# Stuff and Things > HISTORY, veterans & science >  The Science of the Covid Vaccine

## Jen

I know.
People are complaining.
Sorry but .......I'm not sorry.

We are in the 3rd phase testing area of this vax.  There is too much we don't know. There is so much we don't know about this vax that it is surprising that it has been distributed to the public.

This is a good informational video and only about 15 minutes.
It is a must watch.

The COVID Shots Caused More Deaths Than All Vaccines In The Past 20 Years

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BooBoo (09-15-2021),Conservative Libertarian (09-07-2021),Fall River (09-08-2021),OldSchool (09-18-2021),phoenyx (09-08-2021),Quark (09-07-2021),QuaseMarco (09-07-2021),Sunsettommy (09-10-2021),Swedgin (09-16-2021),WarriorRob (09-08-2021)

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## Quark

Ya that is good. Science has become a religion and the chief God is Fauci.

I saw this earlier and it's still good.

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Conservative Libertarian (09-07-2021),QuaseMarco (09-07-2021),WarriorRob (09-08-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Ya that is good. Science has become a religion and the chief God is Fauci.
> 
> I saw this earlier and it's still good.


Yeah, I saw this before too and I also agree, very good stuff.

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Quark (09-07-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> Ya that is good. Science has become a religion and the chief God is Fauci.
> 
> I saw this earlier and it's still good.


There are plenty of real scientists who want Fauci's head.

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OldSchool (09-18-2021),Quark (09-08-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> I know.
> People are complaining.
> Sorry but .......I'm not sorry.
> 
> We are in the 3rd phase testing area of this vax.  There is too much we don't know. There is so much we don't know about this vax that it is surprising that it has been distributed to the public.
> 
> This is a good informational video and only about 15 minutes.
> It is a must watch.
> 
> The COVID Shots Caused More Deaths Than All Vaccines In The Past 20 Years


There is an allergic reaction in a small fraction of the population.

There is also a loosening of the vascular walls in a small fraction of the population.

There are also immune complications in a small fraction of the population.

Add up all the small fractions, and it becomes a small "but significant" percentage.

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Jen (09-07-2021),Quark (09-08-2021)

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## Jen

> There is an allergic reaction in a small fraction of the population.
> 
> There is also a loosening of the vascular walls in a small fraction of the population.
> 
> There are also immune complications in a small fraction of the population.
> 
> Add up all the small fractions, and it becomes a small "but significant" percentage.


Usually, those "small but significant" percentages would halt distribution.  Usually.  Not this time.

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Quark (09-08-2021),WarriorRob (09-08-2021)

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## Fall River

> Usually, those "small but significant" percentages would halt distribution.  Usually.  *Not this time.*


No, "not this time" because you have to consider the context. This is a pandemic and the vaccines are not the same as ordinary medications for things like arthritis or other similar ailments. 

So in this particular situation, it may be important to weigh the harm done against the potential numbers of lives saved.  

But it's not for me to decide whether the vaccine is worth it or not because I am not a clearing house for the incoming data.

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## WarriorRob

Highly paid mass murderers :Geez:

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Quark (09-08-2021)

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## Fall River

> Highly paid mass murderers


The same could be said about some radio hosts who purposely misinform their listeners to score political points.

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## Fall River

> I know.
> People are complaining.
> Sorry but .......I'm not sorry.
> 
> We are in the 3rd phase testing area of this vax.  There is too much we don't know. There is so much we don't know about this vax that it is surprising that it has been distributed to the public.
> 
> This is a good informational video and only about 15 minutes.
> It is a must watch.
> 
> The COVID Shots Caused More Deaths Than All Vaccines In The Past 20 Years



In my opinion, I don't think the sound track is very good so I can't give an opinion on what the doctor said.  I could hear some words very clearly but then many words were mumble mumble jumble.  

But I got the impression he doesn't really know how many people died from being vaccinated versus how many lives were saved.  Too bad there's no transcript.

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## phoenyx

> In my opinion, I don't think the sound track is very good so I can't give an opinion on what the doctor said.  I could hear some words very clearly but then many words were mumble mumble jumble.  
> 
> But I got the impression he doesn't really know how many people died from being vaccinated versus how many lives were saved.  Too bad there's no transcript.


Thanks to a lawsuit filed by American's Frontline Doctors, I think we have an inkling of how many people have died in the U.S. due to vaccines- according to sworn testimony from a whistleblower, around 45,000 americans died within 3 days of getting a shot. Now, some of those deaths may well have happened regardless of whether they got the shot, but then, it's also true that some people probably died from shot complications -after- 3 days, so I think it probably balances out (source: Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony Claiming CDC Is Under-Counting Vaccine Deaths s Health Defense )


Now, as to how many people have died from Covid itself, that's much harder to figure out, due to all the over counting. But what I think is much more important is the fact that there is little evidence that these shots have protected anyone from Covid.

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OneDumbBlonde (09-09-2021),Sunsettommy (09-10-2021)

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## Fall River

> Thanks to a lawsuit filed by American's Frontline Doctors, I think we have an inkling of how many people have died in the U.S. due to vaccines- according to sworn testimony from a whistleblower, around 45,000 americans died within 3 days of getting a shot. Now, some of those deaths may well have happened regardless of whether they got the shot, but then, it's also true that some people probably died from shot complications -after- 3 days, so I think it probably balances out (source: Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony Claiming CDC Is Under-Counting Vaccine Deaths s Health Defense )


The fact that a lawsuit was filed doesn't prove anything.    





> Now, as to how many people have died from Covid itself, that's much harder to figure out, due to all the over counting. But what I think is much more important is the fact that there is little evidence that these shots have protected anyone from Covid.


Also, there's no significant proof of over-counting.  A similar case could be made for under-counting.  

The evidence that the vaccines protect people from COVID comes from the randomized double blind studies done by the drug companies.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Thanks to a lawsuit filed by American's Frontline Doctors, I think we have an inkling of how many people have died in the U.S. due to vaccines- according to sworn testimony from a whistleblower, around 45,000 americans died within 3 days of getting a shot. Now, some of those deaths may well have happened regardless of whether they got the shot, but then, it's also true that some people probably died from shot complications -after- 3 days, so I think it probably balances out (source: Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony Claiming CDC Is Under-Counting Vaccine Deaths s Health Defense )
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that a lawsuit was filed doesn't prove anything.



True. That being said, it -does- strongly suggest that there is significant evidence that the amount of people who have died shortly after getting vaccinated is being vastly under reported.





> Also, there's no significant proof of over-counting. A similar case could be made for under-counting.


I believe there's a lot more hard evidence for over counting than undercounting. I think the most damning article I've ever read regarding the official Covid detection narrative is this one:

COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian





> The evidence that the vaccines protect people from COVID comes from the randomized double blind studies done by the drug companies.


And you actually trust those studies I suppose. Many don't. As to why, here's a few articles you might find interesting:


Vaccine Billionaires and Human Guinea Pigs | Off Guardian

FDA officially approves Pfizer “vaccine”…despite incomplete trials | Off Guardian

COVID Vaccines: Necessity, Efficacy and Safety | Off Guardian

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OneDumbBlonde (09-11-2021)

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## QuaseMarco



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Authentic (09-18-2021),OneDumbBlonde (09-11-2021),phoenyx (09-10-2021)

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## phoenyx

> 


It makes a lot of sense if vaccines are actually causing "covid" cases. This would obviously make a lot more sense if viruses are either exosomes or non contagious, which is what I believe. In this scenario, vaccines may actually -create- exosomes/viruses in order to try to detoxify the body of the toxins in these vaccines.

However, even if viruses are contagious, an argument could still be made that vaccines, having toxins in them, would weaken the immune system and make it easier for these allegedly contagious viruses to do their thing.

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QuaseMarco (09-11-2021)

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## Fall River

> True. That being said, it -does- strongly suggest that there is significant evidence that the amount of people who have died shortly after getting vaccinated is being vastly under reported.


I don't think so. It simply means that with millions of people getting vaccinated, there may be thousands of people who had contracted the virus shortly before getting vaccinated and the vaccine came too late.  

BTW, I read the first link you provided saying that the pandemic was a "global fraud".  You actually trust those articles by the Guardian?"

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Call_me_Ishmael (09-11-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Fall River
> ...



You might feel differently if you read a lot of the VAERS reports. There is also the fact that the amount of VAERS adverse events, including deaths, has shot up dramatically this year in comparison to previous years as was mentioned in the opening post. Here's a graph that I think is informative:
VAERS Death Reports over the years.png



Here's the article that goes with said graph:
https://www.fakemediareport.net/post...acking-website




> BTW, I read the first link you provided saying that the pandemic was a "global fraud".  You actually trust those articles by the Guardian?"


The article isn't from The Guardian. They're from Off Guardian, which was founded by people who were tired of being censored on The Guardian. In any case, I have found Off Guardian to be one of the most reliable news sources online, which is why I tend to link to their articles a fair amount. You say you read the article- can you cite anything in it that you found to be dubious?

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QuaseMarco (09-11-2021)

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## QuaseMarco

> You might feel differently if you read a lot of the VAERS reports. There is also the fact that the amount of VAERS adverse events, including deaths, has shot up dramatically this year in comparison to previous years as was mentioned in the opening post. Here's a graph that I think is informative:
> VAERS Death Reports over the years.png
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the article that goes with said graph:
> https://www.fakemediareport.net/post...acking-website
> 
> 
> ...


Excellent points....................... I'm so fucking tired of these pro-vaxxers playing dumb.

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## phoenyx

> Excellent points....................... I'm so fucking tired of these pro-vaxxers playing dumb.


I haven't seen any hard evidence that any of them are playing dumb. I think it's more that they grew up believing that vaccinations were great or what not and it's hard to unlearn these types of things.

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OneDumbBlonde (09-12-2021)

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## Fall River

> You might feel differently if you read a lot of the VAERS reports. There is also the fact that the amount of VAERS adverse events, including deaths, has shot up dramatically this year in comparison to previous years as was mentioned in the opening post. Here's a graph that I think is informative:
> VAERS Death Reports over the years.png
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the article that goes with said graph:
> https://www.fakemediareport.net/post...acking-website


Why does your link say "www*fakemediareport*.net"?  Is it the truth or is it fake?  








> The article isn't from The Guardian. They're from Off Guardian, which was founded by people who were tired of being censored on The Guardian. In any case, I have found Off Guardian to be one of the most reliable news sources online, which is why I tend to link to their articles a fair amount. You say you read the article- can you cite anything in it that you found to be dubious?


First of all, the author says governmental responses appear to be part of an international conspiracy.  So he's saying that all the governments around the world weren't just fooled, they were in on a conspiracy.  How did they all get in on the same conspiracy?  Was there someone coordinating the conspiracy, telling them how to fake thousands of deaths?  Were ALL the governments around the world told how they would ultimately benefit by faking deaths and destroying their economies?  

