# Politics and News > World Affairs >  Israeli jets bombed Syria on Sunday

## Trinnity

Good.   :Cool20: 

Someone with balls has to stand up to Iran. Israel has balls. <bowling balls>

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94400020130505

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## Guest

They have balls because we'll stand behind them.  Without the United States they are a small nation without the reserves to fight a long war with all of the Middle East and especially Iran and their *large* standing army.

They will drag us into a war with Iran where guys like my bodyguard (who has a sniper MOS) will be brought back in to fight because he's on inactive reserves with less than a year out.

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## The XL

Israel is going to drag us into another conflict with a country that is no threat to us whatsoever.  Yay!!!!!!!1

Israel has no balls.  They're the little kid talking shit at the park to his 8 year old peers because his 17 year old brother is standing there.

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sooda (10-23-2015)

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## The XL

> They have balls because we'll stand behind them.  Without the United States they are a small nation without the reserves to fight a long war with all of the Middle East and especially Iran and their *large* standing army.
> 
> They will drag us into a war with Iran where guys like my bodyguard (who has a sniper MOS) will be brought back in to fight because he's on inactive reserves with less than a year out.


But let's cheer, cause Israel has balls, and starting shit with countries for no reason is cool.

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## The XL

The problem with you people that cheer this shit is, you don't understand that these conflicts are useless and unnecessary, and because you aren't going to be the person shot at and possibly dying, you have this massive disconnect from reality.  The shit ain't Call of Duty folks.  It's real life.

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## Guest

> Israel is going to drag us into another conflict with a country that is no threat to us whatsoever.  Yay!!!!!!!1
> 
> Israel has no balls.  They're the little kid talking shit at the park to his 8 year old peers because his 17 year old brother is standing there.


Yes, exactly.  If any other nation acted like them we would hate them.  Always throwing OUR weight around.  It was England's idea to recreate that state for people who had never lived there themselves.  They should be Great Britain's problem.

I have no problem with the "People Israel".  Jesus was a Jew, my boss and 90% of my coworkers are Jews--it's not antisemitism it is pragmatism.  They are part of the reason why the Islamic world hates us.  We should have put a muzzle on them years ago and said that if they wanted our money and military support and to act like our 51st state then STFU and let us do the talking.


Sorry...rough night.  I don't want BG to go to war.   :Frown:

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TheTemporaryBG (05-06-2013)

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## Trinnity

Stick your head in the sand, XL, if you want to. But Iran either has nukes or will shortly and they're helping Syria murder it's people with poison gas. This is very serious. If we never stand up to the crazy-ass people like Iran, some day they will kill us. Because. They. Can.

They want to rule THE WORLD with Sharia Law. 

I don't have the answers. But I know they're a serious, deadly threat that is NOT gonna go away.

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## Guest

> The problem with you people that cheer this shit is, you don't understand that these conflicts are useless and unnecessary, and because you aren't going to be the person shot at and possibly dying, you have this massive disconnect from reality.  The shit ain't Call of Duty folks.  It's real life.


I'd be the person being shot at and possibly dying over and over again before being the one left behind to worry, to fear, and to live without their grace in your life.

I hate these war mongers...from Israel to Saudi Arabia to the White House or the Kremlin.  There will be a day of reckoning with God for their hate and evil.

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## The XL

> Stick your head in the sand, XL, if you want to. But Iran either has nukes or will shortly and they're helping Syria murder it's people with poison gas. This is very serious. If we never stand up to the crazy-ass people like Iran, some day they will kill us. Because. They. Can.
> 
> They want to rule THE WORLD with Sharia Law. 
> 
> I don't have the answers. But I know they're a serious, deadly threat that is NOT gonna go away.


I don't buy the Syria stuff.  Either way, it's not our business.  

Iran doesn't have nukes, but if they did, they still aren't a threat.  They couldn't hit us, and if they did, they'd be wiped off the map.

You guys have to stop buying all this nonsense propaganda you're being sold.  We're run by liars and criminals.

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## Guest

> Stick your head in the sand, XL, if you want to. But Iran either has nukes or will shortly and they're helping Syria murder it's people with poison gas. This is very serious. If we never stand up to the crazy-ass people like Iran, some day they will kill us. Because. They. Can.


Russia/the Soviet Union had more nukes (still does) than any other enemy we have ever had.  The Cold War lasted for 50 years without either of us invading the other or blowing it up.  Iran has never threatened us.  What nukes they have can be taken out by ours and we would pummel that bitch to the ground with nuclear weapons if they tried.  We have enough nuclear weapons in our arsenal to destroy the entire world several times over.

This is not about "us".  They threatened Israel.  If we want to annex Israel and make it the 51st state, that is one thing.  We have not done this.





> They want to rule THE WORLD with Sharia Law.


Is it any different than the Bilderbergs wanting to rule the world with their secular humanism and corporatism?  No one in power in any country is decent or probably even human.  If they were they wouldnt have risen to the top of an ugly game.




> I don't have the answers. But I know they're a serious, deadly threat that is NOT gonna go away.


There will always be threat of war from someone.  Always has, always will.  We had a Department of Defense.  To defend our shores.  It has been anything but since the early 1800s.

I used to think very differently about these things until the reality of war smacked me in the face.  I am, for all intents and purposes, a zombie.  I move, I speak, but I'm not "here" anymore.  I'm half-dead.  That's what we will do to more and more mothers, wives, husbands, children if we jump in to this without considering what we're doing.

Maybe we just drop nukes on the entire region and call it a day.

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## The XL

> I'd be the person being shot at and possibly dying over and over again before being the one left behind to worry, to fear, and to live without their grace in your life.
> 
> I hate these war mongers...from Israel to Saudi Arabia to the White House or the Kremlin.  There will be a day of reckoning with God for their hate and evil.


They only get away with because of the people in this country fall for this crap, over and over.

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## ptif219

> They have balls because we'll stand behind them.  Without the United States they are a small nation without the reserves to fight a long war with all of the Middle East and especially Iran and their *large* standing army.
> 
> They will drag us into a war with Iran where guys like my bodyguard (who has a sniper MOS) will be brought back in to fight because he's on inactive reserves with less than a year out.


