# Stuff and Things > COVID & VACCINES >  Does the Cov 2 Virus really exist? Examining the evidence

## phoenyx

I've cited an article from Iain Davis published on Off Guardian multiple times as I haven't seen a better article that gets into all the faults in the official narrative regarding the Cov 2 virus. I frequently get people casually insulting it- I imagine most of them haven't read more than a paragraph or 2 before finding something they don't believe in and writing the whole thing off. The article is around 3,500 words and has around 40 links in it. It's a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned. I've decided it would be best to make this thread and quote a bit of it, and perhaps get a serious discussion going on the subject of evidence that the Cov 2 virus exists instead of the dismissive one liner insults that I'm used to on this, so here's to hoping. Based on conversations I've had with Trinnity, I've come to the conclusion that posting around 300 words or less of a regular article should be fine, so here goes...

**
Covid 19 - Evidence of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

Nov 17, 2020

Iain Davis
COVID 19, and the subsequent governmental responses, appear to be part of an international conspiracy to commit fraud. It seems there is no evidence that a virus called SARS-CoV-2 causes a disease called COVID 19.
Sometimes you have to go with your gut. I am not an expert in genetics and, as ever, stand to be corrected. However my attention was drawn to some research published by the Spanish medical journal D-Salud-Discovery. Their *advisory board* of eminently qualified physicians and scientists lends further credibility to their research. Their claim is astounding.
The genetic primers and probes used in RT-PCR tests to identify SARS-CoV-2 do not target anything specific. I followed the search techniques outlined in *this English translation* of their report and can corroborate the accuracy of their claims about the nucleotide sequences listed in the World Health Organization's protocols. You can do the same.
D-Salud-Discovery state there are no tests capable of identifying SARS-CoV-2. Consequently, all claims about the alleged impact of COVID 19 on population health are groundless.
The entire official COVID 19 narrative is a deception. Ostensibly, there is no scientific foundation for any part of it.
If these claims are accurate we can state that there is no evidence of a pandemic, merely the illusion of one. We have suffered incalculable loss for no evident reason, other than the ambitions of unscrupulous despots who wish to transform the global economy and our society to suit their purposes.
In doing so this _parasite class_ have potentially committed countless crimes. These crimes can and should be investigated and prosecuted in a court of law.

**

Full article here:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/17/...-global-fraud/

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Brat (10-27-2021),Canadianeye (10-10-2021),dinosaur (10-10-2021),QuaseMarco (10-10-2021),WarriorRob (10-10-2021)

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## Wildrose

> I've cited an article from Iain Davis published on Off Guardian multiple times as I haven't seen a better article that gets into all the faults in the official narrative regarding the Cov 2 virus. I frequently get people casually insulting it- I imagine most of them haven't read more than a paragraph or 2 before finding something they don't believe in and writing the whole thing off. The article is around 3,500 words and has around 40 links in it. It's a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned. I've decided it would be best to make this thread and quote a bit of it, and perhaps get a serious discussion going on the subject of evidence that the Cov 2 virus exists instead of the dismissive one liner insults that I'm used to on this, so here's to hoping. Based on conversations I've had with Trinnity, I've come to the conclusion that posting around 300 words or less of a regular article should be fine, so here goes...
> 
> **
> Covid 19 - Evidence of Global Fraud | Off Guardian
> 
> Nov 17, 2020
> 
> Iain Davis
> COVID 19, and the subsequent governmental responses, appear to be part of an international conspiracy to commit fraud. It seems there is no evidence that a virus called SARS-CoV-2 causes a disease called COVID 19.
> ...


That the question is even being asked is ridiculous.

Yes it exists.  If it didn't exist the genome could not have been identified and typed.

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021),nonsqtr (10-10-2021),WhoKnows (10-11-2021)

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## WarriorRob

https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...-doesn-t-exist

Apparently it doesn't in Spain :Dontknow:

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021),phoenyx (10-21-2021)

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## Wildrose

> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...-doesn-t-exist
> 
> Apparently it doesn't in Spain


86,778 dead Spaniards would disagree if they could.  So would their families and the Spanish Gov't.

COVID Live Update: 238,378,962 Cases and 4,863,187 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021)

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## dinosaur

I believe there is a SARS 2 virus that causes disease, and I can believe Covid 19 is a real disease.

But the PCR detection test is BS.  It doesn't work.  The CDC is abandoning the comparator array it has put out there for all the testing developers to use.  Dozens if not hundreds of companies all use the same flawed basis for their tests.  If CDC gets the array wrong, and the test is non specific, then the whole thing is in fact a shame.

False positives?  Yep.   Asymptomatic cases?  Yep.  This testing scheme can detect what does not exist, therefore it is easy for someone to postulate that Covid doesn't really exist.  

It doesn't help in that CDC did not publish any numbers for seasonal flu last year, or at least, if they did, they are buried in the haystack of misinformation.  Does seasonal flu really exist?  Apparently not last year.   Funny how seasonal flu just disappeared, you know, because of masks and social distancing.  Usually, we have about 500K deaths world wide due to flu every year.  What are we up to in Covid deaths?  4 million?  That number includes a few double taps and car wrecks, so throw that number away.  I have heard estimates that the real Covid deaths are 10-25% of the reported number.  The 10% low end puts Covid in the flu range, so I can see where a reasonable person could conclude this is just a bad flu.

Now, the CDC has created a new testing array.  Is it better?  Will it be specific to Covid?  If it is specific to Covid, is it specific enough to identify "variants"?  If it identifies variants, is it as non-specific as the current array and just as useless?  We have been lied to so much by Fauci and the CDC that I don't trust the new array.  I could start a conspiracy theory that the new array has been created to give even more false positives to extend the plandemic and further the goal of eternal lockdown and control.

A virus is a virus.  As a non professional, I am in the dark as to why the annual flu shot, without the experimental mRNA tech, was not updated to include protection against the virus that is causing Covid 19.   Seems like a better solution to me, but I am sure it is not that simple.  Why is it not possible to grow the virus in eggs and make it a component of the flu vaccine?  Is it impossible because they haven't found or isolated enough real, existing coronaviruses???  I would like someone to explain to me why we _only_ have the mRNA and viral vector vaccines here in the USA, while China and Russia, and maybe India? all have vaccines using older tech.  They (manufacturers) and CDC have had almost two years now.

