# Politics and News > Rants, Opinions, Observations >  Stop Blaming the GOP for RINO Candidates..Blame voters instead.

## Irascible Crusader

I used to fall into that trap too, thinking that the GOP leadership was cramming wishy washy, conservative-lite, quasi statists down our throat like John McCain and Mitt Romney.  I heard the accusation over and over again that conservatives want solid conservatives such as Santorum, Bachman, Paul, or Cain but are being overridden by conspiracies in the upper echelons of the GOP to deprive us of a true conservative and force establishment protectors upon us.

I no longer believe that.

I now turn my rage against the rank and file sheeple in the Republican party that are voting for these RINO's and not conservatives.  I'm talking about the moms, dads, dentists, teachers, lawyers, doctors, mechanics...you know, everyday people.....that are going to the polls and selecting candidates that don't provide a real alternative from the Democrats.  Let's be honest, Mitt Romney and John McCain became the nominees because they got more votes, not because of the dirty, rotten nameless, faceless Republican conspirators at the top.

So am I recommending a 3rd party?

No, I'm not an idiot Branch Paulinian.  The Republican Party, for all its faults, is the best vehicle to advance conservative ideals and so it's the Republican Party that needs to be taken over by the Tea Party.  We need a revolution and I don't mean a Ron Paul revolution, but that's a step in the right direction.  Ron Paul was smart enough to understand that change needs to happen within the party, not without, unlike his brainless devotee cultists.  So we need to turn our attention to our friends and neighbors who say they want to limit government, protect civil liberties, and restore American greatness but then go and vote for raging statists with an R next to their name.  They aren't going to listen to Branch Paulinians because, let's face it, they're a bunch of kooks.  But they will listen to fellow Republicans who can convince them that there are better choices and they don't have to hold their noses and vote for the RINO's.  So it's up to us Tea Party Republicans to make this change.

That's my humble opinion.

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## The XL

I'll blame the voters and the party.  

How is a big government party filled with big government politicians and constituents the best way to advance a small government agenda?

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## Irascible Crusader

> I'll blame the voters and the party.  
> 
> How is a big government party filled with big government politicians and constituents the best way to advance a small government agenda?


Good question.

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## Guest

FYI, 

When people call me an idiot I just stop paying attention to everything beyond that point.  If you cannot be respectful then you don't deserve my respect.

That is the problem with Republicans in general.  You are abrasive and feel it is your right to be so.  If anyone else is "upstart" enough to disagree you rage at them, label them, and believe that somehow humans who believe in nonconformity will conform because you called them names.

I am going to do you a huge favor by telling you the truth.  It is your bad attitude that is a turnoff.  Independents hate you.  We hate you.  You are the party of assholes and shitheads.  You guys are mean.  No one wants to be associated with mean.

Now, I like you personally, and I'm going to not try to take the "idiot" thing too much to heart because you're nice to me in other ways, but...Republicans in general are rage-a-holics and need to learn how to be respectful even when frustrated because that behavior does not win you new converts.

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## The XL

> Good question.


Any answer?

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## The XL

> FYI, 
> 
> When people call me an idiot I just stop paying attention to everything beyond that point.  If you cannot be respectful then you don't deserve my respect.
> 
> That is the problem with Republicans in general.  You are abrasive and feel it is your right to be so.  If anyone else is "upstart" enough to disagree you rage at them, label them, and believe that somehow humans who believe in nonconformity will conform because you called them names.
> 
> I am going to do you a huge favor by telling you the truth.  It is your bad attitude that is a turnoff.  Independents hate you.  We hate you.  You are the party of assholes and shitheads.  You guys are mean.  No one wants to be associated with mean.
> 
> Now, I like you personally, and I'm going to not try to take the "idiot" thing too much to heart because you're nice to me in other ways, but...Republicans in general are rage-a-holics and need to learn how to be respectful even when frustrated because that behavior does not win you new converts.


It's not even the fact that Republicans are disrespectful, I don't really even care about that.  It's the fact they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about, and are a walking contradiction.  Libertarians see that, and rightfully don't support them.

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## Network

It doesn't matter what educated people think of your party or your candidates.  The media elects the presidential candidates for both parties.  

So, in a sense, your post is correct.  It is the fault of the people.  Very, very stupid people.  Democracy is a joke.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Any answer?


I thought the question was rhetorical.

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## Guest

> It's not even the fact that Republicans are disrespectful, I don't really even care about that.  It's the fact they don't even know what the fuck they're talking about, and are a walking contradiction.  Libertarians see that, and rightfully don't support them.


Well, that, too, but I'm trying to make a point because there are some small government people left wandering in the wilderness of the Republican Party.  They need to not only wander towards liberty, but leave behind the bad habits condoned by their GOP cohorts in the Republican echo chamber.  This will NOT get independent voters to want to throw in if that's the attack methodology.

I have much more in common views-wise with Republican voters than Democrats but I am so fucking sick of hearing Obama this, Obama that...they complain so much about useless petty crap and ignore any opportunity for action or those issues that can land us in totalitarian land relatively quickly.

They need to a) learn how to engage in respectful dialogue with everyone, b) be humorous, c) learn to prioritize, and d) quit obsessing on one man we don't need to win a battle and lose the war.

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## The XL

> I thought the question was rhetorical.


Voting for a big government party that is filled with big government politicians and is made up of big government constiuents is an endorsement of big government.  Change can't come from within when most Republicans support and vote big government.

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## The XL

> Well, that, too, but I'm trying to make a point because there are some small government people left wandering in the wilderness of the Republican Party.  They need to not only wander towards liberty, but leave behind the bad habits condoned by their GOP cohorts in the Republican echo chamber.  This will NOT get independent voters to want to throw in if that's the attack methodology.
> *
> I have much more in common views-wise with Republican voters than Democrats* but I am so fucking sick of hearing Obama this, Obama that...they complain so much about useless petty crap and ignore any opportunity for action or those issues that can land us in totalitarian land relatively quickly.
> 
> They need to a) learn how to engage in respectful dialogue with everyone, b) be humorous, c) learn to prioritize, and d) quit obsessing on one man we don't need to win a battle and lose the war.


Do you really have more in common with Republican voters, though?  Maybe economically.  But, at least in rhetoric, they support the American war machine, that same machine that killed your husband and my father, and they want bigger government on social issues.

Again, it's all rhetoric, as they wind up supporting the same people, but do you really even have that much more in common with the Republicans?  

Both parties and their constituents are fucking horrible.

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## Guest

> Voting for a big government party that is filled with big government politicians and is made up of big government constiuents is an endorsement of big government.  Change can't come from within when most Republicans support and vote big government.


