# Stuff and Things > COVID & VACCINES >  Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots

## Big Bird

*I believe the COVID vaccine is a greater threat to soldiers health and  military readiness than the virus itself,*

 U.S. Army aerospace  physician Lt. Col. Theresa Long said Tuesday.

https://www.westernjournal.com/army-...e1fb79162c525b

----------

Big Dummy (11-04-2021),Brat (11-04-2021),covfefe saved us (11-06-2021),phoenyx (11-04-2021),Quark (11-07-2021),Sunsettommy (11-04-2021),Swedgin (11-05-2021),teeceetx (11-04-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-05-2021)

----------


## teeceetx

And of course, the response is ALWAYS to prevent that person from further highlighting the dangers of the vaccines.

I guess military fighter jets/tankers/helicopters/transport aircraft will have to start falling from the sky before they decide it's a real issue worthy of further investigation.

I never thought I'd see such arrogant stupidity from our military.

----------

Big Bird (11-04-2021),Quark (11-07-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021)

----------


## Big Bird

> And of course, the response is ALWAYS to prevent that person from further highlighting the dangers of the vaccines.
> 
> I guess military fighter jets/tankers/helicopters/transport aircraft will have to start falling from the sky before they decide it's a real issue worthy of further investigation.
> 
> *I never thought I'd see such arrogant stupidity from our military.*


It runs downhill all the way from biden.

----------

Hillofbeans (11-07-2021),Quark (11-07-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-05-2021)

----------


## Old Tex

Just because some of you might not know...

AF Pilots are screened very, very closely all the time. They go through a lot of physicals simply because crashing one air plane is very costly plus they could crash in a populated area. And the discovery & grounding of these guys is proof that the vax does do something to people because they were cleared BEFORE getting the vax. That's a brave doctor who just ended her career to get that out. And if you don't think that it ended her career then you know nothing about the military.

----------

Big Bird (11-04-2021),MisterVeritis (11-07-2021),Quark (11-07-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-05-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> *“I believe the COVID vaccine is a greater threat to soldiers’ health and  military readiness than the virus itself,”*
> 
>  U.S. Army aerospace  physician Lt. Col. Theresa Long said Tuesday.
> 
> https://www.westernjournal.com/army-...e1fb79162c525b


An incredibly irresponsible and provably false statement on her behalf.

How many of our troops have had to be pulled from duty after testing positive?

How many of them had to be hospitalized?

How many of them have died?

Now apply the same tests to troops who have been vaccinated.

This will probably be the end of her career and justifiably so.,

----------


## Wildrose

Duplicate

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

Myopericarditis and pericarditis in the deployed military member: a retrospective series - PubMed

I guess Bill Gates was starting his population reduction back in the early 2000s.





> Between these years, approximately 721,600 service members served in Kuwait and Iraq. A total of 70 cases of pericarditis and 9 cases of myopericarditis were diagnosed. This yields an estimated incidence of 7.4 and 0.95 cases per 100,000 per year for pericarditis and myopericarditis, respectively. A total of eleven patients had received the smallpox vaccine 4 to 30 days before being diagnosed with pericarditis or myopericarditis. Four of the eleven patients (36.3%) had pericarditis, with a mean duration of 28.3 days since vaccination. Seven of these eleven (63.6%) patients had myopericarditis, with a mean duration of 13.7 days since smallpox vaccination.

----------

Wildrose (11-04-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Myopericarditis and pericarditis in the deployed military member: a retrospective series - PubMed
> 
> I guess Bill Gates was starting his population reduction back in the early 2000s.


The truth they'd like to keep buried is that both conditions have been around a very long time provably caused by various viral infections.

Probably all of us have had one or the other or both numerous times without it being diagnosed because they are usually asymptomatic.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> The truth they'd like to keep buried is that both conditions have been around a very long time provably caused by various viral infections.
> 
> Probably all of us have had one or the other or both numerous times without it being diagnosed because they are usually asymptomatic.


And young men have the greatest incidence.

I read some studies from BC (before-COVID) when I did my back-of-the-envelope estimate.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

If they were not inundating all of us with this non-news, maybe they could free up some resources to investigate real issues with the vax. 
Personally... I have some interest in interactions with medications that work with receptors on the cell that may also interact with antibodies produced from COVID or the VAX. 

But that's not as hair-raising as* "WE ALL GONNA DIE MAN!"*

So we get threads like this one.

----------


## Wildrose

> If they were not inundating all of us with this non-news, maybe they could free up some resources to investigate real issues with the vax. 
> Personally... I have some interest in interactions with medications that work with receptors on the cell that may also interact with antibodies produced from COVID or the VAX. 
> 
> But that's not as hair-raising as* "WE ALL GONNA DIE MAN!"*
> 
> So we get threads like this one.


Anti vax morphed into "covid doesn't even exist" to "viruses are actually produced in our own body for our own protection".

That kind of stupidity should hurt and it can damned sure be fatal if enough people buy into it.

----------


## phoenyx

> *I believe the COVID vaccine is a greater threat to soldiers health and  military readiness than the virus itself,*
> 
>  U.S. Army aerospace  physician Lt. Col. Theresa Long said Tuesday.
> 
> https://www.westernjournal.com/army-...e1fb79162c525b


Great article :-)

----------

Big Bird (11-05-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-05-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> An incredibly irresponsible and provably false statement on her behalf.
> 
> How many of our troops have had to be pulled from duty after testing positive?
> 
> How many of them had to be hospitalized?
> 
> How many of them have died?
> 
> Now apply the same tests to troops who have been vaccinated.
> ...


If you were not present to exam these patients before and after their vaccinations, you are in no position to comment on the practice of this physician. 

You are not a physician. And you are calling into question the expertise of the physician in the article. Based on what? I don't know. 

If this physician saw cause to ground these pilots, then she should be celebrated. She potentially saved their lives, and those of others in the area if they crashed. And saved the multi-million dollar pieces of equipment they are charged with flying. 

Perhaps it would be best to find the answer to the questions you pose, which are legitimate, before making idiotic and damaging comments about our nation's finest.

----------

Big Bird (11-05-2021),phoenyx (11-05-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> If you were not present to exam these patients before and after their vaccinations, you are in no position to comment on the practice of this physician. 
> 
> You are not a physician. And you are calling into question the expertise of the physician in the article. Based on what? I don't know. 
> 
> If this physician saw cause to ground these pilots, then she should be celebrated. She potentially saved their lives, and those of others in the area if they crashed. And saved the multi-million dollar pieces of equipment they are charged with flying. 
> 
> Perhaps it would be best to find the answer to the questions you pose, which are legitimate, before making idiotic and damaging comments about our nation's finest.


Agreed. Whenever someone says something that doesn't fit with his world view, he gets downright vindictive on them, regardless of their expertise and his lack thereof. He rarely considers questioning his -own- beliefs. And he almost never goes looking for solid evidence to back up his assertions.

