# Politics and News > World Affairs >  Venezuela

## Roadmaster

People call it socialism but it's communist or Marxist, total chaos. Socialism doesn't mean the same as it was before. This is what Sanders wanted for our country.

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Beachcomber (04-21-2017),Old Ridge Runner (04-22-2017),Retiredat50 (06-11-2017),usfan (04-23-2017)

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## Jeffrey

I wonder, why doesn't the US stick its nose into SA affairs.  It doesn't mind interfering with other countries.
And Venezuela has oil?  Bush would have been on that like flies on stink.

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## Taxcutter

Socialism - in whatever form - never works.

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Old Ridge Runner (04-22-2017),patrickt (04-23-2017),Stonewall (04-22-2017)

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## Jeffrey

> Socialism - in whatever form - never works.


It depends om the degree of it and on the type of government used to enforce the socialist policy.   My wife and I know two couples from 
the UK and they seem to be contented.  The UK is a form of democratic socialism where the people can vote their preference.  

Venezuela is basically communist after having Chavez, who died of cancer. His successor apparently is communist too.  Socialism in its basic form is state ownership and or control of factors of production.  Socialist practices in the US include the VA healthcare system and public school systems.  I think the school systems are doing ok but the VA system is a waste of tax dollars. There is no incentive to excel in that fiasco.

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## Beachcomber

*"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.  Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"*

* -Winston Churchill*

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2cent (04-27-2017),BobJam (04-21-2017),jet57 (04-23-2017),JustPassinThru (04-21-2017)

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## Taxcutter

> I think the school systems are doing ok...



Taxcutter says:
You've got to be kidding us.

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JMWinPR (06-11-2017)

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## Roadmaster

They are ambushing the national guards today and shots fired all around.

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## Roadmaster

Fabian said it's like the movie purge over there right now. A lot of wounded people and chaos in the streets.

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## jet57

> People call it socialism but it's communist or Marxist, total chaos. Socialism doesn't mean the same as it was before. This is what Sanders wanted for our country.


Nope, Sorry, you're way wrong on that.  The country is coming apart, because like most people who get sick and tired of living under a military dictatorship installed  by the US, they decided to get up and do something about it.  Trump's associates are involved and a person that stood to Trump's right at his presidential announcement was seated at a table while the people in the room were swearing allegiance to ISIS.  So THAT'S who's running the streets in Indonesia.  Trump is going to get word of this in a few days, if he hasn't already, so watch how he handles his separation from that guy...

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## JustPassinThru

More revisionism by our Antifa stealth-member.

Completely fact-free, of course.   Does not discuss; cannot discuss.  Incapable of it.

He has his memes; his Narratives; his mission...and a big, fat mouth.

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Big Dummy (04-22-2017),BobJam (04-22-2017),usfan (04-23-2017)

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## Ginger

> People call it socialism but it's communist or Marxist, total chaos. Socialism doesn't mean the same as it was before. This is what Sanders wanted for our country.


I mentioned he's a communist on the lefty hate site. They bashed me of course. The man spent his honeymoon in moscow, ffs.

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## Stonewall

> I wonder, why doesn't the US stick its nose into SA affairs.  It doesn't mind interfering with other countries.
> And Venezuela has oil?  Bush would have been on that like flies on stink.



Wonder? You wonder?

No Soviet Union... No "Cold War"

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## patrickt

> It depends om the degree of it and on the type of government used to enforce the socialist policy.   My wife and I know two couples from 
> the UK and they seem to be contented.  The UK is a form of democratic socialism where the people can vote their preference.  
> 
> Venezuela is basically communist after having Chavez, who died of cancer. His successor apparently is communist too.  Socialism in its basic form is state ownership and or control of factors of production.  Socialist practices in the US include the VA healthcare system and public school systems.  I think the school systems are doing ok but the VA system is a waste of tax dollars. There is no incentive to excel in that fiasco.


I know people in the U.S., Jeffrey, who are on the dole and are mostly contented. They constantly say, "Is that all?" but they're not so dissatisfied that they want to work.

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JMWinPR (06-11-2017)

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## Canadianeye

> More revisionism by our Antifa stealth-member.
> 
> Completely fact-free, of course.   Does not discuss; cannot discuss.  Incapable of it.
> 
> He has his memes; his Narratives; his mission...and a big, fat mouth.


