# Stuff and Things > COVID & VACCINES >  Why did we become so vulnerable to viruses?

## Fall River

You can blame it all on the agricultural revolution which lead to a greater and greater population density.

Hunting and gathering tends to limit the number of people to about a few per square mile,

whereas agriculture typically has anywhere from 10 to 20 times more people per square mile.  

Also, agriculture allowed for the development of small towns at first and then bigger and bigger cities.

Then came the industrial revolution, skyscrapers, elevators, and mass transit in the big cities.

Globalization and world trade intensified the problem. Viruses could be spread fast around the world. 

Rush used to say population density is nothing to worry about. In 2019 the population was 7.674 billion.  I believe he said we could go to 20 billion.  No problem.

The problem is: The higher the density of people, the greater the opportunity for viruses to spread.

No wonder Buck and Clay always focus on New York City. It's the largest city in the U.S.  Followed by L.A. and Chicago.

Therefore, it stands to reason restrictions would be greater in large cities with high density populations.

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Quark (09-27-2021)

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## ruthless terrier

the viruses we can usually survive. the mass psychosis caused by government and media .. maybe not so much.

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12icer (09-27-2021),Fall River (09-28-2021),Foghorn (09-27-2021),Oceander (09-27-2021),phoenyx (09-27-2021),Quark (09-27-2021)

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## nonsqtr

Is there any evidence backing up this view?

Are there numbers for Covid in rural areas?

My theory is people in the boonies tend to travel farther.

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12icer (09-27-2021),Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## Foghorn

When big government embezzled the education system we became vulnerable to everything.

At least we are all victims if that's any consolation.

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Fall River (09-28-2021),Quark (09-27-2021)

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## phoenyx

> You can blame it all on the agricultural revolution which lead to a greater and greater population density.
> 
> Hunting and gathering tends to limit the number of people to about a few per square mile,
> 
> whereas agriculture typically has anywhere from 10 to 20 times more people per square mile.  
> 
> Also, agriculture allowed for the development of small towns at first and then bigger and bigger cities.
> 
> Then came the industrial revolution, skyscrapers, elevators, and mass transit in the big cities.
> ...


You are assuming that the current mainstream views regarding viruses are correct. There is an alternative viewpoint, which I have pointed out elsewhere:
The Truth About Contagion: Exploring Theories of How Disease Spreads

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Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> You are assuming that the current mainstream views regarding viruses are correct. There is an alternative viewpoint, which I have pointed out elsewhere:
> The Truth About Contagion: Exploring Theories of How Disease Spreads


There's always an alternative viewpoint.

Some people still believe the earth is flat.

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Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## phoenyx

> There's always an alternative viewpoint.
> 
> Some people still believe the earth is flat.


They do, but I don't think anyone -here- believes the earth is flat. I think we can agree that whether or not some people think the earth is flat doesn't really matter in terms of its effects on society. Now, if some people believe that viruses are doing things that they aren't doing, this can affect everyone on earth, in the form of things like quarantines and the like. This is why I think it's much more important to look into issues regarding the nature of viruses.

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## Quark

> Is there any evidence backing up this view?
> 
> Are there numbers for Covid in rural areas?
> 
> My theory is people in the boonies tend to travel farther.


Actually, Montana is a good case to back up that view. Montana is a land mass of a little over 147,000 square miles with a population of a little over a 1,000,000 people. We average about 7 people per square miles. The most severe Wuhan flu cases and deaths happened in the counties and cities with the highest population densities and the lowest in the least population densities. You are right though that modern travel has a huge impact on spreading viruses and we saw that in Montana.

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Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## Quark

> They do, but I don't think anyone -here- believes the earth is flat. I think we can agree that whether or not some people think the earth is flat doesn't really matter in terms of its effects on society. Now, if some people believe that viruses are doing things that they aren't doing, this can affect everyone on earth, in the form of things like quarantines and the like. This is why I think it's much more important to look into issues regarding the nature of viruses.


