# Politics and News > Rants, Opinions, Observations >  Vip

## Taylor

i should be one. make VIP's great again.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-02-2018),Retiredat50 (04-02-2018)

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## GreenEyedLady

BWAhahahahaha! Thanks for the laugh! I needed that!

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FirstGenCanadian (04-03-2018),frankmusic (04-02-2018),Kodiak (04-02-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018)

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## Kodiak

It's for adults only.

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Big Dummy (04-02-2018),Conservative Libertarian (04-02-2018),frankmusic (04-02-2018),NuYawka (04-03-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018),Retiredat50 (04-02-2018),Sled Dog (04-02-2018)

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## Taylor

jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?

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## Matt

Right wing club? Really, there's not much going on there. Just folks grumbling about different things. Or, or, or, you can follow my career track in there. That's cool I guess....

Have you tried PM'ing Trinnity?

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## Taylor

> Right wing club? Really, there's not much going on there. Just folks grumbling about different things. Or, or, or, you can follow my career track in there. That's cool I guess....
> 
> Have you tried PM'ing Trinnity?


no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.

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## frankmusic

:Cool20: 

Just tell them you mean.*V*isually *I*mpaired *P*erson....and they'll feel sorry for you.

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## Matt

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


For what? No one cares. Hardly anyone ever gets banned here and if they are it's because they've done something seriously stupid. It's a very forgiving board.

You'll be OK even if folks disagree.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-02-2018)

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## Taylor

> For what? No one cares. Hardly anyone ever gets banned here and if they are it's because they've done something seriously stupid. It's a very forgiving board.
> 
> You'll be OK even if folks disagree.


i have a lot of infractions and one of the administrators pretty much despises me. im actually trying to be better though.

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## Conservative Libertarian

> i have a lot of infractions and one of the administrators pretty much despises me. im actually trying to be better though.


Liberal sites aren't nearly as tolerant of dissenting views. They usually ban anyone that isn't part of the group think.

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DeadEye (04-04-2018),frankmusic (04-02-2018),Kodiak (04-03-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018),Rickity Plumber (04-03-2018)

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## Matt

> Liberal sites aren't nearly as tolerant of dissenting views. They usually ban anyone that isn't part of the group think.


Yeah, you just described Reddit. You want to be attacked? Be a Trump supporter on that site. They'll try to tear your face off lol. 

I was shadow banned from /r/News for nothing. A sub that was supposed to discuss the news. They purged anyone who wasn't on the left wing bandwagon. 

Twoxchromosomes launched a bot script that insta-banned anyone who ever posted on The_Donald. It's not uncommon on Reddit. 

This forum has it so good that's it's hysterical people fear a ban here honestly.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018)

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## Retiredat50

> jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


I don't know what the criteria is for VIP, but if I had to guess it has a lot to do with consistent participation.  You seem to be here for a few days then gone for a week or two and then back again.  And, like  I said, I have no idea if that is the reason or not.

If we were voting, I would vote yes for you getting VIP.  I disagree with about 95% of what you say, but a political forum needs different views to be represented to be a good forum.

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Abbey (04-02-2018),Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),Kodiak (04-03-2018),Taylor (04-02-2018),usfan (04-04-2018)

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## Retiredat50

> Yeah, you just described Reddit. You want to be attacked? Be a Trump supporter on that site. They'll try to tear your face off lol. 
> 
> I was shadow banned from /r/News for nothing. A sub that was supposed to discuss the news. They purged anyone who wasn't on the left wing bandwagon. 
> 
> Twoxchromosomes launched a bot script that insta-banned anyone who ever posted on The_Donald. It's not uncommon on Reddit. 
> 
> This forum has it so good that's it's hysterical people fear a ban here honestly.


Reddit is a toxic cesspool.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),Matt (04-02-2018)

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## Thing 1

If someone thought I was important I would ask them to share their stash.

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nonsqtr (04-02-2018)

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## Thing 1

> Reddit is a toxic cesspool.


I'm afraid then to find out about sub-Reddit.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),Retiredat50 (04-02-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


You'll have to take it up with the VIP committee.

I could explain why I wouldn't consider you for the honor, but then you'd be unhappy.

Besides, its not my job.

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## Sled Dog

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


You don't break many rules.

You're just annoyingly and abysmally ignorant, and you have no intention of changing any of that.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),Kodiak (04-03-2018),memesofine (04-03-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> i have a lot of infractions and one of the administrators pretty much despises me. im actually trying to be better though.


Only one of them?

You're almost in!

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## Tennyson

What is VIP?

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## Retiredat50

> What is VIP?


Very Impatient Puppy!

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),Tennyson (04-03-2018)

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## Kris P Bacon

> Liberal sites aren't nearly as tolerant of dissenting views. They usually ban anyone that isn't part of the group think.


I got banned at PH within 70 post, reason given was I was a sock. I had no idea how anyone even made a sock, never figured it was that important to go thru the trouble.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),gamewell45 (04-16-2018),Rutabaga (04-03-2018)

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## NuYawka

> why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


Umm... because you're not a very important person?

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## patrickt

> i should be one. make VIP's great again.


VIPs is a restaurant here in Oaxaca. Actually, it's a chain with over 200 restaurants in Mexico.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018)

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## FirstGenCanadian

> i should be one. make VIP's great again.


While, it's not my decision, I think it's funny, your choice of words.  Should be, vs, want to, or, like to be.  Somehow, you believe you've already earned it.

Unlike Junior, Member, Senior, and Alumni, VIP stands alone.  

It's not by number of posts, nor reflected by political views.  

Anyway, it belongs to the powers that be.  And you'll be VIP, if it is right that they do so.

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memesofine (04-03-2018),Rickity Plumber (04-03-2018)

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## NuYawka

It's just another Millennial feeling entitled to something.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-03-2018),memesofine (04-03-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018),Thing 1 (04-03-2018)

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## Old Tex

> jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


Taylor I don't even know what VIP is. But I think your OK but just young. As time goes on who knows, maybe you will become more conservative. I think liberalism goes with thinking you know how the world works on some higher plain. Kind of like being gullible in believing what you hear but not researching what's below that. And that's not abnormal for the young. On the other hand someone like my youngest who is over 40 is still a liberal. Ah well, he was a backward child too.

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Rickity Plumber (04-03-2018)

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## Old Tex

Ok Taylor your a shoe in to be a VIP. I don't know what it means or how you become one but there has to be some low standards for it. I just saw that I'm one so it must be easy to qualify for.

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## NuYawka

> jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


V.I.P.'s know how to type.

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## NuYawka

.

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## Ginger

> For what? No one cares. Hardly anyone ever gets banned here and if they are it's because they've done something seriously stupid. It's a very forgiving board. You'll be OK even if folks disagree.


I can't recall any one of us ever talking about banning Taylor



> i have a lot of infractions and one of the administrators pretty much despises me. im actually trying to be better though.


9 reds and a bunch of yellows (warnings don't even count) and it' not a ban worthy situation. 




> If someone thought I was important I would ask them to share their stash.


Can I have some of YOUR stash?  :Toothy1: 




> V.I.P.'s know how to type.


That's it. Got to be.

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## HawkTheSlayer

> I can't recall any one of us ever talking about banning you.
> 
> 9 reds and a bunch of yellows (warnings don't even count) and it' not a ban worthy situation. 
> 
> Can I have some of YOUR stash? 
> 
> That's it. Got to be.


Do the reds give you more buzz than the yellows?

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Thing 1 (04-03-2018)

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## Sled Dog

> Umm... because you're not a very important person?


That left a mark.

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Rickity Plumber (04-03-2018)

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## frankmusic

:Thinking: 

_How about?........_


*Very Impressive Prevaricator*


_....historically earned, of course._

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Being Right 99.7% of the time is the first criteria for even being considered for VIP Status.  Being a mindless twit only gets you the right to be laughed at.

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## Ginger

> Do the reds give you more buzz than the yellows?


The reds are real infractions. The yellows are warnings and don't count.

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Tennyson (04-03-2018)

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## patrickt

> While, it's not my decision, I think it's funny, your choice of words.  Should be, vs, want to, or, like to be.  Somehow, you believe you've already earned it.
> 
> Unlike Junior, Member, Senior, and Alumni, VIP stands alone.  
> 
> It's not by number of posts, nor reflected by political views.  
> 
> Anyway, it belongs to the powers that be.  And you'll be VIP, if it is right that they do so.


I think VIP is a concept like artist and elite that is usually awarded by the bearer. Liberal elites, artists who mostly smoke dope, and pompous government functionaries who insist they are VIPs.

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## Ginger

I don't see any liberal VIPs.  :Dontknow:

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## Rutabaga

> I got banned at PH within 70 post, reason given was I was a sock. I had no idea how anyone even made a sock, never figured it was that important to go thru the trouble.


everyone there who joins right of center is automatically assigned the sock "alias"...hes their go-to sock name...[hes been here several times with socks and banned]

hes a bad sock, lots of holes and lost all the elastic at the top...

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## HawkTheSlayer

> I don't see any liberal VIPs.


The secret handshake must never be reaveled to the infidels. 
Gaurd your Batman decoder ring with your life, robin.

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Rutabaga (04-03-2018)

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## Ginger

> The secret handshake must never be reaveled to the infidels. 
> Gaurd your Batman decoder ring with your life, robin.


I swallowed it just to be sure.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-15-2018)

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## Tennyson

What is an infraction?

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## HawkTheSlayer

> What is an infraction?


You'll know if you get one.  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

You have to get one to find out what's in it.  :Headbang:

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2cent (04-03-2018),NuYawka (04-03-2018),Tennyson (04-03-2018),Thing 1 (04-03-2018)

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## Taylor

> Being Right 99.7% of the time is the first criteria for even being considered for VIP Status.  Being a mindless twit only gets you the right to be laughed at.


Thank you for the support. Your constructive criticism is valued.

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## Taylor

> I don't see any liberal VIPs.


you solved ur own problem! Alright alright. I accept.

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Conservative Libertarian (04-15-2018),Rickity Plumber (04-03-2018)

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## Taylor

> I can't recall any one of us ever talking about banning Taylor
> 9 reds and a bunch of yellows (warnings don't even count) and it' not a ban worthy situation.


So what ur saying is that I help maintain the integrity of the disciplinary system here by testing its limits

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## usfan

> i have a lot of infractions and one of the administrators pretty much despises me. im actually trying to be better though.


..welcome to the club.

That is not something that changes with vip.. nor does it mean you are suddenly with the 'in' crowd.  Cliques abound among humans, and especially in small message boards. It has been a constant here, too.

Better to learn early to stand alone.. on principle.. rather than want or need the confirmation from the crowd.

The mob is always ugly.. run from any mob, or you will be sucked in and damage your mind and soul.

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DeadEye (04-04-2018)

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## Thing 1

> You're just annoyingly and abysmally ignorant, and you have no intention of changing any of that.


There is a shorter word for all of that - liberal.

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## Thing 1

> ..
> The mob is always ugly.. run from any mob, or you will be sucked in and damage your mind and soul.


Like Antifa.

