# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Man Beating Dogs Dies After Being Tasered and Pepper Sprayed

## DonGlock26

> *Treon Johnson dies hours after being taken into custody**Police say officers used pepper spray, Taser gun on man accused of beating dogs*
> 
> Published On: Mar 03 2014 11:34:29 PM EST Updated On: Mar 04 2014 03:59:43 PM EST
> 
> 
> MIAMI GARDENS, Fla. -The family of a man suspected of abusing dogs wants to know what led to his mysterious death.
> Treon Johnson died just hours after being taken into custody Thursday.
> 
> Hialeah police said a 911 caller claimed the 27-year-old man jumped into the backyard of his home and was beating his dog with a metal pipe. Witnesses told police Johnson then jumped into a neighboring yard and began beating another dog.
> ...


This is how this should have went down. The dogs' owners should have contracted with a private police force to come out and taser and pepper spray the madman.

Then, if he died, it would be ok because the death would be private police related and not gov't police related.

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Perianne (03-10-2014),SiouxzyQ (03-10-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> *Backyard Fighting Star Treon Johnson Died After Being Tasered by Hialeah Police*
> 
> 
> By Kyle Munzenrieder Tue., Mar. 4 2014 at 1:20 PM
> 
> 
> Treon "Tre" Johnson, a central figure in an upcoming Rakontur documentary on backyard brawling, died on Thursday after a confrontation with Hialeah Police. Officers responded to a report and found Johnson standing on a rooftop throwing coconuts at a dog who had bitten him. To subdue Johnson they used a taser gun and pepper spray. He died shortly after.It's the third case of a man dying after being Tasered by police in Miami-Dade in less than a month.
> 
> 
> ...



The dog beater appears to have a violent background......

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## Katzndogz

He got what he deserved.  He will never beat a dog again.  People like this don't stop with dogs.   Lives were saved that day.

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Matalese (03-10-2014),OceanloverOH (03-10-2014),Perianne (03-10-2014),SiouxzyQ (03-10-2014)

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## Matalese

Yep.

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## hoytmonger

Why call cops at all? The dog owner should've protected his property... oh yea, that's right... protecting your own property is frowned upon by the state.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014)

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## Matalese

> Why call cops at all? The dog owner should've protected his property... oh yea, that's right... protecting your own property is frowned upon by the state.
> 
> When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


Not fla. Fla is a stand your ground state. The black leadership is trying to do away with stand your ground.

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DonGlock26 (03-10-2014)

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## Matalese

Notice the article is bitching about young men dying after being tasered? All the haters of cops scream that they should use their tasers then when they do the haters of cops scream some more.

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## Invayne

Good. The cops were doing a good thing here.

Animal and child abusers can rot in hell for all I care.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014),OceanloverOH (03-10-2014)

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## michaelr

> This is how this should have went down. The dogs' owners should have contracted with a private police force to come out and taser and pepper spray the madman.
> 
> Then, if he died, it would be ok because the death would be private police related and not gov't police related.


So now a dog's life is worth more than a mans?

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## Invayne

> So now a dog's life is worth more than a mans?


This "man"? Yep. Fuck him.

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Matalese (03-10-2014),OceanloverOH (03-10-2014)

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## OceanloverOH

Nothing pisses me off more than when some asshat abuses a being smaller and helpless to protect themselves.  Animal abusers and child abusers....eye/eye and tooth/tooth.  He got off easy with a few squirts of pepper spray and a couple of jolts from the taser.  If I had caught him, I would've beat HIM with a pipe.  Nobody mentions what kind of shape the dog was in after a beating like that.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014),Invayne (03-10-2014),Trinnity (03-10-2014)

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## Matalese

> So now a dog's life is worth more than a mans?



When the animal is being abused by said man? You bet your ass.

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## michaelr

> When the animal is being abused by said man? You bet your ass.


Interesting. I posted a thread the other day depicting a cop that beat and choked a dog to death before decapitating it and sending the pictures of it to his girlfriend, who in turn gave this cop some hot sex because it. Now should this cop die too, or do you reserve that for the rest of us who aren't cops?

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## Invayne

> Interesting. I posted a thread the other day depicting a cop that beat and choked a dog to death before decapitating it and sending the pictures of it to his girlfriend, who in turn gave this cop some hot sex because it. Now should this cop die too, or do you reserve that for the rest of us who aren't cops?


The same should go for that psycho.

