# Stuff and Things > COVID & VACCINES >  More bad news for the "vaccinated".

## WarriorRob

New Study:  - National File


The MSM keep going on about charging Putin with war crimes and crimes against humanity, what about this crap right here :Angry20: 



*A new study finds that all age groups under 50 years old are at greater risk of fatality after receiving a COVID-19 inoculation than an unvaccinated person is at risk of a COVID-19 death. All age groups under 80 years old have virtually no benefit from receiving a COVID-19 inoculation, and the younger ages incur significant risk.* :Geez:

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Big Bird (03-02-2022),Canadianeye (03-01-2022),Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Dubler9 (03-02-2022),Mr. Claws (03-02-2022),Old Ridge Runner (03-02-2022),Quark (03-01-2022)

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## Quark

It was all about power and control and depopulation. As time goes on we will see that. Will any elites pay, nope not going to happen.

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Canadianeye (03-01-2022),Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Dubler9 (03-04-2022),Old Ridge Runner (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-01-2022)

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## WarriorRob

> It was all about power and control and depopulation. As time goes on we will see that. Will any elites pay, nope not going to happen.


Doesn't seem like it, we have a two tier justice system in this country, one for the wealthy elites and one for the rest of us, how long can a Country last on such a screwed up system :Dontknow:

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Canadianeye (03-01-2022),Mr. Claws (03-02-2022),Old Ridge Runner (03-02-2022),Quark (03-01-2022)

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## Traddles

LOL! In my little corner of the real world, dozens of vaccinated sexagenarians and septuagenarians completed the half marathon I did last Saturday, and I'm sure many more completed the 10K and 5K distances. Probably, quite a few of them had also completed the half marathon and other distances at the previous run in the series that was two weeks earlier (myself among them). And BTW, I kept watch, there were no dead or dying runner and walkers laying along the two courses.

I know some of you all want to believe that Covid vaccines are dangerous, but the real world (e.g. funeral homes that aren't overwhelmed with "covid injured" deaths, despite hundreds of millions of Americans being vaccinated) contradicts that belief.

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Dubler9 (03-04-2022),Milt (03-02-2022)

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## Quark

> Doesn't seem like it, we have a two tier justice system in this country, one for the wealthy elites and one for the rest of us, how long can a Country last on such a screwed up system


Not very long which is why I say a break up is inevitable.

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Canadianeye (03-01-2022),Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Old Ridge Runner (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-01-2022)

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## Canadianeye

> New Study:  - National File
> 
> 
> The MSM keep going on about charging Putin with war crimes and crimes against humanity, what about this crap right here
> 
> 
> 
> *A new study finds that “all age groups under 50 years old are at greater risk of fatality after receiving a COVID-19 inoculation than an unvaccinated person is at risk of a COVID-19 death. All age groups under 80 years old have virtually no benefit from receiving a COVID-19 inoculation, and the younger ages incur significant risk.”*


Pretty sure I read today on this forum somewhere...that they've proven it is going to the liver, RNA > DNA and that is something "they" said couldn't happen. Was kind of busy today...but WTF?

How much more can these sniveling turds keep their atrocities under wraps?

I know too many people who have died to the jab, or stroked out to the jab, or being hospitalized at a very young age...due to the jab(s). Not Wuhan Flu, but the freaking jab(s)!!

For something is 99. something survivability rate to BEGIN with...Jesus.

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Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Mr. Claws (03-02-2022),Quark (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-01-2022)

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## WarriorRob

> LOL! In my little corner of the real world, dozens of vaccinated sexagenarians and septuagenarians completed the half marathon I did last Saturday, and I'm sure many more completed the 10K and 5K distances. Probably, quite a few of them had also completed the half marathon and other distances at the previous run in the series that was two weeks earlier (myself among them). And BTW, I kept watch, there were no dead or dying runner and walkers laying along the two courses.
> 
> I know some of you all want to believe that Covid vaccines are dangerous, but the real world (e.g. funeral homes that aren't overwhelmed with "covid injured" deaths, despite hundreds of millions of Americans being vaccinated) contradicts that belief.

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Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Mr. Claws (03-02-2022),Quark (03-02-2022)

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## WarriorRob

> Pretty sure I read today on this forum somewhere...that they've proven it is going to the liver, RNA > DNA and that is something "they" said couldn't happen. Was kind of busy today...but WTF?
> 
> How much more can these sniveling turds keep their atrocities under wraps?
> 
> I know too many people who have died to the jab, or stroked out to the jab, or being hospitalized at a very young age...due to the jab(s). Not Wuhan Flu, but the freaking jab(s)!!
> 
> For something is 99. something survivability rate to BEGIN with...Jesus.


Read the post from what's his raddles :Geez:

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Canadianeye (03-01-2022),Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022)

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## Canadianeye

> Read the post from what's his raddles


The LOL in front of every post about this obvious tragedy guy? He/she finds it funny apparently.