Lots of studies are out there now on theraputics, and whether they work or not.  Why no CDC update and talk of theraputics?  Why has the Lyin Biden admin taken control of monoclonal antibody treatment with the power to decide who gets it, and who does not?  (That to me is a sign that it works, but it works against some political agenda.)  Why is CDC pushing this new tech vaccine when a country like India is doing much better than we are, without it?  (I am not aware of the social issues or lockdowns in India, but not being in the news, like AU, is a sign they haven't gone crazy.)

If we can't trust the numbers being reported, and the guidance and goalposts keep changing, and the government keeps demanding we stick with what is known to not be effective, what part of this planemic can we trust?  With all the censorship and spoon feeding of information from official sources, it reeks of propaganda and misinformation.  They are hiding something.  Something big.

And yes, it is a plandemic.  Fauci bragged about it before it happened.  Grand prediction.  He funded it, so he ought to have known.  It is probably the only thing Fauci has gotten right.  Whether it be 4M, or only 400K, Fauci and the rest of them who funded and mismanaged the plandemic all have blood on their hands, and all of them need to be prosecuted for their crimes.  Fauci lies every time he opens his mouth, typical Democrat.

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021),Conservative Libertarian (10-10-2021),Mainecoons (10-10-2021),phoenyx (10-21-2021),teeceetx (10-10-2021),WhoKnows (10-11-2021)

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## dinosaur

Oh, and there is another possibility in my mind, at least.  The supposed genome for the SARS 2 virus, is it the right genome, for the right virus?  Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the genome they published and used to develop the mRNA vaccines was the wrong genome.  Sure would explain why vaxxed people still get the disease.  A new, more deadly flu virus not included in last years, or this years, flu shot?

And where did the genome come from, exactly?   China????  Really, China????  Oh yeah, that would be just grand!

Could that be the real reason China appears to have recovered, and India doing well, and we are not hearing much about Russia, all who used real chopped up viruses and conventional tech for their vaccines?   Makes me wonder, at least.

Yeah, stupid crazy thought, but when vaxxed people still get sick, something is going on.  We have to remember that the Covid mRNA vaccine was developed to be very specific in its target.  What if the target is misidentified?  Sort of like blowing up a carload of kiddies while the real suicide bombers get away to do their thing.  Government would never misidentify something that important, right?  

 :Geez:

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021),Conservative Libertarian (10-10-2021),covfefe saved us (10-10-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> I would like someone to explain to me why we _only_ have the mRNA and viral vector vaccines here in the USA, while China and Russia, and maybe India? all have vaccines using older tech.


This is not accurate.

Pfizer and Moderna use RNA, but Russia's Sputnik vaccine uses double stranded DNA. 

Sputnik is a genetically modified adenovirus that has the code for the S protein inserted in it's genome, programmed to invade cells but not replicate.

Sputnik is basically the same technology as J&J and Astra Zeneca.

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Canadianeye (10-10-2021),dinosaur (10-10-2021),WhoKnows (10-11-2021)

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## dinosaur

> This is not accurate.
> 
> Pfizer and Moderna use RNA, but Russia's Sputnik vaccine uses double stranded DNA. 
> 
> Sputnik is a genetically modified adenovirus that has the code for the S protein inserted in it's genome, programmed to invade cells but not replicate.
> 
> Sputnik is basically the same technology as J&J and Astra Zeneca.


Sorry, my "we" meant us in the USA.  It is stated in the snippet you quoted.  Very accurate.  Reread my comments, I talk about Russia, China, and possibly India all using the lesser tech vaccines.  From what I read, the Sinovac vaccine is even different from the viral vector JnJ. 

Although we have JnJ here in the USA, it has been villianized from the beginning and purchased less by our government, so less, more limited use.



The COVID-19 vaccine race | Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance


I never intended to get into vaccine neverland here.  This thread is about whether or not the virus that causes Covid really exists.  My point in responding was regarding the possibility of vaccine failure being rooted in a wrong genome or misidentification of the virus involved.  That would apply to mRNA and viral vector vaccines alike.  RNA misidentified.  Wrong DNA used.  Compared to the Sinovac, which used real viruses, inactivated.  Could the Chinese give us an incorrect genome to hide the fact that the virus came from a lab?  Would they?

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## QuaseMarco

> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...-doesn-t-exist
> 
> Apparently it doesn't in Spain


*BREAKING NEWS! SPANISH HIGH COURT CONFIRMS THAT COVID 19 DOES NOT EXIST! WITH CHARLIE WARD*https://www.bitchute.com/video/nXt3lz5N1VrB/

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> I've cited an article from Iain Davis published on Off Guardian multiple times as I haven't seen a better article that gets into all the faults in the official narrative regarding the Cov 2 virus. I frequently get people casually insulting it- I imagine most of them haven't read more than a paragraph or 2 before finding something they don't believe in and writing the whole thing off. The article is around 3,500 words and has around 40 links in it. It's a masterpiece as far as I'm concerned. I've decided it would be best to make this thread and quote a bit of it, and perhaps get a serious discussion going on the subject of evidence that the Cov 2 virus exists instead of the dismissive one liner insults that I'm used to on this, so here's to hoping. Based on conversations I've had with Trinnity, I've come to the conclusion that posting around 300 words or less of a regular article should be fine, so here goes...
> 
> **
> Covid 19 - Evidence of Global Fraud | Off Guardian
> 
> Nov 17, 2020
> 
> Iain Davis
> COVID 19, and the subsequent governmental responses, appear to be part of an international conspiracy to commit fraud. It seems there is no evidence that a virus called SARS-CoV-2 causes a disease called COVID 19.
> ...


So ... are you recanting your claims that 5G causes COVID and communing now with the "There is no COVID" fellowship?