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## michaelr

> The same should go for that psycho.


I agree, but disagree with the sentence. A few years in prison, where they'll be treated like dogs works for me.

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## Invayne

> I agree, but disagree with the sentence. A few years in prison, where they'll be treated like dogs works for me.


Yeah, I guess a few years of butt-rape would suffice...make him WISH he were dead.

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## Matalese

> Interesting. I posted a thread the other day depicting a cop that beat and choked a dog to death before decapitating it and sending the pictures of it to his girlfriend, who in turn gave this cop some hot sex because it. Now should this cop die too, or do you reserve that for the rest of us who aren't cops?


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:  :Smiley ROFLMAO:  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## DonGlock26

> Why call cops at all? The dog owner should've protected his property... oh yea, that's right... protecting your own property is frowned upon by the state.
> 
> When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.


Like what? Gun him down?

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## DonGlock26

> Notice the article is bitching about young men dying after being tasered? All the haters of cops scream that they should use their tasers then when they do the haters of cops scream some more.


It's like they want to bring back the nightstick beatings. Frankly, they are NEVER satisfied.

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## DonGlock26

> So now a dog's life is worth more than a mans?


Are you REALLY trying to say that the police judged the man's life worthless and then murdered him? Is that what you are about?

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## DonGlock26

> This "man"? Yep. Fuck him.


The dog beater? I wonder, if he was hopped up on recreational drugs.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Notice the article is bitching about young men dying after being tasered? All the haters of cops scream that they should use their tasers then when they do the haters of cops scream some more.


I'm already seeing that some can't separate the alleged animal cruelty from the actual event that caused him to be subdued by cops.  This happened on the other cop hater thread with the jay walking jogger too.  Idiots kept asking why somebody should be roughed up just for jay walking.  When somebody resists the police, the issue is no longer what they're accused of, the issue is the felony they're currently committing by not cooperating with law enforcement.

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## Matalese

> The dog beater? I wonder, if he was hopped up on recreational drugs.


ya think? He was on da roof throwing coconuts.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## DonGlock26

> Interesting. I posted a thread the other day depicting a cop that beat and choked a dog to death before decapitating it and sending the pictures of it to his girlfriend, who in turn gave this cop some hot sex because it. Now should this cop die too, or do you reserve that for the rest of us who aren't cops?


Link? That sounds bizarre. But, aren't you acting like a death sentence was carried out in this thread, when it was a case of restraining a POS beating dogs with a rod?

Would you prefer a dog owner just killing him?

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## Mordent

Was he a Mormon?

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## DonGlock26

> I'm already seeing that some can't separate the alleged animal cruelty from the actual event that caused him to be subdued by cops.  This happened on the other cop hater thread with the jay walking jogger too.  Idiots kept asking why somebody should be roughed up just for jay walking.  When somebody resists the police, the issue is no longer what they're accused of, the issue is the felony they're currently committing by not cooperating with law enforcement.


Exactly, the truth is that the police can legally use force to subdue a person resisting arrest. By resisting arrest and fighting with the police, the person is escalating the incident far beyond the original complaint or violation. It's like these people who hate authority do not want to admit that people resist arrest. They would rather emotionally claim that a man was killed for a minor violation. It is either intellectually dishonest to make an emotion-laced swipe at cops or irrational.

What is really irrational is that they think private mercenaries would be nicer than civil servants.

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## DonGlock26

> Was he a Mormon?


I don't think a car top carrier was involved.

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## Mordent

> I don't think a car top carrier was involved.


I bet he's Canadian. They club seals.

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## Archer

> He got what he deserved.  He will never beat a dog again.  People like this don't stop with dogs.   Lives were saved that day.


Can we kill the cop who recently killed a dog for barking?

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## michaelr

> 


Is that supposed to replace intelligent discussion? It's not working. Why not just answer the question?

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## michaelr

> Are you REALLY trying to say that the police judged the man's life worthless and then murdered him? Is that what you are about?


I never came close to saying that. Listen, if you believe that you're on the right side of the issue, and I'm on the wrong side, then why in the hell would you attempt to put words in my mouth?

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## michaelr

> Link? That sounds bizarre. But, aren't you acting like a death sentence was carried out in this thread, when it was a case of restraining a POS beating dogs with a rod?
> 
> Would you prefer a dog owner just killing him?


Here is your link.


http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...l=1#post239732

No I'm not acting a death sentence was carried. It you and others that this guy deserved to die, you went as far as calling for private police to the killing. Hypocrite much?

