# Politics and News > SOCIETY & humanities >  Matter of curiosity for anyone who didn't sleep through high school science.

## n0spam4me

So,  What do you think of a skyscraper collapse event that descends at 64% of the acceleration of gravity?
and additionally what if a collapsing skyscraper spent 2.25 sec of its collapse descending at free fall acceleration?

and looking at the Evan Fairbanks video, do you believe that an airliner could do what was shown in the video?

And really guys, if you are not going to focus on the questions, please do not bother taking up space on this thread.
I am attempting to instigate discussion here and having tangents created by people who really don't care,
is a total waste.

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## sooda

> So,  What do you think of a skyscraper collapse event that descends at 64% of the acceleration of gravity?
> and additionally what if a collapsing skyscraper spent 2.25 sec of its collapse descending at free fall acceleration?
> 
> and looking at the Evan Fairbanks video, do you believe that an airliner could do what was shown in the video?
> 
> And really guys, if you are not going to focus on the questions, please do not bother taking up space on this thread.
> I am attempting to instigate discussion here and having tangents created by people who really don't care,
> is a total waste.


Did you take HS science?

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## n0spam4me

> Did you take HS science?


Indeed, and exactly what about Newtonian laws do you see in the above bits?
can you parse out the oddities?

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## Rutabaga

why dont you just cut to the chase and spell out what you're inferring...

can you do that?

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NuYawka (02-12-2018),sooda (02-11-2018),valley ranch (02-13-2018)

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## Quark

Where's the video?

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## n0spam4me

wow man, do I gotta spoon feed this group(?) :

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## n0spam4me

> why dont you just cut to the chase and spell out what you're inferring...
> 
> can you do that?


I was interested to know if anybody else had an interpretation that they would be willing to express.

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## Rutabaga

> I was interested to know if anybody else had an interpretation that they would be willing to express.


an interpretation of newtons law of gravity?

"what goes up, must come down"...

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Quark (02-12-2018),Tennyson (02-18-2018),valley ranch (02-13-2018)

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## Rutabaga

> wow man, do I gotta spoon feed this group(?) :


ok, for the sake of discussion, you don't believe planes hit the towers?

or you dont believe they were the sole cause of their collapse?

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018)

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## n0spam4me

> an interpretation of newtons law of gravity?
> 
> "what goes up, must come down"...


There are other laws concerning conservation of momentum,  equal and opposite reaction,  Inertia ( etc .... ) 
.
Newton's laws of motion - Wikipedia

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## n0spam4me

> ok, for the sake of discussion, you don't believe planes hit the towers?
> 
> or you dont believe they were the sole cause of their collapse?


I am attempting to stimulate discussion here, does the crash video, look real
or possibly like bad movie special effects?  What do you think?

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## Rutabaga

> I am attempting to stimulate discussion here, does the crash video, look real
> or possibly like bad movie special effects?  What do you think?


there are hundreds of videos from dozens of vantage points throughout the city...

were they ALL made by the same person, at the same time of impact?

are all the witnesses lying? [tens of thousands all across the city]

what would be their motivation to lie?

how would that be accomplished?

yes, there are questions about 9-11 i'd like answered, but none pertain to gravity...

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018),QuaseMarco (02-12-2018)

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## Traddles

> wow man, do I gotta spoon feed this group(?)



A pro tip I'm sure you'll ignore: insulting long-term forum members usually goes ill for newbies.

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018),Rickity Plumber (02-12-2018),Tennyson (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

heres another video:




and another of the first plane:





there are literally hundreds more...

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## n0spam4me

> A pro tip I'm sure you'll ignore: insulting long-term forum members usually goes ill for newbies.


I didn't know that this was to be considered insulting, ( who are the snowflakes? ) 
do I have to tread on egg-shells around here?

anyhow, what are you going to do, .... report me to homelandsecurity?

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## n0spam4me

A: where are these Hundreds of videos? how many are there really? 

B: if the content of said video is something highly questionable, then if there is one, or many videos that show exactly the same thing
then the content is critical to the discussion and the fact that there may be more than one video that shows the same thing does not
negate said content.

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## Rutabaga

> I didn't know that this was to be considered insulting, ( who are the snowflakes? ) 
> do I have to tread on egg-shells around here?
> 
> anyhow, what are you going to do, .... report me to homelandsecurity?


why not just say what you mean...you think 9/11 was some sort of conspiracy [most likely orchestrated by the jews] to dump a mostly empty building they had just bought and insured.

see, this aint my first rodeo...nor is it anyone's here...

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East of the Beast (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018)

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## frankmusic

On September 11, 2001, my wife was in WTC Tower I when the first plane hit. She was then down, out and into the street when the second pane hit. There was nothing FAKE about those commercial airliners deliberately striking those two buildings. It's absolutely ridiculous to state any other theory, such a CGI or whatever.  :Angry20:

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),Crusader (02-11-2018),East of the Beast (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018),Rickity Plumber (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-11-2018),Sled Dog (02-11-2018),Tennyson (02-11-2018)

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## Traddles

> I didn't know that this was to be considered insulting, ( who are the snowflakes? ) 
> do I have to tread on egg-shells around here?
> 
> anyhow, what are you going to do, .... report me to homelandsecurity?



What a canned response. You should practice it more, maybe add a little originality. But other than that, nope, just  :Smiley ROFLMAO:  .

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-11-2018),Tennyson (02-11-2018)

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## Traddles

> On September 11, 2001, my wife was in WTC Tower I when the first plane hit. She was then down, out and into the street when the second pane hit. There was nothing FAKE about those commercial airliners deliberately striking those two buildings. It's absolutely ridiculous to state any other theory, such a CGI or whatever.


_[Satire]_ So, your wife is part of the conspiracy? _[Satire]_

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Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

> A: where are these Hundreds of videos? how many are there really? 
> 
> B: if the content of said video is something highly questionable, then if there is one, or many videos that show exactly the same thing
> then the content is critical to the discussion and the fact that there may be more than one video that shows the same thing does not
> negate said content.


where are the videos?

ever heard of "youtube?"

videos are interpreted by the viewer...what you may see as evidence of something, others may not see in the same vein...

do you think planes hit the towers?

yes or no...

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018)

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## frankmusic

> _[Satire]_ So, your wife is part of the conspiracy? _[Satire]_


I am not, nor trying to hijack this thread, but it infuriates me when misinformed individuals attempt to inject BS about that day - that just did not happen. My wife was employed by the Port Authority. Two of my best friends were the first responders to that site. Another very good friend was the K-9 handler for the PA police. .............Yes, it rained bodies on that day.

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),QuaseMarco (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> I was interested to know if anybody else had an interpretation that they would be willing to express.


The building collapse was initiated by the impact of a fully fueled jetliner.

The collapse event is totally consistent with known engineering principles.

Midgardian needs to go get a life.

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East of the Beast (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),Rickity Plumber (02-12-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> There are other laws concerning conservation of momentum,  equal and opposite reaction,  Inertia ( etc .... ) 
> .
> Newton's laws of motion - Wikipedia



You mean like as the buildings came accelerating down, the entire planet earth was accelerating up to meet it, both of them following Newton's law, F=ma?

That requirement was satisfied.

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> A: where are these Hundreds of videos? how many are there really? 
> 
> B: if the content of said video is something highly questionable, then if there is one, or many videos that show exactly the same thing
> then the content is critical to the discussion and the fact that there may be more than one video that shows the same thing does not
> negate said content.


The content of the video isn't questionable.

This crap was all promoted by the Rodents in an effort to de-legitimize Bush AND to move attention away from the Rodents who were complicit in allowing the attacks to happen in the first place.

Why do you like being a tool, Midgardian?

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Jim Scott (02-11-2018)

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## Traddles

> I am not, nor trying to hijack this thread, but it infuriates me when misinformed individuals attempt to inject BS about that day - that just did not happen. My wife was employed by the Port Authority. Two of my best friends were the first responders to that site. Another very good friend was the K-9 handler for the PA police. .............Yes, it rained bodies on that day.



Geez! I even added _Satire_ tags to what should have been an obviously satiric post. And my satire was directed to our resident Troofer, not you, which should also have been obvious.

I sympathize with your losses of friends and the horror you and your wife experienced. But do try to direct your ire from Troofers' nonsense at the Troofers.

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frankmusic (02-11-2018)

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## Crusader

It was a goverment conspiracy, trained operatives planted explosives to make the towers come straight down. All the Hollyweird special effects people were also involved, that’s why it looked so real. 

I hear you OP, you figured it all out, now you and your tinfoil hat need to head back to the nut house before they do a headcount and figure out your gone.

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Jim Scott (02-11-2018),Traddles (02-11-2018)

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## Traddles

> The building collapse was initiated by the impact of a fully fueled jetliner.
> 
> The collapse event is totally consistent with known engineering principles.
> 
> Midgardian needs to go get a life.


Strictly speaking it was a series of scores of collapses as each floor collapsed and then caused the next floor to collapse. Also the planes dislodged insulation from steel supports in the buildings and the heat from the fire weakened the strength of the steel, contributing to the first collapse.

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Jim Scott (02-11-2018)

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## frankmusic

> Geez! I even added _Satire_ tags to what should have been an obviously satiric post. And my satire was directed to our resident Troofer, not you, which should also have been obvious.I sympathize with your losses of friends and the horror you and your wife experienced. But do try to direct your ire from Troofers' nonsense at the Troofers.


My ire was* NOT* directed at you. Stay calm. You weren't the one attempting to cloud that event. I merely followed up your statement with one of my own. Sorry for any misunderstanding. If I wanted to demonstrate any ire at you, I would have made that quite clear. Trust me.

Thank you for your kind and sincere concerns.

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Traddles (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

@nOspam4me, do you believe planes hit the towers?

yes or no..

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),frankmusic (02-11-2018)

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## East of the Beast

he’s gone......and in more ways than one

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Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

> he’s gone......and in more ways than one


they blow up so quickly these days....

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East of the Beast (02-11-2018)

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## Conservative Libertarian

> Did you take HS science?


At least, you didn't ask if he had been in Saudi Arabia.

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-11-2018),frankmusic (02-11-2018),Jim Scott (02-11-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018)

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## Ginger

> So,  What do you think of a skyscraper collapse event that descends at 64% of the acceleration of gravity?
> and additionally what if a collapsing skyscraper spent 2.25 sec of its collapse descending at free fall acceleration?
> 
> and looking at the Evan Fairbanks video, do you believe that an airliner could do what was shown in the video?


 and there it is, a 911 truther I thought they all dried up

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## Rutabaga

:Smiley ROFLMAO: 


> At least, you didn't ask if he had been in Saudi Arabia.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

10 post max and the little dweep is on the ash pit of history.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> 10 post max and the little dweep is on the ash pit of history.


Well, it seems like I missed it by one.

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## Dan40

> So,  What do you think of a skyscraper collapse event that descends at 64% of the acceleration of gravity?
> and additionally what if a collapsing skyscraper spent 2.25 sec of its collapse descending at free fall acceleration?
> 
> and looking at the Evan Fairbanks video, do you believe that an airliner could do what was shown in the video?
> 
> And really guys, if you are not going to focus on the questions, please do not bother taking up space on this thread.
> I am attempting to instigate discussion here and having tangents created by people who really don't care,
> is a total waste.


Shame about that failing grade. And 6 tries too.

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## JMWinPR

> So,  What do you think of a skyscraper collapse event that descends at 64% of the acceleration of gravity?
> and additionally what if a collapsing skyscraper spent 2.25 sec of its collapse descending at free fall acceleration?
> 
> and looking at the Evan Fairbanks video, do you believe that an airliner could do what was shown in the video?
> 
> And really guys, if you are not going to focus on the questions, please do not bother taking up space on this thread.
> I am attempting to instigate discussion here and having tangents created by people who really don't care,
> is a total waste.


I was there, didn't see you though. BTW I've been to the shithole Saudi Arabia

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frankmusic (02-11-2018)

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## sooda

> I was there, didn't see you though. BTW I've been to the shithole Saudi Arabia


Really? How long were you there? Were you there during desert storm?

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## Rutabaga

> Really? How long were you there? Were you there during desert storm?


i was,,,here's a selfie i took....

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-11-2018),frankmusic (02-12-2018),Kodiak (02-11-2018)

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## Traddles

> My ire was* NOT* directed at you. Stay calm. You weren't the one attempting to cloud that event. I merely followed up your statement with one of my own. Sorry for any misunderstanding. If I wanted to demonstrate any ire at you, I would have made that quite clear. Trust me.
> 
> Thank you for your kind and sincere concerns.



My apologies for misunderstanding your intent.

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018),frankmusic (02-12-2018)

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## Rutabaga

> The precise response is that it was NOT a commercial airliner
> what it really was, is open to discussion,* however it could not possibly have been an airliner.*


says who?

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

> The precise response is that it was NOT a commercial airliner
> what it really was, is open to discussion,* however it could not possibly have been an airliner.*


ok, but you must have something other than your flapping gums to verify that..

and are we talking only about YOUR video, or others?


were you there to witness it first hand?

many were..thousands in fact...

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

something spooky going on.... :Thinking:

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## n0spam4me

> [/B]
> ok, but you must have something other than your flapping gums to verify that..
> 
> and are we talking only about YOUR video, or others?


To address the part about how it really could not have been a commercial airliner
we are talking about an aircraft allegedly traveling aprox 540 mph and striking a wall,
there would be a huge jolt of initial deceleration, and then there would be continuous deceleration
after that the initial jolt would be aprox 8 milliseconds of >100 g deceleration followed by at least another
50 milliseconds of >40 g deceleration, this would be product of having to shift the tons of mass required to
make the hole in the side of the tower, and also the energy required to sheer off bolts as alleged in order
to make it possible to shift said mass, and having to force a 5 meter dia. aircraft body into a space defined
by 3.6 meters between decks further impeded by the fact that there was floor truss structure.
Under the stress of >40 g, the airliner would suffer catastrophic failure and do so very quickly, 
that is before it had any chance of making that wing shaped gash in the building.

And as for the videos, there are VERY few that include the south wall of the south tower as it is being penetrated by the airliner.
there are many videos that have the south wall not visible in the picture, and therefore present far less info on the subject.
the key bit here is the manner of penetration with the airliner showing no jolt on first contact, no visible deceleration, and no deformation
structural failure of the alleged airliner as it penetrated.

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## Hillofbeans

> To address the part about how it really could not have been a commercial airliner
> we are talking about an aircraft allegedly traveling aprox 540 mph and striking a wall,
> there would be a huge jolt of initial deceleration, and then there would be continuous deceleration
> after that the initial jolt would be aprox 8 milliseconds of >100 g deceleration followed by at least another
> 50 milliseconds of >40 g deceleration, this would be product of having to shift the tons of mass required to
> make the hole in the side of the tower, and also the energy required to sheer off bolts as alleged in order
> to make it possible to shift said mass, and having to force a 5 meter dia. aircraft body into a space defined
> by 3.6 meters between decks further impeded by the fact that there was floor truss structure.
> Under the stress of >40 g, the airliner would suffer catastrophic failure and do so very quickly, 
> that is before it had any chance of making that wing shaped gash in the building.


Why are you still here?

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## Rutabaga

> To address the part about how it really could not have been a commercial airliner
> we are talking about an aircraft allegedly traveling aprox 540 mph and striking a wall,
> there would be a huge jolt of initial deceleration, and then there would be continuous deceleration
> after that the initial jolt would be aprox 8 milliseconds of >100 g deceleration followed by at least another
> 50 milliseconds of >40 g deceleration, this would be product of having to shift the tons of mass required to
> make the hole in the side of the tower, and also the energy required to sheer off bolts as alleged in order
> to make it possible to shift said mass, and having to force a 5 meter dia. aircraft body into a space defined
> by 3.6 meters between decks further impeded by the fact that there was floor truss structure.
> Under the stress of >40 g, the airliner would suffer catastrophic failure and do so very quickly, 
> that is before it had any chance of making that wing shaped gash in the building.


ok, so you dont think planes hit the towers, despite thousands of witnesses to the contrary...

good to know...

anything else?

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Conservative Libertarian (02-11-2018)

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## Rutabaga

where are the posts i replied to?

when i try to link them from the post, i get this:



*vBulletin Message*No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

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## teeceetx

Oh gawd, another conspiracy thread about the towers.  What I watched on that day was entirely logical.  Two fully fueled airliners crashed into the towers.  The resulting inferno caused their collapse.  I predicted the first towers collapse after a couple minutes, given what I saw.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> ok, so you dont think planes hit the towers, despite thousands of witnesses to the contrary...
> 
> 
> Where do they come from anyway?
> 
> 
> good to know...
> 
> anything else?



It isn't that he doesn't think something hit the Tower, but that it wasn't an airliner.  A cruise missile?  But what could hit the building and leave the gash other than an airliner?  Does he seriously believe 3000 plus people are now hiding in the basement of the Pentagon so no one will know they are really not dead?
Although I once remember a cab driver telling me we had never been to the moon, that it was impossible.  He also said there was so many potatoes in the grocery stores because of the satellites creating an artificial gravity and pulling the young potatoes out of the ground. 

Seriously.

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frankmusic (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## n0spam4me

> ok, so you dont think planes hit the towers, despite thousands of witnesses to the contrary...
> 
> good to know...
> 
> anything else?


Where are these "thousands" of eye witnesses? where were they positioned?
did they have not only clear unobstructed view of the south wall of the south tower 
but were they in a position to clearly see/identify the airliner (and know for certain that it was an airliner)
and is it certain that all of these people possessed the observation skills to ID an airliner as opposed to 
another aircraft that may have been substituted by the perpetrators?
Also note that eye witnesses can ( and have been ) wrong on all sorts of occasions 
so when in doubt, refer to the video/photographic evidence and the video evidence clearly indicates something
that could not be any commercial airliner ever flown.

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## JMWinPR

> Really? How long were you there? Were you there during desert storm?


Yes, I'm sure we've discussed this. AAR I was in Jabal, a Marine loadout port. Our HQ was in Manama, we had to go there most everyday. The guys could drink there. As I was a non drinker I ended up as driver several times a week. Had an F250 club cab, painted an upside down V on each front door and drove like hell; stopping for no one or anything. It was always a site to see a Rolls on the shoulder with a green and white religious police doing a search. Seats, luggage, carpets piled high as they searched for contraband. Stopped at Kobar(sp) towers several times. It was built by the Saudis to house the Bedouins. They never used them as they couldn't get their camels up the stairs. I noticed what we call Spanish architecture is actually Arabic. The fences and walls so popular in Spanish colonies are also arabic. Manama was not bad but Saudi was a shithole.

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frankmusic (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-11-2018)

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## n0spam4me

Two things:

A: don't try to make this about me, doesn't work that way and only proves beyond any doubt that you really do not want to address the real issue.

B: don't try to tangent the discussion with anecdotes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I will tell you this, if people want to snipe about tangential beliefs, in that some people actually believe that a virgin had a baby.
this was mentioned ONLY by way of illustration, my intent is to focus upon the topic at hand and that is the physical anomalies 
in the 9/11/2001 events as reported in the mainstream media.

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## Rutabaga

> Where are these "thousands" of eye witnesses? where were they positioned?
> did they have not only clear unobstructed view of the south wall of the south tower 
> but were they in a position to clearly see/identify the airliner (and know for certain that it was an airliner)
> and is it certain that all of these people possessed the observation skills to ID an airliner as opposed to 
> another aircraft that may have been substituted by the perpetrators?
> Also note that eye witnesses can ( and have been ) wrong on all sorts of occasions 
> so when in doubt, refer to the video/photographic evidence and the video evidence clearly indicates something
> that could not be any commercial airliner ever flown.


ok, 

now what?

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## Rutabaga

> Two things:
> 
> A: don't try to make this about me, doesn't work that way and only proves beyond any doubt that you really do not want to address the real issue.
> 
> B: don't try to tangent the discussion with anecdotes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
> I will tell you this, if people want to snipe about tangential beliefs, in that some people actually believe that a virgin had a baby.
> this was mentioned ONLY by way of illustration, my intent is to focus upon the topic at hand and that is the physical anomalies 
> in the 9/11/2001 events as reported in the mainstream media.


the real issue is you have issues...but you're right, that's a whole other story...btw, you're physics is self serving thus only speculation...

do you have any witnesses who know what it was, who guided it and for what reason?

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## RobertLafollet

I saw the hits on live TV.  The Saudi's hijacked those airliners and flew them into the building.  Saudi Ben Laden a member of the family that through Carlyle employed Bush sr and had funded Bush Jr appears to have warned Bush jr to be out of town at the time.  Now I've heard enough from people I trust that it is possible that the buildings had been set up to react to the plane impacts or maybe they were just poorly built.  Then there is building 7 which was not hit but still collapsed.  No sign of a plane at the Pentagon.  The only people allowed to fly being Ben Laden's relatives in the US that the FBI wanted to question before they went back to Saudi Arabia.  

We know Ben Laden was CIA at one time.  Then he hides out for years in plain site maybe at a ranch in Crawford Texas.  

There are a lot of questions about that attack.  It let the Saudi knock a major competitor out of the market.  Gave G.W. a reason to go to war with non-involved Iraq and created a lot of our Middle East problems.  It helped enrich Saudi Arabia.   I really don't understand the physics of the buildings falling but when You start following who benefited three groups of people turn up.  Dick Cheny's family had a lot of Halliburton stock and Halliburton was a major beneficiary.  G.W. Bush he got 2 wars he wanted and probably won in 2004 because of those.  Saudi Arabia got higher oil prices and destroyed a major competitor and the only secular oil state.  The main loser was of course the US.

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## n0spam4me

> where are the posts i replied to?
> 
> when i try to link them from the post, i get this:
> 
> 
> 
> *vBulletin Message*
> 
> No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator


Somebody truncated this thread, oh well .....

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## n0spam4me

> ok, 
> 
> now what?


LOGIC, note that LOGIC that it is possible to KNOW 
that an illusion has been done, without having to explain how the illusion was done.
therefore, it is possible to KNOW that the events of 9/11/2001 as reported by the media
could not possibly have been straight-up as described, its FRAUD and this is so huge
that many people will fight tooth & nail to have it not be so, because it damages their world view.

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## Rutabaga

> Somebody truncated this thread, oh well .....


not just this thread, a "glitch" caused a minor deformation in the space/time continuum resulting in a hyper link aberration that created a worm hole to momentarily appear and swallow not only several posts in various outlying threads, but uranus as well...

spocks working on it...

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-11-2018),JMWinPR (02-12-2018)

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## Traddles

> not just this thread, a "glitch" caused a minor deformation in the space/time continuum resulting in a hyper link aberration that created a worm hole to momentarily appear and swallow not only several posts in various outlying threads, but uranus as well...
> 
> spocks working on it...



Either that or the thread got moved to a more appropriate forum. I prefer your hunch.

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## Rutabaga

> LOGIC, note that LOGIC that it is possible to KNOW 
> that an illusion has been done, without having to explain how the illusion was done.
> therefore, it is possible to KNOW that the events of 9/11/2001 as reported by the media
> could not possibly have been straight-up as described, its FRAUD and this is so huge
> that many people will fight tooth & nail to have it not be so, because it damages their world view.


i'm not the one fighting to preserve anything, you are..this conspiracy isn't anything new nor remarkable as its been hashed out here many times over the last several years...

no one, including you, have been able to answer my questions as to "what, who, and why"

don't shoot the messenger, just come up with a more sourced theory thats plausible...cause i've heard them all before...

you ask "whos these witnesses"? "where were they"?

really?

you haven't bothered to even research "who witnessed 9/11?"

you asked where are the videos, yet you supply one from youtube.

you think that's the only one?

sheese...

----------


## Dan40

> Two things:
> 
> A: don't try to make this about me, doesn't work that way and only proves beyond any doubt that you really do not want to address the real issue.
> 
> B: don't try to tangent the discussion with anecdotes that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
> I will tell you this, if people want to snipe about tangential beliefs, in that some people actually believe that a virgin had a baby.
> this was mentioned ONLY by way of illustration, my intent is to focus upon the topic at hand and that is the physical anomalies 
> in the 9/11/2001 events as reported in the mainstream media.


Go to the "Get a LIFE" store.  Buy whatever they have in stock, no matter how broken and/or twisted it may be.

