# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Cop punches pregnant woman to "change the channel"

## TheTemporaryBG

Now I will admit that this story has a lot of iffy stuff in it.  The cops showed up for a domestic dispute between teens living in the house and by the time they got there things had been worked out but they wanted to make the arrest anyway.  

I have a problem with this.  If you're the one injured or your things were stolen you should have the right not to press charges even if the whole rest of the world thinks you should.

Anyway, she threatened the cops who were dragging the brother our with pepper spray so they had to punch her because punching is a routine procedure that can help to "change a channel".  You can't subdue her with your arms because God forbid you actually get hurt by a woman.  No you have to punch her, grab her, ram her head into railings, then when she resists because you've used extreme force over a verbal threat, you get to bang her off the concrete and punch her a few more times to "change her channel".

To the other vets out there: see what I mean?  Pussies.

http://www.copblock.org/37618/roches...r-lucas-krull/
_The Rochester, NY Police officer who was caught on video driving a pregnant woman into a wooden porch bannister railing, punching her in her head, then throwing her on the ground, has been identified as RPD officer Lucas Krull._
_And apparently, despite the fact that he beat a pregnant woman, and that it was captured on video, his boss, RPD Chief James Sheppard defended Krull at a 2 pm news conference held the Public Safety Building._
_According to Rochester, NY Police Chief James Sheppard, Krull was just doing his job._
_The fact that she may have been pregnant or not, I do not know, said Sheppard._
_At a news conference held in the Public Safety Building, Sheppard defended Rochester Police officer punching 21-year old Brenda Hardaway on the side of her head with a closed fist._
_Sheppard said the strike was part of a technique used by RPD officers._
_When we receive resistance from an individual, we may strike you in a way that changes your channel so to speak. In a way that changes your resistance._
_Changes your channel?_
_Shepard said that his officers were called to Selye Terrace on Rochesters northwest side for a domestic dispute, and a short time later, placed Hardaways 16-year old brother, Romengeno Hardaway, under arrest._
_Sheppard then said that Brenda Hardaway threatened officers with pepper spray._
_At that point, Sheppard said, officer placed Brenda Hardaway under arrest._
_RPD Chief James Sheppard, who was in full spin-mode at the press conference looked like a man in denial._
_A man who knows that his officers are out of control._
_A man who knows that the very same community that he so desperately wants respect from, looks at him for what he is._
_A complete hypocrite and sellout._
_Look, heres the thing, was the woman resisting?_
_Perhaps she was._
_That doesnt justify, Rochester Police officer Lucas Krull punching her in her head, then throwing her to ground, even though she told officer Krull that she was pregnant._
_Perhaps the young man who recorded the video, Henry Loggins, said it best._
_I dont respect any man who puts his hands on a woman, and shes a pregnant woman._

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BleedingHeadKen (08-29-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-29-2013)

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## 007

Police overreach.
They see themselves as our controllers.

They forget who pays their salaries!!

TIME THEY STARTED TO SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT!!

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## Canadianeye

> Police overreach.
> They see themselves as our controllers.
> 
> They forget who pays their salaries!!
> 
> TIME THEY STARTED TO SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT!!


That does have a great deal to do with it. On a basic level they really have stopped even acknowledging that they are paid by us.

Somehow, this must but be forcibly reminded to them. I guess it would have to be the judiciary, since they are vote accountable to the citizenry, so they could be leveraged to deal with these imbeciles who are far beyond over reach at this point.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> That does have a great deal to do with it. *On a basic level they really have stopped even acknowledging that they are paid by us.*


You've hit the nail on the head.

So what do we do?

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## BleedingHeadKen

> Police overreach.
> They see themselves as our controllers.
> 
> They forget who pays their salaries!!
> 
> TIME THEY STARTED TO SHOW A LITTLE RESPECT!!


The government pays their salaries, and they enforce government rules. And, since the government makes the rules and brooks no competition in the enforcement of them, this is what you get. It's not going to change, though eventually we'll see some lip service paid to the problem. It's all part of conditioning the sheep.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

Where the cop lovers at? I miss watching them slither about in agony on all the anti-cop threads.

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## Perianne

> Where the cop lovers at? I miss watching them slither about in agony on all the anti-cop threads.


TP, sometimes you have an unfortunate way of stating things.  I do not "slither about in agony".  I read these threads and let you guys share your opinion.  Nothing is wrong with that, is there?  I, for one, feel no need to express every thought I have.

As I have stated, I have dated several cops.  I believe they have one of the more difficult jobs anywhere.  As a group, I like them, but not the bad apples in the bunch.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> TP, sometimes you have an unfortunate way of stating things.  I do not "slither about in agony".  I read these threads and let you guys share your opinion.  Nothing is wrong with that, is there?  I, for one, feel no need to express every thought I have.
> 
> As I have stated, I have dated several cops.  I believe they have one of the more difficult jobs anywhere.  As a group, I like them, but not the bad apples in the bunch.


I wasn't even thinking about you when I typed that. Trust me, if I have something to say about you, it'll either be in PM or it'll draw your attention with a "@Perianne."

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Perianne (08-29-2013)

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## Canadianeye

> You've hit the nail on the head.
> 
> So what do we do?


Are you asking seriously, or forum fluff stuff?

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## Max Rockatansky

Whoever took the video is lucky they didn't get _their_ channel changed.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> Are you asking seriously, or forum fluff stuff?



Seriously.  I'm of two minds on this one.  One is to go the Sons of Liberty approach and have a good lawyer or try the usual vote approach.

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## 007

> TP, sometimes you have an unfortunate way of stating things.  I do not "slither about in agony".  I read these threads and let you guys share your opinion.  Nothing is wrong with that, is there?  I, for one, feel no need to express every thought I have.
> 
> As I have stated, I have dated several cops.  I believe they have one of the more difficult jobs anywhere.  As a group, I like them, but not the bad apples in the bunch.


Being a cop is easy.
pulling over motorists to boost state coffers.
acting like your badge makes you a superior being!!

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## gamewell45

> TP, sometimes you have an unfortunate way of stating things. I do not "slither about in agony". I read these threads and let you guys share your opinion. Nothing is wrong with that, is there? I, for one, feel no need to express every thought I have.
> 
> As I have stated, I have dated several cops. I believe they have one of the more difficult jobs anywhere. As a group, I like them, but not the bad apples in the bunch.


Agreed, every job, no matter what job it is has bad apples.

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## Calypso Jones

Perhaps channel changing is only necessary for white resistance.

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## 007

Why do cops insist you put out your cigarette when they pull you over?
Or demand you hang up your phone?
its a power play!!
nothing more.
They all come up with those little power things.
Few bad apples?

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## Coolwalker

If it's on video, and there was no just cause, she can sue the police department.

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## Matt

> Why do cops insist you put out your cigarette when they pull you over?
> Or demand you hang up your phone?
> its a power play!!
> nothing more.
> They all come up with those little power things.
> Few bad apples?


I want to read the OP first before I comment on the larger story but I had to comment on this one. It's because people are talking to you. Hang it up, put it out, it's not just cops. My ambulance rolls up guess what's happening....you are putting your cigarette out and hanging up the phone. I've physically hung up people's phones before. It's disrespectful.

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## Matt

Alright. I've read the story now. I wish there was a better source than that radical blog however. It's almost like finding facts on a radical liberal site about Obama....it's just not there. They have an agenda and they don't fit into it. This blog is about the same and the author of it clearly hates cops. So I'll let that slide but to me that's a credibility buster already. 

On one side I have an issue with how the the police officer is being treated in this thread. We, as tax payers, refuse to pay for the police to get anymore than a basic first aid training and some knowledge of an AED. Now we expect them to spontaneously tell the difference between a fat person and pregnant person while staring down a can of pepper spray. That to me is a little absurd. Make up your minds. The fact that she interfered in the very first place and pointed a weapon, pepper spray, at the officer is reason enough for her to be arrested. If she struggles and resists then of course there is going to be some hitting. You are not going to get into a fight and come out without bruises. What did she plan to do after incapacitating the officer? That's the scary part. 

On the other side I have an issue with the officer being able to hit her with a closed fist. That does't seem right and it causes more injury than is needed. Simple martial arts would suggest tripping the suspect and then working on movements. You can do that without a closed fist. 

You'll hate me for this but God knows someone with some reason has to come in here and put an opinion forth that does not involve indiscriminate and bland hate for the police. She pointed pepper spray at the officer, she resisted arrest, and she got arrested - that is entirely her fault. The cop might have gone about it the wrong way but he has every right to defend himself. We seem to forget cops are citizens too. 

Lets just put this up front though. Respond maturely or I wont pay any attention to you.

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Perianne (08-29-2013)

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## 007

> I want to read the OP first before I comment on the larger story but I had to comment on this one. It's because people are talking to you. Hang it up, put it out, it's not just cops. My ambulance rolls up guess what's happening....you are putting your cigarette out and hanging up the phone. I've physically hung up people's phones before. It's disrespectful.


Your paid by the people who call you, right?
the customer is always right, your in a customers home, doing the job he pays you to do.
What right have you to make such demands of those who employ you?
It's disrespectfull.

On the other hand, you could argue that they invited you into their home to help.
still you need to respect them.
A motorist did not invite a cop into his car, it's the motorists car, he can smoke or use a phone in his car if it is stopped.
when a cop acts in a threatening and arrogant manner to the people who pay his wages, then he will not be respected.
It's a two way street.
some people think a uniform makes them superior to others.
Those people should not be in uniform.
even if they are government employees!!