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## Wildrose

> Oh, and there is another possibility in my mind, at least.  The supposed genome for the SARS 2 virus, is it the right genome, for the right virus?  Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that the genome they published and used to develop the mRNA vaccines was the wrong genome.  Sure would explain why vaxxed people still get the disease.  A new, more deadly flu virus not included in last years, or this years, flu shot?
> 
> And where did the genome come from, exactly?   China????  Really, China????  Oh yeah, that would be just grand!
> 
> Could that be the real reason China appears to have recovered, and India doing well, and we are not hearing much about Russia, all who used real chopped up viruses and conventional tech for their vaccines?   Makes me wonder, at least.
> 
> Yeah, stupid crazy thought, but when vaxxed people still get sick, something is going on.  We have to remember that the Covid mRNA vaccine was developed to be very specific in its target.  What if the target is misidentified?  Sort of like blowing up a carload of kiddies while the real suicide bombers get away to do their thing.  Government would never misidentify something that important, right?


The Genome was typed by multiple labs in multiple countries independently.

If it was not the correct Genome none of the vaccines would work at all.

We know the vaccines are effective even against the new variants, thus we know it's the right target.

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dinosaur (10-21-2021)

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## Wildrose

> *BREAKING NEWS! SPANISH HIGH COURT CONFIRMS THAT COVID 19 DOES NOT EXIST! WITH CHARLIE WARD*
> 
> 
> https://www.bitchute.com/video/nXt3lz5N1VrB/


 That isn't breaking news and that isn't what the Spanish Court ruled.

You're peddling bullshit as a substitute for fact again.

What the court ruled was that with 70% of the population vaccinated there was no justification for a return to draconian Covid Restrictions.

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## WhoKnows

> The Genome was typed by multiple labs in multiple countries independently.
> 
> If it was not the correct Genome none of the vaccines would work at all.
> 
> *We know the vaccines are effective even against the new variants*, thus we know it's the right target.


Bolded mine.

How do you know this? Based on what data?

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phoenyx (10-21-2021)

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## nonsqtr

> .  This thread is about whether or not the virus that causes Covid really exists.


Well, here's some pictures of it, you can see the spikes...



Here's some pics of it infecting a cell and replicating, you can see the little virus buds where the arrows are.

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dinosaur (10-21-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> Well, here's some pictures of it, you can see the spikes...
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some pics of it infecting a cell and replicating, you can see the little virus buds where the arrows are.


Looks kinda large for a submicron sized virus.

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## Traddles

> That the question is even being asked is ridiculous.
> 
> Yes it exists.  If it didn't exist the genome could not have been identified and typed.


People like me weren't admitted to hospitals because we like hospital food and the restful environment of having our BP taken every few hours, a _bleeping_ O2 monitor that alarms when our O2 dipped below 90% (or the sensor moved too much), a fricking noisy air filtration unit running 24x7, and a blood test every morning around 6:30? Who knew?!!!  :Smiley ROFLMAO:

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Oceander (10-11-2021),Wildrose (10-11-2021)

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## Oceander

> People like me weren't admitted to hospitals because we like hospital food and the restful environment of having our BP taken every few hours, a _bleeping_ O2 monitor that alarms when our O2 dipped below 90% (or the sensor moved too much), a fricking noisy air filtration unit running 24x7, and a blood test every morning around 6:30? Who knew?!!!


Did you get any hospital head while you were there?

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## Wildrose

> Bolded mine.
> 
> How do you know this? Based on what data?


Based on all the published data.

Do COVID-19 vaccines protect against the variants? - Mayo Clinic

There is no more respected authority in clinical medicine than The Mayo Clinic and they certainly aren't part of some gov't conspiracy.

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## Wildrose

> Well, here's some pictures of it, you can see the spikes...
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some pics of it infecting a cell and replicating, you can see the little virus buds where the arrows are.


Let me guess, the claim will be that they were photoshopped>?

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## phoenyx

> That the question is even being asked is ridiculous.
> 
> Yes it exists.  If it didn't exist the genome could not have been identified and typed.


False. From the article in the OP:
**
*VOYAGE OF DISCOVERY*
The Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention and the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre published the *first full SARS-CoV-2 genome* (MN908947.1 ). This has been updated many times. However, MN908947.1 was the first genetic sequence describing the alleged COVID 19 _etiologic agent_ (SARS-CoV-2).

All subsequent claims, tests, treatments, statistics, vaccine development and resultant policies are based upon this sequence. If the tests for this _novel_ virus don’t identify anything capable of causing illness in human beings, the whole COVID 19 narrative is nothing but a charade.

The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.

They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHO’s statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.

The Wuhan team used 40 rounds of RT-qPCR amplification to match fragments of cDNA (complimentary DNA constructed from sampled RNA fragments) with the published SARS coronavirus genome (SARS-CoV). Unfortunately it isn’t clear how accurate the original SARS-CoV genome is either.
**

Source:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/11/17/...-global-fraud/

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## phoenyx

> 86,778 dead Spaniards would disagree if they could.


You saying you can talk to the dead -.-?

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## phoenyx

> So ... are you recanting your claims that 5G causes COVID and communing now with the "There is no COVID" fellowship?


Not at all. This thread is all about whether the Cov 2 -virus- exists. I never said that Covid 19 doesn't exist. As mentioned elsewhere, what persuaded me that there is something new on the horizon was Dr. Cameron Kyle-Sidell. Here's an article on his findings:

Bombshell Plea From NYC ICU Doctor: COVID-19 A Condition of Oxygen Deprivation, Not Pneumonia  NewsWars


So yes, I continue to believe that 5G may well have been the initial cause of what came to be called Covid 19. At this point, I think that vaccines may well be a cause of one or more alleged Covid 19 variants.

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## phoenyx

> The Genome was typed by multiple labs in multiple countries independently.


No, what we had was computer models guessing what the genome of this alleged virus was. The alleged virus has never been isolated. Honestly, after what I've read, such as the book The Truth About Contagion, I don't believe any virus has ever been isolated.





> If it was not the correct Genome none of the vaccines would work at all.


I don't believe they do.




> We know the vaccines are effective even against the new variants


We? Anyway, feel free to try to prove your assertion.

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## phoenyx

> Well, here's some pictures of it, you can see the spikes...
> 
> 
> 
> Here's some pics of it infecting a cell and replicating, you can see the little virus buds where the arrows are.


Prove that any of those pictures show Cov 2 virions and you'd have a case.

