# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Gun Talk - Gotta gun?  Let's talk!

## Max Rockatansky

I haven't seen a thread that is just for those who want to chat about guns; brag, show off, ask questions, discussion .45 vs. 9mm, best hunting rounds or anything else you want talk about regarding personal firearms.  The only thing I ask is not to turn this into a gun control debate.  If you have a political agenda for or against guns, please start another thread.  This thread is only for chatting about firearms, ammunition, accessories and other topics a non-political hobbyist would discuss.

Thanks and I'm looking forward to many discussions and sharing of information.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Last year I went on my first hog hunt.  I'd been interested in using my bow, something I practice in my backyard, but ended up using my Ruger Mini-14 due to the distance involved (80 yards across a meadow).

A few years ago my dad gave me an SKS.  I was appreciative, but didn't do anything with it except clean it.  After reading an article in "American Hunter", I began to reconsider the usefulness of my little ol' SKS.  Thankfully, the price and availability of ammunition has come down to a relatively sane level and I bought some to sight it in.  

After my research on both the SKS and the 7.62X39mm round, I think it's going to be a great little brush gun and an equally great hog killer.

----------

michaelr (03-27-2014),TheTemporaryBG (09-04-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

FWIW, I saw a lot of accessories on the SKS such as different stocks, extended/extendable mags and such, but after carefully reviewing both online information and handling the rifle, I'm happy with the present configuration.  The 10 round mag should do me fine, but if anyone wants to buy me a good quality extended magazine, I'd be grateful!

----------


## webrockk

Plinking ~  Saiga AK47, 7.62X39...folding wire stock
Home/personal protection ~ 12 gauge Mossy 500, 18" barrel, pistol grip

Soon to replace (stolen) ~  Sig P220....  or, I might get a little .380 instead

----------


## President Peanut

Home defense (Primary): S&W M&P15T w/ACOG, tac light, forward grip with drop bi-pod. 
Home defense (Secondary): Remington 870 (two #4 buck, three slugs). 
Personal/Conceal carry (Primary): Springfield XDM .40 S&W.

Hunting--Deer (Primary): Remington 870.
Hunting--Deer (Secondary [questionable legality]): S&W M&P15T using Hornady rounds.
Hunting--Pest (Primary): S&W M&P15T 
Hunting--Deer (Secondary): .20 gauge (can't remember brand) single shot. 

Additional firepower: (2) Bushmaster Patrolmen (one with picanni rail system and scope), (1) Beretta 9mm, (1) .380, (1) .357, (2) .22LR (one with scope), (1) custom .45 memorial pistol (OEF X-XI 101st ABN DIV: RIP SPC Carlos Negron). 

Additional firearms not available to discuss.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Plinking ~  Saiga AK47, 7.62X39...folding wire stock
> Home/personal protection ~ 12 gauge Mossy 500, 18" barrel, pistol grip
> 
> Soon to replace (stolen) ~  Sig P220....  or, I might get a little .380 instead


I never owned an AK-47 but many seem to love it.  The 7.62X39MM round isn't a long range bullet, but seems to be on par with the 30-30 in power.  For my purposes out to about a 100 yards, it's perfect for hunting.  It'd probably still be good up to 200 yards, but is probably iffy at that point.

I have a Mossberg 500 myself.  It's my preferred home defense weapon backed up by my favorite handgun, the Browning Hi-Power.

Sorry to hear of your loss of your Sig.  A .380 (9mm short) is a good round up close, so a good consideration for personal carry, but for home defense I'd go for something larger.

----------

webrockk (09-03-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Why is it women prefer revolvers and men prefer semi-autos?

My ex, girlfriend and other women prefer revolvers.  I've never met a man who preferred a revolver over a semi-auto.  With men, it's usually an argument about caliber, not type of handgun.

----------


## Calypso Jones

you guys are crazy for posting that information.

----------

Captain Kirk! (01-20-2016)

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Why is it women prefer revolvers and men prefer semi-autos?
> 
> My ex, girlfriend and other women prefer revolvers.  I've never met a man who preferred a revolver over a semi-auto.  With men, it's usually an argument about caliber, not type of handgun.


we prefer revolvers because they are easier to load and reload.   And  it is difficult to cock the semi-automatic the first time to chamber the round.  AND it is hard to load the clip.

----------

Perianne (09-04-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

One of the many online articles I reviewed regarding my SKS.  Frankly, I didn't know shit about it before and it's set in my closet for over 7-8 years.  

I bought some cheap ammo for it to sight in the scope at 100 yards.  About the max I'd use it for.  I ordered a few hundred soft-point rounds for it from http://www.midwayusa.com/.  They had a better deal on the soft-points than http://www.cheaperthandirt.com where I bought 500 rounds of 5.56mm.

I live in a rural area and the land owner to the South of me allows the folks in the area to shoot at a particular spot about 200 yards from my house so I'm excited about shooting the SKS to see if it performs up to expectations.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...w-norinco-sks/

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> you guys are crazy for posting that information.


What information?  Our guns? 
Sweetie, what would be crazy is to post all of our guns, total ammo and locations of caches.  




> we prefer revolvers because they are easier to load and reload. And it is difficult to cock the semi-automatic the first time to chamber the round. AND it is hard to load the clip.


Female Secret Service agents, FBI and police officers don't have a problem with it.  While it is true many women lack the upper body strength of men, there is no reason they can't work out enough to work a slide.

----------


## Calypso Jones

okay.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Home defense (Primary): S&W M&P15T w/ACOG, tac light, forward grip with drop bi-pod. 
> Home defense (Secondary): Remington 870 (two #4 buck, three slugs). 
> Personal/Conceal carry (Primary): Springfield XDM .40 S&W.
> 
> Hunting--Deer (Primary): Remington 870.
> Hunting--Deer (Secondary [questionable legality]): S&W M&P15T using Hornady rounds.
> Hunting--Pest (Primary): S&W M&P15T 
> Hunting--Deer (Secondary): .20 gauge (can't remember brand) single shot. 
> 
> ...


Why do you prefer the S&W M&P15T over your Remington 870 for home defense?

In an up close situation such as a house, I'd prefer a shotgun, not something that would go through drywall and kill a friendly.

----------


## President Peanut

> you guys are crazy for posting that information.


Why? The government is already aware of my purchases, as they were made at one store. Most of the addtional firearms were handed down to me or bought as throw aways. I merely posted a small glimpse and nothing I consider security issues, unless you think posting the primary and secondary home defense weapons is a risk. I don't because I rotate weaponry and staging at set intervals.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> okay.


Sorry if I was too abrupt.  As posted earlier, my ex-wife and present girlfriend both prefer revolvers.  My advice about working out with weights (I bought weights for the ex, which went unused, and are still available for the GF, still unused) wasn't meant to be flippant nor condescending.  It works.  You don't need shoulders and biceps like Arnold Schwarzenegger to work the slide of a 9mm.

Revolvers are great.  I bought my ex a S&W 686 .357 and it's one of the many things she took with her.  The nice thing about a semi-auto is ease of reloading and compactability.  The nice thing about a revolver is no jamming.  Just keep pulling the trigger.  The problem with revolvers is the 6-shot limit.  If your primary weapon is a pump shotgun and the revolver is a backup, I think that's a good choice.  If the revolver is the primary and there is no backup, I'd reconsider my options.

----------


## President Peanut

> Why do you prefer the S&W M&P15T over your Remington 870 for home defense?
> 
> In an up close situation such as a house, I'd prefer a shotgun, not something that would go through drywall and kill a friendly.


Because you assume "home defense" to mean they are inside the home. I have a decent drive and security set-up. The S&W is made for distance first. And both are utilized in the current strategy. Frankly, I have used it more in defense while in an outdoor security situation than indoors. Finally, given the layout of my home, the chances of hitting a friendly are very low.

----------


## Calypso Jones

I carry a little pack for extra bullets...and keep some in the car.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-04-2013)

----------


## President Peanut

I like semi over revolver because of round capacity. I want to ensure if multiple targets present themselves, I am not limited to 5 or 7 rounds.

----------


## webrockk

> I never owned an AK-47 but many seem to love it.  The 7.62X39MM round isn't a long range bullet, but seems to be on par with the 30-30 in power.  For my purposes out to about a 100 yards, it's perfect for hunting.  It'd probably still be good up to 200 yards, but is probably iffy at that point.
> 
> I have a Mossberg 500 myself.  It's my preferred home defense weapon backed up by my favorite handgun, the Browning Hi-Power.
> 
> Sorry to hear of your loss of your Sig.  A .380 (9mm short) is a good round up close, so a good consideration for personal carry, but for home defense I'd go for something larger.


Ooooh...pictures!  Nice....like the camo on the Mossy!

Oh...I forgot to mention my Springfield 30/40 Krag...(don't have a photo, but it's identical to this one....was my grandfathers

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-03-2013)

----------


## texmaster

.22 rifle
Winchester Over and Under 12 guage
Very old Winchester side by side 12 guage
.357 Long Barrel
Air Rifle
Winchester 20g semi auto
Winchester Single 20g
.306 Rifle
.40 Beretta 
12g Semi Auto Benelli Black Eagle
Benelli Super Nova 12g
Springfield Subcompact .40
PS90



Ready for the brother in law visit

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-03-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Ooooh...pictures!  Nice....like the camo on the Mossy!
> 
> Oh...I forgot to mention my Springfield 30/40 Krag...(don't have a photo, but it's identical to this one....was my grandfathers


Great looking guns!  Thanks regarding the camo on the Mossberg.  Like my Ford Ranger pictured below, my main reason for buying the camo version was a combination of corrosion prevention and the lack of need to constantly wipe it down.  Punching the bore and wiping the interior of the receiver is good enough and those are closed most of the time.

My truck looks better when I don't wash it.

----------

webrockk (09-03-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Because you assume "home defense" to mean they are inside the home. I have a decent drive and security set-up. The S&W is made for distance first. And both are utilized in the current strategy. Frankly, I have used it more in defense while in an outdoor security situation than indoors. Finally, given the layout of my home, the chances of hitting a friendly are very low.



Outside the home makes more sense.  While my location is relatively secure for several reasons, there's always the risk of a midnight intruder or home invasion. A very _small_ risk, but one where a shotgun would be most useful.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I carry a little pack for extra bullets...and keep some in the car.


Loose bullets or are they in speed-loaders or Half-Moon clips?

The odds are that any situation where you need a gun would be resolved in a few shots.  No need to reload, but it's nice to have that feeling you can do it if needed, eh?

----------


## webrockk

The Springfield saw service in the Spanish American War.  It was my great grandfathers issue.  I wound up with it when my grandfather passed away in 1978.  I killed my first deer...a 6 point... with it at about 150 yards with open sights.....very accurate....and heavy.  I haven't fired it in 30 years....too expensive to plink with, and I quit hunting when I joined the Navy at 23.

Got a collector friend who pesters me about buying it....says there are some markings on the furniture that make it worth about $1500, but I would never sell it.

----------


## Roadmaster

> you guys are crazy for posting that information.


 I don't post what I have.

----------


## Perianne

> 


Doggie!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Doggie!


She's a great doggie, but all she hunts is her food bowl.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The Springfield saw service in the Spanish American War.  It was my great grandfathers issue.  I wound up with it when my grandfather passed away in 1978.  I killed my first deer...a 6 point... with it at about 150 yards with open sights.....very accurate....and heavy.  I haven't fired it in 30 years....too expensive to plink with, and I quit hunting when I joined the Navy at 23.
> 
> Got a collector friend who pesters me about buying it....says there are some markings on the furniture that make it worth about $1500, but I would never sell it.


In a time of financial strife, my brother sold a German Luger our uncle had given him.  It was in near mint condition and had been liberated from a dead Nazi officer.  When I found out I was pissed he hadn't asked me for the money.   He'd sold it to his best friend's father who really admired it.  

Even with the price of ammo coming down again, it does get expensive to shoot big bore firearms.  The cheapie ammo for my SKS is 38 cents a round (steel case), but the lower grade plinking 5.56mm ammo is 64 cents around (brass case).

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I don't post what I have.


Nothing wrong with that.  When Obama comes for my guns, I'd have sold them all the day before.   He can have my "cat training pistol" though:

----------

texmaster (09-04-2013)

----------


## usfan

I'm a firearms aficionado.. so have many.  I've talked about them online over the years, in dedicated gun forums, or ones like this.  I don't worry about it, since it's still america, for now.  In fact, i will boast about our freedom with many around the world.. i like the 2nd amendment, & think it is a good thing for a country.  Mexico wouldn't have the drug cartel problem if the citizens could be legally armed, imo.

The price of ammo has been very weird the last few years.. very overpriced.  Even powder & primers are scarce.  I reload, & can get rifle loads under .20 /round & pistol ~ .12.  I mostly got into reloading so i could afford to shoot!  Right now, ammo for the mosins are cheap.. ~.08/rnd.  They are cheap rifles, as well.  You can get one for ~ $100.  A 22 is still the cheapest to shoot, & they are fun, little recoil, & go in both rifle or pistol.  If someone held me at gunpoint, & said i could only take one firearm & head for the hills, i'd probably grab my ruger 22 & as many boxes of ammo i could carry.  But if i was smart, i'd take the 44 mag, shoot the guy holding me at gunpoint, then take all of them.   :Smiley Char092: 

I like revolvers.. i must be in touch with my feminine side.  :Drama:   If i carry, it is a ruger lcr.. 38spl revolver.. 14 oz, very small.  I tried to like a keltec pf9, but it was too unreliable.  Too many ftf, fte, and some other acronyms that are unfit for polite society.  But i shoot my revolvers more than the autos, for some reason.  I've got autos in 45, 22, & 9mm.  Revolvers in 357/38, 44mag, & 22.  I'm more accurate with a 38 revolver in 38spl than a 9mm glock.  The 15 round mag in the glock is pretty nice, though.

I've got an sks, too.. very cool firearm.  10 shot semi auto, goes bang every time.  Pretty accurate.  I keep it with iron sights.  The mosins, too.  I've got optics on the other rifles.. 308, ARs, 22s.

I mostly hunt with shotguns.. upland birds or waterfowl.  A camo'd semi auto is the one i use the most, but i shoot trap a cpl times a year with an O/U.  I have a pump shotgun in the closet in the bedroom for HD.. i'll take the ruger revolver if i get down to phx or any sketchy areas.  The rest are safe queens, except i take them to the range every so often.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-04-2013)

----------


## Perianne

> I like revolvers.. i must be in touch with my feminine side.


Dirty Harry used a revolver.

----------


## countryboy

> Last year I went on my first hog hunt.  I'd been interested in using my bow, something I practice in my backyard, but ended up using my Ruger Mini-14 due to the distance involved (80 yards across a meadow).
> 
> A few years ago my dad gave me an SKS.  I was appreciative, but didn't do anything with it except clean it.  After reading an article in "American Hunter", I began to reconsider the usefulness of my little ol' SKS.  Thankfully, the price and availability of ammunition has come down to a relatively sane level and I bought some to sight it in.  
> 
> After my research on both the SKS and the 7.62X39mm round, I think it's going to be a great little brush gun and an equally great hog killer.


I wouldn't turn it down if someone gave me an SKS, but I'd rather own the Ruger Mini 30.  :Wink:  
http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I wouldn't turn it down if someone gave me an SKS, but I'd rather own the Ruger Mini 30.  
> http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html


Me too.  I love my Mini-14.  The quality and features (namely detachable magazine) of the Ruger are superior to the SKS.   Still, the SKS is a few hundred dollars cheaper in general, holds 10 rounds, simple and reliable from what I've read on it.  I'm looking forward to shooting it tomorrow morning.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Dirty Harry used a revolver.


But it was a .44 Magnum.

_"I know what you're thinking, punk. You're thinking "did he fire six shots or only five?" Now to tell you the truth I forgot myself in all this excitement. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?"_

----------

Perianne (09-04-2013)

----------


## countryboy

> Me too.  I love my Mini-14.  The quality and features (namely detachable magazine) of the Ruger are superior to the SKS.   Still, the SKS is a few hundred dollars cheaper in general, holds 10 rounds, simple and reliable from what I've read on it.  I'm looking forward to shooting it tomorrow morning.


We expect a full report, pun intended.  :Big Grin:  

I've handled the SKS, never fired it though. Heavy.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> We expect a full report, pun intended.  
> 
> I've handled the SKS, never fired it though. Heavy.


Happy to do so!  I plan on sighting it in at 50 yards then backing up to 100 to see the difference.  I'm shooting on my neighbors property a few hundred yards from my house.  The longer range is more of a problem because of safety.  I can shoot down a bit at 50 yards, but 100 may not provide the backdrop needed for safety.  I'll figure out something.  

I'm expecting an order of ammo from MidwayUSA.com, but have 80 rounds on hand.  I probably won't shoot more than 12-15 to sight it in.

A little heavy for size, but that equates to solid in my book.  With the bayonet out, it's a nasty little weapon unloaded.

----------

countryboy (09-04-2013)

----------


## usfan

I've been wanting a mini-14 for a while, but they are too expensive.  I can get an ar cheaper.  A few months back, i got a wyndham weaponry carbon fiber ar15.. very light weight, very cool.  It is a flat top, but i put on some flip up iron sights, & a quick release scope.  This would be a much better shtf weapon than an sks or shotgun, or just about anything.  30 round mags, light & easy to carry, good firepower in the 223 round.  The main think i like about the mini 14 ranch rifle, is it looks like a tame 'ranch rifle', instead of a scary black rifle.  Lot's of people tacticool them up, though.  They're fine rifles, but the ar platform might be a little more accurate.

My sks is pretty spot on at 100 yds.. i can hit pie plate sized targets in decent groups with the stock sights.  I've gone further.. ~ 200 yds, & with the elevation sight, it's pretty good, too.  But iron sights at 200 yds are pretty useless, unless you're shooting at a house.  Bigger calibers are better for distance, anyway.  The 7.62x39 is more of an urban warfare, battle rifle round, rather than a sniper round.  I've got a tikka 308 bolt.. very nice & accurate.  I've been wanting to practice some long range shooting, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.. ~ 300 yds or more.

The sks is still a very capable battle rifle.. & with the bayonet, it would be effective in any battle situation from 100 yds to hand to hand combat.

The 44 mag is a bit obsolete.. but i still like it.  The bullets are HUGE!  You can carry 4 times as many 9mm as the 44 mags.  But i've got a lever gun in 44 mag, which makes a fun combo.  I can shoot either one with the same cartridge.  But if i was taking out a pistol round in any shtf setting, i'd probably rather have the 9mm glock & a carbine.  9s have decent ballistics, & are very small.  Neither 44 mag or 9mm is very good past 100yds, though.  A 223 is a bit better, but is too light in the wind.  The bigger 308 & up calibers are still the best for 200yds+.

I don't reload the mosin or sks rounds.. they are still pretty cheap to buy, either military surplus or eastern bloc sourced.

I have a small wish list.. maybe a taurus judge in 4" (so trin will talk to me), & a 45acp carbine.. but i probably should trade for them, or sell some i have.  Still, it's not a bad 'savings account' to have firearms & ammo.. they will hold their value in any crisis.  ..just like liquor, tobacco, or gold.

----------


## countryboy

Ruger makes a Mini-14 tactical model. Very scary looking.....if you're a lib.  :Big Grin: 

5846.jpg

I've got a nice ranch model with a multi colored laminated stock. Still pretty lib scary with the 30 round mag in it.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I've been wanting a mini-14 for a while, but they are too expensive.  I can get an ar cheaper.  A few months back, i got a wyndham weaponry carbon fiber ar15.. very light weight, very cool.  It is a flat top, but i put on some flip up iron sights, & a quick release scope.  This would be a much better shtf weapon than an sks or shotgun, or just about anything.  30 round mags, light & easy to carry, good firepower in the 223 round.  The main think i like about the mini 14 ranch rifle, is it looks like a tame 'ranch rifle', instead of a scary black rifle.  Lot's of people tacticool them up, though.  They're fine rifles, but the ar platform might be a little more accurate.
> 
> My sks is pretty spot on at 100 yds.. i can hit pie plate sized targets in decent groups with the stock sights.  I've gone further.. ~ 200 yds, & with the elevation sight, it's pretty good, too.  But iron sights at 200 yds are pretty useless, unless you're shooting at a house.  Bigger calibers are better for distance, anyway.  The 7.62x39 is more of an urban warfare, battle rifle round, rather than a sniper round.  I've got a tikka 308 bolt.. very nice & accurate.  I've been wanting to practice some long range shooting, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.. ~ 300 yds or more.........



I bought my mini-14  15-20 years ago.  After I left active duty, I was broke and had to sell a lot of my guns.  One was the greatest little shooter I ever had; a Daewoo AR100 with wire stock.  It looked like this:


It combined the best features of the M-16 and AK-47 plus used M-16 mags which were dirt cheap at the time ('87-'88 time frame)

It shot great, highly accurate and very reliable.  I hated getting rid of it plus several other guns.   Later, when my financial picture improved I bought the Mini-14 plus scope and extra mags for about $350 from another service member.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

It's been several months since I sighted in my Mini-14 and it was several years before that, so I looked up online to refresh myself on adjusting the scope.  I always forget the direction of adjustment (move the bullet impact up/down or the aim of the scope).  I'd initially planned on using 50 yards for a first range, but the link below recommended 25 yards which is what I'll do before take a few shots at 100.  I doubt I'll be shooting beyond that range except for life or death. Certainly not for hunting.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...&storeId=10151
_2) Fire your first shots at 25 yards. After sighting-in virtually every caliber and bullet weight commonly used in big-game hunting, Ridings has found that most modern calibers sighted-in to shoot 3/10 of an inch low at 25 yards are about 2.5 inches high at 100 yards.__Since most deer hunters sight-in a little high at 100 yards, the 25-yard rule of thumb is a good one to remember. Because of image size and ease of precision aiming at short distances, bullet placement is much easier at 25 yards than at 100 yards.

_This one I found amusing.  A hundred rounds?  They must be factoring in a novice shooter.  I shoot three shots, take a look (no spotter scope, so I have to walk up to the target), adjust and shoot another 3.    I used 9 rounds when _checking_ the sighting in my Mini-14.  It was off a bit, but not extremely so.  I was being extremely conservative since it was at the height of the post-Sandy Hook anti-gun talk and I only had one box of .223 to sight in and go hunting.  I fired nine sighting, shot four shots at the herd (one while they were walking and 3 running) and killed two.

With 80 7.62x39 rounds on hand and another 320 on the way, I can afford to have more fun with it.

http://www.wikihow.com/Sight-the-Sco...in-and-Zero-It
_start with at least a hundred rounds of ammunition_

----------


## Perianne

_This is a story of self-control and marksmanship by a brave,  cool-headed woman with a small pistol against a fierce predator.  What  is the smallest caliber that you would trust to protect yourself?

A Beretta Jetfire testimonial.
__ 
Here is her story: 

While out walking along the edge of a bayou just below Houma, Louisiana  with my soon to be ex-husband discussing property settlement and other  divorce issues, we were surprised by a huge 12-ft. alligator suddenly  emerging from the murky water and charging me with its large jaws wide  open.  She must have been protecting her nest because she was extremely  aggressive. 

If I had not had my little Beretta Jetfire .25 caliber pistol with me, I would not be here today!  

Just one shot to my estranged husband's knee cap was all it took. 

The gator got him easily and I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace. 

It's one of the best pistols in my collection!  Plus the amount I saved  in lawyer's fees was more than worth the purchase price of the gun. 				_ 
_
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/...ig-enough.html
_

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013),usfan (09-05-2013)

----------


## Calypso Jones

lol

----------


## texmaster

That's it?   Only @webrockk @Max Rockatansky and I have semi assault rifiles*?*  You guys are so screwed when the Zombies come.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> That's it?   Only @webrockk @Max Rockatansky and I have semi assault rifiles*?*  You guys are so screwed when the Zombies come.


Honestly, I don't think any vet should put his gun collection on a forum.

----------


## usfan

> That's it?   Only @webrockk @Max Rockatansky and I have semi assault rifiles*?*  You guys are so screwed when the Zombies come.


I have 2 ar15s & an sks.. those can easily be defined as 'assault rifles'.. at least as much as a mini14..

I'm not sure what an 'assault rifle' is, anyway, but the anti gun definition.  A semi auto rifle?  One that can hold more than 3 rounds?  10?  One that LOOKS scary?

Which is the baddest rifle, here?





Most anti gun liberals would wet their pants over the second one, but it is only a 22LR.  The first one is a 223.. a military round, & the last one uses a 7.62x39, the ak-47 round.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Honestly, I don't think any vet should put his gun collection on a forum.


Not all of it at least.   :Smiley Char092:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I have 2 ar15s & an sks.. those can easily be defined as 'assault rifles'.. at least as much as a mini14..
> 
> I'm not sure what an 'assault rifle' is, anyway, but the anti gun definition.  A semi auto rifle?  One that can hold more than 3 rounds?  10?  One that LOOKS scary?
> 
> Which is the baddest rifle, here?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Remember how the anti-gun crowd went batshit over this picture?  


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...oto_of_bo.html



> The weapon in the photo, posted by his dad on Facebook, resembles a military-style assault rifle but, his father says, *is actually just a .22-caliber copy*. And that, the family believes, is why child welfare case workers and police officers visited the home in Carneys Point last Friday and asked to see his guns.
> New Jersey's Department of Children and Families declined to comment specifically on the case but says it often follows up on tips. The family and an attorney say father Shawn Moore's Second Amendment rights to bear arms were threatened in a state that already has some of the nation's strictest gun laws and is considering strengthening them after December's schoolhouse massacre in Connecticut.

----------


## usfan

> Remember how the anti-gun crowd went batshit over this picture?  
> 
> 
> http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...oto_of_bo.html


What is worse is 'guns' like these:



This is an airsoft 'rifle'.  It is used in paintball games.  But the ignorance & bigotry of the anti gun crowd doesn't care about reality, only appearance.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013),Perianne (09-05-2013)

----------


## usfan

> Honestly, I don't think any vet should put his gun collection on a forum.





> Not all of it at least.