They'll try it again though because they don't read anything but the Blaze and Breitbart.  There is a growing liberty movement with potential but they will ignore it.

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## Irascible Crusader

> FYI, 
> When people call me an idiot I just stop paying attention to everything beyond that point. If you cannot be respectful then you don't deserve my respect.
> 
> That is the problem with Republicans in general. You are abrasive and feel it is your right to be so. If anyone else is "upstart" enough to disagree you rage at them, label them, and believe that somehow humans who believe in nonconformity will conform because you called them names.
> 
> I am going to do you a huge favor by telling you the truth. It is your bad attitude that is a turnoff. Independents hate you. We hate you. You are the party of assholes and shitheads. You guys are mean. No one wants to be associated with mean.
> 
> Now, I like you personally, and I'm going to not try to take the "idiot" thing too much to heart because you're nice to me in other ways, but...Republicans in general are rage-a-holics and need to learn how to be respectful even when frustrated because that behavior does not win you new converts.


Branch Paulinians will only hinder the real solution.  They seek converts among Republicans to enlist to a strategy doomed to failure.  There will never be a viable 3rd party and the only option with the best chance of success is to seek to capture the soul of the Republican Party.  Prosyletizing Republican voters that are desperately needed within the party to change it is a flight of folly, especially when they're being convinced to waste their vote on losers. The true conservatives who have and are making a difference are Republicans such as Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and Governors Chris Walker and Jan Brewer.  They know and understand that to save the country, they have to work with the best vehicle to advance conservatism and that's NOT a 3rd party.

So, you're part of the problem.

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## Maximatic

We're not gonna ignore the MSM are we?

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## Network

But the media is a part of the entire GOP/Prog election scheme.  Damn right it is a conspiracy.  

My parents and siblings are smart, but they are dumb as shit when it comes to politics and spew media talking points.  They already had the two presidential candidates ingrained in their minds before Romney even started his republican primary debates.

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## The XL

The liberty movement will have to come from disenfranchised Democrats who hate all the war and the obliteration of our civil liberties, Republicans who are at least libertarian leaning, and libertarians and independents.  It can't come from one party itself, there are too many big government supporters in those two parties.

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## Network

The liberty movement should come from nullification of federal laws.  The top is a wasteland and will only send garbage down the line.

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## The XL

> The liberty movement should come from nullification of federal laws.  The top is a wasteland and will only send garbage down the line.


We need to do something to get the Feds out of office, because they won't take to kindly to nullification.  Could get messy.

Make no mistake, we need to make some noise and get our guys in Congress and hopefully the Presidency.

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## Irascible Crusader

> The liberty movement should come from nullification of federal laws.  The top is a wasteland and will only send garbage down the line.



^^^^This!

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## Guest

> Branch Paulinians will only hinder the real solution.  They seek converts among Republicans to enlist to a strategy doomed to failure.  There will never be a viable 3rd party and the only option with the best chance of success is to seek to capture the soul of the Republican Party.  Prosyletizing Republican voters that are desperately needed within the party to change it is a flight of folly, especially when they're being convinced to waste their vote on losers. The true conservatives who have and are making a difference are Republicans such as Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and Governors Chris Walker and Jan Brewer.  They know and understand that to save the country, they have to work with the best vehicle to advance conservatism and that's NOT a 3rd party.
> 
> So, you're part of the problem.



You are in a cycle of fail, having surrendered not only reason but free will to the propaganda of the two party system.  If enough people voted third party they would win.  There is nothing preventing a third party from winning.  It is only the buy in given to the lesser of two evils argument which makes it true.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy of doom.

You say you want small government and some jazz about being libertarian.  So do I.  The only difference is how we vote.  You vote big government to get small government.  I vote small government to get small government.

You are the one with the problem and need to change, not I.

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The XL (01-25-2013)

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## Guest

> The liberty movement should come from nullification of federal laws.  The top is a wasteland and will only send garbage down the line.


I agree with this, as well.  I'm still not voting Republican though unless it is Rand Paul.  The same is true of a lot of people.  People did not connect with Gary Johnson.  They went write in vote or stayed home.  Libertarians want the Pauls and the RNC pushes everyone else...what does that say about their respect for letting voters decide.

I will push hard for nullification.  That's a given.

Still will not vote for anyone I don't like just to not vote in a Democrat.  That is why the system is broken to begin with.  You are SUPPOSED to vote for who you actually want to see in office.

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## Dan40

> I'll blame the voters and the party.  
> 
> How is a big government party filled with big government politicians and constituents the best way to advance a small government agenda?


The answer is that the smaller parties, singularly or collectively have PROVEN themselves to be NOT up to the task.  The tea party, in a matter of months, and not being very wise at all, accomplished more than all the minor political parties combined, have in their less than illustrious history.

Had the tea party had the foresight to protect its name, and avoided the many pretenders, today it would BE the driving force of the Republican Party.  But the tea party erred and lacked that foresight, yet still out accomplished all the minor parties by FAR!

One of the 2 major parties is the only way to make change.  And the Democrat Party is not going to change.  The Republican Party can be brought back to its senses and its ideals.  The minor parties are overrun with wackos that will never allow the public to trust them.  That IS a shame, but it is what it is.  Similar wacko, "Tea Party," pretenders caused the tea party to  lose the public trust as well.

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Irascible Crusader (01-25-2013)

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## Maximatic

> Branch Paulinians will only hinder the real solution.  They seek converts among Republicans to enlist to a strategy doomed to failure.  There will never be a viable 3rd party and the only option with the best chance of success is to seek to capture the soul of the Republican Party.  Prosyletizing Republican voters that are desperately needed within the party to change it is a flight of folly, especially when they're being convinced to waste their vote on losers. The true conservatives who have and are making a difference are Republicans such as Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and Governors Chris Walker and Jan Brewer.  They know and understand that to save the country, they have to work with the best vehicle to advance conservatism and that's NOT a 3rd party.
> 
> So, you're part of the problem.


What are you talking about? Ron Paul ran as a Republican. We supported him as a Republican. We support Rand Paul and any other member of the Republican party that can be shown to be libertarian enough. We're just not gonna get behind bullshit progressive candidates just because they're in the Republican party. Sensible people will work with Republican candidates if we think they really want small government, but we're not going to reward progressivism in the party that claims opposition to it.

Unfortunately we just don't have that many acceptable options. Santorum, Bachman and Cain are not acceptable. They're all warmongering psychos. Santorum is one of the worst statists I know of. Cain proved himself a sellout as soon as he put his name in the hat by compromising on the fair tax, he supported the bailouts, loudly. I won't go on. That you would even mention them shows that we're not even in the same ballpark.