----------

WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-05-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> If you were not present to exam these patients before and after their vaccinations, you are in no position to comment on the practice of this physician. 
> 
> You are not a physician. And you are calling into question the expertise of the physician in the article. Based on what? I don't know. 
> 
> If this physician saw cause to ground these pilots, then she should be celebrated. She potentially saved their lives, and those of others in the area if they crashed. And saved the multi-million dollar pieces of equipment they are charged with flying. 
> 
> Perhaps it would be best to find the answer to the questions you pose, which are legitimate, before making idiotic and damaging comments about our nation's finest.


It is irresponsible, gravely irresponsible for a military physician to make statements likely to cause panic among the troops and a breakdown of good order and discipline when the science doesn't support those conclusions.  Even then they are to be reported up the chain of command for the commanders to then decide what information to make public or even to disseminate within the ranks.

Vaccination is always the balancing of two things.  How many lives and how much suffering will vaccinating for a given disease cause vs the number who will be harmed by the vaccine.

If we stick to your criteria then you aren't qualified to comment at all since you neither served nor are you a doc.

The questions posed are absolutely legitimate since that is the equation we use to decide if vaccinations should be given.

Her career should be over and he license to practice reviewed.

Her decision to ground the pilots because of their symptoms isn't even an issue.

----------


## phoenyx

> It is irresponsible, gravely irresponsible for a military physician to make statements likely to cause panic among the troops and a breakdown of good order and discipline when the science doesn't support those conclusions.


True. On the other hand, if the science -does- support those conclusions, it would be gravely irresponsible for a military physician to -not- make those statements.

----------

WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> True. On the other hand, if the science -does- support those conclusions, it would be gravely irresponsible for a military physician to -not- make those statements.


No science supports her statements and she violated the chain of command voicing them publicly.

That's pretty much always a career ended and can land you in prison if significant damage is done.

Good order, discipline, and a positive attitude are essential to military organizations. 

Unnecessarily demoralizing and scaring the hell out of the troops destroys all of them and can lead to a military that cannot perform it's most basic responsibilities.

----------


## Swedgin

As intended.

Did everyone forget that Democrats have traditionally hated the Military, and the concept of a "Strong" America???

They will do all within their power to weaken America's readiness.

----------

Big Bird (11-05-2021),WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> No science supports her statements



Strongly disagree with you there.





> and she violated the chain of command voicing them publicly.


I have a quote from Frank Herbert for that one:
"Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"

----------

WarriorRob (11-05-2021),WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Strongly disagree with you there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a quote from Frank Herbert for that one:
> "Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"


Disagree all you want but you cannot produce any actual science to support your position.

Military organizations are inherently hierarchal and legalistic they have to be in a free country.  Otherwise they become the arm of which ever party is in power rather than "supporting and protecting The Constitution".

For our military to operate and to be controlled good order and discipline must be maintained at all times.  We can't let military members let their politics dictate their actions.

----------


## crayons

> For our military to operate and to be controlled good order and discipline must be maintained at all times.  We can't let military members let their politics dictate their actions.


I call 'bravo-sierra' sunshine...The woke generals=o'blamo's
minions love libtardedness...IE:makin troops parade around in pink high heeled shoes, tranny BS >>>the beat goes on

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> I call 'bravo-sierra' sunshine...The woke generals=o'blamo's
> minions love libtardedness...IE:makin troops parade around in pink high heeled shoes, tranny BS >>>the beat goes on


Your problem is that none of that is happening.

As many of us have noted however he's gutting the senior ranks of both NCO's and CO's to replace them with "Woke" leadership which is extremely damaging to the entire force in the long run.

China, Russia, Iran and all the terrorists are salivating and planning future operations to take advantage of it.

----------


## phoenyx

> Disagree all you want but you cannot produce any actual science to support your position.


Says the guy who almost never produces any actual science to support his position :-p. Listen Wildrose, you can believe whatever you want, but if you actually want to persuade people instead of tell people how right you are, you're going to have to spend a little less time telling people how you know the word and insulting people who don't agree with your point of view, and a little more time on actually producing evidence for your positions.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Strongly disagree with you there.
> 
> I have a quote from Frank Herbert for that one:
> "Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"


You arn't very good with logic. It really could be explained with venn diagrams. 

Your quote - even assuming for a minute that it is true- does not preclude the law being on the side of morality and legal niceties.  It simply says that morality and legal niceties will not dictate what the law is.


But besides that, Frank Herbert was a scifi writer.  Nothing that he said or wrote has any stamp of truth no matter how much he makes people like you go "WOW MAN. THAT'S DEEP".

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...



You're right. In this case, however, I believe that morality is being through out the window when it comes to these Covid mandates and when it comes to people speaking out against them.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> I call 'bravo-sierra' sunshine...The woke generals=o'blamo's
> minions love libtardedness...IE:makin troops parade around in pink high heeled shoes, tranny BS >>>the beat goes on


I call Lima Oscar Oscar November.

Even when - like a stopped clock twice a day- you are right, the loon calls are loud and clear.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> You're right. In this case, however, I believe that morality is being through out the window when it comes to these Covid mandates and when it comes to people speaking out against them.


We both believe mandates are wrong. But I believe they are wrong for reasons based on individual liberty and freedom from federal over-reach. You believe they are wrong because morons who captured your imagination told you they are wrong.

----------


## phoenyx

> We both believe mandates are wrong. But I believe they are wrong for reasons based on individual liberty and freedom from federal over-reach. You believe they are wrong because [insult removed]



No, I believe they're wrong for the same reason you believe they're wrong. I -also- believe that these alleged vaccines don't protect anyone against anything and are essentially poison to boot.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## crayons

> If they were not inundating all of us with this non-news, maybe they could free up some resources to investigate real issues with the vax. 
> Personally... I have some interest in interactions with medications that work with receptors on the cell that may also interact with antibodies produced from COVID or the VAX. 
> 
> But that's not as hair-raising as* "WE ALL GONNA DIE MAN!"*
> 
> So we get threads like this one.


Lets just cut to the chase 'sunshine' > Cov19 is a mix of Sars  the Common Cold and an HIV-gain of function...The 
HIV-gain of function was cooked up at Ft. Detrick MD over 25 years ago under Fauci's direction and was sold by proxy to the Chicoms under the O'homo Administration from University of North Carolina around 2014.

If you acknowledge what I'm tellin ya, ""I'll continue""", since all the above has been documented.

I'm waitin on you 'goober'

----------


## Wildrose

> Says the guy who almost never produces any actual science to support his position :-p. Listen Wildrose, you can believe whatever you want, but if you actually want to persuade people instead of tell people how right you are, you're going to have to spend a little less time telling people how you know the word and insulting people who don't agree with your point of view, and a little more time on actually producing evidence for your positions.


Stop lying.  I regularly provide more support for my arguments in the form of links to qualified and respected sources than anyone on this forum.

