# Stuff and Things > The Pub >  Race Realism

## Maximatic

Do all race realists believe that races should remain separate?

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## The XL



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Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-13-2013)

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

Bookmarked

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## Guest

What's a race realist?

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Archer (04-30-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-13-2013)

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## Maximatic

> What's a race realist?


They believe that the differences between races are real and genetic including traits like intelligence.

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## The XL

> They believe that the differences between races are real and genetic including traits like intelligence.


A lot of those things are environmental things mistaken as race traits.

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## Guest

What is "race"?  Genetically, what is the difference in DNA?

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## Gemini

Intelligence, self control, predisposition for certain activities...  Many things are on the table.  My take on culture is that it is largely based upon the race of the people.  However in order for it to develop naturally it requires isolation at first and develops slowly over time to match the genetics predispostions of the people in question.  

That being said, culture can change when another culture arises, or it can clash and create conflict.

Do I think races should be separate from one another?  Well, I have seen and experienced first hand both homogenous groups, and diverse groups.  The homogenous groups tend to have fewer problems regarding interactions with each other with exceptions.  Not politically correct of me, but I give a flying f*** about PC parameters of dialogue.

Some groups of people live in largley homogenous environments but they are still no safer or better off for it, mexico and africa come to mind.

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## Guest

> A lot of those things are environmental things mistaken as race traits.


Their are things that are actually ancestral traits mistaken as race traits.  Race is not a scientific concept from the perspective of DNA.  Intelligence, what you look like, your athletic ability, this is the result of your parents, grandparents, etc and while there are certainly "trends" those trends may have the appearance of "race", but that is not associated with a "race"

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## The XL

I have a black friend who has a slightly higher IQ than me, was better in school than me, yet I'm 100 times the athlete.  

Boom goes two stereotypes.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> What is "race"?  Genetically, what is the difference in DNA?


There isn't one. It's an entirely made up construct used to justify separating people by skin color.

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## Maximatic

Seriously? How could these things not be genetic?

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## Gemini

> A lot of those things are environmental things mistaken as race traits.


Things like intellect?  I would wager that it is a hybrid blend of both nature and nurture.  Nobody really wants to tie the correlations together though when it comes to race/genetics.

Some lights are just brighter than others.  Not cruelty of man, but nature itself.

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## The XL

> Seriously? How could these things not be genetic?


It's genetic to an extent, but not racial.  If we selectively breed the most athletic white people at a really high rate, there would be a ton of phenomenal white athletes.  That goes for any trait, and any race.

Ever wonder why Africans don't really do shit in sports or the Olympics, yet African Americas do great?

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## The XL

> Things like intellect?  I would wager that it is a hybrid blend of both nature and nurture.  Nobody really wants to tie the correlations together though when it comes to race/genetics.
> 
> Some lights are just brighter than others.  Not cruelty of man, but nature itself.


If you put white babies in the same situations most minorities grow up in, they'd do the same things.  

What you see today with the African American community is a government experiment.  Between the drug war, poverty, and keeping them dependent on government, they're stuck in what you see today.

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## Maximatic

> It's genetic to an extent, but not racial.  If we selectively breed the most athletic white people at a really high rate, there would be a ton of phenomenal white athletes.  That goes for any trait, and any race.
> 
> Ever wonder why Africans don't really do shit in sports or the Olympics, yet African Americas do great?


I don't really understand this.

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## Guest

> It's genetic to an extent, but not racial.  If we selectively breed the most athletic white people at a really high rate, there would be a ton of phenomenal white athletes.  That goes for any trait, and any race.
> 
> Ever wonder why Africans don't really do shit in sports or the Olympics, yet African Americas do great?


^^This.  Like I said, it gives off the appearance of race, but it is really about family/ancestry.

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The XL (03-13-2013)

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## The XL

> I don't really understand this.


I'm white, and very athletic.  I have a 30+ vertical jump, which is above the NBA average.  Mate me with some white Olympian, and our babies will be great athletes.   Mate Georges St. Pierre and Ronda Rousey, and they have freak athletes for kids.  

Selectively mate great genes at a high rate, and that particular race will be overflowing with that trait.  

Africans aren't great athletes on average.  African Americans are.  Why do you think that is?

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## Gemini

> It's genetic to an extent, but not racial.  If we selectively breed the most athletic white people at a really high rate, there would be a ton of phenomenal white athletes.  That goes for any trait, and any race.
> 
> Ever wonder why Africans don't really do shit in sports or the Olympics, yet African Americas do great?


While I agree for the most part, I also think that the perpetual war, mass starvation, and political strife might have something to do with Africa's woes as well.

Now as to why they continually have these problems with no end in sight?  Well, I think that they are just not good at maintaining civilization because they don't seem to be predisposed towards being civilized.  They seem to be naturally aggressive, short sighted, and impulsive - not hallmark traits of legendary civilizations.  These are my perceptions of them having dealt with american blacks in particular.  Sure they are smarter because of advantages they had here in the US, but some thing just don't change that much.  Some things are just in the blood - a lot like your chances of getting hereditary diseases.

I do think learning all these things is possible, but some will have natural aptitudes for them, and others will naturally struggle with their mastery.

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## The XL

My brother has a freind from Africa who is 6'6, 200 lbs. Dude can't run, can't even touch rim on a basketball court, can't bench press more than about 100 lbs once, yet is really smart.  

Race realists, how in fuck did all of that happen?  Shouldn't he be able to dunk like Vince Carter but have an 80 IQ?

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## Gemini

> ^^This.  Like I said, it gives off the appearance of race, but it is really about family/ancestry.


Many families can have similar traits given geographic isolation over a period of time.  I think this is the best definition of "race".  Most simply think it is the color of skin because it is a tangible quality that is easily percieved.  When in reality, it is much deeper than that.

Scottish people, and French people are profoundly different, but are considered the same race, largely because of the color of their skin.  But I would think they are different, but not greatly different.  Yellow labrador, versus black labrador essentially - both still labradors.

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## Gemini

> My brother has a freind from Africa who is 6'6, 200 lbs. Dude can't run, can't even touch rim on a basketball court, can't bench press more than about 100 lbs once, yet is really smart.  
> 
> Race realists, how in fuck did all of that happen?  Shouldn't he be able to dunk like Vince Carter but have an 80 IQ?


Flukes happen man, I've enountered some deviantly intelligent mexicans and blacks myself.  But these are largely the exception and not the norm.  Societies hardly represent on a mass scale the qualities exhibited in their exceptions.

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## The XL

A lot of reasons why you see certain things is because people give up on their dreams because their family tells them, "you're black, you can't go to college and make it", or "you're Asian, you can't play basketball", and they just give up.

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## The XL

> Flukes happen man, I've enountered some deviantly intelligent mexicans and blacks myself.  But these are largely the exception and not the norm.  Societies hardly represent on a mass scale the qualities exhibited in their exceptions.


You see a ton of dumb as fuck white kids with families with money, who pretty much solely make it because of their parents.  


Smart and stupid people everywhere, and every race.

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## Gemini

> A lot of reasons why you see certain things is because people give up on their dreams because their family tells them, "you're black, you can't go to college and make it", or "you're Asian, you can't play basketball", and they just give up.


That is why I think the nurture aspect is also important, not just the nature.  However nurturing has limits based on the nature.  Doesn't matter how masterful an artisan you are, if you have shitty clay, your pot will not be as great as it would be with good clay.  But it would still be a good pot considering what it was made out of.

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## Maximatic

> I'm white, and very athletic.  I have a 30+ vertical jump, which is above the NBA average.  Mate me with some white Olympian, and our babies will be great athletes.   Mate Georges St. Pierre and Ronda Rousey, and they have freak athletes for kids.  
> 
> Selectively mate great genes at a high rate, and that particular race will be overflowing with that trait.


That is what happens in nature.

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## Gemini

> You see a ton of dumb as fuck white kids with families with money, who pretty much solely make it because of their parents.  
> 
> 
> Smart and stupid people everywhere, and every race.


Agreed.  Some coast off of their forebears and succeed only because of them.  And really, I would think that there are more dumb white kids in america vs. black kids because there are also just more white kids.  But when we look at the ratios of intellect of the varying races, I think you'll find that the standardized test results aren't too kind to the minorities.

It is what it is.  Wish I could change it, but I doubt it will change any time soon.  But then again, the education system currently in place is not designed to succeed either.  Standardized curriculums aren't helping anybody because not everybody learns the same way.

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## The XL

I think government has played a massively negative role in minority growth.  Between slavery, segregation, and now the drug war, a racist justice system, a racist law enforcement system, a devalued dollar, and dependency, I'd say they haven't really haven't had a level playing field in this country, no?  

I think that would be a fair assessment, wouldn't you agree?

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## The XL

> That is what happens in nature.


It isn't racially based though.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> While I agree for the most part, I also think that the perpetual war, mass starvation, and political strife might have something to do with Africa's woes as well.
> 
> Now as to why they continually have these problems with no end in sight?  Well, I think that they are just not good at maintaining civilization because they don't seem to be predisposed towards being civilized.  They seem to be naturally aggressive, short sighted, and impulsive - not hallmark traits of legendary civilizations.  These are my perceptions of them having dealt with american blacks in particular.  Sure they are smarter because of advantages they had here in the US, but some thing just don't change that much.  Some things are just in the blood - a lot like your chances of getting hereditary diseases.
> 
> I do think learning all these things is possible, but some will have natural aptitudes for them, and others will naturally struggle with their mastery.


As a philosopher and a scholar, I would tell you that civilization and the concept of being "civilized" is also a made-up construct that exists so one group can feel superior to another. For example, we in the West would call Muslims uncivilized for their tribal living and brutal culture, but uphold ourselves as civilized, even though we don't bat an eyelash at the idea of dropping bombs on 200 innocent Pakistani children just to kill one terrorist. That's not very civilized at all.

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## Guest

Black culture was going somewhere and doing just fine during the WWII generation and the 1950s when adversity and a desire to achieve societal acceptance motivated them.  You want to know why blacks "seem" a certain way, look to white politicians and their great society.

White kids in poor urban environments act just like what we perceive (stereotypical) blacks to act.  Look at Eminem.  Dude is "blacker" than Obama but he's white.

It's a construct, an abstract.

XL's right.  You mate him with a super athlete and his kids will be super athletic.  My parents were both top of their class and so were my brother and I...not that XL is not smart...wow, that came out wrong.   :Frown:

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## The XL

> Black culture was going somewhere and doing just fine during the WWII generation and the 1950s when adversity and a desire to achieve societal acceptance motivated them.  You want to know why blacks "seem" a certain way, look to white politicians and their great society.
> 
> White kids in poor urban environments act just like what we perceive (stereotypical) blacks to act.  Look at Eminem.  Dude is "blacker" than Obama but he's white.
> 
> It's a construct, an abstract.
> 
> XL's right.  You mate him with a super athlete and his kids will be super athletic.  My parents were both top of their class and so were my brother and I...not that XL is not smart...wow, that came out wrong.


LOL.  I took an IQ test when I was 17 and I think I got an 130, I might be wrong, it was 7 years ago.  

I'm above average, but you're obviously smarter than me, I have no shame in admitting it.

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## The XL

But like Rinnie said, Eminem is 7 billion times blacker than Obama.  And Obama is smarter.  It's all environmental.

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## Maximatic

What is the average IQ of black people in the US?
What is the average IQ of Black people in Africa?
What is the Average IQ of white people in the US? Of Asians in the US...

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## Maximatic

> LOL.  I took an IQ test when I was 17 and I think I got an 130, I might be wrong, it was 7 years ago.  
> 
> I'm above average, but you're obviously smarter than me, I have no shame in admitting it.


130 is good.

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## Maximatic

> But like Rinnie said, Eminem is 7 billion times blacker than Obama.  And Obama is smarter.  It's all environmental.


Exceptions to a mean don't really show anything.

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## The XL

> Exceptions to a mean don't really show anything.


Put a bunch of white kids and the hood and they won't be exceptions.

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## Guest

> But like Rinnie said, Eminem is 7 billion times blacker than Obama.  And Obama is smarter.  It's all environmental.


Well, his rap is sick.  Em's very witty, and Obamas debate made him look like he was pretty mediocre.  Let's use someone other than Obama and Em.

Lindsay Lohan or Condoleeza Rice...who would you trust as your partner in a survival situation where "smarts" not knowledge is tested?

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## Maximatic

> It isn't racially based though.


So, what do you want to call it?

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## Guest

> What is the average IQ of black people in the US?
> What is the average IQ of Black people in Africa?
> What is the Average IQ of white people in the US? Of Asians in the US...


Polish people had the top IQ score in Europe.  Russian and Poland have higher IQ scores than western Europe, yet...we are are all "white".

Are we super white?

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The XL (03-13-2013)

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## The XL

> What is the average IQ of black people in the US?
> What is the average IQ of Black people in Africa?
> What is the Average IQ of white people in the US? Of Asians in the US...


I googled it and got......

White Americans- 110
Asian Americans- 110
Black Americans- 85

I'm not going to cite Africans because their IQ is wildly different depending on the area, which actually gives credibility to my environmental argument.  

You don't think generations of slavery, institutional racism, segregation, selective breeding, lack of education, and poverty can drop you a good 20-25 points or so?  I think it could.  

Interestingly enough, Asian Americans have a lower IQ than other Asian people.  Could be environmental, no?

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## The XL

> Well, his rap is sick.  Em's very witty, and Obamas debate made him look like he was pretty mediocre.  Let's use someone other than Obama and Em.
> 
> Lindsay Lohan or Condoleeza Rice...who would you trust as your partner in a survival situation where "smarts" not knowledge is tested?