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usfan (04-04-2018)

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## Thing 1

> I think liberalism goes with thinking you know how the world works on some higher plain. Kind of like being gullible in believing what you hear but not researching what's below that. And that's not abnormal for the young.


Sounds a lot like David Hogg.

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## Thing 1

> V.I.P.'s know how to type.


No comment.

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NuYawka (04-03-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> It's just another Millennial feeling entitled to something.


*Wham ! Bam ! Thank You Ma'am !*

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NuYawka (04-03-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> V.I.P.'s know how to type.

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NuYawka (04-03-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> That left a mark.

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NuYawka (04-03-2018)

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## nonsqtr

> you solved ur own problem! Alright alright. I accept.


 :Smile: 

I'm pretty sure this must have something to do with Russian collusion.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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OldSchool (04-15-2018)

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## nonsqtr

> So what ur saying is that I help maintain the integrity of the disciplinary system here by testing its limits


Now you're being dangerously clever. 

Careful young one. We haven't authorized you for red team activities yet.

I suspect you'll find, that the security around here is actually pretty good. I've seen some surprisingly fast exposure of socks and such.

I might support your application with a little more original posting. (Not that my opinion means very much, I'm just a participant like you and i don't make the rules). You seem intelligent and articulate, and on that basis alone you're worth debating. I would rather hear your original thoughts though, than parroting of talking points and such.

Generally speaking, it's hard to take issue with a nice person, which makes debating with nice liberals especially difficult, and it's probably something I need more practice with, because some of today's liberal logic is really quite dangerous.

But if we don't talk to any liberals, how are we going to tell them that? It would be best if I could communicate the logic "before" I tell you how full of shit the ideas are. lol  :Wink:

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## usfan

I am offended by the deluge of insults, demeaning quips, and ridicule on display here.  Sure, Tay is a liberal.  So what.  She also deserves a modicum of respect, and to be treated with civility.

I have no problem if she was dishing out crap, and you guys dish it back, but the hateful things said here were unprovoked.

Conservatives are supposed to be rational, fact oriented, and promote civility.  This is a demeaning dogpile for no reason. 

You wonder why leftists don't want to debate you?  Its not because your arguments are so compelling, it is because you are worse than a leftist, in your unbridled disdain for those you disagree with.

Ok, fine.  You can attack me, too, in this.  But you know I'm right.

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Taylor (04-04-2018),Tennyson (04-04-2018)

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## nonsqtr

> I am offended by the deluge of insults, demeaning quips, and ridicule on display here.  Sure, Tay is a liberal.  So what.  She also deserves a modicum of respect, and to be treated with civility.
> 
> I have no problem if she was dishing out crap, and you guys dish it back, but the hateful things said here were unprovoked.
> 
> Conservatives are supposed to be rational, fact oriented, and promote civility.  This is a demeaning dogpile for no reason. 
> 
> You wonder why leftists don't want to debate you?  Its not because your arguments are so compelling, it is because you are worse than a leftist, in your unbridled disdain for those you disagree with.
> 
> Ok, fine.  You can attack me, too, in this.  But you know I'm right.


Not the issue.

BOUNDARIES are the issue.

The trampling thereof, is the issue.

When someone tramples on your boundary, you're not going to engage in a logical discussion, you're going to go after the individual.

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## usfan

> Not the issue.
> 
> BOUNDARIES are the issue.
> 
> The trampling thereof, is the issue.
> 
> When someone tramples on your boundary, you're not going to engage in a logical discussion, you're going to go after the individual.


That is the cultural change, or transformation that has occurred in the last few decades.  Everything is personal.  If someone disagrees with me, it warrants a personal attack, not a reasoned rebuttal.

Ideas, not personalities, should be the focus in a civil, rational society. Ad hom should just be the last resort, in a losing debate.

*Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.* ~Eleanor Roosevelt

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## MrMike

> i should be one. make VIP's great again.


Heck, it doesn't bother me if you do VIP.  I'm just glad you got rid of those bangs.

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## MrMike

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


I don't think so.  You don't really do anything that merits a ban.  Hang in there, I'll be smiling the day you finally wake up and realize you've become a conservative (it will happen).

Have a nice day!

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## nonsqtr

> That is the cultural change, or transformation that has occurred in the last few decades.  Everything is personal.  If someone disagrees with me, it warrants a personal attack, not a reasoned rebuttal.
> 
> Ideas, not personalities, should be the focus in a civil, rational society. Ad hom should just be the last resort, in a losing debate.
> 
> *Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.* ~Eleanor Roosevelt


 @usfan, you seem like a good and smart person.

But you should be aware, that we the people are not now engaged in a debate.

We are engaged in a war.

There has been very little shooting so far, but make no mistake, it's a war.

Generally speaking, Wars are not conducive to reasoned debate. Wars are about boundaries, not logic.

An example of a political boundary, for me, would be asshole liberals trying to put grown men into my 10 year old daughter's bathroom.

That is an absolute boundary for me, I simply will not allow that. Law or no law, I don't care.

When we get enough of these in justices institutionalized into the law, like we have now, we have a big major problem. Our law is entirely schizophrenic at this point, to the point where not even the judges can figure out what it means. That is a bad situation, and it probably cannot be corrected by reasoned logical and calm debate.

I am probably relatively thick-skinned when it comes to things like insults, personal, political, or otherwise. My boundaries have more to do with my family, my friends, and my personal property, and possibly by extension their personal property. When the thieves are at your door stealing your stuff, you're not going to stop to have a logical debate with them. And this is the way a lot of people feel right now, their boundaries are being trampled left and right. A lot of this traces back to complete and miserable failure on the part of our elected representatives, and the lot of it also traces directly back to us for being lazy and complacent when it comes to politics.

I'm just saying, if you're expecting reasoned debate in these circumstances, you'll probably be disappointed. People need to identify you as reasonable FIRST, before they're going to take their precious time to debate with you. Otherwise you're just another potential trampler of boundaries, and you need to be dealt with quickly and efficiently, until such time as it can be determined with reasonable confidence that you're not a threat.

Obviously I hope, "you" is generic in most of this post. I don't know you very well so far, what I know so far is you like to attack evolution, and since I'm a biologist that kind of thing attracts my attention. I'm a big proponent of scientific progress, I do not like it or appreciate it when science is impeded by politics, religion, or any other unrelated constructs.

As a matter of fact, with only a very few exceptions, I cannot recall that politicians have done very much to benefit humankind. On the other hand, the list of scientists that have improved our lot is very long indeed. So I don't like science being threatened, I am well familiar with the history, like Giordano Bruno and such. I'm also well aware of the power of stupid people in numbers, and when someone starts denigrating science I begin from the assumption that they don't have a brain.

Sorry... I'm trying to tell you the truth. This is just my reality. Probably as we get to know each other better, I will come to understand your vocabulary and your meaning a little better too. But you probably won't get my maximal niceness until I've fully determined you're not a black hat. In my experience, people who denigrate the scientific method generally have agendas, usually political agendas, and usually eventually I determine that there's a black hat in play.

I don't consider it necessary to defend science, science is good enough to defend itself. Rather it is conveniently easy to point out flaws in logic, and fundamental assumptions that lead to contradictory logical outcomes. Duality is one such a sample, it is logically nonsensical, and I can prove it in seconds. Logically, with math and symbols. And yet there are thousands upon thousands of people who continue to insist that it must be the truth and there can't be any other truth. Some people insist the Bible is complete and final too. But I'm a scientist. Nothing is complete and final for me. NOTHING. I've lived too long to believe there's any sanctuary in this world. There are no safe spaces here, such would be merely liberal delusions.  :Smile: 

But I can tell you, I'm not your enemy. And you won't be mine either, as long as you can respect my boundaries. So the first thing I have to do, is communicate to you what those boundaries are, and once you know I will see whether you're willing to respect them. Most forms of debate do not represent a boundary for me, but policies like putting grown men into my daughter's bathroom most certainly do, and in a good World those policies would be derived from debate and discussion, but this is not a good world. This is the world where the assholes in DC passed the fucking bills without even looking at them. And unfortunately, a lot of that frantic type Behavior rubs off on the rest of us too, at least on those of us who keep up with the circus on the hill.

Personalities are largely irrelevant. I don't know you well enough to know your personality, I only know you well enough to read your words. Therefore I don't have the filter to morph the English language, when I read an insult I interpret it as an insult.

The point being I suppose, that insults are usually traded freely in debates, they are accepted in Spirit by both sides. But such is not the case in Wars. In Wars, insults are usually escalated.

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## JustPassinThru

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


Nobody's trying to ban you.  A lot of posters don't think much of you, and for various reasons - some for your views; and some for...other reasons.  I'm not posting this to insult you.

I've had more temp-bans than you have.

I think it's more a matter of a probable poor fit with the inner core group.  The Bridge Club would not have a fun time at a Rave; and ravers wouldn't much enjoy a night of bridge.  That's about the best way I can put it.

You get guff because to many of us, your views seem SO over-the-top.  It's not all your fault, but it IS a fault.  You don't know, have never been taught, the fundamentals of the American Experiment in self-government - and like uninformed people in end-times in all civilizations, you seem simply to have the expectation of government..."WHERE'S MINE?"

You are young - although not that young; early 20s is old enough to have broadened your horizons.  What are you, 24?  When my ex was 25, she started trying to instruct me on the errors of my political views; and while it did take years, she was right.

And she wasn't overly educated, either.  She wasn't a PoliSci major or a lawyer - she dropped out of college, as I did.  She just had the basic fundamental training, both in a small school in the early 1970s, and at home, where her father was...where I am, now.  At least in terms of views - he was FAR more successful than I'll ever be.

So, I'd have to say that your seeming self-absorbtion and your seeming resistance to learning, to growing...is off-putting.

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Dr. Felix Birdbiter (04-04-2018)

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

Excellent post.

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## Taylor

> Nobody's trying to ban you.  A lot of posters don't think much of you, and for various reasons - some for your views; and some for...other reasons.  I'm not posting this to insult you.
> 
> I've had more temp-bans than you have.
> 
> I think it's more a matter of a probable poor fit with the inner core group.  The Bridge Club would not have a fun time at a Rave; and ravers wouldn't much enjoy a night of bridge.  That's about the best way I can put it.
> 
> You get guff because to many of us, your views seem SO over-the-top.  It's not all your fault, but it IS a fault.  You don't know, have never been taught, the fundamentals of the American Experiment in self-government - and like uninformed people in end-times in all civilizations, you seem simply to have the expectation of government..."WHERE'S MINE?"
> 
> You are young - although not that young; early 20s is old enough to have broadened your horizons.  What are you, 24?  When my ex was 25, she started trying to instruct me on the errors of my political views; and while it did take years, she was right.
> ...


The rave vs bridge comparisons makes sense. I can see that. The rest was a bit harsh but I’ll accept the feedback. I don’t think I’m self absorbed or over the top or resistant to learning but I understand perception can be different too. I guess I will try harder.

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potlatch (04-04-2018),Thing 1 (04-04-2018)

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## Thing 1

I am a member of a selective group that you can only become part of by being invited by the members. I didn't actively seek it but after I was selected I could look back and see that I did the things that qualify one for that honor.  When I was chosen no one was more surprised then myself. 