----------


## Wildrose

> Lets just cut to the chase 'sunshine' > Cov19 is a mix of Sars  the Common Cold and an HIV-gain of function...The 
> HIV-gain of function was cooked up at Ft. Detrick MD over 25 years ago under Fauci's direction and was sold by proxy to the Chicoms under the O'homo Administration from University of North Carolina around 2014.
> 
> If you acknowledge what I'm tellin ya, ""I'll continue""", since all the above has been documented.
> 
> I'm waitin on you 'goober'



That's so far out in left field you're on Pluto.

It's utterly insane and you could not show it to be true in a million years.

----------


## crayons

> That's so far out in left field you're on Pluto.
> 
> It's utterly insane and you could not show it to be true in a million years.


Yes Ma`am, The person all y'all dislike the most says otherwise. All y'all goober-boobs 
Hate the gentleman who wrote the BioWeapons Laws as they are to be followed today.
Should I mention his name again? Cuz if I do it sends all y'all goobermental's over the 
edge, Especially you 'rosebud' n' I'll Enjoy readin yer fits of rage.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Yes Ma`am, The person all y'all dislike the most says otherwise. All y'all goober-boobs 
> Hate the gentleman who wrote the BioWeapons Laws as they are to be followed today.
> Should I mention his name again? Cuz if I do it sends all y'all goobermental's over the 
> edge, Especially you 'rosebud' n' I'll Enjoy readin yer fits of rage.


Grow the hell up crayon boy.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Listen Wildrose, you can believe whatever you want, but if you actually want to persuade people instead of tell people how right you are, you're going to have to spend a little less time telling people how you know the word and insulting people who don't agree with your point of view, and a little more time on actually producing evidence for your positions.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop lying.



There you go again, accusations first, evidence almost never.





> I regularly provide more support for my arguments in the form of links to qualified and respected sources than anyone on this forum.



Oh, I certainly acknowledge that you post a link or 2 now and again, and expect people to find the evidence you claim in said links. It's a far cry from what I do, which is post various quotes from my sources and -then- link to them if anyone would like to verify from those sources. Speaking of which, remember that time when you stated that there was only one program where people who suffered vaccine injuries (or the next of kin, if they died), could go to get compensation? Remember how I pointed out that no, Covid vaccine recipients had to go to a different program and that it rarely awarded money? Now, had our places been reversed, I would have apologized and said that you were right, there are in fact 2. You never did that though. Why is that?

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> It is irresponsible, gravely irresponsible for a military physician to make statements likely to cause panic among the troops and a breakdown of good order and discipline when the science doesn't support those conclusions.  Even then they are to be reported up the chain of command for the commanders to then decide what information to make public or even to disseminate within the ranks.
> 
> Vaccination is always the balancing of two things.  How many lives and how much suffering will vaccinating for a given disease cause vs the number who will be harmed by the vaccine.
> 
> If we stick to your criteria then you aren't qualified to comment at all since you neither served *nor are you a doc.*
> 
> The questions posed are absolutely legitimate since that is the equation we use to decide if vaccinations should be given.
> 
> Her career should be over and he license to practice reviewed.
> ...


Bold  mine

Now you are lying. I am most certainly a physician. Just because you don't think I am, doesn't make that true. 

Once again, talking out of your ass. 

So I can comment. What medical expertise do you have that you can make such a blanket statement without actually examining these patients yourself?

----------


## WhoKnows

> No science supports her statements and *she violated the chain of command voicing them publicly.*
> 
> That's pretty much always a career ended and can land you in prison if significant damage is done.
> 
> Good order, discipline, and a positive attitude are essential to military organizations. 
> 
> Unnecessarily demoralizing and scaring the hell out of the troops destroys all of them and can lead to a military that cannot perform it's most basic responsibilities.


Bold mine. As a physician, her responsibility is to the patient, FIRST. Period.

----------


## WhoKnows

> If you were not present to exam these patients before and after their vaccinations, you are in no position to comment on the practice of this physician. 
> 
> You are not a physician. And you are calling into question the expertise of the physician in the article. Based on what? I don't know. 
> 
> If this physician saw cause to ground these pilots, then she should be celebrated. She potentially saved their lives, and those of others in the area if they crashed. And saved the multi-million dollar pieces of equipment they are charged with flying. 
> 
> Perhaps it would be best to find the answer to the questions you pose, which are legitimate, before making idiotic and damaging comments about our nation's finest.


Here's my quotation. 

Where did I say that you HAVE to be a physician to comment on this? I'll wait...

If anything, I'm asking you how you are qualified to call into question the expertise of a physician. And you haven't provided an answer to that, yet. I'll wait...

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Bold  mine
> 
> Now you are lying. *I am most certainly a physician*. Just because you don't think I am, doesn't make that true. 
> 
> Once again, talking out of your ass. 
> 
> So I can comment. What medical expertise do you have that you can make such a blanket statement without actually examining these patients yourself?


physician noun

phy·​si·​cian | \ fə-ˈzi-shən  \
Definition of physician
1: a person skilled in the art of healing
specifically : one educated, clinically experienced, and licensed to practice medicine as usually distinguished from surgery


*???*

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Bold mine. As a physician, her responsibility is to the patient, FIRST. Period.


She did her duty for the patient.  But then she decided to play vax activist.  An investigation may have been required after she grounded some pilots. But I didn't read where she was ordered or authorized to perform that investigation.

----------

Wildrose (11-06-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> physician noun
> 
> phy·​si·​cian | \ fə-ˈzi-shən  \
> Definition of physician
> 1: a person skilled in the art of healing
> specifically : one educated, clinically experienced, and licensed to practice medicine as usually distinguished from surgery
> 
> 
> *???*


Fantastic. I am definitely a physician. AND a surgeon. 

Well played!

----------


## WhoKnows

> She did her duty for the patient.  But then she decided to play vax activist.  An investigation may have been required after she grounded some pilots. But I didn't read where she was ordered or authorized to perform that investigation.


Her duty is to protect her OTHER patients from potential harm due to something she deems as medically dangerous. 

Thanks for confirming.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by WhoKnows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...


As the cambridge dictionary points out, duty has 2 meanings:
"something that you have to do because it is part of your job, or something that you feel is the right thing to do"

Source:
DUTY | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary


The job part of her duty would have been accomplished by simply patching up her patient and perhaps issuing an internal report. Fortunately for everyone who wants the truth to come out, she went beyond her job description and publicly voiced her conclusions regarding these vaccines. For all we know, she may -lose- her job because of it if she hasn't already, but that doesn't detract from the fact that she did the right thing.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Fantastic. I am definitely a physician. AND a surgeon. 
> 
> Well played!


Trimming people's toenails is not what most people thing of when they see the word physician.

----------


## WhoKnows

> Trimming people's toenails is not what most people thing of when they see the word physician.


Interesting that you think I'm a Podiatrist. Trying to dox me? Isn't that against the rules?

Oh, and yes, Podiatrists are considered Physicians.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Interesting that you think I'm a Podiatrist. *Trying to dox me? Isn't that against the rules*?
> 
> Oh, and yes, Podiatrists are considered Physicians.


