# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Bringing Back Firing Squads?

## Matt

Utah Republican Paul Ray wants to bring back Fire Squads to the state as a the main choice for execution. Granted before I read the article I thought to myself that it would never fly. However the reasoning he puts forward is sound and I find myself for it. There's also precedent for it as the state of Utah last executed a man by Firing Squad in 2010 before retiring the practice. While medications are iffy (as seen before with the man who didn't die after his injection...for those of you who don't know he died 30 minutes later of a very painful heart attack) bullets are a sure thing. 5 officers shooting at once at the heart means that there is no real margin for error because it's going to get the job done; instantly, painlessly, and I agree with his assertion more humanely. Bullets are also cheaper and can speed up the process. What do you think? Read the article first before you answer because he's right....until you actually think about it...it sounds more draconian than it actually is. I think it's better.

Other states have flirted with the idea this year as well. Missouri State Representative Rick Brattin (R) as of January 2014 was/is proposing legislation that would allow death row inmates to choose a firing squad as their means of execution. 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...squad/9211225/

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## JustPassinThru

As long as it's lethal; universal; and swiftly applied... I'm in favor of capital punishment.

I don't care how.  Bullet to the head; rope around the neck; chipper from Sunbelt Rentals.  I don't GAS what or how or how comfy...although extra pain is a plus.

Firing squad is pretty-good-fine.

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usfan (05-22-2014)

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## Rudy2D

> . . ; chipper from Sunbelt Rentals.  I don't GAS what or how or how comfy...although extra pain is a plus.


Chipper?  That's a bit over-the-top, Uday--even for _you_.

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## patrickt

Back in the day, the condemned killer in Utah got to pick between hanging and a firing squad. I think giving prisoners the options is great. If a prisoner preferred suicide I'd go along with that, too. I've never understood people running in and saving a condemned prisoner who is hanging himself. It's rather like the police shooting a guy who is threatening to shoot himself.

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## Old Ridge Runner

I think that he problem with the Oklahoma case was one, the drug cocktail and two, the collapse of Lockett's vein.  The first one is easy to fix, give the inmate a large dose of a drug to put him to sleep and than flood his system with it so he dies.  The second part is iffy, there is no way to foresee that happening.  I could never understand why they have to administer a drug to put him to sleep and than use another one to stop the inmate's heart, when there are many drug out there that will do both jobs quickly.  What I don't like is these scum sit on death row 15 to 20 years going through appeal after appeal tieing up the court system.  If i had my way t would be one appeal after being convicted and if that is turned down, you are off to become a Yo Yo or what ever form of punishment will send you to the afterlife.

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usfan (05-22-2014)

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## DonGlock26

Why not? It's cheap and effective. The lethal injection method has been interfered with by anti-DP activists making a stink with drug companies, so states have had to use different drugs and the results have been worse than the original mix. Go back to bullets. Let the murderers dread the DP. 

If you have the stomach for it, you can watch Nazi spies being executed with .30-06 rounds. No complaints from them. No stories on how they suffered for 40 minutes.

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## catfish

If you turn the convicted to where his back is to the firing squad....then train 5 fix mounted, laser targeted .22 mags at the base of the medulla and fire them simultaneously by a remote trigger..I guarantee you the convicted would be in  the presence of Jesus before his body hits the ground.

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## Calypso Jones

> Chipper?  That's a bit over-the-top, Uday--even for _you_.


I can't imagine what kind of person it would take to put another live human being into a chipper.   They've got to be insane.

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## JustPassinThru

> I can't imagine what kind of person it would take to put another live human being into a chipper.   They've got to be insane.


Let's examine this.

I'm the poor sod who had to take such a job.  Chipper is there and idling.

Out comes the condemned.  Convicted of kidnapping, repeatedly raping, then poisoning a twelve-year-old girl while she begged for life...documented by a witness.

DNA testing to confirm it was his schlong which tupped the little girl.

AM I gonna be shy about feeding this human dross into the maw of that chipper?  HELL NO.  I'll consider it a public service.

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## Max Rockatansky

> If you have the stomach for it, you can watch Nazi spies being executed with .30-06 rounds. No complaints from them. No stories on how they suffered for 40 minutes.


Most of those spies didn't have seven holes in them.  Either half of the Army's soldiers can't shoot worth a shit or they deliberately missed.

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## JustPassinThru

One or more of the shooters' rifles would have been loaded with blanks.  To allow participants' "reasonable doubt" in whether they participated in the killing.

