# Stuff and Things > The Pub >  Either destiny is predetermined, we are living in the Matrix, or...or...or

## Network

Hold on to your tinfoil here, folks. I'm not going to make any hypotheses.  Just present some coincidences.  This is not intended with any disrespect for lives that may have been lost in these cases.  I just believe in the laws of probabilities and right now, I see it at a 0.000000001% chance. 


-Town of "South Hinkley" on Batman map changed to "Sandy Hook" for _The Dark Knight Rises_, location of the last mass shooting.  Map has a "strike zone" circled in "Sandy Hook."
http://batmangothamcity.net/gotham-c...-knight-rises/


-Hurricane Sandy....makes a hook, how unusual is that?  




> *Sandy's Hook: How Unusual Is This?*
> 
> http://www.weather.com/news/weather-...track-20121024



July 20th, 2012 - B horror movie Review with this opening - *"Sandy Hook Lingerie Party Massacre"

*


> So here we have Sandy Hook Lingerie Party Massacre. Let’s say that again, SANDY HOOK LINGERIE PARTY MASSACRE! What do you think of when you see that combination of words? What’s in a title anyway? Does it have a cryptic meaning? Who is Sandy Hook? What on earth am I writing about? Let’s move on…
> 
> Posted on *July 20, 2012*, in Slasher
> http://aslashabove.com/2012/07/20/sa...e-2000-review/





> *Product Description*In a grisly spectacle of carnage, an unknown number of severed body parts wash ashore at Sandy Hook. A jogger literally stumbled upon an upper torso that had washed ashore as she sprinted down the beach at the end of the *torrential hurricane* that had knocked out power and had folks heading for the mainland.
> http://www.amazon.com/Sandy-Hook-Lin...gerie+massacre





> On Friday, *July 20, 2012*, a mass shooting occurred inside of a Century movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting




Active shooter at a school drill in the same county during the same hours.  




> _"By grim coincidence, even as the terrible events were unfolding in Newtown on Friday morning, the Putnam County Emergency Response Team (“ERT”) happened to be assembled for regular training in Carmel, and team members were at that very moment engaged in a mock scenario of an active-shooter in a school. The ERT is comprised of specially trained and heavily armed officers from the Sheriff’s Office and the Carmel and Kent Police Departments. When news broke of the Newtown shooting, the Putnam County ERT commander called Newtown Police and offered to have the ERT respond to the Sandy Hook school, but that response was not needed because Connecticut police had already secured the scene."
> _http://southeast.patch.com/articles/...this-afternoon




There's plenty more, going back to the Batman shooting....but I'll wait to see if there is any interest in this peculiar subject matter.

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## Calypso Jones

I've thought that was quite a coincidence....Hurricane Sandy and then Sandy Hook.

I am interested in what you have but i don't know anything about the batman references.

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## Network

Lil Wayne, probably the most popular artist in the world, certainly in rap, released a video one day before the batman shooting.




> *Lil' Wayne's shocking new video features skeletons in a movie theater and references to semi-automatic guns - but it was released BEFORE Colorado massacre*
> *
> PUBLISHED:* 12:18 EST, 23 July 2012 | *UPDATED:* 14:54 EST, 23 July 2012
> 
> When rapper Lil' Wayne released his latest single on Thursday, he likely thought that the scene where he and some friends are singing in a movie theater filled with skeletons was supposed to be fresh and unusual.
> 
> Given the fact that just hours later, a crazed gunman went on a fatal shooting spree in a Colorado movie theater, the decision seems an ill-timed one.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...atic-guns.html






Full of symbolism with mannequins (controlled, dehumanized) with guns and zebra stripes (split personalities) everywhere.  


This one takes the cake, other than theater full of skeletons  hours before the shooting.  Batgirl at the table with a Lamb and demonic figure(s).

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## Calypso Jones

So what are you saying.  Are you saying that someone is controlling this or is it some huge super coincidence.   Do you have some theory?

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## Network

> So what are you saying.  Are you saying that someone is controlling this or is it some huge super coincidence.   Do you have some theory?


I do, but when you only present the evidence, the "coincidences," then you're just presenting facts and letting others make up their minds.  Therefore, I'm not saying anything about it, other than coincidences sure do pile up.

I believe it is highly unlikely that this many coincidences occur around such major events and think there is something to it.

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## Calypso Jones

is it humanly inspired coincidences or more spiritual...and i don't mean God.

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## Network

> is it humanly inspired coincidences or more spiritual...and i don't mean God.



lol.  what do you think?

I know that Hollywood is full of occult symbolism at every turn, and I think they are full of shit.

Not going there.  

I think that all of these people are obviously committing suicide down a sinkhole....on a limited, non-government-money-tree budget.

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## Network

...or you're living in a nation/world with propaganda (including the advancements in technology) that would make Stalin and Hitler green with envy.  

You wouldn't believe what I could put before your very eyes (I just put a good bit before them).  People question their own eyes for their deeply ingrained trust in the "official" word.

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## Calypso Jones

I don't trust the official word.  I think that's evident.  But then neither do i believe in some huge worldwide global conspiracy.  People are not able to keep secrets that well..   AND people, regardless of their 'global' agenda have their own personal agendas that you cannot guarantee they will not consider first.      I think maybe that Satan is exerting even more control over the world than he now has.  he's stepped it up a notch or two.

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## Guest

> Hold on to your tinfoil here, folks. I'm not going to make any hypotheses.  Just present some coincidences.  This is not intended with any disrespect for lives that may have been lost in these cases.  I just believe in the laws of probabilities and right now, I see it at a 0.000000001% chance. 
> 
> 
> -Town of "South Hinkley" on Batman map changed to "Sandy Hook" for _The Dark Knight Rises_, location of the last mass shooting.  Map has a "strike zone" circled in "Sandy Hook."
> http://batmangothamcity.net/gotham-c...-knight-rises/
> 
> 
> -Hurricane Sandy....makes a hook, how unusual is that?  
> 
> ...


