# Politics and News > Rants, Opinions, Observations >  "Al Qaida John" the new "Hanoi Jane"

## Guest

A few months back I read some posts by people who said that Jane Fonda should be hanged for treason, that they would spit on her, etc.  I'm wondering how you guys feel about Al Qaida John's aiding and abetting of Al Qaida terrorists in Syria?  His dinner with a kidnapper is a McCain classic.

As someone with a dog in the AQ fight, I am curious why people are not as outraged by crazy John's behavior.  Is it because he didn't throw on a keffiyeh?

http://law.onecle.com/constitution/a...the-enemy.html

What's your thoughts?  Why is Al Qaida John not receiving the same outrage from conservatives?  Is it because none of the anti-Jane Fonda types lost someone you loved to Al Qaida? 

Curious.

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Ethereal (08-03-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (07-28-2013)

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## Gerrard Winstanley

Wait, I thought we've been at war with Al Qaeda since 2001 - ?

OOOOOOHHHH.

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## Guest



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Ethereal (08-03-2013)

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## Dan40

> A few months back I read some posts by people who said that Jane Fonda should be hanged for treason, that they would spit on her, etc.  I'm wondering how you guys feel about Al Qaida John's aiding and abetting of Al Qaida terrorists in Syria?  His dinner with a kidnapper is a McCain classic.
> 
> As someone with a dog in the AQ fight, I am curious why people are not as outraged by crazy John's behavior.  Is it because he didn't throw on a keffiyeh?
> 
> http://law.onecle.com/constitution/a...the-enemy.html
> 
> What's your thoughts?  Why is Al Qaida John not receiving the same outrage from conservatives?  Is it because none of the anti-Jane Fonda types lost someone you loved to Al Qaida? 
> 
> Curious.


Where do you get the balls to declare that YOU know who is who in Stria.

I'd be dam happy to totally support the anti-AQ side in Stria.  But there is no clue WHO that might be.  IS Assad a friend of AQ?  Are the rebels with AQ?  Who's on first?

And a dog in the fight?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

*He became a naval aviator, flying ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. In October 1967, while on a bombing mission over Hanoi, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture, and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. His war wounds left him with lifelong physical limitations.*

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Belazure (07-28-2013)

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## Guest

> Where do you get the balls to declare that YOU know who is who in Stria.


What is Stria?




> I'd be dam happy to totally support the anti-AQ side in Stria.  But there is no clue WHO that might be.  IS Assad a friend of AQ?  Are the rebels with AQ?  Who's on first?


Do you ever watch the news or C-SPAN?  We admit its AQ but they are the lesser of two evils.




> And a dog in the fight?


Yes, to Al Qaida...like me.  I lost someone to Al Qaida.




> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain
> 
> *He became a naval aviator, flying ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, he was almost killed in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. In October 1967, while on a bombing mission over Hanoi, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. He was a prisoner of war until 1973. McCain experienced episodes of torture, and refused an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer. His war wounds left him with lifelong physical limitations.*


And?

He's gone crazy now and is sliming up to Al Qaida, the same people shooting and killing OUR troops overseas.

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## Belazure

> A few months back I read some posts by people who said that Jane Fonda should be hanged for treason, that they would spit on her, etc.  I'm wondering how you guys feel about Al Qaida John's aiding and abetting of Al Qaida terrorists in Syria?  His dinner with a kidnapper is a McCain classic.
> 
> As someone with a dog in the AQ fight, I am curious why people are not as outraged by crazy John's behavior.  Is it because he didn't throw on a keffiyeh?
> 
> http://law.onecle.com/constitution/a...the-enemy.html
> 
> What's your thoughts?  Why is Al Qaida John not receiving the same outrage from conservatives?  Is it because none of the anti-Jane Fonda types lost someone you loved to Al Qaida? 
> 
> Curious.


Because he's not meeting with them to support their war against the United States

/thread

On the flip side, I'd say Ron Paul's apologizing for 9/11 and blaming the United States is way more treasonous. That and him praising the murder of a US Navy SEAL.