There are so many experts in the field, in so many countries now...I can't really be bothered too much with someone on a forum who closes their eyes to the realities of what has happened and what is being further exposed as happening.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows they release very important information (beyond what they have already released) during a fog of war type situation (Ukraine/Russia) that dominates news cycles.

I'll have to search for that article I read here today, ref the RNA/DNA liver etc findings.

Been the first day as Canadian citizen that I could go into a restaurant and sit down and have a beer and a meal...without Nazi a vax passport...so I've had a few barley pops to end my day.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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Conservative Libertarian (03-01-2022),Quark (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-01-2022)

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## Authentic

> LOL! In my little corner of the real world, dozens of vaccinated sexagenarians and septuagenarians completed the half marathon I did last Saturday, and I'm sure many more completed the 10K and 5K distances. Probably, quite a few of them had also completed the half marathon and other distances at the previous run in the series that was two weeks earlier (myself among them). And BTW, I kept watch, there were no dead or dying runner and walkers laying along the two courses.
> 
> I know some of you all want to believe that Covid vaccines are dangerous, but the real world (e.g. funeral homes that aren't overwhelmed with "covid injured" deaths, despite hundreds of millions of Americans being vaccinated) contradicts that belief.


Maybe runners such as yourself are less prone to illness?

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Dubler9 (03-04-2022),Quark (03-02-2022)

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## Traddles

> Maybe runners such as yourself are less prone to illness?


I appreciate your lack of ad hominem. In this thread it is refreshing. @Trinnity. The participants in those events may, on average, be more fit than average for the SF Bay Area, or may not. I can say, from personal knowledge, that the participants range from very overweight to 100 mile endurance runners (one of the aid station volunteers was recovering from doing 150 miles in 72 hours). And, as I said above, included men and women in the 60s and 70s.

But, as I also posted above, funeral homes - and hospitals as well - are not overwhelmed with people dead of or hospitalized with "Covid vaccine injuries". Nearly 216 million Americans have been fully vaccinated, and nearly 254 million have received at least one vaccine dose, both as of this morning. Borrowing from Clara Peller, *if Covid vaccines are dangerous, where are the dead bodies?! Why aren't hospitals overflowing with the "Covid-vaccine-injured"* Nothing in life is zero risk, but the real-life death risk from receiving a Covid vaccine is in the infield of the same ballpark as the death risk from getting out of bed in the morning.

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Authentic (03-02-2022),Milt (03-02-2022),potlatch (03-02-2022)

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## Trinnity

:Sofa:

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## Authentic

> I appreciate your lack of ad hominem. In this thread it is refreshing. @Trinnity. The participants in those events may, on average, be more fit than average for the SF Bay Area, or may not. I can say, from personal knowledge, that the participants range from very overweight to 100 mile endurance runners (one of the aid station volunteers was recovering from doing 150 miles in 72 hours). And, as I said above, included men and women in the 60s and 70s.
> 
> But, as I also posted above, funeral homes - and hospitals as well - are not overwhelmed with people dead of or hospitalized with "Covid vaccine injuries". Nearly 216 million Americans have been fully vaccinated, and nearly 254 million have received at least one vaccine dose, both as of this morning. Borrowing from Clara Peller, *if Covid vaccines are dangerous, where are the dead bodies?! Why aren't hospitals overflowing with the "Covid-vaccine-injured"* Nothing in life is zero risk, but the real-life death risk from receiving a Covid vaccine is in the infield of the same ballpark as the death risk from getting out of bed in the morning.


Hey, I am a runner. I am also unvaccinated.

I haven't done a half marathon, but my longest training run was 12 miles

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## Authentic

> Hey, I am a runner. I am also unvaccinated.
> 
> I haven't done a half marathon, but my longest training run was 12 miles


I also may be an alcoholic.

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## Authentic

I should join the Hash House Harriers - drinkers with a running problem.

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## Trinnity

:Boozing:

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Authentic (03-04-2022)

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## Milt

I had to laugh at the scare tactics and I’ll laugh at those who are incapable of reading comprehension.

From the OP article:



> I reported this week: Coronavirus vaccine maker Moderna Therapeutics issued an initial public offering (IPO) for its stock in 2018 that made now-disputed statements in an attempt to portray messenger RNA (mRNA) as an “impermanent” ingredient that does not change “genes or cell DNA.” But research has found that mRNA, which is a main ingredient in Moderna and also Pfizer-BioNTech Coronavirus injections, permanently affects and alters the human body. Moderna’s IPO spoke of “transformative medicines based on messenger RNA.”





They attack both major companies by stating that mRNA changes gene and cell DNA but they don’t, or won’t make the claim that Moderna or Pfizer vaccine actually does this.

So the obvious question is how full of it are they?

