# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Ruger® PC Carbine Chassis Model with Pistol Grip Stock

## DonGlock26

:Thumbsup20:

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markdido (10-27-2019),MrogersNhood (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

I like it.  A low power variable optic seems like a good choice.

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DonGlock26 (10-28-2019)

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## US Conservative

Im real interested in both the PC carbine and the Just Right Carbine.  Anyone tried both?

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Rickity Plumber (10-28-2019)

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## DonGlock26



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MrogersNhood (11-14-2019),Old Ridge Runner (11-13-2019),US Conservative (11-13-2019)

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## US Conservative

Seems like a thoughtful evolution to the PC carbine.

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DonGlock26 (11-13-2019),MrogersNhood (11-14-2019)

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## Someguy

I thought the PC Carbine was worth considering until I saw a video by a guy who uses his in competition.   He removed the bolt, and pointed at the 2 steel pins that hold it all together.  Then he pointed at the inside of the aluminum receiver, and the groove that was being worn by those pins, after 2,000 rounds.  That ended my interest. 
Next on my list was the PSA carbine.   When they're available, it's a slick side, with no brass deflector.   Brass to the face is a problem. 
OK.  My Glock 17L remains my "pc carbine".

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## US Conservative

> I thought the PC Carbine was worth considering until I saw a video by a guy who uses his in competition.   He removed the bolt, and pointed at the 2 steel pins that hold it all together.  Then he pointed at the inside of the aluminum receiver, and the groove that was being worn by those pins, after 2,000 rounds.  That ended my interest. 
> Next on my list was the PSA carbine.   When they're available, it's a slick side, with no brass deflector.   Brass to the face is a problem. 
> OK.  My Glock 17L remains my "pc carbine".


Can you link to that video on the PC carbine?

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## Wildrose

> I like it.  A low power variable optic seems like a good choice.


I'm not sure that I'd really want any magnification for any pistol caliber carbine as they just aren't made to shoot accurately very far.

This is an interesting rifle but honestly I've been looking at some of the old, original PC's.

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## US Conservative

> I'm not sure that I'd really want any magnification for any pistol caliber carbine as they just aren't made to shoot accurately very far.
> 
> This is an interesting rifle but honestly I've been looking at some of the old, original PC's.


2 MOA with a scope beats many ar carbines.

Really, I see it as reasonable out to 2 hundred yards.

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## Wildrose

> 2 MOA with a scope beats many ar carbines.
> 
> Really, I see it as reasonable out to 2 hundred yards.


Reasonable for what?  it's falling like a rock beyond 100yds.

The purpose of PCC's is close in defense/CQB.  Even the .30 carbine, a much more powerful round is pretty well out of gas at 100.

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## DonGlock26

> Seems like a thoughtful evolution to the PC carbine.


I'm interested in this variant.

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## US Conservative

> Reasonable for what?  it's falling like a rock beyond 100yds.
> 
> The purpose of PCC's is close in defense/CQB.  Even the .30 carbine, a much more powerful round is pretty well out of gas at 100.


Plinking and practice.

Its the same reason I shoot the .22 LR out to 300+.

I shoot PCP air rifles out to 150 yards also.

On the defensive side, yes its basically a more stable pistol platform.

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DonGlock26 (11-13-2019)

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## DonGlock26

> Plinking and practice.
> 
> Its the same reason I shoot the .22 LR out to 300+.
> 
> I shoot PCP air rifles out to 150 yards also.
> 
> On the defensive side, yes its basically a more stable pistol platform.


With a Glock Happy Stick (33rd mag) full of Golddot 124gr+P and a tactical light, it's pretty good for home defense.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> With a Glock Happy Stick (33rd mag) full of Golddot 124gr+P and a tactical light, it's pretty good for home defense.


Agreed.  For me it would be 3rd in line behind the AR, and the semi auto shotgun.  It would be ahead of pistols.

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DonGlock26 (11-14-2019)

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## Wildrose

> Plinking and practice.
> 
> Its the same reason I shoot the .22 LR out to 300+.
> 
> I shoot PCP air rifles out to 150 yards also.
> 
> On the defensive side, yes its basically a more stable pistol platform.


That makes sense.  It's like me trying to hit milk jugs with my ML at 400ys.  Way beyond what it's designed to do but still fun to do on occasion.  I'd never shoot it at game at that distance bu it's a blast to do it for fun.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> Reasonable for what?  it's falling like a rock beyond 100yds.
> 
> The purpose of PCC's is close in defense/CQB.  Even the .30 carbine, a much more powerful round is pretty well out of gas at 100.


