# Stuff and Things > HISTORY, veterans & science >  Analysis Reveals Heart-related Side Effects of Hydroxychloroquine

## Fall River

Analysis reveals heart-related side effects of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine | EurekAlert! Science News

"Hydroxychloroquine [HCQ] and chloroquine were associated with higher rates of various cardiovascular problems, including life threatening heart rhythm events, heart failure, and damage to the heart muscle itself (termed cardiomyopathy)." 

"Moreover, we show how these adverse events carry high risks for severe outcomes including death, even with standard doses of the drugs."

My comment: The reason I easily found this link is because I looked, as opposed to Sean Hannity who I recently heard on the radio still promoting Hydroxychloroquine.





You can observe a lot just by watching - Yogi berra

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## Fall River

Hydroxy is ineffective against covid-19

"Further evidence demonstrating the lack of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) was detailed in a new randomized, multicenter, blinded, placebo-controlled study published in JAMA."

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## Oceander

Hydroxquinone affects the so-called complement part of the immune system.  If one has already been hospitalized with cytokine-storm effects from COVID-19, then it is already too late to get a benefit out of hydroxyquinone.

This mechanism of hydroxyquinone has been known for years and years.  So someone who is dosing people who have already suffered injury from COVID-19's impact on the complement system is - intentionally in my mind - creating a false-flag effort to create "fake" results in order to accomplish a foreordained political agenda.

It's a little bit like giving antibiotics to a COVID-19 sufferer and then claiming that antibiotics don't work.  Duh.

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darroll (06-10-2021),Foghorn (06-10-2021),MisterVeritis (06-10-2021),Rutabaga (06-10-2021),WarriorRob (06-10-2021)

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## Foghorn

It's pretty much the same news we were reading a year ago.

The list of potential side effects is long and heart-related issues are way down on the list on how commonly they occur.  Setting aside Lupus and other similar medical ailments the main idea with this drug was to start taking it two weeks before you traveled into the jungle so you don't catch malaria.

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darroll (06-10-2021),Oceander (06-10-2021),WarriorRob (06-10-2021)

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## tiny1

> Analysis reveals heart-related side effects of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine | EurekAlert! Science News
> 
> "Hydroxychloroquine [HCQ] and chloroquine were associated with higher rates of various cardiovascular problems, including life threatening heart rhythm events, heart failure, and damage to the heart muscle itself (termed cardiomyopathy)." 
> 
> "Moreover, we show how these adverse events carry high risks for severe outcomes including death, even with standard doses of the drugs."
> 
> My comment: The reason I easily found this link is because I looked, as opposed to Sean Hannity who I recently heard on the radio still promoting Hydroxychloroquine.
> 
> 
> ...


Sheesh.  Propagandist.
We have been using Hydroxochloroquine since the 1940s.  Generally safe and effective.  Yes, if combined with other drugs, and if it you are over 60, you can see some vision related symptoms.  But for heart issues, very rare.  
Why do you leftists always spread the shit so deep?  I guess you favor vaccines, huh?  I guess the Regeneron Cocktail is dangerous too?
It's people like you who have my Mom Scared shitless to come outdoors.  I resent your lemming-like nonsense.

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MisterVeritis (06-10-2021),Rutabaga (06-10-2021),WarriorRob (06-10-2021)

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## Traddles

Yes, HCQ can have side effects. Welcome to real life medicine. *HOWEVER*, HCQ has been in use in the US and around the world for decades and is on WHO's list of essential medicines. IOW, doctors know how to use it safely.

