# Politics and News > UK, Canada, Oz, NZ >  In defense of Brveheart?

## Moonie

.
Outside of the Hollyweird theatre: Wallace was a perve (in the conventional sense if not the sexual one).

Beyond that he was also a recognized aristocrat of the Scottish hierarchy (even though he was actually a 'lowlander').
.

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Swedgin (04-27-2021)

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## TheOneOnly2

I have never seen Braveheart. I saw the start.

I watched a video on YouTube the other day about how the Oliver Stone Doors movie was inaccurate. That was my favourite movie for a while when I was about 16. A female friend and I used to watch it over and over. I thought that the guy that made the video about it being inaccurate was nitpicking.

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## Captain Kirk!

Also, the main gripe of the movie was how the lords and kings and such could have their way with any woman even those about to be married, was hollywood bs.

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## TheOneOnly2

How about that dude that %$%$s Rob Roys wife in the Rob Roy movie. Was that accurate? I dont know a lot about Scottish history. Only what I learned from Rob Roy. Was Rob Roy really a cuck? Was one of his children really a rape baby?

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## UKSmartypants

@TheOneOnly2 Braveheart is not only possible the most historically inaccurate movie  ever made, its also a slur on my ancestor, Edward II. 


1. Wallace wasnt a peasant, as you correctly state, He was the child of a wealthy landowner.

His father was a landholder who was probably a knight, and his mother was probably a knight’s daughter. Family background affected on his political program; his aim was to restore the throne of the dethroned  King of Scotland *John Balliol*, who was a prisoner of the English King Edward I of England, aka *Edward Longshanks* and the Hammer of the Scots.

(That problematic for me  - i am a descendant of Edward I, my son also is, but via his mothers line, hes a descendant of John Balliol....awkward.....   :Cool20:    )


2. Kilts were not used for another 500 years. There were no kilts in the 13th century.


3. Facepaint. Scots (Ie Picts) stopped using face paint 1000 years previously.  There is no evidence to suggest that the Scottish Highlanders of the time were sporting mullets with braids, dreads, or little fur attachments.  You might as well as depicted them in Roman chariots with 8 track players and boom boxes, it wouldn't have made it any more inaccurate.


4. *Princess* *Isabella* was 10 years old and lived in France at the time of Wallace’s death. He never met her.


5. Battle tactics - Battle of Stirling Bridge in the movie has no bridge in sight only a lousy tactic. In reality it was stunning victory of tactical deception and one bridge replaced the tactics in the open field and the use of tactical wits. Wallace’s army was portrayed as a bunch of peasants, although in reality, it was well organised and disciplined army. That is made probably because an ambush of experience army is not so cinematic as open field victory of an underdog peasants.


6. William Wallace never earned the moniker "Braveheart." It was the name given to Robert the Bruce a Scottish hero who is portrayed as a traitor in the film.


7.  Nothing about the film's timing and its sequence of events makes any historical sense.  The film opens in 1276, at which point in reality King Alexander III of Scotland was still alive and the English weren't yet making much of a fuss over Scotland. The rebellionbegan in 1296.  Additionally, in reality King Edward I did not die at the same time as William Wallace as the film suggests, he died several years later. King Edward II did not marry Isabella until after Wallace's death, at which time she was 13/


8. The movie  completely slanders the man that actually bore the film's title name. Robert the Bruce  was a conflicted nobleman, but he highly favored the Scottish side and did not fight against Wallace at Falkirk, nor did he or his father have anything to do with the betrayal of Wallace and his subsequent execution.  Bruce is considered a national hero in Scotland, not a villain as the movie makes him out to be.


9.In Braveheart, William Wallace is hanged by the English, then disembowelled while still alive. It is then that he calls out his final word: "FREEDOM!" This isn't accurate but, oddly, it's inaccurate because it actually downplays his execution. Yes, he was hanged and disembowelled, but he was also drawn and quartered, as well as castrated. He would not have been given the opportunity to ask for a merciful quick death, since the gruesome execution was kind of the whole point.

His last words are unknown. Probably because there isn't much time to speak when you're being killed four different ways at once.


10. King Edward II (my ancestor) was not a gay stereotype.  Nor is it likely Edward was disgusted by his wife. The film portrays him as unable to conceive, but in reality he fathered four children with her.


11. Braveheart is full of delightfully unnecessary lies, ones that don't actually affect the plot and are thus that much more puzzling. One such lie is the supposedly banned use of bagpipes pointed out by scary Uncle Argyle  after the funeral of William's brother and father.  Bagpipes have been banned in Scotland's history, but they were never banned in the thirteenth century.


12.William's father, Sir Malcom Wallace, did not die when William was a young boy, orphaning him and leaving him with a hatred of violence and the English. Malcolm Wallace died in 1291 after being involved in several skirmishes with the English over the years and his son William was a full-fledged adult rebel at the time of his death.