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## Irascible Crusader

> You are in a cycle of fail, having surrendered not only reason but free will to the propaganda of the two party system.  If enough people voted third party they would win.  There is nothing preventing a third party from winning.  It is only the buy in given to the lesser of two evils argument which makes it true.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy of doom.
> 
> You say you want small government and some jazz about being libertarian.  So do I.  The only difference is how we vote.  You vote big government to get small government.  I vote small government to get small government.
> 
> You are the one with the problem and need to change, not I.


That's crap.  You vote for losers and pretend that you make a difference when you don't.  I push for conservatives within the party to influence the party toward fiscal restraint, military reductionism, and constitutional retracement.  My efforts have met with success, yours haven't.  The only real failure is that of the Branch Paulinians to get any 3rd party candidates elected.  You have a perfect record of failure and have no room to point at the failures of others.

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## The XL

> The answer is that the smaller parties, singularly or collectively have PROVEN themselves to be NOT up to the task.  The tea party, in a matter of months, and not being very wise at all, accomplished more than all the minor political parties combined, have in their less than illustrious history.
> 
> Had the tea party had the foresight to protect its name, and avoided the many pretenders, today it would BE the driving force of the Republican Party.  But the tea party erred and lacked that foresight, yet still out accomplished all the minor parties by FAR!
> 
> One of the 2 major parties is the only way to make change.  And the Democrat Party is not going to change.  The Republican Party can be brought back to its senses and its ideals.  The minor parties are overrun with wackos that will never allow the public to trust them.  That IS a shame, but it is what it is.  Similar wacko, "Tea Party," pretenders caused the tea party to  lose the public trust as well.


Cool story bro.  You didn't really answer my question, but cool story nonetheless.  Republican party is made up of big government all the way.

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## The XL

> That's crap.  You vote for losers and pretend that you make a difference when you don't.  I push for conservatives within the party to influence the party toward fiscal restraint, military reductionism, and constitutional retracement.  My efforts have met with success, yours haven't.  The only real failure is that of the Branch Paulinians to get any 3rd party candidates elected.  You have a perfect record of failure and have no room to point at the failures of others.


How have you succeeded in any way?  The whole party is big government.  We can point at your failures because you support big government, we at least go down swinging.

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## Irascible Crusader

> How have you succeeded in any way?  The whole party is big government.  We can point at your failures because you support big government, we at least go down swinging.


The whole party isn't big government. The fact that you would make such a monstrously stupid claim means we can't have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

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## Maximatic

> How have you succeeded in any way?  The whole party is big government.  We can point at your failures because you support big government, we at least go down swinging.


Success must entail a growing government.

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## The XL

> The whole party isn't big government. The fact that you would make such a monstrously stupid claim means we can't have an intelligent conversation on the subject.


There are a few libertarian leaning Republicans, but the massive majority are big government Republicans.

Make no mistake, the reason we can't have an intelligent conversation on this issue is you, not me.  I'm not even sure why you're standing up for small government, you think it's fine and moral for the feds to deprave liberty from non violent peoples.

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## Irascible Crusader

> There are a few libertarian leaning Republicans, but the massive majority are big government Republicans.
> 
> Make no mistake, the reason we can't have an intelligent conversation on this issue is you, not me.


No, actually it's you, not me.  See how that works?

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## The XL

> Success must entail a growing government.


Right, and we've all failed miserably in that regard, but it least I'm voting my conscious.  Might not mean much, but voting Republican has not worked either.

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## Network

I'm an absolute pessimist when it comes to making changes at the national level.  The politicians simply buy their votes with promises to an already dependent 50?% of the people.  Most people will not vote against their own self-interest; kids, future, and nation taking a back seat.

I think we're a long ways off from widespread change, but the debt-doom may force it.  We have to educate a generation, unlike the past few generations who were educated by statists.  Babyboomers really have been a pathetic generation of people.  Just their sheer numbers going into retirement with LBJ's great society is unsustainable.

We'll face reality at some point, we'll be forced to.  There's the shining light, we've screwed up so bad that we'll be forced to see the light, even the dimmest bulbs.  lol.  




> *Education: Theory and Movement*
> We face the great strategic problem of all radical creeds throughout history: How can we get from here to there, from our current State-ridden and imperfect world to the great goal of liberty?
> 
> On one point there can scarcely be disagreement: *a prime and necessary condition* for libertarian victory (or, indeed, for victory for any social movement, from Buddhism to vegetarianism) is education: the persuasion and conversion of large numbers of people to the cause.
> 
> 
> Sadly, this point is missed by many. Without education  the persuasion and conversion of large numbers of people  there is no hope ever to see a movement toward liberty take hold. This was the benefit of Ron Pauls two recent presidential campaigns  through his efforts, countless millions have had the scales lifted from their eyes.
> 
> 
> ...

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## The XL

> No, actually it's you, not me.  See how that works?


Except I have facts on my side, as usual, and you do not, as usual.  The Republicans are by and large a big government party with big government politicians and constituents, and I can easily support my claim with facts.  You can't.

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## Irascible Crusader

> I'm an absolute pessimist when it comes to making changes at the national level.  The politicians simply buy their votes with promises to an already dependent 50?% of the people.  Most people will not vote against their own self-interest; kids, future, and nation taking a back seat.
> 
> I think we're a long ways off from widespread change, but the debt-doom may force it.  We have to educate a generation, unlike the past few generations who were educated by statists.  Babyboomers really have been a pathetic generation of people.  Just their sheer numbers going into retirement with LBJ's great society is unsustainable.
> 
> We'll face reality at some point, we'll be forced to.  There's the shining light, we've screwed up so bad that we'll be forced to see the light, even the dimmest bulbs.  lol.


The answer isn't to give up at the national level.  Somebody is going to run the federal government and it will be the most statist politicians and bureaucrats if conservatives give up the fight.  We must wage war at all levels and continue unabated and tireless in our efforts.  There is no salvation in local nullification if there isn't support for it at the national level.

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## Guest

> What are you talking about? Ron Paul ran as a Republican. We supported him as a Republican. We support Rand Paul and any other member of the Republican party that can be shown to be libertarian enough. We're just not gonna get behind bullshit progressive candidates just because they're in the Republican party. *Sensible people will work with Republican candidates if we think they really want small government, but we're not going to reward progressivism in the party that claims opposition to it*.
> 
> Unfortunately we just don't have that many acceptable options. Santorum, Bachman and Cain are not acceptable. They're all warmongering psychos. Santorum is one of the worst statists I know of. Cain proved himself a sellout as soon as he put his name in the hat by compromising on the fair tax, he supported the bailouts, loudly. I won't go on. That you would even mention them shows that we're not even in the same ballpark.


