# Politics and News > World Affairs >  When does "Islam" equal "Caliphate?"

## Victory

Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?

Imagine, if you will, the Vatican expanding its borders to encompass Italy, then Europe, then North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia through bloody warfare.  And imagine inside its borders contraception outlawed, mandatory Sunday mass, and morning and evening prayers enforced.  You can keep your Protestantism but you will be specially taxed.  You get the idea.  Would Catholicism be evil at that point or could we still not judge Catholicism because there would still be a few people like me who don't think any of this is a good idea?

The same must be asked of Islam.  And if there are any who think that Islam and Caliphate are apples and oranges then let's take a closer look.

Ever see an Arab flag?  Of course you have.  Almost without exception there is black, white, green, and red.








But why so similar?  What do the colors mean?  Well, here you go:

The flags are all derivatives of the Flag of the Arab Revolt



Black = the banner of the Rashidun _Caliphate_
White = the banner of the Umayyid _Caliphate_
Green = the banner of the Fatimid _Caliphate_
Red = the Hashemite Dynasty--leaders of the Arab Revolt

The flag was suggested by the Allies in WWI as a rally flag for the Arab Revolt that led to the FALSE belief that the Arabs would get their own caliphate after the Ottoman Empire fell.  The Ottomans fell, WWI ended, and the Arabs were stabbed in the back with borders redrawn and dictators installed to keep the peace among disparate societies while keeping the trade routes open.

So the very flags of the region are dripping with CALIPHATE all over them.  They are a reminder to the west of a broken promise.  They've been there since 1917.  And ISIL is here to see that promise fulfilled.

So on the one hand you have a divided Middle East--not necessarily a bad thing since another caliphate would mean another super power to destroy but the warfare between the ME states and among their own people is a result of the west's calumny.  On the other hand, if you want to correct the sins of the past you must acknowledge that a caliphate WILL be formed and in this case WILL be expanded, and that Islam will in fact, without much dissention EQUAL The Caliphate.

There it is right in front of us.  It has been there for decades as a reminder:  Maybe for the past hundred years Islam has NOT exactly been equal to The Caliphate or a desire for a Caliphate but who can deny the progress made to that goal?

Islam is not as reformed as it should be.  It's not as modern, not as evolved as it should be.  So what?  It is cancerous.  When does the cancer that is radical Islam seeking a world wide caliphate grow so large as to be indistinguishable from Islam as a whole?

When will the rest of the infidels see clearly?

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Daily Bread (01-08-2015),DonGlock26 (12-21-2014),Jen (06-03-2015),Libhater (10-28-2015),Rutabaga (01-08-2015),usfan (12-16-2014)

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## QuaseMarco

They just need to keep their Caliphate to themselves and stay out of Western countries.

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Jen (06-03-2015)

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## RMNIXON

> There it is right in front of us.  It has been there for decades as a reminder:  Maybe for the past hundred years Islam has NOT exactly been equal to The Caliphate or a desire for a Caliphate *but who can deny the progress made to that goal?*


Oh there is plenty of denial to go around. Muslims have become the new PC pet of choice for Western Liberals.

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Mainecoons (12-16-2014),miss9ball (07-03-2016),Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## Victory

> They just need to keep their Caliphate to themselves and stay out of Western countries


Is that even possible anymore?

Where do we draw the line between freedom of religion and accommodation?

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## QuaseMarco

> Is that even possible anymore?
> 
> Where do we draw the line between freedom of religion and accommodation?


That's the problem with freedom. It is ironic that freedom frequently feeds on itself.

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usfan (12-16-2014)

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## Mainecoons

Islam is a political and military movement first and a religion second.  It should be banned from the west on that basis.

Where ever they get control, they impose Sharia.

Islam at its core is a "religion" of conquest and subjugation.  Frankly, I have no desire to sort them.  The lot should be tossed back into the Middle East and then left to their own devices.

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Canadianeye (12-16-2014),DonGlock26 (12-21-2014),Libhater (10-28-2015),protectionist (06-18-2015),usfan (12-21-2014)

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## Victory

> That's the problem with freedom. It is ironic that freedom frequently feeds on itself.


I'm gonna say accommodation does not equal freedom.

If an American mosque kindly, politely asks city council to ban walking dogs in front of the mosque, the correct reply is "Absolutely not.  Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion and this city council shall make no ordinance banning dog walking with respect to Islam.  Have a nice day, try to get along, and welcome to America.  This is who we are.  If that's not good enough then you know the way home."

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## Coolwalker

They hate each other but more importantly, collectively they all hate us. Never turn your back on any Arab/Muslim.

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protectionist (06-18-2015)

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## Victory

> Oh there is plenty of denial to go around. Muslims have become the new PC pet of choice for Western Liberals.


What would it take for a liberal to realize that a caliphate really is a threat to their existence?  Their own head on a pike?  Is there nothing before that that can convince them?

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## Renaldo Dubois

Islam needs to be eradicated like the Nazis were.

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protectionist (06-18-2015)

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## NuYawka

> When does the cancer that is radical Islam seeking a world wide caliphate grow so large as to be indistinguishable from Islam as a whole?


I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I think it's already happened.

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014),Victory (12-22-2014)

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## Corruptbuddha

> That's the problem with freedom. It is ironic that freedom frequently feeds on itself.



Not frequently....ALWAYS.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?


It is a religion of peace ONLY after the entire world is Shariah ruled. At least that's the belief. It won't happen and it is a false belief.

But that aside, in answer to your question maybe you missed my citations of, *"The Five Stages of Islam,"* which answers your question.

May 29, 2011
*The Five Stages of Islam*

By Richard Butrick

Forget the Five Pillars of Islam.  It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms of  Western Democracy.  Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press.  We should never forget that "Islam" means submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment  values.

Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory Islam to fascist Islam. 

 The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression.  Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher bracket.  The demographics change but the story is the same.  

First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam.  Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya.  He has gulled everyone fromBloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims.  Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

*Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead*

*Population density à 2% (US, Australia, Canada).*

Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

*Stage 2. Establish Outposts*

*Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).*

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.  A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK.  Sound harmless?  Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.

*Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.*

*Population density 5% - 10%  (France, Sweden, Netherlands).*

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia.  When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness.  

In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings.  Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam.  In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law.  The national police do not even enter these ghettos.  

There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities.  In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large.  The children attend madrassas.  They learn only the Koran.  To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

*Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.*

*Population density 20%  -  50% (Europe 2020?).*

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

*Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.*

*Population density >  50%.*

Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels.  As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last.  Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/05/the_five_stages_of_islam.html



*Another source of this info is at this link.*

http://www.think-israel.org/butrick.5stagesislam.html


The direct answer to your question, Victory, is 2% and no more.

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## RMNIXON

> *What would it take for a liberal to realize that a caliphate really is a threat to their existence?  Their own head on a pike?  Is there nothing before that that can convince them?*



It will be too late obviously! 

The caliphate will eventually win over the liberal progressive global secular fantasy. I have little doubt about that. Religion is very powerful no matter what form it takes. 

If only the rest of us can live to watch the moment when they know the truth of fools ignorance. But this is not a practical solution as we would be in the same danger of extinction. 

So we must defend these selfish "feel good" idiots while they mock us!

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## DonGlock26

The foolish Europeans are funding their own destruction by allowing Muslims on the welfare dole as they spit out future 
jihadists.




> *1974: In a UN speech, Boumedienne declares: "One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."**
> *
> Houari Boumedienne
> (1932-1978) President of Algeria 1965-1978.
> 
> http://i-cias.com/e.o/boumedie.htm

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> What would it take for a liberal to realize that a caliphate really is a threat to their existence?  Their own head on a pike?  Is there nothing before that that can convince them?



I'm not sure liberals have a problem with being annihilated.  They believe they deserve to be destroyed because of their past transgressions.  What other explanation can there be for their actions hastening the demise of Western civilization?

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DonGlock26 (12-24-2014)

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

In the 1960's there was a Twilight Zone segment in which a race of aliens from another solar system came to earth.  At first the population was fearful until someone was able to translate the title of the book the aliens used.  The title was "How to Serve Man". Obviously, this meant the aliens were on this planet to help mankind.  A huge starship was built and hundreds of thousands clamored to go aboard to go to the home planet of the aliens so they too could be helped by the aliens.  It was only after the ship left the Earth the rest of the book was translated and discovered to be a cookbook.  

This is exactly what liberal philosophy amounts to, a promise to "serve man" but is in reality nothing more than a manual for his demise.

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014),Victory (12-23-2014)

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## Donald Polish

Islam is a world religion first of all. The main problem is that Western countries like our US politiсized it roughly. You mislead people when call it a political and MILITARY movement. Of course, it has military organization or a military branch like Salafia inside itself. THe Middle East unfortunately isn't the only place where Islam has deep deep roots.

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## loveisblindness

> Islam is a political and military movement first and a religion second.  It should be banned from the west on that basis.
> 
> Where ever they get control, they impose Sharia.
> 
> Islam at its core is a "religion" of conquest and subjugation.  Frankly, I have no desire to sort them.  The lot should be tossed back into the Middle East and then left to their own devices.


Everybody who thinks like that are bigots. B.I.G.O.T.S.
In the middle of the 20th century the number of islamic fundamentalists and radicals was insignificantly. But in 50's and 60's the US government started to support Saudi Arabia (home of islamic fundamentalists) then the US government decided to support madjahedeens in Afghanistan in their war against the Soviet Union. 

for you

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/...aeda-and-isis/
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...-for-al-qaeda/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-by-the-u-s/

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## Hairball

> Everybody who thinks like that are bigots. B.I.G.O.T.S.
> In the middle of the 20th century the number of islamic fundamentalists and radicals was insignificantly. But in 50's and 60's the US government started to support Saudi Arabia (home of islamic fundamentalists) then the US government decided to support madjahedeens in Afghanistan in their war against the Soviet Union. 
> 
> for you
> 
> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/...aeda-and-isis/
> http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...-for-al-qaeda/
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-by-the-u-s/



Then why did y'all fly planes into the towers and crash others? For the love of Allah? I don't remember any Islamists or Muslims taking to the streets in protest of 911. 

Just asking.

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014),protectionist (12-22-2014)

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## Victory

> It is a religion of peace ONLY after the entire world is Shariah ruled. At least that's the belief. It won't happen and it is a false belief.
> 
> But that aside, in answer to your question maybe you missed my citations of, *"The Five Stages of Islam,"* which answers your question.
> May 29, 2011
> *The Five Stages of Islam*
> 
> By Richard Butrick
> 
> Forget the Five Pillars of Islam.  It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms of  Western Democracy.  Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press.  We should never forget that "Islam" means submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment  values.
> ...


I didn't miss it.  In fact I got the "walking your dog in front of a mosque" issue from it.

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## protectionist

> Then why did y'all fly planes into the towers and crash others? For the love of Allah? I don't remember any Islamists or Muslims taking to the streets in protest of 911. 
> 
> Just asking.


1.  I remember them celebrating it.

2.  Islam is not a religion.

3.  Islam is ALWAYS a caliphate-seeking menace.

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Hairball (12-24-2014),Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014),Renaldo Dubois (12-23-2014)

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## Victory

> In the 1960's there was a Twilight Zone segment in which a race of aliens from another solar system came to earth.  At first the population was fearful until someone was able to translate the title of the book the aliens used.  The title was "How to Serve Man". Obviously, this meant the aliens were on this planet to help mankind.  A huge starship was built and hundreds of thousands clamored to go aboard to go to the home planet of the aliens so they too could be helped by the aliens.  It was only after the ship left the Earth the rest of the book was translated and discovered to be a cookbook.  
> 
> This is exactly what liberal philosophy amounts to, a promise to "serve man" but is in reality nothing more than a manual for his demise.


Awesome!

My wife and I are big black and white Twilight Zone fans.  Often we goof on each other with that line of revelation.  We were in Israel in a museum looking at sections of the Dead Sea Scrolls looking at the old indecipherable text and she suddenly blurted out, "It's a cookbook!"

But seriously, The Twilight Zone is timeless and this is one of the best episodes.  Lots of subtle Communist/Progressive undertones--Santa Claus delivered, Utopia, promise of peace and harmony doled out by our powerful benefactors (instead of achieved by ourselves).  It's everything great Science Fiction should be.  It is social commentary in an SF format like the best from Heinlein, Ellison, or Simmons.  Great episode!

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## Hairball

I don't see anything good coming from them. The so-called "peaceful" Muslims are nowhere to be found, while ISIS is running rampant.

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Pregnar Kraps (12-24-2014)

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## Roadmaster

I just wonder in Gaza how Christians kept their heads all this long. Or why they all liked the Syrian Army in Syria and Assad. How about the West Bank where Christians and Arabs live. Americans are not all Christians and Arabs and not all Islam.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> It will be too late obviously! 
> 
> The caliphate will eventually win over the liberal progressive global secular fantasy. I have little doubt about that. Religion is very powerful no matter what form it takes. 
> 
> If only the rest of us can live to watch the moment when they know the truth of fools ignorance. But this is not a practical solution as we would be in the same danger of extinction. 
> 
> So we must defend these selfish "feel good" idiots while they mock us!


It's like the silly Europeans who have been so unconcerned for so long by the enemies of Freedom because Uncle Sam was there providing for their defense, that some no longer even contemplated their own defense and, unfortunately, we have enabled their nonchalance. 

It's like carefree children who have never had to fend for themselves yet they rebel and complain while we keep them safe and well fed and, well, free of care.

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Victory (01-08-2015)

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## Pregnar Kraps

> The foolish Europeans are funding their own destruction by allowing Muslims on the welfare dole as they spit out future 
> jihadists.


1974: In a UN speech, Boumedienne declares: "One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."


Houari Boumedienne
(1932-1978) President of Algeria 1965-1978.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/boumedie.htm


Nice catch!

 :Thumbsup20: 

PK

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## Pregnar Kraps

> In the 1960's there was a Twilight Zone segment in which a race of aliens from another solar system came to earth.  At first the population was fearful until someone was able to translate the title of the book the aliens used.  The title was "How to Serve Man". Obviously, this meant the aliens were on this planet to help mankind.  A huge starship was built and hundreds of thousands clamored to go aboard to go to the home planet of the aliens so they too could be helped by the aliens.  It was only after the ship left the Earth the rest of the book was translated and discovered to be a cookbook.  
> 
> This is exactly what liberal philosophy amounts to, a promise to "serve man" but is in reality nothing more than a manual for his demise.



*T*he situation in the world today borders on the fantastic. 

Never before in history has one civilization allowed large numbers of those who come from an alien, and immutably hostile situation, to settle deep within that first civilization’s borders. 

