# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  KnockOut Game Spreading, Strangers Targetted for ..fun

## Calypso Jones

and they're dying.  

in Syracuse, St. Louis and New Jersey is sweeping the nation, and it preys upon unsuspecting people walking the streets, anywhere.A recent report from New York-based CBS 2 shed light on the growing trend, displaying unsettling footage of teens participating in this game – which goes by the name ‘Knockout’ – and involves randomly targeting passersby, with the ultimate goal being to knock them out with one punch as they walk by.
One victim shown in the footage was 46-year-old Ralph Santiago of Hoboken, N.J., who was found dead with his neck broken and head lodged between iron fence posts, according to NJ.com.
Video surveillance shows Santiago walking in an alleyway in broad daylight, and just as he’s about to pass a pack of teenagers, one launches the fatal, knockout blow.
And what’s the point?

“For the fun of it,” one teen said in the video.

“They just want to see if you got enough strength to knock somebody out,” said another.

*D.C. has not been spared of this violent trend.
One local woman, who was attacked on 14th Street NW in Columbia Heights on Thursday, tells DCist.com she believes to have been a target of this game, as a group of around eight males on bikes came up behind her, with one hitting her in the head. According to the report, police categorized the attack as “simple assault.”
The woman tells the publication she believes others in the area should be on the lookout for similar types of attacks*

Did you get that...police say it's simple assault.

watch the vid here.   

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/...eading-to-d-c/

and then watch your back...cause no one else will.  Note that the security cameras caught the action.   Security.  right.

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## Calypso Jones

People in this country are dying because of a stupid  game played by ignorant black savages and nobody cares.

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## Roadmaster

> Did you get that...police say it's simple assault.


 If a police officer was hit like this or black person they wouldn't be saying simple assault.

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Calypso Jones (11-16-2013),Gemini (11-20-2013),indago (11-19-2013),lostbeyond (11-16-2013),Rudy2D (11-16-2013)

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## Roadmaster

> People in this country are dying because of a stupid  game played by ignorant black savages and nobody cares.


 The people targeted are going to have to speak up because the media or police won't. It's been time and people need to stop worrying about the media always calling us racist for standing up for our rights. They have people so PC and we should stand up and get noticed for once.

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## Calypso Jones

As with other debauched behavior, the 'kids' and adults do not express condemnation or even that it is wrong or bad or anything....they just state that this is what they do, they do it for this reason, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.   clueless.  soulless.   brainless.  

there's security camera footage. bring these people to justice.

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## Calypso Jones

I'm surprised...no one is going to excoriate my racist attitude?   How about telling me that this is way overblown.

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## fyrenza

They're TURNING folks that weren't "racists"

INTO racists.

And I don't care WHO "threw the punch," 
EVERY animal in the group ought to be going to "the zoo,"
aka ~ jail/prison.

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## Calypso Jones

This really concerns me.   We've all got kids growing up with this.   anyone can be a victim and Law enforcement has been shutting their eyes for DECADES.    Anyone can be a victim. anyone.  the guy said in the video that they would go after a young mother with her children present.   
The one thing I DON"T see is these 'gamers' hitting a black.  It seems that 'whitey' is the target for this game.

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## Calypso Jones

I don't think it is racist to recognize the problem and want IT FIXED.   Is this even America anymore. WILL IT BE America by the time Obama the Choom Prince leaves the White House.  He sticks his nose into other NON NATIONAL situations and This IS NATIONAL and he can't say a thing about it?    If he doesn't then maybe he's okay with it.  Maybe whites deserve this.

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## Roadmaster

Look at the TV shows that will stomp on anyone if they say monkey and not mean race. They will go back 20 years to see if a person ever said anything that might me racist but will pass on people of color doing it right in front or on their show. They dismiss it and liberals act like they don't hear it. To the media it's ok. Don't worry they are targeting Jews now and it's getting noticed by the media.

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## Roadmaster

> They're TURNING folks that weren't "racists"
> 
> INTO racists.
> 
> And I don't care WHO "threw the punch," 
> EVERY animal in the group ought to be going to "the zoo,"
> aka ~ jail/prison.


The media loves this. They would love to see a race war. Yes it is turning people and I have friends that are ashamed to be associated with these animals.

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## lostbeyond

This is a part of social engineering.  This will never be prosecuted.

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## Roadmaster

> This is a part of social engineering.  This will never be prosecuted.


 No they won't it's the white mans fault. The US news rarely even says anything about this. They cover this up.

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lostbeyond (11-16-2013)

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## Calypso Jones

this has been going on since before the 90's and the media and law enforcement ignore it.   They don't want to be called racist themselves.  And it is getting worse.   This president has done more to destroy peaceful race relations.   Those of us can remember when doors were not locked at night.    And even after that changed, there was still a sense of being safe on the street or at the store. That is fast disappearing.    And because the perps are black, nothing is said.     someone is gonna get hurt.  really really bad.  And if that someone is the perp and they happen to be black...and there's a security camera you can damn well bet that the white POTENTIAL victim will be hauled into court and prosecuted.

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## lostbeyond

> this has been going on since before the 90's and the media and law enforcement ignore it.   They don't want to be called racist themselves.  And it is getting worse.   This president has done more to destroy peaceful race relations.   Those of us can remember when doors were not locked at night.    And even after that changed, there was still a sense of being safe on the street or at the store. That is fast disappearing.    And because the perps are black, nothing is said.     someone is gonna get hurt.  really really bad.  And if that someone is the perp and they happen to be black...and there's a security camera you can damn well bet that the white POTENTIAL victim will be hauled into court and prosecuted.


If I observed correctly, white Americans have now segregated to live within their own communities, at most places.  The big US metropolitan population centers used to be white.  Now there is not 1 wwhite living there.  Even the few that still have economic activity, such as NYC are mostly non-white now.  Where will the white Americans go?  And what do they do to avoid the thugs following them?

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## St James

I keep getting the feeling that I didn't move far away enough into the country

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lostbeyond (11-16-2013)

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## Roadmaster

It's getting attention now but the police chief failed to say it's been going on with other groups for a long time and nothing was said.

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## JustPassinThru

> The media loves this. They would love to see a race war. Yes it is turning people and I have friends that are ashamed to be associated with these animals.


Government would love it, too.  It's all part of the plan - believe it.

These semisentient hominoids start beating and killing whites at random.  And the po-leece conveniently turn a blind eye.  Eventually, whites arm up - and start forming their own neighborhood groups.

And the FIRST TIME they try and defend themselves or someone of their neighborhood...the po-leece will be there to to a St. Skittles on them.  Arrest, maybe after shooting, everyone involved.  Charge them with weapons crimes; attempted homicide; "Hate Crimes."  

Go directly to Jail.  Do not pass Go; do not collect $200.  Or expect to survive the ordeal.

The government, and these animals, are waging WAR on law-abiding, responsible citizens!

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## Roadmaster

Yes the time we defend ourselves we will be the enemy. If we don't unite it will keep going.

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## lostbeyond

> It's getting attention now but the police chief *failed to say* it's been going on with other groups for a long time and nothing was said.


That is one of they key words.  The other groups don't matter.  Only those matter that have media power, such as the blacks, the hispanics, and the jews.

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Gemini (11-20-2013)

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## Muninn

A few of these kids need to get blown away by passerby's who are carrying concealed weapons. Maybe a little 2nd Amendment justice will put a stop this trend.

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## lostbeyond

> Yes the time we defend ourselves we will be the enemy. If we don't unite it will keep going.


This could be an interesting mental excercise.  How do we construct a public relations case for our future, when the manufactured "common sense" holds us in the wrong for just trying to exist?

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## Calypso Jones

It might be an interesting exercise to harangue the police department where this happened.  Cards and letters and emails.  let them feel the heat of the publics' ire.

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lostbeyond (11-16-2013)

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## Roadmaster

> This could be an interesting mental excercise.  How do we construct a public relations case for our future, when the manufactured "common sense" holds us in the wrong for just trying to exist?


Instead of facing problems a lot of white people move. They don't gather and insist the police do something either. This is only getting noticed because a group did. We do blame the media and government because they do allow this but we are also to blame.

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## Calypso Jones

well that is the truth.  How can they win.  If they are outnumbered by the scum they know they will face retaliation.   In DC do white victims get any satisfaction.  hell no.     persona non grata.

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## lostbeyond

> Instead of facing problems a lot of white people move. They don't gather and insist the police do something either. This is only getting noticed because a group did. We do blame the media and government because they do allow this but we are also to blame.





> well that is the truth.  How can they win.  If they are outnumbered by the scum they know they will face retaliation.   In DC do white victims get any satisfaction.  hell no.     persona non grata.


I think you all are quite right.  

In Europe, we can observe the next stage of such racial/ethnic conflicts, that start after the moving.  Romania and Bosnia are good examples.  When Hungarians and Bosniaks moved away from their original homelands for the same reason as you point out, the gap was quickly filled in with endless supply of the criminal/semi-criminal foreign street thugs.  The result is that country borders got moved drastically, Romania has now those Hungarian cities, and wars got instigated, the Bosnian war even required American troops to intervene.  