You want to report me? Good. If that works, then I can nail those motherfuckers who are trying to say I work for the government or big pharma. Let's do it. You ready for this  @QuaseMarco? 

But you are the one who has been pretending to have authority in the medical domain by calling yourself a doctor.

----------


## WhoKnows

> You want to report me? Good. If that works, then I can nail those motherfuckers who are trying to say I work for the government or big pharma.
> 
> But you are the one who has been pretending to have authority in the medical domain by calling yourself a doctor.


Not pretending. Thanks for your input.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> As the cambridge dictionary points out, duty has 2 meanings:
> "something that you have to do because it is part of your job, or something that you feel is the right thing to do"
> 
> Source:
> DUTY | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
> 
> 
> The job part of her duty would have been accomplished by simply patching up her patient and perhaps issuing an internal report. Fortunately for everyone who wants the truth to come out, she went beyond her job description and publicly voiced her conclusions regarding these vaccines. For all we know, she may -lose- her job because of it if she hasn't already, but that doesn't detract from the fact that she did the right thing.


She may have been required to report three pilots grounded for chest pains and chronic fatigue. But unless she had conducted an investigation into other potential causes, her report that the pilots were suffering from "vaccine injury" was irresponsible and unprofessional. Such a conclusion could have legitimately come only from a team investigating the pilots' missions profiles, changes in aircraft systems - such as oxygen systems - and  behaviors on and off duty over the past few weeks.  If that happened it wasn't described in the "story". So we have to assume the good doctor took it upon herself to guess.

----------


## QuaseMarco

> You want to report me? Good. If that works, then I can nail those motherfuckers who are trying to say I work for the government or big pharma. Let's do it. You ready for this  @QuaseMarco? 
> 
> But you are the one who has been pretending to have authority in the medical domain by calling yourself a doctor.


Ready for what?  Are you becoming paranoid again?

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> As the cambridge dictionary points out, duty has 2 meanings:
> "something that you have to do because it is part of your job, or something that you feel is the right thing to do"
> Source:
> DUTY | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
> 
> The job part of her duty would have been accomplished by simply patching up her patient and perhaps issuing an internal report. Fortunately for everyone who wants the truth to come out, she went beyond her job description and publicly voiced her conclusions regarding these vaccines. For all we know, she may -lose- her job because of it if she hasn't already, but that doesn't detract from the fact that she did the right thing.
> ...


Conducting investigations as to whether something that looks like a vaccine injury could have been something else is not part of a U.S. Army Flight Surgeon's job duties. Here's their job duties:

**
*JOB DUTIES*


Provide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation personnelServe as a career specialist in aviation/aerospace medicine in areas of aircrew standards, aero medical education, aero medical research, and aero medical administration and consultationProvide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation and other operational units
**
Source:
Flight Surgeon (61N) | goarmy.com

I'm not sure if you're even aware of how it came to be that she became a whistleblower. It's all in the linked story in the opening post, but I don't know if you read it. Just in case you didn't, as well as for anyone else who hasn't:
***U.S. Army Brigade Surgeon says in one morning I had to ground 3 out of 3 pilots due to vaccine injuries at a panel discussion hosted by U.S. Sen. Ron Johnson.pic.twitter.com/jLlGwePPdQ
[snip]

Following the groundings, Long said she suffered harassment. After I reported to my command my concerns that in one morning I had to ground three out of three pilots due to vaccine injuries, the next day my patients were canceled, my charts were pulled for review, and I was told that I would not be seeing acute patients anymore, just healthy pilots there for their flight physical, she said.*
**


What's going on in the military is unconscionable and she did the right thing in blowing the whistle on it. She actually first blew the whistle on these vaccines way back at the end of September:
Senior Army flight surgeon warns pilots could die in mid-flight from vaccine side effects - Washington Times

----------

QuaseMarco (11-06-2021),WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## QuaseMarco

There is an all out multi-pronged assault on truth in this country when it comes to Covid & Covid Vaccines.

----------

phoenyx (11-06-2021),WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Conducting investigations as to whether something that looks like a vaccine injury could have been something else is not part of a U.S. Army Flight Surgeon's job duties. Here's their job duties:
> 
> **
> *JOB DUTIES*
> 
> 
> Provide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation personnelServe as a career specialist in aviation/aerospace medicine in areas of aircrew standards, aero medical education, aero medical research, and aero medical administration and consultationProvide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation and other operational units
> **
> Source:
> ...


Ahhh...so there is where she went outside of command channels to become an activist.  She publicized information on operational readiness.  


Went outside of command channels....just like Vindman.


You don't understand the military.  Just stop while you are ahead.

----------


## WhoKnows

> Ahhh...so there is where she went outside of command channels to become an activist.  She publicized information on operational readiness.  
> 
> 
> Went outside of command channels....just like Vindman.
> 
> 
> You don't understand the military.  Just stop while you are ahead.


Interesting you bring up Vindman. He is a hero to the Left. Despite him doing exactly what you say this doctor is doing.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Conducting investigations as to whether something that looks like a vaccine injury could have been something else is not part of a U.S. Army Flight Surgeon's job duties. Here's their job duties:
> 
> **
> *JOB DUTIES*
> 
> Provide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation personnelServe as a career specialist in aviation/aerospace medicine in areas of aircrew standards, aero medical education, aero medical research, and aero medical administration and consultationProvide aviation and general medical services for Army aviation and other operational units
> ...


I believe I understand it all too well. Here's some more from the article in the opening post that I think speaks quite eloquently for what I'm getting at:
**
Long continued: “Our service members are national treasures. They have stared down bullets, been blown up by IEDs and bombs, they have endured thankless and protracted wars, missing the birth of their children.
“They bore the burden, no matter the cost. They did so without respect of political party or narrative.
“These are warriors. Not lab rats. They deserve the best medical care.”
Despite Long being horrified as she researched bad reactions to the COVID vaccines, she told of hearing from soldiers at Fort Benning, Georgia, about how they were being coerced to take the shots in violation of medical ethics, including the Nuremberg Code.
“There’s a concept of the tenth man – the loyal dissenter,” she said. “That’s the person that you select to be the dissenting opinion to prevent groupthink.
[snip]


“Fellow Americans,” Long addressed the roundtable, “You are the ones taking on the risk. My recommendations are that Dr. Fauci and the members of the FDA and NIH are unfit to fly this plane. They need to be grounded
“… Medicine is not perfect. Doctors are not perfect. This vaccine is not perfect. Yet, we are mandating every single American get on board a single aircraft piloted by bureaucrats and administrators who are unfit to fly the aircraft.
“They need to be grounded. These are not leaders. These are administrators faithfully implementing policies.
“There is one narrative: That the vaccines are safe and effective, but neither are true.”
**

Source:
Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots After They Develop Serious Chest Pain

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## QuaseMarco

Didn't Vindman lie?