He is not even aware that some of, years ago on this forum and others...wrote about how Chavez was taking the family farms away from the families (because he portrayed them as elites) and gave the farms to the peasants, who knew nothing about how to run them properly...and hence, they were run completely into the ground, leading them into economic blight.

And then we spoke about his control of the narrative with the media.

Many of us said the sickness was going to get worse, and it did, and that has little to do with America, and looney left talking points supplied by people who have limited knowledge beyond those talking points.

Between you, me and the fencepost...they best start coordinating the purchase of arms from external sources, so they can fight back.

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JMWinPR (06-11-2017),usfan (04-23-2017)

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## jet57

> More revisionism by our Antifa stealth-member.
> 
> Completely fact-free, of course.   Does not discuss; cannot discuss.  Incapable of it.
> 
> He has his memes; his Narratives; his mission...and a big, fat mouth.


Ass Kicked.jpg

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## Rutabaga

> Ass Kicked.jpg



dats cute, cuddle buns...got any more?

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## Rutabaga

> Nope, Sorry, you're way wrong on that.  The country is coming apart, because like most people who get sick and tired of living under a military dictatorship installed  by the US, they decided to get up and do something about it.  Trump's associates are involved and a person that stood to Trump's right at his presidential announcement was seated at a table while the people in the room were swearing allegiance to ISIS.  So THAT'S who's running the streets in Indonesia.  Trump is going to get word of this in a few days, if he hasn't already, so watch how he handles his separation from that guy...


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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JMWinPR (06-11-2017)

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## sargentodiaz

While every other Central and South American country has a hands-off policy, Cuba supports Maduro. It may just be a case of deciding how far the Trump administration will go on the Open Cuba strategy. 

Far too many people are simply to weak and hungry to demonstrate. But, when tens of thousands rise up, it will depend upon the military as to what happens. If there becomes an interim government and they plead for help, it will be vital as to which countries respond.

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## usfan

> dats cute, cuddle buns...got any more?


I'm not sure if that's a self portrait, or what.. is is symbolic of the truth kicking his own butt?

 :Dontknow:

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## patrickt

> I wonder, why doesn't the US stick its nose into SA affairs.  It doesn't mind interfering with other countries.
> And Venezuela has oil?  Bush would have been on that like flies on stink.


Barack Obama was Hugo Chavez's bunk buddy and did all that he could to support Chavez/Maduro. Aren't you proud of what the Obama/Chavez/Maduro troika achieved for Venezuela?

And while Sean Penn and Michael Moore get mentioned as supporters of the Venezuelan dictatorship the man Michael Moore hoped to be, Oliver Stone, rarely gets mentioned. I wonder why NBC isn't running "South of the Border", Oliver Stone's tribute to the man he and Sean Penn and Michael Moore and Barack Obama consider a great man.

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JMWinPR (06-11-2017)

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## BobJam

> It depends om the degree of it and on the type of government used to enforce the socialist policy


 @Jeffrey

At what _". . . degree of . . . "_ socialism would you consider socialism a failure?  Below what  _". . . degree of . . ."_ socialism would you consider socialism a success?  IOW, where is that threshold above which socialism DOESN'T work, and where is that threshold below which socialism DOES work?  What is the reason you have chosen that threshold?

Likewise, what type(s) of government would be successful in _"enforcing socialist policy"_, and what type(s) of government would fail at _"enforcing socialist policy"_?  Why would those types of governments succeed or fail in doing that?




> The UK is a form of democratic socialism where the people can vote their preference


Would you define what you mean by the phrase _"democratic socialism"_?  IN YOUR OWN WORDS.

Please DON'T just reproduce the University of Google or the Wiki definition.  Describe it in your own words.

The reason I ask this is because the formal definion is all over the map, much like definitions of "conservative" or "liberal".

Your statement is meaningless until you describe WHICH flavor of _"democratic socialism"_ you mean.

For example, some forms of democratic socialism deny capitalism.

Plus, HOW is a parliamentary system of government (the U.K.) a democratic socialist form of government?

And if you're going to cite the SINGLE and narrow circumstance of socialized medicine as the basis upon which you're calling the U.K. system of government a democratic socialist form of government, that ain't going to get it.

Why?  Because a SYSTEM is much broader then a single solitary circumstance ALONE.  Tell us why the U.K. has a democratic socialist SYSTEM.





> My wife and I know two couples from the UK and they seem to be contented


That's your sample . . . _"two couples"_?  You're basing your conclusion on those two data points?  Your basing your conclusion on that anecdote?