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## phoenyx

> Based on all the published data.
> 
> Do COVID-19 vaccines protect against the variants? - Mayo Clinic
> 
> There is no more respected authority in clinical medicine than The Mayo Clinic and they certainly aren't part of some gov't conspiracy.


You don't have to be part of a government conspiracy to be incompetent. Here's the most popular review of your "respected" Mayo Clinic:
Top 10 Reviews of Mayo Clinic

The review concludes:
**
Don't trust Mayo. Through additional research I have also learned that almost, or as many that I can find every insurance company has the same policy for a kidney ablation. Since I would guess that this wasn't there first attempt at an ablation we can all assume that they would have known that. My feelings are that they new that, and that is why they did not want to submit information to my insurance company and my ablation would not be allowed, so then they would not have me for a statistic.


I have refused to pay what my insurance didn't cover because Mayo has lied about the whole process and created there own mess, they have now turned me over for collection, which I shall try to fight but its hard to fight the big lying, cheating, deceitful, Mayo Clinic and yes I did pay all of the rest of my bill, which I thought was what was all that I would have to my 3500 dollars out of pocket quite frankly I don't have another 6300 dollars. I you go to Mayo do not trust anything they tell you, and yes my doctor was also quite arrogant. Mayo Clinic has been the absolute was medical experience in my life.
**

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## dinosaur

Real life story ...  

Mrs dinosaur had a large growth on one kidney, found by ultrasound looking at her non functioning gall bladder.  Doctors decided to "deroof" the kidney based on a recommendation from University of Chicago (1 in 4 probability of cancer).  During removal, the two surgeons doing the work disagreed on whether the growth was cancer or something else, the operating room compromise was to section what was removed and send off for additional opinions.

Samples were sent to Mayo, University of Iowa, MD Anderson, and Sloan Kettering.  The doctor in charge said University of Iowa was his  "most trusted source" in these kidney matters.  U of Iowa can back immediately with a verdict of cancer.  MD Anderson also came back with a high probability of cancer.  Mayo and Sloan Kettering both came back with a low probability wait and see answer.  Doctors went in and removed about one third of her kidney, more or less.

Samples from that surgery were positive for Stage 1 kidney cancer.  Because kidney cancers are rarely found so early, Mrs dinosaur signed consent forms to have photos of her samples used in teaching and/or textbooks.  

No doctor, no hospital, no medical research facility, is infallible.  And truth/fiction is not always black or white, but a continuous spectrum mostly consisting of gray.

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phoenyx (10-21-2021)

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## phoenyx

> No doctor, no hospital, no medical research facility, is infallible.  And truth/fiction is not always black or white, but a continuous spectrum mostly consisting of gray.


Agreed.

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## Wildrose

> False. From the article in the OP:
> **
> *VOYAGE OF DISCOVERY*
> The Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention and the Shanghai Public Health Clinical Centre published the *first full SARS-CoV-2 genome* (MN908947.1 ). This has been updated many times. However, MN908947.1 was the first genetic sequence describing the alleged COVID 19 _etiologic agent_ (SARS-CoV-2).
> 
> All subsequent claims, tests, treatments, statistics, vaccine development and resultant policies are based upon this sequence. If the tests for this _novel_ virus dont identify anything capable of causing illness in human beings, the whole COVID 19 narrative is nothing but a charade.
> 
> The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.
> 
> ...


More crap from the same discredited source isn't helping your case any.

One of the big things holding up our ability to produce Covid Tests early on was the fact the Chinese refused to either provide us with tissue samples so we could type them or the genome itself.

That delay cost the US and rest of the West weeks, enough to let the pandemic get completely out of hand.

COVID-19 Genomic Epidemiology Toolkit | Advanced Molecular Detection (AMD) | CDC

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## Wildrose

> No, what we had was computer models guessing what the genome of this alleged virus was. The alleged virus has never been isolated. Honestly, after what I've read, such as the book The Truth About Contagion, I don't believe any virus has ever been isolated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe they do.
> 
> 
> 
> We? Anyway, feel free to try to prove your assertion.


COVID-19 Genomic Epidemiology Toolkit | Advanced Molecular Detection (AMD) | CDC

COVID-19 GPH|Home|PHGKB

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## phoenyx

> [insults removed]


Not helping your case.





> One of the big things holding up our ability to produce Covid Tests early on was the fact the Chinese refused to either provide us with tissue samples so we could type them or the genome itself.


From the article, it seems clear to me that there's no evidence that the Cov 2 virus even exists.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> No, what we had was computer models guessing what the genome of this alleged virus was. The alleged virus has never been isolated. Honestly, after what I've read, such as the book The Truth About Contagion, I don't believe any virus has ever been isolated.
> 
> We? Anyway, feel free to try to prove your assertion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


2 links don't prove anything.

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## Wildrose

> 2 links don't prove anything.


Except they show the fallaciousness of your entire presumption.

If they don't have the genome they can't distinguish between the different strains and we could have never developed a vaccine.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 2 links don't prove anything.
> 
> 
> Except they show the fallaciousness of your entire presumption.
> 
> If they don't have the genome they can't distinguish between the different strains and we could have never developed a vaccine.


You're assuming they wouldn't essentially fabricate a genome. How could they do that? The article explains:

**
The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.

They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHO’s statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.
**

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## Wildrose

> You're assuming they wouldn't essentially fabricate a genome. How could they do that? The article explains:
> 
> **
> The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.
> 
> They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHO’s statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.
> **


If the Genome had been faked none of the Covid tests would work.

If the genome had been faked, Convalescent Plasma and Monoclonal Antibody treatments would not work at all since they depend on the "Lock and Key" relationship.

Which antivaxxer nut farm are you raiding for your quotes?

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> You're assuming they wouldn't essentially fabricate a genome. How could they do that? The article explains:
> **
> The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.
> 
> They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHOs statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.
> **
> ...


That depends on how we're defining something that works. They are certainly finding -something-. The issue is whether they're finding this alleged Cov 2 virus or other things.




> If the genome had been faked, Convalescent Plasma and Monoclonal Antibody treatments would not work at all since they depend on the "Lock and Key" relationship.