True but it is a fact that population densities does have a sufficient affect on spreading viruses and even bacteria. We see that here in Montana in everything from people to animals. 

No matter what we learn about viruses or bacteria you simply cannot get away from population densities.

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Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## teeceetx

Air travel is certainly a big virus spreader.  I recall many times boarding an airplane in fine health, and getting sick within 2 days after travel.  Certainly not a scientific observation, but I'm sticking to it.

Busses and subways/trains are yet another big spreader.

I was rarely sick with a cold or flu before I commuted into Manhattan for 12 years.  And business air travel during that period added to that.  After no longer working in the city, and traveling by car to work, I once again rarely got sick.

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Fall River (09-28-2021),Quark (09-27-2021)

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## Quark

> Air travel is certainly a big virus spreader.  I recall many times boarding an airplane in fine health, and getting sick within 2 days after travel.  Certainly not a scientific observation, but I'm sticking to it.
> 
> Busses and subways/trains are yet another big spreader.
> 
> I was rarely sick with a cold or flu before I commuted into Manhattan for 12 years.  And business air travel during that period added to that.  After no longer working in the city, and traveling by car to work, I once again rarely got sick.


Yup, yup, and yup. Mass transit especially with sealed air condition system.

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## phoenyx

> True but it is a fact that population densities does have a sufficient affect on spreading viruses and even bacteria. We see that here in Montana in everything from people to animals. 
> 
> No matter what we learn about viruses or bacteria you simply cannot get away from population densities.


There are other things that tend to go with high population densities- things like pollution of the air via carbon dioxide and chemicals, as well as more EMF radiation from more cell phone towers. Also, food is generally worse quality as people are further from the source of food and tend to eat more processed foods. I believe that all of these things are the main reasons that there is generally more disease in high population areas. I fully acknowledge that bacteria can infect or grow beyond what is reasonable in some, but based on what I have been reading and seeing from the likes of Dr. Sam Bailey, I've come to believe that even there, infections are opportunistic in nature- that is, like a lion culling a heard of the weak and sick.

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Fall River (09-28-2021),Quark (09-27-2021)

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## Quark

> There are other things that tend to go with high population densities- things like pollution of the air via carbon dioxide and chemicals, as well as more EMF radiation from more cell phone towers. Also, food is generally worse quality as people are further from the source of food and tend to eat more processed foods. I believe that all of these things are the main reasons that there is generally more disease in high population areas. I fully acknowledge that bacteria can infect or grow beyond what is reasonable in some, but based on what I have been reading and seeing from the likes of Dr. Sam Bailey, I've come to believe that even there, infections are opportunistic in nature- that is, like a lion culling a heard of the weak and sick.


All that is true but it still goes back to population density as the real culprit. We see this all the time in Montana. Montana is a good laboratory for studying population density and it's effects because of the human population and all the animals including our wildlife and fishery diversity.

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Fall River (09-28-2021)

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## phoenyx

> All that is true but it still goes back to population density as the real culprit. We see this all the time in Montana. Montana is a good laboratory for studying population density and it's effects because of the human population and all the animals including our wildlife and fishery diversity.


I don't know about that. I mean, I can see this with very -large- parasites, things like bedbugs for instance, but when it comes to smaller things, I think that people's health is the most important factor. I've come to believe that people just don't understand how important health is. I think that's the main reason that India, that has an enormous population, was doing pretty good initially. Then they got a bunch of lockdowns, people were being beaten just to trying to get out of their homes to get food and well, when you're not eating properly, it stands to reason that your immune system would falter and then all of a sudden they get hit with Covid hard.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Fall River

> the viruses we can usually survive. the mass psychosis caused by government and media .. maybe not so much.



Well, yes, that would be the attitude of those, like you and me, who are healthy.  What about the 650,000 who didn't survive.   :Dontknow:

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## Oceander

> Well, yes, that would be the attitude of those, like you and me, who are healthy.  What about the 650,000 who didn't survive.