Fair point, haha

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## Maximatic

> Polish people had the top IQ score in Europe.  Russian and Poland have higher IQ scores than western Europe, yet...we are are all "white".
> 
> Are we super white?


You have higher average IQs as a group, right?

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## Maximatic

> I googled it and got......
> 
> White Americans- 110
> Asian Americans- 110
> Black Americans- 85
> 
> I'm not going to cite Africans because their IQ is wildly different depending on the area, which actually gives credibility to my environmental argument.  
> 
> You don't think generations of slavery, institutional racism, segregation, selective breeding, lack of education, and poverty can drop you a good 20-25 points or so?  I think it could.  
> ...


I'm pretty sure it's 100 for white Americans, and 65 for sub Saharan Africa.

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## Guest

Also, I've taken many IQ tests in my times and had varied scores based on the emphasis each test put on various intelligence "skills".  You cannot deny culture, or rigged tests.   :Wink: 

Seriously though, Asian culture and Russian culture is one that promotes no nonsense approaches to school and discipline.  You still have concepts of intra family shaming/shunning.  Had I gotten a "B" or God in all the Heavens forbid a "C"...my ass would have been on the street with the Detroit Tire man begging for change.

Intelligence, real intelligence which is the ability to quickly think (not a knowledge base) can be found in wit and comedy.  It can be found in survival situations.  It can be found in on the fly analysis.  Not knowledge, not the ability to take learned formulas and do them.

All of that is learned.

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## Maximatic

Of course part of it is environmental. I just don't understand why people want to believe that none of it is genetic.

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## The XL

> I'm pretty sure it's 100 for white Americans, and 65 for sub Saharan Africa.


I dunno, that's what I got from google.

I thought 100 IQ was the average for the country, all races included.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Of course part of it is environmental. I just don't understand why people want to believe that none of it is genetic.


Because there is evidence otherwise.

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## The XL

> Of course part of it is environmental. I just don't understand why people want to believe that none of it is genetic.


Genetic doesn't mean racial.  Just saying.

Look no further than Africa.  Most white American athletes are better than African athletes.

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## Guest

> I googled it and got......
> 
> White Americans- 110
> Asian Americans- 110
> Black Americans- 85
> 
> I'm not going to cite Africans because their IQ is wildly different depending on the area, which actually gives credibility to my environmental argument.  
> 
> You don't think generations of slavery, institutional racism, segregation, selective breeding, lack of education, and poverty can drop you a good 20-25 points or so?  I think it could.  
> ...


Chinese is a character language, their IQ tests are fundamentally different in the "Far East" Asian nations.  Look to the south east nations and they are closer to the US.

But again, for anyone who has ever taken them, or taken more than one of them you probably understand how the tests work and there is a knowledge base that you must have.

You want to see intelligence go to an off the fly rap battle or watch Dual Survival.  Thinking on your feet is intelligence.

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## Maximatic

> Because there is evidence otherwise.


There is evidence that none of it is genetic?

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## The XL

> Because there is evidence otherwise.


Genetics play a big part.  As much as I bust my ass and work hard, I'll never be in the same class of athlete as LeBron James.  

It isn't a racial thing though.  That's where they're wrong.

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## Gemini

> I think government has played a massively negative role in minority growth.  Between slavery, segregation, and now the drug war, a racist justice system, a racist law enforcement system, a devalued dollar, and dependency, I'd say they haven't really haven't had a level playing field in this country, no?  
> 
> I think that would be a fair assessment, wouldn't you agree?


Well first I would throw out the slavery nonsense, it is a dead issue in my eyes, none of my grandparents whipped any of them.  They need to just get over it.

Moving on.  Yes, the government has not helped them in the slightest.  By propping them up with special minority based entitlement programs, they have yet to learn to fend for themselves.  Destroying the dollar although very unhelpful, is nothing compared to the importance of ruining their perception fo what work is and why we need it.

You're right, the playing field was never level, but it never will be either.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> There is evidence that none of it is genetic?


Yes. It is all environment, unless you actually have a disability like Alzheimers or something.

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## Guest

By the way, not to sound like Miss Braggy pants, but I have a super high IQ scores.  One of them was 10 whole points higher than the others.  Was I just supa smart on that day?  No.  That's absurd that you can wake up one morning and be flashingly brilliant.

Now, I'm pretty confident in my intelligence.  I think I'm smarter than the average bear.  Not to shun the rest of you, but (myself included) if I had to pick the smartest cat on this website it would be @Network.

Why?  Because the type of wit he shows, the associations he makes, the quickness is indicative of someone with high intelligence quotient.  I've seen wit like that out of Eminem, but in interviews (sorry, Em) he sounds like a typical Detroit dumbass.

As you can tell, I'm not one for tests.

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## The XL

> *Well first I would throw out the slavery nonsense, it is a dead issue in my eyes, none of my grandparents whipped any of them.  They need to just get over it.*
> 
> Moving on.  Yes, the government has not helped them in the slightest.  By propping them up with special minority based entitlement programs, they have yet to learn to fend for themselves.  Destroying the dollar although very unhelpful, is nothing compared to the importance of ruining their perception fo what work is and why we need it.
> 
> You're right, the playing field was never level, but it never will be either.


I never said me, you or any other white man currently alive had anything to do with slavery, but to dismiss it is silly.  That all set the stage for all the other stuff they've gone through and currently go through.

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## The XL

> By the way, not to sound like Miss Braggy pants, but I have a super high IQ scores.  One of them was 10 whole points higher than the others.  Was I just supa smart on that day?  No.  That's absurd that you can wake up one morning and be flashingly brilliant.
> 
> Now, I'm pretty confident in my intelligence.  I think I'm smarter than the average bear.  Not to shun the rest of you, but (myself included) if I had to pick the smartest cat on this website it would be @Network.
> 
> Why?  Because the type of wit he shows, the associations he makes, the quickness is indicative of someone with high intelligence quotient.  I've seen wit like that out of Eminem, but in interviews (sorry, Em) he sounds like a typical Detroit dumbass.
> 
> As you can tell, I'm not one for tests.


It's true, IQ is an arbitrary test, but it's the most commonly used benchmark.  I agree it isn't a totally accurate measure of intelligence though.

What's your IQ Rinnie?  I'd love to know, haha.

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## Gemini

> As a philosopher and a scholar, I would tell you that civilization and the concept of being "civilized" is also a made-up construct that exists so one group can feel superior to another. For example, we in the West would call Muslims uncivilized for their tribal living and brutal culture, but uphold ourselves as civilized, even though we don't bat an eyelash at the idea of dropping bombs on 200 innocent Pakistani children just to kill one terrorist. That's not very civilized at all.


Um...those same types of people have no qualms about suicide bombers whereas we do.  I think you picked a bad comparison.  And I don't believe for a moment that we westerners don't bat an eyelash at killing 200 inncents, the bulk of us are just removed from the decision making process, or those making decisions are utterly ruthless - they are not representative of the whole.

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## Maximatic

What about all the other features and traits of a person? Are any of them genetic?

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## Guest

> I never said me, you or any other white man currently alive had anything to do with slavery, but to dismiss it is silly.  That all set the stage for all the other stuff they've gone through and currently go through.


Blacks were made stronger by slavery as you can see from the rise of black industry, black bohemian culture, black universities, etc. post-slavery.   It was entitlements that made them culturally weaker, telling them that they couldn't do something on their own is a form of mind control.

The most eloquent black speakers we've had in the US were those who lived through Jim Crow.  Adversity does make you strong.

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Canadianeye (03-13-2013)

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## Gemini

> I never said me, you or any other white man currently alive had anything to do with slavery, but to dismiss it is silly.  That all set the stage for all the other stuff they've gone through and currently go through.


For the first 2 generations I could see that being legitimate.  But this is 2013, and they are still playing the race card, now more than ever.  I decline it every time they use it, and strangely enough, the argument improves or stops - on their end.

I could gripe, piss, and moan about my parents financial situation and use that as an excuse to be a total screw up.  But I don't, because I don't want to, and I doubt anybody would be sympathetic to my cause as well.  Really, who wants to help a poor disadvantaged white kid?

Nobody.  Cruel truths can be found when young.  Life ain't fair, you do the best you can with the hand you were dealt.  Or not, and wither away.

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## Gemini

> What about all the other features and traits of a person? Are any of them genetic?


I would tend to think so.  Otherwise the entire medical profession wouldn't give a damn about family history or the race of the patient.

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## Maximatic

> Blacks were made stronger by slavery as you can see from the rise of black industry, black bohemian culture, black universities, etc. post-slavery.   It was entitlements that made them culturally weaker, telling them that they couldn't do something on their own is a form of mind control.
> 
> The most eloquent black speakers we've had in the US were those who lived through Jim Crow.  Adversity does make you strong.


You don't think they might have been selected over other available slaves for their size and strength?

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## Maximatic

> I would tend to think so.  Otherwise the entire medical profession wouldn't give a damn about family history or the race of the patient.


None of us would be here.

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## The XL

> For the first 2 generations I could see that being legitimate.  But this is 2013, and they are still playing the race card, now more than ever.  I decline it every time they use it, and strangely enough, the argument improves or stops - on their end.
> 
> I could gripe, piss, and moan about my parents financial situation and use that as an excuse to be a total screw up.  But I don't, because I don't want to, and I doubt anybody would be sympathetic to my cause as well.  Really, who wants to help a poor disadvantaged white kid?
> 
> Nobody.  Cruel truths can be found when young.  Life ain't fair, you do the best you can with the hand you were dealt.  Or not, and wither away.


It's not playing the race card.  Slavery is directly linked to segregation, which has been evolved into to the war on drugs, government racism, and dependency. 

I'm not blaming white people, I'm blaming government.  And whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are all accountable for voting in statist fuckheads generation to generation.

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## Guest

> I would tend to think so.  Otherwise the entire medical profession wouldn't give a damn about family history or the race of the patient.


Family history is important.  I don't think anyone made the case that it was not.

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## Guest

> You don't think they might have been selected over other available slaves for their size and strength?


I think it was some form of social Darwinism that those who made it to the US alive were "stronger", but again...that is family history, not blacks in general.  Those who were strong survived, breeding stronger children.

BUT...there was a lot of rape on plantations and blacks in the US are not wholly one race, hence...it is  construct.  You look "black" because of your particular parents, but are you really?

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The XL (03-13-2013)

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## Maximatic

> I think it was some form of social Darwinism that those who made it to the US alive were "stronger", but again...that is family history, not blacks in general.  Those who were strong survived, breeding stronger children.
> 
> BUT...there was a lot of rape on plantations and blacks in the US are not wholly one race, hence...it is  construct.  You look "black" because of your particular parents, but are you really?


Me? I don't get it. I was talking about the slaves having been selected, by those who purchased them, for their size and strength. You keep talking about traits being passed from parent to  child. It looks like you're making a case for race realism.

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## Guest

> Me? I don't get it. I was talking about the slaves having been selected, by those who purchased them, for their size and strength. You keep talking about traits being passed from parent to  child. It looks like you're making a case for race realism.


Slavery was a class of people in Africa, then and now as there is still legal slavery in some regions.  It had nothing to do with preselection by hand and perhaps a combo of natural selection and proximity.

It still doesn't imply race.  Because within those people whose skin happens to be brown there are vary degrees of what you guys are arguing is racial purity.  

People are people.  A thoroughbred horse is just a horse.  It is a breed of horse, but medically it gets treated like any other equine.  A brown skinned person is no different than a white skinned person at an elemental level.

To remove preselection from the equation, family traits, etc is just ridiculous.

So much of what we consider is true of a race is just culture.

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The XL (03-13-2013)

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## Maximatic

> Slavery was a class of people in Africa, then and now as there is still legal slavery in some regions.  It had nothing to do with preselection by hand and perhaps a combo of natural selection and proximity.
> 
> It still doesn't imply race.  Because within those people whose skin happens to be brown there are vary degrees of what you guys are arguing is racial purity.  
> 
> People are people.  A thoroughbred horse is just a horse.  It is a breed of horse, but medically it gets treated like any other equine.  A brown skinned person is no different than a white skinned person at an elemental level.
> 
> To remove preselection from the equation, family traits, etc is just ridiculous.
> 
> So much of what we consider is true of a race is just culture.


So, you go to Africa. You want to buy 200 slaves. The lady selling the slaves has 2,000 of them. Do you care which ones you get?

----------


## Guest

http://www.cracked.com/article_20348...re-racist.html
*#5. Being Told Not to Be Racist*...


They did an experiment on this at the University of Toronto  Scarborough, where they split subjects into three groups. One group was  given an "autonomy brochure," which just stressed the positive effects  of not being prejudiced, a second was given no brochure at all, and a  third was given a brochure that explicitly _ordered_ them not to be prejudiced.


 You can guess how that went if you've spent any time around, well,  the general public. When they tested each group on how prejudiced they  were, presumably by throwing a minority in front of them and yelling  "Quick, call him a name!" the researchers found that the group with the  "do what you want" pamphlet was less prejudiced than the group with no  pamphlet. *And yes, for the third group, being told to be politically  correct actually made them more prejudiced than being told nothing at all.*


Read more:  http://www.cracked.com/article_20348...#ixzz2NRf6GLu0

The fact that we are being told that we cannot talk about differences in races will make some say there are none, and others say there are many.

----------


## Guest

> So, you go to Africa. You want to buy 200 slaves. The lady selling the slave has 2,000 of them. Do you care which ones you get?


That's not how it was done.  It was how it was done in the US, like horses, but they were sold en masse in Africa and in the Middle East...by "lots".

----------


## The XL

You could selectively breed white people and have the same traits you have in black people now, which is what was done to a large degree with slavery.

----------


## Guest

> You could selectively breed white people and have the same traits you have in black people now, which is what was done to a large degree with slavery.