IMO, that is a personal choice.  For the time being, i am NOT afraid of overreaches by the govt.. storming our homes & taking our weapons.  It could happen in the future, but i don't see it on the horizon.  The other argument is for free americans to hold their heads high & proud over their freedoms.  The more people see honest, law abiding citizens speak honestly & rationally about firearms the better for future generations.  If we slink around, acting like we're breaking some law, giving almost implied assent to the overreaches, we've already lost the ideological battle.  That is one reason to NOT be afraid to talk about our firearms.  IF we really are free, & IF firearms are a constitutional right, why should we be embarrassed or feel guilty about keeping or bearing them?  This is just more of the liberal, anti gun propaganda, trying to paint gun owners as some kind of anti social outcast, lurking in the shadows, on the edge of sanity & legality.

Another positive for openness about our weapons is deterrence.  IF the powers that be think there is only a small minority of gun owners, they might feel emboldened to plot a seizure.  But, if there are millions of open, fearless gun owners, they know that such talk is treasonous & unconstitutional.

If it gets to the point of gun confiscation, my storage facility will change.  If 'they' come to take my weapons, i should either rebel openly, or go underground.  Circumstances will dictate my course of action.  I may hide my stash in various locations, or have them all in a central cache in a fortified place.  That again, depends on the shtf scenario.  I don't worry about it, for if it comes, i'll deal with it then.  I'm not going to waste a lot of energy & thought on this.  I'm a free american, now, & will die one.  Hopefully, it will be of natural causes in old age..   :Old:

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> IMO, that is a personal choice.  For the time being, i am NOT afraid of overreaches by the govt.. storming our homes & taking our weapons.  It could happen in the future, but i don't see it on the horizon....


Same here.  If it happened, it would be in steps.   Laws requiring registration followed by laws requiring every gun transaction to be registered even between private owners as the last gun bill proposed.  Without the legal means to track guns in place, "the gubment" wouldn't have the means to start rounding them up.   

I went shooting this morning.  My SKS performed great and ate up all the cheapie 7.62x39 ammo I had.  No jams, misfeeds or misfires.   I quickly sighted in the scope at 25 yards with 12 shots (groups of 3) and moved out to 100 yards when I discovered that the rail my scope was afixed was loose and required a wrench to secure.  I only had a screwdriver for adjusting the scope.  After a few more shots, I gave up.  I'll try again tomorrow.

----------


## Perianne

Attachment 1217

----------


## liberal_hack

For some reason, guys like big guns

biceps.jpg


yes, women seem to prefer a revolver. Here's one with a 44

big-cleavage.jpg

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013),usfan (09-05-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

44s have a value!

Both of my orders from cheaperthandirt and MidwayUSA came in today.  Just 15 boxes each of 5.56 FMJ and 7.62X39 hollow point plus 3 empty .50-sized ammo boxes ($10 each), but I'm happy to have the supply.   I don't shoot that much, but it should be ample for a couple of years.

The 5.56 is brass and reloadable, but I don't reload even though I've thought about it.  The 7.62 is WPA steel casings; non-reloadable.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/167...-berdan-primed

----------

usfan (09-05-2013)

----------


## Perianne

> 


That is the biggest bullet I have ever seen.  Geez.  What kind of gun fires that?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> That is the biggest bullet I have ever seen.  Geez.  What kind of gun fires that?



A good line for your date or something similar like "Wow!  That's the biggest gun I've ever seen!  What kind of ammo do you use with it?"  

I've never fired the 7.62x39 until today.  The SKS ate up the cheapie steel-cased TulAmmo with no problem but my online research showed some shooters had problems with their Mini-14s.  I'll try the WPAs depicted above tomorrow.  Those are the ones I plan to use for hunting.  

For ranges longer than 100 yards, a better quality ammo should be used, but for 100 yards and closer, plus the hollow point, I think they'll work great.

----------


## Perianne

> A good line for your date or something similar like "Wow!  That's the biggest gun I've ever seen!  What kind of ammo do you use with it?"


I always take advice from men about dates.  Thanks.  lol

----------

Calypso Jones (09-05-2013),Max Rockatansky (09-06-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I always take advice from men about dates.  Thanks.  lol


Men act tough, but they all have egos.  Use it to your advantage.

----------


## Perianne

> Men act tough, but they all have egos.  Use it to your advantage.


I don't plan to see his weapon.  But if I do, I hope it's not a single shot.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> I don't plan to see his weapon.  But if I do, I hope it's not a single shot.


 :Thinking:

----------


## Calypso Jones

you guys are killing me.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I don't plan to see his weapon.  But if I do, I hope it's not a single shot.


What??!  Are you the type that just goes to the gun store to look but never wants to try something out on the range?  I can guarantee you this guy is interested in some range time.  Personally, I don't go shooting or hunting with someone I first met.  I need to get to know them first but most guys are a bit anxious.  The three date rule applies.  Make him work for it if you are interested in some couples range time.  Make sure you have protective equipment.  That should be clear by date two.  You know, safety glasses and hearing protection.

Most guys are clueless when it comes to women, so basically you have to use a bullhorn to tell him you are ready to go to the range if he proposes a third date.  It may even help to draw him a picture.  This is so he'll have his equipment cleaned, prepped and ready for action.  If you just spring it on him, he may have already squeezed off a few rounds before the date to relieve tension.

----------

Perianne (09-05-2013)

----------


## Calypso Jones

um.......Peri.    Max may have a pointer..i mean POINT.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-05-2013),Perianne (09-05-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Day Two of sighting in my SKS with TulAmmo 7.62X39.  Later, in a second video I'll post, I shot 3 rounds of WAP hollow point.  That ammo was a lot better than the TulAmmo for consistency.  I used to be an expert shooter in both rifle and pistol for a couple of decades, but am now rusty.  Part of my problem with consistency was the TulAmmo- specifically the inconsistency of the ammunition.  Great for busting caps, but not recommended for sighting in a rifle.  I'll go again next week with the WAP to refine my skills and complete the sighting in of the weapon.

----------

countryboy (09-06-2013),usfan (09-06-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Shooting a water jug with FMJ and hollow point.  It didn't go as planned, but was still fun.

----------

countryboy (09-06-2013),texmaster (09-06-2013)

----------


## usfan

Ironically, i was watching the news tonight, & they were showing a clip of syrian rebels fighting.. one of them was shooting an sks.. just like rocky's.  Here's a pic of some of them with old mosins!  Obviously these still work as battle rifles..



Most of them still use ak-47's but these older russian beauties still do the job.

----------


## usfan

another mosin..


I guess they issue the older ones to the kids... sks w/bayonet..

----------


## Max Rockatansky

The Soviets put a lot of weapons out in the world and the Russians still do as in Syria. 
 I don't want this thread to turn political.  Guns exist.  Do you have a favorite?

----------


## usfan

> The Soviets put a lot of weapons out in the world and the Russians still do as in Syria. 
>  I don't want this thread to turn political.  Guns exist.  Do you have a favorite?


No political commentary was posted.  I merely observed the venerable old sks still in use as a battle rifle.  BTW, it is one of my faves.  I like the mosins, too.  I like the ak-47s, but those should really be fully automatic, as that is where they excel, whereas the sks is a semi.

I have a 1929 russian mosin long rifle, a 50's chinese mosin carbine, & a 50's chinese sks.  All are amazingly accurate, & still (obviously) functional as battle rifles.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Thanks.  I was unfamiliar with the Mosin and had to look it up.  Seems like a great rifle:  http://www.mosinnagant.net/overview/default.asp

Are all in the 7.62x54R cartridge?

----------


## usfan

> Thanks.  I was unfamiliar with the Mosin and had to look it up.  Seems like a great rifle:  http://www.mosinnagant.net/overview/default.asp
> 
> Are all in the 7.62x54R cartridge?


that cartridge is similar in ballistics to the 30-06.. it kicks like a mule, & has better long range capability than the 223.  Anyone who would like to have a capable 'battle rifle' around would do well to look at the mosin nagant.  You can get them in the $100 range, & a spam can (440 rounds) for about the same.  So for ~ $200 you can have a decent  hi powered rifle & lots of ammo.  These military surplus rounds are corrosive, though, so you should clean it thoroughly after every range session.

I just picked up 2 spam cans (880) the other day at sportsman's guide.. an online retailer.  It was ~ $180 shipped.  That's pretty cheap ammo.  i can't reload for that.  JGsales in prescott, az (also sells online) has the chinese mosin carbine.. the shorter barrel version, for $100.  I think bud's gun shop in Ky also sells them.  They all shoot the 54r cartridge, & they are available everywhere, anymore.  There is quite a cult following with the old mosins.. you can put aftermarket stocks on them, & tacticool them up, if you want.  Triggers, bolts, rails, scopes, & just about everything is available to update them.  But i kind of like the old wooden stocks, even if they are heavy.  A butt pad is recommended..i have a slip on limbsaver & it works fine.
Many of the old mosins were actually used in combat.. ww2 or vietnam or korea.. they have some historical value, as collectables.

----------

Max Rockatansky (09-07-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I went shooting again this morning and had a great time.  I've shot infrequently over the past decade and didn't realize how much I missed it until today.   

Still shooting my 7.62 X 39 SKS with a 4X20 Weaver scope but at both 50 yards and 100 yards.  In 3 round groups, I shot about 30 rounds with most of my time spent running back and forth from my truck to the target to check my sights. 

At the end of shooting, I had some fun with two water jugs:

_First shot at 2:13 followed by second at 2:19.  You can hear the click of the bolt going home at 1:49._

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> that cartridge is similar in ballistics to the 30-06.. it kicks like a mule, & has better long range capability than the 223.  Anyone who would like to have a capable 'battle rifle' around would do well to look at the mosin nagant.  You can get them in the $100 range, & a spam can (440 rounds) for about the same.  So for ~ $200 you can have a decent  hi powered rifle & lots of ammo.  These military surplus rounds are corrosive, though, so you should clean it thoroughly after every range session.
> 
> I just picked up 2 spam cans (880) the other day at sportsman's guide.. an online retailer.  It was ~ $180 shipped.  That's pretty cheap ammo.  i can't reload for that.  JGsales in prescott, az (also sells online) has the chinese mosin carbine.. the shorter barrel version, for $100.  I think bud's gun shop in Ky also sells them.  They all shoot the 54r cartridge, & they are available everywhere, anymore.  There is quite a cult following with the old mosins.. you can put aftermarket stocks on them, & tacticool them up, if you want.  Triggers, bolts, rails, scopes, & just about everything is available to update them.  But i kind of like the old wooden stocks, even if they are heavy.  A butt pad is recommended..i have a slip on limbsaver & it works fine.
> Many of the old mosins were actually used in combat.. ww2 or vietnam or korea.. they have some historical value, as collectables.


Cabella's is having a sale: Mosin Nagants for $129 "excellent condition".  I was leery of ordering one over the Internet, even at that price, but to be able to go into the store and pick one out was too good a deal to pass up.  My local Cabella's had a few dozen and I picked out a nice one.  

Now I'm pricing ammo and accessories.   Cheaperthandirt seems to have the best price: $89/440 Soviet rounds in a can.

----------


## Perianne

> Cabella's is having a sale: Mosin Nagants for $129 "excellent condition".  I was leery of ordering one over the Internet, even at that price, but to be able to go into the store and pick one out was too good a deal to pass up.  My local Cabella's had a few dozen and I picked out a nice one.  
> 
> Now I'm pricing ammo and accessories.   Cheaperthandirt seems to have the best price: $89/440 Soviet rounds in a can.


I have seen those in my local gun store.  I read somewhere that they kick like a mule.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I have seen those in my local gun store.  I read somewhere that they kick like a mule.


Well, and you can ask anyone to verify this, since I'm part jackass, it shouldn't be a problem.  

It's about the same size as a standard NATO cartridge.  @usfan would know for sure since he's fired it.

I ended up taking the scope off my SKS and replacing it with a standard receiver cover ($32).  Every time an SKS is cleaned, that cover has to be removed (or should be removed) and that necessitates resighting the rifle.  With the Mosin, I've read it makes a decent sniper rifle, so I might mount a 4X scope on it but I've also read a scope interferes with the bolt.

----------


## QuaseMarco

> you guys are crazy for posting that information.


Ditto!!!

----------


## Coolwalker

> Cabella's is having a sale: Mosin Nagants for $129 "excellent condition".  I was leery of ordering one over the Internet, even at that price, but to be able to go into the store and pick one out was too good a deal to pass up.  My local Cabella's had a few dozen and I picked out a nice one.  
> 
> Now I'm pricing ammo and accessories.   Cheaperthandirt seems to have the best price: $89/440 Soviet rounds in a can.


I love that weapon...it does kick like a mule however. That cosmoline is a pain in the ass until you get it all clean, but after proper sighting, that is one accurate piece. I wish I had a Cabella near me.

----------

Perianne (10-13-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Agreed about cosmoline being a PITA, but the Cabella's Mosins are clean of it.  Most appear to be as said, "excellent" shape.  A few have the bluing worn off in a couple spots.

----------


## usfan

> I love that weapon...it does kick like a mule however. That cosmoline is a pain in the ass until you get it all clean, but after proper sighting, that is one accurate piece. I wish I had a Cabella near me.


I agree.  If that is in true 'excellent condition', AND all cleaned up, that is a great price.  They were still ~ $100 a year or 2 ago, but they have been rising.  I haven't seen any, except the rougher chinese carbines, for less than that, in worse condition.  I might check out cabellas in phx, since i've got to go down there soon.  ..like i really need another mosin..   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

It is amazing what a recoil pad does to cut down the kick.  I've got a limbsaver & a pachmeyer decelerator, & they make the meanest, orneriest recoil easy to handle.  You just slip them on before use, & they work.  Especially with the old russian rifles, which have a very short length of pull.. the distance from the trigger to the butt.. adding the recoil pad gives it a bit more length & makes it easier to shoot.  I'll even slip one on a shotgun when shooting the 3.5" magnum waterfowl loads, which also have a horrific kick.

But unless you're getting it for fun or long distance, the sks or ak-47 has a much tamer load.  They are very mild for the ladies & even children can handle them.  They cost a little more, but are semi-automatic.  Actually, if someone was in the market for a good 'battle' rifle, the ar-15 is tough to beat.  The us military uses them, & there are good semi auto versions in the $800 range.  The ammo is readily available, very lightweight, & powerful enough to take deer.  ..plus, you can tacticool it up & scare liberals with it!   :Laughing7:

----------

Perianne (10-11-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Thanks for the comments.  As briefly discussed previously, I was looking for a good long range rifle.  From what I've read, a decent scope, even a 4X, would allow hitting 24"x24" targets out to 500-600 yards.

A 5.56mm round isn't a "battle rifle" round.  The 7.62 NATO and 7.62X54 are good battle rifle rounds.  Since I don't want to sink 2000 bucks into a rifle which is mainly for fun, this is a good alternative.

----------

Coolwalker (10-14-2013)

----------


## usfan

> Thanks for the comments.  As briefly discussed previously, I was looking for a good long range rifle.  From what I've read, a decent scope, even a 4X, would allow hitting 24"x24" targets out to 500-600 yards.
> A 5.56mm round isn't a "battle rifle" round.  The 7.62 NATO and 7.62X54 are good battle rifle rounds.  Since I don't want to sink 2000 bucks into a rifle which is mainly for fun, this is a good alternative.


Don't tell any soldiers carrying ar-15s into battle that they don't have a battle rifle.  It's not a sniper round, to be sure, but it is a valid war rifle for battle.  That was its purpose & design.  If i was trudging off to war to battle hordes of frothing progressives & obama's fema troops, i wouldn't batt an eye over the ar-15.  Even my PC semi-auto would work for me.  It is lightweight, has 30 rnd mags, you can carry a lot of them, & they are quick & easy to reload.  They don't have the knockdown power of a 308, but they have proven to be effective.

But for sure, a long range rifle the 223 is not.  You will have a decent sniper rifle in the mosin.. & there are a lot of ways that people attach scopes.. some bend the bolt, or you can buy new bolts already bent, if you want to keep the original unmodified.  Some mount them way forward, so there are many solutions.

I guess the definition of 'battle rifle' is a bit vague.. but any rifle used in modern warfare fits the bill, imo.  Even the venerable mosin nagant still shows up from time to time in battle, as seen in the pics earlier.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Don't tell any soldiers carrying ar-15s into battle that they don't have a battle rifle.


It's not a "battle rifle", it's an "assault rifle".   When I first joined the Marine Corps in 1975 we qualified with the M-14.  I shot expert and could easily hit a man-sized target at 500 yards.  I've also shot it at man-sized targets at 700 yards, all with iron-sights.    When I qualified with the M-16 in 1977, I had dropped only 4 points in shooting at the 200 and 300 yard ranges, but when we moved back to 500 yards, it was literally 50/50 on whether or not I'd hit black on paper.  

The M-16 is a high-capacity weapon designed to put out a lot of bullets at relatively short ranges.  It's not a good sniper nor "battle rifle".  Battle rifles are like the M-1 Garand, M-14, FN-FAL in 7.62 NATO and, of course, the Mosin Nagant.  I'd love to have any of those, but the Mosin allows me to fill the niche with minimal cost.  


http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16...2-m16a3-e.html



> The origins of the M16 rifle lay in the research, conducted soon after the Korean war by Operations Research Office (ORO), founded at Hopking University and sponsored by US Army. Among the reports, produced by the ORO, two are most significant in this respect, the so called Hall and Hitchmann reports. One report stressed the fact that most hits, achieved by soldiers in battle, were made at relatively short ranges (within 300 meters) and, mostly, at random. This significantly undermined the obsession for long-range aimed fire, promoted by the Army. Second report suggested, that the most effective way to increase the probability of hits in the battle is to fire multiple small caliber, high velocity projectiles with controlled dispersion instead of one, relatively heavy and large projectile as used in conventional rifles at the time. The latter concept initiated so called "Project SALVO", which was conducted between 1952 and 1957 to develop a proper concept of a new, small bore military rifle.

----------


## Karl

> It's not a "battle rifle", it's an "assault rifle".   When I first joined the Marine Corps in 1975 we qualified with the M-14.  I shot expert and could easily hit a man-sized target at 500 yards.  I've also shot it at man-sized targets at 700 yards, all with iron-sights.    When I qualified with the M-16 in 1977, I had dropped only 4 points in shooting at the 200 and 300 yard ranges, but when we moved back to 500 yards, it was literally 50/50 on whether or not I'd hit black on paper.  
> 
> The M-16 is a high-capacity weapon designed to put out a lot of bullets at relatively short ranges.  It's not a good sniper nor "battle rifle".  Battle rifles are like the M-1 Garand, M-14, FN-FAL in 7.62 NATO and, of course, the Mosin Nagant.  I'd love to have any of those, but the Mosin allows me to fill the niche with minimal cost.  
> 
> 
> http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16...2-m16a3-e.html


A Kalishnakov is far more durable and reliable than the M-16

The M-14 was an EXCELLENT Rifle

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> A Kalishnakov is far more durable and reliable than the M-16
> 
> The M-14 was an EXCELLENT Rifle


Agreed on both counts.

One of the best little shooters I've ever owned was a Daewoo AR100.  Extremely accurate (for a 5.56!), used standard M-16 magazines and combined the best features of both the M-16 and AK-47.  I loved that rifle and regret having to sell it after leaving the military.

----------


## Karl

> Agreed on both counts.
> 
> One of the best little shooters I've ever owned was a Daewoo AR100.  Extremely accurate (for a 5.56!), used standard M-16 magazines and combined the best features of both the M-16 and AK-47.  I loved that rifle and regret having to sell it after leaving the military.


I hear ya Financial Hardship caused me to sell most of my good stuff infact I'm down to just FOUR Guns now but enough to defend myself and hunt which I ain't been hunting in probably a decade

What can I say when ya NEED CASH guns are a quick way to raise it always PLENTY of buyers

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I hear ya Financial Hardship caused me to sell most of my good stuff infact I'm down to just FOUR Guns now but enough to defend myself and hunt which I ain't been hunting in probably a decade
> 
> What can I say when ya NEED CASH guns are a quick way to raise it always PLENTY of buyers


True, in fact, when people talk about socking away gold pieces for "the Big Collapse", I'd rather invest in guns because we know the price will never drop on them, if the world survives, they can be cashed in for a profit and if the world collapses into anarchy they're better at killing bad guys than gold pieces.

----------

usfan (10-12-2013)

----------


## usfan

> I guess the definition of 'battle rifle' is a bit vague.. but any rifle used in modern warfare fits the bill, imo.  Even the venerable mosin nagant still shows up from time to time in battle, as seen in the pics earlier.





> It's not a "battle rifle", it's an "assault rifle".


I think my definition is just a  bit broader than your, is all.  I was not attempting to categorize, but merely point out capability.  But if the definition _requires_ a large caliber rifle round, then the ak-47, sks, & ar-15 would not fit the description of 'battle rifle'.  My point was that they are used in battle, & are capable 'battle' rifles.  I was not trying to claim they were long range sniper rifles.  I have not heard any standard military definition of 'battle rifle,' so, imo, it is a _flexible term_, depending on context.

I stand by my claim that an ak, sks, or ar would be fine shtf rifles, or for HD. ..they even work for hunting.  They are not 50bmg, or 22 shorts.  But they fit a broad niche, & are capable weapons.  I would take my ar into 'battle' over the mosin.  And if i was doing some sniper work, i'd use the mosin.. actually, i have a bolt 308 with a nice scope that would work better, but if i was choosing either/or the mosin/ar, for long distance sniper shooting, the mosin would be better.

----------


## usfan

> I hear ya Financial Hardship caused me to sell most of my good stuff infact I'm down to just FOUR Guns now but enough to defend myself and hunt which I ain't been hunting in probably a decade
> 
> What can I say when ya NEED CASH guns are a quick way to raise it always PLENTY of buyers


I've sold or traded a few guns over the years, & have always regretted it.  It's better to sell the kids, or run from the tax man than sell your old guns..   :Laughing7:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-12-2013)

----------


## Perianne

> I stand by my claim that an ak, sks, or ar would be fine shtf rifles, or for HD. ..they even work for hunting.  They are not 50bmg, or 22 shorts.  But they fit a broad niche, & are capable weapons.  I would take my ar into 'battle' over the mosin.  And if i was doing some sniper work, i'd use the mosin.. actually, i have a bolt 308 with a nice scope that would work better, but if i was choosing either/or the mosin/ar, for long distance sniper shooting, the mosin would be better.


I wish I knew as much about guns as you guys.  I have read the mosin is not accurate.  I still would like a long-range gun, just because.  But I don't want to spend a whole lot of money.  So, are the cheap mosins good guns for deer and sniping and for general SHTF, especially when you consider the cost factor?

----------


## usfan

> I wish I knew as much about guns as you guys.  I have read the mosin is not accurate.  I still would like a long-range gun, just because.  But I don't want to spend a whole lot of money.  So, are the cheap mosins good guns for deer and sniping and for general SHTF, especially when you consider the cost factor?


IMO, yes.. absolutely.

----------

Perianne (10-12-2013)

----------


## Perianne

> IMO, yes.. absolutely.


Will it hurt me to shoot it?

----------


## usfan

> Will it hurt me to shoot it?


Yes on that, too.   :Frown: 

It might work with a recoil pad.. but you might be happier with a 243 or even a 7.62x39 rifle.  They aren't as long distance shooters, but you have to be able to shoot it, first.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I think my definition is just a  bit broader than your, is all.  I was not attempting to categorize, but merely point out capability.


I go by the standard military definitions similar to here: http://firearmspedia.com/what-is-a-battle-rifle/

It is a category just as battleships, cruisers and destroyers all different classes (categories) of warships.  While there should no doubt all are warships, let's not confuse a battleship with a destroyer in terms of power, function or warfare capabilities.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Yes on that, too.





> It might work with a recoil pad.. but you might be happier with a 243 or even a 7.62x39 rifle. They aren't as long distance shooters, but you have to be able to shoot it, first.




Although I'd considered the Mosin before the sale, I'd been looking at other bolt-actions such as the Remington 700 and the Winchester model 70 in various calibers, especially the larger ones.  As it is, I think I got the best bang for the buck, but if anyone wants to give me a Remington or Winchester, I'll be eternally grateful.

----------


## Rudy2D

> _First shot at 2:13 followed by second at 2:19.  You can hear the click of the bolt going home at 1:49._


Wow.  You're a regular _Nimrod_.

----------


## Dan40

Is everyone aware that both Houses of the CA. legislature passed a bill banning semi-automatic, Assault LOOKING weapons?

And Gov. Moonbeam rejected it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Network

Discard them for the Sandy Hookers.

----------


## Calypso Jones

Don't get so excited about that @Dan40.  He signed the bill banning bullets.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Don't get so excited about that @Dan40.  He signed the bill banning bullets.


He's obviously taking Chris Rock's advice on gun control.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Wow.  You're a regular _Nimrod_.


My brother is a mightier hunter than I am, especially with a bow, but I would like to see how good he is with a rifle.  I have experience on him, but he still has his eyesight.  It might end up as a _push_.

----------


## Dan40

> Don't get so excited about that @Dan40.  He signed the bill banning bullets.


LEAD bullets.  Not bullets per se.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I was looking at various websites for accessories and ammo for my Mosin and ran across this for Lady shooters:  http://www.amazon.com/Past-360000-Wo...386RQHTGTPP6XA


 @Perianne, something to consider for your Christmas or Birthday wishlist.

----------

Perianne (10-15-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Well I blew a bunch of money on my 1942 Mosin Nagant Izhevsk, Russia.  It's very clean with just a bit of cosmoline on the metal sling fittings.  A bit of wear on the wooden stock, but overall excellent shape.

Besides buying a couple of spam cans of ammo, I also bought a bayonet, a recoil pad and a sling.  Since the shipping for ammo from cheaperthandirt was mostly for the first case, aside for the additional cost of subsequent bulk ammo, the shipping went up only a few dollars at a time, so I bumped up my stock in both 7.62X54R and .45ACP.   
I shouldn't need ammo for a couple years.  


This isn't my rifle, but it's the same make and model.   Mine isn't this pretty and, as mentioned above, won't have the dog collar sling on it.

