# Politics and News > SOCIETY & humanities >  After Yale, Mizzou, raise the voting age  to 25

## Matt

This is a really good read. I had copy and pasted it but my cell phone really screwed it up. Despite it being USA Today the article struck me as well educated, well researched, and well thought out. I think with times changing this is great idea. Please read the article at the source below and come back and debate.

Glenn Reynolds: After Yale, Mizzou, raise the voting age â€” to 25

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DrPeeper1970 (11-13-2015)

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## Calypso Jones

I would be all for this.

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JustPassinThru (11-13-2015)

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## michaelr

No!

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## Matt

> No!


Why? Did you read the article??

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## Sled Dog

I"ve been after getting the voting age raised to 30 for years, since I was 26 and watching my fellow freshmen, the morons, in college.

They have no brains.

They exist to get drunk.

They have emotions, not thoughts.

Their hormones drive them to make whores moan.

They're CHILDREN.

Who in their right mind  wants CHILDREN to have a political voice?

Rodents do, because CHILDREN are easily led.

NO ONE WITH A BRAIN WANTS CHILDREN TO VOTE.

YOu have a brain, @michaelr, use it to expand on your "No" and explain why you want ignorant emotional children saddling the nation with *HER* after they've stuck us with the Traitor King and after they put The Rapist in office in 1992.

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JustPassinThru (11-13-2015)

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## RobertLafollet

What about the18 year old service men and women?

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## Matt

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


What about them? Going through basic doesn't guarantee that someone is going to wise up to the world.  I've known plenty of honorable but down right stupid people that have served.  Personally I still think the voting age should be higher.  I think the driving age should be higher too.

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## Sled Dog

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


What about them?

Naturally, men in military service shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Didn't you read Starship Troopers like you were supposed to before you grew up...

...oh...

...you vote Democrat, you haven't grown up yet...

Never mind.

If a military veteran successfully serves a six-year tour, then he gets to vote from the year he's discharged.

If he's a retired vet, minimum of 20 years, he gets to vote twice.

After all, they, unlike Democrats, have a proven record of loyalty and service to the nation.

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (11-13-2015)

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## East of the Beast

What about "Rock the Vote"?

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## Trinnity

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


Too damn bad. We don't have the draft.

I've been in favor of raising the voting age for a long time. 25 would be good, but at least 21. You should have some skin in the game. The Founders had only people who own property voting. There was good reason for that; anyone who needs it explained is a moron.

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## KSigMason

> What about them? Going through basic doesn't guarantee that someone is going to wise up to the world. I've known plenty of honorable but down right stupid people that have served. Personally I still think the voting age should be higher. I think the driving age should be higher too.


If one is too young to vote and has no say no, then they shouldn't be sent to fight.




> Naturally, men in military service shouldn't be allowed to vote.


So they shouldn't have a voice? I wholeheartedly disagree.

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## michaelr

> I"ve been after getting the voting age raised to 30 for years, since I was 26 and watching my fellow freshmen, the morons, in college.
> 
> They have no brains.
> 
> They exist to get drunk.
> 
> They have emotions, not thoughts.
> 
> Their hormones drive them to make whores moan.
> ...


You're showing defeatism. Also, and you and others need to realize this, no matter the hype, presidential elections are the least important election that we have. If you have congress with balls, the executive branch is limited. 

Instead of quitting, or being nice and liberal like by taking the rights and liberties away, you should fight fire with fire. 

I think the issue can be a red herring issue, a threat. I also think counter protests durring some of these peoples speeches is way more effective. They can only do what they do because of the constitution, show them that. 

You don't quit ten claim victory, you're right, I have a brain, and I do use it. Do the same.

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## michaelr

> Why? Did you read the article??


Yes, and I explained why.

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## michaelr

BTW it must be nice to belittle so many based on so few's actions. I can't do that!

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## keymanjim



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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (11-13-2015),KSigMason (11-13-2015),Matt (11-13-2015)

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## Matt

> BTW it must be nice to belittle so many based on so few's actions. I can't do that!