Never before have the members of one civilization failed to investigate, and even willfully refused to investigate, or to listen to those who warn about, the consequences for all non-Muslims of the belief-system of Islam. In history, the phenomenon of the Barbarians at the Gates is hardly new. Those barbarians lay siege; if they win, they enter in triumph. Should they lose, the advanced civilization survives. 

But never before have the gates been opened, to an entering force that has not even been identified or understood. 

Never before have the inhabitants of the by-now vulnerable city made efforts not to recognize, or realize, what they have done, and what they have undone. 

That demographic intrusion shows no signs of diminishing. 

The systematic building of mosques and madrasas, paid for by Saudi Arabia, everywhere in the Western world, helps to make the conduct of Muslim life easier. 

Western populations have been trained to make much of “celebrating diversity” and “promoting difference” and constructing, on a base of militant but unexamined pluralism, an edifice of legal rights and entitlements. These rights, these entitlements, this militant pluralism are exploited by Muslims who do not believe in pluralism. 

*Nor do they accept the individual rights of conscience and free speech, the legal equality of men and women, and of religious and racial minorities, recognized, for example, in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.* 

Their current claim to support pluralism is based on the need to protect, and increase the power of, the Muslim umma, or Community, within the West, until such time as that umma no longer needs to pretend to have any interest in Western pluralism and Western values.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/01/fi...idels-part-one

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Everybody who thinks like that are bigots. B.I.G.O.T.S.
> In the middle of the 20th century the number of islamic fundamentalists and radicals was insignificantly. But in 50's and 60's the US government started to support Saudi Arabia (home of islamic fundamentalists) then the US government decided to support madjahedeens in Afghanistan in their war against the Soviet Union. 
> 
> for you
> 
> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/...aeda-and-isis/
> http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...-for-al-qaeda/
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-by-the-u-s/


You are mistaken.

Read my sig.

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Oh there is plenty of denial to go around. Muslims have become the new PC pet of choice for Western Liberals.






*The Snake by Al Wilson
*
On her way to work one morning
Down the path alongside the lake
A tender-hearted woman saw a poor half-frozen snake
His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
"Oh well," she cried, "I'll take you in and I'll take care of you"
"Take me in oh tender woman
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman," sighed the snake


She wrapped him up all cozy in a curvature of silk
And then laid him by the fireside with some honey and some milk 
Now she hurried home from work that night as soon as she arrived 
She found that pretty snake she'd taken in had been revived
"Take me in, oh tender woman 
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman," sighed the snake


Now she clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
"But if I hadn't brought you in by now you might have died"
Now she stroked his pretty skin and then she kissed and held him tight 
But instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite
"Take me in, oh tender woman 
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman," sighed the snake


*"I saved you," cried that woman
"And you've bit me even, why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin 
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in 
*
"Take me in, oh tender woman 
Take me in, for heaven's sake
Take me in oh tender woman," sighed the snake


source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/

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## hoytmonger

> islam needs to be eradicated like the nazis were.


lol!

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## Pregnar Kraps

> Is that even possible anymore?
> 
> Where do we draw the line between freedom of religion and accommodation?


This essay was significant in the mid 2000's because it saw the situation clearly.

The writer, Lee Harris, cut through the B.S. to see the facts in the right context.

Inherently imperialistic Islam is likened to a a plague which can't be reasoned with. It can either, be allowed to kill its host, or _it_ should be eradicated asap.

Harris used the example of Mexican Emperor Montezuma, whose kingdom was destroyed because, not understanding the dangers they posed to his world, he welcomed an extended presence of Cortez and his Conquistadors until his world was wiped out by the Spaniards and their unacceptable level of toxicity.

If he'd known the truth about these strangers who'd arrived on his shores he'd have been well advised to have killed every one on sight.

August & September 2002
*Al Qaeda's Fantasy Ideology*

*by* Lee Harris
Thursday, August 1, 2002

"...There is one decisive advantage to the “evildoer” metaphor, and it is this: Combat with evildoers is not Clausewitzian war. You do not make treaties with evildoers or try to adjust your conduct to make them like you. You do not try to see the world from the evildoers’ point of view. You do not try to appease them, or persuade them, or reason with them. You try, on the contrary, to outwit them, to vanquish them, to kill them. You behave with them in the same manner that you would deal with a fatal epidemic — you try to wipe it out.

So perhaps it is time to retire the war metaphor and to deploy one that is more fitting: the struggle to eradicate disease. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century, after all, spread like a virus in susceptible populations: Their propagation was not that suggested by John Stuart Mill’s marketplace of ideas — fantasy ideologies were not debated and examined, weighed and measured, evaluated and compared. They grew and spread like a cancer in the body politic. For the people who accepted them did not accept them as tentative or provisional. They were unalterable and absolute. And finally, after driving out all other competing ideas and ideologies, they literally turned their host organism into the instrument of their own poisonous and deadly will.


The same thing is happening today — and that is our true enemy. The poison of the radical Islamic fantasy ideology is being spread all over the Muslim world through schools and through the media, through mosques and through the demagoguery of the Arab street. In fact, there is no better way to grasp the full horror of the poison than to listen as a Palestinian mother offers her four-year-old son up to be yet another victim of this ghastly fantasy.


Once we understand this, many of our current perplexities will find themselves resolved. Pseudo-issues such as debates over the legitimacy of “racial profiling” would disappear: Does anyone in his right mind object to screening someone entering his country for signs of plague? Or quarantining those who have contracted it? Or closely monitoring precisely those populations within his country that are most at risk?


Let there be no doubt about it. The fantasy ideologies of the twentieth century were plagues, killing millions and millions of innocent men, women, and children. The only difference was that the victims and targets of such fantasy ideologies so frequently refused to see them for what they were, interpreting them as something quite different — as normal politics, as reasonable aspirations, as merely variations on the well-known theme of realpolitik, behaving — tragically enough — no differently from Montezuma when he attempted to decipher the inexplicable enigma posed by the appearance of the Spanish conquistadors. Nor did the fact that his response was entirely human make his fate any less terrible."







http://www.hoover.org/research/al-qa...ntasy-ideology

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Victory (01-08-2015)

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## hoytmonger

Is the US empire a 'caliphate'? Does the US dollar, as a world reserve currency, make the US a dominant world leader? Matched with the overwhelming military force the US possesses, is the US now a world 'caliphate'? (especially since PrezBO is a muslim as is the DIRCIA)

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## DonGlock26

> I don't see anything good coming from them. The so-called "peaceful" Muslims are nowhere to be found, while ISIS is running rampant.


If Jews or Christians took an army into Iraq and was acting like ISIS, the Muslims would go ape shit.

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## DonGlock26

> Is the US empire a 'caliphate'? Does the US dollar, as a world reserve currency, make the US a dominant world leader? Matched with the overwhelming military force the US possesses, is the US now a world 'caliphate'? (especially since PrezBO is a muslim as is the DIRCIA)


No. Do you hate America? Are you really a communist?

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## Trinnity

> Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?
> 
> [...] 
> 
> There it is right in front of us.  It has been there for decades as a reminder:  Maybe for the past hundred years Islam has NOT exactly been equal to The Caliphate or a desire for a Caliphate but who can deny the progress made to that goal?
> 
> Islam is not as reformed as it should be.  It's not as modern, not as evolved as it should be.  So what?  It is cancerous.  When does the cancer that is radical Islam seeking a world wide caliphate grow so large as to be indistinguishable from Islam as a whole?
> 
> When will the rest of the infidels see clearly?


It's the Pan-Islamic Empire I've spoken of many times. They take it seriously and remind us with their murderous violence every chance they get. When will we take it seriously???

----------

RMNIXON (01-07-2015),Victory (01-08-2015)

----------


## Trinnity

Any questions?

----------


## Trinnity

Again with this "religion of peace" doesn't mean what you once thought it meant....


*"Mr. Cantat spoke for many when he said the attacks could fuel greater anti-immigrant sentiment. We are told Islam is for God, for peace, he said. But when you see this other Islam, with the jihadists, I dont see peace, I see hatred. So people cant tell which is the real Islam. "
*
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/wo...or-europe.html

Are we so "civilized" we'll lose everything for policital correctness? This is a war for Sharia and against freedom.



What does it take for western govts and people to get this? Geez, it's not like they hide their intentions.

----------


## Victory

> Again with this "religion of peace" doesn't mean what you once thought it meant....
> 
> 
> *"Mr. Cantat spoke for many when he said the attacks could fuel greater anti-immigrant sentiment. “We are told Islam is for God, for peace,” he said. “But when you see this other Islam, with the jihadists, I don’t see peace, I see hatred. So people can’t tell which is the real Islam.” "
> *
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/08/wo...or-europe.html
> 
> Are we so "civilized" we'll lose everything for policital correctness? This is a war for Sharia and against freedom.
> 
> ...


I wonder if it's time we just stop talking about "fighting Islam" all together.  I don't think that's ever going to be a starter.  How 'bout we start talking about "stopping the Caliphate," because that's the real threat, right?  That drive is the real drive behind ALL this shit.

But what is the Caliphate?  The Caliphate is certainly ISIL but it also includes every single person and intent against the west including 9/11, 7/7, these assholes in the picture above, CAIR, the murderers of Theo van Gogh, the murderers in Paris, and _every asshole who wants to pass an ordinance against dog walking in front of a mosque,_ and all points in between.

These are the people we deport, bomb, and otherwise scrape off the face of the earth like so much dog shit.

Somebody might say, "Well, that's all Muslims."  If that is the case then so be it.  Let the chips, seriously, fall where they may.  But you can't deport based on religion.  You CAN deport based on seditious acts.  Let's just have the balls to say, "I know what your ordinance is all about.  It is stage 1 in establishing a Caliphate and as such demands your deportation."

The tiny fraction of Islam (like Zudi Jasser) interested in reform will embrace this approach.  The rest can go fuck themselves.

----------


## Hansel

I think the long term objective of Islam is to dominate the world. The Koran tells us that.

----------


## Trinnity

> I think the long term objective of Islam is to dominate the world. The Koran tells us that.


You think? 

Gee, who let that secret out of the bag?

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-08-2015)

----------


## Victory

> I think the long term objective of Islam is to dominate the world. The Koran tells us that.


Welcome to reality.  Have you burned your "liberal card" yet?

----------


## Victory

> Islam is a world religion first of all. The main problem is that Western countries like our US politiсized it roughly.


Utter bullshit!  How in the name of Allah can you watch the politicization of Islam from all corners of the Middle East and blame that politicization on the US?  When faced with the unvarnished truth you would deny your own eyes and ears.




> You mislead people when call it a political and MILITARY movement. *Of course, it has military organization or a military branch* like Salafia inside itself.


But don't you DARE call it a military movement.  You contradict yourself in 3 seconds flat.  What is the ultimate goal here?  Religion or power?  The answer will tell you who is in charge.




> THe Middle East unfortunately isn't the only place where Islam has deep deep roots.


That's right.  It also has deep roots in France, Spain, England, Indonesia, India. . .  The Caliphate seems to be humming along.

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-08-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Everybody who thinks like that are bigots. B.I.G.O.T.S.
> In the middle of the 20th century the number of islamic fundamentalists and radicals was insignificantly. But in 50's and 60's the US government started to support Saudi Arabia (home of islamic fundamentalists) then the US government decided to support madjahedeens in Afghanistan in their war against the Soviet Union. 
> 
> for you
> 
> http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/09/...aeda-and-isis/
> http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/...-for-al-qaeda/
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...or-by-the-u-s/


Then what is your answer to the OP?

When do the nut job caliphate seekers and beheaders and Sharia Law lovers in Islam become so numerous such that Islam assumes the general character of the nut jobs?

Tell us, oh open minded and tolerant one!

----------


## Victory

> I just wonder in Gaza how Christians kept their heads all this long. Or why they all liked the Syrian Army in Syria and Assad. How about the West Bank where Christians and Arabs live. Americans are not all Christians and Arabs and not all Islam.


When I was in Jerusalem my wife and I did a lot of touring.  It is amazing that Jews, Christians, Arabian Jews, Druze, Palestinian Jews, and Muslims all live in the same city without tearing each other apart.  Sure, they have attacks every now and then, the Temple/Golden Mosque gets locked down until the commotion dies down but any Jerusalem Muslim will tell you living in Jerusalem _under Israeli rule_ beats the hell out of living under some asshole like Assad or a Saudi prince.

----------


## Hansel

> Welcome to reality.  Have you burned your "liberal card" yet?


 Huh?

----------


## Victory

> Huh?


Guess not.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

1974: In a UN speech, Boumedienne declares: "One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory."




Houari Boumedienne
(1932-1978) President of Algeria 1965-1978.




http://i-cias.com/e.o/boumedie.htm

----------


## Trinnity

*People know the consequences: Opposing view*

*
Contrary to popular misconception, Islam does not mean peace but rather means submission to the commands of Allah alone. Therefore, Muslims do not believe in the concept of freedom of expression, as their speech and actions are determined by divine revelation and not based on people's desires.*

Although Muslims may not agree about the idea of freedom of expression, even non-Muslims who espouse it say it comes with responsibilities. In an increasingly unstable and insecure world, the potential consequences of insulting the Messenger Muhammad are known to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Muslims consider the honor of the Prophet Muhammad to be dearer to them than that of their parents or even themselves. To defend it is considered to be an obligation upon them. The strict punishment if found guilty of this crime under sharia (Islamic law) is capital punishment implementable by an Islamic State. This is because the Messenger Muhammad said, "Whoever insults a Prophet kill him." However, because the honor of the Prophet is something which all Muslims want to defend, many will take the law into their own hands, as we often see.


_Within liberal democracies, freedom of expression has curtailments, such as laws against incitement and hatred. The truth is that Western governments are content to sacrifice liberties and freedoms when being complicit to torture and rendition — or when restricting the freedom of movement of Muslims, under the guise of protecting national security. So why in this case did the French government allow the magazine Charlie Hebdo to continue to provoke Muslims, thereby placing the sanctity of its citizens at risk?_ _It is time that the sanctity of a Prophet revered by up to one-quarter of the world's population was protected.

_USA Today/*Anjem Choudary*
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinio...ates/21417461/ 

Choudery is an Indian name, btw. What's this ass saying? He's saying Freedom of Speech should mean it's illegal ad punishable by law to insult Islam. See how the Islamists win? I say hell no.

----------

Katzndogz (01-09-2015),Victory (01-09-2015)

----------


## Trinnity

Oh. And while I'm at it...