As for effectiveness against Covid:

*Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin therapy at a higher dose improved survival by nearly 200% in ventilated COVID patients*

Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin therapy at a higher dose improved survival by nearly 200% in ventilated COVID patients





> Treatment options have been limited in the ongoing coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. Earlier optimism regarding immunomodulatory drugs such as azithromycin (AZM) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) seemed to be undermined by results of large interventional trials.
> 
> However, a fascinating new study posted to the medRxiv* preprint server (not peer-reviewed), suggests that such disappointment may have been both premature and unwarranted, based on a re-analysis of over 250 patients on invasive mechanical ventilation (IMV) during the first two months of the pandemic.
> 
> Using computational modeling, the use of weight-adjusted HCQ and AZM appears to be associated with a more than 100% increase in survival, _without a clear correlation with ECG abnormalities_.


My emphasis. I'm neither one who thinks HCQ is a silver bullet that could have prevented all Covid deaths nor a denier that HCQ, used properly, can be a good treatment.

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Oceander (06-10-2021),Rutabaga (06-10-2021),WarriorRob (06-10-2021)

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## Fall River

> Hydroxquinone affects the so-called complement part of the immune system.  If one has already been hospitalized with cytokine-storm effects from COVID-19, then it is already too late to get a benefit out of hydroxyquinone.
> 
> This mechanism of hydroxyquinone has been known for years and years.  So someone who is dosing people who have already suffered injury from COVID-19's impact on the complement system is - intentionally in my mind - creating a false-flag effort to create "fake" results in order to accomplish a foreordained political agenda.
> 
> It's a little bit like giving antibiotics to a COVID-19 sufferer and then claiming that antibiotics don't work.  Duh.



But Duh.....no link to prove your point?

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## Traddles

> Hydroxquinone affects the so-called complement part of the immune system.  If one has already been hospitalized with cytokine-storm effects from COVID-19, then it is already too late to get a benefit out of hydroxyquinone.
> 
> This mechanism of hydroxyquinone has been known for years and years.  So someone who is dosing people who have already suffered injury from COVID-19's impact on the complement system is - intentionally in my mind - creating a false-flag effort to create "fake" results in order to accomplish a foreordained political agenda.
> 
> It's a little bit like giving antibiotics to a COVID-19 sufferer and then claiming that antibiotics don't work.  Duh.


Whether intentionally or from ignorance, the early "studies" that included a significant % of people on death's door were poorly designed. HCQ's major strength is in hindering the invasion of cells by, in this case, SARS-CoV-2 viruses. People on death's door are already fully infected - possibly well on their way to being clear of the virus - but are being killed by Covid's pneumonia, which is particularly nasty and persistent. Treating such people with HCQ, especially if by HCQ only, is like the proverbial closing of the barn door after the horses have escaped.

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## Rutabaga

> But Duh.....no link to prove your point?



just type "how long has hydroxyquinone been successfully used in the medical field". into your search engine...


there might be links to articles about it.


[you can just c&p the query i wrote]

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WarriorRob (06-10-2021)

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## Fall River

> Yes, HCQ can have side effects. Welcome to real life medicine. *HOWEVER*, HCQ has been in use in the US and around the world for decades and is on WHO's list of essential medicines. IOW, doctors know how to use it safely.
> 
> As for effectiveness against Covid:
> 
> *Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin therapy at a higher dose improved survival by nearly 200% in ventilated COVID patients*
> 
> Hydroxychloroquine + Azithromycin therapy at a higher dose improved survival by nearly 200% in ventilated COVID patients
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely, it's not a silver bullet, not even close. The study was observational, not peer reviewed, and not published in any journal. *And only a little over 1% of the study subjects were clinically diagnosed with COVID-19.*

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## Fall River

> Sheesh.  Propagandist.
> We have been using Hydroxochloroquine since the 1940s.  Generally safe and effective.  Yes, if combined with other drugs, and if it you are over 60, you can see some vision related symptoms.  But for heart issues, very rare.  
> Why do you leftists always spread the shit so deep?  I guess you favor vaccines, huh?  I guess the Regeneron Cocktail is dangerous too?
> It's people like you who have my Mom Scared shitless to come outdoors.  I resent your lemming-like nonsense.


