# Stuff and Things > HISTORY, veterans & science >  Masks Dont Work  A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy

## Knightkore

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nC2P23zEP-juJM





All of this to say that: if anything gets through (and it always does, irrespective of the mask), 
then you are going to be infected. Masks cannot possibly work. It is not surprising, therefore, 
that no bias-free study has ever found a benefit from wearing a mask or respirator in this 
application.

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East of the Beast (05-06-2020),Jim Scott (05-05-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),Quark (05-05-2020),ruthless terrier (05-05-2020)

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## ruthless terrier

all they do is keep you from spitting in someone else's face. and maybe protect you from somebody else spitting or sneezing .. maybe. also they keep you from touching your face. but they do not filter viral particles.

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Knightkore (05-05-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020)

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## jirqoadai

do they still work when robbing a Fiesta Supermarket? inquiring minds wish to know

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Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),Old Tex (05-05-2020)

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## Quark

Hell I knew that. All a mask is is an adult "teddy bear".

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East of the Beast (05-06-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020)

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## Old Tex

If you think about it...

You breath out warm moist air into the mask. What do environments virus & bacteria grow in? Now if you change that mask often it might help but nobody said to do that did they? 

I've worn a mask twice. Both times when going into a doctors office. Oh & the last one had an employee wearing a mask with their nose uncovered. My doctor today made reference to this virus & shutting everything down......She said it was crazy. I agree.

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Knightkore (05-05-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),Quark (05-05-2020)

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## Knightkore

> Hell I knew that. All a mask is is an adult "teddy bear".



It really is just to make people "feel" better.

And if you can't make ME feel better than you should be fined or jailed.

It is that leftist entitlement baby tantrum that has infected America.  It is sickening.

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Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),Quark (05-05-2020),RMNIXON (05-05-2020)

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## RMNIXON

If you paid close attention from the start of the panic you would know that masks were meant to prevent the spread of COVID from an infected person, not protect YOU from COVID. We were warned about hoarding masks when health workers needed them most. Doctors and nurses wear masks to prevent bacterial and viral infections in patients, especially in open wounds and operations.


In short all this Mask mania has been a false comfort for the most part. As I understand it Covid can infect through the eyes as well as mouth and nose.

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East of the Beast (05-06-2020),Jim Scott (05-05-2020),Knightkore (05-05-2020),Kris P Bacon (05-05-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),nonsqtr (05-05-2020),Quark (05-05-2020)

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## Jen

> It really is just to make people "feel" better.
> 
> And if you can't make ME feel better than you should be fined or jailed.
> 
> It is that leftist entitlement baby tantrum that has infected America.  It is sickening.


I am so sick of Lefty throwing a tantrum and getting its way.  I am taking my kitty to the vet this afternoon and I won't be wearing a mask.  Neither will Kitty.   Waiting to see if there are any comments.  Betting my vet will think the same way I do.

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Knightkore (05-05-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020)

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## Knightkore



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Kris P Bacon (05-06-2020),Lone Gunman (05-05-2020),Quark (05-05-2020)

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## Knightkore

Tanzania suspends laboratory head after president questions coronavirus tests - Reuters

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Lone Gunman (05-05-2020)

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## jirqoadai

> 


so Barney Frank was visiting tanzania? how odd. dont we have goats over here?

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## Trinnity

They're worse than nothing. Cloth mask blocks droplets. Surgical mask block droplets. N95 blocks 95% of particles as small as .3 microns. N100 masks block 100% of particles as small as .3 microns. The virus is .1 micron. 

Masks collect dirt and germs. They make you touch your face more. 

I like Howie Mandel, but I don't want to live in a world filled with people like him. I'm not        participating in PC social distancing or masks. I'll was wearing gloves, and I'm done with that. I won't comply with this pc bs. I defy the democrats, for my own well being, for the sake of my rights.

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Jim Scott (05-05-2020),Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-05-2020)

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## Jim Scott

I believe a lot of Americans are beginning to doubt the efficacy of wearing a mask in public, self-isolation and 'social distancing', that are based mostly on media-generated fear.

Hence, the nation wide demands for re-opening businesses, the abandoning of wearing masks and the widespread ignoring of politician's edicts about social distancing.

*Jim *

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-05-2020)

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## Trinnity

People have had enough. It's the media telling us we're all being SO careful. That's malarkey. I was at a walmart in late April and maybe 25-20 percent of the shoppers were wearing masks and the cashiers weren't.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020)

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## Quark

> It really is just to make people "feel" better.
> 
> And if you can't make ME feel better than you should be fined or jailed.
> 
> It is that leftist entitlement baby tantrum that has infected America.  It is sickening.


