# Politics and News > World Affairs >  Why Americans buy cars from dealerships.

## Neo



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Conservative Libertarian (10-01-2021),Foghorn (10-01-2021),Old Tex (10-01-2021)

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## Neo

I’ve only ever bought one car from a large franchised dealership, I was a naive, trusting young man.

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Old Ridge Runner (10-01-2021)

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## Oceander

As opposed to buying them from where?

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Conservative Libertarian (10-01-2021),JMWinPR (10-01-2021),Kodiak (10-01-2021),Old Ridge Runner (10-01-2021),Quark (10-01-2021)

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## Quark

If you don't buy from a dealership who's going to service the new vehicle?

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Conservative Libertarian (10-01-2021),Old Ridge Runner (10-01-2021)

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## Foghorn

In most states you have to buy new cars from dealerships by law.

Certain car makers such as Tesla have been testing the exact definition of "dealership".

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Conservative Libertarian (10-01-2021),Oceander (10-01-2021),Old Ridge Runner (10-01-2021),Quark (10-01-2021)

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## Oceander

> In most states you have to buy new cars from dealerships by law.
> 
> Certain car makers such as Tesla have been testing the exact definition of "dealership".


Exactly.

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## Captain Kirk!

> If you don't buy from a dealership who's going to service the new vehicle?


I serviced my own.

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Old Ridge Runner (10-01-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> I serviced my own.


Good on older cars. Void the warranty on new cars.

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## Call_me_Ishmael

Maybe the OP meant we should do like they do in Baltimore and just _steal_ them from the dealerships . :Dontknow:

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JMWinPR (10-01-2021)

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## Oceander

> Good on older cars. Void the warranty on new cars.


Depends on what sort of work is done.  Doing an oil change someplace other than the dealership is not going to void the warranty.

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Captain Kirk! (10-01-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Depends on what sort of work is done.  Doing an oil change someplace other than the dealership is not going to void the warranty.


I was going to type that but it seemed to go without saying. Apparently not.

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Oceander (10-01-2021)

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## Captain Kirk!

> Good on older cars. Void the warranty on new cars.


Service meaning maintenance. Doing your own maintenance doesn't void your warranty. Repairing a new car that is under warranty may.

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## Neo

> Maybe the OP meant we should do like they do in Baltimore and just _steal_ them from the dealerships .


Ive always bought cars privately apart from one occasion, my father taught me everything I needed to know about cars and buying cars.
He always bought used cars, in the 60s and 70s buying a new car was fantasy land, nobody had money to buy anything back then. A normal average family always bought used cars from looking in the cars fir sale sects in our local paper. People like us sold cars and bought cars this way, its still done.
Although I know everything about a car I never do any work on it myself except check the oil, tyre pressures, coolant level. Batteries are sealed these days. 
Unless you are salaried and a car comes with a job buying a spanking new car is an unreachable dream as cars are £20k +

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TheOneOnly2 (10-01-2021)

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## Neo

There has been a Government Pensions change here in Britain.  The goalposts have been moved.  We will get less, that means people will have to rely on savings or use equity from their property to live after retiring. 
Thd clever people like myself have invested in private pensions as U.K.government  pensions are the scourge of Europe. 

Buying new expensive cars are a thing of the past  here mostly, the thing now is “leasing”  you can lease the car.

People here will not commit to buying a car on a 3-5 year length as job security  is also something  of the past,  and it’s an uncertain world right now.

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## Kodiak

> I’ve always bought cars privately apart from one occasion, my father taught me everything I needed to know about cars and buying cars.
> He always bought used cars, in the 60s and 70s buying a new car was fantasy land, nobody had money to buy anything back then. A normal average family always bought used cars from looking in the cars fir sale sects in our local paper. People like us sold cars and bought cars this way, it’s still done.
> Although I know everything about a car I never do any work on it myself except check the oil, tyre pressures, coolant level. Batteries are sealed these days. 
> Unless you are salaried and a car comes with a job buying a spanking new car is an unreachable dream as cars are £20k +


So you're talking USED cars.  Pretty sure most of us in here assumed you were talking about new cars.   If I buy used, I definitely go with the original owner if possible.   A good reason is to avoid paying used taxes from a stealership. 

I did buy my current 2016 Ram 2500 Cummins diesel 3 years ago from a dealer and had just been traded in on a new one.  But they had all the service records from the original owner and agreed to absorb the sales tax.

