# Politics and News > World Affairs >  North Korea's latest provocations

## pjohns

Over the past couple of months, North Korea's Kim Jong-Un has become increasingly belligerent. Within that time frame, the DPRK has released a video promising the incineration of Washington by a nuclear device; declared null and void its 60-year-old armistice with South Korea; severed military "hotline" communications with South Korea; and vowed to "settle accounts" with the US.

Yes, North Korea has a history of testing new South Korean leaders; and the timing (of some of this bellicose rhetoric, anyway) may be loosely related to America's recent military maneuvers with South Korea, and the B-52 flyover of the Korean Peninsula.

But the rhetoric is nonetheless worrisome: Kim the Younger may very well be backing himself into a corner, so that he *must* actually do something, in order to prove that he is not all bluster. And that could certainly mean a new war on the Korean Peninsula.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

Our government and complicit media has been planning this since Bush first coined the "Axis of Evil" rhetoric.

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## Trinnity

China gets on the phone with Kim Un and says....ya wanna have some fun with America? Bully them and we won't say a thing.

China laffs.

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pjohns (03-30-2013)

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

I don't think China has much to do with this right now, honestly.

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## pollycy

> Our government and complicit media has been planning this since Bush first coined the "Axis of Evil" rhetoric.


Interesting hypothesis, O Thinker... got _any_ supporting proof, links, or anything with substance to flesh out this latest of your erudite pronouncements...?  

Although I'm no admirer of _Idiot Bush_, it is interesting to note that the belligerency of the two remaining nations in the so-called, "Axis of Evil", North Korea and Iran, has not diminished since the arrival of _Idiot Obama_.  

Oh, and as an afterthought, could you please tell us who or what these "complicit media" are who loved _Idiot Bush_ so?  Did it include the "news professionals" at CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc., who are best known for kissing _Comrade Obama's_ ass until it drips, since 2007?  How can we ever forget that incandescent moron and highly-regarded "news professional", MSNBC's Chris Matthews, and all his gush about Obama making his "_leg tingle_"...?   :Icon Jokercolor:

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pjohns (03-30-2013)

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## Guest

Unfortunately, their missiles can't reach Hollywood.

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pollycy (03-30-2013)

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## countryboy

> Unfortunately, their missiles can't reach Hollywood.


Does anyone else find it humorous that three of their missiles contain the word "dong" in them? I know, I can be so juvenile at times.  :Big Grin:

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Trinnity (03-30-2013)

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## pjohns

> Our government and complicit media has been planning this since Bush first coined the "Axis of Evil" rhetoric.


And how, exactly, is it the fault of "[o]ur government" and our "media" that Kim Jong-Un has been acting in an incredibly bellicose manner recently?

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## Trinnity

> I don't think China has much to do with this right now, honestly.


I do.

I think China loves to watch NK aggravate the West and encourages it with their silence.

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## Guest

China told them to shut the fuck up about it.  I guess they still need us to pay them back the money we owe them.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Does anyone else find it humorous that three of their missiles contain the word "dong" in them? I know, I can be so juvenile at times.


And the first one is "Nodong"  :Big Grin:

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countryboy (03-30-2013)

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> And how, exactly, is it the fault of "[o]ur government" and our "media" that Kim Jong-Un has been acting in an incredibly bellicose manner recently?


Well, our 43rd President called North Korea part of an "Axis of Evil" in his 2002 State of the Union addressed, sandwiched in between statements about going to war. Our 44th President sent special forces troops into North Korea, rerouted the majority of our forces just off North Korea's coast, visited the DMZ on the North-South border and called it freedom's frontier, sent B-2 bombers to South Korea, ordered daily military drills with the South Korean military, etc.

And really? You need proof that our MSM is in Obama's pocket?

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Interesting hypothesis, O Thinker... got _any_ supporting proof, links, or anything with substance to flesh out this latest of your erudite pronouncements...?  
> 
> Although I'm no admirer of _Idiot Bush_, it is interesting to note that the belligerency of the two remaining nations in the so-called, "Axis of Evil", North Korea and Iran, has not diminished since the arrival of _Idiot Obama_.  
> 
> Oh, and as an afterthought, could you please tell us who or what these "complicit media" are who loved _Idiot Bush_ so?  Did it include the "news professionals" at CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, etc., who are best known for kissing _Comrade Obama's_ ass until it drips, since 2007?  How can we ever forget that incandescent moron and highly-regarded "news professional", MSNBC's Chris Matthews, and all his gush about Obama making his "_leg tingle_"...?


See post #12. I'm really not sure what your lates rambling is about.

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## pollycy

> See post #12. I'm really not sure what your lates rambling is about.


Evasive as ever, O "Dark Lord of All"... so no links?  No proof?  And no recognition of the potential threat that two of the surviving "Axis of Evil" twins represent?  No recognition of the fawning, nauseating "news" coverage that the hyperliberal media give your precious _President Transparent_, which they certainly never gave poor, old _Idiot Bush_...?  Don't give it a second, or even a _first_ thought, O thinker.  I wouldn't want to give you a headache by making you think about things that you don't think about (remembering the Matthew Brady character in "_Inherit the Wind_")....  

I do wish, however, that you would change your avatar back to that scowling old creep you used before, for I do revere and respect Theodore Roosevelt....

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## Roadmaster

Yep those billion dollar, 2 of them in SK something is about to break.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Evasive as ever, O "Dark Lord of All"... so no links?  No proof?  And no recognition of the potential threat that two of the surviving "Axis of Evil" twins represent?  No recognition of the fawning, nauseating "news" coverage that the hyperliberal media give your precious _President Transparent_, which they certainly never gave poor, old _Idiot Bush_...?  Don't give it a second, or even a _first_ thought, O thinker.  I wouldn't want to give you a headache by making you think about things that you don't think about (remembering the Matthew Brady character in "_Inherit the Wind_")....  
> 
> I do wish, however, that you would change your avatar back to that scowling old creep you used before, for I do revere and respect Theodore Roosevelt....


Post #12 contained several links showing 11 years of our government threatening North Korea. I'm bot going to repeat that post just because you're too lazy to look at it and follow the links.

Obama is not my President.

And you can kindly get the hell over it, because I like TR and I really don't care if you like that I have him as my avatar.

Good day.

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## Roadmaster

Well the NK state news just released a statement that the US is threatening them with nuclear weapons. I wonder if their people even know what's going on?

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pjohns (03-30-2013)

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## pjohns

> Well, our 43rd President called North Korea part of an "Axis of Evil" in his 2002 State of the Union addressed, sandwiched in between statements about going to war. Our 44th President sent special forces troops into North Korea, rerouted the majority of our forces just off North Korea's coast, visited the DMZ on the North-South border and called it freedom's frontier, sent B-2 bombers to South Korea, ordered daily military drills with the South Korean military, etc.


And prior to any of that, North Korea (under Kim Il-Sung) was already throwing little tantrums, in the hope (just about always successful) of blackmailing the West--and especially the US--for some sort of "assistance" for the failed state on China's border.

And, going back further than that, there is a long list of post-Korean War provocations by the DPRK.

Here is a link to a list of some of them, over the years: http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL30004.pdf




> You need proof that our MSM is in Obama's pocket?


Well, I watch FNC regularly; and if any of the news anchors there is "in [President] Obama's pocket," I have certainly failed to notice it.

Moreover, I am not at all certain just how this might affect the reporting of the DPRK's provocations by the news media...

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

So what? How does any of that invalidate the fact that we've been threatening North Korea since the end of the Korean War?

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## pollycy

> Post #12 contained several links showing 11 years of our government threatening North Korea. I'm bot going to repeat that post just because you're too lazy to look at it and follow the links.
> 
> Obama is not my President.
> 
> And you can kindly get the hell over it, because I like TR and I really don't care if you like that I have him as my avatar.
> 
> Good day.


I'm thinking about changing my avatar to that of the character I most admire (_today_, anyway): Violet, the Dowager Countess of Grantham.  It goes against everything in me to get wrapped up in some silly PBS melodrama like "Downton Abbey", but there it is.  I find less and less in the 21st Century (that doesn't require electrical power) that is even _endurable_ -- and, that includes the entirety of today's dumbed-down, hopelessly corrupt political/economic situation.  

You irritated me early on by lashing out at me in what I thought to be an arbitrarily insulting manner, and so I began retaliating, like a mean-spirited child pulling the legs off of some hapless, captured insect, one by one.  That was wrong of me, and, a complete waste of time, for it doesn't improve me in any way simply to engage in a quid-pro-quo match of deprecations.  

So, you say you're a Liberal, but Obama is not your president.  Hmmm.  I'm an arch-Conservative, and no one has been "my" president since Ronald Reagan.  I suspect we'll never have an affinity for each other, but if "misery loves company", then we'll both walk through this 21st Century desolation where neither of us finds satisfaction or fulfillment with our national "leadership".  I find it compelling that as different as we are, we both obviously admire Theodore Roosevelt....