Yup and a "teddy Bear" helps to make a child feel better just like the "mask" makes the "adult" child feel better.

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## Quark

> I believe a lot of Americans are beginning to doubt the efficacy of wearing a mask in public, self-isolation and 'social distancing', that are based mostly on media-generated fear.
> 
> Hence, the nation wide demands for re-opening businesses, the abandoning of wearing masks and the widespread ignoring of politician's edicts about social distancing.
> 
> *Jim *


Notice that the places that have the most draconian gun laws are also the places with the most draconian CV-19 laws for wearing a mask, self-isolation, and social distancing..

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Jim Scott (05-06-2020),Kodiak (05-05-2020)

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## nonsqtr

> Tanzania suspends laboratory head after president questions coronavirus tests - Reuters


The same faulty Chinese test kits the US got.

China has a lot to answer for.

Anywhere else, Xi would have been gone by now.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020)

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## Physics Hunter

If masks and gloves don't work, every health care worker would already have the WuFlu.

In cases other than the divine, logic, math, or truly proven science, EVERY time someone speaks in the absolute they are wrong.

Such assertions are easily falsified.

/LogicLesson

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## nonsqtr

> If masks and gloves don't work, every health care worker would already have the WuFlu.
> 
> In cases other than the divine, logic, math, or truly proven science, EVERY time someone speaks in the absolute they are wrong.
> 
> Such assertions are easily falsified.
> 
> /LogicLesson


Health care workers dispose of their masks and gloves after every use.

You and I dont. Because they didn't tell us to do that. Because they're stupid and well beyond ignorant.

Don't listen to the goddamn news media, they LIE.

The science says, a cloth mask will ONLY protect others from YOUR sneeze.

Not from your dry cough, and not from your ordinary breathing.

Unless it's an N95, the mask is worthless.

Unless you're sneezing a lot.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Kris P Bacon (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Kris P Bacon

> do they still work when robbing a Fiesta Supermarket? inquiring minds wish to know


How the hell do you know about the Fiesta store? That's the "chank store" do you know Marshall, too?

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## Physics Hunter

> Health care workers dispose of their masks and gloves after every use.
> 
> You and I dont. Because they didn't tell us to do that. Because they're stupid and well beyond ignorant.
> 
> Don't listen to the goddamn news media, they LIE.
> 
> The science says, a cloth mask will ONLY protect others from YOUR sneeze.
> 
> Not from your dry cough, and not from your ordinary breathing.
> ...



I already told you I have a few old N95 masks used in painting.  Use them, then quarantine them for N days.

"The science" you rely on comes from the leftists and the media.

My post was simple logic.  If you can't deal with that it's not my problem.

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## nonsqtr

> I already told you I have a few old N95 masks used in painting.  Use them, then quarantine them for N days.
> 
> "The science" you rely on comes from the leftists and the media.
> 
> My post was simple logic.  If you can't deal with that it's not my problem.


No, the science I rely on is PHYSICS.

If the viral particle is 100 nm big, you need a mesh SMALLER than that to trap the virus.

Double fuckin duh.

Do you contest this simple physics?

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## Physics Hunter

> No, the science I rely on is PHYSICS.
> 
> If the viral particle is 100 nm big, you need a mesh SMALLER than that to trap the virus.
> 
> Double fuckin duh.
> 
> Do you contest this simple physics?


So now "If it isn't an N95 mask it is insufficient", is insufficient.

New day, new reality from you.

And still, you cannot answer my simple logic.

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## nonsqtr

> So now "If it isn't an N95 mask it is insufficient", is insufficient.
> 
> New day, new reality from you.
> 
> And still, you cannot answer my simple logic.


I've been saying the same thing from day one.

What illogic would you like me to address?

Your argument seems to be that masks are effective, because of some nebulous quantitative relationship that you IMAGINE in your mind (not having any direct evidence).

Go look at YouTube, there are videos that show you exactly what a sneeze looks like through an N95 mask.

This discussion is very frustrating for me. Having personally worked in a P4 facility, I find myself immersed in a sea of misinformation and fear, driven by supposition and abject ignorance.

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Physics Hunter

Here's your post zippy...

How are the MEAT SHELVES looking By You' - Page 7

I tire of your doom and gloom and mobile goalposts.

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## East of the Beast

The sheer ...I don't want to say stupidity but fearfulness makes people stupid.My neighbor and his wife are good friends.They are Democrats and hang on every word from CNN and MSNBC.They live in fear every day since this thing started. They rarely go out even on the front porch, they wear the masks and gloves, all that BS....I'm out living my life like I always do and they think I'm nuts.