Two of the major vaccines get tied to a claim, it’s gobbled up by folks, yet it isn’t tied directly to being true about either.   I mean if it is then I am waiting for a third arm to grow as it changes my genes and DNA. 

More nonsense and garbage.  We must have invested in Putin’s Mobil crematories to dispose of all the dead bodies and such.

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## Dubler9

> New Study:  - National File
> 
> 
> The MSM keep going on about charging Putin with war crimes and crimes against humanity, what about this crap right here
> 
> 
> 
> *A new study finds that all age groups under 50 years old are at greater risk of fatality after receiving a COVID-19 inoculation than an unvaccinated person is at risk of a COVID-19 death. All age groups under 80 years old have virtually no benefit from receiving a COVID-19 inoculation, and the younger ages incur significant risk.*


Of course we the enlightened (TPF members) are not at all surprised. How is it that I, your average male, refused to take the vaccine because I surmised the content is the aforesaid post. That said: I do not judge any person who has taken the jabs based on their own reasoning.

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Quark (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-02-2022)

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## Mr. Claws

Went to my doctor yesterday, EVERYBODY MASKED, EVERYBODY IN OFFICE TRIPLE VAXXED, AND CHAIRS 6 FEET APART. If these snake-oils were as safe as a sip of distilled water, THERE'S THE UNDENIABLE, *STILL CAN CATCH IT AND STILL CAN  SPREAD IT!!!* But I guess we should be thankful to Covid for one thing, *APPARENTLY INFLUENZA NO LONGER EXISTS.*  :Rolls Eyes:

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Dubler9 (03-03-2022),Quark (03-02-2022),Swedgin (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-02-2022)

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## WarriorRob

> I appreciate your lack of ad hominem. In this thread it is refreshing. @Trinnity. The participants in those events may, on average, be more fit than average for the SF Bay Area, or may not. I can say, from personal knowledge, that the participants range from very overweight to 100 mile endurance runners (one of the aid station volunteers was recovering from doing 150 miles in 72 hours). And, as I said above, included men and women in the 60s and 70s.
> 
> But, as I also posted above, funeral homes - and hospitals as well - are not overwhelmed with people dead of or hospitalized with "Covid vaccine injuries". Nearly 216 million Americans have been fully vaccinated, and nearly 254 million have received at least one vaccine dose, both as of this morning. Borrowing from Clara Peller, *if Covid vaccines are dangerous, where are the dead bodies?! Why aren't hospitals overflowing with the "Covid-vaccine-injured"* Nothing in life is zero risk, but the real-life death risk from receiving a Covid vaccine is in the infield of the same ballpark as the death risk from getting out of bed in the morning.


You have a link proving 216 million americans are fully vaccinated and 254 million have received one dose? that seems very high numbers to me :Dontknow:

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Quark (03-02-2022)

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## Canadianeye

> You have a link proving 216 million americans are fully vaccinated and 254 have received one dose? that seems very high numbers to me


It's an unwinnable argument, when an ad hominem defense is engaged in - simply because it is impossible to know the current numbers (the authoritarian thugs control those), and, there is no length of time to gauge when nobody knows any long range effects of this "vaccine".

We are witnessing some short range effects.

So, basically, an ad hominem is all about logic and/or reasoned logic. Meaning, when someone says "How come all the bodies aren't piling up in the hospitals" it implies that "they" are using reasoned logic to say, look, no piling up bodies. However, no one knows the length of time that could or might transpire for these effects to happen. 1 year, 5 years...20 years. Which basically makes the "ad hominem" silly - since "the bodies" could be stacking up for decades - and - those who did this to us, control those statistics, for distribution and consumption to the populace.

We see numerous "bad effects" happening to people now. Every day. Myriad minor, moderate and extreme. Nobody knows for sure future effects. Personally, I strongly suspect there will be, but I also strongly suspect we will not be honestly informed of that, should it transpire that way.

All of them lie to us now, all of them censor those who disagree, now and throughout history...and they will in the future - without a doubt.

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Authentic (03-04-2022),FirstGenCanadian (03-03-2022),Mr. Claws (03-03-2022),Quark (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-02-2022)

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## WarriorRob

> It's an unwinnable argument, when an ad hominem defense is engaged in - simply because it is impossible to know the current numbers (the authoritarian thugs control those), and, there is no length of time to gauge when nobody knows any long range effects of this "vaccine".
> 
> We are witnessing some short range effects.
> 
> So, basically, an ad hominem is all about logic and/or reasoned logic. Meaning, when someone says "How come all the bodies aren't piling up in the hospitals" it implies that "they" are using reasoned logic to say, look, no piling up bodies. However, no one knows the length of time that could or might transpire for these effects to happen. 1 year, 5 years...20 years. Which basically makes the "ad hominem" silly - since "the bodies" could be stacking up for decades - and - those who did this to us, control those statistics, for distribution and consumption to the populace.
> 
> We see numerous "bad effects" happening to people now. Every day. Myriad minor, moderate and extreme. Nobody knows for sure future effects. Personally, I strongly suspect there will be, but I also strongly suspect we will not be honestly informed of that, should it transpire that way.
> 
> All of them lie to us now, all of them censor those who disagree, now and throughout history...and they will in the future - without a doubt.


