movement. Problem is they play both sides just like they do in elections.

----------


## Roadmaster

A house divided will fall. You either have Christians going with extreme Muslims because of the rights they have lost or they side with liberal Jews who fight against them and all Christian values. We can't stand with either one and win. We have to stand together.

----------


## Sled Dog

> I lived with them..  They are like Calvanists.. no frills, but they certainly aren't hostile or violent.



...?...?...?...?...nobody believes that.

----------


## Sled Dog

> No question, but suicide is forbidden in Islam just as it is for Christians and Jews. These ISIS guys are beyond the pale..


I remember the morons who said that Egyptian airliner that splashed a decade ago couldn't have been suicide because muslims don't commit suicide.

Right.

Suicide is against the Christian rules, too. 

Guess what?  Christians commit suicide.

The damn muslims commit murder while suiciding, in the sick belief that their terrible religion is getting some free advertising.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Barak looks just like his mother.............. not Marshall Davis.


Damn, he had the ugliest mother since Chelsea, then.

----------


## JustPassinThru

Got ALL KINDS of history rewrites here.

Sure, joos and a-rabs got along just fine before 1947.  Anyone know what the Crusades were?  They were AN ANSWER to the Mohammedan mobs who were cleansing Jerusalem and the Holy Land of Christians and Jews.

To point out just one fiction.  Our new friend here is either living a delusion or is an agenda pumper.  Not hostile or violent?  Surely not.

I'm not going to waste more of my life on refuting intentional, agenda-oriented lies and rewrites.  It just makes me SICK...how little facts, honesty, Truth matter in this age.  If people don't care about what IS, only about what they want to CONVINCE OTHERS it is when it is NOT...I have nothing to discuss with them.

I can neither learn from nor teach, a liar.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Yes, Stanley is a family surname.. I have known girls named Stanley.. 
> 
> Do you have DNA to prove that Marshall is Obama's father?



No.

HER name was STANLEY ANNE DUNHAM.

She had a sick-fuck father who wanted a son, and named his son STANLEY, even though the circumcision turned out to be totally impossible.

----------


## Sled Dog

> LOLOL.. You have entered the realm of kookery.. She didn't have to "confer citizenship".. A woman's citizenship doesn't activate at a given age.. That's patently nuts..



And that's THE LAW AS WRITTEN in 1961, that the mother of the child had to have been a citizen over 18 years of age for TWO years before she could confer citizenship on a baby born out of country to an alien father.

Nobody ever told you that today's laws aren't necessarily yesterday's laws?

----------


## Sled Dog

> I have *no doubt* that in his heart, Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. His tryst with Christianity was merely for political expediency.


King Ebola, the muslim traitor, NEVER had any association with Christianity.  He attended a socialist revolutionary hate theatre pretending to be a church for the tax dodges.

----------


## Roadmaster

I would rather stand with an atheist patriot than a liberal or Islam. At least they are halfway honest. The worst is liberal fake Christians who think they know more than God.

----------


## Sled Dog

> I think it's pretty clear. Barack Obama will stand by anyone who will cheer Rev. Wright screaming, "God Damn America." That's our president. Can the Democrats find anyone who hates America like that to replace the Annointed One?



Hillary, without question.

She's never going to forgive the Americans for the embarrassment she suffered because she is still married to a rapist and perjurer.

----------


## Sled Dog

> What "acts of treason".... and how has he failed to protect America?


Refusal to re-negotiation the Iraqi SOFA, and his subsequent criminal abandonment of allies in Iraq.

Refusal to fight the war in Trashcanistan.

Fast and Furious

Amnesty for the Invading Horde from Mexico, publicly advertising for MORE invaders, and violating the Constitution to grant those things amnesty.

Delaying for six months the kill/capture raid on bin Laden.
Informing the terrorists immediately upon bin Laden's execution, the prohibiting any effort to capitalize on the information gained from that raid.
Revealing the identity of the team that performed the raid.

Using US troops and military gear to assist al queda in Libya in direct violation of the Constitution and the War Powers Act while the United States is at war with al qeada.  (The very definition of treason)

His deliberate destruction of the US economy.

His deliberate refusal to allow construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline.


etc.


etc.


etc.