And then he says, "Sometimes you have to go with your gut."  Well, perhaps he should see a gastroenterologist because his gut is lying to him.  

Then he continues on in paragraph 2 by saying, "I am not an expert in genetics and, as ever, stand to be corrected."

So here's a link to an article that might help to correct his thinking: AAAS

At the end of the article under *Acknowledgements*  it says, "The authors are supported by the Medical Research Council"

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## phoenyx

> Why does your link say "www*fakemediareport*.net"?  Is it the truth or is it fake?


I imagine you never actually clicked on the link. Had you, you would have seen the site's byline:
"REAL NEWS EXPOSING MEDIA TREASON"





> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> The article isn't from The Guardian. They're from Off Guardian, which was founded by people who were tired of being censored on The Guardian. In any case, I have found Off Guardian to be one of the most reliable news sources online, which is why I tend to link to their articles a fair amount. You say you read the article- can you cite anything in it that you found to be dubious?
> 
> 
> First of all, the author says governmental responses appear to be part of an international conspiracy.  So he's saying that all the governments around the world weren't just fooled, they were in on a conspiracy.



No, he's not saying that. Did you read the entire article or did you stop after the second paragraph?





> And then he says, "Sometimes you have to go with your gut."  Well, perhaps he should see a gastroenterologist.



Very funny. I think what he was trying to convey is that he decided to investigate various official covid narrative claims because he felt that they sounded suspicious. I imagine that was the "gut" bit. He then digs deep into the alleged evidence and found that most of it was fraudulent.





> Then he continues on in paragraph 2 by saying, "I am not an expert in genetics and, as ever, stand to be corrected."


I think it was good of him to acknowledge where he lacks certain expertise, as well as his acknowledgement that he may be mistaken.




> So here's a link to an article that might help to correct his thinking: AAAS


In theory, anything is possible. I disagreed with it from the first sentence, as I subscribe to the terrain theory branch that posits that viruses are not contagious and are probably just exosomes, which no one is saying are contagious. 




> At the end of the article under *Acknowledgements*  it says, "The authors are supported by the Medical Research Council"


I'm not familiar with the Medical Research Council, but I noted that they're not the only group who supported the authors. A little further along, it mentions that they are also supported by the Wellcome Trust. Some background on this institution:

**
Equally distressing is the “Wellcome Leap”, a new initiative created by the eugenics-linked Wellcome Trust, the world’s richest medical research Foundation, in partnership with two former DARPA frontmen. The program’s official aim is to _“Deliver breakthroughs in human health over 5 – 10 years and demonstrate seemingly impossible results on seemingly impossible timelines.”_

[snip]


However, the top contender for most disturbing Wellcome Leap project is, without a doubt, “The First 1000 days” (1kD), a program which seeks to use infants as test subjects in order to monitor their brain development and create AI models that can be used to “accurately predict and improve EF [executive function] outcomes”. The project also notes the use of “mobile-sensors, wearables and home-based systems”. In a detailed article on the matter, researcher Whitney Webb writes that:


_True to the eugenicist ties of the Wellcome Trust (to be explored more in-depth in Part 2), Wellcome Leap’s 1DK notes that “of interest are improvements from underdeveloped EF to normative or from normative to well-developed EF across the population to deliver the broadest impact.” One of the goals of 1DK is thus not treating disease or addressing a “global health public challenge” but instead experimenting on the cognitive augmentation of children using means developed by AI algorithms and invasive surveillance-based technology.”_
**

Source:
mRNA “Vaccines”, Eugenics & the Push for Transhumanism | Children's Health Defense

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## Fall River

In response to your recent link above: No one has to persuade me that the mRNA vaccines are risky. I posted about the risk back when the vaccines where being developed in 2020.  Although I may have done so from a different perspective, I explained the risk in my own words and it only took a couple of paragraphs. And I don't recall anyone challenging it. It had to do with promoting the production of proteins by cells.  

When someone posts links to articles written by journalists and the articles go on and on and on and on forever, I'm not at all impressed by that. 

However, if you really understand all the long articles you're posting, I'd like to see you prove it by simply summarizing it in your own words, in one or two short paragraphs. Otherwise it gives the impression of an elaborate  snow-job.

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## phoenyx

> In response to your recent link above: No one has to persuade me that the mRNA vaccines are risky. I posted about the risk back when the vaccines where being developed in 2020.  Although I may have done so from a different perspective, I explained the risk in my own words and it only took a couple of paragraphs. And I don't recall anyone challenging it. It had to do with promoting the production of proteins by cells.  
> 
> When someone posts links to articles written by journalists and the articles go on and on and on and on forever, I'm not at all impressed by that.


Alright, well you can continue to not be impressed by that. If you're ever interested in looking at the evidence, though, you may want to continue reading. I think you only got to the second paragraph, right? And no, I'm not going to do some coles notes version for you. If you're not interested in putting in the time, you're free to join other conversations that don't require you to read much.

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## phoenyx

Found an article over at the Gateway Pundit that I found to be quite interesting- it's short but to the point:
SHOCK REPORT: There Were More COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths Last Week in US than COVID-19 Deaths | Gateway Pundit

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## Fall River

> Alright, well you can continue to not be impressed by that. If you're ever interested in looking at the evidence, though, you may want to continue reading. I think you only got to the second paragraph, right? And no, I'm not going to do some coles notes version for you. If you're not interested in putting in the time, you're free to join other conversations that don't require you to read much.


That's exactly what I expected, you don't have a clue.  You don't understand it yourself.

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## Fall River

> Found an article over at the Gateway Pundit that I found to be quite interesting- it's short but to the point:
> SHOCK REPORT: There Were More COVID-19 Vaccine Deaths Last Week in US than COVID-19 Deaths | Gateway Pundit


How âGateway Punditâ Used Vaccine And Election Misinformation To Earn $1.1 Million In Google Ad Revenue

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Alright, well you can continue to not be impressed by that. If you're ever interested in looking at the evidence, though, you may want to continue reading. I think you only got to the second paragraph, right? And no, I'm not going to do some coles notes version for you. If you're not interested in putting in the time, you're free to join other conversations that don't require you to read much.
> 
> 
> 
> That's exactly what I expected, you don't have a clue.  You don't understand it yourself.


I think I understand it quite well. Now, if you had actually -read- the article, we could debate that point, but it looks like you stopped on the second paragraph. If there's any points beyond the second paragraph that you'd like to discuss, I'm here.

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## nonsqtr

> I know.
> People are complaining.
> Sorry but .......I'm not sorry.
> 
> We are in the 3rd phase testing area of this vax.  There is too much we don't know. There is so much we don't know about this vax that it is surprising that it has been distributed to the public.
> 
> This is a good informational video and only about 15 minutes.
> It is a must watch.
> 
> The COVID Shots Caused More Deaths Than All Vaccines In The Past 20 Years


Enough of the fear mongering, the real science is bad enough.

Actually it's worse than that.

Because of Covid, many countries have lowered or dropped their standards for giving blood.

For example - certain people who had traveled to places with high incidence of Mad Cow Disease were prevented from giving blood for a year. 

Well, those restrictions are now gone, thanks to Covid.




> To control potential transmission of vCJD within the United States, the FDA had established strict restrictions on individuals' eligibility to donate blood. Individuals who had spent a cumulative time of 3 months or more in the United Kingdom between 1980 and 1996, or a cumulative time of 5 years or more from 1980 to 2020 in any combination of countries in Europe, were prohibited from donating blood.[30]
> 
> Due to blood shortages associated with the 2020 COVID-19 outbreak, the FDA announced that these restrictions were rescinded effective immediately. They are expected to remain rescinded indefinitely.[31]
> 
> Similar rules also apply in Australia for any British expats.[32][33] Anyone who lived in the UK between 1980 and 1996 for longer than 6 months is prohibited from giving blood.[32] There are also prohibitions on donating breast milk and tissue.[34] This is partly because there is no appropriate screening test that donation centres can use.[32] However, there are no restrictions on organ donation.[32] Some blood donation organisations considered relaxing the rules after the COVID-19 pandemic and some natural disasters that depleted the blood supply.[35]

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## East of the Beast

> In my opinion, I don't think the sound track is very good so I can't give an opinion on what the doctor said.  I could hear some words very clearly but then many words were mumble mumble jumble.  
> 
> But I got the impression *he doesn't really know how many people died from being vaccinated versus how many lives were saved.*  Too bad there's no transcript.


How could anyone know that? What would zero vaccinations look like? You might say a lot more deaths, but how would you know?

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## Frankenvoter

> Enough of the fear mongering, the real science is bad enough.
> 
> Actually it's worse than that.
> 
> Because of Covid, many countries have lowered or dropped their standards for giving blood.
> 
> For example - certain people who had traveled to places with high incidence of Mad Cow Disease were prevented from giving blood for a year. 
> 
> Well, those restrictions are now gone, thanks to Covid.


I'm more worried about fags donating blood than anyone might have eaten a suspect hamburger.

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## Fall River

> Excellent points....................... I'm so *fucking* tired of these *pro-vaxxers* playing dumb.


Sounds very scientific, just what this science board needs.

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## Fall River

> How could anyone know that? What would zero vaccinations look like? You might say a lot more deaths, but how would you know?


The drug companies did randomized, double blind studies. There were two groups, the drug group and the placebo group.

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## Fall River

> I think I understand it quite well. Now, if you had actually -read- the article, we could debate that point, but it looks like you stopped on the second paragraph. If there's any points beyond the second paragraph that you'd like to discuss, I'm here.


https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/17/...-global-fraud/

Your link says, "There are no tests capable of identifying SARS-CoV-2"

But this link says otherwise: test to identify sars cov 2 roche - Google Search

Here's another: Roche - Rocheâs cobas SARS-CoV-2 Test to detect novel coronavirus receives FDA Emergency Use Authorization and is available in markets accepting the CE mark

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> You might feel differently if you read a lot of the VAERS reports. .........


VAERS...

I think it's revealing how some people will use VAERS reports when the following is true. 
(From the VAERS site)



> "*Anyone* can submit a report to VAERS — healthcare professionals, vaccine manufacturers, and the general public. VAERS welcomes all reports, *regardless of seriousness*, and *regardless of how likely the vaccine may have been to have caused the adverse event."*
> 
> VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC



So ANYONE can submit reports... even antivax fear mongers.  

Oh... I know .. its a federal law to file false reports.  Uh huh. But it's not a false report if you dont know if the vaccine caused the adverse event but submit a report anyhow. So if someone knows a person who was vaccinated and then had some medical event occur to them.. be it a rash, a sore arm, or even death after the vaccination, that someone can file a VAERS report.  That's all that's required for the report to be "legal". 