----------

Perianne (10-16-2013),usfan (10-16-2013)

----------


## Perianne

> Well I blew a bunch of money on my 1942 Mosin Nagant Izhevsk, Russia.  It's very clean with just a bit of cosmoline on the metal sling fittings.  A bit of wear on the wooden stock, but overall excellent shape.
> 
> Besides buying a couple of spam cans of ammo, I also bought a bayonet, a recoil pad and a sling.  Since the shipping for ammo from cheaperthandirt was mostly for the first case, aside for the additional cost of subsequent bulk ammo, the shipping went up only a few dollars at a time, so I bumped up my stock in both 7.62X54R and .45ACP.   
> I shouldn't need ammo for a couple years.  
> 
> 
> This isn't my rifle, but it's the same make and model.   Mine isn't this pretty and, as mentioned above, won't have the dog collar sling on it.


I want one of those guns.  I don't know why though.  I was planning to go to the shooting range today, but my gun case did not arrive.  At the shooting range they have those Mosins for sale.  I was thinking of getting one for the heck of it.

----------


## usfan

I was down in phx for a couple of days, & stopped into cabelas to check the rumor of a nice mosin for $130..  well, they had a few, but they were $170, & no better than many 'good' ones i've seen for less.  It might just be the selection is low.. phx is a wild west gun town, & there have been shortages for years.

On the positive side, they did have primers in stock, & i got some small rifle & pistol, since i was out.  They are pricey, but no hazmat fee.

My mosin is a hex barrel 1929 model.. but i also have a chinese carbine model (shorter barrel), that i've been thinking of getting the ati stock & modernizing.  Amazon has them for ~$60.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I want one of those guns.  I don't know why though.  I was planning to go to the shooting range today, but my gun case did not arrive.  At the shooting range they have those Mosins for sale.  I was thinking of getting one for the heck of it.


Try shooting one first to see if you'd like it.  It's definitely a long range weapon which is why the bolt action isn't a major factor.  Still, it's cheap and a good addition to any person's assortment of fire arms.

Close range self-defense:  Sidearm (I prefer a Browning Hi-Power 9MM) and shotgun (my preference is 12 gauge pump)

Medium range (assault rifle):   Any of the multiplex of 5.56mm or 7.62X39 rifles available in semi-auto, magazine fed.  Best bang for the buck is an SKS.  It can be converted to magazine-fed, but I don't know how well that works (as in doesn't jam.  A common problem with cheap weapons, cheap magazines and cheap conversions. Better to spend money on something in which you can bet your life on.)  The SKS and Mini-14 do it for me.  

Long range (battle rifle):  I'd love to have an FN-FAL in 7.62 NATO followed by an M-14.  Unfortunately, I can't justify the cost.  Not enough bang for the buck, but if anyone is rich here and wants to supply a veteran with his dream rifle, I'm available.  :Big Grin:   As is, I'm excited about my Mosin even though I haven't shot it yet.  All the reviews and testimony I've read say I won't be disappointed.

For that really extra reach, there are .50 sniper rifles available, but the cost is high for both the weapon and the ammo.  Something like $4 a shot!

----------


## Perianne

> Try shooting one first to see if you'd like it.  It's definitely a long range weapon which is why the bolt action isn't a major factor.  Still, it's cheap and a good addition to any person's assortment of fire arms.


How can I shoot one?  I don't know anyone who has one.  But like you said, it is cheap.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> How can I shoot one?  I don't know anyone who has one.  But like you said, it is cheap.


You're an attractive woman on the rifle range (and off).  I seriously doubt any man would turn you down if you asked to shoot their rifle.

You are correct, it's cheap.  If you didn't like it, I doubt you'd lose any money reselling it.  Still, if you bought one (say $150) plus a tin of ammo from cheaperthan dirt ($89 plus $24 S&H) you'd have half the price of a handgun in a long range rifle.  A recoil pad would fix a lot of the problems.  I ordered mine from Amazon for $10 (I have Amazon Prime - mostly for the free video streaming but the free two-day business shipping really comes in handy):
http://www.amazon.com/Sports-Nagant-...ant+recoil+pad




One thing about rifles that kick; it sucks when on the rifle range after shooting a few dozen rounds, but IRL, if needed, you'd only be shooting a couple times then moving to a safe location.

----------


## Perianne

> You're an attractive woman on the rifle range (and off).  I seriously doubt any man would turn you down if you asked to shoot their rifle.


But I don't know anyone to ask.  Will the gun store let me shoot theirs?  They are not new guns and it wouldn't hurt the value of them, would it?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> But I don't know anyone to ask.  Will the gun store let me shoot theirs?  They are not new guns and it wouldn't hurt the value of them, would it?


Some ranges do have guns for rent.  Let your fingers do the walking and ask them.  OTOH, what I was talking about was going down on a Saturday morning about 8-10 and shoot some of your guns (at least those that you feel like cleaning afterwards!).  You'll see several men shooting too.  

If you see one or two who are firing a weapon you are interested, take the time to ask them about it.  The usual questions; "How do you like it?", "Is it accurate? Reliable? What does it cost to shoot?", yada-yada-yada.   You know how women (and some men) love to talk about their kids?  Men are the same way about cars, boats and guns.  They'll bend your ear off about them with very little provocation. 

It's not far from there to ask if you can shoot it a couple of times.  Offering to pay for the ammo helps, but I think your offer would be both appreciated and declined.   Figure most ammo is about 25 cents a shot, so offering $5 to shoot 5 rounds is very reasonable.  Again, I think you'd find most men wouldn't take your money.....unless their wife was with them.  :Big Grin: 

Still, if their wife was with them, that's a good conversation starter too.  Ask the wife what she likes to shoot and why.  Explain your reasons.  I'm sure you'll be happy with the results.

----------

Perianne (10-16-2013),usfan (10-16-2013)

----------


## usfan

Well, i've resisted as long as i could.. & i'm desperate for trin's approval, so i broke down & bought a judge today.. it will come to  my ffl in a week or so.  It's shipping from ky.  Here it is:



I'll probably just shoot 410s in it, mostly, but am picking up some 45LC for it, too.  I had been looking at the S&W governor, too, but it is a lot more.  This was a refurb, & considerably less.  So i'll have another pistol to take to the range & waste bullets with.   :Headbang:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-18-2013)

----------


## Sureitis

> we prefer revolvers because they are easier to load and reload.   And  it is difficult to cock the semi-automatic the first time to chamber the round.  AND it is hard to load the clip.


I've found that women prefer revolvers because they can load them and forget them.  You're not going to want a semi automatic rolling around in the bottom of your purse without a magazine change for 6 months.

As for ease of loading, that's not even an issue anymore due to cool little tools like the UpLULA, which they even sell in pink for those inclined:

http://www.maglula.com/PistolMagLoad...45ACPmags.aspx

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Nice gadget, but I'm fine with hand loading my magazines.  I do, however, only keep my magazines half loaded to save the spring.  Unless I'm going shooting, of course. 

Keeping semi-auto clean in a purse simply takes one of those purses with the pouch made for carrying a gun.

----------


## Sureitis

> Nice gadget, but I'm fine with hand loading my magazines.  I do, however, only keep my magazines half loaded to save the spring.  Unless I'm going shooting, of course. 
> 
> Keeping semi-auto clean in a purse simply takes one of those purses with the pouch made for carrying a gun.


I don't keep magazines loaded any more than a week at a time.  Sunday nights are my magazine swap for my carry gun.  Keeping a magazine even half loaded over long periods of time still puts tension on the spring which reduces the life of the spring and increases the chance of magazine malfunctions.

As for guns in purses, good concealment purses are expensive and they generally don't keep up with the current styles so fashion mavens aren't likely to invest in them.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I don't keep magazines loaded any more than a week at a time.  Sunday nights are my magazine swap for my carry gun.  Keeping a magazine even half loaded over long periods of time still puts tension on the spring which reduces the life of the spring and increases the chance of magazine malfunctions.
> 
> As for guns in purses, good concealment purses are expensive and they generally don't keep up with the current styles so fashion mavens aren't likely to invest in them.


FWIW, I haven't had any problem with my magazines. 

As for purse, then they should invest in holsters, but a revolver is nice too......if they can find it amongst all the other shit at the bottom of a woman's purse.  :Smile:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Some of my recent purchases were waiting for me when I got home.  Nice little stack too.

This is a picture of one of them:

----------


## Archer

Should I load up some 300gr LFP this year and look for a bear or stick to the 260gr 3/4 JHP?

----------


## usfan

> Some of my recent purchases were waiting for me when I got home.  Nice little stack too.
> 
> This is a picture of one of them:


Very pretty..  see?  Women aren't the only ones who like shiny golden things..   :Big Grin: 

I actually reloaded about 500 rounds of 45acp last week..   They are like  money in the bank!

Another 'toy' i have coming is a 45 carbine adapter.  It is an upper than replaces the barrel & slide from a 1911.  It has a 16" bbl, but operates like a 1911.  I've been wanting a 45 carbine, & almost got the hipoint.. i've got it in 9mm & it is great.  But i've been watching this Mech Tech gadget, & reading a lot of reviews, & decided to pull the trigger..   :Laughing7:   They are almost the same price as the hipoint carbine, though.. so i wonder about the wisdom of it.  I do have 2 1911s, so one can stay a pistol & the other can change back & forth.  They have them for the glock platform, too, & if i like this a lot, i might swap the hipoint 9mm for one of these in glock.

One nice thing is they use the same magazines as the pistol.  Here's what the final will look like. I've got some flip ups i plan to use, & probably a quad rail for the forend.



It's really only for ~ 100yds or so.. but with plenty of power in the 45 slug.  I'm looking forward to getting it.  It will allow some customizability.. but i'm not into a lot of tacticool gadgets.  Just some decent open sights & maybe a folding or telescoping stock.

I have an ar telescoping stock that might make it like this:


But i could get a red dot scope.. those with little magnification, but sight with a dot rather than open sights..


It will be fun shooter, i'm sure.  45acp is everywhere, & i have lots of brass & reloaded ammo, so it will be cheap to take to the range.  I've always liked combo pistol & rifle rounds.. i've got them in 9mm, & i have a lever carbine & pistol in 44 magnum.  This will be in between, ballistically, & i'm sure i didn't 'need' it.  But it was either buy this or sign up for obamacare, so it was a tough choice.. :Thinking:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-19-2013)

----------


## usfan

> Should I load up some 300gr LFP this year and look for a bear or stick to the 260gr 3/4 JHP?


you loading a 454 casull or rowland?   :Big Grin: 

I was thinking of getting one of those hand cannons, but decided to try out the judge.. plus i got it for less than half of what a decent 460mag would cost.  I'm still waiting for Trinnity's approval.. i thought she'd want to run off with me when she saw i got the judge..    :Love8: 

But ballistically speaking, i'd be better off with the 7.5" 44 mag than the judge.  But i'm looking forward to tinkering with some 3" 410 reloads.. not hard to do.  I'll probably stick with 00 buck, which puts out about 5 projectiles, each almost the size of a 9mm.  I really don't have a valid purpose for it.. it would make a good bedside HD gun, or a truck gun, but i've got a shotgun in my bedroom, & carry a 38 revolver in the car if going to risky areas.  It's a big, heavy gun, too.  ..not a ccw.  It weighs over 2#, while my 38 is 14oz.

----------


## Archer

> you loading a 454 casull or rowland?  
> 
> I was thinking of getting one of those hand cannons, but decided to try out the judge.. plus i got it for less than half of what a decent 460mag would cost.  I'm still waiting for Trinnity's approval.. i thought she'd want to run off with me when she saw i got the judge..   
> 
> But ballistically speaking, i'd be better off with the 7.5" 44 mag than the judge.  But i'm looking forward to tinkering with some 3" 410 reloads.. not hard to do.  I'll probably stick with 00 buck, which puts out about 5 projectiles, each almost the size of a 9mm.  I really don't have a valid purpose for it.. it would make a good bedside HD gun, or a truck gun, but i've got a shotgun in my bedroom, & carry a 38 revolver in the car if going to risky areas.  It's a big, heavy gun, too.  ..not a ccw.  It weighs over 2#, while my 38 is 14oz.


Super Redhawk 454 Casull

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Super Redhawk 454 Casull


The closest I've come to reloading is shooting blackpowder, both pistols and rifles, but it's of interest to me.  Shotgun shells would be my first venture if I got into it due to the versatility for hunting both small game and larger with slugs.

----------


## usfan

> Super Redhawk 454 Casull


Very nice.  I'd like one of those!  Especially now, with the judge, i'll need to add 45 colt to my reloading list.  A 454 shoots 45 long colt, as i'm sure you know.  It's like 357mag/38spl for those who wonder what we're talking about.  Is that it in your avatar?  I've got the redhawk in 44mag.. it's a great (and heavy) gun.

But i don't run into a lot of grizzlies here in az.. some rabid chipmunks & packs of vicious chihuahuas are about it..

----------


## Archer

> Very nice.  I'd like one of those!  Especially now, with the judge, i'll need to add 45 colt to my reloading list.  A 454 shoots 45 long colt, as i'm sure you know.  It's like 357mag/38spl for those who wonder what we're talking about.  Is that it in your avatar?  I've got the redhawk in 44mag.. it's a great (and heavy) gun.
> 
> But i don't run into a lot of grizzlies here in az.. some rabid chipmunks & packs of vicious chihuahuas are about it..


It is great for all medium game.

I trim my cases to 45LC when they show signs of crimp fatigue.

----------


## Rudy2D

You guys posting pics of your rifles--some of which are in violation of Federal Law--are just begging for the BATFE to come knocking on your door.

----------


## Archer

> You guys posting pics of your rifles--some of which are in violation of Federal Law--are just begging for the BATFE to come knocking on your door.


None of these weapons are in violation of the law.

Bans do not affect weapons that are already on the market and in homes. Also only full auto have restrictions. Some states may have laws against some weapons but the extent that they can go back in time and make you unbuy something is questionable.

No illegal weapons here.

----------


## usfan

> You guys posting pics of your rifles--some of which are in violation of Federal Law--are just begging for the BATFE to come knocking on your door.


posting pics of guns is a violation of federal law?  I haven't posted any actual pics of mine, just images from the web.  But i doubt that it is illegal to post pics of your own weapons.. sounds like you're being a little paranoid, rudy.. are you sure about that?

Or are you saying that some of the rifles are in violation?  I don't see that, either.  I can legally own a fully automatic weapon, & post pics of it if i wanted.  Obama's homeland security troops haven't started going door to door, yet.. & if enough of us post pics of our guns it might be a deterrent.  But whatever a person is comfortable with, i suppose..

----------


## Rudy2D

> None of these weapons are in violation of the law.
> 
> Bans do not affect weapons that are already on the market and in homes. Also only full auto have restrictions. Some states may have laws against some weapons but the extent that they can go back in time and make you unbuy something is questionable.
> 
> No illegal weapons here.


Barrel length must be at least 16"; overall length--26".

----------


## Archer

> Barrel length must be at least 16;" overall length--26."


And where do we have short barrel rifles at?

----------


## Rudy2D

> And where do we have short barrel rifles at?


Just be cautious; some of those pics looked short.

----------


## usfan

The mech tech ccu 'adapters' for either 1911s or glocks are for a legal pistol.  I don't know if they make it into a 'rifle' or if it is still legally a pistol.  I haven't measured them, or noticed the length in the specs.

Even this is a legal pistol.



But i think this picture would frighten any liberal anti gun people, & make them want to ban SOMETHING.  But there have probably been  more crimes committed with revolvers than anything like this.  What criminal would want to lug this thing around, anyway?   :Big Grin:

----------


## Dan40

> You guys posting pics of your rifles--some of which are in violation of Federal Law--are just begging for the BATFE to come knocking on your door.


With the Feds having over 10,000 gun laws and some states exceeding that and all states having an average of over 1000 gun laws, just thinking GUN probably violates some law.

But one more gun law should solve all problems.

One more gun law will make your bread rise, your teeth white, improve your gas mileage, and get that greasy bastard to break up with your daughter.

----------


## usfan

> With the Feds having over 10,000 gun laws and some states exceeding that and all states having an average of over 1000 gun laws, just thinking GUN probably violates some law.
> 
> But one more gun law should solve all problems.
> 
> One more gun law will make your bread rise, your teeth white, improve your gas mileage, and get that greasy bastard to break up with your daughter.


..and cure cancer, and make everyone get along, & stop world hunger..   :Rolleyes21:

----------


## Rudy2D

> The mech tech ccu 'adapters' for either 1911s or glocks are for a legal pistol.  I don't know if they make it into a 'rifle' or if it is still legally a pistol.  I haven't measured them, or noticed the length in the specs.


As if the BATFE was concerned about either the law or your intent.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

In the Historical department, guns weren't the first advent of lead bullets.  Lead is a soft, easily melted and very dense metal very useful for both guns and other "throwing" weapons like slings.  Lead use as a bullet dates back thousands of years.

Lead bullets could be slung fast enough to penetrate armor.  Just like a modern shooter, a slinger needed to have consistently sized/weighted bullets in order to have the most accuracy of aim, placement.  Like modern reloaders, this often meant casting their own using their own molds or having a reliable supplier.

This consistency often resulted markings particular to a person or group.  These are drawings of Roman bullets.  Most have the names of Generals or Legions on them, but I think the bottom right one means "Fuck You".



These are modern cast bullets using age old techniques:



These are ancient Greek bullets.  The writing on the right one means "catch" or "take this".

----------

usfan (10-19-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Just be cautious; some of those pics looked short.


Caution is always a good idea, but I haven't seen anything illegal.  Most people here are responsible gun owners, not nutty political extremists.

----------


## usfan

> As if the BATFE was concerned about either the law or your intent.


You are absolutely right.. the constitution is very inconvenient to the statists in power.  We should have already revolted by now, but we can't even vote to protect our freedoms from the encroaching leftists.  So the plunder of the people will continue, & the collapse of the currency seems inevitable.  I would think the upcoming generations would be pissed at the legacy being left them.. they have traded their birthright of freedom for empty promises.  The trampling of gun rights is merely a symptom.. the fiscal issues, redistribution, military expansionism, & corporate cronyism are much worse.  The only consolation is that gun owners will be able to shoot the stupid leftists after they have plunged us into economic collapse.  But it will be too late, then, & criminals, gangs, & survivalists will be shooting a lot of people, then.
But then we get to look forward to a new Someone coming forward, promising law & order.  He will confiscate the guns, for our own good, crack down on crime, maybe suspending some due process, but that also, for our own good..  and he will no doubt usher in a new era of peace & prosperity.. at least he'll promise it.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> As if the BATFE was concerned about either the law or your intent.


People who know the law, aren't paranoid, don't think this is still 1992's Ruby Ridge in Idaho and don't panic every time a helicopter flies overhead know our government still has to comply with the law.  

Yes, some government assholes violate the law, but that eventually comes out.  Have fun with the paranoia.

As it is, here's more pix of my new toys:

My Mosin Nagant with two cases of Soviet 7.62X54R ammo.  No, it's not fully automatic and does not have a high capacity magazine as firearms experts can easily see?



The Mosin Nagant is reported to "kick like a mule".  It's also a bit short in the stock for 21st Century shooters.  The addition of a hard synthetic recoil pad not only adds a good inch to the stock, but also cushions the kick.  This particular one is much stiffer than other recoil pads I've seen, but one solution I've read about is to drill all the way through the cutout holes seen in the picture.

----------

usfan (10-19-2013)

----------


## usfan

looks like a good one, rocky!!   :Thumbsup: 

Do your serial #'s all match?

I have a couple of slip on recoil pads.. one is like this:

Nice thing with it is i can swap it to different rifles or shotguns.  But a permanent mount is better, in the long run.

The stock on yours looks pretty good.  They are heavy but effective.  I don't know if i'd like to lug that thing across the state, but it packs enough power to do the job.

I see you got some stripper clips, too.  They actually work pretty well.. with practice, they are as fast as magazines & take up less room.  Are you going to scope it, too?  I've seen a scope 'kit' that has an offset bolt & mounts for a rail.. then you just mount scope rings & go.  I might do that to one of mine, but the old russian mosin will stay stock.
What is cool about mosins is they are so cheap, & there is an almost cult following of modifications, upgrades, & tweaks you can do.  ..and the ammo is cheap enough to actually take it shooting!  I reload for my 30-30 & 308, & that makes it pretty economical.  But i can't reload the mosin rounds.. they are cheaper to buy in the spam cans.

Anyway, i think the mosin is a pretty cool, high powered rifle.  Affordable, accurate, powerful.. a good combination.

----------


## Rudy2D

> People who know the law, aren't paranoid, don't think this is still 1992's Ruby Ridge in Idaho and don't panic every time a helicopter flies overhead know our government still has to comply with the law.  
> 
> Yes, some government assholes violate the law, but that eventually comes out.  Have fun with the paranoia.


I take it that post was dedicated to yo' mama?

----------


## usfan

Here are some fun mosin pics..








I think this might be an old pic of rocky..   :Laughing7:

----------

Perianne (10-19-2013)

----------


## Archer

> People who know the law, aren't paranoid, don't think this is still 1992's Ruby Ridge in Idaho and don't panic every time a helicopter flies overhead know our government still has to comply with the law.  
> 
> Yes, some government assholes violate the law, but that eventually comes out.  Have fun with the paranoia.
> 
> As it is, here's more pix of my new toys:
> 
> My Mosin Nagant with two cases of Soviet 7.62X54R ammo.  No, it's not fully automatic and does not have a high capacity magazine as firearms experts can easily see?
> 
> 
> ...


Kick is not bad but the metal butt plate can slide on a tee shirt slamming your collar bone. Happened to me one time because it dose not kick like an 06 and I was slack.

----------


## Perianne

> 


Those bullets are pointed.  Are they designed to penetrate?

----------


## Archer

> Those bullets are pointed.  Are they designed to penetrate?


If I may...

Look like lead tips and if they are it is for expansion upon impact. This causes a larger wound channel and passes the energy from the round effectively thereby sending the victim/game into shock.

If I am wrong then those are tungsten carbide perpetrator tips which will penetrate between 3/8 and 1/2+ thick mild steel (some AR plate as well).

----------

Perianne (10-19-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Those bullets are pointed.  Are they designed to penetrate?


FMJ with mild steel core but not armor piercing (AP) or other special round. 

http://www.classicfirearms.com/bul54rst



> This ammo was maunfactured in the late 70's through the 80's  Russia. 
>  The Silver bar you see on the wooden case and on the can indicates Silver Tip. 
> 
> The Silver Tipped 149 grain Boat Tail bullet in this ammunition is unique in that it has a steel shank in the center of the projectile beneath an exterior coating of lead that is bonded to the bullet jacket. This allows the projectile to stabilize in flight and provides the accuracy and penetration of a steel core round while not being harsh on the barrel or bore as is the case with a full hardened steel core. It is the absolute best of both worlds.
> 
> Also, the Boat Tail Bullet is more aerodynamic and allows for a flatter trajectory and greater accuracy over a long distance.
> 
> This ammo has a copper washed steel case and is berdan primed. The case neck and the primer are sealed for moisture protection. It comes packed in 20rd. military packs, 440rds. per sealed spam can. As with most surplus 54r ammo this ammunition does have some mildly corrosive components so remember to clean your weapon after firing.

----------


## usfan

> You guys posting pics of your rifles--some of which are in violation of Federal Law--are just begging for the BATFE to come knocking on your door.


I was on the mech tech forum & saw this:



> There has been considerable discussion out in cyberspace relative to the legalities of the CCU. We have here a definitive ruling from the BATF - when you assemble a pistol lower to the CCU upper you create a legal rifle and when you remove the pistol lower and reassemble the pistol you are NOT creating an SBR (short barreled rifle). All the assembling/disassembling is totally legal from the view of the BATF. The ruling is dated 25 July 2011 - here is the link to the 4 page ruling: http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-ru ... 2011-4.pdf
> As usual the first 3+ pages are legal obfuscation rather than just stating things in plain English. The real meat of the ruling relative to the CCU is at the bottom of the last page in the first 2 paragraphs beginning with the words 'held further'. Also, in the NRA publication 'American Rifleman' Nov 2011 issue, page 90 (ILA Report column) the following excerpt appears:
> "The ruling also states that a pistol can be made into a rifle (for example by adding a long barrel and a shoulder stock), and then turned back into a pistol, without making an NFA 'firearm' "



..it's not a big deal, & i certainly wasn't losing any sleep over it.  But it seems that common sense has prevailed with these types of conversions.

It's kind of funny.. the 'lower' is what is considered the firearm.  That part you have to send to an ffl if you buy it online.  The upper can ship with no restrictions.  That is the barrel assembly.  I guess they have to define something as the 'weapon', so you don't order all the parts somewhere & assemble it.

----------


## usfan

> If I may...
> Look like lead tips and if they are it is for expansion upon impact. This causes a larger wound channel and passes the energy from the round effectively thereby sending the victim/game into shock.
> If I am wrong then those are tungsten carbide perpetrator tips which will penetrate between 3/8 and 1/2+ thick mild steel (some AR plate as well).


The russian 'silver tips' are just painted.  when you buy these old milsurp bullets, some have the silver tip, & some don't.  I've gotten both, but they are the same.. just a cosmetic difference.  I haven't checked out a fired slug.. sometime i'll dig one out & examine it.

I bet these are great for scaring liberals, though!  That silver tip 'looks' scary.  You can pull one of these out & shake it at them to scare them off!   :Laughing7: 

I checked the tips with a magnet.. they are mostly steel.  I suspect a very light plating of lead, then copper for them.  Most eastern bloc rounds are steel with copper plating.  I have a bunch of 223 & 7.62x39 that is the same.  These will not mushroom on impact, but will work.  If i were going on an elk hunt, i'd want some better hunting rounds for the hunt, but these are fine for HD or plinking, as ~ 20c/round.

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-20-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> It's kind of funny.. the 'lower' is what is considered the firearm.  That part you have to send to an ffl if you buy it online.  The upper can ship with no restrictions.  That is the barrel assembly.  I guess they have to define something as the 'weapon', so you don't order all the parts somewhere & assemble it.


The receiver is the part that is restricted.  It's the part that is cut up when buying surplus automatic weapons through the mail.

I used to have a surplus Sten machine gun which was cut at the receiver, but not as bad as this one:

----------


## Archer

> FMJ with mild steel core but not armor piercing (AP) or other special round. 
> 
> http://www.classicfirearms.com/bul54rst


Steel core not AP but penetrating.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Steel core not AP but penetrating.


I think all bullets are meant to penetrate. 