  You would rather let Hezbollah get the weapons and destroy Israel?

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## ptif219

> Israel is going to drag us into another conflict with a country that is no threat to us whatsoever.  Yay!!!!!!!1
> 
> Israel has no balls.  They're the little kid talking shit at the park to his 8 year old peers because his 17 year old brother is standing there.


  So Iran is no threat?

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## Guest

> You would rather let Hezbollah get the weapons and destroy Israel?


Would I rather see Israelis die than Americans?  Yes.   I'm an American.  Were I an Israeli I'd rather see Americans die than Israelis.

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## ptif219

> But let's cheer, cause Israel has balls, and starting shit with countries for no reason is cool.


  You show you know nothing.  Israel is destroying weapons from Iran that were headed to Hezbollah

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94400020130505




> Israeli jets  devastated Syrian targets near Damascus on Sunday in a heavy overnight  air raid that Western and Israeli officials called a new strike on  Iranian missiles bound for Lebanon's Hezbollah.

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## ptif219

> Would I rather see Israelis die than Americans?  Yes.   I'm an American.  Were I an Israeli I'd rather see Americans die than Israelis.


  The point is Israel is defending itself and you condemn that.  You show you hate Israel and love the Muslim terrorists

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## Guest

> So Iran is no threat?




The United States is a threat to Iran.

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## Guest

> The point is Israel is defending itself and you condemn that.  You show you hate Israel and love the Muslim terrorists


Muslims in Afghanistan were responsible for the death of my husband.  I'll leave it at that so I don't get banned.

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## The XL

> So Iran is no threat?


Zero threat.

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## The XL

> The point is Israel is defending itself and you condemn that.  You show you hate Israel and love the Muslim terrorists


I'd have no problem with what Israel is doing if we weren't attached to it.

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garyo (05-05-2013)

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## Guest

> I'd have no problem with what Israel is doing if we weren't attached to it.


I 100% agree.  Israel has every right to defend itself, *but* it should defend itself and act as though the United States will not be involved.  If they thought they were alone in their defense, they would probably do things a lot differently.

I'm not saying we should not support allies, but we should not support them when they preemptively strike or using  OUR troops.  Send them food and medical supplies, take in refugees, etc.

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## The XL

I don't want to send them anything other than food and medical stuff.  Sending them weaponry causes blowback.

I just want to leave there.  And I'm tired when Neocons with IQs in the double digits call me weak on terror or claim I support the enemy because I don't want people to die because of useless wars with 3rd world small fry.  You guys buy everything these politicians sell, you, it's pathetic.  They're fucking puppets for bankers, the military industrial complex, and other special interests.  What they say has no merit.  They make shit up.

They'll never nuke us.  Even if they wanted to.  It would be suicide.  Contrary to popular belief, they don't want to be wiped off the map.

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## Guest

It's like how I feel about the drug war and people posturing.  If they were the one having to arrest and throw someone who is crying, who wants to go home and is frightened and sick into that cell and lock the door, knowing they would be there for months just because they smoked something or swallowed something...most people wouldn't do it.

If all the people saying we should be happy about this and should go kick some Iranian ass instead told @TheTemporaryBG who is still "active": 

_Hey, this is important.  You need to go defend this action on the part of Israel.  Thanks for being IED and bullet fodder._ 

 Like if they really had to say that to him like his officers would, fewer people would agree with these wars.

It is our separation from the field of battle, the death, and these young men and women that makes it easier for us to say this stuff.  That's  just human nature.  When you can't see it, it's less painful.  It's like abortion.  When you don't have to see what's going on to the fetus it's easier to say a woman's body, her choice.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> The problem with you people that cheer this shit is, you don't understand that these conflicts are useless and unnecessary, and because you aren't going to be the person shot at and possibly dying, *you have this massive disconnect from reality.  The shit ain't Call of Duty folks.  It's real life.*


Let's get one thing straight here dude, and it's nothing new, you already know it. Nobody here gives any credit to Call of Duty for "realism," and I'd bet real hard cash money that most people here don't even play it. So drop the bullshit assumptions that we would base our perception of reality on something so fake.

Israel is what people call a "strategic ally."

While Iran may not be a real big threat right now, we have to be there for our allies. That's why we're called "allies." What if suddenly China started threatening an attack on America? Would you want our allies to be there for us or tell us to kiss their asses?

I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to know the answer to that one.

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## Guest

> Israel is what people call a "strategic ally."


What makes them strategic?  What do we get from that relationship?  It is a small nation, disliked, whose accolades on the world stage work against our favor (unlike Great Britain).  It receives aid from us...intel? What?

We have intelligence agencies ourselves with bigger budgets.  Military support?  Our military is 100x it's size.

They are an ally because of the Israeli lobby and Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists who interpret parts of the Bible to mean a place.




> While Iran may not be a real big threat right now, we have to be there for our allies. That's why we're called "allies." What if suddenly China started threatening an attack on America? Would you want our allies to be there for us or tell us to kiss their asses?


So, you feel this so strongly that you would tell someone in the military with a pregnant wife that they should go and die for a strategic ally's preemptive attack?  

How about that man's wife or mother?  You feel so strongly that you, yourself, would go into their homes and explain this to them, that their loved one should die NOT because his country started a war, but because another country did.

I want an answer to that one, please, because I think you wouldn't be able to when you looked in their faces.  You have no idea of loss or what it does to you.  I lost someone.  It's not worth it.

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## Guest

This is what you see on the news




I see pictures on my wall of a young smiling face and an empty closet of clothes.  


If we're sending people to die, it should be in defense of OUR nation, in defense of OUR people, and it should be because we were attacked.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> So, you feel this so strongly that you would tell someone in the military with a pregnant wife that they should go and die for a strategic ally's preemptive attack?




Nope. I never said what they are doing is right. Just that we have to be there for our allies. If we don't plan on being there for them, we shouldn't have ever became allies with them.

Thought this would be common sense.





> How about that man's wife or mother? You feel so strongly that you, yourself, would go into their homes and explain this to them, that their loved one should die NOT because his country started a war, but because another country did.