You know I'm with you on this.  I think Max should allow us to do our own podcast on this stuff.   :Big Grin:

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## lostbeyond

There is also the Chaos Theory.  Very practical to predict random events such as stock market day trades and short term weather patterns.  But even the Kalvinists (a Christian denomination) believed that everything is predetermined.  It seems that everything is connected and it is a difficult task to introduce a discontinuity into anything, to create independence and randomness.  

There is also a theory that there is no such thing as time, as such, and everything is coincidental.  Then it is a result of our own observations and experiences that we see everything decomposed into time progressions.

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## Network

You theorists shutdown a school!  Shame on you.




> A Virginia school district canceled classes Wednesday after an online article connected the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises” to the school shooting in Newtown, Conn., and, presumably, one that could occur in Narrows, a small town in western Virginia.
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...#ixzz2GyRN8fDN

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## Network

Connecticut...full of weirdos, especially this neighbor where kids allegedly ran (with the fire department closer/as close), and the goofiest medical examiner you've ever imagined.  The (few) parents we've heard from are also awfully calm and "new age" about this situation.  Hmmm...butterfly effect and chaos theory, yes, those would be on my mind..  





> At the service, mourners were dressed in Dylan’s favourite purple as his beloved bedtime story *Goodnight Moon* was read. 
> ........
> Nicole says: ‘We were talking about the idea of chaos theory. Dylan and all the other children and teachers who lost their lives are butterflies now. If one butterfly can cause a hurricane, then *26 butterflies can change the world*.
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arts-time.html






> *Batman: Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader?**
> 
> **Batman then says goodbye to gradual elements of his life in the form of** Goodnight Moon, saying goodnight to his Cave, his friends and allies, and his enemies.
> *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman:...ed_Crusader%3F






_And they took the babies out of the incubators.  


_

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## Network

May these ladies RIP if they are no longer with us.   

Left side blurred all the way through (except the shirt) on the suspiciously identically positioned pic on the right. The brown shirt is actually not sitting on the neck.  Same exact light/shine on the same exact location on both front teeth and part of the nose.  I've seen the same thing with other events...I don't get it. (yes i do, photoshop) why?  I dunno.







Anomaly

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## Calypso Jones

why.

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Network (01-04-2013)

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## Network

exactly.

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## Calypso Jones

well think about this.  no death involved except the 4 americans in benghazi.  Is it too outlandish to think that hillary is STILL faking it with the help of leftist doctors and gov't authority?    No damn clot, but all this done to protect herself and Obama from any questioning.

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## Network

> well think about this.  no death involved except the 4 americans in benghazi.  Is it too outlandish to think that hillary is STILL faking it with the help of leftist doctors and gov't authority?    No damn clot, but all this done to protect herself and Obama from any questioning.



None of it is out of the question, certainly not that.  That would be a piece of cake compared to the things that they lie about and even fake through imagery.

You do realize they released the "situation room" photo of the alleged bin Laden raid as a legitimate photo, right?  They had to admit that it was not legit and they were not watching the raid "because cameras went out".  Think I believe Obama really got bin Laden, didn't take pics, and threw him in the ocean?  ahahahahahellno

The mainstream media is completely complicit in anything the government asks of them.

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## Calypso Jones

It would take a very dedicated close knit group....and the circle would have to expand.   One would think it would be difficult to keep a secret as it got larger.

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## Network

> It would take a very dedicated close knit group....and the circle would have to expand.   One would think it would be difficult to keep a secret as it got larger.



I've thought the same, but you keep your mouth shut if you are under an understanding that you can be wiped off of the map.  Plus you have to consider those who believe the ends justify the means and go along with hoax because they are true believers and worthless humans.  

Military missions in another nation is rather easy.  That is a highly compartmentalized group, and even then it took them weeks to get the story straight.

I can only consider the fact that....they are faking images and what my other thread in this same area said, faked the hell out of everyone on 4 live shots during an epic event.  And if that happened, nothing is beyond them.

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## Network

Detective work because the media has been banned from the scene.  

Middle child *has no legs*, and is half-way giving a hand sign covered by Dad's super-long ring finger.  Youngest child has chewed through her fingers, leaving an all-too-common hand sign for the world to see.

Victim is off to the right by herself, in a weird arrangement for a family photo.  





Have any pictures of your child that you would feature for the last solid minute of a funeral video making this sign?  Yes, it is the "I love you" sign, a rare one indeed, that no one uses.  If you only knew how often this one shows up randomly, everywhere in TVland.  






Her father, acting like a Connecticut weirdo.

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## Calypso Jones

I have to admit he was a strange guy and that was a strange interview.    but i chalked it up to grief.....maybe not.   The hand signs...i don't think so.  That was a weird arrangement though...it wasn't even balanced and you'd think the photog would think of that.

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## Network

> I have to admit he was a strange guy and that was a strange interview.    but i chalked it up to grief.....maybe not.   The hand signs...i don't think so.  That was a weird arrangement though...it wasn't even balanced and you'd think the photog would think of that.



Where are the middle daughter's legs?


hand signs...yep.  

Find me a single real tear, somewhere, anywhere.  more bad acting, it's what they can afford.  2 networks interviewed this couple, but never gave their names. The internet knows their names, however.





Only pic I've seen of this one:





Anderson Cooper holding a drawing of an Owl with emphasis on one eye.  Yep.





Another one of the heroic teacher.  This photo is fake.  Check out the old fart in the background







Yet again, It is too much for coincidence.

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## Network

Add it all up. 

If one suspicion is true, then the story is false.  