Again, Duh, no link, no proof.  Just emotional blather.

Uncivilized posts don't deserve a civilized reply.

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## Rutabaga

:Geez:

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## Fall River

> just type "how long has hydroxyquinone been successfully used in the medical field". into your search engine...
> 
> 
> there might be links to articles about it.
> 
> 
> [you can just c&p the query i wrote]



I didn't find anything. But it may have been used for other purposes along the way. I'm just interested in COVID-19.

And years ago, if someone died of heart disease they may not have known it was a side effect of hydroxychloroquine.

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## Fall River

> 


If he can call me a propagandist, I can say, Duh.   

At least I'm not name calling, but I guess you didn't notice that.

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Rutabaga (06-10-2021)

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## Dan40

> And years ago, if someone died of heart disease they may not have known it was a side effect of hydroxychloroquine.


Do you have a link to that?

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Rutabaga (06-10-2021)

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## Traddles

> just type "how long has hydroxyquinone been successfully used in the medical field". into your search engine...
> 
> 
> there might be links to articles about it.
> 
> 
> [you can just c&p the query i wrote]


Meh, just be lazy and look it up in W'pedia, Hydroxychloroquine - Wikipedia . It was approved for use in the US in 1955. For some reason historical data for when it was created isn't given but it probably took years, not weeks, to gain FDA approval. So HCQ has probably been around longer than I have.

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Rutabaga (06-10-2021)

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## Rutabaga

> Meh, just be lazy and look it up in W'pedia, Hydroxychloroquine - Wikipedia . It was approved for use in the US in 1955. For some reason historical data for when it was created isn't given but it probably took years, not weeks, to gain FDA approval. So HCQ has probably been around longer than I have.



oh, i used the query i suggested the op use.

it came back with hundreds of thousands of links, articles etc. all about it.

but she didnt find anything...

i find that odd.

cause everybody else who uses the same search, word for word, that i suggested, will find more links than they can count...

but the op didnt find anything...

time for another  :Geez:

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## Rutabaga

:Smiley ROFLMAO: 


> Do you have a link to that?

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## Rutabaga

here, lets see what comes up from the query i c&p'd from my own post...

*"how long has hydroxyquinone been successfully used in the medical field"



*now if you just highlight the above, a box will open to take you to your search...


anybody want to see if it results in anything, as the op claimed she could not find anything about it.

and btw, note many talk directly about covid.


theres a lesson here, dont be obtuse...of couse there are hundreds of thousands of links/articles to that exact, word for word query,,,,, about covid as well...

that why you got the  :Geez: thats "geez" you must think we're stupid.

dont be so defensive, your well liked here, by me and others..but you dont take direction/correction very well...

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## Fall River

> Do you have a link to that?


I said they *may* not have known. I didn't say they didn't know. And that's because my link above states it was just learned recently that heart disease can be a serious side effect.

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## Fall River

> Meh, just be lazy and look it up in W'pedia, Hydroxychloroquine - Wikipedia . It was approved for use in the US in 1955. For some reason historical data for when it was created isn't given but it probably took years, not weeks, to gain FDA approval. So HCQ has probably been around longer than I have.


Aspirin has been around for a long time too but can have serious side effects.

how safe is aspirin - Google Search

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## Fall River

> oh, i used the query i suggested the op use.
> 
> it came back with hundreds of thousands of links, articles etc. all about it.
> 
> but she didnt find anything...
> 
> i find that odd.
> 
> cause everybody else who uses the same search, word for word, that i suggested, will find more links than they can count...
> ...



 :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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## Rutabaga

i tried...obtuse it is...

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## Fall River

> i tried...obtuse it is...


You're the one who's obtuse mister smarty pants.  Go read my first two posts: The subject of this thread is very specific. It's about COVID-19 and hydroxychloroquine.