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Interesting you bring up Vindman. He is a hero to the Left. Despite him doing exactly what you say this doctor is doing.


Yep. Going outside command channels to complain is often used by activists. Whether they are right or wrong.  Billy Michell was court martialed for his public criticism of his leadership. And he is now credited as "father of the US AIRFORCE".


So... nothing new here.  Vax conspiracy is unlikely the cause of her being relieved of duty.

----------


## WhoKnows

> Didn't Vindman lie?


Many, many times.

----------

QuaseMarco (11-06-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> Yep. Going outside command channels to complain is often used by activists. Whether they are right or wrong.  Billy Michell was court martialed for his public criticism of his leadership. And he is now credited as "father of the US AIRFORCE".
> 
> 
> So... nothing new here.  Vax conspiracy is unlikely the cause of her being releived of duty.


So what would be? 

And why is it that Vindman is considered a hero for doing so, but not this physician? If she did actually do that.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> So what would be? 
> 
> And why is it that Vindman is considered a hero for doing so, but not this physician? If she did actually do that.


She is considered a hero by you. 

Those who side with the one who goes out of channels will consider that one a hero. I consider Billy Mitchell a hero and he was court martialed.

----------


## WhoKnows

> She is considered a hero by you. 
> 
> Those who side with the one who goes out of channels will consider that one a hero. I consider Billy Mitchell a hero and he was court martialed.


Where did I say that? 

I consider she did her job as a physician to protect her patients. That's not being heroic. That's what doctors should do.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Where did I say that? 
> 
> I consider she did her job as a physician to protect her patients. That's not being heroic. That's what doctors should do.


She did that.  Yes.  But then she went beyond and guessed at the reasons why her patients were sick. And prior to that she went outside command channels to file a complaint.  And she publicly released operational readiness information that would give an adversary military advantage over us.

----------


## WhoKnows

> She did that.  Yes.  But then she went beyond and guessed at the reasons why her patients were sick. And prior to that she went outside command channels to file a complaint.  And she publicly released operational readiness information that would give an adversary military advantage over us.


Thank you for confirming that I did not call her a hero and that she was doing her job as a physician, to prevent her patients from something she felt was dangerous to them. 

The rest, I will let the military sort out.

----------


## Wildrose

> Bold mine. As a physician, her responsibility is to the patient, FIRST. Period.


The entire Army is not her patient.

----------


## Wildrose

> Here's my quotation. 
> 
> Where did I say that you HAVE to be a physician to comment on this? I'll wait...
> 
> If anything, I'm asking you how you are qualified to call into question the expertise of a physician. And you haven't provided an answer to that, yet. I'll wait...





> _You are not a physician. And you are calling into question the expertise of the physician in the article. Based on what? I don't know._


Can you really not remember your own posts?

----------


## Wildrose

> Fantastic. I am definitely a physician. AND a surgeon. 
> 
> Well played!


And I'm Mary Poppins.

You don't even demonstrate the knowledge of a 1st year pre med student.

----------


## Wildrose

> Bold  mine
> 
> Now you are lying. I am most certainly a physician. Just because you don't think I am, doesn't make that true. 
> 
> Once again, talking out of your ass. 
> 
> So I can comment. What medical expertise do you have that you can make such a blanket statement without actually examining these patients yourself?


You are a doc as much as a duck is a buffalo.

----------


## Wildrose

> Bold mine. As a physician, her responsibility is to the patient, FIRST. Period.


No, her first duty is to the oath she takes as an officer.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by WhoKnows
> 
> 
> Bold mine. As a physician, her responsibility is to the patient, FIRST. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> No, her first duty is to the oath she takes as an officer.


I don't see how it has to be a mutually exclusive proposition. I went and looked at the oath commissioned officers take. Here it is:

**
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
**

Source:
https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html


I believe she discharged her duties and went beyond them. She -could- have just accept the military's decision to have her only check healthy patients, but she had a big enough heart to care for all those pilots who could no longer fly due to becoming ill after getting a Covid vaccine. I would say that in doing so, she is defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic. I and many others strongly believe that these Covid vaccines are seriously injuring and even killing many Americans with the knowledge of those who are creating them. If that isn't an enemy of the Constution and the people of the United States, I don't know what is.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by WhoKnows
> 
> 
> I consider she did her job as a physician to protect her patients. That's not being heroic. That's what doctors should do.
> 
> 
> 
> She did that.  Yes.  But then she went beyond and guessed at the reasons why her patients were sick. And prior to that she went outside command channels to file a complaint.


She told the American people what she believed was happening, based on the evidence that she had gathered. What doctor in good conscience would keep silent if they thought their patients were being poisoned by their own government?

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> She told the American people what she believed was happening, based on the evidence that she had gathered. What doctor in good conscience would keep silent if they thought their patients were being poisoned by their own government?


She was a military officer first. A doctor second.  If that wasn't the case, she should have resigned her commission. Just stop.  You are completely and totally ignorant about the military.

She was not being asked to follow an illegal order and was not witness to any illegal act.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> She told the American people what she believed was happening, based on the evidence that she had gathered. What doctor in good conscience would keep silent if they thought their patients were being poisoned by their own government?
> 
> 
> She was a military officer first. A doctor second.



Why on earth do you think that a military officer shouldn't try to protect those in their care?





> She was not being asked to follow an illegal order and was not witness to any illegal act.


As I mentioned before:
**
Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?
**

Nazi soldiers also said that they were just following orders. The Nuremberg trials determined that this was not a valid reason for being complicit in heinous acts.

----------


## WhoKnows

> You are a doc as much as a duck is a buffalo.


Then you are going to have to show me a picture of a duck that is a buffalo. 

I doesn't matter what you think. You carrying on and on and making yourself look petty doesn't change the absolute fact that I am a physician and a surgeon. Whether you believe me or not is both irrelevant to me and to this conversation. 

So once again, what credentials do you have that you can comment so definitively on what this military doctor has said about her patients?

----------

phoenyx (11-06-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> She was a military officer first. A doctor second.  If that wasn't the case, she should have resigned her commission. Just stop.  You are completely and totally ignorant about the military.
> 
> She was not being asked to follow an illegal order and was not witness to any illegal act.


It's just staggering to me how someone so clueless talks with such authority. Amazing stuff.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Why on earth do you think that a military officer shouldn't try to protect those in their care?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I mentioned before:
> **
> Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?
> **
> ...


You are totally ignorant and uninformed regarding the military. You were certainly never in the military, likely would be rejected if you tried to be. So just stop posting assholish questions and comments about what/when/ and why a military officer does something.

Your stupidass quote is from a fucking science fiction writer, you loon . It is meaningless in this context and doesn't even say what your simple mind thinks it says.

----------


## WhoKnows

> You are totally ignorant and uninformed regarding thr military. You were certainly never in the military, likely would be rejected if you tried to be. So just stop posting assholish questions and comments about what/when/ and why a military officer does something.


Dude, you seriously need to pipe down. I can't fathom how or why you are so angry all the time. 

