# Stuff and Things > HISTORY, veterans & science >  Free Healthcare for All

## ppc

Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.

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## nonsqtr

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


I am not responsible for your medical condition.

Pay for your own healthcare. And I'll pay for mine. Problem solved.

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Abbey (06-21-2020),Big Bird (07-02-2020),Brat (06-20-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),NORAD (06-20-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020),teeceetx (06-20-2020)

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## HawkTheSlayer

There is no such thing as free health care. Nothing is free. Especially government financed health care awash with poor service, long waiting periods, red tape, fraud, and  lack of physician choice.

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Brat (06-20-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),NORAD (06-20-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020),teeceetx (06-20-2020)

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## Quark

Seems our new poster doesn't understand economics.

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Brat (06-20-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),NORAD (06-20-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020),teeceetx (06-20-2020)

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## teeceetx

> Seems our new poster doesn't understand economics.


Seems our new poster doesn't understand Communism....

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Brat (06-20-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020)

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## MedicineBow

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


How do you plan to get doctors,  nurses and healthcare providers to do this for free?

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Brat (06-20-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),NORAD (06-20-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## Physics Hunter

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


What an eloquent and well thought post.  You covered all the statistics and costs for an entire nation of 330M people factoring in GDP and our existing debt which is equal to one GDP.

You described how there have to be limits in such a system, and we all have to agree to quit bitchin' when we reach those limits...
Try to find dental work in December in the Brit NHS...

This ain't the Tee-ball league and there are no ribbons for posting like a 4 year old.

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (06-20-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),NORAD (06-20-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## Old Tex

A country must be great when it has people dumb enough to believe in free medical care & yet they survive.

I lived in TWO of those countries with FREE medical care. Nope they never got a bill specifically for medical so stupid people would say that it's free. But in both of those countries people paid TAXES (but they were taxes, not medical bills) that lowered their standards of living down to our POOR PEOPLE. A quick search will show that their taxes are high but not crazy high, that's a quick search. A more detailed search would show how they are raped with taxes every which way but their medical care is "FREE" right? 

Want to buy a car, pay 10% MORE for it. Want to drive it, (when I was there) pay over $8 for LESS than a gallon of gas when our gas was selling for less than $2 per full gallon. One country taxed the number of closets you had in your house. Another country taxed the number of windows you had in your house. Both tax the shit out of new construction of any building. And BOTH countries had a thriving black market system to avoid paying taxes. 

But medical care was free right? Well you could say the same about our country, free medical care IF you go out & pay for medical insurance with 30 or more percent of your total income every month for the rest of your life. 

*Only stupid people believe in FREE healthcare. Only stupid people believe that it will be cheaper when the government gets involved.*

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Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## St James

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


TANSTAAFL

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Brat (06-20-2020)

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## ruthless terrier

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


*money is a necessity .. I want free money.*

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Big Bird (07-02-2020),Brat (06-22-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Old Ridge Runner (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## Rutabaga

bernie is old and retarded...

biden doesn't remember that bernie's old and retarded....


oac doesn't know what's in her sink nor that biden doesn't remember that bernie's old and retarded...

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Brat (06-20-2020),Hillofbeans (06-22-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## wbslws

Anyone who wants free healthcare should suffer under the VA for a couple of years.  Then they would understand what free healthcare is about.    

I am so glad I turned 65 and got medicare and don't have to go back there.

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Brat (06-20-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Hillofbeans (06-22-2020),Kodiak (06-20-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020),Yossarian (06-24-2020)

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## teeceetx

> Healthcare is a necessity and in a time of need, should never be something to be worried about. End privatized health care plans.


You DO realize there is no such thing as FREE?  The productive members of society will at some point refuse to continue to play for slackers, and that's when government will require everyone to contribute.  No job?  The government will assign you one, and assign your level of pay.  Can't afford a home?  The government will assign you an apartment and set your rent (which you will pay for with your government mandated job).  All the while, with dwindling financial resources, the level of care will drop until the lowest common denominator is reached.  THEN everyone will be subject to the same pathetic level of care.  Oh, and you will see food become scarce, as store shelves will often be empty.  But there WILL be plenty for the governing elite.  THEN see how you like your government care.

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Brat (06-20-2020),Quark (06-20-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## Brat

GTFO troll.

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Abbey (06-21-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),NORAD (06-22-2020),St James (06-20-2020)

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## Abbey

They're  coming  out of the woodwork. 

 Like  roaches.