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## WarriorRob

They said if this drug was taken early on when you first get the symptoms it's very affective, if you take it when you are on deaths door it's to late. This is Big Pharma Propaganda, it's a cheap drug that's very affective when taken early, Big Pharma just wants to make money.

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Rutabaga (06-10-2021)

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## darroll

I took Quine for many years.
Used to drink Gin and tonic.
And for mosquitoes in foreign countries.
My problem was the wires going to my heart shorted out.
I also don't know if being shocked for many years in my line of work caused this. Or Radio Freq.

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Fall River (06-11-2021),Foghorn (06-11-2021)

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## Rutabaga

> You're the one who's obtuse mister smarty pants.  Go read my first two posts: The subject of this thread is very specific. It's about COVID-19 and hydroxychloroquine.



 :Geez:

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## Rutabaga

the only one shilling for the pharmaceutical companies is one who claims to hold stock in them...


see, thats why we call them "shills"...


as with everything, just follow the money...

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Foghorn (06-11-2021)

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## Rutabaga

> Aspirin has been around for a long time too but can have serious side effects.
> 
> how safe is aspirin - Google Search


whats that got to do with covid, smarty pants?

 :Smiley20:

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## fmw

The problem with the OP's post is that the article has an agenda.  The number reported cases is minuscule.  There is no comparison of the issues with chloroquine and without.  The article is designed to scare people off.  That may be the right thing to do.  I don't know.  But it is the wrong way to do it.

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Foghorn (06-11-2021),Rutabaga (06-11-2021)

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## Foghorn

Now the CDC is holding an emergency meeting to discuss heart issues with the Pfizer and Moderna shots.

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Rutabaga (06-11-2021)

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## Fall River

> They said if this drug was taken early on when you first get the symptoms it's very affective, if you take it when you are on deaths door it's to late. This is Big Pharma Propaganda, it's a cheap drug that's very affective when taken early, Big Pharma just wants to make money.


It would be a big help if you would say who "they" are.  And what exactly did "Big Pharma Propaganda" consist of?  Do you have anything to back that up or is it just a conspiracy theory?

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## Fall River

> the only one shilling for the pharmaceutical companies is one who claims to hold stock in them...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see, thats why we call them "shills"...
> 
> 
> as with everything, just follow the money...



Sure, I bet you really think what you just said means something.  And you're off topic again, as usual.

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## Rutabaga

> Sure, I bet you really think what you just said means something.  And you're off topic again, as usual.



yes, it means something...and i dont take direction from shills.


anything else i can help you with?


i'm here to help. :Thumbsup20:

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## Fall River

> whats that got to do with covid, smarty pants?



He was saying Hydroxychloroquine has been around for a long time as if that implies something about its value, effectiveness, or safety.  And I was illustrating that just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's safe.  And hydroxychloroquine is part of the topic of this thread.

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## Rutabaga

> He was saying Hydroxychloroquine has been around for a long time as if that implies something about its value, effectiveness, or safety.  And I was illustrating that just because something has been around for a long time doesn't mean it's safe.  And hydroxychloroquine is part of the topic of this thread.


thats nice,,,i was being facetious...

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## JustPassinThru

But that wonderful "VACCINE" is SO safe...

CDC To Hold  After 100s Suffer Heart Inflammation Following COVID Vaccines | ZeroHedge

After thousands of KNOWN dead of this quack experiment, and tens of thousands more deaths covered or blamed on other things (like HCQ) the CDC is now in full-scale coverup mode.  They're pretending to address the issue.

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## nonsqtr

Heart inflammation?

The chip scrapes against the aorta?

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## Fall River

> The problem with the OP's post is that the article has an agenda.  The number reported cases is minuscule.  There is no comparison of the issues with chloroquine and without.  The article is designed to scare people off.  That may be the right thing to do.  I don't know.  But it is the wrong way to do it.


Who said the number of *reported cases* is minuscule?   what is minuscule?  