I get your point. I was actually thinking the "vaccinated" that died were put into Covid death column :Dontknow:

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Quark (03-02-2022)

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## potlatch

Vaccination overview

From Our World in Data · Last updated: 2 days ago

United States
Doses given
Fully vaccinated
% of population fully vaccinated

553M
553,000,000



215M
215,000,000



65.2%

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Quark (03-02-2022),WarriorRob (03-03-2022)

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## Quark

> It's an unwinnable argument, when an ad hominem defense is engaged in - simply because it is impossible to know the current numbers (the authoritarian thugs control those), and, there is no length of time to gauge when nobody knows any long range effects of this "vaccine".
> 
> We are witnessing some short range effects.
> 
> So, basically, an ad hominem is all about logic and/or reasoned logic. Meaning, when someone says "How come all the bodies aren't piling up in the hospitals" it implies that "they" are using reasoned logic to say, look, no piling up bodies. However, no one knows the length of time that could or might transpire for these effects to happen. 1 year, 5 years...20 years. Which basically makes the "ad hominem" silly - since "the bodies" could be stacking up for decades - and - those who did this to us, control those statistics, for distribution and consumption to the populace.
> 
> We see numerous "bad effects" happening to people now. Every day. Myriad minor, moderate and extreme. Nobody knows for sure future effects. Personally, I strongly suspect there will be, but I also strongly suspect we will not be honestly informed of that, should it transpire that way.
> 
> All of them lie to us now, all of them censor those who disagree, now and throughout history...and they will in the future - without a doubt.


I agree 100%.

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WarriorRob (03-03-2022)

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## Milt

> It's an unwinnable argument, when an ad hominem defense is engaged in - simply because it is impossible to know the current numbers (the authoritarian thugs control those), and, there is no length of time to gauge when nobody knows any long range effects of this "vaccine".
> 
> We are witnessing some short range effects.
> 
> So, basically, an ad hominem is all about logic and/or reasoned logic. Meaning, when someone says "How come all the bodies aren't piling up in the hospitals" it implies that "they" are using reasoned logic to say, look, no piling up bodies. However, no one knows the length of time that could or might transpire for these effects to happen. 1 year, 5 years...20 years. Which basically makes the "ad hominem" silly - since "the bodies" could be stacking up for decades - and - those who did this to us, control those statistics, for distribution and consumption to the populace.
> 
> We see numerous "bad effects" happening to people now. Every day. Myriad minor, moderate and extreme. Nobody knows for sure future effects. Personally, I strongly suspect there will be, but I also strongly suspect we will not be honestly informed of that, should it transpire that way.
> 
> All of them lie to us now, all of them censor those who disagree, now and throughout history...and they will in the future - without a doubt.


If you recognize could and might and attach 1, 5 or 20 years then the argument is disingenuous at best as it could or might never happen.

Its like saying you almost won 20 million dollars.   It just doesn’t matter because almost never happened.

In 5 years there’s enough change in normal life you can develop all sorts of ailments.  Whether they are covid caused, genetic, environmental who knows.  It’s easy to have a bogey man though living rent free in the head.

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potlatch (03-03-2022)

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## Canadianeye

> If you recognize could and might and attach 1, 5 or 20 years then the argument is disingenuous at best as it could or might never happen.
> 
> Its like saying you almost won 20 million dollars.   It just doesn’t matter because almost never happened.
> 
> In 5 years there’s enough change in normal life you can develop all sorts of ailments.  Whether they are covid caused, genetic, environmental who knows.  It’s easy to have a bogey man though living rent free in the head.


So, just for the record, produce now what a very significant portion of the world wants to hear...many of whom are people who took the vaccinations, currently regret that...and are not going to take anymore.

There will *definitely* be no long term negative effects from taking the different vaccinations.

Cite your qualifications and we'll see if we can get it to go viral on one of the numerous propaganca networks.

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## Milt

> So, just for the record, produce now what a very significant portion of the world wants to hear...many of whom are people who took the vaccinations, currently regret that...and are not going to take anymore.
> 
> There will *definitely* be no long term negative effects from taking the different vaccinations.
> 
> Cite your qualifications and we'll see if we can get it to go viral on one of the numerous propaganca networks.


Cite your qualification that you can prove without a doubt the vaccine is doing all these long term affects at 5 and 20 years?