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Brat (06-21-2020),Neo (07-03-2020),NORAD (06-22-2020)

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## Yossarian

I am an avowed capitalist. I understand that no healthcare is free. Simultaneously I understand that a healthy America is a strong and productive America. I also mistrust all politicians. My older son was a US Army doctor who served two tours in Iraq, two in Afghanistan. Today he runs a trauma team at NY Cornell Columbian Presbyterian Hospital on York Avenue and 68th Street, one of NYC's best hospitals. I have two nieces who work at the same hospital as nurse practitioners. Both my older sisters are retired registered nurses. All four of my adult children work in medical fields, as do three of their spouses. 

I have survived a mangled leg from my service in SE Asia, as well as destruction of my left shoulder. I have an internal prosthetic left shoulder. I was sent home and told I would never walk again. 18 months later I was running 10 miles daily, not quickly, and I passed the physical for the NYPD. I had studied police work at John Jay College and after two years enlisted, after OCS I was assigned a 2nd lieutenancy as an MP. While I was recovering from my SE Asia experiences and waiting for enrollment in the NY Police Academy, I finished college at a NYS public college in northern NY. Because of my military police experience and education I was inducted as a gold shield detective in the NYPD. I was shot in the same leg on the job 15 years later, ending my police career. I recovered and went into private business as an entrepreneur, successfully creating a number of different but related businesses before retiring 3 years ago. I had my first heart attack at 41. I have had three more. I've had cancerous tumors removed 4 times. I had my third pacemaker/defibrillator device installed last year, and I am in an experimental program for my own stem cell culturing for heart tissue to repair my heart. My first wife passed from Leukemia. I believe I am well acquainted with the best American medical care has to offer. I am 71 years old and active.

I firmly believe American healthcare is among the world's best and most advanced, but the return for most Americans, considering the costs is abysmal. I see the two greatest obstacles to better healthcare in the US as the insurers as middlemen, and remuneration of medical arts practitioners based on procedures. There is no vested interest on the part of either for prevention of illness. There is some lip service, but that is where it ends.

We do need a universal healthcare system, a revolutionary alteration in the landscape of medical care from prenatal care to the grave, oriented around preventive health care instead of procedural healthcare. Take a step back from the politics, and realize this is not a proposal for a communist or socialist system, but one designed to make for a healthier America. It means learning much more about nutrition and how nutrition effects us all, as unique individuals. It means emphasizing physical activity in our school systems. Telling children to sit still and be quiet is country to their natural desire to run and be active. Such should be encouraged, not stifled. Teaching children to enjoy physical activity can last a lifetime and prevent the illnesses afforded the sedentary. Remuneration of medical arts practitioners for keeping people healthy must become the primary function, not that procedural medical arts are to be ignored, but their need can be prevented and diminished if prevention takes precedence. Combined with the elimination of both managerial costs from insurers and their profit taking, can drastically reduce the costs. I am not saying government is the answer. No politician has ever cured anything. I am saying we need to devise something new, a health care system different than any that exists today. Americans deserve better. It won't be simple, it won't be easy, but we are a can do nation. There is no limit on what we can accomplish as a nation. It will not happen overnight, it will take time, and there will be many mistakes made during the process. We learn from our mistakes, survive and improve upon them. 

Do not jump to conclusions. Give it some thought. We deserve better, our children deserve better, and their children deserve better for a better, stronger, healthier America.

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blazebot7000 (07-02-2020),nonsqtr (06-22-2020)

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## NORAD

> I am an avowed capitalist.


tl;dr

don't believe

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Brat (06-22-2020)

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## NORAD

> GTFO troll.


I'm losing track of the trolls!

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Brat (06-22-2020),East of the Beast (06-22-2020),Neo (07-03-2020)

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## Rutabaga

everybody would love "free" healthcare...the best known to man at zero cost...whats not to like?


"free" health ins. the problem...

if its "free" it has no value...

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Brat (06-22-2020),NORAD (06-22-2020)

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## East of the Beast

Oh my it's a coordinated troll attack by antifa lachey's.....we are doomed!

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Brat (06-22-2020),nonsqtr (06-22-2020)

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## Yossarian

> tl;dr
> 
> don't believe


Of course not. But you don't know. Sleep on it. These days I use money to make more money. Not a day passes when I don't make more money and I don't work more than an hour a day, if that. It is just a game to keep me busy. I don't need any more money than I already have. The only items I intend to buy during the next month or so for myself other than food, is some new underwear. First I must throwaway what is worn, to make room in the draws for more drawers.

