# Politics and News > UK, Canada, Oz, NZ >  A French boat has been spotted ramming a British vessel.

## Neo

Click on the video on link.
https://news.sky.com/story/french-bo...aters-12298301


Its hotting up.

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Big Dummy (05-06-2021),darroll (05-06-2021),dinosaur (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021),MrMike (05-07-2021),Rutabaga (05-06-2021)

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## Swedgin

Bleh...Frenchmen.

They have always been ornery!

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Big Dummy (05-06-2021),Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),dinosaur (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021)

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## Neo

> Bleh...Frenchmen.
> 
> They have always been ornery!


*News Flash*
a French warship has been dispatched to the area!

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dinosaur (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

1. Only the French would "restage the Battle of Trafalgar", bearing in mind it was an ignominious military defeat for them.  The problem they have is to find a french naval victory i n the last 600 years, needle in a haystack .....

2. The two french boats are not 'warships', they are what you Yank would  call Patrol Boats, they are 100 tonnes and 400 tonnes displacement with crews of 12 and one 20mm cannon and two machine guns.  The two British ships are Offshore Patrol Vessels, 2000 and 1677 tonnes displacement, crews of 34, two 30mm cannon, two machine guns and two Vulcan made Miniguns . Talk about bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Plus ofc being french military they are not permitted to enter British  Territorial waters (ie the 12 mile limit) so they can turn up but have to watch the action sitting on the horizon, far away in the mist.....

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Big Dummy (05-06-2021),Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021),Rutabaga (05-06-2021)

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## dinosaur

Excellent!  More artificial reefs = more fish!  Bad for trawlin' and nets though!   :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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darroll (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021)

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## Oceander

> *News Flash*
> a French warship has been dispatched to the area!



Here it comes!

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Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),darroll (05-06-2021),Hillofbeans (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021)

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## Conservative Libertarian

> Click on the video on link.
> https://news.sky.com/story/french-bo...aters-12298301
> 
> 
> Its hotting up.


The link was to Sky News but it showed nothing related to the story. It only showed Page Not Found.

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Rutabaga (05-06-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

> The link was to Sky News but it showed nothing related to the story. It only showed Page Not Found.



Interesting, Sky has removed the story....try this one



Royal Navy gunships patrol sea off Jersey as 100 French fishing boats threaten to blockade harbour | Daily Mail Online

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Big Dummy (05-06-2021),Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),Lone Gunman (05-06-2021),Neo (05-06-2021),Oceander (05-06-2021)

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## Hermannsdenkmal

Why did we save France again? Any one know?

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## Lone Gunman

'ramming?'

are the french running triremes as warships, now?  :Wtf20:

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## Oceander

> Interesting, Sky has removed the story....try this one
> 
> 
> 
> Royal Navy gunships patrol sea off Jersey as 100 French fishing boats threaten to blockade harbour | Daily Mail Online



Watched the video, and I'm not sure if the word "ramming" really captures the essence of the action.  More like nudging or bumping.  I agree that it was an aggressive move - boats should not be trying to collide with other boats, but I'm not sure if "ramming" was really what the Frenchman accomplished there.

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Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

The French ran away, again, as usual.....



Victoire! Two Royal Navy ships send French fishing flotilla scurrying back home | Daily Mail Online

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Oceander (05-06-2021)

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## Swedgin

> Why did we save France again? Any one know?


Because they helped us become a nation?

Because, despite all  of our differences, they are a friend and ally?

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Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),Rutabaga (05-06-2021)

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## Big Dummy

> Because they helped us become a nation?
> 
> Because, despite all  of our differences, they are a friend and ally?


Yeah, that’s why George Washington ambushed and took the French Emissary’s scalp.

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## Swedgin

> Yeah, thats why George Washington ambushed and took the French Emissarys scalp.


Different War.....

To be 100% honest, based on my understanding of Military History:  There would have been NO United States, if the French Navy had not managed to blockade Cornwallis' troops.

At the very least, the Revolutionary War would have continued, perhaps for years, or decades.