I am not definitely not saying the vaccine isnt currently causing some issues and in the future it wont either.   However nobody knows the scale, good or bad, of how this plays out.   

We currently have very bad reporting.  Both from our government officials and through poor systems such as Vaers.   We have seen claims with no proof, we have seen claims debunked.  We have also see some claims that are truth.  Some that leave you scratching your head because you just dont know.

What is bad and it seems to be both sides is just going with speculation with no proof whatsoever.   I get people stubbed their big toe and it hurt, but its probably not the vaccine.   I get people have anxiety really?  Going to blame a shot for the fear and worry.

I am more interested in the heart conditions, the blood clots.  The post Motrin stuff.  But when we raise questions it seems those answers arent available.  Whether by design or not the articles make their way to the net. Hard to imagine supporting data is the only thing stopping at road blocks.

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## FirstGenCanadian

For anyone who wants the clinical proof, you will find it here.

https://www.mdpi.com/1467-3045/44/3/73/htm

This is dated February 25, 2022

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## WarriorRob

> Vaccination overview
> 
> From Our World in Data · Last updated: 2 days ago
> 
> United States
> Doses given
> Fully vaccinated
> % of population fully vaccinated
> 
> ...


65.2% of americans that terrified of a virus that has a 99% survivability rate, God help us all.

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Mr. Claws (03-03-2022)

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## Canadianeye

> Cite your qualification that you can prove without a doubt the vaccine is doing all these long term affects at 5 and 20 years?
> 
> I am not definitely not saying the vaccine isn’t currently causing some issues and in the future it won’t either.   However nobody knows the scale, good or bad, of how this plays out.   
> 
> We currently have very bad reporting.  Both from our government officials and through poor systems such as Vaers.   We have seen claims with no proof, we have seen claims debunked.  We have also see some claims that are truth.  Some that leave you scratching your head because you just don’t know.
> 
> What is bad and it seems to be both sides is just going with speculation with no proof whatsoever.   I get people stubbed their big toe and it hurt, but it’s probably not the vaccine.   I get people have anxiety… really?  Going to blame a shot for the fear and worry.
> 
> I am more interested in the heart conditions, the blood clots.  The post Motrin stuff.  But when we raise questions it seems those answers aren’t available.  Whether by design or not the articles make their way to the net…. Hard to imagine supporting data is the only thing stopping at road blocks.


You've made my point Milt, and appreciate your honesty.

As I said, an *ad hominen defense* regarding this, especially citing that bodies should be stacking up in funeral homes and hospitals should be overflowing...is ridiculously inadequate - given the fact NOBODY knows the long range effects of these various vaccinations.

For someone to claim this as evidence (without possibly knowing long term health effects), as supposed validation via reasoned logic, aka ad hominen...is spurious at best, and duplicitous at worst.

There is currently a lot of evidence of this vaccination - currently - producing a lot of harmful effects, and, it's only been a little over a year, and, they have been censoring, and, they have been caught in lies, and, they are in charge of the actual real statistics now and in the future, and the proverbial "they" ALL, ALL of them from Big Pharma to the politicians to their purchased medias and even the insurance companies - have a very, very, very bad historical track record on fucking over the people for their personal gains.

You can believe them if you wish, although I cannot imagine why you would, but, that is on you for suddenly - miraculously - having some hope of character and honesty in these worst of the worst cretins that are running this global vaccination program.

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## Dubler9

You don't need numbers. This has never been about numbers as far as I am concerned. We (I) do not have access to numbers. If Armstrong said he met Jesus on the Moon - I know for a fact I was not there. I can never say 100% he is lying and wrong. I can deduce, using my own life experience and reasoning that in all probability Armstrong did not meet Jesus. 
In UK we had one of the biggest Flu epidemics during 2017/18. Mutli thousand of people died from it, above the normal numbers for death from Flu -which is every year. This was not in the news headlines. We did not have to lock-down. We did not have the police operating as government agents.
Its not what it is called - Flu - Covid - Corona - scabby throat disease - or whatever. The main and only concern is its potential or actual high level threat to life. 
2 things: Boris and his pals celebrating Christmas via a big party - no masks, no distancing, no tests. and Major sporting events with hundreds of thousands of people gathering at the stadiums - no masks - no distancing - no tests. !!!
Yet outside the grounds the rest of us are policed by a pseudo Gestapo - breaches result in arrest, huge fines, loss of job. and more. 
As I said before - a woman in England had a call from 3 uniformed police officers early in the morning. They went to her bedroom, handcuffed her and took her away - in front of upset husband and crying daughters. 
THIS IS ON VIDEO, RECORDED BY THE DAUGHTERS.
What was her offence? MAKING A VIDEO OF BRISTOL HOSPITAL (inside) COMPLETELY EMPTY !!!! FOLLOWING REPORTS THAT HOSPITALS CAN NOT COPE BECAUSE OF COVID PATIENTS.!!
She is a nurse of 20 years service. She was not a protester or rebel - she wanted the truth to be known.
The video was removed by Google and Facebook very quickly. 
So I dont care what the statistics are. I am not stupid.