There is a lot of evidence that antibody treatments are not working. My journalist friend actually wrote an article on this:
https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-antibody-deception/

----------


## Wildrose

> That depends on how we're defining something that works. They are certainly finding -something-. The issue is whether they're finding this alleged Cov 2 virus or other things.
> 
> 
> There is a lot of evidence that antibody treatments are not working. My journalist friend actually wrote an article on this:
> https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-antibody-deception/


Ahh yes, your friend Rosemary.  What are her qualifications again?

----------


## phoenyx

> Ahh yes, your friend Rosemary.  What are her qualifications again?


From her web site:
**
After obtaining an MSc in molecular biology from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary in 1988, I became a full-time freelance medical writer and journalist.
I continued that for 28 years (except for three years in media relations at the University of Calgary from 1990-1993,  four months at Fleishman-Hillard in Toronto in 1994 and six months with a continuing medical education company in Markham in 1994).

Along the way my work appeared in both general-public and trade publications across Canada and the US. I also was a judge for the feature-article category of Canada’s National Newspaper Awards and a judge for the Canadian Science Writers’ Association’s yearly journalism awards.
I pivoted in early 2016 to full-time, independent activism and investigative journalism.
**

Source:
https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/about/

----------


## Wildrose

> From her web site:
> **
> After obtaining an MSc in molecular biology from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary in 1988, I became a full-time freelance medical writer and journalist.
> I continued that for 28 years (except for three years in media relations at the University of Calgary from 1990-1993,  four months at Fleishman-Hillard in Toronto in 1994 and six months with a continuing medical education company in Markham in 1994).
> 
> Along the way my work appeared in both general-public and trade publications across Canada and the US. I also was a judge for the feature-article category of Canada’s National Newspaper Awards and a judge for the Canadian Science Writers’ Association’s yearly journalism awards.
> I pivoted in early 2016 to full-time, independent activism and investigative journalism.
> **
> 
> ...


Which means she is by no measure a credible person to rely on.  

She's never been much of anything other than a quack anti vaxxer journalist and has never treated a single patient.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> From her web site:
> **
> After obtaining an MSc in molecular biology from the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Calgary in 1988, I became a full-time freelance medical writer and journalist.
> I continued that for 28 years (except for three years in media relations at the University of Calgary from 1990-1993,  four months at Fleishman-Hillard in Toronto in 1994 and six months with a continuing medical education company in Markham in 1994).
> 
> Along the way my work appeared in both general-public and trade publications across Canada and the US. I also was a judge for the feature-article category of Canada’s National Newspaper Awards and a judge for the Canadian Science Writers’ Association’s yearly journalism awards.
> ...


Do -you- have a degree in molecular biology? Have -you- been a medical writer a journalist for any length of time, let alone 28 years? I know of few journalists who have explained the pitfalls in the conventional covid narrative as well as she has.

----------


## Wildrose

> Do -you- have a degree in molecular biology? Have -you- been a medical writer a journalist for any length of time, let alone 28 years? I know of few journalists who have explained the pitfalls in the conventional covid narrative as well as she has.


Only because she keeps putting out the same anti vaxxer BS you feed on.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Do -you- have a degree in molecular biology? Have -you- been a medical writer a journalist for any length of time, let alone 28 years? I know of few journalists who have explained the pitfalls in the conventional covid narrative as well as she has.
> 
> 
> [insult removed]


Are you going to answer my questions, or do you just want to insult my friend?

----------


## Wildrose

> Are you going to answer my questions, or do you just want to insult my friend?


If stating facts insults your friend the fault is with your friend, not with myself.

----------


## phoenyx

> If stating facts insults your friend


I haven't seen you write a fact for a while now. What you excel in is insulting others, not posting facts. Now, are you ever going to answer how your qualifications stack up to my friend's? Perhaps you've already forgotten them, so let me refresh your memory. Do you have -any- degree in biology? Have you been a medical reporter for a single day, let alone 28 years?

----------


## Wildrose

> I haven't seen you write a fact for a while now. What you excel in is insulting others, not posting facts. Now, are you ever going to answer how your qualifications stack up to my friend's? Perhaps you've already forgotten them, so let me refresh your memory. Do you have -any- degree in biology? Have you been a medical reporter for a single day, let alone 28 years?


It is a fact she's not a physician and has no clinical experience period.

It is a fact that she's an anti vaxxer nut that makes her living peddling BS to other anti vaxxer idiots.

It is a fact that a large portion of what she spews on a daily basis is Pure BS, that cannot be substantiated period.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> I haven't seen you write a fact for a while now. What you excel in is insulting others, not posting facts. *Now, are you ever going to answer how your qualifications stack up to my friend's?* Perhaps you've already forgotten them, so let me refresh your memory. Do you have -any- degree in biology? Have you been a medical reporter for a single day, let alone 28 years?


Don't bullshit about qualifications.  You pay no attention to qualifications when it suits you.

I have the same level of qualifications in electrical engineering, MS EE, especially radio frequency phenomena and hazards to humans, as she does in her domain.  Actually more, because I actually used my education in providing engineering services to DOD and multiple other countries. But you just ignored my qualifications to assess the legitimacy of your ridiculous claims about 5G causing COVID.


Stop the shitshow. You whine about insults like a little girl but your posts deserve nothing but insults because the nonsense that you post is intellectually insulting to anyone with a IQ greater than 80.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> I haven't seen you write a fact for a while now. What you excel in is insulting others, not posting facts. Now, are you ever going to answer how your qualifications stack up to my friend's? Perhaps you've already forgotten them, so let me refresh your memory. Do you have -any- degree in biology? Have you been a medical reporter for a single day, let alone 28 years?
> 
> 
> It is a fact she's not a physician and has no clinical experience period.


True. It's -also- a fact that she has a degree a Masters in Science in molecular biology and was a medical reporter for 28 years. Do you have a degree in biology or any experience as a reporter of any stripe?






> [insults removed]


Yes, this is what you're best at.

----------


## Wildrose

> True. It's -also- a fact that she has a degree a Masters in Science in molecular biology and was a medical reporter for 28 years. Do you have a degree in biology or any experience as a reporter of any stripe?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, this is what you're best at.


I have a Masters in Biology and 13 years clinical experience.

Being a reporter doesn't make her remotely qualified on any subject other than reporting.

