# Stuff and Things > Cooking >  MSG, Yes or No?

## Retiredat50

I use MSG in some of the dishes I cook, always use it for meats I plan on using in a stir fry and lots of times will add it to marinades or rubs for steak or whatever I happen to be grilling.  I think it adds that little something special.

Does anyone else use MSG in there cooking?

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2cent (10-12-2019),Brat (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),potlatch (10-12-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

The Mrs is allergic. I like it. Want pure MSG? Accent seasoning.

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Brat (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019),Rickity Plumber (10-12-2019)

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## potlatch

I don't 'use' MSG as it upsets my stomach, but when eating out I'm gonna eat what I like and suffer the consequences, lol.

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Brat (10-12-2019),Kodiak (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019),Rickity Plumber (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> The Mrs is allergic. I like it. Want pure MSG? Accent seasoning.


Yes, when I was in California I could buy pure MSG and it was super cheap, here in Florida I have to buy Accent and it is way expensive for MSG, but it is what it is.

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Brat (10-12-2019),Kris P Bacon (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019)

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## notofimport36

MSG is not good if it can be avoided.

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OneDumbBlonde (10-12-2019),ruthless terrier (10-13-2019)

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## Dan40

> I use MSG in some of the dishes I cook, always use it for meats I plan on using in a stir fry and lots of times will add it to marinades or rubs for steak or whatever I happen to be grilling.  I think it adds that little something special.
> 
> Does anyone else use MSG in there cooking?


It exceeds my syllabic limit.

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## Retiredat50

> It exceeds my syllabic limit.


I am sorry to hear that  :Frown:

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## Retiredat50

> MSG is not good if it can be avoided.


Why?

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## Brat

My dad used to work at the Accent plant, and we used it on most everything.

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Kris P Bacon (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## RMNIXON

I am all for diet choices, but some people getting obsessed with avoiding MSG reeks of classic paranoia.

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Brat (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019)

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## Rutabaga

eating out, i always order extra msg with a side of gluten...

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Brat (10-12-2019),Kodiak (10-12-2019),Kris P Bacon (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),NuYawka (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> I am all for diet choices, but some people getting obsessed with avoiding MSG reeks of classic paranoia.


It was all just a hoax.  

There has been no study that has ever found any negative health benefits associated with MSG.  Yes, some people are sensitive to it, just like some people are sensitive to peanuts.  The only study that found a negative was one in which they injected juvenile mice with MSG, huge amounts, plus injecting into the blood is not the same are eating.  But, to eat the equivalent amount as what was injected, a human would have to consume about 1/4 to a 1/2 pound a day.


The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok | Colgate Magazine


*"It started out as a* *bet. In 1968, Steel was a young orthopedic surgeon at Shriner’s* *Hospital* * and** a professor at Temple University in Philadelphia. Another doctor,  Bill Hanson, used to rib Steel about his specialty, saying* *orthopedic  surgeons** were too stupid to get published in a prestigious journal* *such  as** the NEJM. In fact, he bet Steel $10 he couldn’t make it* *into  its** pages. “That was a threat, and he was willing to make a buck,” said  Steel in an interview earlier this year, before he passed away in  September at the age of 97.*

* At the time, Steel and Hanson used to go to a Chinese restaurant called  Jack Louie once a week, drinking too much beer and overeating —  invariably feeling sick afterward. Following one of those episodes,  Steel had a fit of inspiration. “I decided, well, I’ll write a little  article and send it to the New England Journal of Medicine,”  Steel said. “I’ll make it so obvious, they will know immediately [that  it’s fake].” After penning the notorious letter, he signed it Robert Ho  Man Kwok, which he thought would be an obvious play on words.
*
*“It was a breakdown of a not-nice word we used when someone was a  jerk,” Steel said. “We called them a human crock of you-know-what.”* *If  anyone** needed further proof that the letter was a spoof, he also made* *up  a** fake medical institution, the National Biomedical Research* *Foundation  of** Silver Spring, Md. “It doesn’t exist.”
*
*A few weeks later, when the letter was actually published under* *the  title** “Chinese-Restaurant Syndrome,” Steel was pleased with himself* *and  promptly** went to Hanson to pay up. Lest anyone think the phenomenon* *was  real**, Steel contacted the letters editor to tell him it was “a big* *fat  lie**,” he said. When he didn’t hear back, Steel called the* *journal’s  editor**, Franz Ingelfinger. “I told him it was a bunch of junk, it* *was  all** fake, it was all made up, and he hung up the phone on me,”* *Steel  claimed**. The brush-off was even more surprising, considering he knew  Ingelfinger from his boyhood in Atlantic City (see “A Charmed Life”)."*

So, the myth about MSG started as fake news.