Yeah, I know, bullshit.  But that's how human minds work, often times.

Also, surely some shooters deliberately mis-aimed.  Some of them may have had the shakes.

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## Max Rockatansky

Which is why, if you have to die by firing squad, make sure that squad is manned by Marines.

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## DonGlock26

> Most of those spies didn't have seven holes in them.  Either half of the Army's soldiers can't shoot worth a shit or they deliberately missed.


Hahahahah!!!  You know this how?





> Which is why, if you have to die by firing squad, make sure that squad is manned by Marines.





> 




Because they shoot at 20' better than anyone else?

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## Max Rockatansky

> Hahahahah!!!  You know this how?


By the bullets striking the berm wide of the mark.  Several strikes can be seen behind the target.  While it's possible a 30-06 round would go through a body and still have enough force to make a good dent in the hill, a round hitting dead center  would hit the pole.  I doubt even a 30-06 round could penetrate both and make a significant impact on the berm.  Regardless, the strikes wide of the mark seem to indicate misses.

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## Archer

> As long as it's lethal; universal; and swiftly applied... I'm in favor of capital punishment.
> 
> I don't care how.  Bullet to the head; rope around the neck; chipper from Sunbelt Rentals.  I don't GAS what or how or how comfy...although extra pain is a plus.
> 
> Firing squad is pretty-good-fine.


Cut their heads off in public! How many heads with one blade?

And I say make the fucking bastards suffer! They did not consider who they were killing, they did not consider the left behind children and families... Put the motherfuckers in an arena and let them fight to the death. Charge admission! 

Cruel and unusual should fit the crime. But there again I also believe the bar needs to be raised as it relates to a conviction.

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## DonGlock26

> By the bullets striking the berm wide of the mark.  Several strikes can be seen behind the target.  While it's possible a 30-06 round would go through a body and still have enough force to make a good dent in the hill, a round hitting dead center  would hit the pole.  I doubt even a 30-06 round could penetrate both and make a significant impact on the berm.  Regardless, the strikes wide of the mark seem to indicate misses.


@Max Rockatansky

 The condemned is standing at a fixed point. The nine man firing squad is standing in a long line. They are shooting from different locations from each other and at different angles. The "misses", that you are seeing, are the rounds from the men on the extreme ends of the firing line. Ask an eight grade geometry teacher for help, if you still can't grasp why you are wrong. 

Now, if you have any honor whatsoever as a Marine, you'll apologize here to the US Army WWII vets that you have just maligned.

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## Max Rockatansky

> @Max Rockatansky
> 
>  The condemned is standing at a fixed point. The nine man firing squad is standing in a long line. They are shooting from different locations from each other and at different angles. The "misses", that you are seeing, are the rounds from the men on the extreme ends of the firing line.


I thought about that, but some of the hits are still too wide to account for the parallax angles.

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## Calypso Jones

> Let's examine this.
> 
> I'm the poor sod who had to take such a job.  Chipper is there and idling.
> 
> Out comes the condemned.  Convicted of kidnapping, repeatedly raping, then poisoning a twelve-year-old girl while she begged for life...documented by a witness.
> 
> DNA testing to confirm it was his schlong which tupped the little girl.
> 
> AM I gonna be shy about feeding this human dross into the maw of that chipper?  HELL NO.  I'll consider it a public service.


okay.  I could go along with that but Uday and Cusay were feeding their opposition into chippers which meant all these people did was to Cross THEM.

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## DonGlock26

> I thought about that, but some of the hits are still too wide to account for the parallax angles.


Hahahahahah!!!!!  Shame on you.

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## Calypso Jones

isn't that pretty common?   I understand that WW1 or II combatants...our side, were poor shots.  meaning they didn't make contact with the target.   Not necessarily because they were bad shot....but rather, the aversion to killing another human.  Some aversion therapy in basic took care of that.

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## Max Rockatansky

> isn't that pretty common?   I understand that WW1 or II combatants...our side, were poor shots.  meaning they didn't make contact with the target.   Not necessarily because they were bad shot....but rather, *the aversion to killing another human*.  Some aversion therapy in basic took care of that.


Especially in a cold blooded situation of an execution.  It's one thing to shoot at a person shooting at you, but some dumb ass tied to a pole?  Christians and Jews might have a problem balancing that against the Ten Commandments.

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## Archer

> Especially in a cold blooded situation of an execution.  It's one thing to shoot at a person shooting at you, but some dumb ass tied to a pole?  Christians and Jews might have a problem balancing that against the Ten Commandments.