I don't know what the criteria is for this VIP club, @Taylor but my advice is to be a positive contributor to the forum and don't ask to join. In something like this the squeaky wheel does not get the grease, it is the unassuming valve that does its job day in and day out that is recognized when it least expects it.

 Now go outside and say thank you to the camshaft in your car's engine.

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Daily Bread (04-04-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-04-2018),nonsqtr (04-05-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> The rave vs bridge comparisons makes sense. I can see that. The rest was a bit harsh but I’ll accept the feedback. I don’t think I’m self absorbed or over the top or resistant to learning but I understand perception can be different too. I guess I will try harder.


 @Taylor , You just keep being yourself. You are fine the way you are. However, with age comes wisdom and I do not mean that you are not smart. I think that wisdom is much different than being a scholar. 

People do not even mature until they reach 40-ish. Yeah, yeah, every 25 yr old thinks they are grown up and adults but it is a medical fact that a 20 yr old's brain is still developing. 

I like you the way you are. Many here think the same thing. But just like in real life, a person may get along with some of the people and may butt heads with others. 

We give you the business because we actually want you to become this matured person who doesn't wear pussy hats and boasts "fuck Trump" at every chance. 

Just keep being yourself.

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Daily Bread (04-04-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-04-2018),nonsqtr (04-05-2018)

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## Daily Bread

> @Taylor , You just keep being yourself. You are fine the way you are. However, with age comes wisdom and I do not mean that you are not smart. I think that wisdom is much different than being a scholar. 
> 
> People do not even mature until they reach 40-ish. Yeah, yeah, every 25 yr old thinks they are grown up and adults but it is a medical fact that a 20 yr old's brain is still developing. 
> 
> I like you the way you are. Many here think the same thing. But just like in real life, a person may get along with some of the people and may butt heads with others. 
> 
> We give you the business because we actually want you to become this matured person who doesn't wear pussy hats and boasts "fuck Trump" at every chance. 
> 
> Just keep being yourself.


I agree with you @Rickity Plumber - innocence is an attribute that we lose when reality walks in the door . 
I hope Tay stays innocent and can stay that way when reality comes knocking at  the door - both are good and a part of life .

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Rickity Plumber (04-04-2018)

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

I would be the first to fight against banning Taylor.  I give her hell and am extremely rude to her but that is because I think she is worth salvaging.  She certainly isn't stupid, but completely uninformed about many subjects.

----------

Daily Bread (04-04-2018)

----------


## usfan

> @usfan, you seem like a good and smart person.


My character or personality are irrelevant, in a written debate.  See Eleanor Roosevelt quote above. Ideas, not personalities,  are what intelligent minds discuss.




> But you should be aware, that we the people are not now engaged in a debate.
> 
> We are engaged in a war.


Not me. This is words on a screen.  It is a debate. The IDEAS are what we promote or defend, as they provide the motivation for action,  later.




> There has been very little shooting so far, but make no mistake, it's a war.
> 
> Generally speaking, Wars are not conducive to reasoned debate. Wars are about boundaries, not logic.
> 
> An example of a political boundary, for me, would be asshole liberals trying to put grown men into my 10 year old daughter's bathroom.
> 
> That is an absolute boundary for me, I simply will not allow that. Law or no law, I don't care.
> 
> When we get enough of these in justices institutionalized into the law, like we have now, we have a big major problem. Our law is entirely schizophrenic at this point, to the point where not even the judges can figure out what it means. That is a bad situation, and it probably cannot be corrected by reasoned logical and calm debate.


If we were at war, we would dispense with any words. I would shoot at you or @Taylor without warning or pretense, and you would too. But i am not at war with you, @Taylor, or anyone here. You are my countrymen, & my goal is to warn of impending danger, and confront it, as an alpha male does, in any society. 




> I am probably relatively thick-skinned when it comes to things like insults, personal, political, or otherwise. My boundaries have more to do with my family, my friends, and my personal property, and possibly by extension their personal property. When the thieves are at your door stealing your stuff, you're not going to stop to have a logical debate with them. And this is the way a lot of people feel right now, their boundaries are being trampled left and right. A lot of this traces back to complete and miserable failure on the part of our elected representatives, and the lot of it also traces directly back to us for being lazy and complacent when it comes to politics.
> 
> I'm just saying, if you're expecting reasoned debate in these circumstances, you'll probably be disappointed. People need to identify you as reasonable FIRST, before they're going to take their precious time to debate with you. Otherwise you're just another potential trampler of boundaries, and you need to be dealt with quickly and efficiently, until such time as it can be determined with reasonable confidence that you're not a threat.


Ad hom noted, but dismissed.  I bring reasoned debate, and i expect it in return. If i say something wrong, refute it.  But 'you're stupid!' is not a rational rebuttal.




> Obviously I hope, "you" is generic in most of this post. I don't know you very well so far, what I know so far is you like to attack evolution, and since I'm a biologist that kind of thing attracts my attention. I'm a big proponent of scientific progress, I do not like it or appreciate it when science is impeded by politics, religion, or any other unrelated constructs.
> 
> As a matter of fact, with only a very few exceptions, I cannot recall that politicians have done very much to benefit humankind. On the other hand, the list of scientists that have improved our lot is very long indeed. So I don't like science being threatened, I am well familiar with the history, like Giordano Bruno and such. I'm also well aware of the power of stupid people in numbers, and when someone starts denigrating science I begin from the assumption that they don't have a brain.


Phony narrative. I do not attack science, but religious bigotry, masquerading as science. I am fully capable and willing to debate the SCIENCE of origins, but the militant evolutionists here will not let a rational, scientific discussion take place.

Why the personal jab here, in a discussion about @Taylor?  Is your psyche that bruised, that you have to try and revise the reality of our 'debates', in any and all unrelated threads?
 :Dontknow: 



> Sorry... I'm trying to tell you the truth. This is just my reality. Probably as we get to know each other better, I will come to understand your vocabulary and your meaning a little better too. But you probably won't get my maximal niceness until I've fully determined you're not a black hat. In my experience, people who denigrate the scientific method generally have agendas, usually political agendas, and usually eventually I determine that there's a black hat in play.


I wear many hats, and they all make me look like John Wayne. If you can dispense with the petty sniping, and focus on the CONTENT of the discussion, we would get along fine. But if every reply is laced with ad hominem,  whether a point is interspersed in there or not, it rubs me the wrong way, Pilgrim.
 :Smiley Char092: 




> I don't consider it necessary to defend science, science is good enough to defend itself. Rather it is conveniently easy to point out flaws in logic, and fundamental assumptions that lead to contradictory logical outcomes. Duality is one such a sample, it is logically nonsensical, and I can prove it in seconds. Logically, with math and symbols. And yet there are thousands upon thousands of people who continue to insist that it must be the truth and there can't be any other truth. Some people insist the Bible is complete and final too. But I'm a scientist. Nothing is complete and final for me. NOTHING. I've lived too long to believe there's any sanctuary in this world. There are no safe spaces here, such would be merely liberal delusions.


Then argue science in a scientific discussion,  and philosophy in a philosophical discussion. And leave personal jabs and snark out of them. How does ad hom contribute to intelligent discussion?  It does not. It only kills it.




> But I can tell you, I'm not your enemy. And you won't be mine either, as long as you can respect my boundaries. So the first thing I have to do, is communicate to you what those boundaries are, and once you know I will see whether you're willing to respect them. Most forms of debate do not represent a boundary for me, but policies like putting grown men into my daughter's bathroom most certainly do, and in a good World those policies would be derived from debate and discussion, but this is not a good world. This is the world where the assholes in DC passed the fucking bills without even looking at them. And unfortunately, a lot of that frantic type Behavior rubs off on the rest of us too, at least on those of us who keep up with the circus on the hill.


It seems to me that you think i am your enemy, and this IS a war, not a debate.  I can follow the topic, and do. But i do not take personal shots with passivity. These are words on a screen, with NO justification for the hysterical, emotional responses that take place when somebody's sacred cows are scrutinized.




> Personalities are largely irrelevant. I don't know you well enough to know your personality, I only know you well enough to read your words. Therefore I don't have the filter to morph the English language, when I read an insult I interpret it as an insult.
> 
> The point being I suppose, that insults are usually traded freely in debates, they are accepted in Spirit by both sides. But such is not the case in Wars. In Wars, insults are usually escalated.


Then just deal with the words, instead of trying to read some diabolical motivation.

Even in a thread about someone else, you try to make this about me.  This is such a common leftist tactic, to poison the well, and deflect from whatever topic is at hand.  I have seen this play out countless times, over the years,  usually in liberal echo chambers. I am usually banned before any more of my 'toxic!' threads infect the faithful, and cause them to doubt their indoctrination.

I bring reasonable, intelligent, historical, eloquent debate to this forum, and have for many years. I have and still do, respond with civility and reason toward anarchists, atheists, fundamentalists, islamists, racists, evolutionists, communists, liberals, progressives, and anyone.. i demean no one, in any discussion, unless attacked first.  If that happens repeatedly, i tire of it and return fire, as i have with you and your atheist cronies, here.  If it escalates,  i invite you to the mosh pit, so the public threads are not disrupted.

Why you want to air your dirty laundry here is a mystery to me...    :Dontknow:

----------


## Ginger

> So what ur saying is that I help maintain the integrity of the disciplinary system here by testing its limits


Personally, I like you.

----------

Daily Bread (04-04-2018),potlatch (04-04-2018)

----------


## DeadEye

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


So, you post a thread like this to stay under their radar?   :Thinking:

----------

JustPassinThru (04-04-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-04-2018),NuYawka (04-05-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> So, you post a thread like this to stay under their radar?


im not breaking any rules

----------


## JustPassinThru

> im not breaking any rules


What you have there...is DEADPAN IRONY.

I guess kids don't learn it now.  Maybe kids a hundred years ago, didn't learn it.  But I was lucky - I grew up in the Golden Age of Television.  Red Skelton; and then Laugh-In; and Johnny Carson at his best.

It cultivated a sophisticated sense of humor in kids.  Now, I was in high school when George Carlin took off; and like all kids, I was snickering at the way he tossed off his dirty words and vulgar stories.  But I also learned that the best comics, with the cerebral humor, could do it without a single blue line.

Not so much today.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> im not breaking any rules


Just the rule of diminishing returns.  If you were breaking rules what rule would you be breaking?

----------


## DeadEye

> im not breaking any rules


Duh, no one said you were breaking any rules

----------

NuYawka (04-05-2018)

----------


## Canadianeye

Taylor simply does not understand the frustration, of a conserative person. She has no idea, that we are, without a doubt, absolutely correct on what has been happening, and what is happening.

Not a clue, and the reason she does not have a clue is because those who have indoctrinated her, did a good job at it, plain and simple. That doesn't even mean Taylor is mentally incapable of learning, it is just that the indoctrination is deep enough that she really does not want to go there.

It is a huge shift. It is stepping away from the also indoctrinated herd...and that is not easy.

Facts do not matter when you are dealing with this. Staying aligned with herd is what matters to those indoctrinated.