The sequence of events that allowed Washington to pin the British down at Yorktown are not very common in war....

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Big Dummy (05-06-2021),Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021),Rutabaga (05-06-2021)

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## Gator Monroe

Fishing business will be the realm of Big Fish ( Not smaller operations ) in near future

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## ruthless terrier

> There would have been NO United States, if the French Navy had not managed to blockade Cornwallis' troops.



now if only the French would have helped the Confederates in the Civil War.

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darroll (05-06-2021)

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## Gator Monroe

> now if only the French would have helped the Confederates in the Civil War.


Screw that I'm thinkin South African Scientists who developed a Time Machine in 1981 and transported 2 cases of AK 47 and 5 pallets of Ammo & Magazines to The Confederacy in 1862

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ruthless terrier (05-06-2021),Swedgin (05-06-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

> Because they helped us become a nation?
> 
> Because, despite all  of our differences, they are a friend and ally?



 :Smiley ROFLMAO: 




you need to stop smoking that stuff. The French are no more anyones  friends  than Herr Schiucklegruber was.

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## Swedgin

> now if only the French would have helped the Confederates in the Civil War.


France was a mess at that point and time.

And, Europe had a glut of Cotton, immediately prior to the Civil War, so, they really had no reason to get involved.

(Again, though...we should give credit to the British, as they could have mucked the whole deal up, out of spite and vengence.)

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Conservative Libertarian (05-06-2021)

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## Swedgin

> you need to stop smoking that stuff. The French are no more anyones  friends  than Herr Schiucklegruber was.



They have been better friends to the US, than vice-versa.

Just like Britain.

One of the things that DOES get at me, as an American, is just how poor WE have been as "allies."

America goes to war, and, Great Britain is typically at our side.

And yet...during the 20th Century, the United States left ALL our European allies "out to dry," not once, but TWICE.

Then we get pissy because the world doesn't snap to, when we need help.

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## Rutabaga

sacrebleu!!! :Cool20:

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## Rutabaga

its a couple of little fishing boats banging into each other...  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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darroll (05-06-2021)

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## ruthless terrier

> Screw that I'm thinkin South African Scientists who developed a Time Machine in 1981 and transported 2 cases of AK 47 and 5 pallets of Ammo & Magazines to The Confederacy in 1862



and few thousand mortars and surface to surface missiles .. just to soften up the battlegrounds thumb.gif

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> Why did we save France again? Any one know?


For the baguettes??

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Hermannsdenkmal (05-06-2021)

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## darroll

The French did not need us, they had the wall.

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## Hermannsdenkmal

> They have been better friends to the US, than vice-versa.
> 
> Just like Britain.
> 
> One of the things that DOES get at me, as an American, is just how poor WE have been as "allies."
> 
> America goes to war, and, Great Britain is typically at our side.
> 
> *And yet...during the 20th Century, the United States left ALL our European allies "out to dry," not once, but TWICE.*
> ...


Bold- you realize the US fought in Europe's wars, yes?

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## Swedgin

> Bold- you realize the US fought in Europe's wars, yes?


Yes.

Well after years of our allies fighting, and getting slaughtered.

Had America entered EITHER WW I or WW II earlier, millions of lives may have been saved.

We literally left Great Britain all ALONE to face the full might of the NAZI's (Until they so foolishly turned to take on the Soviets....)

Sure, we "helped" and,  most likely, our entry into both wars was the deciding factor.

But, our allies suffered and died, while we drug our feet.

As such, I just think it a bit arrogant (and perhaps, hypocritical) of AMERICA to always expect friends and allies to jump up and join us every time we go to war.

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## UKSmartypants

> Yes.
> 
> Well after years of our allies fighting, and getting slaughtered.
> 
> Had America entered EITHER WW I or WW II earlier, millions of lives may have been saved.
> 
> We literally left Great Britain all ALONE to face the full might of the NAZI's (Until they so foolishly turned to take on the Soviets....)
> 
> Sure, we "helped" and,  most likely, our entry into both wars was the deciding factor.
> ...