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## nonsqtr

> Of course not. But you don't know. Sleep on it. These days I use money to make more money. Not a day passes when I don't make more money and I don't work more than an hour a day, if that. It is just a game to keep me busy. I don't need any more money than I already have. The only items I intend to buy during the next month or so for myself other than food, is some new underwear. First I must throwaway what is worn, to make room in the draws for more drawers.


Guitars! You need more guitars! (I mean, we "always" need more guitars, right?)

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## Yossarian

> Guitars! You need more guitars! (I mean, we "always" need more guitars, right?)


Need and desire are two very different concepts. I pity those who enjoy no passions in their lives. Going through the motions of living without living.

You'll have to find something else if you think this pitiful, lame display of child like behavior busts my chops.

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## blazebot7000

@Yossarian - I absolutely agree that we need to reform our current healthcare system. 

I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but currently Singapore has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Sean Flynn explains the system pretty well in a youtube video (

) and has also written a book on the subject ("The Cure That Works").

The tl;dr is that Singapore's healthcare system looks like this: 
1. The government takes over all healthcare insurance, everyone is put on the same plan.
2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
3. Every citizen is responsible for the first $4000 worth of medical expenses annually, and the government will pay for the rest.
4. Children, Elderly, and those who run out of money receive free healthcare, all paid for by the government.
5. All healthcare providers are required by law to post a "menu" of their healthcare services and their prices, allowing for people to shop around and spend their money smartly.

The result is that patients shop around for the best/cheapest services, doctors post competitive prices, and total money spent on healthcare per person drops to the lowest amount of any country by a significant margin.

Obviously this would be hard to replicate in the US as insurance providers are huge companies with a lot of political clout and who employ many Americans, so simply getting rid of them is not really an option. We could however build a system based on the fundamental principals of Singapore's system in which we mandate healthcare providers to post their prices up-front, we drop our ridiculous healthcare subsidies to promote smart shopping (something close to 88% of what we spend on healthcare is covered by the government, allowing consumers to essentially spend other people's money), and we implement regulations to force insurance providers to post the costs of their plans and prevent group negotiation practices which essentially force all US citizens to get healthcare through their employers rather than being able to shop for it themselves.

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## St James

> @Yossarian - I absolutely agree that we need to reform our current healthcare system. 
> 
> I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but currently Singapore has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Sean Flynn explains the system pretty well in a youtube video (
> 
> ) and has also written a book on the subject ("The Cure That Works").
> 
> The tl;dr is that Singapore's healthcare system looks like this: 
> 1. The government takes over all healthcare insurance, everyone is put on the same plan.
> 2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
> ...


All government controlled.................politicians here cannot balance their checkbooks, and we're suppose to trust them with our healthcare? 
Thanks, but no thanks. I get better care paying for my own than I would from Uncle Sam for a whole lot less.

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Brat (07-02-2020)

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## Oceander

> @Yossarian - I absolutely agree that we need to reform our current healthcare system. 
> 
> I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but currently Singapore has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Sean Flynn explains the system pretty well in a youtube video (
> 
> ) and has also written a book on the subject ("The Cure That Works").
> 
> The tl;dr is that Singapore's healthcare system looks like this: 
> 1. The government takes over all healthcare insurance, everyone is put on the same plan.
> 2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
> ...



It has a lot less to do with those "evil" insurance companies, and a lot more to do with the self-aggrandizing intelligentsia in the government and the hospitals.  If you're out-of-pocket, without insurance, don't try going to a hospital emergency room to have a deep, stubborn wood splinter removed from your 5 year old's heel - it'll cost you at least $3,000.  And the "doctors" will push all sorts of unnecessary tests and etc., just to run up the bill.

It's great that Singapore has a health system that works for them, but it won't simply "work" here without first having a good understanding of everything that drives costs and pricing here.  And again, it isn't just because of the "evil" "grasping" "greedy" insurance companies.

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## blazebot7000

@St James - You are right not to trust our government like they do in Singapore. I do not think that we could feasibly implement their system here, but I do think we could learn from their system and use it to better our own.