I don't have to bust every facet of a story.  The whole truth should be the whole truth, and that applies to all of the media events that seem to happen at the most opportune times and they spend weeks and weeks discussing before new legislation is presented and signed.

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## countryboy

> Where are the middle daughter's legs?
> 
> 
> hand signs...yep.  
> 
> Find me a single real tear, somewhere, anywhere.  more bad acting, it's what they can afford.  2 networks interviewed this couple, but never gave their names. The internet knows their names, however.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Second pic is simply a kid drinking what looks like a Hawaiian type drink, throwing the Hawaiian Shaka sign. Nothing too unusual about that.

Was that last pic really broadcast on CNN, or is the whole thing a fake. I smell a rat.

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## Calypso Jones

where are these photos coming from?

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## Calypso Jones

When the colorado shooting occurred, those parents were not on television.  Were they?    It was a while before we saw these parents or heard from them....and they were not for gun control...do you remember this?

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## Network

Those pictures all came from CNN video clips, just like it says on the bottom right corner.  I've watched them all myself.

That pineapple drink does not look like it belongs there.  The point of that pic was that there is yet another case of a picture (the only I've seen of that child) which happens to show some sort of horn-ish hand sign.  

Don't underestimate the skills of video and especially picture fakery these days.  Been to the movies lately?  Seen massive robots flying around the screen and impossible explosions?  Yes.

I didn't follow the Batman shooting that much, at least on the MSM.  Mostly just saw clips of a smirking lesbian chick talking about almost being shot, on several channels/morning shows....and the typical MSM 10 different stories over 200 hours.

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## countryboy

> Those pictures all came from CNN video clips, just like it says on the bottom right corner.  I've watched them all myself.
> 
> That pineapple drink does not look like it belongs there.  The point of that pic was that there is yet another case of a picture (the only I've seen of that child) which happens to show some sort of horn-ish hand sign.  
> 
> Don't underestimate the skills of video and especially picture fakery these days.  Been to the movies lately?  Seen massive robots flying around the screen and impossible explosions?  Yes.
> 
> I didn't follow the Batman shooting that much, at least on the MSM.  Mostly just saw clips of a smirking lesbian chick talking about almost being shot, on several channels/morning shows....and the typical MSM 10 different stories over 200 hours.


It's not a  hornish hand sign, It's a Hawaiian shaka, obviously.

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## Network

> It's not a  hornish hand sign, It's a Hawaiian shaka, obviously.



Forms the horns, countrydude.  Just another broken law of probabilities that this many pics would have people posing with two fingers sticking up (no peace signs) in a small sample size.  

Maybe it is spiritual or we live in the Matrix.  It's just too much for my _normal meter_.

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## Calypso Jones

> Those pictures all came from CNN video clips, just like it says on the bottom right corner.  I've watched them all myself.
> 
> That pineapple drink does not look like it belongs there.  The point of that pic was that there is yet another case of a picture (the only I've seen of that child) which happens to show some sort of horn-ish hand sign.  
> 
> Don't underestimate the skills of video and especially picture fakery these days.  Been to the movies lately?  Seen massive robots flying around the screen and impossible explosions?  Yes.
> 
> I didn't follow the Batman shooting that much, at least on the MSM.  Mostly just saw clips of a smirking lesbian chick talking about almost being shot, on several channels/morning shows....and the typical MSM 10 different stories over 200 hours.


anybody can superimpose CNN in the lower right hand corner.  I've been looking and i've seen no photos like what you have posted. AND i notice that the photos never show the elbow.  Anyone's arm can be photoshopped onto an original to  make it look like the child is making that sign.  AND the photo with the old white haired guy in the background...looks photoshopped to me immediately.    Are you sure someone isn't having a good time.  Devilishly so but not accurate.

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## Calypso Jones

Okay.  i just saw little Grace McDonald's parents interview with Cooper.   not a tear.   Must have been drugged.   how do you talk about your daughter's white casket and marking it all upin her favorite designs with sharpies.   A little girl all about peace they said.   and not a tear.  That stupid grin the whole time.    weird.

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## DDave

Good Lord.

Is this place turning into the crazy land of Phil Jayhan and the Let's Roll Forums?

You know, Twin Towers were hollow on 9/11 -- actually for years before that -- and no one died?  They were all "vic-sims"??

 :Rolls Eyes:

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## Calypso Jones

in sign language, the so-called horns means I love You.  You have the thumb and first finger forming the L, the pinky in the I, the thumb extended and the pinky extended is Y.

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## Network

Torso to lower body angle - no.  Saturation on face compared to other skin - no.  What's the grey cloth on her right hip and how does it make sense when she's wearing a sweater?  

Something is fishy with pretty hero teacher.

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## The XL

> Detective work because the media has been banned from the scene.  
> 
> Middle child *has no legs*, and is half-way giving a hand sign covered by Dad's super-long ring finger.  Youngest child has chewed through her fingers, leaving an all-too-common hand sign for the world to see.
> 
> Victim is off to the right by herself, in a weird arrangement for a family photo.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I hadn't seen that video.  Wow.

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## Network

> I hadn't seen that video.  Wow.



They all act so...weird.  

Maybe the government has a new chemical they can spray over an entire town to turn them all into actor-ish zombies in the midst of a tragedy.

But I wouldn't want to be a theorist.  LOL

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## Irascible Crusader

> They all act so...weird.  
> 
> Maybe the government has a new chemical they can spray over an entire town to turn them all into actor-ish zombies in the midst of a tragedy.
> 
> But I wouldn't want to be a theorist.  LOL


Government is all powerful to conspiracy theorists.  Being a conspiracy theorist is all about the art of shutting off your brain and letting your fear do the thinking.

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## DDave

> Government is all powerful to conspiracy theorists.