  :Tongue20:

----------


## Victory

> *People know the consequences: Opposing view*
> 
> *
> Contrary to popular misconception, Islam does not mean peace but rather means submission to the commands of Allah alone. Therefore, Muslims do not believe in the concept of freedom of expression, as their speech and actions are determined by divine revelation and not based on people's desires.*
> 
> Although Muslims may not agree about the idea of freedom of expression, even non-Muslims who espouse it say it comes with responsibilities. In an increasingly unstable and insecure world, the potential consequences of insulting the Messenger Muhammad are known to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Muslims consider the honor of the Prophet Muhammad to be dearer to them than that of their parents or even themselves. To defend it is considered to be an obligation upon them. The strict punishment if found guilty of this crime under sharia (Islamic law) is capital punishment implementable by an Islamic State. This is because the Messenger Muhammad said, "Whoever insults a Prophet kill him." However, because the honor of the Prophet is something which all Muslims want to defend, many will take the law into their own hands, as we often see.
> 
> 
> _Within liberal democracies, freedom of expression has curtailments, such as laws against incitement and hatred. The truth is that Western governments are content to sacrifice liberties and freedoms when being complicit to torture and rendition  or when restricting the freedom of movement of Muslims, under the guise of protecting national security. So why in this case did the French government allow the magazine Charlie Hebdo to continue to provoke Muslims, thereby placing the sanctity of its citizens at risk?_ _It is time that the sanctity of a Prophet revered by up to one-quarter of the world's population was protected.
> ...



It's like this.  Clevon Little is Islam with the gun (image of Mu-ham-med) pointed at his own head.  Choudrey is that idiot Harriet at 0:42.  And the townsfolk are the idiot left apologists.




I used to not particularly like this scene.  But damn!  That Mel Brooks is a genius!

----------

RMNIXON (01-16-2015)

----------


## Trinnity



----------

Victory (01-09-2015)

----------


## Victory

> 



I hear death is very calm and peaceful.  Does that make Islam a religion of death?  Hmmm.

Rest in peace = rest in death sooooo. . .

----------


## RMNIXON

> It's like this.  Clevon Little is Islam with the gun (image of Mu-ham-med) pointed at his own head.  Choudrey is that idiot Harriet at 0:42.  And the townsfolk are the idiot left apologists.
> 
> 
> I used to not particularly like this scene.  But damn!  That Mel Brooks is a genius!



They know us well enough to understand we have basic empathy for the plight of all human beings. And they use this against us at every opportunity. 

Something they need not bother with since all non-Muslims are to be subjugated or exterminated, and all persons from the infant to the elderly are acceptable targets of violence. 

That is why terrorists hide behind women and children, especially in the non existent state of Palestine. If the human shield works then fine. If not they cry foul! 

Liberals are such east tools of these people and that is why they can win against the worst possible odds.

----------

NuYawka (01-16-2015)

----------


## sooda

> When I was in Jerusalem my wife and I did a lot of touring.  It is amazing that Jews, Christians, Arabian Jews, Druze, Palestinian Jews, and Muslims all live in the same city without tearing each other apart.  Sure, they have attacks every now and then, the Temple/Golden Mosque gets locked down until the commotion dies down but any Jerusalem Muslim will tell you living in Jerusalem _under Israeli rule_ beats the hell out of living under some asshole like Assad or a Saudi prince.


So you lived in Saudi Arabia too??

I made three separate two week trips to the Holy Lands and I agree that various groups worked side by side without conflict.. which begs the question "why Israeli expansion and the destruction of 800,000 olive trees?"

----------


## Victory

> I made three separate two week trips to the Holy Lands and I agree that various groups worked side by side without conflict.. which begs the question "why Israeli expansion and the destruction of 800,000 olive trees?"


Begging the question is circular reasoning.  You don't know what "begging the question" means.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Why 2000 rocket attacks in a two month period from the Gaza strip?

----------

DonGlock26 (01-31-2015),Sheldonna (02-02-2015)

----------


## cable2

Golly Gosh... I'm new to this forum and this is the first thread I thought I may have some thing to add.. then I read the post to the strange OP.. I could not believe how hateful most of the posts where.. it looks like this forum is full hate towards Islam, even though most do not understand Islam going by their posts.. 

you talk like Islam is one collective group, which makes as much sense as saying Christianity is one collective group.. you also talk about all the fighting Islamic groups are all one and the same, which again is far from the truth.. 

it's no wonder why the West have not any any war in the past 14 years... you don't know who you are fighting or why.

----------

sooda (01-25-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Golly Gosh... I'm new to this forum and this is the first thread I thought I may have some thing to add.. then I read the post to the strange OP.. I could not believe how hateful most of the posts where.. it looks like this forum is full hate towards Islam, even though most do not understand Islam going by their posts.. 
> 
> you talk like Islam is one collective group, which makes as much sense as saying Christianity is one collective group.. you also talk about all the fighting Islamic groups are all one and the same, which again is far from the truth.. 
> 
> it's no wonder why the West have not any any war in the past 14 years... you don't know who you are fighting or why.


I can't believe people will bare their necks and allow their heads to be severed if it means they die for the sacred principle of tolerance.  Some people have no priorities.

----------


## cable2

> * Originally Posted by cable2* 
> _Golly Gosh... I'm new to this forum and this is the first thread I thought I may have some thing to add.. then I read the post to the strange OP.. I could not believe how hateful most of the posts where.. it looks like this forum is full hate towards Islam, even though most do not understand Islam going by their posts.. 
> 
> you talk like Islam is one collective group, which makes as much sense as saying Christianity is one collective group.. you also talk about all the fighting Islamic groups are all one and the same, which again is far from the truth.. 
> 
> it's no wonder why the West have not any any war in the past 14 years... you don't know who you are fighting or why._





> _I can't believe people will bare their necks_ and allow their heads to be severed if it means they die for the sacred principle of tolerance.  Some people have no priorities.


which people*????* Me*????

*or did you mean any one who is willing to stand up the 'right wing' hatred posted here *????*

----------


## Victory

> which people*????* Me*????
> 
> *or did you mean any one who is willing to stand up the 'right wing' hatred posted here *????*


 :Moron: 




> it looks like this forum is full hate towards Islam, even though most do not understand Islam going by their posts..


equals




> I can't believe people will bare their necks and allow their heads to be severed if it means they die for the sacred principle of tolerance.


So put away your shifting goal posts and your "right wing hatred" (always a crowd pleaser, right?).  I'll bet you have a whole deck of race cards you were about to play.  That shit won't wash.

It's all about the Caliphate.  If you didn't get that from the OP then you're pretty damn dense and there's not a lot of hope for you.  Sorry.  It's like watching a school bus load of retarded chimpanzees drive off a cliff.  Wow.  Not much I can do about it.  Sucks to be them.

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015)

----------


## cable2

> So put away your shifting goal posts and your "right wing hatred" (always a crowd pleaser, right?). I'll bet you have a whole deck of race cards you were about to play. That shit won't wash.


are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser'  :Smile:  




> It's all about the Caliphate. If you didn't get that from the OP then you're pretty damn dense and there's not a lot of hope for you


.

what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn.

----------


## Victory

> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn.


Why do you hate your fellow Americans so much? These people don't want to hurt you.  They are the coaches, babysitters, and playmates of your kids.  You work with them and don't even know it.  And yet I can see the hate burning in your words--a hatred for people you hardly even know.  You know, deep down inside conservatives and liberals are pretty similar. 

Why the hate, cable?  Why are you such a hater?

----------


## nonsqtr

> Why 2000 rocket attacks in a two month period from the Gaza strip?


Excess inventory?

----------


## nonsqtr

> are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser'


You just got here and you're already telling the old timers (and the owners) how to run the forum?

Hint: you're not winning friends and influencing people with this type of behavior.





> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn.  [/COLOR]


Just as the posters on this board have not earned your feeble attempts at moralism.

Let's get one thing perfectly clear: this is my country. It doesn't belong to some bass-ackwards camel jockey that wants to blow religious smoke up my butt. *There is no room for Sharia law in this country.*

The Muslims of this world want me to show some respect for the idiotic prophet (may he roast in hell)?

Then *fine*, they can show some respect for my idiotic Constitution first. 

And they can do that by keeping their grubby filthy little porcine paws OFF of my laws and OUT of my politics.

There will be ZERO accommodation for Sharia law on my watch.

Zero.

I don't want any part of it, and I'll fight like hell to make sure it doesn't touch me or mine.

Now, are you done speaking for the world's 1.6 billion Muslims or did you have something else to add on their behalf?

----------

Hairball (01-30-2015),Rutabaga (01-31-2015),Victory (01-30-2015)

----------


## Hairball

> are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser'  
> 
> 
> .
> 
> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn.  [/COLOR]

----------


## Katzndogz

> You just got here and you're already telling the old timers (and the owners) how to run the forum?
> 
> Hint: you're not winning friends and influencing people with this type of behavior.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as the posters on this board have not earned your feeble attempts at moralism.
> 
> ...


Don't you know who this is?  Can't you recognize the method?

Call them the sharia network for lack of a better term.  Thousands of appointed and self appointed representatives that do nothing but scour the internet spreading the message and maybe once in a while discovering a sympathetic soul to direct.  

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30448772

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015)

----------


## Hairball

What I quoted you up there. 

Listen. Muslims flew planes in our buildings, killing almost 3000 innocent people. I never saw any Muslims protest that.

Don't you dare try to tell me that garbage. I have the NAMES of those who died.

Back off.

----------


## Roadmaster

Islam is dangerous to our society. Anyone who says different is crazy. With our liberal judges, they will try to put their laws here and call us bigots for not wanting them.

----------


## Roadmaster

> What I quoted you up there. 
> 
> Listen. Muslims flew planes in our buildings, killing almost 3000 innocent people. I never saw any Muslims protest that.
> 
> Don't you dare try to tell me that garbage. I have the NAMES of those who died.
> 
> Back off.


While I am against Islam, the celebrations they showed were fake on CNN.  One was of a wedding celebration that happened in the 1980s. One must ask themselves why go to this extreme and what are we not shown. Just like the pro-life march, thousands showed up and not one second of coverage by our media.

----------


## Victory

> are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser'  
> 
> .
> 
> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn.  [/COLOR]


Are you a Muslim?

Is English your second language?

----------


## cable2

_Originally Posted by cable2 
are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser' 

_




> You just got here and you're already telling the old timers (and the owners) how to run the forum?
> 
> Hint: you're not winning friends and influencing people with this type of behavior.
> 
> 
> _
> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn. [/COLOR]
> _
> 
> ...


NO, I'm just standing to the bigoted, racist and hate filled anti-Muslim propaganda that's spread across this forum like the 'red-necks' from hell... I think it is the duty of every one to stand up against such hatred, no matter who it's aimed at.. Jews Blacks or Muslims or Roma or...............

----------


## cable2

> *Originally Posted by cable2*





> _are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser'  
> 
> what I got from the OP and posts that came after it... was the hate had spread towards ALL Muslims of the world.. a hate that 1.6 Billions people across the world, did not earn._







> What I quoted you up there. 
> 
> Listen. _Muslims flew planes in our buildings, killing almost 3000 innocent people_. I never saw any Muslims protest that.
> 
> Don't you dare try to tell me that garbage. I have the NAMES of those who died.
> 
> Back off.


me thinks you'll find few American Muslims who did not protest the crimes on 9/11, in fact I can't remember reading of one... American Muslims where as shocked as the rest of the country, in fact many Muslims where in that roll call you have... plus no one American Muslim took part in any of the crimes on 9/11, no one... come to think of it very few Muslims did take part in the crimes on 9/11, and most of those died that day.

----------


## nonsqtr

> NO, I'm just standing to the bigoted, racist and hate filled anti-Muslim propaganda that's spread across this forum like the 'red-necks' from hell... I think it is the duty of every one to stand up against such hatred, no matter who it's aimed at.. Jews Blacks or Muslims or Roma or...............


Hm.

So you're admitting your primary concern here is the "racist and hate filled anti-Muslim propaganda"?

Tell ya what - that kind of verbiage doesn't even impinge on my radar screen. I have a thick skin, 'cause I ride public transpo all day. I can't even get on or off a bus without hearing one black teen calling another a "n****r". It's all over the music, they're even spouting that sh*t when there's no one around! Niggas and ho's, that's what it's all about right?

Excuse me but the "propaganda" in relation to a bunch of murdering terrorists is the very last thing I'm going to worry about. I figure it's "their" problem, if "they" don't want Islam tainted with terrorism and brutal repression then they oughta *speak out and stop doing it*.

Me, I got more important stuff to worry about. Like how I'm going to feed my kids, and get medicine for my 92 year old mom. Anyone who tries to stop me from doing that "because I'm not a good Muslim" is going to get the full force of my anger in response, and believe me it's considerable at this point.

----------


## Victory

> NO, I'm just standing to the bigoted, *racist* and hate filled anti-Muslim propaganda that's spread across this forum like the 'red-necks' from hell... I think it is the duty of every one to stand up against such hatred, no matter who it's aimed at.. Jews Blacks or Muslims or Roma or...............


Thar she blows!

I knew you had a deck of race cards you were just itching to play!  The "racist" label doesn't stick anymore.  It's done been overused.

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015)

----------


## cable2

> Originally Posted by *cable2* 
> _NO, I'm just standing to the bigoted, racist and hate filled anti-Muslim propaganda that's spread across this forum like the 'red-necks' from hell... I think it is the duty of every one to stand up against such hatred, no matter who it's aimed at.. Jews Blacks or Muslims or Roma or..............._





> Thar she blows!
> 
> I knew you had a deck of race cards you were just itching to play!  The "racist" label doesn't stick anymore.  It's done been overused.


and that's the only way you feel you can counter the whole post..........  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## DonGlock26

> Golly Gosh... I'm new to this forum and this is the first thread I thought I may have some thing to add.. then I read the post to the strange OP.. I could not believe how hateful most of the posts where.. it looks like this forum is full hate towards Islam, even though most do not understand Islam going by their posts.. 
> 
> you talk like Islam is one collective group, which makes as much sense as saying Christianity is one collective group.. you also talk about all the fighting Islamic groups are all one and the same, which again is far from the truth.. 
> 
> it's no wonder why the West have not any any war in the past 14 years... you don't know who you are fighting or why.


I see. So, when progressives speak of Christians as a whole, they are being hate-filled bigots. 
That makes sense.

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> which people*????* Me*????
> 
> *or did you mean any one who is willing to stand up the 'right wing' hatred posted here *????*


I use to think that liberals stood up for women and homosexual rights. Then, I saw them support Muslims over the human
rights of women and homosexuals. I soon realized that who the Left supports doesn't come for a sense of justice 
or morality, but rather from a sense of political expediency. By that I mean, they support whatever "victim" group
that puts the Left at a seemingly political advantage over the Right.