Parenthetically, North Korea can't be much of "threat", or concern, so long as we know we can turn the whole stinking Communist/Marxist/Socialist pile of shit into a glowing heap of ashes in two minutes.  But if that should ever change and/or Iran becomes equipped with nuclear weapons and delivery systems, then the situation will be different.  Like I said a few weeks ago, I'm very much in favor of destroying our enemies ("Axis of Evil", et al) before they gain strength and power!  But, like Violet, the Dowager Countess, I'm obviously an anachronism -- a relic from a bygone time in America, when the United States defended its borders, its sovereignty, and its ability to project power necessary for our survival.  How I _hate_ the 21st Century!

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## JohnAdams

> Our government and complicit media has been planning this since Bush first coined the "Axis of Evil" rhetoric.


Here we go folks, now the same anti-americans who have treasonously attempted to hamstring our nation in it's war efforts in both Iraq and Afghanistan, are going to just as they did with those wars, start to tell us all how great and grand the regime of North Korea is. 

You know I just once wish one of these individuals who always denigrate the United States and it's government, would go live under one of these regimes they argue to defend, like that of north Korea, for say three to five years and then come tell us all how grand the regime there is... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Guest

> Here we go folks, now the great anti-americans are going to start to tell us all how great and grand the regime of North Korea is. You know I just once wish one of these individuals would go live there for say three to five years and then come tell us all how grand the regime there is...


North Korea can't even keep on its own power at night.  That's how broke that country is.  It's longest range rocket can't make it to our West Coast.

But they are part of the axis of evil because they can't loan us money like China who will destroy us by stealing all our jobs and loaning us money.

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littlejohn (03-31-2013)

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## JohnAdams

> Well, our 43rd President called North Korea part of an "Axis of Evil" in his 2002 State of the Union addressed, sandwiched in between statements about going to war. Our 44th President sent special forces troops into North Korea, rerouted the majority of our forces just off North Korea's coast, visited the DMZ on the North-South border and called it freedom's frontier, sent B-2 bombers to South Korea, ordered daily military drills with the South Korean military, etc.
> 
> And really? You need proof that our MSM is in Obama's pocket?


Oh I see, so statement's made in history, while his father was running the show grinding the people of North Korea under his heel.

Justify the actions of his son now.

I just love the logic in that one.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## JohnAdams

> North Korea can't even keep on its own power at night.  That's how broke that country is.  It's longest range rocket can't make it to our West Coast.
> 
> But they are part of the axis of evil because they can't loan us money like China who will destroy us by stealing all our jobs and loaning us money.


No they are because, the regime there has repeatedly threatened with nuclear attack allied nations such as South Korea, and Taiwan, and Japan. You know nations we have mutual defense treaties with?

Nations we have on paper, sworn we will come to their defense if attacked militarily?

But I suppose we should instead just throw out the treaty which ended the war with Japan, (WWII) and instead allow Japan to build up it's own military with it's own offensive capability, so they can go invade Korea again right?

Really before spouting off at the mouth, to attack our own government, some need to try learning the history of the region and the regimes we are dealing with first.

Before just assuming "oh here goes that big ebil America again" as most libs do, and then spouting off with diarrhea of the mouth here with "america is bad, evil dictator is good" b.s.

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## Guest

> No they are because, the regimes there repeatedly threaten allied nations such as South Korea, and Taiwan, and Japan. You know nations we have mutual defense treaties with?


And they are the only nation who has threatened its neighbors?  China hasn't gotten aggressive with Taiwan?  You sure about that?




> Really before spouting off at the mouth, to attack our own government, some need to try learning the history of the region and the regimes we are dealing with first.


I attack our government for a lot of reasons, specifically playing geopolitics and using the military for globalist advancement instead of defense.

Don't assume I am not familiar with history.




> Before just assuming "oh here goes that big ebil America again", and then spouting off with diarrhea of the mouth here with "america is bad, evil dictator is good" b.s.


Where did I say that?  Please feel free to point out where I said that Jong-un is "good".  If not, kindly refrain from making up my argument for me.  Thanks.

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littlejohn (03-31-2013),The XL (03-31-2013)

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## The XL

> Here we go folks, now the same anti-americans who have treasonously attempted to hamstring our nation in it's war efforts in both Iraq and Afghanistan, are going to just as they did with those wars, start to tell us all how great and grand the regime of North Korea is. 
> 
> You know I just once wish one of these individuals who always denigrate the United States and it's government, would go live under one of these regimes they argue to defend, like that of north Korea, for say three to five years and then come tell us all how grand the regime there is...


Anyone who supported the Iraq war was treasonous.  And anyone who can look back and think that war was justified is either delusional or evil.

Don't be calling anyone treasonous.  You shouldn't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

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## The XL

> No they are because, the regime there has repeatedly threatened with nuclear attack allied nations such as South Korea, and Taiwan, and Japan. You know nations we have mutual defense treaties with?
> 
> Nations we have on paper, sworn we will come to their defense if attacked militarily?
> 
> But I suppose we should instead just throw out the treaty which ended the war with Japan, (WWII) and instead allow Japan to build up it's own military with it's own offensive capability, so they can go invade Korea again right?
> 
> Really before spouting off at the mouth, to attack our own government, some need to try learning the history of the region and the regimes we are dealing with first.
> 
> Before just assuming "oh here goes that big ebil America again" as most libs do, and then spouting off with diarrhea of the mouth here with "america is bad, evil dictator is good" b.s.


It's not so much that we're bad and their good, it's the fact that other nations affairs are none of our business.  

And, really, our globalist foreign policy is not only evil, it's not in the best interest of our nation.

And I'm a libertarian, not a liberal.  I'm for smaller government than you are.

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## countryboy

> It's not so much that we're bad and their good, it's the fact that other nations affairs are none of our business.


Even if their affairs threaten us?

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## Guest

> Even if their affairs threaten us?


We were flying military jets over their podunk brokedown country.  Of course they thought we were threatening them.  Wouldn't you?  Say some far off country like....ohhhh...Russia was flying military jets over the US would you see it as them just having some fun or maybe a threat?

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## countryboy

> We were flying military jets over their podunk brokedown country.  Of course they thought we were threatening them.  Wouldn't you?  Say some far off country like....ohhhh...Russia was flying military jets over the US would you see it as them just having some fun or maybe a threat?


Oh yeah, I forgot everything is our fault. 

Oy vey...... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## The XL

> Even if their affairs threaten us?


We have not fought one legit war since WW2.

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## The XL

> Oh yeah, I forgot everything is our fault. 
> 
> Oy vey......


Is their something inaccurate about what she said?

We would not tolerate other nations doing to us what we do to them, and you know it.

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## countryboy

> We have not fought one legit war since WW2.


Sez you.

We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.

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## countryboy

> Is their something inaccurate about what she said?
> 
> We would not tolerate other nations doing to us what we do to them, and you know it.


Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.

Not that there's not plenty to blame us for, but for you people it's the first thing you go to.

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## The XL

> Sez you.
> 
> We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.


What war have we fought with a nation that threatened us?  

Yeah, you want more people to die for the Imperialistic states of Amerika.  You're a nice guy.

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## Guest

> Oh yeah, I forgot everything is our fault. 
> 
> Oy vey......


Stop with that crap.  It's just a fallacy.  I'm not some fucking tool that sits around thinking of things to dislike about the US.  Address the question or concede I'm right.

We would consider it an act of war.

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## The XL

> Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.


You're not very smart, are you?

Answer the question.  Would you tolerate it if another nation did to us as we do to them?

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## Guest

> Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.
> 
> Not that there's not plenty to blame us for, but for you people it's the first thing you go to.


Bullshit.  How about you?  Name something Obama's done that you like.  I'll wait.

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## The XL

> Stop with that crap.  It's just a fallacy.  I'm not some fucking tool that sits around thinking of things to dislike about the US.  Address the question or concede I'm right.
> 
> We would consider it an act of war.


He's a bloodthirsty "American" with a low IQ.  Take it easy on him.

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## countryboy

> Stop with that crap.  It's just a fallacy.  I'm not some fucking tool that sits around thinking of things to dislike about the US.  Address the question or concede I'm right.
> 
> We would consider it an act of war.


OK, you're right. Feel better now?

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## The XL

> Bullshit.  How about you?  Name something Obama's done that you like.  I'll wait.


It's different with Obama.  Because..........just because, you know?

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## countryboy

> He's a bloodthirsty "American" with a low IQ.  Take it easy on him.


Gorsh, what a burden it must be to always be the smarmiest.....er.....smartest person in the room.

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## countryboy

> Bullshit.  How about you?  Name something Obama's done that you like.  I'll wait.


What possible relevance does that have to this mud slinging fest?

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## The XL

It's nice to see we can fabricate bullshit wars that wind up needlessly killing our fine men and women, not to mention, innocent civilians, and not only will morons go along with it, they'll call you UnAmerican if you don't cheer the bloodshed on.

Absolutely fucking unreal.  If their is a hell, I hope it has a special place for warmongers.

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## The XL

> Gorsh, what a burden it must be to always be the smarmiest.....er.....smartest person in the room.


I'm not always the smartest guy in the room.  But when compared to brainless Neocons, I'm fucking Einstein.  You can bet on that.

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## Guest

> What possible relevance does that have to this mud slinging fest?


You're accusing me of being an America hater and I've yet to read a post of yours where you have a positive thing to say about this current government, so I just want to know why you feel the need to single me out for hating.

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## Guest

> OK, you're right. Feel better now?


I know I'm right.  We would consider it an act of war.