----------


## Sled Dog

> You do understand that there was NO state behind the 9/11 attack.. and no support for terrorists.. They have more day to day troubles with terrorists than we do.. 
> 
> Be advised anyone can have an opinion and anyone can write a cable.



!!BULLSHIT ALERT!!

Osama bin Laden was appointed Commander in Chief of the Trashcanistan Armed Forces in August, 2001.

You'll never guess what happened in September, 2001.

----------


## Sled Dog

> If Obama backs Sisi, he will appear to be a US stooge.................


The big question:

Is that a step up, or down?

----------


## Sled Dog

> Long experience and the 70 year track record of the SAG..


What's the Screen Actor's Guild got to do with Islam, outside of defending it these days?

----------


## Calypso Jones

> What's the Screen Actor's Guild got to do with Islam, outside of defending it these days?


well let's see...they're providing the positive PR.    And Probably making donations.

----------


## sooda

> Refusal to re-negotiation the Iraqi SOFA, and his subsequent criminal abandonment of allies in Iraq.
> 
> Refusal to fight the war in Trashcanistan.
> 
> Fast and Furious
> 
> Amnesty for the Invading Horde from Mexico, publicly advertising for MORE invaders, and violating the Constitution to grant those things amnesty.
> 
> Delaying for six months the kill/capture raid on bin Laden.
> ...


Because you have failed to study the facts, you accuse our President of treason.. Americans really should make the effort to be well informed.

----------


## sooda

> What's the Screen Actor's Guild got to do with Islam, outside of defending it these days?


*Everyone knows that when you are discussing the ME or US foreign policy that SAG means Saudi Arab Government.*

----------


## Victory

> The so-called Palestinians have been calling themselves refugees since 1947!
> 
> You would think someone willing to take them in after all this time.............
> 
> 
> 
> Or is it more important that they be used as a tool of human body warfare against that tiny sliver of the ME called Israel!


That's exactly right!  The Palestinians have been killed and kicked out of Jordan as well!  If there is ever peace between Israel and the Palestinians then one of the biggest reasons for strife in the region will have died down and with it. . .the drive for the Caliphate!

The Palestinians must perpetually be the "victims" of Israeli aggression in order to stoke the flames of the Caliphate.  If peace ever breaks out, then change stops--the march toward a Caliphate stops.

----------


## Victory

> *Everyone knows that when you are discussing the ME or US foreign policy that SAG means Saudi Arab Government.*


How is it you claim to be so knowledgeable on the Middle East and yet you are the dead LAST person to ever see the ISIS disaster coming?




> I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake,* but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster*?


How could you have *missed* it?  Perhaps you should turn in your expert card.

----------


## Victory

> Because you have failed to study the facts, you accuse our President of treason.. *Americans really should make the effort to be well informed*.


Says the person who said this:




> I thought attacking Iraq was a mistake,* but who could have foreseen this ISIS disaster*?


Let's try to be more well informed shall we?

----------

Canadianeye (01-20-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Victory

> I was not impressed with the "mature man" at the podium.. He's glib and dishonest.. The girl was just young .


And so you side with the terrorist and forgive her youthful naiveté--her only transgression, I guess, is not being slick and articulate enough to successfully dance around a direct question dealing with genocide and HIS life and death.

Is that about it?

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> I'm sure some "neck striking" has crossed their minds.


Wouldn't allowing more Muslims into the USA be somewhat similar to importing a bunch of these guys?

----------


## DonGlock26

> Wouldn't allowing more Muslims into the USA be somewhat similar to importing a bunch of these guys?



Boy, look at all them Democrats.


Yes, the liberals are certainly cutting their own throats by letting Islamists into the West. But, remember, we are talking about people who
 actually believed Barack Obama and think that socialism will work "this time".

The non-progressives will always have to deal with the Left trying to destroy America. They are like the drowning man determined to take
 someone down with them, while calling it justice.

----------

Canadianeye (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> How is it you claim to be so knowledgeable on the Middle East and yet you are the dead LAST person to ever see the ISIS disaster coming?
> 
> I don't pretend to be a prophet........
> 
> As for the Palestinians being kicked out of Jordan ... You must know what a problem refugee populations can be.. consider that no one would take in the Holocaust survivors so they went to Palestine.
> 
> How could you have *missed* it?  Perhaps you should turn in your expert card.