> I want an answer to that one, please, because I think you wouldn't be able to when you looked in their faces. You have no idea of loss or what it does to you. I lost someone. It's not worth it.


You're right. It's not worth it. None of it is. But we became allies and we should be there for them.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

Looks like I need to call my military friends and tell them I love them, and goodbye. And maybe I'm sorry.

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## The XL

> Let's get one thing straight here dude, and it's nothing new, you already know it. Nobody here gives any credit to Call of Duty for "realism," and I'd bet real hard cash money that most people here don't even play it. So drop the bullshit assumptions that we would base our perception of reality on something so fake.
> 
> Israel is what people call a "strategic ally."
> 
> While Iran may not be a real big threat right now, we have to be there for our allies. That's why we're called "allies." What if suddenly China started threatening an attack on America? Would you want our allies to be there for us or tell us to kiss their asses?
> 
> I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to know the answer to that one.


You really buy Iran as a threat at any point?  I thought better of you, honestly. 

And yes, most of you Neocons do treat this shit as some sort of game.

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## The XL

We don't need allies, we're the most powerful country in the world many times over.

Hell, we wouldn't have many, if any, enemies if we minded our own fucking business.

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## Guest

> [/COLOR]
> Nope. I never said what they are doing is right. Just that we have to be there for our allies. If we don't plan on being there for them, we shouldn't have ever became allies with them.


Where is the treaty and what is the wording that promises that we will commit US troops at their discretion?

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## Guest

> You really buy Iran as a threat at any point?  I thought better of you, honestly. 
> 
> And yes, most of you Neocons do treat this shit as some sort of game.


He's not really a neocon...  ::shrugs::  He's young and has never lost a child or husband in war.  That jerks you up quick in life.

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## The XL

> [/COLOR]
> Nope. I never said what they are doing is right. Just that we have to be there for our allies. If we don't plan on being there for them, we shouldn't have ever became allies with them.
> 
> Thought this would be common sense.
> 
> 
> [COLOR=#333333]
> 
> You're right. It's not worth it. None of it is. But we became allies and we should be there for them.


We should break the treaties.  Soldiers shouldn't have to die because politicians are fuckwads.

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## The XL

> He's not really a neocon...  ::shrugs::  He's young and has never lost a child or husband in war.  That jerks you up quick in life.


Anyone who defends going to war for another country, to fight a country that is zero threat to us, regardless of circumstance, is a Neocon.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Anyone who defends going to war for another country, to fight a country that is zero threat to us, regardless of circumstance, is a Neocon.


Well, sure, if you want to strip the term of its meaning and slap it on people like Republicans slap the socialist label.

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## The XL

> Well, sure, if you want to strip the term of its meaning and slap it on people like Republicans slap the socialist label.


Not really.

You probably can't defend your assertion, but by all means, give it a shot.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> He's not really a neocon...  ::shrugs::  He's young and has never lost a child or husband in war.  That jerks you up quick in life.


Let him call me names if it helps him sleep at night. Let's all remember what name-calling is though:




> *Name-Calling* - A form of Verbal Abuse which people sometimes indulge in when their emotional thought processes override their rational thought processes
> The emotional mind can often have a "mind of its own" or "emotional intelligence" which operates independently of the logical mind. When there is no logical argument to back up what the emotional mind is telling us, emotional outbursts such as name-calling often result.


http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/NameCalling.html

Just his own way of showing us all that he has no proper argument left to make. 
.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> Anyone who defends going to war for another country, to fight a country that is zero threat to us, regardless of circumstance, is a Neocon.


Thanks for admitting that you lack any substantial, logic-based, productive discussion to contribute.

One more time and I'll put you on ignore.

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## ptif219

> The United States is a threat to Iran.


  You prove nothing other than you do not believe Iran is a danger to the world

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Not really.
> 
> You probably can't defend your assertion, but by all means, give it a shot.


Do you believe in charity?

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## ptif219

> Muslims in Afghanistan were responsible for the death of my husband.  I'll leave it at that so I don't get banned.


  Then why are you defending them for trying to arm terrorists against Israel.  Maybe you hate Israel more than the Islamic terrorists

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## ptif219

> Zero threat.


  Then have no clue.  These weapons Israel destroyed came from iran

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> You prove nothing other than you do not believe Iran is a danger to the world


If Iran is a danger to the world, the world is full of pussies.

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## ptif219

> I'd have no problem with what Israel is doing if we weren't attached to it.


  With Obama as president we are not attached to it

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## ptif219

> I 100% agree.  Israel has every right to defend itself, *but* it should defend itself and act as though the United States will not be involved.  If they thought they were alone in their defense, they would probably do things a lot differently.
> 
> I'm not saying we should not support allies, but we should not support them when they preemptively strike or using  OUR troops.  Send them food and medical supplies, take in refugees, etc.


  Where has Israel done anything to make you think they expect Obama to help.  better question is what has Obama done to make you think he will help Israel

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## ptif219

> I don't want to send them anything other than food and medical stuff.  Sending them weaponry causes blowback.
> 
> I just want to leave there.  And I'm tired when Neocons with IQs in the double digits call me weak on terror or claim I support the enemy because I don't want people to die because of useless wars with 3rd world small fry.  You guys buy everything these politicians sell, you, it's pathetic.  They're fucking puppets for bankers, the military industrial complex, and other special interests.  What they say has no merit.  They make shit up.
> 
> They'll never nuke us.  Even if they wanted to.  It would be suicide.  Contrary to popular belief, they don't want to be wiped off the map.


  You don't understand these people are nut cases.  You forget that Iran supplied our enemies in Iraq and we did nothing.  Why would they fear us?

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## ptif219

> This is what you see on the news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see pictures on my wall of a young smiling face and an empty closet of clothes.  
> 
> 
> If we're sending people to die, it should be in defense of OUR nation, in defense of OUR people, and it should be because we were attacked.


  Then tell Obama to stay out of Syria and not help Al Qaeda there

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## ptif219

> We don't need allies, we're the most powerful country in the world many times over.
> 
> Hell, we wouldn't have many, if any, enemies if we minded our own fucking business.