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## countryboy

> You're not very smart, are you?


Not compared to you, oh Great One. 

I bow before your superior intellect.  :Bow:

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## The XL

I love how he accuses us of slinging mud, when he pulled the UnAmerican card.  The funny thing is, if he used his brain, he'd see that the foreign policy we champion has American in its best interests, unlike his evil foreign policy, which only benefits the Globalists and other special interests.

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## countryboy

> I'm not always the smartest guy in the room.  But when compared to brainless Neocons, I'm fucking Einstein.  You can bet on that.


Speaking of brainless. I'm a neocon? That's nothing more than a made up term by America haters to describe anyone that disagrees with them.

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## The XL

> Not compared to you, oh Great One. 
> 
> I bow before your superior intellect.


You should.

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## countryboy

> I love how he accuses us of slinging mud, when he pulled the UnAmerican card.  The funny thing is, if he used his brain, he'd see that the foreign policy we champion has American in its best interests, unlike his evil foreign policy, which only benefits the Globalists and other special interests.


Oh no, you have me wrong. I'm a full participant of this mud slinging fest.  :Wink:

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## The XL

> Speaking of brainless. I'm a neocon? That's nothing more than a made up term by America haters to describe anyone that disagrees with them.


No, it describes bloodthirsy hawks who want to have our young men and women killed for no reason.  You fit that to a T.

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## Guest

> Speaking of brainless. I'm a neocon? That's nothing more than a made up term by America haters to describe anyone that disagrees with them.


LOL, you know that's a Newt term.  Come on now.   :Big Grin:

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## Calypso Jones

well. boys and girls...that's what happened when you had a democrat in the white house right after FDR.   I'm surprised you all are kickin' about this.

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## Guest

There's a lotta testosterone flying on this Easter Sunday.  I'm going to try and tone myself down as I eat my white soup and have some delicious mom baked honey ham.

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## The XL

If Obama invaded Israel tomorrow, would you be all for it?  Would anyone opposing it be UnAmerican?

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## Guest

> well. boys and girls...that's what happened when you had a democrat in the white house right after FDR.   I'm surprised you all are kickin' about this.


Yo @Calypso Jones  wassup on the grub side?  You're a gramma and it's Easter.

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## countryboy

> No, it describes bloodthirsy hawks who want to have our young men and women killed for no reason.  You fit that to a T.


Have you ever read any of my posting prior to this little tete-a-tete? Obviously not. I challenge you to come up with any material written by me to support your maniacal rantings.

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## Guest

> If Obama invaded Israel tomorrow, would you be all for it?  Would anyone opposing it be UnAmerican?


Damn, he threw down the sacred cow.  You know Israel could invade Georgia and no one would care.   :Smile:

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littlejohn (03-31-2013)

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## The XL

> Have you ever read any of my posting prior to this little tete-a-tete? Obviously not. I challenge you to come up with any material written by me to support your maniacal rantings.


I don't care what you've said in the past, what you've said in this thread is more than enough, frankly.

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## Guest

This is what I'm eating while you guys are still arguing:

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## countryboy

> I don't care what you've said in the past, what you've said in this thread is more than enough, frankly.


That's what I thought.

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## The XL

Well?  If Obama invaded Israel tomorrow, would you still be all, 'America, Fuck Yeah!'  How far does your blindly supporting anything this country does go?

Would you be down for it, or do you hate America?

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## The XL

> That's what I thought.


Is that a problem?  What you've said in this thread is MORE than enough.

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## countryboy

> Well?  If Obama invaded Israel tomorrow, would you still be all, 'America, Fuck Yeah!'  How far does your blindly supporting anything this country does go?
> 
> Would you be down for it, or do you hate America?


If you want to have an actual conversation, lemme know. 

You off your meds or sumpin'?

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## Guest

> If you want to have an actual conversation, lemme know. 
> 
> You off your meds or sumpin'?


I thought the conversation was over.  You conceded that if Russia flew planes over the US we'd consider it an act of war.

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The XL (03-31-2013)

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## The XL

> If you want to have an actual conversation, lemme know. 
> 
> You off your meds or sumpin'?


That's the second question of mind you dodged, the first one was when I asked if you'd tolerate in another country did to us what America does to them.

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## countryboy

> I thought the conversation was over.  You conceded that if Russia flew planes over the US we'd consider it an act of war.


Tell that to your buddy.  :Wink:

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## The XL

> I thought the conversation was over.  You conceded that if Russia flew planes over the US we'd consider it an act of war.


Yeah, but we're held to a different standard.  We can do whatever we want, and anyone who opposes it is Unamerican.

Get with the program, Riniie.

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## countryboy

> That's the second question of mind you dodged, the first one was when I asked if you'd tolerate in another country did to us what America does to them.


So I guess we're even. Produce anything I've posted that comes even remotely close to the way you've described me or, shut the fuck up.

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## Guest

I'll just go back to eating this delicious ham and sipping on the finest soup ever made.  Yes, I love being a slav.

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## The XL

> So I guess we're even. Produce anything I've posted that comes even remotely close to the way you've described me or, shut the fuck up.


You stated that America has fought legitimate wars since WW2, which is absolutely bullshit, and to top it off, you even had the nerve to insinuate that we didn't have enough troops in those wars, you wanted more bloodshed.  You've called me and Rina Unamerican for supporting our foreign policy.  You've also dodged my two questions.  You're a Neocon, straight up.  You gave me more than enough in this thread to come to that conclusion.

There.  That's more than enough.  You can kindly fuck off now.

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## countryboy

> You stated that America has fought legitimate wars since WW2, which is absolutely bullshit, and to top it off, you even had the nerve to insinuate that we didn't have enough troops in those wars, you wanted more bloodshed.  You've called me and Rina Unamerican for supporting our foreign policy.  You've also dodged my two questions.  You're a Neocon, straight up.  You gave me more than enough in this thread to come to that conclusion.
> 
> There.  That's more than enough.  You can kindly fuck off now.


For someone who beats their own drum about their supposed "superior intellect", you couldn't be any more off base. Have a nice day.  :Smile: 

Kids.....

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## Calypso Jones

> This is what I'm eating while you guys are still arguing:



charming.  Very old old world.

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## littlejohn

> Obama is not my President.
> 
> Good day.


Nor is he mine.

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## Calypso Jones

I'm trying so hard to turn over a new leaf...for Christ.  You guys are not making it easy.

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## The XL

> We have not fought one legit war since WW2.





> Sez you.
> 
> We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.


That's you saying we've fought legit wars since WW2, and "not being allowed to fight them as an actual war" is pretty much flat out admitting you wanted more troops, ergo, more bloodshed.



> Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.
> 
> Not that there's not plenty to blame us for, but for you people it's the first thing you go to.


There is you calling us Unamerican, or "blaming America first" for having a problem with our foreign policy.



And, yep, you still dodged my two questions.

----------


## countryboy

> I'm trying so hard to turn over a new leaf...for Christ.  You guys are not making it easy.


Don't let us steal your Grace CJ.  :Frown: 

I know I am not behaving well today, especially on this most Holy day. But, I just can't stand smarter-than-thou types, especially when they are quite obviously NOT. (That comment is not directed @Rina_Dragonborn in any way, shape, or form).

----------


## countryboy

> That's you saying we've fought legit wars since WW2, and "not being allowed to fight them as an actual war" is pretty much flat out admitting you wanted more troops, ergo, more bloodshed.
> 
> 
> There is you calling us Unamerican, or "blaming America first" for having a problem with our foreign policy.
> 
> 
> 
> And, yep, you still dodged my two questions.


You're so full of shit, MY eyes are brown. 

Do you have a habit of making shit up? [/RHETORICAL]

----------


## The XL

Well, I proved my statements to be correct, and you haven't answered either of my questions, so.....

----------


## The XL

> You're so full of shit, MY eyes are brown. 
> 
> Do you have a habit of making shit up? [/RHETORICAL]


Lmfao, are you fucking blind?  It's right in front of you, in your own words.

----------


## Guest

> I'm trying so hard to turn over a new leaf...for Christ.  You guys are not making it easy.


Yes, I know I thought I would rededicate myself this Easter.

----------


## Guest

> Don't let us steal your Grace CJ. 
> 
> I know I am not behaving well today, especially on this most Holy day. But, I just can't stand smarter-than-thou types, especially when they are quite obviously NOT. (That comment is not directed @Rina_Dragonborn in any way, shape, or form).


I'm eating soup and reading.

----------


## countryboy

> Well, I proved my statements to be correct, and you haven't answered either of my questions, so.....


You've proved nothing, as it your habit. You are reading things into my statements that even a casual observer can see are quite obviously not there. I have challenged you to produce evidence of myself being the person you are wrongly accusing me of being. You cannot. At the same time, you chide me for not answering your inane questions. Wow......

I would advise you to quit embarrassing yourself, but I suspect you don't have the capacity for shame.  :Wink:

----------


## Guest

> You've proved nothing, as it your habit. You are reading things into my statements that even a casual observer can see are quite obviously not there. I have challenged you to produce evidence of myself being the person you are wrongly accusing me of being. You cannot. At the same time, you chide me for not answering your inane questions. Wow......
> 
> I would advise you to quit embarrassing yourself, but I suspect you don't have the capacity for shame.