This, this, and more this  ^^

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## Irascible Crusader

> Except I have facts on my side, as usual, and you do not, as usual.  The Republicans are by and large a big government party with big government politicians and constituents, and I can easily support my claim with facts.  You can't.


You said the Republican party is all big government.  You clearly don't have the facts or even control of your own faculties.  You're a genius in your own mind, but in reality, you come across as an insufferable bore.

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## Guest

> That's crap.  You vote for losers and pretend that you make a difference when you don't.  I push for conservatives within the party to influence the party toward fiscal restraint, military reductionism, and constitutional retracement.  My efforts have met with success, yours haven't.  The only real failure is that of the Branch Paulinians to get any 3rd party candidates elected.  You have a perfect record of failure and have no room to point at the failures of others.


What success was that?  Were you trying to get Obama elected?

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## Maximatic

> Right, and we've all failed miserably in that regard, but it least I'm voting my conscious.  Might not mean much, but voting Republican has not worked either.


I was being sarcastic.

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## Irascible Crusader

> What success was that?  Were you trying to get Obama elected?


The success is in all the Tea Party, constitutional conservatives in the Republican party that we DID get elected.  So far you haven't even one 3rd party candidate.  Your fail rate is 100%. Live with that.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

What an absurd, delusional post. Of course the GOP is pushing establishment candidates. They even said so themselves. The NRSCC is specifically working out ways to keep the right from winning elections so only establishment-approved candidates would win. _They admitted it_. They aren't hiding it. You support a party whose very leadership is trying - and succeeding - to subvert your will.

The sheeple are definitely the majority of the GOP base, but you are proudly among their number.

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## Network

Our hand will be forced before Rand Paul sits on the throne.

Just chill out and stock up on beanie weenies.

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## Irascible Crusader

> What an absurd, delusional post. Of course the GOP is pushing establishment candidates. They even said so themselves. The NRSCC is specifically working out ways to keep the right from winning elections so only establishment-approved candidates would win. _They admitted it_. They aren't hiding it. You support a party whose very leadership is trying - and succeeding - to subvert your will.
> 
> The sheeple are definitely the majority of the GOP base, but you are proudly among their number.


Nobody is forcing people to vote for McCain or Romney.

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## The XL

> You said the Republican party is all big government.  You clearly don't have the facts or even control of your own faculties.  You're a genius in your own mind, but in reality, you come across as an insufferable bore.


I'm no genius, but I'm fucking Einstein compared to you.

Take your shitty strawman argument and shove it up your statist ass.  You know damn well I was not talking about literally every single member of the party.  The party as a whole is overwhelmingly big government, by a massive majority.  They support our imperialistic foreign policy, started the shredding of our civil rights, and are the cheap whores of bankers, the military industrial complex, and other special interests. 

Is that small government to you?  Is it?  

Goddamn.  You might be the stupidest person I've come across on any political forum.  Scratch that, any forum.  Go whine about drug users or something, my alleged small government friend.

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## Guest

> Nobody is forcing people to vote for McCain or Romney.


No, not force as in put a gun to people's heads, but you are the biggest bunch of howling babies when people don't.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Nobody is forcing people to vote for McCain or Romney.


And yet you did.

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## Network

lol.  You silly people, fighting over intricacies of a failed nation.  

The US is toast and will attempt to establish a global totalitarian society within the next few years.

All of you owe $300,000 for unfunded future med benefits alone.

US DNE

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## Irascible Crusader

> And yet you did.


No.

I. 

Didn't.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> No.
> 
> I. 
> 
> Didn't.


Really? So who was it? Obama? Johnson? Stein? Just didn't vote?

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## Irascible Crusader

> Really? So who was it? Obama? Johnson? Stein? Just didn't vote?


Read the OP again.  Apparently you've didn't get the fact that I was talking about the primaries.  Go study some more now.  There's a lad!

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Read the OP again.  Apparently you've didn't get the fact that I was talking about the primaries.  Go study some more now.  There's a lad!


My point, since you obviously missed it, is that the establishment GOP pushes establishment candidates because useful idiots will vote for the party no matter who gets the nod. They'll hate candidates like Romney until they get the nomination, then it's all aboard the Fail Train.

You voted McCain and Romney. You took the candidates they pushed you instead of voting for true conservatives like a good little sheep. Be at least a sliver of a man and own it.

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## Network

I voted for no one because democracy should be destroyed.

Law is obvious, it is natural, it is ingrained.

Believe it or not, all of the rest is manipulation.

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## Irascible Crusader

> My point, since you obviously missed it, is that the establishment GOP pushes establishment candidates because useful idiots will vote for the party no matter who gets the nod. They'll hate candidates like Romney until they get the nomination, then it's all aboard the Fail Train.
> 
> You voted McCain and Romney. You took the candidates they pushed you instead of voting for true conservatives like a good little sheep. Be at least a sliver of a man and own it.


You already know I voted for Bob Bar, not McCain.  Like I said, short memory.

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## Irascible Crusader

> I voted for no one because democracy should be destroyed.
> 
> Law is obvious, it is natural, it is ingrained.
> 
> Believe it or not, all of the rest is manipulation.


Democracy is the worst enemy of the Constitutional Republic, that's for sure.  The shift in representation to populist demands began in earnest when the Senate stopped representing state legislatures.  The founders were wise enough to understand it's a mistake for the masses to control both houses of Congress. We were foolish to second guess them.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> You already know I voted for Bob Bar, not McCain.  Like I said, short memory.


Whatever. You still voted for Romney. You're the GOP's bitch, whether you admit it or not.

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The XL (01-25-2013)

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## The XL

I'll play kindly with SaintMike, as kindly as I possibly can.

I'll state this as friendly as possible.  If the Republican party is not overwhelmingly big government, explain why they supported the NDAA, Patriot Act, our imperialistic foreign policy, crony capitalism and Keynesian economics?  Why do Republican constituents vote for big government politicians?

I'd like an answer, if you would.

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## Irascible Crusader

> I'll play kindly with SaintMike, as kindly as I possibly can.
> 
> I'll state this as friendly as possible.  If the Republican party is not overwhelmingly big government, explain why they supported the NDAA, Patriot Act, our imperialistic foreign policy, crony capitalism and Keynesian economics?  Why do Republican constituents vote for big government politicians?
> 
> I'd like an answer, if you would.