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Neo (10-01-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

Buy from a dealership, from a car lot, because that's where the cars are.

If you want a particular model or type, and it doesn't appear often, and a car lot is selling one...it saves you time to buy it there.

If you want new...well, it makes sense in some cases.

To buy new without a dealer:  I did it, ONCE.  Chinese motorcycle.  Issues up the ying-yang.  Back then Chinese motor products were a New Thing, unknown.  The specifications looked slick - engine borrowed a Yamaha design; chassis a Honda.  What could go wrong?

The wiring, for one.  I was ready for that, and it wasn't hard to make right.  But when the camshaft chain slipped, because the sprockets were worn out...2500 miles...yes, you got that right, those sprockets were made of pot metal, apparently...and I had a claim, one they just ignored...the bike got thrown out, along with the $2200 I had spent on it.

NEVER again.

A DEALER would have been able, and could have been forced, to make it right.  That's what dealers DO - they serve as company representatives.  They're also a cushion for demand - they buy direct from the company, and then must absorb slacks in demand, and work to meet sudden spurts.

It's a needed function in marketing.  That's why they get rich in good times - because when sales drop, many of them go broke, too.  They absorb much of the risk.

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Neo (10-01-2021),Oceander (10-01-2021)

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## Neo

> Buy from a dealership, from a car lot, because that's where the cars are.
> 
> If you want a particular model or type, and it doesn't appear often, and a car lot is selling one...it saves you time to buy it there.
> 
> If you want new...well, it makes sense in some cases.
> 
> To buy new without a dealer:  I did it, ONCE.  Chinese motorcycle.  Issues up the ying-yang.  Back then Chinese motor products were a New Thing, unknown.  The specifications looked slick - engine borrowed a Yamaha design; chassis a Honda.  What could go wrong?
> 
> The wiring, for one.  I was ready for that, and it wasn't hard to make right.  But when the camshaft chain slipped, because the sprockets were worn out...2500 miles...yes, you got that right, those sprockets were made of pot metal, apparently...and I had a claim, one they just ignored...the bike got thrown out, along with the $2200 I had spent on it.
> ...


I bough a fairly new used car from a Vauxhall dealer in 1989, it was over a 48 month deal, I traded in my old car for £1,000 and signed an agreement to pay  £33 a week = £143 per month x 48 months

back then it was a fortune, but I was working on some of the biggest construction sites in the U.K. plenty of overtime, from one great paying job to to the next, a shortage of coded pipe welders. 

Telford hospital 
Toyota factory Derby
Oxford European nuclear scientific establishment
RAF Brize Norton 
Ive forgotten a lot.

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## TheOneOnly2

> I’ve always bought cars privately apart from one occasion, my father taught me everything I needed to know about cars and buying cars.
> He always bought used cars, in the 60s and 70s buying a new car was fantasy land, nobody had money to buy anything back then. A normal average family always bought used cars from looking in the cars fir sale sects in our local paper. People like us sold cars and bought cars this way, it’s still done.
> Although I know everything about a car I never do any work on it myself except check the oil, tyre pressures, coolant level. Batteries are sealed these days. 
> Unless you are salaried and a car comes with a job buying a spanking new car is an unreachable dream as cars are £20k +


I know a Pommy Farmer from where I live. Oddly his surname is German. I dont remember why but we were have a short conversation about how you lose so much value buying a new car as soon as you drive it away from dealership. Im pretty sure I was agreeing with him that he got a good deal on his new second hand vehicle. And he says " Yeah but someone has to buy them first." 

Repayments on a new Kia are pretty reasonable. 

I buy second hand Hondas. 

Dependable Used Cars: Why a Used Honda Is Hands Down the Best Choice | Wilde East Towne Honda

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Neo (10-01-2021)

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## Neo

I bought a 2003 Ford Mondeo in 2009   For £3,500
 The owner  at a local car garage wanted £4,000 but I told him I was local and I would only deal exclusively with him for a lower deal.
He only sold low mileage lady owners cars, fully guaranteed for a year and all with a service history. Only a fool wouldn’t buy from him.
The car had 25,000 miles on it, the car must have been garaged, not a spec of rust underneath or anywhere.
Today I have just passed 60,000 miles in it, in 12 years I’ve only done 35,000 miles.  :Smile:

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TheOneOnly2 (10-01-2021)

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## Oceander

> I bought a 2003 Ford Mondeo in 2009   For £3,500
>  The owner  at a local car garage wanted £4,000 but I told him I was local and I would only deal exclusively with him for a lower deal.
> He only sold low mileage lady owners cars, fully guaranteed for a year and all with a service history. Only a fool wouldn’t buy from him.
> The car had 25,000 miles on it, the car must have been garaged, not a spec of rust underneath or anywhere.
> Today I have just passed 60,000 miles in it, in 12 years I’ve only done 40,000 miles.