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## Mr. Claws

> You don't need numbers. This has never been about numbers as far as I am concerned. We (I) do not have access to numbers. If Armstrong said he met Jesus on the Moon - I know for a fact I was not there. I can never say 100% he is lying and wrong. I can deduce, using my own life experience and reasoning that in all probability Armstrong did not meet Jesus. 
> In UK we had one of the biggest Flu epidemics during 2017/18. Mutli thousand of people died from it, above the normal numbers for death from Flu -which is every year. This was not in the news headlines. We did not have to lock-down. We did not have the police operating as government agents.
> Its not what it is called - Flu - Covid - Corona - scabby throat disease - or whatever. The main and only concern is its potential or actual high level threat to life. 
> 2 things: Boris and his pals celebrating Christmas via a big party - no masks, no distancing, no tests. and Major sporting events with hundreds of thousands of people gathering at the stadiums - no masks - no distancing - no tests. !!!
> Yet outside the grounds the rest of us are policed by a pseudo Gestapo - breaches result in arrest, huge fines, loss of job. and more. 
> As I said before - a woman in England had a call from 3 uniformed police officers early in the morning. They went to her bedroom, handcuffed her and took her away - in front of upset husband and crying daughters. 
> THIS IS ON VIDEO, RECORDED BY THE DAUGHTERS.
> What was her offence? MAKING A VIDEO OF BRISTOL HOSPITAL (inside) COMPLETELY EMPTY !!!! FOLLOWING REPORTS THAT HOSPITALS CAN NOT COPE BECAUSE OF COVID PATIENTS.!!
> She is a nurse of 20 years service. She was not a protester or rebel - she wanted the truth to be known.
> ...


"*THERE ARE LIES, DAMNED LIES, AND STATISTICS"!*

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## Milt

> You've made my point Milt, and appreciate your honesty.
> 
> As I said, an *ad hominen defense* regarding this, especially citing that bodies should be stacking up in funeral homes and hospitals should be overflowing...is ridiculously inadequate - given the fact NOBODY knows the long range effects of these various vaccinations.
> 
> For someone to claim this as evidence (without possibly knowing long term health effects), as supposed validation via reasoned logic, aka ad hominen...is spurious at best, and duplicitous at worst.
> 
> There is currently a lot of evidence of this vaccination - currently - producing a lot of harmful effects, and, it's only been a little over a year, and, they have been censoring, and, they have been caught in lies, and, they are in charge of the actual real statistics now and in the future, and the proverbial "they" ALL, ALL of them from Big Pharma to the politicians to their purchased medias and even the insurance companies - have a very, very, very bad historical track record on fucking over the people for their personal gains.
> 
> You can believe them if you wish, although I cannot imagine why you would, but, that is on you for suddenly - miraculously - having some hope of character and honesty in these worst of the worst cretins that are running this global vaccination program.


My opinion…..

You get ad hominem comments due to your side giving them as well and making it easy to reciprocate.

There’s a lot of speculation this vaccine is production harmful affects.  There’s very little data to back it up.  And data isn’t Mercola.   That’s a shit show.

I am not opposed to data, where the results are good or bad, but you have to have data to back it up.  For example the embalmers findings.  Where’s the confirmation from the autopsies?  Where’s the actual numbers of patients  instead of a percent?  I want to know those numbers.   Course the more scary numbers games scenarios are used to scare folks.   Ask for data… no surprise you don’t get it.

At this point I don’t trust anything from either side.  If John Hopkins produced a study I would read it, but we should see verification from other institutions.  That’s not saying their study would be wrong.  It’s just saying verify.  And if you think I believe the government numbers… even at a rate of private institutions…. Well I’d say you have rocks for brains.  

The government will jerk you around, big pharma will jerk you around, the media will certainly jerk you around and of course we feel obligated to do the same.  So no real surprise in that.

The real point is the vaccine hasn’t been proven to be ineffective.   Sure you can still catch and transmit it.  I received flu shots years ago…. Course you could still get the flu.   The catch all of it reduces the symptoms /affects.   Well how the hell do you prove or disprove it?  Great marketing on their part.  But in any real sense I’d question that claim too.  The “vaccine” definition is a troubling change.  Because in all honesty this current form is more a flu shot than a “traditionally” defined use of the word vaccine.

The TLDR.
Both sides use snide and as hominem comments.
Both sides lack good data
Everyone jerks everyone around
Vaccine and how we all view is different.  There’s not enough buckets for defining that one.
Without data all you have is opinion.  If you have bad data in you get shitty results out.