With this process, the US can easily lose the South-West, Los Angleles is already 65 % Latino, to begin with.  

It is indeed a challenge how unification can be achieved between white people before things come to this, considering that we are fully controlled by financial powers that are out of our hands and actively work to disperse us.

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## 007

> and they're dying.  
> 
> in Syracuse, St. Louis and New Jersey is sweeping the nation, and it preys upon unsuspecting people walking the streets, anywhere.A recent report from New York-based CBS 2 shed light on the growing trend, displaying unsettling footage of teens participating in this game  which goes by the name Knockout  and involves randomly targeting passersby, with the ultimate goal being to knock them out with one punch as they walk by.
> One victim shown in the footage was 46-year-old Ralph Santiago of Hoboken, N.J., who was found dead with his neck broken and head lodged between iron fence posts, according to NJ.com.
> Video surveillance shows Santiago walking in an alleyway in broad daylight, and just as hes about to pass a pack of teenagers, one launches the fatal, knockout blow.
> And whats the point?
> 
> For the fun of it, one teen said in the video.
> 
> ...


Point to note;- one punch can kill.

punches are deadly force.

Your reaction, under law can include meeting such force with equal force.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Did you get that...police say it's simple assault.
> 
> watch the vid here.   
> 
> http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/...eading-to-d-c/
> 
> and then watch your back...cause no one else will.  Note that the security cameras caught the action.   Security.  right.


What would you like to call it?  Attempted murder?  Felony assault?   If we start categorizing punching someone as felony casualty, that's going to end up putting a lot of bar patrons in jail. 

The penalty for "simple assualt" in D.C. is $1000 and/or up to 180 days in jail.  Obviously that is just the person who threw the punch.  I think any of his friends who advocated the assault should also be charged and found guilty of a crime.

http://koehlerlaw.net/assault-theft/simple-assault/




> People in this country are dying because of a stupid game played by ignorant *black savages* and nobody cares.


CBS cares.   Why else do you think they ran the report?



Can only blacks be savages, @Calypso Jones?

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## Max Rockatansky

Never bring a stun gun to a gun fight.

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/..._out_brut.html



> The game was called "point 'em out, knock 'em out," and it was as random as it was brutal.
> 
> The object: Target an innocent victim for no other reason than they are there, then sucker punch him or her.
> 
> But on this day in Lansing, there would be no punch. The teen-age attacker had a stun gun. He did not know his would-be victim was carrying a legally concealed pistol.
> 
> The teen lost the game.
> 
> Last month, more than 400,000 adults could lawfully carry hidden handguns in Michigan. Thats one in 17 men and women 21 or older, more than since records have been kept.
> ...

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## 007

The kids involved in these deadly assaults, if not killed by their intended victims, should be charged with attempted murder.
If the punch thrower is killed by his intended victim, his accomplices should be charged with his murder.

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Calypso Jones (11-17-2013)

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## Calypso Jones

> The kids involved in these deadly assaults, if not killed by their intended victims, should be charged with attempted murder.
> If the punch thrower is killed by his intended victim, his accomplices should be charged with his murder.


I like that.    This 'game' is spreading, innocent people are being hurt and some killed, some marked for life. It is not right.    

By the way @Max Rockatansky.   That story was a topic earlier this year at this very board.

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...white+violence

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## Katzndogz

The people who commit these kinds of attacks believe they have a right to do so.  Not just a right, but a right under the Constitution to pursue "happiness".  They do it because it's fun.  They are predators and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it without a direct attack on the culture that has created this right.

One of the reasons I got out of criminal law and into something else 20 years ago was that I saw the beginnings of the perception of these kinds of rights.  There is a right to steal if someone else has something the criminal wants.   There is a right to murder if it brings the killer pleasure.  There is a right to rape if the rapist is unfairly denied affection.   Changing course now will be near to impossible.    Black people really believe that they have the ultimate right of revenge.  We gave it to them.  We explained and rationalized every objection away.

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## Katzndogz

> I like that.    This 'game' is spreading, innocent people are being hurt and some killed, some marked for life. It is not right.    
> 
> By the way @Max Rockatansky.   That story was a topic earlier this year at this very board.
> 
> http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...white+violence


Part of the game is an unexpected attack like the woman who was hit from behind.   Yes, if the victim knows they should fight back or some armed bystander should be able and willing to end the attack by any means possible.  

Calypso, you might remember when I asked this question "Are you ready to kill a child?"   Yet, the widespread culling of these violent children might by the only way these practices can be stopped.

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## Calypso Jones

and the ones that get caught, if they get caught and are convicted, when they go to prison, they are innocent.

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## Katzndogz

> and the ones that get caught, if they get caught and are convicted, when they go to prison, they are innocent.


Of course they're innocent.  They did nothing wrong.  They were just having fun and evil racists spoiled it and punished them for exercising their constitutional rights.

There's this

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/1...-social-media/

justified by this

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...#ixzz2kp1wIMph
During an interview with the BBC Friday, she not only said that President Obama is treated with disrespect because he’s black, but also that entire generations of racists are going to have to die for racism to end 

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...#ixzz2kvGvtsbl

Not only is assaulting people fun, but they are performing a public service by doing so.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Part of the game is an unexpected attack like the woman who was hit from behind.   Yes, if the victim knows they should fight back or some armed bystander should be able and willing to end the attack by any means possible.  
> 
> Calypso, you might remember when I asked this question "Are you ready to kill a child?"   Yet, the widespread culling of these violent children might by the only way these practices can be stopped.


That's exactly what the Rio De Janeiro police do.  Death Squads executing groups of young boys.  We, too, can act like a Third World country.   :Headbang: 

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-07-...1_death-squads



> Hundreds of deprived and delinquent Brazilian minors are killed every year.According to people who monitor the situation, an alarming number of youngsters are killed by "extermination groups"--death squads bent on cleaning up crime-plagued areas.
> 
> Death squads have been at work for years in Brazil, but concern has risen in the past year because of the number of youngsters being killed, not only in Rio but also in other urban areas, including Sao Paulo and Recife.


http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articl...adolescents-in



> his disturbing investigation of four Brazilian states (Rio de Janeiro, So Paulo, Pernambuco, and Esprito Santo) details a consistent pattern of vigilante killings of street children, often committed by death squads composed of off-duty policemen. Even though the international attention that followed the blatant murder of eight homeless teenagers outside the famous Candelaria church in Rio in July 1993 brought some improvement in the central government response, the high level of urban insecurity and the inadequacy of the judicial system and police continues to provide the perpetrators with the cover of popular acquiescence and even approval.
> 
> Final Justice, the title Human Rights Watch has chosen for its report, is the name of a death squad headed by a former military policeman that operates in the state of Rio de Janeiro. It is also the name given in Brazil to a popular American television show (Equal Justice). In the series a judge is forced to release suspects on technicalities but enforces justice with his own hands. A recent poll by Rio policemen found that the series protagonist ranked only behind Charles Bronson as a favorite hero. It is a sad indication of the intransigence of the problem, growing as it does from the grotesque social inequities of Brazilian society and disregard for the underprivileged, that a poll among Rios middle-class population is unlikely to show different results.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8137721.stm



> The arrests were requested after an investigation into the deaths of 20 men and teenagers.All of them were killed during police operations which were meant to be targeting crime.
> 
> One public prosecutor said the evidence pointed to activity that was typical of a "death squad".
> 
> *Forensic tests*
> Brazil's TV Globo described the request for the arrest of so many police officers as "unprecedented", but whether the case goes ahead will have to be decided by the judiciary.
> 
> All of the deaths involved so called "acts of resistance" a term used by police in Rio de Janeiro to describe the killing of suspects during an armed confrontation.
> 
> ...

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## Calypso Jones

I don't want innocent people, particularly children to die anywhere, anyway. And that is why I would willing kill a fourteen year old* predator bent on taking me or any family member of mine...even a stranger....OUT.   

*or any age.

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## Muninn

> and the ones that get caught, if they get caught and are convicted, when they go to prison, they are innocent.


That's bullshit. "Innocent" means that you did not do what the prosecution accused you of doing, or what you were convicted of. These kids can't claim that.

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## fyrenza

> Part of the game is an unexpected attack like the woman who was hit from behind.   Yes, if the victim knows they should fight back or some armed bystander should be able and willing to end the attack by any means possible.  
> 
> Calypso, you might remember when I asked this question "Are you ready to kill a child?"   Yet, the widespread culling of these violent children might by the only way these practices can be stopped.


Putting them down, like rabid dogs, sounds so cold,

but it would be righteous killing, for the protection of the rest of us/US, imho.

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## The XL

These kids are fucking idiot criminals, but this is not a common occurrence.  It's the media stirring the pot.

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## fyrenza

Stirring the pot, by NOT alerting anyone?

It's getting worse,

and, if you watched the vid, is considered _common place_ freakin' "_antics_."