There is also natural preselection. There are features we gravitate to, traits we gravitate to, and then those we forced on people.  

Anyway, I have no idea what this has to do with now.  Slavery was many generations ago and if we wanted to sound all Mengele like we could talk about how to line breed bad traits out in that time.

----------


## Maximatic

> That's not how it was done.  It was how it was done in the US, like horses, but they were sold en masse in Africa and in the Middle East...by "lots".


I don't know enough about it to say any different. That was a rabbit trail, though. I don't understand why you said why you said I'm arguing for racial purity. All I'm saying is that intelligence has something to do with genetics.

----------


## Gemini

> It's not playing the race card.  Slavery is directly linked to segregation, which has been evolved into to the war on drugs, government racism, and dependency.


Typically, the race card gets played when one dares opposes the dependency problem.  They oppose the very thing that will help them the most.  The government is the most racist organization that I know of, the KKK doesn't have crap on them if you ask me.  The entitlement programs aren't fair to any, because the pull money from the pockets of those who they will not benefit, and they declare the beneficiaries incompetent by stating that they need help because they by themselves are too stupid to succeed on their own.

Offensive to all parties involved I'd say.

[/quote]
I'm not blaming white people, I'm blaming government.  And whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are all accountable for voting in statist fuckheads generation to generation.[/QUOTE]

Not saying you're blaming white people, and yes, you are terrificallly correct about simpletons en masse of all races voting for corrupt officials.  The government is nobody's friend currently.

----------


## Guest

> I don't know enough about it to say any different. That was a rabbit trail, though. I don't understand why you said why you said I'm arguing for racial purity. All I'm saying is that intelligence has something to do with genetics.


Intelligence does have a lot to do with genetics, but what I'm saying is that there is no such thing as race.

Think about how many millions of markers we have that make us who we are.

We use brown skin as a discernment but that person with brown skin could share 99.9999% of the markers (and does) with someone white.  Or forget genotypes and phenotypes, just discernible characteristics, for example.  

What specific characteristics do people say the black race has?  Can someone define that and show how it is different than the white race?

I have "white characteristics".  I also supposedly have some Jews in my ancestry, so who knows what else I have...maybe Rom, too.  But I look white.  I have black hair because my mother has black hair.  I have blue eyes because my father has blue eyes.  I'm smart because both of them were smart.  I'm tall because mom was tall and dad was tall.  What if they were both short?  What if one of them had brown eyes, would I have green?  I am a mix bag of traits that are exclusively that of my two families, not "race".

I am not a white person, I am the daughter of my two parents whose skin color is pale.

What aside from white skin makes me similar to Lindsay Lohan?

----------


## Gemini

> I think it was some form of social Darwinism that those who made it to the US alive were "stronger", but again...that is family history, not blacks in general.  Those who were strong survived, breeding stronger children.
> 
> BUT...there was a lot of rape on plantations and blacks in the US are not wholly one race, hence...it is  construct.  You look "black" because of your particular parents, but are you really?


An excellent point you bring up.  The irish slave trade was operating at the same time, many irish women were forcibly bred with black slaves as well, or used as whores for their masters.  I bet there is a lot of irish swimming around in some black people, although quite diluted at this point.

I wouldn't call race a construct but more akin to something like a breed, as dogs are sorted out by breeds - but can still mate with each other.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Um...those same types of people have no qualms about suicide bombers whereas we do.  I think you picked a bad comparison.  And I don't believe for a moment that we westerners don't bat an eyelash at killing 200 inncents, the bulk of us are just removed from the decision making process, or those making decisions are utterly ruthless - they are not representative of the whole.


And yet, we pay suicide bombers and give them weaponry. We may not be doing the suicide bombing, but how are we any better?

----------


## Guest

> An excellent point you bring up.  The irish slave trade was operating at the same time, many irish women were forcibly bred with black slaves as well, or used as whores for their masters.  I bet there is a lot of irish swimming around in some black people, although quite diluted at this point.
> 
> I wouldn't call race a construct but more akin to something like a breed, as dogs are sorted out by breeds - but can still mate with each other.


What about the RH factor?  I am RH negative.  If I mate with anyone white or black who is Rhesus positive the child will abort.  I cannot bear children with someone who is not RH negative without the use of vaccinations that fool my body temporarily.

I am more of a different species then if part of the definition of species is the ability to bear offspring, and yet I look like other white people.

----------


## Calypso Jones

you take a shot.   You'll be fine. Daughter in law did that.

----------


## Maximatic

> Intelligence does have a lot to do with genetics, but what I'm saying is that there is no such thing as race.
> 
> Think about how many millions of markers we have that make us who we are.
> 
> We use brown skin as a discernment but that person with brown skin could share 99.9999% of the markers (and does) with someone white.  Or forget genotypes and phenotypes, just discernible characteristics, for example.  
> 
> What specific characteristics do people say the black race has?  Can someone define that and show how it is different than the white race?
> 
> I have "white characteristics".  I also supposedly have some Jews in my ancestry, so who knows what else I have...maybe Rom, too.  But I look white.  I have black hair because my mother has black hair.  I have blue eyes because my father has blue eyes.  I'm smart because both of them were smart.  I'm tall because mom was tall and dad was tall.  What if they were both short?  What if one of them had brown eyes, would I have green?  I am a mix bag of traits that are exclusively that of my two families, not "race".
> ...


Okay, I see what you're saying. It just doesn't seem very useful to say that there is no such thing as race. What do you want me to call that kind of people who's skin color is darker than that of everyone else and all have nappy hair?

----------


## Guest

> Okay, I see what you're saying. It just doesn't seem very useful to say that there is no such thing as race. What do you want me to call that kind of people who's skin color is darker than that of everyone else and all have nappy hair?


What's their name?

I met this really, really dark skinned black dude with a white grandfather.  Gabrielle Reese looks like this:



Her grandfather is "black".

Like I see the point in saying "that person is 'white'" or "that person is 'black'" as an identifier but when you start talking race it gets fuzzy.

----------


## Maximatic

> What's their name?
> 
> I met this really, really dark skinned black dude with a white grandfather.  Gabrielle Reese looks like this:
> 
> 
> Her grandfather is "black".
> 
> Like I see the point in saying "that person is 'white'" or "that person is 'black'" as an identifier but when you start talking race it gets fuzzy.


It seems, to me, that it gets fuzzy when we take way parts of our language. But this is more than just that. These are real concepts. There really are groups of people who have this feature, or that one, in common. That there are exceptions doesn't do anything to negate that.

----------


## Guest

> It seems, to me, that it gets fuzzy when we take way parts of our language. But this is more than just that. These are real concepts. There really are groups of people who have this feature, or that one, in common. That there are exceptions doesn't do anything to negate that.


What features are we speaking of?  Skin color?



Those are just SOME of the foundation colors they have for "white" people.

Is she "white" or "black"?  She has "features" of both.





How "brown" do you have to be to be "black" and how "pale" do you have to be to be "white"?

----------


## Maximatic

I know there are gradations and exceptions. Look, I'm white, Irish. My sons mother is black, very dark. My skin is darker than my son's skin. You're telling me that I should throw out the whole concept of race, one that I find obvious, because there are variations within them and exceptions to them. Why?

----------


## Gemini

> And yet, we pay suicide bombers and give them weaponry. We may not be doing the suicide bombing, but how are we any better?


Really?  You're operation that we're all the same,  for whatever reason the political spectrum has this one thing in common with toilets - shit usually floats to the top.

Our leaders direct where this goes for personal/political gain.  A man's allegiance is governed largely by who fills his stomach or makes him feel good about himself.  Politicians are largely governed by which special interest group will get them elected, not the ones they are supposed to represent.  Most of our leaders are pond scum, they do not represent the will of the people that they supposedly declare they serve.

----------


## The XL

> I know there are gradations and exceptions. Look, I'm white, Irish. My sons mother is black, very dark. My skin is darker than my son's skin. You're telling me that I should throw out the whole concept of race, one that I find obvious, because there are variations within them and exceptions to them. Why?


Physical appearances are different than intelligence or athletic ability. 

There are white people who look different than one another, too.

----------


## Trinnity

> For example, we in the West would call Muslims uncivilized for their tribal living and brutal culture, but uphold ourselves as civilized, even though we don't bat an eyelash at the idea of dropping bombs on 200 innocent Pakistani children just to kill one terrorist. That's not very civilized at all.


Who are you callin' "we"? None of us had any say in that. And btw, Obama is well known to love drone attacks on people and he's Black. He wants nothing to do with his White heritage.

----------


## Guest

> I know there are gradations and exceptions. Look, I'm white, Irish. My sons mother is black, very dark. My skin is darker than my son's skin. You're telling me that I should throw out the whole concept of race, one that I find obvious, because there are variations within them and exceptions to them. Why?


Because it is unscientific.

I brought up the RH factor and no one responded.  I am Rhesus negative.  I cannot mate with a Rhesus positive person and have a live child unless I know ahead of time and take shots.

Without modern medical science  any offspring I had would die.  I am different than other white people, than 85% of all "white" people.  There is more sense in putting me in a different group and clumping Rhesus positive white and blacks together than there is to put me with white people from a scientific perspective.

Skin color, hair type, and features are not positive traits or negative traits.  They are just some aspects of a human.

Horses and donkey are equines.  You can have a grey Thoroughbred horse, a brown and white paint draft horse, and a grey donkey:







The thoroughbred and the donkey are both equines, both the same color, both weigh less than 1500 lbs, both have similar facial structure.  The last is a spotted Clydesdale with a Roman nose, brown coloring and weighs a ton.

The thoroughbred and donkey can breed, and when it "takes" that offspring (a mule) will be grey.



But the offspring/mule will be unable to breed.

A draft-thoroughbred cross will be able to breed and of multi-color.

Now, all are equines.  All have similar features, just different sizes.  Two have the same color.  They're just different species because they cannot cross breed effectively.

So, I ask...what is "race" but a color of an animal, and why is it important or relative to other traits?

----------


## The XL

> Who are you callin' "we"? None of us had any say in that. And btw, Obama is well known to love drone attacks on people and he's Black. He wants nothing to do with his White heritage.


An overwhelming majority of this country have voted in statists who champion this ridiculous foreign policy.  So yes, if you voted for one of those guys, you did have a say in it.  

The fact that Obama is President, Romney got nominated over Ron Paul, and Gary Johnson got a mere 1% of the vote pretty much confirms that people of all races overwhelmingly aren't that bright and are easily manipulated.

----------



----------


## Gemini

> What about the RH factor?  I am RH negative.  If I mate with anyone white or black who is Rhesus positive the child will abort.  I cannot bear children with someone who is not RH negative without the use of vaccinations that fool my body temporarily.
> 
> I am more of a different species then if part of the definition of species is the ability to bear offspring, and yet I look like other white people.


In such an instance you could always get the shot they offer for it.  However you bring up a valid point, personally I think it warrant a taxonomic category.

You could very well be considered different class of human, not inferior, but certainly different.  Because obviously you are different, yet still share the bulk of traits enjoyed by al humanity.

----------


## Guest

> In such an instance you could always get the shot they offer for it.  However you bring up a valid point, personally I think it warrant a taxonomic category.
> 
> You could very well be considered different class of human, not inferior, but certainly different.  Because obviously you are different, yet still share the bulk of traits enjoyed by al humanity.


Yes.  And while we are on the subject, those in this "class" also have higher IQ scores, are more resistant to blood-borne diseases, are more light sensitive, etc.  We are just predominantly pale in skin color (though there are some blacks and asians with it) so while I look "white" I carry traits different than other whites.

Race to me is a construct (see horse example) and an abstraction.  Because people of various skin colors were "segregated" certain cultural traits arose.  Those traits are not native to the color, IMO.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Who are you callin' "we"? None of us had any say in that. And btw, Obama is well known to love drone attacks on people and he's Black. He wants nothing to do with his White heritage.


Part of being an American means getting a black eye when our government fucks up. Our job is to show people that we won't put up with it.

----------

Trinnity (03-13-2013)

----------


## Gemini

> An overwhelming majority of this country have voted in statists who champion this ridiculous foreign policy.  So yes, if you voted for one of those guys, you did have a say in it.  
> 
> The fact that Obama is President, Romney got nominated over Ron Paul, and Gary Johnson got a mere 1% of the vote pretty much confirms that people of all races overwhelmingly aren't that bright and are easily manipulated.


Wrong.  Only about half of the nation voted in 2012 election for president.  And that half that voted is fairly divided.  So when we look at it, it isn't a fair representation of the whole picture.




> 2012*
> 239,405,657
> 197,828,022
> 126,000,000
> 57.5 % *Estimate


Source.

That being said, you are right, people of all races can be misled.

----------


## The XL

> Wrong.  Only about half of the nation voted in 2012 election for president.  And that half that voted is fairly divided.  So when we look at it, it isn't a fair representation of the whole picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Source.
> 
> That being said, you are right, people of all races can be misled.


And those people were silly to not vote.  The majority who did gave us fuckheads like Romney and Obama and 99% of the population that voted ignored Gary Johnson

Fail is all around me.  Black, white, and every shade in between.

----------



----------


## Gemini

> Part of being an American means getting a black eye when our government fucks up. Our job is to show people that we won't put up with it.


This is at odds with individualism, but reeks of collectivistic mindset.  I am not responsible for my governments actions because I, the individual did nothing wrong.  Now if I am car bombing people in pakistan, than yes, I would be fully accountable, but my next door neighbor wouldn't be.