You can list all the States that have been under Democrat complete dominance for 60 years straight, and they are the worst cities imaginable, consistenly. That is met with "but there was a Republican Governor" from 2012- 2018....as if that would matter with everything else being controlled by Dems for 6 decades. It is a supplied statement from those who want to keep the indoctrinated herd member(s) to keep them from seeing a certain reality, of fact and common sense.

They have their supplied sound byte, (which means nothing)...but it is enough to satisfy them, to avoid the factual truths of the situations caused by a political ideology that is extremely destructive, whose only power(s) are control of the narrative by the leftist MSMs, the education system...and celebrity/entertainment industries.

Those people fighting the good fight, being Conservatives, suffer the frustration of NOT having those 3 titanic societal tools, yet still manage to always keep it close, or win elections...and, have  the exhaustion of repeating things, when offering the reality to those who are indoctrinated.

It is frustrating, because they seem to be willfully blind to reality. That is almost inconceivable to most of us Conservatives, who deal in reality, almost naturally.

Reality is tough, and indoctrination is tough...to break.

----------

FirstGenCanadian (04-04-2018),Hillofbeans (04-04-2018),JustPassinThru (04-04-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-04-2018),usfan (04-04-2018)

----------


## Daily Bread

You see Taylor, the majority of us hard nose Nazi deplorable right wing nuts like you . So maybe we're not the ogres your universe has made us out to be . Would we get the same slack from leftist ? I doubt it . We'll fight for your rights to disagree with us and die for those rights - Will your friends do that for us ? Answer honestly

----------


## usfan

> What you have there...is DEADPAN IRONY.
> 
> I guess kids don't learn it now.  Maybe kids a hundred years ago, didn't learn it.  But I was lucky - I grew up in the Golden Age of Television.  Red Skelton; and then Laugh-In; and Johnny Carson at his best.
> 
> It cultivated a *sophisticated sense of humor* in kids.  Now, I was in high school when George Carlin took off; and like all kids, I was snickering at the way he tossed off his dirty words and vulgar stories.  But I also learned that the best comics, with the cerebral humor, could do it without a single blue line.
> Not so much today.





 :Laughing7:

----------


## usfan

> Taylor simply does not understand the frustration, of a conserative person. She has no idea, that we are, without a doubt, absolutely correct on what has been happening, and what is happening.
> 
> Not a clue, and the reason she does not have a clue is because those who have indoctrinated her, did a good job at it, plain and simple. That doesn't even mean Taylor is mentally incapable of learning, it is just that the indoctrination is deep enough that she really does not want to go there.
> 
> It is a huge shift. It is stepping away from the also indoctrinated herd...and that is not easy.
> 
> Facts do not matter when you are dealing with this. Staying aligned with herd is what matters to those indoctrinated.
> 
> You can list all the States that have been under Democrat complete dominance for 60 years straight, and they are the worst cities imaginable, consistenly. That is met with "but there was a Republican Governor" from 2012- 2018....as if that would matter with everything else being controlled by Dems for 6 decades. It is a supplied statement from those who want to keep the indoctrinated herd member(s) to keep them from seeing a certain reality, of fact and common sense.
> ...


I completely agree with this analysis of the decline of America, and western civilization in general.  but i do not see the indoctrinees as enemies, just temporarily deluded.. until they become more aware... aka, get older.

Here are 2 famous sayings, hundreds of years old, that have had variations for the last couple of centuries:

_He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind._ ~Anselme Polycarpe Batbie

'républicain' is synonymous with 'liberal', now, and this same phrase has been turned from various people to include socialists.

_A man who has not been a socialist before 25 has no heart. If he remains one after 25 he has no head._King Oscar II of Sweden

..it seems to be a common perception, over the last few centuries..

But that said, i still see no reason to bully & insult someone like @Taylor, or other liberals who come here to debate, argue, bicker, or whatever, until they out themselves.  And we should give them the benefit of the doubt, when debating things, that they are serious & really believe what they say.  They have years of indoctrination to get over, and some sympathy & compassion goes a long ways.

That is not to say that if rude, incivil, boorish liberals come here with a chip on their shoulder, they should not be given the same treatment in return.  I just don't like seeing it as the default reply.  ..perhaps because i have gotten that treatment before, makes me sympathetic to the  recipient of the insulting dogpiles.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> So what ur saying is that I help maintain the integrity of the disciplinary system here by testing its limits


not at all.

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2cent (04-05-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> not at all.


i was joking

----------


## Calypso Jones

> That is the cultural change, or transformation that has occurred in the last few decades.  Everything is personal.  If someone disagrees with me, it warrants a personal attack, not a reasoned rebuttal.
> 
> Ideas, not personalities, should be the focus in a civil, rational society. Ad hom should just be the last resort, in a losing debate.
> 
> *Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.* ~Eleanor Roosevelt


 Do  you know why Eleanor said that?  Because she hated Alice Roosevelt.   She was witty.  she was prettier than Eleanor and Eleanor hated alice's guts.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> Do  you know why Eleanor said that?  Because she hated Alice Roosevelt.   She was witty.  she was prettier than Eleanor and Eleanor hated alice's guts.


Everyone was prettier  than Eleanor

----------


## Canadianeye

> I completely agree with this analysis of the decline of America, and western civilization in general.  but i do not see the indoctrinees as enemies, just temporarily deluded.. until they become more aware... aka, get older.
> 
> Here are 2 famous sayings, hundreds of years old, that have had variations for the last couple of centuries:
> 
> “_He who is not a républicain at twenty compels one to doubt the generosity of his heart; but he who, after thirty, persists, compels one to doubt the soundness of his mind.”_ ~Anselme Polycarpe Batbie
> 
> 'républicain' is synonymous with 'liberal', now, and this same phrase has been turned from various people to include socialists.
> 
> _A man who has not been a socialist before 25 has no heart. If he remains one after 25 he has no head._—King Oscar II of Sweden
> ...


I thought I was being gentle tbh. You obviously don't know my world, and how could you really.

I speak, daily, with an Arab says women should be buried waste high, and then stoned to death. He gestures wildly, naming all the other muslims in the area we both know, as if calling them to the stoning...and that they would all come. He talks about whites and blacks with equal distain. Asians too. He drops the "N" bomb, at the top of lungs about every 5 minutes in these "debates".

Allah this, Jews are our cousins (then he laughs diabolically about wanting them all destroyed)

Etc.

He gets back from me Allah is god of sand, shit and dirt. That is what he rules. Mental weaklings...the inferior of whites. We gave them oil, because he and his dung beetle brethen were to stupid to dig it up from the ground themselves. I tell him why do you come to our country with your sharia shit. Go back, no fucking country wants your 7th century savagery, nor any possible breeding with underdeveloped brains. I laugh at his god to his face, and dare him to bring it on.

He lowers his voice when anyone comes around...and I don't. He learns and understands then, I am not afraid, as he is...and I tell him that to his face, because Allah and his followers are all cowards.

I do this when there are 5 of his asshole arabs friends around, and to any of them who want to dance, and talk about stoning women and erasing the Jews...every day.

I was being nice to Taylor. I wasn't bullying Taylor. I kind of like Taylor, despite the naivety of her youth.

----------

NORAD (04-05-2018),usfan (04-05-2018)

----------


## nonsqtr

> My character or personality are irrelevant, in a written debate.  See Eleanor Roosevelt quote above. Ideas, not personalities,  are what intelligent minds discuss.
> 
> 
> Not me. This is words on a screen.  It is a debate. The IDEAS are what we promote or defend, as they provide the motivation for action,  later.
> 
> 
> If we were at war, we would dispense with any words. I would shoot at you or @Taylor without warning or pretense, and you would too. But i am not at war with you, @Taylor, or anyone here. You are my countrymen, & my goal is to warn of impending danger, and confront it, as an alpha male does, in any society. 
> 
> 
> ...


Word to @usfan - you seem to be under the mistaken misperception that any of this is about you. Not sure why that is, you seem to take things personally. And if that makes you like the old lady who gets offended by my blue jeans, that means I really don't care if you're offended. I've never insulted you personally, however I have taken great issue with your idiotic statements about science. Excuse me for saying so yet again, but You Don't Know Jack about science, you need to read more before you go spouting off your mouth about stuff you know nothing about. Okay? Yes, it's an ad hominem. Deal with it. You deserve it. You sound like a God damn liberal.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Hey, sorry if I sound arrogant, but I know when I'm not talking to a scientist, and you're not a scientist. Why don't you stop masquerading as one. Why don't you stop pretending you know anything about science or the scientific method. You have been presented Time After Time with countless examples of valid science, and your best response has been that's not science. On that basis, I find it impossible to have a conversation with you about science.

You don't talk about science, you talk about ad hominems. Like it or not, I'm not debating on idea, I'm debating a personality, and so are you.

How come there's so many fucking people that are trying to tell me what the hell I'm supposed to perceive and believe? If that's the best you got all y'all can go straight to hell. That's clear enough, isn't it?

If you want to talk science, then talk science. If you want to talk about Taylor, then talk about Taylor. But if I hear one more word about a fucking ad hominem you're going on the ignore list. I've had just about enough of the superiority bit, and the whole business of people pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. Or people who claim they're talking about science and and then get thin-skinned when their bullshit is exposed. Really, you're really starting to piss me off now. If you don't want to fight a war, then don't. Stop making everything personal. No one's called you an asshole yet, have they? Attacking your ideas is not a personal attack when your ideas suck. You're accusing me of using ad hominems in the same breath that you say I'm airing dirty laundry. Stop with the hypocrisy, stop with the bullshit. Just stop. I will not debate you on the issue of science, you do not know enough to debate me on the issue of science. If you want to talk about Taylor, let's do that. If you want to talk about anything else I'll see you in the mosh pit.

----------

usfan (04-06-2018)

----------


## NuYawka



----------

NORAD (04-05-2018)

----------


## NuYawka

> I am offended...







> Everything is personal.


By being "offended", you made it personal.

You are... personally offended.

----------

NORAD (04-05-2018)

----------


## usfan

> By being "offended", you made it personal.
> 
> You are... personally offended.


Good distortions.. clips out of context, to promote a phony narrative.. typical leftist tactic...   :Rolleyes20: 

Why don't you take this crap to the mosh pit, where i can reply to you in kind?  ..instead of sniping in public threads,  hiding behind women's skirts?