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## Calypso Jones

> That's bullshit. "Innocent" means that you did not do what the prosecution accused you of doing, or what you were convicted of. These kids can't claim that.


I know that.  I'm saying the media and Hollywood slebs behave as if they are innocent and jailed because of a corrupt system.  How many murderers/rapists/child molesters have been let out to do the same thing to the public over and over till someone kills them.    You know it's  a lot, Elmer Pratt, OJ, Angela Davis, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn, various and sundry nameless that have raped and murdered again.

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## Calypso Jones

> These kids are fucking idiot criminals, but this is not a common occurrence.  It's the media stirring the pot.


It is a common occurrence.  The media does not let people know.   Law enforcement keeps THEIR mouths shut.  It reported as Friday nite news dump or on the inside pages or is left alone on national news.  It's considered a local matter. Problem is it's in too many LOCALS.

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## Calypso Jones

I don't want to kill anyone....but My family, friends, any stranger and myself have more of a right to live than anyone who goes around targeting unsuspecting pedestrians.

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## Max Rockatansky

> These kids are fucking idiot criminals, but this is not a common occurrence.  It's the media stirring the pot.


The "media" isn't pot stirring, they're just selling a product.  If nobody buys, then they'll look for something else to sell.  If tales of riots, rapes and rampage sell, that's what they'll keep selling.

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Gemini (11-20-2013)

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## Muninn

> I know that.  I'm saying the media and Hollywood slebs behave as if they are innocent and jailed because of a corrupt system.  How many murderers/rapists/child molesters have been let out to do the same thing to the public over and over till someone kills them.    You know it's  a lot, Elmer Pratt, OJ, Angela Davis, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn, various and sundry nameless that have raped and murdered again.


It just pisses me off because I was convicted of a crimeI didn't do. Had to pay $2,000 to put the fiasco behind me. No jail time or anything, but I'll never forget the way I was laughed at by the cops and just about everyone else in the system when I tried to say I was innocent. There are innocent people convicted of crimes every single day

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## The XL

> The "media" isn't pot stirring, they're just selling a product.  If nobody buys, then they'll look for something else to sell.  If tales of riots, rapes and rampage sell, that's what they'll keep selling.


Regardless of whether that is the case or not, they're still stirring the pot, regardless of what the motive is.

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## The XL

> It is a common occurrence.  The media does not let people know.   Law enforcement keeps THEIR mouths shut.  It reported as Friday nite news dump or on the inside pages or is left alone on national news.  It's considered a local matter. Problem is it's in too many LOCALS.


Their is absolutely nothing concrete that suggests that this is a common occurrence.

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## The XL

> Stirring the pot, by NOT alerting anyone?
> 
> It's getting worse,
> 
> and, if you watched the vid, is considered _common place_ freakin' "_antics_."


The stats don't reflect this being commonplace.

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## Max Rockatansky

> It just pisses me off because I was convicted of a crimeI didn't do. Had to pay $2,000 to put the fiasco behind me. No jail time or anything, but I'll never forget the way I was laughed at by the cops and just about everyone else in the system when I tried to say I was innocent. There are innocent people convicted of crimes every single day


Completely innocent?  

That does happen, but without more details, it's impossible to know.   It's highly probable we've executed innocent people.   It's not unlikely "We, the People" have also convicted a few innocents too.

OTOH, overall the system seems to work.  I've been convicted of a few traffic violations.  While I thought the penalty was harsh, I can't say I was innocent of the violation.

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## fyrenza

> The stats don't reflect this being commonplace.


It was the way the folks in the vid referred to it ~ as though it's happening, 
they know it's happening, 
and then they giggle about it,

like it's No Big Thang.

People are DYING over it ~ 
JUST the "known" incidents that were cited were horrifying enough,

but we are not getting the "whole story," because it IS being localized, and swept under the carpet.

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## Muninn

> Completely innocent?  
> 
> That does happen, but without more details, it's impossible to know.   It's highly probable we've executed innocent people.   It's not unlikely "We, the People" have also convicted a few innocents too.
> 
> OTOH, overall the system seems to work.  I've been convicted of a few traffic violations.  While I thought the penalty was harsh, I can't say I was innocent of the violation.


Yes, completely innocent. As in I-was-at-work-at-the-time-you-say-this-happened-and-have-the-timecard-to-prove-it kind of innocent. Happens every day, hence my disdain for the legal system. The way the laws are written and the way juries are instructed skews the system vastly toward convictions. You'd be surprised how little it takes to convict, and how much it takes to prove innocence.

The system does not "work". The system is broken. It's a failure in the deepest sense. But believe what you want. My existence was certainly more happy before I found out the truth too.

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## Calypso Jones

The System works.  it's the judges, DAs and attorneys that do not.

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## Calypso Jones

and people have no regard for the truth. They will put their hand on the bible if it is even offered and then lie their eyeballs out.

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## The XL

> It was the way the folks in the vid referred to it ~ as though it's happening, 
> they know it's happening, 
> and then they giggle about it,
> 
> like it's No Big Thang.
> 
> People are DYING over it ~ 
> JUST the "known" incidents that were cited were horrifying enough,
> 
> but we are not getting the "whole story," because it IS being localized, and swept under the carpet.


If someone can prove that this is a huge epidemic, I'll agree that it's a big problem.

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## fyrenza

I'm sorry to use this analogy, because many take it be some racist slam, but it's a truth :

If you heard about packs of rabid wolves roaming ANY city streets,
attacking, maiming and, in some instances, KILLING people,

you'd damned sure want to know if it was happening, Nationwide,

because that would signify a trend,
and something that viciously offensive,

you'd want to STOP, in it's tracks,

NOT try to understand the underlying/problematic causation(s).

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## Muninn

> The System works.  it's the judges, DAs and attorneys that do not.


Same difference.

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## fyrenza

> Their is absolutely nothing concrete that suggests that this is a common occurrence.


And there's no concrete evidence that it isn't.  

THAT's the problem that MUST be addressed,
before *anyone* 
pulls up their skirts and runs, screaming, "DOOM!  AND GLOOM!"
or just kicks back and says, "No biggie."

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## Max Rockatansky

> Yes, completely innocent. As in I-was-at-work-at-the-time-you-say-this-happened-and-have-the-timecard-to-prove-it kind of innocent. Happens every day, hence my disdain for the legal system. The way the laws are written and the way juries are instructed skews the system vastly toward convictions. You'd be surprised how little it takes to convict, and how much it takes to prove innocence.
> 
> The system does not "work". The system is broken. It's a failure in the deepest sense. But believe what you want. My existence was certainly more happy before I found out the truth too.


Although costly if innocent, $2000 is pretty cheap to be guilty and have someone else punch your time card.  When I punched one as a kid, it wasn't unusual for someone to ask me to either punch theirs or me ask them punch mine if I was running late.

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## fyrenza

I live in the country, FAR removed from what passes for civilization, these days,

and it absolutely *HORRIFIES* me to think that the cities are turning into war zones,

but the news of the war is being heard, even way out here in the middle of nowhere.

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## Max Rockatansky

> I live in the country, FAR removed from what passes for civilization, these days,
> 
> and it absolutely *HORRIFIES* me to think that the cities are turning into war zones,
> 
> but the news of the war is being heard, even way out here in the middle of nowhere.


Yeah.  If only they'd be more open about Concealed Carry and Open Carry, maybe a lot of the criminal activity in cities would stop.  

Sure a few innocent people might get shot, but I expect a whole lot of guilty ones would be shot too.

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## fyrenza

The only way innocent people get shot is when everyone has to be suspicious of everyone else, 
because no one knows wtf is going on, imho.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The only way innocent people get shot is when everyone has to be suspicious of everyone else, 
> because no one knows wtf is going on, imho.


In war there is often death from "friendly fire".  Innocent people can be caught in the cross-fire, catch a stray bullet or simply be mistaken for a bad guy.  

Shit happens.

----------

fyrenza (11-17-2013)

----------


## fyrenza

Oh, yeah...

----------


## MisterVeritis

> and they're dying.  
> 
> in Syracuse, St. Louis and New Jersey is sweeping the nation, and it preys upon unsuspecting people walking the streets, anywhere.A recent report from New York-based CBS 2 shed light on the growing trend, displaying unsettling footage of teens participating in this game  which goes by the name Knockout  and involves randomly targeting passersby, with the ultimate goal being to knock them out with one punch as they walk by.
> One victim shown in the footage was 46-year-old Ralph Santiago of Hoboken, N.J., who was found dead with his neck broken and head lodged between iron fence posts, according to NJ.com.
> Video surveillance shows Santiago walking in an alleyway in broad daylight, and just as hes about to pass a pack of teenagers, one launches the fatal, knockout blow.
> And whats the point?
> 
> For the fun of it, one teen said in the video.
> 
> ...


Arm up. And shoot to kill.

----------


## MisterVeritis

> In war there is often death from "friendly fire".  Innocent people can be caught in the cross-fire, catch a stray bullet or simply be mistaken for a bad guy.  
> 
> Shit happens.