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018),Northern Rivers (02-12-2018)

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> I saw the hits on live TV.  The Saudi's hijacked those airliners and flew them into the building.  Saudi Ben Laden a member of the family that through Carlyle employed Bush sr and had funded Bush Jr appears to have warned Bush jr to be out of town at the time.  Now I've heard enough from people I trust that it is possible that the buildings had been set up to react to the plane impacts or maybe they were just poorly built.  Then there is building 7 which was not hit but still collapsed.  No sign of a plane at the Pentagon.  The only people allowed to fly being Ben Laden's relatives in the US that the FBI wanted to question before they went back to Saudi Arabia.  
> 
> We know Ben Laden was CIA at one time.  Then he hides out for years in plain site maybe at a ranch in Crawford Texas.  
> 
> There are a lot of questions about that attack.  It let the Saudi knock a major competitor out of the market.  Gave G.W. a reason to go to war with non-involved Iraq and created a lot of our Middle East problems.  It helped enrich Saudi Arabia.   I really don't understand the physics of the buildings falling but when You start following who benefited three groups of people turn up.  Dick Cheny's family had a lot of Halliburton stock and Halliburton was a major beneficiary.  G.W. Bush he got 2 wars he wanted and probably won in 2004 because of those.  Saudi Arabia got higher oil prices and destroyed a major competitor and the only secular oil state.  The main loser was of course the US.




 :Stirthepot:  :Spacecraft:  :Tinfoil: 


 :Weedsmoking:  :Say What: 


This is really getting interesting

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-11-2018)

----------


## Calypso Jones

WEll...if you can prove GW Bush set up 911 and detonated those buildings, i'll be happy to go along with y'all charging him with it.

----------



----------


## n0spam4me

Fascinating 
Captain  ...... FASCINATING ... 
.
or something
......................... so everybody has heard it all before
and besides the whole of New York City witnessed the airliners crashing into the towers so the matter is settled.
.
.
.
right?
............. Like I have said before, there are people fighting tooth & nail to keep the official story
because to actually face the alternative, would seriously rain on your parade.  oh well .... nothing I can do

ya'll have a nice day : )

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Fascinating 
> Captain  ...... FASCINATING ... 
> .
> or something
> ......................... so everybody has heard it all before
> and besides the whole of New York City witnessed the airliners crashing into the towers so the matter is settled.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


You have been asked before, lets hear what you think. Explain your story and line of reasoning. Otherwise, this is little more than trolling.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-12-2018),Northern Rivers (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Northern Rivers

> Fascinating 
> Captain  ...... FASCINATING ... 
> .
> or something
> ......................... so everybody has heard it all before
> and besides the whole of New York City witnessed the airliners crashing into the towers so the matter is settled.
> .
> .
> .
> ...


It's pot...isn't it?????  :Weedsmoking:

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Marijuana. It is all because of marijuana.

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> You have been asked before, lets hear what you think. Explain your story and line of reasoning. Otherwise, this is little more than trolling.


I have explained the matter, did you read what I wrote? do you have specific questions?

----------


## Rutabaga

> I have explained the matter, did you read what I wrote? *do you have specific questions?*


*
*
*what* was flown into the buildings?

*who* was at the controls, either inside the object or by remote?

*why* was it done? [who benefitted]

there's 3 specific questions, just like you asked for.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-12-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> [/B]
> *what* was flown into the buildings?
> 
> *who* was at the controls, either inside the object or by remote?
> 
> *why* was it done? [who benefitted]
> 
> there's 3 specific questions, just like you asked for.


Thank you ever so much for proving that you have NOT read what I wrote.

----------


## Rutabaga

> Thank you ever so much for proving that you have NOT read what I wrote.


thank you for proving you remain clueless...

something i suspected all along...

----------


## NuYawka

> Where are these "thousands" of eye witnesses? where were they positioned?
> did they have not only clear unobstructed view of the south wall of the south tower 
> but were they in a position to clearly see/identify the airliner (and know for certain that it was an airliner)
> and is it certain that all of these people possessed the observation skills to ID an airliner as opposed to 
> another aircraft that may have been substituted by the perpetrators?
> Also note that eye witnesses can ( and have been ) wrong on all sorts of occasions 
> so when in doubt, refer to the video/photographic evidence and the video evidence clearly indicates something
> that could not be any commercial airliner ever flown.


I was there.

I saw the second plane hit Tower Two. I was driving towards the smoke coming from the first one when I saw the second plane approaching and then make impact.

My view was from the East, looking West, as I was in Brooklyn, but barely a mile from the river. 

It was a fuckin commercial airliner, with real human beings in it, undoubtedly screaming in sheer horror as they realized what was about to happen.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018),QuaseMarco (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> thank you for proving you remain clueless...
> 
> something i suspected all along...


You do of course realize that the questions that you raised 
have nothing to do with explaining the fact that the media lied about what happened.
can you get your head around LOGIC?

----------


## n0spam4me

> I was there.
> 
> I saw the second plane hit Tower Two. I was driving towards the smoke coming from the first one when I saw the second plane approaching and then make impact.
> 
> My view was from the East, looking West, as I was in Brooklyn, but barely a mile from the river. 
> 
> It was a fuckin commercial airliner, with real human beings in it, undoubtedly screaming in sheer horror as they realized what was about to happen.


Have you seen the Evan Fairbanks video?
was what you saw, the same as this video?
did you observe an alleged airliner penetrate a wall "like a hot knife through butter"?

----------


## QuaseMarco

> *wow man, do I gotta spoon feed this group*(?) :


*We were just baiting you the way you baited us!
*

----------


## Rutabaga

> You do of course realize that the questions that you raised 
> have nothing to do with e*xplaining the fact that the media lied about what happened.*
> can you get your head around LOGIC?



you do realize we only have your flapping gums to confirm your suspicions?


of course you don't realize that,,to do so would require logic..

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Have you seen the Evan Fairbanks video?
> was what you saw, the same as this video?
> did you observe an alleged airliner penetrate a wall "like a hot knife through butter"?


what did you see in the video?

----------


## n0spam4me

> *We were just baiting you the way you baited us!
> *


For me, this has nothing at all to do with "baiting"

----------


## n0spam4me

> what did you see in the video?


Do you notice in the video, an alleged airliner penetrating a wall and not showing any initial jolt on contact,
no slowing down as it penetrates, no breaking apart and shedding aircraft wreckage on the entry side of the hole.
the alleged airliner was doing a very good impersonation of a hardened steel punch, propelled by some huge force.
why should anybody expect a real airliner to perform in this manner?

----------


## Rutabaga

> I was there.
> 
> I saw the second plane hit Tower Two. I was driving towards the smoke coming from the first one when I saw the second plane approaching and then make impact.
> 
> My view was from the East, looking West, as I was in Brooklyn, but barely a mile from the river. 
> 
> It was a fuckin commercial airliner, with real human beings in it, undoubtedly screaming in sheer horror as they realized what was about to happen.


he doesn't believe there were ANY witnesses to it...he thinks its all photoshopped...

 :Loco:

----------

NuYawka (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Do you notice in the video, an alleged airliner penetrating a wall and not showing any initial jolt on contact,
> no slowing down as it penetrates, no breaking apart and shedding aircraft wreckage on the entry side of the hole.
> the alleged airliner was doing a very good impersonation of a hardened steel punch, propelled by some huge force.
> why should anybody expect a real airliner to perform in this manner?


so what was it?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Do you notice in the video, an alleged airliner penetrating a wall and not showing any initial jolt on contact,
> no slowing down as it penetrates, no breaking apart and shedding aircraft wreckage on the entry side of the hole.
> the alleged airliner was doing a very good impersonation of a hardened steel punch, propelled by some huge force.
> why should anybody expect a real airliner to perform in this manner?



do you know water is used to cut steel and concrete? no blades, just water...

think about that as it relates to pressure and speed...

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-12-2018),East of the Beast (02-12-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> he doesn't believe there were ANY witnesses to it...he thinks its all photoshopped...


and exactly in what way does your speculation ad relevant content to this discussion?

----------


## n0spam4me

> do you water is used to cut steel and concrete? no blades, just water...
> 
> think about that as it relates to pressure and speed...


This has been brought up before, and I ask you to examine the feed rates for your "water cutting" bits and also note that these methods require special set-ups to accomplish, the airliner cutting into a skyscraper is a totally different sort of event.

I notice also you mention "pressure & speed" like as in OOOH the airplane was going SOOO FAST ..... 
what happens when you consider the equal and opposite reaction principle?

----------


## Rutabaga

> and exactly in what way does your speculation ad relevant content to this discussion?


LOL!

now you're just running in circles attempting to avoid the only pertinent questions relating to 9/11...what, how, why...

----------


## Rutabaga

> This has been brought up before, and I ask you to examine the feed rates for your "water cutting" bits and also note that these methods require special set-ups to accomplish, the airliner cutting into a skyscraper is a totally different sort of event.
> 
> I notice also you mention "pressure & speed" like as in OOOH the airplane was going SOOO FAST ..... 
> what happens when you consider the equal and opposite reaction principle?


"water cutting bits"?  no bits, just nozzles...

yep, the "object" was going pretty fast, dont ya think?

what happens when you consider it was an airplane?

----------


## n0spam4me

> LOL!
> 
> now you're just running in circles attempting to avoid the only pertinent questions relating to 9/11...what, how, why...


You have made an assumption that the show-stopper questions about 9/11 are who and why etc... 
however given the absolute certain knowledge that the alleged airliners were most certainly not airliners
this is proof sufficient to launch a real investigation.

----------


## n0spam4me

> "water cutting bits"?  no bits, just nozzles...
> 
> yep, the "object" was going pretty fast, dont ya think?
> 
> what happens when you consider it was an airplane?


Equal and opposite reaction ..... do you get what is required by the laws of physics?

given that there was sufficient force & time to punch a hole in a wall, that is displace mass ( etc ... ) 
then there was sufficient force & time to break the airliner.

LOGIC

----------


## Rutabaga

> You have made an assumption that the show-stopper questions about 9/11 are who and why etc... 
> *however given the absolute certain knowledge that the alleged airliners were most certainly not airliners
> *this is proof sufficient to launch a real investigation.


most scientists don't agree with YOUR conclusion...

never mind the thousands of people who actually witnessed it firsthand...

so launch another investigation...everybody needs a hobby, this could be yours...

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Equal and opposite reaction ..... do you get what is required by the laws of physics?
> 
> given that there was sufficient force & time to punch a hole in a wall, that is displace mass ( etc ... ) 
> then there was sufficient force & time to break the airliner.
> 
> LOGIC


what you dont know of physics could fill volumes...

why does a copper and lead bullet break apart upon hitting soft flesh?

----------

NuYawka (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> "water cutting bits"?  no bits, just nozzles...
> 
> yep, the "object" was going pretty fast, dont ya think?
> 
> what happens when you consider it was an airplane?


You do realize that water jet cutting feed rates are specified in inches/minute ..... right?

----------


## n0spam4me

> what you dont know of physics could fill volumes...
> 
> why does a copper and lead bullet break apart upon hitting soft flesh?


Hollow point bullets, note that the nose of an airliner is hollow.

----------


## n0spam4me

> most scientists don't agree with YOUR conclusion...
> 
> never mind the thousands of people who actually witnessed it firsthand...
> 
> so launch another investigation...everybody needs a hobby, this could be yours...


You continue on with that mantra of "so many eye witnesses" 
however eye witnesses can ( and all too often ) are found to be wrong
so the critical piece of information is in the video of the event.
and when the video {+ the interpretation of said video } 
shows something that would have to involve a violation of the laws of physics,
well then its time to re-examine what we think we know about the event.

----------


## Rutabaga

> You do realize that water jet cutting feed rates are specified in inches/minute ..... right?


yes..whats your point?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Hollow point bullets, note that the nose of an airliner is hollow.


not all are hollow points, yet all deform or break apart upon impact...

copper/lead vs soft flesh..

what are the dynamics occurring here that cause the break/deformations?

----------


## n0spam4me

> yes..whats your point?


Point is that bringing up water jet cutting is not relevant to this discussion 
The facts are very clear, in the equal and opposite reaction to a collision of an airliner against a skyscraper wall.
the airliner would have to show visible damage and parts of the airliner breaking away to be left on the entry side of the hole,
rather than the entire airliner penetrating the wall "like a hot knife through butter"

----------


## n0spam4me

> not all are hollow points, yet all deform or break apart upon impact...
> 
> copper/lead vs soft flesh..
> 
> what are the dynamics occurring here that cause the break/deformations?


In ballistic jell experiments conducted by the MYTHBUSTERS, bullets that are solid led and having a copper jacket, only deform when they encounter sufficient resistance to cause deformation.  Given that there are a number of documented cases where bird strikes have dented the nose of an airliner, it is known that it doesn't take all that much mass to cause damage to an airliner nose, so WHY was it alleged that the airliner could have penetrated a skyscraper wall as was reported in the "news"?

----------


## Rutabaga

> You continue on with that mantra of "so many eye witnesses" 
> however eye witnesses can ( and all too often ) are found to be wrong
> so the critical piece of information is in the video of the event.
> and when the video {+ the interpretation of said video } 
> *shows something that would have to involve a violation of the laws of physics,*
> well then its time to re-examine what we think we know about the event.


that's YOUR opinion...opinions are NOT facts, that's why they are called OPINIONS...

i could very easily link you to numerous studies, reports etc. that come to the conclusion that airliners struck the buildings...from scientists, physicists and demolition experts.

i could, but you could find them just as easily...

you NEED to believe what you WANT to believe to feed whatever drives you...

that's something that wont be corrected by talking online to strangers.

----------


## Rutabaga

> In ballistic jell experiments conducted by the MYTHBUSTERS, bullets that are solid led and having a copper jacket, only deform when they encounter sufficient resistance to cause deformation.  Given that there are a number of documented cases where bird strikes have dented the nose of an airliner, it is known that it doesn't take all that much mass to cause damage to an airliner nose, so WHY was it alleged that the airliner could have penetrated a skyscraper wall as was reported in the "news"?


so you think the "object" if it was indeed an aircraft would have just crumpled and slid down the side upon impact?

okey dokey...

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> ]Point is that bringing up water jet cutting is not relevant to this discussion 
> [/B]The facts are very clear, in the equal and opposite reaction to a collision of an airliner against a skyscraper wall.
> the airliner would have to show visible damage and parts of the airliner breaking away to be left on the entry side of the hole,
> rather than the entire airliner penetrating the wall "like a hot knife through butter"


again,,that's your opinion, one i don't share..

----------


## tiny1

What is really humorous is that they think you can implode a 100 story skyscraper, without anyone noticing the demolition chaps wiring tons of explosives. :Smiley ROFLMAO:    They seem to think it can work like "Die Hard" and a crew of a dozen criminals can wire that building precisely enough to bring the building straight down. :Thumbsup20:   Oh, and what about permits?  SOMEONE in that building is gonna "upfit" a unit or twelve, and believe me the inspectors would catch that something was up.
They have to cut steel beams and weaken the concrete "core".  Then, they must keep hundreds of people quiet.  What if Oprah offers 10 million for info they have?  They'd come out of the woodwork.
Then, the residue.  Surely you don't think plastic explosives leave no traces?  C'mon man.  It is OK to hate the Gooberment, but Puhleeze.  

Reality must be for those who can't handle Drugs.

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-12-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> so you think the "object" if it was indeed an aircraft would have just crumpled and slid down the side upon impact?
> 
> okey dokey...


a LOT depends on strength of materials 
and as opposed to the "penetration like a hot knife through butter"
the scenario where the airliner crushes against the side of the tower and falls to street level is far more plausible.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> a LOT depends on strength of materials 
> and as opposed to the "penetration like a hot knife through butter"
> the scenario where the airliner crushes against the side of the tower and falls to street level is far more plausible.


So, where is it?  Wouldn't it have been found, almost completely intact under your theory?  Or was there no airplane at all, it was all something else, something far more sinister.

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> a LOT depends on strength of materials 
> and as opposed to the "penetration like a hot knife through butter"
> the scenario where the airliner crushes against the side of the tower and falls to street level is far more plausible.


aircraft aluminum and beer cans are not the same aluminum...aircraft aluminum is as light as other aluminum but as strong as most steel...thats why its used to make plane frames, bodies and not used for cans...light weight yet strong as steel...technology..

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

The towers consisted of a steel core surrounded by a lot of open space (the offices) with windows on the outside. Yes, Virginia, a 767 can go through glass and air.

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-12-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Dan40

> The towers consisted of a steel core surrounded by a lot of open space (the offices) with windows on the outside. Yes, Virginia, a 767 can go through glass and air.


The twin towers were built using the exoskeleton construction.  This allows wide open spaces as all the building strength is in the outer walls and there is no inner core, only elevator and service shafts.



Once the outer walls were breached, support for everything above was compromised.  As the building started to collapse the weight of the floors above blew out the containing/supporting outside walls.  Once that started the building HAD to continue to fall as the falling weights became greater and greater.  The exoskeleton then just kept the buildings falling straight down

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> The twin towers were built using the exoskeleton construction.  This allows wide open spaces as all the building strength is in the outer walls and there is no inner core, only elevator and service shafts.
> 
> 
> 
> Once the outer walls were breached, support for everything above was compromised.  As the building started to collapse the weight of the floors above blew out the containing/supporting outside walls.  Once that started the building HAD to continue to fall as the falling weights became greater and greater.  The exoskeleton then just kept the buildings falling straight down


I knew something was surrounded. Thanks!

----------


## Dan40

> a LOT depends on strength of materials 
> and as opposed to the "penetration like a hot knife through butter"
> the scenario where the airliner crushes against the side of the tower and falls to street level is far more plausible.


Examples of flimsy and weak aircraft aluminum.




*This message is hidden because n0spam4me is on your ignore list.*

Maybe when you grow up you can see the inside of a real airplane.
Cannot debate logic with the contingently illogical.

----------


## Kodiak

> What is really humorous is that they think you can implode a 100 story skyscraper, without anyone noticing the demolition chaps wiring tons of explosives.   They seem to think it can work like "Die Hard" and a crew of a dozen criminals can wire that building precisely enough to bring the building straight down.  Oh, and what about permits?  SOMEONE in that building is gonna "upfit" a unit or twelve, and believe me the inspectors would catch that something was up.
> They have to cut steel beams and weaken the concrete "core".  Then, they must keep hundreds of people quiet.  What if Oprah offers 10 million for info they have?  They'd come out of the woodwork.
> Then, the residue.  Surely you don't think plastic explosives leave no traces?  C'mon man.  It is OK to hate the Gooberment, but Puhleeze.  
> 
> Reality must be for those who can't handle Drugs.


I always question these conspiracies and WHY someone (government?) would go through such a dramatic fraud.  So GW could go to war with Iraq?  Makes no sense.

----------


## TPP

> aircraft aluminum and beer cans are not the same aluminum...aircraft aluminum is as light as other aluminum but as strong as most steel...thats why its used to make plane frames, bodies and not used for cans...light weight yet strong as steel...technology..



Stronger by weight but not by volume, that's why highly stressed parts like landing gear are made with steel. A steel beam is stronger than an aluminum beam of the same size, but much heavier.

----------


## TPP

> You continue on with that mantra of "so many eye witnesses" 
> however eye witnesses can ( and all too often ) are found to be wrong
> so the critical piece of information is in the video of the event.
> and when the video {+ the interpretation of said video } 
> shows something that would have to involve a violation of the laws of physics,
> well then its time to re-examine what we think we know about the event.


You continue with the mantra that all the people on those aircraft and their families never existed. Why should anyone show you credibility or respect.

----------


## n0spam4me

> I always question these conspiracies and WHY someone (government?) would go through such a dramatic fraud.  So GW could go to war with Iraq?  Makes no sense.


incredibility over motivation or logistics in no way negates observed phenomenon.

----------


## n0spam4me

> You continue with the mantra that all the people on those aircraft and their families never existed. Why should anyone show you credibility or respect.


The airliners full of people, could have been diverted by the perpetrators, or may not have ever existed, the bottom line here is that the events as observed clearly indicate that airliners were not used as weapons.  Note the characteristics of the "FLT11" "FLT175" & "FLT77" crashes.

----------


## TPP

> The airliners full of people, could have been diverted by the perpetrators, or may not have ever existed, the bottom line here is that the events as observed clearly indicate that airliners were not used as weapons.


Bullshit.




> Note the characteristics of the "FLT11" "FLT175" & "FLT77" crashes.




OOOO, two numbers have 7's and two have 1's. WTF is that supposed to signify?

Those weren't special flight numbers made up for that day, they are the same every day

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> incredibility over motivation or logistics in no way negates observed phenomenon.


and the observed phenomenon was 2 planes crashing into the towers.

now what?

----------


## Rutabaga

> The airliners full of people, could have been diverted by the perpetrators, or may not have ever existed, t*he bottom line here is that the events as observed clearly indicate that airliners were not used as weapons.*  Note the characteristics of the "FLT11" "FLT175" & "FLT77" crashes.


ok,,so what were they?

----------


## n0spam4me

> ok,,so what were they?


Common characteristic of all three named alleged airliner crashes 
being that the alleged airliner was said to have punched a hole in a wall, and then the entire aircraft ( or at least 99% of said aircraft ) 
entered the building through said hole and the robust fireball waited until the plane was completely inside the building to erupt.
to have one random event happen and people may say "it could happen like that" however to have 3 on the same day.
NO! not at all, way beyond anything that is probable or plausible.  its all B movie special effects.

----------


## Rutabaga

> Common characteristic of all three named alleged airliner crashes 
> being that the alleged airliner was said to have punched a hole in a wall, and then the entire aircraft ( or at least 99% of said aircraft ) 
> entered the building through said hole and the robust fireball waited until the plane was completely inside the building to erupt.
> to have one random event happen and people may say "it could happen like that" however to have 3 on the same day.
> NO! not at all, way beyond anything that is probable or plausible.  its all B movie special effects.


ok...

now what?



btw, do you believe man landed on the moon and the earth is kinda round?

----------


## TPP

> Common characteristic of all three named alleged airliner crashes 
> being that the alleged airliner was said to have punched a hole in a wall, and then the entire aircraft ( or at least 99% of said aircraft ) 
> entered the building through said hole and the robust fireball waited until the plane was completely inside the building to erupt.
> to have one random event happen and people may say "it could happen like that" however to have 3 on the same day.
> NO! not at all, way beyond anything that is probable or plausible.  its all B movie special effects.


Answer the question.

----------


## n0spam4me

> ok...
> 
> now what?
> 
> 
> 
> btw, do you believe man landed on the moon and the earth is kinda round?


we have been over this ground at least once before, note that some people believe that a virgin had a baby
and does that necessarily impose upon the fact that any given believer may or may not be a Democrat or Republican?
.
Fact is in reference to your "now what" statement, note that it can be proven beyond any doubt that airliners were not used as weapons.
and any tangent demanding the info as to exactly what ( if anything ) did hit the towers,
 is subordinate to the fact that airliners were not used in the attack.  This is known because airliners could not perform as was alleged
for the various flights that were said to have penetrated walls that day.

----------


## Rutabaga

> we have been over this ground at least once before, note that some people believe that a virgin had a baby
> and does that necessarily impose upon the fact that any given believer may or may not be a Democrat or Republican?
> .
> *Fact is in reference to your "now what" statement, note that it can be proven beyond any doubt that airliners were not used as weapons.
> *and any tangent demanding the info as to exactly what ( if anything ) did hit the towers,
>  is subordinate to the fact that airliners were not used in the attack.  This is known because airliners could not perform as was alleged
> for the various flights that were said to have penetrated walls that day.



opinions are like assholes,,everybody has one...you got yours, i got mine, scooby doo has his...

what about the moon and earth?

whats your opinion on the 2 questions i posed above?

----------


## TPP

What happened to the people?

You can't prove anything of the sort.

----------


## tiny1

Effing conspiracy theorists.  Sheesh.

Don't they know you cannot hide 3000 dead people.  I have 2 friends who died there.  One was killed in the collapse, and the other died of complications to his respiration several days later.
There were many many phone calls made from those planes.  They have records.  Even the hijackers can be heard, since their "crash course" in avionics did not include the radio system. 
Friggin' Chicken Littles.
I'd really like to grab one by the neck, and let him wiggle himself to death.