----------


## usfan

> Word to @usfan - you seem to be under the mistaken misperception that any of this is about you. Not sure why that is, you seem to take things personally. And if that makes you like the old lady who gets offended by my blue jeans, that means I really don't care if you're offended. I've never insulted you personally, however I have taken great issue with your idiotic statements about science. Excuse me for saying so yet again, but You Don't Know Jack about science, you need to read more before you go spouting off your mouth about stuff you know nothing about. Okay? Yes, it's an ad hominem. Deal with it. You deserve it. You sound like a God damn liberal. 
> 
> Hey, sorry if I sound arrogant, but I know when I'm not talking to a scientist, and you're not a scientist. Why don't you stop masquerading as one. Why don't you stop pretending you know anything about science or the scientific method. You have been presented Time After Time with countless examples of valid science, and your best response has been that's not science. On that basis, I find it impossible to have a conversation with you about science.
> 
> You don't talk about science, you talk about ad hominems. Like it or not, I'm not debating on idea, I'm debating a personality, and so are you.
> 
> How come there's so many fucking people that are trying to tell me what the hell I'm supposed to perceive and believe? If that's the best you got all y'all can go straight to hell. That's clear enough, isn't it?
> 
> If you want to talk science, then talk science. If you want to talk about Taylor, then talk about Taylor. But if I hear one more word about a fucking ad hominem you're going on the ignore list. I've had just about enough of the superiority bit, and the whole business of people pissing on my leg and telling me it's raining. Or people who claim they're talking about science and and then get thin-skinned when their bullshit is exposed. Really, you're really starting to piss me off now. If you don't want to fight a war, then don't. Stop making everything personal. No one's called you an asshole yet, have they? Attacking your ideas is not a personal attack when your ideas suck. You're accusing me of using ad hominems in the same breath that you say I'm airing dirty laundry. Stop with the hypocrisy, stop with the bullshit. Just stop. I will not debate you on the issue of science, you do not know enough to debate me on the issue of science. If you want to talk about Taylor, let's do that. If you want to talk about anything else *I'll see you in the mosh pit*.


Good. Its about time.

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

I am offended personally

----------


## NuYawka

> Good distortions.. clips out of context, to promote a phony narrative.. typical leftist tactic...  
> 
> Why don't you take this crap to the mosh pit, where i can reply to you in kind?  ..instead of sniping in public threads,  hiding behind women's skirts?


I've noticed that lately you've become the Forum Tough Guy, daring other members to fight with you.

I used to have respect for you, but you've changed recently.

----------



----------


## usfan

> I've noticed that lately you've become the Forum Tough Guy, daring other members to fight with you.
> 
> I used to have respect for you, but you've changed recently.


 :Jackoff: 

Your disdain for me is obvious, but i have no idea why you want to threadshit in the whole forum to express it.  Take it to the mosh pit, and quit being a rude, inconsiderate jerk.

----------


## usfan

You see, @Taylor?  You're not the only one to receive hateful, insulting responses..  i have a gaggle of groupies that follow me around, heckling in any thread i post in.  They are ALWAYS intensely personal, insulting,  demeaning, and do not address the subject, whatever it is. 

If you stand on principle, and don't follow the crowd, this is what you can, and should, expect.  Don't let phony accolades like VIP! lure you. Human cliques are only there to expose the shallow bigotry of unprincipled fools. The crowd will fall into that trap. A thoughtful,  clear thinking individual can escape it.
*
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect*. ~Mark Twain

----------


## JustPassinThru

> By being "offended", you made it personal.
> 
> You are... personally offended.

----------


## Northern Rivers

> no i haven't. I'm always operating under the assumption they are about to ban me so i try not to get their attention to much.


Why feel that way?

----------


## usfan

If anyone is offensive here, it is me.  My threads bring out the offended in droves, all howling about my psychosis, education, understanding, and motivation. But that is my fault, for being 'offensive'..  my mere existence is offensive to some,  it seems. 

 I openly expressed offense.. for someone else,  that i thought was being picked on. If some want to make that into a narrative, that i am always offended by something, fine. I don't care. I am VERY accustomed to phony narratives, and am not offended in the least by the personal shots here, by my detractors. I will, however, return fire now and then, so don't expect a passive victim from me.

----------


## Calypso Jones

> Everyone was prettier  than Eleanor


true. but alice was a Roosevelt.    It was no secret the two despised each other.

----------


## usfan

> true. but alice was a Roosevelt.    It was no secret the two despised each other.


I've never thought that much of Eleanor,  but i agree with the quote. She was not bad, as a first lady.  Her husband was much worse, as a die hard progressive,  and would have crippled America more, were it not for the intervention of Hitler and the japs.

----------


## JustPassinThru

The whole of the Roosevelt tribe, disgusts me.

Theodore was a liberal Republican.  An early Progressive.  Trust-busting was an extension of the anti-capitalist Narrative the Left had at the time.

Take, for example, Rockefeller.  So WHAT he was rich.  When he started what he was doing, people were still using whale oil in their kerosene lamps.  Rockefeller, with his large company (that could endure losses while convincing the public to use petroleum oil in lighting) put the infrastructure in place.

When the motorcar came to be, it was at first, a three-way race:  Electric, steam or naptha powered.  Each had their drawbacks, and steam and electric were not practical except as displays.  Can you imagine going out and lighting off your car's boiler, an hour before driving home?  Carrying wood or coal to run it?  Electric batteries were as impractical...then, and now, both.

Naptha-powered cars had no place to buy fuel.  Rockefeller solved that - a waste-product in oil drilling, gasoline, worked as well as naptha.  And could be shipped to cities in volume, once the retailers and the storage dumps and the processing plants were in place.

Rockefeller gave the nation that.  While doing it, he didn't want to futz with competition - buying them out was an easy way.

T. Roosevelt disliked these industrial barons, and helped to demonize them for his own agenda and glorification.

AND.

Woodrow Wilson.  Hard-Left and RAY-SISST.  

It was Roosevelt's third-party campaign that split the vote three-ways, and - as with Clinton - gave Wilson, a demonic crackpot, a plurality win.

No, I have no use for either of those sons of bitches...their daughters, their wives, any of them or it.

----------

2cent (04-05-2018),usfan (04-05-2018)

----------


## 2cent

> The whole of the Roosevelt tribe, disgusts me.
> 
> Theodore was a liberal Republican.  An early Progressive.  Trust-busting was an extension of the anti-capitalist Narrative the Left had at the time.
> 
> Take, for example, Rockefeller.  So WHAT he was rich.  When he started what he was doing, people were still using whale oil in their kerosene lamps.  Rockefeller, with his large company (that could endure losses while convincing the public to use petroleum oil in lighting) put the infrastructure in place.
> 
> When the motorcar came to be, it was at first, a three-way race:  Electric, steam or naptha powered.  Each had their drawbacks, and steam and electric were not practical except as displays.  Can you imagine going out and lighting off your car's boiler, an hour before driving home?  Carrying wood or coal to run it?  Electric batteries were as impractical...then, and now, both.
> 
> Naptha-powered cars had no place to buy fuel.  Rockefeller solved that - a waste-product in oil drilling, gasoline, worked as well as naptha.  And could be shipped to cities in volume, once the retailers and the storage dumps and the processing plants were in place.
> ...


Nor I.  And if not-so-well-kept secrets are to believed, Eleanor was one of, if not THE, first feminazi.  A lesbian, (a dyke), who didn't even live w/her own husband preferring, rather, to stay at her own cottage.
They may have been wealthy trash, but they were still trash.

Meanwhile, as you point out, Rockefeller actually wanted to contribute to the growth of this nation, which lead to more independence of individuals.

----------


## NuYawka

> I've noticed that lately you've become the Forum Tough Guy, daring other members to fight with you.
> 
> I used to have respect for you, but you've changed recently.





> Your disdain for me is obvious, but i have no idea why you want to threadshit in the whole forum to express it.  Take it to the mosh pit, and quit being a rude, inconsiderate jerk.


I rest my case.

----------


## Old Tex

*T. Roosevelt disliked these industrial barons, and helped to demonize them for his own agenda and glorification.*

That tactic is still being used today. Honestly it's thrown around all the time & I just can't understand the logic. I see a bum on the street & I know that I never took his money. Well I'm lower than that bum compared to Bill Gates or any other super rich person & I know that they never took my money. So where the hell is all this stealing money that's going on? 

I didn't like the liberal views of the movie "The American President" but it did have one little speech that was dead on true. It went something like:

You point to a problem & then point to the people to blame for the problem. That's how you get elected. (Badly stated but you get the drift). It would have been even more true if it had added "And if there isn't a problem you can sell, you make one up".

----------


## Thing 1

This is a VIT - Very Important Thread or Very Important Thing (like hydrogen).

----------


## usfan

> I rest my case.


What case?   :Dontknow: 

Typical leftist deflection and bluff.  You attack me, personally, with a bunch of lies, innuendo, and phony caricatures, then howl with righteous indignation when i defend myself and shoot back.

You have no case. You have no charge. You have no evidence for your accusations. You appoint yourself judge, jury,  and executioner, and condemn me with nothing but accusations and caricatures.

Internet tough guy?  Seriously? That is such a lame charge, and one i have heard a lot, mostly in leftist run forums.  

What is the problem with you guys?  Why can't you air your gripes, and put your personal attacks where it is appropriate? I invited you, personally, to air your grievances with me, and you ignored it.. evidently preferring to make snipes and catty shots in public threads.  Why do this?  It is inconsiderate, cowardly, and rude.

I am surprised at how leftist tactics have infected conservative forums. Logic and truth are becoming despised, archaic goals in a corrupt, declining culture. The Narrative. That is all important. Innuendo, false accusations,  caricatures, and blatant lies fill the public discourse, and Truth is the first casualty. But without truth, the rest of the discourse is meaningless drivel. We are left with varying shades of lies to choose from, and all public discourse becomes propaganda driven, empty words.. Effect, not truth, is the goal.

----------


## usfan

> The whole of the Roosevelt tribe, disgusts me.
> 
> Theodore was a liberal Republican.  An early Progressive.  Trust-busting was an extension of the anti-capitalist Narrative the Left had at the time.
> 
> Take, for example, Rockefeller.  So WHAT he was rich.  When he started what he was doing, people were still using whale oil in their kerosene lamps.  Rockefeller, with his large company (that could endure losses while convincing the public to use petroleum oil in lighting) put the infrastructure in place.
> 
> When the motorcar came to be, it was at first, a three-way race:  Electric, steam or naptha powered.  Each had their drawbacks, and steam and electric were not practical except as displays.  Can you imagine going out and lighting off your car's boiler, an hour before driving home?  Carrying wood or coal to run it?  Electric batteries were as impractical...then, and now, both.
> 
> Naptha-powered cars had no place to buy fuel.  Rockefeller solved that - a waste-product in oil drilling, gasoline, worked as well as naptha.  And could be shipped to cities in volume, once the retailers and the storage dumps and the processing plants were in place.
> ...


I have a different perspective.

I vilify progressives,  as i see that ideology as destructive to the American experiment. I have followed the thread and evolution of progressivism from mid 19th century. I see it as a deadly poison, killing America,  and the values of freedom, equality, and individual liberty.  The enlightenment is over. The principles from the age of reason, the scientific revolution, and the American era are cast aside for the old system of collectivist control and exploitation of the working man.

I have no problem pointing out progressive ideology, when it reveals itself.. or any outworking or symptoms of that ideology. But i also respect the humanity in even the most deluded progressive. Most current progressives are just dupes of indoctrination. And even past progressives had an occasional hilight of truth. I have no problem acknowledging that. 

So while the general direction of the progressives is negative, it is not incongruous to acknowledge an occasional positive, even while exposing the evil of the root.

The Christian Principle this is based on is something like this:

"Hate the sin, but love the sinner."