And since the identities of the person who supposedly has an adverse event and the person reporting, is kept confidential, no one outside the VAERs own system can validate reports, identify duplicates, or perform any useful analysis of the data. 


I've posted this before.  Anyone who continues to cite VAERS here in a post when they have no ability to verify reports is just being irresponsible. I see it as trolling since it is designed to elicit an emotional response of anger and fear. And one might ask...why?

If you don't want to take the vax, stand up for your rights. Even I, as a vaxed person, will help you defend your right to not take the vax. It needs to be a personal choice.  You don't need any fearmongering lies to justify your decision.  And if you use these fearmongering lies as your rationale,  you will not be taken seriously, you will be proven wrong, and will be left without a defense for your decision. These fear mongers posting nonsense are NOT helping those who don't want to take the vax.

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Fall River (09-15-2021)

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## ruthless terrier

> The drug companies did randomized, double blind studies. There were two groups, the drug group and the placebo group.



did they use obese and diabetic groups? did they differentiate between age groups and between races? inquiring minds need to know.

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Fall River (09-15-2021),phoenyx (09-15-2021)

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## phoenyx

> https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/17/...-global-fraud/
> 
> Your link says, "There are no tests capable of identifying SARS-CoV-2"



I imagine you pulled that from the 4th paragraph. Making progress :-). In any case, you apparently snipped away part of the sentence, which I think matters in this case. The complete sentence was:
"D-Salud-Discovery state there are no tests capable of identifying SARS-CoV-2. "




> But this link says otherwise: test to identify sars cov 2 roche - Google Search


People say a lot of things. I think the key is looking at the evidence.




> Here's another: Roche - Rocheâs cobas SARS-CoV-2 Test to detect novel coronavirus receives FDA Emergency Use Authorization and is available in markets accepting the CE mark


You've established that people are saying they can detect this alleged novel coronavirus. I've established that others are saying it can't be done. So we have the basis for a discussion- who is right? For my part, I will delineate the evidence that this alleged coronavirus can't be detected. From the article (underlined text goes to other pages in the original):

**
*Sometimes you have to go with your gut. I am not an expert in genetics and, as ever, stand to be corrected. However my attention was drawn to some research published by the Spanish medical journal D-Salud-Discovery. Their advisory board of eminently qualified physicians and scientists lends further credibility to their research. Their claim is astounding.


The genetic primers and probes used in RT-PCR tests to identify SARS-CoV-2 do not target anything specific. I followed the search techniques outlined in this English translation of their report and can corroborate the accuracy of their claims about the nucleotide sequences listed in the World Health Organisations protocols. You can do the same.


D-Salud-Discovery state there are no tests capable of identifying SARS-CoV-2.*
**


SO, we have established that the author is has arrived at his conclusion that no tests are capabable of identifying SARS-Cov-2 based on some research published in a spanish medical journal. I think we can agree that to go any further here, it would be good to look at the journal article in question. Fortunately, the author included a link to an english translation of said article. It's here:
http://philosophers-stone.info/wp-co...ember-2020.pdf


If you disagree with any of their findings, by all means, let me know.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> _You might feel differently if you read a lot of the VAERS reports. ........._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> VAERS...
> 
> ...


And with good reason- we wouldn't want to miss any adverse events caused by the vaccines simply because someone -thought- that the vaccine wasn't responsible, now, would we? Now, I notice you haven't brought up something -else- the CDC has stated. Namely this:
**
Vaccine safety experts review all reports of serious adverse events submitted to VAERS. A serious adverse event after vaccination is something that causes

Permanent disabilityHospitalization or an extended hospital stay (if vaccinated while in the hospital)Life-threatening illnessBirth defects (congenital anomalies)Death
**

Source:
Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)  | CDC


Children's Health Defense decided to ask them how they were doing. To date, they've been stonewalled:
**
187 days and counting, CDC ignores The Defenders inquiries
According to the CDC website, the CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information and learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or unrelated.
On March 8, The Defender contacted the CDC with a written list of questions about reported deaths and injuries related to COVID vaccines. We have made repeated attempts, by phone and email, to obtain a response to our questions.
Despite multiple phone and email communications with many people at the CDC, and despite being told that our request was in the system and that someone would respond, we have not yet received answers to any of the questions we submitted. It has been 187 days since we sent our first email to the CDC requesting information.
**
source:
Reports of Injuries, Deaths After COVID Vaccines Hit New Highs, as Biden Rolls Out Plan to Force 100 Million More Americans to Get Vaccinated s Health Defense


So tell me Ishmael, why do you suppose the CDC is engaging in this stonewalling?

----------


## phoenyx

> did they use obese and diabetic groups? did they differentiate between age groups and between races? inquiring minds need to know.


Good questions :-). I don't know the answers, but you may find the following article interesting:

Pfizer Says Trials Show COVID Vaccine Is 90% Effective, But Questions Remain on Safety of Novel Tech | Children's Health Defense

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> And with good reason- we wouldn't want to miss any adverse events caused by the vaccines simply because someone -thought- that the vaccine wasn't responsible, now, would we? Now, I notice you haven't brought up something -else- the CDC has stated. Namely this:
> **
> Vaccine safety experts review all reports of serious adverse events submitted to VAERS. A serious adverse event after vaccination is something that causes
> 
> Permanent disabilityHospitalization or an extended hospital stay (if vaccinated while in the hospital)Life-threatening illnessBirth defects (congenital anomalies)Death
> **
> 
> Source:
> Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)  | CDC
> ...


You said nothing to indicate that VAERS is a reliable database for you to use.  You can indict the CDC all day long. I dont defend them. But challenging the CDC still does nothing to validate the VAERS data base as something useful for the public.  

Try again to refute my post.  You will fail.

----------


## phoenyx

> You said nothing to indicate that VAERS is a reliable database for you to use.  You can indict the CDC all day long. I dont defend them. But challenging the CDC still does nothing to validate the VAERS data base as something useful for the public.


I never said that VAERS is reliable to determine how many people have been harmed or even killed due to vaccines. As mentioned elsewhere, there is solid evidence that there are -much- more adverse events following vaccines than VAERS reports:
Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony

As the whistleblower mentions, while VAERS can be extremely useful, the actual amount of people who have suffered adverse events is at least 5 times higher than the reports they get.


Another point that is immensely important is the fact that the CDC has been stonewalling an inquiry by Children's Health Defense regarding the CDC's claims that they are investigating all serious adverse event reports. I just made a thread on that subject here:
Why is the CDC stonewalling Children's Health Defense's inquiries?

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> I never said that VAERS is reliable to determine how many people have been harmed or even killed due to vaccines. As mentioned elsewhere, there is solid evidence that there are -much- more adverse events following vaccines than VAERS reports:
> Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony
> 
> As the whistleblower mentions, while VAERS can be extremely useful, the actual amount of people who have suffered adverse events is at least 5 times higher than the reports they get.
> 
> 
> Another point that is immensely important is the fact that the CDC has been stonewalling an inquiry by Children's Health Defense regarding the CDC's claims that they are investigating all serious adverse event reports. I just made a thread on that subject here:
> Why is the CDC stonewalling Children's Health Defense's inquiries?


Likewise, there is solid evidence that antivax fear mongers will report every correlation as a causal event.  Right here in this forum. It is done all the time.  Just like I showed in the myocarditis thread with the young athlete.  The stats are such that even without the vaccines causing the illness there will be plenty of hospitalizations for myocarditis within a month AFTER a covid vaccination. You people here are are saying that myocarditis after the vax proves the vaccine CAUSES Myocarditis.  How many people like you will report that on VAERS ? 

Do you cannot conclude that the data base underreports adverse events caused by the vax.  

There are certainly adverse events that are caused by the vax. But VAERS is not going to tell YOU (or anyone without investigating each case) which are causal relationships and which arn't.

----------


## BooBoo

> I know.
> People are complaining.
> Sorry but .......I'm not sorry.
> 
> We are in the 3rd phase testing area of this vax.  There is too much we don't know. There is so much we don't know about this vax that it is surprising that it has been distributed to the public.
> 
> This is a good informational video and only about 15 minutes.
> It is a must watch.
> 
> The COVID Shots Caused More Deaths Than All Vaccines In The Past 20 Years


NO Shot 4 Me...!!!

Reminds BooBoo of this song :

----------

Jen (09-15-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Likewise, there is solid evidence that antivax fear mongers will report every correlation as a causal event.  Right here in this forum. It is done all the time.  Just like I showed in the myocarditis thread with the young athlete.  The stats are such that even without the vaccines causing the illness there will be plenty of hospitalizations for myocarditis within a month AFTER a covid vaccination. You people here are are saying that proves the vaccine CAUSES Myocarditis.  How many people like you will report that on VAERS ? 
> 
> Do you cannot conclude that the data base underreports adverse events caused by the vax.  
> 
> There are certainly adverse events that are caused by the vax. But VAERS is not going to tell YOU (or anyone without investigating each case) which are causal relationships and which arn't.



I acknowledge that those who distrust Covid vaccines have at times said that all reported adverse events are caused by the vaccine. I have personally done my best not to make this mistake. That being said, I also believe the whistleblower who says that the -amount- of people who have died within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine is at least 5 times higher than what VAERS has reported. Since VAERS reported a little over 9,000 american deaths within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine, that would be at least 45,000 american people who died within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine. Now, I'm not saying that all 45,000 of those deaths are definitely linked to the vaccines. That being said, these types of adverse event numbers are -way- higher than we have gotten in previous years. Surely we can agree that that is significant. I also believe the fact that the CDC is stonewalling Children's Health Defense regarding their alleged investigation of the reported VAERS deaths, as well as the many reported injuries after getting a Covid vaccine should give anyone evaluating the safety of these covid vaccines cause for concern.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> I acknowledge that those who distrust Covid vaccines have at times said that all reported adverse events are caused by the vaccine. I have personally done my best not to make this mistake. That being said, I also believe the whistleblower who says that the -amount- of people who have died within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine is at least 5 times higher than what VAERS has reported. Since VAERS reported a little over 9,000 american deaths within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine, that would be at least 45,000 american people who died within 3 days of getting a Covid vaccine. Now, I'm not saying that all 45,000 of those deaths are definitely linked to the vaccines. That being said, these types of adverse event numbers are -way- higher than we have gotten in previous years. Surely we can agree that that is significant. I also believe the fact that the CDC is stonewalling Children's Health Defense regarding their alleged investigation of the reported VAERS deaths, as well as the many reported injuries after getting a Covid vaccine should give anyone evaluating the safety of these covid vaccines cause for concern.


Post the data and the analysis from the "whistleblower".

----------

BooBoo (09-15-2021)

----------


## Fall River

> did they use obese and diabetic groups? did they differentiate between age groups and between races? inquiring minds need to know.