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## 007

> Alright. I've read the story now. I wish there was a better source than that radical blog however. It's almost like finding facts on a radical liberal site about Obama....it's just not there. They have an agenda and they don't fit into it. This blog is about the same and the author of it clearly hates cops. So I'll let that slide but to me that's a credibility buster already. 
> 
> On one side I have an issue with how the the police officer is being treated in this thread. We, as tax payers, refuse to pay for the police to get anymore than a basic first aid training and some knowledge of an AED. Now we expect them to spontaneously tell the difference between a fat person and pregnant person while staring down a can of pepper spray. That to me is a little absurd. Make up your minds. The fact that she interfered in the very first place and pointed a weapon, pepper spray, at the officer is reason enough for her to be arrested. If she struggles and resists then of course there is going to be some hitting. You are not going to get into a fight and come out without bruises. What did she plan to do after incapacitating the officer? That's the scary part. 
> 
> On the other side I have an issue with the officer being able to hit her with a closed fist. That does't seem right and it causes more injury than is needed. Simple martial arts would suggest tripping the suspect and then working on movements. You can do that without a closed fist. 
> 
> You'll hate me for this but God knows someone with some reason has to come in here and put an opinion forth that does not involve indiscriminate and bland hate for the police. She pointed pepper spray at the officer, she resisted arrest, and she got arrested - that is entirely her fault. The cop might have gone about it the wrong way but he has every right to defend himself. We seem to forget cops are citizens too. 
> 
> Lets just put this up front though. Respond maturely or I wont pay any attention to you.


She was in her home, the cop had no warrant and was making an illegal arrest.
you have the legal right to defend your home and family against illegal activity.
even if the illegal act is bring committed by a cop.

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## 007

> I want to read the OP first before I comment on the larger story but I had to comment on this one. It's because people are talking to you. Hang it up, put it out, it's not just cops. My ambulance rolls up guess what's happening....you are putting your cigarette out and hanging up the phone. I've physically hung up people's phones before. It's disrespectful.


Why is it disrespectful to smoke when a cop pulls you over?
or to phone your lawyer, wife, parent?
what right does an ambulance driver have to force someone to hang up a phone because he is in the home?
what if the call was to a PCP?
To a child's school to arrange safe pickup of a child?
The arrogant self importance of an EMT assaulting a patients family member by snatching a phone from them and hanging it up could cause a kid to be kidnapped!!
your ego worth more than a kids life?

Try being respectful and mature.

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## Matt

> Why is it disrespectful to smoke when a cop pulls you over?
> or to phone your lawyer, wife, parent?
> what right does an ambulance driver have to force someone to hang up a phone because he is in the home?
> what if the call was to a PCP?
> To a child's school to arrange safe pickup of a child?
> The arrogant self importance of an EMT assaulting a patients family member by snatching a phone from them and hanging it up could cause a kid to be kidnapped!!
> your ego worth more than a kids life?
> 
> Try being respectful and mature.


You called me...the EMT. If you want to smoke or be on the phone...I'll leave. It's disrespectful. 

Calm down there. You seem much too angry to be debating with anyone. I'll wait until you relax so that we can maturely discuss this. 

The pissed off 12 year old debate is not something I am interested in. Try taking your own medicine.  :Wink:

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Perianne (08-29-2013)

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## 007

> You called me...the EMT. If you want to smoke or be on the phone...I'll leave. It's disrespectful. 
> 
> Calm down there. You seem much too angry to be debating with anyone. I'll wait until you relax so that we can maturely discuss this. 
> 
> The pissed off 12 year old debate is not something I am interested in. Try taking your own medicine.


Your need to resort to personal abuse and insult says much about you.

You get paid to do a job.
your customers pay you.
you don't know why the customer is on the phone.
you think you are so superior that you can stamp around a persons home like an SS trooper because you have a uniform?
If you tried it in my home, when I'm paying a minimum of $2000 an hour for you to be present, I would hurl you out on your jumped up arrogant $20.00 an hour arse.
Then I would call your competition and have them do the job.

I guess putting an insecure loser in a uniform and paying them shit gives rise to offacious arrogance!!

You are part if the problem of authoritarianism and totalitarianism that is growing in this country!

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BleedingHeadKen (08-30-2013)

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## Canadianeye

> Seriously.  I'm of two minds on this one.  One is to go the Sons of Liberty approach and have a good lawyer or try the usual vote approach.


In serious mode, I would go this route. All doable, with significant impact. Organize as many military patriots, youthful mostly. I would suggest an impact video, similar in theme and severity to the link of the Swiftboat Vets at the bottom of this post. I would target young republicans and young democrats, and asking them to make a stand for their country...to be the generation who will cross the aisle for real change. Within the video I would incorporate a number of issues, one of which obviously would be out of control LEOs, but could expand on Libertarian ideas, Ex military personnel being targeted regarding denial (PTSD schtick of the govt) of their 2nd amendment rights, etc. I would definitely highlight some Hispanic and African American medal winners in that video etc. Youth want to champion something. Racial equality is something they feel is something within their generational realm to champion.

Or, whatever you and your video/scripting team could come up with for impact. Mass it out to the links below of young repubs orgs and young dems orgs.

You have your marine buddies, a lawyer, more than a few exceptional techies..and the will to actually want to make an impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ge_Republicans

https://twitter.com/yrnf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Democrats_of_America

https://twitter.com/youngdems

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-29-2013),TheTemporaryBG (08-29-2013)

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## TheTemporaryBG

@Canadianeye

that is a very good idea.  We should probably start while we are all at least in the "low reg" zone still.  One of my housemates is black and a combat vet and I have a bunch of Hispanic marines on my call list.

I know shit to nothing about making a video, however.

I guess I could put something up on Craigslist.

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-29-2013)

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Perhaps channel changing is only necessary for white resistance.


Because blacks have never been victims of police brutality.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> @Canadianeye
> 
> that is a very good idea.  We should probably start while we are all at least in the "low reg" zone still.  One of my housemates is black and a combat vet and I have a bunch of Hispanic marines on my call list.
> 
> I know shit to nothing about making a video, however.
> 
> I guess I could put something up on Craigslist.


I have film experience and know multiple film editors.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> I have film experience and know multiple film editors.


And I'm incredibly good looking and photogenic.   :Big Grin:

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-29-2013)

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## Roadmaster

> I have a problem with this.  If you're the one injured or your things were stolen you should have the right not to press charges even if the whole rest of the world thinks you should.


 It doesn't happen that way anymore. When you call them, you take it out of your hands into theirs. If the DA wants to press charges they will with or without your consent. Call them only if you really need them.

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BleedingHeadKen (08-30-2013)

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## Canadianeye

Just a quick draft, not poking my nose into any sort of scripting as a Canuck...but something along these lines as an intro theme.

"To those who will be the future of our America, who hold our nation dear, and believe they can make a difference. A real difference.

This video is to you and is a path to change by crossing the aisle, finally, for our country.

We, some few proud Marines want to step across that political aisle, and address both young Dems and young Repubs, Libs and Cons...the right and the left, to talk about our vision and to see if it can be shared and expanded.

As our country now looks to another war, with all the same WMD talking points, and humanitarian issues and atrocities overseas, we want to find pause with the young people of our nation, prior to this tragedy. We few have served, and understand that many of you have as well, in various different degrees and avenues. Some have fought for us to be brought home, some fought alongside us and some took to the streets in protest, from both political camps.

Is there a chance we can bring together, outside of the current and set ideological political parties who marganilze our real interests in our nation? Can there not be a libertarian voice that can raise up and carry across the aisle...for a victory of the nation above the archaic victory for party, business as usual?"

You get my drift. At some point introduce LEO issues etc.

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Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-29-2013),Terminal Lance (08-29-2013),TheTemporaryBG (08-29-2013)

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## TheTemporaryBG

We could probably also dig up some female marines if we had to.  I still "know" some.  LC?

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## Terminal Lance

> We could probably also dig up some female marines if we had to.  I still "know" some.  LC?


Ugh.  Female marines?   :Frown: 

I guess if we had to.  Gonzales is ok and she'd kill two minorities with one stone.

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TheTemporaryBG (08-29-2013)

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## TheTemporaryBG

> Ugh.  Female marines?  
> 
> I guess if we had to.  Gonzales is ok and she'd kill two minorities with one stone.


We can nab Rina's 3-D camera.

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## Matt

> We could probably also dig up some female marines if we had to.  I still "know" some.  LC?


You have those? Thought they we're just men with hair buns  :Thinking:

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## TheTemporaryBG

> You have those? Thought they we're just men with hair buns


_bark bark bark_

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## 007

> You have those? Thought they we're just men with hair buns


How about them loser EMTs who assault people in their own homes because they are making important phone calls?
Jumped up arrogant losers!!
kind of like a mall cop with a minor skill!!
you don't know who they are calling.
Do the job you are paid to do or fuck off.
Plenty of low skilled workers willing to work for $20. An hour.
We call them losers. We pity their pathetic existence.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> How about them loser EMTs who assault people in their own homes because they are making important phone calls?
> Jumped up arrogant losers!!
> kind of like a mall cop with a minor skill!!
> you don't know who they are calling.
> Do the job you are paid to do or fuck off.
> Plenty of low skilled workers willing to work for $20. An hour.
> We call them losers. We pity their pathetic existence.


Now, now, Santa, don't get ornery with Chair Force.  He's a good guy.

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## 007

My Brothers a carpenter, should he demand that no phones be used by customers after they call him?
Should he violently remove said phone from their possession and PHYSICALLY HANG IT UP?
OOOOOHHH PHYSICAL.
Tough guy!!
Poor people always want to believe they are better than others!!

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> How about them loser EMTs who assault people in their own homes because they are making important phone calls?
> Jumped up arrogant losers!!
> kind of like a mall cop with a minor skill!!
> you don't know who they are calling.
> Do the job you are paid to do or fuck off.
> Plenty of low skilled workers willing to work for $20. An hour.
> We call them losers. We pity their pathetic existence.


You are very strange.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> My Brothers a carpenter, should he demand that no phones be used by customers after they call him?
> Should he violently remove said phone from their possession and PHYSICALLY HANG IT UP?
> OOOOOHHH PHYSICAL.
> Tough guy!!
> Poor people always want to believe they are better than others!!