The problems that I see with our current system of healthcare are as follows:
1. Healthcare coverage offered by employers often limits employees to choose between very few select plans (limiting our ability to shop) and the healthcare marketplace is bloated with very overpriced plans to compensate for common group negotiating tactics.
2. As a consumer I am blind to the price of my procedures until I get the bill.
3. Doctors are blind to the cost of their procedures since every insurance company has a different negotiated rate.
4. Insurance companies overcharge due to laws regulating what they must cover.
5. Healthcare providers overcharge to compensate for many consumers who are unable to pay for their procedures.
6. Consumers are less thrifty and more liberal with the money they spend since most of it ends up coming out of the government's pocket.

With those points, most competition in the industry is snuffed out and consumers are denied the ability to shop. I think that in this case the governments role to provide new regulations could help solve these issues and save Americans a lot of money in the long run.

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## Yossarian

One thing to keep in mind, we all pay for the uninsured, one way or another. 

The resident doctors in ER's get paid by salaries. The receive no benefit from adding procedures. They follow "ethical" guidelines issued by the hospitals. Those exorbitant ER bills are designed to compensate for treating the indigent for which there is no, or minimal recompense. Laws require they be treated. And those without funds, or insurance, use ER's as clinics for every minor malady, with no follow up to keep them well once treated. 

Few paid attention because of 9/11 noise. George Bush jr. ordered the experimental opening of three wellness clinics for the indigent, medicare and medicaid patients to lift the burdens off the ER's local to those clinics. Local ERs were told to refuse patients with minor and chronic illnesses referring them to these clinics. The clinics were designed for patient follow up, with staffs of social workers, interns, nurse practitioners for managing most patients, and few doctors. Some of the local ERs saw their costs drop by as much as 70%, with the clinics costing less than 30% of that savings from the ERs. The clinics were also given immunity from liability laws, eliminating the cost of liability insurance, and allowed to negotiate the prices for the pharmaceuticals they recommended, and to give away generic pharmaceutical that were commonly prescribed. The clinics were also not burdened by multiple forms and requirements of multiple insurers, only medicare and medicaid. Initially, patient visits were frequent and waiting time severe, however as the wellness and follow up of patients took hold, visit frequency dropped substantially and waiting time neared zero. The clinics were funded for two years, not renewed and faded into history. But they demonstrated the value of alternate means of therapy delivery and a step away from procedural compensation for health care providers. George had this down pat, he was right. Homeland security took priority along with politics as usual.

I agree, the government should not administer health care. It must be in other hands. However that doesn't justify the blood money made by insurers nor their multimillion $ compensation for executive officers. The CEO of United Health Care received more than $254 mil last year, of yours and mine blood money. There is no justification. Exploring options for a healthier America at significantly lower costs is a necessity, not a right, not an invasion of privacy, not politics as usual. No healthcare is free. We need to seek new and better ways for delivering the healthcare Americans need and want.

You have the money, a boob job is on you, but let's not continue to be boobs.

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## Oceander

> One thing to keep in mind, we all pay for the uninsured, one way or another. 
> 
> The resident doctors in ER's get paid by salaries. The receive no benefit from adding procedures. They follow "ethical" guidelines issued by the hospitals. Those exorbitant ER bills are designed to compensate for treating the indigent for which there is no, or minimal recompense. Laws require they be treated. And those without funds, or insurance, use ER's as clinics for every minor malady, with no follow up to keep them well once treated. 
> 
> Few paid attention because of 9/11 noise. George Bush jr. ordered the experimental opening of three wellness clinics for the indigent, medicare and medicaid patients to lift the burdens off the ER's local to those clinics. Local ERs were told to refuse patients with minor and chronic illnesses referring them to these clinics. The clinics were designed for patient follow up, with staffs of social workers, interns, nurse practitioners for managing most patients, and few doctors. Some of the local ERs saw their costs drop by as much as 70%, with the clinics costing less than 30% of that savings from the ERs. The clinics were also given immunity from liability laws, eliminating the cost of liability insurance, and allowed to negotiate the prices for the pharmaceuticals they recommended, and to give away generic pharmaceutical that were commonly prescribed. The clinics were also not burdened by multiple forms and requirements of multiple insurers, only medicare and medicaid. Initially, patient visits were frequent and waiting time severe, however as the wellness and follow up of patients took hold, visit frequency dropped substantially and waiting time neared zero. The clinics were funded for two years, not renewed and faded into history. But they demonstrated the value of alternate means of therapy delivery and a step away from procedural compensation for health care providers. George had this down pat, he was right. Homeland security took priority along with politics as usual.
> 
> I agree, the government should not administer health care. It must be in other hands. However that doesn't justify the blood money made by insurers nor their multimillion $ compensation for executive officers. The CEO of United Health Care received more than $254 mil last year, of yours and mine blood money. There is no justification. Exploring options for a healthier America at significantly lower costs is a necessity, not a right, not an invasion of privacy, not politics as usual. No healthcare is free. We need to seek new and better ways for delivering the healthcare Americans need and want.
> 
> You have the money, a boob job is on you, but let's not continue to be boobs.