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015),Sunrise (01-31-2015)

----------


## sooda

> I use to think that liberals stood up for women and homosexual rights. Then, I saw them support Muslims over the human
> rights of women and homosexuals. I soon realized that who the Left supports doesn't come for a sense of justice 
> or morality, but rather from a sense of political expediency. By that I mean, they support whatever "victim" group
> that puts the Left at a seemingly political advantage over the Right.


How would you change civil rights if they weren't in the "hands of progressives"?

----------


## DonGlock26

> _Originally Posted by cable2 
> are you saying you 'right-wingers' are a 'RACE' or that you think I see you on the 'right' as a 'RACE'.. and as for your claim of 'a crowd pleaser', this forum is not the place for such a 'pleaser' 
> 
> _
> 
> 
> 
> NO, *I'm just standing to the bigoted, racist and hate filled* anti-Muslim propaganda that's spread across this forum like *the 'red-necks'* from hell... I think it is the duty of every one to stand up against such hatred, no matter who it's aimed at.. Jews Blacks or Muslims or Roma or...............


Who stands up to the Left's hatred and bigotry for the working class people of rural America?

----------

Sunrise (01-31-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> How would you change civil rights if they weren't in the "hands of progressives"?


Why, I wouldn't change anything. I would insist that the written words in the law have actual meaning and be followed
rather than allow liberal judges to legislate from the bench using legal gymnastics and manufacturing law 
from whole cloth. 

But, I'll put it in simpler terms for you and Cable2. I'd follow MLK's speech. No more reverse discrimination. No notice of race at all.
Just merit. I think everyone except the Left could live in peace with MLK's speech.


No, it is the LEFT that cannot live in a world governed by these words:

----------

Rutabaga (01-31-2015),Sunrise (01-31-2015),Victory (01-31-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Why, I wouldn't change anything. I would insist that the written words in the law have actual meaning and be followed
> rather than allow liberal judges to legislate from the bench using legal gymnastics and manufacturing law 
> from whole cloth. 
> 
> But, I'll put it in simpler terms for you and Cable2. I'd follow MLK's speech. No more reverse discrimination. No notice of race at all.
> Just merit. I think everyone except the Left could live in peace with MLK's speech.
> 
> 
> No, it is the LEFT that cannot live in a world governed by these words:


Which laws are wrong in your eyes?

----------


## DonGlock26

> Which laws are wrong in your eyes?


I don't recall saying that laws are wrong. 

Do you have a comment on my reply to you?

----------


## Victory

> and that's the only way you feel you can counter the whole post..........


Well, it's a bullshit post so it doesn't require a counter at all.  Consider yourself blessed that I gave you _that_ much.

----------


## Victory

> I see. So, when progressives speak of Christians as a whole, they are being hate-filled bigots. 
> That makes sense.


No no no.  You gotta get it right!  When Muslims shoot up an Army base or blow up a sporting event you can't say anything about Muslims.  But when a non-Muslim shoots somebody THEN you are totally justified in promoting blanket legislation that makes peaceful gun owners, in one way or another, outlaws.  Got it?

----------


## Victory

> How would you change civil rights if they weren't in the "hands of progressives"?


Being a stanch "conservative" I would imagine you are against these laws that are "in the hands of Progressives."

It looks like YOU have some internal reconciliation to do.  Not anybody else.

----------


## sooda

> Being a stanch "conservative" I would imagine you are against these laws that are "in the hands of Progressives."
> 
> It looks like YOU have some internal reconciliation to do.  Not anybody else.


You mean concerning civil rights?

----------


## DonGlock26

> No no no.  You gotta get it right!  When Muslims shoot up an Army base or blow up a sporting event you can't say anything about Muslims.  But when a non-Muslim shoots somebody THEN you are totally justified in promoting blanket legislation that makes peaceful gun owners, in one way or another, outlaws.  Got it?


I guess so. It seems so hypocritical and agenda driven though.

----------


## DonGlock26

Sooda? Where did you go?

----------


## Victory

> I use to think that liberals stood up for women and homosexual rights. Then, I saw them support Muslims over the human
> rights of women and homosexuals. I soon realized that who the Left supports doesn't come for a sense of justice 
> or morality, but rather from a sense of political expediency. By that I mean, they support whatever "victim" group
> that puts the Left at a seemingly political advantage over the Right.


Things liberals are NOT for:

Women (witness the attacks on Sarah Palin)
Blacks (Clarence Thomas)
Homosexuals (witness the support of homosexual killing governments in the Middle East)

Things liberals ARE for:

Liberal women
Liberal blacks
Liberal homosexuals

So it's not about these "oppressed" people at all.  It's all about power.  No surprise, right?

----------


## sooda

> Things liberals are NOT for:
> 
> Women (witness the attacks on Sarah Palin)
> Blacks (Clarence Thomas)
> Homosexuals (witness the support of homosexual killing governments in the Middle East)
> 
> Things liberals ARE for:
> 
> Liberal women
> ...


SaraH Palin certainly doesn't represent all women.. She's tacky and dumb.

----------


## Victory

> SaraH Palin certainly doesn't represent all women.. She's tacky and dumb.


She's a woman.  She doesn't HAVE to "represent" women.  She was attacked by all the biggest so called "pro-woman" liberals.  Your bias is showing again.

----------


## Victory

> I guess so. It seems so hypocritical and agenda driven though.


Well. . .yeah.  Of course it is.  But that never bothered them.

----------

DonGlock26 (01-31-2015)

----------


## sooda

> She's a woman.  She doesn't HAVE to "represent" women.  She was attacked by all the biggest so called "pro-woman" liberals.  Your bias is showing again.


There are women who would make good candidates, Palin is not one of them. Look at her track record and how she killed oil development in Alaska in the last month before she quit the governor's office. She won't run and the GOP won't back her. She's an embarrassment and her objective is celebrity not leadership.

----------


## Victory

> There are women who would make good candidates, Palin is not one of them. Look at her track record and how she killed oil development in Alaska in the last month before she quit the governor's office. She won't run and the GOP won't back her. She's an embarrassment and her objective is celebrity not leadership.


. . .and so she was attacked from the left as being a "bimbo" and further attacked for having a special needs son and a daughter who had a child out of wedlock.

You are one of the most liberal "conservatives" I've met on the web.

----------


## sooda

> . . .and so she was attacked from the left as being a "bimbo" and further attacked for having a special needs son and a daughter who had a child out of wedlock.
> 
> You are one of the most liberal "conservatives" I've met on the web.


Sarah's problem is that she is not bright and airs her intimate family life on facebook.. She's crass and thinks that equates to clever. She has NO leadership potential..

The GOP will not back her.. She's a halfwit.

----------


## Rutabaga

> and that's the only way you feel you can counter the whole post..........





the left has wrought the "race card" dead and meaningless...

nobody cares..

feminism is next.

----------

Victory (01-31-2015)

----------


## Rutabaga

> Which laws are wrong in your eyes?


first off,,affirmative action, hate crime laws..

----------


## DonGlock26

> Well. . .yeah.  Of course it is.  But that never bothered them.


Sooda has been rendered speechless I guess.  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## DonGlock26

> There are women who would make good candidates, Palin is not one of them. *Look at her track record and how she killed oil development in Alaska in the last month before she quit the governor's office.*


What are you talking about?

----------


## Rutabaga

> You mean concerning civil rights?


who fought against the passage of the civil rights legislation?

who brought us segregation via jim crow laws?

[hint:  it was not the republicans.]


now, who formed the KKK,,, killed whites that helped slaves escape to the north?

then there was that whole civil war thingy..


hmmmm?

----------


## sooda

> What are you talking about?


The month she left the governor's office she killed 2 big oil deals with Exxon in Alaska... so she could give each Alaskan an additional $1400 cash.

----------


## DonGlock26

> The month she left the governor's office she killed 2 big oil deals with Exxon in Alaska... so she could give each Alaskan an additional $1400 cash.


Can you back that up with a legitimate source?

----------


## DonGlock26

> who fought against the passage of the civil rights legislation?
> 
> who brought us segregation via jim crow laws?
> 
> [hint:  it was not the republicans.]
> 
> 
> now, who formed the KKK,,, killed whites that helped slaves escape to the north?
> 
> ...


She got shut out on civil rights and has moved on to attacking Sarah Palin. 
It has not been a good day for her here.

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Can you back that up with a legitimate source?


Oh, I can vouch for the veracity of the claim that she forced the oil companies to blink when they went eyeball to eyeball in forcing them to renegotiate. But I can't attest to the timing of said renegotiation of the deal struck by a previous Alaskan gubernatorial administration.

Palin stood up to big oil because the deal they'd made with the State wasn't good for the Alaskan people.

This was a major plus when she was McCain's running mate.

She wanted to show how she would have had the guts and smarts to stand up for Americans once she was in DC.

And that would have been good for all of us.

----------

Canadianeye (06-03-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Oh, I can vouch for the veracity of the claim that she forced the oil companies to blink when they went eyeball to eyeball in forcing them to renegotiate. But I can't attest to the timing of said renegotiation of the deal struck by a previous Alaskan gubernatorial administration.
> 
> Palin stood up to big oil because the deal they'd made with the State wasn't good for the Alaskan people.
> 
> This was a major plus when she was McCain's running mate.
> 
> She wanted to show how she would have had the guts and smarts to stand up for Americans once she was in DC.
> 
> And that would have been good for all of us.


Well as I recall Exxon had held leases for many years and they didn't drill because the ppb was too low.. When they decided to go forward, Palin cancelled them and gave each Alaskan nearly $4000 in cash instead.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Oh, I can vouch for the veracity of the claim that she forced the oil companies to blink when they went eyeball to eyeball in forcing them to renegotiate. But I can't attest to the timing of said renegotiation of the deal struck by a previous Alaskan gubernatorial administration.
> 
> Palin stood up to big oil because the deal they'd made with the State wasn't good for the Alaskan people.
> 
> This was a major plus when she was McCain's running mate.
> 
> She wanted to show how she would have had the guts and smarts to stand up for Americans once she was in DC.
> 
> And that would have been good for all of us.


Blink is one thing. This is rather specific:




> _ she killed 2 big oil deals with Exxon in Alaska._

----------


## DonGlock26

> Well as I recall Exxon had held leases for many years and they didn't drill because the ppb was too low.. When they decided to go forward, Palin cancelled them and gave each Alaskan nearly $4000 in cash instead.


You are wrong. Regurgitating anti-Palin propaganda isn't going to work here.




> *Dispute Settled
> 
> *Point Thomson is coming alive only because the state and leaseholders were able to settle a bitter legal dispute over the field.The state had anticipated production ever since ExxonMobil, in 1977, discovered oil and gas in what’s known as the Thomson Sand reservoir.Several successful wells were drilled, and ExxonMobil submitted plans of development for the field on a nearly annual basis. These never led to actual production, however, with ExxonMobil citing such impediments as the lack of a North Slope natural gas pipeline, the field’s extreme subsurface pressure and other technical challenges, and unfavorable state tax treatment.Growing increasingly impatient, the state’s former oil and gas director, Mark Myers, in September 2005 issued a landmark decision holding ExxonMobil in default, saying the company’s 22nd plan of development was unacceptable.Myers said the company’s long record of nondevelopment and delay had made a “mockery” of its obligations to the state as owner of the oil and gas estate. And he said the absence of a gas line, or the view that Point Thomson wouldn’t be profitable enough, were poor excuses for not producing at least some of the field’s riches—the hydrocarbon liquids.
> 
> Three Alaska governors—Frank Murkowski, Sarah Palin and Sean Parnell—would back the position Myers staked out. The state moved to break up the Point Thomson unit and invalidate the underlying leases, with an eye toward reoffering the acreage for lease.Predictably, ExxonMobil and its partners headed to court to defend an asset worth billions
> 
> .*The conflict had reached the Alaska Supreme Court when the state and the oil companies, on March 29, 2012, reached a settlement* that closed the case and laid out a schedule for phased development at Point Thomson. While the deal does not guarantee production, state officials say the oil companies will lose acreage at Point Thomson if they renege.
> 
> 
> ...

----------


## Victory

> Sarah's problem is that she is not bright . . She's a halfwit.





> . . .and so she was attacked from the left as being a "bimbo"


And now you attack her likewise.  But you call yourself a conservative.




> The GOP will not back her


Most conservatives would call that a plus.  You don't really know what it means to be conservative, do you.

----------


## sooda

> And now you attack her likewise.  But you call yourself a conservative.
> 
> 
> 
> Most conservatives would call that a plus.  You don't really know what it means to be conservative, do you.


Oh please.. Conservatives are not stupid lemmings.

----------


## RMNIXON

The lib got called out on BS!

They are not use to this in comfort forums.

Nice try though................ :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------

DonGlock26 (02-01-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

*ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!*

I just discovered the answer to those who believe the Jihadists are only fighting and waging Jihad in response to our invasion.

This is a game changing answer!

Muslim law states that only DEFENSIVE JIHAD is allowed in the absence of a Caliph!

That is why OBL cited our supposed offenses against Muslims and our actions in Muslim countries.

Because he wasn't allowed, (no Muslim has been allowed) to conduct *offensive* Jihad for over 90 years, the last time there was a Caliph!

BINGO!

http://thepoliticsforums.com/threads...hadist-posters

----------

nonsqtr (01-31-2015)

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> And now you attack her likewise.  But you call yourself a conservative.
> 
> 
> 
> Most conservatives would call that a plus.  You don't really know what it means to be conservative, do you.


She's a conservative MUSLIM.

----------


## Victory

> She's a conservative MUSLIM.


Ohhhhhh!

Well. . .that's entirely different!

----------

Pregnar Kraps (01-31-2015)

----------


## nonsqtr

> Ohhhhhh!
> 
> Well. . .that's entirely different!


That's what I was tryin' to say earlier.  :Wink:

----------


## nonsqtr

> Oh please.. Conservatives are not stupid lemmings.


Let's see if the same is true of Muslims.

----------


## nonsqtr

> *ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!*
> 
> I just discovered the answer to those who believe the Jihadists are only fighting and waging Jihad in response to our invasion.
> 
> This is a game changing answer!
> 
> Muslim law states that only DEFENSIVE JIHAD is allowed in the absence of a Caliph!
> 
> That is why OBL cited our supposed offenses against Muslims and our actions in Muslim countries.
> ...


The Islamic writing states quite clearly that Islam is only meaningful inside the Quraysh. There was never intended to be a "world wide caliphate", that's a perversion of Islam.

----------


## sooda

> Ohhhhhh!
> 
> Well. . .that's entirely different!


Wrong .. WASP and Episcopalian.

----------


## sooda

> The Islamic writing states quite clearly that Islam is only meaningful inside the Quraysh. There was never intended to be a "world wide caliphate", that's a perversion of Islam.