Yes, it was a large randomized study including 30,000 people, and then they requested permission to include another 14,000. So it went to 44,000. 

And it was a diverse group that included children as young as 16 and people with chronic underlying conditions.

Pfizers COVID-19 vaccine trial reaches 30,000 person milestone | wnep.com

----------


## Fall River

> http://philosophers-stone.info/wp-co...ember-2020.pdf
> 
> 
> If you disagree with any of their findings, by all means, let me know.


The problem I find is stated in the heading of the article: "The scam has been confirmed, PCR does not detect SARS-CoV-2"

PCR is only one test among others. The main problem with the PCR is that it is not 100% accurate. But there are other tests.

What are the different types of Covid-19 test and how do they work?.

----------


## phoenyx

> Post the data and the analysis from the "whistleblower".



So far, I'm only aware of her sworn testimony. Here it is:

**
DECLARATION OF Jane DoePursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1746, Jane Doe, herebydeclares:

I am fully competent to make this declaration and I have personal knowledge of the facts stated in this declaration.

This declaration is submitted in support of legal actions to revoke the emergency use authorization for COVID-19 injections and in support of a preliminary injunction to immediately block the emergency use authorization for COVID-19 injections.

I am a computer programmer with subject matter expertise in thehealthcare data analytics field, an honor that allows me access to Medicareand Medicaid data maintained by the Centers for Medicare and MedicaidServices (CMS). I earned a B.S. degree in Mathematics and have, over thelast 25 years, developed over 100 distinct healthcare fraud detectionalgorithms, both in the public and private sector. It has been my mission toprotect federal tax dollars by preventing and detecting healthcare fraud, aprocess which leads to both recovery of overpayments and law enforcementleads. A large part of what I do is focused on the quality of care for thebeneficiary; for example, I identify providers who prescribe an egregiousamount of opioids to patients with a history of overdosing. Instead of titratingthe patient off of opioids, they prescribe more, oftentimes leading to patientdeath. When the COVID-19 vaccine clearly became associated with patient
death and harm, I was naturally inclined to investigate the matter.

It is my professional estimate that VAERS (the Vaccine Adverse EventReporting System) database, while extremely useful, is under-reportedby a conservative factor of at least 5. On July 9, 2021, there were9,048 deaths reported in VAERS. I verified these numbers bycollating all of the data from VAERS myself, not relying on a thirdparty to report them. In tandem, I queried data from CMS medicalclaims with regard to vaccines and patient deaths, and have assessedthat the deaths occurring within 3 days of vaccination are higher thanthose reported in VAERS by a factor of at least 5. This would indicatethe true number of vaccine-related deaths was at least 45,000. Put inperspective, the swine flu vaccine was taken off the market which onlyresulted in 53 deaths.

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United Statesof America that the foregoing is true and correct.

Executed on July 13, 2021.
**


Source:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/3c6...eclaration.pdf

----------


## phoenyx

> Yes, it was a large randomized study including 30,000 people, and then they requested permission to include another 14,000. So it went to 44,000. 
> 
> And it was a diverse group that included children as young as 16 and people with chronic underlying conditions.
> 
> Pfizers COVID-19 vaccine trial reaches 30,000 person milestone | wnep.com



What do you think about the following study?

Adolescent Boys at Higher Risk of Hospitalization From Pfizer Vaccine Than From COVID | Children's Health Defense

The problems of youth getting Covid vaccines isn't just in studies either. Recently, an article came out in a mainstream newspaper on this issue in my home city:
Over 100 Ontario youth sent to hospital for heart problems: Report | Toronto Sun

----------


## phoenyx

> The problem I find is stated in the heading of the article: "The scam has been confirmed, PCR does not detect SARS-CoV-2"
> 
> PCR is only one test among others. The main problem with the PCR is that it is not 100% accurate. But there are other tests.



They are going far beyond saying that it isn't "100% accurate". They're saying that it doesn't detect the Cov 2 virus at all.




> What are the different types of Covid-19 test and how do they work?.


Yes, I am aware that there are other methods of testing, such as antibody testing, which is mentioned in your article. A journalist friend of mine had a few things to say about these tests:

The Antibody Deception - Rosemary Frei

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> So far, I'm only aware of her sworn testimony. Here it is:
> 
> **
> DECLARATION OF Jane DoePursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1746, Jane Doe, herebydeclares:
> 
> I am fully competent to make this declaration and I have personal knowledge of the facts stated in this declaration.
> 
> This declaration is submitted in support of legal actions to revoke the emergency use authorization for COVID-19 injections and in support of a preliminary injunction to immediately block the emergency use authorization for COVID-19 injections.
> 
> ...


You realize that the only thing she is swearing to is that it is her professional estimate.  You realize that's nothing, don't you?  For God sake.... she can be using pigeon scratch math and she won't be perjuring herself. 


God you people are hopeless

----------

BooBoo (09-15-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> You realize that the only thing she is swearing to is that it is her professional estimate.


She said far more than that. For starters, she is a professional in the field of health care data analytics, has a B.S. degree in mathematics and perhaps most importantly, over the last 25 years she has developed over 100 distinct healthcare fraud detection algorithms, both for the public and private sectors. She further stated that she has used those skills to protect federal tax dollars by preventing and detecting healthcare fraud. Furthermore, she states that a lot of what she does is to help the end recipients, that is, the patients who trust that there are those in the health care industry who are looking out for them.


Finally, perhaps most importantly, she also stated that she verified the 9,048 deaths reported in VAERS and that she queried data from sources that most people simply don't have access to, namely CMS medical claims. 


Now, I would certainly like to know more on how she came to our conclusions, but I suspect the reason she hasn't revealed more is the same reason she is an anonymous whistleblower. I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess that the pharmaceutical companies making billions off of these vaccines would love to know who she is so that they could engage in some smearing campaigns or worse. 

It is my hope that we learn more of this woman who I think probably deserves a medal for her bravery.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> She said far more than that. For starters, she is a professional in the field of health care data analytics, has a B.S. degree in mathematics and perhaps most importantly, over the last 25 years she has developed over 100 distinct healthcare fraud detection algorithms, both for the public and private sectors. She further stated that she has used those skills to protect federal tax dollars by preventing and detecting healthcare fraud. Furthermore, she states that a lot of what she does is to help the end recipients, that is, the patients who trust that there are those in the health care industry who are looking out for them.
> 
> 
> Finally, perhaps most importantly, she also stated that she verified the 9,048 deaths reported in VAERS and that she queried data from sources that most people simply don't have access to, namely CMS medical claims. 
> 
> 
> Now, I would certainly like to know more on how she came to our conclusions, but I suspect the reason she hasn't revealed more is the same reason she is an anonymous whistleblower. I think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess that the pharmaceutical companies making billions off of these vaccines would love to know who she is so that they could engage in some smearing campaigns or worse. 
> 
> It is my hope that we learn more of this woman who I think probably deserves a medal for her bravery.


But until we can review her work,  it's meaningless. She would not have to reveal her identity in order to put her complete research results and analysis out for peer review.  Why doesn't she do that?
 @phoenyx. Why do you think she is not putting her out there for review?

----------


## phoenyx

> But until we can review her work, it's meaningless.


It's not meaningless. I believe the fact that she is going in as a whistleblower is that she is alleging that there are some very dark truths here. 





> She would not have to reveal her identity in order to put her complete research results and analysis out for peer review.


It may be that revealing more on her results would reveal her identity to people who might wish her harm.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> It's not meaningless. I believe the fact that she is going in as a whistleblower is that she is alleging that there are some very dark truths here. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may be that revealing more on her results would reveal her identity to people who might wish her harm.


Get back to me when her analysis is vetted.

----------


## nonsqtr

Here is some Covid SCIENCE.

The first two steps in a Covid virus infection are:

1. the virus recognizes a host receptor
2. the virus fuses with the host membrane and gains entry to the cell

Both of these functions are mediated by the coronavirus spike protein ("S protein").

The S protein, has two parts. One part binds to the host receptor, the other part mediates membrane fusion. It is the receptor portion that mediates antigenicity and is the target of antibodies.

HOWEVER, it is the membrane fusion subsegment which is highly conserved genetically, in ALL coronavirus variants. The receptor subsequent is NOT conserved, it is highly variable. Antibodies developed against SARS do not work on SARS-2.

The existing mRNA vaccines target the receptor subsegment.

Therefore, THEY ARE TARGETING THE WRONG THING.

If they targeted the membrane fusion subsegment instead, we'd only need ONE vaccine and there would be no need for boosters. And Covid variants wouldn't be scary anymore.

Coronavirus membrane fusion mechanism offers a potential target for antiviral development

----------


## phoenyx

> Here is some Covid SCIENCE.
> 
> The first two steps in a Covid virus infection are:
> 
> 1. the virus recognizes a host receptor
> 2. the virus fuses with the host membrane and gains entry to the cell
> 
> Both of these functions are mediated by the coronavirus spike protein ("S protein").
> 
> ...


This assumes that that they've actually discovered an infectious virus to begin with. I and others believe they've never actually discovered one. An article that I believe goes a long way to explaining how that happened is here:


COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

----------


## nonsqtr

> This assumes that that they've actually discovered an infectious virus to begin with. I and others believe they've never actually discovered one. An article that I believe goes a long way to explaining how that happened is here:
> 
> 
> COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian


I'm not going to waste any more time with your "beliefs".

If you have SCIENCE, let's hear it.

So far you don't have any.

Shit or get off the pot.

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> I'm not going to waste any more time with your "beliefs".
> 
> If you have SCIENCE, let's hear it.
> 
> So far you don't have any.
> 
> Shit or get off the pot.


Crude as usual I see. Read the article if you're interested in the evidence.

----------


## nonsqtr

> Crude as usual I see. Read the article if you're interested in the evidence.


Hear me loud and clear:

YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE.

I'M NOT WASTING ANY MORE TIME WITH YOUR LACK OF SCIENCE.

YOUR BELIEFS DO NOT CONSTITUTE SCIENCE.

I AM *NOT INTERESTED* IN YOUR WILD FANTASIES.

Yes, things are gonna get crude around here if you keep going with this stupid bullshit.

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> Crude as usual I see. Read the article if you're interested in the evidence.


NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR FEAR MONGERING BULLSHIT.

CLEAR ENOUGH ???

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

Now let's get back to the science.

If you want to know about the S protein, study prions.

Prions have the exact same behavior as the S protein.

The S protein forms a trimer, and some variants require one of the trimer subunits to be upside down for membrane fusion.

Prions are like viruses without a shell. The interesting thing about prions is the proteins are infectious ALL BY THEMSELVES. They don't require a virus to transmit them. Yet they are still highly infectious, they can be eaten or rubbed into the eyes.

----------


## nonsqtr

Quite a lot is known about the Covid spike protein by now.