  Obama will make sure we do not stay the strongest

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## garyo

I think we give Israel any weaponry that they need, medical support, food, money but no soldiers, I'm over the killing of our troops for other countries and the most fucked up religion on earth that teaches hate, I have family in Israel and I sure don't want any harm to come to them but enough is enough, we can nuke Iran from the pentagons living room. By the way the bilderberg meetings are the end of the month and I haven't received my invitation as of yet, has anyone gotten theirs, I'm starting to feel slighted.

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## The XL

> Thanks for admitting that you lack any substantial, logic-based, productive discussion to contribute.
> 
> One more time and I'll put you on ignore.


How have I done such a thing?  You think treaties supersede this country and the lives of our soldiers.  That speaks volumes.

I don't care if you put me on ignore.  Have at it.

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## ptif219

> Anyone who defends going to war for another country, to fight a country that is zero threat to us, regardless of circumstance, is a Neocon.


  The lets get out of the UN and stop all foreign aid to

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## The XL

> Let him call me names if it helps him sleep at night. Let's all remember what name-calling is though:
> 
> 
> http://outofthefog.net/CommonBehaviors/NameCalling.html
> 
> Just his own way of showing us all that he has no proper argument left to make. 
> .


Read through your shit again.  You gave me a subtle insult first.

Guess you never had a proper argument to make in the first place, huh?

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## The XL

> The lets get out of the UN and stop all foreign aid to


I'm all for it.

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## ptif219

> If Iran is a danger to the world, the world is full of pussies.


  Not at all.  They have killed many through Hezbollah and many Americans died from weapons iran supplied in Iraq.  A nuke bomb in Israel would kill in the thousands

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## ptif219

> I'm all for it.


  Like most things it will not happen.  I would rather help Israel than give at no cost 20 F-16's to the Muslim Brotherhood terrorists as Obama is doing

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## The XL

I'd rather just cut all aid, period.

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## ptif219

> I'd rather just cut all aid, period.


  So would I but will not happen just like money to PBS and NPR and Planned Parenthood will never stop

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## Guest

> Then why are you defending them for trying to arm terrorists against Israel.  Maybe you hate Israel more than the Islamic terrorists


I am not defending them.  Show me where I said something nice about them.  Hand me the button to the nukes and the entire country of Afghanistan would cease to exist.

However, I don't think any more Americans should die for the wrong reasons.  Had we handled 911 differently my life would be 100% different right now as would the lives of other families, too, be complete and whole.  Had we put boots on the ground in ONLY Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan--had those troops in Afghanistan been able to complete that first mission, we would have our retribution and be done.

No American should die because of another country's interests.  

If that's not clear enough, I don't care enough about Israelis to allow us to be their lapdog.  I care about them no more, no less than I care about Mexico or Canada.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> Read through your shit again.  You gave me a subtle insult first.
> 
> Guess you never had a proper argument to make in the first place, huh?


Where's this "subtle insult" at, care to quote it?

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## Guest

> Then tell Obama to stay out of Syria and not help Al Qaeda there


I assure you, I want us involved in the ME not at all.

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## The XL

> Where's this "subtle insult" at, care to quote it?





> Let's get one thing straight here  dude, and it's nothing new, you already know it. Nobody here gives any  credit to Call of Duty for "realism," and I'd bet real hard cash money  that most people here don't even play it. So drop the bullshit  assumptions that we would base our perception of reality on something so  fake.
> 
> Israel is what people call a "strategic ally."
> 
> While Iran may not be a real big threat right now, we have to be there  for our allies. That's why we're called "allies." What if suddenly China  started threatening an attack on America? Would you want our allies to  be there for us or tell us to kiss their asses?
> *
> I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to know the answer to that one.*


I wouldn't care if our "allies" didn't support us, and I've made that clear.  You knew that, and wanted to take a shot at me.

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## Guest

> Not really.
> 
> You probably can't defend your assertion, but by all means, give it a shot.


We're all friends here.

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garyo (05-05-2013)

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## Guest

> Where's this "subtle insult" at, care to quote it?


You did kinda insult him and sometimes the ghosts of MGD possess you the next day.  We can all stay on good terms even talking about war.

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## Guest

> Where has Israel done anything to make you think they expect Obama to help.  better question is what has Obama done to make you think he will help Israel


The fact that he said we will, that Jews in the United States support Israel and the Democratic Party, his statements in Israel, etc.

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## The XL

> You did kinda insult him and sometimes the ghosts of MGD possess you the next day.  We can all stay on good terms even talking about war.


If he wants to take a shot at me, fine, but don't cry about it when you get one served back.  And to top it off, he makes the assertion that one who resorts to insults has no legitimate argument in the first place, which is even more funny because he was the one insulted me first.

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## Guest

I don't think he was understanding the illustration you were making, that it is akin to saying "war movie" or "Full Metal Jacket" for the modern generation. 

 It is easy to commit someone else's family member to war, not yours.

I think we should think about not what we would do, but what we would want our children to do.  Imagine it was your decision to fight another nation and it was your child going into combat alone against a member of the military of another nation--wouldn't you want it to be because a nation attacked us, not another country that we're allied with?

It's YOUR child on the line or YOUR husband...the person you love with every breath in your body, you are still okay with them going to a war that an ally of ours started?

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The XL (05-05-2013)

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## GrassrootsConservative

> If he wants to take a shot at me, fine, but don't cry about it when you get one served back.  And to top it off, he makes the assertion that one who results to insults have no legitimate argument in the first place, which is even more funny because he was the one insulted me first.


I did not insult you. Read it again. 




> *I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to know the answer to that one.*

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## The XL

I'm still not sure why a mere treaty with a parasitic country supersedes the lives of our soldiers, and is worth jeopardizing the safety of this country for.

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## The XL

> I did not insult you. Read it again.


And what if I disagree with what you said?  Does that make me less intelligent?

It was a well placed subtle insult.  Most people would not have recognized it.

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## Guest

> I did not insult you. Read it again.


I like you both, but I would take that as an insult ( "at least intelligent enough").  

However, it can stop now because we're all on the same side (I think) that things are fucked up and we shouldn't be over there.