Your view is ecclectic.  You purpose to ommit that it was Republicans who pushed time and time again for a balanced budget ammendment, voted with unbroken solidarity against Obamacare, stopped further bailouts, and kept Fast and Furious from slipping undetected into the night.  You choose to see only one side of things and it's become for you a blindness.  You don't notice that it was Republicans who were trying to sound the alarm about the looming disaster because of the Democrat ran subprime loan ponzi.  The truth is, anything good Republicans do is lost on your type because you refuse to see it.  So they are forced to ignore you Branch Paulinians and look for people who don't have their heads up their asses and actually pay attention to politics.

----------


## Guest

> Your view is ecclectic.  You purpose to ommit that it was Republicans who pushed time and time again for a balanced budget ammendment,


Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Patriot Act. Or. NDAA. Which. Was. His. Question.




> voted with unbroken solidarity against Obamacare


Because they didn't need to vote for it, though something like 70% of the wording came from the Heritage proposal that Newt and Romney both supported.  They got what they wanted (over single payer) and got to act like they weren't involved--just like, I might add the Democrats who said they didn't go single payer because the Republicans wouldn't let it pass...they didn't want single payer, either.  Both of them wanted the corporatist solution.

It's strategy.




> , stopped further bailouts,


Woop. Dee. Doo.  They gave us the first one.  It's like a battered wife saying: He only beat me that one time.




> and kept Fast and Furious from slipping undetected into the night.


No, you did, the DonGlock's of the world did, the WNDs, the Blazes, the PEOPLE did.  It was a groundswell, not a Congressional push...they were forced into the fight with DOJ.




> You choose to see only one side of things and it's become for you a blindness.


Physician heal thyself.




> You don't notice that it was Republicans who were trying to sound the alarm about the looming disaster because of the Democrat ran subprime loan ponzi.


Democrats didn't run anything because Democrats didn't own banks.  You're missing the key ingredient here.




> The truth is, anything good Republicans do is lost on your type because you refuse to see it.  So they are forced to ignore you Branch Paulinians and look for people who don't have their heads up their asses and actually pay attention to politics.


I will tell you some good things Republicans have done on a federal level.

1. Finally supported Audit the Fed
2. George Bush's humanitarian bid for AID to Africa--it felt heartfelt and didn't look to have military attachments
3. School voucher programs
4. The Civil Rights Act--at the time it was necessary

That's about it.  On a state level, I can name hundreds.

----------


## The XL

The Republicans championed corporatist health care until Obama wanted it.  They voted against it because the Democrats had a supermajority and they knew they could save face.  Republicans in large voted for the bailouts, and their 2012 Presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, is on record as supporting them.  As far as and furious goes, Republican administrations have had their share of scandals too, like Wide Receiver, so I'm not giving them points there.  They're a big government party.   

My head isn't up my ass.  You Republicans have your heads up your own asses.  And your post did not refute any of the points I made, anyway.

----------


## Dan40

> lol.  You silly people, fighting over intricacies of a failed nation.  
> 
> The US is toast and will attempt to establish a global totalitarian society within the next few years.
> 
> All of you owe $300,000 for unfunded future med benefits alone.
> 
> US DNE


The people of Great Britain owe $193,776.00 US each.  Ireland is off the charts.  What is the point?  That there are many bad governments?

----------


## Dan40

> What are you talking about? Ron Paul ran as a Republican. We supported him as a Republican. We support Rand Paul and any other member of the Republican party that can be shown to be libertarian enough. We're just not gonna get behind bullshit progressive candidates just because they're in the Republican party. Sensible people will work with Republican candidates if we think they really want small government, but we're not going to reward progressivism in the party that claims opposition to it.
> 
> Unfortunately we just don't have that many acceptable options. Santorum, Bachman and Cain are not acceptable. They're all warmongering psychos. Santorum is one of the worst statists I know of. Cain proved himself a sellout as soon as he put his name in the hat by compromising on the fair tax, he supported the bailouts, loudly. I won't go on. That you would even mention them shows that we're not even in the same ballpark.


Just the bailouts.  I did not and do not support that they did happen.  Keep in mind that they came about in a Democrat controlled House and Senate.  And the not quite genius Bush signed them.  But the companies that did survive, have paid back the bailout LOANS with interest.  I don't think the govt had any business making such loans, but this may be the very rare case of politicians stepping in crap and coming out smelling like a rose.  The bailout LOANS are FAR different than the Stimulus, which was an actual bailout of Democrat state governments in the red..  No loan, just money flushed.

----------


## Dan40

> Cool story bro.  You didn't really answer my question, but cool story nonetheless.  Republican party is made up of big government all the way.


Your opinion, my opinion.  My opinion is mine, I don't confuse it with a FACT.  Your opinion is yours and also NOT a fact.

I'm relating to you the personal experience of watching this crap ebb and flow for 6 decades.

If you want to get something DONE instead of singing woeful ballads of what could have been,,,,,,,,,,,FOCUS.  That was the success of the tea party.  Less taxes, smaller govt'  NOTHING ELSE.

  No federal reserve, no term limits, no Constitution, no cut military, no cut welfare, just shrink the govt.   FOCUS, get the govt shrunk by 5%,,,,,,,,,,,THEN pursue another goal.  

Now TEA PARTY PRETENDERS have muddied the water with religion, abortion, war, no war, etc.  No longer any FOCUS.  No longer any trust.

Incredibly, with today's communication, we are dealing with the least informed electorate ever.  The people on internet forums are not your target, they are the only ones that are informed.  The public is busy watching youtube, and playing video games.  And they have the attention span of a brain damaged gnat.  Lazar like FOCUS.  No 49 points, that is insane.  No long party platform.  Those are only for preaching to the choir.  For the public, you have to get them to focus on and agree to one thing.  Do you think "Tax the rich!" was an accident?  That was the Democrat focus.  You saw a thousand other things, as did I.  The uninformed public focused on and bought into, "Tax the rich."

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webrockk (01-26-2013)

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## webrockk

Hard left progressive ideologues masquerade as mild mannered Democrats..or even moderate Republicans..to get elected.

Absolutist Libertarians/Social Conservatives/Fiscal Conservatives/Constitutional Constructionists would do well to adopt the same strategy.

but don't let me tell you how to run your country.  :Wink:

----------



----------


## Guest

> Hard left progressive ideologues masquerade as mild mannered Democrats..or even moderate Republicans..to get elected.
> Absolutist Libertarians would do well to adopt the same strategy.
> 
> but don't let me tell you how to run your country.


Web, 

why did you ever let me run off to Ethereal...?  You had me at Citizen's United.

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webrockk (01-25-2013)

----------


## webrockk

> Web, 
> 
> why did you ever let me run off to Ethereal...?  You had me at Citizen's United.


Lol.   I had to edit to add the other more recognizable right-wing factions.