Rush had an interesting poll yesterday about how this "crisis" is being viewed by conservatives vs liberals.It has been absolutely politicized.My personal experience proves the results of that poll.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## UKSmartypants

Well wearing a mask is going to work to some degree, same as putting your hand  over your face when you sneeze, itll slow down the  outward burst and contain it. Whether they stop virus's coming in the other way is open to debate, but it fair to say any mask is better than no mask.

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## nonsqtr

> Here's your post zippy...
> 
> How are the MEAT SHELVES looking By You' - Page 7
> 
> I tire of your doom and gloom and mobile goalposts.


Now you're being an idiot.

Hey everyone, go read my post and tell me it isn't the exact same thing I just said.

If masks are so effective, how come they gotta burn off the outer layer of my skin when I want to work with this virus?

Go catch a clue. Look up "P4 biocontainment protocol".

This discussion is over for now.

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Physics Hunter

Yeah, you get to say it's over.   :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

God Bless,
PH

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## nonsqtr

> Well wearing a mask is going to work to some degree, same as putting your hand  over your face when you sneeze, itll slow down the  outward burst and contain it. Whether they stop virus's coming in the other way is open to debate, but it fair to say any mask is better than no mask.


Meh... look, wear a mask if you want. If it makes you feel better, do it.

Jeez, I've been studying the SCIENCE of this, and deliberately not listening to the ignorant bullshit on the evening news.

The science says it's the AIR FLOW that's causing the damage, and MASKS DONT HELP.

I have a PLETHORA of evidence to back up these statements.

All those nursing homes where people are dying right now, they've been wearing masks for TWO MONTHS, ever since President Trump suggested it on Mar 9. They're still dropping like flies.

All the places with very high concentrations of outbreak - meat packing plants, Terminal Island Federal Prison, yadda yadda - the one thing they all have in common is concentrated recycled air which GREATLY INCREASES THE PROBABILITY THAT VIRUS PARTICLES WILL STICK ON SURFACES.

All those people in all those places have been wearing masks - the wrong KIND of mask, that doesn't close snugly around your face and therefore isn't worth squat.

Go look at what a P4 facility actually is.

The very FIRST consideration is air flow.

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## East of the Beast

:Boxing:

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## nonsqtr

> Well wearing a mask is going to work to some degree, same as putting your hand  over your face when you sneeze, itll slow down the  outward burst and contain it. Whether they stop virus's coming in the other way is open to debate, but it fair to say any mask is better than no mask.


Why don't we do this the other way.

What actual evidence do you have that masks work?

Any?

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Knightkore (05-06-2020)

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## nonsqtr

> 


Nah, simple physics.

Sneeze in a room with no air flow, and the evidence of your destruction will be about 17 feet long and 3 ft wide (gravity, dontcha know).

Sneeze in a room with industrial air, and ten SECONDS later the virus particle will be on EVERY accessible surface in the room. You get it by touching a surface, then touching your face.

If you only knew how many times in the day you touch a surface, then touch your face. Try it - count. It's a hard thing to stay aware of, but I mean, after your count reaches 50 in 30 minutes you kinda get the point.

I suspect although I can't prove, that the gloves will do more for you than the mask will.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## UKSmartypants

> Why don't we do this the other way.
> 
> What actual evidence do you have that masks work?
> 
> Any?



Well there was a video floating around made by some uni that shows the attenuating effect of various face covers while sneezing, and you cant argue with Navier Stokes Airflow maths.. Something like this:








Apparantly lined bra cups make quite good N95 masks.

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nonsqtr (05-06-2020)

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## nonsqtr

Masks - so compare these pics:



Notice how the mask "surrounds" the face, and she's got it squeezed up by the bridge of the nose so it does a "pretty" good job of covering the surface area.

This one, not so good, lots of open space there:



The smaller mesh sizes sometimes have a valve in front, which isn't always the best thing either.

Why your N95 mask could endanger others - SFGate

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## Trinnity

> No, the science I rely on is PHYSICS.
> 
> If the viral particle is 100 nm big, you need a mesh SMALLER than that to trap the virus.
> 
> Double fuckin duh.
> 
> Do you contest this simple physics?


N100 masks block 100% of particles down to .3 microns. The virus is .1 microns. Masks make you touch your face more.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## nonsqtr

> Well there was a video floating around made by some uni that shows the attenuating effect of various face covers while sneezing, and you cant argue with Hamiltonian Airflow maths.. Something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparantly lined bra cups make quite good N95 masks.


K so this, can be understood kinda like a dart board.