----------


## n0spam4me

> What happened to the people?
> 
> You can't prove anything of the sort.


Note that if you have just returned to your car after seeing a movie and notice that a window has been broken
so you know right away that a crime has been committed be it simple vandalism or attempted grand-theft-auto,
so right away you have INFORMATION from observation, you do not need to know exactly how it was done, that 
is did the perpetrator use a rock or a hammer to break your window.   You KNOW some things right away.
so now, we have video that is allegedly an airliner penetrating a wall, ok, what can we observe about this video(?)
note that in the process of penetrating the wall, there is no visible slowing down of the alleged airliner, note also
that there is no apparent damage to the airliner in that there is no shedding of wreckage on the entry side of the hole.
additionally note that in 3 recorded alleged airliner crashes, the fireball of a jet fuel explosion waits until the aircraft
or alleged aircraft is completely inside the building before igniting. These crashes ( or alleged crashes more properly ) 
were choreographed & produced for theatrical effect, staged ... like an illusion presented by a stage performer.

----------


## TPP

Answer the question. What happened to the people?

----------


## n0spam4me

> Effing conspiracy theorists.  Sheesh.
> 
> Don't they know you cannot hide 3000 dead people.  I have 2 friends who died there.  One was killed in the collapse, and the other died of complications to his respiration several days later.
> There were many many phone calls made from those planes.  They have records.  Even the hijackers can be heard, since their "crash course" in avionics did not include the radio system. 
> Friggin' Chicken Littles.
> I'd really like to grab one by the neck, and let him wiggle himself to death.


I'm sorry .... You seem to believe that the alleged phone calls from the alleged airliners 
constitutes proof that the official story is true.
.
however, treating this as a murder investigation, one may well ask, where is the murder weapon?
what proof do we have that said weapon ever even existed at all?
what  do you have?

----------


## TPP

Answer the question. What happened to the people?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Note that if you have just returned to your car after seeing a movie and notice that a window has been broken
> so you know right away that a crime has been committed be it simple vandalism or attempted grand-theft-auto,
> so right away you have INFORMATION from observation, you do not need to know exactly how it was done, that 
> is did the perpetrator use a rock or a hammer to break your window.   You KNOW some things right away.
> so now, we have video that is allegedly an airliner penetrating a wall, ok, what can we observe about this video(?)
> note that in the process of penetrating the wall, there is no visible slowing down of the alleged airliner, note also
> that there is no apparent damage to the airliner in that there is no shedding of wreckage on the entry side of the hole.
> additionally note that in 3 recorded alleged airliner crashes, the fireball of a jet fuel explosion waits until the aircraft
> or alleged aircraft is completely inside the building before igniting. These crashes ( or alleged crashes more properly ) 
> *were choreographed & produced for theatrical effect, staged ... like an illusion presented by a stage performer.*


*
*
you really believe that, huh...

are you a flat earther as well, as a moon landing hoaxologist?

----------


## Rutabaga

> I'm sorry .... You seem to believe that the alleged phone calls from the alleged airliners 
> constitutes proof that the official story is true.
> .
> however, treating this as a murder investigation, one may well ask, where is the murder weapon?
> what proof do we have that said weapon ever even existed at all?
> what  do you have?


what proof do you have you are conversing with a rutabaga?

----------


## n0spam4me

> [/B]
> you really believe that, huh...
> 
> are you a flat earther as well, as a moon landing hoaxologist?


Do tell, do you believe that a virgin had a baby?

& BTW: as one who has traveled extensively ( southern hemisphere included ) I have no doubt at all that the earth is round.
now can we get on with the topic at hand without tangents about what other beliefs any given individual may hold
do you want to know if I'm a Pastafarian?
.
and "you really believe that, huh... " does NOT constitute a rebuttal, what do you have ( if anything ) as an actual rebuttal.?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Do tell, do you believe that a virgin had a baby?
> 
> & BTW: as one who has traveled extensively ( southern hemisphere included ) I have no doubt at all that the earth is round.
> now can we get on with the topic at hand without tangents about what other beliefs any given individual may hold
> do you want to know if I'm a Pastafarian?
> .
> and "you really believe that, huh... " does NOT constitute a rebuttal, what do you have ( if anything ) as an actual rebuttal.?


i'm not a particularly religious tuber...

there is no rebuttal for crazy.

i'm just having some fun...

you?

----------


## Traddles

> ... do you want to know if I'm a Pastafarian?


We only worry about Marinaran Pastafarians around here.

----------


## n0spam4me

"there is no rebuttal for crazy."  Cheep shot, You can not parse out the physics of what should have happened Vs what was alleged to have happened in the case of the alleged airliner crashes .... Really dude?

----------


## TPP

What happened to the people?

----------


## NuYawka

> "there is no rebuttal for crazy."  Cheep shot, You can not parse out the physics of what should have happened Vs what was alleged to have happened in the case of the alleged airliner crashes .... Really dude?


And you expect us to invest in a theory from someone who can't even spell the word 'cheap'?

----------



----------


## n0spam4me

> And you expect us to invest in a theory from someone who can't even spell the word 'cheap'?


So the opposition is down to grasping at straws, ( kvetching about my spelling ) rather that actually address the issue....

----------


## Rutabaga

> "there is no rebuttal for crazy."  Cheep shot, You can not parse out the physics of what should have happened Vs what was alleged to have happened in the case of the alleged airliner crashes .... Really dude?


remember our conversation about opinions?

dont take it personally, its just an observation...

----------


## tiny1

> I'm sorry .... You seem to believe that the alleged phone calls from the alleged airliners 
> constitutes proof that the official story is true.
> .
> however, treating this as a murder investigation, one may well ask, where is the murder weapon?
> what proof do we have that said weapon ever even existed at all?
> what  do you have?


I have two frickin' dead friends you conspiracy nut.  I have grieving widows and their fatherless children to think of every Holiday.  And they have nothing but the memories of their father's love.  
And along comes a boy with an axe to grind, who tries to replace their memories with  bafflegag political conspiracy.  Putz.

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018),NuYawka (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## TPP

> So the opposition is down to grasping at straws, ( kvetching about my spelling ) rather that actually address the issue....


How about addressing what happened to the people.

----------


## Rutabaga

> So the opposition is down to grasping at straws, ( kvetching about my spelling ) rather that actually address the issue....


how can one oppose nonsense?

its illogical to even try.

you have stated that your OPINION is nothing hit the towers...

there's no way to refute another's opinion...not mine, not yours...

now what?

we can sling verbal arrows at each other, that's fun...

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> So the opposition is down to grasping at straws, ( kvetching about my spelling ) rather that actually address the issue....


i know you have had the same problems on the other sites you have visited..

ever wonder why that was the case?

----------


## NuYawka

> So the opposition is down to grasping at straws, ( kvetching about my spelling ) rather that actually address the issue....


Sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone that can't spell the simplest of words.

Actually, I'm not sorry.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Sorry, but I can't take seriously anyone that can't spell the simplest of words.
> 
> Actually, I'm not sorry.


dude, your loss, You could actually engage in the debate and have had the opportunity to offer up information
as well as become educated on the subject, however your rejection is clearly an indication of a closed mind.
possibly a product of the on-going psychological warfare.  You know about the origin of the pejorative "conspiracy theory"
right?

----------


## n0spam4me

> i know you have had the same problems on the other sites you have visited..
> 
> ever wonder why that was the case?


Because people are totally victimized by the big bamboozle and so do not want to engage on the topic 
but instead would much rather grab at any excuse to not engage and thereby dismiss any possibility that 
they may learn the real truth.   is a comforting lie, easier to live with than some very unsettling facts?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Because people are totally victimized by the big bamboozle and so do not want to engage on the topic 
> but instead would much rather grab at any excuse to not engage and thereby dismiss any possibility that 
> they may learn the real truth.   is a comforting lie, easier to live with than some very unsettling facts?


you haven't presented any facts onlymore with the opinions...sigh...

lets examine this further:

heres a video with sound:

----------


## NuYawka

> dude, your loss, You could actually engage in the debate ...


When I see one, I'll let you know.

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> ok...
> 
> now what?
> 
> 
> 
> btw, do you believe man landed on the moon and the earth is kinda round?


When did that happen????

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> When did that happen????


rumors have it that it was last tuesday, right after my siesta...

----------


## n0spam4me

> When did that happen????


Logic people .... LOGIC
it is possible to KNOW that something is an illusion, without having to describe how it was done
suffice to say that it can be known that an illusion has been done.

----------


## Rutabaga

heres one on WHY aluminum could have helped bring the towers down:

[but then you have to consider something hit them to begin with, which you dont]

----------



----------


## n0spam4me

> you haven't presented any facts onlymore with the opinions...sigh...
> 
> lets examine this further:
> 
> heres a video with sound:


This video is useless because it does NOT show the south wall of the south tower, you can not examine the penetration event.
so for all anyone knows, the aircraft ( if it was an aircraft in the picture ) could have made a sharp turn to the west at the same time a bomb went off in the tower.  The ONLY videos that are relevant as evidence are the ones that show the south wall of the south tower.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Question

Did the Twin Towers fall or was all this just a David Copperfield illusion?  Damn good trick in my opinion.  I have been to the WTC site after 9/11 and saw not only the hole but the damage done to the adjacent buildings which are rarely mentioned.  The WTC were not the only buildings damaged by the imaginary aircraft.

But, in the grandest tradition of the Conspiracy Loon, the lack of evidence of a conspiracy shows just how deep the conspiracy extends.

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Logic people .... LOGIC
> it is possible to KNOW that something is an illusion, without having to describe how it was done
> suffice to say that it can be known that an illusion has been done.


"illusion, delusion"

odd how similar they are, huh...

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018)

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> rumors have it that it was last tuesday, right after my siesta...



So, that's why we had the eclipse?  Someone landed on the moon and turned the light off?

----------

Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> This video is useless because it does NOT show the south wall of the south tower, you can not examine the penetration event.
> so for all anyone knows, the aircraft ( if it was an aircraft in the picture ) could have made a sharp turn to the west at the same time a bomb went off in the tower.  The ONLY videos that are relevant as evidence are the ones that show the south wall of the south tower.


in your opinion...

----------


## n0spam4me

> heres one on WHY aluminum could have helped bring the towers down:
> 
> [but then you have to consider something hit them to begin with, which you dont]


and this effect of having the aluminum act as an explosive inside the building is a fascinating idea, however,
in order to have the building completely destroyed and at the speed and manner of the destruction, the explosion events
throughout the towers would have had to have been uniformly distributed so as to mimic perfectly the action of a controlled demolition.

----------


## Rutabaga

> So, that's why we had the eclipse?  Someone landed on the moon and turned the light off?


only on the dark side...

----------


## n0spam4me

> in your opinion...


So in the court of public opinion, YOU that is YOU personally are willing to accept incomplete evidence and much hand waving from the prosecution, without question at all .... right?

----------


## Rutabaga

> and this effect of having the aluminum act as an explosive inside the building is a fascinating idea, however,
> in order to have the building completely destroyed and at the speed and manner of the destruction, the explosion events
> throughout the towers would have had to have been uniformly distributed so as to mimic perfectly the action of a controlled demolition.


in your opinion...

----------


## n0spam4me

> only on the dark side...


Focus Pinky ..... FOCUS!

----------


## Rutabaga

> So in the court of public opinion, YOU that is YOU personally are willing to accept incomplete evidence and much hand waving from the prosecution, without question at all .... right?


we are discussing it now,,where ya been?

you provide opinion, i provide opinion, whats not to love?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Focus Pinky ..... FOCUS!


pinky?

LOL!

we're ALL pink inside...

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> only on the dark side...


How do we know there is a "dark side"?  Maybe the moon only has one side.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> So in the court of public opinion, YOU that is YOU personally are willing to accept incomplete evidence and much hand waving from the prosecution, without question at all .... right?



LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL 

You funny man, you know that?  And I don't necessarily mean ha ha funny.

----------


## Rutabaga

> How do we know there is a "dark side"?  Maybe the moon only has one side.


don't be silly, of course there's another side...i got a picture of it:

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL 
> 
> You funny man, you know that?  And I don't necessarily mean ha ha funny.


we are getting close to the "its obvious you dont want to discuss the issue, i've spent enough time trying to educate you idiots, blah-blah-blah"...

then exit, stage right...

[wait for it]

----------


## n0spam4me

So, people really do not want to have a discussion about a matter that is not only national security, but human race security.
and people just keep cracking lame jokes and treating the subject like its nothing.

The perpetrators lied to the entire planet about this. and the consequences are perpetual war.

what are YOU going to do?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> So, people really do not want to have a discussion about a matter that is not only national security, but human race security.
> and people just keep cracking lame jokes and treating the subject like its nothing.
> 
> The perpetrators lied to the entire planet about this. and the consequences are perpetual war.
> 
> what are YOU going to do?


Put you on ignore for a start.

----------


## Rutabaga

> *So, people really do not want to have a discussion about a matter that is not only national security, but human race security.*
> and people just keep cracking lame jokes and treating the subject like its nothing.
> 
> The perpetrators lied to the entire planet about this. and the consequences are perpetual war.
> 
> what are YOU going to do?



THAR SHE BLOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :Headbang:

----------


## Rutabaga

> So, people really do not want to have a discussion about a matter that is not only national security, but human race security.
> and people just keep cracking lame jokes and treating the subject like its nothing.
> 
> The perpetrators lied to the entire planet about this. and the consequences are perpetual war.
> 
> *what are YOU going to do*?


me personally?

i'm going to drink some wine and eat some cheese...

what are *you* gonna do?

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018)

----------


## East of the Beast

I’m gonna fart like there ain’t no tomorrow.

----------

frankmusic (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> I’m gonna fart like there ain’t no tomorrow.


so it was YOU that brought the towers down?


at least it wasnt a bunch of muzzies in some planes....

----------


## n0spam4me

as for me, I will continue to attempt to raise awareness of the big bamboozle
and hope that some people will actually look into this matter, remember
the worlds greatest military power FAILED to defend even its own HQ
your tax dollars at work, a huge war machine that either was a willing participant 
in a FALSE FLAG, or so totally incompetent as to be a waste of $$$!
Not to mention a million or more dead civilians in foreign countries because of the "war on terror".
are you not in the tiniest bit concerned about any of this?

----------


## NuYawka

> as for me, I will continue to attempt to raise awareness of the big bamboozle
> and hope that some people will actually look into this matter, remember
> the worlds greatest military power FAILED to defend even its own HQ
> your tax dollars at work, a huge war machine that either was a willing participant 
> in a FALSE FLAG, or so totally incompetent as to be a waste of $$$!
> Not to mention a million or more dead civilians in foreign countries because of the "war on terror".
> are you not in the tiniest bit concerned about any of this?


Sentences are supposed to begin with capital letters.

----------


## Rutabaga

> as for me, I will continue to attempt to raise awareness of the big bamboozle
> and hope that some people will actually look into this matter, remember
> the worlds greatest military power FAILED to defend even its own HQ
> your tax dollars at work, a huge war machine that either was a willing participant 
> in a FALSE FLAG, or so totally incompetent as to be a waste of $$$!
> Not to mention a million or more dead civilians in foreign countries because of the "war on terror".
> are you not in the tiniest bit concerned about any of this?


i'm concerned about you..

do you have medical ins.?

----------


## n0spam4me

> i'm concerned about you..
> 
> do you have medical ins.?


bask in your own personal "attaboy" points for managing to destroy what could have been a valuable awareness raising.
however on other forums, I can see that my posts have achieved 10,000 views a week, and though that is not huge by commercial standards
is significant for the movement.  Do you seek truth? do you want to know for certain if the "news" is really news and not just propaganda?

----------


## Rutabaga

> bask in your own personal "attaboy" points for managing to destroy what could have been a valuable awareness raising.
> however on other forums, I can see that my posts have achieved 10,000 views a week, and though that is not huge by commercial standards
> is significant for the movement.  Do you seek truth? do you want to know for certain if the "news" is really news and not just propaganda?


good for you!

you are a success in your own reality!

you're my new hero!

 :Headbang:

----------


## n0spam4me

> good for you!
> 
> you are a success in your own reality!
> 
> you're my new hero!


Right, sure & U betcha! 
I really do not need "fans" like you
anti-productive in the search for real truth
you make a hobby out of making noise on forums so that no real discussion can take place
are you proud of yourself?

----------


## n0spam4me

> I’m gonna fart like there ain’t no tomorrow.


do tell, do you think your Deity would consider it responsible of you to deal with an event such as this with such lack of concern?
is it not a duty of human kind to use the intellect that our creator endowed us with, rather than forgo its use and not investigate 
our world and all observed phenomenon?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Right, sure & U betcha! 
> I really do not need "fans" like you
> anti-productive in the search for real truth
> you make a hobby out of making noise on forums so that no real discussion can take place
> are you proud of yourself?


awww, nospam, [can i call you nospam?] don't get so upset...

i'm just fucking with you...

now, what about those planes?

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> do tell, do you think your Deity would consider it responsible of you to deal with an event such as this with such lack of concern?
> is it not a duty of human kind to use the intellect that our creator endowed us with, rather than forgo its use and not investigate 
> our world and all observed phenomenon?


do you believe in god?

----------


## Dan40

> incredibility over motivation or logistics in no way negates observed phenomenon.


Mommy wrote that quite nicely.

Post#108 explains how and why the twin towers came down.  Those with very limited knowledge of construction methods will continue to wallow in immeasurably stupid conspiracy bullshit.

What conspiracy wackos SHOULD be excited about is the obama/clinton conspiracy to subvert the Constitution and the USA.  The first, REAL, provable, 'government against the people' conspiracy in our history.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-12-2018),Rutabaga (02-12-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Mommy wrote that quite nicely.
> 
> Post#108 explains how and why the twin towers came down.  Those with very limited knowledge of construction methods will continue to wallow in immeasurably stupid conspiracy bullshit.
> 
> What conspiracy wackos SHOULD be excited about is the obama/clinton conspiracy to subvert the Constitution and the USA.  The first, REAL, provable, 'government against the people' conspiracy in our history.


i think he moved on to save the world, one post at a time...he's a real superhero...

heres his costume:

----------

Kodiak (02-12-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

The bumble bee bat is the smallest bat in the world, it lives along rivers in Thailand.

----------


## TPP

> do tell, do you think your Deity would consider it responsible of you to deal with an event such as this with such lack of concern?
> is it not a duty of human kind to use the intellect that our creator endowed us with, rather than forgo its use and not investigate 
> our world and all observed phenomenon?


Creator or not, come on now and use that intellect to tell us what happened to all those people.

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Dan40

> So, people really do not want to have a discussion about a matter that is not only national security, but human race security.
> and people just keep cracking lame jokes and treating the subject like its nothing.
> 
> The perpetrators lied to the entire planet about this. and the consequences are perpetual war.
> 
> what are YOU going to do?


We avoid idiotic nonsensical tripe.

And your "movement is missing the word, BOWEL.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

@n0spam4me : 55 posts, 0 thanked.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018),NuYawka (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> pinky?
> 
> LOL!
> 
> we're ALL pink inside...



I'm not sure, but I think that was a reference to "Pinky and the Brain", an 80's era cartoon I never bothered to watch.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> How do we know there is a "dark side"?  Maybe the moon only has one side.



You can see the side facing us get dark....

----------


## Sled Dog

> So in the court of public opinion, YOU that is YOU personally are willing to accept incomplete evidence and much hand waving from the prosecution, without question at all .... right?



Actually, it's in COURTS OF LAW where the juries are required to make judgements based on incomplete evidence.

Only God has all the evidence, and I'm really too busy to be testifying all the time.

So the humans are just going to have to do with "beyond a reasonable doubt".

----------


## Sled Dog

> I always question these conspiracies and WHY someone (government?) would go through such a dramatic fraud.  So GW could go to war with Iraq?  Makes no sense.


Gorelick ordered the FBI to stop communicating with the CIA, and vice versa, blinding the FBI's counter-terrorism units.

Clinton refused to take possession of Obama sin Laden when Sudan offered him up.

Shit hit the fan.

And the Rodents had to obscure the causes or the blame would, of course, fall on them, like it's always supposed to.

Hence to trolls and their "squib and ninja" arguments.

Fools.

----------

Big Dummy (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

allegedly "post 108" explains how the towers came down
However, Please note that the tower outer walls were 60% steel by area and only 40% window
also the towers had a central core that carried some of the weight.
additionally the towers were clocked as descending at 64% of the acceleration of gravity. 
(somebody explain the physics to the nay-sayers)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Mommy wrote that quite nicely.
> 
> Post#108 explains how and why the twin towers came down.  Those with very limited knowledge of construction methods will continue to wallow in immeasurably stupid conspiracy bullshit.
> 
> What conspiracy wackos SHOULD be excited about is the obama/clinton conspiracy to subvert the Constitution and the USA.  The first, REAL, provable, 'government against the people' conspiracy in our history.


OK, if "post 108" explains it all, WHY were the towers clocked at 64% of the acceleration of gravity as they "collapsed"
how is that accomplished in a gravity driven "collapse" .... really its impossible without help from an additional source of energy.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Stronger by weight but not by volume, that's why highly stressed parts like landing gear are made with steel. A steel beam is stronger than an aluminum beam of the same size, but much heavier.



Well, what kind of idiot would use identical sections in steel vs aluminum construction?

The Young's Modulus of aluminum is 1/3 that of steel (10 msi compared to 30 for steel), the grades of steel and aluminum have to be known before the proper sections can be selected, the considerations of buckling are going to be driven by the section's radius of gyration and by the Young's Modulus.   

And, you can't calculate an appropriate strength-to-weight ratio until you know the section properties of the two beams...because the section drives the volume which drives the weight.

Maybe you can inform us of your background in structural engineering?   

Some of us would like to see it.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> incredibility over motivation or logistics in no way negates observed phenomenon.



The observed phenomenon was aircraft crashing into the buildings.

Then the buildings fell down.

Cause observed, followed by effect observed.

Where's the problem?

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## JustPassinThru

Still thumpin' that tub.

What's in it for you?  The reason for the collapse as it happened, is both obvious and covered by non-political media such as Popular Mechanics.

WHY do you want to stir the shit?  WHY agitate the morons and Democrats (but I repeat myself)...?

----------


## Sled Dog

> The airliners full of people, could have been diverted by the perpetrators, or may not have ever existed, the bottom line here is that the events as observed clearly indicate that airliners were not used as weapons.  Note the characteristics of the "FLT11" "FLT175" & "FLT77" crashes.



Why is There Air?

----------


## Sled Dog

> Common characteristic of all three named alleged airliner crashes 
> being that the alleged airliner was said to have punched a hole in a wall, and then the entire aircraft ( or at least 99% of said aircraft ) 
> entered the building through said hole and the robust fireball waited until the plane was completely inside the building to erupt.
> to have one random event happen and people may say "it could happen like that" however to have 3 on the same day.
> NO! not at all, way beyond anything that is probable or plausible.  its all B movie special effects.



You're very intelligent and incredibly skilled.

Tell us how long it takes a 757 to travel it's own length at stall speed.

You can find the necessary data on the internet to perform the computations.

----------

JustPassinThru (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> ok...
> 
> now what?
> 
> 
> 
> btw, do you believe man landed on the moon and the earth is kinda round?


Shame on you, baiting him like that.

Man didn't land on the moon.

People did.

----------


## Sled Dog

> This has been brought up before, and I ask you to examine the feed rates for your "water cutting" bits and also note that these methods require special set-ups to accomplish, the airliner cutting into a skyscraper is a totally different sort of event.



This thread is amazing, who would ever have thought of comparing a big old jet airliner to a water *JET*?

Nobody sane, of course.

----------


## Sled Dog

> You have made an assumption that the show-stopper questions about 9/11 are who and why etc... 
> however given the absolute certain knowledge that the alleged airliners were most certainly not airliners
> this is proof sufficient to launch a real investigation.



So....when is this troll going to be banned?

----------


## Sled Dog

> Equal and opposite reaction ..... do you get what is required by the laws of physics?
> 
> given that there was sufficient force & time to punch a hole in a wall, that is displace mass ( etc ... ) 
> then there was sufficient force & time to break the airliner.
> 
> LOGIC



You forget to say "alleged airliner", and now you're implying the airplane survived the crash.