----------


## Maximatic

> 


Why did you post this picture? You posted it because we all know damn good and well that it's a black girl with pale skin. "Because it's not scientific" is not a good enough reason for me to eliminate from my mind a concept of which I'm acutely aware. You're a white girl who is RH negative. I understood what you wrote. I even looked it up to scratch the surface on what it means. What I read isn't consistent with what you said, but you know more about yourself than I do, so let's just go with this:




> Without modern medical science  any offspring I had would die.  I am  different than other white people, than 85% of all "white" people.   There is more sense in putting me in a different group and clumping  Rhesus positive white and blacks together than there is to put me with  white people from a scientific perspective.


Fine, put all RH positive people and negative people in two separate groups. Now you have overlapping groups. So what? We do that all the time with all kids of concepts. But now you're saying that, because of the existence of one category, I have to pretend like the other one doesn't exist. That doesn't make any sense.

This:




> Skin color, hair type, and features are not positive traits or negative traits.  They are just some aspects of a human.


is irrelevant. Why are you/ Nevermind

----------


## The XL

It's all genetic.  Selectively breed stupid whites at a high rate, and you'll end up with a population of stupid white people.  Take smart blacks, breed them at a high rate, and you'll have a population of smart blacks.  Vice Versa, and it applies for whatever positive or negative trait you're looking for.  And of course, environment has a lot to do with it as well.

If you don't believe me, explain to me why American blacks are overwhelmingly better athletes than African blacks.

----------


## Gemini

> And those people were silly to not vote.  The majority who did gave us fuckheads like Romney and Obama and 99% of the population that voted ignored Gary Johnson
> 
> Fail is all around me.  Black, white, and every shade in between.


I have grown fond of the voter turn out that switzerland has, and also the method used to enforce it.  They used to fine people for not voting, but it is still compulsory.

Personally, if you aren't going to vote you shouldn't gripe.  I did vote.  And frankly I was pissed out the outcome.  Surprised?  No, not really.  It is natural for the stupid and undisciplined to be more prolific in numbers.  So obviously Mr. Gary Johnson never saw the light of day.

I saw the choice between Mittens and Numbnuts Obama akin to a choice between satan and beelzebub.    Both represent wings of the same bird, but the bird is a vulture.

Indeed, we are surrounded by idiots.

----------


## Guest

Okay how's this: http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/ogandy/...n%20genome.pdf

According to the Human Genome Project there is no such thing as "race".

----------


## Guest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rho%28D%29_immune_globulin

*Rho(D) Immune Globulin* is a medicine given by intramuscular injection that is used to prevent the immunological condition known as Rhesus disease (or hemolytic disease of newborn). The medicine is a solution of IgG anti-D (anti-RhD) antibodies  that suppresses the mother's immune system from attacking Rh-positive  blood cells which have entered the maternal blood stream from fetal  circulation.[1] In a Rhesus negative mother *Rho(D) Immune Globulin* can prevent temporary sensitization of the maternal immune system to Rh D antigens,  which can cause rhesus disease in the current or in subsequent  pregnancies. With the widespread use of Rho(D) Immune Globulin, Rh disease of the fetus and newborn  has almost disappeared. Rho(D) Immune Globulin is composed of IgG  antibodies and therefore is able to cross the placenta. In rare cases  this can cause a baby to have a weakly positive DAT (direct antiglobulin test)  due to sensitization of fetal cells from mothers who have received  multiple doses of Rho(D) Immune Globulin. However, no treatment is  necessary as the clinical course is benign.[2]

http://www.pregnancy.org/article/rh-incompatibility-and-why-you-need-rhogam


People are called Rh-negative if they do not have the rhesus (Rh)  protein on the surfaces of their blood cells. If Rh-positive blood cells  get into the bloodstream of someone who is Rh-negative, the body of  that Rh-negative person will see this as an enemy invasion.
 Unprepared, the Rh-negative person will begin to make antibodies  (what you call anticorps) against the foreign Rh protein. This first  exposure is often not even noticed. The next time an exposure occurs,  though, the body is primed to seek and destroy all Rh-positive blood  cells. All-out war can occur inside an Rh-negative person's body.


 A terrible condition called hydrops fetalis can be the result of that  war. Rh incompatibility produces a wide variety of outcomes. Sometimes  only mild anemia and perhaps a little jaundice are the only signs there  has been a conflict.


 But sometimes the results are catastrophic. The first pregnancy is  rarely a problem because blood is often not exchanged until the time of  birth. But with each subsequent pregnancy, the risk for hydrops  increases.


 Hydropic babies are bloated, swollen, and pale. Enlarged hearts,  livers and spleens are unable to perform their vital duties. The swollen  lungs can make breathing impossible. Many die shortly after birth. Many  hydropic babies are stillborn.

----------


## Maximatic

> Okay how's this: http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/ogandy/...n%20genome.pdf
> 
> According to the Human Genome Project there is no such thing as "race".


Is there any such thing skin, hair or eye color according to the project? Head size, follicle shape, height, bone density, limb length... according to the project? 


Show me the genes.

----------


## Maximatic

> It's all genetic.  Selectively breed stupid whites at a high rate, and you'll end up with a population of stupid white people.  Take smart blacks, breed them at a high rate, and you'll have a population of smart blacks.  Vice Versa, and it applies for whatever positive or negative trait you're looking for.  And of course, environment has a lot to do with it as well.
> 
> If you don't believe me, explain to me why American blacks are overwhelmingly better athletes than African blacks.


Because they don't have basketball courts?

----------


## Guest

> Is there any such thing skin, hair or eye color according to the project? Head size, follicle shape, height, bone density, limb length... according to the project? 
> 
> 
> Show me the genes.


What are "black features" and must you have some or all of them to be black?

----------


## Maximatic

> What are "black features" and must you have some or all of them to be black?


Some.

----------


## Guest

> Some.


I'm not trying to be difficult, but what are black features and what are "some"?  What number of black features pegs you for being "black"?

----------


## Fearandloathing

> Intelligence, self control, predisposition for certain activities...  Many things are on the table.  My take on culture is that it is largely based upon the race of the people.  However in order for it to develop naturally it requires isolation at first and develops slowly over time to match the genetics predispostions of the people in question.  
> 
> That being said, culture can change when another culture arises, or it can clash and create conflict.
> 
> Do I think races should be separate from one another?  Well, I have seen and experienced first hand both homogenous groups, and diverse groups.  The homogenous groups tend to have fewer problems regarding interactions with each other with exceptions.  Not politically correct of me, but I give a flying f*** about PC parameters of dialogue.
> 
> Some groups of people live in largley homogenous environments but they are still no safer or better off for it, mexico and africa come to mind.


Some recent studies in Canada kind of prove that.

For instance they found that among Chinese, whether born in China or several generations in North America have a predisposition toward technology and the sciences...

Having said that, however,  the variances are minimal in percentage terms....and does not indicate that a given individual will be good at what is defined as a predisposition.

----------


## Trinnity

The continent of Africa is a mess from top to bottom. Uncivilized, violent, backward and underdeveloped. WHY is that?  :Thinking:

----------


## Guest

> The continent of Africa is a mess from top to bottom. Uncivilized, violent, backward and underdeveloped. WHY is that?


Why is North Korea?  Brutal dictators.

----------


## Trinnity

> Wrong.  Only about half of the nation voted in 2012 election for president.  And that half that voted is fairly divided.  So when we look at it, it isn't a fair representation of the whole picture.
> 
> 
> 
> Source.
> 
> That being said, you are right, people of all races can be misled.


Obama is a master con-artist, and the dem party in general lies, cheats, panders, buys votes, plays the blame game, plays the race card, and on and on. It's a party of systemic corruption. The Rs are not so clean either, but the D party is downright dirty.

----------


## Maximatic

> I'm not trying to be difficult, but what are black features and what are "some"?  What number of black features pegs you for being "black"?


In order to be black, you need at least one black parent. Then you can be black, if you want. But if someone else thinks you're white, you're probably not gonna convince them otherwise.

You're trying to get me to qualify an abstraction. I'm not gonna sit here and describe a black person with words. Some people can be hard to categorize according to race. But, until we all interbreed, the abstract category, race, will exist.

----------


## The XL

> Because they don't have basketball courts?


I said athletes, not just basketball players.

----------


## Trinnity

> Why is North Korea?  Brutal dictators.


Africa has been plagued by brutal dictators. South America too, to a slightly lesser extent. NK is a puppet of China, whose history is full of brutality. But no place on Earth is so backward as Africa or as myopic and brutal as the fundie-Muslim Middle East. Those cultures are a detriment to us all in one way of another.

It isn't my fault it's that way and I won't sugar-coat it for the sake of PC.

----------


## Maximatic

> I said athletes, not just basketball players.


Why do you think it is?

----------


## Guest

> In order to be black, you need at least one black parent. Then you can be black, if you want. But if someone else thinks you're white, you're probably not gonna convince them otherwise.
> 
> You're trying to get me to qualify an abstraction. I'm not gonna sit here and describe a black person with words. Some people can be hard to categorize according to race. But, until we all interbreed, the abstract category, race, will exist.


It isn't a real category, though, where you can say that these traits apply to _______________ or those traits apply to _____________.  

Hitler and his scientists felt that "slavs" were not only our own race, but that we were the master race.  I ask, what is race?  What makes me different than someone from England or America?  Am I a new race because I have large, weird eyes?  Maybe its the round face?  Is it my height or intellect?

None of this makes any sense to me at all.  There are physical features and then there is culture.  Within those of similar features there are way too many variances to say we should have "race realism".

Condoleeza Rice, for example, is super dark and super smart.

Stacey Dash is super light and, well, not super smart.

I dunno, I'm not sure what you guys mean or are talking about when it comes to race.

----------


## Network

"Race" is somewhat concurrent with what some are trying to call solely "environmental" factors.  Since most of the "races" have centuries of history in the same environment, I'd say that it's not completely absurd to correlate the two.

But defining "race" really serves no purpose because in every imaginable category we can think up, some will break the mold.  I'll leave categorization to the collectivists who hate individuality.

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Guest

> Africa has been plagued by brutal dictators. South America too, to a slightly lesser extent. NK is a puppet of China, whose history is full of brutality. But no place on Earth is so backward as Africa or as myopic and brutal as the fundie-Muslim Middle East. Those cultures are a detriment to us all in one way of another.
> 
> It isn't my fault it's that way and I won't sugar-coat it for the sake of PC.


The Middle East has Aryans, though.  The Caucus mountains were where Caucasians allegedly come from. 

This has absolutely nothing to do with being PC.  I hate political correctness.  Words to me are fucking words and if you have a problem with a word someone is calling you it is because a tiny part of you believes it is true.

I am talking science.

----------


## Gemini

> The continent of Africa is a mess from top to bottom. Uncivilized, violent, backward and underdeveloped. WHY is that?


Well...let's examine this nugget you've brought forth.

Africa is abundant in resources - livestock, human capital, coal, various precious metals, oil, diamonds...  So we can't blame the lack of resources.  But...but...it's a desert!  This issue is largely irrelevant, as people usually live near water sources - like ever other living organism on the planet, also, technology does negate this problem a lot.  Political strife?  Well, who is involved in their politics?  Not too many white people, barring the decaying South Africa who by the way has a black president last I checked.  International meddling?  Okay, I'll buy that to a degree, but we have AIPAC running the US congress largely and we still manage to not devolve into primodial savages.  And even when integrated we don't kill each other at insanely alarming rates like they do in africa.

Similar racial composition of china regarding homogenous demographics, but china doesn't have the problems, and most of their people live in the coast where there is water.  But china also doesn't have the marauding warlords africa does.

So it's not the environment, the water, that yucky mandated diversity junk, or lack of resources.  Could it  be the inhabitants of the continent?  I am leaning in that direction  myself.

Not really a head scratching machiavellian mystery here.  But you knew the answer all along didn't you Trinnity? :Cool20: 

Keep your distance from the "darkies" when practical and prudent, make profiles that work.  Works out well for me.

----------


## Guest

China doesn't have brutality?  Are you fucking kidding me?  What do you think happened to girl babies in China?  How about people who wanted to be Christian?  How about people who just didn't like central planning?

Christ Jesus, give me a fucking break.

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Maximatic

> It isn't a real category, though, where you can say that these traits apply to _______________ or those traits apply to _____________.  
> 
> Hitler and his scientists felt that "slavs" were not only our own race, but that we were the master race.  I ask, what is race?  What makes me different than someone from England or America?  Am I a new race because I have large, weird eyes?  Maybe its the round face?  Is it my height or intellect?
> 
> None of this makes any sense to me at all.  There are physical features and then there is culture.  Within those of similar features there are way too many variances to say we should have "race realism".
> 
> Condoleeza Rice, for example, is super dark and super smart.
> 
> Stacey Dash is super light and, well, not super smart.
> ...


You know it's a real category. When you want to tell me something about your black friend, you refer to her as your black friend, and you expect me to know what you mean, and I do.

I really don't think that trying to defend the assertion that race does not exist is the best way to go about whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.

----------


## Trinnity

> I am talking science.


Fair enough~

----------


## Network

But if my girlfriend of the week leaves me for an Asian man, I'm joining the Aryan brotherhood.  

How long will it take for the brothas to become hunchback computer nerds on average?  Environmental factors, their identification with race, and how they are treated because of their race will surely play a role.

----------



----------


## Gemini

> Why is North Korea?  Brutal dictators.


Excellent point, but you'll also notice that their southern counterparts manage to do just fine with managing a republic or sorts.  Even when introduced in africa it has a hard time taking root - South Africa being a good example.  Nelson Mendela singing "kill the boer" comes to mind.  Africa operates under either monarchy- the iron fisted tyrant or strongest of the pack, or true democracy a lynch mob.  This seems to be the peak of how they operate.  

And it is extremely sad, but no matter how sad it is,_ I don't want it here._  I think it has a basis in biology, their behavior and predispostions, so that is why I feel it wise to segregate.