Not to mention Ron Paul's biggest donor builds technology to allow the CIA to spy on American citizens:

http://www.thenation.com/article/166...builds-toys-it

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## Guest

> Because he's not meeting with them to support their war against the United States
> 
> /thread


She wasn't meeting them to support the war, but allegedly to stop it.  He's meeting with the same terrorist group that is shooting at our troops.  If you met with AQ in the US just to chit chat you'd be in jail.  He gets to have dinner and come back and make crazy speeches.

Why do you hate the troops?

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## Belazure

> 


More fitting:

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## Belazure

> She wasn't meeting them to support the war, but allegedly to stop it.


To "stop it" by supporting our enemies.




> He's meeting with the same terrorist group that is shooting at our troops.


So what? It's called diplomacy.




> If you met with AQ in the US just to chit chat you'd be in jail.  He gets to have dinner and come back and make crazy speeches.
> 
> Why do you hate the troops?


I'm not a diplomat. McCain doesn't hate our troops, I'd say Ron Paul hates them much more openly.

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## Guest

> More fitting:



Are you stupid?  This is not a joke to me.  My husband was blown up by Al Qaida and you think this is funny.  Fuck off.

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## Dan40

> In this case CNN is right and probably all of the staffers he paid to do research were right and all of the marines, soldiers, and military people in and around Washington he could have talked to were right, but he's crazy and went off on his own because he thinks of himself as a maverick.
> 
> I now think of him as someone who had dinner with the enemy.


So you don't agree with the libertarians that say we need words, not bullets?

Should he negotiate with "THE OTHER SIDE?"

Now who the fuck would that be?

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## Aldo Raine

> So you don't agree with the libertarians that say we need words, not bullets?
> 
> Should he negotiate with "THE OTHER SIDE?"
> 
> Now who the fuck would that be?


I know that violence is effective and that humans are more apt to respect someone armed than someone not armed.

BTW, that has nothing to do with John McCain having dinner with people who fund and embed with Al Qaeda.  Both Assad and the rebels have dealings with AQ.  If AQ is no longer the enemy then we should immediately stop fighting them in Afghanistan.  

McCain is a piece of stinky shit and had meals with the enemy making him my enemy and to top off this ass fuck of the troops I would bet he did this using our tax dollars.

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## Teutorian

I honestly wonder if McCain isn't partly senile and being manipulated by ruthless special interest groups that know it.

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## Dan40

> I know that violence is effective and that humans are more apt to respect someone armed than someone not armed.
> 
> BTW, that has nothing to do with John McCain having dinner with people who fund and embed with Al Qaeda.  Both Assad and the rebels have dealings with AQ.  If AQ is no longer the enemy then *we should immediately stop fighting them in Afghanistan. * 
> 
> McCain is a piece of stinky shit and had meals with the enemy making him my enemy and to top off this ass fuck of the troops I would bet he did this using our tax dollars.


"*we should immediately stop fighting them in Afghanistan.  "*

Complain about that to the incompetent dumb fuck commander in chief.  He announced to the enemy on national TV that we were pulling out and giving up in Afghanistan.  Why would any troop want to go there and risk their life under that directive from the puzzle palace?

McCain tries to find out WTF is going on in Syria.  And obama exposes ALL OUR troops in Afghanistan to death and injury for NO purpose except to cut and run.

You want to denut McCain, and last I knew we did not OFFICIALLY have a single troop on the ground in SYRIA.

And you don't say shit about bobo's TREASONOUS ORDERS for troops FIGHTING and DYING in Afghanistan.

Priorities anyone?

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## Guest

> "*we should immediately stop fighting them in Afghanistan.  "*
> 
> Complain about that to the incompetent dumb fuck commander in chief.  He announced to the enemy on national TV that we were pulling out and giving up in Afghanistan.  Why would any troop want to go there and risk their life under that directive from the puzzle palace?
> 
> McCain tries to find out WTF is going on in Syria.  And obama exposes ALL OUR troops in Afghanistan to death and injury for NO purpose except to cut and run.
> 
> You want to denut McCain, and last I knew we did not OFFICIALLY have a single troop on the ground in SYRIA.
> 
> And you don't say shit about bobo's TREASONOUS ORDERS for troops FIGHTING and DYING in Afghanistan.
> ...


 @Dan40,

this thread is about John McCain.  Start one about Obama if you're so incensed and cease to derail this one with your strawmen.