13.Wallace and his men never sacked York, they looted and destroyed the city of Carlisle.


14. The opening monologue in Braveheart sets the scene by describing a coldhearted and imperialist king, "Edward the Longshanks," who is called a "pagan." The nickname is real, so given because Edward was quite tall in person. But he definitely wasn't a pagan.

He was a Christian who was dedicated to the Anglo-Saxon king and Saint Edward the Confessor. He had even been on several Crusades. It's a weird and random falsehood presented by the movie that doesn't go anywhere or add anything to the film. Its just part of the general anti english racism of the film, the underlying wokeness if  it.


15.William Wallace's murdered wife is believed to have actually been named Marion not Murron


16. The scene depicting the Battle of Falkirk shows Irish soldiers, originally fighting for the English, switching sides to fight with the Scottish rebels, even greeting them with handshakes on their walk over. This did not happen in any way, shape, or form.  Ever.  There were no Irish at this battle, but it does make the English look like idiots in the movie, but then its all part of the casual anti english racism of the movie.


17. The lover of Edward II was not thrown out of a window by Edward I (ignore the fact he wasnt gay , see 10 above).  It's possible this person was meant to be Piers Gaveston, a handsome friend to the Prince who was given many titles and lands to the chagrin of England's nobles.  Either way, Gaveston did not die falling from a window. No close friend of Edward II is ever said to have died in this manner.


18. In Braveheart, young William Wallace is taken in by his badass Uncle Argyle, who teaches him Latin and shows him how to be a cultured Scot. This just didn't happen. There was no such person.


19. In the film, the trouble in William Wallace's life begins when the men of his Scottish village are called to a meeting with the English that ends up being a trap. All the Scots at the meeting are brutally murdered and young Wallace is traumatized by the image of their corpses. This atrocity provokes Wallace's father and the other patriarchs in his village to fight back, resulting in his father's death. There is no historical evidence that any of this ever happened.


20.  The English did not have matching uniforms.  The immaculate, matching uniforms of the English in the film is not a failure only on Braveheart's part. To be fair, almost every movie about medieval Europe gets this wrong. The reality would be visually confusing to most movie watchers. In the thirteenth century, soldiers were not wearing matching standards over their chain mail, they were wearing whatever tunics they could find or afford.    Some may have worn more particular, family standards, but they did not wear any unified "English Army" colors.


I could write another post the same length of how wrong the weapons  and tactics of both sides are...... the entire movie is about as historically accurate as "The Man in the High Castle" or "The Crown".......

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Swedgin (04-27-2021),TheOneOnly2 (04-26-2021),WVYankee (04-26-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

> Also, the main gripe of the movie was how the lords and kings and such could have their way with any woman even those about to be married, was hollywood bs.



It comes from a fallacious myth that circulated pre WW2 that medieval Lords of the Manor had '_Jus prima Noctis_' , the 'right of first night', ie is you were a serf or bond peasant of the manor , the Lord  was allowed to screw your new wife on your wedding night, ie he got first dibs. No such right existed, barring ordinary rape by  a bully.

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## TheOneOnly2

> @TheOneOnly2 Braveheart is not only possible the most historically inaccurate movie  ever made, its also a slur on my ancestor, Edward II. 
> 
> 
> 1. Wallace wasnt a peasant, as you correctly state, He was the child of a wealthy landowner.
> 
> His father was a landholder who was probably a knight, and his mother was probably a knight’s daughter. Family background affected on his political program; his aim was to restore the throne of the dethroned  King of Scotland *John Balliol*, who was a prisoner of the English King Edward I of England, aka *Edward Longshanks* and the Hammer of the Scots.
> 
> (That problematic for me  - i am a descendant of Edward I, my son also is, but via his mothers line, hes a descendant of John Balliol....awkward.....     )
> 
> ...


Well. They say that it wasn't even Schindler's List. Movies are propaganda and 'based on a true story' doesnt mean everything in movie is true.

Mel Gibson obviously hates pommies. The point of Braveheart is that the English are evil freedom hating monarchists. FREEDOM! That is the thrust from what I can tell. Did you like The Patriot? Mel Gibson says America = FREEDOM, England = evil freedom hating people. Next time you watch Braveheart try to think of William Wallace as being an American and it will probably make a lot more sense.

Edit - I'm a Norman. How do you feel think I feel when I watch Robin Hood movies? Steal from the rich? More like steal from a Norman. Pay your taxes Saxon peasants!

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## 12icer

There is available history of all of the things stated and more on the internet archive.org site under the book section. 
There are encyclopedia and world atlas from years before the censorship started with the names and a history of just about every nobleman ever to live. 
I grew up with these types of books as my reading library. 
As I watch ANY movie the trash show people put out all I see is propaganda and conjecture designed to an end.
History taught today is edited conjecture that has no basis in fact.