Americide, a study of world war two friendly fire deaths place the number as high as 25%. With blue force tracking that number has come so far down that friendly fire deaths make the news.

----------


## fyrenza

> Arm up. And shoot to kill.


ummm ...  Perhaps some NRA-branded garb,

maybe a noticeable bulge or two,

would do the trick?

To me?  NOT having to blast folks is The Big Idea.

I'm a sort of a :




type of person.

----------


## Calypso Jones

what concerns me are the number of security cameras around.   In the Initial posting, a camera caught the group  as the one strikes out and hits the teachers knocking him cold.      That guy was foolish.  He knows what kind of kids he's teaching.  Surely he knew what packs of blacks were doing and that this group could potentially be one of those groups.  And yet he just kept walking, didn't alter his path one little bit.   Foolhardy...very foolhardy.  I wonder if he survived.

----------


## Calypso Jones

Ralph Santiago's killers have been found and arrested....13 and 14 year olds.  3 of them.

http://www.ohnewsday.com/national/13...-knockout.html

----------


## Katzndogz

> The System works.  it's the judges, DAs and attorneys that do not.



No the system doesn't work.   It's the system, the entire social system that created this and made monsters our of these people, these children.  It's movies, their cultural music, the fake history of black people that was permitted to be created and taught.  It is the entire concept of being owed and the continuity of historical wrongs.  It's the justification for payback and revenge.  The white man be keeping the brothers down, that's what they hear, day in, day out.  They hear it from black leaders AND white leaders.  They see it in the movies and on television, they hear it on the radio.  The criminals believe it, then the judges, DAs and attorneys believe it.  Sometimes, sad to say, disgusting to say, sometimes the victims believe it too.

I was listening to someone, a white guy, explaining this case quite patiently as if he was telling a particularly dim group of five year olds why it is the way it is.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...e-store-owner/

Zhen Dan Guo should excuse the savage beating he got because it was just payback for 250 years of black suffering.   The beating was deserved.   Mr. Guo probably came here a few years ago and managed to scrape up the money to open this store and actually try to do business with people who think he should give them whatever they want because they are owed. The store owner is evil, he takes their money.  He's a businessman.  It's okay to steal because he makes a profit off the working black people.   That's the system.

----------


## Muninn

> Although costly if innocent, $2000 is pretty cheap to be guilty and have someone else punch your time card.  When I punched one as a kid, it wasn't unusual for someone to ask me to either punch theirs or me ask them punch mine if I was running late.


See what I mean? This is how innocent people get fucked over, because not only is the legal system skewed toward convictions, but the average person's psyche is skewed toward suspicion and assuming the worst. Let me guess, that person in the defendant's chair is always guilty, huh? I mean, they _had_ to have done _something_ to have suspicion cast upon them, right?

Give me a fucking break.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> See what I mean? This is how innocent people get fucked over, because not only is the legal system skewed toward convictions, but the average person's psyche is skewed toward suspicion and assuming the worst. Let me guess, that person in the defendant's chair is always guilty, huh? I mean, they _had_ to have done _something_ to have suspicion cast upon them, right?
> 
> Give me a fucking break.


Okay, I'll give you break;  all you have to do is relate the details of your travesty of justice and let others decide if you were culpable or not.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Ralph Santiago's killers have been found and arrested....13 and 14 year olds. 3 of them.
> 
> http://www.ohnewsday.com/national/13...-knockout.html


Were they summarily executed and dumped in a land fill? 




> what concerns me are the number of security cameras around.   In the Initial posting, a camera caught the group  as the one strikes out and hits the teachers knocking him cold.      That guy was foolish.  He knows what kind of kids he's teaching.  Surely he knew what packs of blacks were doing and that this group could potentially be one of those groups.  And yet he just kept walking, didn't alter his path one little bit.   Foolhardy...very foolhardy.  I wonder if he survived.


I have no problem with public security cameras.  As this situation reveals, they do serve a good purpose.  When those kids go on trial, the jury should be left with little doubt that the assault was unprovoked and viciously applied.

Agreed the guy was foolish.  People need to maintain awareness of their surroundings, even in a Blue city.   In fact, especially in a Blue city.

----------


## Brewski

> I keep getting the feeling that I didn't move far away enough into the country


Just wait until Obama enacts his plan to redistribute the inner city riff-raff under the guise of helping spread "diversity".  Enjoy those white areas while they last, folks.

----------


## Brewski

> They're TURNING folks that weren't "racists"
> 
> INTO racists.
> 
> And I don't care WHO "threw the punch," 
> EVERY animal in the group ought to be going to "the zoo,"
> aka ~ jail/prison.


It's amazing how experience will do that.  I wonder how many of the forum's anti-racists grew up in minority majority areas like I did?  It's easy to like diversity from the safety and comfort of your white suburb.

----------


## Katzndogz

Security cameras will help identify murderers after someone has been killed.    Then the "children" will be dealt with as children and continue their murders after they undergo counseling, or while they are undergoing counseling.  It makes no difference.

----------


## Katzndogz

> See what I mean? This is how innocent people get fucked over, because not only is the legal system skewed toward convictions, but the average person's psyche is skewed toward suspicion and assuming the worst. Let me guess, that person in the defendant's chair is always guilty, huh? I mean, they _had_ to have done _something_ to have suspicion cast upon them, right?
> 
> Give me a fucking break.


In reality, true.  Most people in the defendant's chair really are guilty.   We hear about those one or two that are innocent, usually convicted by a liar, and imagine those are the majority.  Sad to say, no.  Most people in the defendant's chair have done much worse.   They are on trial for a criminal act, one criminal act.   By the time they get to the defendant's chair, they might have 100 or more similar acts under their belt.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Security cameras will help identify murderers after someone has been killed.    Then the "children" will be dealt with as children and continue their murders after they undergo counseling, or while they are undergoing counseling.  It makes no difference.


Would you rather not have the security cameras?

With one exception, these are assaults, not murders, but I do enjoy your consistency in blowing things out of proportion.

----------


## Katzndogz

> Would you rather not have the security cameras?
> 
> With one exception, these are assaults, not murders, but I do enjoy your consistency in blowing things out of proportion.



Personally I'd rather not have the security camera.

----------



----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Personally I'd rather not have the security camera.


Why?

----------


## Muninn

> In reality, true.  Most people in the defendant's chair really are guilty.   We hear about those one or two that are innocent, usually convicted by a liar, and imagine those are the majority.  Sad to say, no.  Most people in the defendant's chair have done much worse.   They are on trial for a criminal act, one criminal act.   By the time they get to the defendant's chair, they might have 100 or more similar acts under their belt.


That is flat out horseshit, and thanks again for confirming why the American justice system routinely destroys the lives of innocent citizens. I really hope you never sit in a defendant's chair, and face the kind of logic you just displayed.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> That is flat out horseshit, and thanks again for confirming why the American justice system routinely destroys the lives of innocent citizens. I really hope you never sit in a defendant's chair, and face the kind of logic you just displayed.


Being judged by twelve fellow citizens, destroys lives?

How should it be done?  By decree of the same sort of elites which are managing our public finances and, now our healthcare?  You want THEM judging you?

Should it be done by color chip?  By a coin toss?

Our system is far from perfect; but it is THE most perfect system found in any past or present civilization.

----------

Calypso Jones (11-18-2013),usfan (11-19-2013)

----------


## MisterVeritis

> No the system doesn't work.   It's the system, the entire social system that created this and made monsters our of these people, these children.  It's movies, their cultural music, the fake history of black people that was permitted to be created and taught.  It is the entire concept of being owed and the continuity of historical wrongs.  It's the justification for payback and revenge.  The white man be keeping the brothers down, that's what they hear, day in, day out.  They hear it from black leaders AND white leaders.  They see it in the movies and on television, they hear it on the radio.  The criminals believe it, then the judges, DAs and attorneys believe it.  Sometimes, sad to say, disgusting to say, sometimes the victims believe it too.
> 
> I was listening to someone, a white guy, explaining this case quite patiently as if he was telling a particularly dim group of five year olds why it is the way it is.
> 
> http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/...e-store-owner/
> 
> Zhen Dan Guo should excuse the savage beating he got because it was just payback for 250 years of black suffering.   The beating was deserved.   Mr. Guo probably came here a few years ago and managed to scrape up the money to open this store and actually try to do business with people who think he should give them whatever they want because they are owed. The store owner is evil, he takes their money.  He's a businessman.  It's okay to steal because he makes a profit off the working black people.   That's the system.


Arm up. And shoot to kill. If every attacked person kills just one of these monsters the problem will disappear as quickly as it appeared. Let's just call it abortion up to age 18.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Arm up. And shoot to kill. If every attacked person kills just one of these monsters the problem will disappear as quickly as it appeared. Let's just call it abortion up to age 18.


 Problem is most do this where guns are illegal. Then many liberals will say people are taking the law into our hands and blame us. Be prepared for the backlash also. Some don't think you have a right to defend yourself but if people don't do something that  gets attention it won't stop.