When you sneeze, it's like throwing a dart. It will land "somewhere", and exactly where will be different each time and it'll depend on the precise angle of the head and nose and how much fluid is in the lungs at the time and etc.

If you throw "enough" darts, you will eventually see the shape of the distribution.

The point being, that the nature of the mask dramatically impacts the throwing of the dart.

As you can see from the last link, you'd expect more yellow from the valve mask and less from the medical mask.

The glopules are clusters of particles in a liquid solution, the liquid is called surfactant, it's on the surface of the inside of the lungs and it's kind of a slightly oily water, and it attracts virus particles. If you have a normal wet sneeze, a.lot of surfactant will be emitted and those are the glopules you see in the video.

However with a dry cough the scenario will be entirely different. Without surfactant individual virus particles are more likely to be emitted, they won't cluster in the liquid as before, and the glopules will be much smaller and there will be more of them with greater overall coverage.

I agree these things obey the laws of fluid Dynamics and aerodynamics. They make perfect sense in context.

There's vids that show you what COPD looks like. Glopules much larger because there's more liquid.  :Smile:

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## nonsqtr

> N100 masks block 100% of particles down to .3 microns. The virus is .1 microns. Masks make you touch your face more.


True. Because the virus isn't perfectly round and hard, it's squishy like an amoeba. Sometimes it can squeeze through an 80 nm hole. Rarely, though.

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## nonsqtr

Great example of a completely worthless mask.

(Note the caption - "CDC recommends" lol. This is TYPICAL of the bullshit coming out of the news media these days - "just stay at home and wear a mask when you go out, you'll be fine", and then they show you a perfect picture of the worthless mask and how not to do it).

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## UKSmartypants

well the point is masks do something, and theres nothing that will do 100%, apart from a NASA Class 10 Clean Room. It depends on what you want a mask to do. It may well contribute to increases you chances of not breathing a virus in, and it definitely contains your sneezes into a limited area so you dont broadcast it as much.. But most of the time the main route into your body is through your eyeballs anyways, they are the largest exposed mucous membrane. Your real discussion should be about goggles.

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),nonsqtr (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Knightkore

> well the point is masks do something, and theres nothing that will do 100%, apart from a NASA Class 10 Clean Room. It depends on what you want a mask to do. It may well contribute to increases you chances of not breathing a virus in, and it definitely contains your sneezes into a limited area so you dont broadcast it as much.. But most of the time the main route into your body is through your eyeballs anyways, they are the largest exposed mucous membrane. Your real discussion should be about goggles.



Look at the article I posted.  He cites other studies.

Mathematical Modeling of the Effectiveness of Facemasks in Reducing the Spread of Novel Influenza A (H1N1)


The effectiveness of surgical masks is low, therefore the impact of  wearing them during an epidemic is not significant. *Even at 50%  effectiveness in reducing both susceptibility and infectivity and with  50% of the population wearing surgical masks only a 6% reduction in the  number of cumulative cases is seen.*

 The  sooner an epidemic is recognized and masks are implemented, the bigger  the reduction in the number of cases will be. As seen in the results  section the epidemic is sensitive to the delay in implementing masks.  The difference in the total number of pandemic (H1N1) 2009 cases when  masks are implemented at 100 infected individuals and 1,000 infected  individuals is over 7%.

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## Knightkore

> Well wearing a mask is going to work to some degree, same as putting your hand  over your face when you sneeze, itll slow down the  outward burst and contain it. Whether they stop virus's coming in the other way is open to debate, but it fair to say any mask is better than no mask.



Influenza Virus Transmission Is Dependent on Relative Humidity and Temperature


Using the guinea pig model, we report a systematic analysis of the  effects of RH and temperature on influenza virus transmission in a  controlled setting. These data provide valuable insight into the  seasonality of influenza and will aid further research into both local  and global patterns of influenza virus spread within and between human  populations. Our findings furthermore suggest a novel means of infection  control for an important human pathogen. Influenza virus transmission  indoors could potentially be curtailed by simply maintaining room air at  warm temperatures (>20 °C) and either intermediate (50%) or high  (80%) RHs.

{If you KEEP your hand over your face at all times.....it ends up being worse.}

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## Trinnity

> True. Because the virus isn't perfectly round and hard, it's squishy like an amoeba. Sometimes it can squeeze through an 80 nm hole. Rarely, though.


IIRC, as it gets humid, water attaches to it and weighs it down. I also have a fat covering that is somehow harmed by Zinc. 

Hehe we're all doctors now.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## Trinnity

> well the point is masks do something,


They stoke paranoia, useful idiocy for the commie dems. "Never let a crisis go to waste".