A thermostable, closed SARS-CoV-2 spike protein trimer | Nature Structural  Molecular Biology

Here is what's important:

In the trimer configuration, once the subunits are closed, THE PROTEIN STOPS BINDING TO THE RECEPTOR.

Frontiers | Investigation of the Effect of Temperature on the Structure of SARS-CoV-2 Spike Protein by Molecular Dynamics Simulations | Molecular Biosciences

Denaturation by heat is verified in at least half a dozen studies.

Synthesis and Characterization of a Native, Oligomeric Form of Recombinant Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Spike Glycoprotein

The trimer form of the S protein is specifically involved in immunogenesis.




> Our data indicate that the SARS-CoV spike glycoprotein is expressed as a plasma membrane-associated, uncleaved, homotrimeric form for which the quaternary structure is similar to that of TGEV. A C-terminally truncated form can be secreted into the cell medium primarily in a nonoligomeric form. Since the S protein is a likely candidate for inducing protective immunity, the elucidation of this native form of the recombinant S glycoprotein is likely to be crucial for the development of effective vaccines.


Synthesis and Characterization of a Native, Oligomeric Form of Recombinant Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus Spike Glycoprotein

----------

QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

The SCIENCE says that an effective vaccine should be possible.

It's not that "vaccines don't work", or that "the virus doesn't exist" - it's that we are JUST NOW beginning to understand the biophysics of this virus -

And anything - and anyONE - who makes definitive statements at this point is just being a highly unscientific idiot.

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

If you're interested in what the spike protein actually looks like, here's some pretty pictures 

https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10...-110615-042301

----------


## nonsqtr

I was right.

Here's why we have the vaccines we do:

AAAS

They targeted the wrong subunit "because it bound better".

----------


## phoenyx

> Hear me loud and clear:
> 
> [shouting and verbal abuse]


Yeah, I hear you.

----------


## phoenyx

> If you're interested in what the spike protein actually looks like, here's some pretty pictures 
> 
> https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10...-110615-042301


I know there are lots of papers with ideas as to a Covid 19 virus. It doesn't change the evidence that strongly suggests that there is no infectious Covid 19 virus, as I pointed out in Post #56. You want to debate said evidence, go ahead, but saying, "never mind that evidence, look at my papers" doesn't negate said evidence.

----------


## nonsqtr

> I know there are lots of papers with ideas as to a Covid 19 virus. It doesn't change the evidence that strongly suggests that there is no infectious Covid 19 virus, as I pointed out in Post #56. You want to debate said evidence, go ahead, but saying, "never mind that evidence, look at my papers" doesn't negate said evidence.


THERE IS *NO" EVIDENCE THAT SAYS COVID DOESNT EXIST.

*STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT.*

And notice I'm not saying please anymore.

*STOP* with your lying fear mongering bullshit.  :Mad:

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> I know there are lots of papers with ideas as to a Covid 19 virus. It doesn't change the evidence that strongly suggests that there is no infectious Covid 19 virus, as I pointed out in Post #56. You want to debate said evidence, go ahead, but saying, "never mind that evidence, look at my papers" doesn't negate said evidence.


THERE IS NO EVIDENCE.

*NOTHING* you've posted is "evidence".

*STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT.*

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> I know there are lots of papers with ideas as to a Covid 19 virus. It doesn't change the evidence that strongly suggests that there is no infectious Covid 19 virus, as I pointed out in Post #56. You want to debate said evidence, go ahead, but saying, "never mind that evidence, look at my papers" doesn't negate said evidence.


Your so-called "evidence" negates itself.

Hey, I have 228 fully sequenced variants of coronavirus S protein. WTF have you got, some dumbass who spent 20 years in the wild studying the nutritional habits of aboriginal pygmies?

If the goddamn virus doesn't exist then HOW THE HELL DID THEY GET THE GENETIC SEQIENCES OF 228 OF ITS VARIANTS ???

Go away. You're not qualified to speak about science, much less challenge it.

Your belief on this matter is worthless, and your opinion stinks. Happy now?

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Your so-called "evidence" negates itself.


I've never seen evidence do that, but you're welcome to try to prove that it can.




> Hey, I have 228 fully sequenced variants of coronavirus S protein.


If you say so.





> [various insults]


If you want me to stop reading your posts, you might try to stop with all the insults.

----------


## nonsqtr

> I've never seen evidence do that, but you're welcome to try to prove that it can.
> 
> 
> 
> If you say so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want me to stop reading your posts, you might try to stop with all the insults.


No, I'll do better than that. I'll put your silly ignorant ass on IGNORE because I'm tired of reading the Russian disinformation.

So far we have clearly established that you're a whacky conspiracy nut who can't be swayed by evidence or truth.

That means you're fucking crazy and it's not worth speaking with you anymore.

Clear enough?

Just for the record, you DO NOT represent conservatives or conservative thinking. You are an extremist conspiracy theorist, just about a textbook case.

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

Jesus H Christ - imagine that, a SCIENCE thread and someone tries to tell us viruses don't exist.

That may be the single dumbest thing I've ever heard in an online forum. (Well... okay, it's right up there).

Yeah, right. Go tell the pHarmas that SV40 doesn't exist. Go ahead, see what happens. lol  :Grin: 

The PROBLEM with these idiotic mindsets, is they actually IMPEDE real research.

Because people end up "debating whether viruses exist" instead of studying the folding patterns of the S protein.

If I were running this forum I wouldn't ALLOW such stupidity, I'd find the nearest convenient bit bucket to hide it in so no one would run screaming from the forum if this were their first impression.

Here we have a thread about the SCIENCE OF COVID and some fool tries to derail the thread with non-science and anti-science, and bullshit politics not-even-disguised as science.

This kinda crap has to stop. Scientific debates are one thing, but this nutty conspiracy crap has to stop.

Every conservative should STAND DOWN with the bullshit at this point. Q'Anon, Covid, fucking 5G, this stuff is NUTS, it's completely detached from reality.

Reality is, we have PICTURES of the corona virus. We have the sequences of all its variants. We even know how the proteins fold. We even know which PARTS of the folded protein are required for infection, and how they can be refolded to render them harmless.

If these fucking conspiracy nuts would just STAND DOWN and give the scientists time to do their work, maybe in a couple of years we'll have a treatment that actually works. Maybe even against "all" the variants.

----------

Fall River (09-16-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> No, I'll do better than that. I'll put your [insults removed] on IGNORE because I'm tired of reading the Russian disinformation.


That might actually be better for both of us. I'll be able to comment on what you say without having to worry about your expletives in response.

----------


## phoenyx

> Jesus H Christ - imagine that, a SCIENCE thread and someone tries to tell us viruses don't exist.


Science is all about looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions. There is nothing in science that says that any particular theory is sacrosanct.

----------


## valley ranch

Well guys ,,, I've heard of a lot of people injury from the vaccine,  many good friend an family have taken the shots, I don't like the idea of these things being tested on the population, 

Everyone is on one side or the other, and angry because the other side is wrong,,

Heck with this shit in the arm ,shot I mean and heck with the mask,,, 
Hope you are both health and stay that way, good night ,,,

----------

Physics Hunter (09-18-2021)

----------


## Authentic

RUSSIAN disinformation? Where have we heard that before, and from whom?

----------


## nonsqtr

> Science is all about looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions.


NO !!!

That is NOT science!

There are THREE steps in between what you mentioned, and if you're not doing them, you're NOT DOING SCIENCE! !!!

/slap!

WTF did I just tell you?

Reading a book and drawing conclusions is NOT science!

Didn't they teach you people anything in high school?  :Mad:

----------


## nonsqtr

> RUSSIAN disinformation? Where have we heard that before, and from whom?


Those are the only people who would get on here and start debating whether viruses exist.

Even the Chinese aren't that stupid

----------


## Authentic

> Those are the only people who would get on here and start debating whether viruses exist.
> 
> Even the Chinese aren't that stupid


I wonder if viruses exist. I am not Russian.

----------


## Authentic

Could viruses be exosomes?

----------

phoenyx (09-18-2021)

----------


## Authentic

> Get back to me when her analysis is vetted.


Vetted by whom?

----------

phoenyx (09-18-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> Well guys ,,, I've heard of a lot of people injury from the vaccine,  many good friend an family have taken the shots, I don't like the idea of these things being tested on the population, 
> 
> Everyone is on one side or the other, and angry because the other side is wrong,,
> 
> Heck with this shit in the arm ,shot I mean and heck with the mask,,, 
> Hope you are both health and stay that way, good night ,,,


The other side is not "wrong", they're too stupid to be 'wrong".

The other side is PREVENTING THE TIMELY DISSEMINATION OF LEGITIMATE MEDICAL INFORMATION. That's the problem.

Censorship is the problem. Bullshit politics is the problem. IGNORANCE is the problem.

If anyone would actually study the science we wouldn't have so much ignorance. It's out there, but google won't link to it, and people are too lazy to go to duckduckgo instead.

----------

QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## Physics Hunter

This is a humour thread.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## nonsqtr

> This is a humour thread.


If you happen not to be scared.

----------


## nonsqtr

> Vetted by whom?


'Anyone"?

It's called peer review.

----------


## nonsqtr

> Could viruses be exosomes?


Let's put it this way - they have a better chance of suddenly becoming Rodney Dangerfield.

----------


## Authentic

> Let's put it this way - they have a better chance of suddenly becoming Rodney Dangerfield.


Viruses get no respect?

----------


## nonsqtr

> Viruses get no respect?


People keep calling them exosomes...

 :Dontknow:

----------


## nonsqtr

> Could viruses be exosomes?


Exosomes are something specific. It has to do with ILV's and MVB's. They're most definitely NOT viruses. They have a whole different set of internal pathways.

In fact, I can prove it.

Meet the Epstein-Barr virus. (No relation, I'm sure).



Look familiar?

Here's a picture of exosomes in an EB-transformed cell.



The cell is not "secreting" anything, it's actually communicating with the immune system, specifically the antigen specific T cells which then interact with B cells to release more lymphocytes.

----------


## nonsqtr

If you study "infection", you will eventually realize, that 100% of it has to do with protein folding.

The simplest infectious agents are called prions. They are single proteins, nothing more.

It's even more specific than that - only a new "version" ("configuration") of the protein may be infectious, depending on the way it folds.

With the prion protein, the presence of misfolded proteins CAUSES misfolding in the others, which is what causes the infection.

With prions there is no virus, no rna or dna, just a tiny little piece of protein. Most proteins, if they have multiple structural forms, will flex between the forms, but not prions. Once a prion is misfolded it stays that way. 

So the idea of an "infection" is basically anything that can take up residence in the host and alter its physiology. Prions are implicated in human illnesses as diverse as CJ, GSS, FII, ALS, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's.