----------

JustPassinThru (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> You do of course realize that the questions that you raised 
> have nothing to do with explaining the fact that the media lied about what happened.
> can you get your head around LOGIC?



The only lies the medea did were to implicate Bush and exonerate islame....which tended to exonerate Clinton AND Bush.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> So....when is this troll going to be banned?


I could suggest banning people who post disinformation Note that there is a post on this thread where the author claims that the whole structural support for the towers was in the outer wall, when in fact the towers had core columns 
( quote from Wiki article "to share the gravity loads with the core columns" )  So now, anybody want to straight up challenge anything that I have posted?
who needs to be banned around here?

----------


## JustPassinThru

THAT, of course, is how scientists answer challenges.

BANNING.  Later, shout-downs; and then, arrest and execution.

You don't give a flying frig about the science.  You're a TOOL, for those who want to grow GOVERNMENT POWER.

Enjoy your very-short utility for people far-more powerful and devious than yourself.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Did Flight 93 land safely in Ohio?

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> The only lies the medea did were to implicate Bush and exonerate islame....which tended to exonerate Clinton AND Bush.


Clinton and Bush are members of the same party - the globalists.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> I could suggest banning people who post disinformation


Like yourself?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> OK, if "post 108" explains it all, WHY were the towers clocked at 64% of the acceleration of gravity as they "collapsed"
> how is that accomplished in a gravity driven "collapse" .... really its impossible without help from an additional source of energy.


They were clocked? By whom? Someone was set up with a radar gun waiting for the things to fall? Are you for real?

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Like yourself?


OK, straight up challenge anything that I have posted
go ahead, are we not seeking truth here?

----------


## n0spam4me

> They were clocked? By whom? Someone was set up with a radar gun waiting for the things to fall? Are you for real?


The towers collapsing was recorded on video, the frame rate is known to be 30 frames/sec
therefore the descent can be timed and known to be accelerating.  
BTW: in the NIST report on WTC7 "collapse" they admit that the building spent 2.25 sec descending at free fall acceleration.
and that data was derived from video.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> The observed phenomenon was aircraft crashing into the buildings.
> 
> Then the buildings fell down.
> 
> Cause observed, followed by effect observed.
> 
> Where's the problem?


That is what they want you to believe.

----------


## valley ranch

All the building material ~ between the structural steel ~ is light ~ strong enough ~ to stand up to high winds ~ but not a plane ~ weighing 175,000 lbs ~ coming in at ~ that kind of speed ```
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It has a maximum takeoff weight of about 80,000 kg (175,000 lbs). This includes the weight of the plane, which is about 41,000 kg (90,000 lbs), and the weight of the fuel which is about 18,000 kg (40,000 lbs). This leaves *about 20,000 kg* (*45,000 lbs*) for passengers, cargo, and crew.Jun 7, 2016
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------==

Think about that ~ for a while ~ and the compelling videos ~ might sound different to you ```

Think about the weight of a poured concrete floor ~ over steel heated by jet fuel  ~ fanned by high winds ~ just had to soften enough ~ to fall to the next floor ~ and the impact would do the rest ~ the next floors had the weight of ~ several poured concrete ~ many ton hammers ```

Nothing could stand that weight ~ it wasn't free fall ~ the crush of the building ~ was friction ~ that could slow but not stop ~ all that concrete ~ on it's way to earth ```



Did you study of physics at all ~  Motion , energy and force ``` It's not too late ```

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> *Nothing could stand that weight* ~ it wasn't free fall ~ the crush of the building ~ was friction ~ that could slow but not stop ~ all that concrete ~ on it's way to earth ```
> 
> 
> 
> Did you study of physics at all ~  Motion , energy and force ``` It's not too late ```


And Rosie O'Donnell wasn't even inside.

----------

valley ranch (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> You're very intelligent and incredibly skilled.
> 
> Tell us how long it takes a 757 to travel it's own length at stall speed.
> 
> You can find the necessary data on the internet to perform the computations.


WHY should anyone care about the stall speed? bottom line here is that I said challenge anything that I have posted,
what is the purpose of having anything to do with an airliners stall speed?
has anyone posting here actually read what I have written?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> has anyone posting here actually read what I have written?


That depends on whether you have written anything worth reading.

----------


## Sled Dog

> allegedly "post 108" explains how the towers came down
> However, Please note that the tower outer walls were 60% steel by area and only 40% window
> also the towers had a central core that carried some of the weight.
> additionally the towers were clocked as descending at 64% of the acceleration of gravity. 
> (somebody explain the physics to the nay-sayers)



There's a reason the towers came down.

Gravity.

You see, Earth SUCKS.

And they fell down.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> There's a reason the towers came down.
> 
> Gravity.
> 
> You see, Earth SUCKS.
> 
> And they fell down.


Everything "sucks". I am pulling my laptop towards me and my laptop is pulling me towards it, but I will win because I have more mass (and opposable thumbs).

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

My brain has more computing power than my laptop, but there are things that the laptop can do better than I.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

On the other hand, my laptop can't ponder why it can't marry a cat.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> WHY should anyone care about the stall speed? bottom line here is that I said challenge anything that I have posted,
> what is the purpose of having anything to do with an airliners stall speed?
> has anyone posting here actually read what I have written?



Bottom line is that you're blowing smoke, but my rectum is shut tight, so it's going somewhere else.

No, I'm not spending much time reading your bullshit, I'm merely skimming and posting occasionally.

You're clearly no engineer and you're incompetent as a debater, as well.

If you knew anything about anything, you'd be able to take the quote the post you quoted references and be able to figure out what the gaping hole was exposed in your nonsense.

I don't have to explain it.

About the only thing worse and more ignorant than your posts are the actions on this show "Jericho" I'm auditing (can't say I'm watching it when I'm wasting knowledge on trolls at the same time).   Amazing how the radioactive fallout cleared after only one day on that show.

Dude.

NOBODY is taking you seriously.   You exist to be made fun of.  

Get an argument that works if you're going to post this kind of crap.   And...


....you voted for Hillary.

----------


## Sled Dog

> On the other hand, my laptop can't ponder why it can't marry a cat.



I see you don't live in California....

----------


## JustPassinThru

Sorry.

The explanation is obvious, and has been dealt with _ad nauseum_ for seventeen years of Alex Jones hysteria.

You can learn.  Or you can parrot the conspiracy agitators' memes, like a tool.

The truth is as obvious as basic physics.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> my rectum is shut tight.


That sounds painful.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> That sounds painful.


What's painful is your agitation.

You're on IGNORE.

Everyone else who thinks, should do the same.

----------


## Sled Dog

> All the building material ~ between the structural steel ~ is light ~ strong enough ~ to stand up to high winds ~ but not a plane ~ weighing 175,000 lbs ~ coming in at ~ that kind of speed ```
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> It has a maximum takeoff weight of about 80,000 kg (175,000 lbs). This includes the weight of the plane, which is about 41,000 kg (90,000 lbs), and the weight of the fuel which is about 18,000 kg (40,000 lbs). This leaves *about 20,000 kg* (*45,000 lbs*) for passengers, cargo, and crew.Jun 7, 2016
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------==
> 
> Think about that ~ for a while ~ and the compelling videos ~ might sound different to you ```
> 
> Think about the weight of a poured concrete floor ~ over steel heated by jet fuel  ~ fanned by high winds ~ just had to soften enough ~ to fall to the next floor ~ and the impact would do the rest ~ the next floors had the weight of ~ several poured concrete ~ many ton hammers ```
> 
> ...


It was close to free fall.

The shock loads imposed on the rivet would happen at the speed of sound in the steel, which is tens of thousands of feet per second, practically instantaneous.

Ergo, no floor would give the oncoming collapse much pause in the descent.

Simple mechanics.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Sorry.
> 
> The explanation is obvious, and has been dealt with _ad nauseum_ for seventeen years of Alex Jones hysteria.
> 
> You can learn.  Or you can parrot the conspiracy agitators' memes, like a tool.
> 
> The truth is as obvious as basic physics.



No.  The only thing those trolls can learn is how to be more stupid than the day before.

They're at the point of claiming the airplanes didn't exist.

Presumably because they don't exist now, but nobody cares where their idiocy comes from.

----------

JustPassinThru (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> What's painful is your agitation.
> 
> You're on IGNORE.
> 
> Everyone else who thinks, should do the same.


In case you read this, what agitation? I am on YOUR side.  I saw airplanes hit the towers and I heard recordings of the human beings inside the aircraft and buildings. What is your problem?

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Bottom line is that you're blowing smoke, but my rectum is shut tight, so it's going somewhere else.
> 
> No, I'm not spending much time reading your bullshit, I'm merely skimming and posting occasionally.
> 
> You're clearly no engineer and you're incompetent as a debater, as well.
> 
> If you knew anything about anything, you'd be able to take the quote the post you quoted references and be able to figure out what the gaping hole was exposed in your nonsense.
> 
> I don't have to explain it.
> ...


 That last part, super ouch! thNP2S1BA5.jpgthKGHURD78.jpg

Still waiting to hear, if it was not airliners, just what was it?

I have heard all the theories, thermite etc... What say the OP?

----------


## n0spam4me

"Still waiting to hear, if it was not airliners, just what was it?" 

more proof that people are not reading what I wrote, if you are going to complain, please at least read the stuff you are complaining about.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> In case you read this, what agitation? I am on YOUR side.  I saw airplanes hit the towers and I heard recordings of the human beings inside the aircraft and buildings. What is your problem?


Sophistry.

Which is what you offer.  Or, more accurately, what your handlers/managers tell you to offer.

Look it up.  While you're cashing that Open Society/Soros Group paycheck, for, what, $30...

----------


## n0spam4me

"...you voted for Hillary."   No actually I voted for RattleSnake

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> "Still waiting to hear, if it was not airliners, just what was it?" 
> 
> more proof that people are not reading what I wrote, if you are going to complain, please at least read the stuff you are complaining about.


Hard to wade thru 24 pages of CT. While I read about 80% (time I can never recover, thanks a lot) care to be brief and just quote the post or #?

Thanks.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> "...you voted for Hillary."   No actually I voted for RattleSnake


No, you voted for treason.

For nihilism.

Soon, I believe, you will have what your paymasters told you to vote for.

You'll have the liberation of South Africa; of Zimbabwe; of Venezuela.

What are your preparations?

As an example...I have $90,000 in gold coins.

Do you have similar?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Sophistry.
> 
> Which is what you offer.  Or, more accurately, what your handlers/managers tell you to offer.
> 
> Look it up.  While you're cashing that Open Society/Soros Group paycheck, for, what, $30...


Soros? I am a conservative. You are accusing me of something that I tried to expose. Obama had an online cognitive dissonance operation run out of the White House by Cass Sunstein. No sir, I am not being paid. I pity you if you think otherwise. I am a man who observes our current United States and knows that men and women who gave their lives stir in their graves and ask "Is _this_ what I died to produce?"

----------


## JustPassinThru

No.

You are obviously not a conservative.

Your loudly asserting a label, doesn't count.

----------


## n0spam4me

> No.
> 
> You are obviously not a conservative.
> 
> Your loudly asserting a label, doesn't count.


Down with everything!
the establishment stinks! 
Big Brother is a pervert!

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> No.
> 
> You are obviously not a conservative.
> 
> Your loudly asserting a label, doesn't count.


If you really believe that, would you mind quoting some posts of mine that led you to reach that conclusion?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Hard to wade thru 24 pages of CT. While I read about 80% (time I can never recover, thanks a lot) care to be brief and just quote the post or #?
> 
> Thanks.





> Down with everything!
> the establishment stinks! 
> Big Brother is a pervert!


Did you forget to address my post? Should be quite simple, assuming you ever told us what actually did it. A simple question.

----------


## n0spam4me

Open letter to management, this bit has gone off the rails and appears to have no hope of actually discussing the OP
therefore may I suggest that this thread be locked, terminated or whatever it is that you do to put it out of its misery .....

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

"I met murder on the way. He had a mask like Castlereagh."

- _Mask of Anarchy_ - Percy Shelley

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Open letter to management, this bit has gone off the rails and appears to have no hope of actually discussing the OP
> therefore may I suggest that this thread be locked, terminated or whatever it is that you do to put it out of its misery .....


242 replies and you have yet to tell us what you think did the deed, I agree flush this thread. Your intent is obvious.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> 242 replies and you have yet to tell us what you think did the deed, I agree flush this thread. Your intent is obvious.


The way @JustPassinThru talks, I wonder if it was I.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> The way @JustPassinThru talks, I wonder if it was I.


I got nothing to do with that, yall work that out.

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> WEll...if you can prove GW Bush set up 911 and detonated those buildings, i'll be happy to go along with y'all charging him with it.


How about absolute proof that the media lied about the events and that is sufficient to launch prosecution against the owners of the mainstream media.

----------


## n0spam4me

> The way @JustPassinThru talks, I wonder if it was I.


wow man can we also pray to Cthulhu ?
what?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> How about absolute proof that the media lied about the events and that is sufficient to launch prosecution against the owners of the mainstream media.


How about you quit ducking my question? WHAT POST NUMBER did you tell us what REALLY happened ? @n0spam4me ?

----------


## n0spam4me

> 242 replies and you have yet to tell us what you think did the deed, I agree flush this thread. Your intent is obvious.


because you say "obvious" how about YOU tell me what is "obvious" ?

----------


## n0spam4me

> How about you quit ducking my question? WHAT POST NUMBER did you tell us what REALLY happened ? @nOspam4me ?


LOGIC, you see it is not necessary to say what actually did happen, when it is obvious that what actually did happen is NOT what the media reported.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> wow man can we also pray to Cthulhu ?
> what?


You could pay Herbert West to reanimate your grandmother.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

This thread is one weird tale.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

I don't love my HP, but I use it to practice my craft.

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> LOGIC, you see it is not necessary to say what actually did happen, when it is obvious that what actually did happen is NOT what the media reported.


So tell us...WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Unless you give a straight up answer that can be debated, I am done with this thread,

----------


## n0spam4me

> So tell us...WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Unless you give a straight up answer that can be debated, I am done with this thread,


Do you get the logic, that is it is possible to know what something isn't, without having to explain what it is.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> So tell us...WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. Unless you give a straight up answer that can be debated, I am done with this thread,


This thread is turning into a horror novel.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Do you get the logic, that is it is possible to know what something isn't, without having to explain what it is.


You and "logic" are at odds, Logic tells us what happened, logic also says if you wish to deny the obvious you will need something to back your claim on.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Do you get the logic, that is it is possible to know what something isn't, without having to explain what it is.


I can almost imagine Wilbur Whately saying that!

----------


## n0spam4me

> You and "logic" are at odds, Logic tells us what happened, logic also says if you wish to deny the obvious you will need something to back your claim on.


exactly what do you consider the "obvious" ?

and why should it be considered obvious?

----------


## n0spam4me

> This thread is turning into a horror novel.


or NIGHTFLYER anyone?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

If there were no airplanes, where are the bodies?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> exactly what do you consider the "obvious" ?
> 
> and why should it be considered obvious?


Oh, I don't know, an event witnessed by literally thousands of people?

Logic say's if you claim to know what something isn't, you should have some idea what it is, so....WHAT WAS IT???

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> or NIGHTFLYER anyone?


RR, George.

----------


## n0spam4me

> If there were no airplanes, where are the bodies?


again, this bit makes assumptions about HOW the illusion was pulled off, suffice to say that the fact of the video
that shows the south wall of the south tower allegedly being penetrated by an alleged airliner, when in fact there is 
NO crash shown in the video, the airliner as much as glides on into the wall like a B movie ghost.  What makes people
cling to the official story of hijacked airliners used as weapons, when the bits of alleged proof given by the media
are so completely bogus.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> again, this bit makes assumptions about HOW the illusion was pulled off, suffice to say that the fact of the video
> that shows the south wall of the south tower allegedly being penetrated by an alleged airliner, when in fact there is 
> NO crash shown in the video, the airliner as much as glides on into the wall like a B movie ghost.  What makes people
> cling to the official story of hijacked airliners used as weapons, when the bits of alleged proof given by the media
> are so completely bogus.


In short you can't account for the passengers. I can. They were found in the collapsed towers. I watched them die on television.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Oh, I don't know, an event witnessed by literally thousands of people?
> 
> Logic say's if you claim to know what something isn't, you should have some idea what it is, so....WHAT WAS IT???


the logic here is that when there are eyewitness statements but the video and photographic evidence contradicts said testimony
the video & photographic evidence wins, and in the case of 9/11/2001 the pictures tell the story that there was no airliner crashed into either tower or the PENTAGON. 

"an event witnessed by literally thousands of people?"  OK, where are the witness statements from these thousands of people?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzzHjLYjuA

----------


## n0spam4me

> In short you can't account for the passengers. I can. They were found in the collapsed towers. I watched them die on television.


"They were found in the collapsed towers."  Documentation please .....

----------


## NuYawka

> again, this bit makes assumptions about HOW the illusion was pulled off, suffice to say that the fact of the video
> that shows the south wall of the south tower allegedly being penetrated by an alleged airliner, when in fact there is 
> NO crash shown in the video, the airliner as much as glides on into the wall like a B movie ghost.  What makes people
> cling to the official story of hijacked airliners used as weapons, when the bits of alleged proof given by the media
> are so completely bogus.


Where were you when it happened?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> the logic here is that when there are eyewitness statements but the video and photographic evidence contradicts said testimony
> the video & photographic evidence wins, and in the case of 9/11/2001 the pictures tell the story that there was no airliner crashed into either tower or the PENTAGON. 
> 
> "an event witnessed by literally thousands of people?"  OK, where are the witness statements from these thousands of people?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAzzHjLYjuA


You have one right on this forum. Are the thousands of family members with dead loved ones, liars too?

----------


## Rutabaga

> or NIGHTFLYER anyone?


pretty good book/movie..not one of steves best, but entertaining...

----------


## Rutabaga

> allegedly "post 108" explains how the towers came down
> However, Please note that the tower outer walls were 60% steel by area and only 40% window
> also the towers had a central core that carried some of the weight.
> additionally the towers *were clocked as descending at 64% of the acceleration of gravity. 
> *(somebody explain the physics to the nay-sayers)


who "clocked" them?

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## TPP

> You have one right on this forum. Are the thousands of family members with dead loved ones, liars too?


He won't address that, I've asked many times and he just ignores it. Real people can't be allowed to interfere with his fantasy.

----------


## sooda

> allegedly "post 108" explains how the towers came down
> However, Please note that the tower outer walls were 60% steel by area and only 40% window
> also the towers had a central core that carried some of the weight.
> additionally the towers were clocked as descending at 64% of the acceleration of gravity. 
> (somebody explain the physics to the nay-sayers)


The exterior walls were aluminum.

----------


## TPP

> Well, what kind of idiot would use identical sections in steel vs aluminum construction?
> 
> The Young's Modulus of aluminum is 1/3 that of steel (10 msi compared to 30 for steel), the grades of steel and aluminum have to be known before the proper sections can be selected, the considerations of buckling are going to be driven by the section's radius of gyration and by the Young's Modulus.   
> 
> And, you can't calculate an appropriate strength-to-weight ratio until you know the section properties of the two beams...because the section drives the volume which drives the weight.
> 
> Maybe you can inform us of your background in structural engineering?   
> 
> Some of us would like to see it.



That's all true. The point i was trying to make is that because something is made of aluminum doesn't mean it will be stronger. Aluminum would have been used as a construction material because it provided adequate strength at a reduced weight. On a 100+ story building, a small reduction in the weight of each floor will add up to a very large reduction in the loads carried by the lower floors and foundation.

Throw in the temperatures generated by burning jet fuel and steel could lose 50% or more of its strength while aluminum would be nearly if not actually, a puddle.
It doesn't take a structural engineer to figure out any of that.

----------


## sooda

The *World Trade Center's aluminum skin* was actually structural.

*Minoru Yamasaki: Humanist Architecture for a Modernist World*https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0300229860

----------


## n0spam4me

> The exterior walls were aluminum.


Documentation please .....

----------


## sooda

> Documentation please .....


I linked you to the architect.. Everybody know the building had an aluminum skin.

----------


## n0spam4me

> I linked you to the architect.. Everybody know the building had an aluminum skin.


However, how much of the structural load was carried by the Aluminum? The perimeter wall was steel all the way to the top and the outside Aluminum is a tangent, what is to be noted here is the fact that the alleged airliner penetration was totally un-natural, and the collapse event was also totally un-natural. the fact is that the events as alleged to have happened by the media, could not have been.  The airliner crash would have had to produce tons of airliner wreckage on the entry side of the hole, and the "collapse" event could not be a gravity driven event to descend at the acceleration observed.

----------


## sooda

> However, how much of the structural load was carried by the Aluminum? The perimeter wall was steel all the way to the top and the outside Aluminum is a tangent, what is to be noted here is the fact that the alleged airliner penetration was totally un-natural, and the collapse event was also totally un-natural. the fact is that the events as alleged to have happened by the media, could not have been.  The airliner crash would have had to produce tons of airliner wreckage on the entry side of the hole, and the "collapse" event could not be a gravity driven event to descend at the acceleration observed.


The floors were cantilevered  off the core.  You need to learn alot more before you go this dumb truther route.

----------


## n0spam4me

> The floors were cantilevered  off the core.  You need to learn alot more before you go this dumb truther route.


"dumb truther route" ... your attitude is showing.  and if the floors were cantilevered off the core, then why was there not some of the core structure still standing when the collapse event was finished? and even if the floors were actually cantilevered off the core, how is 64% of the acceleration of gravity explained as the downward acceleration of the "collapsing" tower(s)?

----------


## sooda

> "dumb truther route" ... your attitude is showing.  and if the floors were cantilevered off the core, then why was there not some of the core structure still standing when the collapse event was finished? and even if the floors were actually cantilevered off the core, how is 64% of the acceleration of gravity explained as the downward acceleration of the "collapsing" tower(s)?


You aren't making sense.

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> You aren't making sense.


what part of descended at 64% of the acceleration of gravity is unclear to you?

----------


## sooda

> what part of descended at 64% of the acceleration of gravity is unclear to you?


*Acceleration Due to Gravity - Physics - TutorCircle*physics.tutorcircle.com/motion/acceleration-due-to-gravity.html




To know about the concept behind the "Acceleration due to gravity", just drop two objects with same velocity. Normally ... The acceleration due to gravity may refer to gravitational *acceleration*, *gravity* of earth, and standard gravity. In general ..... If the acceleration due to gravity reduces by 36%, then the value becomes *64*%.

----------


## n0spam4me

> *Acceleration Due to Gravity - Physics - TutorCircle*
> 
> physics.tutorcircle.com/motion/acceleration-due-to-gravity.html
> 
> 
> To know about the concept behind the "Acceleration due to gravity", just drop two objects with same velocity. Normally ... The acceleration due to gravity may refer to gravitational *acceleration*, *gravity* of earth, and standard gravity. In general ..... If the acceleration due to gravity reduces by 36%, then the value becomes *64*%.


So then, the mass of as yet undamaged skyscraper under the "pile driver" is only resisting by 36% of the mass of the "pile driver" 
is that what you believe?

" just drop two objects with same velocity. Normally"  isn't this supposed to be " just drop two objects with same mass Normally" ?

----------


## TPP

> what part of descended at 64% of the acceleration of gravity is unclear to you?



What is your problem with that?

----------


## n0spam4me

> What is your problem with that?


in order to have descent at 64% of the acceleration of gravity, the bit below the falling mass must only resist by 36% of the mass of what is falling.
Since the lower part of the skyscraper had always supported the upper part, this 64% of the acceleration of gravity is clearly an indication that this "collapse" event had help, be that help in the form of black powder or black magic, whatever .... it had help.

----------


## TPP

> in order to have descent at 64% of the acceleration of gravity, the bit below the falling mass must only resist by 36% of the mass of what is falling.
> Since the lower part of the skyscraper had always supported the upper part, this 64% of the acceleration of gravity is clearly an indication that this "collapse" event had help, be that help in the form of black powder or black magic, whatever .... it had help.


So what rate would be acceptable to you? Do you seriously maintain that there were charges set on every floor below where the aircraft hit in order to speed up the collapse? What would be the reason for starting at the floor where the aircraft hit? 