----------


## Guest

> You know it's a real category. When you want to tell me something about your black friend, you refer to her as your black friend, and you expect me to know what you mean, and I do.
> 
> I really don't think that trying to defend the assertion that race does not exist is the best way to go about whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.


I did not say that we don't use specific words to mean what someone physically looks like, but when we use "black" as a descriptor for action, intellect, pursuits, attitude, etc it goes against both science and the philosophy of individualism and rolls right down the path of stereotyping and collectivism.

That's not what I'm about.

----------

Network (03-13-2013)

----------


## Maximatic

> I did not say that we don't use specific words to mean what someone physically looks like, but when we use "black" as a descriptor for action, intellect, pursuits, attitude, etc it goes against both science and the philosophy of individualism and rolls right down the path of stereotyping and collectivism.
> 
> That's not what I'm about.


Okay.

----------


## Gemini

> Obama is a master con-artist, and the dem party in general lies, cheats, panders, buys votes, plays the blame game, plays the race card, and on and on. It's a party of systemic corruption. The Rs are not so clean either, but the D party is downright dirty.


Con artist, puppet, ass clown, evil, whatever you want to call him it doesn't really matter, his policy cripples continually.  And actually I despise republicans only slightly more than democrats.

You see I can handle people who wear evil on their sleave, I know them by sight and can treat them accordingly because they self identify.  But the republicans I generally have do research on to figure out if they actually mean what they say or will do otherwise.  They are akin to a poisonous snake slithering through the grass.  The Patriot Act?  Nothing patriotic about it!  Passed on a republican watch.

Both wings of the same bird.  I generally dismiss and despise the evil promoted by democrats, but I truly *hate* the subterfuge that republicans pull in the name of patriotism.  But as I mentioned before, the amount of irritation between the two is only a slight amount.

----------

Network (03-13-2013),The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Network

> Con artist, puppet, ass clown, evil, whatever you want to call him it doesn't really matter, his policy cripples continually.  And actually I despise republicans only slightly more than democrats.
> 
> You see I can handle people who wear evil on their sleave, I know them by sight and can treat them accordingly because they self identify.  But the republicans I generally have do research on to figure out if they actually mean what they say or will do otherwise.  They are akin to a poisonous snake slithering through the grass.  The Patriot Act?  Nothing patriotic about it!  Passed on a republican watch.
> 
> Both wings of the same bird.  I generally dismiss and despise the evil promoted by democrats, but I truly *hate* the subterfuge that republicans pull in the name of patriotism.  But as I mentioned before, the amount of irritation between the two is only a slight amount.



I'm going to like you.

You must be Yellow.

----------


## The XL

> Why do you think it is?


Environment and American selective breeding during slavery.

----------


## Maximatic

> Environment and American selective breeding during slavery.


Sounds right.

----------


## The XL

> "Race" is somewhat concurrent with what some are trying to call solely "environmental" factors.  Since most of the "races" have centuries of history in the same environment, I'd say that it's not completely absurd to correlate the two.
> 
> But defining "race" really serves no purpose because in every imaginable category we can think up, some will break the mold.*  I'll leave categorization to the collectivists who hate individuality*.


This.  I will never claim another white dudes accomplishment, and I don't want the white race to claim mine.

Collectivism is all bullshit.

----------


## Gemini

> "Race" is somewhat concurrent with what some are trying to call solely "environmental" factors.  Since most of the "races" have centuries of history in the same environment, I'd say that it's not completely absurd to correlate the two.
> 
> But defining "race" really serves no purpose because in every imaginable category we can think up, some will break the mold.  I'll leave categorization to the collectivists who hate individuality.


While I despise collectivism like the average free thinking person should, using taxonomic terminology where beneficial shouldn't be ignored.  Police brace themselves much differently when chasing down a suspect if he is a white male vs. a black male.  To ignore its potential uses is kind of silly.

But granted, there are some who will break the mold.  I'm just saying that classification is normal.  Humans do it innately.

----------


## Network

> Environment and American selective breeding during slavery.



The smarter blacks are decedents of the bastard children of the plantation owners and house slaves.

man I can derail a thread.

Back on track, "smart" is also a subjective and dodgy term.  People are smart in different ways.  Some are good at writing, some at math, some are completely right brained.  

As for me, I was always just an unmotivated right-brained wanker, who forced myself through left-brained rigors because it's the only way to make money with minimal effort.

----------

Gemini (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> While I despise collectivism like the average free thinking person should, using taxonomic terminology where beneficial shouldn't be ignored.  Police brace themselves much differently when chasing down a suspect if he is a white male vs. a black male.  To ignore its potential uses is kind of silly.
> 
> But granted, there are some who will break the mold.  I'm just saying that classification is normal.  Humans do it innately.


Collectivism or better said socialism, is the only way to get real freedom  :Smile:

----------


## The XL

> Collectivism or better said socialism, is the only way to get real freedom


What?  So the 51% majority imposing its will on the 49% minority is real freedom?

I don't think so.

----------


## Guest

> Excellent point, but you'll also notice that their southern counterparts manage to do just fine with managing a republic or sorts.


So does Tanzania because it has no real exploitable resource that people want and a culture that is relatively peaceful.




> Even when introduced in africa it has a hard time taking root - South Africa being a good example.  Nelson Mendela singing "kill the boer" comes to mind.  Africa operates under either monarchy- the iron fisted tyrant or strongest of the pack, or true democracy a lynch mob.  This seems to be the peak of how they operate.


Again, cultural.  




> And it is extremely sad, but no matter how sad it is,_ I don't want it here._  I think it has a basis in biology, their behavior and predispostions, so that is why I feel it wise to segregate.


You could make this same case about men in general.  You're violent, aggressive, commit most of the murders, all of the genocides, rapes, molestations, etc.

Should we say men are the horrible gender that the world would be better off without?

----------


## Gemini

> China doesn't have brutality?  Are you fucking kidding me?  What do you think happened to girl babies in China?  How about people who wanted to be Christian?  How about people who just didn't like central planning?
> 
> Christ Jesus, give me a fucking break.


Whoa whoa there...cool your circuits for a moment.  I think that if you look at the ratios you'll find that africa takes the cake on all of it.

Not saying that korea or china is ideal to the human condition, but I would say that it is better.  Surely they have problems, but in ratios compared to africa?  Night and day difference I think.  I think china's current state is a growing pain of their civilization, and they will pass through it eventually - at the cost of bloodshed.

----------


## Maximatic

> stereotyping and collectivism.
> 
> That's not what I'm about.





> I'll leave categorization to the collectivists who hate individuality.





> This.  I will never claim another white dudes accomplishment, and I don't want the white race to claim mine.
> 
> Collectivism is all bullshit.


What about the category, human, does that exist?

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> This is at odds with individualism, but reeks of collectivistic mindset.  I am not responsible for my governments actions because I, the individual did nothing wrong.  Now if I am car bombing people in pakistan, than yes, I would be fully accountable, but my next door neighbor wouldn't be.


What are you actively doing to stop it?

----------


## Network

> What about the category, human, does that exist?


Only on earth.  

RH negatives do need an extra sapien category.

----------


## Maximatic

I'll just go ahead and point out where you've all gone wrong. It doesn't follow, from the fact that one believes that race is a real category, that that person is racist or a collectivist.

Honestly, are you gonna call me a collectivist?

----------


## Gemini

> I'm going to like you.


Not to worry, this can be cured if you get to know me well enough.  I can be quite a ruthless prick if called upon or provoked.




> You must be Yellow.


I admit, I am confused.  Yellow?  You think I'm oriental?

----------


## Maximatic

> I admit, I am confused.  Yellow?  You think I'm oriental?


Now that's funny.

----------


## The XL

> I'll just go ahead and point out where you've all gone wrong. It doesn't follow, from the fact that one believes that race is a real category, that that person is racist or a collectivist.
> 
> Honestly, are you gonna call me a collectivist?


Race isn't a real category between humans.  We can mate, communicate, and yes, even co-exist in the same society, among many other things.

A different race would be a dog.

----------


## kilgram

> What?  So the 51% majority imposing its will on the 49% minority is real freedom?
> 
> I don't think so.


That is better than what we have today where the 1% imposes its will to the others 99%.

----------


## Guest

> Whoa whoa there...cool your circuits for a moment.  I think that if you look at the ratios you'll find that africa takes the cake on all of it.


Have you ever heard of Stalin or Mao?  You're going to actually make that argument?  

This Polish-Russian transplant laughs at this argument.




> Not saying that korea or china is ideal to the human condition, but I would say that it is better.  Surely they have problems, but in ratios compared to africa?  Night and day difference I think.  I think china's current state is a growing pain of their civilization, and they will pass through it eventually - at the cost of bloodshed.


Do you want pictures of what the Chinese and Koreans have done to their citizens?

----------


## Maximatic

> Race isn't a real category between humans.  We can mate, communicate, and yes, even co-exist in the same society, among many other things.
> 
> A different race would be a dog.


So it's the word you don't like?

----------


## kilgram

> Only on earth.  
> 
> RH negatives do need an extra sapien category.


What the fuck? That is sarcasm or a pure racist idea?

It remembers me to the founder of the PNV, basque nationalism, Sabino Arana who said that the Basque people had RH-

----------

Network (03-13-2013)

----------


## The XL

> That is better than what we have today where the 1% imposes its will to the others 99%.


So the answer to a government caused problem is more government?  What is this I don't even.

The top part of the 1% owns government.  That's why things are the way they are.  And frankly, the 99% are too stupid to realize that.

----------


## Guest

> That is better than what we have today where the 1% imposes its will to the others 99%.


They don't impose shit.  They dazzle us with products and we nod willingly.

----------


## Network

> What the fuck? That is sarcasm or a pure racist idea?



It's purely racist.  Because we're defining "race" as "blood type" from now on.

----------



----------


## The XL

> So it's the word you don't like?


The word is not being used correctly whatsoever.

----------


## Gemini

> Collectivism or better said socialism, is the only way to get real freedom


From whose ass did you pull this shit to smoke?  _Freedom_ from _collectivism_?!

You yanking my chain?

----------


## kilgram

> So the answer to a government caused problem is more government?  What is this I don't even.
> 
> The top part of the 1% owns government.  That's why things are the way they are.  And frankly, the 99% are too stupid to realize that.


The answer to a government caused problem is abolishing government.  :Smile:  You know what I think.

And that was a bit trolling answer to the new  :Smile:

----------


## The XL

> They don't impose shit.  They dazzle us with products and we nod willingly.


And they prop up politicians which the majority vote for.

----------


## The XL

> The answer to a government caused problem is abolishing government.  You know what I think.


How can you abolish government in your ideal society?  Who will forcibly confiscate the wealth from people?

----------

Network (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> From whose ass did you pull this shit to smoke?  _Freedom_ from _collectivism_?!
> 
> You yanking my chain?


From the ideas of the classic anarchists  :Laugh:

----------


## Guest

> From whose ass did you pull this shit to smoke?  _Freedom_ from _collectivism_?!
> 
> You yanking my chain?


What is all this race realism but the inability to see individuals and apply labels to large expanses of people whether they deserve it or not?

FORWARD!

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> From whose ass did you pull this shit to smoke?  _Freedom_ from _collectivism_?!
> 
> You yanking my chain?


I think it's conceivable that you may not know all the answers in life, yes.

----------


## Gemini

> You could make this same case about men in general.  You're violent, aggressive, commit most of the murders, all of the genocides, rapes, molestations, etc.  Should we say men are the horrible gender that the world would be better off without?


We do put the troublesome ones in prison, and kill them occasionally.  If there was a way to find the troublesome ones and root them out shortly after they struck or educate them to do otherwise I would. 

But until then I have profiles that I continually refine based off of perceptions and experience.  Seems to work for me.

----------


## Guest

This is not about political correctness from my POV.  It is about science and what evidence there is for any of this.  Correlation versus causation.  Hard core evidence-based theories.

If it were about political correctness I wouldn't call The XL a faggot ******, but...he is.  So is Network, but he's a chinkie chong ****** faggot and I'm just a kikey-cunt Russkie mackeral snapping carpet muncher.

----------

Network (03-13-2013),The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> How can you abolish government in your ideal society?  Who will forcibly confiscate the wealth from people?


With  :Riot:   :Boobs:  ,  :Angel5:  and(  :Police:  +  :Glasses7:  ) ->  :Blowup: 

 :Piratetongue:

----------


## Maximatic

> This is not about political correctness from my POV.  It is about science and what evidence there is for any of this.  Correlation versus causation.  Hard core evidence-based theories.
> 
> If it were about political correctness I wouldn't call The XL a faggot ******, but...he is.  So is Network, but he's a chinkie chong ****** faggot and I'm just a kikey-cunt Russkie mackeral snapping carpet muncher.


Uhu Well, it wasn't the most difficult debate I ever had, but you do okay.

----------


## The XL

> I think it's conceivable that you may not know all the answers in life, yes.


Forcible collectivism, which is what Kilgram advocates, is not freedom.

----------

Gemini (03-13-2013)

----------


## Network

> This is not about political correctness from my POV.  It is about science and what evidence there is for any of this.  Correlation versus causation.  Hard core evidence-based theories.
> 
> If it were about political correctness I wouldn't call The XL a faggot ******, but...he is.  So is Network, but he's a chinkie chong ****** faggot and I'm just a kikey-cunt Russkie mackeral snapping carpet muncher.



You never should've giving me the term "mackerel-snapping"  (even though you spelled it wrong).

Yellow people like Gemini can't drive at all.

----------



----------


## Gemini

> What are you actively doing to stop it?


I'm doing it right now - speaking with others.  And voting accordingly, and spending accordingly too.

Also, raising children who have my values.  Teaching them what tools they will need in order to learn and reason, how to arrive at the truth.  And teaching them the moral fiber that will enable them to best act when that truth is made manifest to them.