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## Irascible Crusader

> Here is your link.
> 
> 
> http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...l=1#post239732
> 
> No I'm not acting a death sentence was carried. It you and others that this guy deserved to die, you went as far as calling for private police to the killing. Hypocrite much?


Who said that the guy deserved to die?  Did Donglock say that, or did somebody else say that?

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## michaelr

> Who said that the guy deserved to die?  Did Donglock say that, or did somebody else say that?


Reread the thread, your answer is self evident.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Reread the thread, your answer is self evident.


Then why are you accusing Donglock of that?

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## michaelr

> Then why are you accusing Donglock of that?


Did you read the OP? Now I have a question. Why must jump to the defense of a few members?

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## Matalese

> Did you read the OP? Now I have a question. Why must jump to the defense of a few members?


Better yet why do you defend the abuser of innocent animals? Every living thing on this damn planet has but one life. That dogs life was just as valuable to him as yours is to you. We kill animals to eat, we don't have to abuse them.

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Invayne (03-10-2014),OceanloverOH (03-10-2014),Perianne (03-10-2014)

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## Irascible Crusader

> Did you read the OP? Now I have a question. Why must jump to the defense of a few members?


Michaelr, you're usually the one who complains about people putting words in your mouth.  Katzndogs said he deserved to die. Matalese agreed.  On Post 32, you said that DonGlock said it too.  I'm not jumping to anyone's defense, just asking that you exercise the golden rule.  If you don't like it done to you, then don't do it to others.  I don't think I'm being unfair to you.

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## michaelr

> Better yet why do you defend the abuser of innocent animals? Every living thing on this damn planet has but one life. That dogs life was just as valuable to him as yours is to you. We kill animals to eat, we don't have to abuse them.


I think this guy should be in prison, not dead. The cop on my thread, he too deserves prison. If you can please take the time, and show me where I defended this guy's actions, and I'll fix the damn post. In other words, you're putting words in my mouth, and that's distasteful....pun intended!

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## michaelr

​


> This is how this should have went down. The dogs' owners should have contracted with a private police force to come out and taser and pepper spray the madman.
> 
> *Then, if he died, it would be ok* because the death would be private police related and not gov't police related.





> Michaelr, you're usually the one who complains about people putting words in your mouth.  Katzndogs said he deserved to die. Matalese agreed.  On Post 32, you said that DonGlock said it too.  I'm not jumping to anyone's defense, just asking that you exercise the golden rule.  If you don't like it done to you, then don't do it to others.  I don't think I'm being unfair to you.


Really?

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## Irascible Crusader

> ​
> 
> 
> 
> Really?


Did you miss the sarcasm?

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## Matalese

> I think this guy should be in prison, not dead. The cop on my thread, he too deserves prison. If you can please take the time, and show me where I defended this guy's actions, and I'll fix the damn post. In other words, you're putting words in my mouth, and that's distasteful....pun intended!


You don't even know why he's dead. The coroner's report hasn't been released. You just want to knee jerk and blame the cops. Consider this, if the dead man had not trespassed into two yards and beaten two defenseless animals he would never had come into contact with the police. The cops tasered him. Taser ring does not normally produce death. The man put himself at risk by acting like an asshole. Too bad for him. I won't miss him.

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## michaelr

> You don't even know why he's dead. The coroner's report hasn't been released. You just want to knee jerk and blame the cops. Consider this, if the dead man had not trespassed into two yards and beaten two defenseless animals he would never had come into contact with the police. The cops tasered him. Taser ring does not normally produce death. The man put himself at risk by acting like an asshole. Too bad for him. I won't miss him.


I'm sure the taser had something to with that, but it's completely irrelevant.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014)

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## michaelr

> Did you miss the sarcasm?


Really?

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## Matalese

> I'm sure the taser had something to with that, but it's completely irrelevant.


What's irrelevant is your knee jerk hatred of officers.

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DonGlock26 (03-10-2014)

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## michaelr

> What's irrelevant is your knee jerk hatred of officers.


I don't have a hatre towards cops or any group of people.

Hey did you find the post where I defended this guy, are are you going to admit, and possibly apologize, to putting words in my mouth?

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fyrenza (03-10-2014)

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## Irascible Crusader

> Really?