And no one ever figures out that the all-powerful government is really behind all of the evil events.

Well, no one but the basement dwelling half wit Internet detectives with their amateur photo and video analysis that is who accuse grieving survivors of being "paid actors" because they didn't act sad enough.




> Torso to lower body angle - no.  Saturation on face compared to other skin - no.  What's the grey cloth on her right hip and how does it make sense when she's wearing a sweater?  
> 
> Something is fishy with pretty hero teacher.


There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING unusual about that photo.

Torso to lower body angle is perfectly normal for someone sitting sideways on a rock.

Saturation on the face . . . have you ever taken a picture with the sun reflecting off of a body of water as a backdrop??

Grey cloth on her right hip . . . IT'S PART OF HER SWEATER!!  My sister-in-law wears long sweaters like that all the time.  And, no, she doesn't work for the government.

Seriously, if you haven't already, you should check out www.letsrollforums.com.  They eat this kind of wacky shit up.  :Grin:

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## Network

Ready for some more evidence that we live in a computer program, or...or...or...?

Sandy Hook shape, main highway, waterway/river on the north border, and circled strike zone from the Batman map compared to Newtown, CT:








20 children, 6 adults _killed_.  20 circles on the map, 6 squares (not counting the legend at bottom left and counting the outermost shape at each location)


 





Batman prop-master (from Newtown) dies in a car wreck a few months before Batman movie hits theaters.





> *Newtown man dies in Stamford accident*
> 
> 
> STAMFORD -- A 46-year-old Newtown man who worked behind the scenes on numerous blockbuster films was killed in a head-on accident on the Merritt Parkway Friday evening.
> 
> Scott Getzinger, a property master who provided props for more than 25 films, including "Spider-Man," "Independence Day," "The Truman Show" and the upcoming "Men in Black III" and "The Dark Knight Rises," died at Stamford Hospital after sustaining severe injuries.
> 
> Getzinger suffered multiple broken bones, but was described as conscious and alert after being cut out of the 2002 Ford F-150 pickup truck he was driving. State police initially characterized his injuries as non-life threatening.
> http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news...#photo-2790801




I guess his injuries _were_ life-threatening after all.

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## Network

Hanging upside down like bats.  8+8 = 16 => Century 16 theater






Tear gas





Lil Wayne/Bane






Monarch (butterfly) Program (mind-control) symbolism.









> *Dylan, our beautiful butterfly: Proud parents of the British boy killed in America's worst school shooting open their hearts for the first time
> 
> A simple silver butterfly is pinned above her heart on the vibrant purple sweater she wears in honour of the little boy she called Mister D. .....*
> 
> Dylan brought untold fun and joy into our lives, she says with a smile. *Something good will come of this.* His death will have meaning.
> 
> I once asked him, Why do you flap? Because he had underdeveloped language skills, I was not expecting an answer but he replied, *Because I am a beautiful butterfly*. It meant a great deal to us because children with special needs are that much purer and more innocent and the idea of Dylan as a butterfly, now out of the cocoon of his body... it comforts me.
> http://www.usaukonline.com/latest-ne...irst-time.html



Weird people in CT, I tell you. 






> If you were to imagine the studio digs of Tina Weymouth and Chris Frantz, members of two defining new wave bands -- Talking Heads and Tom Tom Club -- you might not envision a cooler full of juice boxes in the corner. Today, though, the couple welcomed their newest collaborators: 20 school kids from Newtown, Connecticut, all aged in the single digits.
> They are the classmates, teammates, friends and neighbors of children killed by gunman Adam Lanza, whose attack on Sandy Hook Elementary School last December made headlines across the world. For two days this month, the kids -- many of them Sandy Hook students -- will record the Judy Garland classic "*Over The Rainbow*" in the Tom Tom Club studio (tucked into the couple's Fairfield, Connecticut home), under the eye of Weymouth, Frantz, and Newtown-based vocal coach Sabrina Post.
> 
> Speaking by phone to The Huffington Post Monday, Weymouth positioned the project as an appeal for a national conversation on stricter gun laws. "We fetishize guns and we fetishize children in this country. But I think we love our children more than our guns," she said.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2440882.html



Dorothy wants to get your guns and send them somewhere over the rainbow.  "Sandy Hook Records".   Synchronously Stupendous

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## DDave

> Ready for some more evidence that we live in a computer program, or...or...or...?


(YAWN)

Sorry, but that's not "evidence" as it doesn't prove anything.  Other than the fact that the person who created the blog where the image is hosted has too much time on their hands.

It's "opinion and speculation" at best.

At worst, and more accurately, it's ridiculous paranoid bullshit which makes for a good story to keep the gullible excited but not really worth much else.

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## Calypso Jones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Records

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## Network

The coincidences sure pile up.  The proof that children died or the media can get their story straight sure hasn't.

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## DDave

> Hanging upside down like bats.  8+8 = 16 => Century 16 theater


300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

Okay then . . .

7-eleven_logo.jpg

7 Eleven owners were responsible for 9/11

Eleven written as 11 is also the Roman numeral 2 and 7+2=9 which gives you 9 and, well 11 is spelled out for you.

Can it be any more obvious???

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## DDave

> The coincidences sure pile up.  The proof that children died or the media can get their story straight sure hasn't.


I'll grant you that the media can't get many stories straight and are less than trustworthy.

But no proof that children died??

Come on.

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## Guest

DDave, 

allow me to ask a question.  Do you believe there are occultists or satanists in existence?

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## Network

> I'll grant you that the media can't get many stories straight and are less than trustworthy.
> 
> But no proof that children died??
> 
> Come on.



I've seen about as much evidence as I did that bin Laden was killed.  Stories, conflicting ones.  No pictures or videos of even a wall with a hole in it. Just new age weirdo parents and medical examiners who seem like Stepford wives. Not a single wet tear.  Maybe there will also be a Blockbuster movie about it.