----------


## sooda

> And so you side with the terrorist and forgive her youthful naiveté--her only transgression, I guess, is not being slick and articulate enough to successfully dance around a direct question dealing with genocide and HIS life and death.
> 
> Is that about it?


Oh no.. I don't side with terrorists.. and I expect all of them will be killed or brought to justice.. but I know that all Arab s aren't terrorists although that claim would suit your agenda.. Politicians on both sides do the same thing.. They dismiss the facts and the details if either get in the way of their partisanship.

----------


## Victory

> Oh no.. I don't side with terrorists.. and I expect all of them will be killed or brought to justice.. but I know that all Arab s aren't terrorists although that claim would suit your agenda.. Politicians on both sides do the same thing.. They dismiss the facts and the details if either get in the way of their partisanship.


More weasel words.

Why is he "dishonest" and she merely "young?"

----------


## sooda

> More weasel words.
> 
> Why is he "dishonest" and she merely "young?"


Watch the video clip again... and YOU seem to think she's a "terrorist" simply because you don't like her defense of the Palestinian people. Isn't that typical..

----------


## Victory

> Watch the video clip again... and YOU seem to think she's a "terrorist" simply because you don't like her defense of the Palestinian people. Isn't that typical..


I sent the clip to YOU.  YOU watch it again.

She is in the MSA supported by the Muslim Brotherhood.  'Nuf said.

You dodge because you can't reveal the truth.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> I sent the clip to YOU.  YOU watch it again.
> 
> She is in the MSA supported by the Muslim Brotherhood.  'Nuf said.
> 
> You dodge because you can't reveal the truth.


So what.. the MB aren't terrorists.. Have you followed their development since the 1960s? I have... that's what I meant about being well informed.. the MB has split off all the violent ideologues and they split off from the MB years ago. I wouldn't choose them, but they are not a threat .. You simply paint all Arabs with the same brush. Is that willful or simply ignorance?

----------


## Sheldonna

> Says the person who said this:
> 
> 
> 
> Let's try to be more well informed shall we?


Lol!  As an infamous leftie broad used to say....

BAM!!!!

----------

Victory (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Lol!  As an infamous leftie broad used to say....
> 
> BAM!!!!


I have been a conservative all my life...  but partisanship has no bearing on the facts and details.. They are what they are..

----------


## Sheldonna

> I have *no doubt* that in his heart, Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. His tryst with Christianity was merely for political expediency.


He attended a racist, anti-whitey, anti-American ""church"" led by yet another fake reverend, whom he called a family friend and mentor) for almost a quarter of a century.  That's not a tryst with Christianity.  It's a phony attempt to pretend that he's a Christian.  It didn't work.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-20-2015),Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Well, I am neither a Muslim nor a liberal.


You sure aren't a Conservative.

And if you aren't a Conservative, you aren't a Liberal and you aren't a Muslim, I think you need to watch this and pay attention.

----------


## sooda

> He attended a racist, anti-whitey, anti-American ""church"" led by yet another fake reverend, whom he called a family friend and mentor) for almost a quarter of a century.  That's not a tryst with Christianity.  It's a phony attempt to pretend that he's a Christian.  It didn't work.


Most politicians pretend to be Christians.. It goes with the territory..

----------


## Sheldonna

> I have been a conservative all my life...  but partisanship has no bearing on the facts and details.. They are what they are..


What the hell are you blathering about?  I wasn't addressing you in that post.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> I have been a conservative all my life...  but partisanship has no bearing on the facts and details.. They are what they are..


A conservative what?

A conservative Muslim would post much as you do if he or she was trying to keep from getting banned.




> The Goal of Islam is to make all of humanity submit to Shariah Law.
> 
> 
> "Every accommodation non-Muslims make for Muslims moves our culture, our beliefs, and our legal systems one step closer to Sharia law."

----------

Victory (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> You sure aren't a Conservative.
> 
> And if you aren't a Conservative, you aren't a Liberal and you aren't a Muslim, I think you need to watch this and pay attention.



I am conservative in both fiscal and social matters.. I am just not ignorant... In fact, I was very active in the Republican part for several decades until Dubya invaded Iraq.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> I am conservative in both fiscal and social matters.. I am just not ignorant... In fact, I was very active in the Republican part for several decades until Dubya invaded Iraq.