No one has yet to apologize for calling me anti-American or treasonous (thanks JohnAdams).  I'm not about to cry over it when I've got good food to eat.

----------


## The XL

> You've proved nothing, as it your habit. You are reading things into my statements that even a casual observer can see are quite obviously not there. I have challenged you to produce evidence of myself being the person you are wrongly accusing me of being. You cannot. At the same time, you chide me for not answering your inane questions. Wow......
> 
> I would advise you to quit embarrassing yourself, but I suspect you don't have the capacity for shame.


Look kid, I quoted the shit for you, in your own freaking words.  If anyone should be embarrassed, it should be you for lack of reading comprehension.

I have absolutely, 100% proved my statements to be true.  You are a bloodthirsty Neocon, the proof is in your own words.

Shame?  You champion this foreign policy, and deny your own statements.  Don't lecture me about shame, kid.

----------


## countryboy

> No one has yet to apologize for calling me anti-American or treasonous (thanks JohnAdams).  I'm not about to cry over it when I've got good food to eat.


I apologize for insinuating you are anti-American. I know you are not. It just bothers me that you _seem_ to have a tendency to blame America first. I know we are far from perfect, and perhaps you are correct to see a conspiracy behind every rock, but it just rubs me the wrong way.

You and my younger bro are two of a kind (with regards to NWO stuff), and I have these same conversations with him, if that's any consolation whatsoever.  :Big Grin:

----------



----------


## The XL

> Sez you.
> 
> We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.





> Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.
> 
> Not that there's not plenty to blame us for, but for you people it's the first thing you go to.


There is you both saying that we have fought legit wars since WW2, and calling me and Rina part of the "blame America first" crowd for not liking our foreign policy.

It's right there in front of you.  Seriously, if you push this further, I'm probably going to consider you mentally challenged.  This is ridiculous.

----------


## countryboy

> Look kid, I quoted the shit for you, in your own freaking words.  If anyone should be embarrassed, it should be you for lack of reading comprehension.
> 
> I have absolutely, 100% proved my statements to be true.  You are a bloodthirsty Neocon, the proof is in your own words.
> 
> Shame?  You champion this foreign policy, and deny your own statements.  Don't lecture me about shame, kid.


Whatever. I'm sure I'm old enough to be your grampa.......child.

Where did I mention anything about troop size? Oh, that's right, I didn't. And you are chiding me about reading comprehension? Wow.....

Get a fucking clue.

----------


## countryboy

> There is you both saying that we have fought legit wars since WW2, and calling me and Rina part of the "blame America first" crowd for not liking our foreign policy.
> 
> It's right there in front of you.  Seriously, if you push this further, I'm probably going to consider you mentally challenged.  This is ridiculous.


I have removed Rina from my "blame America first" list. You, on the other hand are still at the top.

----------


## The XL

> Whatever. I'm sure I'm old enough to be your grampa.......child.
> 
> Where did I mention anything about troop size? Oh, that's right, I didn't. And you are chiding me about reading comprehension? Wow.....
> 
> Get a fucking clue.


You were upset that we weren't allowed "for them to be fought as an actual war."  You wanted more bloodshed.  

It's pretty sad that an old folk such as yourself is as clueless as you are. 

People like you are responsible for the shape the country is in.  You should be ashamed of yourself.

----------


## The XL

> I have removed Rina from my "blame America first" list. You, on the other hand are still at the top.


That really means nothing to me, seeing as how you aren't a real American anyway.  You're just a clueless hack that follows whatever the media and government tells you to do, whether it hurts the country or not.  The globalists love suckers like you.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I'm thinking about changing my avatar to that of the character I most admire (_today_, anyway): Violet, the Dowager Countess of Grantham.  It goes against everything in me to get wrapped up in some silly PBS melodrama like "Downton Abbey", but there it is.  I find less and less in the 21st Century (that doesn't require electrical power) that is even _endurable_ -- and, that includes the entirety of today's dumbed-down, hopelessly corrupt political/economic situation.  
> 
> You irritated me early on by lashing out at me in what I thought to be an arbitrarily insulting manner, and so I began retaliating, like a mean-spirited child pulling the legs off of some hapless, captured insect, one by one.  That was wrong of me, and, a complete waste of time, for it doesn't improve me in any way simply to engage in a quid-pro-quo match of deprecations.  
> 
> So, you say you're a Liberal, but Obama is not your president.  Hmmm.  I'm an arch-Conservative, and no one has been "my" president since Ronald Reagan.  I suspect we'll never have an affinity for each other, but if "misery loves company", then we'll both walk through this 21st Century desolation where neither of us finds satisfaction or fulfillment with our national "leadership".  I find it compelling that as different as we are, we both obviously admire Theodore Roosevelt....
> 
> Parenthetically, North Korea can't be much of "threat", or concern, so long as we know we can turn the whole stinking Communist/Marxist/Socialist pile of shit into a glowing heap of ashes in two minutes.  But if that should ever change and/or Iran becomes equipped with nuclear weapons and delivery systems, then the situation will be different.  Like I said a few weeks ago, I'm very much in favor of destroying our enemies ("Axis of Evil", et al) before they gain strength and power!  But, like Violet, the Dowager Countess, I'm obviously an anachronism -- a relic from a bygone time in America, when the United States defended its borders, its sovereignty, and its ability to project power necessary for our survival.  How I _hate_ the 21st Century!


Hope it works out for you.

----------



----------


## The XL

I'm all for Pollycy, Countryboy, and John Adams fighting for what they believe in.  

I'm sure they'll sign up for our next war, whether it be with Korea, Syria, or Iran.

Have at it, boys.  Fight your own battles, for once.

----------


## countryboy

> You were upset that we weren't allowed "for them to be fought as an actual war."  You wanted more bloodshed.  
> 
> It's pretty sad that an old folk such as yourself is as clueless as you are. 
> 
> People like you are responsible for the shape the country is in.  You should be ashamed of yourself.


You can continue to make shit up, in true lib fashion. But all the feet stamping in the world doesn't make Alex Jones correct.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> People like you are responsible for the shape the country is in. You should be ashamed of yourself.


no...i think that would be the 'YES WE CAN' crowd.   You forget.  Our old folk DID fight those wars. They didn't start them, they didn't want them but they went...and they died.

----------


## littlejohn

USA involvement in NK is not a United Nations entanglement. Though it is true the UN backs the US/SK position, it is all about US imperialism going head to head with Russian imperialism. The fact that the Chinese eventually joined the war is a sidebar. The money and the impetus was driven from the USSR. Had the Russians not elected to stay home that day, they could have vetoed the UN resolution to militarily intervene. Alas, they were boycotting the UN at the time.

I am un-american in the sense that I dont have an opinion on who was right, or who had the moral high ground in the Korean conflict of 1950. Japan owned the place at the time, the US and Russia split it up and each took half at the end of WW II, and each went about their business of establishing what they thought was right. 

One of the things I used to think about a lot back in the Viet Nam days ... what does a rice farmer care ? YOU NOW HAVE FREEDOM AND CAN VOTE... uhh, ok, thank you , now let me tend my rice and please quit blowing shit up. 

In the present era, not many even remember the original conflict. Now, most fall back on their up-bringing, the thing they have heard all their lives.. we are the good guys and they are the bad guys... and We need for our infinite demand for cell phones and TV's to remain uninterrupted, thats for sure, thus there is a commercial motivation as well as political motivation to support our Imperialism. so there. Gas up the planes. lets go kick some commie ass.

i am un-american in that i dont see good guys and bad guys in this.

----------


## The XL

> You can continue to make shit up, in true lib fashion. But all the feet stamping in the world doesn't make Alex Jones correct.


Alex Jones is irrelevant to this discussion.  The fact of the matter is, every war we've fought since WW2 has been totally unnecessary, and with countries that were not a threat to us.  The same will go for Iran, Korea, and Syria.  

I haven't made one thing up this entire thread, speak for yourself.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Here we go folks, now the same anti-americans who have treasonously attempted to hamstring our nation in it's war efforts in both Iraq and Afghanistan, are going to just as they did with those wars, start to tell us all how great and grand the regime of North Korea is. 
> 
> You know I just once wish one of these individuals who always denigrate the United States and it's government, would go live under one of these regimes they argue to defend, like that of north Korea, for say three to five years and then come tell us all how grand the regime there is...


You know, it's really telling to me that when warhawks like you and @countryboy are presented with a long line of historical fact showing our government has created our foreign enemies almost entirely out of thin air, you can only resort to pontificating slander.

Here's a newsflash, John: I don't hate America, at all. I love her, probably more than you, because my love for this country isn't conditional. I loved this country when Bush was President. I love her now that Obama is President. I'd still love her if Romney was President. 

However, that does not mean I turn a blind eye when the evil men ruling over her do evil things. You may be completely willing to give Obama a pass on any blame for our foreign problems, but I'm not. He's a fucking idiot that, like his predecessor, has provoked nations like Iran and North Korea into hostility. 

Answer this simple question, John, and we'll see if you are actually capable of debating the facts instead of your feckless, hastily crafted strawmen:

Why is no country ever threatening Switzerland?

----------

The XL (03-31-2013)

----------


## countryboy

> That really means nothing to me, seeing as how you aren't a real American anyway.  You're just a clueless hack that follows whatever the media and government tells you to do, whether it hurts the country or not.  The globalists love suckers like you.