Right?

Yes?


 :Big Grin:

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## GrassrootsConservative

> And what if I disagree with what you said?  Does that make me less intelligent?
> 
> It was a well placed subtle insult.  Most people would not have recognized it.


You're looking too deep. All I said was that I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to want our allies to be there for us if we need them.

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## GrassrootsConservative

> I like you both, but I would take that as an insult ( "at least intelligent enough").  
> 
> However, it can stop now because we're all on the same side (I think) that things are fucked up and we shouldn't be over there.
> 
> Right?
> 
> Yes?


Yes as far as that is concerned, but I think we should back Israel if they need us to. I get the feeling that you two don't think we should if they need us to.

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## Guest

> You're looking too deep. All I said was that I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to want our allies to be there for us if we need them.


LOL, you're cute.  You could say, _I hope you would want our allies to be there for us._

Come on, you know you were being a teensy bit pissy.  I was so pissed about the I "love Muslims" comment I would exploded had someone said one more word to me in the next ten seconds.

XL's dad died over these policies.  My husband, too.  It's harder when your life is personally affected.

----------


## Guest

> Yes as far as that is concerned, but I think we should back Israel if they need us to. I get the feeling that you two don't think we should if they need us to.


I think had Israel been sitting there, filing it's proverbial nails and chewing gum, and someone up and bombed them...yes, we should help in some way.

When they preemptively strike a nation, no.  They made that mess.  Clean it themselves.

----------


## The XL

> You're looking too deep. All I said was that I would hope at least you are intelligent enough to want our allies to be there for us if we need them.


Either I conform and agree with your point of view, or I am of lower intelligence.  It was an insult, intentional or not.  

It's whatever, I don't care either way.

----------


## The XL

> Yes as far as that is concerned, but I think we should back Israel if they need us to. I get the feeling that you two don't think we should if they need us to.


Why?  Iran and Syria aren't a threat to us.

Israel does us a lot more harm than good.  I don't see what is in it for us.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

> Why?  Iran and Syria aren't a threat to us.
> 
> Israel does us a lot more harm than good.  I don't see what is in it for us.


Pride?

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. If that means  backing up an ally then why shouldn't we do that?

----------


## Guest

> Pride?


My husband died.  Pride is a fucked up reason for him to have died.  You have no idea, NO IDEA, how painful it is to lose someone that you love, and to hear "pride"...

All you guys, be proud yourselves and pick up a gun to defend Israel.  Convert to Judaism and then apply for citizenship.

Christ..pride?

----------


## Guest

> Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. If that means  backing up an ally then why shouldn't we do that?


Who says it's the right thing?  NONE of us knows what's really going on in the world, the behind the scenes stuff...we are fed what they want us to know.

----------

The XL (05-05-2013)

----------


## Poe

Israel is our ally?

----------



----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Sometimes you just have to do the right thing. If that means  backing up an ally then why shouldn't we do that?


We should. But:

1) We should only be backing an ally when they do the right thing.
2) We should have no allies. Peace and friendship with all nations, alliance with none.
3) If we really must have allies, it needs to be an equal partnership, not us giving them everything and them giving us nothing.
4) America should not be picking sides in a conflict likevthe Arab-Israeli conflict.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

> Israel is our ally?


Yes.
They are our "Strategic ally."

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Yes.
> They are our "Strategic ally."


Israel is a "strategic ally"? You were never good at Risk or Stratego, were you?  :Tongue:

----------


## The XL

Strategic ally?   We shouldn't be in the Middle East in the first place.  We're there largely because of them.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

> Israel is a "strategic ally"? You were never good at Risk or Stratego, were you?


Look, if you don't know something, just look it up.

This is the internet, dude.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+israel+our+ally

----------


## Guest

> Yes.
> They are our "Strategic ally."


You never did explain where the treaty is or how they are our "strategic ally".

----------


## Guest

> Look, if you don't know something, just look it up.
> 
> This is the internet, dude.
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+israel+our+ally


That's not a list of treaties, that's a list with links of people's opinions.  We all have opinions.  They are like assholes.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

> You never did explain where the treaty is or how they are our "strategic ally".


I never talked about any treaty.

If you don't know something, you can look it up. See above link.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

Where did I mention any treaty?

----------


## Guest

> I never talked about any treaty.
> 
> If you don't know something, you can look it up. See above link.


You said that we had an alliance, you said we should keep to that, and they were an ally.  If we have no treaty, we have no obligations, ergo we can choose when we support our "ally" and in what manner.

Do you remember when we said "Pakistan" was our friend and ally?

----------


## Guest

> Where did I mention any treaty?


No, but you should have if you are urging us to commit our real, live humans in uniform to fight for a nation that does not know how to get along with anyone.

----------


## GrassrootsConservative

> No, but you should have if you are urging us to commit our real, live humans in uniform to fight for a nation that does not know how to get along with anyone.


I've never said anything about you committing your life to anything. Personally I think we should nuke the shit out of all those sandmonkeys and not land a single foot on their soil. I have thought so since 9/11. Is that more satisfactory?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Look, if you don't know something, just look it up.
> 
> This is the internet, dude.
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+israel+our+ally


I know what Israel is. They are an apostate state whose government gives the Jewish religion a bad name. But ally? No. They are certainly called an ally, but I've yet to find any treaty declaring them such, nor any action on their part befitting an ally.

And since the joke apparently went over your head, I'll be serious: there is nothing remotely "strategic" about having Israel as an "ally."

----------


## Guest

> I've never said anything about you committing your life to anything. Personally I think we should nuke the shit out of all those sandmonkeys and not land a single foot on their soil. I have thought so since 9/11. Is that more satisfactory?


Not my life, but the lives of men like my husband, yes, are involved when we commit our military.  

The reality you attempted to maintain with the "strategic ally" comment to @The XL should also include the reality that we will not nuke this region.  We would not be able to exploit its resources, nor would China or Russia take that sitting down if we were to pound them with nukes without them assaulting us first.  We will do like we did in Afghanistan and Iraq.  