Jeez. Smoke some weed, or have a drink. Meditate. Do whatever you need to do. Calm the fuck down. Jeez. You're going to pop an aneurysm or something.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> It's just staggering to me how someone so clueless talks with such authority. Amazing stuff.


You know nothing about the military. You are as ignorant about it as your buddy @phoenyx is.

----------


## WhoKnows

> You know nothing about the military. You are as ignorant about it as your buddy @phoenyx is.


LMAO...whatever you say. After all, you know everything about everything. You and the other guy should start your own forum community. Where no one can question you, you are always right, and if someone says otherwise, you insult them and then throw them off your forum. 

That's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Make it so unpalatable to discuss anything with you, that eventually people will just stop engaging with you? Then you will feel that because no one is engaging, everything you say is gospel. Right?

Again, why are so angry all the time? Chillax, man.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Why on earth do you think that a military officer shouldn't try to protect those in their care?
> 
> As I mentioned before:
> **
> Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?
> **
> ...



I still have no idea why you think this. One thing's for sure though, Army Flight Surgeon Lt. Col. Theresa Long is -in- the military. I think some of what she has said is words you would do well to consider:


**
Long continued: Our service members are national treasures. They have stared down bullets, been blown up by IEDs and bombs, they have endured thankless and protracted wars, missing the birth of their children.
They bore the burden, no matter the cost. They did so without respect of political party or narrative.
These are warriors. Not lab rats. They deserve the best medical care.
Despite Long being horrified as she researched bad reactions to the COVID vaccines, she told of hearing from soldiers at Fort Benning, Georgia, about how they were being coerced to take the shots in violation of medical ethics, including the Nuremberg Code.
Theres a concept of the tenth man  the loyal dissenter, she said. Thats the person that you select to be the dissenting opinion to prevent groupthink.
[snip]


Fellow Americans, Long addressed the roundtable, You are the ones taking on the risk. My recommendations are that Dr. Fauci and the members of the FDA and NIH are unfit to fly this plane. They need to be grounded
 Medicine is not perfect. Doctors are not perfect. This vaccine is not perfect. Yet, we are mandating every single American get on board a single aircraft piloted by bureaucrats and administrators who are unfit to fly the aircraft.
They need to be grounded. These are not leaders. These are administrators faithfully implementing policies.
There is one narrative: That the vaccines are safe and effective, but neither are true.
**

Source:
Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots After They Develop Serious Chest Pain

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> LMAO...whatever you say. After all, you know everything about everything. You and the other guy should start your own forum community. Where no one can question you, you are always right, and if someone says otherwise, you insult them and then throw them off your forum. 
> 
> That's what you're trying to do here, isn't it? Make it so unpalatable to discuss anything with you, that eventually people will just stop engaging with you? Then you will feel that because no one is engaging, everything you say is gospel. Right?
> 
> Again, why are so angry all the time? Chillax, man.



Honestly, I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish with all his insults. Perhaps he has no plan at all, just a man who thinks that insulting people who disagree with him will make things better.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> Honestly, I'm not sure what he's trying to accomplish with all his insults. Perhaps he has no plan at all, just a man who thinks that insulting people who disagree with him will make things better.


Some people just want to see the World burn...

----------


## phoenyx

> Some people just want to see the World burn...


I don't think that's what he wants. I think he just thinks if everyone thought like him, things would be peachy keen. I think we can agree, however, that if everyone -argued- like him, we'd have way too many flame wars :-p.

----------

WhoKnows (11-06-2021)

----------


## crayons

> I call Lima Oscar Oscar November.
> 
> Even when - like a stopped clock twice a day- you are right, the loon calls are loud and clear.


As your New C.O. I'm orderin ya to begin cleanin up the parade grounds at 0:600 >>> and if I see One Cigarette Butt You'll
be on latrine duty for 30 days shining n' polishin up the drains...Do I make myself clear 'sunshine'?  If not you'll
be fillin sandbags out on the dirt range till ya learn ta respect folks...Now git outta here > hammerhead

----------


## Physics Hunter

> An incredibly irresponsible and provably false statement on her behalf.
> 
> How many of our troops have had to be pulled from duty after testing positive?
> 
> How many of them had to be hospitalized?
> 
> How many of them have died?
> 
> Now apply the same tests to troops who have been vaccinated.
> ...


Sports world athletes are getting struck with this heart shit too...

And anyone that thinks a pilot (especially a fighter pilot) is not an athlete does not know that they are talking about.

----------

phoenyx (11-07-2021),WhoKnows (11-07-2021),Wildrose (11-07-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> Sports world athletes are getting struck with this heart shit too...
> 
> And anyone that thinks a pilot (especially a fighter pilot) is not an athlete does not know that they are talking about.


Absolutely. The Navy pilots I knew were incredibly fit.

----------

phoenyx (11-07-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Then you are going to have to show me a picture of a duck that is a buffalo. 
> 
> I doesn't matter what you think. You carrying on and on and making yourself look petty doesn't change the absolute fact that I am a physician and a surgeon. Whether you believe me or not is both irrelevant to me and to this conversation. 
> 
> So once again, what credentials do you have that you can comment so definitively on what this military doctor has said about her patients?


No doctor would claim the case mortality rate was irrelevant, you did.

There you go again, what she said about her patients was never a point of contention.

No matter your MOS your first duty is to uphold the oath you take when commissioned or enlisting.  She violated that oath and her career should be ended.

----------


## Wildrose

> Sports world athletes are getting struck with this heart shit too...
> 
> And anyone that thinks a pilot (especially a fighter pilot) is not an athlete does not know that they are talking about.


Athlete's tend to be among the highest risk group for these conditions even absent illness or vaccines due to the physical stress and repeated trauma.

----------


## Wildrose

> Sports world athletes are getting struck with this heart shit too...
> 
> And anyone that thinks a pilot (especially a fighter pilot) is not an athlete does not know that they are talking about.


This is an Army Doc so it would be Helicopter and maybe observer 2 wing pilots but the point still stands.

----------


## WhoKnows

> *No doctor would claim the case mortality rate was irrelevant, you did.*
> 
> There you go again, what she said about her patients was never a point of contention.
> 
> No matter your MOS your first duty is to uphold the oath you take when commissioned or enlisting.  She violated that oath and her career should be ended.


Bold mine. Funny because there are plenty of doctors out there that I know that say exactly that. Some of which have worked with the CDC, as well. 

Can you answer the question or not?

----------


## WhoKnows

> *An incredibly irresponsible and provably false statement on her behalf.*
> 
> How many of our troops have had to be pulled from duty after testing positive?
> 
> How many of them had to be hospitalized?
> 
> How many of them have died?
> 
> Now apply the same tests to troops who have been vaccinated.
> ...


Bold mine. She is giving her medical opinion and you are saying that her opinion is irresponsible and has been proven false. 

Well, not according to her evaluation and management of her patients. Why do you feel you are in a position to argue this point?