They were let down by the government the same as the rest of us.  Even assuming that number bears any relation to reality - it doesn't, but we'll pretend - the spending should have been focusing on figuring out why such a very small minority of people have such a serious reaction to the virus, and then addressing that particular weakness, not killing the rest of us - yes, the government killed a lot more than just 650k through the shut downs - economically and literally by imposing a general lockdown and stupid masking and vaccination mandates.

But beyond that, people die, all the time, it's the nature of reality.  What matters is whether government (in this case) is affirmatively taking steps to kill others who would not have otherwise died.  It's more of a first-do-no-harm type principle, which was utterly ignored in this case, and is still being ignored.

The tip of the tail of your 650k should not have been allowed to wag the dog of the rest of us 300+ million because, god forbid, if they didn't take any precautions for themselves, they might get dead.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## ruthless terrier

> Well, yes, that would be the attitude of those, like you and me, who are healthy.  What about the 650,000 who didn't survive.



you have to consider the underlying cause of death. at least I do. no answers beyond that. but I do believe that a virus (not this one) may eventually be the end of the human race.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> You can blame it all on the agricultural revolution which lead to a greater and greater population density.
> 
> Hunting and gathering tends to limit the number of people to about a few per square mile,
> 
> whereas agriculture typically has anywhere from 10 to 20 times more people per square mile.  
> 
> Also, agriculture allowed for the development of small towns at first and then bigger and bigger cities.
> 
> Then came the industrial revolution, skyscrapers, elevators, and mass transit in the big cities.
> ...


Did you really mean "*WHY*" ?

I'm guessing you meant "how". 

Here is an interesting passage from a wiki article. 



> Although scientific interest in them arose because of the diseases they cause, most viruses are beneficial. They drive evolution by transferring genes across species, play important roles in ecosystems and are essential to life.


Social history of viruses - Wikipedia

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## Call_me_Ishmael

Maybe God's admonition against eating certain animals had a protective purpose by keeping certain types of viruses away from us.

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## Fall River

> Is there any evidence backing up this view?
> 
> Are there numbers for Covid in rural areas?
> 
> My theory is people in the boonies tend to travel farther.


Some links say density matters and some say no. It seems to depend on the study and how it was conducted.  Spreading of COVID-19: Density matters

But from an overall historical perspective, as I mentioned above, it does matter, in my opinion. 

Here's an example: Plague Helped Bring Down Roman Empire, Graveyard Suggests | Live Science

I read that large cities, throughout history were periodically devastated and abandoned. The few who survived took up farming in rural areas.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Fall River

> You are assuming that the current mainstream views regarding viruses are correct. There is an alternative viewpoint, which I have pointed out elsewhere:
> The Truth About Contagion: Exploring Theories of How Disease Spreads


Thanks, I can't believe I read the whole thing. As interesting as it was, I don't think it holds up to what we have been experiencing. For example, in Feb. of 2020, I had the misfortune of sitting next to a man who had a bad cough. Within a couple of days I had the same cough, along with chills, fever, body aches and loss of appetite. Did I contract his exosomes? Are exosomes contagious? No. 

When there's a pandemic with millions of people around the world with the same symptoms and a million or so dying, is that a pandemic of exosomes?

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phoenyx (09-29-2021)

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## Fall River

> Actually, Montana is a good case to back up that view. Montana is a land mass of a little over 147,000 square miles with a population of a little over a 1,000,000 people. We average about 7 people per square miles. *The most severe Wuhan flu cases and deaths happened in the counties and cities with the highest population densities and the lowest in the least population densities. You are right though that modern travel has a huge impact on spreading viruses and we saw that in Montana.*


That's a fair assessment. Yes, modern society is more mobile, so the virus moves around when people move around.