Dunno about the maths, tho'!

60,000, less 25,000, comes out to 35,000, not 40,000, but maybe I'm missing something.

Rounding error, perhaps!   :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## Old Tex

I LIKE to buy new cars. I don't care that they drop in value because I drive them until they die. But I don't like to buy from dealers & they left off my main reason on the video. It's because 95% of dealer will cheat you any way that they can. Now I live in a town of 100,000 people & here's the list of our dealers & what they have done.

Ford = refused to work on my 19 year old truck because they don't work on anything 20        years & older. (WTH?) Yes that was the reason given.

GM = I caught them in 2 lies at 2 different times 

Mazda = Part of the ford dealer. Also didn't want to deal.

Nissan = Lies & wouldn't deal.

Chevy = Wouldn't deal to the point that the lowest price they would sell a car for was over what I could buy it from the chevy company on line.

Hyundai = The car I wanted was marked up $7,000 OVER the sicker price because it was "hot".

Kia = Seemed fairly honest but I would have had to spend $6,000 more to get the options I wanted.

VW = Told me that if I ordered the same car that they had on hand but a different color it would be $2,500 more.

Dodge = I didn't want anything they made.

Toyota = Known for not dealing BUT they had the car I wanted with the options I wanted. Started dealing with them which took 3 days. Got them down from their teaser lowest on line price by $4,500. That car is sitting in my driveway. 

Throw in something interesting. I've got a heavy foot (always have had) & I drive fast. Just by starting slower & using the gears properly I have increased my MPG by 2.4 MPG. I find that interesting.

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Foghorn (10-01-2021)

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## Foghorn

It took me almost 2 months to buy my 2013 F-150 but I really wasn't in a hurry anyway.  The problem was the dealer had advertised that specific vehicle online at a good price for a new truck, but then refused to honor the online price.  After meeting no. 1 at the dealership I realized it was going to be a pissing match, which I happen to enjoy in those situations where I really don't care one way or the other.

Whole lot of pissing during that 2 months time - kinda fun.

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Kodiak (10-01-2021)

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## Dan40

> 


New cars?  Used cars?  Stolen cars?

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## East of the Beast

Bentley's are overpriced status symbols

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## Kodiak

> It took me almost 2 months to buy my 2013 F-150 but I really wasn't in a hurry anyway.  The problem was the dealer had advertised that specific vehicle online at a good price for a new truck, but then refused to honor the online price.  After meeting no. 1 at the dealership I realized it was going to be a pissing match, which I happen to enjoy in those situations where I really don't care one way or the other.
> 
> Whole lot of pissing during that 2 months time - kinda fun.


Can't do that these days with the chip shortage.  Dealer lots are pretty empty around here and trucks prices are at a premium.   I booked my Ram a couple of days ago on KBB and it shows it's worth $10k more now than when I bought it 3 years ago.

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Foghorn (10-01-2021),Neo (10-02-2021)

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## Quark

> I serviced my own.


I guess if you are technician with all the tools that's okay but boy I wouldn't know where to start and of course I'm an old fart.

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Captain Kirk! (10-01-2021),East of the Beast (10-01-2021),Neo (10-02-2021)

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## Taxcutter

Getting around state dealership laws was the whole point of GM's Saturn venture.   Good idea but they used a half-baked car.

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## Wilson2

Last car purchase was from Carmax, no haggle.  Easy to work with them.

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## JustPassinThru

> Last car purchase was from Carmax, no haggle.  Easy to work with them.


Any car dealer will give you a no-haggle sale.

Just pay the posted price, and you get no haggle.  A sore rear end, but no haggling.

I have found CarMax overpriced, when I've been shopping.  True, in a tight market, if/when you NEED a car...that may be the way to go; but it's not a First Stop.

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Neo (10-02-2021)

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## Neo

> It took me almost 2 months to buy my 2013 F-150 but I really wasn't in a hurry anyway.  The problem was the dealer had advertised that specific vehicle online at a good price for a new truck, but then refused to honor the online price.  After meeting no. 1 at the dealership I realized it was going to be a pissing match, which I happen to enjoy in those situations where I really don't care one way or the other.
> 
> Whole lot of pissing during that 2 months time - kinda fun.