I'm better than others.  At least, that's what all the girls say in the morning.

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## 007

> Now, now, Santa, don't get ornery with Chair Force.  He's a good guy.


Jumped up wannabe in a uniform.
if he acts as he describes he is not a good guy.
He takes advantage of other people difficulties to polish his fragile ego.

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Jumped up wannabe in a uniform.
> if he acts as he describes he is not a good guy.
> He takes advantage of other people difficulties to polish his fragile ego.


You got all that from one forum post?

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## 007

> You are very strange.


Because I dislike small people who need to act like mini hitlers whilst doing their low paid jobs?
It would be stranger to tolerate such abuse from people you are paying to do a job!!

This EMT would hold a child ransom until its parent groveled to him and you call me strange?

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> This EMT would hold a child ransom until its parent groveled to him and you call me strange?




Pretty sure that's not even remotely true. Where did you even get that from his posts?

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TheTemporaryBG (08-30-2013)

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## 007

> You got all that from one forum post?


Several.
If an EMT was in your home and refused to provide the ALS you called him to, until you "showed him some respect" would you consider that acceptable?
You are paying him, he should STFU and do the job you are paying him to do.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> Pretty sure that's not even remotely true. Where did you even get that from his posts?



roflmao

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## 007

> Pretty sure that's not even remotely true. Where did you even get that from his posts?


That whole they better do as I say and show me some respect or I won't do my job thing!!
Next logical step!

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> roflmao


Supernatural is an awesome show to pull gifs/pics from. Truth.



...of course, it's an awesome show in general  :Tongue:

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## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Several.
> If an EMT was in your home and refused to provide the ALS you called him to, until you "showed him some respect" would you consider that acceptable?
> You are paying him, he should STFU and do the job you are paying him to do.


Actually, pretty sure my insurance pays him. And even then, if he's working for a company, it's the company that pays him and your insurance pays his company.

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## TheTemporaryBG

@Matthews an EMT and even tho I think Santa's kidding, I can see where in emergency situations he wants to control the situation and environment he's in and you can't do that with people on a cell phone.  Taking someone's cell phone and hanging up could save lives and give a quicker response time.  This is different than a cop punching you in a gut.

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Max Rockatansky (08-30-2013),Sinestro/Green Arrow (08-30-2013)

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## Max Rockatansky

> That whole they better do as I say and show me some respect or I won't do my job thing!!
> Next logical step!


Let me guess -  You don't show anyone respect and are mystified why no one respects you.   Am I close?

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## 007

> Actually, pretty sure my insurance pays him. And even then, if he's working for a company, it's the company that pays him and your insurance pays his company.


Who pays for your insurance?
you, either directly or indirectly.
Now if your insurance has a grovel to a jumped up authoritarian EMT with masculinity issues clause, that's different.
When you call an EMT, you are still the customer.
When you call the police, same thing.
As the song says " if you tolerate this, then your children will be next"!!

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## Max Rockatansky

> @Matthews an EMT and even tho I think Santa's kidding, I can see where in emergency situations he wants to control the situation and environment he's in and you can't do that with people on a cell phone.  Taking someone's cell phone and hanging up could save lives and give a quicker response time.  This is different than a cop punching you in a gut.


Agreed it's a difference.

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## Max Rockatansky

> Who pays for your insurance?
> you, either directly or indirectly.
> Now if your insurance has a grovel to a jumped up authoritarian EMT with masculinity issues clause, that's different.
> When you call an EMT, you are still the customer.
> When you call the police, same thing.
> As the song says " if you tolerate this, then your children will be next"!!


Dude, I suspect that attitude comes from a combination of parents who read too much Dr. Spock and from watching too many Burger King commercials. 

You can't have it "your way" in every circumstance and, no, you are not a customer to emergency medical personnel nor police.  You're either a victim or a perpetrator.

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TheTemporaryBG (08-30-2013)

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## 007

> @Matthews an EMT and even tho I think Santa's kidding, I can see where in emergency situations he wants to control the situation and environment he's in and you can't do that with people on a cell phone.  Taking someone's cell phone and hanging up could save lives and give a quicker response time.  This is different than a cop punching you in a gut.


Taking a cell phone and forcibly hanging it up has nothing to do with an EMTs job.
What if the person was on the phone collecting relevant details about the patients medical history?
Or will you again ignore that inconvenient possibility?
What if the call was to a school informing them that a parent couldn't meet a child at the bus stop?
kid gets kidnapped walking home because the ca didn't get through?
EMT should do his job, nothing more, no insisting that people respect him.
Simple really.
Not simple enough for jumped up power happy EMTs who think they can act like stormtroopers.
Did I read somewhere that most EMTs failed the police exam........

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## 007

> Let me guess -  You don't show anyone respect and are mystified why no one respects you.   Am I close?


I show respect to those who earn it, or show it.
If a cop pulls me over and demands I put out a cigarette( I know, I don't smoke) I would ask him why.
if he offers a logical reason for the demand I will gladly comply( eg a gasoline tanker has crashed just round the corner), if he responds " because I said so"! I'm refusing.
I will possibly go to jail, pay bail, have the charges dropped, then sue the plod.

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## TheTemporaryBG

> Taking a cell phone and forcibly hanging it up has nothing to do with an EMTs job.


Sure it does.  People in emergency situations don't think clearly especially if that situation is involving someone they love.  I've been private security for someone who is positively brilliant.  Brilliant.  When she thought her father was having a heart attack I couldn't even get her parent's address out of her.




> What if the person was on the phone collecting relevant details about the patients medical history?


I'm sure Matthew would ascertain that and take the phone to get it himself.




> Or will you again ignore that inconvenient possibility?


Nope, but from what I know of Chair Force he doesn't seem like a dick to just hang up without seeing what's up.




> What if the call was to a school informing them that a parent couldn't meet a child at the bus stop?
> kid gets kidnapped walking home because the ca didn't get through?


They usually ask those questions.




> EMT should do his job, nothing more, no insisting that people respect him.
> Simple really.
> Not simple enough for jumped up power happy EMTs who think they can act like stormtroopers.
> Did I read somewhere that most EMTs failed the police exam........


Yeh, I don't think that sounds like our Chair Force.  He's a good guy.

----------

Matt (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

> Dude, I suspect that attitude comes from a combination of parents who read too much Dr. Spock and from watching too many Burger King commercials. 
> 
> You can't have it "your way" in every circumstance and, no, you are not a customer to emergency medical personnel nor police.  You're either a victim or a perpetrator.


Well yes you can.
Particularly when you are paying a private ambulance company to attend an incident or emergency.
The cost of having an EMT show up is $2000!!
If I'm paying you $2000 I don't have to be ordered around, assaulted and spoken to like an animal.
its a matter of respect.
Disrespect me in my home when I'm putting money in your pocket?
Its not looking good for you!

----------


## 007

> Sure it does.  People in emergency situations don't think clearly especially if that situation is involving someone they love.  I've been private security for someone who is positively brilliant.  Brilliant.  When she thought her father was having a heart attack I couldn't even get her parent's address out of her.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure Matthew would ascertain that and take the phone to get it himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, but from what I know of Chair Force he doesn't seem like a dick to just hang up without seeing what's up.
> ...


he grabbed a customers phone and physically hung it up!
said nothing about checking who the call was to, or what it was about.
If you can't start a line or do CPR because someone's on a phone nearby you should reconsider your career.
Mall cop perhaps?
Fast food op?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I show respect to those who earn it, or show it.
> If a cop pulls me over and demands I put out a cigarette( I know, I don't smoke) I would ask him why.
> if he offers a logical reason for the demand I will gladly comply( eg a gasoline tanker has crashed just round the corner), if he responds " because I said so"! I'm refusing.
> I will possibly go to jail, pay bail, have the charges dropped, then sue the plod.


Go ahead and sue.   If most people are like me, they won't give a shit you spent a few days in jail by turning a routine traffic stop because you were speeding into a major confrontation because of insecurity issues.

I've been stopped several times; usually for being 5-10MPH fast.  I pull over, turn off the motor, put the keys on the dash, sunglasses off, have my ID, registration and insurance ready with hands on the wheel and in sight at all times.  Cops have been shot over routine traffic stops and they don't know me from Adam.  I'm polite and respectful.  I'm also sincere in my apology for not paying better attention.  5 times out of the last 6 (over a decade), they let me go.   

You can go to jail and stay there for all I care.  I humble recommend reading some strategy books while there.  Something along the lines of "pick and choose your battles" would be a good start.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> he grabbed a customers phone and physically hung it up!
> said nothing about checking who the call was to, or what it was about.
> If you can't start a line or do CPR because someone's on a phone nearby you should reconsider your career.
> Mall cop perhaps?
> Fast food op?


Or maybe he shut off the phone to ask them questions before he started down the wrong path?

----------

Matt (08-30-2013)

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> If you can't start a line or do CPR because someone's on a phone nearby you should reconsider your career.
> Mall cop perhaps?
> Fast food op?


An EMT hung up a phone to a person he was giving CPR to?  Good call.  Some people are too stupid to live.

This is the problem of arguing hypothetical situations with an argumentative person.

----------

TheTemporaryBG (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

> Go ahead and sue.   If most people are like me, they won't give a shit you spent a few days in jail by turning a routine traffic stop because you were speeding into a major confrontation because of insecurity issues.
> 
> I've been stopped several times; usually for being 5-10MPH fast.  I pull over, turn off the motor, put the keys on the dash, sunglasses off, have my ID, registration and insurance ready with hands on the wheel and in sight at all times.  Cops have been shot over routine traffic stops and they don't know me from Adam.  I'm polite and respectful.  I'm also sincere in my apology for not paying better attention.  5 times out of the last 6 (over a decade), they let me go.   
> 
> You can go to jail and stay there for all I care.  I humble recommend reading some strategy books while there.  Something along the lines of "pick and choose your battles" would be a good start.


