# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  News Flash, Gun Nuts: There is No "Right to Rebel"

## Polly Kong

I'm getting tired of hearing this theory that the NRA has been  advancing forever that the Second Amendment constitutes a right to  rebel. As someone in the history field who knows something about the era  in which the Second Amendment was written, I can guarantee you  otherwise. Here is how the Second Amendment reads:




> A well  regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the  right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


 The NRA only reads that last part that says "the right of the people to  keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". They tend to conveniently  forget the qualifier inserted before that explaining WHY people were to  have such a right. You see, in the olden days of the republic, we had no  standing army or state national guards. Therefore, the ability of the  new government to call up state militias was viewed as very important in  this context. What were the functions of such a militia? Well, they  were used to put down slave revolts and rebellions of the poor (who  formed the overwhelming majority of society at the time). Inspiring  stuff, huh? Aside from these illegitimate, repressive purposes though,  they were also viewed as important to securing the new nation from a  second British invasion, which wasn't at all an unplausible prospect at  the time. National self-defense. Well we've now had a standing army for  two centuries; since the War of 1812. The Second Amendment by any  standard has thus today outlived its stated purpose by some 200 years.  There is no reason to have it anymore.

 As you can see from the  text and this analysis, far from constituting a right to overthrow the  federal government, the actual purpose of the Second Amendment was the  exact opposite: to provide for its defense against the masses! It was  intended to shore up the government rather than to provide a means of  rebellion against tyranny! But if you don't want to take my word for it,  take the U.S. Supreme Court's because they've ruled on this subject of  whether there exists a constitutional right to rebel. In the early  1870s, shortly after the American Civil War, the U.S. Supreme Court,  controlled at the time by the Republican Party no less, ruled that there  is no right to rebel in the U.S. Constitution. You have no legal right  to overthrow the government, period.

 I'm just pointing all this  out to highlight how absurd the NRA's claims are that the Second  Amendment is a constitutionally-enshrined right to rebel. It's not. And  it has no purpose in today's America.

----------


## Maximatic

I know. NRA guys are stupid. Words written on paper can't give you a right. The right to rebel is inherent in everyone by virtue of being a human being.

----------

St James (02-05-2013)

----------


## keymanjim

The right to shrug off the yolk of an oppressive government is a human right. Not a right enumerated in any document.

----------

Fearandloathing (02-03-2013),St James (02-05-2013),Trinnity (02-06-2013)

----------


## Guest

***Heavy Sigh***

There is a natural right to rebel, hence why the colonists rebelled.  The founding fathers, people you are neglecting in your post, all said the express purpose was for states to form militias *against* the government should it fall to tyranny.  We have their words what that amendment was about, but keep on ignoring it.

I swear, it is amazing how much statist Kool Aid you would have to drink that you think you have no natural right to throw off the oppressive chains of tyrants.

----------

garyo (02-02-2013),St James (02-02-2013)

----------


## Guest

http://www.monticello.org/site/jeffe...ment-quotation

*The beauty of the Second Amendment... (Quotation)*

*Quotation:* "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
*Variations:*

"The people will not understand the importance of the Second Amendment until it is too late."
*Sources consulted:* (searching for the phrase "second amendment")

American Founding Era CollectionPapers of Thomas Jefferson: Retirement Series_Works of Thomas Jefferson_ (Ford)_Writings of Thomas Jefferson_ (Lipscomb & Bergh)_Quotable Jefferson_ (Kaminski)
*Earliest known appearance in print:* 2007[1]

----------


## Guest

*IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776**The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America*h*en in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,* a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

----------


## Guest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed

Also from the Declaration:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

----------


## Polly Kong

News Flash #2: 

The Declaration of Independence is not a binding legal document. The U.S. Constitution is.

----------

coke (05-03-2017)

----------


## Guest

Tell me, have you ever lived in a "communist country"?  Ever lived in a country with gun control?  I was born in one and I can tell you first hand it was a scary place to live in even for a child.  My mother would take me to the "market" with her and we would literally wait all day for sanitary napkins.  There were posters on every corner telling us to be suspicious of everyone, to be afraid.  

It was started with the very best intentions but it was a drab, ominous place.  That is what I remember from my childhood.  Without the voluntary consent, without the ability to say "no, I don't want this anymore" you live in constant fear and depression.

Fuck. That. Shit.

----------

Agravan (02-03-2013),St James (02-02-2013)

----------


## Guest

> News Flash #2: 
> 
> The Declaration of Independence is not a binding legal document. The U.S. Constitution is.