Exhorbitant ER bills also go to pay for exhorbitant salaries for the legions of administrators that encrust hospitals - particularly so-called not-for-profit hospitals - the way that barnacles encrust a ship that's never been maintained (like the Exxon Valdez in the old Water World movie disaster with Costner).

They do not represent merely the excess fee for the uninsured.

Whatever the motivation, doctors in hospitals most definitely push unnecessary procedures, in a manner that can most charitably be analogized to the way a drug-pusher pimps his wares.

Been there, seen it happen.  Got a 90 y.o. who is fading fast - he's on final approach, landing gear is down, flaps extended - well that enterprising young E.R. doctor is going to start pimping for an invasive colonoscopy, "just in case".

It happens, it happens often, and it happens in very abusive situations, where an individual is in extremis, and family members are trying to come to grips with the imminent loss of a loved one.

And it has nothing to do with greedy, grasping, evil insurance companies.  It has everything to do with greedy, grasping hospital administrators.

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St James (07-03-2020)

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## St James

Many hospitals are corporate owned by one or two major corporations
You don't own business that don't produce. Therefore, prices are manipulated to guarantee major stockholders are making money off the sick and injured.

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## NORAD

> Exhorbitant ER bills also go to pay for exhorbitant salaries for the legions of administrators that encrust hospitals - particularly so-called not-for-profit hospitals - the way that barnacles encrust a ship that's never been maintained (like the Exxon Valdez in the old Water World movie disaster with Costner).
> 
> They do not represent merely the excess fee for the uninsured.
> 
> Whatever the motivation, doctors in hospitals most definitely push unnecessary procedures, in a manner that can most charitably be analogized to the way a drug-pusher pimps his wares.
> 
> Been there, seen it happen.  Got a 90 y.o. who is fading fast - he's on final approach, landing gear is down, flaps extended - well that enterprising young E.R. doctor is going to start pimping for an invasive colonoscopy, "just in case".
> 
> It happens, it happens often, and it happens in very abusive situations, where an individual is in extremis, and family members are trying to come to grips with the imminent loss of a loved one.
> ...


Bullshit!

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## blazebot7000

In our capitalistic society, anyone can try to make money on anything. Is it wrong that hospital management/stakeholders make loads of money off overcharging those who are sick and vulnerable? Probably. But its totally legal and its pretty hard to implement regulation to prevent that from happening. The best way to help the consumers is to make hospitals compete with each other and to encourage and enable consumers to shop around. If the hospital management/stakeholders want to continue making money, they need to continually draw in new business, which means offing competitive rates with surrounding hospitals, offering quality services, and performing those services in a way that garnishes them good reviews.

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## Oceander

> In our capitalistic society, anyone can try to make money on anything. Is it wrong that hospital management/stakeholders make loads of money off overcharging those who are sick and vulnerable? Probably. But its totally legal and its pretty hard to implement regulation to prevent that from happening. The best way to help the consumers is to make hospitals compete with each other and to encourage and enable consumers to shop around. If the hospital management/stakeholders want to continue making money, they need to continually draw in new business, which means offing competitive rates with surrounding hospitals, offering quality services, and performing those services in a way that garnishes them good reviews.


Yeah, good luck with that.  Who's going to push them to compete?  The progs who control healthcare policy in this country?

In NY alone, there's been a massive consolidation of hospitals, so that, at this point, on Long Island there are only about two separate hospital conglomerates now, and they almost certainly have a divvy-up-the-market scheme between the two of them.

And is it wrong?  When it comes from so-called nonprofits, particularly the self-righteous nonprofits that claim to put people before profit, it's obscene.  The whole concept of a nonprofit is a complete lie except in the case of truly small organizations, like the (hypothetical) Peoria, IL, chess club.  Most nonprofits don't put people before profits, they put excess profits into the pockets of upper management (who typically would have been the principal shareholders if the company was for-profit).  Haven't you ever wondered why most nonprofits have payroll balances that dwarf the amount of grants they make each year?