----------


## phoenyx

> Don't [insult removed] about qualifications.  You pay no attention to qualifications when it suits you.
> 
> I have the same level of qualifications in electrical engineering, MS EE, especially radio frequency phenomena and hazards to humans, as she does in her domain.  Actually more, because I actually used my education in providing engineering services to DOD and multiple other countries. But you just ignored my qualifications to assess the legitimacy of your ridiculous claims about 5G causing COVID.


No, I actually paid attention to what you wrote. The problem was, you weren't all that interested in what -other- experts had to say. It's all detailed in the 5G thread for anyone who'd like to take a look:
https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...o-5G-networks/

I even made -another- thread on the subject of EMF radiation, citing a court case that Children's Health Defense won in part in regards to the fact that the FCC was ignoring evidence in regards to EMF radiation- it was the last thing I wrote about in that thread. He didn't even want to -look- at the new thread I'd made. My reference to that second thread was actually the last thing Ishmael responded to. His words? An insult, in this case, to the the thread itself.

Ishmael certainly has the -potential- of bringing up good points, and sometimes he really does. Unfortunately, most of the time he gets bogged down in insulting those he disagrees with.

----------


## phoenyx

> I have a Masters in Biology and 13 years clinical experience.


Great! That means that if you actually bothered to -read- what Rosemary has to say, you'd probably be able to see how she has knowledge of biology just as you do.




> Being a reporter doesn't make her remotely qualified on any subject other than reporting.


She was a -medical- reporter for 28 years. What subject do you imagine a medical reporter would do research on?

----------


## Wildrose

> Great! That means that if you actually bothered to -read- what Rosemary has to say, you'd probably be able to see how she has knowledge of biology just as you do.
> 
> 
> She was a -medical- reporter for 28 years. What subject do you imagine a medical reporter would do research on?


It doesn't make her any sort of authority on vaccinations or whether or not the virus is real.

In attempting to claim it isn't she has shredded any credibility she ever had.

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> Ishmael certainly has the -potential- of bringing up good points, and sometimes he really does. Unfortunately, most of the time he gets bogged down in insulting those he disagrees with.


Somewhere... between here and England... and at some time in the last century, we have become a nation of spineless snowflakes who are offended at insults to the extent that they are deemed unprofessional and childish .. and offenses worth a ban in some forums.  Pay no attention to one of my heros, a veritable reservoir of insults.  

Winston Churchillâ€™s Greatest Jokes And Insults


And it is written that we Americans used to take pride in our insults as well.


9 Insults That Make the Presidential Campaign Seem Civilized | Merriam-Webster

 But ... but... then came the pussified man-boys who learned to cry for mommy and the teacher and now do the same for the forum moderators.

----------

Wildrose (10-28-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Great! That means that if you actually bothered to -read- what Rosemary has to say, you'd probably be able to see how she has knowledge of biology just as you do.
> 
> She was a -medical- reporter for 28 years. What subject do you imagine a medical reporter would do research on?
> 
> 
> It doesn't make her any sort of authority on vaccinations or whether or not the virus is real.


It does if she's studied up on the subject of Covid vaccines and the Cov 2 virus. Turns out, she has, on both counts:

https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-stat...h-dont-add-up/
https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/02/...y-association/


When criticized by others, she has also shown their own flaws as well:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/08/06/...hfeedback-org/


I believe she's one of the best reporters on Covid in general. She even critiques some who don't agree with the official narrative but who she finds have flaws in their own logic. The case of Geert Vanden Bossche is a good example:
https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-curi...anden-bossche/

https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-vand...per-continues/



This is one area where there is some overlap between the mainstream narrative on vaccines and her:
https://vaxopedia.org/2021/03/14/who...anden-bossche/

She even has an article with tips on how to determine whether a medical study is legit or not:
https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/three-ti...t-or-bullsh-t/

----------


## phoenyx

> Somewhere... between here and England... and at some time in the last century, we have become a nation of spineless snowflakes who are offended at insults to the extent that they are deemed unprofessional and childish .. and offenses worth a ban in some forums.  Pay no attention to one of my heros, a veritable reservoir of insults.


You go off if someone simply suggests or outright accuses you of being too cozy to Big Pharma. There is a time and a place for insults, but in general, I don't see it in forums. It tends to distract if not utterly derail intelligent conversations discussing the issues rather than what you think of those participating in the discussion and/or others who are referenced.

----------


## Wildrose

> It does if she's studied up on the subject of Covid vaccines and the Cov 2 virus. Turns out, she has, on both counts:
> 
> https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-stat...h-dont-add-up/
> https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/02/...y-association/
> 
> 
> When criticized by others, she has also shown their own flaws as well:
> https://off-guardian.org/2020/08/06/...hfeedback-org/
> 
> ...


She's another blowhard anti vaxxer with zero credibility.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> It does if she's studied up on the subject of Covid vaccines and the Cov 2 virus. Turns out, she has, on both counts:
> 
> https://www.rosemaryfrei.ca/the-stat...h-dont-add-up/
> https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/02/...y-association/
> 
> 
> ...


All that work I put into that post and all you can do is insult my friend. Grow up.

----------


## crayons

> She's another blowhard anti vaxxer with zero credibility.


Here We Go Again...There's absolutely no excuse fer 'rosies' nonstop childish behavior.

----------

phoenyx (10-29-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Here We Go Again...There's absolutely no excuse fer 'rosies' nonstop childish behavior.


Exactly! From what I've heard, Trinnity has banned people for less when they go after her. Why the double standard?

----------


## Wildrose

> All that work I put into that post and all you can do is insult my friend. Grow up.


You should pick much better friends.

----------


## Wildrose

> Exactly! From what I've heard, Trinnity has banned people for less when they go after her. Why the double standard?


Trinnity is a moderator here, the quacks and frauds you keep citing aren't.

----------


## crayons

> Exactly! From what I've heard, Trinnity has banned people for less when they go after her. Why the double standard?


The mod's aren't always here...The only thing to do is point out childish behavior within a thread, cuz as far as the owners
go it's all free entertainment...I don't see any advertising here...maybe cuz I'm blockin it...I can barely git in or out of
this site since I'm so far out in the boonies.

----------


## phoenyx

> You should pick much better friends.