You mean the merchant tribe that controlled Mecca and its Ka'aba and, according to tradition are descended from Ishmael?

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> Wrong .. WASP and Episcopalian.


You'd  have been better off fessing up to being a Muslim.

Now you have opened yourself up to much criticism from those who aren't afraid of WASP Episcopalians!

LOL

Apologist.

And you are on their (REAL Muslim's) 'hit' list for not being Muslim enough.

But you go ahead and sukk up to them and see how well that works for ya.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Pregnar Kraps

> The Islamic writing states quite clearly that Islam is only meaningful inside the Quraysh. There was never intended to be a "world wide caliphate", that's a perversion of Islam.


People like you are targets for the real Muslims who are in ISIS.

 :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

You are not getting it.

Study the life of Muhammad and wherever your life and lifestyle and understanding of Islam is different from his you are shirking your Islamic duty.

You may want your view to be true but the REAL Muslims don't see it that way.

LOL

Foolish.

The second Japanese hostage was beheaded today and he thought his being Japanese would make a difference to ISIS.

HIS ignorance cost him his life.

While non-Muslims make great distinctions between religions, Islam sees them all as Kafirs. Orthodox Christians are Kafirs, Evangelical Christians are Kafirs, Hindus are Kafirs and atheists are Kafirs. ALL KAFIR civilizations must be annihilated. It is Sunna.

http://www.politicalislam.com/the-annihilation-of-civilizations/

----------


## cable2

> *ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!*
> 
> I just discovered the answer to those who believe the Jihadists are only fighting and waging Jihad in response to our invasion.
> 
> This is a game changing answer!
> 
> Muslim law states that only DEFENSIVE JIHAD is allowed in the absence of a Caliph!
> 
> That is why OBL cited our supposed offenses against Muslims and our actions in Muslim countries.
> ...


Shhhhhh you post a link to another page of our own forum to justify your claim...........  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

Shhhhh you post a link to another page of our own forum where you, yourself make other such wide claims.....  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## DonGlock26

> The Islamic writing states quite clearly that Islam is only meaningful inside the Quraysh. There was never intended to be a "world wide caliphate", that's a perversion of Islam.


Actually, to be outside of Islam (submission to Allah) is to be in the House of War. YOU are an infidel, damned, an enemy of Islam, subject to being murdered
 or taken as a prisoner of war.

----------


## sooda

> Actually, to be outside of Islam (submission to Allah) is to be in the House of War. YOU are an infidel, damned, an enemy of Islam, subject to being murdered
>  or taken as a prisoner of war.


There are actually FIVE  houses of Islam...

----------


## DonGlock26

> *ATTENTION EVERYONE!!!*
> 
> I just discovered the answer to those who believe the Jihadists are only fighting and waging Jihad in response to our invasion.
> 
> This is a game changing answer!
> 
> Muslim law states that only DEFENSIVE JIHAD is allowed in the absence of a Caliph!
> 
> That is why OBL cited our supposed offenses against Muslims and our actions in Muslim countries.
> ...



I give you credit for trying to understand the motivation of Islamists. I don't agree with the need of a caliphate to wage offensive warfare.
Traditionally, Islam plays the victim. They are in the House of Peace. It is the infidels that are in the House of War. There is no need for a
new caliphate for this to be believed by them. 

Muslim offensive war is justified in two main ways. First, they are ordered by the koran and hadiths to kill the infidel. The
infidels have not submitted to Allah and are therefore subject to war being made upon them. 

Secondly, when they immigrate to foreign lands, they are ruled over by a law different than Sharia. When they are not allowed to live 
under Sharia, this can be called oppression. Muslims are allowed to lie and kill their "oppressors". 

Basically, they will always be at war with all non-Muslims who have not submitted to Islam or agreed to live under Sharia as second class citizens. 

@Pregnar Kraps

----------


## sooda

2 Major religious divisions 
2.1 Dar al-Islam2.2 Dar al-Harb

3 Other ideological perceptions and international relations 
3.1 Dar al-Hudna3.2 Dar al-'Ahd, Dar al-Sulh3.3 Dar al-Amn3.4 Dar al-Dawa

----------


## DonGlock26

> 2 Major religious divisions 
> 2.1 Dar al-Islam2.2 Dar al-Harb
> 
> 3 Other ideological perceptions and international relations 
> 3.1 Dar al-Hudna3.2 Dar al-'Ahd, Dar al-Sulh3.3 Dar al-Amn3.4 Dar al-Dawa


Do you even read the stuff that you post?




> *Dar al-Hudna[edit]**Dar al Hudna* (Arabic: دار الهدنة _"house of calm"_): *The land of non-believers currently under a truce, which is a respite between wars. A truce is bought by tribute or agreement. If either the harbis break the conditions for the truce, or after ten years (which ever comes first), hostilities are resumed.* Furthermore, only treaties that conform to Islamic prescriptions are valid; if these conditions are not fulfilled, the treaty is worthless.


That is forever war with truces, when Islam is weak.

----------


## sooda

> Do you even read the stuff that you post?


Do you understand mutually agreed upon conditions for truce?

And what are reparations but tribute?



That is forever war with truces, when Islam is weak.[/QUOTE]

----------


## DonGlock26

> Do you understand mutually agreed upon conditions for truce?
> 
> And what are reparations but tribute?
> 
> 
> 
> That is forever war with truces, when Islam is weak.


Yes, do you?

Tribute is different.

A truce is not an end to the forever war. It is a strategic pause.




> *The land of non-believers currently under a truce, which is a respite between wars.*

----------


## sooda

> Yes, do you?
> 
> Tribute is different.
> 
> A truce is not an end to the forever war. It is a strategic pause.


Germany paid reparations after WW2 and they were punitive.. How's that?

----------


## DonGlock26

> Germany paid reparations after WW2 and they were punitive.. How's that?


It's not tribute. Islam is not the allied powers.





> *tribute*
> 
> 
> 
> a stated sum or other valuable consideration paid by one sovereign or state to another* in acknowledgment of subjugation or as the price of peace, security, protection, or the like.*
> 
> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tribute






> *reparation*
> 
> 
> 
> the making of amends for wrong or injury done:_reparation for an injustice._
> 
> 
> 2.Usually, *reparations*. compensation in money, material, labor, etc.,payable by a defeated country to another country or 
> to an individual *for loss suffered during or as a result of war.*
> ...

----------


## sooda

> It's not tribute. Islam is not the allied powers.


Well, if you recall for most of its history Israel paid "tribute" to foreign powers.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Well, if you recall for most of its history Israel paid "tribute" to foreign powers.


That's not reparations. Read the definitions again.

----------


## lizardking

> Ever see an Arab flag?  Of course you have.  Almost without exception there is black, white, green, and red.
> 
> Black = the banner of the Rashidun _Caliphate_
> White = the banner of the Umayyid _Caliphate_
> Green = the banner of the Fatimid _Caliphate_
> Red = the Hashemite Dynasty--leaders of the Arab Revolt
> 
> The flag was suggested by the Allies in WWI as a rally flag for the Arab Revolt that led to the FALSE belief that the Arabs would get their own caliphate after the Ottoman Empire fell.  The Ottomans fell, WWI ended, and the Arabs were stabbed in the back with borders redrawn and dictators installed to keep the peace among disparate societies while keeping the trade routes open.
> So the very flags of the region are dripping with CALIPHATE all over them.  They are a reminder to the west of a broken promise.  They've been there since 1917.  And ISIL is here to see that promise fulfilled.


And what have these Arabian countries been doing for so long from 1917 till nowadays? Why did locals always hate terrorists? Why have radical islamists declared their caliphate just in 2014?
By the way, colors of all over the world countries flags usually mean something too.

----------


## sooda

> And what have these Arabian countries been doing for so long from 1917 till nowadays? Why did locals always hate terrorists? Why have radical islamists declared their caliphate just in 2014?
> By the way, colors of all over the world countries flags usually mean something too.


They simply don't know anything about the Arab states fighting the radicals and terrorists over the years. They are selective in what they choose to remember.. Political agenda is more important than facts and honest assessment..

----------


## DonGlock26

> And what have these Arabian countries been doing for so long from 1917 till nowadays? Why did locals always hate terrorists? Why have radical islamists declared their caliphate just in 2014?
> By the way, colors of all over the world countries flags usually mean something too.


Wow, just wow. They were under British control. That's what they were doing. When the British relinquished control,
they left behind established non-caliphate gov'ts. The cold war and Israel divided the Middle East into different 
camps. Israel became the focus of Arab fury and several wars were fought over the survival of Israel. 

Since, the fall of the USSR, the Muslims have moved from socialism to Islamism as was predicted by  Samuel Huntington. 





> *The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order*
> 
> by Samuel P. Huntington 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/1451628978



Obama has accelerated the trend by supporting the 'Arab Spring' and the Muslim Brotherhood. 
This president has done more to undo the British nation building Westernization of the Arab world than any other
human being. He is without doubt a Sunni sympathizer.

----------


## DonGlock26

> They simply don't know anything about the Arab states fighting the radicals and terrorists over the years. They are selective in what they choose to remember.. Political agenda is more important than facts and honest assessment..


The states over thrown by the Islamists during the 'Arab Spring'? Those gov'ts?

----------


## sooda

> The states over thrown by the Islamists during the 'Arab Spring'? Those gov'ts?


Syria, Libya and Egypt are not the whole Middle East and the US destroyed Iraq so what are you talking about?

----------


## cable2

> * Originally Posted by DonGlock26* 
> _The states over thrown by the Islamists during the 'Arab Spring'? Those gov'ts?_





> Syria, Libya and Egypt are not the whole Middle East and the US destroyed Iraq _so what are you talking about?_


the same anti-Muslim hate rant... attempts to justify that hate*;* towards over 1.6 Billion people*;* to themselves.




> *This president has done more to undo the British nation building Westernization of the Arab world than any other*


British nation building in the Arab world..........  :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

when did that happen, when the Brits and the French redraw the map after WWW1... after they had BS'ed the Arabs they would have their own countries, then still redraw the map to suite themselves... with dear old Churchill bombing and gassing the Kurds when they tried to complain about how unfair that new map was...  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## Victory

> Syria, Libya and Egypt are not the whole Middle East and the US destroyed Iraq so what are you talking about?


After the remaining Middle East countries are overthrown will you then say, "Ohhhhh.  THOSE states!"?  Of course you won't.  I mean, WHO could have seen THAT coming!?

I seem to remember hearing something like that coming from you about the ISIS disaster.  So why should anyone take heed of your normalcy bias now?

----------


## sooda

> After the remaining Middle East countries are overthrown will you then say, "Ohhhhh.  THOSE states!"?  Of course you won't.  I mean, WHO could have seen THAT coming!?
> 
> I seem to remember hearing something like that coming from you about the ISIS disaster.  So why should anyone take heed of your normalcy bias now?


ISIS was born of the disaster of the Iraq war.. Do you know anything about the Middle East?

----------


## Victory

> the same anti-Muslim hate rant... attempts to justify that hate*;* towards over 1.6 Billion people*;* to themselves.


 This is your one trick pony.   :Deadhorse:

----------


## Victory

> ISIS was born of the disaster of the Iraq war.. Do you know anything about the Middle East?


Well, you certainly don't.  Shall I list 'em?

----------


## sooda

> Well, you certainly don't.  Shall I list 'em?


You don't seem to know the difference between the GCC and Libya or Iran or Egypt and how they evolved... and you don't seem to know much about Islam or have any practical experience of how Arabs live and behave.

That's fairly typical of military guys who put in short tours in war zones.

Why do you suppose Mike Sherman was the lead guy in Desert Shield and you weren't??

----------

cable2 (02-05-2015)

----------


## Victory

> you don't seem to know much about Islam or have any practical experience of how Arabs live and behave.


You don't seem to know a lot about a shit load of Arabic issues but you sure do talk like you do.

Tell me again how the Muslim Brotherhood don't support terrorists.

----------


## sooda

> You don't seem to know a lot about a shit load of Arabic issues but you sure do talk like you do.
> 
> Tell me again how the Muslim Brotherhood don't support terrorists.


The Muslim Brotherhood has split a half dozen times since the 1960s.. Read up on their history.. A sound bite won't do.

----------

cable2 (02-02-2015)

----------


## Mainecoons

What does that have to do with whether they support terrorism?

You have this very interesting habit of avoiding having to back up your posts with hard information by changing the topic.  

Let's see your proof that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't involved in terrorism. 

Start by refuting this:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/42...bayt-al-maqdis

----------


## Victory

> The Muslim Brotherhood has split a half dozen times since the 1960s.. Read up on their history.. A sound bite won't do.





> Tell me again how the Muslim Brotherhood don't support terrorists.

----------


## Victory

> How would you change civil rights if they weren't in the "hands of progressives"?


So you're a Progressive!

----------


## DonGlock26

> What does that have to do with whether they support terrorism?
> 
> *You have this very interesting habit of avoiding having to back up your posts with hard information by changing the topic.* 
> 
> Let's see your proof that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't involved in terrorism. 
> 
> Start by refuting this:
> 
> http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/42...bayt-al-maqdis



This squid is squirting ink a lot lately.

----------


## cable2

> * Originally Posted by cable2* 
> _the same anti-Muslim hate rant... attempts to justify that hate; towards over 1.6 Billion people; to themselves._





> This is your one trick pony.


with most extreme right wing members continually supporting each other's Muslim hate speech, their dead pony never did have life as they help each other to drag the dead body up and down most threads [no matter the thread's topic].. 

plus read my posts and you'll understand I oppose nearly every thing that brings joy to the extreme right..

----------


## cable2

> Originally Posted by *Mainecoons* 
> _What does that have to do with whether they support terrorism?
> 
> You have this very interesting habit of avoiding having to back up your posts with hard information by changing the topic. 
> 
> Let's see your proof that the Muslim Brotherhood isn't involved in terrorism. 
> 
> Start by refuting this:
> 
> http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/42...bayt-al-maqdis_





> This squid is squirting ink a lot lately.


that's the wonder of the net... you can and should use a 'Google' to find out if the poster is just 'right wing' blogs to back up their claims.. in fact any claim needs to be 'Google' .. so instead of our 'right wingers' wetting themselves, thinking they have found a way to bash back at the rest of the world or forum members, they could and should do a 'Google' to prove other poster are BS'ing.

it's out there if you care to find it  :Smile:

----------


## DonGlock26

> that's the wonder of the net... you can and should use a 'Google' to find out if the poster is just 'right wing' blogs to back up their claims.. in fact any claim needs to be 'Google' .. so instead of our 'right wingers' wetting themselves, thinking they have found a way to bash back at the rest of the world or forum members, they could and should do a 'Google' to prove other poster are BS'ing.
> 
> it's out there if you care to find it


No, it's better to run them off, when they can't back up their rhetoric.