You literally do this every time any issue comes up with a police department or officer.   :Facepalm:

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Sled Dog (11-13-2015)

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## michaelr

> You literally do this every time any issue comes up with a police department or officer.


That's a lie, you don't know me, or anything about me. What you do know is when a cop abuses his or her power, I report it to show that in the structure, we have a problem. Weird, because part of that problem is people excusing abuses just because they're cops. See, that's me saying you have this 180 degrees out of phase!

Quit lying about me based on your childlike observations!

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


They can vote when they are out of the service.  No service man should be allowed to vote while in the military.

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Sled Dog (11-13-2015)

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## Matt

> That's a lie, you don't know me, or anything about me. What you do know is when a cop abuses his or her power, I report it to show that in the structure, we have a problem. Weird, because part of that problem is people excusing abuses just because they're cops. See, that's me saying you have this 180 degrees out of phase!
> 
> Quit lying about me based on your childlike observations!


I've known you for years now and getting butthurt and denying what we all see in you isn't going to really change anything.  You can insult me but I'm not really going to take you seriously.  We all know what you do on that topic.  You can't really run run from it (although I admire your effort). I'm not going to debate it - it's an open and closed point about you.  Sorry,  not sorry.

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## michaelr

> Ive know you for years now and getting butthurt and denying what we all see in you isn't going to really change anything.  You can insult me but I'm not really going to take you seriously.  We all know what you do on that topic.  You can't really run run from it (although I admire your effort). I'm not going to debate it - it's an open and closed point about you.  Sorry,  not sorry.


You haven't known me for one second. You're just a liar, and you seem to have a need to fuck up this thread. See ya!

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## Matt

> Too damn bad. We don't have the draft.
> 
> I've been in favor of raising the voting age for a long time. 25 would be good, but at least 21. You should have some skin in the game. The Founders had only people who own property voting. There was good reason for that; anyone who needs it explained is a moron.


I don't think we need a draft but I do support mandatory military service after high school.  The benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.

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## Quark

I didn't have to read the whole article that I can honestly say the age limit doesn't go far enough. We need an amendment that raises the voting to age 50 at least although I could live with 45. CDC now says that all children have autism and with the childish behavior going on at college these days and the fact that I've yet to see an adult much before age 40 we need a voting age much higher than 18 and even higher than 25.

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## Quark

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


Apples and oranges and I know because I was there once. 18 year olds are lead by older men and women who are there to wipe their noses and brush away their tears. Not so when it comes to voting.

Of course, you being a socialist I can see where you would want more useful idiots for your needs.

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JustPassinThru (11-13-2015)

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## Quark

> I don't think we need a draft but I do support mandatory military service after high school.  The benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.


I'm beginning to think along the same lines. I was required to go into the service and I hated it but I've come to think I'm a better man for it. However, with the socialists running the military I'm not so sure it would do any good any more.

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## KSigMason

> Weird, because part of that problem is people excusing abuses just because they're cops.


Yeah, but there are some who automatically jump on the "cops are bad" bandwagon if a shooting (or some other incident) occurs.




> They can vote when they are out of the service. No service man should be allowed to vote while in the military.


 :Punchballs: 




> I don't think we need a draft but I do support mandatory military service after high school. The benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.


So you'd force citizens to serve, but not able to vote?

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## DrPeeper1970

Imagine if you had to have a job to vote or retired.   Democrats would never win an election again lol

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KSigMason (11-13-2015)

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## Quark

> So you'd force citizens to serve, but not able to vote?


Yup. After serving most young people are too immature to vote. Military service really matured me a lot and I was pretty matured before I joined. And All I was was Army National Guard imagine what regular service does especially how much the Guard is used today. Of course, this might be a moot point now that socialists are running the service.

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## KSigMason

> Yup. After serving most young people are too immature to vote.


What a slap in the face. Also, I can look around at older individuals and see some immature, ignorant, and repugnant acts.

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## Corruptbuddha

I think we should revert to allowing only adult property owners to vote.