Christians mainly. Jews understand it was talking about murder and not killing... Why? God commanded killing. To kill for a just cause or reason is not a sin.

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catfish (05-19-2014)

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## Max Rockatansky

> Christians mainly. Jews understand it was talking about murder and not killing... Why? God commanded killing. To kill for a just cause or reason is not a sin.


Being a spy wasn't mentioned in the Bible as an executable offense.

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## Archer

> Being a spy wasn't mentioned in the Bible as an executable offense.


Laws of God, laws of man and rules of war.

Many time God ordered scorched earth! Kill them all

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## DonGlock26

> isn't that pretty common?   I understand that WW1 or II combatants...our side, were poor shots.  meaning they didn't make contact with the target.   Not necessarily because they were bad shot....but rather, the aversion to killing another human.  Some aversion therapy in basic took care of that.


You are probably speaking about the widely-repeated S.L.A. Marshall "study", which has been discredited:




> Marshall's work on infantry combat effectiveness in World War II, titled _Men Against Fire, is his best-known and most controversial work. In the book, Marshall claimed that of the World War II U.S. troops in actual combat, 75% never fired at the enemy for the purpose of killing, even though they were engaged in combat and under direct threat. Marshall argued that the Army should devote significant training resources to increasing the percentage of soldiers willing to engage the enemy with direct fire.
> _
> *Controversy after death[edit]*
> 
> Some veterans and historians have cast doubt on Marshall's research methodology.[13] Professor Roger J. Spiller (Deputy Director of the Combat Studies Institute, US Army Command and General Staff College) demonstrated in his 1988 article, "S.L.A. Marshall and the Ratio of Fire" (_RUSI Journal_, Winter 1988, pages 63–71), that Marshall had not actually conducted the research upon which he based his ratio-of-fire theory. "The 'systematic collection of data' appears to have been an invention."[14] This revelation called into question the authenticity of some of Marshall's other books, and lent academic weight to doubts about his integrity that had been raised in military circles even decades earlier.[15]
> In his 1989 memoir, _About Face_, Hackworth described his initial elation at an assignment with a man he idolized, and how that elation turned to disillusionment after seeing Marshall's character and methods firsthand. Hackworth described Marshall as a "voyeur warrior," for whom "the truth never got in the way of a good story," and went so far as to say, "Veterans of many of the actions he 'documented' in his books have complained bitterly over the years of his inaccuracy or blatant bias".[16]
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.L.A._Marshall



The truth is that only a percentage of soldiers in an army actually do the bulk of the fighting. We call those soldiers- the combat arms- i.e. infantry, armor, artillery. 

If they aren't shooting, they are going to die. If you listen to the Band of Brothers interviews, you do not hear about people not fighting generally. They had to fight to hold off frequent German infantry assaults. Same goes with resisting Japanese mass infantry assaults in the Pacific and Chinese human wave attacks in Korea. My army buddy's dad had the Chi-Com bullet holes to prove he was in combat and he never talked about shirkers. Never.

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## DonGlock26

> Being a spy wasn't mentioned in the Bible as an executable offense.


The Hebrews were commanded to kill all of the enemy- men, women, and children in the O.T.

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## Max Rockatansky

> The Hebrews were commanded to kill all of the enemy- men, women, and children in the O.T.


But it's not in the Commandments.  The OT commands killing adulterers.  If this were held true, then a lot of Washington politicians should become objects of target practice for the US Army.  Lord knows they need the practice.

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## DonGlock26

> But it's not in the Commandments.  The OT commands killing adulterers.  If this were held true, then a lot of Washington politicians should become objects of target practice for the US Army.  Lord knows they need the practice.


And??

Stop disgracing the Marine Corps with your silly behavior.

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## Max Rockatansky

> And??
> 
> Stop disgracing the Marine Corps with your silly behavior.


Man up and take some shooting lessons for God's sake, REMF!

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## catfish

> But it's not in the Commandments.  The OT commands killing adulterers.  If this were held true, then a lot of Washington politicians should become objects of target practice for the US Army.  Lord knows they need the practice.


I'd be willing to wager we would lose 85% of the population if it were practiced today

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## Max Rockatansky

> I'd be willing to wager we would lose 85% of the population if it were practiced today


A great way to solve the population problem and the Washington beltway bandit problem all at once!

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## DonGlock26

> Man up and take some shooting lessons for God's sake, REMF!