I do all those same things.
However, what possible reason can a cop have for demanding that a cigarette be extinguished?
No law exists saying you must do everything a cop demands.
You allow this kind of abuse of position, it will grow, it has grown.
One day a cop will pull over your wife, mother, Daughter and demand a blow job.
will you care if they spend a few days in jail for escalating a minor traffic stop?

nb I'd make bail in mins.

MY good friend is the best attorney in eastern MA!

----------


## 007

> An EMT hung up a phone to a person he was giving CPR to?  Good call.  Some people are too stupid to live.
> 
> This is the problem of arguing hypothetical situations with an argumentative person.


where did I say that?
oh that's right, nowhere, you fool.

----------


## 007

> Or maybe he shut off the phone to ask them questions before he started down the wrong path?


Shouldn't an EMT be able to see for himself?
he already said it was because he wanted respect!!!!
that was the given reason, nothing more.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> where did I say that?
> oh that's right, nowhere, you fool.


Your anger issues are funny. How old are you?  Teens?  Early 20s?  Are you in college?  You seem awfully stressed out.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I do all those same things.
> However, what possible reason can a cop have for demanding that a cigarette be extinguished?


You claim you don't smoke then bitch about a hypothetical cop hypothetically telling you to extinguish your hypothetical cigarette.  Would it really be a surprise that, regardless of my answer, you wouldn't be satisfied? 

There's a lot more going on here than your trumped up anger at hypothetical police.  What is it?  Tell the truth, please.

----------

Micketto (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

> Your anger issues are funny. How old are you?  Teens?  Early 20s?  Are you in college?  You seem awfully stressed out.


43, retired.
no stress.
Just the moral high ground.
increasingly we are surrendering our basic freedoms and when this is pointed out the statists attack like snarling pit bulls.

----------


## 007

> You claim you don't smoke then bitch about a hypothetical cop hypothetically telling you to extinguish your hypothetical cigarette.  Would it really be a surprise that, regardless of my answer, you wouldn't be satisfied? 
> 
> There's a lot more going on here than your trumped up anger at hypothetical police.  What is it?  Tell the truth, please.


Freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
How you statists are allowing and encouraging the erosion of them.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> 43, retired.
> no stress.
> Just the moral high ground.
> increasingly we are surrendering our basic freedoms and when this is pointed out the statists attack like snarling pit bulls.


 You can claim not to being stressed, but your anger indicates otherwise.

Disagreed that becoming highly upset about an imaginary cop telling you to put out your imaginary cigarette passes for "the moral high ground". 




> Freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
> How you statists are allowing and encouraging the erosion of them.


"you statists".  More groundless name calling.  You bust the speed limit and get pissy because a cop tells you to put out your imaginary cigarette.  I agree you should and now I'm a "statist"?  That's more muddled thinking on your part, Mr. Bond, and another reason why I think there is more going on with you than a pleasant, early and happy retirement.

----------


## 007

> You can claim not to being stressed, but your anger indicates otherwise.
> 
> Disagreed that becoming highly upset about an imaginary cop telling you to put out your imaginary cigarette passes for "the moral high ground". 
> 
> 
> 
> "you statists".  More groundless name calling.  You bust the speed limit and get pissy because a cop tells you to put out your imaginary cigarette.  I agree you should and now I'm a "statist"?  That's more muddled thinking on your part, Mr. Bond, and another reason why I think there is more going on with you than a pleasant, early and happy retirement.


I have not been pulled over for a decade.
Many people however have, you see, this is not about me, it's about the general erosion of our freedoms and the looming police state.
As for name calling, were you not the one who called me argumentative and too stupid to live?
No anger here, perhaps you are projecting?

----------


## 007

Unmuddle my thinking, what reason does a cop have for ordering a motorist to put out a cigarette or hang up a phone during a routine stop?
What logical reason?

----------


## Perianne

> How about them loser EMTs who assault people in their own homes because they are making important phone calls?
> Jumped up arrogant losers!!
> kind of like a mall cop with a minor skill!!


EMT is not a minor skill.  They save lives.  They would even save yours, if necessary.  I have great respect for EMTs.

----------

Matt (08-30-2013),Max Rockatansky (08-30-2013),TheTemporaryBG (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

> EMT is not a minor skill.  They save lives.  They would even save yours, if necessary.  I have great respect for EMTs.


As do I.
dosent make it ok for them to goose step around people's homes violently snatching phones and hanging up because they like to bully people into respecting them.

If I need medical help, I would expect a trained professional to attend.
A paramedic.
An EMT can take my blood pressure and pass the paramedic the needed equipment!

----------


## Perianne

> As do I.
> dosent make it ok for them to goose step around people's homes violently snatching phones and hanging up because they like to bully people into respecting them.
> 
> If I need medical help, I would expect a trained professional to attend.
> A paramedic.
> An EMT can take my blood pressure and pass the paramedic the needed equipment!


Yesterday, a coworker and I were discussing people being on cellphones while we were trying to help them.  It is a common annoyance in the medical field.

----------

Matt (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

Now who will unmuddle my thinking.
What logical reason has a cop to demand a motorist puts out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?

----------


## 007

> Yesterday, a coworker and I were discussing people being on cellphones while we were trying to help them.  It is a common annoyance in the medical field.


Back in the day, I used to often discuss how customers would ask a question, then interrupt with another question before I had answered.
Its a common annoyance for sommeliers in the wine industry.

If your customers annoy you, find another job.
My customers annoyed me, so I sold up.
I didn't violently assault them or snatch their property from their hands.
I guess I had too much RESPECT for the people who paid my bills.

----------

BleedingHeadKen (08-30-2013)

----------


## 007

Now, please unmuddle my thinking, what logical reason has a cop to demand a motorist extinguish a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?

----------


## Perianne

> Now, please unmuddle my thinking, what logical reason has a cop to demand a motorist extinguish a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?


_
When you are detained, they have limited control over your actions.  They could, in fact, have ordered you to EXIT the car.

The officer is not legally required to subject himself to the  carcinogens of your cigarette smoke, nor is he or she required to allow  you the possibility of using the cigarette as a weapon or distraction  device.  If directed to put it out or put it down, you can either  acquiesce, or you can push the issue and risk arrest.  It is your call.

In short, yes, they can order you to put out a cigarette and if you  refuse, you may go to jail.  They can also order you to take your hands  out of your pockets, put them IN a pocket, they can order you in or out  of a car, they can have you stand or sit down, etc.  There are many  things that the officer can have you do when you are detained - within  reason, of course. 				_

http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102009

----------


## 007

> _
> When you are detained, they have limited control over your actions.  They could, in fact, have ordered you to EXIT the car.
> 
> The officer is not legally required to subject himself to the  carcinogens of your cigarette smoke, nor is he or she required to allow  you the possibility of using the cigarette as a weapon or distraction  device.  If directed to put it out or put it down, you can either  acquiesce, or you can push the issue and risk arrest.  It is your call.
> 
> In short, yes, they can order you to put out a cigarette and if you  refuse, you may go to jail.  They can also order you to take your hands  out of your pockets, put them IN a pocket, they can order you in or out  of a car, they can have you stand or sit down, etc.  There are many  things that the officer can have you do when you are detained - within  reason, of course.                _ 
> 
> http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102009


The inside of YOUR car is YOUR private property, correct?
If you choose to smoke in YOUR car the cop has no say.
Yes he can order you to put it out, and you can ask for a reason why.
A cop can demand much and arrest you for non compliance.
Just because, is not a logical reason.
Because he can IS THE PROBLEM!!
Do you forget that respect is a two way street?
What happens when a cop pulls over your daughter and demands she performs a sex act on him?
If she refuses to comply, should she be arrested?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Unmuddle my thinking, what reason does a cop have for ordering a motorist to put out a cigarette or hang up a phone during a routine stop?
> What logical reason?


What's in it for me?  In fact, I think it's a lot better for you to meditate on that very question while sitting in your cell.  When you are arraigned, given you are as strongly moral as you claim, you should tell the Judge off too.  Stand on your "high ground" (I'd call it the 007 mole hill, but that's me) and after a few weeks in jail and several thousand dollars in fines for contempt of court, please tell everyone the logical reason of why you think you are correct.

BTW, you'd still have to pay your speeding ticket or whatever traffic violation got you stopped in the first place.

----------


## 007

For starters it would likely be a matter of minutes before bail was set.
It is not a felony to refuse to put out a cigarette that you are smoking legally in your own private property.
you can offer no reason other than a cops word is law.
so do you tell your wife to suck a cops dick during a traffic stop, if he orders her to?
Your Daughter?
Your Mother?
Your support for a police state is noted.

----------


## 007

So no logical reason. 
Just you have to do as a cop says.
Some people are happy to have no rights or freedoms.
Those Sheeple are called Statists.

----------


## Max Rockatansky

Nice strawman.  You rant about imaginary cigarettes and now drag up sucking dick and police states.

Really, why did you retire early?  Just rich or are you on some kind of medical disability?

----------


## 007

> Nice strawman.  You rant about imaginary cigarettes and now drag up sucking dick and police states.
> 
> Really, why did you retire early?  Just rich or are you on some kind of medical disability?


i retired early because I could.
it is not a strawman, it is the logical end to the increasing willingness of people to accept police oppression.
It starts small and grows.

----------


## Micketto

Eh, of course there are cops who misbehave, but why is it so hard to shut up and listen to them instead of fighting them?

This guy should be fired... but only for the punch.

If she's so "pregnant"... as opposed to just fat... then she should shut up and do what the cop says.

You know how many times these guys hear "I'm pregnant" when simply trying to control someone who won't cooperate ?

Show the baby some respect and don't force a cop to restrain you.

And ffs... pull your pants up.

----------


## Micketto

> Your paid by the people who call you, right?