I know you won't touch this but I'll ask it again anyway. What happened to all those people on those flights that day?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Throw in the temperatures generated by burning jet fuel and steel could lose 50% or more of its strength while aluminum would be nearly if not actually, a puddle.
> It doesn't take a structural engineer to figure out any of that.


Melissa Doi was in the impact zone and she said it was "very, very hot."

----------


## NuYawka

Where were you when it happened?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> in order to have descent at 64% of the acceleration of gravity, the bit below the falling mass must only resist by 36% of the mass of what is falling.
> Since the lower part of the skyscraper had always supported the upper part, this 64% of the acceleration of gravity is clearly an indication that this "collapse" event had help, be that help in the form of black powder or black magic, whatever .... it had help.


Let's assume for the moment that you are right and that the collapse had help. That does not disprove that the buildings were hit by large airplanes with people inside.

----------


## MrMike



----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018)

----------


## sooda

> So what rate would be acceptable to you? Do you seriously maintain that there were charges set on every floor below where the aircraft hit in order to speed up the collapse? What would be the reason for starting at the floor where the aircraft hit? 
> 
> I know you won't touch this but I'll ask it again anyway. What happened to all those people on those flights that day?


This conspiracy has a cast of thousands, you know.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Let's assume for the moment that you are right and that the collapse had help. That does not disprove that the buildings were hit by large airplanes with people inside.


the separate case of the airliners allegedly penetrating the wall(s) of the towers
is completely explainable using logic.  Note that in the case of an airliner allegedly traveling >500 mph
strikes a wall ( such as the WTC tower wall ) there would have to be a huge jolt, ( >100 g ) 
and as such, this jolt would stress the aircraft as if it had been hit with a big hammer.
now in addition to the initial jolt, there would have to be on-going deceleration.
Note that at a deceleration rate of just 1mph/millisecond, this results in >45 g 
at that amount of deceleration, a ton of luggage in the aircraft would exert >45 tons against
the bulkhead in front of it.  This deceleration force would apply to the entire aircraft and 
would stress the aircraft beyond its breaking point.

----------


## TPP

> This conspiracy has a cast of thousands, you know.


More likely tens of thousands.

----------


## n0spam4me

> This conspiracy has a cast of thousands, you know.


Your incredulity over how the stunt may have been pulled off, in no way negates observation.
the observed results as documented in the mainstream media's own narrative is damning evidence.

----------


## n0spam4me

> 


Dude, U no gotta read this stuff
however, I urge you to stick around, you may learn something.

----------


## sooda

> Your incredulity over how the stunt may have been pulled off, in no way negates observation.
> the observed results as documented in the mainstream media's own narrative is damning evidence.


We you born before 2001?

----------


## TPP

> Dude, U no gotta read this stuff
> however, I urge you to stick around, you may learn something.



Like what happened to all the people on those flights?

----------


## Rutabaga

> Dude, U no gotta read this stuff
> however, I urge you to stick around, you may learn something.



i suspect we have all learned something... :Cool20:

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> We you born before 2001?


I can only guess, was that supposed to be WERE ?  ( wow, & people complain about my writing .... ) 
and really, it doesn't matter if I'm a teenager, or an old fart.
what is in the content of what I post?
..................................................  ..... Think logic ... like a graduate of the Vulcan academy ..... 
.
fascinating Captain ..... FASCINATING ....

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

This guy has posted almost exclusively in this thread (and maybe entirely exclusively). Why don't we say "no spam for me" and ignore it.

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018),sooda (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

It's time for a virtuous breakfast. Eggs, bacon, toast, coffee.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> and really, it doesn't matter if I'm a teenager, or an old fart.


I just produced a new fart. That information is more useful to the masses then you trying to sell the falsehood that "no airplanes hit the building".

----------


## n0spam4me

> It's time for a virtuous breakfast. Eggs, bacon, toast, coffee.


so you consider my posts "spam" .... what?
spam is that witch is for unwanted selling of a commercial nature.
I'm not selling anything, I'm attempting to get people to see the facts about 9/11/2001
AMERICA has been lied to!  your mainstream media does NOT exist  to inform you, it 
exists to make money for the owners of said media.

----------


## n0spam4me

> I just produced a new fart. That information is more useful to the masses then you trying to sell the falsehood that "no airplanes hit the building".


it is so sad to see such a low standard for evidence such that the lame excuses offered up by various people
should be accepted as proof that the alleged airliners struct the towers & Pentagon.

----------


## TPP

> it is so sad to see such a low standard for evidence such that the lame excuses offered up by various people
> should be accepted as proof that the alleged airliners struct the towers & Pentagon.


Then you should be able to tell us what happened to the people on those flights that day.

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## MrMike

I got a giggle when I heard that fag Ian from PH let Davo pound his Jeffries tube!

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------



----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> it is so sad to see such a low standard for evidence such that the lame excuses offered up by various people
> should be accepted as proof that the alleged airliners struct the towers & Pentagon.


We SAW the airliners hit the buildings. The people on board _died_. I think @sooda is on to something, you can't be older than 17.

----------


## Traddles

> This guy has posted almost exclusively in this thread (and maybe entirely exclusively). Why don't we say "no spam for me" and ignore it.



Has (s)he also been spamming other members' PM Inboxes? Or am I "special"?

ee21aa8d3f671922555e5a28067d0b26.jpg

AA%u00252Bflight-175-just-before-impacting-the-south-tower.jpg

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> so you consider my posts "spam" .... what?


Yes.




> I'm not selling anything.


Sure you are.

----------


## sooda

> We SAW the airliners hit the buildings. The people on board _died_. I think @sooda is on to something, you can't be older than 17.


Pretty childish..... He thinks the building was like a conventional brick and mortar.. didn't know it had aluminum skin or that it swayed off center 5 feet in any direction. Nuisance.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Then you should be able to tell us what happened to the people on those flights that day.


People died that day, and that is truly a sad thing, however, the total explanation of how they died, will have to wait until after there is a more complete investigation.  The facts that nail down the unmistakable conclusion that 9/11/2001 was a false flag are totally available without having to launch into speculation.  The fact that it can be known that airliners were not used as weapons is logical bed-rock here.  Did you read any of what I have posted about what the result would have to be, that is if a real airliner actually did strike a skyscraper such as the WTC tower?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> People died that day, and that is truly a sad thing, however, the total explanation of how they died, will have to wait until after there is a more complete investigation.  The facts that nail down the unmistakable conclusion that 9/11/2001 was a false flag are totally available without having to launch into speculation.  The fact that it can be known that airliners were not used as weapons is logical bed-rock here.  Did you read any of what I have posted about what the result would have to be, that is if a real airliner actually did strike a skyscraper such as the WTC tower?


If airliners were not used then what happened to the people who boarded those flights and what happened to the aircraft themselves? How come every live picture of Flight 175 hitting the South Tower shows a United Airlines Boeing 767?

----------

Louise (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Has @n0spam4me gone to adjust his tinfoil hat?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Yes.
> 
> Sure you are.


He is selling but no one is buying.thA6C09P2X.jpg

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

I guess that Betty Ong was in a sound studio when she made this phone call and was "disappeared" to Siberia or Guantanamo Bay.

----------


## Louise

> People died that day, and that is truly a sad thing, however, the total explanation of how they died, will have to wait until after there is a more complete investigation.  The facts that nail down the unmistakable conclusion that 9/11/2001 was a false flag are totally available without having to launch into speculation.  The fact that it can be known that airliners were not used as weapons is logical bed-rock here.  Did you read any of what I have posted about what the result would have to be, that is if a real airliner actually did strike a skyscraper such as the WTC tower?


Hey Genius, 

My friend's husband called her just before he boarded a plane in Boston, headed home to LA. She never spoke to him again.  Where did he go, Einstein? 

If those planes were not involved, where are all of the passengers? Where are the planes themselves?  

I am sure you are too far into denial to even recognize the obvious. Why waste my breath...

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

> I got a giggle when I heard that fag Ian from PH let Davo pound his Jeffries tube!


Vulcan school seems so illogical in todays universe.


PH_the_early_years.png

----------


## MrMike

> People died that day, and that is truly a sad thing, however, the total explanation of how they died, will have to wait until after there is a more complete investigation.  The facts that nail down the unmistakable conclusion that 9/11/2001 was a false flag are totally available without having to launch into speculation.  The fact that it can be known that airliners were not used as weapons is logical bed-rock here.  Did you read any of what I have posted about what the result would have to be, that is if a real airliner actually did strike a skyscraper such as the WTC tower?


*
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## MrMike

> Vulcan school seems so illogical in todays universe.
> 
> 
> Attachment 28305


Hey look... it's the PH hag brigade (and looky at Ian)  lol

----------


## Rutabaga

> Hey Genius, 
> 
> My friend's husband called her just before he boarded a plane in Boston, headed home to LA. She never spoke to him again.  Where did he go, Einstein? 
> 
> If those planes were not involved, where are all of the passengers? Where are the planes themselves?  
> 
> I am sure you are too far into denial to even recognize the obvious. Why waste my breath...


hes been spouting this same nonsense for close to 10 years...in forum after forum, all with the same results...

he counts the replies as though they are proof of his genius..never mind they consist of mocking incredulity...

its his hobby...and like i said, everybody needs one...

----------

Louise (02-13-2018),MrMike (02-13-2018),NuYawka (02-13-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

> again, this bit makes assumptions about HOW the illusion was pulled off, suffice to say that the fact of the video
> that shows the south wall of the south tower allegedly being penetrated by an alleged airliner, when in fact there is 
> NO crash shown in the video, the airliner as much as glides on into the wall like a B movie ghost.  What makes people
> cling to the official story of hijacked airliners used as weapons, when the bits of alleged proof given by the media
> are so completely bogus.





> Where were you when it happened?





> Where were you when it happened?


Where were you when it happened?

----------

Kodiak (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Where were you when it happened?


6th grade...

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## MrMike

> Has @n0spam4me gone to adjust his tinfoil hat?


He's busy taking burger orders.  He will be back soon...   :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

Crunch (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

Even Sooda's making more sense than the OP.

----------

Crunch (02-13-2018),MrMike (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Crunch

> He's busy taking burger orders.  He will be back soon...







Why does anyone waste their time trying to have a discussion with people like the OP? They have already made up their minds and nothing you can say and no evidence you present will change it.

----------

MrMike (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

Note the still from one of the videos alleging to show "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the south tower.
can anybody account for this?
4n2..jpg

----------


## Dan40

> People died that day, and that is truly a sad thing, however, the total explanation of how they died, will have to wait until after there is a more complete investigation.  The facts that nail down the unmistakable conclusion that 9/11/2001 was a false flag are totally available without having to launch into speculation.  The fact that it can be known that airliners were not used as weapons is logical bed-rock here.  Did you read any of what I have posted about what the result would have to be, that is if a real airliner actually did strike a skyscraper such as the WTC tower?


Dumb post gold medal.

Way back when, a bomber did crash into the Empire state building.  Below are the relative sizes of aircraft and airliners now.  And the hole it made in the CONCRETE AND STEEL inner core type construction.  The twin towers were built using completely different methods.

1945 Empire State Building B-25 crash - Wikipedia

----------


## n0spam4me

> Where were you when it happened?


absolutely doesn't matter, the fact is that the media's lame excuses  coupled with the bogus video they presented makes the case
for total media fraud.  can you get your head around that?

----------


## n0spam4me

So it is YOUR opinion that an entire 159 foot long aircraft could as much as disappear inside the tower in 1/5 of a sec. and there is nothing at all the slightest bit suspicious about that at all .... right?

----------


## MrMike

> absolutely doesn't matter, the fact is that the media's lame excuses  coupled with the bogus video they presented makes the case
> for total media fraud.  can you get your head around that?


Quick... look out your window at the Library (free internet) Is that a black helicopter?  They may be zeroing in on the tracking implant.

Run... run!  Don't forget to duck-n-cover a few times too!  (and watch out for contrails!)

----------

Kodiak (02-13-2018),Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Dan40

> absolutely doesn't matter, the fact is that the media's lame excuses  coupled with the bogus video they presented makes the case
> for total media fraud.  can you get your head around that?

----------

frankmusic (02-13-2018),MrMike (02-13-2018)

----------


## Kodiak

> *Why does anyone waste their time trying to have a discussion with people like the OP?* They have already made up their minds and nothing you can say and no evidence you present will change it.


Boredom?

----------

Crunch (02-13-2018),MrMike (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> hes been spouting this same nonsense for close to 10 years...in forum after forum, all with the same results...
> 
> he counts the replies as though they are proof of his genius..never mind they consist of mocking incredulity...
> 
> its his hobby...and like i said, everybody needs one...


"all with the same results"  Are you totally certain of that?  in that NOBODY actually believes any of the "truther crap" at all ever?
do you allege to speak for EVERYBODY who has ever read any sort of "truther" post?

----------


## Crunch

This is pretty much the only thing that the OP has posted on.

Obviously an obsessed nut job who needs to wave it around for everyone to see.

Time for this clown to pack it up and go home.

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Dan40

> So it is YOUR opinion that an entire 159 foot long aircraft could as much as disappear inside the tower in 1/5 of a sec. and there is nothing at all the slightest bit suspicious about that at all .... right?


The twin towers were FAR from solid objects.

Below is what happens in a small part of a second when an airliner hit a solid object.



*This message is hidden because n0spam4me is on your ignore list.*Now must leave crazy.  It might be contagious.

----------


## n0spam4me

> This is pretty much the only thing that the OP has posted on.
> 
> Obviously an obsessed nut job who needs to wave it around for everyone to see.
> 
> Time for this clown to pack it up and go home.


in YOUR opinion, why should YOUR opinion be any more significant than MY opinion?
BTW: as of this point in the discussion, I see that NOBODY who has posted here, has actually
read what I have written on the subject, they may have skimmed it and formed some sort of 
conclusions based upon incomplete data, + the programming that they have received from
the psychological warfare going on.  However, how many people are actually willing to dig a bit deeper?
and examine not only the probability of the events, but the basic mechanics of the events so as to see,
the big fat stinking elephant in the room.... (?)

----------


## Crunch

> Boredom?


That could be it, but you would be better off trying to teach a pig to dance

----------


## sooda

> in YOUR opinion, why should YOUR opinion be any more significant than MY opinion?
> BTW: as of this point in the discussion, I see that NOBODY who has posted here, has actually
> read what I have written on the subject, they may have skimmed it and formed some sort of 
> conclusions based upon incomplete data, + the programming that they have received from
> the psychological warfare going on.  However, how many people are actually willing to dig a bit deeper?
> and examine not only the probability of the events, but the basic mechanics of the events so as to see,
> the big fat stinking elephant in the room.... (?)


Opinions should be based on facts......

----------


## n0spam4me

> The twin towers were FAR from solid objects.
> 
> Below is what happens in a small part of a second when an airliner hit a solid object.
> 
> 
> 
> *This message is hidden because n0spam4me is on your ignore list.*
> 
> 
> Now must leave crazy.  It might be contagious.


so, in order for what was observed to be true, the wall of the WTC tower would have had to present so little resistance
as to be like a wall made of paper.  The problem that everybody should see here is that at >500 mph, displacing tons
of mass in order to make the hole, would require a lot of energy and would by necessity slow down the airliner significantly.
this in turn would stress the airliner beyond it breaking point and there would have to be tons of airliner wreckage in the street 
on the south side of the south tower.  This did not happen, therefore the story about "FLT175" is a lie.

----------


## MrMike

> That could be it, but you would be better off trying to teach a pig to dance


I love bacon!

 :Thumbsup20:

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Note the still from one of the videos alleging to show "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the south tower.
> can anybody account for this?
> Attachment 28306


All you look at is stills? I watched the airplane on live television. Were you still a sperm waiting for a chance to gang rape an egg?

----------


## n0spam4me

interesting that after my initial post asking people to not expend time & space on this forum if they do not have anything focused upon the discussion, so many people have chimed in with their jokes, insults, (etc... ) why bother, if this subject matter is so out-of-line to you, what motivates you to expend time to ridicule the "truther" ?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> This did not happen, therefore the story about "FLT175" is a lie.


It is not a "story". It happened and millions of people saw it happen.

----------

Louise (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Note the still from one of the videos alleging to show "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the south tower.
> can anybody account for this?
> Attachment 28306


account for what?

a photoshopped picture of a plane?

note the plane has NOT struct the tower yet...

----------


## n0spam4me

> All you look at is stills? I watched the airplane on live television. Were you still a sperm waiting for a chance to gang rape an egg?


assumption being the mutha 0' disasta
you have made an assumption that all I look at are stills.  The still frames from the videos are just one bit of the evidence ( among many ... )
what limitations have you placed upon the evidence that you will consider?

----------


## Rutabaga

> interesting that after my initial post asking people to not expend time & space on this forum if they do not have anything focused upon the discussion, so many people have chimed in with their jokes, insults, (etc... ) why bother, if this subject matter is so out-of-line to you, what motivates you to expend time to ridicule the "truther" ?


you don't command anyone,,least of all us...

i like fucking with crazies, its MY hobby...you like being crazy,,is that YOUR hobby?

----------

Louise (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> absolutely doesn't matter, the fact is that the media's lame excuses  coupled with the bogus video they presented makes the case
> for total media fraud.  can you get your head around that?


What video? The people on the ground in NYC did not see a video and neither did I when I watched it on live TV. We saw an airplane go into the tower and cause an explosion.

----------

Louise (02-13-2018),sooda (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> account for what?
> 
> a photoshopped picture of a plane?
> 
> note the plane has NOT struct the tower yet...


"note the plane has NOT struct the tower yet..."  exactly how do you get that from this picture?
and may I point out that when one looks at any of the videos presented by the media as allegedly showing "FLT175" crashing into the south tower,
the video clearly shows an image that glides into the wall, like a B movie ghost walking through a wall, where is the initial contact jolt? where is the reduction in speed caused by the resistance offered up by the structure of the tower?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> what limitations have you placed upon the evidence that you will consider?


None, I saw the event happen LIVE. When did you first learn about 9/11?

----------


## sooda

> What video? The people on the ground in NYC did not see a video and neither did I when I watched it on live TV. We saw an airplane go into the tower and cause an explosion.


Me too..   I knew the towers would collapse..  In fact, I was surprised they stood as long as they did. 

You familiar with the work of the architect? He built the Dhahran airport about 1961..

----------


## n0spam4me

> you don't command anyone,,least of all us...
> 
> i like fucking with crazies, its MY hobby...you like being crazy,,is that YOUR hobby?


Often in forums there is supposed to be some measure of good diplomacy & polite interaction between forum participants.
so how is it justified that people return insults, for attempts at logical debate.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> I love bacon!


All airplane seats should be made of pig skin. That might have prevented 9/11.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Often in forums there is supposed to be some measure of good diplomacy & polite interaction between forum participants.
> so how is it justified that people return insults, for attempts at logical debate.


Let us know when you are ready to engage in logical debate. Doing so means agreeing on a set of established facts, not presenting fantasy as reality.

----------

sooda (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Me too..   I knew the towers would collapse..  In fact, I was surprised they stood as long as they did. 
> 
> You familiar with the work of the architect? He built the Dhahran airport about 1961..


Eye witness have been known to be wrong, and in the face of information from the video that is alleged to be of "FLT175" penetrating the south wall of the south tower, the conclusion is clear, the media lied!   BTW: was there something significant about "Dhahran airport" ?

----------


## sooda

> Often in forums there is supposed to be some measure of good diplomacy & polite interaction between forum participants.
> so how is it justified that people return insults, for attempts at logical debate.


Its been more than 15 years and you still don't know the facts.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> I love bacon!


#MeToo!  :Thumbsup20:

----------


## n0spam4me

> Let us know when you are ready to engage in logical debate. Doing so means agreeing on a set of established facts, not presenting fantasy as reality.


is it not established fact that the video presented to the world by the media, shows an alleged airliner penetrating a wall "like a hot knife through butter"
is that not the case? and as a starting point, then it can be shown that having an airliner perform such a stunt is impossible.
do you want to engage on this subject or not?

----------


## Traddles

> Often in forums there is supposed to be some measure of good diplomacy & polite interaction between forum participants.
> so how is it justified that people return insults, for attempts at logical debate.


Like I posted many pages ago,




> What a canned response. You should practice it more, maybe add a little originality. But other than that, nope, just .


Try the _pitiful injured poster shtick_ on people who haven't seen it scores of times before.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Its been more than 15 years and you still don't know the facts.


so please enlighten me, what facts do you have?

----------


## sooda

> so please enlighten me, what facts do you have?


Your blather about "load bearing"........ for starters.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> so please enlighten me, what facts do you have?


105 posts and you haven't posted one fact that I have seen.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

OP should take his fake news and go work for CNN.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Your blather about "load bearing"........ for starters.


Please provide quote and explain what your point is.
simply saying {blather about "load bearing"} is not useful.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> is it not established fact that the video presented to the world by the media, shows an alleged airliner penetrating a wall "like a hot knife through butter"
> is that not the case? and as a starting point, then it can be shown that having an airliner perform such a stunt is impossible.
> do you want to engage on this subject or not?


A good starting point would be agreeing that airliners hit those buildings. If you disagree then you need to account for the passengers and explain what did hit the buildings. Do you want to engage in the subject or not?

----------

Louise (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> 105 posts and you haven't posted one fact that I have seen.


what I asked for ... is what facts do YOU bring to the party? can you read what I wrote?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> what I asked for ... is what facts do YOU bring to the party? can you read what I wrote?


I bring the fact that on September 11, 2001 American Airlines Flight 11 (a Boeing 767-200 aircraft) with 92 people aboard crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center at 8:46 a.m., and United Airlines Flight 175 (a Boeing 767-200 aircraft) with 65 people aboard crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center at 9:01 a.m.

These are established facts. Without them no productive debate is possible.

----------

sooda (02-13-2018)

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## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> your mainstream media does NOT exist  to inform you, it 
> exists to make money for *the owners of said media*.


Of course it does. Did you think they did it for free?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Well, this thread has had one accomplishment I never thought I would see happen.  It got at least a half dozen members agreeing with Sooda on something she posted.

----------

Louise (02-13-2018),NuYawka (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> I bring the fact that on September 11, 2001 American Airlines Flight 11 (a Boeing 767-200 aircraft) with 92 people aboard crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center at 8:46 a.m., and United Airlines Flight 175 (a Boeing 767-200 aircraft) with 65 people aboard crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center at 9:01 a.m.
> 
> These are established facts. Without them no productive debate is possible.


I question what is the foundation for said "facts" what evidence convinces you that the above statement is indeed unquestionable fact?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> Of course it does. Did you think they did it for free?


wrong post

----------


## n0spam4me

> Of course it does. Did you think they did it for free?


These corporate giants decide what constitutes "news" and what does not.
GE, News-Corp, Disney, Viacom, Time Warner, CBS 

are you satisfied with with the state of affairs where large corporations get to have such power?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

I can't believe this nonsense has gone on for 372 post now.

There is no way anyone is going to get this clown to go away unless everyone simply puts him on ignore and never answers another of his post ever.

Hell, I'd rather discuss things with Sooda.  At least she does have some "facts" to back up her outrageous claims.  This bozo only has "you don't know what you think you know" and "what you saw wasn't what you saw"

----------

Kodiak (02-13-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> These corporate giants decide what constitutes "news" and what does not.
> GE, News-Corp, Disney, Viacom, Time Warner, CBS 
> 
> are you satisfied with with the state of affairs where large corporations get to have such power?


No, I am not. However that is an entirely different issue. Let's return to the topic of your thread. If airliners did not hit those buildings, what did and where are the passengers?

----------


## n0spam4me

> I guess that Betty Ong was in a sound studio when she made this phone call and was "disappeared" to Siberia or Guantanamo Bay.


speculation about HOW it was done is a waste, what is clear by the official story of how an airliner penetrated completely
and in the manner that the alleged "FLT175" was shown penetrating the wall, this whole bit requires cartoon physics to work
like a wall with a cut-out of a road-runner ....  its all fake, its a bit of theater.