My friends tend to -avoid- insults and try their best to stick to the evidence. I wish you could do the same.

----------


## phoenyx

> Trinnity is a moderator here, the quacks and frauds you keep citing aren't.


Trinnity is an Admin here- from what I can tell, the head Admin. We've had our disagreements but as a general rule, she's been pretty respectful to me, as well as the people I reference. You can't seem to help insulting people you disagree with, and that helps no one.

----------


## Wildrose

> Trinnity is an Admin here- from what I can tell, the head Admin. We've had our disagreements but as a general rule, she's been pretty respectful to me, as well as the people I reference. You can't seem to help insulting people you disagree with, and that helps no one.


I speak the truth.  If you can't handle that then quit putting up discredited frauds and flat out crazy loons as "sources".

----------


## phoenyx

> The mod's aren't always here...


That's true, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that. I've been talking to someone who Trinnity apparently banned- from what he said, said friend didn't actually say much, but he said it to Trinnity. For a while now, I've felt that there are double standards here- but then, there are double standards almost everywhere. I just try to find a place to post where the double standards are the smallest.





> The only thing to do is point out childish behavior within a thread, cuz as far as the owners go it's all free entertainment...


I don't know about that. I think Trinnity and the mods may want to make a difference in the world too.




> I don't see any advertising here...maybe cuz I'm blockin it...


I've never seen any advertising here either.

----------


## phoenyx

> I speak the truth.


Insulting people proves nothing.

----------


## crayons

> The mod's aren't always here...The only thing to do is point out childish behavior within a thread, cuz as far as the owners
> go it's all free entertainment...I don't see any advertising here...maybe cuz I'm blockin it...I can barely git in or out of
> this site since I'm so far out in the boonies.


This site is owner/member financed...so there's that

----------

phoenyx (10-29-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Insulting people proves nothing.


Speaking the truth is speaking the truth.  If it's insulting then the problem is not with the speaker.

----------


## phoenyx

> Speaking the truth is speaking the truth.


Obviously.




> If it's insulting then the problem is not with the speaker.


Your problem is that if people don't agree with what -you- think is true, then you think you're justified in insulting them.

----------


## crayons

> Obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> Your problem is that if people don't agree with what -you- think is true, then you think you're justified in insulting them.




I'd thank ya but I don't have a thank ya script-button so I'll say >>>Yep, Ya nailed it Brother

----------

phoenyx (10-29-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Obviously.
> 
> 
> 
> Your problem is that if people don't agree with what -you- think is true, then you think you're justified in insulting them.


It isn't about "beliefs" it's about actual facts that can be supported by evidence.

----------


## crayons

> It isn't about "beliefs" it's about actual facts that can be supported by evidence.


Whatcha talkin bout Willis??? Where's yer evidence ???

----------

phoenyx (10-29-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Whatcha talkin bout Willis??? Where's yer evidence ???


Well said :-).

----------


## Wildrose

> Whatcha talkin bout Willis??? Where's yer evidence ???


It's not up to me to prove your case.

It's up to you and your, "friends" to supply supporting evidence to substantiate their claims.

They have no actual evidence as is shown again, and again, and again.

----------


## phoenyx

> It's not up to me to prove your case.


No, but it is up to you to prove yours. Most of the time, it seems you'd rather just insult those you disagree with.

----------


## Wildrose

> No, but it is up to you to prove yours. Most of the time, it seems you'd rather just insult those you disagree with.


The only case I'm making is that neither you nor the frauds you keep putting up as "sources" can produce any corroborating evidence to support your claims or theirs.

Supposition, rumor, and innuendo are not facts.

----------


## crayons

> It's not up to me to prove your case.
> 
> It's up to you and your, "friends" to supply supporting evidence to substantiate their claims.
> 
> They have no actual evidence as is shown again, and again, and again.


There's an ol' sayin >>> Money Talks n' Bullshyyt Walks...It's up to You to provide any supporting evidence
to support your rebuttal...Ya Know It?

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> There's an ol' sayin >>> Money Talks n' Bullshyyt Walks...It's up to You to provide any supporting evidence
> to support your rebuttal...Ya Know It?


No, it's up to you to provide the evidence to support your claims.

It's not my case to make, it's yours.

----------


## crayons

> No, it's up to you to provide the evidence to support your claims.
> 
> It's not my case to make, it's yours.


No, It's up to you to support yer rebuttal with evidence > somethin > anything but insults. 
Otherwise ya come across as a cheap barfly, a slippery-slimy, slip on a pebble lawyer or worse.

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> No, It's up to you to support yer rebuttal with evidence > somethin > anything but insults. 
> Otherwise ya come across as a cheap barfly, a slippery-slimy, slip on a pebble lawyer or worse.


No, you  proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence, it's not up to me to provide the supporting evidence it's up to you and they to do so.

----------


## crayons

> No, you  proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence, it's not up to me to provide the supporting evidence it's up to you and they to do so.


If you think the claims are ridiculous than it should be EZ fer ya to debunk the said claims with facts???

I gottago, BigBerta's here at the gate with an 18 wheeler...

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> If you think the claims are ridiculous than it should be EZ fer ya to debunk the said claims with facts???
> 
> I gottago, BigBerta's here at the gate with an 18 wheeler...


I do, I point out the truth that nothing they are providing as "truth" can be supported by any actual facts.

You really don't get how debate works do you?

If you make a statement of fact you'd better damned well be able to support it with corroborating evidence.

You don't because your "sources" don't have any facts to substantiate their claims.

----------


## crayons

> I do, I point out the truth that nothing they are providing as "truth" can be supported by any actual facts.


Than Show Me The Truth, Do it >>> Bring It Bring It Bring It

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> Than Show Me The Truth, Do it >>> Bring It Bring It Bring It


I have repeatedly.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the claims of thousands, hundreds, or millions of deaths due to the vaccines that you and yours keep claiming.

----------


## crayons

> I have repeatedly.
> 
> There is no evidence whatsoever to support the claims of thousands, hundreds, or millions of deaths due to the vaccines that you and yours keep claiming.