Please, kindly tell @TheTemporaryBG that his body is needed to defend us because our strategic ally decided to bomb Syria and start some shit up.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I've never said anything about you committing your life to anything. Personally I think we should nuke the shit out of all those sandmonkeys and not land a single foot on their soil. I have thought so since 9/11. Is that more satisfactory?


No. The only satisfactory option related to nukes is destroying them forever.

----------



----------


## Roadmaster

America still has over 60 thousand Troops in Afghanistan.

----------



----------


## Trinnity

> Israel is our ally?


*Sock account*

 :Bannedsmile:

----------


## ptif219

> I am not defending them.  Show me where I said something nice about them.  Hand me the button to the nukes and the entire country of Afghanistan would cease to exist.
> 
> However, I don't think any more Americans should die for the wrong reasons.  Had we handled 911 differently my life would be 100% different right now as would the lives of other families, too, be complete and whole.  Had we put boots on the ground in ONLY Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan--had those troops in Afghanistan been able to complete that first mission, we would have our retribution and be done.
> 
> No American should die because of another country's interests.  
> 
> If that's not clear enough, I don't care enough about Israelis to allow us to be their lapdog.  I care about them no more, no less than I care about Mexico or Canada.


  Again show me proof Obama will defend Israel.  Obama has not been a friend to Israel his first term he never even went there

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/larry-g...age-in-israel/

----------


## ptif219

> I assure you, I want us involved in the ME not at all.


  Obama would support the Palestinians before Israel

----------


## ptif219

> The fact that he said we will, that Jews in the United States support Israel and the Democratic Party, his statements in Israel, etc.


  You mean his waiting over 4 years to go to Israel and then he lies?  Obama lies to Israel the same way he lies to us

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Obama would support the Palestinians before Israel


Completely unsupported conjecture.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Obama would support the Palestinians before Israel


 Obama has already said he approves of Israel's strike to defend themselves.

----------


## Mister D

I used to a much stronger supporter of Israel but my support has waned over the last few years.

----------


## The XL

Why should we blindly run into a globalist fabricated war because someone yells Israel?  

It's stupid.  It hurts us.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Why should we blindly run into a globalist fabricated war because someone yells Israel?  
> 
> It's stupid.  It hurts us.


Who said we were?

----------


## Roadmaster

Oh yea, seven more of our troops were killed yesterday. The ones they were training turned on them. This seemed to have wiped them off the  front page.

----------


## ptif219

> Completely unsupported conjecture.


  Not at all.  

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...estinians?lite

http://zoa.org/2013/03/10195161-zoa-...-for-no-peace/

----------


## The XL

> Who said we were?


When you listen to Obama and most of Congress talk about Israel, it sure sounds that way.

----------


## Mister D

> Why should we blindly run into a globalist fabricated war because someone yells Israel?  
> 
> It's stupid.  It hurts us.


I can definitely see the interest globalists would have in Israel. IMO, one of the major motives behind the war in Iraq was to undermine traditional Arab societies by exposing the region directly to Western liberalism. Israel has long served as a proxy of sorts in that regard. That said, what general American interest (i.e. an interest of the American people rather than the elite) such machinations are intended to serve eludes me.

----------


## Roadmaster

> When you listen to Obama and most of Congress talk about Israel, it sure sounds that way.


Israel can handle it. They pretty much destroyed the arsenal that would have been used against them.

----------


## ptif219

> Obama has already said he approves of Israel's strike to defend themselves.


  Obama also said last week Obamacare will be cheaper and is doing fine.  Do you believe that?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3015896/posts

----------


## ptif219

> Why should we blindly run into a globalist fabricated war because someone yells Israel?  
> 
> It's stupid.  It hurts us.


  What makes you think Obama will do that?

----------


## ptif219

> When you listen to Obama and most of Congress talk about Israel, it sure sounds that way.


  Not Obama.  He always blames Israel and gives Palestine a pass

----------


## Roadmaster

> Obama also said last week Obamacare will be cheaper and is doing fine.  Do you believe that?
> 
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3015896/posts


 He also said the troops would be home. Just saying what he said. :Smiley20:

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Not Obama.  He always blames Israel and gives Palestine a pass


Verbally, sure. But his actions are very pro-Israel. He voted against recognizing Palestine as a member-nation of the UN. He's given Israel all the weapons and tech they've asked for. We've punished every nation they asked us to.

Face it, Obama is Bibi's bitch.

----------

The XL (05-05-2013)

----------


## Trinnity

> I don't buy the Syria stuff.  Either way, it's not our business.  
> 
> Iran doesn't have nukes, but if they did, they still aren't a threat.  They couldn't hit us, and if they did, they'd be wiped off the map.
> 
> You guys have to stop buying all this nonsense propaganda you're being sold.  We're run by liars and criminals.


I hope you're right. I really do. <sigh> What a mess.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Iran doesn't have nukes, but if they did, they still aren't a threat.  They couldn't hit us, and if they did, they'd be wiped off the map.


 If they had something like chemical weapons that you could put on missals wouldn't it be wiser to sell them to Syria so they won't be attacked? That way Israel would still get hit hard.

----------


## ptif219

> Verbally, sure. But his actions are very pro-Israel. He voted against recognizing Palestine as a member-nation of the UN. He's given Israel all the weapons and tech they've asked for. We've punished every nation they asked us to.
> 
> Face it, Obama is Bibi's bitch.


  That is why Obama refused to meet Netanyahu when he was in New york


http://www.israelnewsagency.com/bara...a48032013.html

----------


## Guest

> That is why Obama refused to meet Netanyahu when he was in New york
> 
> 
> http://www.israelnewsagency.com/bara...a48032013.html


Consider the source of who is writing this mostly opinion piece.

My favorite line from it:

_Israel                  knows that it has the support of the American people. The support                  of the US Congress and the US Department of Defense._

----------


## ptif219

> Consider the source of who is writing this mostly opinion piece.
> 
> My favorite line from it:
> 
> _Israel                  knows that it has the support of the American people. The support                  of the US Congress and the US Department of Defense._


  The problem is they do not have the support of the president

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow



----------



----------


## Guest

> The problem is they do not have the support of the president


That was the cockiest article I've read in a long, long time.