As mentioned the first time I commented on your post, unless you were there to evaluate those patients, you can't possibly know how she arrived at her conclusions.

She is using her medical expertise to arrive at a conclusion. What expertise do you have to nullify this conclusion she made, evaluating her patients.

----------


## Wildrose

> Bold mine. Funny because there are plenty of doctors out there that I know that say exactly that. Some of which have worked with the CDC, as well. 
> 
> Can you answer the question or not?


Only if they are completely uneducated buffoons or dishonest.

If it's irrelevant why would the even bother keeping such stat's and make the emergency adjustments of where resources are going dependent on it?

If the case mortality rate were zero Covid would not even matter.

----------


## Wildrose

> Bold mine. She is giving her medical opinion and you are saying that her opinion is irresponsible and has been proven false. 
> 
> Well, not according to her evaluation and management of her patients. Why do you feel you are in a position to argue this point?
> 
> As mentioned the first time I commented on your post, unless you were there to evaluate those patients, you can't possibly know how she arrived at her conclusions.
> 
> She is using her medical expertise to arrive at a conclusion. What expertise do you have to nullify this conclusion she made, evaluating her patients.


No you ignorant twit, nobody here is arguing her diagnosis or grounding of the two pilots was in any way inappropriate.

The only issue is running her mouth to create an unnecessary panic that cannot be justified by any of the stat's and doing it outside the chain of command.

----------

Call_me_Ishmael (11-07-2021)

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> No you ignorant twit, nobody here is arguing her diagnosis or grounding of the two pilots was in any way inappropriate.
> 
> The only issue is running her mouth to create an unnecessary panic that cannot be justified by any of the stat's and doing it outside the chain of command.


But they find that the strawman they created is easier to debate.

----------

Wildrose (11-07-2021)

----------


## WhoKnows

> No you ignorant twit, nobody here is arguing her diagnosis or grounding of the two pilots was in any way inappropriate.
> 
> The only issue is running her mouth to create an unnecessary panic that cannot be justified by any of the stat's and doing it outside the chain of command.


I'm no ignorant twit. I have an opinion that's different than yours. That's all. 

I continue to baffled as to why you are here. You want everyone to just agree with your opinions, or they will be continually belittled by you. It makes no sense. And they are just your opinions. You have proven none of them as fact. Despite your best efforts. 

Do you really think you will convince anyone of your opinions by degrading them all the time? Or do you simply not care? Is this how you are IRL?

----------


## WhoKnows

> But they find that the strawman they created is easier to debate.


What Strawman exactly? Or are you going to just say that again without actually pointing out which argument is a Strawman? Like you have the last couple of times?

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> What Strawman exactly? Or are you going to just say that again without actually pointing out which argument is a Strawman? Like you have the last couple of times?


The strawman: "the ones who are opposed to what this military doctor did are opposed to her diagnosing and grounding the pilots"


That's the strawman. And it's not true and was not true from day one of this thread.

----------


## WhoKnows

> The strawman: "the ones who are opposed to what this military doctor did are opposed to her diagnosing and grounding the pilots"



Where did I say that exactly? 

You can come up with whatever you like in your mind, but if you claim that's what I said, you're going to have to back that up.

----------


## Wildrose

> I'm no ignorant twit. I have an opinion that's different than yours. That's all. 
> 
> I continue to baffled as to why you are here. You want everyone to just agree with your opinions, or they will be continually belittled by you. It makes no sense. And they are just your opinions. You have proven none of them as fact. Despite your best efforts. 
> 
> Do you really think you will convince anyone of your opinions by degrading them all the time? Or do you simply not care? Is this how you are IRL?


You are both ignorant and dishonest.




> _She is using her medical expertise to arrive at a conclusion. What expertise do you have to nullify this conclusion she made, evaluating her patients._





> Well, not according to her evaluation and management of her patients. Why do you feel you are in a position to argue this point?


Nobody challenged her qualification or ability to diagnose, treat, or ground her patents or any other conclusion she reached about them.

This is a nasty habit you repeat regularly.

----------


## phoenyx

> No matter your MOS your first duty is to uphold the oath you take when commissioned or enlisting.  She violated that oath and her career should be ended.


I don't see how she violated her oath. On the contrary, I believe she upheld it with shining colours. For those not familiar with the oath that army officers swear, I wrote about it here:
https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...=1#post2902486

----------

WhoKnows (11-07-2021)

----------


## Quark

> *I believe the COVID vaccine is a greater threat to soldiers health and  military readiness than the virus itself,*
> 
>  U.S. Army aerospace  physician Lt. Col. Theresa Long said Tuesday.
> 
> https://www.westernjournal.com/army-...e1fb79162c525b


But there is nothing wrong with taking an experimental bio-agent. So a few planes fall out of the sky so what. Yup the US American population in the next decade or so will be down to about 70 million people or so no doubt about it which is why we need to bring a zillion illegal immigrants NOW who are not mandated to be vaccinated.

----------

Big Bird (11-07-2021),WhoKnows (11-07-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> I don't see how she violated her oath. On the contrary, I believe she upheld it with shining colours. For those not familiar with the oath that army officers swear, I wrote about it here:
> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...=1#post2902486


I've already explained how she violated it. She went outside the chain of command and disseminated false information that would likely destroy morale and unit cohesion making the military less able to perform it's duties and endangering the whole country.,

----------


## Wildrose

> I don't see how it has to be a mutually exclusive proposition. I went and looked at the oath commissioned officers take. Here it is:
> 
> **
> I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.
> **
> 
> Source:
> https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html
> 
> ...


In this case they are mutually exclusive.

What you believe is irrelevant, the facts in evidence don't support that position and she far exceeded the duties of her position making such a declaration.

Once again.

How many military members have had serious, severe, debilitating of fatal reactions to the vaccine?

How many of them have had serious, severe, debilitating or fatal outcomes from Covid Infection?

----------


## Wildrose

> Why on earth do you think that a military officer shouldn't try to protect those in their care?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As I mentioned before:
> **
> Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?
> **
> ...


Following the law and enforcing it when it's broken is what prevents our soldiers from committing war crimes and atrocities.

The UCMJ is the binding force that allows us to have good order and discipline in an all volunteer force.

It is a crime to even issue an unlawful order much less to follow them.

----------


## phoenyx

> I've already explained how she violated it. She went outside the chain of command



Only after her chain of command failed the soldiers she was trying to protect. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what actually happened. Quoting from the article in the opening post:

**
Following the groundings, Long said she suffered harassment. After I reported to my command my concerns that in one morning I had to ground three out of three pilots due to vaccine injuries, the next day my patients were canceled, my charts were pulled for review, and I was told that I would not be seeing acute patients anymore, just healthy pilots there for their flight physical, she said.
**

Source:
Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots After They Develop Serious Chest Pain


Following her chain of command did -nothing- to help prevent yet more soldiers from being injured. So she did the right thing and became a whistleblower.