----------


## Guest

> Lol.   I had to edit to add the other right-wing factions.


By all means...we must include them.  Dang...there's a lot of us.

----------


## webrockk

> By all means...we must include them.  Dang...there's a lot of us.


All going in different directions.  Fucking infuriates me.  

Some voters will turn their noses up at the most fiscally conservative/non interventionist/natural rights, liberty and economic freedom advocating candidate because they may not have an *absolutely pure* pro-life position on abortion.

Goes the other way, as well....My gay brother is a staunch fiscal conservative and leans far more Republican than Democrat on most issues ....but votes straight Progressive / Democrat ticket because...well...I think he's been swayed by all the "war on gays" rhetoric.  Out of the entire tribe, he's my favorite political jousting partner....

----------



----------


## Guest

> All going in different directions.  Fucking infuriates me.  
> 
> Some voters will turn their noses up at the most fiscally conservative/non interventionist/natural rights, liberty and economic freedom advocating candidate because they may not have an *absolutely pure* pro-life position on abortion.
> 
> Goes the other way, as well....My gay brother is a staunch fiscal conservative and leans far more Republican than Democrat on most issues ....but votes straight Progressive / Democrat ticket because...well...I think he's been swayed by all the "war on gays" rhetoric.  Out of the entire tribe, he's my favorite political jousting partner....


I can see that.  I'm a victim of single issue, myself.  1st and 4th amendment rights to me.  They are my bread and butter.  You can't protect those...I fucking hate you.

Hey, did you watch Rand's stand on the NDAA...8 minutes of pure win on why due process makes us Americans.

----------


## webrockk

> I can see that.  I'm a victim of single issue, myself.  1st and 4th amendment rights to me.  They are my bread and butter.  You can't protect those...I fucking hate you.
> 
> Hey, did you watch Rand's stand on the NDAA...8 minutes of pure win on why due process makes us Americans.


I'll check it out.  

I'm, as you know, a natural rights/natural law/economic freedom anarchist above all else....without a dramatic loosening of the noose on the economy, everything...  EVERYTHING...goes away....and Americans will ultimately all be slaves to individual rights and liberty killing "common good" economic fascists. ("neo-tots"....my new term for progressive leftists...neo-totalitarians   :Smile:  )

AND I DESPISE "PREEMPTIVE PUNISHMENT" laws....few things irk me more than a premise that subjects one to the justice system _without actually having violated anyone's natural rights_....fined, jailed, imprisoned because someone's natural rights _MIGHT_ be violated. Grrr.

I say burn a mother fucker at the stake (figuratively, of course...I'm talking SEVERE consequences) *AFTER the FACT.*

----------



----------


## Guest

> I'll check it out.  
> 
> I'm, as you know, a natural rights/natural law/economic freedom anarchist above all else....without a dramatic loosening of the noose on the economy, everything...  EVERYTHING...goes away....and Americans will all be slaves to individual rights and liberty killing "common good" economic fascists. ("neo-tots"....my new term for progressive leftists...neo-totalitarians   )


Can I borrow it?




> AND I DESPISE "PREEMPTIVE PUNISHMENT" laws....few things irk me more than a premise that subjects one to the justice system _without actually having violated anyone's natural rights_....fined, jailed, imprisoned because someone's natural rights _MIGHT_ be violated. Grrr.


I'm with you.  I'm an attorney who would be without work if I could be.




> I say burn a mother fucker at the stake (figuratively, of course...I'm talking SEVERE consequences) *AFTER the FACT.*


I'm for vigilante justice.  Seriously.  We did a podcast on who has interest in the crime...I'm going Old West style these days.

----------


## webrockk

> Can I borrow it?


 Sure, I'd love for it to catch on!  After all these progressive leftists yelled "neo-con" during the Bush years....and are now silent, defensive or lending slobbering support for _Obama's_ hawkish interventionism/nation building/assassinations/death by drone foreign policy...they deserve the same (actually, such fucking hypocrites deserve much, much worse) treatment.  It's only "fair", right? Fucking neo-tots...






> I'm with you.  I'm an attorney who would be without work if I could be.


 nothing against your profession....but we'd be a hell of a lot better off without spending hundreds of billions of dollars defending ourselves against the state's seemingly endless layers of laws and regulations every year.  (ATLA, et al lobby groups?  :Smile:  ) 






> I'm for vigilante justice.  Seriously.  We did a podcast on who has interest in the crime...I'm going Old West style these days.


I think it's the most effective deterrent.  I'm a strong advocate of the "armed society/polite society" construct.

----------


## liberal_hack

> You are in a cycle of fail, having surrendered not only reason but free will to the propaganda of the two party system.  If enough people voted third party they would win.  There is nothing preventing a third party from winning.  It is only the buy in given to the lesser of two evils argument which makes it true.  It is a self-fulfilling prophesy of doom.
> 
> You say you want small government and some jazz about being libertarian.  So do I.  The only difference is how we vote.  You vote big government to get small government.  I vote small government to get small government.
> 
> You are the one with the problem and need to change, not I.


You vote is not in line with what we the majority want from government. This is not 1776 any longer and we the people need services provided by the govt. If you really believe that kicking all of us to the curb is the answer then as I have said before, your vote for fringe candidates takes votes away from the GOP and in essence, helps support what the majority want. We want a fair America and the Democrat party is providing that.

----------


## St James

> You vote is not in line with what we the majority want from government. This is not 1776 any longer and we the people need services provided by the govt. If you really believe that kicking all of us to the curb is the answer then as I have said before, your vote for fringe candidates takes votes away from the GOP and in essence, helps support what the majority want. We want a fair America and the Democrat party is providing that.


you sound like a subject with his hand out saying "please feed me, because I am incapable to feed myself. I want the government to get my fair share from those who do work....." through force if neccessary. This explains your hatred and fear of guns...you'd probably get shot stealing from me..........
Fuck off mate! Liberty does not equal free...........
Your idea of a fairer America is to encourage stealing from honest hard-working stiffs to provide for those who are too fucking lazy to fend for themselves.

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Irascible Crusader (01-26-2013)

----------


## patrickt

> You vote is not in line with what we the majority want from government. This is not 1776 any longer and we the people need services provided by the govt. If you really believe that kicking all of us to the curb is the answer then as I have said before, your vote for fringe candidates takes votes away from the GOP and in essence, helps support what the majority want. We want a fair America and the Democrat party is providing that.


I suppose for you, expecting you to get a job is called "kicking you to the curb". No, it's not 1776 any longer. Now it's 1917, isn't it? You want the government to "give" to you. And you give, well, nothing but five votes every two years.

