# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

## Figaro

The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.


http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html



It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates (threaten women) than to thwart crime (about halfway down this page)
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...use/index.html
I declare a holy war started

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## Katzndogz

Slate.  This isn't a surprise.   Liberal media touting a liberal cause.

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JustPassinThru (01-26-2015),Old Ridge Runner (01-26-2015),Victory (01-27-2015)

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## Pregnar Kraps

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...

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Old Ridge Runner (01-26-2015)

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## JustPassinThru

A liberal solution to liberal chaos.

SURE...the way to stop bad guys with guns, is to DISARM THE GOOD GUYS.

Worked in Colorado, in that theater which advertised itself as a No-Gun Zone, didn't it?  How about in Montreal?  How about in PARIS, where the unarmed cops were begging for their LIVES before being slaughtered?  Wasn't that a REAL successful response to homicidal cretins with guns?

The question I have, is why do we have to put up with spambot posters like this "person."  Just a pipeline to the mental sewage and swill that pollutes liberal minds...spewed all over here like a busted sewer main.

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Victory (01-27-2015)

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## Figaro

> A liberal solution to liberal chaos.
> 
> SURE...the way to stop bad guys with guns, is to DISARM THE GOOD GUYS.
> 
> Worked in Colorado, in that theater which advertised itself as a No-Gun Zone, didn't it?  How about in Montreal?  How about in PARIS, where the unarmed cops were begging for their LIVES before being slaughtered?  Wasn't that a REAL successful response to homicidal cretins with guns?
> 
> The question I have, is why do we have to put up with spambot posters like this "person."  Just a pipeline to the mental sewage and swill that pollutes liberal minds...spewed all over here like a busted sewer main.


Why the fuck are you calling me a liberal? Liberals tend to be quite accepting of many things on the edges of society - drug use and abortion, homosexuality and incest (maybe soon). I`m not liberal, I`m just fuken hate idiots with guns. And have nothing  against an adequate people

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## Trinnity

> I declare a holy war started


Is this an admission? Are you a Muslim?

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Pregnar Kraps (01-26-2015),Victory (01-27-2015)

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## Trinnity

> Why the fuck are you calling me a liberal? Liberals tend to be quite accepting of many things on the edges of society - drug use and abortion, homosexuality and incest (maybe soon). I`m not liberal, I`m just fuken hate idiots with guns. And have nothing  against an adequate people


Who exactly are you calling an idiot, @Figaro? I have guns. I've never had one pointed at me and I've never pointed one at any person. And I'm not calling you a liberal either. You don't strike me quite that way.

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Pregnar Kraps (01-26-2015),Victory (01-27-2015)

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## JustPassinThru

> Why the fuck are you calling me a liberal? Liberals tend to be quite accepting of many things on the edges of society - drug use and abortion, homosexuality and incest (maybe soon). I`m not liberal, I`m just fuken hate idiots with guns. And have nothing  against an adequate people


Idiots with guns will always have guns.  AS WE KEEP SEEING.  Because it's easy to manufacture a gun in your garage.

Oh, not a very-good, accurate gun.  But a zip gun beats a billy club, EVERY TIME.  And it CERTAINLY makes disarmed civilians cower and beg.

I'm opposed to IDIOTS.  With or without guns.

Including idiots on Internet forums, who spread libburl Talking Points around like litter from an overturned trash can.

If the shoe fits...kick yourself with it.

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## Figaro

> Is this an admission? Are you a Muslim?


Not only Muslims are holy warriors. I'm a Crusader  :Laughing11:

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## Foghorn

Eliminating guns is a great idea.  I think we should try an experiment and see how it goes.  Pick a large city at random, say Washington D.C., and ban guns from the entire city.  If all goes well, then other cities can follow their lead.

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Victory (01-27-2015)

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Two people were killed at a Home Depot in Manhattan NYC recently.  NYC has some of the most stringent gun laws in the nation, along with those other slaughter houses Washington DC and Chicago IL.  

Yes banning guns really truly works.

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## Foghorn

And while were at it, lets get a few more experiments going since our main goal here is to eliminate death.

*Ban automobiles* -  They kill far more people than guns, more than twice as much.  So lets pick another city, say Atlanta, and ban all automobiles from the city and see how it goes.  We get the added benefits of lower pollution, plus an increase in ridership on public transportation.

*Ban Falls*  Make it illegal to use a ladder or climb any higher than 4 off the ground.  Falls kill far more people than guns, and banning climbing will save many lives.  Remember, our main goal here is to save lives, right?