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## Matt

> I think we should revert to allowing only adult property owners to vote.


That's not a great idea.  Where does that leave renters? I think that would only cater to the rich and upper middle classes.

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## JustPassinThru

> What about the18 year old service men and women?


What about them?

Voting is not tied to military service.

Voting is not a right ennumerated in the Constitution.

Voting is a QUALIFIED right to those who meet State requirements.  And through most of the nation's history, most of the soldiers on active duty cannot vote.

Those who are angered that they, being too young, cannot vote...do not need to enlist.

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Trinnity (11-13-2015)

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## JustPassinThru

> I'm beginning to think along the same lines. I was required to go into the service and I hated it but I've come to think I'm a better man for it. However, with the socialists running the military I'm not so sure it would do any good any more.


I'm opposed to government compulsion under ANY circumstances!

In reality, during wartime a draft may be necessary for survival.  But to as a ROUTINE have government take young people...COMPEL them...to serve AS GOVERNMENT DIRECTS...is the antithesis of our free society and our custom of allowing the People to drive the culture and control the government.

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## Quark

> I'm opposed to government compulsion under ANY circumstances!
> 
> In reality, during wartime a draft may be necessary for survival.  But to as a ROUTINE have government take young people...COMPEL them...to serve AS GOVERNMENT DIRECTS...is the antithesis of our free society and our custom of allowing the People to drive the culture and control the government.


Generally I would agree with you but the thing about the military is that it's the largest socialized hippie commune in the world. When I was in the service I learned first hand what socialism is and was. When I finally left I was ready for freedom and capitalism and I'm not sure I would have been without my military service.

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## JustPassinThru

> Generally I would agree with you but the thing about the military is that it's the largest socialized hippie commune in the world. When I was in the service I learned first hand what socialism is and was. When I finally left I was ready for freedom and capitalism and I'm not sure I would have been without my military service.


Agree on all points.  In fact, I'd made the point to friends and unfortunates who had to listen to my harangues...the military is, in fact, a model of how and why a command-and-control economy does not work, can not work, and how incredibly much it can cost.

But it is not the government's PLACE to administer to the peons what is "good for them."  Not Right-Wing; not Leftist.  Free people have CHOICE - and that option, the option of CHOICE, is, in the end, why we fight.

Let others decide what is good for kids.  Family and community pressure to join the military is good.  Incentives are good.  Even local judges who used to offer the choice to kids, enlist or do some county time...at that local level, it's good.  Or at least acceptable - and it's turned around any number of kids who became lifetime soldiers.  I met many.

But compulsion, from Washingtoon...not only no, but HELLNO.

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## KSigMason

> I think we should revert to allowing only adult property owners to vote.


What about those who pay taxes?

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## Sled Dog

> If one is too young to vote and has no say no, then they shouldn't be sent to fight.


Why not?

It's a volunteer force.  They made the choice to follow orders when they signed up, what difference does voting make?




> So they shouldn't have a voice? I wholeheartedly disagree.


So?   As Heinlein pointed out, letting soldiers vote on when to fight would mean they'd never fight.

Jeez, doesn't anyone understand the military?

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## Sled Dog

> You're showing defeatism.


No.

I'm showing common sense.   It's the fucking idiot children in college that vote Rodent overwhelmingly.

It's the fucking idiot children in college that voted for the Traitor King....because it was "cool" to vote for the first mulatto president, and before that, the morons were voting in the Rapist because he could blow a saxophone.   

No, we don't need proven idiots participating in elections.  The candidates are bad enough, we don't need more in the ballot booth, and the experiment has gone on long enough to be a proven FAILURE.




> Also, and you and others need to realize this, no matter the hype, presidential elections are the least important election that we have.


Yes, I make sure I check out my dog catcher most carefully, because you never know when the dog catcher is going to help al qeada seized Libya and Iraq.




> If you have congress with balls, the executive branch is limited.