Does it bother you that your Rep. Pelosi said Obamacare was passed even though most Americans didn't want it and would have been passed if no one had wanted it. So much for your vaunted mob rule. The Constitution was designed to protect the minority from the majority. I realize that really frosts those who have zero interest in the individual.

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birddog (01-26-2013),St James (01-26-2013),webrockk (01-26-2013)

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> The Republicans championed corporatist health care until Obama wanted it.


 No, "the Republicans" didn't champion corporatist health care.  It was supported by a few Republicans but the idea was rejected by most of them from the start.  Try selling that shit elsewhere.



> They voted against it because the Democrats had a supermajority and they knew they could save face.


Yes.  And because they found it repugnant to our Constitutional republic.



> Republicans in large voted for the bailouts, and their 2012 Presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, is on record as supporting them.


  And every single one of them voted against any further bailouts after the first round.  You keep proving my point right. You have a deliberate blindness to any good they do.




> As far as and furious goes, Republican administrations have had their share of scandals too, like Wide Receiver, so I'm not giving them points there. They're a big government party.


  You have no clue what Operation Wide Receiver entailed. It's nothing like FAF.




> My head isn't up my ass. You Republicans have your heads up your own asses. And your post did not refute any of the points I made, anyway.


 Yes it is, no, and yes I did.

----------


## Canadianeye

> I used to fall into that trap too, thinking that the GOP leadership was cramming wishy washy, conservative-lite, quasi statists down our throat like John McCain and Mitt Romney.  I heard the accusation over and over again that conservatives want solid conservatives such as Santorum, Bachman, Paul, or Cain but are being overridden by conspiracies in the upper echelons of the GOP to deprive us of a true conservative and force establishment protectors upon us.
> 
> I no longer believe that.
> 
> I now turn my rage against the rank and file sheeple in the Republican party that are voting for these RINO's and not conservatives.  I'm talking about the moms, dads, dentists, teachers, lawyers, doctors, mechanics...you know, everyday people.....that are going to the polls and selecting candidates that don't provide a real alternative from the Democrats.  Let's be honest, Mitt Romney and John McCain became the nominees because they got more votes, not because of the dirty, rotten nameless, faceless Republican conspirators at the top.
> 
> So am I recommending a 3rd party?
> 
> No, I'm not an idiot Branch Paulinian.  The Republican Party, for all its faults, is the best vehicle to advance conservative ideals and so it's the Republican Party that needs to be taken over by the Tea Party.  We need a revolution and I don't mean a Ron Paul revolution, but that's a step in the right direction.  Ron Paul was smart enough to understand that change needs to happen within the party, not without, unlike his brainless devotee cultists.  So we need to turn our attention to our friends and neighbors who say they want to limit government, protect civil liberties, and restore American greatness but then go and vote for raging statists with an R next to their name.  They aren't going to listen to Branch Paulinians because, let's face it, they're a bunch of kooks.  But they will listen to fellow Republicans who can convince them that there are better choices and they don't have to hold their noses and vote for the RINO's.  So it's up to us Tea Party Republicans to make this change.
> ...


They've already been doing that. You should look up Precinct politics and the TEA party....how they have been doing this for a few years now. They are working from the ground up. It is the only way that has a chance. I believe I even saw mention of how they are doing this on the LSM a few times, oddly enough, as they usually steer clear of the real directions/initiatives the TEA Party movement takes.

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Irascible Crusader (01-26-2013)

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## Guest

> You vote is not in line with what we the majority want from government. This is not 1776 any longer and we the people need services provided by the govt. If you really believe that kicking all of us to the curb is the answer then as I have said before, your vote for fringe candidates takes votes away from the GOP and in essence, helps support what the majority want. We want a fair America and the Democrat party is providing that.


I don't think you're serious, but even if you were other than technology how are we different?

----------

Irascible Crusader (01-26-2013),St James (01-26-2013)

----------


## liberal_hack

> I don't think you're serious, but even if you were other than technology how are we different?


People were more equal then. Yes, there were some wealthy but I could fish and keep what i wanted and sell the rest 

I could go find land, build and farm on it. For most, home ownership is a distant dream. Since we have become what you would call a "civil" society there are people like you who instead of helping those in need wish to put them out into the cold. It really ticks me off when I read holier than thou opinions from people. We are all the children of God and we should provide for those in need

And to the topic of this thread.We do need more people like you in order to ensure that the GOP never again returns to power. That is not the America that people want any more. Our votes have shown that.

----------


## Dan40

> You vote is not in line with what we the majority want from government. This is not 1776 any longer and we the people need services provided by the govt. If you really believe that kicking all of us to the curb is the answer then as I have said before, your vote for fringe candidates takes votes away from the GOP and in essence, helps support what the majority want. We want a fair America and the Democrat party is providing that.


NO, you don't NEED services from the govt, you WANT services from the govt so you don't have to get off your lazy ass and work for what you WANT.  Better if supplied by the govt and paid for by,,,,,NOT YOU!

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Irascible Crusader (01-26-2013)

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## Guest

> People were more equal then. Yes, there were some wealthy but I could fish and keep what i wanted and sell the rest 
> 
> I could go find land, build and farm on it. For most, home ownership is a distant dream. Since we have become what you would call a "civil" society there are people like you who instead of helping those in need wish to put them out into the cold. It really ticks me off when I read holier than thou opinions from people. We are all the children of God and we should provide for those in need


Okay, I agree with some of that.  I don't believe that people can philosophically "own" land.  People should have the ability to hunt, trap, fish, forage.

As for caring for the poor, I feel that I have an obligation to do so as a follower of Jesus, but I don't believe that it is my right to steal from one person and give to the other.  I freely give and I am blessed to be able to give a lot.




> And to the topic of this thread.We do need more people like you in order to ensure that the GOP never again returns to power. That is not the America that people want any more. Our votes have shown that.


Well, people liked Lenin, too...for awhile.  The people in general like what they are told to like.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Okay, I agree with some of that.  I don't believe that people can philosophically "own" land.  People should have the ability to hunt, trap, fish, forage.
> 
> As for caring for the poor, I feel that I have an obligation to do so as a follower of Jesus, but I don't believe that it is my right to steal from one person and give to the other.  I freely give and I am blessed to be able to give a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, people liked Lenin, too...for awhile.  The people in general like what they are told to like.


People can't own land?  And you get upset when people call you a communist?

----------


## Guest

> People can't own land?  And you get upset when people call you a communist?


The land will be here if an asteroid comes and blows all of us and our infrastructure off the planet, Mike.  It is not there by the fruit of YOUR labor but God's.  What improvements you make up on it is a different story.

Catch up, please.