The F150 is a huge monster, I saw one in Ibiza Spain whilst on holiday, I can see why Ford will
never sell them in the U.K. our roads aren’t wide enough.  :Frown:

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Kodiak (10-02-2021)

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## Kodiak

> The F150 is a huge monster, I saw one in Ibiza Spain whilst on holiday, I can see why Ford will
> never sell them in the U.K. our roads aren’t wide enough.



That's the size of just about every truck here in America.  F250's (3/4 ton) are even larger.

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Neo (10-02-2021)

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## Authentic

> Bentley's are overpriced status symbols


I rode in a Porsche yesterday and didn't know that I was in one until someone mentioned, "hey, we're in a Porsche!"

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> I rode in a Porsche yesterday and didn't know that I was in one until someone mentioned, "hey, we're in a Porsche!"


Ahhh... visiting Austria? You shoulda obeyed their laws.

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Authentic (10-02-2021),Kodiak (10-02-2021)

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## Neo

One of my bosses has a Nissan like this. It’s quite handy, he tows stuff and brings out exotic electric tools in the back for us.

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## Kodiak

Looks like a Nissan Frontier as they are called here.   Their competition for the Toyota Tacoma compact truck.

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## Neo

> Looks like a Nissan Frontier as they are called here.   Their competition for the Toyota Tacoma compact truck.


It’s called a Navara over here.

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## Quark

> The F150 is a huge monster, I saw one in Ibiza Spain whilst on holiday, I can see why Ford will
> never sell them in the U.K. our roads arent wide enough.


That's a normal size pick up truck. You should see our really big pick up trucks. The real coal burners. Remember though the USA is BIG so BIG trucks are needed.

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## Quark

> One of my bosses has a Nissan like this. It’s quite handy, he tows stuff and brings out exotic electric tools in the back for us.


That's a mid-size baby truck.

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Neo (10-03-2021)

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## Wilson2

> That's a normal size pick up truck. You should see our really big pick up trucks. The real coal burners. Remember though the USA is BIG so BIG trucks are needed.


Trucks are getting too tall.   Goosenecks need modifications to clear the sides of the bed, You need a big drop down hitch for bumper pull trailers.  

Ford etc make pickups for the suv city crowd and forgot the working people.

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## JustPassinThru

> Trucks are getting too tall.   Goosenecks need modifications to clear the sides of the bed, You need a big drop down hitch for bumper pull trailers.  
> 
> Ford etc make pickups for the suv city crowd and forgot the working people.


They can't sell enough of them.

I wanted to buy a Toyota...the T100 is getting old...discontinued about 15 years ago.  The Tundra was basically an update...at first.  It would have been a reasonable size truck and had a towing rating I was looking for.

But it grew, too...and in price, as well.  There ARE no small trucks, anymore.  Partly because of the insanity of the CAFE standards, which give easier mileage standards to bigger-SIZED trucks and the same standards on (discontinued) little trucks as similar-sized cars.  

So, the little trucks went bye-bye and now all we have are monsters.  And the Bubbas all love it that way...they can't make enough of them.

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## Neo

> That's a mid-size baby truck.


Yes it’s a baby compared to the F-150

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

> Yes it’s a baby compared to the F-150


Been a few years since you've been to the States, I take it.

You would not BELIEVE the size of these new trucks.  The F-150 is basically one of the smaller full-size trucks.  It's a half-ton model.  The huge "Ram" (the brand Dodge adopted...part of Chrysler, later FCA, now...what is that new name for the Fiat-Peugeot merger?)... those one-ton six-wheel diesel lifted monsters are a caricature of pickup trucks.  Actually, useless, except maybe for towing.  Bed is too high; the heavy springs have to give it a rocky ride...diesel engines take a LOT more maintenance, and then there's the DEF that has to be added for the emissions system...you have something that's higher than a small-plane cockpit, rides like it has no springs, but the whole inside is done up in leather.  And costs close to, or sometimes over, $100,000.  Probably 80,000 pounds or more.

I have an F150.  Former fleet truck, bought used with low mileage.  I keep on getting surprised at how good the fuel mileage is on it...it works out to about 24 mpg, don't know the liters-per-klick.  But it's the same mileage I got in the 1970s with my VW Type 1 Beetle.