News flash, the SCOTUS has upheld it as such over 53 times.

----------


## Polly Kong

The SCOTUS has also determined that there is no legal right to rebel.

----------


## Maximatic

> News Flash #2: 
> 
> The Declaration of Independence is not a binding legal document. The U.S. Constitution is.


I'm laughing very hard gight now.

----------


## Guest

Why don't you go read the case of the Amistad?  It is on the SCOTUS website.  Download it and have fun.  That is one among many where the SCOTUS said that the DOI was a foundational document with the weight of the Constitution.  There are 52 others.

----------


## Maximatic

> The SCOTUS has also determined that there is no legal right to rebel.


hahahahahahh

----------


## Guest

> The SCOTUS has also determined that there is no legal right to rebel.


So, I guess we all are still British subjects then?  Cool.  I'll start practicing my accent now.

----------

The XL (02-02-2013)

----------


## Paperback Writer

Maybe the two of you ought to just declare war and have a debate set up?  This happens every time you two post at the same time.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

Even if the amendment didn't specifically say you have the right to rebel, you still have that right. The whole principle of socialism, communism, and other related philosophies is rebellion against the capatalist system. The whole principle of the feminist movement is rebellion against the patriarchy and its slave-like domination over the will of women. The main principle of the Civil Rights Movement was rebellion against a racist establishment that denied equal rights to all people. 

Thus, why your post confuses me. Without the right to rebel, we could never have achieved what we have, achievements that you yourself support.

----------


## Guest

No one can tell you that you have no right to rebel.  Is that the nation we want to live in where the government has decided it is an eternal entity no matter how horrible it becomes?

WTF?

----------


## garyo

And thank God your opinions don't matter.

----------


## Maximatic

> The SCOTUS has also determined that there is no legal right to rebel.


Hey  :Hello2:  Polly  :Blob9: , instead of starting this new debate, why don't you go finish that one you started yesterday?

----------


## Guest

> Even if the amendment didn't specifically say you have the right to rebel, you still have that right. The whole principle of socialism, communism, and other related philosophies is rebellion against the capatalist system. The whole principle of the feminist movement is rebellion against the patriarchy and its slave-like domination over the will of women. The main principle of the Civil Rights Movement was rebellion against a racist establishment that denied equal rights to all people. 
> 
> Thus, why your post confuses me. Without the right to rebel, we could never have achieved what we have, achievements that you yourself support.



Because she is an authoritarian.  She gets to tell "gun nuts" that they "have no right" to do something.  Hippie my ass.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> And thank God your opinions don't matter.


On the contrary, her opinion matters very much.

----------


## Guest

> On the contrary, her opinion matters very much.


It certainly does because people like Polly organize and vote.  Yea gods!

----------

gamewell45 (02-02-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (02-02-2013)

----------


## St James

> The SCOTUS has also determined that there is no legal right to rebel.


of course they would, snookums....it's job security for them.............

----------


## St James

> So, I guess we all are still British subjects then?  Cool.  I'll start practicing my accent now.


practice with paperback writer..............lmao

----------



----------


## St James

> Even if the amendment didn't specifically say you have the right to rebel, you still have that right. The whole principle of socialism, communism, and other related philosophies is rebellion against the capatalist system. The whole principle of the feminist movement is rebellion against the patriarchy and its slave-like domination over the will of women. The main principle of the Civil Rights Movement was rebellion against a racist establishment that denied equal rights to all people. 
> 
> Thus, why your post confuses me. Without the right to rebel, we could never have achieved what we have, achievements that you yourself support.


nicely done, lil' feller, nicely done  :Thumbsup20:

----------


## Network

NewsFlash Polly, without guns, you might be worth holding down.  knowhatimsayin.

The state isn't good at forbidding things.  They actually are not good at anything except collectively destroying a large population of people under their rule.

----------



----------


## St James

> Hey  Polly , instead of starting this new debate, why don't you go finish that one you started yesterday?


yer just so wrong   :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## The XL

> News Flash #2: 
> 
> The Declaration of Independence is not a binding legal document. The U.S. Constitution is.


Like you or any progressive gives a fuck about the Constitution.

----------



----------


## The XL

Rights aren't given to us by government.

----------

St James (02-02-2013)

----------


## gamewell45

> The right to shrug off the yolk of an oppressive government is a human right. Not a right enumerated in any document.


Violence breeds violence.