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2cent (10-12-2019),Kris P Bacon (10-12-2019),Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),NORAD (10-13-2019),Rutabaga (10-12-2019)

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## tom

MSG makes me feel bad after oral administration. I don't eat out, so MSG is no bother, but if I did, I would never go to a Chinese restaurant.




> The mechanism behind MSG-induced headaches is not fully understood. MSG is an excitatory amino acid that binds to MNDA receptions in the brain. This activation leads to the release of nitric oxide, which then leads to the dilation or widening of blood vessels around the skull.
> 
> Symptoms
> 
> Most people with an MSG-related headache describe a tightening or even burning head sensation. People will also commonly notice muscle tenderness around their skull. In people with a history of migraines, MSG triggers a migrainein this instance, people usually report a classic throbbing or pulsating headache.



What Is an MSG-Induced Headache?

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## Dan40

> I am sorry to hear that


SALT, now that's a syllable!

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Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),NORAD (10-13-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## HawkTheSlayer

> I use MSG in some of the dishes I cook, always use it for meats I plan on using in a stir fry and lots of times will add it to marinades or rubs for steak or whatever I happen to be grilling.  I think it adds that little something special.
> 
> Does anyone else use MSG in there cooking?


MSG acts as a Neuro transmitter that enhances synapses.

Good food does not need MSG.
Morton(previously McCormick) Season▪all was one of the first companies to remove MSG from its product. Almost all Creole Seasonings contained MSG. I refused to use any brand of Creole seasoning in favor of Season all because of that very reason, until they removed MSG. I wrote many letters and actually visited Tony Chacheres' plant in Opelousas voicing my opinions on the addition of MSG to their product. They eventually did.

I still use season all, on occasion. I like the pronounced flavor of celery seed in their mix. I just add a little red pepper to spice it up.

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Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),notofimport36 (10-12-2019),tom (10-12-2019)

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## valley ranch

I don't intentionally use it ~ but it is in so many things ~ I've heard some not good things about MSG ~ if I could avoid it ~ I would ```

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## valley ranch

Gluten is a friend ~ we bake bread together ```

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potlatch (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> MSG acts as a Neuro transmitter that enhances synapses.
> 
> Good food does not need MSG.
> Morton(previously McCormick) Season▪all was one of the first companies to remove MSG from its product. Almost all Creole Seasonings contained MSG. I refused to use any brand of Creole seasoning in favor of Season all because of that very reason, until they removed MSG. I wrote many letters and actually visited Tony Chacheres' plant in Opelousas voicing my opinions on the addition of MSG to their product. They eventually did.
> 
> I still use season all. I like the pronounced flavor of celery seed in their mix. I just add a little red pepper to spice it up.


Sure, good food does not need MSG, it also does not need Creole seasoning or Season-all or anything else, but they enhance the flavor.  

I am not trying to convince anyone to use MSG, I was just curious.  It has a bad reputation all based on a hoax that happened in 1968.  It is derived, I believe, from certain sea plants and Asians have used it for a long, long time with no adverse effects.

Every reputable food/nutrition/medical study has found MSG to pose no health risk at all.

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Lone Gunman (10-12-2019),NORAD (10-13-2019)

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## HawkTheSlayer

> Sure, good food does not need MSG, it also does not need Creole seasoning or Season-all or anything else, but they enhance the flavor.  
> 
> I am not trying to convince anyone to use MSG, I was just curious.  It has a bad reputation all based on a hoax that happened in 1968.  It is derived, I believe, from certain sea plants and Asians have used it for a long, long time with no adverse effects.
> 
> Every reputable food/nutrition/medical study has found MSG to pose no health risk at all.


MSG is used in nearly every processed food we consume. I eat lots of it whether I like it or not. I choose not to add it to my own foods.

Here's at least one study that declares it's toxicity. 
It's not just a salt, but a salt of glutamate. Many of which are naturally occurring.