But at least farmers don't use mass transit, and don't have to ride a crowded elevator every day to get to work.  And they generally don't have a lot of contact with people in the course of their workday.  City workers may often have lunch in a crowded restaurant farmers are much more likely to eat all their meals at home.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Fall River

> There are other things that tend to go with high population densities- things like pollution of the air via carbon dioxide and chemicals, as well as more EMF radiation from more cell phone towers. Also, food is generally worse quality as people are further from the source of food and tend to eat more processed foods. I believe that all of these things are the main reasons that there is generally more disease in high population areas. I fully acknowledge that bacteria can infect or grow beyond what is reasonable in some, but based on what I have been reading and seeing from the likes of Dr. Sam Bailey, I've come to believe that even there, infections are opportunistic in nature- that is, like a lion culling a heard of the weak and sick.


In my opining post, I was not excluding other factors. Of course, poor lifestyles can intensify the outcome of a pandemic.

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phoenyx (09-29-2021),Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Fall River

> All that is true but it still goes back to population density as the real culprit. We see this all the time in Montana. Montana is a good laboratory for studying population density and it's effects because of the human population and all the animals including our wildlife and fishery diversity.


Yes, animals are part of the population. Animal feces contain bacteria and viruses, so farmers need to practice cleanliness in their day-to-day operations.

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## Fall River

> They were let down by the government the same as the rest of us.  Even assuming that number bears any relation to reality - it doesn't, but we'll pretend - the spending should have been focusing on figuring out why such a very small minority of people have such a serious reaction to the virus, and then addressing that particular weakness, not killing the rest of us - yes, the government killed a lot more than just 650k through the shut downs - economically and literally by imposing a general lockdown and stupid masking and vaccination mandates.


What the government should or shouldn't do is another subject for another board other than the science board.




> But beyond that, people die, all the time, it's the nature of reality.  What matters is whether government (in this case) is affirmatively taking steps to kill others who would not have otherwise died.  It's more of a first-do-no-harm type principle, which was utterly ignored in this case, and is still being ignored.


Oops, there's the government again.




> The tip of the tail of your 650k should not have been allowed to wag the dog of the rest of us 300+ million because, god forbid, if they didn't take any precautions for themselves, they might get dead.


The problem is: No one knew in advance exactly who those 650,000 people were.

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## Oceander

> What the government should or shouldn't do is another subject for another board other than the science board.
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, there's the government again.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is: No one knew in advance exactly who those 650,000 people were.


Then they should have been focusing their efforts on figuring that out.  Instead, they destroyed trillions of dollars of economic value chasing rabbits down proverbial holes, and gave us a half-assed vaccine that is the functional equivalent of an aspirin for a fever.

Stupid, stupid, stupid, all around.  And now the nazis continue to double down on stupid.

The fact is, people die, they die all the time, they die from things that were preventable, they die from things they "didn't have to die from" - and many of them are innocent - but you do not destroy the economy simply because doing so is theorized to reduce the number of deaths.

We allow all manner of people 16 y.o. or older to drive high-speed killing machines at speeds that will most definitely kill.  And there are a lot of excess innocent deaths as a result.

If one wants to continue to support lock-downs and covid vaccine mandates, because it might - theoretically - save some few thousands who might otherwise have died, then one is logically committed to the proposition that we must permanently ban private unregulated use of automobiles as they currently exist.

If you will not accept that that is what your position commits you to, then you are simply a hypocrite, and really not worth the time of day, no matter how nicely you type.

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Quark (09-28-2021)

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## Quark

> I don't know about that. I mean, I can see this with very -large- parasites, things like bedbugs for instance, but when it comes to smaller things, I think that people's health is the most important factor. I've come to believe that people just don't understand how important health is. I think that's the main reason that India, that has an enormous population, was doing pretty good initially. Then they got a bunch of lockdowns, people were being beaten just to trying to get out of their homes to get food and well, when you're not eating properly, it stands to reason that your immune system would falter and then all of a sudden they get hit with Covid hard.


 Oh no doubt that nutrition plays a big part in health we see that with our wildlife, lack of food and density seems to boast  illness no doubt about that. Don't discount the large parasites. It's large parasites that carry the diseases that infect both animals and people.

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phoenyx (09-29-2021)

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## Quark

> Yes, animals are part of the population. Animal feces contain bacteria and viruses, so farmers need to practice cleanliness in their day-to-day operations.