----------

Foghorn (09-18-2021),QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## QuaseMarco

> I haven't seen any hard evidence that any of them are playing dumb. I think it's more that they grew up believing that vaccinations were great or what not and it's hard to unlearn these types of things.


I'm shaking my head.................... what happened to me?........... 
I've never trusted doctors much the older I got.

----------

phoenyx (09-18-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> I wonder if viruses exist. I am not Russian.


Chinese?

----------


## CWF

The real pandemic, and a much more serious one, is that of mental retardation. The harm done is to every individual on the planet.

A vaccine for this disease would erase the democrat party right out of existence.  Think about that, folks.  All those idiots, GONE.  Minds cleared. The Swamp becomes an oasis of learning and real leadership.  No more reaching across the aisle to be buds and increase the deadly infection.

Work on that one Medical Science.  And hurry up too.  The ICU is running out of gas.

----------

nonsqtr (09-18-2021),QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Science is all about looking at the evidence and drawing conclusions. There is nothing in science that says that any particular theory is sacrosanct.
> 
> 
> 
> NO !!!


I thought you were ignoring me?




> That is NOT science!
> 
> There are THREE steps in between what you mentioned, and if you're not doing them, you're NOT DOING SCIENCE! !!!


I think you may be confusing science as an idea with the scientific method. Even the scientific method isn't ironclad, but I'll quote a bit of Wikipedia's article on it:
**
The overall process involves making conjectures (hypotheses), deriving predictions from them as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments based on those predictions to determine whether the original conjecture was correct.[4] There are difficulties in a formulaic statement of method, however. Though the scientific method is often presented as a fixed sequence of steps, these actions are better considered as general principles.[8] Not all steps take place in every scientific inquiry (nor to the same degree), and they are not always done in the same order. 
**
Source:
Scientific method - Wikipedia


As to the definition of science itself, I think the first sentence in Wikipedia's article on it is good:
**
*Science (from Latin scientia 'knowledge')[1] is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.*
**
Source:
Science - Wikipedia

----------


## phoenyx

> I'm shaking my head.................... what happened to me?........... 
> I've never trusted doctors much the older I got.


Same, for the most part. However, I've found that I do trust -some- doctors to some extent. One I'm finding particularly good these days is Dr. Sam Bailey, from New Zealand. She's started to work on a documentary series for the book she's become a part of, Virus Mania, which I just happened to buy the kindle edition of a few minutes ago (looking good). Here's her video on this work:

----------

Foghorn (09-18-2021),QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Exosomes are something specific. It has to do with ILV's and MVB's. They're most definitely NOT viruses. They have a whole different set of internal pathways.
> 
> In fact, I can prove it.
> 
> Meet the Epstein-Barr virus. (No relation, I'm sure).
> 
> 
> 
> Look familiar?
> ...


I think that pic of the Epstein-Barr virus, from the Herpes family, is just an artist's rendition of it. Here's an excerpt from a book I just bought called Virus mania on what may have been the first alleged discoveries from the Herpes family of viruses:


**
Long ago, scientists observed that toxins in the body could produce these physiological reactions, yet current medicine sees this only from the perspective of exogenous viruses. In 1954, the scientist Ralph Scobey reported in the journal Archives of Pediatrics, that herpes simplex had developed after the injection of vaccines, the drinking of milk or the ingestion of certain foodstuffs; while herpes zoster (shingles) arose after ingestion or injection of heavy metals like arsenic and bismuth or alcohol.220**


Source:
Engelbrecht, Torsten; Köhnlein, Claus; Bailey, Samantha; Scoglio, Stefano. Virus Mania (p. 55). Books on Demand. Kindle Edition.

----------


## Foghorn

Has science now devolved into the most dangerous religion in the world?

----------


## phoenyx

> Could viruses be exosomes?


I'd like to think that you are honestly unsure. I myself am still wrestling with this question. I want to learn more, and so in that pursuit, I bought yet another book on all of this called Virus Mania. I know that one of the proponents of the theory that viruses are in fact exosomes is covered in this book, Dr. Andrew Kaufman. I just found an article on his work on this, in case anyone would like to look:
Coronavirus: Dr. Andrew Kaufman and the Exosomes - eClassifie

----------


## phoenyx

> Has science now devolved into the most dangerous religion in the world?


Based on the true definition of science, I believe it is innocent of man's foibles. The problem is people using the -name- of science, when they are really more interested in creating a religion. I think it's similar to how religions have used the name of God for their own personal vendettas.

----------


## flack

CALLER: Hey, thank you guys for having me on your show. Im an  infectious diseases epidemiologist with expertise in covid. Ive been  working in this for 19 months. So I wanted to just raise a point here.  Our focus  my work  is in early treatment, which is that early  treatment existed absent of the vaccine that we could have used to close  this thing out. Im saying here openly  Im sharing my view based on  all of the science right now  children are not candidates for these  vaccines, under any circumstance.                                                                                                                                                                                          CALLER: Theyve not been safety tested, the vaccines. They provide no  opportunity for benefit for children, only potential opportunity for  harms  and we are seeing the harms that have emerged and the CDCs  various database and the adverse events, the deaths, this is a very  serious issue. And children have a natural protection that if we bypass  it and we inject into the arm, we could get levels of death occurring in  children the United States similar to what were seeing in the adults  reporting in the CDCs adverse database which only captures 1%.

 And already we have 14,000 deaths. The purpose of this call is this:  When we look at Israeli data today, we see that Israel implemented its  booster program, two shots, August 1. When we plot the graphs, we saw  that the infections were going up steadily. But what is very interesting  and staggering is, if you look at August 1 onwards to now, you see that  infections have exploded.
 In fact, what is showing is that a booster program, the third shot,  not only did not stop the transmission, it exploded the transmission.  And were arguing that the vaccinated persons are carrying such a high  viral load in their mouth, in their oral cavities, and nasopharyngeal  passage theyre contributing to the spread. This is not a pandemic of  the unvaccinated.

 This has been false by the CDC and NIH. This is a pandemic of the  vaccinated. Because when you look at the data out of U.K., most up to  dated data is up to date. We see that the persons who have died infected  with Delta, 70% of the deaths reported by Britain today  today  are  those were double vaccinated. So what the media is saying is a complete  misleading to the public.
 And theres a recent study very seminal out of Ho Chi Minh City,  Vietnam. They had 69 health care workers who were confined to their  facility for two weeks, locked down, and these health care workers were  double vaccinated. What did they find? They find with this lockdown that  the health care workers all transmitted the virus to each other because  they type the virus molecularly, to see. So the spread was within that  facility, but more importantly, the research published in Lancet showed  that the health care workers had a viral load 251 times  251 times   viral load for the Delta.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
CALLER: (laughing) No, no. Im infectious disease epidemiologist.  Okay, the reality is weve always known that you never, ever vaccinate  during an ongoing epidemic or pandemic. Thats a virologists greatest  fear because you drive the variants and mutations. It is vaccination.  You are putting evolutionary selection pressure on the pathogen.
 And it is selecting variants that are highly more infectious, not  lethal, because it does not want to kill the host. It wants to survive.  So its mutating downwards, Mullers ratchet. It will mutate downwards,  highly infectious. And those that are highly infectious, very ease of  transmission will be selected forward.
 And those are the ones that are going to be the new dominant variant.  So, we were doing that. We always had about 12 variants in the  background in India, et cetera. And India vaccinated with the Sinovac,  as an example, and then the Delta spread. It became the dominant variant  for exactly how I just explained.
 And then what theyre realizing now is the Pfizer vaccine that we  have existing right now in the United States, clearly in Israel   because Pfizer vaccine is the Israeli vaccine  it just does not hit the  Delta anymore. The Delta bypasses the antibodies that the vaccine  produces. So you are literally at zero. When you take a vaccine today, 
The Wuhan strain  the Wuhan, the original strain February 2020  was  what Operation Warp Speed built those vaccines on. What we have  existing today, the Delta variant. That Wuhan is long gone, a year now.  It doesnt exist. You are being vaccinated for the vaccine that will  fail. I want you to listen to my words: Will fail. And those doing it,  those in public health, the medical doctors know this.
 There is no vaccine that is confer immunity like naturally acquired  immunity. Those with natural immunity Another thing to show you:  Gazette, et al, just published a paper preprint out of Israel  and why  Israel again? Because Israel was the first out of the box with Pfizer,  has the most complete data, the most population vaccinated today.
 Theyre just published a study that was stunning, and it should turn  this whole vaccine issue on its head now and should stop this garbage by  the CDC and NIH about natural immunity is not a prominent issue and  doesnt really exist. That is bogus, BS.

 you need to understand something.
The Wuhan strain  the Wuhan, the original strain February 2020  was  what Operation Warp Speed built those vaccines on. What we have  existing today, the Delta variant. That Wuhan is long gone, a year now.  It doesnt exist. You are being vaccinated for the vaccine that will  fail. I want you to listen to my words: Will fail. And those doing it,  those in public health, the medical doctors know this.
 There is no vaccine that is confer immunity like naturally acquired  immunity. Those with natural immunity Another thing to show you:  Gazette, et al, just published a paper preprint out of Israel  and why  Israel again? Because Israel was the first out of the box with Pfizer,  has the most complete data, the most population vaccinated today.
 Theyre just published a study that was stunning, and it should turn  this whole vaccine issue on its head now and should stop this garbage by  the CDC and NIH about natural immunity is not a prominent issue and  doesnt really exist. That is bogus, BS.

----------

nonsqtr (09-18-2021)

----------


## Freewill

I wish it were easy.  So much BS coming from every direction.  We know we can't trust the government and I especially won't blame blacks for not trusting the government after Tuskegee.

But can we trust the anti-vax side which a lot are not scientists or epidemiologists or infection disease specialist.

I've decided not to get the booster shot.  I am also opt out of the yearly flu shot.  After all the flu apparently took a vacation last year.

One thing for sure, we are all being infected with BS.

----------


## nonsqtr

> I thought you were ignoring me?
> 
> 
> 
> I think you may be confusing science as an idea with the scientific method. Even the scientific method isn't ironclad, but I'll quote a bit of Wikipedia's article on it:
> **
> The overall process involves making conjectures (hypotheses), deriving predictions from them as logical consequences, and then carrying out experiments based on those predictions to determine whether the original conjecture was correct.[4] There are difficulties in a formulaic statement of method, however. Though the scientific method is often presented as a fixed sequence of steps, these actions are better considered as general principles.[8] Not all steps take place in every scientific inquiry (nor to the same degree), and they are not always done in the same order. 
> **
> Source:
> ...


You really are an arrogant little prick.

Or the other word.

GO AWAY.

----------


## phoenyx

> You really are an [insult removed]
> 
> Or the other word.
> 
> GO AWAY.