The people who constantly vote against any pay raise, or tax increases to add cops?
Those people ?







> the customer is always right, your in a customers home, doing the job he pays you to do.
> What right have you to make such demands of those who employ you?
> It's disrespectfull.


Dude... then why do we have cops?  If every taxpaying citizen is right ?
I think you just found a way to lower taxes !  Fire them all... we don't need them.



There is no way I would have the patience to walk into a situation like that, listen to the whiny yelling nonstop, without hitting someone.

I didn't read the story, but in a response I saw mention that this loudmouth, uncooperative btch was aiming pepper spray at the cop?!
If true... I respect him for waiting as long as he did to put her down.

----------


## Micketto

> My Brothers a carpenter, should he demand that no phones be used by customers after they call him?
> Should he violently remove said phone from their possession and PHYSICALLY HANG IT UP?
> OOOOOHHH PHYSICAL.
> Tough guy!!
> Poor people always want to believe they are better than others!!


When he has questions about things they need done does he tell them he'd like to talk to them so his hours don't add up?
Or does he sit there like a btch waiting and hoping they get off the phone at some point in the day?

----------


## Micketto

> You got all that from one forum post?


He's Santa (he even knows when you're sleeping!!).

----------


## Micketto

> Your anger issues are funny. How old are you?  Teens?  Early 20s?  Are you in college?  You seem awfully stressed out.


Dude, I'm 25 and even I can't understand the rationale behind this guy's anger issues and name calling.

Don't blame youth... we aren't all children  :Wink:

----------

Max Rockatansky (08-30-2013)

----------


## Micketto

> You claim you don't smoke then bitch about a hypothetical cop hypothetically telling you to extinguish your hypothetical cigarette.  Would it really be a surprise that, regardless of my answer, you wouldn't be satisfied?


Lol... no kiddin'

Pegged it.

----------


## Micketto

> As do I.
> dosent make it ok for them to goose step around people's homes violently snatching phones and hanging up because they like to bully people into respecting them.
> 
> If I need medical help, I would expect a trained professional to attend.
> A paramedic.
> An EMT can take my blood pressure and pass the paramedic the needed equipment!


A "Basic EMT" is qualified to do only so much, and often the first responders.
If you think you need an "Advanced EMT" then make sure you say so in the call.

Write down everything you have wrong with you and I'm sure you can then stay on your phone chatting with friends.

----------


## Micketto

> Now who will unmuddle my thinking.
> What logical reason has a cop to demand a motorist puts out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?


To keep them (people like you who have no respect for them) from blowing second hand smoke in their faces.

Those are coincidentally the same people who throw their cig butts on the roads when they're done with them.

----------


## 007

> To keep them (people like you who have no respect for them) from blowing second hand smoke in their faces.
> 
> Those are coincidentally the same people who throw their cig butts on the roads when they're done with them.


Ah so the reason is second hand smoke?
so do police arrest pedestrians for smoking?
or construction workers on sites with a police detail?
It's still second hand smoke, right?
Where did I say I had no respect for cops?
Thats right, I didn't say that at all, you made it up.
still no logical reason as to why?
you clearly subscribe to totalitarian ideas.

----------


## 007

> A "Basic EMT" is qualified to do only so much, and often the first responders.
> If you think you need an "Advanced EMT" then make sure you say so in the call.
> 
> Write down everything you have wrong with you and I'm sure you can then stay on your phone chatting with friends.


Or if my next door neighbor had a heart attack and I called the EMTs first, then his wife to get relevant info for the EMT, who on a crazy power trip snatched my phone and cut short the call.
I'm walking, the death is on his hands.
love your strawman arguments about patients using phones.
But even if it is, the EMT has no right to take the phone or disconnect a call.

Perhaps you can show me the law that enables an EMT to order people off the phone?

----------


## 007

> Lol... no kiddin'
> 
> Pegged it.


Not the point.
what logical and lawfull reason has a cop to order a person to end a phone call during a routine traffic stop?

----------


## Micketto

> Ah so the reason is second hand smoke?
> so do police arrest pedestrians for smoking?
> or construction workers on sites with a police detail?


They aren't pulled over for smoking.

Your questions are stupid.

Not sure why you would start down some other irrelevant argument trail.

----------


## Micketto

> Or if my next door neighbor had a heart attack and I called the EMTs first, then his wife to get relevant info for the EMT, who on a crazy power trip snatched my phone and cut short the call.
> I'm walking, the death is on his hands.
> love your strawman arguments about patients using phones.
> But even if it is, the EMT has no right to take the phone or disconnect a call.
> 
> Perhaps you can show me the law that enables an EMT to order people off the phone?


What's the law have to do with it?
Bank tellers have no legal right to tell you to get off your phone either.... but they too are within their rights to refuse service until you're done.

You should work on creating a valid argument, and then trying your hardest to stick to it... with less "moving the goalposts".

----------


## Micketto

> Not the point.


Actually it is.  He pegged you.

----------


## 007

> They aren't pulled over for smoking.
> 
> Your questions are stupid.
> 
> Not sure why you would start down some other irrelevant argument trail.


A motorist is pulled over for smoking?
which state has laws against smoking and driving?

----------


## 007

> What's the law have to do with it?
> Bank tellers have no legal right to tell you to get off your phone either.... but they too are within their rights to refuse service until you're done.
> 
> You should work on creating a valid argument, and then trying your hardest to stick to it... with less "moving the goalposts".


I've never moved a goalpost.
still waiting for a logical reason for a cop to demand a motorist put out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop.
all your squirming wont work, nor will your infantile ad Homs.

if a bank teller refused service, I'd close my account.
If some retard EMT would refuse to treat my loved ones because I was on the phone to my loved ones primary care physician. 
I would see him out of a job.
If he grabbed my phone I would treat him the same as any other phone snatching theif.

----------


## Micketto

> A motorist is pulled over for smoking?


You got that from:




> They aren't pulled over for smoking.


Wow.

You argue anything... even if you have to make up what other people say.



Learn to fkn read.

----------


## 007

> Actually it is.  He pegged you.


No, he applied a strawman argument.
just because I don't smoke does not make it ok in my mind for police to abuse their position.

----------


## 007

> You got that from:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> You argue anything... even if you have to make up what other people say.
> 
> 
> ...


I asked why police don't arrest pedestrians for smoking because his justification for cops demanding motorists put out cigarettes during traffic stops was secondhand smoke.
his response was pedestrians were not pulled over for smoking.
my response was to ask if motorists were 
Nice cherry picking and editing my dishonest statist type!

----------


## 007

Just to show your dishonesty.

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...l=1#post125158

learn to stop lying, you will get trapped in your lies.

----------


## Micketto

> I asked why police don't arrest pedestrians for smoking because his justification for cops demanding motorists put out cigarettes during traffic stops was secondhand smoke.


Asking a motorist to put out a cig has no equivalence to arresting someone for smoking.
Remember, I said work on putting together a "valid" argument first.



Anyway,  I said the motorist wasn't pulled over for smoking, and THEN you said: _"A motorist is pulled over for smoking?"_ 

Seems straightforward to me.... and probably to most 3rd graders.
Twist it anyway you want.

As you argue with yourself, over hypothetical bullsht.

----------


## 007

> Ah so the reason is second hand smoke?
> so do police arrest pedestrians for smoking?
> or construction workers on sites with a police detail?
> It's still second hand smoke, right?
> Where did I say I had no respect for cops?
> Thats right, I didn't say that at all, you made it up.
> still no logical reason as to why?
> you clearly subscribe to totalitarian ideas.


Just to clarify further, he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"THEY^^^^^^^^( the people I allude to in the above post) do not get pulled over for smoking.
I asked if motorists do.

learn to fucking read!
as you would say.

----------


## 007

> Asking a motorist to put out a cig has no equivalence to arresting someone for smoking.
> Remember, I said work on putting together a "valid" argument first.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway,  I said the motorist wasn't pulled over for smoking, and THEN you said: _"A motorist is pulled over for smoking?"_ 
> 
> Seems straightforward to me.... and probably to most 3rd graders.
> Twist it anyway you want.
> ...


The only question was what logical reason did a cop have for demanding a motorist puts out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?
One response was "second hand smoke"!
In that case said I, " why do they not demand pedestrians put out cigarettes, or construction workers on a job site with a police detail"?
the response to that question was;-
THEY( pedestrians and construction workers on job sites with a police detail) don't get pulled over for smoking.

To which sez I;-
Do motorists get pulled over for smoking.
At that point you began with your dishonest attacks, lies, cherry picking, editing and blatant lies.
 This shows one thing.
you cannot present a logical argument so resort to dishonesty and abuse.
possibly due to some mental issue you have!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> I've never moved a goalpost.
> still waiting for a logical reason for a cop to demand a motorist put out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop.
> all your


Your favorite methods are to devolve into name-calling and straw man arguments.  Do you recall your comments about statists, dick sucking and complete submission to a police state? 

If you commit a crime, even a minor one such as speeding or running a red light and police man has an obligation to stop you and investigate.  He or she is empowered by law to obtain your full cooperation.  If this means you have to stop talking to your doctor about a renewing your Viagra prescription, so be it.

It's not because of a police state.  It's because the majority of citizens don't want some self-righteous asshole endangering them or their families so they give police restricted power to protect them.

----------


## 007

> Your favorite methods are to devolve into name-calling and straw man arguments.  Do you recall your comments about statists, dick sucking and complete submission to a police state? 
> 
> If you commit a crime, even a minor one such as speeding or running a red light and police man has an obligation to stop you and investigate.  He or she is empowered by law to obtain your full cooperation.  If this means you have to stop talking to your doctor about a renewing your Viagra prescription, so be it.
> 
> It's not because of a police state.  It's because the majority of citizens don't want some self-righteous asshole endangering them or their families so they give police restricted power to protect them.