 :Geez:

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## Matalese

> I don't have a hatre towards cops or any group of people.
> 
> Hey did you find the post where I defended this guy, are are you going to admit, and possibly apologize, to putting words in my mouth?


Listen dude you get no apologies, I've stated my case and given my reasons. It's yours to take or to leave.

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## Invayne

> The dog beater? I wonder, if he was hopped up on recreational drugs.


He wasn't smoking weed, that's for sure.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014)

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## michaelr

> Listen dude you get no apologies, I've stated my case and given my reasons. It's yours to take or to leave.


So you just lied about me, and that's apparently fine with you. Doesn't your credibility mean anything to you. I would never defend the actions of this fuck. Beating a dog is about as bad as beating a woman or a child. You have no reasons to make that accusation.....no logical reason that is.

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fyrenza (03-10-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> Here is your link.
> 
> 
> http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...l=1#post239732
> 
> No I'm not acting a death sentence was carried. It you and others that this guy deserved to die, you went as far as calling for private police to the killing. Hypocrite much?








Are you losing this discussion so badly that you have to put words in my mouth?

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## michaelr

> Are you losing this discussion so badly that you have to put words in my mouth?


I don't put words in people's mouths, I am to good at using theirs against them.

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## DonGlock26

> I don't put words in people's mouths, I am to good at using theirs against them.


When are you going to start? I never said he should have been killed. I was ridiculing the voluntarist form of private contract criminal justice.

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## michaelr

> When are you going to start? I never said he should have been killed. I was ridiculing the voluntarist form of private contract criminal justice.


You said the right thing to do is allow private police tase him, then if he died it would be fine.

Now I'll get your words, and I didn't take that out of context.

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## Invayne

DAMMIT, I am the one that is glad he was killed, and I don't give 2 shits for animal and child abusers. If I had my way, I'd kill them all myself.

There.

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## Matalese

we still don't know why the man died. The coroners report has not been released. But keep arguing and hating the cops.

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DonGlock26 (03-10-2014)

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## Matalese

he could have died from cocaine, or meth. hell he was o the roof tossing coconuts. who's to say?

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## michaelr

> we still don't know why the man died. The coroners report has not been released. But keep arguing and hating the cops.


Who is hating cops? Huh? I'll argue my point with or without your permission.

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## Matalese

or what's that new drug that free people take? bath salts.

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## Matalese

> Who is hating cops? Huh? I'll argue my point with or without your permission.


do so, and I'll comment without your permission.

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## michaelr

BTW, no one that I know of said his death was taser related. I did say it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

There, no one can put those words in my mouth.

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## michaelr

> do so, and I'll comment without your permission.


You have permission to answer my question.

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## Matalese

> You have permission to answer my question.



wait for it.

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## michaelr

> wait for it.


I'm a little smarter then that. It seems you make wild accusations that you can't back up. Why would I wait for nothing?

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## Invayne



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## DonGlock26

> You said the right thing to do is allow private police tase him, then if he died it would be fine.
> 
> Now I'll get your words, and I didn't take that out of context.


You mean now you understand that is was sarcasm?

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## michaelr

> You mean now you understand that is was sarcasm?


No it wasn't. It was your honest feelings, anyone can see that. You thought it would be fine if he died do to a taser that isn't linked to the real police. Your only concern was saving face for the police. Your words pal, and it was honest, not a hint of sarcasm.

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## DonGlock26

> he could have died from cocaine, or meth. hell he was o the roof tossing coconuts. who's to say?


Probably bath salts i.e. synthetic drugs.

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## DonGlock26

> No it wasn't. It was your honest feelings, anyone can see that. You thought it would be fine if he died do to a taser that isn't linked to the real police. Your only concern was saving face for the police. Your words pal, and it was honest, not a hint of sarcasm.


LOL!!!  Epic fail, dude, just epic. 

You have no idea that the volunteerist are calling for private law enforcement? Really?

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## hoytmonger

> Not fla. Fla is a stand your ground state. The black leadership is trying to do away with stand your ground.


Why, then was a woman in Florida sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot because her ex was becoming violent?

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## michaelr

> LOL!!!  Epic fail, dude, just epic. 
> 
> You have no idea that the volunteerist are calling for private law enforcement? Really?


No, it isn't. You know, for what its worth, honest is very respectable. I have respect for you and others when we see eye to eye on some issues, and I will until you become dishonest. I'll get your post Glock, and you can't show sarcasm, but it was honest. You want to take that away for the sake of this argument? Really, think its worth it.