> Socialist practices in the US include the VA healthcare system


Why is it socialist?  (I'm not saying it is or it isn't . . . I just want to know why you think it is.)




> and public school systems


Same question.




> I think the school systems are doing ok


This is huge.  Please tell us why you think the _"school systems are doing ok"_.

For example, how do U.S. students compare to students in other countries, say, in math and science?

If you say they are in the top tier, what is your evidence for that?

In what subjects have U.S. students improved beyond, say, what U.S. students in the 1950's and 1960's demonstrated?

If you say they have improved, what is your evidence for that?

What measurements, specifically, are you using that show _"school systems are doing ok"_?




> but the VA system is a waste of tax dollars


Do you think our veterans should receive medical care via a system specifically designed for them, especially those that have been disabled in the service of the country?

Would you replace the VA system with something else?  What, specifically?

Or would you repair the existing system?  How, specifically?

Or, since you say it is a "waste", would you scrap it completely, and leave veterans to find care on their own hook?

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Big Dummy (06-11-2017),Classical_Teacher (06-10-2017),JMWinPR (06-11-2017),patrickt (06-11-2017)

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## Classical_Teacher

> @Jeffrey
> 
> At what _". . . degree of . . . "_ socialism would you consider socialism a failure?  Below what  _". . . degree of . . ."_ socialism would you consider socialism a success?  IOW, where is that threshold above which socialism DOESN'T work, and where is that threshold below which socialism DOES work?  What is the reason you have chosen that threshold?
> 
> Likewise, what type(s) of government would be successful in _"enforcing socialist policy"_, and what type(s) of government would fail at _"enforcing socialist policy"_?  Why would those types of governments succeed or fail in doing that?
> 
> Would you define what you mean by the phrase _"democratic socialism"_?  IN YOUR OWN WORDS.
> 
> Please DON'T just reproduce the University of Google or the Wiki definition.  Describe it in your own words.
> ...


Democratic socialism is a myth.  Socialism is just a rung up the ladder of communism.  Democratic socialism is a term coined in our think-tanks in every college and university today.  

My brother-in-law is British.  His parents both died waiting for medical procedures.  His father had prostate cancer and his mother had a bad heart.  Both of them died unnecessarily because they were on a waiting list for the medical procedures which would have saved their lives.  That's what socialized medicine does.  It is the same all over Europe.  My sister was ooooing and ahhhing because when she was in Spain last year, she got sick with something and wound up at a clinic.  They gave her a bottle of wine when she left.  What hospital/clinic gives out bottles of wine??  What is the purpose of such a ridiculous act?  

Socialized ANYTHING is bound to fail.  But, you can't get that through the cement heads coming out of high school and college.  They've been spoon-fed this "pablum/poison" for so long that they don't know anything else.

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Big Dummy (06-11-2017),JMWinPR (06-11-2017)

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## BobJam

> But, you can't get that through the *cement heads*


_"Cement heads"_ . . .

Kewl . . . I like it.

You come up with some pretty neat terms (e.g. _"stoopid"_, and this one here.)

My compliments.

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Classical_Teacher (06-11-2017)

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## Classical_Teacher

> _"Cement heads"_ . . .
> 
> Kewl . . . I like it.
> 
> You come up with some pretty neat terms (e.g. _"stoopid"_, and this one here.)
> 
> My compliments.


A girl does what she can.  :Icon Queen:   Sometimes, things are so out of whack that all you can do is make up words to describe it.

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## patrickt

> I wonder, why doesn't the US stick its nose into SA affairs.  It doesn't mind interfering with other countries.
> And Venezuela has oil?  Bush would have been on that like flies on stink.


The U.S. helped make the mess. President Obama was a good friend to Hugo Chavez. When Hugo Chavez's puppet in Honduras, Zelaya, failed in his attempted coup President Obama couldn't wait to help Chavez and Zelaya.

President Obama supported anyone who hated America but had a preference for socialist/communist dictators.

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Classical_Teacher (06-12-2017)

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## Classical_Teacher

> The U.S. helped make the mess. President Obama was a good friend to Hugo Chavez. When Hugo Chavez's puppet in Honduras, Zelaya, failed in his attempted coup President Obama couldn't wait to help Chavez and Zelaya.
> 
> President Obama supported anyone who hated America but had a preference for socialist/communist dictators.


You are spot-on.  BO was friends with anyone who hates America and American values.  He made it no big secret either.  And, we know what Muffulatta thought about America.

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