And what, specifically, did you object to about the invasion of Iraq?

The act of preventing Israel from going up in a mushroom cloud?

Or the act of preventing a full scale region wide Holy War?

----------


## Victory

> I have been a conservative all my life...


Of course you are, dear.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## sooda

> And what, specifically, did you object to about the invasion of Iraq?
> 
> The act of preventing Israel from going up in a mushroom cloud?
> 
> Or the act of preventing a full scale region wide Holy War?


Good grief.. did you really fall for that old saw? Neither Iraq nor Iran will ever attack Israel..... There were no WMDs.. Those silly clots thought that chlorine that was used for water treatment was a WMD.. and they tried to say Saddam was trucking his weapons back and forth between Sudan and Syria. The whole thing was a really stupid cock up..

I really fell out laughing when they claimed a refrigerated step van was a mobile chemical weapons lab. These fools didn't know anything at all about the Middle East or Iraq.

I really feel for our wounded warriors.. They paid a horrible price for a fool's errand.. blunder upon folly.


I resigned the Republican party when it became apparent that the dual citizens .. the neocons of the PNAC.. were running the show.. If you are an American, you should take umbrage at that.

----------


## Canadianeye

> I have been a conservative all my life...  but partisanship has no bearing on the facts and details.. They are what they are..


OK. Now just clean the nose smudge off of your monitor, and you'll be good to go.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## sooda

> OK. Now just clean the nose smudge off of your monitor, and you'll be good to go.


Actually, my husband and I started the young Republicans in our county many years ago .. and I was frequently invited to our Republican governor's mansion for tea.

----------


## Sheldonna

> Most politicians pretend to be Christians.. It goes with the territory..


We're not talking about 'most politicians'.  We're talking about the CIC.  And no, most politicians don't pretend to be Christians to cover for the fact their family consisted of commies/Marxists, athiests and Muslims.

----------


## sooda

> We're not talking about 'most politicians'.  We're talking about the CIC.  And no, most politicians don't pretend to be Christians to cover for the fact their family consisted of commies/Marxists, athiests and Muslims.


LOLOL.. You don't know any politicians, do you?

Get over yourself.. Obama is not a Muslim nor a Commie........ Do better if you are going to criticize him.. Get real.

----------


## Victory

> Good grief.. did you really fall for that old saw? Neither Iraq nor Iran will ever attack Israel..... *There were no WMDs*.. Those silly clots thought that chlorine that was used for water treatment was a WMD.. and they tried to say Saddam was trucking his weapons back and forth between Sudan and Syria. The whole thing was a really stupid cock up..


Dear, I've been saying in forums like this ever since I got back from Iraq that we indeed found lots of WMDs and I took the slings and barbs from armchair diplomats who were utterly convinced that no WMDs were found.  How could they be so sure?  Well, they saw it on CNN of course!  Bush and Powell said it too!  Strange how they became stalwart supporters of Bush the Truth Teller when he opened his mouth and claimed no WMDs.  Of course, every OTHER thing he ever said was a lie.   :Moron: 

You really need to be better informed.  We found lots of WMDs.  The New York Times finally agreed with me.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...pons.html?_r=0


Don't you think it's high time you come down off your high horse?  You must have wasted all that time in the Middle East burying your head in the sand and smoking your huka.  You missed ISIS _and_ you missed WMDs!  What credibility do you have left?  Why should anyone read your posts anymore?

----------


## Sheldonna

> LOLOL.. You don't know any politicians, do you?
> 
> Get over yourself.. Obama is not a Muslim nor a Commie........ Do better if you are going to criticize him.. Get real.


You would no doubt claim otherwise even if you knew for a fact that he was a commie Muslim.  That's what commie Muslim appeasers/apologists do.  I'm over you, that's for damned sure.