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Jim Scott (05-06-2020),Knightkore (05-06-2020)

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## UKSmartypants

> Look at the article I posted.  He cites other studies.
> 
> Mathematical Modeling of the Effectiveness of Facemasks in Reducing the Spread of Novel Influenza A (H1N1)
> 
> 
> The effectiveness of surgical masks is low, therefore the impact of  wearing them during an epidemic is not significant. *Even at 50%  effectiveness in reducing both susceptibility and infectivity and with  50% of the population wearing surgical masks only a 6% reduction in the  number of cumulative cases is seen.*
> 
> The  sooner an epidemic is recognized and masks are implemented, the bigger  the reduction in the number of cases will be. As seen in the results  section the epidemic is sensitive to the delay in implementing masks.  The difference in the total number of pandemic (H1N1) 2009 cases when  masks are implemented at 100 infected individuals and 1,000 infected  individuals is over 7%.


UK currently has 194,000 cases,  and 29,000 deaths

Coronavirus Update (Live): 3,755,872 Cases and 259,406 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer


7% less is  14,000 cases and 2000 less deaths. If you pardon the pun, its not to be sniffed at.

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## Knightkore

> UK currently has 194,000 cases,  and 29,000 deaths
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 3,755,872 Cases and 259,406 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
> 
> 
> 7% less is  14,000 cases and 2000 less deaths. If you pardon the pun, its not to be sniffed at.



Compare THAT to the regular flu.


Here in America the flu killed 80,000 people in the season of 2017-2018.

The cruise ships had people quarantined and wearing masks and it actually spread faster on those ships.

I contend you fear mongering & panic porn is far more of a danger.

And I reject these numbers you post.

Just as you have dismissed the science in the article I posted & the scientific articles cited by the one who wrote the article.

Believe as you wish.

You are on ignore.  I don't waste time with panic pushers.

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Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Knightkore

I told people.....they push panic porn.....they will be put on ignore.

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## Trinnity

> Influenza Virus Transmission Is Dependent on Relative Humidity and Temperature


Just saw this. Excellent!

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Knightkore (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Knightkore

> Just saw this. Excellent!



The original article I posted has a lot of links to some real science stuff about all this.

It can get a bit technical but the conclusions are unmistakable.

The evidence is in about this so-called pandemic.  We're being played so we HAVE to get out all the information we can.  Will it help?  It appears some here still insist on peddling panic porn & want to believe the worst.

That is on them.  I won't have any part of it.  So many others are waking up.  Thank God to that.  The more people wake up.....the better chance we get our lives back.

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Jim Scott (05-06-2020),Quark (05-06-2020)

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## Quark

Well I go out to the park for my walk I can tell a Leftist (Liberal) from a Rightist (Conservative). The Leftist usually has a mask and walks six or more feet away from everybody. A Rightist usually has no mask, is friendly, and walks six feet or less away from everybody.

The Leftist is scared sh*tless of dying while the Rightist says we are all going to die sometime so lets get on with life.

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Jim Scott (05-06-2020),Kodiak (05-06-2020)

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## UKSmartypants

The difference you see in the UK is the left has shamelessy siezed this situation to make political capital and attack the government in the most outrageous, unfair ways. These people really are shit of the lowest order

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## Knightkore

Benefit of wearing a mask: socially acceptable,dont get any comments from the higher than thou wheres your mask?Thats it. Disadvantages of wearing a mask:decreased oxygen supply,increased carbon dioxide intake,increased bacteria intake, & ANY mask doesnt prevent the virus.

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## Trinnity

If someone chides me about no mask, I'll give them a dirty look and move on. Folks don't pay my bills.

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Abbey (05-08-2020),Knightkore (05-07-2020)

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## Knightkore

> If someone chides me about no mask, I'll give them a dirty look and move on. Folks don't pay my bills.



Can one make a garrote out of a mask?  Ya know.....to shut these people up?

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## Knightkore

It's ok to admit you've been played. I will still love you. Take your mask off , wipe your ass with it and drop it off on your police station steps. Go outside. Go to work. Hug each other. Turn off the Idiot Box. Flip the government the bird. You've been played. Lesson learned.

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## Abbey

> If someone chides me about no mask, I'll give them a dirty look and move on. Folks don't pay my bills.


 And, this is  still  AMERICA!

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Knightkore (05-12-2020)

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## Abbey

I don't know  why people  get a bug up their butts over others  not wearing  masks......I  thought  a mask was  supposed to  protect you?  So what's the problem? "You're " wearing  one,  aren't you?

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Hillofbeans (05-08-2020),Knightkore (05-12-2020)

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