----------


## Trinnity

> That is why Obama refused to meet Netanyahu when he was in New york
> 
> 
> http://www.israelnewsagency.com/bara...a48032013.html



From the link ^




> _Obama,                  a Christian, grew up as a Muslim in Indonesia. As a Muslim he                  learned to embrace Islam and expel all other religions. 
>                 These values were reinforced when he was in Hawaii receiving educational                  training from Frank Marshall Davis, a radical communist who hated                  Western colonialism. He later searched out and embraced academic                  mentors Rashid Khalidi and Edward Said, two men who focused on                  the Middle East with an abundance of hostility to Israel. And                  then we have his Christian mentor, Pastor Jeremiah Wright, one                  the most aggressive anti-Semites in the US._


The only part I disagree with is I think he's an atheist. But that's just my opinion.

----------


## Guest

If Huffington Post did a piece on Ted Cruz or Rand Paul wouldn't anyone it for "fact"?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> If Huffington Post did a piece on Ted Cruz or Rand Paul wouldn't anyone it for "fact"?


Naturally, but this is the Israel News Agency and it's positive about Israel and negative about Obama.

----------


## ptif219

> That was the cockiest article I've read in a long, long time.


  Yet you do not show where it is wrong

----------


## ptif219

> From the link ^
> 
> The only part I disagree with is I think he's an atheist. But that's just my opinion.


  He maybe an atheist but the article shows his history

----------

Trinnity (05-06-2013)

----------


## ptif219

> If Huffington Post did a piece on Ted Cruz or Rand Paul wouldn't anyone it for "fact"?


  It would be simple to prove it wrong if it was not factual.

----------


## ptif219

> Naturally, but this is the Israel News Agency and it's positive about Israel and negative about Obama.


  Yet where is the article false?

----------


## Guest

> Yet you do not show where it is wrong


Show where what is wrong?  What accusation was made except that the American President didn't bow and scrape quite as much as normal.  I'm sure he'll bow when appropriate hereafter--it was such a scathing article and all.

----------


## Guest

> It would be simple to prove it wrong if it was not factual.


No, it would be difficult to prove if it is not factual as you cannot prove a negative.

----------


## ptif219

> Show where what is wrong?  What accusation was made except that the American President didn't bow and scrape quite as much as normal.  I'm sure he'll bow when appropriate hereafter--it was such a scathing article and all.


  It was accurate about Obama's history which the left either does not know or ignores

----------

Trinnity (05-06-2013)

----------


## ptif219

> No, it would be difficult to prove if it is not factual as you cannot prove a negative.


  It is easy to prove a lie.  Obama is proven a liar almost daily

----------

Trinnity (05-06-2013)

----------


## Guest

> It is easy to prove a lie.  Obama is proven a liar almost daily


You cannot prove someone's intentions unless you have psychic powers and can read minds.  We still give a shit ton of aid to Israel, we still "visit", he's said they are our "friend", etc.

The type of relationship they are bitching about--multiple visits, etc,--he hasn't done for any country.

I don't like Obama.  I think he's a Constitutional terror, but I'm tired of this attitude that Israel is the 51st state in our union with powers of diplomacy for us.  I'm a Christian, too, and while I work with Jews I don't interpret the Scriptures the same way.  God made a PEOPLE Israel that we are not to curse.  He didn't say that he made a country that we need to be obedient to.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

If I am going to die I'd like it to be in defense of my own nation or at least have the choice of whether or not I believe in another people enough to die for them.  Not sure the last time any of you spent six weeks in the heat without a shower getting shot at and unable to return fire or watching someone who was just a little sloppy lose a leg or foot but its not a fun experience.  I guess you want me to die for Israel it would be nice if you explained why my life and the lives of other Marines are worth less to you than pride and strategy.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (05-06-2013),The XL (05-06-2013)

----------


## ptif219

> You cannot prove someone's intentions unless you have psychic powers and can read minds.  We still give a shit ton of aid to Israel, we still "visit", he's said they are our "friend", etc.
> 
> The type of relationship they are bitching about--multiple visits, etc,--he hasn't done for any country.
> 
> I don't like Obama.  I think he's a Constitutional terror, but I'm tired of this attitude that Israel is the 51st state in our union with powers of diplomacy for us.  I'm a Christian, too, and while I work with Jews I don't interpret the Scriptures the same way.  God made a PEOPLE Israel that we are not to curse.  He didn't say that he made a country that we need to be obedient to.


  You can look at what he has done for 4 years

----------


## Guest

> You can look at what he has done for 4 years


You mean like continue to give a nation with a western cost of living and a large percentage of millionaires financial and military aid?

----------


## The XL

> If I am going to die I'd like it to be in defense of my own nation or at least have the choice of whether or not I believe in another people enough to die for them.  Not sure the last time any of you spent six weeks in the heat without a shower getting shot at and unable to return fire or watching someone who was just a little sloppy lose a leg or foot but its not a fun experience.  I guess you want me to die for Israel it would be nice if you explained why my life and the lives of other Marines are worth less to you than pride and strategy.


I don't want you dying, period.  Some of us civilians fight for you guys, the others wrap themselves in the flag and "support our troops,"but in reality, they don't give a fuck about you guys.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (05-06-2013)

----------


## Guest

BG's in the reserves now after having gone active duty because he's one of the ones that want to have a "retirement" from it.  I wish he'd just quit-quit.  We're in a state of total and constant war.

I could not take it if something bad happened to him.   :Frown:

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (05-06-2013)

----------


## ptif219

> You mean like continue to give a nation with a western cost of living and a large percentage of millionaires financial and military aid?


  Like putting us deep in debt while doing nothing about the economy and jobs

----------

michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## Guest

> Like putting us deep in debt while doing nothing about the economy and jobs


If we're that deep in debt with a bad economy and no jobs, why should we go to war on Israel's behalf?  Isn't that expensive?

----------

The XL (05-06-2013)

----------


## ptif219

> If we're that deep in debt with a bad economy and no jobs, why should we go to war on Israel's behalf?  Isn't that expensive?