So...no one's gonna accuse me of wasting Earf's resources.  I ain't having it.

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Call_me_Ishmael (10-03-2021)

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## Kodiak

> *Trucks are getting too tall*.   Goosenecks need modifications to clear the sides of the bed, You need a big drop down hitch for bumper pull trailers.




You got that right especially if you have  4x4.  This our setup and the nose of the 5th wheel is up too high and already went from 15" to 16" rims with taller tires.   The only option is to get a 2wd or raise the RV, so I just live with it.

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## Kodiak

> They can't sell enough of them.
> 
> I wanted to buy a Toyota...the T100 is getting old...discontinued about 15 years ago.  The Tundra was basically an update...at first.  It would have been a reasonable size truck and had a towing rating I was looking for.
> 
> But it grew, too...and in price, as well.  There ARE no small trucks, anymore.  Partly because of the insanity of the CAFE standards, which give easier mileage standards to bigger-SIZED trucks and the same standards on (discontinued) little trucks as similar-sized cars.  
> 
> So, the little trucks went bye-bye and now all we have are monsters.  And the Bubbas all love it that way...they can't make enough of them.


Ford did bring the mid-sized Ranger back plus there is the Chevy Colorado.  After living in that 5th wheel for 8 1/2 months while our home was being built we are going to get rid of it and I will be looking for a smaller truck since I won't need a diesel.   I may look at either of those.   My current Ram just barely fits in the garage.

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## Neo

A Ford F-250 Ive never seen one.

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

> A Ford F-250 I’ve never seen one.


The reality is, they're not really practical vehicles.

As a homeowner utility vehicle, you can see, it's just too massive.  With the six-person cab, it's far too long for urban use, even here.

As a commercial lorry, the bed is too small and delicate - Ford and others can put a flatbed or stake-side body on that chassis, and it's much more suitable.

But our Bubba faction just loves it.  "Me, Ah love me some BIG...TRUCK!"  I call it the Little Penis Syndrome.  They seem to be compensating.

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Neo (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

The F250 is too big?

This one was sold by Navistar for a short time - the 2008 economic crash ended that idiocy...

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> The reality is, they're not really practical vehicles.
> 
> As a homeowner utility vehicle, you can see, it's just too massive.  With the six-person cab, it's far too long for urban use, even here.
> 
> As a commercial lorry, the bed is too small and delicate - Ford and others can put a flatbed or stake-side body on that chassis, and it's much more suitable.
> 
> But our Bubba faction just loves it.  "Me, Ah love me some BIG...TRUCK!"  I call it the Little Penis Syndrome.  They seem to be compensating.


I laugh at most of em. And the evidence is seen in parking garages near parking lots. If these big men had balls they would be willing to walk a few hundred yards from the lot instead of trying to get 20 feet from the door by parking in spaces too small for them in the parking garage. They don't even know we are laughing at them.

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Neo (10-03-2021)

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## Quark

> Trucks are getting too tall.   Goosenecks need modifications to clear the sides of the bed, You need a big drop down hitch for bumper pull trailers.  
> 
> Ford etc make pickups for the suv city crowd and forgot the working people.


Well you do need tall trucks out here in the boonies. Most people buy 4X4 trucks which by nature are taller. Buy a 2X2 truck and it won't be as tall.

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## Quark

> Yes it’s a baby compared to the F-150


Actually a F-150 in 2x2 form is a small truck. The F-150 becomes a little bit bigger in 4X4 form. America is a big country and we need big trucks. The square miles of the USA is a million square miles larger than Australia.

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## Neo

I’m a practical man, I buy what I need to do the job, an F-250 would be ideal if I had a 100-200 acres of land and it snowed a lot.

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Quark

> A Ford F-250 I’ve never seen one.


Which is a good thing as it would probably scare you.  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

Heavens if you ever see a Ford F-350 or F-450!

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## Quark

Well I don't know about where some of you live but in my neck of the woods just as many women are driving big trucks as any Bubba.

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Thom Paine (10-03-2021)

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## Neo

> Well I don't know about where some of you live but in my neck of the woods just as many women are driving big trucks as any Bubba.