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## Guest

I know a lot of people, Christians, who will look at the satanism rampant in these images and still turn away and call it rubbish.

Many of these people are occultists.  The images, the numerology, and the push towards satanic goals of "doing what you want", "considering yourself a god", etc. should be readily apparent, but...it's uncomfortable to think that this could be something more than just circe de soleil

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## DDave

> DDave, 
> 
> allow me to ask a question.  Do you believe there are occultists or satanists in existence?


Absolutely.  




> I've seen about as much evidence as I did that bin Laden was killed.  Stories, conflicting ones.  No pictures or videos of even a wall with a hole in it. Just new age weirdo parents and medical examiners who seem like Stepford wives. Not a single wet tear.  Maybe there will also be a Blockbuster movie about it.


Did you inspect the crime scene yourself and find it to be clean and tidy like a school should be?

Or are you waiting for all those grueseome crime scene pictures to be posted on the Internet?

At which case you would scream that they were faked anyway so what good would it do?

Not a single wet tear?  You've been with all the witnesses and family members 24/7 since the shooting??

Don't get me wrong, I hear ya loud and clear that the government has proven itself to be less than trustworthy on more than one occasion but to say that EVERY FUCKING DISASTER or shooting or crime or whatever is staged is a bit much.

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## Calypso Jones

Ephesians 6:12

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Radio Waves are invisible and travel thru the air. Satan has control of the air.....radio, tv, cellphones, twitter,  etc,  internet. I'm not saying the internet is all evil. I'm just saying that a lot of it is being used by Satan.

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## Network

Likely boss man of the dead prop master.

production designer Nathan Crowley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Knight_Rises





> In an interview, Nathan said, “Yes, Aleister Crowley is a direct relative, he’s my grandfather’s cousin, but we were never allowed to even mention his name because we were a very Quaker family.”
> Nathan is also the production designer of Lady Gaga’s video ad for her perfume, _Fame_.
> http://www.adweek.com/news/advertisi...ga-fame-142761
> 
> In terms of “the dark side,” the full 5:41 version of the video-ad makes Dark Knight Rises look like a Disney cartoon by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/20...-police-audio/

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## Irascible Crusader

> I know a lot of people, Christians, who will look at the satanism rampant in these images and still turn away and call it rubbish.
> 
> Many of these people are occultists.  The images, the numerology, and the push towards satanic goals of "doing what you want", "considering yourself a god", etc. should be readily apparent, but...it's uncomfortable to think that this could be something more than just circe de soleil


Satan is a deceiver above all.  Jesus said he is the father of all lies and that when he lies, he speaks from his own resources.  A few people purposely worship Satan, but most people are just deceived by him, being his unwitting servants.  The only power that can break the deception of Satan is Christ who is "the way, the truth, and the life." By default, anyone who lacks Christ is deceived by Satan.  It's why even Jews swing so hard to the Left.

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## DDave

> Radio Waves are invisible and travel thru the air. Satan has control of the air.....radio, tv, cellphones, twitter,  etc,  internet. I'm not saying the internet is all evil. I'm just saying that a lot of it is being used by Satan.


Satan has been around and influencing people long before humans knew how to make use of radio waves.

I don't think Satan uses the Internet directly. :Smiley20:   But I'm sure a lot of the people he influences do.

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## Guest

> Satan has been around and influencing people long before humans knew how to make use of radio waves.
> 
> I don't think Satan uses the Internet directly.  But I'm sure a lot of the people he influences do.


So, if you believe that people are influenced, why can't these images be satanic?

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## Calypso Jones

that was awful.   What is the attraction for some people do you suppose?

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## DDave

> So, if you believe that people are influenced, why can't these images be satanic?


I don't recall saying that the images weren't satanic.  I was stating that not every horrific event is orchestrated by the government for some false flag purpose.  Which seems to be the angle of Network/September Clues/Let's Roll forum types.

I definitely believe that people can be influenced and that there is evil in the world.  I would be very apt to believe that the likes of Holmes, Loughner, Lanza etc. may be into some evil/occult shit that contributed to their behavior.  But I don't know that I'd say (and I don't know that anyone is . . . yet) that the government is behind it and has been infiltrated by evil satanists.

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## Guest

> I don't recall saying that the images weren't satanic.  I was stating that not every horrific event is orchestrated by the government for some false flag purpose.  Which seems to be the angle of Network/September Clues/Let's Roll forum types.
> 
> I definitely believe that people can be influenced and that there is evil in the world.  I would be very apt to believe that the likes of Holmes, Loughner, Lanza etc. may be into some evil/occult shit that contributed to their behavior.  But I don't know that I'd say (and I don't know that anyone is . . . yet) that the government is behind it and has been infiltrated by evil satanists.


This isn't "satanic"?  Hoods, fire, giant owl?

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## DDave

> This isn't "satanic"?  Hoods, fire, giant owl?


What's the context?

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## Guest

> What's the context?


Every summer our politicians head over there, put the hoods on, dance around a fire in front of that giant owl and pretend to sacrifice a baby...all in good, clean, college-like fun.

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## DDave

> Every summer our politicians head over there, put the hoods on, dance around a fire in front of that giant owl and pretend to sacrifice a baby...all in good, clean, college-like fun.


Well the baby part sounds disgusting.  I'd like more context though.

Head over where?  All politicians?  Is there a name for this ceremony?

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## Guest

> Well the baby part sounds disgusting.  I'd like more context though.
> 
> Head over where?  All politicians?  Is there a name for this ceremony?