Technically a bullet, rock, or large asteroid all fall with the same rate of acceleration until aerodynamic friction balances the acceleration of gravity.

(I know that you know this, just jabbing you in the ribs... )   :Tongue20:

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## US Conservative

> That makes sense.  It's like me trying to hit milk jugs with my ML at 400ys.  Way beyond what it's designed to do but still fun to do on occasion.  I'd never shoot it at game at that distance bu it's a blast to do it for fun.


Yeah I like to see what the limits of all of my gear is.  "If this was all I had...what could I reasonably do with it?".

I've got to get some flite-control buckshot and some slugs to see how far out I can take them.

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## Someguy

> Technically a bullet, rock, or large asteroid all fall with the same rate of acceleration until aerodynamic friction balances the acceleration of gravity.
> 
> (I know that you know this, just jabbing you in the ribs... )


Any projectile falls at the same speed of a rock, if it's fired on the horizontal plane.

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## US Conservative

> Technically a bullet, rock, or large asteroid all fall with the same rate of acceleration until aerodynamic friction balances the acceleration of gravity.
> 
> (I know that you know this, just jabbing you in the ribs... )


Terminal velocity.

The BC and muzzle velocity of .22 LR and 9mm are fairly close with the 9mm coming out on top.

A scope reticle for .22 LR or .22 Mag would probably be close to 9mm.

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## US Conservative

> Any projectile falls at the same speed of a rock, if it's fired on the horizontal plane.


9.8 meters/second squared until terminal velocity.

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## Physics Hunter

> Any projectile falls at the same speed of a rock, if it's fired on the horizontal plane.


Rate of Acceleration not speed...

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## Physics Hunter

> Terminal velocity.
> 
> The BC and muzzle velocity of .22 LR and 9mm are fairly close with the 9mm coming out on top.
> 
> A scope reticle for .22 LR or .22 Mag would probably be close to 9mm.


Stubby flat back bullets...  I would think that the 22LR would win on less frontal area, but there is the whole mass vs less laminar flow area...

It would make an interesting paper.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> 9.8 meters/second squared until terminal velocity.


Almost Exactly!

9.8M/S^2 - Friction(air,V)

Noting that F(air,V) changes when the bullet transitions from stabilized to tumbling.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> Stubby flat back bullets...  I would think that the 22LR would win on less frontal area, but there is the whole mass vs less laminar flow area...
> 
> It would make an interesting paper.


Certainly an interesting paper.  It does not take much to beat the BC of .22lr

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## US Conservative

> Almost Exactly!
> 
> 9.8M/S^2 - Friction(air,V)
> 
> Noting that F(air,V) changes when the bullet transitions from stabilized to tumbling.


Friction of air being dependent on what?  Density altitude/temp/humidity?

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## Crusader

> Im real interested in both the PC carbine and the Just Right Carbine.  Anyone tried both?


I own both, both function great and are more then accurate enough out to 100 meters. Got thousands of rounds through both (no excessive wear on the PCC). I would choose the PCC over the JRC, do to its much simpler break down and parts, not to mention cost.

Im going to buy another in 40, darn good carbine round and my daughter wants my 9mm ha ha.

Both are very sturdy and over engineered, I had a catastrophic case head separation kaboom in my JRC and it caused no damage what so ever to the gun. Pulled out the remainder stuck brass from the chamber and kept right on shooting.

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MrogersNhood (11-14-2019),Physics Hunter (11-14-2019),US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> Friction of air being dependent on what?  Density altitude/temp/humidity?


Yup.  And atmospheric conditions.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

Since we are doing physics, my 2 cents...Any projectile achieves max linear distance at a 45 degree release angle, from a spitball to a field howitzer, or anything else.

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Crusader (11-14-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> Since we are doing physics, my 2 cents...Any projectile achieves max linear distance at a 45 degree release angle, from a spitball to a field howitzer, or anything else.


That is true for a round, non-spinning, ball that does not leave the atmosphere...

(And Y'all should know that I am just having some josh-ing fun with Physics here.)    :Wink:

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Kris P Bacon (11-14-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> That is true for a round, non-spinning, ball that does not leave the atmosphere...
> 
> (And Y'all should know that I am just having some josh-ing fun with Physics here.)


Correctamundo! OK, objects that dont leave the earth's gravity  :Smile:

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## Physics Hunter

> Correctamundo! OK, objects that dont leave the earth's gravity


Don't make me pull out my spherical chicken joke...

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## Kris P Bacon

> Don't make me pull out my spherical chicken joke...


Do it! Just dont fowl it up!  :Smile:

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MrogersNhood (11-14-2019),Physics Hunter (11-15-2019),US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> Since we are doing physics, my 2 cents...Any projectile achieves max linear distance at a 45 degree release angle, from a spitball to a field howitzer, or anything else.