As far as reported cases go, heart disease is so rampant in our society it may not be reported more because people assume it's just run-of-the-mill heart disease and don't see a connection with HCQ.

How do you know the report is designed to scare people off?

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## Fall River

> Now the CDC is holding an emergency meeting to discuss heart issues with the Pfizer and Moderna shots.


Off topic, that's why Rutabaga thanked you for it.  :Smiley20:

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## JustPassinThru

No, it's not off-topic.

Even as the reports of deaths "days after an unrelated vaccination" the political quack-doctors are busily vilifying the proven virus cures.

The Little Lie that grew.  I've had enough of their lying and their covering-up.

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Rutabaga (06-11-2021),tiny1 (06-11-2021)

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## Fall River

> But that wonderful "VACCINE" is SO safe...
> 
> CDC To Hold  After 100s Suffer Heart Inflammation Following COVID Vaccines | ZeroHedge
> 
> After thousands of KNOWN dead of this quack experiment, and tens of thousands more deaths covered or blamed on other things (like HCQ) the CDC is now in full-scale coverup mode.  They're pretending to address the issue.


I like your enthusiasm but this thread is about hydroxychloroquine and COVID-19.  It's not about a vaccine.  I assume you know how to start a thread to talk about vaccines, right?

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## Fall River

> No, it's not off-topic.
> 
> Even as the reports of deaths "days after an unrelated vaccination" the political quack-doctors are busily vilifying the proven virus cures.



If you're so angry, what's stopping you from starting a new thread to put forth your message?

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## JustPassinThru

You just went on IGNORE.

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Fall River (06-11-2021)

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## tiny1

Fall River




> Again, Duh, no link, no proof.  Just emotional blather.


Like I care what you think. I don't care if you ever get proof.  I would be remiss to expect you to accept any proof.  Nah, I am at work, and don't have time to play your stupid "Link/proof" games.




> Uncivilized posts don't deserve a civilized reply.


That wasn't uncivilized, genius, you just didn't like what I said.  I can damn sure get uncivilized, if you wish.  Nothing in that post wasn't true.
I don't know why people have been giving you a pass on your BS, but I am calling you on it.  You try to dispute the truth with opinionated nonsense, and claim it as fact.  You seem to think a link replaces validity. For every source you can claim HCQ is bad, I can produce one that says it isn't.  If you were a Conservative Patriot, I'd be glad to show you the way, but a committed Leftist?  Nah, no desire to teach or show you anything.  You'll just  deny, obfuscate and opine some Bull shit opinion.  Not worth the trouble.

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Rutabaga (06-11-2021)

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## East of the Beast

@Fall River I have one question for you....How does Big Pharma's cock taste?

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## Rutabaga

> If you're so angry, what's stopping you from starting a new thread to put forth your message?




can i start a thread about paid shills?

do you promise to be honest?

i've already caught you in 1 lie...lie to me once, and everything you say afterwards is suspect...

do i need to post your lie?

do you want to just admit it now, and we can move on?


TELL THE TRUTH AND SHAME THE DEVIL!!!! :Smiley20:

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## Dan40

> Aspirin has been around for a long time too but can have serious side effects.
> 
> how safe is aspirin - Google Search


Are you saying aspirin should be banned?  Rx only?  What meds have NO side affects?  Wht meds can be safely  abused?  HCQ has been around longer than you have with fewer side affects than you.  Evidently liberalism, leftist thinking, democratism, causes irreparable stupidity.

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## Rutabaga

we're a tough crowd... :Cool20: 



"i want to thank you all for coming here tonight, be safe, dont drive drunk or run with scissors, remember, we're here all week, AND DONT FORGET TO TIP YOUR SERVERS!!!"