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UKSmartypants (04-26-2021),WVYankee (04-26-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

> Well. They say that it wasn't even Schindler's List. Movies are propaganda and 'based on a true story' doesnt mean everything in movie is true.
> 
> Mel Gibson obviously hates pommies. The point of Braveheart is that the English are evil freedom hating monarchists. FREEDOM! That is the thrust from what I can tell. Did you like The Patriot? Mel Gibson says America = FREEDOM, England = evil freedom hating people. Next time you watch Braveheart try to think of William Wallace as being an American and it will probably make a lot more sense.
> 
> Edit - I'm a Norman. How do you feel think I feel when I watch Robin Hood movies? Steal from the rich? More like steal from a Norman. Pay your taxes Saxon peasants!


well

Im descended ultimately from Dagobert 1, 600 AD, the founder of the Merovingians, via the Franks and the Normans.  Im a Plantagenet, and a Merovingian.  And the movie is nothing but a load of offensive racist anti english woke made up bollox.


And most Robin Hood movies are inaccurate bollox as well.

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12icer (04-26-2021),TheOneOnly2 (04-26-2021)

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## Big Wheeler

History according to Hollywood?

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12icer (04-26-2021),UKSmartypants (04-26-2021)

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## WVYankee

So, what do you expect Hollycrud to pump out, other than the usual sewerage?

All it takes are some woke "historians" to make it all possible for anyone willing to peck in a script for hired fools to bleat out. And yeah, a lot of cameras--kind of what's been going on with "Bona fide," so called "journalists" around the globe and their special brand of horse hockey.

Well done, UKSmartypants.

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12icer (04-26-2021)

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## UKSmartypants

> So, what do you expect Hollycrud to pump out, other than the usual sewerage?
> 
> All it takes are some woke "historians" to make it all possible for anyone willing to peck in a script for hired fools to bleat out. And yeah, a lot of cameras--kind of what's been going on with "Bona fide," so called "journalists" around the globe and their special brand of horse hockey.
> 
> Well done, UKSmartypants.



well theres degrees.  Theres artistic licence.  Then theres bending the truth to make the plot work. 

Then theres patent mistruths, the movie U571 was based on a single whopper, that the US navy captured an Enigma Machine from the sub U-571 (in fact the movie is about the U559) when the truth was the US Navy wasn't with 1000 miles of U 599 when the British destroyer HMS Petard  hunted her down, and boarded her, and recovered a 5 wheel naval enigma, and a set of wheel settings for the next 3 months , plus a code book giving the code names of all the german subs.  Even the Germans were not to happy about U571, because it showed them machine-gunning sailors in the water, which they did not do.

But Braveheart just puts every other movie in the shade, almost every minute of it contains some sort of lie, error or misconception. And its one of vilest, racist, anti english, woke PC bits of rubbish ever produced in Hollywood.

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## Swedgin

AND...."Longshanks" was pretty much loved by everyone, EXCEPT the Scots and the French.

I think, the English loved him.

Not his son, though.

They killed his son by ramming a hot poker up his ass.

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## Swedgin

Good movie, though!

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## UKSmartypants

> AND...."Longshanks" was pretty much loved by everyone, EXCEPT the Scots and the French.
> 
> I think, the English loved him.
> 
> Not his son, though.
> 
> They killed his son by ramming a hot poker up his ass.


ah because he was aristocracy. It kills you by internal bleeding ,and doesn't leave any external marks or spoil your good looks. The peasantry just got hacked to death. A poker up your arse was a class privilege.

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Swedgin (04-27-2021)

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## Swedgin

LOL!

I thought it was because he liked the boys.

But, to be honest...I think I would rather be hacked to death, rather than die a slow, miserable death with a burnt asshole.

Geeze, didn't they have poison?

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## Big Wheeler

If I understand correctly Edward 11 had his arsehole dilated by the insertion of a funnel so that the poker could be inserted.The intention being that no visible sign of the unpleasantness be left on his body.Apart from,maybe,the pained expression on his face.They didn't mess about in those days if someone took a dislike to you especially,in this case,a wife and her lover.

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## WVYankee

"And it(')s one of vilest, racist, woke PC bits of rubbish ever produced in Hollywood."

Careful, there, UK. Climbing that dung heap (hollycrud) is a FAR more arduous task than climbing Mount Everest with sandals and shorts, and one functioning lung--even in summer. Add in their pals in the "media" (not to mention social media) and the deep state, and it becomes as impossible as walking to Mars.

Oh, I seem to have omitted part of your quote. See how this works with these worms? Once the door is cracked, it's a toehold, right before they crash into your living room and eat your offspring alive with gusto. As we're experiencing first hand right now in America...

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Big Wheeler (04-28-2021)

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