Since the subject came up, I researched it.  It appears the Soviets had both heavy and light ball ammo.  The silver tips differentiated between the two.  Just silver is "light ball"149 grain bullets.   Yellow tipped is "heavy ball" is 183 grain bullets.

----------


## Archer

> I think all bullets are meant to penetrate. 
> 
> Since the subject came up, I researched it.  It appears the Soviets had both heavy and light ball ammo.  The silver tips differentiated between the two.  Just silver is "light ball"149 grain bullets.   Yellow tipped is "heavy ball" is 183 grain bullets.


Steel core helps the bullet retain shape after passing through things like doors. Though not the best it is AP because the core does no deform.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Agreed as steel core would help it retain its shape and, therefore, more easily pass through a target such as the door of a Jeep or Humvee.

----------


## usfan

I decided to go to the range, yesterday.  I had some 45acp reloads i wanted to try, & i thought i'd check the sighting of the ar, with open sights & the scope.  Its also tough for me to go to the range without a revolver, so i threw in the 357 for fun.  I probably shot less than 100 rounds, total.. more with the ar than anything.  It reminded me what a great firearm this is.  A decent cartridge, ballistically, light weight, accurate to 200 yds or so.. small, lightweight ammo.  If i had to survive in some wild country, this would be a good all around firearm.  You can carry several 30 rnd mags & the lightweight rifle.  I can leave it open sights, or clamp on a quick release scope.  It is compact, short, & easily handled.  This or a mini 14 would be a good all around firearm for almost any situation.  HD, shtf, hunting, survival, target shooting.. just about anything except concealed carry!  I love a shotgun, but the 223 is more versatile.

I have this one..  with no tacticool accessories.  I added a couple of flip up sights, & have a scope with quick release clamps for the picatinny rail.



This was much more accurate than the 9mm carbine i shot, & of course any pistol.  Ammo is cheap, & so is the gun, now.. you can get it (or something like it) for ~ $700.

The 45 was fine, as always, & some of the hotter reloads packed a nice punch..  a 1911 & an ar-15 would be a good all purpose combo.. but i still want my shotguns & 22s..   :Big Grin:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Thanks for the review, USfan.  I know there are a lot of AR-15 models out there and it's nice to see a review from someone who isn't trying to sell it. 


Windham Weaponry has a nice selection of models and it's review on cheaperthandirt.com is a good one too.

http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=33122

http://www.windhamweaponry.com/pdf/W...g%204-2013.pdf

I agree that it would be a good all-around hunting and defense rifle.  The light weight, cheap ammo and commonality of parts, magazines and ammunition is a plus.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I'm in the market for a spotting scope.  Anyone have one?  Make and model?  How do you like it?  

I need something for spotting rounds into a target at least at a 100 yards, but preferably at least 200 yards.   There are a couple of Bushnell Sentry scopes, both the I and II, on Ebay, but with shipping, they're only about 30 dollars cheaper than new.   All are 18-36x50.

Opticsplanet has about 300 of them ranging from just over a hundred bucks to a couple of thousand.  I don't plan on taking pictures with it or anything fancy.  I just want something than take a little abuse and spot hits out to a couple of hundred yards.

----------


## Perianne

> I'm in the market for a spotting scope.  Anyone have one?  Make and model?  How do you like it?


I know you guys like talking about guns and stuff, so I will ask a question that has been swirling around in my empty head.

If you set your gun to hit a target at say, 100yds, then then you have a deer show up at 214 yards, then the scope is not accurate at 214 yards,  right?  I don't understand how that works.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

This link on Opticsplanet gives some details about picking out a scope.  It looks like I'll need at least a good 60-80mm scope:
http://www.opticsplanet.com/howto/ho...html?section=4
_The good news is that most 60mm objective spotting scopes to 80mm objective spotting scopes at $200 and up have enough optical quality to handle 200 yard scoring, assuming reasonable observing conditions. This distance is as much as most shooters need for sighting in and/or to check load performance._

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I know you guys like talking about guns and stuff, so I will ask a question that has been swirling around in my empty head.
> 
> If you set your gun to hit a target at say, 100yds, then then you have a deer show up at 214 yards, then the scope is not accurate at 214 yards,  right?  I don't understand how that works.


Correct.  The rifle is sighted in at 100 yards, but the ballistics of the bullet, the path it takes through the air, is a slight arc.  It rises and eventually falls all the to the ground.  You'd end up having to aim a little higher, say an inch or two depending on your rifle.  Best to sight in at 100 yards if that is what you'd usually use, then take some practice shots at 200 yards.  If you consistently hit 2 inches low at 200 yards, then you'd adjust accordingly.

Now, the really hard part is know how far the target is without using a range finder.  That's another item on my wishlist.

----------

Perianne (10-23-2013)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> I know you guys like talking about guns and stuff, so I will ask a question that has been swirling around in my empty head.
> 
> If you set your gun to hit a target at say, 100yds, then then you have a deer show up at 214 yards, then the scope is not accurate at 214 yards,  right?  I don't understand how that works.



Bullets travel in an arc. Some shoot flatter than others. There are a number of factors that go into that. The caliber, length of the barrel, the weight of the bullet, the ballistic coefficient of the bullet are all things that affect trajectory. The simple answer to your question is yes, there will be difference in point of aim and point of impact. You just have to figure what that difference is going to be with your particular gun.

A lot of optics today have bullet drop compensators in them that help you determine what that difference will be. There are even applications for smart phones now that will compute it for you. I was on the range recently and got a first round cold shot hit on a coffee can sized container of Tannerite at 947 meters with a Barrett MRAD .338 Lapua by using a smart phone app to make the computations for me. That is something we could not have done ten years ago.

At a range of 214 yards, the best thing to do is just be familiar enough with your rifle to figure your holdover and change your point of aim a little bit. For most major calibers, it is going to be minimal. For example the shift for a 55 grain spitzer from a 22-250 is only about half an inch at 200 yards, but it drops like a rock after about 300. They are all different. Just get to know your gun and your bullet and you will have no problem making the adjustment.

----------

Perianne (10-24-2013),usfan (10-24-2013)

----------


## usfan

> I'm in the market for a spotting scope.  Anyone have one?  Make and model?  How do you like it?  
> 
> I need something for spotting rounds into a target at least at a 100 yards, but preferably at least 200 yards.   There are a couple of Bushnell Sentry scopes, both the I and II, on Ebay, but with shipping, they're only about 30 dollars cheaper than new.   All are 18-36x50.
> 
> Opticsplanet has about 300 of them ranging from just over a hundred bucks to a couple of thousand.  I don't plan on taking pictures with it or anything fancy.  I just want something than take a little abuse and spot hits out to a couple of hundred yards.


I picked up a cheap barska spotting scope a few years back.. it works.  I'm sure there are clearer ones, & more expensive, but this was on sale & i got it.  It's 20-60 zoom, 60mm, waterproof, with a small tripod.  I think i paid ~ $100.  I've seen them for $60 since.

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-24-2013)

----------


## usfan

My son in law got a nice nikon scope for his 300.. it has an app you can punch in distance & other variables, including factory brand of ammo.  It will then tell you what setting to put the scope at, assuming you're sighted in earlier.  It's pretty high tech.. no mil dot calculations needed.  It would be fun to shoot something like Ptr's 338 lapua.. but you'd need a big range to shoot it.  The one i use here only goes to ~200 yds, & you have to climb a hill to set up.  It's really only practical for up to 100yds.  The range we go to in ogden valley goes to over 300 yds.. very nice for sighting in distance shots..

----------


## usfan

here is the spotting scope i got..


http://www.shopbarska.com/Spotting_S...ing_Scope.html

You might find it cheaper on ebay, or on sale at one of the online gun stores like midway or optics planet.  I haven't used a lot of different scopes, so i don't have much to compare with.  But this one works, & is pretty clear on full zoom.

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-24-2013)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> My son in law got a nice nikon scope for his 300.. it has an app you can punch in distance & other variables, including factory brand of ammo.  It will then tell you what setting to put the scope at, assuming you're sighted in earlier.  It's pretty high tech.. no mil dot calculations needed.  It would be fun to shoot something like Ptr's 338 lapua.. but you'd need a big range to shoot it.  The one i use here only goes to ~200 yds, & you have to climb a hill to set up.  It's really only practical for up to 100yds.  The range we go to in ogden valley goes to over 300 yds.. very nice for sighting in distance shots..


We are set up for shots out to a little over 1600 meters.

Unfortunately, that Barrett MRAD was not mine. It belonged to someone with whom I have done a lot of shooting. I have two precision rifles, but they are both .308s. One is a heavy barreled Winchester Model 70, and the other is a heavy barreled Remington 700. They are good, solid 800 meter guns, but under ideal conditions, you can squeeze a Grand out of them. Of course, ideal conditions never occur when  you need them, so realistically, I plan on 800 and in on them.

The technology available to precision shooters today is amazing. I remember the days of having a dope card taped to the stock of my rifle. Today, it is a matter of punching in a few buttons on a phone to get a shooting solution. It is almost scary.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> here is the spotting scope i got..
> 
> 
> http://www.shopbarska.com/Spotting_S...ing_Scope.html
> 
> You might find it cheaper on ebay, or on sale at one of the online gun stores like midway or optics planet.  I haven't used a lot of different scopes, so i don't have much to compare with.  But this one works, & is pretty clear on full zoom.


I was eyeing the Barska's pretty hard both last night and today.  Reading reviews, looking at comments on gun forums, blogs and other sources.  It has good reviews and great bang for the buck.  

In the end, I decided to take the advice posted on one website "when buying optics, buy the best you can afford.  You won't be unhappy".   Opticsplanet is having a major sale and I decided to go with the Konus 20-60X80 ($439.99 on sale for $209 free shipping).  With a 5% coupon I found online, it came to $198.55

http://www.opticsplanet.com/konus-ko...ing-scope.html

----------

usfan (10-24-2013)

----------


## usfan

> We are set up for shots out to a little over 1600 meters.
> 
> Unfortunately, that Barrett MRAD was not mine. It belonged to someone with whom I have done a lot of shooting. I have two precision rifles, but they are both .308s. One is a heavy barreled Winchester Model 70, and the other is a heavy barreled Remington 700. They are good, solid 800 meter guns, but under ideal conditions, you can squeeze a Grand out of them. Of course, ideal conditions never occur when  you need them, so realistically, I plan on 800 and in on them.
> 
> The technology available to precision shooters today is amazing. I remember the days of having a dope card taped to the stock of my rifle. Today, it is a matter of punching in a few buttons on a phone to get a shooting solution. It is almost scary.



Yeah.. i'm going to wait until the aftermarket drone mod comes up for the mosin..   :Big Grin:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-24-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Yeah.. i'm going to wait until the aftermarket drone mod comes up for the mosin..


Wasn't that a Mosin in the beginning of "Flight of the Intruder" when a Vietnamese farmer takes a potshot at the A-6?

If Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett could lead a target and hit it with a musket, I'm sure we could do the same with a Mosin Nagant!

----------


## usfan

> Wasn't that a Mosin in the beginning of "Flight of the Intruder" when a Vietnamese farmer takes a potshot at the A-6?
> 
> If Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett could lead a target and hit it with a musket, I'm sure we could do the same with a Mosin Nagant!


The problem we have is there will be someone like PTM with a 50bmg 1.5 miles away, dropping us while we're looking for where it originated.  We need to get PTM on our side, so he can watch our backs, THEN we can lug those big mosins down to the river & fill some buckets, & maybe shoot a moose..  but, would we need 'moosins' for that?   :Laughing7:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The problem we have is there will be someone like PTM with a 50bmg 1.5 miles away, dropping us while we're looking for where it originated.  We need to get PTM on our side, so he can watch our backs, THEN we can lug those big mosins down to the river & fill some buckets, & maybe shoot a moose..  but, would we need 'moosins' for that?


That's where being an expert in "cover and concealment" comes into play.  Additionally, in order to see that far, someone would have to be elevated.  In a mountainous area, there would be plenty of places, but not so in Texas.  The location of the sniper's nest would become more obvious.  

The Vietnamese did a number on our guys with just sharp bamboo sticks dipped in shit, placing them along the sides of the trail than firing a few gunshots and running.  They didn't have to even hit anything.  The GI's diving into the bushes for cover did all the work.

In the end, innovation and ingenuity win wars, not weapons.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I saw this article in this month's American Rifleman: Ammunition Storage.
http://www.imageshack.com/scaled/large/189/x4cd.png

The topic hasn't been broached in awhile and the article was a great reminder on how best to store your ammo.

I have mine in metal  military .50 and 5.56mm cans, but,due to a recent purchase of .45 ammo, needed another storage container.  I ended up buying a plastic one for $7 at Wally World.  It's about the same size as a 5.56mm ammo can.

----------

Perianne (10-25-2013),usfan (10-25-2013)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> we prefer revolvers because they are easier to load and reload.   And  it is difficult to cock the semi-automatic the first time to chamber the round.  AND it is hard to load the clip.


I prefer revolvers for home defense. I carry an auto for work and daily off duty carry.

The big advantage to a revolver for home defense over any other firearm is that you can load it and store it for extended periods and never have to worry about spring fatigue. People who load their autopistols and keep them loaded for extended periods run the risk of a magazine malfunction when they need the gun the most. My primary home defense gun is a 4' Smith Model 66. I know it that if it sits in place for 10 years, it will fire when I pull the trigger, and it will continue to fire until I empty the cylinder.

Women and revolvers versus women and autos is a topic that has been bandied about for a long time. Interestingly, it has been shown time and again that most women actually shoot better with autos than they do with revolvers.  They tend to be more ergonomic and point more naturally than revolvers do. They also have less recoil impulse than revolvers. They are however, more complicated to use and more prone to failure than a revolver.

I think most women who prefer revolvers over autos do so for the same reasons I prefer a revolver for home defense. It works every time and if it does fail to fire, you just squeeze the trigger again.

There is also a propaganda thing going on. A lot of women have been told (generally by men) over the years, that autos are "too much gun" for most women and they are better off carrying a revolver. That is of course, nonsense.

----------

usfan (10-26-2013)

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Why? The government is already aware of my purchases, as they were made at one store.


It should not matter. When you purchase a firearm from a Federally licensed dealer, the NICS check, that is the FBI background check you go through, is required by laew to be purged from the FBI's database within 24 hours. They are not allowed to keep it on file. Even if they did violate the law, all it shows is that a records check was done. It says nothing about the type of gun you are purchasing. 

The ATF form 4473 (the yellow sheet) that you fill out at the point of purchase is kept by the seller. That information is NOT transferred to the Feds. If they want to look at it, there are only two ways they can do it. One is an ATF on site onsite inspection during which ATF is allowed to check the paperwork to make sure records are being kept properly. During these inspections, they are prohibited  from removing any of the records or copying any of the data on the records.

The second way is with a subpoena. If they subpoena records, they have to subpoena SPECIFIC records. They can't go in and say I want to see every 4473 you have on file in order to know who bought guns from you and what type of guns they bought. They can go in with a subpoena and say "I need to see the transaction record for this specific firearm or this specific person", and that is all they are allowed to look at.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Honestly, I don't think any vet should put his gun collection on a forum.


I don't think it matters that much, unless you tie it to an address. My concern would not the authorities, it would be thieves targeting you because they knew about the guns.

A friend of mine recently had an _original_ Winchester 73 in .32-20 stolen from him. They took that and an early production run Winchester 94 but left several other guns untouched. The Model 73 was appraised at 14,900 Dollars.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> A Kalishnakov is far more durable and reliable than the M-16


That is why they invented cleaning kits. I would choose an AR over an AK any day of the week.




> The M-14 was an EXCELLENT Rifle


It was adequate.

The truth is, they were fragile.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> That is why they invented cleaning kits. I would choose an AR over an AK any day of the week.
> 
> 
> 
> It was adequate.
> 
> *The truth is, they were fragile.*


Now I do believe you don't know what you are talking about, sir.  I've used both in the Marine Corps would gladly have an M-14 as my main weapon of choice over an AR exactly because it was tough and reliable.  It's heavy and the ammo is heavier, but a 7.62 NATO goes through walls and doors that would stop a 5.56.  It have great accuracy over ranges of 500 yards where the M-16's best range was 300 and under. Usually 200 or less.  I've literally dragged the M-14 through the mud and had it function 100%.  I can't say the same for the M-16.  This was back in the 1970s, so maybe they've improved the M-16s since then.  Anyone think so? 

As for the AK and AR debate,  the AK, along with other Soviet designed weapons, were often less sophisticated and less versitile than American weapons, but they were also more durable and less problematic.  You don't find a dust-cover and a charging handle on an AK, SKS or even an M-14.  You only find them on finally machined, more "delicate" weapons.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I don't think it matters that much, unless you tie it to an address. My concern would not the authorities, it would be thieves targeting you because they knew about the guns.
> 
> A friend of mine recently had an _original_ Winchester 73 in .32-20 stolen from him. They took that and an early production run Winchester 94 but left several other guns untouched. The Model 73 was appraised at 14,900 Dollars.


I'm guessing the thief was someone who had been in the house.  They knew exactly where to look and what to take.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Here are some fun mosin pics..


That looks like a great little rig but I wouldn't put that much money into one.   I'm assuming that's the carbine version. 




> I think this might be an old pic of rocky..


Well, I did look that young and cocky once!  I still have the same shit eatin' grin though.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Now I do believe you don't know what you are talking about, sir.


You would be wrong.




> I've used both in the Marine Corps would gladly have an M-14 as my main weapon of choice over an AR exactly because it was tough and reliable.


The rifle was overrated. It was indeed heavy and far longer than it needed to be (over 44 inches), and it was fragile. It was n fact, so fragile that we were not allowed to parachute with them in a standard weapons container.




> It's heavy and the ammo is heavier, but a 7.62 NATO goes through walls and doors that would stop a 5.56.  It have great accuracy over ranges of 500 yards where the M-16's best range was 300 and under. Usually 200 or less.


The 7.62 x 51mm is a good round. There is no doubt of that. However, being a good round does not make it ideally suited for Infantry use. Any good rifleman should be able to engage targets with a 5.56mm out to about 400 meters consistently with iron sights. If it is out beyond yhat range, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it anyway, unless you are Designated Marksman or on a crew served weapon.




> I've literally dragged the M-14 through the mud and had it function 100%. I can't say the same for the M-16.


I can.





> As for the AK and AR debate,  the AK, along with other Soviet designed weapons, were often less sophisticated and less versitile than American weapons, but they were also more durable and less problematic.  You don't find a dust-cover and a charging handle on an AK, SKS or even an M-14.  You only find them on finally machined, more "delicate" weapons.


Uh, the selector lever on the AK is a dust cover.

The M-16 and its variants have been our standard service rifle longer than any rifle in the history of the US Armed Forces. It has evolved into a weapons platform more versatile and effective than anything that came before. The M-14 was okay for what it was, but it did not take very long to realize that it was not ideally suited to be an Infantry Rifle. The length, the weight, the shooter fatigue caused by the recoil, some inherently weak design flaws, all contributed to it being our standard service rifle for only 11 years and why the search for a replacement for it actually began before it was ever fielded.

The newer M-14 EBR addresses some of those weaknesses and is a much improved rifle, but it still is not and never will be suitable for general issue.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> I'm guessing the thief was someone who had been in the house.  They knew exactly where to look and what to take.


We are pretty sure it was a workman who was working on a wall.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> We are pretty sure it was a workman who was working on a wall.


That would be a good suspect.  I take it the police know and are working on it?

In Texas, grand larceny is a theft of over $500 in goods.  What is it in your friend's state?

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> That would be a good suspect.  I take it the police know and are working on it?


This one falls within the jurisdiction of our Sheriff's Office, which pretty much means the guns are lost forever.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The 7.62 x 51mm is a good round. There is no doubt of that. However, being a good round does not make it ideally suited for Infantry use. Any good rifleman should be able to engage targets with a 5.56mm out to about 400 meters consistently with iron sights. If it is out beyond yhat range, you probably shouldn't be shooting at it anyway, unless you are Designated Marksman or on a crew served weapon


I can engage a target with a .22 out to 400 yards, but that doesn't mean I'd hit anything.  With the M-16 at 500 yards, it was a toss up on hitting a man-sized target. While I had been an ROTC rifle team member and always shot Expert throughout my military career, I wasn't a sniper or someone trained specifically on long range shooting, winds and such.  While some are, that fact remains most are not.  Ergo, what works for a military trained sniper specialist doesn't mean it works for well qualified shooters on the front line.   

The M-14 was rugged.  It could be dropped, kicked, swung like a bat and still shoot straight.  The M-16 isn't a tough.

Still, as mentioned elsewhere, it depends on the mission.  If I was sweeping rooms, I'd choose something other than an M-14.  Same goes for fighting in a built up area like a town.  In general though, meaning if I could only have one rifle, it would be an M-14 over an M-16.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> This one falls within the jurisdiction of our Sheriff's Office, which pretty much means the guns are lost forever.


The downside of small town police forces.  With more budget cuts coming, we'll need to get used to this sort of thing.

Did his insurance cover it?

----------


## Archer

Sorry but my opinion is a 30 cal (preferably an AK) for SHTF days. 

Sorry but the AK is good not because it is rugged or a bigger bullet or anything else. It is good because it is a great design that was crappily manufactured with such loose tolerances that it was forgiving.

So I am saying the M16 is not as good as the AK, because it (the 16) has tighter tolerances and a better fit. Cleaned regularly and after heavy use the 16 is a better weapon. Filthy the AK is better and that is even new out of the box. Keeping heads down is just about as important and hitting the fucking target. If I needed to go over 250 yds I would use neither of them.

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-26-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got a couple of new toys in the mail when I came home today (with a few others still to come).  One was a LASER bore sighting device.  About $30.  I haven't even cut it out of the package yet.  I'll wait until I have time tomorrow to mess with it.

The second was a triangular bayonet for my Mosin Nagant.  Most people were very proud of their bayonets, but I took a chance on one seen on Ebay where the seller was motivated and didn't seem to care/know what he had.  It turned out great. The bayonet is about 17.5 inches long and, when attached to the rifle plus the recoil pad, the whole weapon is over 66 inches long.

----------


## Perianne

> Sorry but my opinion is a 30 cal (preferably an AK) for SHTF days.


I thought you said I should get a lever-action, @Archer.  I have my eyes on a .357 Rossi in my local gun store.  Remember, we talked about the .357 because I already have that ammo and you said it would be a good SHTF weapon?  Now I am confused.  

You are confusing me on purpose because I am a strumpet, right?  lol

----------


## Perianne

> 


Him be long gun indeed!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Him be long gun indeed!


I have to be careful not to poke a hole in the ceiling with it!  Running around the house at port arms with it would likely take out a fan and a couple of lights.

I've been fiddling with the LASER boresighter.  It says it can work up to a hundred yard in dim light, so I'll have to see either tomorrow morning or evening.  Looks like fun.

----------


## usfan

I took both mosins to the range today.. & the 308.  the short chinese type 53 puts out a flame about 2' long!  Both are very loud.  The long russian one shoots a bit high & to the right, the chinese shoots low & straight.  I did a few 175 yd shots for fun, it still is pretty flat shooting.  As it got dark, the sparks would fly when it hit rocks.  It could be a 'shock & awe' weapon going in at night somewhere..   :Laughing7:   I just shot some old russian silvertips, & used the stripper clips.  They are a bit stiff, & i need more practice loading up.  The type 53 chinese loaded easier.

I also shot a few pistols, & the tikka t3 in 308.. sighted in a scope.  I did that earlier, when i only had ~ 70 yds to work with.  but i got it within a 4" group off the truck tailgate.. good enough for now.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I took both mosins to the range today.. & the 308.  the short chinese type 53 puts out a flame about 2' long!  Both are very loud.  The long russian one shoots a bit high & to the right, the chinese shoots low & straight.  I did a few 175 yd shots for fun, it still is pretty flat shooting.  As it got dark, the sparks would fly when it hit rocks.  It could be a 'shock & awe' weapon going in at night somewhere..    I just shot some old russian silvertips, & used the stripper clips.  They are a bit stiff, & i need more practice loading up.  The type 53 chinese loaded easier.
> 
> I also shot a few pistols, & the tikka t3 in 308.. sighted in a scope.  I did that earlier, when i only had ~ 70 yds to work with.  but i got it within a 4" group off the truck tailgate.. good enough for now.


Sounds like a fun day of shooting.  

I have some Chinese-made stripper clips but they don't seem to work.  I don't know if it is because they are new and too stiff.  

The Tikka T3 looks like an excellent rifle.

----------


## Archer

> I thought you said I should get a lever-action, @Archer.  I have my eyes on a .357 Rossi in my local gun store.  Remember, we talked about the .357 because I already have that ammo and you said it would be a good SHTF weapon?  Now I am confused.  
> 
> You are confusing me on purpose because I am a strumpet, right?  lol


For you, yes. Different people different gun, different thread.

The question for you is do you need to be capable of hitting a target at 400+ yards?

This is not the protection thread where we were discussing weapons specifically for you.

----------

Perianne (10-27-2013)

----------


## usfan

> I would choose an AR over an AK any day of the week.


+1  I like the ar.. decent ballistics, lightweight.  There is a reason it has been the choice of the us military for a field rifle for decades.

That does not mean i don't like the ak.. i do!  I would use either or both in war or home defense.  And of course, my ar is a semi.. not a fully auto m16.




> That looks like a great little rig but I wouldn't put that much money into one.   I'm assuming that's the carbine version.


I think that is the ATI stock.. they're ~$60.  ..lots of cheap mods for mosins.




> I can engage a target with a .22 out to 400 yards, but that doesn't mean I'd hit anything.  With the M-16 at 500 yards, it was a toss up on hitting a man-sized target. While I had been an ROTC rifle team member and always shot Expert throughout my military career, I wasn't a sniper or someone trained specifically on long range shooting, winds and such.  While some are, that fact remains most are not.  Ergo, what works for a military trained sniper specialist doesn't mean it works for well qualified shooters on the front line.   
> The M-14 was rugged.  It could be dropped, kicked, swung like a bat and still shoot straight.  The M-16 isn't a tough.
> Still, as mentioned elsewhere, it depends on the mission.  If I was sweeping rooms, I'd choose something other than an M-14.  Same goes for fighting in a built up area like a town.  In general though, meaning if I could only have one rifle, it would be an M-14 over an M-16.