----------


## MisterVeritis

> Problem is most do this where guns are illegal. Then many liberals will say people are taking the law into our hands and blame us. Be prepared for the backlash also. Some don't think you have a right to defend yourself but if people don't do something that  gets attention it won't stop.


Therefore what? 

Arm up. And shoot to kill. The problem will stop. And we can take care of the pissant politicians next. First let's rid ourselves of the little monsters.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Therefore what? 
> 
> Arm up. And shoot to kill. The problem will stop. And we can take care of the pissant politicians next. First let's rid ourselves of the little monsters.


 I agree but do you think they will. Nothing has been done yet and claiming this is only simple assault just fuels this.

----------


## indago

> I keep getting the feeling that I didn't move far away enough into the country


Paul Kersey:  "What about the old American social custom of self-defence?  If the police don't defend us, maybe we ought to do it ourselves."

Jack:  "We're not pioneers anymore, Dad."

Paul Kersey:  "What are we, Jack?"

Jack:  "What do you mean?"

Paul Kersey:  "I mean, if we're not pioneers, what have we become?  What do you call people who, when faced with a condition of fear, do nothing about it? They just run and hide."

Jack:  "Civilised?"


From *DEATH WISH

*

----------


## indago

> Problem is most do this where guns are illegal. Then many liberals will say people are taking the law into our hands and blame us. Be prepared for the backlash also. Some don't think you have a right to defend yourself but if people don't do something that  gets attention it won't stop.


A rather *CATCH 22* situation...

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I agree but do you think they will. Nothing has been done yet and claiming this is only simple assault just fuels this.


What do you think we should call it when a person punches another person?   Attempted murder?   Be careful what you ask for.  Libs just looooove to pass laws like that.

As it is,  if cities had a few more people like Bernhard Goetz, perhaps this problem would diminish.

----------


## Katzndogz

> That is flat out horseshit, and thanks again for confirming why the American justice system routinely destroys the lives of innocent citizens. I really hope you never sit in a defendant's chair, and face the kind of logic you just displayed.



I was a criminal defense attorney for many many years.  I know who sits in that chair and I know what they did.  By the time they get to that chair, a criminal may have committed upwards of 100 other crimes.

----------


## Katzndogz

> Why?


I'm not like you.  I'm not a nice person.  Unless I was knocked completely unconscious, I would rather there be no cameras to record what I would be doing to that "child".

----------


## Muninn

> Being judged by twelve fellow citizens, destroys lives?


Yes it does. Because judges have to explain to people what the hell _innocent until proven guilty means_. People hold up the jury aspect and like to pretend that somehow makes it an infallible system but look at the average fucking American. Do you really want American Idol Nation being the judge of your future? I don't. Because most every day people are clueless about the system, how it's supposed to work and how to handle cases. All you have to do is appeal to their emotions the best and you win the case. 

Just look at the attitudes expressed here. There is a definite skew against the defendants expressed right here. If you all were on a jury, it would be easy as fuck to convict someone on faulty evidence, because you're already leaning against the defendant as having done _something_ to cast suspicion on himself. 

And guess what? 90% of cases never see a jury, so even if you were right you'd still be wrong. Most people cop a plea, because it's cheaper, easier and safer. Even if they're innocent. Because a lot of times defending your honor is more expensive and risky than it's worth. This isn't a movie, where the truth wins out in the end. There's no cop out there following hunches that will eventually lead to your exoneration. 

Going to trial _is_ a flip of the coin. It's 50-50, no matter how good your evidence is. Call a defense attorney right. Call several. See if they don't tell you that.

----------


## JustPassinThru

Who would you have judge you, then?

----------


## Muninn

> I was a criminal defense attorney for many many years.  I know who sits in that chair and I know what they did.  By the time they get to that chair, a criminal may have committed upwards of 100 other crimes.


That doesn't really matter, now does it? All that matters is if he's guilty of _this_ crime. Jesus, did I just have to explain that to someone claiming to be an attorney? 

How many of your clients were innocent?

And how many times did you advise your clients to take a plea even if they were innocent? 

For example, if a client professed his innocence yet the prosecution was offering a plea deal of no jail time, just a year of probation plus court costs and restitution, dropping down two felonies to two misdemeanors, would you advise him to take the deal? The witness is dead set that she saw him scratch the cars, but he has a time card showing he was at work. His word vs. her's. Should he take the deal? 

Also, is it true that going to trial is a risk, no matter how good your evidence is?

----------


## Muninn

> Who would you have judge you, then?


I'd rather have a system that does not require cops to have arrest quotas and rewards good police work instead of convictions. If that were the case, cops would be more careful about who comes to court in the first place. As it is now, the attitude is to just toss as many charges on someone and see what you can get to stick. 

And who would I rather have judge me? An unbiased jury, but that is impossible

----------


## JustPassinThru

> I'd rather have a system that does not require cops to have arrest quotas and rewards good police work instead of convictions. If that were the case, cops would be more careful about who comes to court in the first place. As it is now, the attitude is to just toss as many charges on someone and see what you can get to stick. 
> 
> And who would I rather have judge me? An unbiased jury, but that is impossible


Yes.  So we have the next best thing.

"Arrest quotas" are merely for speeding and parking infractions and are illegal in most states - ergo, they're informal.  The supervisors lean on cops who don't write as many as other officers do.  It's a result of traffic-tickets being lucrative - and also of the Federal Government formerly demanding that each state show enforcement of the 55-mph speed limit.

Police departments are bureaucracies; and as the law gets more complicated, the police get more legalistic.  The answer here is not anarchy but streamlining and local control of the cops. 

Even today, a medium-sized town can demand its police chief get sacked.  Try doing that with a rogue FBI agent or district manager.

----------


## Katzndogz

> That doesn't really matter, now does it? All that matters is if he's guilty of _this_ crime. Jesus, did I just have to explain that to someone claiming to be an attorney? 
> 
> How many of your clients were innocent?
> 
> And how many times did you advise your clients to take a plea even if they were innocent? 
> 
> For example, if a client professed his innocence yet the prosecution was offering a plea deal of no jail time, just a year of probation plus court costs and restitution, dropping down two felonies to two misdemeanors, would you advise him to take the deal? The witness is dead set that she saw him scratch the cars, but he has a time card showing he was at work. Should he take the deal? 
> 
> Also, is it true that going to trial is a risk, no matter how good your evidence is?


Some of my clients were innocent of the particular crime that eventually got them convicted.   They might have had a string of crimes under their belt and plead out many more.   Most of the innocent clients were black men.  Why?  Why will an innocent black man go to prison when a white guy who might be guilty walk out the door.

Black me are most likely NOT to cooperate with their lawyer.   They might not want to use a real defense, but instead rely on something novel like urban rage or my great great granddaddy was a slave and I'm entitled to a little payback.  Family and friends won't tell the truth, instead the accused is a real neighborhood badass.   During trial, they might lunge at the witnesses, glare at the jury, laugh, throw gang signs at the audience, have some threatening outburst, scream at the judge.    By the time the innocent black man is done, the jury no longer cares whether he's guilty of the crime or not.  They just want to see him put away.

A white guy will be quiet, respectful, say yes sir, no sir, be sympathetic to the witness, smile at the jury and walk out guilty as hell.

How many times did I advise someone to take a guilty plea?   Many times.  When I know that this person does not have a chance in hell of passing a jury sniff test, they are better off taking a plea to a lesser charge.  Do I feel bad about it?  No.   After taking a look at the defendant's rap sheet and how many times he got away with the same or similar crimes the streets are better off with him on vacation for a little while.

A few years ago I was the victim of a violent carjacking.  It was at 3:00 pm on a Sunday afternoon.  I went to the grocery store to get kitty litter.  He was in the parking lot and targeted me because I looked vulnerable.   He put a gun to my head, but I still fought over the car keys until the key ring broke and he got the car key.  He was 18 years old.  He had no record.  It was a first offense.  Except for one thing, he had a LONG rap sheet starting with armed robbery at the age of 13.  It was his first offense as an adult, but then it was his birthday, he'd been an adult less than 24 hours.  Stealing my car was his way of giving himself a birthday present.

It took me five months to make sure he got the maximum, 13 years, it was a plea, he was facing 20 at trial.    No, I have absolutely no sympathy for criminals who plea for mercy.    They should get the same kind of mercy they show their victims.   Anyone who lies to put someone behind bars should get the same sentence that the incarcerated victim got.  All these women who scream rape and lie should get whatever sentence the accused got.

In your hypothetical, if the man has a time card showing he was at work, and there were people who saw him at work, the prosecution has no case.  The witness was mistaken because a lot of eye witnesses are mistaken.  Eye witness testimony is not the be all and end all.  It is merely some evidence, like any other form of evidence of guilt.   Time cards can be falsified, or a man could punch the time card, leave and come back.  Where are the time cards kept? Who has access to them?  Is there a method of being able to get away and come back.  

Evidence is evidence, eye witness evidence is no more or less than any other witness.