It is obvious that NOTHING means anything to you, other than your own deluded ravings. I hope you get professional help before you hurt someone. 

Again, my postings speak for themselves, which is why you can only obfuscate, and disinform. You got nuthin' little boy. Now run along and play.

----------


## The XL

> no...i think that would be the 'YES WE CAN' crowd.   You forget.  Our old folk DID fight those wars. They didn't start them, they didn't want them but they went...and they died.


Our old folk started my generations wars, and no, they didn't fight in those.

And stop with the crap, Obamas foreign policy is the same as Bushes.  The left and the right are both responsible.

----------


## The XL

> It is obvious that NOTHING means anything to you, other than your own deluded ravings. I hope you get professional help before you hurt someone. 
> 
> Again, my postings speak for themselves, which is why you can only obfuscate, and disinform. You got nuthin' little boy. Now run along and play.


You haven't made one point this entire thread, kid.  Everything I've said has been accurate as well.  Not to mention, you ducked and dodged my two questions like a prime Muhammad Ali.

You're an absolute joke.  People like you have ruined this country and screwed things up badly for my generation.

----------


## pjohns

> So what? How does any of that invalidate the fact that we've been threatening North Korea since the end of the Korean War?


I really should not be surprised that you have entirely ignored all of North Koreas's threats and bluster (as regarding which, I provided a link), and would prefer to focus, instead, upon America's (supposed) "threat[s]" against North Korea.

In another thread, you did the same thing with regard to Iran.

I have come to recognize the fact that you harbor a deep, visceral hatred of the US. (It is not that your views are very well aligned with those of the leaders--such as they are--of either Iran or North Korea; it is merely that Iran and North Korea have made themselves enemies of the US--and you appear to take comfort in that fact.)

----------


## Maximatic

America only exists because some overzealous governmentmakers got together and made an extra government so they could tell a bunch of other governments what to do. I _hate_ America.

----------


## countryboy

> You know, it's really telling to me that when warhawks like you and @countryboy are presented with a long line of historical fact showing our government has created our foreign enemies almost entirely out of thin air, you can only resort to pontificating slander.


I'll present you with the same challenge I presented to XS, produce anything I have written in these forums which would even remotely reveal me as a "war hawk". He wasn't up to the challenge. Are you?

----------


## The XL

> I really should not be surprised that you have entirely ignored all of North Koreas's threats and bluster (as regarding which, I provided a link), and would prefer to focus, instead, upon America's (supposed) "threat[s]" against North Korea.
> 
> In another thread, you did the same thing with regard to Iran.
> 
> I have come to recognize the fact that you harbor a deep, visceral hatred of the US. (It is not that your views are very well aligned with those of the leaders--such as they are--of either Iran or North Korea; it is merely that Iran and North Korea have made themselves enemies of the US--and you appear to take comfort in that fact.)


What gives you the right to question Thinkers patriotism?  Just because he has a functioning brain does not mean that he doesn't love this country.

----------


## The XL

> I'll present you with the same challenge I presented to XS, produce anything I have written in these forums which would even remotely reveal me as a "war hawk". He wasn't up to the challenge. Are you?


I already did.   You just can't read, and apparently are senile, forgetting that you wrote it a mere couple of hours ago.

----------


## countryboy

> You haven't made one point this entire thread, kid.  Everything I've said has been accurate as well.  Not to mention, you ducked and dodged my two questions like a prime Muhammad Ali.
> 
> You're an absolute joke.  People like you have ruined this country and screwed things up badly for my generation.


You're a legend in your own mind.

----------


## The XL

Anyone who champions our foreign policy, thinks we've had legitimate wars since WW2, and wanted to escalate said wars is a "war hawk"

----------


## The XL

> You're a legend in your own mind.


I could say the same thing to you.  At least what I say has merit, which cannot be said about the garbage you write.

----------


## countryboy

> America only exists because some overzealous governmentmakers got together and made an extra government so they could tell a bunch of other governments what to do. I _hate_ America.


At least you're honest, unlike some of your ilk around here. Props.

----------


## The XL

> At least you're honest, unlike some of your ilk around here. Props.


You want us in wars that kill good men and women, weaken us financially, and raise our risk of blowback.

Maybe you should be honest and admit that you hate America too.

----------


## countryboy

> I already did.   You just can't read, and apparently are senile, forgetting that you wrote it a mere couple of hours ago.


Nah, you never did. You just make shit up out of whole cloth, like any other lib.

----------


## Guest

Dear Lawdy Jesus!


Gentlemen, please.  This is gone beyond the pale.  No one has any right ANY RIGHT to question someone's loyalty to their country off the basis of what they feel we should do with our foreign policy, nor should anyone wallow in the mud of insults on this holy day of rebirth and forgiveness.

A bunch of grown damn men acting like two year olds--all of you!  

::slurps her Easter soup::

Seriously.

----------


## countryboy

> I could say the same thing to you.  At least what I say has merit, which cannot be said about the garbage you write.


Yes, you could say the same thing about me, at least you'd be consistently FOS. Oh wait, you already are.

----------


## countryboy

> Dear Lawdy Jesus!
> 
> 
> Gentlemen, please.  This is gone beyond the pale.  No one has any right ANY RIGHT to question someone's loyalty to their country off the basis of what they feel we should do with our foreign policy, nor should anyone wallow in the mud of insults on this holy day of rebirth and forgiveness.
> 
> A bunch of grown damn men acting like two year olds--all of you!  
> 
> ::slurps her Easter soup::
> 
> Seriously.


I'll drink to that darlin'. 

But yer buddy is still a dick.  :Big Grin:

----------


## Guest

I'm sure the Dear Lord would appreciate this today.  Carry on with the insults.

::slurps soup::

----------


## Guest

> I'll drink to that darlin'. 
> 
> But yer buddy is still a dick.


He's a bit aggro but that's because he's not slavic and doesn't have honey ham, deviled eggs, white soup, and cheesecake waiting for him to eat.

----------


## The XL

> Nah, you never did. You just make shit up out of whole cloth, like any other lib.


I already posted it twice.  You're just senile and can't read, apparently.  

You're the progressive here, you're just a Republican progressive.  A slightly different flavor of big government, but it's still big government.

----------


## countryboy

> He's a bit aggro but that's because he's not slavic and doesn't have honey ham, deviled eggs, white soup, and cheesecake waiting for him to eat.


I have to admit, your spread looks mighty good.  :Smile:

----------



----------


## The XL

> I'll drink to that darlin'. 
> 
> But yer buddy is still a dick.



Hey, I'm not the asshole that's a-ok with our young men and women, not to mention, innocent civilians dying for no real reason.  I actually give a fuck about those people, which is a lot more than what can be said about you.

But, by all means, carry on.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Dear Lawdy Jesus!
> 
> 
> Gentlemen, please.  This is gone beyond the pale.  No one has any right ANY RIGHT to question someone's loyalty to their country off the basis of what they feel we should do with our foreign policy, nor should anyone wallow in the mud of insults on this holy day of rebirth and forgiveness.
> 
> A bunch of grown damn men acting like two year olds--all of you!  
> 
> ::slurps her Easter soup::
> 
> Seriously.


Not every American who opposes our foreign policy hates America, but every American who hates America hates our foreign policy as a matter of course.  I can see where that gets confusing.

----------

pjohns (04-01-2013)

----------


## countryboy

> I already posted it twice.  You're just senile and can't read, apparently.  
> 
> You're the progressive here, you're just a Republican progressive.  A slightly different flavor of big government, but it's still big government.


Please produce actual quotes from me stating any of the bullshite you've made up about me. Including what you just said above. Calling me a big government progressive is silly in the extreme, and anyone with half a brain (other than you) knows it. Laughable really.

----------


## Guest

> Not every American who opposes our foreign policy hates America, but every American who hates America does.  I can see where that gets confusing.


You'd have to be a mind reader or have Christ's ability to judge hearts to know this since I can only measure a slight guess as to who people are from their posts.  I assume that most people have a depth of feeling, expertise, and philosophy that can't be encapsulated in a forum post.  I only feel I know someone after speaking with them.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> You'd have to be a mind reader or have Christ's ability to judge hearts to know this since I can only measure a slight guess as to who people are from their posts.  I assume that most people have a depth of feeling, expertise, and philosophy that can't be encapsulated in a forum post.  I only feel I know someone after speaking with them.


People aren't as inscrutable as you make them out to be. Most are all too willing to advertise what's going on in their heart.

----------

pjohns (04-01-2013)

----------


## The XL

Honestly, I'm beginning to think you're actually retarded.  




> Sez you.
> 
> We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.


Here you are, saying that we have indeed fought legit wars since WW2, and voicing disappointment over the fact that we didn't take them further.




> Dude, you people are the "blame America first" crowd. Own it.
> 
> Not that there's not plenty to blame us for, but for you people it's the first thing you go to.


Here you are, calling me part of the "blame America first" crowd for voicing my disappointment with our foreign policy.



Supporting our imperialistic wars and championing our foreign policy is what makes you a Republican progressive.

----------


## Guest

> People aren't as inscrutable as you make them out to be. Most are all too willing to advertise what's going on in their heart.