 :Smiley20:

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## Fall River

> Fall River
> 
> Like I care what you think. I don't care if you ever get proof.  I would be remiss to expect you to accept any proof.  Nah, I am at work, and don't have time to play your stupid "Link/proof" games.
> 
> That wasn't uncivilized, genius, you just didn't like what I said.  I can damn sure get uncivilized, if you wish.  Nothing in that post wasn't true.
> I don't know why people have been giving you a pass on your BS, but I am calling you on it.  You try to dispute the truth with opinionated nonsense, and claim it as fact.  You seem to think a link replaces validity. For every source you can claim HCQ is bad, I can produce one that says it isn't.  If you were a Conservative Patriot, I'd be glad to show you the way, but a committed Leftist?  Nah, no desire to teach or show you anything.  You'll just  deny, obfuscate and opine some Bull shit opinion.  Not worth the trouble.


More emotional blather.

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## Fall River

> @Fall River I have one question for you....How does Big Pharma's cock taste?


What would make you think of something like that?  It's amazing what people spend their time thinking about.

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## Fall River

> Are you saying aspirin should be banned?  Rx only?  What meds have NO side affects?  Wht meds can be safely  abused?  HCQ has been around longer than you have with fewer side affects than you.  Evidently liberalism, leftist thinking, democratism, causes irreparable stupidity.


No, and no, all meds have side effects.  

About stupidity and the other stuff, stop projecting.

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## Dan40

> No, and no, all meds have side effects.  
> 
> About stupidity and the other stuff, stop projecting.


No projecting here,  just reading the intentionally useful idiocy liberalism requires you to post.  Why you liberals choose  personal stupidity over observing the obvious is inexplicable.  Are you now asserting YOU have been available longer than HCQ?

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Rutabaga (06-11-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> No, it's not off-topic.
> 
> Even as the reports of deaths "days after an unrelated vaccination" the political quack-doctors are busily vilifying the proven virus cures.
> 
> The Little Lie that grew.  I've had enough of their lying and their covering-up.


Agreed. Half of em are bullshit artists and the other half are just ignorant.

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## nonsqtr

> More emotional blather.


Looks like you just proved @tiny1 right.  :Grin:

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## tiny1

> Looks like you just proved @tiny1 right.


And the leftist trying to tell us we're too emotional? :Thinking:   He's a putz.  This is why I will suffer no Corruptocrats.  He is either crooked like those he defends, or he is as Stupid as a Football Bat.
He's got to be seeing his Liberal Oz going down in flames.  He's gotta see that the Traitors are running scared.  He's trying to solidify his place in the Recurring Stimulus Payment lane.  He wants links?  Let him go find his own.  I'd rather run face first into a Fire Hydrant, than to help a Dumbocrat learn anything.  Heck, they know zilch about Civics, but boy can they fit a Condom on a Cucumber, real fast.
What a Maroon.

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Rutabaga (06-11-2021)

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## Rutabaga

> And the leftist trying to tell us we're too emotional?  He's a putz.  This is why I will suffer no Corruptocrats.  He is either crooked like those he defends, or he is as Stupid as a Football Bat.
> He's got to be seeing his Liberal Oz going down in flames.  He's gotta see that the Traitors are running scared.  He's trying to solidify his place in the Recurring Stimulus Payment lane.  He wants links?  Let him go find his own.  I'd rather run face first into a Fire Hydrant, than to help a Dumbocrat learn anything.  Heck, they know zilch about Civics, but boy can they fit a Condom on a Cucumber, real fast.
> What a Maroon.


kids say the darnedest things... :Cool20:

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tiny1 (06-12-2021)

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## East of the Beast

> What would make you think of something like that?  It's amazing what people spend their time thinking about.


Obviously you haven't worked around pipeliners....But you do understand the gist of it,right?

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## Captain Kirk!

> Obviously you haven't worked around pipeliners....But you do understand the gist of it,right?


Leftists always say crap like that. Fuck 'em all.

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## Fall River

> No projecting here,  just reading the intentionally useful idiocy liberalism requires you to post.  Why you liberals choose  personal stupidity over observing the obvious is inexplicable.  Are you now asserting YOU have been available longer than HCQ?