A news report from 1984





The "play" ritual is called the "Cremation of Care"

*Cremation of Care*  
_Cremation of Care_ in 1907


 
 A dress rehearsal for the 1909 Grove Play, _St. Patrick at Tara_


 The _Cremation of Care_ ceremony was first conducted in the Bohemian Grove at the Midsummer encampment in 1881, devised by James F. Bowman with George T. Bromley playing the High Priest.[18]  It was originally set up within the plot of the serious "High Jinks"  dramatic performance on the first weekend of the summer encampment,  after which the spirit of "Care", slain by the Jinks hero, was solemnly  cremated. The ceremony served as a catharsis for pent-up high spirits,  and "to present symbolically the salvation of the trees by the club..."[19] The _Cremation of Care_  was separated from the Grove Play in 1913 and moved to the first night  to become "an exorcising of the Demon to ensure the success of the  ensuing two weeks."[20] The Grove Play was moved to the last weekend of the encampment.[21]
 The ceremony takes place in front of the Owl Shrine, a 40-foot (12 m)  hollow owl statue made of concrete over steel supports. The moss- and  lichen-covered statue simulates a natural rock formation, yet holds  electrical and audio equipment within it. For many years, a recording of  the voice of club member Walter Cronkite was used as the voice of The Owl during the ceremony.[1] Music and pyrotechnics accompany the ritual for dramatic effect.


...

Now, sure you can say it's just spirited hijinks but if your local minister was engaging in hijinks like this...what would you think of him?

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## DDave

> Now, sure you can say it's just spirited hijinks but if your local minister was engaging in hijinks like this...what would you think of him?


Well, my "minister" is a Catholic priest so I don't think he'd be invited.  :Smiley20: 

Aside from that it sounds like more speculation of the "the world is run by a secret shadow government" stuff.

Just read some of the Wikipedia article about it.  I see Alex Jones is worried about it which makes me even less concerned about it.  I don't recall seeing anything in the article about cremating a baby.

So in context it seems to change quite a bit.  Your original statement that "Hoods, fire, giant owl?' make it automatically satanic seem a bit unfounded.

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## Guest

> Well, my "minister" is a Catholic priest so I don't think he'd be invited.


Because why?  John 18:20 ..._in secret I have done nothing.

_


> Aside from that it sounds like more speculation of the "the world is run by a secret shadow government" stuff.


Why does it seem like "the world is run by a secret shadow government" stuff?  What exactly does that mean and because some people say it why does it make them wrong?

Shouldn't you have a logical argument as to why it is okay for our political leaders and heads of state to meet behind closed doors in such a manner?




> Just read some of the Wikipedia article about it.  I see Alex Jones is worried about it which makes me even less concerned about it.  I don't recall seeing anything in the article about cremating a baby.


So?  Don't make a logical fallacy and dismiss something because of who believes it.  Look at the ABC news program from the 80's I posted, look at the cross references in Wiki and then make the call.

Alex Jones is a Christian.  Is Jesus now a myth?




> So in context it seems to change quite a bit.  Your original statement that "Hoods, fire, giant owl?' make it automatically satanic seem a bit unfounded.



Again, why?  You tell ME why grown men wear hoods (they don't deny this) or dance around a giant owl (they don't deny this) and sacrifice a fake baby (they don't deny this).  They only caveat it with...it's in good fun.

Tell me why they should do this and why you don't feel that mimicking occult rituals is by definition occultic.
1.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Every summer our politicians head over there, put the hoods on, dance around a fire in front of that giant owl and pretend to sacrifice a baby...all in good, clean, college-like fun.


Many of them are members of the Masons or clandestine fraternities like it.  I consider them all to be satanic.  Christians seek to dwell in the light. Satan seeks out the seclusion of darkness.  It's not difficult to tell whether they serve God or the god of this world.

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## Guest

> Many of them are members of the Masons or clandestine fraternities like it.  I consider them all to be satanic.  Christians seek to dwell in the light. Satan seeks out the seclusion of darkness.  It's not difficult to tell whether they serve God or the god of this world.


Exactly.  Catholics have no excuse for this because we are told NO SECRET SOCIETIES.  Over and over.

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## Network

I left the options open as to why there are all of these mysterious coincidences, far beyond any reasonable probability, especially considering the sheer number of them, some stronger than others.

What if it is signs from God to prove his existence and his foreknowledge of all things to come?  What if his aura has enveloped the entire town of Newtown to comfort them, and turned them all into Jesus-like, forgiving, emotionless androids?



This smiley has more tears than that entire town.

 :Tearyeyed:

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## Irascible Crusader

> Exactly.  Catholics have no excuse for this because we are told NO SECRET SOCIETIES.  Over and over.


There's actually a small number of Catholics who buck against the expressed prohibition against joining the Masons and they are of course in schism.  For us devout Catholics, the question is a very simple one, do we accept the authority of the Catholic Church, that same authority by which Christ commissioned the Church to begin with?  The question "where is your authority?" is what finally made me decide to become fully Catholic whereas before I was straddling the fence.  As St. Augustine said, "I should not even believe the gospels except for the authority of the Roman Catholic Church."

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## Network

If you believe in magic
Come along with me
We'll dance until morning, just you and me.


I see that CIA-intern Anderson Cooper has his albino mitts all over this one, included a pitiful hit piece on this professor.  Time to realize it's the Truman Show.  And all they do is lie, cheat, and steal...and bomb.


FAU Professor James Tracey but you can call him detective Dick Tracy. 