----------


## DonGlock26

> with most extreme right wing members continually supporting each other's Muslim hate speech, their dead pony never did have life as they help each other to drag the dead body up and down most threads [no matter the thread's topic].. 
> 
> plus read my posts and you'll understand I oppose nearly every thing that brings joy to the extreme right..


Most liberals here are one trick ponies that can only lie and insult members.

----------


## sooda

> Most liberals here are one trick ponies that can only lie and insult members.


The West has been wringing its hands off and on about a new Caliphate since 1945... The vast majority of Muslims don't want one, but YOU know better.

----------


## GreenEyedLady

There are more Shits than Sunni. They believe in the caliphate.

----------


## sooda

[
QUOTE=GreenEyedLady;504513]There are more Shits than Sunni. They believe in the caliphate.[/QUOTE]

Sunni are the majority in Islam.. The Shia are a tiny minority mostly in Iraq and Iran.

----------


## DonGlock26

> The West has been wringing its hands off and on about a new Caliphate since 1945... The vast majority of Muslims don't want one, but YOU know better.


No, the idea of a caliphate was hardly a concern during the cold war. Arabs allying with the USSR was. 

You sure pull a lot of your beliefs out of your ass, don't you? I find it to be pathetic and a sign of intellectual weakness on your part.




> An in-depth poll of four major Muslim countries has found that in all of them large majorities believe that undermining Islam is a key goal of US foreign policy. Most want US military forces out of the Middle East and many approve of attacks on US troops there.
> 
> 
> Most respondents have mixed feelings about al Qaeda. Large majorities agree with many of its goals, but believe that terrorist attacks on civilians are contrary to Islam.
> 
> 
> There is strong support for enhancing the role of Islam in all of the countries polled, through such measures as the imposition of sharia (Islamic law). This does not mean that they want to isolate their societies from outside influences: Most view globalization positively and favor democracy and freedom of religion.
> 
> *Two-thirds would even like to "unify all Islamic counties into a single Islamic state or caliphate."*
> ...

----------

Victory (02-06-2015)

----------


## DonGlock26

> There are more Shits than Sunni. They believe in the caliphate.


It's the other way around and the Sunnis would certainly enjoy a caliphate. It would undo the borders established by
the British.

----------


## GreenEyedLady

Shits are 30% of the muslim population.  The Caliphate which the Shi’a believe is the right of the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt. They believe the "ruler" is to be appointed by Allah, not an election.

----------


## sooda

> No, the idea of a caliphate was hardly a concern during the cold war. Arabs allying with the USSR was. 
> 
> You sure pull a lot of your beliefs out of your ass, don't you? I find it to be pathetic and a sign of intellectual weakness on your part.



The Arabs didn't ally with the USSR although Nasser flirted with them.. When Israel carried out the Lavon Affair the US at first thought it was Arabs and cancelled funding for the Aswan Dam.. The USSR immediately offered to fund it.

----------


## sooda

> Shits are 30% of the muslim population.  The Caliphate which the Shia believe is the right of the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt. They believe the "ruler" is to be appointed by Allah, not an election.


*Actually.. Shia are a little less than 13% of Muslims... Shia don't have IMAMS.. They have Mullahs.*

----------


## GreenEyedLady

Whatever. They want their religion to control government.

----------


## sooda

> Whatever. They want their religion to control government.


Some do... Most Iranians are not too crazy about their government. Iranian women are attractive and stylish and they have long had excellent universities... so when you paint Shia I with a broad brush, it simply means you don't know anything.

----------


## GreenEyedLady

I know their religion promotes violence and killing and enough of them have taken this radical path to have killed tens of thousands of people in the past decade.

----------


## sooda

> I know their religion promotes violence and killing and enough of them have taken this radical path to have killed tens of thousands of people in the past decade.


So your expertise about Arabs, Islam and the Middle East comes from the mainstream media.. Are you a big fan of the MSM?

----------


## GreenEyedLady

Are you a fan of Pallywood?

----------


## sooda

> Are you a fan of Pallywood?



I have watched a couple of their movies.. They are very light and romantic for the most part.. I have friends who are Indian or Punjabi...  Mostly physicians. Why?

----------


## GreenEyedLady

There is a difference between pallywood and Bollywood, you know.

----------


## sooda

> There is a difference between pallywood and Bollywood, you know.



You know, you're right.. I am just not much interested.

----------


## GreenEyedLady

Sure.

----------


## Katzndogz

> There is a difference between pallywood and Bollywood, you know.


Someone who even had a passing knowledge of India or the middle east would know that.  Someone who has no knowledge at all would not and keep bloviating twaddle.

----------

GreenEyedLady (02-06-2015)

----------


## sooda

> Someone who even had a passing knowledge of India or the middle east would know that.  Someone who has no knowledge at all would not and keep bloviating twaddle.



Why would I be interested in India? I made one week long trip to Ceylon 50 years ago..

----------


## DonGlock26

> The Arabs didn't ally with the USSR although Nasser flirted with them.. When Israel carried out the Lavon Affair the US at first thought it was Arabs and cancelled funding for the Aswan Dam.. The USSR immediately offered to fund it.


The Arabs got their armaments from the USSR and used them to try to annihilate Israel for decades. You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. 
The SAM belts and Sagger ATGM's were a key part of their offensive strategy and the Soviets helped them in their war efforts
every step of the way. You are clueless and it shows.

----------


## sooda

> The Arabs got their armaments from the USSR and used them to try to annihilate Israel for decades. You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. 
> The SAM belts and Sagger ATGM's were a key part of their offensive strategy and the Soviets helped them in their war efforts
> every step of the way. You are clueless and it shows.


What Arabs are you talking about? Which countries?

----------


## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

The problem with making blanket statements, even when 99.9 percent true allows posters like the above to attack based on that 1 tenth of 1 percent that is different from the norm.

----------


## DonGlock26

> What Arabs are you talking about? Which countries?


See? You don't know basic Middle East 20th century history. What an idiot!  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## DonGlock26

> The problem with making blanket statements, even when 99.9 percent true allows posters like the above to attack based on that 1 tenth of 1 percent that is different from the norm.


I get a kick out of the Muslim sympathizers telling us what "most" Arabs think. Hilarious!

----------


## RMNIXON

> The Arabs got their armaments from the USSR and used them to try to annihilate Israel for decades. You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. 
> The SAM belts and Sagger ATGM's were a key part of their offensive strategy and the Soviets helped them in their war efforts
> every step of the way. You are clueless and it shows.



We got our first MIG from a defector who landed in Israel. And our "friends" loaned us that aircraft. And we took it a part and put it back together. Then we flew it against our own aircraft at a base I cannot disclose...........

They did that for us!

----------


## sooda

> See? You don't know basic Middle East 20th century history. What an idiot!



Which Arab states were getting weapons from the USSR?

----------


## DonGlock26

> We got our first MIG from a defector who landed in Israel. And our "friends" loaned us that aircraft. And we took it a part and put it back together. Then we flew it against our own aircraft at a base I cannot disclose...........
> 
> They did that for us!


Yep, but certain progressives are completely ignorant of 20th century Middle Eastern history.  :Thumbsup20:

----------


## DonGlock26

> Which Arab states were getting weapons from the USSR?


You seriously don't know?  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

----------


## sooda

> You seriously don't know?


That's why I asked you.. Which Arab states got weapons from the USSR??????????????

----------


## DonGlock26

> That's why I asked you.. Which Arab states got weapons from the USSR??????????????


Wow, that's an amazing level of ignorance coming from someone who is endlessly pontificating about the Middle East, Arabs, and Islam. 

Egypt, Syria, Libya, Jordan, Iraq, and Yemen all received Soviet arms and in many cases military advisors and trainers. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...raeli_conflict

----------


## sooda

> Wow, that's an amazing level of ignorance coming from someone who is endlessly pontificating about the Middle East, Arabs, and Islam. 
> 
> Egypt, Syria, Libya, Jordan, Iraq, and Yemen all received Soviet arms and in many cases military advisors and trainers. 
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...raeli_conflict


Very good.. and you surely remember the Lavon Affair and the resulting Suez crisis?

----------


## DonGlock26

> Very good.. and you surely remember the Lavon Affair and the resulting Suez crisis?


Very good for me and the others. Terrible for you. You must be a complete idiot.

Are you going to Google a timeline of Middle East incidents now?

----------


## Victory

> The West has been wringing its hands off and on about a new Caliphate since 1945... The vast majority of Muslims don't want one, but YOU know better.





> Who could have seen this ISIS disaster coming?





> *Two-thirds would even like to "unify all Islamic counties into a single Islamic state or caliphate."*


You never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, do you.

----------


## Victory

> Who could have seen this ISIS disaster coming?





> We found no WMDs in Iraq.





> The Muslim Brotherhood do not support terrorists.


Wowwwww!  So to all this we can add:




> Which Arab states were getting weapons from the USSR?


Just remember folks, sooda is a conservative.  She knows. . .stuff about the Middle East.

----------


## DonGlock26

> You never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity, do you.


This screen-name will have to be retired and a new one (or several) activated.

----------


## DonGlock26

> Wowwwww!  So to all this we can add:
> 
> 
> 
> Just remember folks, sooda is a conservative.  She knows. . .stuff about the Middle East.



LOL!!!  


She's taking on water.

----------


## cable2

> _The Arabs got their armaments from the USSR_ and used them to try to annihilate Israel for decades. You don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about. 
> The SAM belts and Sagger ATGM's were a key part of their offensive strategy and the Soviets helped them in their war efforts
> every step of the way. You are clueless and it shows.


but that was before the American and British arms makers took over that role and paid larger kick-back to the Arabs so they would buy West... 

as for American backed terrorists, America brought up Russian arms from the 'New Europe' and agave those ex-'new europe' ex-russian arms to their terrorists before America sent the terrorists in to Syria to fight America's proxy against the legal government for them..

----------


## cable2

> I get a kick out of the Muslim sympathizers telling us what "most" Arabs think. Hilarious!


it beats having to hear the endless BS of the extreme right wing, while they go about adding the acts of the 1950's and those of the those actions in the late 1960's and 1970's and pretend those acts of the past some how equal life in the 21st century, even though those arabs gave the mass buying of Russia's arms by the end of 1980's

if you added enough trues to stick together your BS.. dont try to bully such SB on to the rest of us, as it makes yourselves a laughing stock, and we would not want to happen, now would we.

----------


## DonGlock26

> but that was before the American and British arms makers took over that role and paid larger kick-back to the Arabs so they would buy West... 
> 
> as for American backed terrorists, America brought up Russian arms from the 'New Europe' and agave those ex-'new europe' ex-russian arms to their terrorists before America sent the terrorists in to Syria to fight America's proxy against the legal government for them..



 That is a horrible attempt at writing.

----------


## DonGlock26

> it beats having to hear the endless BS of the extreme right wing, while they go about adding the acts of the 1950's and those of the those actions in the late 1960's and 1970's and pretend those acts of the past some how equal life in the 21st century, even though those arabs gave the mass buying of Russia's arms by the end of 1980's
> 
> if you added enough trues to stick together your BS.. dont try to bully such SB on to the rest of us, as it makes yourselves a laughing stock, and we would not want to happen, now would we.


Us? You and mom and your basement?

----------


## GreenEyedLady

speakee de English? Translator please!

----------

DonGlock26 (02-07-2015)

----------


## cable2

> *riginally Posted by cable2* 
> _but that was before the American and British arms makers took over that role and paid larger kick-back to the Arabs so they would buy West... 
> 
> as for American backed terrorists, America brought up Russian arms from the 'New Europe' and agave those ex-'new europe' ex-russian arms to their terrorists before America sent the terrorists in to Syria to fight America's proxy against the legal government for them.._





> That is a horrible attempt at writing.


mayhap, but it's also true and a much needed counter to the BS, I've read on the last couple of pages here..  no truth, no reality and total disregard for history, but pure right wing BS propaganda.

----------


## DonGlock26

> mayhap, but it's also true and a much needed counter to the BS, I've read on the last couple of pages here..  no truth, no reality and total disregard for history, but pure right wing BS propaganda.


Are you Sooda? You seem to be butt sore and as factually inept.

----------


## Victory

> it beats having to hear the endless BS of the extreme right wing, while they go about adding the acts of the 1950's and those of the those actions in the late 1960's and 1970's and pretend those acts of the past some how equal life in the 21st century, even though those arabs gave the mass buying of Russia's arms by the end of 1980's
> 
> if you added enough trues to stick together your BS.. dont try to bully such SB on to the rest of us, as it makes yourselves a laughing stock, and we would not want to happen, now would we.


 :English:

----------

DonGlock26 (02-11-2015)

----------


## RMNIXON

> Us? You and mom and your basement?



I think this is getting fun!  :Smiley20:

----------


## Swedgin

When civilized nations of the world allow it........

----------


## protectionist

> I'm not sure liberals have a problem with being annihilated.  They believe they deserve to be destroyed because of their past transgressions.  What other explanation can there be for their actions hastening the demise of Western civilization?


It's a bewildering question.  Which is the greater mental aberration ?  Islam or Liberalism ?

----------


## protectionist

> That is a horrible attempt at writing.


  Arabic to English done badly.  He could take lessons from Brigitte Gabriel.  And on the politics too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigitte_Gabriel

----------


## Roadmaster

> It's a bewildering question.  Which is the greater mental aberration ?  Islam or Liberalism ?


 Good question, I will go with liberalism.

----------


## Snappo

> It's a bewildering question.  Which is the greater mental aberration ?  Islam or Liberalism ?


Can't we extend that question and put Christianity in there so we have three choices?

----------


## Stonewall

> Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?
> 
> Imagine, if you will, the Vatican expanding its borders to encompass Italy, then Europe, then North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia through bloody warfare.  And imagine inside its borders contraception outlawed, mandatory Sunday mass, and morning and evening prayers enforced.  You can keep your Protestantism but you will be specially taxed.  You get the idea.  Would Catholicism be evil at that point or could we still not judge Catholicism because there would still be a few people like me who don't think any of this is a good idea?
> 
> The same must be asked of Islam.  And if there are any who think that Islam and Caliphate are apples and oranges then let's take a closer look.
> 
> Ever see an Arab flag?  Of course you have.  Almost without exception there is black, white, green, and red.
> 
> 
> ...




Reforming Islam is not gonna happen. It certainly is not gonna happen on it's own. Unfortunately.

Now, you speak of the last 100 years. But, we actually have 1400 hundred years of recorded history. And, when reviewing that history we find very little change in Islam. Victories and defeats, Islam stays the same.