----------


## Maximatic

> Violence breeds violence.


Yup. That's why people shouldn't force other people to do things. The threat of violence begets violence.

----------


## gamewell45

> Yup. That's why people shouldn't force other people to do things. The threat of violence begets violence.


True, but you need to pick and choose your battles.  This one would have a very tilted outcome.

----------


## Guest

> True, but you need to pick and choose your battles.  This one would have a very tilted outcome.


That's what everyone thought about the Soviet Union and still when Boris Yeltsin, drunk tho he was, faced down the tanks...it happened.

----------



----------


## liberal_hack

In all seriousness, the surge in guns should be seen as a revenue opportunity. I believe a fee should be assessed with each gun purchase.

----------


## Maximatic

> In all seriousness, the surge in guns should be seen as a revenue opportunity. I believe a fee should be assessed with each gun purchase.


It should? It _ought_ to be seen that way? Are you saying that the _good_ and _right_ thing to do is to seize this opportunity to make a demand, backed by a threat of force, that the subjects give yet more of their earnings to their rulers?

Whether you like it or not, those are the logical implications of what you said.

----------


## patrickt

It's true. Liberals don't give Americans a right to rebel. And muggers don't give victims a right to resist. Rapists don't give women a right to object. Who can rebel without having the tyrant give explicit permission?

----------

Fearandloathing (02-03-2013)

----------


## Fearandloathing

> News Flash #2: 
> 
> The Declaration of Independence is not a binding legal document. The U.S. Constitution is.


What difference does that make?

The declaration has been used by the courts since its inception as a point of clarification.

The amendments ARE law.  And while its a stretch for the NRA to say that the second amendment allows for rebellion, it does allow for the establishment of militia.....armed militia.  That's the law and it ain't going to change any time soon.

Get over it.

BTW, I hate guns, not nearly as much as stupidity and blind orthodoxy, but I do.   and I will defend to MY death the right of every American to have one......'cause when I'm practicing MY right of assembly and free speech I want the guys with guns on my side.  I trust them  a fuck of a lot more than Obama, his secretary of state [either] or any of his cronies.

Power corrupts and when you're as corrupt as these pricks, it corrupts absolutely.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (02-03-2013)

----------


## Fearandloathing

> In all seriousness, the surge in guns should be seen as a revenue opportunity. I believe a fee should be assessed with each gun purchase.


Always about the money with liberals aint it?

Don't worry that your government is shredding the constitution, or that you have less rights today than did a citizen of Soviet Russia in the 1960's....

Nope, just grab the cash so the 47% can gulp down some entitlement funded caviar.

----------


## patrickt

Is there anything liberals don't want to tax. Do liberals have any plans beyond tax more, spend more, increase the deficit, increase the debt, and blame someone else?

And, the Constitution does give the people and the states the right to rebel. All rights not specifically given the nitwits in Washington are retrained by the states and the people.
\

----------


## St James

> True, but you need to pick and choose your battles.  This one would have a very tilted outcome.


game, I'd rather die on my feet defending my home and community than live like a fucking malnourished dog begging for table scraps from the thief who stole it from me in the first place. What price Liberty?

----------


## St James

> What difference does that make?
> 
> The declaration has been used by the courts since its inception as a point of clarification.
> 
> The amendments ARE law.  And while its a stretch for the NRA to say that the second amendment allows for rebellion, it does allow for the establishment of militia.....armed militia.  That's the law and it ain't going to change any time soon.
> 
> Get over it.
> 
> BTW, I hate guns, not nearly as much as stupidity and blind orthodoxy, but I do.   and I will defend to MY death the right of every American to have one......'cause when I'm practicing MY right of assembly and free speech I want the guys with guns on my side.  I trust them  a fuck of a lot more than Obama, his secretary of state [either] or any of his cronies.
> ...


The BoR is not law. It is supposed to exempt from laws. What part of "shall not infringe" don't you get? Since the infamous ruling about the 1st A ( yelling "fire" in a theater) it established a precedence to access the BoR and convert all protected Rights to privilege. Rights cannot be taken away, legally or lawfully. But some folks are willing to give them up, gladly and surrender yours as well.

----------


## gamewell45

> game, I'd rather die on my feet defending my home and community than live like a fucking malnourished dog begging for table scraps from the thief who stole it from me in the first place. What price Liberty?


Well look at it this way; we all have to die someday,  some of us get to pick and choose how we die; can't be more American then that can we?

----------