Nah, some people troll more than you think, Mike.  Ethereal is a completely different dude in real life than his forum posts, for example.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I really should not be surprised that you have entirely ignored all of North Koreas's threats and bluster (as regarding which, I provided a link), and would prefer to focus, instead, upon America's (supposed) "threat[s]" against North Korea.
> 
> In another thread, you did the same thing with regard to Iran.
> 
> I have come to recognize the fact that you harbor a deep, visceral hatred of the US. (It is not that your views are very well aligned with those of the leaders--such as they are--of either Iran or North Korea; it is merely that Iran and North Korea have made themselves enemies of the US--and you appear to take comfort in that fact.)


Clearly, I have not ignored the threats both Iran and North Korea have posed to us. My argument is that those threats are not just out of the blue, they came for a reason.

----------


## countryboy

> Honestly, I'm beginning to think you're actually retarded.  
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are, saying that we have indeed fought legit wars since WW2, and voicing disappointment over the fact that we didn't take them further.
> 
> 
> 
> Here you are, calling me part of the "blame America first" crowd for voicing my disappointment with our foreign policy.
> ...


And where exactly did I state I thought more troops should have been used, or combat escalated? I mean actual quotes from me, not you reading words into my statements.

And no, I didn't call you a part of the "blame America first" crowd for voicing your disappointment at our foreign policy decisions, I called you that for voicing your misperceptions about our foreign policy decisions. And jumping to the conclusion that there is only nefarious reasoning behind them. Like all of you Alex Jones worshipping drones do. Can you not understand that human beings sometimes make bad decisions?

----------

pjohns (04-01-2013)

----------


## Guest

The only question people should ask themselves is this: if Russia flew military jets over the US would we be cool with that?  If no, then we ought to see why North Korea is all talking tough with us.

The fact is that while North Korea is a horrible dictatorship, we're not Team America World Police.  That's their people's problem.  In the dark of night when they shut down all the power to conserve energy the people go could apeshit and rebel.  They don't.  Not my problem.

Their missiles can't hit out West Coast, and they are less of a threat than China who not only owns our debt, but has long range missiles.  We could put a little reality to our priorities here, but what fun is it in doing that?

----------


## Guest

> And where exactly did I state I thought more troops should have been used, or combat escalated? I mean actual quotes from me, not you reading words into my statements.
> 
> And no, I didn't call you a part of the "blame America first" crowd for voicing your disappointment at our foreign policy decisions, I called you that for voicing your misperceptions about our foreign policy decisions. And jumping to the conclusion that there is only nefarious reasoning behind them. Like all of you Alex Jones worshipping drones do. Can you not understand that human beings sometimes make bad decisions?


Wellllllll....our foreign policy decisions can be cross referenced against CFR white papers.  They are thought out decisions by people who have particular economic aims, not necessarily American aims.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I'll present you with the same challenge I presented to XS, produce anything I have written in these forums which would even remotely reveal me as a "war hawk". He wasn't up to the challenge. Are you?


On page four, in response to @The XL's assertion that we haven't fought a single legit war since WWII, you said, and I quote:




> We have fought legit wars, just not allowed them to be fought as an actual war. Which is an absolute travesty.


That means the Korean War, Vietnam War, Bosnia, both Iraqs, Afghanistan, Libya, and Yemen, along with tons of minor wars. 

Someone who is not a warhawk would lament the fact that those were even fought, rather than lamenting that they weren't fought "as an actual war."

----------

The XL (03-31-2013)

----------


## countryboy

> Hey, I'm not the asshole that's a-ok with our young men and women, not to mention, innocent civilians dying for no real reason.  I actually give a fuck about those people, which is a lot more than what can be said about you.
> 
> But, by all means, carry on.


Yeah again, where did I say I was "a-ok" with that? Actual quotes please. 

I would have to think that even your buds would come out against you putting words in my mouth, but oddly, and much to my disappointment, they have not. Hmmmmm.....

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> The only question people should ask themselves is this: if Russia flew military jets over the US would we be cool with that?  If no, then we ought to see why North Korea is all talking tough with us.
> 
> The fact is that while North Korea is a horrible dictatorship, we're not Team America World Police.  That's their people's problem.  In the dark of night when they shut down all the power to conserve energy the people go could apeshit and rebel.  They don't.  Not my problem.
> 
> Their missiles can't hit out West Coast, and they are less of a threat than China who not only owns our debt, but has long range missiles.  We could put a little reality to our priorities here, but what fun is it in doing that?


What jets are we flying over NK airspace?

----------


## The XL

> And where exactly did I state I thought more troops should have been used, or combat escalated? I mean actual quotes from me, not you reading words into my statements.
> 
> And no, I didn't call you a part of the "blame America first" crowd for voicing your disappointment at our foreign policy decisions, I called you that for voicing your misperceptions about our foreign policy decisions. And jumping to the conclusion that there is only nefarious reasoning behind them. Like all of you Alex Jones worshipping drones do. Can you not understand that human beings sometimes make bad decisions?


Even giving you the benefit of the doubt in regards to whether or not you wanted combat escalated, it still does not change the fact that you both championed our foreign policy, justified the wars, and even sounded disappointed that we didn't "fight them like real wars"

You're the only one here talking about Alex Jones, I'm not.  Making "bad decisions" when speaking of war and human life is unacceptable, I refuse to accept that as an excuse.

And I also don't see why I'd give the benefit of the doubt to a government that would have gone through with Operation Northwoods if not for Kennedy, a government that lied to get us into Vietnam with the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

----------


## The XL

> Yeah again, where did I say I was "a-ok" with that? Actual quotes please. 
> 
> I would have to think that even your buds would come out against you putting words in my mouth, but oddly, and much to my disappointment, they have not. Hmmmmm.....


If you support our foreign policy and justify our needless wars, you're okay with it.  If you weren't okay with it, you'd be against our FP.

It's that simple, really.

----------


## Guest

> Yeah again, where did I say I was "a-ok" with that? Actual quotes please. 
> 
> I would have to think that even your buds would come out against you putting words in my mouth, but oddly, and much to my disappointment, they have not. Hmmmmm.....


What words is he putting into your mouth that you didn't say?  I'm having trouble keeping up with this.

----------


## The XL

> What words is he putting into your mouth that you didn't say?  I'm having trouble keeping up with this.


Do you see the insanity I'm dealing with?  This guy is senile.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> What words is he putting into your mouth that you didn't say?  I'm having trouble keeping up with this.


You still haven't answered my question.

----------


## countryboy

> On page four, in response to @The XL's assertion that we haven't fought a single legit war since WWII, you said, and I quote:
> 
> 
> 
> That means the Korean War, Vietnam War, Bosnia, both Iraqs, Afghanistan, Libya, and Yemen, along with tons of minor wars. 
> 
> Someone who is not a warhawk would lament the fact that those were even fought, rather than lamenting that they weren't fought "as an actual war."


I lament the fact that *any* war has *ever* been fought. I also lament the FACT that brave souls are EVER sent into battle with "rules of engagement" that essentially tie both hands behind their backs. Are you in favor of that? Should I assume you are? 

And just because I stated that I thought there had been legit wars since WW2, why would you assume that means I think ALL wars since WW2 have been legit? Honestly TRAT, I'm a little disappointed in you.  :Frown:  I always thought more highly of you. I know we have our disagreements (and how), but I still felt you were a good person. I'm not yet prepared to say I don't still think that, but I am greatly saddened by your comments.  :Frown:

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> What jets are we flying over NK airspace?


B-2 bombers, mostly. I linked to it back on page 1 or 2.

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## countryboy

> What words is he putting into your mouth that you didn't say?  I'm having trouble keeping up with this.


Then perhaps you should go back and review the entire exchange. It really isn't rocket science.

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## Guest

You know, people need to calm down on this thread and change the rhetoric.  I'm not really prepared to lose the spirit of Easter love and forgiveness over stupid politics.

Can we all just take a step back and breathe?

What did everyone eat?

I had ham flavored with honey, awesome potatoes, white soup--yes, I've mentioned it, great asparagas, and the best cheesecake.

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## Guest

> Then perhaps you should go back and review the entire exchange. It really isn't rocket science.


Hey!  No need to be mean.  I'm trying to make peace over here.

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## Irascible Crusader

> B-2 bombers, mostly. I linked to it back on page 1 or 2.


Why do we need to fly aircraft over NK in the age of surveillance satellites?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I lament the fact that *any* war has *ever* been fought. I also lament the FACT that brave souls are EVER sent into battle with "rules of engagement" that essentially tie both hands behind their backs. Are you in favor of that? Should I assume you are?


No, sir. I was just offering my interpretation of your statement. Now that you've clarified it, I see I was incorrect, and retract my statement.




> And just because I stated that I thought there had been legit wars since WW2, why would you assume that means I think ALL wars since WW2 have been legit? Honestly TRAT, I'm a little disappointed in you.  I always thought more highly of you. I know we have our disagreements (and how), but I still felt you were a good person. I'm not yet prepared to say I don't still think that, but I am greatly saddened by your comments.


Sorry, man. I misread it. That was my goof, not yours. 

Which wars would you consider legit?