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*Glutamate as a Neurotransmitter - An overview*

by Niels Chr. Danbolt
*For more references and more information, see: Danbolt, 2001:
Prog. Neurobiol. 65, 1-105.

Glutamate*
Outside the community of biomedical scientists, glutamate is probably best known as "monosodium glutamate" or "MSG" which is used as a flavor or taste enhancer in food. It is usually available together with other food additives and spices in most large food stores. Some people may also have heard the term "Chinese restaurant syndrome" which is a sudden fall in blood pressure with subsequent fainting after ingestion of very spicy food. Excessive use of MSG has been suggested to be the cause, but this is controversial. The use of glutamate as a food additive, however, is not the reason for the enormous scientific interest in glutamate.
*Glutamate is the major excitatory transmitter in the brain*
The main motivation for the ongoing World Wide research on glutamate is due to the role of glutamate in the signal transduction in the nervous systems of apparently all complex living organisms, including man. Glutamate is considered to be the major mediator of excitatory signals in the mammalian central nervous system and is involved in most aspects of normal brain function including cognition, memory and learning.
*Glutamate is toxic, not in spite of its importance, but because of it*
Glutamate does not only mediate a lot of information, but also information which regulates brain development and information which determines cellular survival, differentiation and elimination as well as formation and elimination of nerve contacts (synapses). From this it follows that glutamate has to be present in the right concentrations in the right places for the right time. Both too much and too little glutamate is harmful. This implies that glutamate is both essential and highly toxic at the same time.
*It took a long time to realize that glutamate is a neurotransmitter*
It may sound astonishing, but it took the scientific community a long time to realize that glutamate is a neurotransmitter although it was noted already 70 years ago that glutamate is abundant in the brain and that it plays a central role in brain metabolism. Ironically, the reason for the delay seems to have been its overwhelming importance. Brain tissue contains as much as 5 - 15 mmol glutamate pr kg, depending on the region, more than of any other amino acid. Glutamate is one of the ordinary 20 amino acids which are used to make proteins and takes parts in typical metabolic functions like energy production and ammonia detoxification in addition to protein synthesis. It was hard to believe that a compound with so many functions and which is present virtually everywhere in high concentrations could play an additional role as transmitter.
*How glutamate works as a transmitter*
Like other signaling substances (neurotransmitters and hormones) the signaling effect of glutamate is not dependent on the chemical nature of glutamate, but on how cells are programmed to respond when exposed to glutamate. Only cells with glutamate receptor proteins (“glutamate receivers”) on their surfaces are sensitive to glutamate. Glutamate exerts its signaling function by binding to and thereby activating these receptor proteins. Several subtypes of glutamate receptors have been identified: NMDA, AMPA/kainate and metabotropic receptors (mGluR).

Although the individual receptor subtypes show specific (restricted) localizations, glutamate receptors of one type or another are found virtually everywhere. Most of the nerve cells, and even glial cells, have glutamate receptors.
*Glutamate must be kept inside the cells (intracellularly)*
At first glance this looks like an impossible system. A closer look, however, reveals that glutamate is not present everywhere. It is almost exclusively located inside the cells. The intracellular location of some 99.99 % of brain glutamate is the reason why this system can work. This is essential because glutamate receptors can only be activated by glutamate binding to them from the outside. Hence, glutamate is relatively inactive as long as it is intracellular. 

The volume of brain cells and of the meshwork formed by their intermingled extensions, constitute about 80 % of brain tissue volume. This network is submerged in a fluid, the extracellular fluid which represents the remaining 20 % of brain tissue volume. The normal (resting) concentration of glutamate in this fluid is low, in the order of a few micromolar. In contrast, the glutamate concentration inside the cells is several thousand times higher, at around 1 - 10 millimolar. The highest glutamate concentrations are found in nerve terminals and the concentration inside synaptic vesicles may be as high as 100 millimolar.
*The glutamate transporters remove glutamate from the extracellular fluid*
It follows from the description above that the mechanisms which can maintain low extracellular concentrations of glutamate are essential for brain function. The only (significant) mechanism for removal of glutamate from the extracellular fluid is cellular uptake of glutamate; the so called “glutamate uptake”. This uptake is mediated by a family of special transporter proteins which act as pumps. These proteins bind glutamate, one molecule at the time, and transfer them into the cells. In agreement with the abundance of glutamate and the ubiquity of glutamate receptors, brain tissue displays a very high glutamate uptake activity. This was noted already in 1949, although its true importance was not recognized until after the excitatory action of glutamate was discovered in the 1950s and 1960s.