----------

Max Rockatansky (11-19-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> It took me five months to make sure he got the maximum, 13 years, it was a plea, he was facing 20 at trial.    No, I have absolutely no sympathy for criminals who plea for mercy.    They should get the same kind of mercy they show their victims.   Anyone who lies to put someone behind bars should get the same sentence that the incarcerated victim got.  All these women who scream rape and lie should get whatever sentence the accused got.


Sorry you had to go through that ordeal, but I really like your style in how you handled it.  Good job and agreed about those guilty of crimes, be it actually committing the act or lying about it.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I'm not like you.  I'm not a nice person.  Unless I was knocked completely unconscious, I would rather there be no cameras to record what I would be doing to that "child".


What if that camera was the only clue to what happened when "that child" disappeared?  

Having video evidence used against a mother disciplining her child isn't the fault of the camera, but of those pressing the charges.  You know the courts are trying to protect the best interests of the child.  Sometimes that ends up in bullshit, but how many times do you know of kids or spouses returned to their parents or husband only to end up on the hospital or the morgue? 

Obviously there are limits on how to use those cameras, but they do come in handy.

----------


## Muninn

> Some of my clients were innocent of the particular crime that eventually got them convicted.   They might have had a string of crimes under their belt and plead out many more.


Yet that does not make it right. That is not how the system is supposed to work. A person can commit 100 crimes and freely admit to them, yet under no circumstance should they be convicted of a crime they did not commit. 




> By the time the innocent black man is done, the jury no longer cares whether he's guilty of the crime or not.  They just want to see him put away.
> 
> A white guy will be quiet, respectful, say yes sir, no sir, be sympathetic to the witness, smile at the jury and walk out guilty as hell.


And there you exquistely show how a jury can destroy innocent life, and how easily it can be done. Pathetic, isn't it? Yet we treat those incarcerated like animals, when they very easily could be innocent. Even more pathetic, people justify this by deluding themselves that juries send people to jail, when 90% of cases never see a jury and the 10% that do are subject to this subjective bullshit that has nothing to do with facts or evidence. 




> After taking a look at the defendant's rap sheet and how many times he got away with the same or similar crimes the streets are better off with him on vacation for a little while.


Good to know you were part of the problem. I hope you are no longer in practice. 




> A few years ago I was the victim of a violent carjacking.  It was at 3:00 pm on a Sunday afternoon.  I went to the grocery store to get kitty litter.  He was in the parking lot and targeted me because I looked vulnerable.   He put a gun to my head, but I still fought over the car keys until the key ring broke and he got the car key.  He was 18 years old.  He had no record.  It was a first offense.  Except for one thing, he had a LONG rap sheet starting with armed robbery at the age of 13.  It was his first offense as an adult, but then it was his birthday, he'd been an adult less than 24 hours.  Stealing my car was his way of giving himself a birthday present.
> 
> It took me five months to make sure he got the maximum, 13 years, it was a plea, he was facing 20 at trial.    No, I have absolutely no sympathy for criminals who plea for mercy.    They should get the same kind of mercy they show their victims.   Anyone who lies to put someone behind bars should get the same sentence that the incarcerated victim got.  All these women who scream rape and lie should get whatever sentence the accused got.


What does that have to do with anything, other than to show you're not objective?




> In your hypothetical, if the man has a time card showing he was at work, and there were people who saw him at work, the prosecution has no case.  The witness was mistaken because a lot of eye witnesses are mistaken.  Eye witness testimony is not the be all and end all.  It is merely some evidence, like any other form of evidence of guilt.   Time cards can be falsified, or a man could punch the time card, leave and come back.  Where are the time cards kept? Who has access to them?  Is there a method of being able to get away and come back.  
> 
> Evidence is evidence, eye witness evidence is no more or less than any other witness.


No co-workers there to confirm he was there; he was the only man working that day until about 2 pm, long after the witness says they saw him deface the property. It is literally his word vs. her's. The only piece of evidence he has is the time card. The prosecution has the witness and the fact that the defendant had quit working for the victim just a few days prior to the property destruction. He's facing two class 6 felonies, prosecution is willing to drop them down to two misdemeanors and no jail time. Should he take the deal, even though he's as innocent as the Virgin Mary?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> And there you exquistely show how a jury can destroy innocent life, and how easily it can be done. Pathetic, isn't it? Yet we treat those incarcerated like animals, when they very easily could be innocent. Even more pathetic, people justify this by deluding themselves that juries send people to jail, when 90% of cases never see a jury and the 10% that do are subject to this subjective bullshit that has nothing to do with facts or evidence.


First, would you prefer no court system at all?  What would you replace it with?  Old West vigilante justice?

Second, if "90% of cases never see a jury", how can you claim juries are the problem? 




> Good to know you were part of the problem. I hope you are no longer in practice.


I think you'll wish prosecutors and law enforcement officers are still "in practice" if you or someone you care about is the unfortunate victim of a crime.

----------


## Roadmaster

Am glad someone helped this woman.

----------


## Muninn

> First, would you prefer no court system at all?


Umm, no. What we need to do is get the money and politics out of the system as much as we can. We need to do away with a lot of laws, such as the drug laws. Right now, there are many, many people who benefit from convictions and sending people to jail, only one person who benefits from an acquittal (the defendant). That needs to change

There are many things we can do to fix the problem without throwing the baby out with the bath water. What would you replace it with? 




> Second, if "90% of cases never see a jury", how can you claim juries are the problem?


I'm not the one who mentioned juries. Someone mentioned them as some sort of reason why the justice system is ok and why it works. I illustrated why that is flawed thinking. Do try to keep up





> I think you'll wish prosecutors and law enforcement officers are still "in practice" if you or someone you care about is the unfortunate victim of a crime.


She said she was a defense attorney. Are you even paying attention? And if I'm the victim of a crime, all I need to be 'in practice' is my .357

You did know that the police job description has nothing to do with protecting people, right? Or do I have to explain the very basics of the system?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Umm, no. What we need to do is get the money and politics out of the system as much as we can. We need to do away with a lot of laws, such as the drug laws.


What is your plan to "get the money and politics out of the system"?

Agreed about doing away with drug laws as far as usage.  If people want to kill themselves, let'em.  If they commit crimes while high or to feed their habit, then public executions.  Win-Win!

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Am glad someone helped this woman.


Girl...i'm surprised at you.  Your posting was very racist.  The guy obviously feels alienated.

----------


## Muninn

> What is your plan to "get the money and politics out of the system"?


Well, one of the ways to do that is get rid of the drug laws.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Well, one of the ways to do that is get rid of the drug laws.


It's a start, but really minor. 

Despite all the money wasted on the "War on Drugs", eliminating drug offenders would only solve about 25% of our problems.  Inevitably, other problems would crop up.  Even if drugs were free, people under the influence would still commit crimes; robbery, assault, murder, etc.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm#drug-related



> In 2004, 17% of state prisoners and 18% of federal inmates said they committed their current offense to obtain money for drugs. These percentages represent a slight increase for federal prisoners (16% in 1997) and a slight decrease for state prisoners (19% in 1997).
> Source: BJS, _Drug Use and Dependence, State and Federal Prisoners, 2004_, NCJ 213530, October 2006 and _Substance Abuse and Treatment, State and Federal Prisoners, 1997_, NCJ 172871, January 1999. 
> In 2002 about a quarter of convicted property and drug offenders in local jails had committed their crimes to get money for drugs, compared to 5% of violent and public order offenders. Among state prisoners in 2004 the pattern was similar, with property (30%) and drug offenders (26%) more likely to commit their crimes for drug money than violent (10%) and public-order offenders (7%). In federal prisons property offenders (11%) were less than half as likely as drug offenders (25%) to report drug money as a motive in their offenses.

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## Muninn

But it's a start, and an obvious one at that.

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## Roadmaster

> Girl...i'm surprised at you.  Your posting was very racist.  The guy obviously feels alienated.


And they wonder why white and other races are fed up with them. This was a coward and it took older men from the back of the bus to do something. Nothing wrong with him, he just noticed most were white on the bus and didn't expect anyone to stop him. They should have beat him up and I would bet it was simple assault and he is walking.

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## Roadmaster

You can't fight one without fighting others. But this is not racist they were upset. People need to stop making excuses for them. All no but many.

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## Calypso Jones

awwwww...wellllllll seeeee.  He wuz down on hih luck.   and dat is y he do dat.      I don't know...is it really necessary to have police in all black areas.   Maybe with the attitude we're seeing it would be better if non-black people should just avoid these areas.    I understand that Obama was going to force neighborhoods to 'open up'.    What could possibly go wrong?

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## Calypso Jones

I was just listening to Hannity....he had that PI Beau/Bo...is it Deitl?    They were talking about the KnockOut Game.   They called it Racism.   Black on White crime.  And that these gangs of blacks should be prosecuted...the woman may have said for attempted murder.

Bo said...if you see a group of blacks coming at you....beware.   

Well.   Finally.  A little truth.