Yes, but even as a child, you learn very early on in life that it pays to be mates with the biggest kid in the playground.


Yes USA was slow off the mark in  the Great International Misunderstanding of 1914-1918, and the Replay 1939-1945, but the issue each time was the American people in both cases were isolationist, and it took the president a while to convince them it was in the USA's interests to support the British and help them win.   In the latter case Pearl harbour had to be sacrificed  to outrage the people.

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Neo (05-07-2021)

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## Neo

> Yes, but even as a child, you learn very early on in life that it pays to be mates with the biggest kid in the playground.
> 
> 
> Yes USA was slow off the mark in  the Great International Misunderstanding of 1914-1918, and the Replay 1939-1945, but the issue each time was the American people in both cases were isolationist, and it took the president a while to convince them it was in the USA's interests to support the British and help them win.   In the latter case Pearl harbour had to be sacrificed  to outrage the people.



One mustnt forget the enormous burden the U.K. had fighting wars on all fronts during WW2, the financial cost made Britain bankrupt.

Churchill courted the United States like a schoolboy with his first girlfriend into joining the war, but it took Japan to flatten Pearl Harbour.

When America joined the war victory was assured, the Lend Lease agreement actually reduced Britain into the poor man of Europe because we had no gold reserves left, America had everything. The countries who were invaded by Germany still had Gold reserves around the world Britain had nothing.

Even the British companies in America were sold off by auction as part of the lend lease agreement.

Margaret Thatcher in the 80s excitedly announced We have paid off the finances of the War agreements to the United States by a final payment of £30billion.

Most Americans think of our little island as a of no consequence, our American cousins did not allow our British scientists to know the inner workings of setting a nuclear bomb off, nor the rocket science to deliver it. Because of this we had to build our own Nukes, also our own missile system (blue streak) which cost the U.K. billions whilst we were still recovering from the bankruptcy of war.

This must seem a trifle bad sportsman to bring all of this up, but! The American government impoverished us and what you see now is the result.  

God Bless America.

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Oceander (05-07-2021)

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## Oceander

> One mustn’t forget the enormous burden the U.K. had fighting wars on all fronts during WW2, the financial cost made Britain bankrupt.
> 
> Churchill courted the United States like a schoolboy with his first girlfriend into joining the war, but it took Japan to flatten Pearl Harbour.
> 
> When America joined the war victory was assured, the “Lend Lease” agreement actually reduced Britain into the poor man of Europe because we had no gold reserves left, America had everything. The countries who were invaded by Germany still had Gold reserves around the world…… Britain had nothing.
> 
> Even the British companies in America were sold off by auction as part of the lend lease agreement.
> 
> Margaret Thatcher in the 80s excitedly announced “We have paid off the finances of the War agreements to the United States by a final payment of £30billion.
> ...


The U.S., for whatever reason (it escapes me), appears to have intentionally used the Lend-Lease program as a way of beggaring the U.K.

It's a sad fact.  Perhaps Roosevelt felt that he wanted to have all of Europe under his thumb after the war, and figured that most of Continental Europe would be easy enough to control after having been wiped out by the war itself, but that the U.K. needed that extra little bit of leverage because, unlike the Continent, it was never invaded by the Nazis/Axis powers, and was never bombed into oblivion.

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Neo (05-07-2021)

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## Neo

> The U.S., for whatever reason (it escapes me), appears to have intentionally used the Lend-Lease program as a way of beggaring the U.K.
> 
> It's a sad fact.  Perhaps Roosevelt felt that he wanted to have all of Europe under his thumb after the war, and figured that most of Continental Europe would be easy enough to control after having been wiped out by the war itself, but that the U.K. needed that extra little bit of leverage because, unlike the Continent, it was never invaded by the Nazis/Axis powers, and was never bombed into oblivion.



The population of America was 133.4million in 1941, whereas the population of the U.K. was 41millions, the taxation on the working population today is 23% of weekly wages.