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countryboy (03-31-2013)

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## Irascible Crusader

> You know, people need to calm down on this thread and change the rhetoric.  I'm not really prepared to lose the spirit of Easter love and forgiveness over stupid politics.
> 
> Can we all just take a step back and breathe?
> 
> What did everyone eat?
> 
> I had ham flavored with honey, awesome potatoes, white soup--yes, I've mentioned it, great asparagas, and the best cheesecake.


Stop derailing the thread topic or I'll stuff you with marshmallows, candy and roast you like a ham, and then cover you with chocolate!

----------


## countryboy

> The only question people should ask themselves is this: if Russia flew military jets over the US would we be cool with that?  If no, then we ought to see why North Korea is all talking tough with us.
> 
> The fact is that while North Korea is a horrible dictatorship, we're not Team America World Police.  That's their people's problem.  In the dark of night when they shut down all the power to conserve energy the people go could apeshit and rebel.  They don't.  Not my problem.
> 
> Their missiles can't hit out West Coast, and they are less of a threat than China who not only owns our debt, but has long range missiles.  We could put a little reality to our priorities here, but what fun is it in doing that?


Does it really matter what the range of their ICBMs are? Do you really think they are above placing fissile material into the wrong hands? Really?

----------


## Guest

> Why do we need to fly aircraft over NK in the age of surveillance satellites?


We were pretending to be North Korea in an exercise with the South and because they're so fucking grumpy and forget they are the size of a flea they got all pissy.

Even China told them to sit down and shut the fuck up.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Why do we need to fly aircraft over NK in the age of surveillance satellites?


Posturing. A surveillance satellite is generally in space, and a drone would probably make them shrug it off. Actual bombers is more than just "we're watching you," it's an outright, "go ahead, try something, see how fast we eliminate you."

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## Guest

> Does it really matter what the range of their ICBMs are? Do you really think they are above placing fissile material into the wrong hands? Really?


I do not see them as the threat that you do, no.  Sorry.  Russia and China agree.  North Korea can't even keep its own lights on.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> We were pretending to be North Korea in an exercise with the South and because they're so fucking grumpy and forget they are the size of a flea they got all pissy.
> 
> Even China told them to sit down and shut the fuck up.


Especially since they fly rockets over Japan all the time.  I don't think that Kim Jon Stepstool Jr. is going to be any different than his father.

----------


## Guest

> Stop derailing the thread topic or I'll stuff you with marshmallows, candy and roast you like a ham, and then cover you with chocolate!


I just am having such a happy Easter, I just don't like seeing everyone so grumpy.  I feel all positive and happy.   :Big Grin:

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## Guest

> Especially since they fly rockets over Japan all the time.  I don't think that Kim Jon Stepstool Jr. is going to be any different than his father.


They're tedious.  They don't want to be ignored, they want to seem like a credible threat.  I'd just ignore them.

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## countryboy

> Do you see the insanity I'm dealing with?  This guy is senile.


Look sonny Jim, I only said I was old enough to be your grampa because I have a 14 year old grand daughter. And frankly, you're behaving like a 14 year old girl.

I'm not quite senile yet.

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## Guest

I have a tape measure, is it time yet for you guys just whip 'em out and measure them?

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## countryboy

> I just am having such a happy Easter, I just don't like seeing everyone so grumpy.  I feel all positive and happy.


Don't let us grouches spoil yer Easter. Just ignore us. I know, I know, easier said than done.

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## The XL

> Then perhaps you should go back and review the entire exchange. It really isn't rocket science.


Hah! Speak for yourself.

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## The XL

> Look sonny Jim, I only said I was old enough to be your grampa because I have a 14 year old grand daughter. And frankly, you're behaving like a 14 year old girl.
> 
> I'm not quite senile yet.


Again, speak for yourself.  

Honestly, this is tiresome.  I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time with you at this point.

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## The XL

> I have a tape measure, is it time yet for you guys just whip 'em out and measure them?


I had a good joke, but I'll decide not to go there, haha.

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## countryboy

> I have a tape measure, is it time yet for you guys just whip 'em out and measure them?


I don't think Extra Small could stand the embarrassment. 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  :Big Grin:

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Irascible Crusader (03-31-2013)

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## The XL

> I don't think Extra Small could stand the embarrassment. 
> 
> Sorry, I couldn't resist.


You're at the age where you need to take pills to get it up, no?

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## Guest



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Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-31-2013)

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## countryboy

> You're at the age where you need to take pills to get it up, no?


Not necessarily, but that still wouldn't effect size.  :Wink:

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Again, speak for yourself.  
> 
> Honestly, this is tiresome.  I'm not even sure why I'm wasting my time with you at this point.


Nor am I. 

Look, XL, I think of you as a bro. You may not, that's cool. But man...you're really not doing yourself justice. You are really smart, probably smarter than me, but you gotta rethink your approach. @countryboy isn't a bad dude (even if he rankles my nerves somethin' fierce sometimes  :Big Grin: ), and neither are you. I don't like watching you two fight when you should be buds. You are not his enemy, and he is not yours.

So both a' y'all, shake hands and hug it out, 'cause this is ridiculous for both of you. The REAL Enemy _wants_ us to be divided, but we can't afford that.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> 


That looks delicious, dear  :Big Grin:

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## Guest

> Nor am I. 
> 
> Look, XL, I think of you as a bro. You may not, that's cool. But man...you're really not doing yourself justice. You are really smart, probably smarter than me, but you gotta rethink your approach. @countryboy isn't a bad dude (even if he rankles my nerves somethin' fierce sometimes ), and neither are you. I don't like watching you two fight when you should be buds. You are not his enemy, and he is not yours.
> 
> So both a' y'all, shake hands and hug it out, 'cause this is ridiculous for both of you. The REAL Enemy _wants_ us to be divided, but we can't afford that.



I tried the Easter approach.  Peace, love, and hugging it out aint working.

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## Guest

> That looks delicious, dear


I'm letting it sit a bit so I can get secondses.

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-31-2013)

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## Irascible Crusader

> I tried the Easter approach.  Peace, love, and hugging it out aint working.


TRAT was hoping he could watch the guys hug it out. (he's bi)

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-31-2013)

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## Guest

This thread is roadkill!

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> TRAT was hoping he could watch the guys hug it out. (he's bi)

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I tried the Easter approach.  Peace, love, and hugging it out aint working.


Pesach approach for me  :Big Grin:

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## countryboy

> No, sir. I was just offering my interpretation of your statement. Now that you've clarified it, I see I was incorrect, and retract my statement.


Thank you.






> Sorry, man. I misread it. That was my goof, not yours.


Thanks again, that means a lot to me, believe it or not.  :Smile: 




> Which wars would you consider legit?


Well now, isn't that a sticky wicket? You've forced me to actually think long and hard about this. But don't interpret that to mean that I haven't previously done so.

I think the communist threat was real, IMHO. So, Korea, and Vietnam were, in a sense, legit wars from an ideological standpoint. But again, the way they were prosecuted was bungled to the nth degree. So I am forced to ask myself, were they truly legit wars? I would have to say yes, and no. The threat was real, so yes. Prosecution, absolutely not. 

Gulf War, and Iraq War. Both, in my opinion, were legit. The Gulf war was at least prosecuted closer to what I would consider legitimately. I think it would have been preferable to go all the way to Baghdad  but I do understand the political climate, and why HW decided not to. Mistake in my opinion.

Iraq is a little different. I realize you all think the justification for war was manufactured. And maybe in some ways it was. But we knew they had chem and bio weaponry, and we knew they were in cahoots with those who would use them against us. Actually, practically the entire world knew, and said so. I don't want to rehash the entire scenario, we've been there, done that. I will say though, I think there are some who discount the whole yellow cake thing too readily. Yes, we already knew about it, so what. If anything, I think that adds validity to the war. 

Also, we cannot ignore all of the stalling, and satellite imagery of truck, after truck, after truck, leaving Iraq during the stalling period. What was in those trucks? Should we have simply ignored them? A lot of those trucks were heading to Syria. Does that mean I am in favor of war with Syria now? Not necessarily.  To be honest, with the way we've prosecuted war since Korea, and Vietnam, I don't think our government has the mandate to ever prosecute another war ever again. And that is especially sucky, because the threats certainly do exist, there's no doubt in my mind. So where does that leave us? FUBAR......

Rest assured, I do lament any and all war. I wish it was *never* a necessary evil. If I could wave a magic wand that would cause world peace, I would do so without hesitation. But I cannot.

----------

pjohns (04-01-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-31-2013)

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## Guest

And once we bring up Iraq and Afghanistan as legitimate my thread participation must come to an end lest I lose my Easter good will and go TNT superfly angry.

Adios all.

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## Irascible Crusader

So we are justified in invading sovereign nations if we think they might have a no-no?

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> And once we bring up Iraq and Afghanistan as legitimate my thread participation must come to an end lest I lose my Easter good will and go TNT superfly angry.
> 
> Adios all.


We?  I only saw one person do that.

----------


## Guest

> We?  I only saw one person do that.


You know I can't talk that one and keep my cool.  Know thyself.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again, that means a lot to me, believe it or not. 
> 
> 
> ...


I can respect that, even if I don't completely agree.

----------


## pjohns

> What gives you the right to question Thinkers patriotism? Just because he has a functioning brain does not mean that he doesn't love this country.