*Blunt Objects*  We know from the numbers that blunt objects kill far more people than guns, so get rid of them completely.  Or at least make most everything out of soft plastic.  Yes, yes, I understand plastic comes from evil petroleum products, but we must make sacrifices.  The end justifies the means dont you know?

By banning all the above we can eliminate 54% of all deaths in America.  If we toss a gun ban into the mix we can tack on another 9% and get that much closer to Utopia.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> Not only Muslims are holy warriors. I'm a Crusader


Crusader Rabbit?

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## Trinnity

> Not only Muslims are holy warriors. I'm a Crusader


Are you Muslim, @Figaro?

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## JustPassinThru

> Two people were killed at a Home Depot in Manhattan NYC recently.  NYC has some of the most stringent gun laws in the nation, along with those other slaughter houses Washington DC and Chicago IL.  
> 
> Yes banning guns really truly works.


Australia's gun violence went off the scale after they banned guns.

How's THAT work, liberals?

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## Figaro

> Are you Muslim, @Figaro?


No, I`m not Muslim

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## Corruptbuddha

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...




So how many guns are in America?  Millions.  How many gun deaths occur each year?  606 in 2010.

Not including suicide and murder.

So, with around 300 MILLION guns in America...600 or so per year are involved in accidents.

How many folks are killed by heart disease each year?

You want to outlaw cheeseburgers?

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## Trinnity

> No, I`m not Muslim


I'll take your word for it.  

carry on............

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## Katzndogz

Liberals want to ban guns for one reason only.  It puts criminals at risk.   No matter what else they come up with the unadorned reason is an armed victim puts the assailants at risk.

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## DeadEye

Well, if guns need to ge abandon let's start first with the government. Disarm the government and see how that goes. If it works out then maybe you might have a point but as it stands now more people,"Idiots as you call them", die in automobile accidents than with gun violence. So why pick guns instead of autos?

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## EvilObamaClone

You guys do know that this is really the old protection racket don't you?

The liberals are basically saying that they wil hurt you if you have a firearm and don't get rid of it.

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## Corruptbuddha

> You guys do know that this is really the old protection racket don't you?
> 
> The liberals are basically saying that they wil hurt you if you have a firearm and don't get rid of it.



The moment your government says you can't have a gun....you go out and buy two.

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Victory (01-27-2015)

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## EvilObamaClone

> The moment your government says you can't have a gun....you go out and buy two.


And read up on Paladin press's books on improvised weapons.

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## DonGlock26

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


I guess we should disarm the military and the Secret Service that protects Obama. The risk is too high.

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## DonGlock26

> Why the fuck are you calling me a liberal? Liberals tend to be quite accepting of many things on the edges of society - drug use and abortion, homosexuality and incest (maybe soon). I`m not liberal, I`m just fuken hate idiots with guns. And have nothing  against an adequate people


Stop hating legal gun owners. I'll bet there are more car related deaths in countries with more cars. Do you want to ban cars?

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## Dan40

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


Of all the people that die EACH YEAR in the USA, 0.0054 die due to gun fire.  Almost ALL of them, INTENTIONAL.  More than 33% of those deaths are blacks intentionally killing other blacks.

Autos are involved in 0.0154 of the US deaths.  Why no outcry to ban autos?

Neither guns, nor autos kill people.  People kill people, by whatever means, intentionally or accidentally.

If ABORTIONS were part of the death statistics [they are NOT counted as deaths for political expediency], the abortions would be FORTY TWO PERCENT of the deaths. 0.423.  42.3% of US deaths are murdered babies, CELEBRATED by liberals while condemning gun deaths that are one half of one percent of US deaths and they TOO are mostly murders.

Do liberals have any sane thoughts?  Can liberals speak, or write without lying?  Can liberals even think without lying to themselves?

No to all 3.

Death is part of life.  Murder is murder, but still a part of life.

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DeadEye (01-27-2015)

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## Longshot

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates (threaten women) than to thwart crime (about halfway down this page)
> http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...use/index.html
> I declare a holy war started


Do you think that police officers should discontinue carrying firearms?

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## Figaro

> Stop hating legal gun owners. I'll bet there are more car related deaths in countries with more cars. Do you want to ban cars?


Whant to ban idiots and morons

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## squidward

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


what were the stats on gun crime in Cambodia ?

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## DeadEye

> Whant to ban idiots and morons


Stop talking about suicide and go see a shrink.

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Dan40 (01-27-2015)

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## Dan40

> Whant to ban idiots and morons


Yes, I'm for banning idiots and morons.  That would solve the "liberal problem."