Yes, it completely depends on the intended use.  The 5.56 is not a long distance sniper round.  If that was your task, a 50bmg would be best.  But for general duty warfare & civil unrest, i'm good with the AR-15 round.  You can get more power with the ar-10 in 7.62x51, but the cartridges are a lot bigger, heavier, & kick more.  IMO, it becomes a matter of personal choice.. Archer likes to lug around that huge 454.  I'd rather have a glock 9mm for a sidearm.  Hopefully, if we collapse in civil war, we will have enough variety to present a formidable fighting force. ..cowboys with lever guns, gangstas with semi autos, some old guys with their favorites, & enough modern weaponry to win a battle.  We've got to get peri armed, though.. we can't have her showing up with a strumpet outfit!   :Laughing7: 




> Sorry but my opinion is a 30 cal (preferably an AK) for SHTF days. 
> Sorry but the AK is good not because it is rugged or a bigger bullet or anything else. It is good because it is a great design that was crappily manufactured with such loose tolerances that it was forgiving.
> So I am saying the M16 is not as good as the AK, because it (the 16) has tighter tolerances and a better fit. Cleaned regularly and after heavy use the 16 is a better weapon. Filthy the AK is better and that is even new out of the box. Keeping heads down is just about as important and hitting the fucking target. If I needed to go over 250 yds I would use neither of them.


IMO, that is a bit of an oversimplification.  The AR platform isn't as finicky as people say.. that's more of an 'urban myth.'  Granted, the ak platform is great, with lots of history of effectiveness.  But i would take a group of well trained soldiers with ar's over ak's, with all other things being equal.  Unless you are predicting ww1 trench warfare, crawling through mud & barbed wire, the ar is fine.  there are too many variables to say which is best, in any shtf setting.  What if the invading troops are armed with ar's?  It would be a lot easier to grab a few mags as you're running around, rather than try to find some ak ammo in the field.  Variety is the spice of life.  I'll take both.  :Big Grin:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-27-2013)

----------


## usfan

> I thought you said I should get a lever-action, @Archer.  I have my eyes on a .357 Rossi in my local gun store.  Remember, we talked about the .357 because I already have that ammo and you said it would be a good SHTF weapon?  Now I am confused.  
> You are confusing me on purpose because I am a strumpet, right?  lol





> For you, yes. Different people different gun, different thread.
> The question for you is do you need to be capable of hitting a target at 400+ yards?
> This is not the protection thread where we were discussing weapons specifically for you.


This is the big question, peri..  IF you want 200+ yard range, it is going to kick.  IF you want easy shooting, 100 yds will be the max.  That rossi is a great gun, & would be a fine companion to your pistol.  But if you're wanting to sit on a roof & shoot at things 200+ yds away, it won't do.  You could get by with a mosin or ar for that.  And if you want to reach out to 400+ yds, you'll need something else.

I still think you should check out an ar-15.  The rounds are very easy, recoil wise, & the rifle is lightweight & is effective to ~ 300 yds, though practically, ~200 is it, with any wind or adverse conditions.  You can take a deer with one, in an emergency, & the ammo is readily available.  You can get it in a ruger ranch rifle, the mini 14, to get away from the 'black rifle' look.  Put on a simple scope, & you have a good all around rifle, for multiple uses.  You've got a 22 rifle, which is good out to 100 yds, but only for squirrels or rabbits, or to scare off intruders.    A big caliber, like a 308, or mosin nagant, or 30-06, will be effective for longer ranges, & have  better knockdown power, but it will kick.  I put a recoil pad on my mosin & can shoot it all day.  There are solutions for recoil.  You can do the same with your shotgun.  A firm grip with good cheek weld, held tight to your shoulder, AND a slip on recoil pad makes it very manageable.  You should check & see if there are any ranges that let you rent rifles, & try them out.  Ask around at work & see if there aren't some firearm aficionados there to help you out.  Any of us here would be glad to help, but we're too far away..   :Frown: 

If you could learn to manage the recoil, that will open up a lot more options.  You could pick up a cheap mosin & a spam can, & have plenty of long range power.  Otherwise, the 357 rossi will be about the extent of your range, unless you get a 223 to extend it a bit.

----------

Perianne (10-27-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> .......Unless you are predicting ww1 trench warfare, crawling through mud & barbed wire, the ar is fine......


But that's the point.  If the SHTF, it wouldn't take place on a rifle range then everyone goes home to clean their weapons and watch TV.  You'd be living in the field, day in, day out, in rain, mud, snow, sleet, sand and the like.  My experience with the M-16 is that the dust cover is a necessary part of it's function since, as previously mentioned, it's tolerances are so tight that even few grains of sand will cause it to jam.  Not so with the AK, M-14 or a few other weapons.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I'm a bit bummed at Bushnell and sent them an email complaining about their LASER Boresighter.  It projects a slash instead of a dot.  There are little allen screws in the sides but the instructions don't say what they are for.  

The website is of zero help.

Anyone know better?

----------


## Archer

> +1  I like the ar.. decent ballistics, lightweight.  There is a reason it has been the choice of the us military for a field rifle for decades.
> 
> That does not mean i don't like the ak.. i do!  I would use either or both in war or home defense.  And of course, my ar is a semi.. not a fully auto m16.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that is the ATI stock.. they're ~$60.  ..lots of cheap mods for mosins.
> 
> 
> ...


I am looking at a weapon for people that just need to point and shoot. I am also looking at design and complexity. 




Now this is common knowledge to most of us that the 16 is better engineered and the 47 is meant to be handed to the untrained.

I did not like the auto test because the guy doing the AK testing should have been firing from the hip.

Still your point about ammunition is probably the best point in favor of the 16.

----------


## usfan

> I'm a bit bummed at Bushnell and sent them an email complaining about their LASER Boresighter.  It projects a slash instead of a dot.  There are little allen screws in the sides but the instructions don't say what they are for.  
> 
> The website is of zero help.
> 
> Anyone know better?


sorry, rocky.. i've never used a boresight.. sounds like a good idea, & I have removed the bolt & done the preliminary sighting through the barrel, but a laser bore sight sounds like a good idea, & should be cheap & easy to use.

----------


## Archer

> sorry, rocky.. i've never used a boresight.. sounds like a good idea, & I have removed the bolt & done the preliminary sighting through the barrel, but a laser bore sight sounds like a good idea, & should be cheap & easy to use.


They can get you a start and I have heard the laser jobs are awesome!

http://www.cabelas.com/category/Bore.../103924980.uts

Before they had those they had barrel inserts that you lined your cross hairs with. Good enough to put you on paper @ 50-100 yards but that was about it.

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-27-2013)

----------


## usfan

> I am looking at a weapon for people that just need to point and shoot. I am also looking at design and complexity. 
> Now this is common knowledge to most of us that the 16 is better engineered and the 47 is meant to be handed to the untrained.
> I did not like the auto test because the guy doing the AK testing should have been firing from the hip.
> Still your point about ammunition is probably the best point in favor of the 16.


great video!  That was very entertaining, even if it wasn't that 'scientific' of a comparison.   :Big Grin: 

The block test was silly.. if the ar round would have hit the edge of the block, it would have done the same.  The ballistics are very similar.. i would call that a wash.  I'm not sure about the field strip part.  I can do a simple ar field strip, to fix a jamb, very quickly, without much trouble.  Of course, mine are semi ar's, not fully auto m16s.  I have an sks, but not an ak, so can't really compare the field strip contest.  ..and i agree.. had the guy held the ak properly, in fully auto mode, it would have done better.  Here's my solution to the dilemma:  Have both!  That way whichever cartridge is more available, you will have a good rifle to shoot them with.   :Big Grin:

----------


## usfan

> They can get you a start and I have heard the laser jobs are awesome!
> Before they had those they had barrel inserts that you lined your cross hairs with. Good enough to put you on paper @ 50-100 yards but that was about it.


With bolts you can remove them, then back up a bit as you sight through the barrel until you see a small area or dot.  Then you can adjust the scope to that spot.. it's a fairly quick & dirty way to sight in, & absolutely quiet.  Autos or levers don't work that way, though.  It helps to have some kind of gun vise or firm stand for that.  If you have a good rest or shooting vise, here's another 'quick & dirty' way to sight in the scope with one shot.
1. brace the rifle as much as possible, or have it in a fixed shooting rest.
2. focus on the bullseye & fire one shot.
3. clamp the rifle in the rest, and adjust so the crosshairs are on the bullseye.
4. adjust the scope to move the crosshairs to the actual shot.

That will usually get you close enough.  Of course, it is more fun to shoot more shots, & tweak the scope to the middle of the groups.  But if ammo is in short supply, & you want to limit the shots fired, this is a decent way to sight in.  Making sure the first shot is stable is the hard part.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> They can get you a start and I have heard the laser jobs are awesome!
> 
> http://www.cabelas.com/category/Bore.../103924980.uts
> 
> Before they had those they had barrel inserts that you lined your cross hairs with. Good enough to put you on paper @ 50-100 yards but that was about it.


You get what you pay for.  Mine was like this Cabela one: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunti...3Bcat103924980

I bought it off Amazon:  
http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-74010...oresight+laser

Hoping Bushnell will come through with either a fix or a replacement.


On the Cabela website,the green LASER boresighter would easily go to 100 yards if not further.   My Bushnell, if it can be fixed, probably wouldn't be much good past 25 yards, maybe 50 _in dim light_ such as inside a big box or near dawn or dusk.  Good enough to get a rough sighting on a scope before heading to the range and spending a buck a pop X 3  a few times to do the same thing.

----------


## Archer

Ballistics? The AK is far superior in some ways and the M16 in others. 

I assure you that at that short of a range the 47 would devastate the 16 every time if it were apples to apples where the shooters were concerned!

It is a matter of preference but here is a video of what an Ak stripping is... Utter simplicity:


and the 16:

----------


## Archer

> You get what you pay for.  Mine was like this Cabela one: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunti...3Bcat103924980
> 
> I bought it off Amazon:  
> http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-74010...oresight+laser
> 
> Hoping Bushnell will come through with either a fix or a replacement.
> 
> 
> On the Cabela website,the green LASER boresighter would easily go to 100 yards if not further.   My Bushnell, if it can be fixed, probably wouldn't be much good past 25 yards, maybe 50 _in dim light_ such as inside a big box or near dawn or dusk.  Good enough to get a rough sighting on a scope before heading to the range and spending a buck a pop X 3  a few times to do the same thing.


100 yards is all you really need for deer hunting in the woods.

----------


## Roadmaster

> 100 yards is all you really need for deer hunting in the woods.


 Yep the deer are on the move here after the first frost. Three ran out in front of me yesterday morning. From now until it's over people need to slow down on the roads.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> sorry, rocky.. i've never used a boresight.. sounds like a good idea, & I have removed the bolt & done the preliminary sighting through the barrel, but a laser bore sight sounds like a good idea, & should be cheap & easy to use.


Thanks.  Most of my long arms don't allow that method, but the Mosin Nagant certainly does.  I've also been thinking about a scope for it, but most seem to require both a modification to the bolt handle and the "minor gunsmithing" needed to install a rail.  The adventure and learning to do it, not to mention the results, are enticing, but I'm also a bit enamored with the retro look of the original. 

In the end, I think I'll wait until I've shot it a few times, maybe kill a few hogs with it, before deciding whether to mod it, buy another one and mod that or simply buy a scoped rifle in .308 or larger.

----------

usfan (10-27-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> 100 yards is all you really need for deer hunting in the woods.


Agreed.  As mentioned in a discussion with @Perianne, it's good to shoot a few times at 200 yards or further using the 100 yard sight setting just to see how it performs and what kind of vertical adjustment or Kentucky windage would be needed.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

After a discussion today on handguns, I noticed the line of black powder handguns offered online.  When in the military I once built a single-shot pistol from a kit and have hunted with my .54 caliber Hawkins.  The barrel is rifled and shoots a one ounce ball of lead accurately to 100 yards.  Even if it is moving slow compared to modern firearms, getting hit by the equivalent of a large fishing weight is sure to knock most critters and varmints off their feet:




There are several choices offered in black powder handguns.  I was partial to the 1851 Navy Colt in .44 caliber although the .36 caliber is more common.  I liked the extra heft.   While the 1858 and 1860 Army Colts are also very popular, this was my favorite:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-FR18512


For those who live in a free country like rural Texas, black powder arms make great additions to any 4th of July party.  Load it up with powder and toilet paper for a fun noisemaker!

----------

usfan (10-29-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Hanging up weapons exposes them to dust and corrosion, not to mention misuse, but it's a viable option for those under the right circumstances.

Most of my guns are either hidden or stored.  I do have my Mameluke sword and a commemorative Ka-Bar on display (my personal Ka-Bar is next to my recliner).   I made the display pieces using cedar picket fencing and spent 7.62 NATO cartridges.   The results are shown below.  I'm thinking of doing a similar thing with both my Mosin Nagant and SKS but using the appropriate spent cartridges for holders. 

Does anyone else have any ideas or projects they've used to display weapons?

----------

Perianne (10-29-2013)

----------


## Archer

> Hanging up weapons exposes them to dust and corrosion, not to mention misuse, but it's a viable option for those under the right circumstances.
> 
> Most of my guns are either hidden or stored.  I do have my Mameluke sword and a commemorative Ka-Bar on display (my personal Ka-Bar is next to my recliner).   I made the display pieces using cedar picket fencing and spent 7.62 NATO cartridges.   The results are shown below.  I'm thinking of doing a similar thing with both my Mosin Nagant and SKS but using the appropriate spent cartridges for holders. 
> 
> Does anyone else have any ideas or projects they've used to display weapons?


I love the skylight.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I love the skylight.


No skylight. It's a Cathedral ceiling over the dining room table.

----------


## usfan

> Well, i've resisted as long as i could.. & i'm desperate for trin's approval, so i broke down & bought a judge today.. it will come to  my ffl in a week or so.  It's shipping from ky.  Here it is:


Well, it came today, so i had to go to the range & try it out.  I had already bought some different 410 shotshells, & some 45 colt rounds.  But i had a few casings, so loaded up a few of my own.  The reloads have a bit more punch than the cowboy loads i bought, but not as much as some potent hornadies i also picked up.  I had to check on a paint sprayer in a nearby town, so dropped by the range, since it was on the way...   :Smile: 

I was quite impressed.  i've shot a judge before, but it was a 2" bbl.  This one is 6.5"  It shoots very high, & the sights aren't adjustable, so i'll have to think about that.  The 410 part is pretty cool.  at 20', #9 shot decimated a can.  I also tried 6, 4, & 4 buck.  ..all pretty good for their intended purpose.  When i got home, i loaded up a few 410s with 00 buck.  I might get to try those tomorrow.  I can get 4 shot balls in the 2.5" case, & 5 in the 3".  Those are real easy to load, too.. don't really need a press.  Trin should try reloading  a few for her judge.  Of course, if i don't come back tomorrow, she might want to reconsider..   :Thinking:

----------

Max Rockatansky (10-31-2013)

----------


## Archer

> No skylight. It's a Cathedral ceiling over the dining room table.


A well crafted modular I presume? Looks good. Mine is a not so well crafted modular but I am upgrading it. There again mine was a deal and a half.

----------


## Perianne

> There again mine was a deal and a half.


Is that 1.5 x a good deal?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> A well crafted modular I presume? Looks good. Mine is a not so well crafted modular but I am upgrading it. There again mine was a deal and a half.


No, just a Texas home.  The bed room is the same way.   High ceilings create cooler rooms.   The cathedral ceiling would be too pricey for the entire house, so the original owner only had it in the dining room and the master bedroom.   I guess he wasn't into mirrors.  :Big Grin:  ....but the fan is nice.

----------


## Archer

> No, just a Texas home.  The bed room is the same way.   High ceilings create cooler rooms.   The cathedral ceiling would be too pricey for the entire house, so the original owner only had it in the dining room and the master bedroom.   I guess he wasn't into mirrors.  ....but the fan is nice.


I was looking at the central support beam. Nice house though. I have modded the crap out of my home (I am an Uber Geek and I mod my home I do not renovate) and still have a bit to do.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I was looking at the central support beam. Nice house though. I have modded the crap out of my home (I am an Uber Geek and I mod my home I do not renovate) and still have a bit to do.


I renovated most of mine last year.  Redesigned the kitchen, painted and new flooring except for one guest room, the master bedroom and master bath.  Once I finish off paying for the current stuff (I did most of it myself except for the flooring) then I'll work on the remainder.  I plan on being here for at least another 7 years if not through most of my retirement.

----------


## Archer

> I renovated most of mine last year.  Redesigned the kitchen, painted and new flooring except for one guest room, the master bedroom and master bath.  Once I finish off paying for the current stuff (I did most of it myself except for the flooring) then I'll work on the remainder.  I plan on being here for at least another 7 years if not through most of my retirement.


My issue with the living room is they put in pre wall papered sheet-rock and I love the ease of cleaning. They just put those freaking strips up!

So my line of thinking is replace the molding and just put my hardwood flooring down.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> My issue with the living room is they put in pre wall papered sheet-rock and I love the ease of cleaning. They just put those freaking strips up!
> 
> So my line of thinking is replace the molding and just put my hardwood flooring down.


Molding is relatively easy to replace.   I did it myself and saved enough money to pay for the nail gun which I used braids to attach the base molding after the flooring was installed.

I have pets and chose vinyl planking for flooring.  It has a 25 year warranty.  Good stuff.  I love real wood floors, but they are subject to water damage and require waxing and care.  I clean my floor with a Roomba and the occasional mop.

----------


## usfan

speaking of  shotguns, if anyone would like to contribute to the 'get poor usfan a new tactical shotgun' fund, here's one i'd like:   :Big Grin: 



it's only $2400.. if everyone on the forum donated $100, i think i could get it!   :Laughing7: 


We were speaking of shotguns, weren't we.. oh, yeah, that was the OTHER gun thread..    :Smile: 


http://www.srmarms.com/

----------


## Archer

> speaking of  shotguns, if anyone would like to contribute to the 'get poor usfan a new tactical shotgun' fund, here's one i'd like:  
> 
> 
> 
> it's only $2400.. if everyone on the forum donated $100, i think i could get it!  
> 
> 
> We were speaking of shotguns, weren't we.. oh, yeah, that was the OTHER gun thread..   
> 
> ...


Naahhhhh


or

----------


## usfan

I would probably get a kel tec ksg, if i could find one.  But they are as hard to get as their sub 2k carbines, or the 22mag rifle & pistol.

but that srm shotgun is pretty cool.. 16 rounds in a rotary magazine.. very low profile.  I have absolutely no use for one, which is why i need to get it!!   :Big Grin: 

I already have ~ 5 12 ga shotguns.. pumps, O/U, autos.. If i wanted to get one, i should sell the others off, first.  Then, get a good berretta or benelli auto, a browning O/U, & a mossberg pump for HD.  But then i'd have to sell my browning a5.. or the ithaca feather light pump..  that will never do.  So i'll save my money, or do some side jobs, or not eat for a few months.. then i can get it!   :Big Grin: 

j/k.. i'm too cheap to spend that much for a shotgun, which is why i don't already have the benelli, beretta, or the browning.. no b-guns for my wallet.  The kel tec ksg lists for ~ $700, iirc.. i could swing that, if i ever found one.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

The problem I have with the SRM is your inability to do a tactical reload. You either shoot the magazine empty or end up discarding perfectly good rounds. That is why I am so fond of guns like my Mossberg 590. I can fire a couple of rounds and if I am behind cover, pop a couple more into the magazine to top it off.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I would probably get a kel tec ksg, if i could find one.  But they are as hard to get as their sub 2k carbines, or the 22mag rifle & pistol.
> 
> but that srm shotgun is pretty cool.. 16 rounds in a rotary magazine.. very low profile.  I have absolutely no use for one, which is why i need to get it!!  
> 
> I already have ~ 5 12 ga shotguns.. pumps, O/U, autos.. If i wanted to get one, i should sell the others off, first.  Then, get a good berretta or benelli auto, a browning O/U, & a mossberg pump for HD.  But then i'd have to sell my browning a5.. or the ithaca feather light pump..  that will never do.  So i'll save my money, or do some side jobs, or not eat for a few months.. then i can get it!  
> 
> j/k.. i'm too cheap to spend that much for a shotgun, which is why i don't already have the benelli, beretta, or the browning.. no b-guns for my wallet.  The kel tec ksg lists for ~ $700, iirc.. i could swing that, if i ever found one.


It does seem to be quite a well-made shotgun.  This article says you get a lot of bang for your buck:  http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/?p=13696

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The problem I have with the SRM is your inability to do a tactical reload. You either shoot the magazine empty or end up discarding perfectly good rounds. That is why I am so fond of guns like my Mossberg 590. I can fire a couple of rounds and if I am behind cover, pop a couple more into the magazine to top it off.


That would, indeed, be problematic.  I have the standard Mossberg 500 in camo with sling for hunting.  Only holds 5 shells, but I'm happy with it.

----------


## Perianne



----------

Max Rockatansky (11-01-2013),usfan (11-01-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky



----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> That would, indeed, be problematic.  I have the standard Mossberg 500 in camo with sling for hunting.  Only holds 5 shells, but I'm happy with it.


The 500 is an excellent shotgun.

The 590 is my working shotgun. The 500 is my home defense shotgun.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The 500 is an excellent shotgun.
> 
> The 590 is my working shotgun. The 500 is my home defense shotgun.


Is the 590 personally owned?   It's always good to have solid, reliable equipment regardless if one's employer owns it or it's personal equipment.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

> Is the 590 personally owned?   It's always good to have solid, reliable equipment regardless if one's employer owns it or it's personal equipment.


Yes. I have had it since the mid 80s.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Just read about this free App in "American Hunter":  Where to shoot.

Here's the website: http://wheretoshoot.org/index2.cfm

The app comes in both Apple and Android.  

It's not bad.  Gives location, phone number, facility information and website info if there is one.

----------

Perianne (11-01-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got home today and on my front porch, along with a lot of other mail, were two packages.  One was my Konus 20-60X80 spotting scope and the other my 1851 Navy .44.  Sorry for the crappy picture of both the Konus and the pistol.

----------

usfan (11-02-2013)

----------


## usfan

cool!  I actually got my 45 carbine 'upper' for a 1911 yesterday.  Of course i had to take it to the range.   :Big Grin:   It is a strange feeling hitting a can sized target from 100 yds with a 45acp..  I loaded up some +p 45s, & they have some punch to them out of the carbine barrel.  It might be equivalent to a 357 lever rifle.  It takes about 30 seconds (less with practice) to go from pistol to carbine with this setup.  It only has a small rail at the back.. nothing up front.  I put on some flip up sights from an ar on it, but they are only about 6" apart, so accuracy can only improve with better sights.  I'm thinking of a red dot, or something with little magnification, but i'm an iron sights kind of guy, so i might just put on some fixed.  But i'll need a picatinny rail on the front part.. might have to buy the manufacturer's accessory.

That black powder gun is a good idea.. it's not that hard to make your own black powder, in a pinch, nor cast some lead bullets.  I just don't need to expand this hobby anymore!   :Bom: 

edit:  this is what the carbine looks like, with no sights:


The back rail is adequate for a rear sight, but i'll need to get a rail for the front.. unless i just go with the red dot.. decisions, decisions..

----------

Max Rockatansky (11-03-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Looks like fun!

Where did you order or buy it from?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I just happened across this on the local news.  A "smart rifle" which can turn a non-shooter into a expert shooter at 1,200 yards in one lesson.  As the video and text reports note, the anti-gun advocates are a bit upset about it regardless of the $22K+ cost per rifle.   The report also noted that Texas leads the country in concealed carry permits with 1.2 million new ones per year. 

Good video report along with article:
http://www.wfaa.com/news/business/Sm...230153991.html



> The first 500 rifles went on sale this January, featuring the Smart Rifle's brains in a high-tech scope. Rotation of the earth, spin drift, temperature, humidity, barometric pressure, uphill or downhill angles, and moving targets up to 10 miles per hour –– almost every variable is calculated by computer.
> 
> “The only thing the shooter has to do is make a wind call,” Smith said. “It can hit a target out to 1,200 yards.”
> 
> From there, the info is displayed on an iPad through WiFi. The rifle comes with both. Using a fighter jet's target-locking system, the shooter sets his r tag, match up the crosshairs and fire.
> 
> Experienced marksmen can forget the math. For amateurs, the learning curve just got shorter.
> 
> “This system really allows a shooter who doesn't have a tremendous amount of time in their schedule to get out and be proficient right away at shooting at long distances,” Smith said.
> ...

----------


## usfan

> Looks like fun!
> 
> Where did you order or buy it from?


the carbine was made by mech tech in montana.. i ordered it from pop guns in indiana.. a mail order distributor.  ~ $340 shipped

----------


## usfan

> I just happened across this on the local news.  A "smart rifle" which can turn a non-shooter into a expert shooter at 1,200 yards in one lesson.  As the video and text reports note, the anti-gun advocates are a bit upset about it regardless of the $22K+ cost per rifle.   The report also noted that Texas leads the country in concealed carry permits with 1.2 million new ones per year. 
> 
> Good video report along with article:
> http://www.wfaa.com/news/business/Sm...230153991.html


Pretty interesting.  I wouldn't mind having a rifle that could shoot to 1200 yds!  But i don't think i'd shell out $22k for it..   :EEK!:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Pretty interesting.  I wouldn't mind having a rifle that could shoot to 1200 yds!  But i don't think i'd shell out $22k for it..


Agreed on both counts.  That's more than I have in my piggy bank at the moment.

https://tracking-point.com/precision-guided-firearms

----------


## Max Rockatansky

After an email, I bought a couple of extra mags for my Mini-14 on MidwayUSA today and saw they had a good price on Remington .22LR at $59.99 for a bucket of 1400 rounds.  With S&H, that came to 0.56 cents per round.  It's on back order, but I figured I'd get in while the getting was good.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/621...bucket-of-1400

----------

Perianne (11-10-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got home today and was pleasantly surprised to see two packages for me.  One was the two 20-round Ruger Mini-14 mags I'd ordered off MidwayUSA.  It was a compromise; I'd really been eyeing the Windham SRC 5.56 on Cheaperthandirt, but couldn't really justify the cost since I have a perfectly good Mini-14 with a great scope and both a 30 round and 5 round magazine.  So I decided to go with spending $60 on two factory-quality additional mags.  