There was no sarcasm, any idiot can see that!

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## hoytmonger

> Like what? Gun him down?


If somebody were to come in my yard and proceed to beat my dog with a pipe that bastard would have six holes in him you could drive a golf ball through.

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Invayne (03-10-2014),Matalese (03-10-2014)

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## Invayne

> Why, then was a woman in Florida sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot because her ex was becoming violent?


Yep, I remember that. And if I remember correctly, they found her guilty because she left the house...went into the garage, or something, and got a gun. They say she should have kept going once she left the house.

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## DonGlock26

> If somebody were to come in my yard and proceed to beat my dog with a pipe that bastard would have six holes in him you could drive a golf ball through.


So, do you care that he died?

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## DonGlock26

> No, it isn't. You know, for what its worth, honest is very respectable. I have respect for you and others when we see eye to eye on some issues, and I will until you become dishonest. I'll get your post Glock, and you can't show sarcasm, but it was honest. You want to take that away for the sake of this argument? Really, think its worth it.
> 
> There was no sarcasm, any idiot can see that!


I've explained that I was ridiculing the absurd rantings of the volunteerists about private contract police being the answer to the gov't cop question. 

You have gone beyond just having it go over your head. Now, you are being purposefully obtuse in order to keep attacking me. It's not going to work.

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## michaelr

> This is how this should have went down. The dogs' owners should have contracted with a private police force to come out and taser and pepper spray the madman.
> 
> Then, *if he died, it would be ok* because the death would be private police related and not gov't police related.





> I've explained that I was ridiculing the absurd rantings of the volunteerists about private contract police being the answer to the gov't cop question. 
> 
> You have gone beyond just having it go over your head. Now, you are being purposefully obtuse in order to keep attacking me. It's not going to work.


What you said was, plain, and honest to your opinion. I don't know you're trying to say here.

It is as I stated.

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## St James

> The dog beater appears to have a violent background......


anyone that would use a metal pipe on a dog.......especially one that is chained...............his death was premature....being beat at the end of a collar and chain would have been better. Thanks @DonGlock26

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## DonGlock26

> What you said was, plain, and honest to your opinion. I don't know you're trying to say here.
> 
> It is as I stated.


Just stop. The purposefully obtuse act isn't going to work here.

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## DonGlock26

> anyone that would use a metal pipe on a dog.......especially one that is chained...............his death was premature....being beat at the end of a collar and chain would have been better. Thanks @DonGlock26


It's a shame the cruelty that human animals do to dogs and cats, etc.

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## michaelr

> Just stop. The purposefully obtuse act isn't going to work here.


I'm not being odtuse, and you're being dishonest!!!

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## DonGlock26

> I'm not being odtuse, and you're being dishonest!!!


Yes, you are being purposefully obtuse. I was ridiculing the absurd position of the cop hating volunteerists here and you refuse to accept it.

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## Matalese

> If somebody were to come in my yard and proceed to beat my dog with a pipe that bastard would have six holes in him you could drive a golf ball through.


now now you're gonna piss the michalr off.

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## hoytmonger

> So, do you care that he died?


No. I care that the state forces people to rely on them for everything instead of allowing civilians to be self sufficient.

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## hoytmonger

> He wasn't smoking weed, that's for sure.


I wouldn't put money on that.

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## hoytmonger

> So now a dog's life is worth more than a mans?


The 'man' fucked up when he decided to infringe on someone else's inalienable rights. By doing so he forfeited his.

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## Invayne

> I wouldn't put money on that.


Seriously? LOL!! Marijuana does NOT make you violent...

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## Matalese

> Why, then was a woman in Florida sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot because her ex was becoming violent?


Because there are laws against just waving a gun around discharging it. I think her case has been reviewed. She would have been okay had she just busted a cap in his ass.

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## Max Rockatansky

> This is how this should have went down. The dogs' owners should have contracted with a private police force to come out and taser and pepper spray the madman.
> 
> Then, if he died, it would be ok because the death would be private police related and not gov't police related.


Incorrect.  All deaths are investigated regardless of who did it.  Unless deemed natural causes, all are autopsied.  I'm guessing this asshole was on drugs or something

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## Max Rockatansky

> Yep, I remember that. And if I remember correctly, they found her guilty because she left the house...went into the garage, or something, and got a gun. They say she should have kept going once she left the house.