Right....and what brings the voters to the polls?   The name at the top of the ticket.  Which is why Presidents so often lose seats on the legislature on mid-terms, the impetus to vote is lessened when the is no "top of the ticket" to draw the crowds in.

Study psychology some more.    




> Instead of quitting, or being nice and liberal like by taking the rights and liberties away, you should fight fire with fire.


What a child.  I present LOGIC, and the widdle boy calls names.

Don't fucking bother the adults here, okay, until you actually make an effort to refute the points I made.  I don't care about your emotions.

Seriously, I don't.

Children shouldn't vote.   And guess what?  The nation has ALWAYS limited the franchise.  Learn some history, child.  All that we have today is a definition.    Jesus, you pretend to know shit, but you don't even know something as basic as that?

If it's a "right", why can't 10 year olds vote?  I've seen Rodents promote this stupid idea, what do you have to say against it?  That they're "too young"?  Yup, don't blather about strawmen, I'm already tired of you.




> I think the issue can be a red herring issue, a threat. I also think counter protests durring some of these peoples speeches is way more effective. They can only do what they do because of the constitution, show them that. 
> 
> You don't quit ten claim victory, you're right, I have a brain, and I do use it. Do the same.


Yawn.

I see a problem, I propose the most effective solution, you cry like a baby and get hormonal.

How droll.

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## Sled Dog

> BTW it must be nice to belittle so many based on so few's actions. I can't do that!


I can.

65,000,000 morons put the Traitor King in office.

I don't consider those things American and don't even consider them human.  There's something wrong with them, something seriously wrong with them.

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## Sled Dog

> You haven't known me for one second. You're just a liar, and you seem to have a need to fuck up this thread. See ya!



Okay, so you're attempting to derail the discussion because you don't like the topic and don't have the logic or facts to present a reasonable defense for your position or otherwise refute common sense.

Noted.

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## michaelr

> No.
> 
> I'm showing common sense.   It's the fucking idiot children in college that vote Rodent overwhelmingly.
> 
> It's the fucking idiot children in college that voted for the Traitor King....because it was "cool" to vote for the first mulatto president, and before that, the morons were voting in the Rapist because he could blow a saxophone.   
> 
> No, we don't need proven idiots participating in elections.  The candidates are bad enough, we don't need more in the ballot booth, and the experiment has gone on long enough to be a proven FAILURE.
> 
> 
> ...


Well, if you thinkk that your brand of fascist totalitarianism is better then theirs, then there's no hope for you. You and they are definitely in the same boat. I ain't getting in, I'm afraid I'd be the the only grownup aboard, and I don't baby sit.

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## Daily Bread

I , Me - should be the only one allowed to vote.

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## Sled Dog

> I don't think we need a draft but I do support mandatory military service after high school.  The benefits greatly outweigh any negatives.


Mandatory military service?

What the fuck for?

The Navy's submarine service was an elite service and damned if I'd be happy going to test depth with a bunch of conscripts.   

What would the military do with all that MEAT?   We'd have to pay them, we'd have to feed them, we'd have to clothe them, we'd have to train them, we'd have to HAVE A MISSION for them to do.

Where's the money going to come from?

And the Founding Fathers were adamant in their opposition to Congress keeping a standing army.   

Compulsory military service?  What an awful idea.  If a dumb shit doesn't want to serve, he should be allowed to get as far from the military as possible.

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JustPassinThru (11-13-2015)

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## michaelr

> Okay, so you're attempting to derail the discussion because you don't like the topic and don't have the logic or facts to present a reasonable defense for your position or otherwise refute common sense.
> 
> Noted.



I'd go back and reread te posts ifI were you. I was on the receiving end! Note that.

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## Sled Dog

> I didn't have to read the whole article that I can honestly say the age limit doesn't go far enough. We need an amendment that raises the voting to age 50 at least although I could live with 45. CDC now says that all children have autism and with the childish behavior going on at college these days and the fact that I've yet to see an adult much before age 40 we need a voting age much higher than 18 and even higher than 25.


If the CDC says all children are autistic it means something must be done.