----------


## n0spam4me

> No, I am not. However that is an entirely different issue. Let's return to the topic of your thread. If airliners did not hit those buildings, what did and where are the passengers?


it is absolutely not necessary to account for passengers who may or may not have been on any specific flight, or for that matter may or may not be real, the fact of the alleged airliner crash into the tower, being totally bogus, is the show-stopper here.

----------


## n0spam4me

> I can't believe this nonsense has gone on for 372 post now.
> 
> There is no way anyone is going to get this clown to go away unless everyone simply puts him on ignore and never answers another of his post ever.
> 
> Hell, I'd rather discuss things with Sooda.  At least she does have some "facts" to back up her outrageous claims.  This bozo only has "you don't know what you think you know" and "what you saw wasn't what you saw"


Just about the time things start getting good, in that we may have an actual dialog happening here,
somebody must chime in advocating a total shut-down of this thread because of what, we may get too close to actual truth about what happened?

----------


## Rutabaga

its time for some crazy hitler parodies again!!!

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> I question what is the foundation for said "facts" what evidence convinces you that the above statement is indeed unquestionable fact?


Well sonny, it is like this. People who were aware (not having their mommy wipe their face while playing with rattles) saw the airplanes crash into the buildings. Furthermore, real people bought fares and boarded those flights. They made phone calls from inside the airplanes saying that the planes had been hijacked. When the airplanes hit the buildings those calls stopped (it is hard for a dead person to carry on a telephone conversation). Those airplanes and people are no more. If you think that no airplanes crashed into the towers it is incumbent on you to account for the people and the aircraft if you do not believe they were in the wreckage of the collapsed towers. You have your assignment, so get to it bud.

----------

NuYawka (02-13-2018)

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## Rutabaga



----------


## Rutabaga



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## Rutabaga



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## Rutabaga



----------


## Rutabaga



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## Rutabaga



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## tiny1

n0spam4me




> so you consider my posts "spam" .... what?


No.  I consider your post, CRUD.



> spam is that witch is for unwanted selling of a commercial nature.


Huh??



> I'm not selling anything, I'm attempting to get people to see the facts about 9/11/2001


Well, then, supply some facts.



> AMERICA has been lied to!  your mainstream media does NOT exist  to inform you, it 
> exists to make money for the owners of said media.


Well, you are Chicken Little running around screaming "The Sky is Falling."  
Some of us here lost friends and/or family that day.  You, seem to think it is more important to trash the Government than to pay homage to the fallen citizens.  
Very personal to me.  Thanx for trashing my friends' sacrifices.  What a guy!!! :Angry1:

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> it is absolutely not necessary to account for passengers who may or may not have been on any specific flight, or for that matter may or may not be real, the fact of the alleged airliner crash into the tower, being totally bogus, is the show-stopper here.


 It is necessary to account for the passengers and they were on the flights. Also, you have not proven that airliners did not crash into the towers. Assertion is not proof. If you want to graduate from the kids table you need to learn how to converse with us adults. Adults rely on evidence, not fantasy and they do not simply dismiss the lives of 146 people on board Flights 175 and 11 or the phone calls that some of them made which are recorded and available for anyone with a functioning brain cell to listen to.

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## Kodiak

> 


@ 1:45 Hitler wasn't circumsized...........ya learn something new every day.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## Louise

> Often in forums there is supposed to be some measure of good diplomacy & polite interaction between forum participants.
> so how is it justified that people return insults, for attempts at logical debate.


Maybe because 3000 innocent people died a very gruesome death that day. And you are belittling them all, by trying to pretend there were no airplanes hijacked and smashing into the towers. You are worthy of any insults that come your way, in my opinion. 

I know several people that died in that tragic attack. For you to mock them is unforgivable.

----------

Daily Bread (02-13-2018),Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## NuYawka

> absolutely doesn't matter, the fact is that the media's lame excuses  coupled with the bogus video they presented makes the case
> for total media fraud.  can you get your head around that?


It DOES matter. 
You'll never convince anybody who saw it happen RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR OWN TWO EYES that a video that could've been ALTERED in any kind of way is the real thing.

The real thing happened right in front of my eyes. Take your videos and shove them up Midgardian and Oskar's asses.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Well sonny, it is like this. People who were aware (not having their mommy wipe their face while playing with rattles) saw the airplanes crash into the buildings. Furthermore, real people bought fares and boarded those flights. They made phone calls from inside the airplanes saying that the planes had been hijacked. When the airplanes hit the buildings those calls stopped (it is hard for a dead person to carry on a telephone conversation). Those airplanes and people are no more. If you think that no airplanes crashed into the towers it is incumbent on you to account for the people and the aircraft if you do not believe they were in the wreckage of the collapsed towers. You have your assignment, so get to it bud.


it is incumbent on the one who first makes a given claim to substantiate said claim, therefore the mainstream media has made the claim that airliners were used as weapons, however has not backed up that claim with anything concrete.  Note that the wreckage at the WTC was not actually inventoried to know exactly how much of the airliners were recovered, the forensic examination of bits was never done, the media  rests its case heavily on the emotional appeal by stating that eye-witnesses saw the airliners, however there are at least two witnesses on record who say NO PLANE, it was a bomb.
also the video of the alleged penetration by "FLT175" is more than highly suspect it is nothing more than B movie special effects.

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## valley ranch

> WHY should anyone care about the stall speed? bottom line here is that I said challenge anything that I have posted,
> what is the purpose of having anything to do with an airliners stall speed?
> has anyone posting here actually read what I have written?


Greetings ~ "What you've written" is no more than ~cliche ~ some terms given you ~ on a video or magazine ~ for instance ~: The speed the falling material ~ you preference that it move ~ faster or slower ~ is nonsense ~ no care as to where you got the phrase ~ or who you've listened to ~ It fell restricted by ~ what was between the material and what was below ~ hampering it's race to mineral earth ```

You seem to have trouble ~ considering what we have said ~ after reading your presentation ~ of what you've had presented to you ~ we answered ``` 

We've listened to you ~ do your self ~ and us ~ a good turn ~ and not jump ahead ~ posting without thought ```

We are not ~ trying to confuse you with facts ~ if your mind is made up ~ why strike up a conversation ~ with of people who can think ```

----------

Kodiak (02-13-2018),Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## Rutabaga



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## NuYawka

> Were you still a sperm waiting for a chance to gang rape an egg?


LOL, that's a good one.

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## n0spam4me

note for the random lurker to this thread, see the waste of space employed by the opposition to the TRUTH movement 
one can well wonder why they do not straight up engage on the subject rather than spewing nonsense into the thread.

----------


## Louise

> I question what is the foundation for said "facts" what evidence convinces you that the above statement is indeed unquestionable fact?


I  knew someone that was killed on the American Airlines flight. His DNA was found sat the scene at given to his wife so she could have a funeral for him. 

I saw video which clearly showed him standing in line at the gate, right before he boarded. 






Atta (blue shirt) and Omari at Portland International Jetport, passing through security on the morning of 9/11
Mohamed Atta, the ringleader of the attacks, and a fellow hijacker, Abdulaziz al-Omari, arrived at Portland International Jetport at 05:41 Eastern Daylight Time on September 11, 2001. They boarded Colgan Air Flight 5930, which was scheduled to depart at 06:00 from Portland, Maine, and fly to Boston. Both hijackers had first class tickets with a connecting flight to Los Angeles; Atta checked in two bags, Omari none.[3] When they checked in, the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS) selected Atta for extra luggage scrutiny, but he boarded without incident.[10]The flight from Portland departed on time and arrived in Boston at 06:45. Three other hijackers, Waleed al-Shehri, Wail al-Shehri, and Satam al-Suqami, arrived at Logan Airport at 06:45, having left their rental car in the airport parking facility. At 06:52, Marwan al-Shehhi, the hijacker pilot of United Airlines Flight 175, made a call from a pay phone in Logan Airport to Atta's cell phone.[3][11]
Since they were not given boarding passes for Flight 11 in Portland, Atta and Omari checked in and went through security in Boston.[12] In the rushed check-in after the flight from Portland, airline officials did not load Atta's bags on Flight 11.[13][14] Suqami, Wail al-Shehri, and Waleed al-Shehri also checked in for the flight in Boston. Wail al-Shehri and Suqami each checked one bag; Waleed al-Shehri did not check any bags.[3]CAPPS selected all three for a detailed luggage check.[15] As the CAPPS' screening was only for luggage, the three hijackers did not undergo any extra scrutiny at the passenger security checkpoint.[16]
By 07:40, all five hijackers were aboard the flight, scheduled to depart at 07:45.[11][17] Mohamed Atta sat in business class seat 8D with Abdulaziz al-Omari in 8G and Suqami in 10B. Waleed al-Shehri and Wail al-Shehri sat in first class seats 2B and 2A.[15] At 07:46, one minute behind schedule, the aircraft received clearance to push back from Gate B32,[18] and was cleared to taxi to the runway at 07:50. The aircraft began its takeoff run from Logan International Airport at 07:59 from runway 4R.[19][20]

----------


## NuYawka

> Well, this thread has had one accomplishment I never thought I would see happen.  It got at least a half dozen members agreeing with Sooda on something she posted.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day.  :Smile:

----------


## Rutabaga

> "note the plane has NOT struct the tower yet..."  exactly how do you get that from this picture?
> and may I point out that when one looks at any of the videos presented by the media as allegedly showing "FLT175" crashing into the south tower,
> the video clearly shows an image that glides into the wall, like a B movie ghost walking through a wall, where is the initial contact jolt? where is the reduction in speed caused by the resistance offered up by the structure of the tower?


i saw a picture of a giraffe eating a popsicle..

does that count?

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NuYawka (02-13-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Maybe because 3000 innocent people died a very gruesome death that day. And you are belittling them all, by trying to pretend there were no airplanes hijacked and smashing into the towers. You are worthy of any insults that come your way, in my opinion. 
> 
> I know several people that died in that tragic attack. For you to mock them is unforgivable.


would you rather support a LIE about how they died or would you like to learn the truth?

----------


## Louise

> note for the random lurker to this thread, see the waste of space employed by the opposition to the TRUTH movement 
> one can well wonder why they do not straight up engage on the subject rather than spewing nonsense into the thread.


You have not answered any of my questions. *Where are the passengers who boarded the American Airlines Flight 11 that morning in Logan Airport? 

SIMPLE Question---where are they?*

----------


## Rutabaga

> note for the random lurker to this thread, see the waste of space employed by the opposition to the TRUTH movement 
> one can well wonder why they do not straight up engage on the subject rather than spewing nonsense into the thread.


like this?

----------


## Louise

> would you rather support a LIE about how they died or would you like to learn the truth?


Answer our very simple questions. *Where are the passengers who boarded those planes?*

----------


## n0spam4me

> I  knew someone that was killed on the American Airlines flight. His DNA was found sat the scene at given to his wife so she could have a funeral for him. 
> 
> I saw video which clearly showed him standing in line at the gate, right before he boarded. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


again, where is the hard evidence, that is the accounting for the alleged airliner wreckage? how much of what was recovered, and was any of it actually examined properly to know if it was a bit of an airliner or some other random bit of aluminum from the skyscraper?

----------


## Rutabaga

> You have not answered any of my questions. *Where are the passengers who boarded the American Airlines Flight 11 that morning in Logan Airport? 
> 
> SIMPLE Question---where are they?*


crazies never answer questions,,,because the're crazy...

----------


## n0spam4me

> Answer our very simple questions. *Where are the passengers who boarded those planes?*


do tell, if say an airplane were to have impacted the tower, would it matter for the video of said event, if the plane had people on-board
or was remote controlled and had no people on-board?

----------


## NuYawka

> i saw a picture of a giraffe eating a popsicle..
> 
> does that count?


What about popcorn?

----------

Kodiak (02-13-2018),Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

This thread has everything: a "truth"er, rational folks, Lovecraft, Hitler, and deep discussions about aluminum.

----------

Rutabaga (02-13-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> do tell, if say an airplane were to have impacted the tower, would it matter for the video of said event, if the plane had people on-board
> or was remote controlled and had no people on-board?


That doesn't answer the question. WHERE are the people who boarded those airplanes?

----------


## Louise

> again, where is the hard evidence, that is the accounting for the alleged airliner wreckage? how much of what was recovered, and was any of it actually examined properly to know if it was a bit of an airliner or some other random bit of aluminum from the skyscraper?


YES, in fact, it was examined very closely. 

But now you can answer a question for me. Where are the passengers that boarded this Boston to LA flight? If there were no planes hitting the Towers, where did all of those passengers go?

----------


## Roadmaster

We are lied to so much by the media. Just the JFK files Trump released proved it. Read it and see how many things they lied about.

----------


## Louise

> do tell, if say an airplane were to have impacted the tower, would it matter for the video of said event, if the plane had people on-board
> or was remote controlled and had no people on-board?


Well YES, it would matter. You see, people actually boarded those planes. We have hundreds of witnesses, People dropped of friends and loved ones that morning, and many saw them BOARDING THE PLANES.  They hugged them goodbye, and watched them go to the gate to board the plane. 

So where did all of these people disappear to, if there were no people on board the planes?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

@n0spam4me must think this was faked.

----------

valley ranch (02-13-2018)

----------


## Rutabaga

> @n0spam4me must think this was faked.


nospam is just getting his kicks...just a kid playing in the basement...

like all kids they quickly get bored...he'll be nappers soon... :Thumbsup20:

----------


## Louise

> do tell, if say an airplane were to have impacted the tower, would it matter for the video of said event, if the plane had people on-board
> or was remote controlled and had no people on-board?


*FLIGHT 11

Alberto Dominguez

Seat 11J. His ID happened thanks to "new DNA technology."
(Stephanie Gaskell, "9/11 Plane Passenger ID’d," nypost.com,4/11/2007)
and
https://web.archive.org/web/20121024...1E7A1D9B938FDC

Judy Larocque

Seat 26J. Speaking of Judy’s daughter: "She could be having dinner, and get a phone call that they found another piece of her mother’s remains."
(Tovia Smith, "Daughter Channels Sept. 11 Grief Into Film, Activism," npr.org, 9/7/2011)

A driver’s license and credit card turned up from AA11 passenger Judy Larocque, Smithsonian says. "The FBI recovered these cards from the debris," which means Fresh Kills. (Other cards were found for passengers. See bottom of the post.)

Daniel Lewin

Seat 9B. "Daniel Lewin, a former Israeli soldier, had been a successful dot-com businessman. He was also most likely the first to die…[…] by a twist of fate he was one of the last we identified, an identification that we did not complete until June 3, 2004. The family was notified after that…."
Remember Shaler’s book was published in 2005. Lewin wasn’t one of the last identified.
“The small piece of tissue we eventually identified as coming from him had been recovered in 2002. Orchid performed SNP typing and sent us the data in April 2004. Using DNAView, Elaine’s [last name Mar] staff performed an SNP kinship analysis and then confirmed the identification by STR typing of the toothbrush.”
(Robert C. Shaler, Who They Were – Inside the World Trade Center DNA Story: The Unprecedented Effort to Identify the Missing, Free Press, New York, 2005, p. 312.)

Sara Low

Flight attendant. No DNA specifically mentioned; only her hand and/or "remains." It's possible her 2 found rings were used to ID the hand. “Mr. Low, the self-made owner of a small limestone mining company in Batesville, Ark., sometimes wears a silver and lapis lazuli ring he gave to his daughter that was found in the wreckage.”
(Anemona Hartolollis, “Little-Noticed 9/11 Lawsuits Will Go to Trial,” New York Times, 9/4/2007)

Her mom wears it around her neck on a black cord. “Recovery workers found the ring with another of Sara’s rings in the World Trade Center rubble and returned them to the Low family in New York last month.” …
“‘When she worked, Sara wore both of the rings together on her right hand,’ Bobbie Low said.
“The Low family chose to cremate Sara’s remains while in New York. They carried her ashes home to Batesville wrapped in one of the 28-year-old’s flight attendant uniforms and an American flag.”
(Melissa Nelson, “Family remembers American Airlines flight attendant,” 2002)
http://thecabin.net/stories/091102/s...l#.V975Q8WqmSo

Karen Ann Martin

Flight attendant. “The New York medical examiner’s office said in a statement that it had now identified remains of Karen Ann Martin, the 40-year-old head flight attendant on American Airlines Flight 11, which slammed into the trade center’s north tower. Remains of Douglas Joel Stone, 54, who was a passenger on the same flight as Martin, were also identified.”
("Remains of two 9/11 victims identified," cnn.com, 11/2/2006)
https://web.archive.org/web/20061103...eut/index.html

Laura Lee Morabito

Seat 2D. "Now, Morabito, 45, formerly of Framingham, is getting back her remains, just identified this week, and her wedding ring.
Although his wife’s hand was pulled from the ashes of the north tower six years ago, with the ring on it…."
(Brian R. Ballou, 9/16/2007)
http://www.boston.com/news/local/art..._laid_to_rest/
also
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/ne...ups-and-downs/
“wedding ring still intact on her hand”

*Douglas Joel Stone

Seat 25B. “Remains of Douglas Joel Stone, 54, who was a passenger on the same flight as Martin, were also identified.” (see Karen Ann Martin)
(“Remains of two 9/11 victims identified,” cnn.com, 11/2/2006)


James A. Trentini

Seat 30A. “A hand found in the rubble at ground zero was matched through DNA testing to Trentini, a 65-year-old retired schoolteacher from Everett, Mass., it was reported. Trentini and his wife, Mary, 67, were flying to Los Angeles Sept. 11 on Flight 11 to visit their grandchildren. It is the first time DNA has been able to verify the identity of any victims aboard the two planes that were flown into the World Trade Center, according to the report. The fingerprints matched Trentini’s, and his college ring, believed to be his Wofford ring, was still on his finger, Trentini’s sister, Patricia Malatesta, said.” (“Wofford Alumnus First WTC Victim Identified Through DNA,” wofford.edu, March 19, 2002)
https://www.wofford.edu/newsroom/content.aspx?id=2676

Candace Lee Williams

Seat 24A. Her mother Sherri A. Williams speaks in a video interview Sept. 9, 2002 found at 



At video run time 11:58 (3:10 YouTube version): “Two weeks after that, a Sergeant from my home town came to my door and they had to identify parts of her body. They have 16 trailers full of body parts at the coroner’s office. And they did identify Candace.”

See about 10:00 (1:37 YouTube): June 1, when they got permission to search the Deutsche Bank Building, Candace’s wallet was found “in excellent condition” (Perhaps inside her pocketbook “that was flown” a block into that building). Coincidentally in the search party who found it was Sherri’s cousin Bobby, a Bronx fireman who volunteered that day. At 10:20 (1:37 YT): “Her backp– pocketbook (slurred speech) was very badly damaged.”

Another source for the “16 trailers full of body parts” comment: “A year later, the quest to identify those who died in the calamity carries on… […] …relatives who visited the huge white tent outside the office, on E. 30th St., where 16 refrigerated trailers hold the remains recovered from Ground Zero and the Fresh Kills landfill.”
(Patrice O’Shaughnessy, “More Than Half of Victims ID’d,” nydailynews.com, 9/11/2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20090825...ctims_idd.html



*Hey Einstein, Do these ^^^  count as facts for you?   Where did all of that DNA and tissue and bones and wedding rings come from if there were no passengers onboard?*

----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## tiny1

> would you rather support a LIE about how they died or would you like to learn the truth?


Look, man.  I am growing weary of your blatant disrespect.
I lost friends.  No amount of conspiracy theory can undo that.  They're gone, and I cannot affect that, either.   And, subscribing to Chicken Little Conspiracy will not bring them back.
People ask you truthful questions, and you seem to dismiss them.  Answer all the questions you can, and then, STHU.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

I've found them.  I've found them

The Missing Aircraft I mean

----------


## Rutabaga



----------


## n0spam4me

there is a new war, not like WW1 or WW2, this war is about psychological tactics, it is most certainly a war for the hearts & minds of people.
I see a lot of people here with clear loyalty to a side in this conflict.  that is admirable, give it your best for your side, be very clear as to what it is you are fighting for and make your voice heard!  be certain as to what it is that your side stands for, so that you can properly support them.

----------


## NuYawka

> there is a new war, not like WW1 or WW2, this war is about psychological tactics, it is most certainly a war for the hearts & minds of people.
> I see a lot of people here with clear loyalty to a side in this conflict.  that is admirable, give it your best for your side, be very clear as to what it is you are fighting for and make your voice heard!  be certain as to what it is that your side stands for, so that you can properly support them.


Fuck off (nothing personal, as per Forum rules).

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018),Louise (02-13-2018)

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## n0spam4me

will people admit to and indeed rescind/correct their assumptions about what I believe?
if you really haven't read what I have written, why should you speculate about what I believe?

----------


## NuYawka

> will people admit to and indeed rescind/correct their assumptions about what I believe?
> if you really haven't read what I have written, why should you speculate about what I believe?


Fuck off (nothing personal, as per Forum rules).

----------

Dr. Felix Birdbiter (02-13-2018)

----------


## valley ranch



----------


## n0spam4me

> 


when attempting to access that graphic, my anti-virus went on red-alert! 
what are you trying to pull here?

----------


## valley ranch



----------

Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Louise

> will people admit to and indeed rescind/correct their assumptions about what I believe?
> if you really haven't read what I have written, why should you speculate about what I believe?


Why won't you answer the simplest of questions? 

Where did all of the severed hands, DNA and scorched body tissue come from, that matched the missing passengers, if there were no planes smashing into the towers. 

ANSWER THAT QUESTION and I will consider you a serious person looking for the truth.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-14-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

> Why won't you answer the simplest of questions? 
> 
> Where did all of the severed hands, DNA and scorched body tissue come from, that matched the missing passengers, if there were no planes smashing into the towers. 
> 
> ANSWER THAT QUESTION and I will consider you a serious person looking for the truth.


He won't.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Sara flew high and was brought Low.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Here are eyewitness accounts of an airplane (American Flight 11) flying over Manhattan before crashing into the North Tower and of those who saw United Flight 175 before it crashed into the South Tower.

I will quote the first one, @n0spam4me can read the rest at his leisure.




> At approximately 0845, I, Officers Patrick McNerney and Jose Sanchez, were on routine patrol at the corner of 42nd street and 8th Avenue. As I was looking east on 42nd street, I observed a commercial passenger jet flying over at an extremely low altitude, and heading south. ...I thought that the pilot was attempting to make an emergency landing in the harbor off lower Manhattan. ...It was just east of the Empire State Building, and, to my best estimation, no higher than 500' above it. 
> 
> During this time, I looked for signs of distress. I was trying to observe the plane, as closely as I could for smoke, fire, or any type of vapor trail. There was none. The landing gear was up and the doors that house the gear closed. The plane was, as I stated, traveling south and was moving at a high rate of speed. It was flying level and straight. The pilot did not appear to be fighting to maintain control of the aircraft. PAPD Sgt William Ross Source (p. 43)



https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7li...untsofthenycai

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

> Here are eyewitness accounts of an airplane (American Flight 11) flying over Manhattan before crashing into the North Tower and of those who saw United Flight 175 before it crashed into the South Tower.
> 
> I will quote the first one, @n0spam4me can read the rest at his leisure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7li...untsofthenycai


He won't care.
I'M an eyewitness and he's deaf to that.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018),Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-13-2018)

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> when attempting to access that graphic, my anti-virus went on red-alert! 
> what are you trying to pull here?



Tell us true now.  Did your mother have any children that lived?

----------


## Sled Dog

> the separate case of the airliners allegedly penetrating the wall(s) of the towers
> is completely explainable using logic.  Note that in the case of an airliner allegedly traveling >500 mph
> strikes a wall ( such as the WTC tower wall ) there would have to be a huge jolt, ( >100 g ) 
> and as such, this jolt would stress the aircraft as if it had been hit with a big hammer.
> now in addition to the initial jolt, there would have to be on-going deceleration.
> Note that at a deceleration rate of just 1mph/millisecond, this results in >45 g 
> at that amount of deceleration, a ton of luggage in the aircraft would exert >45 tons against
> the bulkhead in front of it.  This deceleration force would apply to the entire aircraft and 
> would stress the aircraft beyond its breaking point.



So you mean the airplanes didn't survive the attack on 9-11?

Wow!

Nobody ever thought of that before!

You're a genius.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> He won't.


That has been made clear.