This from the guy who said he'd be ignoring me. Apparently you can't even follow your -own- advice :-p.

----------


## phoenyx

> CALLER: Hey, thank you guys for having me on your show. I’m an  infectious diseases epidemiologist with expertise in covid. I’ve been  working in this for 19 months. So I wanted to just raise a point here.  Our focus — my work — is in early treatment, which is that early  treatment existed absent of the vaccine that we could have used to close  this thing out. I’m saying here openly — I’m sharing my view based on  all of the science right now — children are not candidates for these  vaccines, under any circumstance.                                                                                                                                                                                          CALLER: They’ve not been safety tested, the vaccines. They provide no  opportunity for benefit for children, only potential opportunity for  harms — and we are seeing the harms that have emerged and the CDC’s  various database and the adverse events, the deaths, this is a very  serious issue. And children have a natural protection that if we bypass  it and we inject into the arm, we could get levels of death occurring in  children the United States similar to what we’re seeing in the adults  reporting in the CDC’s adverse database which only captures 1%.
> 
>  And already we have 14,000 deaths. The purpose of this call is this:  When we look at Israeli data today, we see that Israel implemented its  booster program, two shots, August 1. When we plot the graphs, we saw  that the infections were going up steadily. But what is very interesting  and staggering is, if you look at August 1 onwards to now, you see that  infections have exploded.
>  In fact, what is showing is that a booster program, the third shot,  not only did not stop the transmission, it exploded the transmission.  And we’re arguing that the vaccinated persons are carrying such a high  viral load in their mouth, in their oral cavities, and nasopharyngeal  passage they’re contributing to the spread. This is not a pandemic of  the unvaccinated.
> 
>  This has been false by the CDC and NIH. This is a pandemic of the  vaccinated. Because when you look at the data out of U.K., most up to  dated data is up to date. We see that the persons who have died infected  with Delta, 70% of the deaths reported by Britain today — today — are  those were double vaccinated. So what the media is saying is a complete  misleading to the public.
>  And there’s a recent study very seminal out of Ho Chi Minh City,  Vietnam. They had 69 health care workers who were confined to their  facility for two weeks, locked down, and these health care workers were  double vaccinated. What did they find? They find with this lockdown that  the health care workers all transmitted the virus to each other because  they type the virus molecularly, to see. So the spread was within that  facility, but more importantly, the research published in Lancet showed  that the health care workers had a viral load 251 times — 251 times —  viral load for the Delta.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
> CALLER: (laughing) No, no. I’m infectious disease epidemiologist.  Okay, the reality is we’ve always known that you never, ever vaccinate  during an ongoing epidemic or pandemic. That’s a virologist’s greatest  fear because you drive the variants and mutations. It is vaccination.  You are putting evolutionary selection pressure on the pathogen.
>  And it is selecting variants that are highly more infectious, not  lethal, because it does not want to kill the host. It wants to survive.  So it’s mutating downwards, Muller’s ratchet. It will mutate downwards,  highly infectious. And those that are highly infectious, very ease of  transmission will be selected forward.
> ...


Interesting- where did you get this from?

----------


## nonsqtr

> CALLER: Hey, thank you guys for having me on your show. I’m an  infectious diseases epidemiologist with expertise in covid. I’ve been  working in this for 19 months. So I wanted to just raise a point here.  Our focus — my work — is in early treatment, which is that early  treatment existed absent of the vaccine that we could have used to close  this thing out. I’m saying here openly — I’m sharing my view based on  all of the science right now — children are not candidates for these  vaccines, under any circumstance.                                                                                                                                                                                          CALLER: They’ve not been safety tested, the vaccines. They provide no  opportunity for benefit for children, only potential opportunity for  harms — and we are seeing the harms that have emerged and the CDC’s  various database and the adverse events, the deaths, this is a very  serious issue. And children have a natural protection that if we bypass  it and we inject into the arm, we could get levels of death occurring in  children the United States similar to what we’re seeing in the adults  reporting in the CDC’s adverse database which only captures 1%.
> 
>  And already we have 14,000 deaths. The purpose of this call is this:  When we look at Israeli data today, we see that Israel implemented its  booster program, two shots, August 1. When we plot the graphs, we saw  that the infections were going up steadily. But what is very interesting  and staggering is, if you look at August 1 onwards to now, you see that  infections have exploded.
>  In fact, what is showing is that a booster program, the third shot,  not only did not stop the transmission, it exploded the transmission.  And we’re arguing that the vaccinated persons are carrying such a high  viral load in their mouth, in their oral cavities, and nasopharyngeal  passage they’re contributing to the spread. This is not a pandemic of  the unvaccinated.
> 
>  This has been false by the CDC and NIH. This is a pandemic of the  vaccinated. Because when you look at the data out of U.K., most up to  dated data is up to date. We see that the persons who have died infected  with Delta, 70% of the deaths reported by Britain today — today — are  those were double vaccinated. So what the media is saying is a complete  misleading to the public.
>  And there’s a recent study very seminal out of Ho Chi Minh City,  Vietnam. They had 69 health care workers who were confined to their  facility for two weeks, locked down, and these health care workers were  double vaccinated. What did they find? They find with this lockdown that  the health care workers all transmitted the virus to each other because  they type the virus molecularly, to see. So the spread was within that  facility, but more importantly, the research published in Lancet showed  that the health care workers had a viral load 251 times — 251 times —  viral load for the Delta.                                                                                                                                                                                                 
> CALLER: (laughing) No, no. I’m infectious disease epidemiologist.  Okay, the reality is we’ve always known that you never, ever vaccinate  during an ongoing epidemic or pandemic. That’s a virologist’s greatest  fear because you drive the variants and mutations. It is vaccination.  You are putting evolutionary selection pressure on the pathogen.
>  And it is selecting variants that are highly more infectious, not  lethal, because it does not want to kill the host. It wants to survive.  So it’s mutating downwards, Muller’s ratchet. It will mutate downwards,  highly infectious. And those that are highly infectious, very ease of  transmission will be selected forward.
> ...


You're a little late to the party, we've already been over all this. Welcome anyway, though.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> This from the guy who said he'd be ignoring me. Apparently you can't even follow your -own- advice :-p.


Can't blame  @nonsqtr. I had you on ignore too. But your posts are veritable train wrecks in human understanding and it's like ...ya gotta look as you go by .

----------


## OldSchool

good thread

----------

QuaseMarco (09-18-2021)

----------


## flack

I listened to it on the Clay Travis and Buck Saxton show. Then went out to thier website to get the transcript. He was not the only doctor to call and say pretty much the same thing.

Here   

Epidemiologist Calls CB with Whirlwind of Information

----------

nonsqtr (09-18-2021)

----------


## flack

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New Cases : Goats and Soda : NPR

----------

phoenyx (09-18-2021)

----------


## East of the Beast

Hey, I'm a Chinese astronaut.The Woofloo came from an alien who stowed away on the IST......It was sexually transmitted to us by the alien....He love us long time.

----------

OldSchool (09-18-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Can't blame  @nonsqtr. I had you on ignore too. But your posts are veritable train wrecks in human understanding and it's like ...ya gotta look as you go by .


We clearly have different ideas as to the nature of my posts. But regardless of what metaphor we use for what they look like, I have no problem with people -looking-, it's the constant invective that gets tiring.

----------


## phoenyx

> Hey, I'm a Chinese astronaut.The Woofloo came from an alien who stowed away on the IST......It was sexually transmitted to us by the alien....He love us long time.


Very funny :-p.

----------

East of the Beast (09-18-2021)

----------


## nonsqtr

> I wish it were easy.  So much BS coming from every direction.  We know we can't trust the government and I especially won't blame blacks for not trusting the government after Tuskegee.
> 
> But can we trust the anti-vax side which a lot are not scientists or epidemiologists or infection disease specialist.
> 
> I've decided not to get the booster shot.  I am also opt out of the yearly flu shot.  After all the flu apparently took a vacation last year.
> 
> One thing for sure, we are all being infected with BS.


Follow the SCIENCE. Itself. 

Not what charlatans of all kinds TELL you is the science, the ACTUAL science.

Read the journal articles yourself. I've posted some wonderful starting points right here in this thread.

The person in flack's post basically agrees with every word I said. Scientists who look at this objectively will eventually arrive at the same conclusion, the method works and it works every time.

Yes, the charlatans want to fill your head with BS. Don't listen to them. I posted a study in Quase's thread, it's only three months old, it's a complete summary of every ivermectin study done since 2019. If you understand the DIFFERENCE between the mechanism of action of ivermectin on the Covid virus, and the mechanism of action of the vaccine, it tells us something important. I'm not talking about S proteins, I'm talking about the way it elicits the immune response.

The science around this is NOT simple stuff. You're not going to get the answers by reading a book, or even an excellent research summary. But if you read Lehninger's Biochemistry cover to cover, you might "see" a little more than others do, when the time comes.

The data is out there now. The evidence doesn't lie. The STUDIES lie sometimes, and really it's not even that they lie, it's that they use bad methodology (however innocently), and therefore the conclusions are based on erroneous assumptions. For instance the Lopez-Medina study which is supposed to be double blind, isn't. And it's basically the only one (out of like 50) that says ivermectin doesn't work, so naturally that's the one the media always talks about and they never talk about the rest.

And now it is clear to the public, to anyone who wants to look, that our very own FDA is using the Lopez-Medina study to deny the effectiveness of ivermectin.

At the same time they:re mandating the use of vaccines we already know to be ineffective, based on the Israeli evidence and others.

Tell ya what - Joe Biden, President or not, is NOT A DOCTOR, and therefore it is actually ILLEGAL for him to be mandating prescription medicines. No one ever said politicians were rocket scientists. They're the LAST people who are going to make sense of the science. Those of us who've been in the field for 30 years, are the first, but they don't listen to us, they listen to the public policy wonks instead, and most of THEM are pharmaceutical industry lobbyists.

The only answer I have is protect YOURSELF. Don't be stupid about it though. Drugs like ivermectin and hydroxy chloroquine have some very serious side effects, you should consult with a physician, an actual MD, if you're planning on taking them.

----------


## nonsqtr

> We clearly have different ideas as to the nature of my posts. But regardless of what metaphor we use for what they look like, I have no problem with people -looking-, it's the constant invective that gets tiring.


No, it's the constant stream of BULLSHIT from whacko conspiracy theorists that gets FUCKING ANNOYING, especially when the dumb fucking assholes start pretending to be scientists.  :Mad: 

The BULLSHIT from these clowns has to be stomped on at every opportunity.

Sorry if you don't like it. (Not).

Tell ya what - if you don't want to be ridiculed in public, then STOP WITH THE BULLSHIT, miss viruses-dont-exist-oh-but-5G-causes-Covid.  :Geez:

----------


## phoenyx

> No, it's the constant stream of [insult removed and snip]


See, this is why I was happier when you were ignoring me. I like responding to you when you're talking to others, but when you talk to me, it's generally so filled with invective that it's not worth the trouble.