Smoking endangers them?
and it is not a strawman to question where the line is?
we already have in the USA a massive problem with police officers abusing their position.
Give me one logical reason for a cop to demand that a motorist puts out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop.
or demand that I hang up on a phone call.
Not all traffic stops are for moving violations.

My brother was pulled over on US93 south of Boston because a state trooper smelled booze on his breath, as he drove past at 60mph.
of course there was no smell of booze.
the cop figured it was suspicious that a commercial van was driving out of the city at 10pm, must have stopped for beers on the way home!!
cops make mistakes, overstep the bounds of their job, get some gratification from using their badge to bully citizens.
for that, they should be held accountable. 
Many use the badge as a tool to enable rape.
check the Licence, reg and insurance, write the ticket and fuck off.
how does the motorist smoking have any impact?

----------


## Micketto

> The only question was what logical reason did a cop have for demanding a motorist puts out a cigarette during a routine traffic stop?
> One response was "second hand smoke"!
> In that case said I, " *why do they not demand pedestrians put out cigarettes*, or construction workers on a job site with a police detail"?
> the response to that question was;-
> THEY( pedestrians and construction workers on job sites with a police detail) don't get pulled over for smoking.


And there you go lying....  again.

You didn't ask why they don't _"demand"_ pedestrians to put out their cigarettes, you asked why they don't _"arrest"_ them.

Which is why I said "They don't pull them (the motorists) over for smoking".
So why would they go so far as to _arrest_ a civilian for smoking?

Maybe your own comments are clearer to you now ?

And maybe now you get the goalpost comment.


I have no idea what you are arguing about.
And it's quite clear you don't either.

----------


## 007

> And there you go lying....  again.
> 
> You didn't ask why they don't _"demand"_ pedestrians to put out their cigarettes, you asked why they don't _"arrest"_ them.
> 
> Which is why I said "They don't pull them (the motorists) over for smoking".
> So why would they go so far as to _arrest_ a civilian for smoking?
> ""8
> Maybe your own comments are clearer to you now ?
> 
> ...


They demand motorists put out cigarettes and arrest them if they refuse, so why not others, pedestrians and the like, it's still second hand smoke, right?
Try putting forward a valid, viable point rather than avoiding the subject by cherry picking and selective editing.
Try being, you know, honest!!

----------


## 007

> And there you go lying....  again.
> 
> You didn't ask why they don't _"demand"_ pedestrians to put out their cigarettes, you asked why they don't _"arrest"_ them.
> 
> Which is why I said "They don't pull them (the motorists) over for smoking".
> So why would they go so far as to _arrest_ a civilian for smoking?
> 
> Maybe your own comments are clearer to you now ?
> 
> ...


They don't pull motorists over for smoking, correct.
but they arrest motorists for smoking during a routine traffic stop, what logical reason can a cop have for demanding, under threat of arrest, that a motorist puts out a smoke?
back to the same question, the one you refuse to answer.

----------


## Micketto

> They demand motorists put out cigarettes and arrest them if they refuse, so why not others, pedestrians and the like, it's still second hand smoke, right?
> Try putting forward a valid, viable point rather than avoiding the subject by cherry picking and selective editing.
> Try being, you know, honest!!


You said "arrest".... then argued about "demand".

Goalpost..... officially moved.

Make up your mind, then enjoy arguing with yourself.

All..
weekend..
long...

----------


## 007

> You said "arrest".... then argued about "demand".
> 
> Goalpost..... officially moved.
> 
> Make up your mind, then enjoy arguing with yourself.
> 
> All..
> weekend..
> long...


I'm asking for one answer to one question, you are arguing semantics, cherry picking and editing.
you have no answers.
so you agree with totalitarianism.

----------


## Belazure

Pepper spray _is_ a deadly weapon and can cause permanent damage such as blindness - just because she has a vagina in between her legs doesn't make her any less of a threat, or somehow make the circumstances any different than if she had a different set of genitalia. If it had been a man - who weighed exactly the same and had the exact same physical prowess - I don't think there's be nearly as much outrage - if any at all - in fact some people would probably upload it to Youtube and laugh at the bozo

I bet there's some dude somewhere who literally wouldn't defend himself if a woman had the barrel of a shotgun down his throat just because he's afraid of "hitting a woman".

Hint, "women" don't deserve anything. Knights didn't slay dragons for "women" - they slayed them for _ladies_.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

The job of the police force was not in the beginning to keep themselves safe, first, but to keep the citizens safe.  This has changed to where their first priority is to keep themselves safe while enforcing the law.

The situation could have been handled without punching someone.  I think anyone from @Randy Kuhlman to @Gemini could tell you this.  We policed people who open carried AK-47s in the streets and I didn't punch a single person, even the assholes throwing rocks at me.  My priority wasn't my own life but saving the lives of the Iraqis and my fellow marines.

That's when things turned around in Iraq when we stopped being aggressors and started being their helpers.

----------

President Peanut (09-08-2013)

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

> Pepper spray _is_ a deadly weapon and can cause permanent damage such as blindness - just because she has a vagina in between her legs doesn't make her any less of a threat, or somehow make the circumstances any different than if she had a different set of genitalia. If it had been a man - who weighed exactly the same and had the exact same physical prowess - I don't think there's be nearly as much outrage - if any at all - in fact some people would probably upload it to Youtube and laugh at the bozo
> 
> I bet there's some dude somewhere who literally wouldn't defend himself if a woman had the barrel of a shotgun down his throat just because he's afraid of "hitting a woman".


And slamming her head into a railing, and into concrete, and punching here has *got* to be safer than pepper spray. He should have punched her stomach for good measure; aborted that little future criminal early. Then the cop lovers can laugh about that.




> Hint, "women" don't deserve anything. Knights didn't slay dragons for "women" - they slayed them for _ladies_.


Cops aren't knights, despite the way modern TV depicts them. They are barely more than thugs.

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

The Knights in Blue these days don't slay dragons, they slay 107 year olds.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-in-shootout/

It's the new cop thing. If someone angers them, there is no waiting, there is no holding back. They go in, guns blazing.

----------


## The XL

Cops are just glorified gang members with immunity from prosecution.

----------


## Guest

> cops are just glorified gang members with immunity from prosecution.


werk!

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> Cops are just glorified gang members with immunity from prosecution.


Many anti-military Lefties have said the same thing about our men and women in uniform.

----------


## Guest

> Many anti-military Lefties have said the same thing about our men and women in uniform.


And?

----------


## Max Rockatansky

> And?


They looked like idiots for grossly exaggerating.  

OTOH, I've seen some young men who were wannabe gangster types (of all races) and told them "Well, if you want to be in part of something really great and prove yourself a man, you'd join the Marine Corps.  Not everyone can cut it though.  You might not make it".

----------


## The XL

> Many anti-military Lefties have said the same thing about our men and women in uniform.


What's your point?  

The fact is, many cops abuse their power, and they very rarely get prosecuted for it.  You can try and spin it any way you like, it won't change that fact.

----------


## Guest

> They looked like idiots for grossly exaggerating.  
> 
> OTOH, I've seen some young men who were wannabe gangster types (of all races) and told them "Well, if you want to be in part of something really great and prove yourself a man, you'd join the Marine Corps.  Not everyone can cut it though.  You might not make it".


Let's see

 @Ethereal @Aldo Raine @Terminal Lance @Gemini @TheTemporaryBG

if an Iraqi or Afghan threw a rock at you could you shoot them for your own protection?  How about if they were brandishing a gun on the street?

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

I guess I had to log on and support my homegurl.   No, Rina is correct.  We were not allowed, as I have said many times before, to escalate violence.  It is accepted that when we are in the military there will be risk associated with the job.

Cops no longer feel they have to have any level of risk, hence the change in protocols to protect their lives before that of the citizenry.

There, I am now going to attempt to find American football on the telly.

----------

BleedingHeadKen (09-08-2013)

----------


## President Peanut

> The job of the police force was not in the beginning to keep themselves safe, first, but to keep the citizens safe.  This has changed to where their first priority is to keep themselves safe while enforcing the law.
> 
> The situation could have been handled without punching someone.  I think anyone from @Randy Kuhlman to @Gemini could tell you this.  We policed people who open carried AK-47s in the streets and I didn't punch a single person, even the assholes throwing rocks at me.  My priority wasn't my own life but saving the lives of the Iraqis and my fellow marines.
> 
> That's when things turned around in Iraq when we stopped being aggressors and started being their helpers.


Buddy, the police have long since departed from their role as "peace officers". I got into an argument today with some people about the militarization of police. They believe it is necessary for "terrorism". I said, ok, but when I was actually fighting terrorists, I didn't have as heavily armored vehicles, as much body armor, and nearly as high-tech of weaponry. Yeah, they are preparing to "fight terrorists", but are a solely REACTIONARY force, thus defeating that dumbass idea. But that is a tale for another thread.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (09-08-2013)

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

> Buddy, the police have long since departed from their role as "peace officers". I got into an argument today with some people about the militarization of police. They believe it is necessary for "terrorism". I said, ok, but when I was actually fighting terrorists, I didn't have as heavily armored vehicles, as much body armor, and nearly as high-tech of weaponry. Yeah, they are preparing to "fight terrorists", but are a solely REACTIONARY force, thus defeating that dumbass idea. But that is a tale for another thread.


As we see on TV, well armed, super-intelligent, highly-technical, mixed-race terrorists are constantly taking over important American assets and killing hundreds of innocent civilians with super-sophisticated bombs and attack plans. That's the way the sheep think, I believe. They see that crap on TV and believe it's going to happen for real.

----------

President Peanut (09-08-2013)

----------


## Guest

Most cops punching women are men.  Fact.

----------

President Peanut (09-08-2013)

----------


## President Peanut

"I think that is sexist!" said no man ever. @Rina_Dragonborn

----------


## Belazure

> The Knights in Blue these days don't slay dragons, they slay 107 year olds.
> 
> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...n-in-shootout/
> 
> It's the new cop thing. If someone angers them, there is no waiting, there is no holding back. They go in, guns blazing.