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potlatch (03-03-2022)

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## QuaseMarco

> My opinion…..
> 
> You get ad hominem comments due to your side giving them as well and making it easy to reciprocate.
> 
> There’s a lot of speculation this vaccine is production harmful affects.  There’s very little data to back it up.  And data isn’t Mercola.   That’s a shit show.
> 
> I am not opposed to data, where the results are good or bad, but you have to have data to back it up.  For example the embalmers findings.  Where’s the confirmation from the autopsies?  Where’s the actual numbers of patients  instead of a percent?  I want to know those numbers.   Course the more scary numbers games scenarios are used to scare folks.   Ask for data… no surprise you don’t get it.
> 
> At this point I don’t trust anything from either side.  If John Hopkins produced a study I would read it, but we should see verification from other institutions.  That’s not saying their study would be wrong.  It’s just saying verify.  And if you think I believe the government numbers… even at a rate of private institutions…. Well I’d say you have rocks for brains.  
> ...


I have only one thing to say:

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## Milt

> I have only one thing to say:


You run into a lot of things don’t you?


Then probably rush to the Vaers database and blame the vaccine.

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## FirstGenCanadian

9A9010FB-09B7-4E00-919C-096D3E89CED3.jpeg

According to the John Hopkins data, of people infected, and deaths, worldwide.

People infected : 441,652,655. So lets spell that out.  Four hundred, forty one million, six hundred fifty two thousand, six hundred fifty five people across the planet, of just shy of 8,000,000,000 people.  That's eight billion people.  So the infected population works out to 0.07% of the worlds population.

COVID deaths: 5,980,041.  Five million, nine hundred eighty thousand, forty one, people have died. 

Only 1.4% of people infected have died.  Assuming their numbers are accurate.  That means there is a 98.6% chance of surviving the SARS-COV-2 virus.  And the chances of getting infected is 0.07%.

But, yeah, the need to get jabbed is so important.  

I want the pro-vaccine thumpers to tell me something, do you all wear condoms religiously as well, every damn time??  If you say you do, you are lying!

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Canadianeye (03-04-2022),Swedgin (03-04-2022)

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## phoenyx

> Only 1.4% of people infected have died.  Assuming their numbers are accurate.


A very dangerous assumption. From what I've read, I've come to believe that the Cov 2 virus doesn't even exist:


Misinterpretation VIRUS II (2) by Dr. Stefan Lanka - Beginning and End of the Corona Crisis - Yummy.Doctor Holistic Health Education


That doesn't mean that some aren't dying from something new, but it doesn't need to entail a virus. I get into one alternative theory as to the cause here:


*Evidence that Covid 19 may have started due to 5G networks | The Politics Forums*

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## FirstGenCanadian

> A very dangerous assumption. From what I've read, I've come to believe that the Cov 2 virus doesn't even exist:
> 
> 
> Misinterpretation VIRUS II (2) by Dr. Stefan Lanka - Beginning and End of the Corona Crisis - Yummy.Doctor Holistic Health Education
> 
> 
> That doesn't mean that some aren't dying from something new, but it doesn't need to entail a virus. I get into one alternative theory as to the cause here:
> 
> 
> *Evidence that Covid 19 may have started due to 5G networks | The Politics Forums*


I am just using a site people would go to, for the fear porn.  Just so there's no accusation of ad hominem.

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## QuaseMarco

> You run into a lot of things don’t you?
> 
> 
> Then probably rush to the Vaers database and blame the vaccine.


I guess you misunderstood............... that's a depiction of you.

Vast changes in VAERS reports is very strong evidence. But you just keep your blinders on. 

Do *not* expect any further response from me Milt. It's impossible to discuss with the willfully blind.

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Authentic (03-04-2022)

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## Milt

> I guess you misunderstood............... that's a depiction of you.
> 
> Vast changes in VAERS reports is very strong evidence. But you just keep your blinders on. 
> 
> Do *not* expect any further response from me Milt. It's impossible to discuss with the willfully blind.


Ahh you’ve said that before that you won’t respond to me and here we are… again.

Everyone likes to tout Vaers data, whether it’s improved or not… it’s still as reported and not we verified.

This is a huge problem and when you use it then it’s bad data in and bad out.  Now we all recognize not all of it is bad data.  But some is and when that’s included in the calculus the answer comes out incorrect.

Your depiction of me misses on that front.  You think I am willfully blind because I won’t follow the idea that the vaccine is the cause of everything.   That’s not true either.  I just want solid proof it is.  Not speculation or guessing or suspicions/assumptions.  I have a good friend that had to go on heart medication a month or so after his vaccines in 2021.   He’s just getting back to normal (somewhat) where he’s down to a few pills a week verses the 14-16 he was taking.  The only thing changed for him was the vaccine.  But just because we sit and talk about it being the most likely cause neither of us can prove that it was and the doctors can’t say / or won’t say it was either.   So where do you put that type of data that you have strong feelings but can’t confirm.