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## Trinnity

*Ohio Concealed Carry Permit Holder Shoots, Kills Armed Robber - (December, 2014)

*A concealed carry permit holder shot and killed a 16-year-old teenager attempting an armed robbery outside a mall in Dayton, Ohio. According to the Associated Press, Jawaad Jabbar and his two friends went to the Dayton Mall for a shoe sale on Saturday morning. Sgt. Joe Phares told reporters that while details are still being investigated, the teenagers got there too late to buy the new Nike Air Jordans they wanted.

*The three juveniles then walked up to two adult men outside the mall and demanded their purchased merchandise. Jabbar pulled out a gun*, and one of the adult men  who happened to be a concealed carry permit holder  pulled out his concealed handgun and fired one shot at Jabbar. Jabbar was hit in the torso and died at the scene. The Dayton Daily News reports that the other two teenagers, ages 16 and 17, fled the scene but were later arrested. Both are currently being held in juvenile detention in Dayton.

*This was a random act of, `I want something that person has, and Im going to take it from him,* Phares told reporters. It didnt go down the way they thought it would. As the WLWT notes, the investigation remains ongoing. The concealed carry permit holder was questioned by police, but not arrested or charged. Formal charges have yet to be filed, but Phares said the two juveniles could end up being charged in the shooting death of Jabbar.



- See more at: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/....f4i4cHms.dpuf


Jawaad Jabbar had a prior criminal record. 
And there are millions more just like him.

What a stupid name.

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DeadEye (01-28-2015)

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## old wood

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


 Well...right ...wrong...in these days a lot of folks could care less about that.  There's  chronic assholes who have a FETISH about guns and an urge to bully and intimidate. There's paranoid sociopaths who should NEVER own weapons--but you can heard them into a dedicated cult. There's Gun Makers who love having a lobby . There's Fringe Neo-Fascists who think they can overthrow the USA's "gubbmint"....the old time NRA.. guys hunting deer,ducks or shooting at beer cans.. no longer have ANY say.

I ENJOY target shooting. I decided awhile back that I was TOO able to shoot some jackass that "ought to be shot"...so.. I got rid of guns.  In the past 50 yrs... I actually NEVER "needed" a gun.   Whatever.  I have no  problem with RATIONAL people having a gun or two.  I know damn well the NOISE about guns  is the NUTCASE types... a minority who has FANTASIES that are sociopathic..and dangerous.  Meanwhile.. Kids get killed cause paranoid daddy leaves a loaded gun accessable. Folks get depressed and drunk and kill themselves... and maybe the wife and kids too.

So... the lunatic fringe..the chronic criminals/predators can BUY..generate PROFIT...We have to endure being the most Trigger Happy "Civilized" country.

Just WATCH the inevitable CRAP sure to be on this thread.   The folks making the biggest fuss...in the process PROVE that they are all fucked up..delusional...paranoid.  You will NOT see a post from some guy who goes Duck Hunting twice a year..or a farmer with a .22 keeping the chickens safe.  The NOISE is about freaks who get a boner thinking about shooting their fellow Americans...and THIS NRA panders to them.. trys to AGITATE them.

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DeadEye (01-28-2015)

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## old wood

> *Ohio Concealed Carry Permit Holder Shoots, Kills Armed Robber - (December, 2014)
> 
> *A concealed carry permit holder shot and killed a 16-year-old teenager attempting an armed robbery outside a mall in Dayton, Ohio. According to the Associated Press, Jawaad Jabbar and his two friends went to the Dayton Mall for a shoe sale on Saturday morning. Sgt. Joe Phares told reporters that while details are still being investigated, the teenagers got there too late to buy the new Nike Air Jordans they wanted.
> 
> *The three juveniles then walked up to two adult men outside the mall and demanded their purchased merchandise. Jabbar pulled out a gun*, and one of the adult men — who happened to be a concealed carry permit holder — pulled out his concealed handgun and fired one shot at Jabbar. Jabbar was hit in the torso and died at the scene. The Dayton Daily News reports that the other two teenagers, ages 16 and 17, fled the scene but were later arrested. Both are currently being held in juvenile detention in Dayton.
> 
> *“This was a random act of, `I want something that person has, and I’m going to take it from him,”* Phares told reporters. “It didn’t go down the way they thought it would.” As the WLWT notes, the investigation remains ongoing. The concealed carry permit holder was questioned by police, but not arrested or charged. Formal charges have yet to be filed, but Phares said the two juveniles could end up being charged in the shooting death of Jabbar.
> 
> 
> ...


 WHATEVER............Ohio and every other State allows qualified people to have Conceal Carry...and the SCOTUS ruled that a State or City  has to allow that--WITHIN reasonable limits.  With damn near no Mental Health System and mostly loose gun laws...YOU...ME...ANYONE... is always a potential target.  I cherish my "right" to NOT get shot.