Correct and then *Marissa Alexander* shot near her ex's head with children in the house.  What she did was wrong, but her sentence is due to mandatory sentencing rules, not a miscarriage of justice.  

Many mandatory sentencing rules were imposed by people who think judges were favoring whites and being harsher on blacks.  Mandatory rules take justice out of the hands of judges and might as well put it in the hands of a computer.  The idea grew further with the idea that harsher, mandatory sentences would solve inner city drug problems.  It didn't.  It just put a lot of black kids in jail for a very long time.

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## Max Rockatansky

> I think this guy should be in prison, not dead.....


Agreed, which is why the police used tasers and pepper spray instead of filling him full of 9mm if I'd seen him beating my dog with a pipe in my yard.

The fact he died is tragic, but unplanned.  The autopsy will tell us more.

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michaelr (03-11-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> Incorrect.  All deaths are investigated regardless of who did it.  Unless deemed natural causes, all are autopsied.  I'm guessing this asshole was on drugs or something


Incorrect about the madness of volunteerists? How?

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## Max Rockatansky

> Incorrect about the madness of volunteerists? How?


No, but seeing how you bypass 90% of a post then jump to a wild conclusion has always fascinated me.

Incorrect that private cops shooting a criminal won't be investigated.  It doesn't matter if it is private or public cops, the death of a person, innocent or criminal, is investigated.  

IMO, it's better to let the city have the liability of a wrongful death suit than a private citizen, but you are free to take a swing at that pitch.

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## michaelr

> Yes, you are being purposefully obtuse. I was ridiculing the absurd position of the cop hating volunteerists here and you refuse to accept it.


Of course I refuse to accept it, as your words do not reflect that.

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## michaelr

> The 'man' fucked up when he decided to infringe on someone else's inalienable rights. By doing so he forfeited his.


It should only cost a few years of freedom.

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## michaelr

> Agreed, which is why the police used tasers and pepper spray instead of filling him full of 9mm if I'd seen him beating my dog with a pipe in my yard.
> 
> The fact he died is tragic, but unplanned.  The autopsy will tell us more.


Yup!

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## squidward

> The 'man' fucked up when he decided to infringe on someone else's inalienable rights. By doing so he forfeited his.


all citizens have rights

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michaelr (03-11-2014)

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## hoytmonger

> It should only cost a few years of freedom.


If the 'man' were beating on a car or lawn tractor, yes. Trespassing and beating someone's animal to death exhibits a lack of civility punishable by death. In my opinion.




> all citizens have rights


Until they forfeit them by infringing on someone else's.

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Archer (03-11-2014),Invayne (03-11-2014),Matalese (03-11-2014)

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## hoytmonger

> Seriously? LOL!! Marijuana does NOT make you violent...


It doesn't make a violent person placid either.

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## michaelr

> If the 'man' were beating on a car or lawn tractor, yes. Trespassing and beating someone's animal to death exhibits a lack of civility punishable by death. In my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Until they forfeit them by infringing on someone else's.


I appreciate and respect your honesty. This is one we'll have to agree to disagree on. I was at one time pro death penalty. I was young and dumb. DNA has exonerated to many people for me to support that besides, life in prison then the big guy upstairs is like two hells, and that works for me.

Now, of course I'm a bit of a hypocrite, anyone fucks with my family better hope the cops save them, because I wont. That's what makes this a sketchy subject for me.

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## hoytmonger

> I appreciate and respect your honesty. This is one we'll have to agree to disagree on. I was at one time pro death penalty. I was young and dumb. DNA has exonerated to many people for me to support that besides, life in prison then the big guy upstairs is like two hells, and that works for me.
> 
> Now, of course I'm a bit of a hypocrite, anyone fucks with my family better hope the cops save them, because I wont. That's what makes this a sketchy subject for me.


Here's something for you to consider...

http://mises.org/daily/4468

It doesn't justify my position, but it may add to your knowledge on the subject of capital punishment.

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## michaelr

> Here's something for you to consider...
> 
> http://mises.org/daily/4468
> 
> It doesn't justify my position, but it may add to your knowledge on the subject of capital punishment.


I'm a die hard libertarian. When we allow the death of one innocent American, we took more then their life, we took not only their liberty, but the liberties of the next innocent victims, families of same, and still the crime that bought them the death penalty goes unsolved, and that can have far reaching consequences.

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## squidward

> Until they forfeit them by infringing on someone else's.


Before or after trial ?

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