...what are you doing about it?

----------


## Maximatic

> With   ,  and(  +  ) -> 
> 
> iratetong


What? Is that your head finally exploding?

----------


## The XL

> With   ,  and(  +  ) ->


Lmfao, that's one hell of an answer.  I have a hard time arguing that one.

Touche, Kilgram.

----------

kilgram (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> Forcible collectivism, which is what Kilgram advocates, is not freedom.


I am not for forcible collectivism  :Smile:  

Now. I believe that the authoritarians must be taken down. But that is what in USA you did and many of you defend.

----------


## Karl

> man I can derail a thread.


Since when?

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:  :Smiley ROFLMAO:  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Gemini

> Race isn't a real category between humans.  We can mate, communicate, and yes, even co-exist in the same society, among many other things.  A different race would be a dog.


Which is why I would propose the term "breed".  It's more accurate.

----------



----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Forcible collectivism, which is what Kilgram advocates, is not freedom.


I don't disagree. My point still stands  :Tongue:

----------


## Guest

> Uhu Well, it wasn't the most difficult debate I ever had, but you do okay.


What debate?  What evidence has been presented?  When I ask people to describe or define what features make up "black" and what scientific evidence proves this assertion there has been naught but crickets chirping.

When people make the correlation between violence in Africa and race--in spite of the fact that whites, blacks, Indians, Jews, Arabs, etc all live there-- but do not make the same correlation in regards to Asian people when millions of dead Asians tell other tales entirely what am I to think about this "debate"?

There is no debate.  There are a lot of emotions flying, but debate?  No.

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Maximatic

> I am not for forcible collectivism  
> 
> Now. I believe that the authoritarians must be taken down. But that is what in USA you did and many of you defend.


Who? Where? Not in this thread. Only you and TRAT.


Edit: Oh yeah and Trinnity.

----------


## kilgram

> What? Is that your head finally exploding?


No, it was pretending that government was exploding.

----------


## Network

The government explodes from the coalition of fake-boobed satanic sluts with the help of police collaborating with shady government officials.  

Finally, we have pirates.

----------

Gemini (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> Who? Where? Not in this thread. Only you and TRAT.
> 
> 
> Edit: Oh yeah and Trinnity.


I've not seen any American portraying the American Revolution as something really wrong and that was violent and is unforgivable.

I see that many of that revolutionaries are portrayes as heroes, and everyone agrees with that  :Smile:

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> I'm doing it right now - speaking with others.  And voting accordingly, and spending accordingly too.
> 
> Also, raising children who have my values.  Teaching them what tools they will need in order to learn and reason, how to arrive at the truth.  And teaching them the moral fiber that will enable them to best act when that truth is made manifest to them.
> 
> ...what are you doing about it?


I established and maintain a constantly growing worldwide network of unique, trustworthy friends who help me raise awareness and pressure politicians to do the right thing.

----------


## kilgram

> The government explodes from the coalition of fake-boobed satanic sluts with the help of police collaborating with shady government officials.  
> 
> Finally, we have pirates.


No, there is a riot with satanic sluts and the police and government are taken down, or exploded.

And as result, we have a world of pirates  :Smile:

----------

Network (03-13-2013)

----------


## Network

> No, there is a riot with satanic sluts and the police and government are taken down, or exploded.
> 
> And as result, we have a world of pirates


It was an impressive smiley display.

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Gemini

> Have you ever heard of Stalin or Mao?  You're going to actually make that argument?  
> 
> This Polish-Russian transplant laughs at this argument.


I didn't say they were immune to the eventual rise of a potential dictatorship.  What I am saying is that I simply don't think they are going to get to that level of dictatorship.  They simply seem to be unable to get past commanding a certain threshold of people to intimidate or lord over because of intellectual ceilings bestowed upon them by cruelties of nature.  While you may have a super genius black guy, he is only as great as the pieces he has to work with.

Really, the fact that Mao and Stalin rose to such power is actually a credit to intellect - while still evil in its purest form.  I've yet to see such a feat of leadership and barbarism take place in the stead of a black man - usually usurped to early on.  This is why africa is in shambles in my opinion.  Doesn't look likely to change anytime soon.

The difference being, that these periods of barbarism come and go, in Africa, it seems like a constant you just have to deal with.




> Do you want pictures of what the Chinese and Koreans have done to their citizens?


I'm sure they are no more shocking that what South Africa currently endures.

----------


## Maximatic

> What debate?  What evidence has been presented?  When I ask people to describe or define what features make up "black" and what scientific evidence proves this assertion there has been naught but crickets chirping.
> 
> When people make the correlation between violence in Africa and race--in spite of the fact that whites, blacks, Indians, Jews, Arabs, etc all live there-- but do not make the same correlation in regards to Asian people when millions of dead Asians tell other tales entirely what am I to think about this "debate"?
> 
> There is no debate.  There are a lot of emotions flying, but debate?  No.


I don't argue like that. I was talking about the exchange between you and me.  If you read through it again, you'll see that you all but conceded and shifted to insinuating that I must be a collectivist since I whipped you so badly.

----------


## Guest

Are we saying that Pol Pot was "black"?

That Stalin was "black"?

That Hitler was "black"?

That Mao was "black"?

Or do we classify organized genocide in a different, "better" category than randomized mass murder?

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Guest

> I don't argue like that. I was talking about the exchange between you and me.  If you read through it again, you'll see that you all but conceded and shifted to insinuating that I must be a collectivist since I whipped you so badly.


I would like to understand how you did this and in what thread it happened?

----------

The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## The XL

> I don't argue like that. I was talking about the exchange between you and me.  If you read through it again, you'll see that you all but conceded and shifted to insinuating that I must be a collectivist since I whipped you so badly.


Where was the point you "whipped" anyone?  You've had no counterargument to any of the examples showing that traits like intelligence or athleticism aren't race based.

----------


## kilgram

Yeah, I know how to improve that:

(  :Riot:  +  :Boobs:  )  :Slap:  (  :Police:  +  :Glasses7:  ) ->  :Blowup:  ->

 :Piratetongue:  +  :Boozing:

----------

Network (03-13-2013),The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## Gemini

> What is all this race realism but the inability to see individuals and apply labels to large expanses of people whether they deserve it or not?
> 
> FORWARD!


I see you missed the preface, or I didn't state it.  Basically I use profiles when uncertainty is in the area.  When nothing is at stake, and the environment is secure I very much enjoy giving everybody a blank slate of which they may either prove themselves a total shit sack OR a decent human being regardless of whatever profile they might have fit into.  I love it when people break the mold in a good way.

I call these people I get to know "friends" if their company is desireable, and "undesirable" if otherwise.

----------


## Network

> I don't argue like that. I was talking about the exchange between you and me.  If you read through it again, you'll see that you all but conceded and shifted to insinuating that I must be a collectivist since I whipped you so badly.



But the idea is that there is really no reason to discuss "race" if you truly believe in individualism.  People can think whatever they want, but it shouldn't enter the public stage.  Everyone should be treated equally before the law and everyone else.  

Since the merits of the individual is at an individual level, I can't find a legitimate reason to make it a topic of discussion, a discussion that is always destined to be in a collectivist mindset.

----------



----------


## Gemini

> Yellow people like Gemini can't drive at all.


I guess I'm not going to figure it out after all.  Oh well.  Surely I must die in disappointment now... :Geez:

----------


## Maximatic

> I would like to understand how you did this and in what thread it happened?


You would also like me to describe the features of a black person, but that isn't necessary. All you need to do is read the exchange.

----------


## Guest

> I didn't say they were immune to the eventual rise of a potential dictatorship.  What I am saying is that I simply don't think they are going to get to that level of dictatorship.  They simply seem to be unable to get past commanding a certain threshold of people to intimidate or lord over because of intellectual ceilings bestowed upon them by cruelties of nature.  While you may have a super genius black guy, he is only as great as the pieces he has to work with.


Oh, so it's better to be a _stupid_ dictator than an intelligent one, and you'd rather not have "that" kind of stupid ruling the US, you'd rather have a highly intelligent evil mastermind dictator.  Gotcha.




> Really, the fact that Mao and Stalin rose to such power is actually a credit to intellect - while still evil in its purest form.  I've yet to see such a feat of leadership and barbarism take place in the stead of a black man - usually usurped to early on.  This is why africa is in shambles in my opinion.  Doesn't look likely to change anytime soon.


Sure, a credit.  I'm sure my great aunt thought his intellect was a credit when her husband got dragged off into the night.  Is is possible, do you think, to be more flippant about mass death and cruelty?




> The difference being, that these periods of barbarism come and go, in Africa, it seems like a constant you just have to deal with.


It probably does _seem_ like it.  It probably also doesn't _seem_ like North Korea or China is all that bad, either.  They just had girl babies lying in cots starving to death as a form of population control.




> I'm sure they are no more shocking that what South Africa currently endures.


What is the common denominator in all these various places?

----------


## Guest

> You would also like me to describe the features of a black person, but that isn't necessary. All you need to do is read the exchange.


It is necessary, absolutely necessary, to scientifically--not superficially make an association.

----------


## Gemini

> I am not for forcible collectivism  
> 
> Now. I believe that the authoritarians must be taken down. But that is what in USA you did and many of you defend.


Which authoritarians need to be taken down?  Just the ones you disagree with?

Because people seek out leadership, or followers naturally, people are tribal in nature and typically have leaders among them.  From these spring more.  There is always an alpha, or someone people defer to for counsel.

----------


## Maximatic

> No, it was pretending that government was exploding.


Yeah, I was just hoping that you had finally realized that what you believe is internally incoherent.

----------


## Maximatic

> It is necessary, absolutely necessary, to scientifically--not superficially make an association.


Okay.

----------


## kilgram

> Yeah, I was just hoping that you had finally realized that what you believe is internally incoherent.


What is internally incoherent is believe that keeping alive totalitarian structures you will liberate the people  :Smile: 

But the union of the people to take down that that keep the chains of them, is not incoherent.

PS: I am having fun with this  :Smile:

----------


## Guest

> Which authoritarians need to be taken down?  Just the ones you disagree with?


Probably the darkies.  Those guys when you give them power do crazy whacked out things with it, amirite?   :Wink:

----------


## Maximatic

> I've not seen any American portraying the American Revolution as something really wrong and that was violent and is unforgivable.
> 
> I see that many of that revolutionaries are portrayes as heroes, and everyone agrees with that


The revolution was fine, just not the governments that came after it, or before it.

----------


## kilgram

> Which authoritarians need to be taken down?  Just the ones you disagree with?
> 
> Because people seek out leadership, or followers naturally, people are tribal in nature and typically have leaders among them.  From these spring more.  There is always an alpha, or someone people defer to for counsel.


All the authoritarian structures: religion, capitalism and state  :Smile:

----------


## kilgram

> The revolution was fine, just not the governments that came after it, or before it.


Yeah, that is the danger of the revolution. 

But with this you agree more with me than you think.

----------


## Maximatic

> What is internally incoherent is believe that keeping alive totalitarian structures you will liberate the people 
> 
> But the union of the people to take down that that keep the chains of them, is not incoherent.
> 
> PS: I am having fun with this


What you imagine as totalitarian structures are not totalitarian structures. A totalitarian structure must monopolize the use of force.

----------


## Gemini

> Probably the darkies.  Those guys when you give them power do crazy whacked out things with it, amirite?


 :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

Oh you kill me sometimes.  No, I would think you judge a man by the contents of his character - we've seen the president's character and the results of his actions.  But we've also seen countless morons go before him.  I would say he is simply more zealous than the rest, not tip toeing around to do his nefarious deeds.

Like I said earlier, political office is like a toilet - shit usually floats to the top.  This is fairly asymptomatic of race in my opinion.  Every president is a dumbass in somebody's eyes.

----------

Trinnity (03-14-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> What you imagine as totalitarian structures are not totalitarian structures. A totalitarian structure must monopolize the use of force.


An hierarchal structure where a few have all the power is totalitarian. And guess what beloved thing has this structure.

----------


## Gemini

> Oh, so it's better to be a _stupid_ dictator than an intelligent one, and you'd rather not have "that" kind of stupid ruling the US, you'd rather have a highly intelligent evil mastermind dictator.  Gotcha.


Well, truthfully I would rather not have either of them.  But I can atleast respect an evil genius off of talent alone - regardless of race.




> Sure, a credit.  I'm sure my great aunt thought his intellect was a credit when her husband got dragged off into the night.  Is is possible, do you think, to be more flippant about mass death and cruelty?


Not trying to stomp on your toes chief.  Nor negate the suffering of those who died at the hands of murderous creatures in power.  I am just saying that there is generaly a difference in the method, frequency, scope of victims, and technique is all.  One of them is due to genius, and the other isn't.




> It probably does _seem_ like it.  It probably also doesn't _seem_ like North Korea or China is all that bad, either.  They just had girl babies lying in cots starving to death as a form of population control.


I did say it wasn't the ideal for the human condition.  They will out grow this I suspect.




> What is the common denominator in all these various places?


Lowest common denominator of what exactly?  What are we digging up?

----------


## Gemini

> All the authoritarian structures: religion, capitalism and state


Looks like you have an eternity of job security if that is your goal.  Much like the war on terrorism.  It has been, currently is, and always will be.

Anarchy of this sort never pans out in the long haul.

----------


## Maximatic

> An hierarchal structure where a few have all the power is totalitarian. And guess what beloved thing has this structure.


No se.

----------


## Guest

> Lowest common denominator of what exactly?  What are we digging up?


My point is that we look for reasons for bad things, artificial constructs that can explain the inexplicable.  You could make the argument that all these dictators were men.  Men are violent and cruel, right?  Look at all the mass murder the commit.  You could also make the argument that it is government and power that is the deciding factor in mass cruelty.