If you're expecting me to lower myself to your level of discourse, you're seriously deluded.  So carry on with the vacuous insults. Who cares?   :Smiley ROFLMAO: 


And that goes for all the others.  I'm not going to waste my time answering each one separately.  Have fun.

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Analysis reveals heart-related side effects of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine | EurekAlert! Science News
> 
> "Hydroxychloroquine [HCQ] and chloroquine were associated with higher rates of various cardiovascular problems, including life threatening heart rhythm events, heart failure, and damage to the heart muscle itself (termed cardiomyopathy)." 
> 
> "Moreover, we show how these adverse events carry high risks for severe outcomes including death, even with standard doses of the drugs."
> 
> My comment: The reason I easily found this link is because I looked, as opposed to Sean Hannity who I recently heard on the radio still promoting Hydroxychloroquine.
> 
> 
> ...


you should know better than to defend this on this forum.  I have no idea if it is right or wrong. Doesn't matter here though and you should know that. 
I just scanned over the thread and I see that you are now labeled a leftist and shill for big pharma.  :Yawn: 
Happens every time... here.
Every F'in thread.

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## Dan40

> If you're expecting me to lower myself to your level of discourse, you're seriously deluded.  So carry on with the vacuous insults. Who cares?  
> 
> 
> And that goes for all the others.  I'm not going to waste my time answering each one separately.  Have fun.


You'd need serious gear to climb up to my level of discourse.  I posted that HCQ has been available longer than you've been alive and you post that I'm projecting.  I post facts, you post lies, simple as that.  You won't answer some questions because you cannot.

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## patrickt

> you should know better than to defend this on this forum.  I have no idea if it is right or wrong. Doesn't matter here though and you should know that. 
> I just scanned over the thread and I see that you are now labeled a leftist and shill for big pharma. 
> 
> 
> Happens every time... here.
> Every F'in thread.


I'm curious. After lying about the number of people with COVID, the number of deaths from COVID, the symptoms of COVID, and the manner of transmission for COVID, why would anyone still believe them?

I do wonder why in many decades of use for malaria this heart issue was never discovered until the folks who've been lying to us suddenly needed it.

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> *I'm curious*. After lying about the number of people with COVID, the number of deaths from COVID, the symptoms of COVID, and the manner of transmission for COVID, why would anyone still believe them?
> 
> I do wonder why in many decades of use for malaria this heart issue was never discovered until the folks who've been lying to us suddenly needed it.


Maybe I'm just too used to collecting and analyzing data that is sometimes conflicting and yet I must still make a decision regarding what course of action to take. But I didn't read the OP to say never use the stuff. I read what looked like a data point. And then the rest was just people afraid that the data point might refute their point of view. 

But I didn't see that.  I saw only a warning whose severity was similar to what appears on virtually all medicines. 

Personally, I would have taken the stuff had I come down with the disease.

And as far as why it was poo pooed, you dont need to be curious to know. Its because Trump mentioned it and because- had it been effective and used - it could have stopped the lock downs and other shenanigans that facilitated the election fraud. And yet....all that is probably true but does not diminish the side effects of that or any other medicine.

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## Dan40

> Maybe I'm just too used to collecting and analyzing data that is sometimes conflicting and yet I must still make a decision regarding what course of action to take. But I didn't read the OP to say never use the stuff. I read what looked like a data point. And then the rest was just people afraid that the data point might refute their point of view. 
> 
> But I didn't see that.  I saw only a warning whose severity was similar to what appears on virtually all medicines. 
> 
> Personally, I would have taken the stuff had I come down with the disease.
> 
> And as far as why it was poo pooed, you dont need to be curious to know. Its because Trump mentioned it and because- had it been effective and used - it could have stopped the lock downs and other shenanigans that facilitated the election fraud. And yet....all that is probably true but does not diminish the side effects of that or any other medicine.