----------


## phoenyx

> Follow the SCIENCE. Itself. 
> 
> Not what charlatans of all kinds TELL you is the science, the ACTUAL science.


You make it sound so easy- as if using the caps lock button on certain words would make everything so much clearer. The truth is, it's not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. I also think that having people insulting people they disagree with and doing the textual equivalent of yelling doesn't help. What we need is to focus on the evidence, instead of insulting each other.

----------


## nonsqtr

> I listened to it on the Clay Travis and Buck Saxton show. Then went out to there website to get the transcript. He was not the only doctor to call and say pretty much the same thing.
> 
> Here   
> 
> Epidemiologist Calls CB with Whirlwind of Information


Yeah. I find it very sad that the collection of public data in this country is so highly politicized as to be almost worthless.

Look, this Covid stuff really IS at the very forefront of modern science. The virus leaves polynucleated cells in the lungs, and the 'how" around polynucleation is one of the hot topics in science right now.

For instance - slime molds have a multinucleate stage, it's called a plasmodium. Skeletal muscle cells are multinucleated, and daughter-stem cells in bone marrow (osteoclasts) multinucleate themselves during resorption. The whole issue if membrane fusion is HUGE. Lytic viruses like EB destroy the cytoskeleton and therefore cell fusion becomes impossible, so when the cell finally bursts thousands of viruses empty into the extracellular space, where they can be rather easily attacked by the immune system. However viruses that cause fusion continue to hide inside the host. Normally membrane fusion is very carefully controlled, using the cytoskeleton which acts like a "grid" for intracellular calcium. However the stability of the skeletal structure depends on the liquidity of the membrane proteins to which is attached, so factors like cholesterol (membrane liquidity) come into play.

The thing is, a single point mutation in a coronavirus (or any other virus) can completely change the way it operates, and the way it hides within the cell. Covid, for example, has a secondary binding site in the S1 stem, it's a short segment containing a serine that's different in the Delta variant. 

To create an effective vaccine, they have to know what to target. If the purpose of the vaccine is to elicit an immune response, then the target has to be an antigen. However ivermectin which is NOT a vaccine, works in a completely different way, and doesn't require the artificial stimulation of an immune response.

Right now we have HUNDREDS of fully sequenced variants of Covid, something like 600 of them. Portions of the genome are highly conserved, other portions aren't. I posted a reference that details exactly WHICH sequences should be targeted and why. The pHarmas won't do it if they can't make money off it, however a smaller independent pHarma could probably sustain itself that way.

----------

OldSchool (09-18-2021)

----------


## QuaseMarco

> Same, for the most part. However, I've found that I do trust -some- doctors to some extent. One I'm finding particularly good these days is Dr. Sam Bailey, from New Zealand. She's started to work on a documentary series for the book she's become a part of, Virus Mania, which I just happened to buy the kindle edition of a few minutes ago (looking good). Here's her video on this work:


Yes I've seen her speak...... I also trust Dr Stella Emmanuel (of the Frontline Doctors).
And my personal Doctor currently has been trustworthy.... but I'd like to see exactly where he is on the Covid and the Vaccine.....
I'll be seeing him for my semi-annual check-up this November. Six months ago I gave him and ear full  :Smiley ROFLMAO: and he did not give me any push back..................I'm very curious to see if he has changed.

 And this go around I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR HIM...... about Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine..... and if he would prescribe them to me .......

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phoenyx (09-18-2021)

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## flack

Pfizer Vaccine Killing More People Than It Saves? Vaccines Causing Variants? - FDA Questions...

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phoenyx (09-18-2021)

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## flack

_Four experts did analyses using completely different  Non-U.S. data sources, and all of them came up with approximately the  same number of excess vaccine-related deaths, about 411 deaths per  million doses. That translates into 150,000 people have died. The next  slide would be slide number 11—the nursing home. Now the real numbers  confirm that we kill more than we saved. And I would love everyone to  look at the Israel Ministry of health data on the 90 plus-year-olds  where we went from a 94.4% vaccinated group to 82.9% vaccinated in the  last four months. In the most optimistic scenario, it means that 50% of  the vaccinated people died, and 0% of unvaccinated people died. Unless  you can explain that to the American public. You cannot approve the  boosters” – Steve Kirsch, Executive Director of COVID-19 Early Treatment  Fund_

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QuaseMarco (09-19-2021)

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## flack

_Four experts did analyses using completely different  Non-U.S. data sources, and all of them came up with approximately the  same number of excess vaccine-related deaths, about 411 deaths per  million doses. That translates into 150,000 people have died. The next  slide would be slide number 11the nursing home. Now the real numbers  confirm that we kill more than we saved. And I would love everyone to  look at the Israel Ministry of health data on the 90 plus-year-olds  where we went from a 94.4% vaccinated group to 82.9% vaccinated in the  last four months. In the most optimistic scenario, it means that 50% of  the vaccinated people died, and 0% of unvaccinated people died. Unless  you can explain that to the American public. You cannot approve the  boosters  Steve Kirsch, Executive Director of COVID-19 Early Treatment  Fund_

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> _Four experts did analyses using completely different  Non-U.S. data sources, and all of them came up with approximately the  same number of excess vaccine-related deaths, about 411 deaths per  million doses. That translates into 150,000 people have died. The next  slide would be slide number 11—the nursing home. Now the real numbers  confirm that we kill more than we saved. And I would love everyone to  look at the Israel Ministry of health data on the 90 plus-year-olds  where we went from a 94.4% vaccinated group to 82.9% vaccinated in the  last four months. In the most optimistic scenario, it means that 50% of  the vaccinated people died, and 0% of unvaccinated people died. Unless  you can explain that to the American public. You cannot approve the  boosters” – Steve Kirsch, Executive Director of COVID-19 Early Treatment  Fund_


That could be a damning indictment against the vaccines.  If only I hadn't seen time and time again here people confusing coincidence and correlation with causation. If the antivax community is all making the same mistake, I cannot just accept as true the 411 per million number.

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## Authentic

> If you study "infection", you will eventually realize, that 100% of it has to do with protein folding.
> 
> The simplest infectious agents are called prions. They are single proteins, nothing more.
> 
> It's even more specific than that - only a new "version" ("configuration") of the protein may be infectious, depending on the way it folds.
> 
> With the prion protein, the presence of misfolded proteins CAUSES misfolding in the others, which is what causes the infection.
> 
> With prions there is no virus, no rna or dna, just a tiny little piece of protein. Most proteins, if they have multiple structural forms, will flex between the forms, but not prions. Once a prion is misfolded it stays that way. 
> ...


Isn't that the same as a toxin?

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## Authentic

> Chinese?


You said that they not stupid enough to question the existence of viruses.

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## phoenyx

> If you study "infection", you will eventually realize, that 100% of it has to do with protein folding.
> 
> The simplest infectious agents are called prions. They are single proteins, nothing more.
> 
> It's even more specific than that - only a new "version" ("configuration") of the protein may be infectious, depending on the way it folds.
> 
> With the prion protein, the presence of misfolded proteins CAUSES misfolding in the others, which is what causes the infection.
> 
> With prions there is no virus, no rna or dna, just a tiny little piece of protein. Most proteins, if they have multiple structural forms, will flex between the forms, but not prions. Once a prion is misfolded it stays that way. 
> ...


For those in the audience who'd like to know a bit of interesting information regarding prions, taken from a book called Virus Mania:
**
*Chapter 5


BSE: The Epidemic that Never Was

“The assumption that BSE is an epidemic caused by an infectious agent called a prion in meat and bone meal has not been proven. To prove this, at least one controlled feed experiment with cattle herds would be necessary. But this has not been done. A feasible alternative hypothesis is that the BSE epidemic in England was caused by a combination of factors: a genetic defect in the gene-pool of a few cattle herds, which was bred into frequency in pursuit of the best-possible efficiency in milk production, poisoning from insecticides and heavy metals, copper deficiency and/or autoimmune reactions.”826*

Roland Scholz, Professor of Biochemistry and Cellular Biology

Sievert Lorenzen, Professor of Zoology and author of the book Phantom BSE Danger, 2005
**
Source:
Engelbrecht, Torsten; Köhnlein, Claus; Bailey, Samantha; Scoglio, Stefano. Virus Mania (p. 179). Books on Demand. Kindle Edition.

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## flack

OPINION
*Published*  10 hours ago

*Tucker Carlson: This is proof Biden and his lackeys in the media are lying about COVID* *Democrats aren't following the science when it comes to vaccine booster shots* 

          By         Tucker Carlson  | Fox News

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## phoenyx

> OPINION
> *Published*  10 hours ago
> 
> *Tucker Carlson: This is proof Biden and his lackeys in the media are lying about COVID*
> 
> *Democrats aren't following the science when it comes to vaccine booster shots*
> 
> 
> 
>           By         Tucker Carlson  | Fox News


A very good piece. I think quoting a bit of it is in order:
**
*Last month, for those of you keeping track, the* *Biden administration** announced a plan to give additional shots of* *COVID** vaccine — so-called boosters — to millions of Americans. Didn’t see that coming. But the administration never explained why it was necessary or scientifically justifiable. They never bothered. Instead, with characteristic aggression, they simply decreed it was going to happen. The new shots would go out, they informed us, no later than this week, the week of September 20, which is right now. That was the deadline. 
*
The weird thing is, it turned out, no one had told the scientists about this. Two leading vaccine experts at the FDA promptly resigned. Several more announced they were thinking of quitting. Then Biden's "COVID czar," a former Facebook board member with no medical background called Jeff Zients, assured the country "no problem, none of this is cause for alarm." People resigning in protest, no big deal. 
The decision to give extra COVID shots, Zeints said, was "made by and announced by the nation's leading public health officials."

Really? Which leading public health officials exactly? Well, Zients didn't tell us. It’s clear something was going on here. Then last week, the entire lie unraveled completely. A panel of the FDA's vaccine experts — actual "leading public health officials" — blew up the whole idea in a single afternoon. By a vote of 16 to 2 – not close at all — they emphatically rejected Biden’s plan for more shots. For a moment, this seemed like a rare win for science, and for public safety. That decision said a former FDA official, quote, "put the FDA back in the driver’s seat" and "maintained the FDA's scientific independence" from politicians. 

But just for a minute. Because in Joe Biden’s America, there is no independence from politicians. Shortly after midnight on Thursday, the college professor who Biden appointed to run the CDC, Rochelle Wolensky, simply overruled the FDA panel. She didn't cite any scientific basis for her overruling actual scientists. She just did it. [snip]
**

Full article:
Tucker Carlson: This is proof Biden and his lackeys in the media are lying about COVID | Fox News

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