In a vacuum absolutely.

But stuck with us on earth, its closer to 30-35 degrees.

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## US Conservative

> I own both, both function great and are more then accurate enough out to 100 meters. Got thousands of rounds through both (no excessive wear on the PCC). I would choose the PCC over the JRC, do to its much simpler break down and parts, not to mention cost.
> 
> Im going to buy another in 40, darn good carbine round and my daughter wants my 9mm ha ha.
> 
> Both are very sturdy and over engineered, I had a catastrophic case head separation kaboom in my JRC and it caused no damage what so ever to the gun. Pulled out the remainder stuck brass from the chamber and kept right on shooting.


This is a valuable review.  Which 9mm do you think wins in accuracy and reliability?

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## Kris P Bacon

> In a vacuum absolutely.
> 
> But stuck with us on earth, its closer to 30-35 degrees.


Why? I'd always heard 45 degrees. Sure does work with slingshots and slings.

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## Crusader

> This is a valuable review.  Which 9mm do you think wins in accuracy and reliability?


Really hard to say on the accuracy part, but I will say the JRC is better to use with optics. With its AR design an optic fits perfectly and is seamless in use. With the PCC optics ride a little too high on the supplied picatiny rail, making it somewhat awkward to use. I took mine off and just use the iron peep sight, it is a good military design and robust.

Both have been reliable, but I have to give the edge to the PCC since Ive not had any type of failure with it. Not to say that Ive had many with the JRC, but a few failures to feed when it was new.

Should say that I have used all types of Glock mags in both, from 15 round G19 mags to aftermarket 17 round magpul to 33 round Korean made mags. Both guns show no preference and run with them all.

What I love about the PCC is cost, simplicity, ease of use, how robust it is and the easy barrel takedown.

With the JRC its the AR design, so easy to customize and handle, the one negative is as far as parts and internal design it is nothing like a AR and is overly complicated to field strip for cleaning.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> Why? I'd always heard 45 degrees. Sure does work with slingshots and slings.


In a vacuum, without an atmosphere thats true.

We don't live there, we have wind resistance.

Many rules/laws were written for a vacuum (supremely valuable)

Laws, btw no longer exist-because they need to be true for all time and all places.






Best part about a physics class--you are wrong every time by trying to figure it out in your head.

Then try medicine homey!!!

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Kris P Bacon (11-14-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

I see, the variables.

I keenly remember the day I had high ground and a following wind and a very fine, slingstone of maybe two to three ounce? It sailed like forever, every bit of 150 yards and that's a "pulling the punch" estimate.

It was 45 degree, more or less.

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## Kris P Bacon

> In a vacuum, without an atmosphere thats true.
> 
> We don't live there, we have wind resistance.
> 
> Many rules/laws were written for a vacuum (supremely valuable)
> 
> Laws, btw no longer exist-because they need to be true for all time and all places.
> 
> 
> ...


OK, I watched that whole video, that's just...disturbing!

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## US Conservative

> I see, the variables.
> 
> I keenly remember the day I had high ground and a following wind and a very fine, slingstone of maybe two to three ounce? It sailed like forever, every bit of 150 yards and that's a "pulling the punch" estimate.
> 
> It was 45 degree, more or less.


I don't doubt it.

Check out our military firing heavy guns...

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Kris P Bacon (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> OK, I watched that whole video, that's just...disturbing!


Lol I know.  Came out my senior year in HS, late 90's.  Catchy damn song though.

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## US Conservative

> I see, the variables.
> 
> I keenly remember the day I had high ground and a following wind and a very fine, slingstone of maybe two to three ounce? It sailed like forever, every bit of 150 yards and that's a "pulling the punch" estimate.
> 
> It was 45 degree, more or less.


Simple misunderstanding-the vacuum space answer is 45.


Accounting for atmospherics its 30-35 degrees.

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Kris P Bacon (11-14-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> Lol I know.  Came out my senior year in HS, late 90's.  Catchy damn song though.


Fun fact, I grew up miles away and seen the monkeys a few times, for brevity, I link explains them quicker...
*These wild monkeys thrive in Florida—and carry a deadly virus*


https://www.nationalgeographic.com › animals › 2018/11 › florida-rhesus-...



Nov 9, 2018 - Wildlife managers in Florida say they want to remove roaming *monkeys*, like this one on the *Silver River*, from Silver Spring State Park in light of ...