IMHO...an AR-15 or AK-47 ...is not a Conceal Cary..  BAD PEOPLE.. get those.. go to a gun show,get on line... turn it into a full auto because they are all fucked up and short fuse.   Most of us....spending $2000 on an AR-15, a bunch of Mags, 500 rounds of AMMO......there's no LEGIT point to it.   That's a pattern where you got a wannabe terrorist/traitor or a schizo Adam Lanza wannabe...or a Thug/bully who  gets off scaring people.  

The 2nd Amendment.... in REALITY...is no blank check to enable fuckups to stockpile guns and go bonkers.

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## Dan40

> WHATEVER............Ohio and every other State allows qualified people to have Conceal Carry...and the SCOTUS ruled that a State or City  has to allow that--WITHIN reasonable limits.  With damn near no Mental Health System and mostly loose gun laws...YOU...ME...ANYONE... is always a potential target.  I cherish my "right" to NOT get shot.
> 
> IMHO...an AR-15 or AK-47 ...is not a Conceal Cary..  BAD PEOPLE.. get those.. go to a gun show,get on line... turn it into a full auto because they are all fucked up and short fuse.   Most of us....spending $2000 on an AR-15, a bunch of Mags, 500 rounds of AMMO......there's no LEGIT point to it.   That's a pattern where you got a wannabe terrorist/traitor or a schizo Adam Lanza wannabe...or a Thug/bully who  gets off scaring people.  
> 
> The 2nd Amendment.... in REALITY...is no blank check to enable fuckups to stockpile guns and go bonkers.


All of your rant about automatic rifles is about ILLEGAL weapons.  Outlawing guns for law abiding citizens won't change anything about illegal weapons.

It is an old cliche, but will always be true.

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."

Of the 4000 blacks gunned down by other blacks, only a miniscule number were done with legally obtained guns.

And your rant about AR-15 and AK-47.  Both are rifles.  Last year 323 people were killed by rifles of all types. FBI table 43a.  NOT a dozen of those rifles were actually fully automatic [illegal] rifles.

Of US deaths, that equals 0.000124 percent.

0.00069% of US deaths were caused by hands or feet.  Nearly 6 times more deaths using just body parts.

Where is your rant against feet?  Against fists?

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DeadEye (01-28-2015),Victory (01-27-2015)

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## Victory

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


What is it about the hundreds, even thousands, of replies to you that have been pro-gun related that has not convinced you?

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## Rutabaga

figero,figero, fiGARo,,,,

have you finished your homework?

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## Victory

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


You sound very educated.  Tell me, what do you think of this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Control-Exposi...2408684&sr=1-1

What?  Haven't read it yet?  Well then, read it.  Then let's discuss.

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## Victory

Again, why should I have my guns taken away for somebody else's crime?

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## squidward

> In the past 50 yrs... I actually NEVER "needed" a gun.   Whatever.


that has zero predictive probability for future events. 





> The NOISE is about freaks who get a boner thinking about shooting their fellow Americans..


fellow americans who just happen to be trying to harm them.

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DeadEye (01-28-2015)

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## FirstGenCanadian

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...


As I have said before, if the world out here is too dangerous for the Liberals, then your utopia is at a mental institution.  No one has guns, you're all special, and if you want to misbehave, they will pump you full of government supported pharmaceuticals, so you will perceive your happy world where everyone gets along in rose coloured glasses, and sing kumbaya, to your higher power.

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DeadEye (01-28-2015),Katzndogz (01-28-2015)

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## Katzndogz

Gosh.  Not one of my guns was ever used to intimidate me.

Guns used as some sort of war on women nonsense is a lie.  It's the 21st century now.  The little lady has her own guns.

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DeadEye (01-28-2015)

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## Victory

> Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates (threaten women) than to thwart crime


And so your solution is to disarm women.  Brilliant.   :Moron:  :Thinking:  :Geez:

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## teeceetx

> The NRA is wrong: Owning a gun is far more likely to harm you than protect you.
> 
> 
> http://www.slate.com/articles/health...s_suicide.html
> 
> 
> 
> It seems so obvious: more guns, more bullets flying, more death.
> It seems to me the reluctance of some Americans to accept the facts on guns-and-death data is the same kind of intellectual vapor lock that makes them buy lottery tickets.
> ...



Take a look at the facts:
https://www.billwhittle.com/firewall/number-one-bullet

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Dan40 (01-28-2015),DeadEye (01-28-2015)

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