> _"Along these lines and despite countervailing facts and inconsistencies the official story of the Sandy Hook shooting is now part of the nation’s collective experience, consciousness and memory. To declare that the shooting “never took place” is cause for intense opprobrium in most polite circles where, in familiar Orwellian fashion, the media-induced trance and dehistoricized will to believe maintain their hold. Similarly, an individual who contends that Timothy McVeigh was an accessory in a much larger operation at Oklahoma City, Osama bin Laden was not responsible for the events of 9/11, or the World Trade Center Towers were brought down by controlled demolition is vigorously condemned for thought crimes against the state. Such are the immense dimensions of mass manipulation where fact and tragedy may be routinely revised and reinforced to fit the motives and designs toward a much larger apparatus of social and geopolitical control."_
> http://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/01...on-of-tragedy/

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## DDave

> Because why?  John 18:20 ..._in secret I have done nothing._


Well, he's not particularly rich or influential in the political arena.  Sounds like a pretty exclusive club.




> Why does it seem like "the world is run by a secret shadow government" stuff?  What exactly does that mean and because some people say it why does it make them wrong?


It seems from the ABC (if that's what it was, I saw no reference to a network) that they were more pissed about it being exclusive rich white male stuff.  What "the world is run by a secret shadow government" means is exactly what is says.  Some people believe that the world is run by a secret shadow government.  Saying it does not make them wrong.  Claiming it with no evidence makes them wrong.

Well, actually, claiming it with no evidence doesn't make them wrong.  They could still be right I suppose.  But without some pretty compelling evidence, I would hedge my bets on the side that they are wong.




> Shouldn't you have a logical argument as to why it is okay for our political leaders and heads of state to meet behind closed doors in such a manner?


Shouldn't you have a logical arguement as to why it is NOT okay for our political leaders and head of state to meet behind closed doors in such a fashion that does not rely on unfounded accusations?




> So?  Don't make a logical fallacy and dismiss something because of who believes it.  Look at the ABC news program from the 80's I posted, look at the cross references in Wiki and then make the call.


I did look at the news program.  And I read the Wiki article.  Thanks for linking those.  I found NO references to the occult in the vid unless I missed it.  Granted I was multitasking.  I saw no references to the occult in the Wiki article UNTIL Alex Jones was mentioned.




> Alex Jones is a Christian.  Is Jesus now a myth?


Nice straw man.

Alex Jones is an attention whore who likes to whip up gullible people into a frenzy.  I'm sure there are many things that Alex and I agree on -- among them water is wet and the sun is hot..  I'm sure there are many more that we don't agree on.




> Again, why?  You tell ME why grown men wear hoods (they don't deny this) or dance around a giant owl (they don't deny this) and sacrifice a fake baby (they don't deny this).  They only caveat it with...it's in good fun.


I'll admit, you've got me on the hoods and I don't know enough about the ceremony to know the significance.  The owl represents knowledge.  I saw no mention of a fake baby.




> Tell me why they should do this and why you don't feel that mimicking occult rituals is by definition occultic.


I don't think you have established that they are mimicking occult rituals.  Because they use symbols?  Is a high school CSF (California Scholarship Federation) initiation with its use of symbols "occultic"?

Do you believe that there is some secret society pulling the strings to run the world that worships satan?




> Exactly.  Catholics have no excuse for this because we are told NO SECRET SOCIETIES.  Over and over.


There are lots of organizations that do good things but keep their initiation ceremonies secret and have lots of symbolism.  Tell me, what's your position on the Rotary Club?, Exchange Club?,  Knights of Columbus?




> This smiley has more tears than that entire town.


You make judgments by what you see on TV and the Internet.  You have no idea what these people are going through.

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## Guest

> Well, he's not particularly rich or influential in the political arena.  Sounds like a pretty exclusive club.


Of politicians, heads of business, etc.




> I'll admit, you've got me on the hoods and I don't know enough about the ceremony to know the significance.  The owl represents knowledge.  I saw no mention of a fake baby.


As a Catholic you believe that this is acceptable?  Yes or no?  I'm just curious because I don't think this is Christian behavior.  This isn't the Knights of Columbus, this is putting on hoods, getting out candles, and pretending to sacrifice people.

They put out their own booklet, here is one of their old pics:

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Network (01-13-2013)

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## Network

Let's see the security camera vids from both Aurora and Newtown.  You can just show us these perpetrators (oops I mean 1 perpetrator at each event) coming into the building/&leaving the building in Aurora.  No violent scenes must be included.

*SEALED*

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## Guest

Yes, why aren't these things released?  Don't we want to see the picture of a dead bin Ladin and the cameras from the theater and school.

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## Network

> Yes, why aren't these things released?  Don't we want to see the picture of a dead bin Ladin and the cameras from the theater and school.



They did release a picture of dead bin Laden on a mainstain site, but it was demolished as a fake within an hour, and they said "oops"!

We don't want to piss off Muslims who are hellbent on destroying us, you know!

The footage from these massacres are classified, I guess because they might _compromise the security of the homeland_.  Not sure where I'm coming up with that from, possibly because that is the response when they were asked for the NIST models detailing the collapse of a building in NY or something.

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## Irascible Crusader

> Yes, why aren't these things released?  Don't we want to see the picture of a dead bin Ladin and the cameras from the theater and school.


My personal favorite was the Saddam Hussein hanging:

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## Network

Anyone seen "Zero Dark Thirty" yet?   The story is where it belongs now, in Hollywood.





> *Obama watched Bin Laden die on live video as shoot-out beamed to White House*
> 
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1LIIde9UI




Question #1 classic Dodge





> “Did you have access to video of what was actually happening in the compound, et cetera?” asked Lehrer. “We had live-time intelligence information that we were dealing with,” Panetta replied cagily.“Did you actually see Usama bin Laden get shot?” Lehrer followed up. “No,” Panetta answered. “No, not at all. We - you know, we had some observation of the approach there, but we did not have direct flow of information as to the actual conduct of the operation itself as they were going through the compound.”
> 
> Here was the first time any senior Obama aide admitted to being in the dark for some parts of the raid – to enjoying access to something less than what Brennan had described, with deliberate broadness, as “real-time visibility into the progress of the operation.”
> 
> Since Panetta had tracked events from a special command post at CIA headquarters in Langley, Lehrer pressed the issue still further. “So…did the president see the shots fired at Usama bin Laden?” the veteran newsman asked. “No,” Panetta answered again. “No, not at all….[W]e knew that the helicopters had - were on the ground, that the teams were going into the compound. And that was the kind of information that we were following. Once those teams went into the compound, I can tell you that there was a time period of almost twenty or twenty-five minutes where we - you know, we really didn't know just exactly what was going on.” [Fox News]




Daily Mail fail again.  Obviously photoshopped hand on Bennie's wife.  Obviously fake complete arrangement of a disastrous layered montage actually.  