Another reason not to spend the money on the Windham is because I'm still looking at buying a .357 revolver.  I used to have a S&W 686 (the ex took it) and that's what I'd like to have again.  They're very pricey though so I was also looking at Ruger's GP100 and SP101.   All are excellent wheelguns, but the Smith is the champ.   Sticking with my Mini-14 allows me more latitude in going with the S&W 686 if that's the way I decide to go.  

The second surprise was from Bushnell; they stuck by their warranty agreement.   A month or so ago I'd purchased a Bushnell laser boresighter (about $30), but it turned out to have a flaw in the projection.  Instead of a dot, it projected a slash.  I called them from the number on their website.  The guy answering took my info and mailing address.  They sent a full replacement.  It works perfectly.

----------

Perianne (11-16-2013),usfan (11-16-2013)

----------


## usfan

I put on a holographic sight on the mech tech 45 carbine.  I took it out yesterday on the way home from work, & put a few mags through it.  Very cool!  This one has a red or green dot & you adjust it like a scope.  No magnification, & you keep both eyes open.  It is still quite strange hitting can sized targets from 100 yds with 45 acp.  I won't need the longer picatinny rail, & it's smaller & lighter than a scope.  Magnification isn't really needed with a pistol caliber carbine.. only ~ 100 yds max anyway.. most use would be less.  This would be a fine hd weapon, with the short barrel.  Not loud.. the long barrel muffles the report, too.

Here's a pic of what they look like mounted:



Much better & easier than iron sights, but if you're battery is dead, you're in trouble.. better have some spares or practice barrel sighting.  I may try this on the ar, too.. but with it's better range, & my eyesight, a scope would probably be better.  I've got a good but big scope on my windham ar, with back up iron flip up sights, & will probably keep that for the most versatility.  But i'll probably try out these holo sights.. i like the simplicity & accuracy.. very easy & good in low light, too.

----------

Max Rockatansky (11-16-2013)

----------


## countryboy

> I put on a holographic sight on the mech tech 45 carbine.  I took it out yesterday on the way home from work, & put a few mags through it.  Very cool!  This one has a red or green dot & you adjust it like a scope.  No magnification, & you keep both eyes open.  It is still quite strange hitting can sized targets from 100 yds with 45 acp.  I won't need the longer picatinny rail, & it's smaller & lighter than a scope.  Magnification isn't really needed with a pistol caliber carbine.. only ~ 100 yds max anyway.. most use would be less.  This would be a fine hd weapon, with the short barrel.  Not loud.. the long barrel muffles the report, too.
> 
> Here's a pic of what they look like mounted:
> 
> 
> 
> Much better & easier than iron sights, but if you're battery is dead, you're in trouble.. better have some spares or practice barrel sighting.  I may try this on the ar, too.. but with it's better range, & my eyesight, a scope would probably be better.  I've got a good but big scope on my windham ar, with back up iron flip up sights, & will probably keep that for the most versatility.  But i'll probably try out these holo sights.. i like the simplicity & accuracy.. very easy & good in low light, too.


Very interesting. What's one of them gadgets run?

----------


## usfan

+1 on the 357, rocky.. great choice.  between your sks, the 357, your mini-14.. black powder pistol.. you've got a nice collection going, & a practical set of firearms.

I saw an ad for the ruger gp100 a few days back.. can't remember where.. it was ~ $500.. not a  bad price i thought.  I have it in 6" SS, & it is a very fine pistol.  ..built like a tank.  But you won't go wrong with the 686, either.. i'm partial to old smiths.  I've got my dad's old 38spl & k22 masterpiece.  I used to hunt squirrels in missouri with the 22.. very accurate, beautiful pistol.  a 1940's model, so i don't take it squirrel hunting much anymore.  

I saw a pic of the carbon ar on windham's site.. here is the one i got earlier this year:


It's a flat top, with no sights, but i put on some flip ups & a scope between them.  I did the quick detach scope mounts, & they have stayed reasonably accurate.  i won't win any shooting contests, but i probably wouldn't anyway.  Functional accuracy is what i'm after, both from the scope & sights.  I have a fancier ar.. a dpms lower & bushie upper, with heavy 20" varmint barrel.  But it is no more accurate than the windham, & a lot heavier & longer.  I might swap it out for something else.. but probably not.  I might get out to the range again, this pm.. or i might just get some reloading in.  I've got some 45 colt brass piling up.


I'll have to save this pic.. it might be useful to scare off some pesky liberals   :Laughing7:

----------


## usfan

> Very interesting. What's one of them gadgets run?


pretty cheap..  $30 shipped from amazon.  They have them on ebay, too, but there is a pretty nice one on sale at amazon.. i'll look up the link..

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Arms-...4638093&sr=1-1

This one is red dot only, but it probably a better made unit.  I got this & a green/red dot in another brand.  Some people say the greens are better in bright light.  They just put a dot on the little glass.. it's not a laser dot to the target.  But target acquisition is fast, & visibility is good.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I put on a holographic sight on the mech tech 45 carbine.  I took it out yesterday on the way home from work, & put a few mags through it.  Very cool!  This one has a red or green dot & you adjust it like a scope.  No magnification, & you keep both eyes open.  It is still quite strange hitting can sized targets from 100 yds with 45 acp.  I won't need the longer picatinny rail, & it's smaller & lighter than a scope.  Magnification isn't really needed with a pistol caliber carbine.. only ~ 100 yds max anyway.. most use would be less.  This would be a fine hd weapon, with the short barrel.  Not loud.. the long barrel muffles the report, too.
> 
> Here's a pic of what they look like mounted:
> 
> 
> 
> Much better & easier than iron sights, but if you're battery is dead, you're in trouble.. better have some spares or practice barrel sighting.  I may try this on the ar, too.. but with it's better range, & my eyesight, a scope would probably be better.  I've got a good but big scope on my windham ar, with back up iron flip up sights, & will probably keep that for the most versatility.  But i'll probably try out these holo sights.. i like the simplicity & accuracy.. very easy & good in low light, too.



Beautiful rig.  Agreed about the batteries.    I was looking at the flat top SRC myself.  Much more practical and versatile than the carry handle model.

A 4X scope and a bore sight laser as back up can be had for about $100.   http://www.midwayusa.com/find?dimensionids=15314

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got an email today from MidwayUSA having a Black Friday sale.  Lots of good stuff, but the only thing I was really interested in was a laser range finder.  They had one on sale for $144, but in the end, I passed on it.  

What I did buy was about $50 worth of snap caps:  .45, 9mm and, on clearance, 7.62x54.

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

Snap caps are good. They will prevent firing pin over travel.

Max, if you are looking for an excellent electro-optical sight, but don't want to pay for an Aimpoint or EoTech, take a look at this one, the Lucid HD7, Gen III.

LINK

Ignore the MSRP. Avilable on Amazon for 189.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Snap caps are good. They will prevent firing pin over travel.
> 
> Max, if you are looking for an excellent electro-optical sight, but don't want to pay for an Aimpoint or EoTech, take a look at this one, the Lucid HD7, Gen III.
> 
> LINK
> 
> Ignore the MSRP. Avilable on Amazon for 189.


Nice sight.  Thanks for the reference.

A 1000 hours of battery life on a single AA battery is very good even though I tend to be skittish of battery operated equipment.   Both the duration and the commonality of the battery type make it much more attractive.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

More Thanksgiving Day specials.

From Cheaper than Dirt.   Arsenal refinished Mosin Nagant with accessories for $129.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/produ...11%2F28%2F2013


From Cabelas, a Nikon Aculon 550 yard range finder for $119
http://www.cabelas.com/product/NIKON...w&gclsrc=aw.ds


I'm interested in both, but primarily the range finder, but I've never used one.   Anyone familiar with them and have advice?

----------


## Pooltablerepairman

Get one with a greater range than you are likely to be engaging targets. Remember when they say a rangefinder is good for 500 yards, they are talking about reflective targets. Against nonreflective targets it may be effective to little more than half that.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Get one with a greater range than you are likely to be engaging targets. Remember when they say a rangefinder is good for 500 yards, they are talking about reflective targets. Against nonreflective targets it may be effective to little more than half that.


Thanks for the tip.  I'd like it for bow hunting and 200-300 range shooting targets, but would be interested in being able to shoot 500 yard targets.

How reflective are trees?  Having never used one, I'm guessing, but figured it would be smart to mentally mark the range of objects near where game might appear such as on a trail or food/water source, then set up accordingly.    The old school method is shooting stakes, but a ranger finder would save both on walking and risking scaring off game.

----------


## usfan

I think i'm getting an early present..  been thinking about an auto mag shotgun for a while, & put the old pump out to pasture.  I'm eyeing this one, & am about to pull the trigger..



BTW, classic firearms in NC is having a pretty good holiday sale.. as are a lot of others.  they have a mosin for $90, a chinese sks for $300, & lots of other deals, too.  I've bought from them before & they are straight up.

This shotty is a vepr 12.. kinda like a saiga, but better fit & finish.  I wonder if i can hunt waterfowl with it...    :Thinking:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Sweeet!...but a bit rich for my blood at $1200.   Stick a block of wood in the 5 round magazine limiting it to 3 rounds and you should be good to go, right?

----------


## usfan

> Sweeet!...but a bit rich for my blood at $1200.   Stick a block of wood in the 5 round magazine limiting it to 3 rounds and you should be good to go, right?


I think i've seen 2 round mags.. so that would make it a functional hunting shotgun.  They also have 12 round mags (!), for zombies, i guess.  You can rest the mags on the ground from a standing position while shooting, with them.   :Smile: 

Anyway, it is a bit much, but i've been eyeing over a tactical shotty for a while, & decided to go with the auto mags.  I already have a good pump in a 5+1, but this one, with the folder, will be even more compact, & they have a muzzle brake that reduces recoil & muzzle flip.  It will end up being my most expensive shotgun.. and maybe the most expensive firearm.  But i can skip meals for a few months, & not do laundry to save for it.  Maybe i'll take it to the skeet range to try it out.. it would get some funny looks, for sure..   :Big Grin: 

I'll probably put a holo sight on it, & the muzzle brake.. everything else is ready to go out of the box.  It will fire light bird shot, or heavy slugs or buckshot loads.  It is an AK style action, & should be very reliable.  All the reviews have been good.  I think it will be a good purchase.  I'm planning on ordering it tomorrow.  It is on a 'black friday' sale for under $1k.  Now i'll have to reload some of the heavy 12 ga loads.. the trap loads are already cheaper than you can reload for.  but i doubt i use this for trap, much.. maybe some, for fun.

I've seen a bunch of 357 mags out there.. some good prices, lately.  You find one you like yet?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Not yet.  Holidays and such, so I've been busy, but it's the next item on my arsenal list.  I'd still like the 686, but will see what things look like in January/February.

----------


## usfan

I reloaded a few test shells for the 410 with 00 buck.  Very easy. No press.  I've got a hand primer that puts in the new primer, weigh some powder, put a wad over, add 4-5 00 buck, depending on 3" or 2.75.. then press with a dowel & set an overshot card on top.  Drop some cheap elmers glue & seal the edges, or roll crimp, done!  I made some 3" plastic & some 2.75 brass to test a new powder.  Maybe tomorrow i can get to the range & compare them with factory 410 in the judge.  Pretty fast & easy, especially with the price of 410.  I may try the same technique with some 12 ga in the vepr.. but i'm sure it will be more finicky than the 410 revolver.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Anyone have  Mauser K98 or one of the other copies such as those on www.mauser.net? 

American Rifleman occasionally has an ad from them and I was thinking about buying one for fun.  Anyone have both the Mauser and the Mosin/Nagant for comparison?

----------


## Archer

> Anyone have  Mauser K98 or one of the other copies such as those on www.mauser.net? 
> 
> American Rifleman occasionally has an ad from them and I was thinking about buying one for fun.  Anyone have both the Mauser and the Mosin/Nagant for comparison?


I had one (copy) but it was made in 30-06.

----------

Max Rockatansky (03-27-2014)

----------


## hoytmonger

I used to have a nice collection. Hk USP .45ACP, Ruger GP100 .357 mag., Ruger MkII .22LR (5" bbl), Remington 870, Weatherby MkV 7mm mag., Remington 700 30.06, Marlin 1895 .45-70, unfortunately I lost them all in a boating accident in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I had to buy some chicken wire to build a coop and am still in the market for a .357 wheel gun (I looked at Ruger's SP and GP) so I stopped at the local pawn shop prior to Lowe's.  The pawn shop had a Yugoslavian M48 in 8mmx57.  The price looked good and the rifle looked great so I bought it.   :Big Grin:

----------


## QuaseMarco

Why would anyone want to expose their arsenal via the www?

----------


## hoytmonger

> Why would anyone want to expose their arsenal via the www?


How do you know if any of it is true? Maybe no one here even owns a slingshot.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Why would anyone want to expose their arsenal via the www?


Not all are paranoid enough to think Obama is commin' a'knockin' to git their guns.  Besides, I sold all of my other ones to buy this one.   :Big Grin:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got home today with multiple surprises waiting for me.  One was my case of 8X57mm ammo.  HEAVY!!!!  I haven't cracked it open yet, but am anxious to do so.  Even more anxious to go shooting!

Another surprise was a sling for my Mauser (Yugo M-48 really, but same design).  I didn't know how to attack this particular sling set up, but searched Youtube.  A great resource!  Anyone here who wants to help others, might consider doing a video yourself.  It doesn't matter the topic; cooking, canning, slings, making a fire, etc.

This is the video I used:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got home today with multiple surprises waiting for me.  One was my case of 8X57mm ammo.  HEAVY!!!!  I haven't cracked it open yet, but am anxious to do so.  Even more anxious to go shooting!

Another surprise was a sling for my Mauser (Yugo M-48 really, but same design).  I didn't know how to attack this particular sling set up, but searched Youtube.  A great resource!  Anyone here who wants to help others, might consider doing a video yourself.  It doesn't matter the topic; cooking, canning, slings, making a fire, etc.

This is the new sling and ammo case:


This is the video I used:

----------

Toefoot (04-01-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Does everyone here know how to use a sling for shooting?  Other than carrying a rifle/shotgun, that is.

----------


## hoytmonger

> Does everyone here know how to use a sling for shooting?  Other than carrying a rifle/shotgun, that is.


http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index....a_carry_strap/

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-01-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index....a_carry_strap/


That's one method.  I use the "hasty" sling, just entwining my arm around the sling then sliding my non-shooting hand either fore or aft along the bottom of the rifle to adjust tension for steadying my shot.  

Prone or kneeling works best for me.

----------


## Toefoot

If you are in the hunt for a Milsurp please visit this site. It tracks cost and location of many surplus rifles. I great tool for you do not over pay.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...63934634,d.b2I

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-01-2014),Perianne (04-01-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> If you are in the hunt for a Milsurp please visit this site. It tracks cost and location of many surplus rifles. I great tool for you do not over pay.
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...63934634,d.b2I


That's a very interesting link, Toefoot.  Thanks!

----------

Toefoot (04-01-2014)

----------


## Archer

The sling on an AK or an AR can be adjusted for one handed rapid fire (over the shoulder) while the other hand is free to swap clips of take aim with a good handgun.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> The sling on an AK or an AR can be adjusted for one handed rapid fire (over the shoulder) while the other hand is free to swap clips of take aim with a good handgun.


I've seen some great tactical slings, one-point slings and such.   Since the odds of me engaging in a firefight are slim and none, my focus with slings is primarily ease of carry and accuracy of shooting.

----------


## Archer

> I've seen some great tactical slings, one-point slings and such.   Since the odds of me engaging in a firefight are slim and none, my focus with slings is primarily ease of carry and accuracy of shooting.


Hey it is great target practice!

----------


## ChoppedLiver

> The sling on an AK or an AR can be adjusted for one handed rapid fire (over the shoulder) while the other hand is free to swap clips of take aim with a good handgun.


Can it be adjusted such that the AR/AK sling allows the firearm to be shot while positioning it at a 90 degree (left or right) so it looks cool to shoot like the thug gangsters in the movies shoot their handguns?

 :Cool:

----------


## Archer

> Can it be adjusted such that the AR/AK sling allows the firearm to be shot while positioning it at a 90 degree (left or right) so it looks cool to shoot like the thug gangsters in the movies shoot their handguns?


I doubt it. The purpose is resistance. Firing the weapon level by pulling down on the gun while getting resistance from the sling. this limits rise.

----------


## ChoppedLiver

> I doubt it. The purpose is resistance. Firing the weapon level by pulling down on the gun while getting resistance from the sling. this limits rise.


But it doesn't look "cool".

 :Cool:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> But it doesn't look "cool".


I doubt the target cares how "cool" it looks if the shooter hits it.

----------


## ChoppedLiver

But shooting this way...

Attachment 3272

...is just sooooooooooo cool to the thug shooter.
Sights and slings on the side of the firearm would make them better shooters, doncha think?

 :Cool:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> But shooting this way...
> 
> Attachment 3272
> 
> ...is just sooooooooooo cool to the thug shooter.


You are free to shoot that way.  I prefer either the Weaver or Isosceles stance.

----------


## Toefoot

lol...well if you are shooting at me I prefer you use this method.




> But shooting this way...
> 
> Attachment 3272
> 
> ...is just sooooooooooo cool to the thug shooter.
> Sights and slings on the side of the firearm would make them better shooters, doncha think?

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-01-2014)

----------


## QuaseMarco

It's awful nice to talk about guns but don't you think you're putting yourself in the front line for gun confiscation when it comes?

----------


## QuaseMarco

> But shooting this way...
> 
> Attachment 3272
> 
> ...is just sooooooooooo cool to the thug shooter.
> Sights and slings on the side of the firearm would make them better shooters, doncha think?


Do not like it. It looks gangbanger style.

----------


## ChoppedLiver

> It's awful nice to talk about guns but don't you think you're putting yourself in the front line for gun confiscation when it comes?


I hope so. That's why we keep them clean and ready.

 :Cool:

----------


## ChoppedLiver

> Do not like it. It looks gangbanger style.


You catch on quick, eh?

 :Cool:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> It's awful nice to talk about guns but don't you think you're putting yourself in the front line for gun confiscation when it comes?


My guns would have all be sold the week before that happens.

----------


## QuaseMarco

> My guns would have all be sold the week before that happens.


Jeeez ..... then what's the sense of having them if not for protection against criminals and tyranny?

----------


## 007

Time to polish up the sword skills, once the criminals are empowered!!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Jeeez ..... then what's the sense of having them if not for protection against criminals and tyranny?


I'm confident I'll be protected against criminals and tyranny.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

One of my favorite movies is "We Were Soldiers".  One of my favorite scenes is this one where Col. Moore tries to convince SgtMaj to arm himself with an  M-16 before going into combat:

*Lt. Colonel Hal Moore:* _I think you oughta get yourself an M-16._
*Sergeant Major Basil Plumley:* _Sir, if the time comes I need one, there'll be plenty lying on the ground.


_This is my same philosophy to why I don't need to spend a small fortune on AR-15s, dozens of cases of ammo, smoke grenades and the like.  Every American, IMO, should know how to handle a weapon safely and how to use it.   They don't have to own one although it is recommended.

----------

Archer (04-01-2014)

----------


## usfan

> Jeeez ..... then what's the sense of having them if not for protection against criminals and tyranny?


It was a juridical answer.. the official version for any bureaucratic questioners.   :Smile: 




> Got home today with multiple surprises waiting for me.  One was my case of 8X57mm ammo.  HEAVY!!!!  I haven't cracked it open yet, but am anxious to do so.  Even more anxious to go shooting!
> 
> Another surprise was a sling for my Mauser (Yugo M-48 really, but same design).  I didn't know how to attack this particular sling set up, but searched Youtube.  A great resource!  Anyone here who wants to help others, might consider doing a video yourself.  It doesn't matter the topic; cooking, canning, slings, making a fire, etc.
> 
> This is the new sling and ammo case:
> 
> 
> This is the video I used:


Cool!  Congrats on the new firearm!  I like the old guns.. they are fun to shoot, & usually ammo is cheap in milsurp.  I'm kind of watching for a good ak-47, cheap.. i have an sks, which is a great rifle, but have been wanting a decent ak for a while.. i don't need it, i know.. i don't give my safe queens enough attention as it is.




> I've seen some great tactical slings, one-point slings and such.   Since the odds of me engaging in a firefight are slim and none, my focus with slings is primarily ease of carry and accuracy of shooting.


I've always used a sling when hunting.  I went duck hunting in utah a few yrs back with my son-in-law & his buddy, & they carried their shotguns in their arms.  I had mine slung over my shoulder, & could manage the boat, or push cattails out of the way, or pour a cup of coffee.  I got a 3 pt. sling for an ar once, but don't really care for it.  ..too many straps everywhere.  I got a cheap one point sling from amazon, & it is great.  Easy to carry, drop by your side, & bring to aim point fast without unslinging it.  I put a one point hook on my ar & a tactical shotgun, & that is the ticket for me.    :Thumbsup20: 

I'm a fair shot standing, but prefer a braced or sitting position.  I've tried to use a sling for aiming, but am just used to shooting without one, so it isn't natural for me.  I've done it looped around my front arm, & i can see that it would help stabilize, but you need slack.  For me, a sling is just for easy transport.

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-01-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> It was a juridical answer.. the official version for any bureaucratic questioners.  
> 
> 
> 
> Cool!  Congrats on the new firearm!  I like the old guns.. they are fun to shoot, & usually ammo is cheap in milsurp.  I'm kind of watching for a good ak-47, cheap.. i have an sks, which is a great rifle, but have been wanting a decent ak for a while.. i don't need it, i know.. i don't give my safe queens enough attention as it is.


I used to have a Norinco AK.  Great little shooter.  Had to give it up when I became unemployed after the Cold War ended.   Gave up a Colt Python 4 inch, a Daewoo K2 and several other sweet guns.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Currently looking at different scope mounts for my Mosin and Mauser.  Drilling and tapping are out for me.  I'm looking at the S&K mounts, but am not sure whether to go with Weaver mounts or the S&K mounts.  

Since the S&K mounts sit lower, I'm inclined to go with them.  Besides the height factor, does anyone have any comments on Weaver vs. S&K?

The problem with going with this route is the necessity for a long relief scope.   S&K offers some pistol/long relief.  Anyone have some recommendations there?

http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html

S&K style   http://www.scopemounts.com/insta_files/yugosk.html#top

Weaver style  http://www.scopemounts.com/insta_fil...oweav.html#top

----------


## usfan

> Currently looking at different scope mounts for my Mosin and Mauser.  Drilling and tapping are out for me.  I'm looking at the S&K mounts, but am not sure whether to go with Weaver mounts or the S&K mounts.  
> 
> Since the S&K mounts sit lower, I'm inclined to go with them.  Besides the height factor, does anyone have any comments on Weaver vs. S&K?
> 
> The problem with going with this route is the necessity for a long relief scope.   S&K offers some pistol/long relief.  Anyone have some recommendations there?
> 
> http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
> 
> S&K style   http://www.scopemounts.com/insta_files/yugosk.html#top
> ...


My son in law put a scope on his mosin.  He didn't want to drill it or modify the original, so he got a rail that replaced the rear folding sight.  You knock out the pin that holds it in place, & put this picatinny rail in its place.  You have to use the long eye relief scope, but it works for him.  He actually got me this setup for my birthday, but i don't have it installed yet.  I haven't read any reviews, nor have i tried any scope on a mosin, but this is what he did, & he's a pretty clever kid.   :Big Grin: 

I took my vepr 12 out & shot some clays with it.  It's not as easy to swing as my o/u, but it was fun shooting it.  With the muzzle break, you hardly feel the recoil, & it's pretty heavy so it soaks it up with that, too.  I shot a few 00 buck through it also.. a bit more kick with those, but imo, neither of those loads has the recoil of the mosin 54r!  I got this around last thanksgiving, as they had it on sale for $1k shipped.  I thought it was a good deal, & i had been wanting to pick up a tactical shotgun for years.  But last week, they have it on sale again, but this time $800!  Must be the russians trying to sell as much as they can before all the sanctions kick in.    :Cool20:   ..either that or they are hoping for an insurrection in the us & are trying to arm the populace for the revolution!   :Laughing7:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> My son in law put a scope on his mosin.  He didn't want to drill it or modify the original, so he got a rail that replaced the rear folding sight.  You knock out the pin that holds it in place, & put this picatinny rail in its place.  You have to use the long eye relief scope, but it works for him.  He actually got me this setup for my birthday, but i don't have it installed yet.  I haven't read any reviews, nor have i tried any scope on a mosin, but this is what he did, & he's a pretty clever kid.  
> 
> I took my vepr 12 out & shot some clays with it.  It's not as easy to swing as my o/u, but it was fun shooting it.  With the muzzle break, you hardly feel the recoil, & it's pretty heavy so it soaks it up with that, too.  I shot a few 00 buck through it also.. a bit more kick with those, but imo, neither of those loads has the recoil of the mosin 54r!  I got this around last thanksgiving, as they had it on sale for $1k shipped.  I thought it was a good deal, & i had been wanting to pick up a tactical shotgun for years.  But last week, they have it on sale again, but this time $800!  Must be the russians trying to sell as much as they can before all the sanctions kick in.     ..either that or they are hoping for an insurrection in the us & are trying to arm the populace for the revolution!


Replacing or mounting on top of the rear elevated sight is the same system I'm looking at.  The rifle has the capability of shooting accurately out to 500+ yards but with my eyesight going, it's hard to see out that far, hence the desire for a scope.  For hog hunting, 200-300 yards would be the max range I'd plan on using.  

Has your SIL had a chance to site in his Mosin?  Any complaints on the system he has?  Make and model of mount and scope? 

The Vepr 12 looks like a fun shotgun!  I'd never been a fan of sem-auto shotguns because of jamming (I prefer pump), but it looks like tech has solved those problems.    