We were in Ibiza Spain, I took a photo of my northern wife stood next to the F-150 she looked tiny, she was very impressed with it.
When I got back from Spain I remember enquiring about the Ford F-150 only to be told Ford doesn’t sell them over here, only by special private import. 
It’s a shame, as I only drive under 4,000 miles a year it would be an ideal drive around to piss off the locals.  :Smile:

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Neo

I just googled, there are a few used F-150 on this link, as a fairly rich hairy arsed hard working plumber I could pay cash for any one on that link. But!  I wont   :Smile:  
https://www.motors.co.uk/ford/f150/used-cars/

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## Neo

I fancy this one. Well within budget methinks?

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Kodiak

> I’m a practical man, I buy what I need to do the job, an F-250 would be ideal if I had a 100-200 acres of land and it snowed a lot.


Or if you towed a large 5th wheel or trailer like we do.

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## East of the Beast

Big trucks are also good for fat people..they can haul a lot of ass.

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Neo

> Or if you towed a large 5th wheel or trailer like we do.


Yeah!  :Smile:

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Kodiak (10-03-2021),Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Quark

> Big trucks are also good for fat people..they can haul a lot of ass.


I resent that remark!!!!!!! I haul my Ferengi fat ass around in a Honda CR-V thank you very much!!!!!! :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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East of the Beast (10-03-2021)

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## Neo

> I resent that remark!!!!!!! I haul my Ferengi fat ass around in a Honda CR-V thank you very much!!!!!!


I havent got a fat arse, but I certainly would buy one if my frigging driveway was big enough  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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Kodiak (10-03-2021),Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Kodiak

Not sure about now, but the F150 was the top selling vehicle in America for years.  But I'm a Ram guy and have had 7 of them with a couple of Fords thrown in the mix over the years.  They are just too handy when you are a home owner with constant projects.   I haven't had an actual car since 1994.  The wife drove a car when she was still working, but now has a Jeep Grand Cherokee.

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Neo (10-03-2021),Quark (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

> Well you do need tall trucks out here in the boonies. Most people buy 4X4 trucks which by nature are taller. Buy a 2X2 truck and it won't be as tall.


Not true, my alien friend.

My F150 is a 2wd and sits just as tall.  Nope, not a special setup - this was a construction-contractor supervisor's truck.  Stock all the way.  NOTHING on the option sheet.

But they make them all high, now.  Because, BUBBA!

I could order the big garish 4X4 stickers for the side of the box, and no one would even know.

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

> Not sure about now, but the F150 was the top selling vehicle in America for years.  But I'm a Ram guy and have had 7 of them with a couple of Fords thrown in the mix over the years.  They are just too handy when you are a home owner with constant projects.   I haven't had an actual car since 1994.  The wife drove a car when she was still working, but now has a Jeep Grand Cherokee.


That's why I liked Toyota trucks, when they were reasonably sized.  And reasonably-priced. 

Very handy.  But now, with a full-size truck...it's MURDER trying to park it.

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## JustPassinThru

> Well I don't know about where some of you live but in my neck of the woods just as many women are driving big trucks as any Bubba.



Yup.

They have more tattoos, also.  And fouler mouths.

And girlfriends.

I don't know what their problems are.  Nor do I care.

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Call_me_Ishmael (10-03-2021),Quark (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

> I resent that remark!!!!!!! I haul my Ferengi fat ass around in a Honda CR-V thank you very much!!!!!!


I used to own a Toyota Tercel.

One of my favorite past cars.  Drove well; saved me gas...it was mid-1990s, which was an engineering sweet spot.  Cars of that era had fuel injection and good rust resistance; but didn't have the Obama emissions stuff or 55 airbags.  It had one per rider.

I had to haul some bulky stuff - so I got the wrenches out and took out the passenger seat.  Four bolts, ten minutes, and it was out.  No, it didn't trip off the Airbag Fail alarm.  I liked the room in there so much, I left the seat out.  Went to Florida in that car.

Today, if you can get the super-secret wrench to take out a car seat, and you unplug the airbags, it sends all kinds of alarms to the CANBUS and dash.  Some cars won't shift out of first gear (everything is automatic, now) that way.  That Tercel was a manual shift.

But me and my fat arse fit in there real well.

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Quark (10-03-2021)

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## Kodiak

> That's why I liked Toyota trucks, when they were reasonably sized.  And reasonably-priced. 
> 
> Very handy.  But now, with a full-size truck...it's MURDER trying to park it.