> and disseminated false information



I imagine you're just going off with your usual baseless allegations here, but if you have a single shred of evidence to defend your statement, by all means bring it forward.

----------

Quark (11-07-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> I don't see how it has to be a mutually exclusive proposition. I went and looked at the oath commissioned officers take. Here it is:
> 
> **I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.**
> 
> Source:
> https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html
> ...



I strongly disagree.




> What you believe is irrelevant,


When engaging in a dialogue with someone, only someone who is out of touch with reality would consider that the beliefs of the person they're conversing with is irrelevant. If you -truly- believed that, you wouldn't converse with me at all. 





> the facts in evidence don't support that position


What "facts" are you referring to? 





> and she far exceeded the duties of her position making such a declaration.



I agree with you there. She went above and beyond her duties. Thank goodness for that. If only there were more brave people like her.




> How many military members have had serious, severe, debilitating of fatal reactions to the vaccine?
> 
> How many of them have had serious, severe, debilitating or fatal outcomes from Covid Infection?


Both very good questions. Do you have the answers?

----------

Quark (11-07-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Why on earth do you think that a military officer shouldn't try to protect those in their care?
> 
> As I mentioned before:
> **
> Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?
> **
> ...



Not necessarily. At times, following the law and enforcing it can -create- war crimes and atrocities. Even Wikipedia, which I don't always think of as a good source, is aware of that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

In this case, I haven't seen evidence that this Flight Army Surgeon has broken any laws, but even if she has, doing what is morally right always trumps any law. Laws can be wrong and just as "just following orders" shouldn't be good enough for Nazi soldiers, so should it not be good enough for anyone who has a high standard of morality.

----------

Quark (11-07-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Only after her chain of command failed the soldiers she was trying to protect. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what actually happened. Quoting from the article in the opening post:
> 
> **
> Following the groundings, Long said she suffered harassment. “After I reported to my command my concerns that in one morning I had to ground three out of three pilots due to vaccine injuries, the next day my patients were canceled, my charts were pulled for review, and I was told that I would not be seeing acute patients anymore, just healthy pilots there for their flight physical,” she said.
> **
> 
> Source:
> Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots After They Develop Serious Chest Pain
> 
> ...


They aren't baseless and you keep failing to answer the questions.

Do I need post them again or will you just continue deflecting to avoid answering them?

----------


## Wildrose

> Not necessarily. At times, following the law and enforcing it can -create- war crimes and atrocities. Even Wikipedia, which I don't always think of as a good source, is aware of that:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
> 
> In this case, I haven't seen evidence that this Flight Army Surgeon has broken any laws, but even if she has, doing what is morally right always trumps any law. Laws can be wrong and just as "just following orders" shouldn't be good enough for Nazi soldiers, so should it not be good enough for anyone who has a high standard of morality.


She violated the UCMJ by going outside the chain of command disseminating false information that can seriously affect readiness and outright mutiny.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Only after her chain of command failed the soldiers she was trying to protect. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with what actually happened. Quoting from the article in the opening post:
> 
> **Following the groundings, Long said she suffered harassment. After I reported to my command my concerns that in one morning I had to ground three out of three pilots due to vaccine injuries, the next day my patients were canceled, my charts were pulled for review, and I was told that I would not be seeing acute patients anymore, just healthy pilots there for their flight physical, she said.
> **
> Source:
> Army Surgeon Grounds Several Newly Vaccinated Pilots After They Develop Serious Chest Pain
> ...



So you say, but you -still- haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your claim.





> and you keep failing to answer the questions.


You asked no questions in the post I was responding to here.

----------

WhoKnows (11-08-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Not necessarily. At times, following the law and enforcing it can -create- war crimes and atrocities. Even Wikipedia, which I don't always think of as a good source, is aware of that:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes
> 
> In this case, I haven't seen evidence that this Flight Army Surgeon has broken any laws, but even if she has, doing what is morally right always trumps any law. Laws can be wrong and just as "just following orders" shouldn't be good enough for Nazi soldiers, so should it not be good enough for anyone who has a high standard of morality.





> _Not necessarily. At times, following the law and enforcing it can -create- war crimes and atrocities. Even Wikipedia, which I don't always think of as a good source, is aware of that:_
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes


The available punishments for those crimes creates more of them for being committed.  We are trained starting in the first days of basic training what conduct constitues a war crime and it's beaten into our heads at every stage of training throughout our careers the cost of committing such crimes.

The same applies to the constant training that wither you commit the act yourself, if you order troops to commit them it is a crime and the troops in the lower ranks have it enforced every way possible that following an illegal order is a crime in and of itself.

----------


## Wildrose

> So you say, but you -still- haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You asked no questions in the post I was responding to here.


I've asked the same questions repeatedly and you still haven't bothered to answer.  We've had thousands of troops sickened and pulled from duty, even an entire aircraft carrier was pulled from operations because of a Covid outbreak that put several hundred of those serving on the ship off duty, a good many hospitalized and a few deaths.

How many vaccine related deaths and hospitalizations?  How many with permanent debilitating injury?  20% of all Covid patients develop Myocarditis and or Pericarditis which can leave them seriously and permanently debilitated.

----------


## Wildrose

> So you say, but you -still- haven't provided a single shred of evidence to support your claim.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You asked no questions in the post I was responding to here.


Educate yourself just a little for a change.

US Military Confirms Heart Inflammation After COVID Vaccine  Nia Pure Nature

----------


## Trinnity

> You don't even demonstrate the knowledge of a 1st year pre med student.


 


> No you ignorant twit, nobody here is arguing her diagnosis or grounding of the two pilots was in any way inappropriate.





> You are both ignorant and dishonest. Nobody challenged her qualification or ability to diagnose, treat, or ground her patents or any other conclusion she reached about them. This is a nasty habit you repeat regularly.





> They aren't baseless and you keep failing to answer the questions. Do I need post them again or will you just continue deflecting to avoid answering them?


  FAIR WARNING  

Wildrose is thread banned for harassing another member. Please do not respond to his posts.

----------

Big Bird (11-08-2021),phoenyx (11-07-2021),Quark (11-07-2021),WhoKnows (11-08-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> She violated the UCMJ by going outside the chain of command



I will assume that you are referring to the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice. I have not heard of her being accused of breaking any rules in any official correspondence as of yet, but if you can provide an outside source saying that this is so instead of just you, I will certainly take a look. In the end, though, it doesn't really matter- laws can be bad ones and if her speaking up in public regarding her beliefs on these Covid vaccines wasn't lawful, then I think most here would agree that the law is what needs correcting, not her. 





> disseminating false information


You keep on making that allegation, but up until now, you haven't provided a shred of evidence that it's true.


Edit:
I just saw Trinnity's post after I posted this, have asked her if it can stay up.

----------

Quark (11-07-2021)

----------


## Trinnity

It can stay, but folks *please, no more responses to Wildrose.* 

Thank you~

----------

Big Bird (11-08-2021),phoenyx (11-08-2021),WhoKnows (11-08-2021)

----------