----------


## sooda

> Dear, I've been saying in forums like this ever since I got back from Iraq that we indeed found lots of WMDs and I took the slings and barbs from armchair diplomats who were utterly convinced that no WMDs were found.  How could they be so sure?  Well, they saw it on CNN of course!  Bush and Powell said it too!  Strange how they became stalwart supporters of Bush the Truth Teller when he opened his mouth and claimed no WMDs.  Of course, every OTHER thing he ever said was a lie.  
> 
> You really need to be better informed.  We found lots of WMDs.  The New York Times finally agreed with me.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...pons.html?_r=0
> 
> 
> Don't you think it's high time you come down off your high horse?  You must have wasted all that time in the Middle East burying your head in the sand and smoking your huka.  You missed ISIS _and_ you missed WMDs!  What credibility do you have left?  Why should anyone read your posts anymore?


No.. you didn't find any WMDs.. and you were a soldier in a war zone.. Thank you for your service... When you smoke a Hooka.. you are smoking dried apples.. You don't know much about the ME.

----------


## sooda

> You would no doubt claim otherwise even if you knew for a fact that he was a commie Muslim.  That's what commie Muslim appeasers/apologists do.  I'm over you, that's for damned sure.


You should calm down, grow up and get an education.. Obama is neither a Muslim nor a Communist.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Good grief.. did you really fall for that old saw? Neither Iraq nor Iran will ever attack Israel..... There were no WMDs.. Those silly clots thought that chlorine that was used for water treatment was a WMD.. and they tried to say Saddam was trucking his weapons back and forth between Sudan and Syria. The whole thing was a really stupid cock up..
> 
> I really fell out laughing when they claimed a refrigerated step van was a mobile chemical weapons lab. These fools didn't know anything at all about the Middle East or Iraq.
> 
> I really feel for our wounded warriors.. They paid a horrible price for a fool's errand.. blunder upon folly.
> 
> 
> I resigned the Republican party when it became apparent that the dual citizens .. the neocons of the PNAC.. were running the show.. If you are an American, you should take umbrage at that.


I take umbrage at you.

You and your anti-American soul.

----------


## Sheldonna

> You should calm down, grow up and get an education.. Obama is neither a Muslim nor a Communist.


You should stop trying to infer that others are immature, uneducated and hysterical when they're merely refuting your bullshit.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015),protectionist (01-20-2015)

----------


## Victory

> You should calm down, grow up and get an education.. Obama is neither a Muslim nor a Communist.


Ah yes.  More snobby "education" blather.

From the only person here who couldn't be bothered to "educate" herself on the coming Caliphate or the discovery of WMDs in Iraq.  Tell me once again how "educated" you are.  Tell me again how much time you spent in the Middle East and failed to pick up on WMDs or the coming Caliphate.  I love that story!

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> You should calm down, grow up and get an education.. Obama is neither a Muslim nor a Communist.


What is he, then?

An azz bugger.

One that you defend.

And why do you defend such an azz bugger?

Because ...

----------


## Victory

> No.. you didn't find any WMDs.. and you were a soldier in a war zone.. Thank you for your service... When you smoke a Hooka.. you are smoking dried apples.. You don't know much about the ME.


No.  You don't know shit.

I was a civilian in a war zone and an Air Force Officer before that.  Here's your thank you back.  I don't need it from you.  I've got plenty more genuine gratitude from genuine Americans.

I know people who laid eyes and hands on WMDs.  And the New York Times finally agreed with me nine years after I knew the truth.  YOU, however will continue to smoke your huka and propagate your lies under the pretense of imagined experience.  You're either a shill or an outright fraud.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Actually, my husband and I started the young Republicans in our county many years ago .. and I was frequently invited to our Republican governor's mansion for tea.




These guys have you beaten.

They hob nobbed with the POTUS.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> No.  You don't know shit.
> 
> I was a civilian in a war zone and an Air Force Officer before that.  Here's your thank you back.  I don't need it from you.  I've got plenty more genuine gratitude from genuine Americans.
> 
> I know people who laid eyes and hands on WMDs.  And the New York Times finally agreed with me nine years after I knew the truth.  YOU, however will continue to smoke your huka and propagate your lies under the pretense of imagined experience.  You're either a shill or an outright fraud.


 :Headbang: 

 :Thumbsup20:

----------


## Victory

> Actually, my husband and I started the young Republicans in our county many years ago .. and I was frequently invited to our Republican governor's mansion for tea.


So what?  Lots of Islamists have been invited to the White House under Bush and Obama.

Did you start Islamberg too?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-20-2015)

----------


## protectionist

> What "acts of treason".... and how has he failed to protect America?