Random tax/NI amount of £43,000
Income tax (PAYE) is £6,086 (*£507* per month) - *14%* of salaryNational Insurance (N.I) is £4,011 (*£334*per month) - *9%* of salaryTotal taxes are *£10,097* (*£841* per month) - *23%* of salaryYou are a *basic rate* tax payer.

But the U.K. is still hit by local taxation.

For water, fire, waste management, local government we pay a community charge, in my area its £147 per month, for luxuries we pay a VAT payment on every item, except food and clothing, everything else I has a tax percentage of the item of 20%

Its a wonder how the British people clawed itself out of the last century.

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MrMike (05-07-2021),Oceander (05-07-2021)

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## MrMike

*Next up:* Truffle Wars

 :Geez:

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## MrMike

> Click on the video on link.
> https://news.sky.com/story/french-bo...aters-12298301
> 
> 
> Its hotting up.


btw... SKY pulled the video (it's not longer accessible at least by me.  said page does not exist).

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## Neo

> btw... SKY pulled the video (it's not longer accessible at least by me.  said page does not exist).


It’s ok Mike, Uksmartypants put up another link, try that one.

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## MrMike

> It’s ok Mike, Uksmartypants put up another link, try that one.


Cool!  I wanted to see it!  This will end up as an interesting episode in UK-French history.

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## Neo

> Cool!  I wanted to see it!  This will end up as an interesting episode in UK-French history.


here is the link UKsmartypants posted 
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-harbour.html



Mike….you’ve lived here, you know what is going to happen, us Brits will pay these little frog bastards off, but! In the long run we have them and the rest of the EU fishermen over a barrel and each country will be put inside the barrel (navy shag) 

In a few short years we won’t have to give our fishing waters to the EU.  We will to be sure…”fuck them off”

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## Hermannsdenkmal

> Yes.
> 
> Well after years of our allies fighting, and getting slaughtered.


That was their choice, and these wars occurred before the current UN coalitions existed. Frankly, it was better back then, when countries weren't obliged to feed their soldiers into wars that were started by other nations. Case in point- the UK and Australia were forced or coerced into sending soldiers to fight in Iraq, when that war had nothing to do with Britain. 




> Had America entered EITHER WW I or WW II earlier, millions of lives may have been saved.


Ha. Had the USA not entered WW!, millions of lives would have been saved. The inaptly named Spanish Flu originated in the United States, and spread throughout Europe so easily BECAUSE there was a war going on that required the mass movement of people and cargo. The Spanish Flu killed more human beings than the actual war did. 




> We literally left Great Britain all ALONE to face the full might of the NAZI's (Until they so foolishly turned to take on the Soviets....)


Wow. No part of this statement is correct whatever. You think we entered WW2 because Hitler invaded the USSR? And Britain decided to declare war on Germany, not the other way around. The Germans offered the UK a peace deal, which would have resulted in an agreement to let Germany eradicate Communism in Europe. Britain turned them down, and instead decided to play footsies under the table with Stalin, which signaled to the Germans that an unannounced alliance was being made between the UK and communist Russia. 



> Sure, we "helped" and,  most likely, our entry into both wars was the deciding factor.


Helped doesn't need to be in quotation marks. Without the United States supplying money and materials to Great Britain and Russia, along with our US Armed Forces fighting, the war wouldn't have ended in May, 1945, and allied victory wouldn't have been a sure thing. You forget or simply don't know that the UK in particular was kept supplied by the US' manufacturing industry, which fell apart only several decades later. 




> But, our allies suffered and died, while we drug our feet.


That's their fault for declaring war on Germany. Not ours.




> As such, I just think it a bit arrogant (and perhaps, hypocritical) of AMERICA to always expect friends and allies to jump up and join us every time we go to war.


Of course it is. What you're forgetting is the fact that the PEOPLE of America and Britain haven't supported any of the wars mentioned in this discussion! It was the LEADERSHIP of the US and UK that wanted war, not the actual citizens, and that goes all the way back to when GB entered the first world war. Without the endless propaganda of intelligence agencies creating fake news (Saddam has nuclear capabilitites for example) the good citizens of Europe and the USA would likely never support the garbage wars of the elites. Because that's who benefits from every war, the elite warmongers who start rattling their sabers when their profits aren't increasing fast enough.