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## Teutorian

> "*we should immediately stop fighting them in Afghanistan.  "*
> 
> Complain about that to the incompetent dumb fuck commander in chief.  He announced to the enemy on national TV that we were pulling out and giving up in Afghanistan.  Why would any troop want to go there and risk their life under that directive from the puzzle palace?
> 
> McCain tries to find out WTF is going on in Syria.  And obama exposes ALL OUR troops in Afghanistan to death and injury for NO purpose except to cut and run.
> 
> You want to denut McCain, and last I knew we did not OFFICIALLY have a single troop on the ground in SYRIA.
> 
> And you don't say shit about bobo's TREASONOUS ORDERS for troops FIGHTING and DYING in Afghanistan.
> ...


I find it hilarious that after the Republican primary, after all your bashing on Ron Paul supporters as fringe lunatics, after all your speeches about Romney's electability (we told you), here you are, supporting John McCain's blatant, unbridled war mongering, in a nation no American cares about, and representing a tiny fringe element of the Republican party... 

...which, by the way,if you failed to notice, is completely unelectable.

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-02-2013)

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## Dan40

> I find it hilarious that after the Republican primary, after all your bashing on Ron Paul supporters as fringe lunatics, after all your speeches about Romney's electability (we told you), here you are, supporting John McCain's blatant, unbridled war mongering, in a nation no American cares about, and representing a tiny fringe element of the Republican party... 
> 
> ...which, by the way,if you failed to notice, is completely unelectable.


Sieg Heil dumb ass.  You know more about "fringe" than I'll ever want to know.  And you know,,,,,,shit.

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## Roadmaster

I have never liked McCain. This is one con that could see he was no good.

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## Dan40

So I guess that both the "Doves" and the "Hawks" on this thread want us to carpet bomb Syria out of existence and waste NO TIME talking with anyone on any side.

I can live with that.  But no nukes, it fucks up the oil and we WANT THAT!

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## TheTemporaryBG

John McCain had no business over there just like he has no business in the Senate.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> So I guess that both the "Doves" and the "Hawks" on this thread want us to carpet bomb Syria out of existence and waste NO TIME talking with anyone on any side.
> 
> I can live with that.  But no nukes, it fucks up the oil and we WANT THAT!


I don't want us to bomb anyone.

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## Dan40

> I don't want us to bomb anyone.


And you don't want anyone from the US to talk to either side.

Your solution?  Hide your head in the mud and hope the problem goes away.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> And you don't want anyone from the US to talk to either side.
> 
> Your solution?  Hide your head in the mud and hope the problem goes away.


Last I heard Kerry was Secretary of State.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> And you don't want anyone from the US to talk to either side.
> 
> Your solution?  Hide your head in the mud and hope the problem goes away.


How many strawmen you got? Of course I want diplomacy. Diplomacy, however, is the job of John Kerry, as Secretary of State. It is not the job of rogue Senators.

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Teutorian (08-03-2013)

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## Dan40

> How many strawmen you got? Of course I want diplomacy. Diplomacy, however, is the job of John Kerry, as Secretary of State. It is not the job of rogue Senators.


Did the strange voices in your head tell you that absolute total bullshit?  John Kerry is telling Israel to give up territory to satisfy the Palestinians.  Israel is smaller than New Hampshire, and Kerry wants them to give territory to terrorists.

No straw man, just not an idiotic, jump to the first conclusion, ass like you.

Did McCain do any good?  Almost certainly not.  Did he do any harm?  Definitely not.

And since McCain is some 1000% smarter than you, maybe he learned something we can use.

They're probably laughing at him just like they're laughing at Kerry.

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## The XL

> How many strawmen you got? Of course I want diplomacy. Diplomacy, however, is the job of John Kerry, as Secretary of State. It is not the job of rogue Senators.


Diplomacy won't work because it's never entered in good faith.  

What we need to do is get out of the Middle East entirely, and let them sort their own shit out.

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## Dan40

> Diplomacy won't work because it's never entered in good faith.  
> 
> What we need to do is get out of the Middle East entirely, and let them sort their own shit out.