We need to terminate the CDC.

They didn't do shit in the Zombie Apocalypse, anyway.

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## Sled Dog

> I'd go back and reread te posts ifI were you. I was on the receiving end! Note that.


But you're not me, the world can handle only one perfect person in each generation, and you're not it.

I am.

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## Sled Dog

> Imagine if you had to have a job to vote or retired.   Democrats would never win an election again lol


Heck, the AG of Virginia told a judge, in court, that requiring ID would make it much more difficult for the Rodents to win elections in that state.

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## michaelr

> I can.
> 
> 65,000,000 morons put the Traitor King in office.
> 
> I don't consider those things American and don't even consider them human.  There's something wrong with them, something seriously wrong with them.


Social engineers taught morons long ago that we had two parties, and one was better than the other. People vote what they want to believe, then spend years making excuses. 

I think there's plenty of blame to go around.

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## michaelr

> But you're not me, the world can handle only one perfect person in each generation, and you're not it.
> 
> I am.


Oh my, I have no room or time for perfection. I'll cede!

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## Sled Dog

> That's not a great idea.  Where does that leave renters? I think that would only cater to the rich and upper middle classes.


Since, here in California, renters can vote for property tax increases, but landlords cannot pass that increase to the renters, I say renters should be prevented from voting until they pay the taxes they're voting onto the property owners, and, naturally, they have to pay 100% of the rent, no Section 8's need bother.

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## JustPassinThru

> Mandatory military service?
> 
> What the fuck for?
> 
> The Navy's submarine service was an elite service and damned if I'd be happy going to test depth with a bunch of conscripts.   
> 
> What would the military do with all that MEAT?   We'd have to pay them, we'd have to feed them, we'd have to clothe them, we'd have to train them, we'd have to HAVE A MISSION for them to do.
> 
> Where's the money going to come from?
> ...


The military efficiency and morale increased TENFOLD once they went to an all-volunteer Armed Services.

And forcing people who don't want to be in there, in there...CHILDREN who are UNFIT for the honor and the responsibility...will do nothing but take the Armed Forces back DOWN to their Vietnam nadir.

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## KSigMason

> It's a volunteer force. They made the choice to follow orders when they signed up, what difference does voting make?


Who their Commander-in-Chief will be. Who their representatives in Congress who will declare the use of military will be. There's no actual good reason to prevent servicemen from voting.




> So? As Heinlein pointed out, letting soldiers vote on when to fight would mean they'd never fight.


Except the citizenry doesn't vote on whether or not to go to war. That power lies with the Congress. Allowing military personnel to vote wouldn't allow them to prevent their very use...that's just absurd.




> Jeez, doesn't anyone understand the military?


Having spent 12-years in with 2-deployments to Iraq as well as having a degree in International Relations focusing on asymmetric warfare and game theory, I have an idea or two about the military.

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## Sled Dog

> Who their Commander-in-Chief will be. Who their representatives in Congress who will declare the use of military will be. There's no actual good reason to prevent servicemen from voting.


Soldiers serve to fight.  They need to leave the politics to the maggots.  

I'm enamored of the Starship Trooper scenario, where no military service = no vote and no political career, but military service extends to the satisfaction of the command.  The soldier can resign, at any time, but forfeits his franchise and political career thereby.

I really agree that people who refuse to serve in the military shouldn't have a say in the operation of the country.  




> Except the citizenry doesn't vote on whether or not to go to war. That power lies with the Congress. Allowing military personnel to vote wouldn't allow them to prevent their very use...that's just absurd.


Uh-huh....and right now soldiers can vote.   Clearly you need to learn to separate hypothetical discussions from the real world.

I know one from the other.   If we make only military retirees both the voting and the political class, then all other rules also change. It's how the world emerged from the Crazy Years in Starship Troopers.   It may be the only way to emerge from this mess.

I'll be able to vote...




> Having spent 12-years in with 2-deployments to Iraq as well as having a degree in International Relations focusing on asymmetric warfare and game theory, I have an idea or two about the military.