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## UKSmartypants

> That was their choice, and these wars occurred before the current UN coalitions existed. Frankly, it was better back then, when *countries weren't obliged to feed their soldiers into wars that were started by other nations*. Case in point- the UK and Australia were forced or coerced into sending soldiers to fight in Iraq, when that war had nothing to do with Britain.


absolutely incorrect. The trigger to hostilities in 1914 were a set of interlocking treaties between various countries, known as the Mutual Defense Alliances, that obliged them to come to each others defence - Germany was obliged to support Austria. Russia was obliged to defend Serbia. France  was obliged to help Russia, the UK obliged to help France.  The moment Philip Princip fired his gun, WW1 was inevitable and unstoppable.





> Ha. Had the USA not entered WW!, millions of lives would have been saved. The inaptly named Spanish Flu originated in the United States, and spread throughout Europe so easily BECAUSE there was a war going on that required the mass movement of people and cargo. The Spanish Flu killed more human beings than the actual war did. 
>  Wow. No part of this statement is correct whatever. You think we entered WW2 because Hitler invaded the USSR? *And Britain decided to declare war on Germany*, not the other way around. *The Germans offered the UK a peace deal,* which would have resulted in an agreement to let Germany eradicate Communism in Europe. Britain turned them down, and instead decided to play footsies under the table with Stalin, which signaled to the Germans that an unannounced alliance was being made between the UK and communist Russia.


1. oohh nice bit of selective fact picking there.  We declared war because you invaded Poland, whom we had a mutual defense treaty with. Hitler miscalculated, he knew of the Treaty, and figured we wouldnt act on it. He tried his luck, and got it wrong

2.The 'peace deal' offered was basically surrender and capitulation . It was an insult and never going to be accepted by any self respecting englishman.




Plus, all the nonsense you post about the UK 'leaping into bed with the communists' is garbage, There was a treaty between Uk France and russia signed long before called The Triple Entente. In any case, in 1939 Russia was no threat to the Uk. Germany was.

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Big Wheeler (05-08-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

Now heres an illuminating bit of information:
_

".....the French boats have disqualified themselves from licences by  over-fishing, fishing juvenile fish, and fishing far too often,  according to current fisheries legislation. French boats are required,  under the ‘deal’ with the UK, to show detailed lists of their fishing  activity and are refusing to do so as they breach the conditions.  Ironically, as a distinguished economist has pointed out, one of the  reasons for the delay in Jersey giving out permits is the refusal of the  French authorities to provide any information on catches landed in  French ports as required by the Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA).  But the EU says our refusal to provide real time information on goods  being shipped to Northern Ireland is a breach of the TCA and they are  taking us to court. The UK should of course simply mirror this legal  action, but no, oh dear no, Whitehall would not hear of it, it might  chill the diplomatic atmosphere."_

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Neo (05-08-2021)

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## Neo

> Now heres an illuminating bit of information:
> _
> 
> ".....the French boats have disqualified themselves from licences by  over-fishing, fishing juvenile fish, and fishing far too often,  according to current fisheries legislation. French boats are required,  under the ‘deal’ with the UK, to show detailed lists of their fishing  activity and are refusing to do so as they breach the conditions.  Ironically, as a distinguished economist has pointed out, one of the  reasons for the delay in Jersey giving out permits is the refusal of the  French authorities to provide any information on catches landed in  French ports as required by the Trade and Co-operation Agreement (TCA).  But the EU says our refusal to provide real time information on goods  being shipped to Northern Ireland is a breach of the TCA and they are  taking us to court. The UK should of course simply mirror this legal  action, but no, oh dear no, Whitehall would not hear of it, it might  chill the diplomatic atmosphere."_


Typical case of the French trying every trick in the book, however! Ultimately they know we will have them dangling on the end of a hook in 2026 when ALL signed agreement come to an end.