Sorting out their own shit only means more attacks on us here.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> Did the strange voices in your head tell you that absolute total bullshit?  John Kerry is telling Israel to give up territory to satisfy the Palestinians.  Israel is smaller than New Hampshire, and Kerry wants them to give territory to terrorists.


It's still _his_ job, not McCain's.




> Did McCain do any good?  Almost certainly not.  Did he do any harm?  Definitely not.


He harmed troop morale.  This is a fact.  Many of us are pretty goddamn pissed that we've chased Al Qaeda all over the goddamn globe and this asshole goes over and has dinner with people who quite possibly are either colluding with them, receiving weapons from them, and maybe even are members of AQ.

I get as a Nam vet you like Kerry but trust me the rest of us who are in now who have combat deployed do not feel the same.

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Perianne (08-03-2013)

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Did the strange voices in your head tell you that absolute total bullshit?  John Kerry is telling Israel to give up territory to satisfy the Palestinians.  Israel is smaller than New Hampshire, and Kerry wants them to give territory to terrorists.
> 
> No straw man, just not an idiotic, jump to the first conclusion, ass like you.
> 
> Did McCain do any good?  Almost certainly not.  Did he do any harm?  Definitely not.
> 
> And since McCain is some 1000% smarter than you, maybe he learned something we can use.
> 
> They're probably laughing at him just like they're laughing at Kerry.


Kerry is the nation's top diplomat. It's his job to flit about the world talking to terrorists and enemies. McCain is a Senator. His job, before the Seventeenth Amendment, was to represent his state. Now, his job is to represent the people of his state..._to the federal government_, *not* to international forces.

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## Dan40

> It's still _his_ job, not McCain's.
> 
> 
> 
> He harmed troop morale.  This is a fact.  Many of us are pretty goddamn pissed that we've chased Al Qaeda all over the goddamn globe and this asshole goes over and has dinner with *people who quite possibly* are either colluding with them, receiving weapons from them, and maybe even are members of AQ.
> 
> I get as a Nam vet you like Kerry but trust me the rest of us who are in now who have combat deployed do not feel the same.


You can't even read what you write.


*"people who quite possibly*"
That has been my point all along.  We don't KNOW the allegiance of who he talked with.  Yet you are quick to find him guilty of treason.

And reading skills?  Link to where I EVER said a kind, even decent, word about the complete lying asshole Kerry.*
The only thing about Kerry is that when our main focus of problems is in the Middle East, he is better than a woman.  As they ignore women.  But I don't see him accomplishing anything.
*

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## TheTemporaryBG

> You can't even read what you write.


I can.  I just prefer not to make 100% statements like 99% of the posters on here, yourself included unless I know for sure, saw it with my own two eyes, and all that.




> *"people who quite possibly*"


As I've said before I don't make 100% statements, but I say the probability is upwards of 90% which is why both he and Jane Fonda should have both stayed their asses home instead of going to see for themselvevs.




> That has been my point all along.  We don't KNOW the allegiance of who he talked with.


We do know.  We know with the same certainty that we know we'll probably get to work when we leave our house that morning or that the airplane we're on will probably not crash and we'll get to where we're going.

YOU don't know because you're not privy to training or intelligence on AQ.  YOU don't know in the same way that I don't know about Vietnam.

AQ is now supplying rebel movements across the globe.  If this were not the case we wouldn't be chasing them across the globe.  All of the intelligence coming out of that region is almost 100% certain that the rebels are in bed with AQ but you want to cut him some slack because of what he did in Vietnam because you were in Vietnam and don't give fucks about us guys that are over there now.




> Yet you are quick to find him guilty of treason.


Yes, I am.




> And reading skills?  Link to where I EVER said a kind, even decent, word about the complete lying asshole Kerry.*
> The only thing about Kerry is that when our main focus of problems is in the Middle East, he is better than a woman.  As they ignore women.  But I don't see him accomplishing anything.
> *


I meant McCain and typed Kerry because they're pretty much the same to me.

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## Calypso Jones

TBG...have you been on a secret mission for the past week or so?    You don't have to say one way or the other.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> TBG...have you been on a secret mission for the past week or so?    You don't have to say one way or the other.


I thought you knew?  Certain people on this forum ​Rina and Gemini conspired with my command to ensure that I was forced to rest.