Honor- Marines and soldiers have it. They respect vets- especially WWII vets. Your attack on WWII vets is lacking in Marine or Army honor.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Honor- Marines and soldiers have it. They respect vets- especially WWII vets. Your attack on WWII vets is lacking in Marine or Army honor.


You trumping up lies and false charges dishonors all who fought and died for our country.  You need to get a grip on yourself before you look like a complete fucking lunatic.

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## DonGlock26

> You trumping up lies and false charges dishonors all who fought and died for our country.  You need to get a grip on yourself before you look like a complete fucking lunatic.


Men like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had honor. They would NEVER disrespect WWII vets as you have done. It is inconceivable for men of honor to do what you have done.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Men like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had honor. They would NEVER disrespect WWII vets as you have done. It is inconceivable for men of honor to do what you have done.


Your pursuit of me is interesting.  Just need someone to hate or are you jealous?  Life not exciting enough so you need to pick fights with younger, better-looking, successful and much more intelligent men to make yourself feel alive? 

I, too, believe Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had honor, but I'd never be so foolish and presumptuous to say definitively what they would think in a hypothetical situation such as an event over 120 years after their demise.   You, however, are free to dive headfirst into whatever delusions and fantastical accusations you like since many people much braver and more honorable than you died to give you that freedom.

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## DonGlock26

> Your pursuit of me is interesting.  Just need someone to hate or are you jealous?  Life not exciting enough so you need to pick fights with younger, better-looking, successful and much more intelligent men to make yourself feel alive? 
> 
> I, too, believe Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had honor, but I'd never be so foolish and presumptuous to say definitively what they would think in a hypothetical situation such as an event over 120 years after their demise.   You, however, are free to dive headfirst into whatever delusions and fantastical accusations you like since many people much braver and more honorable than you died to give you that freedom.


Honor is earned and men of honor cannot be injured by the rantings of an internet screen-name. That said, pointing out the lack of honor in a person criticizing WWII vets tasked with the difficult duty of executing Nazi spies is perfectly acceptable and the right thing to do. You have done a disservice to the USMC with your rantings. You should apologize to your Marine Corps brothers first and then go down to the VFW hall and apologize to them.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Honor is earned


It's good you know that much.  The next step is for us to figure out how you can earn some.  What is obvious from the start is that you standing on the dead bodies of our Founding Fathers with the unmitigated gall of telling others what they would do in a hypothetical situation is dishonorable.  You lose points for that one, pal:




> Men like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington had honor. They would NEVER disrespect WWII vets as you have done.


Honorable people never, ever put the words in the mouths of dead heroes.

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## DonGlock26

> It's good you know that much.  The next step is for us to figure out how you can earn some.  What is obvious from the start is that you standing on the dead bodies of our Founding Fathers with the unmitigated gall of telling others what they would do in a hypothetical situation is dishonorable.  You lose points for that one, pal:
> 
> 
> 
> Honorable people never, ever put the words in the mouths of dead heroes.


Gratefully, you are in a tiny minority of Marines who have attempted to sully the image of the Corps for selfish personal reasons with actions lacking in honor.

My old boss was a WWII Army vet shot in the stomach by a Imperial Japanese soldier on Saipan. He was a combat engineer attached to a Marine assault element. 
I'm sure the Marines considered him a comrade at arms. They all had honor in common.

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## Max Rockatansky

None of your false accusations and exaggerations will save you from standing on the graves of our Founding Fathers putting words in their mouths.  You should be ashamed, but doubt you can even see it.

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## DonGlock26

> None of your false accusations


You did what you did. You falsely accused WWII Vets of poor marksmanship and dereliction of duty. You made tried to involve the USMC in your petty antics. That is dishonorable for a Marine.


Would you call this soldier a poor shot too?




> *John R. McKinney*
> 
> Date of birth: February 26, 1921
> Date of death: April 4, 1997
> Burial location: Sylvania, Georgia
> Place of Birth: Georgia, Woodcliff
> Home of record: Woodcliff Georgia
> 
> 
> ...

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## Max Rockatansky

> You did what you did. You falsely accused WWII Vets of poor marksmanship and dereliction of duty.


I accused some of the firing squad members of either being poor shots or deliberately missing due to the evidence.   Based on the evidence, you stood on the graves of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and had the gall to speak for them.  

Who is the low-life douchebag here?  The one who made a judgment based on visual evidence or the one spending two days telling lies, demeaning our Founding Fathers and accusing vets of being dishonorable for making a judgment based on evidence?