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## Hermannsdenkmal

> absolutely incorrect. The trigger to hostilities in 1914 were a set of interlocking treaties between various countries, known as the Mutual Defense Alliances, that obliged them to come to each others defence - Germany was obliged to support Austria. Russia was obliged to defend Serbia. France  was obliged to help Russia, the UK obliged to help France.  The moment Philip Princip fired his gun, WW1 was inevitable and unstoppable.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. oohh nice bit of selective fact picking there.  We declared war because you invaded Poland, whom we had a mutual defense treaty with. Hitler miscalculated, he knew of the Treaty, and figured we wouldnt act on it. He tried his luck, and got it wrong
> 
> 2.The 'peace deal' offered was basically surrender and capitulation . It was an insult and never going to be accepted by any self respecting englishman.
> 
> 
> ...


Germany and Soviet Russia both invaded Poland in September, 1939. The UK and France declared war on Germany for this action, but not Russia. Apparently those countries sworn defense of Poland didn't include a defense in case of communist invasion, only a German one. Acts of violence against ethnic Germans living in the so-called Polish corridor were common in the lead up to Germany's invasion. In Russia the violence was worse, with regular witch hunts and murders carried out by the NKVD against German males, some who were just children. 
As Oswald Mosely tried to remind the Brits repeatedly, what vital interest was Poland to Britain, that your Prime Minister should declare war *only in relationship to the western half of Poland, but not the eastern half which Russia took?* The mental gymnastics needed to justify Britain's half-assed reasoning should be a red flag.

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## UKSmartypants

> Germany and Soviet Russia both invaded Poland in September, 1939. The UK and France declared war on Germany for this action, but not Russia. Apparently those countries sworn defense of Poland didn't include a defense in case of communist invasion, only a German one. Acts of violence against ethnic Germans living in the so-called Polish corridor were common in the lead up to Germany's invasion. In Russia the violence was worse, with regular witch hunts and murders carried out by the NKVD against German males, some who were just children. 
> As Oswald Mosely tried to remind the Brits repeatedly, what vital interest was Poland to Britain, that your Prime Minister should declare war *only in relationship to the western half of Poland, but not the eastern half which Russia took?* The mental gymnastics needed to justify Britain's half-assed reasoning should be a red flag.



Because of the way the Mutual Defense Treaties worked, plus if Germany and Russia were dividing up Poland, then one or the other was going to end up an ally, because they were ideologically opposed and at some stage likely to set about each other. The most likely result in 1939 was that the main aggressor was going to be Germany, and the Russian action was a) just opportunism that can be dealt with later and b) not a direct threat to the UK.  So not declaring war on Russia was a prudent move and allowed us to ally with them later on,  and thus turn  Russia against Germany in Poland. The British at the time were a lot smarter than you give them credit for. As it so happened, it didnt matter because Hitler ignored the Schlieffen Plan, which as predicted by Schlieffen in 1909, caused Germany to lose the war by opening a second front against Russia.

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## Hermannsdenkmal

> Because of the way the Mutual Defense Treaties worked, plus if Germany and Russia were dividing up Poland, then one or the other was going to end up an ally, because they were ideologically opposed and at some stage likely to set about each other. The most likely result in 1939 was that the main aggressor was going to be Germany, and the Russian action was a) just opportunism that can be dealt with later and b) not a direct threat to the UK.  So not declaring war on Russia was a prudent move and allowed us to ally with them later on,  and thus turn  Russia against Germany in Poland. The British at the time were a lot smarter than you give them credit for. As it so happened, it didnt matter because Hitler ignored the Schlieffen Plan, which as predicted by Schlieffen in 1909, caused Germany to lose the war by opening a second front against Russia.


Yes but it goes far beyond what you've stated here. British intelligence blamed the Russian massacre of 20,000 Polish soldiers on Germany in 1939. How am I to view Britain's odd devotion to Russia, even going so far as to blame Russian atrocities on Germany? 

The facts point to British leadership not caring a fig about Poland. Britain was looking for an excuse to start a war with Germany, and they even manufactured disinformation in order to do so.

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