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Perianne (11-20-2013)

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## Albert Reincarnated

Blacks need whites.

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## Network



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## Calypso Jones

and the criminal just trots away.   How very droll.

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## Calypso Jones

This was so small I had to find it to post it:  It was in the above video.

BLACK ON WHITE KNOCKOUT GAME PERP SHOT AND KILLED BY HIS LATEST VICTIM
02-20-2013 10:27 am - Colin Flaherty - World Net Daily
Tiffany Thompson got her wish: Demetrius Murphy met the “Right Person” and he will not be playing the Knockout Game any more. Ever.

 A St. Louis homeowner shot Murphy dead late last week during a burglary. And a whole lot of people in St. Louis feel relieved, if not safer.

 Murphy was a member of a group that is credited with making the Knockout Game a St. Louis tradition, then a national past-time.

 The rules of the Knockout Game are simple: Begin with a bunch of black people. Anywhere from three to 30.

 Find a white person, but an Asian will do. Alone is important. Older is better. Weak and defenseless even more so.

 Without warning, punch that person in the face as hard as you can. You win if you score a Knockout.

 If not, keep punching until your arms and legs get too tired to continue. Or the person dies.

 You can play anywhere, but “vibrant and culturally mixed” neighborhoods are probably the best. That is where the victims are: Asians, “gays,” artists, yuppies, seniors , college students – people who won’t fight back.

 Over the last two years, hundreds of people around the country have become victims. Some say over 100 in St. Louis alone. Some died. Others, like Murphy’s victim Matt Quain, suffered broken bones in his face and jaw.

 Last week, four members of the national Championship Alabama football team were arrested after three played the game two times, and the fourth tried to use a debit card taken during the attacks.

 Many of these cases of black mob violence are documented in the book “White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return racial violence and how the media ignore it.”

Murphy and his friends were arrested in November 2011 when police found a 13-year-old girl who witnessed the Knockout Game assault on Quain. The charges were dismissed after she failed to show up. The mayor of St. Louis said there was no doubt in his mind the witness was intimidated and too frightened to testify. The mother of the witness said the same several months later.

 The gang was jubilant, and took to FaceBook to say so. “FREE ALL MY TKO GUYS,” said one of the members of the mob that was freed, reported the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Two days later, two members of the group tracked down Quain and threatened him again.

 He threatened them with pepper spray and they ran.

 The pace of the Knockout Game picked up in other places with other victims. That is when Tiffany Thompson made her wish at a news site reporting the results of the latest St. Louis victim:

 "As a black woman i will say this, i wish they would run into the right person who is armed to defend themselves with a firearm…i bet we will see a drastic decrease in violence in our city. it is embarrassing and shameful – the image these losers portray of blacks in st louis. i do not and never will reside anywhere besides the suburbs of this city, because no one is safe among these savages. Do not get angry when people call them thugs, because that is exactly what they are and no excuses can be made for this barbaric behavior! it’s disgusting!!!"

 That “right person” was a St. Louis homeowner who found Murphy and a friend in his backyard at 1:30 a.m.

 Missouri citizens are protected by the so-called Castle Doctrine that allows the use of deadly force against intruders.

 But Murphy’s friend, a 17-year-old man, was charged with murder because he was an accomplice to a felony where a person was killed.

 Murphy’s grandfather, Paul Furst, told KSDK that Murphy was mentally challenged and did not deserve to die:

 I believe this is another one of the Trayvon Martin stories where people are getting so gun happy they shoot just on impulse now. I could understand if he was a threat. But on the property, he was not a threat.

 Murphy’s grandfather had nothing to say to a neighbor who said he, too, was a victim of Murphy: Jonathan Preiss told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

“I live 3 houses down from where the shooting took place. I believe they are the ones who threw a rock and a brick into my window, stole my tv, ps3, wii and games as well right before this happened. They ransacked my room, no regard for my property. I am still freaked out over this whole thing. I hope this is a lesson of the consequences for violating my community’s privacy.”

Murphy was 15 years old.

 ---------------------------------

 Source: http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/knockout-...p-shot-killed/

 Colin Flaherty is an award-winning reporter and author of "White Girl Bleed a Lot: The return of racial violence to America and how the media ignore it."

 - See more at: http://www.libertynewsonline.com/art....gp7buwms.dpuf

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## Calypso Jones

See what Granddaddy said....the boy was mentally challenged and didn't deserve to die.   well yeah he did.   Fifteen years old.

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## Roadmaster

Really white people need to do something.

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Perianne (11-20-2013)

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## Calypso Jones

How about people that are not really white?    Maybe they're off white or soft white or pink or yellow?

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## Calypso Jones

Wow.   YOu wanna stop the Knockout Game, white people?  Start playin' the ShootOut Game.     

Y'all need to listen to that whole thing...starting especially at the 6:30 point.

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## Roadmaster

Here is a home invasion and the guy was shot that had a rap sheet of 18 pages but the family thought the homeowner should have warned him he had a gun. I wouldn't doubt if this man doesn't have to watch his back. I am around decent black people but many are making a bad name for blacks and other races are thinking twice about them now.

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## MisterVeritis

> See what Granddaddy said....the boy was mentally challenged and didn't deserve to die.   well yeah he did.   Fifteen years old.


Arm up. And shoot to kill. The little monsters will get what they deserve.

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Brewski (11-19-2013)

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## Roadmaster

> Arm up. And shoot to kill. The little monsters will get what they deserve.


 I am sure people don't want to but something has to be done. They push their problems on others, it's not a game.

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## MisterVeritis

> I am sure people don't want to but something has to be done. They push their problems on others, it's not a game.


It is called self defense. If one of these thug groups hits me I would shoot as many as I could. Two rounds each. Frangible bullets. Center of mass. Reload and repeat as necessary. Then set my weapon down and wait for the cops. If no cops show in a minute retrieve my weapon and go on about my business.

Problem solved.

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## Brewski

> Here is a home invasion and the guy was shot that had a rap sheet of 18 pages but the family thought the homeowner should have warned him he had a gun. I wouldn't doubt if this man doesn't have to watch his back. I am around decent black people but many are making a bad name for blacks and other races are thinking twice about them now.


Which is only natural.  Despite the narrative, people don't generally adopt racist beliefs because of "ignorance".  Quite the opposite — experiences like these are eye opening.   I always wonder how many of these victimized whites had, before the attack, a positive view of minorities, diversity, multiculturalism, liberalism, etc.  I wonder what they are thinking moments before they realize they are about to become victims.  Do they consider telling the perp that they voted for Obama?  That they are one of the good whites who are there to help?  Do they ever stop and think "I was wrong"?  Do they change their views afterward?

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Perianne (11-20-2013)

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## Calypso Jones

Black kids are ridiculed for studying, making good grades, setting  goals and wanting  to succeed.   They are said to be 'acting white'.   Little criminals are going nowhere, probably will end up in jail if they don't end up dead.   This behavior is WHOSE fault?   It's their own.   There is no special privilege being NON-black.   EVERYBODY gets discriminated against.  If it isn't for  skin color it's for something else. Blacks think they have the market cornered on this.  They weren't slaves, neither were their parents or their grandparents.   So why are they doing this.   There's a reason for it.   What is it.    The same opportunities are available for blacks as there are for whites/other races.    Maybe more so with this affirmative action thing and the natural inclination of many PC businesses to be considered non racist even if it harms their business.

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usfan (11-20-2013)

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## Max Rockatansky

> Black kids are ridiculed for studying, making good grades, setting  goals and wanting  to succeed.   They are said to be 'acting white'.   Little criminals are going nowhere, probably will end up in jail if they don't end up dead.   This behavior is WHOSE fault?   It's their own.   There is no special privilege being NON-black.   EVERYBODY gets discriminated against.  If it isn't for  skin color it's for something else. Blacks think they have the market cornered on this.  They weren't slaves, neither were their parents or their grandparents.   So why are they doing this.   There's a reason for it.   What is it.    The same opportunities are available for blacks as there are for whites/other races.    Maybe more so with this affirmative action thing and the natural inclination of many PC businesses to be considered non racist even if it harms their business.


No doubt there is a major problem with inner city black culture and that problem has a negative impact on kids.

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## Rudy2D

http://www.youtube.com/embed/PJ1oh-2g-vg

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## Katzndogz

> Black kids are ridiculed for studying, making good grades, setting  goals and wanting  to succeed.   They are said to be 'acting white'.   Little criminals are going nowhere, probably will end up in jail if they don't end up dead.   This behavior is WHOSE fault?   It's their own.   There is no special privilege being NON-black.   EVERYBODY gets discriminated against.  If it isn't for  skin color it's for something else. Blacks think they have the market cornered on this.  They weren't slaves, neither were their parents or their grandparents.   So why are they doing this.   There's a reason for it.   What is it.    The same opportunities are available for blacks as there are for whites/other races.    Maybe more so with this affirmative action thing and the natural inclination of many PC businesses to be considered non racist even if it harms their business.