The libertarian Tim McVeigh blew up over 100 people in the name of his ideology- what's your point?

More reason for the NSA to wiretap libertarians' phones and conduct unwarranted searches of their homes to make sure they aren't stockpiling bombs and weapons - I assume?

----------


## Belazure

> Cops are just glorified gang members with immunity from prosecution.


No wonder libertaranism is most popular with underage teens

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> The libertarian Tim McVeigh blew up over 100 people in the name of his ideology- what's your point?
> 
> More reason for the NSA to wiretap libertarians' phones and conduct unwarranted searches of their homes to make sure they aren't stockpiling bombs and weapons - I assume?


And this, kids, is what it looks like when you respond to a post with something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post you were responding to.

----------


## Guest

> And this, kids, is what it looks like when you respond to a post with something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post you were responding to.


He can't help it.  He's male.  He's just leading up to a crime of some sort.  You are more statistically prone to them, you know.  It's a big problem for us women.

----------

Sinestro/Green Arrow (09-08-2013)

----------


## Belazure

> He can't help it.  He's male.  He's just leading up to a crime of some sort.  You are more statistically prone to them, you know.  It's a big problem for us women.


Psychologically women are more prone to violence, but are less capable of it due to their physical attributes.

If the physical attributes of men and women were reversed, then there would be way more violence and bloodshed than there is now.

----------


## Belazure

> And this, kids, is what it looks like when you respond to a post with something that has absolutely nothing to do with the original post you were responding to.


Look what libertarians do - they blow up children in the name of their ideology. They're just overglorified terrorists

----------


## Sinestro/Green Arrow

> Look what libertarians do - they blow up children in the name of their ideology. They're just overglorified terrorists


Trolling doesn't suit you, Cricky.

----------


## Gemini

> Let's see
> 
>  @Ethereal @Aldo Raine @Terminal Lance @Gemini @TheTemporaryBG
> 
> if an Iraqi or Afghan threw a rock at you could you shoot them for your own protection?  How about if they were brandishing a gun on the street?


 @Rina_Dragonborn

Rock?  Well, it depends on the size of the rock in question.  If some kid tosses a pebble I am going to have a hard time explaining the 'fear for my life' aspect of my defense.  That being said, if it is a good size I could light the guy up.  For both 'fear for my life' and because if you don't retaliate, a crowd throwing rocks will soon follow - and that is a threat for your life.  You cannot let assault go unpunished or it will continue with those people.

A brutish people require brutish rules to keep them in line.

Which is why the concept of a republic over there is doomed to fail.  A republic requires a virtuous and religious people to function properly.

----------

Perianne (09-09-2013)

----------


## Gemini

> The job of the police force was not in the beginning to keep themselves safe, first, but to keep the citizens safe.  This has changed to where their first priority is to keep themselves safe while enforcing the law.
> 
> The situation could have been handled without punching someone.  I think anyone from @Randy Kuhlman to @Gemini could tell you this.  We policed people who open carried AK-47s in the streets and I didn't punch a single person, even the assholes throwing rocks at me.  My priority wasn't my own life but saving the lives of the Iraqis and my fellow marines.
> 
> That's when things turned around in Iraq when we stopped being aggressors and started being their helpers.


I think you're right.  We got more tips than ever about bomb locations once command figured out that if we quit acting like total pricks on the road, they might hate us less.  Instead of shooting pen flares at everybody that raised a hair and sharing the road helped a great deal.

My biggest beef with the Iraqis is that they don't listen.  Whenever we'd go outside the wire to do some shooting they would wait like vultures for the brass, and always get just a little closer until we had to be mean to them to keep them at a safe distance.  The obnoxious begging for whatever we had on our vehicles like food or water (for some reason they had an obsession with our camel backs...), or batteries etc...  It gets old.  I can see why some treat them like garbage - for the most part they play the role quite well.

At the same time, they don't know any different.  So it is hard to strike a good balance.

----------

TheTemporaryBG (09-09-2013)

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> I think you're right.  We got more tips than ever about bomb locations once command figured out that if we quit acting like total pricks on the road, they might hate us less.  Instead of shooting pen flares at everybody that raised a hair and sharing the road helped a great deal.
> 
> My biggest beef with the Iraqis is that they don't listen.  Whenever we'd go outside the wire to do some shooting they would wait like vultures for the brass, and always get just a little closer until we had to be mean to them to keep them at a safe distance.  The obnoxious begging for whatever we had on our vehicles like food or water (for some reason they had an obsession with our camel backs...), or batteries etc...  It gets old.  I can see why some treat them like garbage - for the most part they play the role quite well.
> 
> At the same time, they don't know any different.  So it is hard to strike a good balance.


I would cringe every time we had to drag gallons of water around.  How they managed to always have cigs and no water I will not understand.  If only I smoked I would have had a lot of friends.

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

> @Rina_Dragonborn
> 
> Rock?  Well, it depends on the size of the rock in question.  If some kid tosses a pebble I am going to have a hard time explaining the 'fear for my life' aspect of my defense.  That being said, if it is a good size I could light the guy up.  For both 'fear for my life' and because if you don't retaliate, a crowd throwing rocks will soon follow - and that is a threat for your life.  You cannot let assault go unpunished or it will continue with those people.
> 
> A brutish people require brutish rules to keep them in line.
> 
> Which is why the concept of a republic over there is doomed to fail.  A republic requires a virtuous and religious people to function properly.


I wonder if we here in the US wouldn't throw rocks at our occupiers? Perhaps we'd be more like sheep, just letting them do whatever they do and hoping someone else will save us.

----------

TheTemporaryBG (09-09-2013)

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

> The libertarian Tim McVeigh blew up over 100 people in the name of his ideology- what's your point?
> 
> More reason for the NSA to wiretap libertarians' phones and conduct unwarranted searches of their homes to make sure they aren't stockpiling bombs and weapons - I assume?


Since libertarianism is based on the non-aggression principle, I'd say McVeigh's actions were far more in line with your totalitarians views. He just wanted a different government, much like you want one that controls every aspect of peoples' lives.

Given how much you relish violence against people you don't like, I think your only problem with McVeigh is that he attacked the state. If his methods had been used against someone, and their children and other innocents, you dislike, you'd be cheering him on. In fact, you probably did, while he was in the military making bombs to blow up foreigners.

----------


## Perianne

> I wonder if we here in the US wouldn't throw rocks at our occupiers? Perhaps we'd be more like sheep, just letting them do whatever they do and hoping someone else will save us.


I think anyone invading our country would have quite a fight on their hands.  I believe there are a lot of brave, good people here who would fight back.   I think I would.

----------


## BleedingHeadKen

> I think anyone invading our country would have quite a fight on their hands.  I believe there are a lot of brave, good people here who would fight back.   I think I would.


Oh, I don't disagree. I was just responding to the contempt in Gemini's message. Occupiers always see themselves as the moral force, and the occupied as brutish, even savage. It's the only way to justify such action.

----------


## Guest

> Oh, I don't disagree. I was just responding to the contempt in Gemini's message. Occupiers always see themselves as the moral force, and the occupied as brutish, even savage. It's the only way to justify such action.


If occupiers treated us the way our government does we'd be outraged and fight back.  When it's our own we just complain.  It's the same way overseas.

----------


## Aldo Raine

> Let's see
> 
>  @Ethereal @Aldo Raine @Terminal Lance @Gemini @TheTemporaryBG
> 
> if an Iraqi or Afghan threw a rock at you could you shoot them for your own protection?  How about if they were brandishing a gun on the street?


Our engagements were limited to "of equal force" after 2006, I think.  Prior to that it was a lot more fun.

----------


## Perianne

> Our engagements were limited to "of equal force" after 2006, I think.  Prior to that it was a lot more fun.


 @Aldo Raine,  where have you been?  I've missed ya!

----------


## The XL

> Most cops punching women are men.  Fact.


And they don't get punished.

I don't even care if hypothetically 99% of cops were good, they are still a dangerous class of people because they can do whatever they want without fear of consequence.

----------


## The XL

> No wonder libertaranism is most popular with underage teens


What I said is correct, no amount of insults or whining will change it.  You frequently see cops get away with crimes that would be surely prosecuted if a normal civilian did it.

----------


## Aldo Raine

> @Aldo Raine,  where have you been?  I've missed ya!



Having a life.  

BG said that the mistress of this establishment wanted me to post. so I'm posting until she remembers why that's probably not a good idea.

----------


## Perianne

> I don't even care if hypothetically 99% of cops were good, they are still a dangerous class of people because they can do whatever they want without fear of consequence.


My new feller is a cop.  He is a good guy.  I suspect he would be dangerous if it came right down to it.

----------


## Perianne

> BG said that the mistress of this establishment wanted me to post.


I didn't say anything to him about you posting.   :Smile:

----------


## Aldo Raine

> My new feller is a cop.  He is a good guy.  I suspect he would be dangerous if it came right down to it.


He's already dangerous.  He's cop.  Wait til you break up and can't go 10 miles over without getting a speeding ticket.

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The XL (09-09-2013)

----------


## St James

ex-son-in-law is a cop. he's an asshole. Even threatened me once. told him to come over and take off the badge...........he never showed up but continues to fuck with the daughter.
Go figure, he raped her and beat her up and she backed off when three other cops threatened her children with "bad things happen sometimes............."
Fort Wayne PD in Indiana

----------


## Aldo Raine

> ex-son-in-law is a cop. he's an asshole. Even threatened me once. told him to come over and take off the badge...........he never showed up but continues to fuck with the daughter.
> Go figure, he raped her and beat her up and she backed off when three other cops threatened her children with "bad things happen sometimes............."
> Fort Wayne PD in Indiana


I can believe it.  Most cops can't cut it in the military because they can't just fire their weapon as much as they want plus people can actually shoot back at them during a war, so they join the police force and bully as many people as they can.