Glutamate is taken up into both glial cells and nerve terminals. The former is believed to be the more important from a quantitative point of view. Glutamate taken up by astroglial cells is converted to glutamine. Glutamine is inactive in the sense that it cannot activate glutamate receptors, and is released from the glial cells into to extracellular fluid. Nerve terminals take up glutamine and convert glutamine back to glutamate. This process is referred to as the glutamate-glutamine, and is important because it allows glutamate to be inactivated by glial cells and transported back to neurons in an inactive (non-toxic) form. 




=========================

Everything in moderation.

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Retiredat50 (10-12-2019),valley ranch (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> MSG is used in nearly every processed food we consume. I eat lots of it whether I like it or not. I choose not to add it to my own foods.
> 
> Here's at least one study that declares it's toxicity. 
> It's not just a salt, but a salt of glutamate. Many of which are naturally occurring.


"*Glutamate is toxic, not in spite of its importance, but because of it*
Glutamate does not only mediate a lot of information, but also  information which regulates brain development and information which  determines cellular survival, differentiation and elimination as well as  formation and elimination of nerve contacts (synapses). From this it  follows that glutamate has to be present in the right concentrations in  the right places for the right time. Both too much and too little  glutamate is harmful. This implies that glutamate is both essential and  highly toxic at the same time."

Your paper says nothing about the effects of eating MSG.  When you eat something it enters your blood. The Blood/Brain barrier is there to protect the brain from harm.  If you have a major brain injury, or a major neurological disorder, that compromises the blood/brain barrier then maybe eating MSG could cause a problem.

Once again, no reputable study, and there have been a few, show any danger in eating MSG.

It is also is naturally in a lot of foods.

*“The glutamate in MSG is* *chemically indistinguishable**  from glutamate present in food proteins. Our bodies ultimately  metabolize both sources of glutamate in the same way. An average adult  consumes approximately 13 grams of glutamate each day from the protein in food, while intake of added MSG is estimated at around 0.55 grams per day.”

*This scare was all started by a lie in 1968 and since has been disproven over and over. If you don't want to eat it, fine, but it is not the terrible thing most people think it is.
(Well, you will eat it since it is in a lot of foods, both as an additive and naturally).

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## HawkTheSlayer

You asked for an opinion with two options. 
I say no.

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## notofimport36

> Why?


It is an excitotoxin; the good taste comes from an overstimulation of the Neurons receptors.

Originally was used so that meat could be served that was gone bad so that people would eat it.  

Try to avoid it, many times it shows up on labels under different names, which I can't think of ATM.

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## Retiredat50

> It is an excitotoxin; the good taste comes from an overstimulation of the Neurons receptors.
> 
> Originally was used so that meat could be served that was gone bad so that people would eat it.  
> 
> Try to avoid it, many times it shows up on labels under different names, which I can't think of ATM.


MSG is just a pairing of glutamate and salt.  If you have ever added parmesan cheese to your pasta and salt, the same thing.  Glutamate is an amino acid, found in may proteins and adding salt creates the same excitotoxin, which is not a toxin at all.

Once again, many studies have been done and none have ever found MSG to be a health risk.  Asians Japanese/Chinese have been eating it in large quantities for over 100 years and they live long healthy lives, in fact, their mental acuity in old age is extremely good.

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Brat (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> You asked for an opinion with two options. 
> I say no.


Fair enough.

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Brat (10-12-2019)

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## Kris P Bacon

It's great, love shooting it up... :Smile:    (JK)

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Brat (10-12-2019),NORAD (10-13-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## HawkTheSlayer

> It's great, love shooting it up...   (JK)


Did you get a cotton mouth and crave beef jerky and Dr. Pepper?

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Brat (10-12-2019),Kris P Bacon (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## tom

common commercial foods containing MSG

1. Doritos
2. KFC fried chicken. also in the gravy, chicken pot pies, potato wedges, and green beans.
3. Chick-Fil-A chicken sandwich
4. Flavored Pringles
5. Campbells chicken noodle soup. It's in nearly all Campbell's soups.

https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/f...ow-contain-msg

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Brat (10-12-2019)

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## 2cent

> I use MSG in some of the dishes I cook, always use it for meats I plan on using in a stir fry and lots of times will add it to marinades or rubs for steak or whatever I happen to be grilling.  I think it adds that little something special.
> 
> Does anyone else use MSG in there cooking?