It is most clarifying, IMO, to see the battle for freedom in ideological terms, rather than an 'us vs them', division.  But alas, the progressive influence of groupthink has infected everyone,  even conservative,  constitutional  Americans.

----------


## NuYawka

> I've noticed that lately you've become the Forum Tough Guy, daring other members to fight with you.
> 
> I used to have respect for you, but you've changed recently.





> What case?  
> 
> Typical leftist deflection and bluff.  You attack me, personally, with a bunch of lies, innuendo, and phony caricatures, then howl with righteous indignation when i defend myself and shoot back.
> 
> You have no case. You have no charge. You have no evidence for your accusations. You appoint yourself judge, jury,  and executioner, and condemn me with nothing but accusations and caricatures.
> 
> Internet tough guy?  Seriously? That is such a lame charge, and one i have heard a lot, mostly in leftist run forums.  
> 
> What is the problem with you guys?  Why can't you air your gripes, and put your personal attacks where it is appropriate? I invited you, personally, to air your grievances with me, and you ignored it.. evidently preferring to make snipes and catty shots in public threads.  Why do this?  It is inconsiderate, cowardly, and rude.
> ...


I rest my case.

----------

usfan (04-06-2018)

----------


## JustPassinThru

> I have a different perspective.
> 
> I vilify progressives,  as i see that ideology as destructive to the American experiment. I have followed the thread and evolution of progressivism from mid 19th century. I see it as a deadly poison, killing America,  and the values of freedom, equality, and individual liberty.  The enlightenment is over. The principles from the age of reason, the scientific revolution, and the American era are cast aside for the old system of collectivist control and exploitation of the working man.
> 
> I have no problem pointing out progressive ideology, when it reveals itself.. or any outworking or symptoms of that ideology. But i also respect the humanity in even the most deluded progressive. Most current progressives are just dupes of indoctrination. And even past progressives had an occasional hilight of truth. I have no problem acknowledging that. 
> 
> So while the general direction of the progressives is negative, it is not incongruous to acknowledge an occasional positive, even while exposing the evil of the root.
> 
> The Christian Principle this is based on is something like this:
> ...


I guess where we differ is on the false-populism of Bull-Moose Teddy.  His "Trust-Busting" - which, like the New (raw) Deal of forty years later, was wildly popular and wildly destructive.

When a new market is being created, a monopoly is often advantageous - not to the monopolist but for SURVIVAL.  How it is done, legally or with crony connections, is a better consideration.

Cornelius Vanderbilt merged local New York City rail lines into the New York Central, to lower shipping costs and end local monopolistic strangleholds, as in, port service.  He had his vision, and he achieved it withOUT government charters...he just bought out.  All shippers benefitted.

John Rockefeller was creating a new market for a new product - Rockefeller had a vision, a correct vision, of the uses of this new fuel.  He had to build infrastructure and open markets; and those who would piggyback on his marketing, he bought out.

ALCOA did much the same thing in the 1950s.  They were trying to create new markets for this light-but-brittle non-corroding metal - and with some monopolistic practices, they did it.

The Roosevelts, both of them and all of them, knew little-to-nothing of markets or industry.  They were creatures of GOVERNMENT, and I condemn them.  Teddy and the parks?  Teddy also put in practice the habit of Imperial Washington to GOBBLE UP vacant land - now, not for public use but to BLOCK THE PUBLIC from.

Purchasing land for parks by FedGov is UNCONSTITUTIONAL - and while it sounded nice back then, we now see how it's abused.  The Constitution was to prevent exactly this sort of abuse, and we now can see the accuracy of the Framers' fears.

----------

usfan (04-06-2018)

----------


## Taylor

i guess the answer is no

----------


## NuYawka

> i guess the answer is no


You never asked a question.

All you did was push yourself out there.

----------


## Taylor

> You never asked a question.
> 
> All you did was push yourself out there.


oh. well. can i be a vip?

----------


## NuYawka

> oh. well. can i be a vip?


No.

----------


## Taylor

> No.


damn

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

From what I have seen on this forum, the decision process as far as who becomes VIP, reminds me of this scripture.




> I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, 
> nor the battle to the strong,  neither yet bread to the wise, 
> nor yet riches to men of understanding,  nor yet favour to men of skill; 
> but time and chance happeneth to them all.
> 
> Ecclesiastes 9:11

----------


## Dan40

> i should be one. make VIP's great again.


Adults only.  You must be 21+ and full automatic to be a high capacity VIP.

----------


## n0spam4me

wow man "_Ecclesiastes 9:11"  There it is again ..... 9:11!
OH MY!_

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

> wow man "_Ecclesiastes 9:11"  There it is again ..... 9:11!
> OH MY!_


That was predictable.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

Kris P Bacon (04-12-2018)

----------


## Thing 1

I think the first qualification to be VIP might be to not seek becoming VIP.

----------

JustPassinThru (04-13-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-12-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> Adults only.  You must be 21+ and full automatic to be a high capacity VIP.


dont forget the most important qualification. I have to be a conservative trump supporter.

----------


## Rickity Plumber

> dont forget the most important qualification. I have to be a conservative trump supporter.


 . . . minus the nose ring.

----------


## NuYawka

> dont forget the most important qualification. I have to be a conservative trump supporter.


That's bullshit.

----------

NORAD (04-14-2018)

----------


## HawkTheSlayer

> dont forget the most important qualification. I have to be a conservative trump supporter.


There are many conservatives here, who to this day, do not support the President.

----------


## Thing 1

> dont forget the most important qualification. I have to be a conservative trump supporter.


Not a liberal Trump supporter?

----------


## Libhater

> jokes aside, why not? is it just a right wing club? why wouldnt i be able to be considered?


You're right Tay, socialists, Nazis, Commies and the like such as Hitler and Stalin were VIP's. So without hesitation, I would include you in that very distinct and unique club of VIPs.

----------


## nonsqtr

> damn


I think, @Taylor, that before you can become a VIP, you have to Free Yourself of the delusion that the requirement is being a conservative Trump supporter.

You need to understand that issue fully, because there's plenty of people here who aren't Trump supporters, and they're still VIPs.

You're almost there. You're a smart chick, you'll get it.

----------


## Abbey

What, exactly, comes with being a VIP?

----------


## Taylor

> There are many conservatives here, who to this day, do not support the President.


but they are conservatives nonetheless

----------


## Taylor

> What, exactly, comes with being a VIP?


dont know. but you'll be one soon enough

----------


## Canadianeye

> What, exactly, comes with being a VIP?


About what you would expect.

Who is this person, they seem like that same KKK type we had last year trying to sneak on the forum. Why should this person being allowed back on after threatening violence in 2014? I know this guy/gal from this other place...and they were nothing but a click bait, drive by poster, and they have been punted from 3 different sites I frequent in less than 2 weeks.

What do you think about this feature if added...would it cause more trouble than it is worth, and do any of you guys remember the problems when we did it in 2013? Was that because of so and so, who hasn't been around in 5 years - so it might be a good idea now?

Stuff like that.

----------


## Abbey

> dont know. but you'll be one soon enough


 Nah, I don't think so. Not my style.

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

> What, exactly, comes with being a VIP?


Pie.

----------


## Dan40

> Pie.


So that's what the P stands for.

----------

FirstGenCanadian (04-14-2018)

----------


## Abbey

> Pie.


 Mmmmmm....pie...

----------


## Dan40

> Mmmmmm....pie...

----------


## nonsqtr

> 


lol  :Smile: 

(puts on best Crocodile Dundee)

"That's not a pie - THIS is a pie."

----------


## Ginger

I'd rather have a tart, thanks.

----------

NORAD (04-14-2018)

----------


## Kris P Bacon

You saucy tart, you! Sorry, I could not resist! :Smile:

----------


## nonsqtr

> I'd rather have a tart, thanks.


Ha ha - careful, you're venturing into dangerous territory. That is "almost" a fruitcake. One could identify that as a small cake with various fruits, which makes it a small fruit cake. lol

----------


## NORAD

> but they are conservatives nonetheless


So???

----------


## Taylor

> So???


nothing gets past you

----------


## QuaseMarco

> i should be one. make VIP's great again.


Make TPF great again...................... ban all lib/prog/dem trolls.

----------

NORAD (04-14-2018)

----------


## NORAD

> Make TPF great again...................... ban all lib/prog/dem trolls.


 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## NORAD

> nothing gets past you


Too much gets past you ... so sorry.

----------

NuYawka (04-14-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> Make TPF great again...................... ban all lib/prog/dem trolls.


so you just want an echo chamber? I bet you are pissed about conservative points of view being censored but seem cool with liberals being censored?

----------


## Hairball

> What, exactly, comes with being a VIP?


A Hairball.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

> so you just want an echo chamber? I bet you are pissed about conservative points of view being censored but seem cool with liberals being censored?


Despite what you think, this place, with or without libs/progs/dems, is far from an echo chamber.

----------

Canadianeye (04-14-2018),NORAD (04-15-2018),QuaseMarco (04-16-2018)

----------


## Thing 1

Vip it or zip it.

----------


## Canadianeye

> Despite what you think, this place, with or without libs/progs/dems, is far from an echo chamber.


Did Tay just sort of, kind of like allude that a VIP section in a conservative forum...is the same as the flagrant conservative censorship of the titans of social media, Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter?

Wow. Somebody call it in...massive reality check needed on aisle 143.

----------

FirstGenCanadian (04-15-2018),NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## nonsqtr

I dunno. Tay, have you ever been censored here? Had any of your posts removed? Had any of your words changed?

Why is it that the young liberals love to complain about stuff that doesn't exist? lol  :Wink: 

Maybe they spend too much time with that gaming stuff. You know, virtual reality.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> Despite what you think, this place, with or without libs/progs/dems, is far from an echo chamber.


laughable

----------


## Taylor

> I dunno. Tay, have you ever been censored here? Had any of your posts removed? Had any of your words changed?
> 
> Why is it that the young liberals love to complain about stuff that doesn't exist? lol 
> 
> Maybe they spend too much time with that gaming stuff. You know, virtual reality.


I've had posts removed, yes, and I've had words changed, yes.

----------


## Taylor

> Did Tay just sort of, kind of like allude that a VIP section in a conservative forum...is the same as the flagrant conservative censorship of the titans of social media, Google, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter?
> 
> Wow. Somebody call it in...massive reality check needed on aisle 143.


uh no all i did was make the point that for many of you people who seem so pissed off when conservatives are censored its ironic that some of you seem more than cool with doing the same thing to other political points of view that you dont like on here.

----------


## nonsqtr

> I've had posts removed, yes, and I've had words changed, yes.


Really? Okay, I'll back down on that one then, I don't know and I don't want to know. The mods have always treated me fair and square. More than fair and square, downright nice.

'Course I'm one of those ebil white conservatives, so y'know, I value my white privilege and I'd like to keep it. lol  :Wink:

----------


## Canadianeye

> uh no all i did was make the point that for many of you people who seem so pissed off *when conservatives are censored* its ironic that some of you seem more than cool with doing the same thing to other political points of view that you dont like on here.


*Where* are you referring we are censored, that pisses us off, Tay?