----------


## Dan40

> People were more equal then. Yes, there were some wealthy but I could fish and keep what i wanted and sell the rest 
> 
> I could go find land, build and farm on it. For most, home ownership is a distant dream. Since we have become what you would call a "civil" society there are people like you who instead of helping those in need wish to put them out into the cold. It really ticks me off when I read holier than thou opinions from people. We are all the children of God and we should provide for those in need
> 
> And to the topic of this thread.We do need more people like you in order to ensure that the GOP never again returns to power. That is not the America that people want any more. Our votes have shown that.


GOP in power, fairly recently, Forced Clinton into a BALANCED BUDGET with a total of nearly HALF a TRILLION in surplus.  Did any parasites starve?  NO.

Under the joke Bush, Deficits dropping from a high of $412.7 billion, that's billion, NOT TRILLION, down to a low of $160.7 billion, again a B not a T.  And the middle class KEEPING $1.7 TRILLION of their EARNED money in THEIR pockets instead of being wasted by Wash. DC.  And no parasites starved, and unemployment was below 5% until Democrats took power in FY 2008.

Democrat do not have anything to compete with those results.  Democrat control is MARKED by higher taxes, more spending and more WASTE.

----------


## Guest

> GOP in power, fairly recently, Forced Clinton into a BALANCED BUDGET with a total of nearly HALF a TRILLION in surplus.  Did any parasites starve?  NO.
> 
> Under the joke Bush, Deficits dropping from a high of $412.7 billion, that's billion, NOT TRILLION, down to a low of $160.7 billion, again a B not a T.  And the middle class KEEPING $1.7 TRILLION of their EARNED money in THEIR pockets instead of being wasted by Wash. DC.  And no parasites starved, and unemployment was below 5% until Democrats took power in FY 2008.
> 
> Democrat do not have anything to compete with those results.  Democrat control is MARKED by higher taxes, more spending and more WASTE.


When you use words like "parasites" instead of "people" you sound like a dick.  Just sayin'.

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## Irascible Crusader

> The land will be here if an asteroid comes and blows all of us and our infrastructure off the planet, Mike.  It is not there by the fruit of YOUR labor but God's.  What improvements you make up on it is a different story.
> 
> Catch up, please.


Apparently you forgot that God told man to take possession of the earth.  Stop posting and read Genesis. You're woefully lacking in Bible familiarity.

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> When you use words like "parasites" instead of "people" you sound like a dick.  Just sayin'.


People can't be parasites?

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## Guest

> Apparently you forgot that God told man to take possession of the earth.  Stop posting and read Genesis. You're woefully lacking in Bible familiarity.


He did?  Or did he give man stewardship?  Sorry, but you know JPII wasn't a dominionist, either.

----------


## Guest

> People can't be parasites?


Some people could have that unkind label attached, sure.  All?  I think it makes you sound like a dick when you say it.

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## Irascible Crusader

> He did?  Or did he give man stewardship?  Sorry, but you know JPII wasn't a dominionist, either.


The late John Paul II spent his entire life in a bitter battle against your evil ideology.  You'll never understand greatness like his.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Some people could have that unkind label attached, sure.  All?  I think it makes you sound like a dick when you say it.


That's your warped opinion.  I don't believe telling the truth makes one a "dick".

----------


## Guest

> The late John Paul II spent his entire life in a bitter battle against your evil ideology.  You'll never understand greatness like his.


I have no evil ideology and John Paul II was the true liberator of my country.  Walk the cranky off, Mike.

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## Guest

> That's your warped opinion.  I don't believe telling the truth makes one a "dick".


You're supposed to throw some facts in these posts before you call my opinion "warped".   :Wink:

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## Irascible Crusader

> I have no evil ideology and John Paul II was the true liberator of my country.  Walk the cranky off, Mike.


It's clear the lesson was lost on you, Polish or not.

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## Irascible Crusader

> You're supposed to throw some facts in these posts before you call my opinion "warped".






*warped  past participle, past tense of warp (Verb)*Verb
Become or cause to become bent or twisted out of shape, typically as a result of the effects of heat or dampness.Cause to become abnormal or strange; have a distorting effect on:  "judgment warped by your dislike of him".

----------



----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> People can't own land?  And you get upset when people call you a communist?


I don't believe it is possible to "own" land, nor ethical, but I won't stop someone from trying.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> It's clear the lesson was lost on you, Polish or not.


The lesson was just plain stupid, quite frankly. You're asserting that she's a communist. Remember that bit you said about words having meanings and aren't subject to personal interpretation?

Yeah. Cut the bullshit.

----------



----------


## Dan40

> When you use words like "parasites" instead of "people" you sound like a dick.  Just sayin'.


You select your vocabulary and STFU about mine.  Parasites are parasites.  I have been on these forums for years and have never complained once about people that need help due to whatever handicap they must bear.  Those are people.  Parasites are the assholes sucking the govt teat.

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Irascible Crusader (01-26-2013)

----------


## The XL

> No, "the Republicans" didn't champion corporatist health care.  It was supported by a few Republicans but the idea was rejected by most of them from the start.  Try selling that shit elsewhere.
> 
> Yes.  And because they found it repugnant to our Constitutional republic.
>   And every single one of them voted against any further bailouts after the first round.  You keep proving my point right. You have a deliberate blindness to any good they do.
> 
>   You have no clue what Operation Wide Receiver entailed. It's nothing like FAF.
> 
> 
>  Yes it is, no, and yes I did.


Just did a little googling, and about half of the Republican senate supported an individual mandate in 93, it was pretty popular among Republicans.  Mitt and Newt, two guys who ran in 12 supported it.  

Nah, they were saving face.  They knew they could look good and still not worry because it would pass and the insurance industry would get there handout.  

It was an idiotic gun running sting, just like Fast and Furious. 

No, you have not.

----------


## Guest

> You select your vocabulary and STFU about mine.


Dan, I love you.   :Big Grin:  

You make me happy when skies are gray.

----------


## Dan40

> The land will be here if an asteroid comes and blows all of us and our infrastructure off the planet, Mike.  It is not there by the fruit of YOUR labor but God's.  What improvements you make up on it is a different story.
> 
> Catch up, please.



Who does, "IMPROVEMENTS" on land they don't own?

----------


## Irascible Crusader

> Dan, I love you. 
> You make me happy when skies are gray.


Stop disarming your opponents through the judicious use of agape love.  Just stop it!

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## Guest

> Stop disarming your opponents through the judicious use of agape love.  Just stop it!


Hahaha, but I do.  He's awesome!

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## Guest

> Who does, "IMPROVEMENTS" on land they don't own?


Pretty much everyone.

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