----------


## Sled Dog

> so, in order for what was observed to be true, the wall of the WTC tower would have had to present so little resistance
> as to be like a wall made of paper.  The problem that everybody should see here is that at >500 mph, displacing tons
> of mass in order to make the hole, would require a lot of energy and would by necessity slow down the airliner significantly.
> this in turn would stress the airliner beyond it breaking point and there would have to be tons of airliner wreckage in the street 
> on the south side of the south tower.  This did not happen, therefore the story about "FLT175" is a lie.


What was the kinetic energy of the airplane?

Did the airplane leave the building, like Elvis?

No.

So 100% of the airplane's KE was deposited into the building.

And, I'm still amazed that the airplane was broken in that crash.  I can't imagine how that could happen, and I have a degree in aerospace engineering.

It's sure a mystery.

----------


## Sled Dog

> there is a new war, not like WW1 or WW2, this war is about psychological tactics, it is most certainly a war for the hearts & minds of people.
> I see a lot of people here with clear loyalty to a side in this conflict.  that is admirable, give it your best for your side, be very clear as to what it is you are fighting for and make your voice heard!  be certain as to what it is that your side stands for, so that you can properly support them.



Yep.  

The battle lines are drawn.

One side knows that the WTC collapsed because of airplane impacts.  

These people are the Realists.

The other side believes in Hillary, ninja demolition experts, Obama, glowball warming and unicorns.

We call them morons.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

"The other side believes in Hillary, ninja demolition experts, Obama, glowball warming and unicorns."

Very funny, but WRONG, you have no idea what I really believe, and indeed it is obvious that nobody on this forum has actually read what I wrote.
oh well .... I'm sorry for AMERICA that this is the state of affairs, a totally polarized population that can not even discuss issues.

have a nice day : ) 

.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Here are eyewitness accounts of an airplane (American Flight 11) flying over Manhattan before crashing into the North Tower and of those who saw United Flight 175 before it crashed into the South Tower.
> 
> I will quote the first one, @n0spam4me can read the rest at his leisure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7li...untsofthenycai


Question: did Sgt Ross mention seeing the airliner penetrate the wall of the skyscraper?
the actual conditions of the alleged penetration still depend upon cartoon physics, just like the Road-Runner leaving a cut-out in a wall or door as it zooms through.  When the video of an event is contradictory to the eye witness testimony, the video wins unless there is compelling evidence that said video has been altered.

----------


## n0spam4me

BTW: the perpetrators or people who were working closely with the perpetrators, had total control over ALL of the evidence on 9/11/2001

so what do we have?

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> "The other side believes in Hillary, ninja demolition experts, Obama, glowball warming and unicorns."
> 
> Very funny, but WRONG, you have no idea what I really believe, and indeed it is obvious that nobody on this forum has actually read what I wrote.
> oh well .... I'm sorry for AMERICA that this is the state of affairs, a totally polarized population that can not even discuss issues.
> 
> have a nice day : ) 
> 
> .


It is not possible to know what you believe, when questioned you just respond with "you have not read what I wrote" Let me try it one more (no doubt, frivolous time).

If it was not planes, WHAT WAS IT?

----------


## n0spam4me

> It is not possible to know what you believe, when questioned you just respond with "you have not read what I wrote" Let me try it one more (no doubt, frivolous time).
> 
> If it was not planes, WHAT WAS IT?


Request for speculation, I do not speculate, logic dictates that it is possible to know what something isn't
without having to define what it is.

BTW: this should not be about demonizing me, this should be about what LOGIC tells us about the events of 9/11/2001

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Request for speculation, I do not speculate, logic dictates that it is possible to know what something isn't
> without having to define what it is.
> 
> BTW: this should not be about demonizing me, this should be about what LOGIC tells us about the events of 9/11/2001


Nice strawman wrapped in a deflection. Your OP and everything that has followed, is nothing but wild speculation, in the face of overwhelming evidence.

You have several people in this thread that either have deceased family or friends or saw it happen, with their own eyes @NuYawka comes to mind.

Also, your statement........
"logic dictates that it is possible to know what something isn't

without having to define what it is."........

Demonstrates, you are not familiar with logic.

SO....WHAT REALLY HAPPENED?

^ YOU KEEP DUCKING THIS QUESTION^
Wonder why @n0spam4me 

Time to put up or shut up. If you wont, off to the ignore, Neverland ye shall be banished.

----------


## n0spam4me

Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
{ as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
> and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
> { as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.


What a lame ass avoidance... :Yawn:

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Nice strawman wrapped in a deflection. Your OP and everything that has followed, is nothing but wild speculation, in the face of overwhelming evidence.
> 
> You have several people in this thread that either have deceased family or friends or saw it happen, with their own eyes @NuYawka comes to mind.
> 
> Also, your statement........
> "logic dictates that it is possible to know what something isn't
> 
> without having to define what it is."........
> 
> ...


Watch out for the Deeboes of debate.... :Yawn: 




> Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
> and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
> { as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.

----------


## Louise

> Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
> and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
> { as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.


It is NOT an illusion when 2900 people actually die gruesome deaths. Those people have perished. It was not a magic trick or a false flag or hired actors. 

These were living, breathing people, from all walks of life, who DIED that die. 

Can't you grasp the enormity of that? 

Until you can explain to us where those people went, and how their charred remains and wedding rings and drivers licenses  and teeth and DNA were found in the rubble, I will consider you a vile troll.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-14-2018),sooda (02-14-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> It is NOT an illusion when 2900 people actually die gruesome deaths. Those people have perished. It was not a magic trick or a false flag or hired actors. 
> 
> These were living, breathing people, from all walks of life, who DIED that die. 
> 
> Can't you grasp the enormity of that? 
> 
> Until you can explain to us where those people went, and how their charred remains and wedding rings and drivers licenses  and teeth and DNA were found in the rubble, I will consider you a vile troll.


AMEN, 99.9999% if not 100.000% do the same. SOB has called TPF  eyewitnesses liars.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## Louise

> Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
> and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
> { as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.


This is so silly to compare the two. 

I went to Magic Castle. I saw the magician create the illusion that he was closing the pretty blonde assistant into a trunk with sharp knives on the top and bottom. It looked like she was going to be cut to pieces. 

But hey, guess what, it was an illusion, and so she reappeared, all in one piece. 


How can you compare 9/11 to that kind of illusion?  Those people did not reappear , all healthy and ready to return home.  If it was just an 'illusion'--as you like to call it---those 2900 innocents would have returned to their families. NONE OF THEM EVER DID.


How do you explain that, if this was just a conspiracy, and an illusion, crafted by 'them.'  How do you explain the sudden disappearance of 2900 people?

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-14-2018),sooda (02-14-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> This is so silly to compare the two. 
> 
> I went to Magic Castle. I saw the magician create the illusion that he was closing the pretty blonde assistant into a trunk with sharp knives on the top and bottom. It looked like she was going to be cut to pieces. 
> 
> But hey, guess what, it was an illusion, and so she reappeared, all in one piece. 
> 
> 
> How can you compare 9/11 to that kind of illusion?  Those people did not reappear , all healthy and ready to return home.  If it was just an 'illusion'--as you like to call it---those 2900 innocents would have returned to their families. NONE OF THEM EVER DID.
> 
> ...


Like you said, vile troll. Logging off, see ya later Louise.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

People refuse to understand because they don't want to ..... 
so sad really.
.
is AMERICA doomed?

----------


## MedicineBow

> People refuse to understand because they don't want to ..... 
> so sad really.
> .
> is AMERICA doomed?


 Only those refusing to seek mental healthcare are doomed. Throw in a few left wing nuts with it.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Only those refusing to seek mental healthcare are doomed. Throw in a few left wing nuts with it.


you do realize of course, that in totalitarian regimes 
Dissidents were institutionalized and labeled mentally unstable in order to suppress dissent.
THINK ABOUT IT.

----------


## Louise

> People refuse to understand because they don't want to ..... 
> so sad really.
> .
> is AMERICA doomed?


Answer the simple question---where did all of the passengers go? 

If you can answer that question, I will take your views seriously.  Go ahead, answer the question...

----------

sooda (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Answer the simple question---where did all of the passengers go? 
> 
> If you can answer that question, I will take your views seriously.  Go ahead, answer the question...


this question can not be answered given present data,
maybe after a VERY intense investigation, some very good educated guesses can be had,
but with present data, the question can not be answered.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> this question can not be answered given present data,
> maybe after a VERY intense investigation, some very good educated guesses can be had,
> but with present data, the question can not be answered.


thTL1FPUFJ.jpgHumor us with your best guess. Did he hear about human remains DNA tested?

----------


## n0spam4me

> thTL1FPUFJ.jpgHumor us with your best guess. Did he hear about human remains DNA tested?


and not surprising given the fact that the perpetrators had total control over the crime scene.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> and not surprising given the fact that the perpetrators had total control over the crime scene.


You forgot to give us your guess.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## Louise

> this question can not be answered given present data,
> maybe after a VERY intense investigation, some very good educated guesses can be had,
> but with present data, the question can not be answered.


OK, just give us a few possibilities. 

There are severed hands, with matching DNA to the missing passengers. And some wedding rings, and scorched tissue, and teeth.  All with matching DNA..


Give us a possibility or two, of how that could be found in the rubble, if those were not really planes full of passengers...

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> OK, just give us a few possibilities. 
> 
> There are severed hands, with matching DNA to the missing passengers. And some wedding rings, and scorched tissue, and teeth.  All with matching DNA..
> 
> 
> Give us a possibility or two, of how that could be found in the rubble, if those were not really planes full of passengers...


do you get it that the perpetrators had total control over the crime scene?

----------


## n0spam4me

> You forgot to give us your guess.


because this is not about speculation, this is about making conclusions based upon evidence that we have
not guesses. 
.................... can we have agreement here?

----------


## Louise

> do you get it that the perpetrators had total control over the crime scene?


So how did the perpetrators get severed hands of the missing passengers and their wedding rings.  My friend was given her dead husbands wedding ring, which was found with some of his charred tissue. 

How would the perpetrators have his wedding ring?

----------


## Louise

> because this is not about speculation, this is about making conclusions based upon evidence that we have
> not guesses. 
> .................... can we have agreement here?


One major piece of evidence is the 2900 'missing people.'  Tell us what you think about that evidence.  Where are these people?

----------

sooda (02-14-2018)

----------


## East of the Beast

> One major piece of evidence is the 2900 'missing people.'  Tell us what you think about that evidence.  Where are these people?


I suppose they were all kidnapped before the flight and are still being held in a deep, underground government bunker.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018),sooda (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> One major piece of evidence is the 2900 'missing people.'  Tell us what you think about that evidence.  Where are these people?


The question of "where are the people" is at present unaswerable.  It is unknown for that list of aprox 2900 names, how many are fake, How many were people who had to "disappear" .... or? and rather than speculate, can we deal with things we have proper evidence about?

----------


## sooda

> The question of "where are the people" is at present unaswerable.  It is unknown for that list of aprox 2900 names, how many are fake, How many were people who had to "disappear" .... or? and rather than speculate, can we deal with things we have proper evidence about?


LOLOLOL.. Its a highly important question.. That shreds your crackpot theories.

----------

Louise (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> LOLOLOL.. Its a highly important question.. That shreds your crackpot theories.


OK, on the subject of demanding evidence, where are the DOCUMENTED records of the 4 alleged airliner crashes,
that is the accounting for how much of each alleged airliner was recovered and identified as having been part of the aircraft in question?

----------


## TPP

> The question of "where are the people" is at present unaswerable.  It is unknown for that list of aprox 2900 names, how many are fake, How many were people who had to "disappear" .... or? and rather than speculate, can we deal with things we have proper evidence about?


Yes, you can't explain them, therefore they never existed. We figured that out a long time ago.

----------


## TPP

> do you get it that the perpetrators had total control over the crime scene?


Yes, total control of the identities of all those people who made reservations both privately using real credit cards, by companies with real accounts and through real travel agencies. Total control over the airline, the airport authorities and their employees plus all the other people involved in operating the flights such as caterers and fuelers. Total control of faking the ATC recordings and radar traces. Total control over all the eye witnesses, photographers and media that recorded the aircraft striking the buildings. And that's just for starters.

Yet no one has spilled the beans.

You truthers are all the same, you latch on to something you see as an inconsistency, whether it is real or imagined, then desperately hang on to it like a dog with bone in spite of all the documented, physical and eyewitness evidence that says you are full of shit.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-14-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Yes, total control of the identities of all those people who made reservations both privately using real credit cards, by companies with real accounts and through real travel agencies. Total control over the airline, the airport authorities and their employees plus all the other people involved in operating the flights such as caterers and fuelers. Total control of faking the ATC recordings and radar traces. Total control over all the eye witnesses, photographers and media that recorded the aircraft striking the buildings. And that's just for starters.
> 
> Yet no one has spilled the beans.
> 
> You truthers are all the same, you latch on to something you see as an inconsistency, whether it is real or imagined, then desperately hang on to it like a dog with bone in spite of all the documented, physical and eyewitness evidence that says you are full of shit.


Total stalemate here, YOU can not explain how an airliner could penetrate a wall without slowing down & busting up into a multitude of bits, BEFORE it had any opportunity to make that wing shaped gash.

----------


## TPP

> Total stalemate here, YOU can not explain how an airliner could penetrate a wall without slowing down & busting up into a multitude of bits, BEFORE it had any opportunity to make that wing shaped gash.


The burden of proof is on you boyo. A wing is just a big hollow fuel tank with spar running along the front and back to attach the engines, flight controls and landing gear. The gear and engines are the only large heavy pieces and the only ones that might be expected to penetrate a fortified building such as the Pentagon.

----------


## n0spam4me

> The burden of proof is on you boyo. A wing is just a big hollow fuel tank with spar running along the front and back to attach the engines, flight controls and landing gear. The gear and engines are the only large heavy pieces and the only ones that might be expected to penetrate a fortified building such as the Pentagon.


Given that in attempting to penetrate a wall such as the WTC tower wall, an airliner would have to meet resistance
and in that resistance there would be slowing down of the aircraft.  and in rapid deceleration, there would be stress 
on the airliner structure, therefore, if there was supposed to be sufficient energy & time to punch a hole in the wall
and displace mass and stuff a 5 meter dia aircraft body into floors spaced 3.6 meters apart.  Then there would most
certainly be sufficient time & energy to bust up the airliner in a big way and do so very quickly.

----------


## Sled Dog

> "The other side believes in Hillary, ninja demolition experts, Obama, glowball warming and unicorns."
> 
> Very funny, but WRONG, you have no idea what I really believe, and indeed it is obvious that nobody on this forum has actually read what I wrote.
> oh well .... I'm sorry for AMERICA that this is the state of affairs, a totally polarized population that can not even discuss issues.
> 
> have a nice day : ) 
> 
> .



If you're not posting what you believe, you're trolling.

Thanks for the confession.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> The question of "where are the people" is at present unaswerable.  It is unknown for that list of aprox 2900 names, how many are fake, How many were people who had to "disappear" .... or? and rather than speculate, can we deal with things we have proper evidence about?


You should spout that bullshit in the face of a family member who lost a loved one.

----------

Kodiak (02-14-2018)

----------


## Sled Dog

> Does anyone on this forum actually get it that its possible to see an illusion done
> and KNOW that its an illusion ( stage magic ... whatever ) and not have to
> { as a condition of knowing that it was an illusion } explain how it was done.



No illusions on 9-11.

Just assholes and now there's Rodents.

----------


## Sled Dog

> Total stalemate here, YOU can not explain how an airliner could penetrate a wall without slowing down & busting up into a multitude of bits, BEFORE it had any opportunity to make that wing shaped gash.


What kind of total retard are you?

I declare that you're under Troll Rules.

Seriously.

You don't know shit about buildings.

You don't know shit about airplanes.

I know plenty about both, and I'm not going to waste time explaining anything to a freaking retarded troll.

The only question that has to be answered is this:

When is your stupid ass going to be banned?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

This thread is _still_ going?

----------

Kodiak (02-16-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> This thread is _still_ going?


The "truthers" will never go away, its the highest form of patriotism to ask questions and indeed demand answers.

The fact that so many people have been totally bamboozled into thinking that the image shown on the Evan Fairbanks video
represents anything even close to what should be observed if an airliner were to crash into a skyscraper ...
.
just what exactly is going on around here?

----------


## sooda

> The "truthers" will never go away, its the highest form of patriotism to ask questions and indeed demand answers.
> The fact that so many people have been totally bamboozled into thinking that the image shown on the Evan Fairbanks video
> represents anything even close to what should be observed if an airliner were to crash into a skyscraper ...
> .
> just what exactly is going on around here?


LOLOL.. Are you a teen-ager? These conspiracy theories are really asinine and depend on NOT asking pertinent questions.. like where are the passengers who were traveling on all those aircraft?

Are you employed, in school? I don't get it.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> The "truthers" will never go away,


Obsession with something, especially fantasy, is an obvious indicator of mental illness. 
.



> just what exactly is going on around here?


Crazies who have no grasp of reality, keep on spamming the forum.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Obsession with something, especially fantasy, is an obvious indicator of mental illness. 
> .
> 
> 
> Crazies who have no grasp of reality, keep on spamming the forum.


so it is YOUR OPINION, that skyscrapers can "collapse" down at 64% of the acceleration of gravity in a strictly gravity driven event....
Is that it?

----------


## JustPassinThru

> so it is YOUR OPINION, that skyscrapers can "collapse" down at 64% of the acceleration of gravity in a strictly gravity driven event....
> Is that it?


Yes.

Only, not my opinion.  An appraisal of the incident by structural engineers.

That is their business - to design the structure so that even in a catastrophic event, the destruction is minimized.  In this case the utility conduit in the center of the building, was to act as a final, last support - prevent the structure from tipping over as it would be failing.

It wasn't JUST gravity, obviously.  It was intense heat applied to structural trusses, that led to a floor pancakining - and started the reaction.

But you're not happy with that answer because it doesn't feed your conspiracy theory.  Here's a proposal:  LEARN STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING.

Then you won't need kook theories to appear full of inside information - you'll have information, and you'll be able to make a living off it.

Babbling back these whackjob assertions that Dick Cheney and the Israeli Embassy, wired the building with explosives...or whatever it is you believe today...just makes you look like a fool.

----------

NuYawka (02-17-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> I am attempting to instigate discussion here and having tangents created by people who really don't care,
> is a total waste.


This thread is a waste of bandwidth.

----------

Kodiak (02-16-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> Yes.
> 
> Only, not my opinion.  An appraisal of the incident by structural engineers.
> 
> That is their business - to design the structure so that even in a catastrophic event, the destruction is minimized.  In this case the utility conduit in the center of the building, was to act as a final, last support - prevent the structure from tipping over as it would be failing.
> 
> It wasn't JUST gravity, obviously.  It was intense heat applied to structural trusses, that led to a floor pancakining - and started the reaction.
> 
> But you're not happy with that answer because it doesn't feed your conspiracy theory.  Here's a proposal:  LEARN STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING.
> ...


Please supply the quote where I mention either the Israeli Embassy or Dick Cheney ...... 

RE: engineers, there is a choice of experts here, some will tell you that its a totally natural thing to happen
and some will tell you that its only possible with an input of additional energy ( possibly explosives ) 
what experts do you want to agree with?

----------


## n0spam4me

> This thread is a waste of bandwidth.


thank U 4 your opinion .....

----------


## Ginger

*This thread is epic.*

----------


## Ginger

Life is good.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> Please supply the quote where I mention either the Israeli Embassy or Dick Cheney ...... 
> 
> RE: engineers, there is a choice of experts here, some will tell you that its a totally natural thing to happen
> and some will tell you that its only possible with an input of additional energy ( possibly explosives ) 
> what experts do you want to agree with?


Facts are not like opinions.  

Engineering is based on FACTS.  Scientific, measurable qualities of the material; and measurable loads on the application.

Different FACTS are FALSE facts.

There's idiots in every field, or who pretend to be in fields, who get all excited about a chance to have a tevee camera on their faces.  So they wear their badges, EXPERT...and spout back what the moron tevee babblers and their puppetmasters, want babbled back.

I've read the work of structural engineers who were not on tevee; who wrote for and spoke with writers for unglamorous publications.  And I've read reports of the design of the building, written long before the towers came down.

I'm done with you.  Conspiracy kooks annoy me and bore me.  They offer nothing but brainless hysteria, and their smirky assertion that they somehow have Secret Information.

You don't.  You don't even have specific, known information.

What you have is a mental problem.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Facts are not like opinions.  
> 
> Engineering is based on FACTS.  Scientific, measurable qualities of the material; and measurable loads on the application.
> 
> Different FACTS are FALSE facts.
> 
> There's idiots in every field, or who pretend to be in fields, who get all excited about a chance to have a tevee camera on their faces.  So they wear their badges, EXPERT...and spout back what the moron tevee babblers and their puppetmasters, want babbled back.
> 
> I've read the work of structural engineers who were not on tevee; who wrote for and spoke with writers for unglamorous publications.  And I've read reports of the design of the building, written long before the towers came down.
> ...


Question: if experts figure out things that YOU do not have the training & experience to know,
then how is it, in a world of conflicting expert statements on any given subject, that you personally decide what ( or who ) to believe ?

My point here is that unless you have some sort of learning disability YOU personally have all the intellectual capacity to understand the physics & science that defines what is wrong with the media reporting of the false flag that was 9/11/2001.

----------


## JustPassinThru

The supporting evidence; the cited science; the manner of presentation.

I'm not a scientist; but I know the Scientific Method.  For example, some clown wearing a badge that says CLIMATE SCIENTIST who is babbling about **COMPUTER MODELS** and **WE CAN'T WAIT TO ACT** is not practicing science.  He's ginning up hysteria and using his credentials to sway emotions.

Likewise the conspiracy buffs.  Remember that expert, that beautiful heavyset lesbian, who said "fire has never melted steel"?  I guess she'd never been either to a steel foundry or the site of a major fire.

In other words, I use my Bullshit Detector.  Something most liberals don't have.

----------


## Dan40

> Question: if experts figure out things that YOU do not have the training & experience to know,
> then how is it, in a world of conflicting expert statements on any given subject, that you personally decide what ( or who ) to believe ?
> 
> My point here is that unless you have some sort of learning disability YOU personally have all the intellectual capacity to understand the physics & science that defines what is wrong with the media reporting of the false flag that was 9/11/2001.


I guess you are right, conspiracy theorists must just be completely stupid.

----------


## n0spam4me

> The supporting evidence; the cited science; the manner of presentation.
> 
> I'm not a scientist; but I know the Scientific Method.  For example, some clown wearing a badge that says CLIMATE SCIENTIST who is babbling about **COMPUTER MODELS** and **WE CAN'T WAIT TO ACT** is not practicing science.  He's ginning up hysteria and using his credentials to sway emotions.
> 
> Likewise the conspiracy buffs.  Remember that expert, that beautiful heavyset lesbian, who said "fire has never melted steel"?  I guess she'd never been either to a steel foundry or the site of a major fire.
> 
> In other words, I use my Bullshit Detector.  Something most liberals don't have.


In the case of the untimely demise of 3 steel framed skyscrapers,  the steel would have had to have been uniformly heated
in order to weaken uniformly and produce the "collapse" event as documented,  however, in addition the towers were seen
dropping at 64% of the acceleration of gravity and WTC7 had 2.25 sec of actual free fall acceleration.
these facts call into question any "expert" who claims that these were events that "just happened" rather than having been
the product of a carefully planned controlled demolition.

----------


## n0spam4me

> I guess you are right, conspiracy theorists must just be completely stupid.


so YOU do not understand what is wrong with the media reporting on 9/11/2001?

Please note: I am NOT a "liberal" and I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist"   I am first & foremost a citizen of the U.S.A.
and yes I have some unusual ideas, however, running with the herd has never been my idea of fun.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> In the case of the untimely demise of 3 steel framed skyscrapers,  the steel would have had to have been uniformly heated
> in order to weaken uniformly and produce the "collapse" event as documented,  however, in addition the towers were seen
> dropping at 64% of the acceleration of gravity and WTC7 had 2.25 sec of actual free fall acceleration.
> these facts call into question any "expert" who claims that these were events that "just happened" rather than having been
> the product of a carefully planned controlled demolition.


I can explain it to any reader of average intelligence.