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> *Where* are you referring we are censored, that pisses us off, Tay?


dont conservatives claim to be censored on Facebook, youtube, and other places? if it sucks so much to be censored then why desire for my voice to be censored here or other liberals?

----------


## Kodiak

> dont conservatives claim to be censored on Facebook, youtube, and other places?


 It's not a "claim", do some research.




> if it sucks so much to be censored then why desire for my voice to be censored here or other liberals?


Personally, I couldn't care less if you yammer on with your jibberish.  I just ignore you for the most part.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## Canadianeye

> dont conservatives claim to be censored on Facebook, youtube, and other places? if it sucks so much to be censored then why desire for my voice to be censored here or other liberals?


It's not really a claim Tay, meaning, it is has been acknowledged as fact that that is what is happening with YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Google. Some of them have admitted it, and then "claimed" that they were going to fix it.

I haven't seen you censored. I know sometimes people around here get thread banned, banned or have certain language removed...but that happens to conservatives, liberals, atheists, believers, conspiracy theorists, libertarians etc.

For a conservative forum, it is extremely even handed around here...if the comparison is even being attempted to be made with the enormity of the social media empires of YouTube, Google, Facebook and Twitter - who - self admittedly, are not.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## Taylor

> Make TPF great again...................... ban all lib/prog/dem trolls.





> It's not really a claim Tay, meaning, it is has been acknowledged as fact that that is what is happening with YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Google. Some of them have admitted it, and then "claimed" that they were going to fix it.
> 
> I haven't seen you censored. I know sometimes people around here get thread banned, banned or have certain language removed...but that happens to conservatives, liberals, atheists, believers, conspiracy theorists, libertarians etc.
> 
> For a conservative forum, it is extremely even handed around here...if the comparison is even being attempted to be made with the enormity of the social media empires of YouTube, Google, Facebook and Twitter - who - self admittedly, are not.


the quote above is what my comments are directed towards. nobody seems to be condemning or countering his desire for censorship on here.

----------


## Canadianeye

> the quote above is what my comments are directed towards. nobody seems to be condemning or countering his desire for censorship on here.


I'd suggest QM was joking, which is quite a bit different from actual censorship. By comparison, if giant social media empires only "joked" about censoring conservative it would be far worse than a joke by QM...but the truth is, they (the social media giants) don't just joke about it - they censor conservatives for nothing other than political views, primarily because they hire 99% people of your political ideological leanings.

I'm always a little mystified when you don't see the blatant hypocrisy within your ranks. I just watched a movie, made long before your time I suspect (1989), called Field of Dreams. Kind of a baseball mystical flick. There was a part in there, where this guys wife was a leftover radical leftist hippie type, who was bitching out a crowd of people for censorship, and calling them fascists etc.

Your political ideology are the fascists and censors Tay. From social media to violently forcing conservative campus speakers...to not even be allowed to ATTEND, let alone speak.

Remarkable you don't see it.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018),Thing 1 (04-14-2018)

----------


## JustPassinThru

> laughable


You think that?

Compare Sled Dog, Dan, the Canadians, and me.  Four, maybe five different viewpoints.  VASTLY different.

Right now I'm being castigated for my assertion that the legalization of marijuana equals the irreversible decline of the United States into eventual tyranny.  The libertarians here don't agree; and at this point it doesn't matter.  It's done and what has happened in Eurostan will continue here, as there.  

Pot and free society are incompatible.  There's one thing we disagree with in the "echo chamber."

Then, there's the matter of Trump.  Just because I don't agree with the mindless soundbyte-repetitions of Mediuh MatterZ...ray-_SISST!_  ray-_SISST!_...doesn't mean I'm a trumpiphile.  I have MAJOR differences with the man.  The Dumbo-crat agitators don't address a single one of them.

Echo chamber?  Not hardly.

But it would seem so if you aren't able to follow the conversation...

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018),NuYawka (04-14-2018),Thing 1 (04-14-2018)

----------


## Thing 1

> the quote above is what my comments are directed towards. nobody seems to be condemning or countering his desire for censorship on here.


This millennial generation doesn't get sarcasm.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## NORAD

> so you just want an echo chamber? I bet you are pissed about conservative points of view being censored but seem cool with liberals being censored?


Quit betting and stop putting words in our mouths.



> Despite what you think, this place, with or without libs/progs/dems, is far from an echo chamber.


True!!



> I dunno. Tay, have you ever been censored here? Had any of your posts removed? Had any of your words changed?
> Why is it that the young liberals love to complain about stuff that doesn't exist? lol 
> Maybe they spend too much time with that gaming stuff. You know, virtual reality.





> I've had posts removed, yes, and I've had words changed, yes.


Good, you've been 'censored' here.  Probably well deserved.  Each forum has their own rules and this forum is the most lax I've ever seen!  You should feel honored to be allowed to post here!!!!



> uh no all i did was make the point that for many of you people *who seem so pissed off when conservatives are censored* 
> 
> its ironic that *some of you seem more than cool with doing the same thing to other political points of view that you dont like on here*.


You didn't point out anything,my dear..............You posted your OWN 'thoughts' , accused most of us what YOU were 'thinking' and ran with your Liberal assumptions again.

What many Liberals fail to recognize is Free Speech is a right for every citizen of the USA.

Unless, Liberals don't like what they're hearing/reading......... then holy batman the shrieks and screams are enough to drown out the heavens.

----------

2cent (04-15-2018),Canadianeye (04-15-2018)

----------


## NORAD

> This millennial generation doesn't get sarcasm.


The intelligent ones do ..................  :Smile:

----------

Thing 1 (04-15-2018)

----------


## 2cent

> Quit betting and stop putting words in our mouths.
> 
> True!!
> 
> 
> Good, you've been 'censored' here.  Probably well deserved.  Each forum has their own rules and this forum is the most lax I've ever seen!  You should feel honored to be allowed to post here!!!!
> 
> 
> You didn't point out anything,my dear..............You posted your OWN 'thoughts' , accused most of us what YOU were 'thinking' and ran with your Liberal assumptions again.
> ...


Uh oh.  You are going to be SO in trouble.  You said "heavens."  To a liberal, no less.

----------

NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## Pork Chop

To be honest Taylor, I’ve not noticed any censorship on here; I think once a mod put up a notice to the effect of ‘tone it down please’ and that’s about it. The problem with liberal thought is it looks for instances of censorship to complain about because that’s in its nature and if it doesn’t find any it looks for things to censor, so it can complain about censorship. This forum isn’t based on the liberal ideal of everyone agreeing and continually engaged in self-censorship and c’mon m’ dear (is that sexist?), it is a conservative (should we censor that word?) forum so you’re (gender neutral) bound to get a lot of (no profanity please) … conservatives?

----------

Kris P Bacon (04-15-2018),NORAD (04-15-2018)

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

> laughable


The only thing that’s laughable, is your lack of observation.  Everything I said is written all across this site.   

Your comment was driven purely by emotion, and you took no effort to look into what I said.

----------


## Ginger

> I've had posts removed, yes, and I've had words changed, yes.


*  If any member changed your quote and we were aware of it, that member would get an infraction of some sort and most likely a thread ban.   If you had any posts removed, they were red infraction worthy. Period. Don't go calling us censors whey YOU broke the rules to that degree; don't you dare come on this forum and impugn the integrity of the mods here; to do so is a lie and I'll call you on it. There are a few lines here you dare not cross. *  
 @Taylor

----------


## Taylor

> *  If any member changed your quote and we were aware of it, that member would get an infraction of some sort and most likely a thread ban.   If you had any posts removed, they were red infraction worthy. Period. Don't go calling us censors whey YOU broke the rules to that degree; don't you dare come on this forum and impugn the integrity of the mods here; to do so is a lie and I'll call you on it. There are a few lines here you dare not cross. *  
>  @Taylor


im not lying but its also not worth the argument or the risk of getting punished. the things I'm talking about happened before you were an administrator back when i first joined.

----------


## JustPassinThru

No proof, roger.

Those are serious charges you've made; and if a mod was doing it, that mod needs to be removed.

It's time to put up or shut up.  Prove it or it didn't happen.

----------


## Taylor

> No proof, roger.
> 
> Those are serious charges you've made; and if a mod was doing it, that mod needs to be removed.
> 
> It's time to put up or shut up.  Prove it or it didn't happen.


ill shut up

----------


## Ginger

> im not lying but its also not worth the argument or the risk of getting punished. the things I'm talking about happened before you were an administrator back when i first joined.


You are lying, I checked with the other mods.

----------


## Dan40

> uh no all i did was make the point that for many of you people who seem so pissed off when conservatives are censored its ironic that some of you seem more than cool with doing the same thing to other political points of view that you dont like on here.


The government censoring anyone is forbidden by the Constitution.  Any non-Government org. or individual is free to censor anyone they choose.

From the Constitution:

_"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or  prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of  speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to  assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
_ The LAW says nothing about you censoring me, me censoring you, or the mods censoring both of us.  And all other posters have the same right of censorship.

The forum has an IGNORE feature, that is censorship.  The mods can threadban anyone they decide needs to be threadbanned, and they can banish trolls forever.

The GOVERNMENT is restricted, not the people.  One could argue that only congress is restricted.

I just read a letter to the editors, where a liberal yahoo was whining about some schools forcing religion on students.  He fails to realize that:


  A Government school cannot, a private school is free to do so.

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## NuYawka

> You are lying, I checked with the other mods.





> ill shut up


Lol, too late.
It ironically looks as though you've now taken ten steps BACKWARDS on your fishin' mission towards VIP status.

It'll be okay, Tay...
Trix are for kids.

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## Taylor

> You are lying, I checked with the other mods.


no I’m not but it’s not worth it. I rarely report things and so that’s why there’s not much “proof” and there were times when things like my signature was changed without my knowledge as well in which I got an apology afterwards. I don’t know why you are all of a sudden so angry at me. You and trinity have always been fair and pretty kind to me and I’ve never been mean to either of you or attacked either of you. You were cool to me for a long time but yesterday even you forum broke a rule by personally attacking me when you called me a name. At this point I’m just defending myself from everybody here. If I don’t respond then I’m lying, but if i do i risk getting in trouble. I’m going to lose either way so I’d rather just let it go.

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## Taylor

> Lol, too late.
> It ironically looks as though you've now taken ten steps BACKWARDS on your fishin' mission towards VIP status.
> 
> It'll be okay, Tay...
> Trix are for kids.


yes i know

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## Trinnity

> no Im not but its not worth it. I rarely report things and so thats why theres not much proof and there were times when things like my signature was changed without my knowledge


No way, unless there was something overtly obscene or a threat or something really bad. Everyone knows we mod lightly. We don't have to be heavy handed because bullies and trolls get banned. 

We aren't going to debate this further in public and I advise you to back off and cool it fighting with people here, especially the mods. 


*S T O P*

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## Taylor

Ok

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## Fly Paper

> There are many conservatives here, who to this day, do not support the President.


Then by the logic of this forum, they're a Liberal.

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## Fly Paper

> The only thing that’s laughable, is your lack of observation.  Everything I said is written all across this site.