Brought up this same discussion on a bb in a Galaxy far, far away.  "So what's so wrong w/MSG?"

Answer:  "It's a *preservative!!!*"

Me:  "Yeah.  So is salt.  What about it?"

Crickets...

MSG brings out the flavor in meats, and I was bummed when I reached in the spice cab a week or so ago, only to remember I was out.  (Thanks for the reminder.)  
Generally speaking, I sprinkle some on the 'bottom side' of chicken thighs or breasts, when making a recipe where you 'cup' the chicken over stuffing, and bake it.  Pretty yummy.

And, thanks again, for that 1968 "study."  I thought as much.

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Brat (10-12-2019),NORAD (10-13-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> Brought up this same discussion on a bb in a Galaxy far, far away.  "So what's so wrong w/MSG?"
> 
> Answer:  "It's a *preservative!!!*"
> 
> Me:  "Yeah.  So is salt.  What about it?"
> 
> Crickets...
> 
> MSG brings out the flavor in meats, and I was bummed when I reached in the spice cab a week or so ago, only to remember I was out.  (Thanks for the reminder.)  
> ...


Good point, it is very much like salt.  You need it to live, but consuming too much can be bad for you.  I had a friend that was so anti-MSG he read every package to see if it was listed, called it poison.  But, he had no problem wolfing down tons of sugary filled sweets.

To anyone reading this... If you are eating refined sugar but avoiding MSG, you are doing it all wrong  :Wink:

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2cent (10-12-2019),Brat (10-12-2019)

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## notofimport36

> MSG is just a pairing of glutamate and salt.  If you have ever added parmesan cheese to your pasta and salt, the same thing.  Glutamate is an amino acid, found in may proteins and adding salt creates the same excitotoxin, which is not a toxin at all.
> 
> Once again, many studies have been done and none have ever found MSG to be a health risk.  Asians Japanese/Chinese have been eating it in large quantities for over 100 years and they live long healthy lives, in fact, their mental acuity in old age is extremely good.


I'm not particularly harsh on MSG regardless, I personally tend to avoid it, but it's more in the attempt to minimize adding arbitrary flavour chemicals to food.  There are cumulative interactions that don't get studied, but would at worst be more low level chronic issues and not so much toxic effects.  

The problem with excitotoxins is that they create a type of dependency; when you start using msg you get the surge of neural activity, so, when you're not using it it's not giving the same 'kick'.  

Now, when you're talking about artificial sweeteners that's a different issue, most, and probably all should be reconsidered as to whether they are safe products.

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Brat (10-12-2019),Retiredat50 (10-12-2019),tom (10-12-2019)

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## Brat

I've always thought the primary action of MSG was to open the taste buds on the tongue to make savory flavors more savory.

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## tom

According to this blog, which is sympathetic to Dr. Howard H. Steel, the letter about MSG was real and not written by Steel. He falsely claimed to have written it to win a bet.




> It turned out, however, that there really was a Chinese doctor who had written and sent the letter and that Steel had claimed to have written it as a prank, a prank he continued to the time of his death.


The Complete and Total Loser: Dr. Steel, MSG, me, and This American Life

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## Retiredat50

> According to this blog, which is sympathetic to Dr. Howard H. Steel, the letter about MSG was real and not written by Steel. He falsely claimed to have written it to win a bet.
> 
> 
> 
> The Complete and Total Loser: Dr. Steel, MSG, me, and This American Life


Ok, who was that Chinese doctor?  The name on the letter is the made-up name that Steel said, and the organization stated in the letter is the made-up organization that Steel stated.  Why would a Chinese doctor send a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine and how did Steel intercept it and put his fake name on it?

But, skip that, show one actual study that shows MSG is bad for you.  How do you explain 100 years of Asians eating MSG in most of their foods with no bad side effects?  In fact... They generally live longer than Westerners and have a lot fewer mental disorders in old age.

Oh, and I won't go into the source you are providing, lol.  Did you even bother to go to the domain level to see that the name "Complete and Total Loser" applies to the old guy writing these BS blog entries?