*Silver River (Florida) - Wikipedia*


https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Silver_River_(Florida)



The *Silver River* is a short spring-fed river located east of Ocala in Marion County, Florida. ... Rhesus *monkeys* were released at Silver Springs in the 1930s, and became feral; they remain present along the river's run and can be seen when ...*State*‎: ‎Florida
*County*‎: ‎Marion

*Source*‎: ‎Silver Springs
*Length*‎: ‎4.5 mi (7.2 km)


‎Geography and hydrology · ‎Ecology · ‎History and recreation · ‎Re

http://thepoliticsforums.com/members/740-Dr-Felix-Birdbiter  can tell you

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jirqoadai (11-14-2019),US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## US Conservative

> Fun fact, I grew up miles away and seen the monkeys a few times, for brevity, I link explains them quicker...
> *These wild monkeys thrive in Florida—and carry a deadly virus*
> 
> 
> https://www.nationalgeographic.com › animals › 2018/11 › florida-rhesus-...
> 
> 
> 
> Nov 9, 2018 - Wildlife managers in Florida say they want to remove roaming *monkeys*, like this one on the *Silver River*, from Silver Spring State Park in light of ...
> ...


I keep hearing about monkeys in florida with std's.

And crazy big alligators.

Its nuts.

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## Kris P Bacon

> I keep hearing about monkeys in florida with std's.
> 
> And crazy big alligators.
> 
> Its nuts.


These have been common since introduction in the 30's but only along the river (besides some roamers). Monkeys are not common, all over Fl.

Damn dope monkeys are the far more concerning.

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US Conservative (11-14-2019)

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## Wildrose

> Technically a bullet, rock, or large asteroid all fall with the same rate of acceleration until aerodynamic friction balances the acceleration of gravity.
> 
> (I know that you know this, just jabbing you in the ribs... )


Smartass- :Cool20:

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Physics Hunter (11-15-2019)

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## Wildrose

> Yeah I like to see what the limits of all of my gear is.  "If this was all I had...what could I reasonably do with it?".
> 
> I've got to get some flite-control buckshot and some slugs to see how far out I can take them.


I accidntally on purpose once hit a running turkey with a 12g slug ad a measured 230 paces.

The only person more surprised than the two customers that were with me was myself.

We jumped up a huge tom in the middle of a quail and hog hunt and he was running straight away so I thought, "What the heck" and let one fly.

The old federal rifled slugs were ridiculously accurate if you accounted for spin drift which was pretty pronounced.

Hit held true to 250yds for several hogs over the years as well.  Clients used to love to shoot that Olympian.  Finally gave it to a customer of mine as a thank you for helping me out.

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US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> I see, the variables.
> 
> I keenly remember the day I had high ground and a following wind and a very fine, slingstone of maybe two to three ounce? It sailed like forever, every bit of 150 yards and that's a "pulling the punch" estimate.
> 
> It was 45 degree, more or less.


Yeah, the 45 degree thing is an approximation and the shorter range the projectile flies (and denser the projectile is) the closer it is to optimal...

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## Kris P Bacon

> Yeah, the 45 degree thing is an approximation and the shorter range the projectile flies (and denser the projectile is) the closer it is to optimal...


When practicing for accuracy with the sling, I aim at 100ft range and release, just a few degrees above a horizontal, only a couple inches drop, with decent ammo. At 45 degrees, for max distance, just getting the ammo to go close to forwards, is fine. I have hit beer cans @100ft, multiple times, but the two in a row, eludes me...yet. At 100ft, a man sized target, may want to hit the deck.

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US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## US Conservative

> When practicing for accuracy with the sling, I aim at 100ft range and release, just a few degrees above a horizontal, only a couple inches drop, with decent ammo. At 45 degrees, for max distance, just getting the ammo to go close to forwards, is fine. I have hit beer cans @100ft, multiple times, but the two in a row, eludes me...yet. At 100ft, a man sized target, may want to hit the deck.


I wonder how far out a sling-bow would be accurate.

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## Kris P Bacon

OK, I may have told this story before but I think it's new to many.

One morning, I was late to work and it was just before dawn and a heavy fog, so maybe I was speeding. Come around a curve and it was 2 late, hit one of two hogs. I could tell it was bad, but nothing I could do but hurry on to work.

When I got there the game warden was waiting on me...."Mr Bacon, we understand you fled the scene of a swine fatallity and failed to stop and attempt to render aid...

After hanging my guilty head in shame, I asked how he knew, well...turns out the other pig, squealed on me!  :Drumdude:

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Physics Hunter (11-15-2019),US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> I wonder how far out a sling-bow would be accurate.


Personally, I would not attempt beyond 100ft. The more powerful ones, utilize a modified "Bowstring" instead of a pouch and an archers release. I wonder if a slingbow with 50 pound draw weight and 30 inch draw length, is equal to a similar bow? People do take big game with them. 