Murdered for acting white.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/09...honor-student/

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## Gerrard Winstanley

> See what Granddaddy said....the boy was mentally challenged and didn't deserve to die.   well yeah he did.   Fifteen years old.


What kind of Christian are you?

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## Calypso Jones

> No doubt there is a major problem with inner city black culture and that problem has a negative impact on kids.



well they're going outside their community in order to play their 'game'.   They know what they're doing.  This is no game.  Only a retard would call this a game and expect the rest of us to laugh, say 'you crazy kids' and maybe give them awards for how many people they knock out with one punch.   There's real actual racism going on here.

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Perianne (11-20-2013)

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## Max Rockatansky

There is lot's of racism in the US plus brutality and lawlessness.   The question is "What do we do about it?"

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## Rudy2D

The problem will be dealt with as the natural course of necessity once the food-trucks cease their rolling.

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## Calypso Jones

> There is lot's of racism in the US plus brutality and lawlessness.   The question is "What do we do about it?"


be armed and ready.   Be prepared.    and then be prepared to be arrested and charged with a hate crime.

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## Rudy2D

http://www.youtube.com/embed/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/embed/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/PJ1oh-2g-vg
http://www.youtube.com/PJ1oh-2g-vg


Can't get the vid to embed.

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## Max Rockatansky

> be armed and ready.   Be prepared.    and then be prepared to be arrested and charged with a hate crime.


Being armed and ready is always good advice, but I'm also a big fan of "work smarter, not harder".  

It's not in our best interests to have this criminal activity allowed, but neither is best to have vigilante or street justice as the norm. 

This problem doesn't have any easy solutions.  Guilt trips, throwing money at it and other appeasements aren't solutions, just temporary stop gaps by political cowards who don't want to admit the truth of the problems and the required solutions.

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## Canadianeye

> Being armed and ready is always good advice, but I'm also a big fan of "work smarter, not harder".  
> 
> It's not in our best interests to have this criminal activity allowed, but neither is best to have vigilante or street justice as the norm. 
> 
> This problem doesn't have any easy solutions.  Guilt trips, throwing money at it and other appeasements aren't solutions, just temporary stop gaps by political cowards who don't want to admit the truth of the problems and the required solutions.


It does have easy solutions, but the ideology of modern liberalism in conjunction with political correctness and social justice...prohibits, or better put freezes the process so the solution can't be reached.

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## Max Rockatansky

> It does have easy solutions, but the ideology of modern liberalism in conjunction with political correctness and social justice...prohibits, or better put freezes the process so the solution can't be reached.


Slows it down or goes in the wrong direction?  Yes.  Freezes?  No.  They aren't that powerful.   Part of the problem with conservatives pushing better solutions is they are too busy backstabbing each other to put up an effective force against the excesses of modern liberalism.

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## Calypso Jones

> Slows it down or goes in the wrong direction?  Yes.  Freezes?  No.  They aren't that powerful.   Part of the problem with conservatives pushing better solutions is they are too busy backstabbing each other to put up an effective force against the excesses of modern liberalism.


Yes that's true. Republicans are backstabbing each other in between the constant vicious attacks by democrats.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Yes that's true. Republicans are backstabbing each other in between the constant vicious attacks by democrats.


The first step, IMO, is to form a stronger party.  In a nation as large and variant as the United States, you aren't going to find very many people who agree exactly with each other on every issue.  To form a political party requires establishing general principles of the party, but also allowing members to agree to disagree on solutions.  This doesn't mean the Party or any one has to compromise their principles, as many here often complain, but it does mean not labeling someone a blasphemer or, more often, a RINO, just because they don't agree on a particular solution.

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## MisterVeritis

> No doubt there is a major problem with inner city black culture and that problem has a negative impact on kids.


Maybe we should eliminate the 50 welfare programs and stop destroying families. One father. One mother. Married. This is the solution to so many of society's problems. We need to get the government out of the way.

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## indago

> Really white people need to do something.


What those blacks are looking for is a return to *the good ol' days*:

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## indago

*Journalist Wesley Lowery wrote for The Boston Globe 21 November 2013:*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prosecutors said Thursday that the 14-year-old student charged with killing Danvers High School teacher Colleen Ritzer last month also raped her and robbed her of her cellphone, credit cards, and underwear before dumping her body in a nearby wooded area.  ...Prosecutors say Chism attacked her with a box cutter, raped and robbed her, and then dumped her body in an area behind the school.  ...“The indictments returned today detail horrific and unspeakable acts,” Essex District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett said in a statement Thursday.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


article/video

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## usfan

> be armed and ready.   Be prepared.    and then be prepared to be arrested and charged with a hate crime.


I am fortunate in that i seldom need to go to a high crime area.  We often are in inner cities, but in the downtown area.. Phx, San Diego, NY, Honolulu, San Francisco are some of the cities we find ourselves in from year to year.  But we are in the 'sanitized' part of the city.. where the city fathers make sure it is safe for tourists.  I'll get to rougher parts of phoenix, but seldom at night, & seldom less on foot.  But it may be our vicious chihuahua is the deterrent, i don't know.





> It does have easy solutions, but the ideology of modern liberalism in conjunction with political correctness and social justice...prohibits, or better put freezes the process so the solution can't be reached.


It seems like the deck is stacked against us, in society.  Justice for crimes is diluted or non existent & barbarism is up in the inner city youth.  The race part is fanned by the likes of sharpton, jackson, & even obama.  There are a handful of whites who are affected by it, but those who take the brunt of it are the black inner city residents, who are terrorized by these thugs all the time.  There aren't enough clint eastwoods to tell them, 'get off my lawn!'







> Maybe we should eliminate the 50 welfare programs and stop destroying families. One father. One mother. Married. This is the solution to so many of society's problems. We need to get the government out of the way.


IMO, this is the root cause.  The welfare state has put incentives on:
1. make as many babies as you can, with no family structure.
2. don't work or be responsible for yourself or your babies.
3. Send the babies to schools, where they can learn street tough.. kind of like prison preschool.
4. Get in a gang to protect yourself.. individual people in the ghetto are targets.
5. go the drug/violence route.. this is your life.
6. Die or kill in street violence, unless you are female, then go to step 1.
7. repeat as long as they pay you to have babies with  no responsibility.

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## Brewski

> What those blacks are looking for is a return to *the good ol' days*:



Black teens across the country weren't doing this back then.  This was back when the country was far more racist than it is now, and blacks were even further down the socioeconomic scale.  So the whole "racism and poverty are causing them to act violent" theory is thrown out the window.  What else will the white guilt contingent blame for their favorite pet minority group's violent and dysfunctional behavior?

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## usfan

> Black teens across the country weren't doing this back then.  This was back when the country was far more racist than it is now, and blacks were even further down the socioeconomic scale.  So the whole "racism and poverty are causing them to act violent" theory is thrown out the window.  What else will the white guilt contingent blame for their favorite pet minority group's violent and dysfunctional behavior?


Excellent points.  These are not defensive acts, or idealistic acts from some oppressed group.  These are ruthless, barbaric acts from thugs.. not for food, or freedom, or to resist an oppressor.  They are playing a stupid, violent game.  They are well fed, well clothed, idle, roaming bands of hoodlums, looking for a thrill at other's expense.  It IS a racially motivated 'game', which should raise the ire of the race centered bigots.. but they ignore it & look the other way.

It is another indication of the loss of justice in america.  Between the destruction of the economy, the family social structure, the middle class, & justice,  little remains for the left to include in their cloward piven strategy.

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## Max Rockatansky

> IMO, this is the root cause.  The welfare state has put incentives on:
> 1. make as many babies as you can, with no family structure.
> 2. don't work or be responsible for yourself or your babies.
> 3. Send the babies to schools, where they can learn street tough.. kind of like prison preschool.
> 4. Get in a gang to protect yourself.. individual people in the ghetto are targets.
> 5. go the drug/violence route.. this is your life.
> 6. Die or kill in street violence, unless you are female, then go to step 1.
> 7. repeat as long as they pay you to have babies with  no responsibility.


There are more factors at work than simply LBJ's "Great Society", but the Welfare State seems to be the biggest blunder/causal factor of many social problems we see today,  especially among inner city blacks. 

A society that grows up thinking it is a right to be given a basic subsistence allowance of money is a society that has no respect for itself, it's members or anyone else.

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usfan (11-23-2013)

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## Max Rockatansky

> What those blacks are looking for is a return to *the good ol' days*:


Several members here seem anxious to accommodate them.

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## DonGlock26

> Several members here seem anxious to accommodate them.


Ah, selective angst is selective.

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## indago

*From WILX Lansing Michigan 22 November 2013:*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The victim was attacked by 17-year-old Marvell Weaver. But Weaver did more than try to knock his victim out, he tried to do it with a taser. Luckily for the victim, the taser didn't work and he was able to protect himself with his concealed-carry .40 caliber pistol.  ...Weaver was shot twice, in the leg and an inch away from his spine. He's been sentenced to a year in jail for the attack...  Before he was caught, he and his friends had attacked random people on several occasions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


article/video

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