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## DonGlock26

> I accused some of the firing squad members of either being poor shots or deliberately missing due to the evidence.


Shame on you. 

You know you are the answer to your question.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Shame on you. 
> 
> You know you are the answer to your question.


One of the most degenerate, disgusting and dishonorable people I know stands on the dead bodies of heroes like our founders and puts words in their dead mouths.   

You should be ashamed, Don, but since you are unrepentant, there is nothing redeeming about you.

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## DonGlock26

> One of the most degenerate, disgusting and dishonorable people I know stands on the dead bodies of heroes like our founders and puts words in their dead mouths.   
> 
> You should be ashamed, Don, but since you are unrepentant, there is nothing redeeming about you.



This is one place where honor still resides. You won't hear people disparaging WWII vets on that hallowed ground. 






Reflect and face what you have done here, Max.

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## Max Rockatansky

> This is one place where honor still resides. You won't hear people disparaging WWII vets on that hallowed ground.


You should go there and reflect on what that means.  Maybe you'll stop standing on the dead bodies of heroes to push your personal agendas for self-serving gratification.

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## Calypso Jones

> You should go there and reflect on what that means.  Maybe you'll stop standing on the dead bodies of heroes to push your personal agendas for self-serving gratification.



oh.  so now mentioning our heroes means that one is standing on the dead bodies of our military.    That is so leftist.   You should have shame.




perhaps the silence should be yours, poster,  for that ill-advised statement.

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DonGlock26 (05-21-2014)

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## Max Rockatansky

> oh.  so now mentioning our heroes means that one is standing on the dead bodies of our military.    That is so leftist.   You should have shame.


Careful, Calypso.  Your bias is showing since I know you know how to read.  If you'd bothered to follow the thread, you'd know more.

From your comments, can everyone assume you support putting words in the mouths of our Founding Fathers as long as it supports your personal agenda?  Is this correct about you @Calypso Jones?   It is for Don.

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## DonGlock26

> You should go there and reflect on what that means.  Maybe you'll stop standing on the dead bodies of heroes to push your personal agendas for self-serving gratification.


I know what it means. We own an immense debt to men of honor including WWII vets from all the branches of the service. People with honor know this quite well.

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## Max Rockatansky

> I know what it means.


Then start acting like it and stop putting words in their mouths.

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## DonGlock26

> Then start acting like it and stop putting words in their mouths.


When your sense of honor finally overrides your bruised ego, you come back to this thread and take back your criticism of the WWII vets.

How long that takes is up to you, your wounded ego, and any sense of honor left in you. You obviously have issues to attack WWII ETO vets, and I'm rooting for the sense of honor.

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## Max Rockatansky

> I'm rooting for the sense of honor.


Then why do you stand on the dead and put words in their mouths?  Your own ego is out of control and in dire need of redemption for committing such an immoral act.  You should be ashamed of yourself but your ego is such that you don't even think you did anything wrong.

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## DonGlock26

> Then why do you stand on the dead and put words in their mouths?  Your own ego is out of control and in dire need of redemption for committing such an immoral act.  You should be ashamed of yourself but your ego is such that you don't even think you did anything wrong.


Max, find your honor. Then, you will understanding what you did.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Max, find your honor. Then, you will understanding what you did.


My honor is just fine, Don.  Since you're the one making all the fuss and also the one dishonoring our Founders by having the gall to put words in their mouths, I suggest you pull your head out of wherever it is and start looking for your own honor since you've chosen to replace your honor with ego.

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## DonGlock26

> My honor is just fine, Don.  Since you're the one making all the fuss and also the one dishonoring our Founders by having the gall to put words in their mouths, I suggest you pull your head out of wherever it is and start looking for your own honor since you've chosen to replace your honor with ego.


There is no honor in maligning WWII ETO vets. None. All your whining won't change that. A retraction and apology to them would be a start to regaining your honor.

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## Max Rockatansky

> There is no honor in maligning WWII ETO vets.


Agreed and I didn't do that.  OTOH, you did stand on the graves of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington declaring that you were fit to speak for them.  That is dishonorable and dishonest conduct.  Conduct you've have repeated chances to apologize for but prefer to press your personal obsession with "winning" to satisfy your ego.

Nice job proving your put ego before truth, honor and true American heroes.  Do you drink tiger blood?

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## DonGlock26

> Agreed


Good, now go forth and restore your honor somehow. Volunteer at a VA hospital and talk to the ETO Army vets about fighting Nazis with their Garands.

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