But the truth is that individuals with very specific traits and qualities do bad things and they also do good things.

I will concede that culture is a significant factor in the behavior of man, but there is no real scientific evidence that there is a) even a thing we can call "race", and from that b) that this artificial construct also delineates particular characteristics or abilities.

When we came to this country the Fates royally fucked me and placed me, a whitey-white girl in the middle of an urban black ghetto.  I understand what is "urban black" culture, and I'm not overly fond of it aside from the humor and music.  Be that as it may, it is not "black" culture in its entirety.  As I moved to the south to go to undergrad I met rural blacks who were churchy type people whose lives revolved around their church and positivity and I realized that there is no panacea of "black culture" or even black people.

We believe that blacks are x,y,z because a bunch of mostly old, mostly Jewish, white men decided to make money off it by marketing this culture to suburban white teens.

----------

kilgram (03-13-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-13-2013),The XL (03-13-2013)

----------


## kilgram

> No se.


Really? Really that can you not guess it?

Then, the game continues  :Smile:  Today I am in good mood to play.

----------


## kilgram

> My point is that we look for reasons for bad things, artificial constructs that can explain the inexplicable.  You could make the argument that all these dictators were men.  Men are violent and cruel, right?  Look at all the mass murder the commit.  You could also make the argument that it is government and power that is the deciding factor in mass cruelty.
> 
> But the truth is that individuals with very specific traits and qualities do bad things and they also do good things.
> 
> I will concede that culture is a significant factor in the behavior of man, but there is no real scientific evidence that there is a) even a thing we can call "race", and from that b) that this artificial construct also delineates particular characteristics or abilities.
> 
> When we came to this country the Fates royally fucked me and placed me, a whitey-white girl in the middle of an urban black ghetto.  I understand what is "urban black" culture, and I'm not overly fond of it aside from the humor and music.  Be that as it may, it is not "black" culture in its entirety.  As I moved to the south to go to undergrad I met rural blacks who were churchy type people whose lives revolved around their church and positivity and I realized that there is no panacea of "black culture" or even black people.
> 
> We believe that blacks are x,y,z because a bunch of mostly old, mostly Jewish, white men decided to make money off it by marketing this culture to suburban white teens.


What a person makes to do evil deeds, normally are extreme situations in which that person is found, poverty, social unstructered situation,...

We have to remove from this equation the naturally evil people, psicopaths and similar.

----------


## The XL

> My point is that we look for reasons for bad things, artificial constructs that can explain the inexplicable.  You could make the argument that all these dictators were men.  Men are violent and cruel, right?  Look at all the mass murder the commit.  You could also make the argument that it is government and power that is the deciding factor in mass cruelty.
> 
> But the truth is that individuals with very specific traits and qualities do bad things and they also do good things.
> 
> I will concede that culture is a significant factor in the behavior of man, but there is no real scientific evidence that there is a) even a thing we can call "race", and from that b) that this artificial construct also delineates particular characteristics or abilities.
> 
> When we came to this country the Fates royally fucked me and placed me, a whitey-white girl in the middle of an urban black ghetto.  I understand what is "urban black" culture, and I'm not overly fond of it aside from the humor and music.  Be that as it may, it is not "black" culture in its entirety.  As I moved to the south to go to undergrad I met rural blacks who were churchy type people whose lives revolved around their church and positivity and I realized that there is no panacea of "black culture" or even black people.
> 
> We believe that blacks are x,y,z because a bunch of mostly old, mostly Jewish, white men decided to make money off it by marketing this culture to suburban white teens.


Well said.

----------


## Maximatic

> What a person makes to do evil deeds, normally are extreme situations in which that person is found, poverty, social unstructered situation,...
> 
> We have to remove from this equation the naturally evil people, psicopaths and similar.


Normally, what make a person do evil deeds are extreme situations wherein that person is found in poverty or socially unstructured situations.  ???I think


Make plural
Makes singular




We have to remove from this equation the naturally evil people, psicopaths and such.   is better

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kilgram (03-14-2013)

----------


## Maximatic

> What a person makes to do evil deeds, normally are extreme situations in which that person is found, poverty, social unstructered situation,...
> 
> We have to remove from this equation the naturally evil people, psicopaths and similar.


Perdona me, Kilgram, se me olbido correjir la ortographia de psychopaths.

----------


## patrickt

> What's a race realist?


My guess would be someone who agrees with Max.

----------


## Maximatic

> My guess would be someone who agrees with Max.


I really never thought of myself as a race realist. I didn't have any strong opinions on the matter. It just seems silly to say that there's no such thing as race, or that the different average intelligences of the races has nothing to do with genetics.

----------


## The XL

> I really never thought of myself as a race realist. I didn't have any strong opinions on the matter. It just seems silly to say that there's no such thing as race, or that the different average intelligences of the races has nothing to do with genetics.


Genetics isn't necessarily race related.  Blacks have been bred a certain way throughout history, which is why you see certain dominant traits.  Government racism has not helped any.

----------


## Maximatic

> Genetics isn't necessarily race related.  Blacks have been bred a certain way throughout history, which is why you see certain dominant traits.  Government racism has not helped any.


Okay. I only had two contentions in this whole thing.

1. There are races. (when we use that word, we are not saying something incoherent or meaningless)
2. Different average intelligences of the races has something to do with genetics.

I don't know if holding those two beliefs is enough to make one a race realist or not.

----------

Mister D (04-30-2013)

----------


## The XL

Put it this way.  

Breed Brock Lesnar




with Ronda Rousey


Or white athletes of the like and we'd have a bunch of super athletic white people.  


If, at the same time, you breed Erkel 



Or any terribly unathletic black dude with a regular black chick, we'd have a ton of black people that were poor athletes.






Have Jeremy Lin(Who is my favorite basketball player, btw)



Plant his seed in a bunch Asian chicks, the NBA would have a a bunch of Asian dudes bustin black and white ass.




You get what I'm trying to say?  Genetics is not race related, and selective breeding of any race, like what happened to black people, could produce any trait you want, really.

----------



----------


## Maximatic

> Put it this way.  
> 
> Breed Brock Lesnar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> with Ronda Rousey
> 
> ...


You know, I think you're right.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (03-14-2013),The XL (03-14-2013)

----------


## Henry Krinkle

Name the African, Peruvian, Meixcan, or Indian equivalents of-

Michelangelo, Leonardo DaVinic, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sir Issac Newton.

Name the European country, race or tribe that practices cannibalism.

----------


## Mister D

> Okay. I only had two contentions in this whole thing.
> 
> 1. There are races. (when we use that word, we are not saying something incoherent or meaningless)
> 2. Different average intelligences of the races has something to do with genetics.
> 
> I don't know if holding those two beliefs is enough to make one a race realist or not.


1. Correct. 

2. Controversial but I believe it to be the case. What people tend to forget is that group differences break down on an individual level. That is, group means or averages say virtually nothing about an individual. What they do help explain is the academic gap,  the IQ gap, and the wealth disparity between groups, for example, that progressives never stop trying to bridge.

----------


## Mister D

@Henry Krinkle that is the most chilling avatar I have ever seen.

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Henry Krinkle (04-30-2013)

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## Archer

> They believe that the differences between races are real and genetic including traits like intelligence.


Stupidity is not a one race issue :Smile:

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## Mister D

> Stupidity is not a one race issue


Neither is crime, poverty, and illegitimacy but we see gaps there as well.

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## Archer

> Neither is crime, poverty, and illegitimacy but we see gaps there as well.


Yes we do. These issues, in my view, are cultural.

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## Mister D

> Yes we do. These issues, in my view, are cultural.


They could certainly be entirely cultural although the relationship between culture and genes gets a little murky. On the other hand, since intelligence is a partly heritable trait it's doubtful, IMEO, that the IQ gap has no genetic basis whatsoever.

----------


## Henry Krinkle

> Yes we do. These issues, in my view, are cultural.


Culture is derived of race (tribe). Want black culture? Go to Detroit, Memphis, Compton. Want white culture? go back in time to when those places were predominantly white, then write a report on the crime statistics then and now.

----------


## Henry Krinkle

> They could certainly be entirely cultural although the relationship between culture and genes gets a little murky. On the other hand, since intelligence is a partly heritable trait it's doubtful, IMEO, that the IQ gap has no genetic basis whatsoever.


Intelligence is mostly hereditary. The only people who refuse to acknowledge the intelligence differences in the races that are clearly physically different, are people who want to blame the failures of one on the successes of the other.

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Mister D (04-30-2013)

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## Archer

> They could certainly be entirely cultural although the relationship between culture and genes gets a little murky. On the other hand, since intelligence is a partly heritable trait it's doubtful, IMEO, that the IQ gap has no genetic basis whatsoever.


Drop the average whit man with an average IQ for a white man (with no training) in the African jungle and take an African and drop him in the city. Who will survive?

----------


## Henry Krinkle

> Drop the average whit man with an average IQ for a white man (with no training) in the African jungle and take an African and drop him in the city. Who will survive?


The African- because he take his machete and behead the first person he sees, then eat their flesh and maybe see a movie after.

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## Archer

> The African- because he take his machete and behead the first person he sees, then eat their flesh and maybe see a movie after.


There you have it! Sadly I would do the same in Africa. Humans are easy to hunt...

But seriously the IQ test is a joke in my opinion as the brain function of each person is not the same.

----------


## Mister D

> Drop the average whit man with an average IQ for a white man (with no training) in the African jungle and take an African and drop him in the city. Who will survive?


A white man would quickly perish in the jungle for a variety of reasons unless well trained. Most Africans don't live in the jungle. I'm not sure what your point is.

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Common (04-30-2013)

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## Mister D

> Intelligence is mostly hereditary. The only people who refuse to acknowledge the intelligence differences in the races that are clearly physically different, are people who want to blame the failures of one on the successes of the other.


I think it's at least 50% inherited and the gap has a genetic component. Yes, the consequences of our failure to acknowledge this are fools errands, guilt trips, and increased racial tension.

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Henry Krinkle (04-30-2013)

----------


## Archer

> A white man would quickly perish in the jungle for a variety of reasons unless well trained. Most Africans don't live in the jungle. I'm not sure what your point is.


My point is that there are genetic differences in the brains that cause blacks to test lower than whites on the white IQ test. Go to africa and watch the inhabitants and develop a test tailored to blacks and whites may very well come up on the low end.

----------


## Henry Krinkle

> My point is that there are genetic differences in the brains that cause blacks to test lower than whites on the white IQ test. Go to africa and watch the inhabitants and develop a test tailored to blacks and whites may very well come up on the low end.


Astute observation and I hate to be blunt, but you actually make the point that the races are not equal due to genetic traits. We all developed differently with Caucasians and Asians becoming more intelligent that the rest. Europe did not develop on a whim, or by luck. The great age of enlightenment was a genetically inspired leap forward.

Now, if we all of the sudden find armageddon at our doorstep, we may want those Africans to help us fight, but we will still be leading the way.

----------


## Mister D

> My point is that there are genetic differences in the brains that cause blacks to test lower than whites on the white IQ test. Go to africa and watch the inhabitants and develop a test tailored to blacks and whites may very well come up on the low end.


Of course there are "genetic differences in the brain". That's sort of the point. 

Actually, whites and Asians tend to clobber blacks and browns even when the tests are "biased" against them. Psychmetricians have long acknowledged the charge of cultural bias and have modified tests for decades to address such an issue. Sorry, folks (i.e. progressives, Protestant fundamentalists _et al_) , but genetics is really going to become an increasingly bigger pain in the ass for you.

----------


## Archer

> Astute observation and I hate to be blunt, but you actually make the point that the races are not equal due to genetic traits. We all developed differently with Caucasians and Asians becoming more intelligent that the rest. Europe did not develop on a whim, or by luck. The great age of enlightenment was a genetically inspired leap forward.
> 
> Now, if we all of the sudden find armageddon at our doorstep, we may want those Africans to help us fight, but we will still be leading the way.





> Of course there are "genetic differences in the brain". That's sort of the point. 
> 
> Actually, whites and Asians tend to clobber blacks browns even when the tests are "biased" against them. Psychmetricians have long acknowledged the charge of cultural bias and have modified tests for decades to address such an issue. Sorry, folks (i.e. progressives, Protestant fundamentalists _et al_) , but genetics is really going to become an increasingly bigger pain in the ass for you.


Yes and those differences make for an interesting counter. If the roles were reversed and blacks made up the test would they be talking about the lower intelligence of the whites?

I am in no way suggesting grading on a curve as the current liberal ass educational and employment policies do. I am simply saying that the IQ test is not a valid test. Still there are generally across the board deficiencies.

----------


## Mister D

> Yes and those differences make for an interesting counter. If the roles were reversed and blacks made up the test would they be talking about the lower intelligence of the whites?
> 
> I am in no way suggesting grading on a curve as the current liberal ass educational and employment policies do. I am simply saying that the IQ test is not a valid test. Still there are generally across the board deficiencies.


Blacks are generally underrepresented in professions requiring high cognitive capacity so I would imagine that they are underrepresented in the ranks of psychometricians. Regarding your hypothetical, no, I don't see any reason why that would be the case particularly in light of that fact that east Asians as a group outscore whites.

----------


## Archer

> Blacks are generally underrepresented in professions requiring high cognitive capacity so I would imagine that they are underrepresented in the ranks of psychometricians. Regarding your hypothetical, no, I don't see any reason why that would be the case particularly in light of that fact that east Asians as a group outscore whites.


 As a rule yes. You dumb white people.

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## Mister D

> As a rule yes. You dumb white people.


Uh...OK.

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## Archer

> Uh...OK.