Meds have side effects ----- so does FOOD.  To point  out that HCQ, available and successful longer than any poster here has lived,  has some side effects is just more liberal lying scare tactics.  You may not be fed up with liberal liars, but I am.

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JustPassinThru (06-12-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Meds have side effects ----- so does FOOD.  To point  out that HCQ, available and successful longer than any poster here has lived,  has some side effects is just more *liberal lying scare tactics*.  You may not be fed up with liberal liars, but I am.


I wasn't scared when I heard HCQ had side effects.  Not sure why you were.  As you said.. side effects. It is useful to know what kind of side effects HCQ has so as to better enable an informed decision. In any case, I wasn't scared.  Sorry to hear that you were.

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## Dan40

> I wasn't scared when I heard HCQ had side effects.  Not sure why you were.  As you said.. side effects. It is useful to know what kind of side effects HCQ has so as to better enable an informed decision. In any case, I wasn't scared.  Sorry to hear that you were.


Stick it in your ear.  Being tired of liberal bullshit is not being scared.  No fear of anything liberals say, it is ALL lies.

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Stick it in your ear.  Being tired of liberal bullshit is not being scared.  No fear of anything liberals say, it is ALL lies.


In your perfect world, would the side effects of HCQ be hidden from the public? 

We know they tried to create fear in the use of HCQ. And we know why.  But to fear the disclosure of valid information.... and to label anyone who makes that disclosure a liberal, progressive, lefty, whatever is paranoia. Really. And it would not serve us well if we ever had to defend each others' backs.

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## Dan40

> In your perfect world, would the side effects of HCQ be hidden from the public? 
> 
> We know they tried to create fear in the use of HCQ. And we know why.  But to fear the disclosure of valid information.... and to label anyone who makes that disclosure a liberal, progressive, lefty, whatever is paranoia. Really. And it would not serve us well if we ever had to defend each others' backs.


Not paranoia, reality.  Liberals lie constantly and fall river repeats their lies.  Truth would be to cite HCQ side affects WITH the smal percentage of occourence.  And cite its many decades of success and experience.  The liberal left did not do that, just the opposite.

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## Dan40

> In your perfect world, would the side effects of HCQ be hidden from the public? 
> 
> We know they tried to create fear in the use of HCQ. And we know why.  But to fear the disclosure of valid information.... and to label anyone who makes that disclosure a liberal, progressive, lefty, whatever is paranoia. Really. And it would not serve us well if we ever had to defend each others' backs.


What perfect world? I have always lived in reality and it has been good and bad, never remotely perfect.  Perhaps you could explain the perfect world for the forum

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Not paranoia, reality.  Liberals lie constantly and fall river repeats their lies.  Truth would be to cite HCQ side affects WITH the smal percentage of occourence.  And cite its many decades of success and experience.  The liberal left did not do that, just the opposite.


I guess he thought the intellectually curious people would read the article he linked. 


Here's the thing.... if the lying left creates a mistrust of ALL data, then they have won. We need to do our own research and make our own decisions independently of their fear mongering. Now you have a point that their fear mongering and misinformation was so intense that they caused some medical providers to decide to not administer the drug. But if a medical provider is so influenced by the media instead of their own due diligence into the available data.. then you have to question their qualifications to make any decision at all.

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## Dan40

> I guess he thought the intellectually curious people would read the article he linked. 
> 
> 
> Here's the thing.... if the lying left creates a mistrust of ALL data, then they have won. We need to do our own research and make our own decisions independently of their fear mongering. Now you have a point that their fear mongering and misinformation was so intense that they caused some medical providers to decide to not administer the drug. But if a medical provider is so influenced by the media instead of their own due diligence into the available data.. then you have to question their qualifications to make any decision at all.


THEY have not won.  They are creating a world that THEY cannot support.  And I just saw a doctor that should not be allowed to flip burgers.

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