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...pr-12-shotgun/

----------


## usfan

> Replacing or mounting on top of the rear elevated sight is the same system I'm looking at.  The rifle has the capability of shooting accurately out to 500+ yards but with my eyesight going, it's hard to see out that far, hence the desire for a scope.  For hog hunting, 200-300 yards would be the max range I'd plan on using.  
> Has your SIL had a chance to site in his Mosin?  Any complaints on the system he has?  Make and model of mount and scope? 
> The Vepr 12 looks like a fun shotgun!  I'd never been a fan of sem-auto shotguns because of jamming (I prefer pump), but it looks like tech has solved those problems.    
> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...pr-12-shotgun/


I haven't heard much details, but he said he liked it, & it worked for him, so i assume he tried it out.  He's got young eyes, though, & probably doesn't even need a scope!  When i get some time, i'll knock out  the pin & try mine out.. i've been wanting to go shoot the chinese mosin carbine again, anyway.  I've been thinking about putting a synthetic stock on it, too.

The vepr is pretty impressive.  when i took it out the other day, it never jammed once.. & that with mostly target loads.  I have a 12 round mag for it, & it is so big i can shoot it while standing & let the mag rest on the ground.   :Smiley ROFLMAO:   ok, well it's not THAT long, nor am i THAT short, but the thing is long.

I've got too much happening with work, houses, wheeling dealing, & old age to get to the range today, or i'd pop the scope on & try it out.     :Grampa:

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-05-2014),Toefoot (04-05-2014)

----------


## Toefoot

Millions of Mosins Nagants have been produced. If you do not have a collectible or rare one...meaning your Mosin Nagant cost $108.00 why the worry?

I have purchased well over a dozen Mosin Nagants and cut down the barrel, Modified the stock, recrowned and mounted scopes. 

So having $300 -350 tied up in a Military grade rifle that is a effective shooter is not going to break the bank and last forever. If mounting a scope on a Mosin is important to you please do it right. Going cheap is not always the best route.

Here are the scope mounts I use, well worth it for accuracy and can mount a modern scope:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...caJT5XqWZ_j1Ig

I have a local welder bend the bolt for me. 

Once done right the simple Mosin will stand toe to toe with any expensive rifle at a fraction of the cost. Make sure you hit your target.

----------

usfan (04-05-2014)

----------


## usfan

You can even buy bolts already bent.. i don't think they are that much.  but the back sight mount is a no drill, easy mod, so that is the main reason for its popularity, i'm sure.

I've got a 1929 mosin with matching #s, & i'll keep it original.  I still like to shoot it, but i'll do the mods with the chinese carbine.. more of a 50s model with few matching #s.

----------

Toefoot (04-05-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Millions of Mosins Nagants have been produced. If you do not have a collectible or rare one...meaning your Mosin Nagant cost $108.00 why the worry?
> 
> I have purchased well over a dozen Mosin Nagants and cut down the barrel, Modified the stock, recrowned and mounted scopes. 
> 
> So having $300 -350 tied up in a Military grade rifle that is a effective shooter is not going to break the bank and last forever. If mounting a scope on a Mosin is important to you please do it right. Going cheap is not always the best route.
> 
> Here are the scope mounts I use, well worth it for accuracy and can mount a modern scope:
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...caJT5XqWZ_j1Ig
> ...


Agreed on doing it right.  OTOH, I like to have the option of pulling off the scope mount and moving to another rifle if I feel the need.  I'm a welder and hadn't thought about bending the Mosin bolt handle myself. I have the equipment to do so.  My Mauser already has a bent bolt so that isn't a problem, but this goes back to the idea of reconversion and moving the mount to another Mauser.

----------

Toefoot (04-05-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Got in from the gym this morning and had a box waiting for me.  It was  Mauser bayonet bought off Ebay.  I'd been pricing them and watched several bids go by.  In the end, I saw a "buy it now" bayonet, scabbard and frog in *mint* condition.  The blade is still covered in cosmoline.  

Last week the sling I'd ordered had arrived and yesterday a *Vism stock riser cheek pad/riser and mag pouch* was waiting for me.   The mag pouch holds a stack of four stripper-clipped rounds (20 rounds total).

The cheek riser was in anticipation of both a scope and to hold the ammo.

----------


## Max Rockatansky



----------


## Max Rockatansky



----------


## Max Rockatansky

Okay, which of the Women of Politics Forums is this?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Here she is in High School:

----------


## gainso

I personally knew Jeff Cooper, Bruce Nelson, Milt Sparks, Mike Harries, and Jim Cirillo.  I know Farnum, Fowler, Hackathorn, Wilson, Dalton, many others of the names in shooting instruction.  I've taken hundreds of animals with ccw guns and loads.  I"m hear to tell you that most of the factory jhp's, in 4" and shorter barrels, do not expand in flesh and blood.  What you see or hear about what the do in water or jello is the bunk.

----------


## gainso

We had a woman win the National Service rifle champs, back in 1999 or so. Julia something. Anyone remember? She kicked everybody's butt, even at  600 yds, with the M16 and the 223 rd, that "are worthless beyond 300m" ( to hear many fools tell it).

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I personally knew Jeff Cooper, Bruce Nelson, Milt Sparks, Mike Harries, and Jim Cirillo.  I know Farnum, Fowler, Hackathorn, Wilson, Dalton, many others of the names in shooting instruction.


Then you should know better.

----------


## Toefoot

Feintein?




> Here she is in High School:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Feinstein?  No.

This is more likely to be Feinstein:

----------


## Max Rockatansky

My kind of ladies:

----------


## gainso

about what, pray tell?  When guns/loads consistently win (as the AR's and 223's DO, all the time) they are a superior tool.  The top hands would not risk the loss of a match on an unreliable piece of gear.  The 223 softpoint is  SO much more effective on animals than 230 gr jhp .45's, that there's simply no comparison, and everyone "knows" that the .45 is so "great", right?  :-)  308 ball is nothing special. It's illegal to hunt deer with in EVERY state.

----------


## Victory

> She's a great doggie, but all she hunts is her food bowl.


Nice TANSTAFL by the way.  I know what it means.  (Heinlein right?)  Anybody ask yet?

Larry Niven had a similar neo-logism:  TANJ = There Ain't no Justice, basically meaning "Dammit!" (not the same as TANSTAFL, though)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Nice TANSTAFL by the way.  I know what it means.  (Heinlein right?)  Anybody ask yet?
> 
> Larry Niven had a similar neo-logism:  TANJ = There Ain't no Justice, basically meaning "Dammit!" (not the same as TANSTAFL, though)


No one's asked, but we do have more than a few Heinlein fans here.

My favorite by Niven was "Evolution in action".

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> about what, pray tell?  When guns/loads consistently win (as the AR's and 223's DO, all the time) they are a superior tool.  The top hands would not risk the loss of a match on an unreliable piece of gear.  The 223 softpoint is  SO much more effective on animals than 230 gr jhp .45's, that there's simply no comparison, and everyone "knows" that the .45 is so "great", right?  :-)  308 ball is nothing special. It's illegal to hunt deer with in EVERY state.


F = MA

Not to mention in the Marine Corps I could hit man-sized targetsnear dead center at 500 yards with iron sights on an M-14, but it was a 50/50 chance whether I'd hit black with the M-16.

While the philosophy of hitting someone between the eyes with a .22 is better than a miss with a .45, I'd rather hit them in the chest with a .45.  

As for hunting, while I've hunted and dropped hogs with 5.56's, if I hadn't hit them in the heart/lungs, they could have run off.  A 30 caliber or larger, such as a 7.62X39/51/54R is much more effective of not only putting them down, but making them stay down even off a bit. 

Tell me the truth; If you had to be hit by one of these, which would be your choice?

----------


## Victory

> No one's asked, but we do have more than a few Heinlein fans here.
> 
> My favorite by Niven was "Evolution in action".


From Oath of Fealty.  Heh.  Niven kicks ass!  Ima hafta read "Ringworld" again.

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-21-2014)

----------


## gainso

so you didn't have today's AR's and match ammo back then, so what? not true of the top hands today. The AR's in 223 OWN the 600 yd line at the NRA matches, and have done so since at least  1997.

if the hits are going to take the same time, or the 22 to the brain is done faster, it's FAR superior to the .45 to the chest. I've had MANY a feral cat, dumped dog, coon, chuck, etc, run off with various .45 ball, lrn, swc's, and jhp hits to the chest. It's nothing special at all.

Many deer hunters will tell you of deer that ran off with 3006, 308, 12 ga slugs, etc hits to the chest.  there's nothing special about  308 ball ammo. It's a solid performer, but I'll take 223 sp's, any day, if they are Nosler Partitions.

One of Heinlein's more quoted lines was "You can only really own what you can carry in your arms, at a dead run". Another was "put your pistol and your boots where you can find them in the dark".   Yes, I AM "salted", btw. It's not just a matter of appearance, from one side and from a distance.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> so you didn't have today's AR's and match ammo back then, so what? not true of the top hands today. The AR's in 223 OWN the 600 yd line at the NRA matches, and have done so since at least  1997.


You are free to believe all you like, but physics is physics.  F = MA

However,  I'm interested in hearing more about why the "223" is the predominant round at NRA matches.  Do you have any links detailing why?  Specifically data on accuracy, power, etc.

Please prove to me why the 5.56mm round is superior at 600 yards than a 7.62mm NATO

----------


## Archer

> You are free to believe all you like, but physics is physics.  F = MA
> 
> However,  I'm interested in hearing more about why the "223" is the predominant round at NRA matches.  Do you have any links detailing why?  Specifically data on accuracy, power, etc.
> 
> Please prove to me why the 5.56mm round is superior at 600 yards than a 7.62mm NATO


Sounds like rhetoric from someone who heard about it.

223 is a decent round but it ain't all that. I will take my daughters 270 any day and my 454? Yeah at close to almost 150 yards I will take my handgun over a damn 223.

----------


## usfan

I like the 223..  i think it is a great all purpose round, & can be used by smaller people (eg, women & young 'uns).  I don't see how it could be more effective than 308 at distance, though..    :Thinking: 

I'd take a ar in 223 as an all purpose weapon for any situation, over a magnum handgun or even big bolt rifle.  30 rnd mags, lighter ammo, accurate to 300yds or more, & enough ballistics to do the job, with a well placed shot.  Followup shots are easier with less recoil.  For any shtf scenario, i'd want my lightweight ar first, then others as backups.  I've got a big 44 mag pistol, & a 44 lever rifle, but neither of those has the range of an ar.  The bullets are huge, too, take up a lot of space, & weigh a lot.

Now, if rocky was my general, & sent me to the top of some hill to snipe or watch, i'd want my 308 in a bolt & big scope.  Or, he could loan me his 50bmg for really long distance shooting!  But if he sent me & archer to reconnoiter in some urban rubble, i'd want my ar to complement archer's 454.  I might have a 357 pistol, too, but i'd definitely want the ar in any action, both for the accuracy & the ease of carrying ammo.  4 mags in a vest pack gives me 150 rounds.. archer would need a wheelbarrow to carry than many 454!   :Big Grin: 

I've got a carbon windham ar with a quick clamp scope mount, & flip up iron sights.  The iron sights can ring a 12" steel target at 100 yds, with regularity.  I need to spend more time shooting it at distance, but with the scope, it is fine for longer distances.  Longer than 300 yds seem impractical for a citizen militia, or a survival scenario, & you're better off with tools for that purpose, like a 50bmg.

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-22-2014)

----------


## gainso

So you're a fool, so what?  The 223 auto will get 3 hits for every one you get with a 454 lever and 5 for every one you get with a 454 pistol.  You IMAGINE yourself as the big super dooper who never misses. Which means that you're NOTHING, cause real shottists know the score.  A  223 autorifle can be very effective, even with "just" an 11.5" barrel, and another 7.5" of silencer makes it sound like a .22 rifle without a "can", using full charge ammo in the 223, now. 

guess what, fools? enemies dont WAIT while you run and get the "ideal" weapon.  All you can have, probably, is the one you always carry, so that one better be the most versatile one. There's NOTHING versatile about a bolt action, or a 454 revolver.  I can take the shorty aR apart for concealment in a pack, in 5 seconds, reassemble and fire it in 10 seconds.  It's got luminous sights, there's laser target designators available. I know you "think" that nobody will attack in the dark, but history shows that everyone is not as stupid as you are.

----------


## Archer

> I like the 223..  i think it is a great all purpose round, & can be used by smaller people (eg, women & young 'uns).  I don't see how it could be more effective than 308 at distance, though..   
> 
> I'd take a ar in 223 as an all purpose weapon for any situation, over a magnum handgun or even big bolt rifle.  30 rnd mags, lighter ammo, accurate to 300yds or more, & enough ballistics to do the job, with a well placed shot.  Followup shots are easier with less recoil.  For any shtf scenario, i'd want my lightweight ar first, then others as backups.  I've got a big 44 mag pistol, & a 44 lever rifle, but neither of those has the range of an ar.  The bullets are huge, too, take up a lot of space, & weigh a lot.
> 
> Now, if rocky was my general, & sent me to the top of some hill to snipe or watch, i'd want my 308 in a bolt & big scope.  Or, he could loan me his 50bmg for really long distance shooting!  But if he sent me & archer to reconnoiter in some urban rubble, i'd want my ar to complement archer's 454.  I might have a 357 pistol, too, but i'd definitely want the ar in any action, both for the accuracy & the ease of carrying ammo.  4 mags in a vest pack gives me 150 rounds.. archer would need a wheelbarrow to carry than many 454!  
> 
> I've got a carbon windham ar with a quick clamp scope mount, & flip up iron sights.  The iron sights can ring a 12" steel target at 100 yds, with regularity.  I need to spend more time shooting it at distance, but with the scope, it is fine for longer distances.  Longer than 300 yds seem impractical for a citizen militia, or a survival scenario, & you're better off with tools for that purpose, like a 50bmg.


Why would I need that much ammo? I shoot and hit and I do not spray and pray. Also my reply was to that specific post which mentioned hunting and killing animals with a slight mention of a chest shot...

As far as SHTF scenario? I would not want an assault rifle of any kind that was not fully capable of putting heavy lead down range. If for some reason there was a military type of detachment coming my way I do not want to be close enough for them to spray and pray.

My purpose, initially, will be survival not combat and insurgency.

----------


## gainso

50 bmg is worthless for us. It's intended for shooting up vehicles in convoys, trains, buildings, propane tanks, ammo dumps, etc. You can't have on site enough ammo to make it worth having.

----------

Archer (04-22-2014)

----------


## Archer

> 50 bmg is worthless for us. It's intended for shooting up vehicles in convoys, trains, buildings, propane tanks, ammo dumps, etc. You can't have on site enough ammo to make it worth having.


I can somewhat agree with that but at range it can be one hell of a deterrent.

----------


## usfan

It depends on use, familiarity, & personal preference..  i don't think there is a 'right' caliber or firearm for any & all situations.  If i could only have one, i'd be mighty tempted to take a 22lr auto pistol.  It is accurate to ~ 100yds, can kill anything with proper shot placement, ammo is lightweight & generally available.  But i think i'd prefer a 223.. a bit more distance & ballistics, & still mostly available, & you can reload them.  I can't imagine a situation where i'd prefer the 44m, 45acp, or 45colt over a 357, or the 223.  A 9mm pistol would probably be a better choice, for general shtf use, but i'm partial to wheel guns, & especially the venerable 357/38spl.  I'd take a 223 & 357 pistol for my firearm combo.. those would give me decent distance & accuracy, & also plenty of close up ballistic power.  Out west, with the wide open spaces, a longer rifle cartridge might be better for longer distances, but i'd still go with the 223 for the overall pros.

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-22-2014),Toefoot (04-22-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> So you're a fool, so what?.....guess what, fools?


It appears you are out of intellectual ammunition, sir.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> It depends on use, familiarity, & personal preference..  i don't think there is a 'right' caliber or firearm for any & all situations.  If i could only have one, i'd be mighty tempted to take a 22lr auto pistol.  It is accurate to ~ 100yds, can kill anything with proper shot placement, ammo is lightweight & generally available.  But i think i'd prefer a 223.. a bit more distance & ballistics, & still mostly available, & you can reload them.  I can't imagine a situation where i'd prefer the 44m, 45acp, or 45colt over a 357, or the 223.  A 9mm pistol would probably be a better choice, for general shtf use, but i'm partial to wheel guns, & especially the venerable 357/38spl.  I'd take a 223 & 357 pistol for my firearm combo.. those would give me decent distance & accuracy, & also plenty of close up ballistic power.  Out west, with the wide open spaces, a longer rifle cartridge might be better for longer distances, but i'd still go with the 223 for the overall pros.


Agreed there is no perfect round.   The argument about lighter, smaller, less ammo in quantity is a valid one.  Humping an M-14 and three full magazines was a bitch compared to the same with an M-16, but the 7.62 would easily punch through 1/8 inch steel whereas the 5.56 only dent it or barely punch through.   The range distance is another factor.   In a guerrilla warfare situation, it would be shoot the highest ranking Officer or NCO then run.  In that case, I'd prefer the M-14/7.62 for greater range and accuracy, but in an up close and personal firefight, the M-16/5.56 would be handier.

----------


## gainso

bs  on the 1/8". 223 SOFTPOINTS pierce  1/4" steel plate, up close, and the (since  1986) steel capped  62 gr loads penetrate steel plate every bit as good as  308 ball, cause that was one of the REQUIRMENTS set for it (by NATO) when we wanted them to go with a 223 belt fed.   It will pierce both sides of a military helmet at  800m (also a requirement set by Nato).  60 rds aint much for a soldier to be carrying, especially a civilian "solider" (ie, shtf) the standard loadout today is 7   30 rd mags of 223.  That same 210 rds  would be over 13 lbs of mags and ammo for the M1A, and a 9 lb rifle (before you add 3 lbs of scope, mount, bipod and sling, needed to have any HOPE of its being superior to the AR and 223 ) And 5 lbs of 1911, spare mags, holster, mag pouches, and  230 gr ammo, of COURSE!  :-) 

 I"ll take a 6 lb AR15 (11.5" barrel), and 3 30 rd mags (1 lb each), a 3/4 lb .22 converison unit, 1 lb of 22 ammo and mags, (subsonic 60 gr Aquilas), a 3/4 lb suppressor, (adds 7.5" of OAL)  1/4 lb bipod, 1 lb of scope and mount, and a 1 lb pocket 9, 1/2  lb of 9mm mags and ammo.  thanks all the same. :-) 16 lbs, not 25 lbs, and QUIET, vs noisy, too. HUGE advantage.  Put 1.5 lbs and 10" of "can" on the end of the M1A, and it becomes a "bipod-only" CLUNK.

Guys favor large, heavy pistols cause they (subconsciously, mostly) know that they will be laying aside that too heavy rifle (a LOT).  :-) The lw, compact 223 can just stay on the assault sling, so about the only use for the pistol, when it's rifle time, is while in a vehicle, crawling a tunnel, climbing a ladder or tree, rappeling, or while in your sleeping bag.

----------


## gainso

you have no way of KNOWING what sort of fight you'll be in, so you'd better go with the most versatile longarm, and that AINT a loud one, that has lots of flash at night. A good silencer removes ALL flash, and sonic crack doesn't help the enemy locate your position, so using a suppressed, full velocity  223 IS an advantage.  Longer range than the M4 can handle is the bunk. you don't NEED to fire at such ranges, you just WANT to do so, that's all. When you aint got Uncle Sugar to insert you or come bail yuo out, you'd better be a LOT more careful about what you do. YOu don't even want to BE in open country, in daylight, if hostilities are the order of the day, much less fire and attract attention to yourself.

----------


## Archer

> bs  on the 1/8". 223 SOFTPOINTS pierce  1/4" steel plate, up close, and the (since  1986) steel capped  62 gr loads penetrate steel plate every bit as good as  308 ball, cause that was one of the REQUIRMENTS set for it (by NATO) when we wanted them to go with a 223 belt fed.   It will pierce both sides of a military helmet at  800m (also a requirement set by Nato).  60 rds aint much for a soldier to be carrying, especially a civilian "solider" (ie, shtf) the standard loadout today is 7   30 rd mags of 223.  That same 210 rds  would be over 13 lbs of mags and ammo for the M1A, and a 9 lb rifle (before you add 3 lbs of scope, mount, bipod and sling, needed to have any HOPE of its being superior to the AR and 223 ) And 5 lbs of 1911, spare mags, holster, mag pouches, and  230 gr ammo, of COURSE!  :-) 
> 
>  I"ll take a 6 lb AR15 (11.5" barrel), and 3 30 rd mags (1 lb each), a 3/4 lb .22 converison unit, 1 lb of 22 ammo and mags, (subsonic 60 gr Aquilas), a 3/4 lb suppressor, (adds 7.5" of OAL)  1/4 lb bipod, 1 lb of scope and mount, and a 1 lb pocket 9, 1/2  lb of 9mm mags and ammo.  thanks all the same. :-) 16 lbs, not 25 lbs, and QUIET, vs noisy, too. HUGE advantage.  Put 1.5 lbs and 10" of "can" on the end of the M1A, and it becomes a "bipod-only" CLUNK.
> 
> Guys favor large, heavy pistols cause they (subconsciously, mostly) know that they will be laying aside that too heavy rifle (a LOT).  :-) The lw, compact 223 can just stay on the assault sling, so about the only use for the pistol, when it's rifle time, is while in a vehicle, crawling a tunnel, climbing a ladder or tree, rappeling, or while in your sleeping bag.


Why don't you link me to some of em air ballistics charts buddy. Read and understand some things about the general formula for the kinetic energy, sectional density or a bullet, the ballistic coefficient and the different types of ammunition (bullets for me) available.

You want to discuss this? We sure can.

----------


## gainso

hey, "buddy", it's much easier than that. Just shoot some  1/4" plate at  25 yds with ANY 223 load, notice the gaping hole in it? better yet, put your butt close to some 3/16" thick steel plate, and have somebody shoot it with  223. according to YOU, you'll be perfectly safe, eh? youll find out.  all you have to do is google the Army tests of GI ammo,

----------


## gainso

know what a M788 remington is? in 1971, I had one in 222.  Friend loaded some super fragmenting  50 gr Hornady SX sp''s, in it. they wont get thru more than 2 soday cans, set side by side! they wo'nt exit a chuck! 

 I left it with a friend when I went to th Army. His dad had a couple of scrap metal  1000 gallon steel tanks. he shot at one of them a few times with my remington and those bullets, from about 100 yds. they were about 6 ft in diameter. Poked holes in one side, and ALMOST exited the other. :-) HUGE "pimples" protruded out of the far side. Go shoot some RR tracks with 223 and 62 gr steel capped ball some time. the craters will be  1/4" deep and 3/8" wide.

----------


## gainso

the high speed impact generates TREMENDOUS levels of heat and has the same effect as a plasma-torch. the metal is vaporized.

----------


## Archer

> hey, "buddy", it's much easier than that. Just shoot some  1/4" plate at  25 yds with ANY 223 load, notice the gaping hole in it? better yet, put your butt close to some 3/16" thick steel plate, and have somebody shoot it with  223. according to YOU, you'll be perfectly safe, eh? youll find out.  all you have to do is google the Army tests of GI ammo,


25 yards? you get in the shit at 25 yards it is one thing but try that at over 100. So I see you completely avoided my post and pulled a reply out of your... Uhhh... the ethereal plane.

----------


## Archer

> the high speed impact generates TREMENDOUS levels of heat and has the same effect as a plasma-torch. the metal is vaporized.


You need mass as well. Take much physics?

You are thinking KE rounds with a tungsten penetration. Those are for fucking tanks not and M16.

APFSDS, read up.

----------


## ManilaFolder

Nerf-vulcan-gun1.jpg

This is the best I got (FOR NOW).

----------


## usfan

Well, i was so inspired by the posts this morning, i stopped by the range on the way to work.  I took the 45acp 1911 & carbine, a mosin, & sks.  I set up my 12" steel plate at 100yds, & shot at it.  The 45 carbine would hit the gong, but not very often, & i still had to aim high.  Inside 80 yds it went 5/5.  The sks shooting 7.62x39 was pretty accurate.. going about 8/10 at 100yds.  At 150, it hit ~ 3/10.  Then at 200yds, it still rang the bell a few times.. all had open sights except the 45 carbine with a holographic green dot.  No magnification.
The best shooter was still the old chi-mosin, type 53 carbine.  I put a slip on recoil pad, & shot about 50 rounds at different distances.  it was pretty windy.. a stiff cross wind, which gave the advantage to the mosin, with more power & flatter shooting.  I didn't have to make any elevation adjustment at 200 yds.. & it rang the bell several times at that distance.  Then, closer up with multiple targets & moving quickly between them, it was very fast target acquisition & still accurate under 100yds.  Every time i shoot the old mosin i'm always impressed & threaten to buy some more cheap cans of ammo.  I don't need the recoil pad on the sks.. that round is pretty easy.  but you know the 54R round in the mosin has some punch to it, just by the kick.  You look at the 54R bullet & know it will knock down anything, if you hit it.

I usually finish up with some pistol shooting, to keep my close range shooting practiced.  Inside of 40 yds, the 1911 is pretty good.  It is accurate, & has a lot of lead going out the barrel.  Still, if i had to survive, or in any shtf scenario, i would prefer a rifle.. even the 45 carbine has better distance & accuracy than the 5" 1911.

I've got a folding collapsible stock on the 45 carbine.. it shortens up pretty well, & it is fun to shoot, but the accuracy & ballistics of the 223 is so much better, especially at distance.  I've thought of putting a folder on my ar, but it's a bit tricky with the spring & tube in the stock.  Collapsed, it is pretty short, anyway.  And at ~ 6#s, its a lot of rifle for the weight.

But if i didn't have any firearms, & was looking for something for a survival situation, a can of 54r & an old mosin is pretty tough to beat.  You could add a 22 rifle, then a shotgun, & then a big caliber pistol for a good overall weapons cache.  Anything more than those basic guns & you're an aficionado.   :Big Grin:   But, if you're an aficionado, get the ar, an ak, several shotguns, lots of calibers in pistols, some lever guns, a few bolts, & whatever else you 'need' to complete your collection.   :Laughing7:

----------

Archer (04-22-2014),Max Rockatansky (04-22-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Attachment 3529
> 
> This is the best I got (FOR NOW).


I have this one for my "cat trainer":


Now all I have to do is cock it and the cat stops whatever it was he was doing, looks a little paranoid then slinks off to do something else.