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ror-chief.html

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----------


## DDave

> As a Catholic you believe that this is acceptable?  Yes or no?


As a Catholic,  if they are doing what you _say_ they are doing, then, no, I don't think it is acceptable behavior.

However, as a skeptic, I don't think they are doing what you say they are doing.




> I'm just curious because I don't think this is Christian behavior.


From your link . . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation_of_Care




> _In 1881, the ceremony of the Cremation of Care was first conducted after the various individual performances, with James F. Bowman as Sire.The ceremony was further expanded in 1893 by a member named Joseph D. Redding, with a Midsummer High Jinks entitled The Sacrifice in the Forest, or simply "Druid Jinks", in which brotherly love and Christianity battled and won against paganism, converting the druids away from bloody sacrifice._


It appears that the accusations of "occultish" behavior started with Alex Jones.  And Jones "investigation was looked at and a very different conclusion was reached.




> _Jones' investigation were covered by Jon Ronson in Channel 4's four-part documentary, Secret Rulers of the World. Ronson documented his view of the ritual in his book, Them: Adventures With Extremists, writing "My lasting impression was of an all-pervading sense of immaturity: the Elvis impersonators, the pseudo-pagan spooky rituals, the heavy drinking. These people might have reached the apex of their professions but emotionally they seemed trapped in their college years."_


Also if one looks at the original intentions of the ceremony . . .




> _This "cremation" symbolizes that members are banishing the "dull cares" of conscience. At the time the script was developed, the primary meaning of the word 'care' (< O.E. cearu, "anxiety, anguish") was synonymous with 'worry', having more negative connotations than in modern times when it tends to be associated more positively with compassion.
> _


So . . . sorry . . . I'm still  not seeing the dark sinister aspects of this ritual that you seem to see.

But understand that I in no way discount the fact that there ARE plenty of people who participate in pagan, dark, sinister rituals.  It's just that when the likes of Alex Jones accuses people of doing . . . well anything . . . I like to research it for myself and decide.

But what's your larger point?  Are you saying that some occult force is controlling the leaders of the world and things like what goes on at Bohemia Grove is proof of that?

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## Guest

> As a Catholic,  if they are doing what you _say_ they are doing, then, no, I don't think it is acceptable behavior.
> 
> However, as a skeptic, I don't think they are doing what you say they are doing.


This man Jon Ronson  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Ronson

Read that and tell me if you would classify him as someone who believes in conspiracies like this.

He was writing a book about conspiracy theorists and extremists to make fun of them.  He snuck in to Bohemian Grove and confirms that this is exactly what they do inside, although he felt it was just like a fraternity ritual.

Read the book: Them, Adventures with Extremists.

I'm saying that allegedly Christian men are dressing up and pretending to sacrifice babies in a fake ritual and that this is inherently not Christian.

I'm saying nothing more than that.

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## Network

2012 Olympics closing ceremony, not even to bring in the rest of that occultist, one worlder fapfest.  Bird is a phoenix instead of a dove and is heading the opposite direction, but the similarities are apparent.

Olympic symbolism -> one world (phoenix) rising from (the ashes) of all the nations, with a pyramid on top, of course. 










> *Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.)* (_Order of the Temple of the East_) is an international fraternal and religious organization founded at the beginning of the 20th century. English author and occultist Aleister Crowley has become the best-known member of the order.
> Originally it was intended to be modelled after and associated with Freemasonry,[1] but under the leadership of Aleister Crowley, O.T.O. was reorganized around the Law of Thelema as its central religious principle. This Law—expressed as “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis

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## DDave

> I'm saying that allegedly Christian men are dressing up and pretending to sacrifice babies in a fake ritual and that this is inherently not Christian.
> 
> I'm saying nothing more than that.


But in the Wiki article that you linked explains what the ritual means.  It is the victory of brotherly love and Christianity over paganism.  They are not sacrificing babies, they are sacrificing anxiety and anguish.   Your own source states this but rather than believe it you choose to believe what Alex Jones interpretation is instead.

Why is that?

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## Guest

Wow, @Network I'm glad you linked to this.  I never responded to that cat.

My answer: because I'm not going by what Alex Jones says.  I'm going by what I know having attempted to double major in ancient history.  That owl is an ancient symbol and there is nothing in the ritual that looks to be Christianity rising over ANYTHING.  There are no crosses, no mention of Jesus, nothing but a fake sacrifice of a kid.

And sex with male prostitutes.  As Nixon said: _It was the faggiest thing I ever saw._

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Network (03-28-2013)

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## Network

> Wow, @Network I'm glad you linked to this.  I never responded to that cat.
> 
> My answer: because I'm not going by what Alex Jones says.  I'm going by what I know having attempted to double major in ancient history.  That owl is an ancient symbol and there is nothing in the ritual that looks to be Christianity rising over ANYTHING.  There are no crosses, no mention of Jesus, nothing but a fake sacrifice of a kid.
> 
> And sex with male prostitutes.  As Nixon said: _It was the faggiest thing I ever saw._



lol.  excellent thread bump.  You told him for sure and probably got the final word!

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