A caliphate or no caliphate. 

The British did make promises to the Arab World, so what? Why are broken promises to Arabs greater than any other broken promise within the British Empire?

Once the British quit the Arab World they easily could have created what ever they wanted. 

The Arabs have not been mistreated any more than any other class of people. 

The Islamic State, ISIS, is not recognized as such. But, that does not mean that they could not have been. These folks went out of their way to de-legitimize  themselves. The United States would have had little trouble with these folks had they acted differently.

----------

Mainecoons (12-12-2015)

----------


## Victory

> Reforming Islam is not gonna happen. It certainly is not gonna happen on it's own. Unfortunately.
> 
> Now, you speak of the last 100 years. But, we actually have 1400 hundred years of recorded history. And, when reviewing that history we find very little change in Islam. Victories and defeats, Islam stays the same.


Yep.  I agree.




> A caliphate or no caliphate.


The existence of a Caliphate is not the issue.  It is the _attempt_ that is the problem whether that is in the form of DAESH chopping off heads in the Levant or subversives here in America trying to pass local ordinances banning dog walking on public sidewalks in front of mosques.  It's all Caliphate.  There is no "no Caliphate."  It's always there.  It is THE thing that needs to be burned from the face of the Earth.




> The British did make promises to the Arab World, so what? Why are broken  promises to Arabs greater than any other broken promise within the  British Empire?


Not saying the Brits should have kept that promise.  Deal with the Caliphate then or deal with it now.  It's all about the Caliphate.




> Once the British quit the Arab World they easily could have created what ever they wanted. 
> 
> The Arabs have not been mistreated any more than any other class of people.


That's not really a concern of mine.  The Caliphate has existed in the mind of Muslims ever since Islam began.  The most current manifestation has festered for the past hundred years.  _That_ is the incarnation that matters.  _That_ is the raison de guerre.  As long as a Caliphate exists or people are trying to bring it into existence, those people need to die.  Killing is a pretty bad "mistreatment."  But like I said, when the issue is the Caliphate, that is not a concern of mine.




> The Islamic State, ISIS, is not recognized as such. But, that does not  mean that they could not have been. These folks went out of their way to  de-legitimize  themselves. The United States would have had little  trouble with these folks had they acted differently.


I'm not talking about ISIS.  I'm talking about something bigger.  CAIR is not ISIS but CAIR needs to be deported or tried and executed for espionage.  The San Bernardino killers were probably not ISIS but they were part of the Caliphate.  Hamas, Hezbollah, Wahhabis, Sharia Law supporters, etc.  They're all the Caliphate.  They are all part of the problem.

----------


## Madison

:Bullshit: Islam is a religion of peace, right?   :Smiley ROFLMAO:    Uh! NO! 

Oh yeah they love America, they love Israel so much!!!  :Riot: 


They don't bang everything they see     :MSM:   :Bananabutt: 

They don't blow bombs anywhere and kill people and animals bcuz they evil! 
 :Violent4:   :Flames:   :Blowup:

----------


## sooda

> Yep.  I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> The existence of a Caliphate is not the issue.  It is the _attempt_ that is the problem whether that is in the form of DAESH chopping off heads in the Levant or subversives here in America trying to pass local ordinances banning dog walking on public sidewalks in front of mosques.  It's all Caliphate.  There is no "no Caliphate."  It's always there.  It is THE thing that needs to be burned from the face of the Earth.
> 
> 
> 
> Not saying the Brits should have kept that promise.  Deal with the Caliphate then or deal with it now.  It's all about the Caliphate.
> ...


About 1924 Ali Husseini declared himself Caliph and was chased off the Arabian Peninsula a couple of weeks later.. In 1979 some clown in Mecca proclaimed himself Mahdi and was shot dead on the spot..

What do you know about Caliphates and the minds of Muslims?

----------


## Stonewall

> About 1924 Ali Husseini declared himself Caliph and was chased off the Arabian Peninsula a couple of weeks later.. In 1979 some clown in Mecca proclaimed himself Mahdi and was shot dead on the spot..
> 
> What do you know about Caliphates and the minds of Muslims?


I know that the world would be a lot better off if Muhammad would have been aborted...

----------

Subdermal (01-10-2016),Victory (01-14-2016)

----------


## Victory

> About 1924 Ali Husseini declared himself Caliph and was chased off the Arabian Peninsula a couple of weeks later..


He shoulda been shot.




> In 1979 some clown in Mecca proclaimed himself Mahdi and was shot dead on the spot..


Now, that's more like it!

All of this only underscores my point:  The Caliphate has existed in the mind of Islam ever since the fall of the Ottomans.  In fact, the Caliphate has always existed in reality or in the motivations and efforts of Muslims.  Any Muslim who does not openly oppose and actively try to exterminate the Caliphate from Islam is part of the Caliphate and part of the problem.

Were you trying to detract from my post?  If so, you succeeded only in hitting yourself in the head with a bat.  Again.  Way to go.




> What do you know about Caliphates and the minds of Muslims?


 :Jackoff:   You need a new shtick.  That one don't work no more.

----------

Montana (01-30-2016)

----------


## Stonewall

> He shoulda been shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's more like it!
> 
> All of this only underscores my point:  The Caliphate has existed in the mind of Islam ever since the fall of the Ottomans.  In fact, the Caliphate has always existed in reality or in the motivations and efforts of Muslims.  Any Muslim who does not openly oppose and actively try to exterminate the Caliphate from Islam is part of the Caliphate and part of the problem.
> 
> Were you trying to detract from my post?  If so, you succeeded only in hitting yourself in the head with a bat.  Again.  Way to go.
> ...




Muslims can never get rid of the Caliphate. It is central. 

Islam is a system that cannot rid itself of ANY tenet. The whole project will collapse. Islam would be destroyed.

----------


## sooda

> He shoulda been shot.
> 
> 
> 
> Now, that's more like it!
> 
> All of this only underscores my point:  The Caliphate has existed in the mind of Islam ever since the fall of the Ottomans.  In fact, the Caliphate has always existed in reality or in the motivations and efforts of Muslims.  Any Muslim who does not openly oppose and actively try to exterminate the Caliphate from Islam is part of the Caliphate and part of the problem.
> 
> Were you trying to detract from my post?  If so, you succeeded only in hitting yourself in the head with a bat.  Again.  Way to go.
> ...


I am saying that the Western media has been dithering about a caliphate since 1945 when in fact, most Muslims do not want a caliphate for reasons that should be obvious.

----------


## Montana

I know they are fu---- twisted


> About 1924 Ali Husseini declared himself Caliph and was chased off the Arabian Peninsula a couple of weeks later.. In 1979 some clown in Mecca proclaimed himself Mahdi and was shot dead on the spot..
> 
> What do you know about Caliphates and the minds of Muslims?

----------


## sooda

> I know they are fu---- twisted


There is NO mention of a caliphate in the Koran..

----------


## QuaseMarco

> There is NO mention of a caliphate in the Koran..


I don't understand ..... why do you make excused for Islam?  It is a sick and twisted religion.

----------


## sooda

> I don't understand ..... why do you make excused for Islam?  It is a sick and twisted religion.


Sorry you get bent over the facts.. There is NO caliphate in the Koran and most Muslims don't want a caliphate.

----------


## Victory

> Muslims can never get rid of the Caliphate. It is central. 
> 
> Islam is a system that cannot rid itself of ANY tenet. The whole project will collapse. Islam would be destroyed.


If that's the case then so be it.  The world can not tolerate a Caliphate.  Burn the Caliphate out of Islam.  If some semblance of Islam survives that can truly live in peace with the world and not even think about lobbying to ban dog walking on public streets in front of mosques then THAT Islam is what we can truly call "reformed."  

If not, if the Caliphate is so intertwined with Islam as to be one with it, then Islam itself will die in the battle.

The key is to fight the Caliphate, not Islam.  If we fight Islam then there will always be thick headed useful idiots among us who will blunt our attacks in the name of "freedom of religion."  But every American and every westerner can join the fight against the Caliphate.

----------


## Victory

> There is NO mention of a caliphate in the Koran..


So what?

There is LOTS of mentions of a Caliphate in Muslims today.  I'm not talking about burning the Koran.  I'm talking about burning the Caliphate.

----------


## Victory

> Sorry you get bent over the facts.. There is NO caliphate in the Koran and most Muslims don't want a caliphate.


You know, if you believe what you write then even you could get behind what I propose.

You keep babbling on about how few Muslims actually want a Caliphate.  Great.  Then if you really believe the Caliphate is a bad thing then the battle you imagine will be a small but necessary one.  But you first have to believe the Caliphate is a bad thing.

Let's see you write something that makes me believe you want to exterminate the Caliphate--everything from ISIS to Hamas supported CAIR to the Muslim Brotherhood infiltration into government to Sharia Law in American Muslim enclaves to dog walking bans in front of mosques.  It's all the Caliphate.  Let's hear you say you want to exterminate the Caliphate.

----------


## Stonewall

> If that's the case then so be it.  The world can not tolerate a Caliphate.  Burn the Caliphate out of Islam.  If some semblance of Islam survives that can truly live in peace with the world and not even think about lobbying to ban dog walking on public streets in front of mosques then THAT Islam is what we can truly call "reformed."  
> 
> If not, if the Caliphate is so intertwined with Islam as to be one with it, then Islam itself will die in the battle.
> 
> The key is to fight the Caliphate, not Islam.  If we fight Islam then there will always be thick headed useful idiots among us who will blunt our attacks in the name of "freedom of religion."  But every American and every westerner can join the fight against the Caliphate.



I do not have any problem with there being a Caliphate. The Ottoman Empire was the last Caliphate, it was workable as long as you had an upper hand.

Today. These idiots went off the deep end.

But, I have no trouble with there being a Caliphate in the world. And, I will tell you why.

It offers a certain compliance within the Muslim World, to the Caliphate. In other words... we may avoid disparate groups running around causing terror.  Muslims will be under a single authority.

If we are attacked from a sector of the Islamic World, we attack the Caliphate. 

It is like if North Dakota would attack Canada... The American Government would take care of the problem... We'd see new elections in N.D...

----------


## Victory

> I do not have any problem with there being a Caliphate. The Ottoman Empire was the last Caliphate, it was workable as long as you had an upper hand.
> 
> Today. These idiots went off the deep end.
> 
> But, I have no trouble with there being a Caliphate in the world. And, I will tell you why.
> 
> It offers a certain compliance within the Muslim World, to the Caliphate. In other words... we may avoid disparate groups running around causing terror.  Muslims will be under a single authority.
> 
> If we are attacked from a sector of the Islamic World, we attack the Caliphate. 
> ...


Ehhh. . .no.

We have a Caliphate now.  DAESH.  And the attacks continue.  The only reason the Ottoman Empire didn't expand further into the West is because it had been corrupt and shrinking for a long time.  Hence the dream for an Arabic (not Turkish) Caliphate.  And this is all pre-oil, pre-nukes, pre-mustard gas, pre-super industrialized warfare.  Now give that fucked up empire hungry mentality some real money in terms of oil, some real technology like nukes, missiles, and satellites, and all the world is Allah's to conquer.  A real and established Caliphate will not produce peace.

The Caliphate must die.

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## Stonewall

> Ehhh. . .no.
> 
> We have a Caliphate now.  DAESH.  And the attacks continue.  The only reason the Ottoman Empire didn't expand further into the West is because it had been corrupt and shrinking for a long time.  Hence the dream for an Arabic (not Turkish) Caliphate.  And this is all pre-oil, pre-nukes, pre-mustard gas, pre-super industrialized warfare.  Now give that fucked up empire hungry mentality some real money in terms of oil, some real technology like nukes, missiles, and satellites, and all the world is Allah's to conquer.  A real and established Caliphate will not produce peace.
> 
> The Caliphate must die.




The ideology must die. No doubt. 

It will eventually...

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## Victory

> I am saying that the Western media has been dithering about a caliphate since 1945 when in fact, most Muslims do not want a caliphate for reasons that should be obvious.


Do you want to exterminate the Caliphate?  It's a simple question that is independent of the size or number of supporters.

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## sooda

> Do you want to exterminate the Caliphate?  It's a simple question that is independent of the size or number of supporters.


You mean destroy Daesh? Of course.. They are a menace and the Arabs don't consider them a Caliphate.. A Caliph has to be elected in Shoura... and its really a thing of the past unless it is viewed as an honorarium of some sort. 

Jihad causes poverty an illiteracy.. Its not good for any of the Arabs.

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## Victory

> You mean destroy Daesh?


Why are you being deliberately obtuse again?

I mean everything else I've mentioned in this entire thread plus DAESH.

I mean CAIR, Sharia enclaves within the US, Muslim ordinances that seek to progressively infiltrate US law with Sharia law (pork eating, dog walking, Muhammad drawing etc. ordinances), Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, Taliban, etc.

THAT is "The Caliphate."  All of it.  Since you are being obstinate again I'll break it down for you in the finest detail:

Do you want all aliens in Sharia enclaves in the US deported and those US citizens arrested under the Alien and Sedition Act, Espionage Act or other similar appropriate law?  Yes or no?

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## sooda

> Why are you being deliberately obtuse again?
> 
> I mean everything else I've mentioned in this entire thread plus DAESH.
> 
> I mean CAIR, Sharia enclaves within the US, Muslim ordinances that seek to progressively infiltrate US law with Sharia law (pork eating, dog walking, Muhammad drawing etc. ordinances), Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, Boko Haram, Taliban, etc.
> 
> THAT is "The Caliphate."  All of it.  Since you are being obstinate again I'll break it down for you in the finest detail:
> 
> Do you want all aliens in Sharia enclaves in the US deported and those US citizens arrested under the Alien and Sedition Act, Espionage Act or other similar appropriate law?  Yes or no?


You are tiresome.. You don't even know the definition of Caliphate.

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## Victory

> You are tiresome.. You don't even know the definition of Caliphate.


So that's a "no."  The question was simple:  Deport all aliens and arrest all US citizens in Sharia enclaves in the US?  You said "no."  You approve of a "government within a government" that is, Sharia enclaves within the US should be allowed to practice Sharia law.  That's a problem.  That's the Caliphate at work.

You don't even know the method of the Caliphate.

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## Stonewall

> You mean destroy Daesh? Of course.. They are a menace and the Arabs don't consider them a Caliphate.. A Caliph has to be elected in Shoura... and its really a thing of the past unless it is viewed as an honorarium of some sort. 
> 
> Jihad causes poverty an illiteracy.. Its not good for any of the Arabs.



Jihad causes poverty amongst the victims of Jihad. The Muslims, like robbers, poverty not so much....

At least that is the goal of Jihad. Originally.