.... unfortunately for us.

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## NuYawka

> There are many conservatives here, who to this day, do not support the President.





> Then by the logic of this forum, they're a Liberal.


Fly Paper, that's

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2cent (04-15-2018),Hillofbeans (04-15-2018),NORAD (04-16-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018)

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## Dan40

> Then by the logic of this forum, they're a Liberal.


Fly Paper logic is an oxymoron.

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## Fly Paper

> Fly Paper, that's


Let me see. I'm a conservative but I don't support unsuitable guns, so posters call me a Liberal. There are conservatives on here but don't support Trump and they're called conservatives? Your BS comment is deluded and utter BS.

Your brain has slipped a gear. Try again.

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## Fly Paper

> Fly Paper logic is an oxymoron.


HawkTheSlayer has let the cat out of the bag. And you have the cheek to try and reverse role it. Tut tut. I knew you lot where full of BS. Thanks to HawkTheSlayer for confirmation.

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## OldSchool

> Ok


Just be yourself and take it as it comes... This forum is not a place for the faint of heart and the 'I'm entitled' thinkers.

I actually kinda like having you around. You're kinda like an insider to the way of thinking and posters on boards/forums where most of us would not be allowed to continue posting.

Would be kinda cool to see you hang around and maybe even grow.

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## OldSchool

> Let me see. I'm a conservative but I don't support unsuitable guns, so posters call me a Liberal. There are conservatives on here but don't support Trump and they're called conservatives? Your BS comment is deluded and utter BS.
> 
> Your brain has slipped a gear. Try again.


Someone will be along to say: Seeing that you have a problem "Start your own damn thread".

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## HawkTheSlayer

> HawkTheSlayer has let the cat out of the bag. And you have the cheek to try and reverse role it. Tut tut. I knew you lot where full of BS. Thanks to HawkTheSlayer for confirmation.


You have no qualifications or attributes that would ever make you an American Conservative. 
You would not even fall into the moderate category. 

The imaginary conservatism you think you possess is but a cracked marble rolling haphazardly in your skull.

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Canadianeye (04-15-2018),Kris P Bacon (04-15-2018),NORAD (04-16-2018),NuYawka (04-15-2018),OldSchool (04-15-2018)

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## Thing 1

A conservative in Britain is someone who voted for Theresa May's party. If May were in America she would be a liberal.

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## Dan40

> HawkTheSlayer has let the cat out of the bag. And you have the cheek to try and reverse role it. Tut tut. I knew you lot where full of BS. Thanks to HawkTheSlayer for confirmation.


You started out confused, you're still confused.

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## Pork Chop

You have to sort of put this into perspective. Most of us foreigners here are of the H. Bush and Reagan era. Like many of you, we remember when the US led the world in morals and was something to aspire to. What the UK is now, to put it bluntly, is a failed state and we dont like to see the US heading in the same miserable direction and pretending its not. Our ideas of conservatism are totally different from the US, we could never vote in Trump, but we do vote in a liberal masquerading as a conservative, in the same way that Democrats voted in a communist posing as a liberal. Were not polarized in the same way as the US; we could vote conservative (R), whilst believing in national health care (D) or banning firearms on either side. We see this not as core issues, but peripheries. Its just these differences that we adhere to that makes us different.

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## nonsqtr

> You have to sort of put this into perspective. Most of us foreigners here are of the H. Bush and Reagan era. Like many of you, we remember when the US led the world in morals and was something to aspire to. What the UK is now, to put it bluntly, is a failed state and we don’t like to see the US heading in the same miserable direction and pretending it’s not. Our ideas of conservatism are totally different from the US, we could never vote in Trump, but we do vote in a liberal masquerading as a conservative, in the same way that Democrats voted in a communist posing as a liberal. We’re not polarized in the same way as the US; we could vote conservative (R), whilst believing in national health care (D) or banning firearms on either side. We see this not as core issues, but peripheries. It’s just these differences that we adhere to that makes us different.


American Conservatives are practical people. We base our policies on reality.

For instance - the first rule of reality is, anything the government does is going to be horribly inefficient and it's going to cost 10 times as much as it would in the private sector, and it's going to take 10 times as long, and is going to spawn all manner of corruption.

The second rule of reality is, power corrupts. Always. Give a cop a badge, and the next thing you know you have the Rodney King riots.

The third rule of reality is, since human beings are so easily corrupted, no one can be trusted. And this includes especially and specifically politicians. Most of them would sell their own mothers for a nickel to get elected. And then after their elected they will put all their friends in power. Remember Brownie?

We're not going to disarm, and we're going to do our best to minimize the size and influence of government, wherever and whenever possible.

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NORAD (04-16-2018)

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## Fly Paper

> You have no qualifications or attributes that would ever make you an American Conservative. 
> You would not even fall into the moderate category. 
> 
> The imaginary conservatism you think you possess is but a cracked marble rolling haphazardly in your skull.


So you're just all Liberals as you come out with the same Labour crap.

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## Fly Paper

> American Conservatives are practical people. We base our policies on reality.
> 
> For instance - the first rule of reality is, anything the government does is going to be horribly inefficient and it's going to cost 10 times as much as it would in the private sector, and it's going to take 10 times as long, and is going to spawn all manner of corruption.
> 
> The second rule of reality is, power corrupts. Always. Give a cop a badge, and the next thing you know you have the Rodney King riots.
> 
> The third rule of reality is, since human beings are so easily corrupted, no one can be trusted. And this includes especially and specifically politicians. Most of them would sell their own mothers for a nickel to get elected. And then after their elected they will put all their friends in power. Remember Brownie?
> 
> We're not going to disarm, and we're going to do our best to minimize the size and influence of government, wherever and whenever possible.


Correct, power corrupts. America's foreign policy has always been going about the planet bombing countries, hence the attitude America attracts from those countries. You reap what you sow.

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## Fly Paper

> A conservative in Britain is someone who voted for Theresa May's party. If May were in America she would be a liberal.


Same crap as a Labour supporter spurts. That makes you just as bad, a socialist/communist.

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## Pork Chop

> American Conservatives are practical people. We base our policies on reality.
> 
> For instance - the first rule of reality is, anything the government does is going to be horribly inefficient and it's going to cost 10 times as much as it would in the private sector, and it's going to take 10 times as long, and is going to spawn all manner of corruption.
> 
> The second rule of reality is, power corrupts. Always. Give a cop a badge, and the next thing you know you have the Rodney King riots.
> 
> The third rule of reality is, since human beings are so easily corrupted, no one can be trusted. And this includes especially and specifically politicians. Most of them would sell their own mothers for a nickel to get elected. And then after their elected they will put all their friends in power. Remember Brownie?
> 
> We're not going to disarm, and we're going to do our best to minimize the size and influence of government, wherever and whenever possible.




Theres a fourth. If my president choice is elected, they can do no wrong.

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## Crusader

> Correct, power corrupts. America's foreign policy has always been going about the planet bombing countries, hence the attitude America attracts from those countries. You reap what you sow.


Holly crap, you obviously know nothing about the history of your own country. The only reason the UK is still not trying to conquer the world is because they are too weak now to do it. If power corrupts why is the UK so corrupt, they sure as hell don’t have any power.

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NORAD (04-16-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> Just be yourself and take it as it comes... This forum is not a place for the faint of heart and the 'I'm entitled' thinkers.
> 
> I actually kinda like having you around. You're kinda like an insider to the way of thinking and posters on boards/forums where most of us would not be allowed to continue posting.
> 
> Would be kinda cool to see you hang around and maybe even grow.


I have to agree with you @OldSchool. Having @Taylor around is similar to having a younger brother or sister tagging along with you and your friends. 

The little sibling may not know the best route to take or the best choice but at least they are there with you looking for guidance.

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OldSchool (04-19-2018)

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## Rickity Plumber

> Let me see. I'm a conservative but I don't support unsuitable guns, so posters call me a Liberal. There are conservatives on here but don't support Trump and they're called conservatives? Your BS comment is deluded and utter BS.
> 
> Your brain has slipped a gear. Try again.

----------


## Thing 1

> Holly crap, you obviously know nothing about the history of your own country. The only reason the UK is still not trying to conquer the world is because they are too weak now to do it. If power corrupts why is the UK so corrupt, they sure as hell don’t have any power.


They are Rome in the Late Antiquity era.

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## Canadianeye

> Holly crap, you obviously know nothing about the history of your own country. The only reason the UK is still not trying to conquer the world is because they are too weak now to do it. If power corrupts why is the UK so corrupt, they sure as hell don’t have any power.


I think he is just trying to get a rise.

About the only thing he could criticize America for regarding this...is how they have NOT followed the historical, millennia long, examples of countries and empires, murdering, raping, pillaging for CONQUEST rather than trying to stop the progress of Communism etc.

Certainly there are hundreds and hundreds of examples of nations doing exactly that...England being a primary one. China, Japan, Russia, etc and etc.

As a conquesting empire citizen...he could certainly fault America for not doing like their numerous historical examples. I mean really - who would know better than he.

Futhermore...if Americas aggression, WITHOUT conquest validates reaping what they sow...then every nation on earth who have actually been in the conquest business, deserves everything they get - and then some!!  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

/snicker

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2cent (04-17-2018),JustPassinThru (04-16-2018)

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## Daily Bread

Fly Paper is a simple minded Muslim orientated poster so we can't take him seriously . Engaging someone this idiotic is fruitless and a waste of human endeavor . BUT......keeping Fly around is good for the proverbial joke .

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## Old Tex

> Correct, power corrupts. America's foreign policy has always been going about the planet bombing countries, hence the attitude America attracts from those countries. You reap what you sow.


Fly Paper you are funny but not a history student. First off Britton was in on our latest bombings. But let's get past that & check out history. Is there a country that borders on water in the world that Britton hasn't had a war with? How about a race of people that Britton hasn't tried to control? Why don't they still do that? Well the simple fact is that they went socialist & even with their insane taxes they can't raise the kind of money that will support the military machine they would need to do that. And the same applies to all those socialist program countries in Western Europe. They rely on our military which we still have because we are more capitalist & therefore have more money to spend on it. 

So please if your going to attack the U.S. on anything you shouldn't pick that we go out bombing anyone because the one area that Britton has excelled in is war on other countries, or should I say all other countries.

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NORAD (04-17-2018),Rickity Plumber (04-19-2018)

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## Thing 1

> Fly Paper you are funny but not a history student. First off Britton was in on our latest bombings. But let's get past that & check out history. Is there a country that borders on water in the world that Britton hasn't had a war with? How about a race of people that Britton hasn't tried to control? Why don't they still do that? Well the simple fact is that they went socialist & even with their insane taxes they can't raise the kind of money that will support the military machine they would need to do that. And the same applies to all those socialist program countries in Western Europe. They rely on our military which we still have because we are more capitalist & therefore have more money to spend on it. 
> 
> So please if your going to attack the U.S. on anything you shouldn't pick that we go out bombing anyone because the one area that Britton has excelled in is war on other countries, or should I say all other countries.


Yes, and all those countries are free to leave NATO whenever they want.

----------