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## Gerrard Winstanley

> Diplomacy won't work because it's never entered in good faith.  
> 
> What we need to do is get out of the Middle East entirely, and let them sort their own shit out.


Yes, what you said! I'm certain withdrawing from the Middle East would stop AQ conspiring to fly passenger jets into public landmarks. I'm certain that legacy of fathers and brothers killed in drone-strikes, of torture at GitMo and Abu Ghraib, will all be forgotten. It's all the West's fault, after all.

Then we can dance off into the sunlight, Ayman al-Zawahiri at one side and Ayatollah Khameini at the other. The Palestinians and the Jews will embrace in harmony, Sunni and Shiite will realise how few differences they actually share, and decades of bombings, massacres, sectarian violence and hatred will be thrown to wind, an irrelevance.

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## Guest

> Yes, what you said! I'm certain withdrawing from the Middle East would stop AQ conspiring to fly passenger jets into public landmarks. I'm certain that legacy of fathers and brothers killed in drone-strikes, of torture at GitMo and Abu Ghraib, will all be forgotten. It's all the West's fault, after all.


They will have nothing to rail against and go back to fighting each other.  The reason we don't want to leave is pride, not safety.




> Then we can dance off into the sunlight, Ayman al-Zawahiri at one side and Ayatollah Khameini at the other. The Palestinians and the Jews will embrace in harmony, Sunni and Shiite will realise how few differences they actually share, and decades of bombings, massacres, sectarian violence and hatred will be thrown to wind, an irrelevance.


Nope, they'll destroy each other, but that's their choice.

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## Gerrard Winstanley

> They will have nothing to rail against and go back to fighting each other.  The reason we don't want to leave is pride, not safety.


It would be a blow to the public conscience for generations if Afghanistan was lost to the Taliban within years of a coalition withdrawal. Less about pride than finishing the job.



> Nope, they'll destroy each other, but that's their choice.


Exactly, and the consequences for us in the West would be too appalling to contemplate.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> It would be a blow to the public conscience for generations if Afghanistan was lost to the Taliban within years of a coalition withdrawal. Less about pride than finishing the job.


1) Terrorism is an ideal. You can't kill it. This "job" that needs "finishing" has only caused the "enemy," Al Qaeda, to expand in strength and influence to unprecedented levels. They are not defeated, they are more powerful. How many more American men and women need to die before we realize that we're only making things worse?
2) The Taliban is waiting to take Afghanistan back. You cannot prevent it, short of nuking the entire nation.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> It would be a blow to the public conscience for generations if Afghanistan was lost to the Taliban within years of a coalition withdrawal. Less about pride than finishing the job.


What is the Taliban in your opinion and what makes them worse than the tribal leaders running things now?  Do you know what we're doing over there?

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## Gerrard Winstanley

> What is the Taliban in your opinion and what makes them worse than the tribal leaders running things now?  Do you know what we're doing over there?


For all its faults, I don't even need to explain why the existing Afghan government is better than Mullah Omar's lot.



> 1) Terrorism is an ideal. You can't kill it. This "job" that needs "finishing" has only caused the "enemy," Al Qaeda, to expand in strength and influence to unprecedented levels. They are not defeated, they are more powerful. How many more American men and women need to die before we realize that we're only making things worse?
>  2) The Taliban is waiting to take Afghanistan back. You cannot prevent it, short of nuking the entire nation.


 1) They're not stronger, they're critically weaker than they were pre-2001 and fragmented beyond repair. Do you seriously think less Americans will die if we choose to pull back from the ME?
 2) Correct, we're there to strengthen the existing Afghan government so they can't take it back. If they do succeed in reoccupying the country, that's a possible base for a resurgent AQ.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> For all its faults, I don't even need to explain why the existing Afghan government is better than Mullah Omar's lot.


Yes, you do actually.  I was deployed there and I don't know that you know what you're talking about.

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## Gerrard Winstanley

> Yes, you do actually.  I was deployed there and I don't know that you know what you're talking about.


Is the Afghan government flogging heroin, withholding elections, harbouring terrorists, systematically repressing women and enforcing a regime of ethnoreligious-based terror?

Telling somebody they don't know what they're talking about is the nadir of constructive arguments.

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