Hey, you don't want to eat MSG, great, don't.  (actually, you eat it every day)

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## tom

> Ok, who was that Chinese doctor?  The name on the letter is the made-up name that Steel said, and the organization stated in the letter is the made-up organization that Steel stated.  Why would a Chinese doctor send a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine and how did Steel intercept it and put his fake name on it?
> 
> But, skip that, show one actual study that shows MSG is bad for you.  How do you explain 100 years of Asians eating MSG in most of their foods with no bad side effects?  In fact... They generally live longer than Westerners and have a lot fewer mental disorders in old age.
> 
> Oh, and I won't go into the source you are providing, lol.  Did you even bother to go to the domain level to see that the name "Complete and Total Loser" applies to the old guy writing these BS blog entries?
> 
> Hey, you don't want to eat MSG, great, don't.  (actually, you eat it every day)





> Ok, who was that Chinese doctor?



Dr. Robert Ho Man Kwok.





> The name on the letter is the made-up name that Steel said, and the organization stated in the letter is the made-up organization that Steel stated.


No. Steel lied to win a bet.




> Why would a Chinese doctor send a letter to the New England Journal of Medicine


Dr. Kwok was a recent Chinese immigrant.





> how did Steel intercept it and put his fake name on it?


Steel found the letter in the NEJM and claimed to have written it. No interception required.





> show one actual study that shows MSG is bad for you.


No study has been made on me. From a quick search you can find hundreds of reports of those who have had bad reactions to MSG. Global bad reactions to MSG should number over a million a year, I would guess. 





> How do you explain 100 years of Asians eating MSG in most of their foods with no bad side effects?


Unless his observations were restricted solely to Americans, Dr. Kwok's letter is evidence that Asians also have bad reactions to MSG. I have not read Kwok's letter.





> They generally live longer than Westerners and have a lot fewer mental disorders in old age.


MSG contributes to global obesity. It is a killer. Watch some videos on those who die alone in Japan. It is not a psychologically healthy culture. The addictive indulgence in MSG probably plays a part.





> Oh, and I won't go into the source you are providing, lol.


You should have. It is well written and informative. The author was a patient of Dr. Steel. There is biographical information about Steel and a picture of him smiling mischievously. Another good link:

A Racist Little Hat: The MSG Debate and American Culture  Columbia Undergraduate Research Journal

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## Retiredat50

> Dr. Robert Ho Man Kwok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. Steel lied to win a bet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The truth is that no matter who wrote the letter, it was a joke to publish it. So, a person goes to a Chinese restaurant, eats and then feels sick.  How is it possible to narrow that down to MSG?  you can't.  In 1968 when the letter was written, MSG was in almost everything.  Why did people not have the same reaction when eating a bowl of Campbell's soup?  Why did no one ever get sick like this before 1968? 

Also, MSG is bought by the pound in Asian countries, and just about every country in the world uses it as an additive and seasoning.  And, look at the list of problems that were supposedly caused by MSG, just about everything you can image, the whole world population should be sick.

No, all the serious studies that have been done such as double-blind studies show that even people that are reactive to MSG do not produce repeatable results.


The article you posted is interesting, but it does not prove anything, it basically associates MSG having a bad reputation for early racism toward Chinese people. I am not sure I believe that, but it does make a good point when it states, 


*"It’s clear that racial biases sparked the original medical concerns over MSG. These prejudices encouraged anti-MSG sentiment, and many doctors and scientists reached conclusions that crumble in the face of scrutiny. Chinese Restaurant Syndrome is ridiculous in retrospect; it’s absurd to think* *that that MSG** would cause headaches only in the hands of Chinese cooks."*



Anyway, I am not going to convince you that MSG is safe and you will not convince me that it is any worse for a person than salt.  And that's ok.  We both will continue to eat it as it is still in just about everything you buy.

It's all good though  :Smile:

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2cent (10-13-2019),Brat (10-13-2019)

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## tom

> In 1968 when the letter was written, MSG was in almost everything.  Why did people not have the same reaction when eating a bowl of Campbell's soup?  Why did no one ever get sick like this before 1968?