Not just with the farmers and ranchers. What I was getting at is we have such wildlife diversity, everything from ground squirrels to moose. When any one animals spices over populates diseases among the species skyrockets even with adequate food and cover. All wildlife is infected with all kinds of diseases and when they bunch up into high densities the dying off begins. You see this with herd animals like deer, elk, sheep, goats, etc. You also see this with the varmints like ground squirrels and prairie dogs.

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## Quark

> What the government should or shouldn't do is another subject for another board other than the science board.
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, there's the government again.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is: No one knew in advance exactly who those 650,000 people were.


650,000 people didn't die from the Wuhan flu. Most likely the number is somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 a normal flu season. Other countries are starting to realize that but of curse The Communist People's Republic of Amerika will never ever post the truth about the Wuhan flu because we have censorship in this unfree nation of ours.

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## Quark

> Then they should have been focusing their efforts on figuring that out.  Instead, they destroyed trillions of dollars of economic value chasing rabbits down proverbial holes, and gave us a half-assed vaccine that is the functional equivalent of an aspirin for a fever.
> 
> Stupid, stupid, stupid, all around.  And now the nazis continue to double down on stupid.
> 
> The fact is, people die, they die all the time, they die from things that were preventable, they die from things they "didn't have to die from" - and many of them are innocent - but you do not destroy the economy simply because doing so is theorized to reduce the number of deaths.
> 
> We allow all manner of people 16 y.o. or older to drive high-speed killing machines at speeds that will most definitely kill.  And there are a lot of excess innocent deaths as a result.
> 
> If one wants to continue to support lock-downs and covid vaccine mandates, because it might - theoretically - save some few thousands who might otherwise have died, then one is logically committed to the proposition that we must permanently ban private unregulated use of automobiles as they currently exist.
> ...


I concur. Doctors were already experimenting with very successful drugs that were saving lives and making people healthy but the government could have none of that because to do so Trump would be in the WH and the economy would be booming and nationalism would be on a tear. The Wuhan flu was all about saving communism/fascism/globalism from nationalism and getting rid of Trump.

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## Fall River

> Fall River: The problem is: No one knew in advance who those 650,000 people were.






> Then they should have been focusing their efforts on figuring that out.



That's simply not possible and I challenge you to start your own thread and give us *your plan for controlling the pandemic*, starting form Jan. 2020 through to the present time. 

You can start by saying, "If I were Dr. Fauci, here's what I would have done to control the pandemic.  

Here, I'll even give you the heading: *"Oceander's Hindsight Plan For COVID Control"*

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## Oceander

> That's simply not possible and I challenge you to start your own thread and give us *your plan for controlling the pandemic*, starting form Jan. 2020 through to the present time. 
> 
> You can start by saying, "If I were Dr. Fauci, here's what I would have done to control the pandemic.  
> 
> Here, I'll even give you the heading: *"Oceander's Hindsight Plan For COVID Control"*


Nah, I'll just go with Fall River's reasons for why we should destroy our economy and our lives just in case a few thousand people might die of the common cold.  Because that is basically what you are advocating for, when taken to its logical conclusion.

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Quark (09-29-2021),ruthless terrier (09-29-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Thanks, I can't believe I read the whole thing. As interesting as it was, I don't think it holds up to what we have been experiencing. For example, in Feb. of 2020, I had the misfortune of sitting next to a man who had a bad cough. Within a couple of days I had the same cough, along with chills, fever, body aches and loss of appetite. Did I contract his exosomes? Are exosomes contagious? No. 
> 
> When there's a pandemic with millions of people around the world with the same symptoms and a million or so dying, is that a pandemic of exosomes?


Thank you for reading the whole opening post. It's getting hard to find people who are willing to do a little reading instead of saying they don't trust the source or what not and that being that :-p.