What? I thought it was funny :Smile:

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Mister D (04-30-2013)

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## Mister D

> What? I thought it was funny


Sometimes you have to get to know someone a bit better before you know how to take a comment.  :Smiley20:

----------


## Archer

> Sometimes you have to get to know someone a bit better before you know how to take a comment.


No problem. And for the record I am part native American which is of Asian descent. Still my IQ is lower than I will admit too. Don't ask :Smile: 

EDIT: I have a personal grudge against the entire setup for testing and the labeling of children. Screwed me up big time.

----------


## Common

> Of course there are "genetic differences in the brain". That's sort of the point. 
> 
> Actually, whites and Asians tend to clobber blacks and browns even when the tests are "biased" against them. Psychmetricians have long acknowledged the charge of cultural bias and have modified tests for decades to address such an issue. Sorry, folks (i.e. progressives, Protestant fundamentalists _et al_) , but genetics is really going to become an increasingly bigger pain in the ass for you.


  I cant totally agree with this Mr D, first ive run into alot of white dumbass' in my day and I have to say that Indians who are very brown are extremely intelligent when they are not so dirt poor and have living conditions a cockroach couldnt live in.
  I submit that all people starting out on the same start line will get to the finish line all about the same time. All things equal of course. I fully realize IQ and learning abilities differ between individuals, but not by race or ethnicities

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Mister D (04-30-2013)

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## Mister D

> I cant totally agree with this Mr D, first ive run into alot of white dumbass' in my day and I have to say that Indians who are very brown are extremely intelligent when they are not so dirt poor and have living conditions a cockroach couldnt live in.
>   I submit that all people starting out on the same start line will get to the finish line all about the same time. All things equal of course. I fully realize IQ and learning abilities differ between individuals, but not by race or ethnicities


I'm not demaning you agree. It's just seems by far the most plausible scenario to me. 

There are plenty white dumbasses. Group differences say nothing about individuals.

----------


## Mister D

> No problem. And for the record I am part native American which is of Asian descent. Still my IQ is lower than I will admit too. Don't ask
> 
> EDIT: I have a personal grudge against the entire setup for testing and the labeling of children. Screwed me up big time.



Native American IQ falls below the white average but, like I said, this says nothing about individuals. You could be a genius for all I know.

----------


## Henry Krinkle

> Yes and those differences make for an interesting counter. If the roles were reversed and blacks made up the test would they be talking about the lower intelligence of the whites?
> 
> I am in no way suggesting grading on a curve as the current liberal ass educational and employment policies do. I am simply saying that the IQ test is not a valid test. Still there are generally across the board deficiencies.


It's not just testing. There are real tangible reasons why Europe and Asia left Africa in the dust, and there's a real reason why Europe produced governments that went beyond monarchies. Political philosophy is the result of elevated intellect.

And the reason this is important, is for the last point you made above. If the differences in race based success can be pinned to outside influences (bad whitey), then the fix for the problem becomes affirmative action. 

I asked in my first post for someone to show the Caucasian tribe that practices cannibalism. I'll make it simpler, show the Caucasian jungle tribe that exists today?

----------


## Archer

> Native American IQ falls below the white average but, like I said, this says nothing about individuals. You could be a genius for all I know.


Well I disagree with the testing because just as some kids get labeled LD others get labeled AG. Trust me - for the new kid AG can be bad when you are bigger than the other students (like bigger than kids 4 or five years older). Imagine this: The geeks don't want you around because you don't look and act like them and the normal people don't want to deal with you because you have been labeled a geek.

My solution was - be me and kick ass if people screwed with me. Violent and very reactionary with very few friends. I blame the standardized testing!

Still it is all good because I have a self esteem on the border or narcissism. Actually the Army head shrinker said that I was a psychotic narcissist bordering on sociopath; I hate head shrinkers. Just because I said I want to get out there and kill people legally.

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Name the African, Peruvian, Meixcan, or Indian equivalents of-
> 
> Michelangelo, Leonardo DaVinic, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sir Issac Newton.
> 
> Name the European country, race or tribe that practices cannibalism.


Indian as in India, or Pocahontas?

----------


## Guest

> Name the African, Peruvian, Meixcan, or Indian equivalents of-
> 
> Michelangelo, Leonardo DaVinic, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, Sir Issac Newton.


Do you know how negative numbers came about?  Aztecs.  Jose Adem was a great mind in mathematics.  Art?  That is in the eye of the beholder.  Some people like Jacob Lawrence, others like Michelangelo.  




> Name the European country, race or tribe that practices cannibalism.


In the past?  Or now?  The Romans described it in what is now Europe, but they could be liars.  I don't know these things.

But I'm curious if you can name a non European country that practices it now.

----------


## Guest

> It's not just testing. There are real tangible reasons why Europe and Asia left Africa in the dust, and there's a real reason why Europe produced governments that went beyond monarchies. Political philosophy is the result of elevated intellect.


Asia had pens and paper when whites were still trying to figure out how to build a fire.




> I asked in my first post for someone to show the Caucasian tribe that practices cannibalism. I'll make it simpler, show the Caucasian jungle tribe that exists today?


I would love to see a jungle tribe today.  Period.

----------


## garyo

I would love to see a jungle tribe today.  Period.[/QUOTE]
Swing by my place.

----------


## Gemini

> Do you know how negative numbers came about?  Aztecs.  Jose Adem was a great mind in mathematics. .


Oh blarg.  Indeed, the orientals created paper.  Hooray for the extinct Aztecs for creating the concept of the negative number.

When they gonna crank out something break through like genetic engineering?  Or mylar sails for space craft?  Or the latest increase in nuclear power?

The bulk of technology in the world that we currently enjoy comes from Americans with european ancestry.

Believe me, if africa started crapping out technological wonders, or just built the better light bulb I'd sing their praises too.  But until they decide to collectively stop acting like brutes their technological advantage will always be second hand.

----------

Henry Krinkle (05-01-2013)

----------


## Guest

> Oh blarg.  Indeed, the orientals created paper.  Hooray for the extinct Aztecs for creating the concept of the negative number.
> 
> When they gonna crank out something break through like genetic engineering?  Or mylar sails for space craft?  Or the latest increase in nuclear power?
> 
> The bulk of technology in the world that we currently enjoy comes from Americans with european ancestry.
> 
> Believe me, if africa started crapping out technological wonders, or just built the better light bulb I'd sing their praises too.  But until they decide to collectively stop acting like brutes their technological advantage will always be second hand.


Does it matter?  Has technology made us better people, Gemini?  Not better at killing or destroying the planet, but better humans?  Are we kinder, more compassionate, spend more time with loved ones because of it?

Blarg back!

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## Maximatic

> Does it matter?  Has technology made us better people, Gemini?  Not better at killing or destroying the planet, but better humans?  Are we kinder, more compassionate, spend more time with loved ones because of it?
> 
> Blarg back!


No. Would we be better people without technology?

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## Guest

You know my answer.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Oh blarg.  Indeed, the orientals created paper.  Hooray for the extinct Aztecs for creating the concept of the negative number.
> 
> When they gonna crank out something break through like genetic engineering?  Or mylar sails for space craft?  Or the latest increase in nuclear power?
> 
> The bulk of technology in the world that we currently enjoy comes from Americans with european ancestry.
> 
> Believe me, if africa started crapping out technological wonders, or just built the better light bulb I'd sing their praises too.  But until they decide to collectively stop acting like brutes their technological advantage will always be second hand.


To add on to @Rina_Dragonborn, I've seen (yes, actually seen, as in with my own eyes in person) other, non-white countries, and by far their concept of "family" is far better than that of American/European whites. Especially American whites. That, to me, far outweighs superficial and ephemeral "advances" that have really just allowed man to still be a caveman, just a fancy one.

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## Maximatic

> You know my answer.


I thought you would tell me why, so I could tell you why not.

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## Guest

> I thought you would tell me why, so I could tell you why not.


Because it has enabled the modern family to splinter for at least 40 hours a week, sometimes more. The separation is an alienation of affection that causes undue stress and, IMO, promotes violence of thought, sociopathy, and ultimately the inability to fully and wholly love another.

And I'm drunk now so take that however you will.  I'm teetering between brilliance and incoherence right now.

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## Gemini

> To add on to @Rina_Dragonborn, I've seen (yes, actually seen, as in with my own eyes in person) other, non-white countries, and by far their concept of "family" is far better than that of American/European whites. Especially American whites. That, to me, far outweighs superficial and ephemeral "advances" that have really just allowed man to still be a caveman, just a fancy one.


Don't get me wrong, developing deep family relationship is something people shout strive to do.  

Those superficial, and ephemeral advances you balk at save gobs of lives every day so we can continue to develop our family relationships.  Without them we'd simply have fewer relationships because infant mortality rates would be much higher.  Death in general would be higher.

A staff infection can kill you.  Meningitis will kill you, we have antibiotics for both.  It doesn't mean we value each other any less because we have more technology.  I bet you I love my kid just as much as some hut dwelling guy in the middle of the jungle - regardless of my access to smart phones.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Don't get me wrong, developing deep family relationship is something people shout strive to do.  
> 
> Those superficial, and ephemeral advances you balk at save gobs of lives every day so we can continue to develop our family relationships.  Without them we'd simply have fewer relationships because infant mortality rates would be much higher.  Death in general would be higher.
> 
> A staff infection can kill you.  Meningitis will kill you, we have antibiotics for both.  It doesn't mean we value each other any less because we have more technology.  I bet you I love my kid just as much as some hut dwelling guy in the middle of the jungle - regardless of my access to smart phones.


For every technological advancement that saves lives, there's a technological advancement that allows you to take even more of them. Staph and meningitis vaccines won't bring back the lives lost to nuclear and chemical weapons, nor will it cure the survivors.

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## Gemini

> Does it matter?  Has technology made us better people, Gemini?  Not better at killing or destroying the planet, but better humans?  Are we kinder, more compassionate, spend more time with loved ones because of it?
> 
> Blarg back!


Implementation of the wielder will answer your question.

I call my folks all the time, even though I live hundreds of miles away.

There are those who live in the same town and don't speak to each other.

I can donate money via paypal if I wish to my charity of choice, and yet there are those with money coming out their nethers who wouldn't feed a homeless guy without reimbursement.

What you are suggesting, has no connection.  It is utterly individual regardless of available means.

I blarg-ed you first!

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## Gemini

> For every technological advancement that saves lives, there's a technological advancement that allows you to take even more of them. Staph and meningitis vaccines won't bring back the lives lost to nuclear and chemical weapons, nor will it cure the survivors.


Depends on the implementation of the technology.

A spear can be used to pick fruit, or kill a man.  A rock can grind wheat into flour or crush a man's skull.

Bottom line is that technology isn't evil, _it is what you do with it_ that can be good or evil and the results of its use.

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Henry Krinkle (05-01-2013)

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## Guest

> Implementation of the wielder will answer your question.
> 
> I call my folks all the time, even though I live hundreds of miles away.
> 
> There are those who live in the same town and don't speak to each other.
> 
> I can donate money via paypal if I wish to my charity of choice, and yet there are those with money coming out their nethers who wouldn't feed a homeless guy without reimbursement.
> 
> What you are suggesting, has no connection.  It is utterly individual regardless of available means.
> ...


No it is not.  The forty hour, away from home work week that replaced agrarianism has destroyed more families with affairs, alienation, etc.  You spend more time with coworkers than you do your family.  

Blargity blarg.

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## Gemini

> No it is not.  The forty hour, away from home work week that replaced agrarianism has destroyed more families with affairs, alienation, etc.  You spend more time with coworkers than you do your family.  
> 
> Blargity blarg.


I see what you are saying, but what I'm trying to convey is that their is no connection.  You're condemning the technology(if I am reading you right) for the _actions of the man_ with the use of technology.  The same man could choose to not spend all that time away from his family even with that technology.  It is an agency problem, not a technological problem.  Tech is a two edged sword.

I was in iraq for the first bit in my marriage, I used skype and internet chat messages to communicate with my wife.  Better than nothing - so I took it.  Better than being in the dark the whole time wondering if her husband was blown away if you ask me.

*grunt*...*fart*

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Depends on the implementation of the technology.
> 
> A spear can be used to pick fruit, or kill a man.  A rock can grind wheat into flour or crush a man's skull.
> 
> Bottom line is that technology isn't evil, _it is what you do with it_ that can be good or evil and the results of its use.


So, what's the alternative purpose to a nuke or a chemical weapon? Fucking insecticide?

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## Gemini

> So, what's the alternative purpose to a nuke or a chemical weapon? Fucking insecticide?


Well, despite how crassly you put it, insecticides are chemical weapons - tailored specifically to a target.

Nukes? The russians used them to close runaway oils wells that got out of control.  But really, I'd just use them for nuclear powered electricity by recycling the fissile material to a non-weapons grade level @<20%.

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## Maximatic

> Because it has enabled the modern family to splinter for at least 40 hours a week, sometimes more. The separation is an alienation of affection that causes undue stress and, IMO, promotes violence of thought, sociopathy, and ultimately the inability to fully and wholly love another.
> 
> And I'm drunk now so take that however you will.  I'm teetering between brilliance and incoherence right now.


Well, the 40 hr work week doesn't have much to do with technology, other than that, due to the good tools we have, we have the luxury of arbitrarily choosing the number of hours we spend working instead of working 'till we run out of daylight and hoping we accomplished enough to feed and clothe ourselves for another day.

The options we have now for amusement probably tempts us to spend less time with other people if the physical presence of another person is important, and I guess it probably is. I really don't see how technology contributes to psychopathy and violent thoughts. I, for one have far fewer violent thoughts now than I did 15 years ago, and I have more technology now. I know you're drunk, but you have the easier position to defend, I think. Your claim just has a certain intuitive ring of truth to it.

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