Cops are assholes.  Even my friends who became cops are assholes.  Although a lot of them are asking if we'll hire them because they can't stand their coworkers.

----------


## President Peanut

> ex-son-in-law is a cop. he's an asshole. Even threatened me once. told him to come over and take off the badge...........he never showed up but continues to fuck with the daughter.
> Go figure, he raped her and beat her up and she backed off when three other cops threatened her children with "bad things happen sometimes............."
> Fort Wayne PD in Indiana


Ft. Wayne is a shit hole anyways, moreso now that the gang bangers are leaving Detroit in droves. Another location that hard working Americans can't live in peace without criminals and politicians taking over. Move them out, set up a perimeter, end everything within. Of bulldoze it and make another state park, the same as should be done with the abandoned Detroit.

----------


## Gemini

> Oh, I don't disagree. I was just responding to the contempt in Gemini's message. Occupiers always see themselves as the moral force, and the occupied as brutish, even savage. It's the only way to justify such action.


Don't get me wrong, we should never have  been there.  However it does not change the savage nature of that country in particular.  They are a brutish people.  If you have ever been over there, you'd understand.  All that being said, my particular sampling of the Iraqi people was not the greatest.  Were I there under pretenses of diplomacy and trade, I am sure the reception would be quite different.4

Some people are just barbaric, regardless of whether they are occupied or not.  Iraqis, or at least the sampling of them I got, are a brutish people that require a firm hand when dealing with them.

----------


## Belazure

> And they don't get punished.
> 
> I don't even care if hypothetically 99% of cops were good, they are still a dangerous class of people because they can do whatever they want without fear of consequence.


You guys still can't prove that - cops do tend to get fired when they step out of line.

I've never seen any of the posters here ever use any statistics to show that corruption is more prevalent in law enforcement agencies than it is in other occupations, so that's why I say it's just propaganda.

And what's their solution anyway? Take away cops' guns like they have in New Zealand?

----------

Perianne (09-09-2013)

----------


## Belazure

> Since libertarianism is based on the non-aggression principle, I'd say McVeigh's actions were far more in line with your totalitarians views. He just wanted a different government, much like you want one that controls every aspect of peoples' lives.
> 
> Given how much you relish violence against people you don't like, I think your only problem with McVeigh is that he attacked the state. If his methods had been used against someone, and their children and other innocents, you dislike, you'd be cheering him on. In fact, you probably did, while he was in the military making bombs to blow up foreigners.


He clearly speaks for all libertarians, and proves they're all in some vast conspiracy to stage acts of terrorism against the US - just like some article about a corrupt cop proves that "all law enforcement agencies are in some huge conspiracy with the federal govt to take away your natural rights" apparently

----------


## The XL

> You guys still can't prove that - cops do tend to get fired when they step out of line.
> 
> I've never seen any of the posters here ever use any statistics to show that corruption is more prevalent in law enforcement agencies than it is in other occupations, so that's why I say it's just propaganda.
> 
> And what's their solution anyway? Take away cops' guns like they have in New Zealand?


You shouldn't be fired for killing someone, "negligence" or not, you should be prosecuted.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> You guys still can't prove that - cops do tend to get fired when they step out of line.


They "tend" to get fired.  That sounds very accurate and scientific.  Do you have evidence that they tend to get fired when they step out of line, and while you're at it can you explain why they aren't prosecuted like other criminals instead of just being fired?  Thanks much.




> I've never seen any of the posters here ever use any statistics to show that corruption is more prevalent in law enforcement agencies than it is in other occupations, so that's why I say it's just propaganda.


It has to be more prevalent?  Why and what's the threshold before you care?  Like is it ok to be corrupt as long as everyone else is doing it?




> And what's their solution anyway? Take away cops' guns like they have in New Zealand?


Privately paid security that can be fired if they fuck up rather than unionized public servants that require an act of God to fire.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> You shouldn't be fired for killing someone, "negligence" or not, you should be prosecuted.


Quit talking morality and shit.  He aint got time for that.

----------


## Belazure

> You shouldn't be fired for killing someone, "negligence" or not, you should be prosecuted.


So Zimmerman should have been automatically found guilty? He 'killed' someone right - so that's of course automatic guilt

What about the dad who beat his daughter's attempted rapist to death - why aren't you demanding his 'prosecution'? Someone was killed, therefore it's he's obviously guilty by default unless proven innocent

----------


## Belazure

> They "tend" to get fired.  That sounds very accurate and scientific.  Do you have evidence that they tend to get fired when they step out of line, and while you're at it can you explain why they aren't prosecuted like other criminals instead of just being fired?  Thanks much.
> 
> It has to be more prevalent?  Why and what's the threshold before you care?  Like is it ok to be corrupt as long as everyone else is doing it?


I've heard this before - I've never seen any actual evidence that corruption or turning a blind eye to corruption is an industry wide practice in law enforcement agencies - posting random articles about asshole cops from around the internet isn't evidence that it's a widespread problem - could just be isolated incidents




> Privately paid security that can be fired if they fuck up rather than unionized public servants that require an act of God to fire.


Sure, if your home is being burglarized by gang of armed thugs - be sure to have your credit or debit card ready when you dial 911 to pay the $5,000 fee to send some private security over - tack on another $5,000 and they'll actually bring guns. :lol:

----------


## The XL

> So Zimmerman should have been automatically found guilty? He 'killed' someone right - so that's of course automatic guilt
> 
> What about the dad who beat his daughter's attempted rapist to death - why aren't you demanding his 'prosecution'? Someone was killed, therefore it's he's obviously guilty by default unless proven innocent


Those instances would be self defense, no?

----------


## Belazure

> Those instances would be self defense, no?


The woman in the article had pepper spray which is a deadly weapon - if he used excessive force that's one thing.

Actually I was getting this one confused with a separate thread, about a man 'being set on fire' with a flash grenade.

----------


## TheTemporaryBG

> I've heard this before - I've never seen any actual evidence that corruption or turning a blind eye to corruption is an industry wide practice in law enforcement agencies - posting random articles about asshole cops from around the internet isn't evidence that it's a widespread problem - could just be isolated incidents


Come again.  I asked a question and you're acting like I made a statement.

----------


## President Peanut

> They "tend" to get fired. That sounds very accurate and scientific. Do you have evidence that they tend to get fired when they step out of line, and while you're at it can you explain why they aren't prosecuted like other criminals instead of just being fired? Thanks much.
> 
> 
> 
> It has to be more prevalent? Why and what's the threshold before you care? Like is it ok to be corrupt as long as everyone else is doing it?
> 
> 
> 
> Privately paid security that can be fired if they fuck up rather than unionized public servants that require an act of God to fire.


I agree with you except the last part man. It is more than unions that protect bad cops man, it is the fact they are "merit officers" and to fire them requires the convening of a merit board, typically in the captial (for Indiana at least) and can take six to twelve months to even be scheduled. Then the merits of the officer are debated, what they have done good, what they have done bad before a decision is made. However, all it takes is one--ONE--fellow officer to testify in the officer's defense to make the hearing pointless. Most I have sat in on (about a dozen or so) have resulted in the officer getting unpaid suspension or a letter of reprimand. Only once did I see an officer fired and that was for negligent discharge of his firearm resulting in property damage coupled with excessive force. And no, he was not charged, only fired.

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## Belazure

Okay watched the video in full - other than the smack on the back of the head (which didn't even look that hard) I didn't see anything remotely out of line - there sure as hell was no 'body slam', looked more like a bear hug to me (and she didn't even land on her stomach). I should've known that the OP was hyperbole w/o even having to watch the video. I see no reason to waste taxpayer money prosecuting the guy over something this minor, other than just to be vindictive - he was fired, and that's good enough.

Not to mention the baby momma brought it on herself by resisting arrest and trying to take the officer's pepper spray - whether the hit on the head was right or not, I don't have much if any sympathy for people who go around intentionally looking for trouble - then crying victim when trouble finds them. It'd be like sticking your hand in a tiger's cage - then demanding the animal be euthanized when it bites it all. Stupidity has its consequences.

Not to mention the only 'racism' I saw was of the woman and her 'homies' yelling 'white cracker' at the officers.

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## St James

I have finally reached a conclusion about you....you either a jail guard on steroids that wants to be a cop, or you are a cop that takes steroids
there are thousands of these types of incidents all over youtube as well as news items..............you're just living in a blackened bubble

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## Belazure

> I have finally reached a conclusion about you....you either a jail guard on steroids that wants to be a cop, or you are a cop that takes steroids
> there are thousands of these types of incidents all over youtube as well as news items..............you're just living in a blackened bubble


And... what's your point? The cop in this video got fired - I think it's fair since he had no reason to smack the ghetto bimbo in the back of the head. Doesn't really explain the unnatural obsession with "cops".

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## St James

dude, they aren't cops. they aren't here to serve and protect. they are armed thugs. they live to shoot people. they live to torture people. they are above the law.
I have posted many of these incidents, if you have sources for you belief, then present them, otherwise you got nothing.
Tell a cop about your Constitutional Rights...  see how fast that gets you in trouble.
"everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others..."

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## Guest

> And... what's your point? The cop in this video got fired - I think it's fair since he had no reason to smack the ghetto bimbo in the back of the head. Doesn't really explain the unnatural obsession with "cops".


Because cops are in a position of unquestioned authority, because they are receiving funds from the federal government now, because they have a monopoly on force--these things mean they have to be more circumspect and more appropriate in their jobs than other people.

With much responsibility must should be expected.

Positions of trust require trust, when that trust is lost it causes huge ripples.  An example would be when a teacher or priest is a pedophile as opposed to the guy down the street.  That authority and position makes their violation so much worse.

I think you need to dig a little deeper.

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Gemini (09-10-2013),St James (09-10-2013)

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