Anyway, I fully acknowledge that that opening post is far from sufficient to be persuasive on its own. I purchased the book itself and even then, I'm not sure that the book would be enough on its own. And what you say is certainly a good point- here's something you may wish to consider- what if you didn't get a virus from that old man, but a bacteria? No one is arguing that bacterias can't be contagious, so long as your body is not up to snuff. This is the very specific issue of viruses. Also, people can be removing toxins via cough and no one disputes that toxins can cause us to get sick.

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Fall River (09-30-2021),Quark (09-29-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Oh no doubt that nutrition plays a big part in health we see that with our wildlife, lack of food and density seems to boast  illness no doubt about that. Don't discount the large parasites. It's large parasites that carry the diseases that infect both animals and people.


Yeah, Dr. Sam Bailey did bring up a certain large parasite, mosquitos in the transmission of malaria. The idea is that the body isn't so good at defending itself when pathogens are inserted directly into the bloodstream instead of coming through the nose (which has filters) or the digestive system (which is designed to deal with pathogens to some extent).

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Quark (09-29-2021)

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## Quark

I thing I learned @phoenyx from all this Wuhan flu madness is than we have good viruses and good bacteria and this from virologists who have ER clinics before they were banned from you tube.  A healthy person produces viruses and bacteria that fight the bad viruses and bacteria that invade our bodies. A healthy person with a healthy immune system can fight off most bad viruses and bacteria they are likely to encounter provide we don't have mad scientists in laboratories doing gain-of-function research to infect humanity with man-made diseases.

No doubt good hygiene, good nutrition, good sanitation and waste management, exercise, and low population density leads to good health without vaccines and drugs and a long life.

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phoenyx (09-29-2021)

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## phoenyx

> I thing I learned @phoenyx from all this Wuhan flu madness is than we have good viruses and good bacteria and this from virologists who have ER clinics before they were banned from you tube.  A healthy person produces viruses and bacteria that fight the bad viruses and bacteria that invade our bodies. A healthy person with a healthy immune system can fight off most bad viruses and bacteria they are likely to encounter provide we don't have mad scientists in laboratories doing gain-of-function research to infect humanity with man-made diseases.
> 
> No doubt good hygiene, good nutrition, good sanitation and waste management, exercise, and low population density leads to good health without vaccines and drugs and a long life.



The very idea that there are good viruses is heading towards exosome territory, so I'm happy for that :-). As mentioned in other posts, I know of one author who believes that viruses aren't exosomes, but that they aren't contagious. Due to the amount of knowledge one needs to really sort these things out, I think it'll be a while before there is agreement on the truth, but I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is at least skeptical of the old dogma that viruses are bad, period.

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Quark (09-29-2021)

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## Dan40

We did not become more vulnerable.  We, the world, became victims of a wholly unreliable test.  Most likely less than 10% of reported cases actually ever had covid.  And probably half, or more, of them had the seasonal flu.  And we know that 90+% of covid deaths had multiple comorbidities.  Some gun deaths were counted as covid deaths, and some traffic deaths.  Seems that covid all but cured the seasonal flu,,,or not. Also we are victims of multiple unreliable, ineffective vaccines.  And now "they" want us to get MORE unreliable, ineffective, 'boosters.'  How many boosters?  That is a scam to be named later.  If any vaccine is safe and effective, let the manufacturer be RESPONSIBLE for the results, good or BAD.  Barb and I took the 2 Pfizer jabs months ago.  We will not be taking any boosters until the makers have full liability for their mystery vaccines.  No claims, no assurances, full legal liability ------- then we'll do our research.

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Quark (09-29-2021)

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## Dan40

I was so proud I posted it twice like a good dummy.......