  Why are we giving money to the Muslim brotherhood and giving them 20 F 16's

----------

michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## Guest

> Why are we giving money to the Muslim brotherhood and giving them 20 F 16's


Why are we supplying weapons to Syria?  Why did we give aid to Pakistan?  Why don't we care about the CIA giving Karzai billions he can't find?  Because some suits in a think tank somewhere think that this will help to create controllable states at some point in the future and enable the oligopolies they have predetermined are necessary to thrive.

----------


## Roadmaster

The Obama administration is providing an additional $100 million for humanitarian aid for displaced Syrians, officials said Wednesday, bringing to $510 million the total U.S. aid commitment since the civil war began more than two years ago. Yep Americans are broke but our tax money goes to others.

----------

michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## ptif219

> Why are we supplying weapons to Syria?  Why did we give aid to Pakistan?  Why don't we care about the CIA giving Karzai billions he can't find?  Because some suits in a think tank somewhere think that this will help to create controllable states at some point in the future and enable the oligopolies they have predetermined are necessary to thrive.


  I would worry about terrorist nations we give money and weapons to before Israel

----------


## Guest

> I would worry about terrorist nations we give money and weapons to before Israel


Why can't you worry about them all?  Do you have a worry limit?

----------


## ptif219

> Why can't you worry about them all?  Do you have a worry limit?


  Worry does nothing.  All I can do is wait for the next election while I watch my country destroyed because uninformed voters vote for color,letter behind name and the give me mentality the democrats have created

----------


## sooda

> Stick your head in the sand, XL, if you want to. But Iran either has nukes or will shortly and they're helping Syria murder it's people with poison gas. This is very serious. If we never stand up to the crazy-ass people like Iran, some day they will kill us. Because. They. Can.
> 
> They want to rule THE WORLD with Sharia Law. 
> 
> I don't have the answers. But I know they're a serious, deadly threat that is NOT gonna go away.


Bibi has claimed that Iran was six months from having nukes since 1996.. and even recently the Mossad says he's FOS.

And, in September he began kissing up to Russia and now is "neutral" on Assad.

----------


## michaelr

> Good.  
> 
> Someone with balls has to stand up to Iran. Israel has balls. <bowling balls>
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94400020130505


Yeah, Hezbollah and Iranian troops hit ISIS, so the allies of ISIS has to ''stand up to Iran''.

----------


## Roadmaster

> Yeah, Hezbollah and Iranian troops hit ISIS, so the allies of ISIS has to ''stand up to Iran''.


LOL netenyahoo just denied the holocaust. He said Hitler wasn't the one, it was the Palestine's. Hitler just wanted to deport them. There is an uproar in Israel over this. :Smiley ROFLMAO:  Wonder if he should be arrested.

----------

Invayne (10-23-2015),michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## michaelr

> LOL netenyahoo just denied the holocaust. He said Hitler wasn't the one, it was the Palestine's. Hitler just wanted to deport them. There is an uproar in Israel over this. Wonder if he should be arrested.


I was going to post the hell out of that. Merkel got pissed, she says ''oh no, that was us''.....

Oh man what a week!

----------

Invayne (10-23-2015)

----------


## sooda

> LOL netenyahoo just denied the holocaust. He said Hitler wasn't the one, it was the Palestine's. Hitler just wanted to deport them. There is an uproar in Israel over this. Wonder if he should be arrested.


Yeah.. Hitler began putting Jews in concentration camps in 1933 but Hitler was convince by the Mufti who he didn't know in a mere ten minute meeting in 1941 to pursue the Final Solution.

----------


## Roadmaster

> I was going to post the hell out of that. Merkel got pissed, she says ''oh no, that was us''.....
> 
> Oh man what a week!


 It was hilarious, he will say anything to justify killing pals for land. He is getting afraid though of DNA studies  the new one that just came out you know how they base their information on, won't be favorable for them. He is having to fight this now.

----------

Invayne (10-23-2015),michaelr (10-23-2015),sooda (10-23-2015)

----------


## sooda



----------


## michaelr

> 



There are no rebels, they're ISIS!

----------


## michaelr

Oh, and those US stikes in Oct are on power plants!!!!!!!!!! Helping ISIS!

----------


## Invayne

> LOL netenyahoo just denied the holocaust. He said Hitler wasn't the one, it was the Palestine's. Hitler just wanted to deport them. There is an uproar in Israel over this. Wonder if he should be arrested.


If he was in Germany, he would be. LOLOLOL!

----------

michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## Roadmaster

> I was going to post the hell out of that. Merkel got pissed, she says ''oh no, that was us''.....
> 
> Oh man what a week!


If anyone else had said this he would be arrested or forced out of the job

----------

Invayne (10-23-2015),michaelr (10-23-2015)

----------


## Northern Rivers

> LOL netenyahoo just denied the holocaust. He said Hitler wasn't the one, it was the Palestine's. Hitler just wanted to deport them. There is an uproar in Israel over this. Wonder if he should be arrested.


Here's the story. Maybe you should have read it.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-of...aid-to-hitler/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-neo-...-and-the-jews/

----------


## Roadmaster

> Here's the story. Maybe you should have read it.
> 
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-neo-...-and-the-jews/


 I did read it but I also heard his speech a few things they left out.

----------


## sooda

> Here's the story. Maybe you should have read it.
> 
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-of...aid-to-hitler/
> 
> http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-neo-...-and-the-jews/


Its a disgusting lie.. but very like Zionism. The Mufti met with Hitler for less than 15 minutes in 1941... By then 3 million Jews had been killed.

----------


## sooda

Quote by Hitler: " The Jews are the Conscience of the world - and as such, they have to be obliterated."  " Mein Kampf", 1925

----------


## Roadmaster

> Quote by Hitler: " The Jews are the Conscience of the world - and as such, they have to be obliterated."  " Mein Kampf", 1925


I have that book but the one before that he actually wrote was the best.

----------


## Taxcutter

> ...Iran and their *large* standing army.


Taxcutter asks:
You mean the large army that could only fight Saddam Hussein to a stalemate?

Like others in the region, Iran's army is not a field army - set up to fight other armies, but rather a police army - mostly engaged in suppressing its own people.

----------