----------


## ManilaFolder

> I have this one for my "cat trainer":
> 
> 
> 
> Now all I have to do is cock it and the cat stops whatever it was he was doing, looks a little paranoid then slinks off to do something else.


Yea I was thinking about purchasing one of those for CC but ammo is a little hard to find for that particular weapon.

----------


## gainso

how do you shoot a gun that you aint carrying,a nd how do you carry more than one longarm, and a backpack? how will you know when you wont need rapidfire, or more range than the shotgun offers, hmm? I'll stick with owning just one longarm, a shorty AR in 223, with the suppressor and the Ciener .22lr conversion unit.  It can do anything that needs done, except fast draw ccw, and the Kahr can handle that,just fine.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Yea I was thinking about purchasing one of those for CC but ammo is a little hard to find for that particular weapon.


I bought some off-brand ones cheap to augment the originals.   The cat doesn't get into trouble much any more, so it's not very critical.

----------

ManilaFolder (04-23-2014)

----------


## gainso

the pistol should always be a "surprise" to your enemy, and out in the woods, during hostilities, you spend a lot of time laying on the ground. So the pocket rig helps keep crud out of the pistol, and it stays out of the way of the backpack harness and the rifle. No other rig can say the same. They are all either in the way, or expose the gun to sight and crud.

----------


## Archer

> I have this one for my "cat trainer":
> 
> 
> Now all I have to do is cock it and the cat stops whatever it was he was doing, looks a little paranoid then slinks off to do something else.


Screw you! I got high cap clips!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Screw you! I got high cap clips!


Well, if "spray and pray" is the way you want to train cats, it's your choice, but I prefer one well-aimed shot in the ass to get my point across.  :Stick Out Tongue:

----------

Archer (04-23-2014),usfan (04-23-2014)

----------


## usfan

My dad got a squirt gun for his cat, when he had emphysema.. They didn't like them scratching the sofa, so he got a plain kids squirt gun, & kept it by his chair.  It did not take long, & the cat stopped scratching the sofa!

----------


## Archer

> My dad got a squirt gun for his cat, when he had emphysema.. They didn't like them scratching the sofa, so he got a plain kids squirt gun, & kept it by his chair.  It did not take long, & the cat stopped scratching the sofa!


My gun is for battling the kids! I broke the cat with the water bottle and I had been known to use vinegar!

----------


## Calypso Jones

guys...squirt guns.  All you need is a spray bottle.   Works on dogs too.

----------


## Archer

> guys...squirt guns.  All you need is a spray bottle.   Works on dogs too.


I did not say I use a squirt gun! Those should be banned as dangerous weapons.

----------

usfan (04-23-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> My dad got a squirt gun for his cat, when he had emphysema.. They didn't like them scratching the sofa, so he got a plain kids squirt gun, & kept it by his chair.  It did not take long, & the cat stopped scratching the sofa!


I used to do the same, but in the "electronics age" with remotes, laptops and televisions around, I deferred to the Nerf Gun.  For a few years I still kept one in the kitchen for when the cat tried to push the dog out of the way at meal time or if it jumped on a counter or table, but mouse traps took care of the table and counter issue.  I weakened the springs and marked them with an "X" so I don't end up with a huge Vet bill.

----------

usfan (04-23-2014)

----------


## usfan

> guys...squirt guns.  All you need is a spray bottle.   Works on dogs too.



Pfff... shows how unimaginative you are.. and outs you as a female.    :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

REAL men use guns.. even play ones.. for anything that requires aggressive male action.  A spray bottle?   :Geez:   When you could get a cool looking squirt gun?      :Shakeshead:

----------

Max Rockatansky (04-23-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Pfff... shows how unimaginative you are.. and outs you as a female.   
> 
> REAL men use guns.. even play ones.. for anything that requires aggressive male action.  A spray bottle?    When you could get a cool looking squirt gun?


Certainly not as cool as a squirt gun, especially a super soaker.   The best plus for it is a huge "magazine" for repeat fire.

----------


## Archer

> Pfff... shows how unimaginative you are.. and outs you as a female.   
> 
> REAL men use guns.. even play ones.. for anything that requires aggressive male action.  A spray bottle?    When you could get a cool looking squirt gun?


Well I see my squirt bottle as a high capacity small caliber squirt gun that is only out done by a super soaker! It also holds up to vinegar better.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

An interesting article from American Hunter magazine regarding the best rounds to use for hog hunting.  I like Bryce Towsley's attitude of respect and responsible hunting.

http://www.americanhunter.org/articl...=14&sub=24&q=1



> Hang on, this is going to get bumpy.
> 
> I understand that my 47 years of big-game hunting, much of it as my profession, and my life’s work with ballistics and terminal bullet performance don’t give me the credibility of this week’s newest blogger, but I am going to talk a little about something that has been bugging the heck out of me lately.
> 
> 
> The rise in popularity of hunting with ARs crashed head-on into the population explosion of wild hogs in this country. That has led to a lot of instant experts and a lot of bad information being put out about hog hunting.
> 
> 
> I understand that opinions are like armpits, that everybody has one and they all stink (except mine). My opinion on the topic is this: The .223 Remington and .300 Blackout are outstanding cartridges, but not for hunting hogs. Sure, I know they kill a lot of hogs every year. So what? When we raised hogs we killed them with a .22 LR, but that hardly makes it a hog cartridge. A few years back, I killed a big boar hog in Texas with a .17 HMR. It does not make it an acceptable hog cartridge. In fact, I can tell you without a hint of doubt that it is not even close to a viable hog cartridge.
> ...

----------

usfan (05-06-2014)

----------


## usfan

Fdr hunted hogs with a mosin...   :Laughing7:

----------

Max Rockatansky (05-06-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

That would do it!

----------


## JB

I have quite a few but rarely shoot and only purchased one. The rest came by way of my father's passing 10 years ago.

SKS
1936 Winchester M37-20G
XDM40

I also have a few pieces from ZombieTools.net I got as a gift.

----------

Max Rockatansky (05-06-2014)

----------


## usfan

> An interesting article from American Hunter magazine regarding the best rounds to use for hog hunting.  I like Bryce Towsley's attitude of respect and responsible hunting.
> 
> http://www.americanhunter.org/articl...=14&sub=24&q=1


it is a good article, & i agree with his attitude about hunting, too.  I guess i never saw the 223 round as a hunting round, except for prairie dogs or long range varmints.  Some states don't let you hunt deer with it.  Az requires a bigger caliber, iirc.  Probably its primary use (& origination) was in war, to disable & kill the enemy.  I remember reading that wounding an enemy was as effective as a kill, as resources would be taken from the battlefield to tend to the wounded.  If i were to hog hunt (we have javelina here in az.. rodents, not hogs.. taste awful   :Sign18: ) i'd either pack the 30-30 or the 308.. probably the 30-30 for more close range brush hunting.

----------

Max Rockatansky (05-06-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I have quite a few but rarely shoot and only purchased one. The rest came by way of my father's passing 10 years ago.
> 
> SKS
> 1936 Winchester M37-20G
> XDM40
> 
> I also have a few pieces from ZombieTools.net I got as a gift.


Nice assortment.  Sorry about your dad.  As a kid, I hunted rabbits with a single-shot 20 gauge before saving up to buy an Ithaca model 37 Featherlight. 

I love my SKS.  Ammo is cheap.  If you get the chance, buy a half dozen boxes and go have some fun!

Thanks for the Zombietools.net link.  I found a new t-shirt for my wish list:

----------


## Max Rockatansky



----------


## Max Rockatansky

Have a great Memorial Day!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Which would most disarming?  Jenny Agutter's eyes or the double-barreled shotgun she's pointing at you?

----------


## usfan

Well, i made a trade a few weeks ago.. i had a hipoint 9mm carbine, & a guy wanted to trade a broken rossi lever action rifle in 357/38 for it.  It was not the best trade for me, since the carbine was like new, but the lever only needed an ejector, so i made the swap.  Today the part came ($38) & i put it in.  It seems to work fine, but there are fire dangers out so no shooting outside.   :Frown: 

Then, someone had a springfield armory 45acp xds semi auto pistol on sale.. $459 shipped.  I've been watching those & wanting one for a while, so took the plunge.  I picked it up today, but still no shooting.  Hopefully it will rain soon so i can try these guys out.

I've been wanting a lever 38 for a long time.  357/38spl is one of my favorite calibers.. or pairs of calibers..   :Thinking:   Anyway, my 357 revolver is probably my favorite pistol, & if i carry it is a ruger lcr in 38spl, & i've got a couple of others.. as snubbie, & a long dan wesson in the same.  It's got plenty of power, is reasonably cheap to reload, is readily available, & has manageable recoil.  ..especially that lever rifle!  That is like shooting a 22!  I'll probably miss the 9mm carbine, or regret trading it, but i know i'll shoot the lever 38 a lot more.  I will keep it open sights, since its really only good out to ~ 100 yds, & that in 357.

----------

Max Rockatansky (06-09-2014)

----------


## usfan

I realized i had never posted a pic of my mechtech carbine in 45acp. Talking glocks with don made me think of it, so i snapped a couple & here it is. I wanted to keep it simple, but put an inexpensive holo sight on it, a folding m4 stock, & that was it. It came with a plastic fixed stock, but the folder makes it a bit smaller & more portable.  I have an inexpensive Tisas 1911 as the 'lower', & it fits fine, & works fine.  I can put longer mags in it, too.

mechtech45a.jpg
mechtech45b.jpg

This would really be a decent home defense weapon.. it is short enough to carry, has very manageable recoil, & the 45acp packs a punch.  I've seen people tacticool them up with lights, bells, & whistles, but i like the spartan functionality of this.

It would be fun to have one for the glock, too, & they aren't too expensive, but i'm probably over my hobby allowance this year already..   :Laughing7: 

FYI, i found it new for ~ $330, shipped.  You do not need an ffl to buy the upper, if you already have the pistol.  I have a ring on the folding adapter, that i can clip a single point sling to.  That makes it real easy to carry.. it just hangs down, stock folded or out.

The holo sight is pretty cheap.. i think i paid ~ $30 at amazon.  But it works.  I have it sighted in at 50yds, which i figure is the extent of its practical use.  But it will ring the plates at 100 yds with regularity.. just aim a bit high.

----------


## usfan

I was in a firearms hobby thread, & revolvers were brought up.. posting pics.  So i took a pic of mine, & figured i should post them here, for the entertainment of the members.. anyway, here they are!

revolvers.jpg

Starting at top left, going down:
1. s&w k22 masterpiece
2. eaa windicator 357 snubbie
3. 6" rossi judge, 45c/410mag
4. ruger lcr 38spl
5. dan wesson 357, w/4 & 8" bbl, top right
6. ruger redhawk 44 mag
7. naa black widow, 22lr & mag, middle 
8. s&w model 15-4, 38spl
9. ruger gp100, 357

I guess you could say that i'm partial to wheel guns..   :Big Grin:

----------

DonGlock26 (07-21-2014)

----------


## usfan

Ok, my tactical shotgun is gussied up..

The stock is a factory folder, & i put a muzzle brake on it, the hogue pistol grip & forend.  It has magazines, up to 25 rounds!  I've shot some clays with it, & it handles pretty well!

----------

DonGlock26 (07-18-2014),Max Rockatansky (07-18-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Ok, my tactical shotgun is gussied up..
> 
> The stock is a factory folder, & i put a muzzle brake on it, the hogue pistol grip & forend.  It has magazines, up to 25 rounds!  I've shot some clays with it, & it handles pretty well!


All sweet pieces!

I'm still looking for a good wheel gun but have held off to pay off some investments.

----------


## usfan

I've heard on the gun forums that some russian manufacturers will be banned in the us.. saiga, vepr, some others.. so prices on those will start to go up.

BTW, here is the vepr 12 folded.. with a single point sling, it is pretty comfortable & unobtrusive.  The muzzle break really works in reducing felt recoil, too.

----------


## usfan

> All sweet pieces!
> 
> I'm still looking for a good wheel gun but have held off to pay off some investments.


That EAA windicator in 357 is pretty cheap, by firearm standards.. i've seen them regularly under $300.  Still, i'd pick a smith or ruger in 6", if i could only have one revolver.

----------


## Toefoot

Very nice




> I've heard on the gun forums that some russian manufacturers will be banned in the us.. saiga, vepr, some others.. so prices on those will start to go up.
> 
> BTW, here is the vepr 12 folded.. with a single point sling, it is pretty comfortable & unobtrusive.  The muzzle break really works in reducing felt recoil, too.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> That EAA windicator in 357 is pretty cheap, by firearm standards.. i've seen them regularly under $300.  Still, i'd pick a smith or ruger in 6", if i could only have one revolver.


That's what I'm going for, either the S&W 686 or either the Ruger SP or GP.

----------


## usfan

> I'm still looking for a good wheel gun but have held off to pay off some investments.


Your priorities are definitely skewed...    :Laughing7: 




.. just replace 'Ruger' with 'Calvin' in this commercial flashback...    :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

Max Rockatansky (07-18-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

My investments will allow me to buy a _lot_ more guns.  :Big Grin:

----------

usfan (07-18-2014)

----------


## Hansel

> I haven't seen a thread that is just for those who want to chat about guns; brag, show off, ask questions, discussion .45 vs. 9mm, best hunting rounds or anything else you want talk about regarding personal firearms.  The only thing I ask is not to turn this into a gun control debate.  If you have a political agenda for or against guns, please start another thread.  This thread is only for chatting about firearms, ammunition, accessories and other topics a non-political hobbyist would discuss.
> 
> Thanks and I'm looking forward to many discussions and sharing of information.


What spent case?  :Thinking:

----------

freyasman (07-20-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

> I was in a firearms hobby thread, & revolvers were brought up.. posting pics.  So i took a pic of mine, & figured i should post them here, for the entertainment of the members.. anyway, here they are!
> 
> Attachment 4154
> 
> Starting at top left, going down:
> 1. s&w k22 masterpiece
> 2. eaa windicator 357 snubbie
> 3. 6" rossi judge, 45c/410mag
> 4. ruger lcr 38spl
> ...



Nice, obviously you are a wheelie man. I've had a few, but I like 9mm semi-autos created by the Eurotrash elves of the Black Forest.




Glock 26 with custom grip work and X/S Big Dot night sights.




Glock 17 Gen 4 9mm with Ameriglo iDot night sights (see below)







Sig Sauer P228 with updated E2 grips made for P229









Sig Sauer SP2022 9mm 





American-made Kahr PM9 9mm This is my new pocket pistol.






Sig Sauer P232 .380acp






Ruger LCP .380acp

----------

LongTermGuy (07-21-2014),usfan (07-21-2014)

----------


## usfan

> Nice, obviously you are a wheelie man. I've had a few, but I like 9mm semi-autos created by the Eurotrash elves of the Black Forest.
> 
> Glock 26 with custom grip work and X/S Big Dot night sights.
> Glock 17 Gen 4 9mm with Ameriglo iDot night sights (see below)
> Sig Sauer P228 with updated E2 grips made for P229
> Sig Sauer SP2022 9mm 
> American-made Kahr PM9 9mm This is my new pocket pistol.
> Sig Sauer P232 .380acp
> Ruger LCP .380acp


Nice collection!  So now i need to showcase my semi autos!  From top left, down:
1. Keltec pmr-30, 22wmr, US
2. keltec pf9, 9mm, US
3. Canik s-120 (cz75 clone), 9mm, Turkey
4. Kahr cm9, 9mm, US
top right, down:
5. Remington R1 1911, 45acp, US
6. XDS, 45acp, Croatia
7. ruger mark IV, 22LR, US
8. Walther P22, 22 lr, Germany



I also have 2 other semi auto pistols that do double duty in a carbine.  A glock 19 & another 1911.  The glock is austrian & the Tisas is turkish.  I've got a glock 34 on my wish list, to take the place of the glock turned carbine.

Of these, the Kahr cm9 is the best to carry, & is very accurate.. more so than the pf9, which has been VERY unreliable.. stovepipes, FTE, nothing but problems.  I've tried every fluff & buff fix, but will probably send it to the factory for one final chance to stay with the others.

The canik is the newest.. & a nice, reliable firearm.  It shoots any 9mm, & is very accurate, but heavy.  But with 17+1 it packs a lot.  Still, i'd take the glock 19 with 15+1 to carry.  The 1911s are... well.. 1911s.. classic, american, big caliber.  The xds is a nice piece, too, but a bit too big to carry.. for a dainty little person like me, anyway.

The most accurate?  The ruger mk IV in 22 lr.. by a long shot.  Shoots more accurately up to 100 yds, but obviously not with much power.  The 45s have that role.

I used to not care for semi autos, but after getting a glock many years back, the rest of the field caught up.  I would be as comfortable with an auto now in a critical situation as a revolver.  The cm9 has 7+1, so it gives me 2 more shots than the lcr revolver in 38, at nearly the same size.  I still probably carry the lcr more.. probably out of habit.

I've been watching for a glock 19 lower or receiver, to use with the carbine unit, so it would free up the glock 19 as a pistol.  But i have enough variety, & just shoot for fun, anyway.

Here's the glock 'lower' on the carbine:





a cheap red dot, & i can ring steel targets all day at up to 100 yds.  It's probably best at under 80, but is a good combo with the 9mm glock to expand its versatility.  People tacticool these up a lot, but the red dot & folding stock make it easy to carry & it hits the target.  A single point sling, fastened to the silver ring you see at the folder, & this carries very easily.. hangs down & doesn't weigh much.  Put a 34 round mag in it, & you have a pretty powerful HD weapon for inside or out.  Of course, the tactical shotgun is better for that, but this is pretty good & has better range & accuracy.  It's right below a 223 ar, imo, in versatility.  It is much quieter, & 9mm are reasonably cheap.

----------

DonGlock26 (07-21-2014),LongTermGuy (07-21-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

Very nice! I also have a Glock 23 .40, a S&W 442 snubby, a Kel Tec P-32 .32acp, A Ruger .22lr MarkII, a Mossberg 590A1 12ga, and a WASR 10/63 7.62X39mm AK-47 clone. I agree about the CM9. I bought my PM9 used, and I've carried it everyday, since I test fired it for reliability. It has been 100% and accurate to boot!

I really like my Sig SP2022 9mm. At around $400, it is a steal. I like it better than the classic Sigs. 

You can get Glock frames at:

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/glo...ol-frames.aspx

They are milling the slides for red dot scopes and selling the slides separately for $184.

----------

usfan (07-21-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky



----------

usfan (09-30-2014)

----------


## usfan



----------

Max Rockatansky (11-13-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

The SKS is a great little carbine, but putting a scope on it is problematic since most scopes mount on its receiver cover.  That usually changes the zero of the scope every time it is pulled off for cleaning.  While it's possible to drill and tap the forward part of the carbine, doing it oneself is risky and many gunsmiths won't do it.  

The SKS is a great brush gun with a solid enough punch to take down a large hog.  While the iron sights are great, my eyes aren't what they used to be and I wanted to be able to use a small scope or other optical device on it.   For the past few weeks I've been looking into red dot sights and how to mount them on the SKS.  Since the range I plan on using it is less than and up to 100 yards, I didn't need anything very fancy.

  Last night I orderd a couple with a forearm sight mount.  It was fairly cheap and, if it doesn't work as well as others say, I can always use them on my shotgun and/or bow.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/leapers-...t-hg569sa.html

http://i50.tinypic.com/sl74av.jpg





http://www.amazon.com/BSA-30mm-Red-D...ords=bsa+sight


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

----------


## usfan

I also got an early present, thanks to the black friday sales!  Here it is.. yes, another 1911, but this with a double stack magazine!  14 rounds in the mag, for a 14 +1 configuration.

I picked it up yesterday at my FFL, then had to try it out.  I stopped by the range on the way home from work, & put a few mags through it.  It is a Para Usa Expert 14.45.  It is stainless, with a black nitride finish, skeletonized trigger & hammer, & a match barrel.



Heavy, all metal, american made.. a Para Usa with 15- 45 acp rounds in it.  I have 2 other 1911s, but with a maximum 8 in the mag.  It is very well made, accurate, & functioned perfectly.  It weighs a ton fully loaded.. this is no conceal carry piece!  I had been looking at glocks, FNH, & XDs, but this came up on sale so i pulled the trigger.   :Smile:   So now, i can have 29 rounds in a holster (with an extra mag) of 45acp.  The double stack 45s are all pretty big & heavy, anyway.  Most of the others have a 4.5" barrel, but the para has the standard 5" for a 1911.. probably not a lot of difference, but a little.  I've always been more accurate with a 1911 than a glock or other shorter barreled pistol.

..looks like a nice setup for an sks, rocky..   :Thumbsup20:   My son-in-law got me a rear sight mounted rail, to put a scope on a mosin, but i haven't been able to drive the pin out.. i'll need to torch it to loosen it up, no doubt.

I like the red dot & holo sights.  They don't really work for me on a shotgun, but on a short range rifle like the sks, they are great.  You can keep both eyes open, & have the dot on the target.  They will be great for hog hunting.  I have one on a 45 carbine, & a 9mm.  I've tried both the holo & longer red dot, & they both work fine for me.

I like to drag out the old sks every now & then.. the 7.62x39 ammo is still one of the cheapest to shoot.  I don't even bother reloading it because of that.  I kind of like the accuracy of the sks over the ak... but the ak is not known for accuracy, just volume of lead downrange.  I can clang the target all day with iron sights on the sks.. i've only shot it at ~ 100 yds.  Much more than that, & a scope would be essential.  from what i understand 2-300 is about the max for effective range, anyway.  Maybe next time i hit the range, i'll bring the old sks & try it at some longer distances.

----------

DonGlock26 (12-14-2014)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

I'm jealous!!!   This is one I've been looking at myself after seeing it mentioned on the forum.

----------


## usfan



----------


## Arlo

38 years ago I carried a 4" 357 (S&W M19 or M66) or 2" S&W M38 off duty, I started carrying a high cap 9MM about 25 years ago and I don't own or want a revolver any more... I taught my wife to shoot semi autos and she picked out a nice Bersa 380 with Crimson Trace Laser grips as "her" gun... If I were a handgun hunter, I would love to buy a Ruger 44 D/A, but I have no need for a revolver. My income is limited because I'm retired, so I will buy some 9MM ammo and if I can spare the $$$ in the future, I would love to get a Glock 19 or an XD ...

----------


## freyasman

> 38 years ago I carried a 4" 357 (S&W M19 or M66) or 2" S&W M38 off duty, I started carrying a high cap 9MM about 25 years ago and I don't own or want a revolver any more... I taught my wife to shoot semi autos and she picked out a nice Bersa 380 with Crimson Trace Laser grips as "her" gun... If I were a handgun hunter, I would love to buy a Ruger 44 D/A, but I have no need for a revolver. My income is limited because I'm retired, so I will buy some 9MM ammo and if I can spare the $$$ in the future, I would love to get a Glock 19 or an XD ...


All good choices.... Dollar for dollar, it's really hard to beat the Glock or the S&W M&P series; they come in all common calibers, several different sizes, and they have adjustable grips to suit most anyone's hands. They are rugged, reliable as hell, and way more than adequate in accuracy, and with the military/LE discount, you can get them for under $500.

----------


## usfan

+1
For general purpose home defense, one of the auto 9s are good choices, though many think a shotgun is better.  I say, why not both?   :Big Grin:   The best thing about the full size 9 autos is the capacity.  having 17+1 or more in a handgun gives you a lot of shots, should you need them.  I know the perpetual argument about stopping power, but shot placement is a very important thing.  Being able to handle the firearm is up there too.

But for CC, the time tested 38spl revolver is still a valid choice, & is likely still the most carried weapon.  You only have 5 or 6 shots, but the caliber is a proven round, the firearm is safe to carry, & no questions ever about reliability.  No fumbling for a safety, or racking a slide.  Point & shoot.  I sometimes carry the glock 19, but it is petty big, still.  I  much prefer my ruger lcr, a snub 5 shot revolver in 38spl.  It fits in waist band, or out, can slip in a boot or pocket, & is lightweight & discrete.  I have a kahr 9 compact auto, with 7+1 in 9mm, & it is a great pistol, but it is more awkward for me..  it is flat & square with lines that print in a pocket.  The more rounded revolver lines make it more comfortable to carry, imo.  But there is no right or wrong, just personal preference.  I could try to carry that big para above, which would give me 14+1 of 45acp, but it weighs a ton & i'd need a wheeled carrier to pull it around.  A small caliber that you carry is better by far than a big caliber in the safe, if you get in a crisis.

----------

DonGlock26 (12-14-2014)

----------


## DonGlock26

> +1
> For general purpose home defense, one of the auto 9s are good choices, though many think a shotgun is better.  I say, why not both?    The best thing about the full size 9 autos is the capacity.  having 17+1 or more in a handgun gives you a lot of shots, should you need them.  I know the perpetual argument about stopping power, but shot placement is a very important thing.  Being able to handle the firearm is up there too.
> 
> But for CC, the time tested 38spl revolver is still a valid choice, & is likely still the most carried weapon.  You only have 5 or 6 shots, but the caliber is a proven round, the firearm is safe to carry, & no questions ever about reliability.  No fumbling for a safety, or racking a slide.  Point & shoot.  I sometimes carry the glock 19, but it is petty big, still.  I  much prefer my ruger lcr, a snub 5 shot revolver in 38spl.  It fits in waist band, or out, can slip in a boot or pocket, & is lightweight & discrete.  I have a kahr 9 compact auto, with 7+1 in 9mm, & it is a great pistol, but it is more awkward for me..  it is flat & square with lines that print in a pocket.  The more rounded revolver lines make it more comfortable to carry, imo.  But there is no right or wrong, just personal preference.  I could try to carry that big para above, which would give me 14+1 of 45acp, but it weighs a ton & i'd need a wheeled carrier to pull it around.  A small caliber that you carry is better by far than a big caliber in the safe, if you get in a crisis.



I have several high-capacity 9mms- a Sig P228, Sig SP2022, Glock 17 Gen 4, and a Glock 26 with custom frame work. 
I use the Glock 17 with a light attached for home defense.

My set up is similar to this:






Rumor has it that I may get a G-19 Gen 4 for Christmas!!

----------

usfan (12-14-2014)

----------


## Trinnity

*Bump !* :Boobs: 

*Thanks @usfan for tagging this thread. Some folks might enjoy it.*

----------