Being that the Muslim Brotherhood is the #1 subversive, Islamist organization in America, composed of dozens of front groups, and whose goal is the destruction of America (and all of Western civilization), it would seem strange that members of the Brotherhood could be found in the Obama administration, but that's exactly where they are, or have recently been. And at the highest levels too.

    Here's the rogue's gallery: (bad guys noted in red)

    1. *Huma Abedin* - Wife of disgraced ex-Congressman Anthony Weiner, and  State Dept. Deputy Chief of Staff under Hillary Clinton, she “has three family members, –her late father, her mother and her brother –connected to Muslim Brotherhood operatives and/or organizations. In addition, before becoming Hillary Clinton’s deputy, she was herself directly associated with a Brotherhood organization, the *Institute for Muslim Minority Affairs*, an organization founded and funded by Abdullah Omar Naseef, a major Muslim Brotherhood figure also involved in the financing of al Qaeda.
    Since Abedin has held this position, an awful lot of pro-Muslim Brotherhood things have been happening at the State Dept. A Fulbright scholarship was awarded to Siham al-Qaradawi, the daughter of Sheikh Qaradawi, an Islamist scholar, and spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, who's banned from the USA, UK, and France. While the sheikh’s daughter is said to be an exceptional chemist, the world is full of exceptional chemists. How is it that Qaradawi’s daughter gets the State Department prize?
    And since Secretary Clinton’s tenure began, with Huma Abedin serving as a top adviser, the United States has aligned itself with the Muslim Brotherhood in myriad ways. To name just a few (the list is by no means exhaustive): 

 Our government

 1- reversed the policy against formal contacts with the Brotherhood; 

 2- funded Hamas;

 3- continued funding Egypt even after the Brotherhood won the elections; 

 4- dropped an investigation of Brotherhood organizations in the U.S. that were previously identified as co-conspirators in the case of the Holy Land Foundation financing Hamas; 

 5- hosted Brotherhood delegations in the United States; 

 6- issued a visa to a member of the Islamic Group (a designated terrorist organization) and hosted him in Washington because he is part of the Brotherhood’s parliamentary coalition in Egypt; 

 7- announced that Israel should go back to its indefensible 1967 borders; 

 8- excluded Israel, the world’s leading target of terrorism, from a counterterrorism forum in which the State Department sought to “partner” with Islamist governments that do not regard attacks on Israel as terrorism; 

 9- and pressured Egypt’s pro-American military government to surrender power to the anti-American Muslim Brotherhood parliament and president just elected by Egypt’s predominantly anti-American population.

10- the Benghazi fiasco

    Makes us wonder >>> Hypothetically, if Huma Abedin did have a bias in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood, and if she were actually acting on that bias to try to tilt American policy in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood, what exactly would the State Department be doing differently?

    2. *Rashad Hussain* - long been involved with various Muslim Brotherhood front organizations including Abdurahman Alamoudi’s *American Muslim Counci*l and The* International Institute of Islamic Thought (or IIIT*) to which jihadists like Sami al-Arian (who pled guilty in 2006 to organizing secret financial contributions to the Palestine Islamic Jihad, a terrorist group) and Jamal Barzinji, a founding father of the U.S. Muslim Brotherhood, also have ties. Hussain was also involved in the original Brotherhood front in America, the Muslim Students Association.
    An example of Hussain’s sympathies can be found in his declaration at a *Muslim Students Association* conference in Chicago in September 2004 that Sami al-Arian had been subjected to a “politically motivated prosecution.”
    In January 2009, Hussain was named Deputy Associate White House Counsel. Among his government responsibilities in that capacity were national security and new media issues. More specifically he has been charged with “helping inform the administration’s Muslim outreach efforts,” and consulting on the drafting of President Obama’s first address to the “Muslim World” delivered in June 2009 at Cairo University in Egypt. On February 20, 2010, the President announced that Hussain would serve as his “special envoy” to the *Organization of Islamic Cooperation*.
    Even more than his White House post, this job with the OIC has given Hussain a platform for facilitating official outreach to Islamists, as opposed to Islamic moderates. It has enabled him to reinterpret their intentions to American policy makers and to promote their agendas under the guise of “repairing relations with the Muslim world."