I will definitely downsize when the 5th wheel sells.  Like you say, parking is somewhat of a pain and I just won't need a diesel any longer.   Tacoma is high on the list since I worked at a Toyota dealership for 15 years and know how they are built.   My bud a few houses down just bought a 2017 Tundra and it's nearly if not the same size as my Ram 2500.   But he pulls a 26 ft travel trailer, way too big for a Tacoma.

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## JustPassinThru

> I will definitely downsize when the 5th wheel sells.  Like you say, parking is somewhat of a pain and I just won't need a diesel any longer.   Tacoma is high on the list since I worked at a Toyota dealership for 15 years and know how they are built.   My bud a few houses down just bought a 2017 Tundra and it's nearly if not the same size as my Ram 2500.   But he pulls a 26 ft travel trailer, way too big for a Tacoma.


Today's Tacoma is about as big as a 1980 Ford F150.  BIGGER than the Ranger pickup of the past, or the S-10.

They're not compact by any stretch of the imagination.  And you can ONLY get four-place or five-place settings.  Conventional cabs are gone.

I went down to the Toyota dealer...I knew he wouldn't have any, but I wanted to find out if they would order me a fleet Tundra.  They can't...it ONLY comes with the thick carpeting, the back seat, the four doors.  Now they're nice trucks - but if I want nice, I'll buy a passenger car.  I don't think much of carpet - it soaks up slop off your shoes, and then just STINKS forever.

Rubber floor coverings are the way to go.  Amazingly, that's what my F150 has, and it's just fine with me.

I'm disappointed in the general quality of the Ford, but what I got was just about what I wanted.  Priced too high, but all trucks are, and half the price of a USED Toyota.

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## Kodiak

Yea, and Tacomas are priced similar to full sized trucks too in the little bit I have looked at them.  But right now with the chip shortage, all truck prices are through the roof.   Tacomas and most Toyotas have always had crazy high resale value.

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East of the Beast (10-03-2021)

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## JustPassinThru

No question.  They're worth a lot - beware of the Tacoma frame-rust issue, though - but otherwise, they're bulletproof.

But to me it's insane to spend $34k on a vehicle, ANY vehicle, with over 100,000 miles on it.  Even a Toyota...sure, they'll last double that; but maintenance items start popping up.

I got my F150 for $25k with 35k miles on it.

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## Kodiak

> I used to own a Toyota Tercel.
> 
> One of my favorite past cars.  Drove well; saved me gas...it was mid-1990s, which was an engineering sweet spot.  Cars of that era had fuel injection and good rust resistance; but didn't have the Obama emissions stuff or 55 airbags.  It had one per rider.
> 
> I had to haul some bulky stuff - so I got the wrenches out and took out the passenger seat.  Four bolts, ten minutes, and it was out.  No, it didn't trip off the Airbag Fail alarm.  I liked the room in there so much, I left the seat out.  Went to Florida in that car.
> 
> Today, if you can get the super-secret wrench to take out a car seat, and you unplug the airbags, it sends all kinds of alarms to the CANBUS and dash.  Some cars won't shift out of first gear (everything is automatic, now) that way.  That Tercel was a manual shift.
> 
> But me and my fat arse fit in there real well.


The very first new car I ever bought was a new 1981 Tercel for my first wife, their first front wheel drive vehicle, at least in the US.  The engine even sat inline in engine compartment compared to all other front drive cars with the engine sideways.   I think we paid around $7800 for it from memory, which seemed like a LOT back then.

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## JustPassinThru

> The very first new car I ever bought was a new 1981 Tercel for my first wife, their first front wheel drive vehicle, at least in the US.  The engine even sat inline in engine compartment compared to all other front drive cars with the engine sideways.   I think we paid around $7800 for it from memory, which seemed like a LOT back then.


That was Toyota's experiment in FWD.  They had never done it before.

I remember a magazine suggesting that Toyota was trying to use as many pieces off-the-shelf as they could.  Engine was out of a Corolla.  The final-drive was one of their Japanese models...same as what went into a RWD axle, just repacaged and moved forward.  The engine and transmission sat above it.

It worked okay but it had a lot of compromises.  But it sold very well and Toyota management, always conservative, was convinced that an investment in FWD cars would be worth it.

I think the mid-1990s was the third generation of the Tercel.  Entirely different and with a transverse engine.  Not exciting, but just all-around good.

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## Quark

I wonder if we will start selling vehicles without all the chips now that we have a chip shortage? I think it's Arizona where Intel, Samsung, and forget the other two chip makers are building new chip plants. But they it's three to five years before all the factories are built and up and producing.

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