Nonprofit status, and all the goodies that come with it, like tax-exemption, should be stripped from any organization that can afford to have paid full-time staff.  If it's not tantamount to a hobby, then it isn't a nonprofit organization, it's a for-profit business and should be treated accordingly.

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## Neo

The NHS  in the U.K.  facts and figures 

https://fullfact.org/health/how-nhs-funded/

A normal week I pay £91 NI (national insurance 
A normal week I pay around £190  Tax. 

Admittedly I do overtime at work, the more hours I work the more NI and tax I pay. 
For an American equivalent family man I guess he would be paying the same amount for his families health care?

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## Oceander

> The NHS  in the U.K.  facts and figures 
> 
> https://fullfact.org/health/how-nhs-funded/
> 
> A normal week I pay £91 NI (national insurance 
> A normal week I pay around £190  Tax. 
> 
> Admittedly I do overtime at work, the more hours I work the more NI and tax I pay. 
> For an American equivalent family man I guess he would be paying the same amount for his families health care?


A lot more than that.

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## Yossarian

> Exhorbitant ER bills also go to pay for exhorbitant salaries for the legions of administrators that encrust hospitals - particularly so-called not-for-profit hospitals - the way that barnacles encrust a ship that's never been maintained (like the Exxon Valdez in the old Water World movie disaster with Costner).
> 
> They do not represent merely the excess fee for the uninsured.
> 
> Whatever the motivation, doctors in hospitals most definitely push unnecessary procedures, in a manner that can most charitably be analogized to the way a drug-pusher pimps his wares.
> 
> Been there, seen it happen.  Got a 90 y.o. who is fading fast - he's on final approach, landing gear is down, flaps extended - well that enterprising young E.R. doctor is going to start pimping for an invasive colonoscopy, "just in case".
> 
> It happens, it happens often, and it happens in very abusive situations, where an individual is in extremis, and family members are trying to come to grips with the imminent loss of a loved one.
> ...


Last year the mean salary for hospital CEO's in US hospitals was about $157k. The average mean salary for CEO's of Healthcare insurers was $18mil. You were saying......??

Medicare, the likely insurer for a 90 year old, allows an $82 payment for a colonoscopy. It is unlikely that Medicare would approve a colonoscopy for a 90 year old, when sufficient what if data can be obtain from blood protein tests, combined with stool analysis for blood proteins. Basic cost of the two, about $12 each, medicare pays $7. Private insurers usually follow medicare guidelines.

Tho doctors are obligated by ethical, moral guidelines to prolong life, hospitals staffs have shifted toward comfort for the dying, and dignity. Elderly patients shortly after admission to hospitals are asked about living wills with do not resuscitate orders, if they are conscious and clear headed. I renew a living will with my attorney every year. I am not interested in being a living vegetable.

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## Rutabaga

> @Yossarian - I absolutely agree that we need to reform our current healthcare system. 
> 
> I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, but currently Singapore has one of the best healthcare systems in the world. Sean Flynn explains the system pretty well in a youtube video (
> 
> ) and has also written a book on the subject ("The Cure That Works").
> 
> The tl;dr is that Singapore's healthcare system looks like this: 
> 1. The government takes over all healthcare insurance, everyone is put on the same plan.
> 2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
> ...


2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
3. Every citizen is responsible for the first $4000 worth of medical expenses annually, and the government will pay for the rest.
4. Children, Elderly, and those who run out of money receive free healthcare, *all paid for by the government.


nonsense, its paid for by the ones contributing to the pool...not the government...just like here, the workers pay for what others get for nothing...

how's that "fair"?


btw, you must never have had any health ins. before obobo fucked it all up...you seem to think its better now...its not, its far worse after the progs got their grubby little hands on it...

you want to pay 4 thousand bucks every year before your ins. picks up anything, knock your lights put...i dont...


i liked it better before obobo/progs messed it all up...anybody whos lived it knows...*

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MedicineBow (07-05-2020),St James (07-05-2020)

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## St James

> 2. Every working citizen must contribute an amount from each paycheck to an HSA-like account with the government.
> 3. Every citizen is responsible for the first $4000 worth of medical expenses annually, and the government will pay for the rest.
> 4. Children, Elderly, and those who run out of money receive free healthcare, *all paid for by the government.
> 
> 
> nonsense, its paid for by the ones contributing to the pool...not the government...just like here, the workers pay for what others get for nothing...
> 
> how's that "fair"?
> 
> ...


it will wallow until the people who pay it are too broke to pay any more. Socialism is designed to tear a country's economy apart.

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