I do not know the history of sickness from MSG, but possibly is was a rare occurrence before Chinese food became a fad. The reason MSG sickness is associated with Chinese restaurants may be because they use excessive amounts of it. But it isn't the immediate sickness that I am concerned most about. My concern is the mistraining of the sense of taste that leads to a high consumption of junk food.

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Retiredat50 (10-13-2019)

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## 2cent

I've never heard that it's MSG making people obese.  My guess is people don't exercise pushing themselves away from the table often enough.

I use MSG sparingly, as I do salt.  I RARELY eat junk food.  Not because I'm hyper about it being bad for you.  It's simply because it rarely appeals to me, and the really bad part is, it gets stuck in your teeth.  That's something that just drives me batty.

However, every once in a great while, there's nothing like a Lay's Original, or a handful of Cheese Puffs to hit the spot!

Like they say, everything in moderation.  Except beer.   :Cheers:

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Brat (10-13-2019),Retiredat50 (10-13-2019),tom (10-13-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> I do not know the history of sickness from MSG, but possibly is was a rare occurrence before Chinese food became a fad. The reason MSG sickness is associated with Chinese restaurants may be because they use excessive amounts of it. But it isn't the immediate sickness that I am concerned most about. My concern is the mistraining of the sense of taste that leads to a high consumption of junk food.


I worry more about sugar being added to everything, in huge amounts.  Ask someone from another country like Germany or New Zealand what they think of American bread.  Their response will be that it is so much sweeter than the bread they have in their country.  

I can not even choke down the stuff they sell in the stores as fruit juices, like orange juice or cranberry juice, it is all so sickeningly sweet.

I said in a post before that I have a friend that reads labels trying to avoid MSG, but he has no problem eating a bowl of sugary cereal in the morning, then grabbing a "coffee" from Starbucks that is more sugar than coffee, he eats yogurt with his lunch and thinks he is doing something healthy, yet the yogurt he eats has almost as much sugar as ice cream...

People pick their poison I guess.  So far there is no proof that MSG causes any health/medical problems, but it is well known that refined sugar and corn syrup can have a negative impact on health.

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Brat (10-13-2019),tom (10-13-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> I've never heard that it's MSG making people obese.  My guess is people don't exercise pushing themselves away from the table often enough.
> 
> I use MSG sparingly, as I do salt.  I RARELY eat junk food.  Not because I'm hyper about it being bad for you.  It's simply because it rarely appeals to me, and the really bad part is, it gets stuck in your teeth.  That's something that just drives me batty.
> 
> However, every once in a great while, there's nothing like a Lay's Original, or a handful of Cheese Puffs to hit the spot!
> 
> Like they say, everything in moderation.  Except beer.


The proof is in all those fat Chinese people.

I rarely eat junk food and I luckily have almost no sweet tooth, so I eat something like ice cream or pie maybe once a year.

Yep, beer is my big vice.

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2cent (10-13-2019),Brat (10-13-2019)

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## 2cent

> The proof is in all those fat Chinese people.
> 
> I rarely eat junk food and I luckily have almost no sweet tooth, so I eat something like ice cream or pie maybe once a year.
> 
> Yep, beer is my big vice.


It's possible that we don't have much of a sweet tooth 'cuz we get it from our beer.  

But yeah, all those FAT Chinese people!  They better start laying off all that sugar ...and MSG.  

FWIW, I did hear tell some time back, that it's their diet being so high in iodine that contributes to their trimness.  Don't ask me the validity of the claim, though.  But yes, iodine in the diet is good for you.

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Brat (10-13-2019),Retiredat50 (10-13-2019)

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## Retiredat50

> It's possible that we don't have much of a sweet tooth 'cuz we get it from our beer.  
> 
> But yeah, all those FAT Chinese people!  They better start laying off all that sugar ...and MSG.  
> 
> FWIW, I did hear tell some time back, that it's their diet being so high in iodine that contributes to their trimness.  Don't ask me the validity of the claim, though.  But yes, iodine in the diet is good for you.


True, drinking beer does contribute to fewer cravings for sweets.  I have always been a salt over sweets kind of guy, even as a kid I would choose a bag of potato chips over an ice cream sandwich. 

Also, beer drinkers have fewer dental problems on average.  This was told to me by an Australian friend I have the was at the time studying to be a dentist.  It could be true, or maybe he just wanted to justify drinking lots of beer  :Smile:   Either way, I have not had a dental problem since I was a young child so...

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