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## ruthless terrier

> Nah, I'll just go with Fall River's reasons for why we should destroy our economy and our lives just in case a few thousand people might die of the common cold.  Because that is basically what you are advocating for, when taken to its logical conclusion.



thumbs up.png

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Fall River (09-30-2021),Quark (09-29-2021)

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## Quark

> We did not become more vulnerable.  We, the world, became victims of a wholly unreliable test.  Most likely less than 10% of reported cases actually ever had covid.  And probably half, or more, of them had the seasonal flu.  And we know that 90+% of covid deaths had multiple comorbidities.  Some gun deaths were counted as covid deaths, and some traffic deaths.  Seems that covid all but cured the seasonal flu,,,or not. Also we are victims of multiple unreliable, ineffective vaccines.  And now "they" want us to get MORE unreliable, ineffective, 'boosters.'  How many boosters?  That is a scam to be named later.  If any vaccine is safe and effective, let the manufacturer be RESPONSIBLE for the results, good or BAD.  Barb and I took the 2 Pfizer jabs months ago.  We will not be taking any boosters until the makers have full liability for their mystery vaccines.  No claims, no assurances, full legal liability ------- then we'll do our research.


I agree with you 100%. The only difference between Big Pharma and it's drugs and vaccines and the Drug Cartel and it's drugs is one is legal and the other are illegal but both are drug pushers.

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## BooBoo

" Why did we become so vulnerable to viruses? "


Look around at the sheeple around You on Your Daily Trex :

Drivers on cell phones, street walkers on cell phones, shoppers on cell phones...!!! Everywhere You go and Everyone You see has a Phone in their Hands...!! Sheeple don't pay attention to what they bee doing and where they bee at, they only see those cell phone screens...! They are so wrapped up in getting their 15 seconds of being Important that Everything Else that Matters is put on the back burner, until it is too Late... Then they Start to Wonder, before they just wandered with Blinders On...

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Foghorn (09-30-2021)

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## phoenyx

> We did not become more vulnerable.  We, the world, became victims of a wholly unreliable test.  Most likely less than 10% of reported cases actually ever had covid.


After reading an article from Iain Davis on Off Guardian that he published late last year, I now highly doubt that Covid 19 is based on a virus/exosome at all:

COVID19  Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

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## phoenyx

> " Why did we become so vulnerable to viruses? "
> 
> 
> Look around at the sheeple around You on Your Daily Trex :
> 
> Drivers on cell phones, street walkers on cell phones, shoppers on cell phones...!!! Everywhere You go and Everyone You see has a Phone in their Hands...!! Sheeple don't pay attention to what they bee doing and where they bee at, they only see those cell phone screens...! They are so wrapped up in getting their 15 seconds of being Important that Everything Else that Matters is put on the back burner, until it is too Late... Then they Start to Wonder, before they just wandered with Blinders On...


The scary thing is that those same cell phones and the cell phone towers may be one of the reasons people are getting sicker to begin with- I believe there's evidence that the real start of this whole Covid epidemic may well have been the addition of so many 5G towers in Wuhan. I get into it in a thread I made here a while back:
Evidence that Covid 19 may have started due to 5G networks


I started thinking it was too much for some, when the evidence of cell phone EMFs doing any serious damage is not well known. So I scaled it back with a thread getting into the evidence that it can be fairly harmful:
5G and other EMFs- what the science shows regarding harm

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## Fall River

> Nah, I'll just go with Fall River's reasons for why we should destroy our economy and our lives just in case a few thousand people might die of the common cold.  Because that is basically what you are advocating for, when taken to its logical conclusion.


So you have no plan except to take cheap shots at others with no basis for doing so.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Fall River

> Nah, I'll just go with Fall River's reasons for why we should destroy our economy and our lives just in case a few thousand people might die of the common cold.  Because that is basically what you are advocating for, when taken to its logical conclusion.


You say, "if taken to its logical conclusion" but I never approved of lockdowns, never approved of masking, and never approved of vaccines. So your so called "logical conclusion" is illogical.

And I'm still waiting for your up coming thread *"Oceander's Hindsight Plan For COVID Control*

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Oceander

> You say, "if taken to its logical conclusion" but I never approved of lockdowns, never approved of masking, and never approved of vaccines. So your so called "logical conclusion" is illogical.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for your up coming thread *"Oceander's Hindsight Plan For COVID Control*


Pure drivel.