This is like accusations of someone stealing.  You have a strong suspicion of them being the culprit but you just can’t prove it because there aren’t witnesses or a camera to catch them.

We know both sides are playing the game of fear.   We know covid causes somethings.  We can read Vaers and know some of it has to be nonsense.    We also know some has to be true as well.  But just how much?  And that’s the rub.  When you put it altogether there is too much that doesn’t fit.

Now I don’t go and make personal attacks because I don’t like what you said.   I try to attack the argument of it.  Maybe you don’t understand there can be more than two viewpoints of covid or the vaccine.  I am pro choice on it.   I want good verified data.  And I don’t subscribe to the idea it’s all we got.   Well if it’s all we got then we a system that isn’t very good and should fix it.   From what I have seen Vaers hasn’t been fixed.   So you can use it if you like and when referenced broadly I’ll keep complaining about it. When it’s used with specifics I’ll look at it as well.  But at this point just because someone says it’s the vaccine doesn’t make true or untrue.

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## Swedgin

> I want the pro-vaccine thumpers to tell me something, do you all wear condoms religiously as well, every damn time?? If you say you do, you are lying!


DUDE!

I wear a condom at ALL times!  (Hey, a feller like me has to be ready!  I don' lucky all that often!)

Kinda sucks when I have to pee, though.

Glad I wear Depends!


In all seriousness, I have had all the vaccines, and, thus far, NO side effects.  (Other than my hair falling out, and my waistline expanding!)

Have yet to catch the Covid.  (Was really hoping to catch the weak, Omicron variant, while vaccinated, so that I could develop the UBER "vaccine:" Natural Immunity!!!)

All that said, I have been against Vaccine Mandates since the beginning.  

"Your body, your choice, right?"  (Or does that only matter when an invasive fetal tissue growth is involved?)

As for Masks!  I think those should become standard fashion in our society.  Who cares if they work?  They would look cool, and I was SO fortunate I had my mask on that time I went to the store, and my fly was open!!!

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FirstGenCanadian (03-04-2022),Milt (03-04-2022)

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## phoenyx

> I am just using a site people would go to, for the fear porn.  Just so there's no accusation of ad hominem.


Alright, but I suspect that you don't know what ad hominem means. You can't be accused of an ad hominem attack just because of your source. From Merriam Webster:

**
*Definition of ad hominem* (Entry 1 of 2)


1*:* appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellectan _ad hominem_ argument

2*:* marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions mademade an _ad hominem_ personal attack on his rival


**

Source:
Ad hominem Definition  Meaning - Merriam-Webster

----------


## FirstGenCanadian

> Alright, but I suspect that you don't know what ad hominem means. You can't be accused of an ad hominem attack just because of your source. From Merriam Webster:
> 
> **
> *Definition of ad hominem*
> 
>  (Entry 1 of 2)
> 
> 
> 1*:* appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellectan _ad hominem_ argument
> ...


No, I understand just fine, thank you.  It is you, who failed to comprehend, my posts.

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## phoenyx

> No, I understand just fine, thank you.  It is you, who failed to comprehend, my posts.


What did I fail to understand in your post?

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## Authentic

> I get your point. I was actually thinking the "vaccinated" that died were put into Covid death column


Of course. They got the COVID vaccine, so their deaths were "COVID related".

It is like convicted criminals being "justice-involved" --just like cops.

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WarriorRob (03-04-2022)

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## Authentic

> Ahh you’ve said that before that you won’t respond to me and here we are… again.
> 
> Everyone likes to tout Vaers data, whether it’s improved or not… it’s still as reported and not we verified.
> 
> This is a huge problem and when you use it then it’s bad data in and bad out.  Now we all recognize not all of it is bad data.  But some is and when that’s included in the calculus the answer comes out incorrect.
> 
> Your depiction of me misses on that front.  You think I am willfully blind because I won’t follow the idea that the vaccine is the cause of everything.   That’s not true either.  I just want solid proof it is.  Not speculation or guessing or suspicions/assumptions.  I have a good friend that had to go on heart medication a month or so after his vaccines in 2021.   He’s just getting back to normal (somewhat) where he’s down to a few pills a week verses the 14-16 he was taking.  The only thing changed for him was the vaccine.  But just because we sit and talk about it being the most likely cause neither of us can prove that it was and the doctors can’t say / or won’t say it was either.   So where do you put that type of data that you have strong feelings but can’t confirm.
> 
> This is like accusations of someone stealing.  You have a strong suspicion of them being the culprit but you just can’t prove it because there aren’t witnesses or a camera to catch them.
> ...


All that over a .jpg of a man blinded by wearing a mask wrong?

I am perfectly happy wearing _my_ tin foil hat.

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Milt (03-04-2022)

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