    3. *Dalia Mogahed* - She was appointed in April 2009 to the White House Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. also works with the Gallup polling organization’s Center for Muslim Studies where she serves as both the Executive Director and a Senior Analyst.
    In September 2008, Mogahed defended two of the most important Muslim Brotherhood fronts in the United States (as named in the Ikhwan’s strategic plan seized by the FBI in 2004) – the *Islamic Society of North America* and the *Council on American Islamic Relations.* She contended that the determination made by the FBI and others that such groups are linked to Islamic radicals was “misinformation” and part of a groundless “witch-hunt” aimed at silencing them.
    She also gave evidence of her sympathy with Brotherhood rhetoric and objectives by appearing in May 2009 before the 34th annual conference of the *Islamic Council of North America (ICNA)*, a group that has long promoted jihad and Sharia and was listed in the materials captured by the FBI as part of the Brotherhood’s organization. The event was cosponsored by the* Muslim American Society (MAS),* which was founded to serve as the Muslim Brotherhood’s formal American franchise.
    She has also been involved with the* Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC)*, the Muslim Brotherhood’s effort to build a mirror image counterweight to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Anxious to prove that American and Islamic values are similar, MPAC aims to create a moderate image, yet its speakers at pro-Palestinian rallies have routinely called for the destruction of the Jews and of Israel.

    4. *Mohamed Magid* - is the imam at the* All-Dulles Area Muslim Society (ADAMS) Center* in Sterling, Virginia. The Center has seven branches throughout the Northern Virginia region, making it one of the largest mosque complexes in the Washington D.C. area and in the nation. It is also considered one of the most radical in its promotion of Sharia and other Islamist principles.
    Magid’s true identity is suggested by his role as president of the largest Muslim Brotherhood front in the United States: the *Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)*   ISNA was identified by the prosecution in the 2008* Holy Land Foundation* trial as an unindicted co-conspirator, a designation that was upheld by four federal judges on the basis of the evidence produced by the government.
    Magid used his “relationship” with the FBI to get Director Robert Mueller to capitulate to demands by the ISNA and other Muslim Brotherhood fronts that the Bureau’s files be reviewed for documents and briefing materials offensive to Islamists. On February 8, 2012, Mueller announced to a group that included Magid that 700 such documents and 300 briefings had been purged.

    This information is the tip of icebergs regarding  Muslim Brotherhooders in the Obama administration. Much more could be added, but were left out because of the already long length of this post.

And this is just ONE way he has failed to protect America, among many others (ISIS, immigration, terrorism, Ebola travel ban, etc)

----------


## protectionist

> Now, the leader of Egypt is calling for imams to stop preaching hatred and terrorism.  Instead of supporting him, Obama is silent about it.


Let's see if Obama mentions this tonight in his State of the Union.  We'll be listening.  I'm still waiting for him to say "jihad".

----------


## protectionist

> The Israelis exist in a strange circumstance. I realize that some on the right deny the holocaust, I kind of get that, I think others suffered just as much.
> 
> What I don't get is the refusal for Arabs to allow a very tiny strip of land to be "occupied" by jews


That's because those Arabs are Muslims, and there ideology doesn't allow for non-Muslims to exist, except as dhimmis, in the whole world, and especially right in their midst, that they occupy right now.

----------


## protectionist

> So what.. the MB aren't terrorists.. Have you followed their development since the 1960s? I have... that's what I meant about being well informed.. the MB has split off all the violent ideologues and they split off from the MB years ago. I wouldn't choose them, but they are not a threat .. You simply paint all Arabs with the same brush. Is that willful or simply ignorance?


The Muslim Brotherhood is not a threat ?  Who do you think you're talking to, Margot ?  And are you here just to proclaim that you are either lying, or have no clue what you're talking about ?

  The MB proclaimed war against all of western civilization in 1991, in their infamous Explanatory Memorandum, and to this day, have never disavowed it.  They are hard at work to destroy western civilization, every day, by subverting it from within, with Islamization (which you have shown me many times you know little or nothing about). 

  They also are not remiss at supporting violent terrorism either, as was shown in the 2008 Holy Land Foundation trial, where many MB front groups were  exposed as co-conspirators in Hamas funding.   And you wouldn't deny that CAIR (MB front group) is the right arm of Hamas in the US, would you ?