I have noted that he has expressed contempt for America, as regarding both Iran's finger-in-the-eye approach to Uncle Sam, and North Korea's similar approach.

Would you prefer that I simply ignore that?

----------


## pjohns

> Anyone who champions our foreign policy, thinks we've had legitimate wars since WW2, and wanted to escalate said wars is a "war hawk"


This probably says all we need to know about you...

----------


## pjohns

> Clearly, I have not ignored the threats both Iran and North Korea have posed to us. My argument is that those threats are not just out of the blue, they came for a reason.


I have already called you on the matter of Iran (whose leadership, you apparently believe, is still upset about an incident that some people believe happened about 60 years ago--and which is entirely irrelevant to the year 2013).

There is probably no point in our re-hashing that.

Now, perhaps, you would like to inform me as to why North Korea has been so bellicose for the past 60 years?

----------


## pjohns

> The only question people should ask themselves is this: if Russia flew military jets over the US would we be cool with that? If no, then we ought to see why North Korea is all talking tough with us.


It is my understanding that the B-52 that flew over the Korean Peninsula did not violate North Korean airspace.

So the two situations are not at all analogous...

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I have already called you on the matter of Iran (whose leadership, you apparently believe, is still upset about an incident that some people believe happened about 60 years ago--and which is entirely irrelevant to the year 2013).
> 
> There is probably no point in our re-hashing that.
> 
> Now, perhaps, you would like to inform me as to why North Korea has been so bellicose for the past 60 years?


I'd say it's probably because we stuck our nose in their civil war. Koreans, more than any other Asian race, are very territorial and racist. They don't like non-Koreans, even other Asians. For a non-Korean nation to then step foot on their sovereign soil, kill Koreans, and then tell Koreans how to run their nation would be a grievous insult.

----------


## pjohns

> I...don't see why I'd give the benefit of the doubt to a government that would have gone through with Operation Northwoods if not for Kennedy, a government that lied to get us into Vietnam with the Gulf of Tonkin incident.


So, your supreme distaste for our government in America is predicated upon matters that occurred about half a century ago?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> So, your supreme distaste for our government in America is predicated upon matters that occurred about half a century ago?


No, it's predicated on evil actions of our government from about 1898 until...let me think..._yesterday_.

----------


## pjohns

> I'd say it's probably because we stuck our nose in their civil war. Koreans, more than any other Asian race, are very territorial and racist. They don't like non-Koreans, even other Asians.


Somehow, South Koreans do not appear to be especially offended by the US...




> For a non-Korean nation to then step foot on their sovereign soil, kill Koreans, and then tell Koreans how to run their nation would be a grievous insult.


I find it rather instructive that you would describe as a mere "civil war" the attempt of one group to annex another group, against the latter's will.

Moreover, I do not believe that America has attempted to instruct North Korea as regarding their internal affairs...

----------


## pjohns

> No, [my supreme distaste for the US government is] predicated on evil actions of our government from about 1898 until...let me think..._yesterday_.


At least you now admit precisely what I have already noted: i.e. that you *hate* the US government.

And that is enormously different from one's simply having some differences--even _significant_ differences--over policy matters...

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Somehow, South Koreans do not appear to be especially offended by the US...


Until an American tries to marry a South Korean. Besides, when a far stronger nation comes in and promises you protection and other nice things like free trade if you do as they say, you tend to overlook cultural hang-ups.




> I find it rather instructive that you would describe as a mere "civil war" the attempt of one group to annex another group, against the latter's will.


Is that not exactly what our Civil War was about? Quite frankly, I don't care if it offends your PC sensibilities, I'm not going to redefine words. It was a civil war. Now, if, say, Brazil decided to attack and annex Italy, that would not be a civil war. But that wasn't the case. It was Koreans against Koreans.




> Moreover, I do not believe that America has attempted to instruct North Korea as regarding their internal affairs...


Good god, man, are you serious?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> At least you now admit precisely what I have already noted: i.e. that you *hate* the US government.
> 
> And that is enormously different from one's simply having some differences--even _significant_ differences--over policy matters...


Of course I do. I loathe and distrust all governments, in keeping with the philosophy of the founders. Especially evil governments. 

If that's what you wanted to know, you should have said that from the beginning, instead of blathering on about me hating America (which I don't).

----------


## pjohns

> I loathe and distrust all governments, in keeping with the philosophy of the founders.


Actually, the Founders favored *limited government*.

They were not proponents of *anarchy*...




> If that's what you wanted to know, you should have said that from the beginning, instead of blathering on about me hating America (which I don't).


What I said (in post #188 in this thread) is that you "*hate* the US government." (Bold in original) 

Are you now denying that this is an accurate assessment?

----------


## pjohns

> Until an American tries to marry a South Korean. Besides, when a far stronger nation comes in and promises you protection and other nice things like free trade if you do as they say, you tend to overlook cultural hang-ups.


Do you just make up these things as you go? 




> Is [the attempt of one group to annex another group, against the latter's will] not exactly what our Civil War was about?


In a word: *No*. 




> Good god, man, are you serious?


The old simile concerning *a heart attack* leaps to mind...

----------


## The XL

> This probably says all we need to know about you...


Yeah.  I actually know what I'm talking about, and you don't.

----------


## The XL

> So, your supreme distaste for our government in America is predicated upon matters that occurred about half a century ago?


No, it's also our terrible current foreign policy, among MANY other things. 

But yeah, I'm sure our government suddenly went from evil to good over a couple of generations.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Actually, the Founders favored *limited government*.
> 
> They were not proponents of *anarchy*...


I didn't say they were. I said they believed we should dislike and distrust all government.




> What I said (in post #188 in this thread) is that you "*hate* the US government." (Bold in original) 
> 
> Are you now denying that this is an accurate assessment?


No? I just said I did hate our government.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Do you just make up these things as you go?


No, actually.




> In a word: *No*.


Really? So, when the South seceded, Lincoln did not declare war on them to reassert Union dominance over the region?




> The old simile concerning *a heart attack* leaps to mind...


Well, then I'm sorry for you.

----------


## pjohns

> I didn't say they were. I said they believed we should dislike and distrust all government.


You seem to *especially* dislike the American government...




> No? I just said I did hate our government.


You criticized me for (supposedly) "blathering on about [your] hating America." 

What I really said is that you hate *the American government*.

As you have now admitted...

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> You seem to *especially* dislike the American government...


Of course, because it's my government. The actions of our government affect me directly on a day to day basis. 

What's your point? Get to it already.




> You criticized me for (supposedly) "blathering on about [your] hating America." 
> 
> What I really said is that you hate *the American government*.
> 
> As you have now admitted...


No, that came after. You first stated that I had a "visceral" hatred of America.

----------


## pjohns

> Of course [I hate the US government more than other governments], because it's my government. The actions of our government affect me directly on a day to day basis.


Liberals, libertarians, and anarchists--I will allow you to choose which most nearly describes you--all seem to hew to this Hate America First ethic...




> No, that came after. You first stated that I had a "visceral" hatred of America.


Even prior to my observation, in post #185 in this thread, that you have a "supreme distaste for our government in America," I had commented that you "hate the US government" in post #181.

This is all within the context of a thread in which I had noted your tacit approval of "both Iran's finger-in-the-eye approach to Uncle Sam, and North Korea's similar approach." 

Given this context, it should be obvious that my references to your "contempt for America" refer to *the US government*...

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Liberals, libertarians, and anarchists--I will allow you to choose which most nearly describes you--all seem to hew to this Hate America First ethic...


But I don't hate America, at all. Just our government. Not sure why this is such a hard concept for you to grasp.




> Even prior to my observation, in post #185 in this thread, that you have a "supreme distaste for our government in America," I had commented that you "hate the US government" in post #181.
> 
> This is all within the context of a thread in which I had noted your tacit approval of "both Iran's finger-in-the-eye approach to Uncle Sam, and North Korea's similar approach." 
> 
> Given this context, it should be obvious that my references to your "contempt for America" refer to *the US government*...


So you love our government, then?

----------


## The XL

I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would like our government, frankly.

----------


## JohnAdams

> I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would like our government, frankly.


Uh perhaps because a Republic, wherein the people themselves govern themselves is the most free, just, and fair sort/kind of government ever devised by mankind?

----------


## JohnAdams

> No, it's also our terrible current foreign policy, among MANY other things. 
> 
> But yeah, I'm sure our government suddenly went from evil to good over a couple of generations.


 You actually have that in the reverse, our government has gone from good, limited government, wherein there was a weaker central government and stronger state governments.

To a strong over-reaching totalitarian central government which runs rough shod over the rights of the states, and the human rights of the citizen.

Thanks for pointing that out however.  :Wink:

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Uh perhaps because a Republic, wherein the people themselves govern themselves is the most free, just, and fair sort/kind of government ever devised by mankind?


And that has exactly what to do with liking or not liking the way it operates?

----------


## kilgram

And now North Korea openly menaces of a nuclear attack to USA, it is really worrysome.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> And now North Korea openly menaces of a nuclear attack to USA, it is really worrysome.


I think China needs to start policing their own hemisphere. I think they need to make clear that if NK does anything stupid to start a war with the U.S. then China will annex them, plain and simple.  That should put a lid on Kim Jon Stepstool's saber rattling.

----------



----------