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## Fall River

> Thank you for reading the whole opening post. It's getting hard to find people who are willing to do a little reading instead of saying they don't trust the source or what not and that being that :-p.
> 
> 
> Anyway, I fully acknowledge that that opening post is far from sufficient to be persuasive on its own. I purchased the book itself and even then, I'm not sure that the book would be enough on its own. And what you say is certainly a good point- here's something you may wish to consider- what if you didn't get a virus from that old man, but a bacteria? No one is arguing that bacterias can't be contagious, so long as your body is not up to snuff. This is the very specific issue of viruses. Also, people can be removing toxins via cough and no one disputes that toxins can cause us to get sick.


Okay, here's a link that seems to make some sense of the role that exosomes play. 

Frontiers | Diverse Effects of Exosomes on COVID-19: A Perspective of Progress From Transmission to Therapeutic Developments | Immunology.




> Exosomes are produced by virus-infected cells and play crucial roles in mediating communication between infected and uninfected cells.


So it's not that COVID-19 doesn't exist; it does exist. It's just that exosomes have "diverse effects" on COVID-19, according to this article.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Fall River

> Pure drivel.


What's pure drivel?  Would you care to explain?  Please tell me if you ever heard me say anything in support of lockdowns, vaccines, or mandating masks.  

Just because you imagine it, doesn't make it true.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Fall River

> We did not become more vulnerable.  We, the world, became victims of a wholly unreliable test.  Most likely less than 10% of reported cases actually ever had covid.  And probably half, or more, of them had the seasonal flu.  And we know that 90+% of covid deaths had multiple comorbidities.  Some gun deaths were counted as covid deaths, and some traffic deaths.  Seems that covid all but cured the seasonal flu,,,or not. Also we are victims of multiple unreliable, ineffective vaccines.  And now "they" want us to get MORE unreliable, ineffective, 'boosters.'  How many boosters?  That is a scam to be named later.  If any vaccine is safe and effective, let the manufacturer be RESPONSIBLE for the results, good or BAD.  Barb and I took the 2 Pfizer jabs months ago.  We will not be taking any boosters until the makers have full liability for their mystery vaccines.  No claims, no assurances, full legal liability ------- then we'll do our research.


Some gun deaths? How many, Dan?  And do you know the exact situation? Did someone fail to recover from otherwise recoverable wounds because of having covid?  We don't know.   

Some traffic deaths? How many, Dan? Same as above. Talk-show hosts don't care about the details of the case as long as it gives them good material for their show.

Comorbidities?  It's well known that the virus can trigger a heart attack or stroke. The virus can attack kidneys to the point of kidney failure. 

And then there are lung diseases that can be advanced to the point of death.

If anything, the numbers of deaths could just as well have been under-counted.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Fall River

> Attachment 62859


Don't believe everything Oceander says. I thought you were smarter than that.

I'll ask you the same thing I asked him: Did you ever hear me promoting lockdowns, vaccines, or mandatory mask-wearing?  Ever?  No, you did not.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021)

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## Foghorn

I achieved natural immunity by age 6.

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BooBoo (09-30-2021),Fall River (10-01-2021),phoenyx (09-30-2021)

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## BooBoo

^ Been thar Done Dat ^...!!!

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Fall River (10-01-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Okay, here's a link that seems to make some sense of the role that exosomes play. 
> 
> Frontiers | Diverse Effects of Exosomes on COVID-19: A Perspective of Progress From Transmission to Therapeutic Developments | Immunology.
> 
> 
> 
> So it's not that COVID-19 doesn't exist; it does exist. It's just that exosomes have "diverse effects" on COVID-19, according to this article.


I fully admit that the issue of viruses and exosomes is a murky one to me. I lean towards the idea that viruses may be exosomes, but I don't know a lot of things, so perhaps it's best for me not to dwell on this. However, I think there's a lot more evidence that the Cov 2 virus itself doesn't exist. The article that got me to firmly to believe that is this one by Iain Davis:

COVID19  Evidence Of Global Fraud | Children's Health Defense

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