----------

RMNIXON (01-20-2015)

----------


## protectionist

> I am conservative in both fiscal and social matters.. I am just not ignorant... In fact, I was very active in the Republican part for several decades until Dubya invaded Iraq.


You may not be ignorant in some things.  You may even be quite knowledgable in many things.  But on my Islamization Quiz, you got a *ZERO.
*

----------


## protectionist

> Good grief.. did you really fall for that old saw? Neither Iraq nor Iran will ever attack Israel..... There were no WMDs.. Those silly clots thought that chlorine that was used for water treatment was a WMD.. and they tried to say Saddam was trucking his weapons back and forth between Sudan and Syria. The whole thing was a really stupid cock up..
> 
> I really fell out laughing when they claimed a refrigerated step van was a mobile chemical weapons lab. These fools didn't know anything at all about the Middle East or Iraq.
> 
> I really feel for our wounded warriors.. They paid a horrible price for a fool's errand.. blunder upon folly.
> 
> I resigned the Republican party when it became apparent that the dual citizens .. the neocons of the PNAC.. were running the show.. If you are an American, you should take umbrage at that.


Sounds like Islamization isn't the only thing you are ignorant about.  I don't see you having too much of a grasp on the necessity of US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, either.  And for that matter, in Nigeria too.

----------


## protectionist

> These guys have you beaten.
> 
> They hob nobbed with the POTUS.


HA HA.  Yes, the CAIR rogue's gallery. Including head honcho Nihad Awad (AKA "Jihad Awad, among FBI agents)  And Marzook's IAP, was the seed organization, from which CAIR sprung.

----------


## Canadianeye

> Actually, my husband and I started the young Republicans in our county many years ago .. and I was frequently invited to our Republican governor's mansion for tea.


I swear, if you had capitalized TEA...and I would have choked to death laughing...Near miss. You are killing me.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

DonGlock26 (01-20-2015)

----------


## Sheldonna

> Ah yes.  More snobby "education" blather.
> 
> From the only person here who couldn't be bothered to "educate" herself on the coming Caliphate or the discovery of WMDs in Iraq.  Tell me once again how "educated" you are.  Tell me again how much time you spent in the Middle East and failed to pick up on WMDs or the coming Caliphate.  I love that story!


Which begs the question......is this person really that ignorant of the facts, the truth and the reality of what Obama is and of the threat America faces from radical Islam.....?   Or is this person merely "in on it" and on-board with that agenda 100%.....ergo the ad infinitum _'deny, deny, deny'_ bullshit schtick/routine.  One wonders.....

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## DonGlock26

> You should calm down, grow up and get an education.. Obama is neither a Muslim nor a Communist.


Yeah, he's probably a secular humanist socialist with an anti-colonialist's trademark Sunni Muslim sympathies. 
That would explain his belonging to a black liberation theology church for two decades.
There's no way he could have missed the hatred for America in that den of vipers.

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## Virgil Jones

What a great thread. Who started it, that guy deserves a metal?

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Canadianeye (01-20-2015),Roadmaster (01-20-2015)

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## Victory

> So what.. the MB aren't terrorists..


OHHHHH. . .*SHIT!*

You're in it WAY deep!




> Have you followed their development since the 1960s? I have... that's what I meant about being well informed..


You're not well informed.  You didn't know the truth about WMDs and you couldn't see ISIS coming when everyone else saw it a mile away.  You're not well informed.  Face it.  Own it.  Live it.




> You simply paint all Arabs with the same brush. Is that willful or simply ignorance?


Neither.  It is your own prejudice talking.  Don't paint me with YOUR character flaws.

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## OptimaFemina

Will he stand with this?  Freedom of speech or religion?   

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...atue-in-italy/

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## OptimaFemina

> Will he stand with this?  Freedom of speech or religion?   
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...atue-in-italy/


I bet Charlie Hebdo would love this.  They weren't too different from that which they mocked.

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## Roadmaster

> I bet Charlie Hebdo would love this.  They weren't too different from that which they mocked.


 They both think it's ok to spit on our religion but get crazy when it's done to them.

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## Victory

> Will he stand with this?  Freedom of speech or religion?   
> 
> http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...atue-in-italy/


Watch how nobody gets beheaded.

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