Which means I canNOT explain it to YOU.

I'm done.  You're not here to discuss; just to shill your kook ideas.

You can lead a horse to water...but if he still prefers the Kool-Aid of liberalism and conspiracy theories....

----------


## Dan40

> Please note: I am NOT a "liberal" and I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist"    .


Your posts say you ARE.

----------


## n0spam4me

> Your posts say you ARE.


What sort of box do you attempt to put me in? and please explain in detail what part of my posts leads to believe that I'm a "liberal"?

----------


## n0spam4me

to quote from a post here "Conspiracy kooks "
now I do not even attempt to categorize & define anyone here, this is not personal, this is about the events of 9/11/2001 
and the obviously biased and misleading reporting by the media.

Question: can people address the issues without insulting one-another?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Over 500 post and this is still going strong?????  Shun this asshole, don't answer his post.  He is a total and complete moron.

----------

Kris P Bacon (02-17-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> to quote from a post here "Conspiracy kooks "
> now I do not even attempt to categorize & define anyone here, this is not personal, this is about the events of 9/11/2001 
> and the obviously biased and misleading reporting by the media.
> 
> *Question: can people address the issues without insulting one-another? *


*
*
I don't know, can you? We have members that witnessed it and are missing loved ones. Would you find that insulting?

----------


## JustPassinThru

Kook conspiracy narratives are not ideas.

They're fabricated stories.  Designed to impress those even more gullible, that the conspiracy kook has a line on some sort of super-duper secret information.

I don't discuss kook ideas.  I call them kook ideas, and then disregard the kook pushing them.

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> Over 500 post and this is still going strong?????  Shun this asshole, don't answer his post.  He is a total and complete moron.


I am inclined to agree, but it requires most of the forum to get on board.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> What sort of box do you attempt to put me in? and please explain in detail what part of my posts leads to believe that I'm a "liberal"?



I don't think you are a liberal.  I just think you are mentally disturbed.  Maybe most liberals are mentally disturbed so you may be a liberal after all.  But you are most assuredly mentally unhinged.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> I don't think you are a liberal.  I just think you are mentally disturbed.  Maybe most liberals are mentally disturbed so you may be a liberal after all.  But you are most assuredly mentally unhinged.


The conspiracy kooks were fed their silly narrative, and gained traction, when the Dumbo Crud Party tried to USE that to somehow discredit Bush.  Not that they could make any sort of factual ties...but that's not how Leftists' brains work.  Just making the association, is enough.  Dogs' brains work that way; and monkeys' brains; and apparently, liberals'.

----------


## n0spam4me

> The conspiracy kooks were fed their silly narrative, and gained traction, when the Dumbo Crud Party tried to USE that to somehow discredit Bush.  Not that they could make any sort of factual ties...but that's not how Leftists' brains work.  Just making the association, is enough.  Dogs' brains work that way; and monkeys' brains; and apparently, liberals'.


at no time have I attempted to "discredit Bush"  My arguments are about the physical actions of things, such as skyscrapers & airplanes.
This is NOT a "conspiracy theory" because I do not want to discuss what anybody may or may not have been plotting & conspiring about.
this is about the actions of physical materials and why the media reports about what happened can not possibly be correct.

WHY all this tangential business with politics ( etc ... ) when that is very much not necessary.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> In the case of the untimely demise of 3 steel framed skyscrapers,  the steel would have had to have been uniformly heated
> in order to weaken uniformly and produce the "collapse" event as documented,  however, in addition the towers were seen
> dropping at 64% of the acceleration of gravity and WTC7 had 2.25 sec of actual free fall acceleration.
> these facts call into question any "expert" who claims that these were events that "just happened" rather than having been
> the product of a carefully planned controlled demolition.


Now you are beginning to make an inkling of sense, but no productive conversation can be had with you until you acknowledge the fact that the towers were hit by commercial airliners.

When you join the rest of us in the real world and acknowledge that occurred, you are prepared to explore the possibility of explosives inside the building and a controlled demolition.

Airplanes and controlled demolition are not mutually exclusive.

----------


## n0spam4me

"no productive conversation can be had with you until you acknowledge the fact that the towers were hit by commercial airliners."
Why is this such a sacred cow?  Would it be such a sin if people were actually lied to, and the vehicle in question was not an airliner at all
but a modified military aircraft designed to function as a missile?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> Why is this such a sacred cow?


It is the truth. The people who saw the airliners are not blind.

----------


## n0spam4me

> It is the truth. The people who saw the airliners are not blind.


From at a minimum 1200 ft distant, an untrained civilian could eyeball an aircraft and instantly tell that it was an airliner full of people
rather than a fake designed to penetrate a wall like a missile? Really?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> From at a minimum 1200 ft distant, an untrained civilian could eyeball an aircraft and instantly tell that it was an airliner full of people
> rather than a fake designed to penetrate a wall like a missile? Really?


Do you e_ver_ think for yourself or do you just believe whatever your conspiracy websites tell you?

----------

sooda (02-17-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

> In the case of the untimely demise of 3 steel framed skyscrapers,  the steel would have had to have been uniformly heated
> in order to weaken uniformly and produce the "collapse" event as documented,  however, in addition the towers were seen
> dropping at 64% of the acceleration of gravity and WTC7 had 2.25 sec of actual free fall acceleration.
> these facts call into question any "expert" who claims that these were events that "just happened" rather than having been
> the product of a carefully planned controlled demolition.


WTC 7 was nowhere close to being a skyscraper. The fact that you're calling it a skyscraper just seals the deal on your I.Q.

----------


## sooda

> In the case of the untimely demise of 3 steel framed skyscrapers,  the steel would have had to have been uniformly heated
> in order to weaken uniformly and produce the "collapse" event as documented,  however, in addition the towers were seen
> dropping at 64% of the acceleration of gravity and WTC7 had 2.25 sec of actual free fall acceleration.
> these facts call into question any "expert" who claims that these were events that "just happened" rather than having been
> the product of a carefully planned controlled demolition.


They weren't steel framed.. They were cantilevered off a central core and designed to sway 5 feet in any direction.. Further, Aluminum burns.

----------


## sooda

> so YOU do not understand what is wrong with the media reporting on 9/11/2001?
> 
> Please note: I am NOT a "liberal" and I am NOT a "conspiracy theorist"   I am first & foremost a citizen of the U.S.A.
> and yes I have some unusual ideas, however, running with the herd has never been my idea of fun.


Conspiracy crackpots are a herd.. just like truthers.

----------


## n0spam4me

So bottom line here is that nobody wants to actually engage on the subject at hand here (?)
What do you have on the subject that is the physics of the alleged airliner crashes?

----------


## JustPassinThru

> So bottom line here is that nobody wants to actually engage on the subject at hand here (?)


That's right.

Rational people have no time for kook conspiracy assertions.

...Buh-BYE!

When you go out, be sure the door is latched tight.  Lots of trolls running about...

----------


## n0spam4me

> That's right.
> 
> Rational people have no time for kook conspiracy assertions.
> 
> ...Buh-BYE!
> 
> When you go out, be sure the door is latched tight.  Lots of trolls running about...


and people complain about "truthers" being closed minded, do you have any idea what you are advocating here?

----------


## JustPassinThru

> and people complain about "truthers" being closed minded, do you have any idea what you are advocating here?


I'm not advocating anything.

Why are YOU thumping this tub?  Let's say there was some fact to it.  What do you plan to DO about it?

Jump up and down?  Demand a Treason trial for Cheney?

WHAT.

We KNOW what YOUR Goddess did, before blowing her election...and we, rational people, can't even get the obvious evidence to get HER in a trial.

So, what's your aim?  Do you just want other half-wits to slap you on the back, tell you how really-really smart and keyed-in you are?

----------


## n0spam4me

> I'm not advocating anything.
> 
> Why are YOU thumping this tub?  Let's say there was some fact to it.  What do you plan to DO about it?
> 
> Jump up and down?  Demand a Treason trial for Cheney?
> 
> WHAT.
> 
> We KNOW what YOUR Goddess did, before blowing her election...and we, rational people, can't even get the obvious evidence to get HER in a trial.
> ...


"We KNOW what YOUR Goddess did"  REALLY, MY GODDESS?  More assumption and totally irrelevant one at that, if any given citizen believes that a virgin had a baby, what does this do ( if anything ) for this argument?

Will you either kindly address the issue at hand, or not bother posting ..... OK?

----------


## JustPassinThru

> "We KNOW what YOUR Goddess did"  REALLY, MY GODDESS?  More assumption and totally irrelevant one at that, if any given citizen believes that a virgin had a baby, what does this do ( if anything ) for this argument?
> 
> Will you either kindly address the issue at hand, or not bother posting ..... OK?


Okay...the Koch Brothers blew up the towers and stole those planes to pretend that's how it happened.

NOW WHAT.
_ WHAT IN THE NAME OF GOD'S GREAT HELL DO YOU WANT US TO DO ABOUT IT!!!_

----------


## n0spam4me

citizens are we not MAD AS HELL
.
.
.
yet?

----------


## n0spam4me

"the Koch Brothers blew up the towers"  are you guaranteed certain about that?
do you have evidence that would convict them in a court of law?

One thing at a time brother ..... one thing at a time .....

----------


## JustPassinThru

A conspiracy kook, calling for evidence of my hyperbole.

What are you, autistic?

So you're mad that somehow Bush, or Klinton, or the Koch Brothers, or Santa Claus and his elves, blew up the towers.
_ WHAT IN HOLY FUCK DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT IT._

----------


## n0spam4me

> A conspiracy kook, calling for evidence of my hyperbole.
> 
> What are you, autistic?
> 
> So you're mad that somehow Bush, or Klinton, or the Koch Brothers, or Santa Claus and his elves, blew up the towers.
> _ WHAT IN HOLY FUCK DO YOU WANT TO DO ABOUT IT._


The problem here is that we can KNOW that a crime has been committed, however we are not certain as to who did it.
Additionally, we do not have critical mass of AMERICANS on-board with the logic of this, so there is still much work to do.

----------


## JustPassinThru

So, you wanna jump up and down.

Or is it that you wanna bask in HOW FUCKING CLEVER you are, that you have that magic INSIDE INFORMATION.

Kee-rhist, you types make me tired.  It's the same when the morons are talking about sports.  Some extra-stupid loudmouth always KNOWS the SECRET PROBLEMS, of the pitcher or quarterback or star center.

You wanna see crime?  LOOK AT ALL THE ILLEGAL ALIENS AND THEIR WAKE OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.

Look at what goobermint healfkair has done.  In Europe and Canada and here.

Look at how Canada prosecutes SPEECH.

Remember Terri Schaivo?  THERE'S a crime.

Quit your brain-dead worrying about the World Trade Center.

----------


## n0spam4me

> So, you wanna jump up and down.
> 
> Or is it that you wanna bask in HOW FUCKING CLEVER you are, that you have that magic INSIDE INFORMATION.
> 
> Kee-rhist, you types make me tired.  It's the same when the morons are talking about sports.  Some extra-stupid loudmouth always KNOWS the SECRET PROBLEMS, of the pitcher or quarterback or star center.
> 
> You wanna see crime?  LOOK AT ALL THE ILLEGAL ALIENS AND THEIR WAKE OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION.
> 
> Look at what goobermint healfkair has done.  In Europe and Canada and here.
> ...


There are plenty of issues to go around and the bits you mentioned are most certainly valid
however, the issue of 9/11/2001 is also very much valid and its the one I choose to focus on.
you can have your issues and leave me to work on mine, if you do not want to discuss 9/11
WHY ARE YOU HERE?

----------


## JustPassinThru

I guess I got to spell it out for our autistic.

First, NO INFORMATION to contradict the understood events.

Second, there's ALREADY BEEN BLUE-RIBBON PANELS on this.

Third, if all of that is one-big corn-shpearshy, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.

Fourth, if you think this insanity is making you look real smart and plugged-in, you're wrong.  You're making an ass out of yourself.

----------

Kodiak (02-17-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

> I guess I got to spell it out for our autistic.
> 
> First, NO INFORMATION to contradict the understood events.
> 
> Second, there's ALREADY BEEN BLUE-RIBBON PANELS on this.
> 
> Third, if all of that is one-big corn-shpearshy, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.
> 
> Fourth, if you think this insanity is making you look real smart and plugged-in, you're wrong.  You're making an ass out of yourself.


Do you understand that these "blue ribbon panels" are staffed with humans and to err is human, so do you think that these people produce perfect results? what? they are fallible,  and it is up to WE THE PEOPLE to examine the evidence and set the record straight.
You say NO INFORMATION to contradict the understood events, REALLY, so you totally ignore the 64% of the acceleration of gravity for the collapse events of the towers and the 2.25 sec of free fall for WTC7 and additionally airliners penetrating walls "like a hot knife through butter"
whats up with that?

----------


## JustPassinThru

So.

For the FOURTH TIME.
_ What the FUCK do you want to DO about this._

You want some sort of award, for being smarter than everyone else?

----------


## n0spam4me

> So.
> 
> For the FOURTH TIME.
> _ What the FUCK do you want to DO about this._
> 
> You want some sort of award, for being smarter than everyone else?


Not my fault that you don't get the obvious.  This is NOT about me, this is about the fact that AMERICA has been screwed
lied to, and abused by our own "news" media & politicians.

Danger Will Robinson .... DANGER ... Dr. Smith is actually a Politician!

----------


## JustPassinThru



----------


## n0spam4me

> 


question 4 U: what are you doing here, if you do not accept as valid anything I say
and you don't believe anything is wrong with the official story of 9/11
WHY are you taking time with this?  Insulting me only proves to the random reader of this forum
that you have no valid argument on the topic of this thread and you are just here as a shit-disturber.

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

> question 4 U: what are you doing here, if you do not accept as valid anything I say
> and you don't believe anything is wrong with the official story of 9/11
> WHY are you taking time with this?  Insulting me only proves to the random reader of this forum
> that you have no valid argument on the topic of this thread and you are just here as a shit-disturber.


If he's the shit-disturber, whos the shit?
You seem disturbed by his posts.

----------


## JustPassinThru

He has no answers.  He won't come out and tell us what he thinks, nor support it.  Just vague hints of some sort of deep, dark plot - probably run by Zionists in a black synagogue cellar somewhere.

He has no course of action.  All he wants is to be acknowledged as one of the Enlightened Ones, who have the Inside Dirt.

Great.

He wins.

----------



----------


## n0spam4me

> He has no answers.  He won't come out and tell us what he thinks, nor support it.  Just vague hints of some sort of deep, dark plot - probably run by Zionists in a black synagogue cellar somewhere.
> 
> He has no course of action.  All he wants is to be acknowledged as one of the Enlightened Ones, who have the Inside Dirt.
> 
> Great.
> 
> He wins.


it is abundantly clear that the writer of the above has not read anything that I have written here.
sorry about that ....

----------


## JustPassinThru

So, sum it up.

How you get there; what SUPPORTING INFORMATION you have; and then...WHAT THE FUCK WE'RE TO DO ABOUT IT.

You failed at all those - which leads me to believe you're some sort of Aspergers short-bus rider.

----------


## n0spam4me

> So, sum it up.
> 
> How you get there; what SUPPORTING INFORMATION you have; and then...WHAT THE FUCK WE'RE TO DO ABOUT IT.
> 
> You failed at all those - which leads me to believe you're some sort of Aspergers short-bus rider.


I am not here to meet your standards, I'm here to present what I have, only ONE individual asked me a question
directly relating to something that I wrote here, and I gave a straight answer,  Now what do YOU have to say
that would lead me to believe that you have actually read anything that I've written?

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Who does the OP think was responsible for 9/11? Jews?

----------


## n0spam4me

> Who does the OP think was responsible for 9/11? Jews?


Obviously you haven't bothered to actually read anything that I have posted.
oh well ... your loss ....

----------


## n0spam4me

The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were not used as weapons on 9/11/2001
so anybody have any discussion of the logic & reason behind believing that fairy tale about angry Arabs?

----------


## Sled Dog

They weren't angry.


They were dying to give useless internet troll something stupid to say forever more

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),MrMike (02-18-2018),Rickity Plumber (02-18-2018)

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

> The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were not used as weapons on 9/11/2001
> so anybody have any discussion of the logic & reason behind believing that fairy tale about angry Arabs?


Present the evidence in documented linked articles and you may get discussion. 
Otherwise, you are just rehashing unverified opinion and fixated on 9/11 trolling.

A one trick pony.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),JustPassinThru (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018),MedicineBow (02-18-2018),Midguardian/J.C. Morgan (02-18-2018),MrMike (02-18-2018),Tennyson (02-18-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> They weren't angry.
> 
> 
> They were dying to give useless internet troll something stupid to say forever more


Evidently, this guy post about nothing else...dy5859e3df.jpg

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),frankmusic (02-18-2018),MrMike (02-18-2018),Tennyson (02-18-2018)

----------


## Crusader

Da plane boss, da plane!

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),frankmusic (02-18-2018),JMWinPR (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

can you actually look at the Evan Fairbanks video, and think 
"this is what is supposed to happen when an aircraft strikes a skyscraper wall"
 ..... REALLY?

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

New evidence suggest it was not a plane but two angry, arab, suicide bombers with explosive vests, on magic carpets that struck the towers.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),Crusader (02-18-2018),Daily Bread (02-18-2018),GreenEyedLady (02-18-2018),JMWinPR (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018),MedicineBow (02-18-2018)

----------


## Hillofbeans

:Retard:  :Retard:  :Moron:  :Moron:

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),Crusader (02-18-2018),JMWinPR (02-18-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

Very funny, but doesn't address the problem.  AMERICA is in deep do-do! 
when so many people are willing to accept total fraud .... 
.
Truly it is a sick sad world!

----------


## Daily Bread

> New evidence suggest it was not a plane but two angry, arab, suicide bombers with explosive vests, on magic carpets that struck the towers.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),Crusader (02-18-2018),frankmusic (02-18-2018)

----------


## JMWinPR

> The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were not used as weapons on 9/11/2001
> so anybody have any discussion of the logic & reason behind believing that fairy tale about angry Arabs?


I venture that whatever you put in your bong was discovered in turnips, as your posts are similar to those of a turnip.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018)

----------


## GreenEyedLady

mohammed rode a flying white donkey. maybe the arabs were smoking the same opium.

----------

JMWinPR (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018)

----------


## Retiredat50

> The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were not used as weapons on 9/11/2001
> so anybody have any discussion of the logic & reason behind believing that fairy tale about angry Arabs?


You seem to be really dialed into the truth. What do you think really happened at Sandy Hook?

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

> mohammed rode a flying white donkey. maybe the arabs were smoking the same opium.


If i smoked some opium, i would prolly fall like the towers and have to call 9/11.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),JMWinPR (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

> If i smoked some opium, i would prolly fall like the towers and have to call 9/11.


Damn it, every time I try to light a short, my moustache lights up and it stinks, that's how I "shave"

----------

JMWinPR (02-18-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

> The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were not used as weapons on 9/11/2001


The evidence is overwhelming that commercial airliners were used as weapons on 9/11/2001. Clearly you were either to young to be aware or not alive on that day. Which is it?

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

Not this sh*t again.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),Kris P Bacon (02-18-2018)

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

OP, did the Jews do 9/11? Tell is what you really think.

----------


## Midguardian/J.C. Morgan

If Muslims did not hijack those airplanes, why is this thread in the Terrorism subforum?

----------


## Sled Dog

> can you actually look at the Evan Fairbanks video, and think 
> "this is what is supposed to happen when an aircraft strikes a skyscraper wall"
>  ..... REALLY?



I thought Douglas Fairbanks was the actor?

Or was that Stephen?  Even?

----------


## Sled Dog

> Very funny, but doesn't address the problem.  AMERICA is in deep do-do! 
> when so many people are willing to accept total fraud .... 
> .
> Truly it is a sick sad world!


No.

Do-Do is a go-getter's motto.

Your typical troll can spell doo-doo correctly.

Why did you fail that basic test?

----------


## JMWinPR

> No.
> 
> Do-Do is a go-getter's motto.
> 
> Your typical troll can spell doo-doo correctly.
> 
> Why did you fail that basic test?


That is the way turnips spell doo-doo.

----------


## Conservative Libertarian

Folks, the next time this one trick pony troll posts, just ignore it and it will go away.

----------


## Big Dummy



----------


## n0spam4me

Go back to bed AMERICA, your government is in control
The TV would tell you if there was something important to know.

----------


## JustPassinThru

> Damn it, every time I try to light a short, my moustache lights up and it stinks, that's how I "shave"


You laugh.

And people say I damn marijuana because I have no experience.

Not true.  Back in my long-dead youth, I did smoke.

I had a full beard.  And yes, Richard-Pryor-style, I did set it on fire once, trying to re-light a roach.

NOT fun.

----------

Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018)

----------


## n0spam4me

To Quote "The Internet is changing, as our society is changing. Honesty and serious discussion are the first casualties. "

So are there any individuals who would like to change this? .... what?

----------


## MrMike

> can you actually look at the Evan Fairbanks video, and think 
> "this is what is supposed to happen when an aircraft strikes a skyscraper wall"
>  ..... REALLY?


Can you actually look in a mirror and convince yourself that this useless troll tripe you post even matters?

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Conservative Libertarian (02-18-2018),Hillofbeans (02-18-2018)

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## JustPassinThru

He's a mental patient.

Gotta be.  Even the web-kooks don't obsess like this.

And they at least put it together in some sort of course of action.

He doesn't even know what he wants to come, of us reading his drivel.

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## Kodiak

> He's a mental patient.
> 
> Gotta be.  Even the web-kooks don't obsess like this.
> 
> And they at least put it together in some sort of course of action.
> 
> He doesn't even know what he wants to come, of us reading his drivel.


Do a web search on his name, and he is quite obsessed with this going back at least 10 years on various forums.

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## JustPassinThru

Time for a ban, then.

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## NuYawka

@Trinity @Calypso Jones
(Just in case you weren't aware that one of your members is spamming the Forum with multiple threads about the same exact thing)...

The Case for No Planes
The Case for No Planes

After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY
After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY

Perhaps Missiles, not airplanes hit the Towers on 9/11
Perhaps Missiles, not airplanes hit the Towers on 9/11

Matter of curiosity for anyone who didn't sleep through high school science.
Matter of curiosity for anyone who didn't sleep through high school science.

Did angry Arabs hijack airliners on 9/11/2001?
Did angry Arabs hijack airliners on 9/11/2001?

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## NuYawka

@Trinity @Calypso Jones
(Just in case you weren't aware that one of your members is spamming the Forum with multiple threads about the same exact thing)...

The Case for No Planes
The Case for No Planes

After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY
After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY

Perhaps Missiles, not airplanes hit the Towers on 9/11
Perhaps Missiles, not airplanes hit the Towers on 9/11

Matter of curiosity for anyone who didn't sleep through high school science.
Matter of curiosity for anyone who didn't sleep through high school science.

Did angry Arabs hijack airliners on 9/11/2001?
Did angry Arabs hijack airliners on 9/11/2001?

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## Trinnity

*Closed for personal attacks There was no reason for this to be so ugly.*

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## Sled Dog

> Do a web search on his name, and he is quite obsessed with this going back at least 10 years on various forums.


Gots to have those checks from the DNC.

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## Sled Dog

> @Trinity @Calypso Jones
> (Just in case you weren't aware that one of your members is spamming the Forum with multiple threads about the same exact thing)...
> 
> The Case for No Planes
> The Case for No Planes
> 
> After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY
> After 15 years of delusional stupidity flights 11 and 175 were still absent from NY
> 
> ...



Is that some kind of whacko 3-D thing, the different colors?  Supposed to pop out and get attention?

I don't click on kook links.

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## NuYawka

> Is that some kind of whacko 3-D thing, the different colors?  Supposed to pop out and get attention?
> 
> I don't click on kook links.


What the hell are you talking about? This is how it looks on my end. Links are blue, like always, with everything else.

I don't do fancy shit.

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## Calypso Jones

> wow man, do I gotta spoon feed this group(?) :


.  Well dude it seems to me that in the interest of the discussion you want to have, that would be the least you could do.  It's just common courtesy.  Not spoon feeding.  Otherwise don't expect engagement.

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NuYawka (04-23-2019)

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