That's good to know.   My degree was more practical.  So I know how to make things work.

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## KSigMason

> I'm enamored of the Starship Trooper scenario, where no military service = no vote and no political career, but military service extends to the satisfaction of the command.  The soldier can resign, at any time, but forfeits his franchise and political career thereby.


Yeah, you have a very Hobbesian and Machiavellian view. Have you read the book or just watched the movie?




> Uh-huh....and right now soldiers can vote.


Yeah. During each of my deployments I voted.




> Clearly you need to learn to separate hypothetical discussions from the real world.


I would say the same to you.




> I'll be able to vote...


Good for you.




> My degree was more practical.  So I know how to make things work.


How special for you.

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## QuaseMarco

The author makes a very good point, but it will never happen. Imagine trying to put this up for a vote in congress. There would be pandemonium in the streets, especially in heavily black <Afro-Amerikan> areas.

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## ahsum99ss

They need to vote in term limits,  but that will never happen.

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## Fast Eddy

As dumb as people are showing themselves to be, we need to put the poll exam back, a lot of people are too damn dumb to vote.

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Daily Bread (11-14-2015)

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## KSigMason

> <Afro-Amerikan>


Unless they were born or lived in Africa in their life, it's black folk.

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Sled Dog (11-14-2015)

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## ahsum99ss

Never served huh.

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## Sled Dog

> Yeah, you have a very Hobbesian and Machiavellian view. Have you read the book or just watched the movie?


Try reading the thread.

For some it might seem long, but girls tell me that all the time.




> Yeah. During each of my deployments I voted.


That's because rules are in place to permit that at this time.  It does not mean you should have been allowed to.  But if you'd read the book you'd understand what I'm referencing, but you're not discussing the book so you probably haven't read it.




> I would say the same to you.


But you didn't.  You said merely that you might say it in some future instance.




> Good for you.


Yes, isn't it?




> How special for you.


Being perfect has it's perks, I can assure you.

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## Sled Dog

> The author makes a very good point, but it will never happen. Imagine trying to put this up for a vote in congress. There would be pandemonium in the streets, especially in heavily black <Afro-Amerikan> areas.


Article V Convention of the States.

Getting any such Amendment through would require military action before hand, of course.  The country is deathly ill and cannot take the actions it needs to take now, it lacks the moral strength.

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## Sled Dog

> Unless they were born or lived in Africa in their life, it's black folk.


Exactly.  Traitor King Obama is an Afro. But not American.  Oh, no.  Native born non-naturalized Kenyans are NOT Americans.

But Senator Tim Scott is just American who happens to be black.

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## KSigMason

> Try reading the thread.
> 
> For some it might seem long, but girls tell me that all the time.


 :Lame: 




> That's because rules are in place to permit that at this time.  It does not mean you should have been allowed to.


There's still no good reason why I should have ever been prevented...other than your opinion.




> But if you'd read the book you'd understand what I'm referencing, but you're not discussing the book so you probably haven't read it.


I have read it. In fact, here is an email telling me I'm late turning it in:

Library Books.jpg




> Being perfect has it's perks, I can assure you.


So my father tells me.

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## Sled Dog

> There's still no good reason why I should have ever been prevented...other than your opinion.
> 
> 
> I have read it. In fact, here is an email telling me I'm late turning it in:
> 
> Library Books.jpg
> 
> 
> So my father tells me.


You STOLE a LIBRARY BOOK?   LOL and shame on you.   I read that book when I was seven, and I believe I have two copies of it around here somewhere.   

I'm going to quit picking on you now.   After all, you spent twice the time in uniform than I did.  But I figure the way the Rodents are polluting the military with queers and unqualified females, you'll not be wanting the military to be voting for much longer, too.

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## RMNIXON

How about you can't Vote until you have paid off your college loan?  :Smiley20:

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East of the Beast (11-14-2015)

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## East of the Beast

> How about you can't Vote until you have paid off your college loan?


That would eliminate about 60% of the electorate

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