In the end, 1400 years later... yep, not so good for the Arabs... but, they had a good run.

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## The Boss

> You are tiresome.. You don't even know the definition of Caliphate.


You're a liar.  Now you're defending Sharia law.

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## sooda

> Jihad causes poverty amongst the victims of Jihad. The Muslims, like robbers, poverty not so much....
> 
> At least that is the goal of Jihad. Originally.
> 
> In the end, 1400 years later... yep, not so good for the Arabs... but, they had a good run.


Absolutely... Jihad causes poverty.. Muslims know this .. That's why they hate these Jihadis and extremists. 

Its like sh*tting in your own nest.. The kids can't go to school or get immunizations.. literacy collapses and polio returns.

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## The Boss

> Absolutely... Jihad causes poverty.. Muslims know this .. That's why they hate these Jihadis and extremists. 
> 
> Its like sh*tting in your own nest.. The kids can't go to school or get immunizations.. literacy collapses and polio returns.


Terrorists are the true believers.  They're acting exactly like Mohammad.

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## sooda

> So that's a "no."  The question was simple:  Deport all aliens and arrest all US citizens in Sharia enclaves in the US?  You said "no."  You approve of a "government within a government" that is, Sharia enclaves within the US should be allowed to practice Sharia law.  That's a problem.  That's the Caliphate at work.
> 
> You don't even know the method of the Caliphate.


Sharia law does not supersede US law.. The only proposal has been arbitration in civil matters between Muslims. Not unlike Beit Din which has been in the US for 250 years. And, any settlement agreed upon cannot break US law.

So don't worry about that.

Most Muslims don't want a Caliphate because the last one was such a dud that much of the Muslim world stagnated..  The only ones who do want a Caliphate want an oil check every month.. The don't want the oil producing countries to reinvest in healthcare, education, clean water etc.

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## The Boss

> Sharia law does not supersede US law.. The only proposal has been arbitration in civil matters between Muslims. Not unlike Beit Din which has been in the US for 250 years. And, any settlement agreed upon cannot break US law.
> 
> So don't worry about that.
> 
> Most Muslims don't want a Caliphate because the last one was such a dud that much of the Muslim world stagnated..  The only ones who do want a Caliphate want an oil check every month.. The don't want the oil producing countries to reinvest in healthcare, education, clean water etc.


That's a lie.  The purpose of Sharia law is to eventually become the law of the land like every Muslim country where Muslims are the majority.

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## sooda

> That's a lie.  The purpose of Sharia law is to eventually become the law of the land like every Muslim country where Muslims are the majority.


That's what the ignorant hysterics in East TN claim..

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## The Boss

> That's what the ignorant hysterics in East TN claim..


No, that's Islam.  I was wrong about you.  You're just another disingenuous lying corrupt leftist.

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## sooda

> Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?
> 
> Imagine, if you will, the Vatican expanding its borders to encompass Italy, then Europe, then North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia through bloody warfare.  And imagine inside its borders contraception outlawed, mandatory Sunday mass, and morning and evening prayers enforced.  You can keep your Protestantism but you will be specially taxed.  You get the idea.  Would Catholicism be evil at that point or could we still not judge Catholicism because there would still be a few people like me who don't think any of this is a good idea?
> 
> The same must be asked of Islam.  And if there are any who think that Islam and Caliphate are apples and oranges then let's take a closer look.
> 
> Ever see an Arab flag?  Of course you have.  Almost without exception there is black, white, green, and red.
> 
> 
> ...


The West has been yammering about a Caliphate since the 1940s. At one time they were talking about whether it would be Farouk or the Mufti or Ibn Saud..

There is NOTHING in the Koran about a Caliphate...

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## Jen

We (the world)usually stop nations from expanding their borders to gobble up neighboring coutries.
Not Islam.
It's a political system that presents as a religion and we don't stop religions from expanding.
I think that's the difference.

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## sooda

> We (the world)usually stop nations from expanding their borders to gobble up neighboring coutries.
> Not Islam.
> It's a political system that presents as a religion and we don't stop religions from expanding.
> I think that's the difference.


What Muslims countries have expanded their borders and gobbled up neighboring countries?

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## The Boss

> What Muslims countries have expanded their borders and gobbled up neighboring countries?


The Palestinians.  The Islamist militants want Israel destroyed.

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## sooda

> The Palestinians.  The Islamist militants want Israel destroyed.


The Palestinians have always lived in Palestine.. The Jews arrived from Europe doubling the population of Palestine in 15 years..

Are you also for illegal Mexican immigration?

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## Jen

> What Muslims countries have expanded their borders and gobbled up neighboring countries?


You missed the entire point of my post and I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through that now.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> What Muslims countries have expanded their borders and gobbled up neighboring countries?



Its not for lack of trying.  The vast majority of wars currently in progress entail Muslim extremist in some fashion.  You don't need to "gobble up" a country if you do it from within.

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> The Palestinians have always lived in Palestine.. The Jews arrived from Europe doubling the population of Palestine in 15 years..
> 
> Are you also for illegal Mexican immigration?


There is no such place as Palestine.

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## Midgardian

> No, that's Islam.  I was wrong about you.  You're just another disingenuous lying corrupt leftist.


Just the other day he claimed to be a "conservative".

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The Boss (03-30-2016)

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## sandhurstdelta

> You're a liar.  Now you're defending Sharia law.


Holy Thread Resurrection Batman !!

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## The Boss

> The Palestinians have always lived in Palestine.. The Jews arrived from Europe doubling the population of Palestine in 15 years..
> 
> Are you also for illegal Mexican immigration?


Israel is the best hope for the Muslims in that area.  Their Muslim rulers don't care about them except for using them to hurt Israel.  Israel is the humane one here.

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## sandhurstdelta

> There is no such place as Palestine.


 @Dr. Felix Birdbiter ,

Moses in 1400 BCE (according to Josephus Flavius) called the land there PHILISTIA.

The ancient Egyptians in 1150 BCE called it PELESET.

The ancient Assyrians in 800 BCE called it PILISTU.

Herodotus in ancient Greece in 500 BCE called it PALAISTINE.

The Romans in 50 BCE called it PALAESTINA.

The name probably comes from the Philistines who first settled there in prehistory.

The name is from a Hebrew root meaning "invaders".

The original Philistines were probably migrating Greeks.

Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath are prehistoric bronze age ancient cities there, all Philistine.

Because Moses wrote about them before the crossing of the Jordan by Joshua, it is clear that the Palestinians were there before the Hebrews ever arrived.

A little remediate World History is in store for you I think.

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## The Boss

> Just the other day he claimed to be a "conservative".


She.  I've dealt with this liar on forums before.  I knew who she was when she said she lived in Saudi Arabia before

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## sandhurstdelta

> We (the world)usually stop nations from expanding their borders to gobble up neighboring coutries.
> Not Islam.
> It's a political system that presents as a religion and we don't stop religions from expanding.
> I think that's the difference.


Nation building is frowned upon by the modern human rights movement, and by the UN, but it does still occasionally happen.

Russia recently created South Ossetia which was duly recognized by Nicaragua, Nauru, Venezuela, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Transnistria -- Russian client nations.

A slew of Balkan nations were recently re-created as a result of the breakup of Yugoslavia as well.

So it happens from time to time.

I am guessing the Kurds will get their own nation state carved out of northeast Iraq soon.

Iraq was an artificial British creation for the lands around Mesopotamia after WW1 carved out of the Turk Empire (Ottoman).

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## Dr. Felix Birdbiter

> @Dr. Felix Birdbiter ,
> 
> Moses in 1400 BCE (according to Josephus Flavius) called the land there PHILISTIA.
> 
> The ancient Egyptians in 1150 BCE called it PELESET.
> 
> The ancient Assyrians in 800 BCE called it PILISTU.
> 
> Herodotus in ancient Greece in 500 BCE called it PALAISTINE.
> ...


Fuck you very much

Are you related to Sooda?

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## Jeffrey

> Fuck you very much
> 
> Are you related to Sooda?


Wow, that is not your usual style to be vulgar.  I think the poster has presented some credible evidence to support the claim that Palestine exists.  

A more modern account of  the region puts some 40,000 or so Jewish people in that area that did not leave when most of the Jewish people left in a diaspora, one of many for them. The area was some sort of protectorate by the British after WW I if I remember correctly, and the modern state of Israel was carved out of the best lands in the area by international fiat.  In other words, the Pals got the short end of the stick.

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## Roadmaster

We know it did by the Bible. Joel chapter 3

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## Jen

> Nation building is frowned upon by the modern human rights movement, and by the UN, but it does still occasionally happen.
> 
> Russia recently created South Ossetia which was duly recognized by Nicaragua, Nauru, Venezuela, Abkhazia, Nagorno-Karabakh, and Transnistria -- Russian client nations.
> 
> A slew of Balkan nations were recently re-created as a result of the breakup of Yugoslavia as well.
> 
> So it happens from time to time.
> 
> I am guessing the Kurds will get their own nation state carved out of northeast Iraq soon.
> ...


Muslims don't create nations the way the world usually approves of doing it.  They do it in the ways that usually take us to war.  They go in and fill an existing nation with enough of their own people to usurp the government and take it over with a fight but not as big of a fight as if they marched in with weapons and flew over with bombs.  They are doing that now in Europe with success.  They are trying to fill  the USA with Muslims too and much of our government is infiltrated with Muslims.  

If they can't take the USA strongly enough, irrevocably enough,  by the time Obama leaves office they will have lost their chance............... unless Hillary becomes President.  If Hillary takes office, she, being somewhat more feeble than we've been led to believe......  will immediately resume her lengthy nap-taking days and leave Huma Abedin of the Muslim Brotherhood to deal with the presidency and.............  the USA will become a Muslim Caliphate.

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Northern Rivers (03-30-2016)

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## Trinnity

Threadban Notice
Dr. Felix Birdbiter and Jeffrey are BOTH threadbanned. Don't address them in any way.

----------


## Dan40

> Islam is a religion of peace, right?  Well, opinions vary.  I've known peaceful Muslims and I've known some nut jobs.  The real question is:  When do the nut jobs become so numerous in Islam such that the general character of Islam assumes that of the nut jobs?
> 
> Imagine, if you will, the Vatican expanding its borders to encompass Italy, then Europe, then North Africa, the Middle East and West Asia through bloody warfare.  And imagine inside its borders contraception outlawed, mandatory Sunday mass, and morning and evening prayers enforced.  You can keep your Protestantism but you will be specially taxed.  You get the idea.  Would Catholicism be evil at that point or could we still not judge Catholicism because there would still be a few people like me who don't think any of this is a good idea?
> 
> The same must be asked of Islam.  And if there are any who think that Islam and Caliphate are apples and oranges then let's take a closer look.
> 
> Ever see an Arab flag?  Of course you have.  Almost without exception there is black, white, green, and red.
> 
> 
> ...


*When does "Islam" equal "Caliphate?"*



*24/7/365*

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## The Boss

12931008_481058845423453_8325115279080432712_n.jpg

----------

miss9ball (07-03-2016),Moo (04-05-2016),Victory (04-05-2016)

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## Victory

> The West has been yammering about a Caliphate since the 1940s. At one time they were talking about whether it would be Farouk or the Mufti or Ibn Saud..
> 
> There is NOTHING in the Koran about a Caliphate...


Why are you repeating yourself?  You said exactly the same damn thing up in the thread.  Nobody bought it then.  Nobody will buy it now.

----------


## Victory

> The Palestinians have always lived in Palestine.. The Jews arrived from Europe doubling the population of Palestine in 15 years..
> 
> Are you also for illegal Mexican immigration?


No.  The Jews arrived at about 1800 BC long before "Palestinians" existed.  We've gone over this before!

So since you're all about "who got there first" I'm glad to see you're all on board with kicking the Palestinians out.

----------


## Victory

> You mean destroy Daesh? Of course.. They are a menace and the Arabs don't consider them a Caliphate.. A Caliph has to be elected in Shoura... and its really a thing of the past unless it is viewed as an honorarium of some sort. 
> 
> Jihad causes poverty an illiteracy.. Its not good for any of the Arabs.


No.  I'm not talking about DAESH.  I'm talking about the Caliphate.  Any effort to establish a Caliphate from dog walking bans in front of mosques to DAESH need to be fought.

Let me put a finer point on it because you refuse to answer a simple question:

Do you oppose dog walk bans on public sidewalks in front of mosques?

----------


## miss9ball

Any belief system that encourages violence should not be considered or treated as a religion IMO. Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks about that a lot. Sure, Christianity and Judaism and other religions have had their day of war, but the reformed versions are theoretically non-violent. Islam isn't theoretically non-violent. I know, try telling that to Obummer, but I guess for the rest of us-with common sense. There's absolutely no reason Islam should be treated as a religion until it undergoes a reformation. And for the "peaceful" Muslims or whatever, unless they're standing up and shunning these people-jihadists-organizing against them, throwing them out of ALL their communities and mosques, taking up arms again them in large scale, until that day, there seems no reason not to consider them in agreement with what must be the actual theology of this belief system. I think we must, especially as Americans, define religion as something that is completely non-violent. Islam has yet to become that, if it ever will. Jusssayin

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## sooda

> Any belief system that encourages violence should not be considered or treated as a religion IMO. Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks about that a lot. Sure, Christianity and Judaism and other religions have had their day of war, but the reformed versions are theoretically non-violent. Islam isn't theoretically non-violent. I know, try telling that to Obummer, but I guess for the rest of us-with common sense. There's absolutely no reason Islam should be treated as a religion until it undergoes a reformation. And for the "peaceful" Muslims or whatever, unless they're standing up and shunning these people-jihadists-organizing against them, throwing them out of ALL their communities and mosques, taking up arms again them in large scale, until that day, there seems no reason not to consider them in agreement with what must be the actual theology of this belief system. I think we must, especially as Americans, define religion as something that is completely non-violent. Islam has yet to become that, if it ever will. Jusssayin


Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become a propagandist... She knows what her readers want to hear..

Most Muslims do not follow Hassan al Banna or Sayyid Qubt.. and most Muslims are NOT violent or radical.

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## Midgardian

> and most Muslims are NOT violent or radical.


Then they aren't Muslims.

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## miss9ball

"Ayaan Hirsi Ali has become a propagandist... She knows what her readers want to hear..

Most Muslims do not follow Hassan al Banna or Sayyid Qubt.. and most Muslims are NOT violent or radical."

Yes, I agree she has gotten a bit that way, probably more than a bit. But I do like her essential message and that it comes from personal experience. 

No, I mean I did state that not all of them are openly radical, but the conditions I mentioned are my opinion of what they would need to do to have their religion treated as such. As it stands, it is-as Ms. Ali has said, a political theory of conquest.

----------