*The Grizzly Hunt - Chief AJ*https://www.chiefaj.com › the-grizzly-hunt





I *took* a couple of deer with the HFX then a customer Jeff in Utah *took* a ... The Alaska Archery guide lines for hunting *Grizzly Bears* required a 50# draw. ... as the HFX *sling bow* (*slingshot*) that Chief *AJ* uses for Bears and other Big Game.

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## Physics Hunter

> Personally, I would not attempt beyond 100ft. The more powerful ones, utilize a modified "Bowstring" instead of a pouch and an archers release. I wonder if a slingbow with 50 pound draw weight and 30 inch draw length, is equal to a similar bow? People do take big game with them. 
> 
> *The Grizzly Hunt - Chief AJ*
> 
> 
> https://www.chiefaj.com › the-grizzly-hunt
> 
> 
> 
> I *took* a couple of deer with the HFX then a customer Jeff in Utah *took* a ... The Alaska Archery guide lines for hunting *Grizzly Bears* required a 50# draw. ... as the HFX *sling bow* (*slingshot*) that Chief *AJ* uses for Bears and other Big Game.


Last slingbow thingy I tried was a wooden Wham-O back in the 70's.  It was crap.

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## Kris P Bacon

> Last slingbow thingy I tried was a wooden Wham-O back in the 70's.  It was crap.


They are capable weapons, watch and see.

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## Physics Hunter

> OK, I may have told this story before but I think it's new to many.
> 
> One morning, I was late to work and it was just before dawn and a heavy fog, so maybe I was speeding. Come around a curve and it was 2 late, hit one of two hogs. I could tell it was bad, but nothing I could do but hurry on to work.
> 
> When I got there the game warden was waiting on me...."Mr Bacon, we understand you fled the scene of a swine fatallity and failed to stop and attempt to render aid...
> 
> After hanging my guilty head in shame, I asked how he knew, well...turns out the other pig, squealed on me!


That is a horrible joke.  I love it!

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Kris P Bacon (11-15-2019)

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## Physics Hunter

> They are capable weapons, watch and see.


With a wisker biscuit!!  That is a hoot!

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Kris P Bacon (11-15-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> With a wisker biscuit!!  That is a hoot!


That's the German Jeorge Sprave, the absolute king and master engineer of all things rubber powered. Check out the "Slingshot Channel"...slingshot crossbows, machete launchers, etc. In a gun control environment, he is still a deadly man.

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US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## US Conservative

> They are capable weapons, watch and see.


That dude makes some crazy weapons.

Just came across this-Buffalo with a sling bow...

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Kris P Bacon (11-15-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> That is a horrible joke.  I love it!


I credit my Dad, he told me years ago.

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## Kris P Bacon

> That dude makes some crazy weapons.
> 
> Just came across this-Buffalo with a sling bow...


Here is a deadly number, like a ballistic knife in a tiny package

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## Physics Hunter

> That's the German Jeorge Sprave, the absolute king and master engineer of all things rubber powered. Check out the "Slingshot Channel"...slingshot crossbows, machete launchers, etc. In a gun control environment, he is still a deadly man.


Well, that explains the slingbow mention popping up in state hunting laws...

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Kris P Bacon (11-15-2019),US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## US Conservative

> Here is a deadly number, like a ballistic knife in a tiny package


That is super cool.  I though a sling shot was minimalist-this is like a bare bones slingshot.

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Kris P Bacon (11-15-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

> That is super cool.  I though a sling shot was minimalist-this is like a bare bones slingshot.


Now imagine some toxic poison on the tip. I would use yarn for the "tail feathers" and the smallest "catch" possible on the rubber end.

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US Conservative (11-15-2019)

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## US Conservative

Just announced at shot show-a fold up backpacker stock from magpul.  I like it.


announcement-card__image--ruger-pc.jpg
https://magpul.com/shot-2020-announcements#ruger-pc

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## Wildrose

> I like it.  A low power variable optic seems like a good choice.


I'm a big fan of the PCC's.  Bought two of the original PCC's in .40.  These newer models are definitely filling a need in the market as they are an ideal home defense weapon offering much better precision accuracy than you can achieve with a handgun.

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US Conservative (01-18-2020)

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## Wildrose

> I like it.  A low power variable optic seems like a good choice.


 I much prefer them to any of the red dot's or reflex sights.

Never bet your life on a set of batteries in an emergency.

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US Conservative (01-18-2020)

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## Wildrose

> With a wisker biscuit!!  That is a hoot!


This is why Australia outlawed most high powered sling shots long ago.

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