That's cuz ya don't know where to look...The Internet today is censored...The Mountain-View-Marxist-Goolag
has taken Full Control of Yer Compooter...Ya Gotta Break Free 'Baby'

----------


## Wildrose

> That's cuz ya don't know where to look...The Internet today is censored...The Mountain-View-Marxist-Goolag
> has taken Full Control of Yer Compooter...Ya Gotta Break Free 'Baby'


This is of course about the best you can do for a reply.

Sad, but true.

If your claims were true we'd literally have millions of people dead in the US already due to vaccine reactions/poisonings etc.

----------


## crayons

> This is of course about the best you can do for a reply.
> 
> Sad, but true.
> 
> If your claims were true we'd literally have millions of people dead in the US already due to vaccine reactions/poisonings etc.


I work and everyone I know, knows someone who has either died or is in bad shape or dying from the clot shot>including myself.
You'll never know the truth if you continue to use globalist-cornholed-lame-stream-enemedia-recources.
Get out of the bubble 'baby'

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> I work and everyone I know, knows someone who has either died or is in bad shape or dying from the clot shot>including myself.
> You'll never know the truth if you continue to use globalist-cornholed-lame-stream-enemedia-recources.
> Get out of the bubble 'baby'


Bullshit.  Flat out bullshit.

----------


## crayons

> I work and everyone I know, knows someone who has either died or is in bad shape or dying from the clot shot>including myself.
> You'll never know the truth if you continue to use globalist-cornholed-lame-stream-enemedia-recources.
> Get out of the bubble 'baby'


The above didn't come out right. I'm Not dyin but I personally know a Korean War Vet/My Friend is dying because immediately after
takin the clot shot he developed an aneurysm under his heart...He's Dying because he believed the nonstop fake fear  'media-bullshyyt'

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> The above didn't come out right. I'm Not dyin but I personally know a Korean War Vet/My Friend is dying because immediately after
> takin the clot shot he developed an aneurysm under his heart...He's Dying because he believed the nonstop fake fear  'media-bullshyyt'


There is no evidence anywhere to suggest that any Covid Vaccine is causing aneurisms.

----------


## crayons

> There is no evidence anywhere to suggest that any Covid Vaccine is causing aneurisms.


well right now I'm goin to eat a nice salad after cleanin a strainer basket of tomato's one of my friends just brought me from the valley.
Yep, I cut up 2 maters added 2 fresh brown eggs, an avocado, a little green onion,some lemon juice, some mayo and steak seasoning...did'nt even have ta cook.

Goodnight 'hammerhead'

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> well right now I'm goin to eat a nice salad after cleanin a strainer basket of tomato's one of my friends just brought me from the valley.
> Yep, I cut up 2 maters added 2 fresh brown eggs, an avocado, a little green onion,some lemon juice, some mayo and steak seasoning...did'nt even have ta cook.
> 
> Goodnight 'hammerhead'


Well you've gone from childish trolling to this.

You're in regression mode.

Show me one documented case of any of the covid vaccines causing aneurisms.  Just one.

----------


## phoenyx

> The only case I'm making is that neither you nor the frauds you keep putting up as "sources" can produce any corroborating evidence to support your claims or theirs.
> 
> Supposition, rumor, and innuendo are not facts.


There you go again, insulting people I believe in -.- Instead of insulting friends and others I have read from, you might want to focus more on why I disagree with you on their qualifications.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by crayons
> 
> 
> Than Show Me The Truth, Do it >>> Bring It Bring It Bring It
> 
> 
> 
> I have repeatedly.


In general, you tend to just say what you believe and also tend to insult people you don't agree with. That's not evidence, that's just saying what you believe and insulting people who don't believe as you do.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by crayons
> 
> 
> The above didn't come out right. I'm Not dyin but I personally know a Korean War Vet/My Friend is dying because immediately after
> takin the clot shot he developed an aneurysm under his heart...He's Dying because he believed the nonstop fake fear  'media-bullshyyt'
> 
> 
> There is no evidence anywhere to suggest that any Covid Vaccine is causing aneurisms.


The arrogance of this statement is just astounding. crayons literally just told you his friend developed an aneurysm under his heart after getting a Covid vaccine and you don't even acknowledge his statement as evidence. And there's a lot more evidence that the covid vaccines are dangerous and even lethal. I wrote about a lawsuit back in July that sought to put an immediate halt to Covid vaccines for certain age groups due to strong evidence that they are harming and even killing thousands of Americans. It's here, in case you missed it:
https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...ower-Testimony

----------


## phoenyx

> Well you've gone from childish trolling to this.
> 
> You're in regression mode.
> 
> Show me one documented case of any of the covid vaccines causing aneurisms.  Just one.


Even a mainstream source admits there have been 2 reported cases with the Pfizer vaccine:
https://www.ehealthme.com/vs/pfizer-...urysm-rupture/


I think a lot of people know at this point that Covid vaccines can cause blood clots. There are stories of even young people dying of blood clots shortly after getting a Covid vaccine, such as this one:
Student Gets Leg Amputated After COVID-19 Vaccine, Dies Of Brain Blood Clots


Now what some may not know is that blood clots can speed up the the growth of aneurysms and increase the risk of rupture:
Blood clots speed up aneurysm growth warn researchers

----------


## crayons

> Even a mainstream source admits there have been 2 reported cases with the Pfizer vaccine:
> https://www.ehealthme.com/vs/pfizer-...urysm-rupture/


mmmm...hadn't seen this...I cant take much more of Arlington National Cemetery/South Arlington Texas even after all these years...It grieves me too much...Iwas recently there 
...they're stacked up, runnin them boys through there like its an assembly line...10 minutes under the outdoor shed is all ya get...even if there's a crowd of family/friends

----------


## phoenyx

> mmmm...hadn't seen this...I cant take much more of Arlington National Cemetery/South Arlington Texas even after all these years...It grieves me too much...Iwas recently there 
> ...they're stacked up, runnin them boys through there like its an assembly line...10 minutes under the outdoor shed is all ya get...even if there's a crowd of family/friends


Could you elaborate on this Arlington National Cemetery/South Arlington Texas thing you're speaking of?

----------


## crayons

> Could you elaborate on this Arlington National Cemetery/South Arlington Texas thing you're speaking of?


Yes, It's actually the DFW National that sits just over the City of Arlington TX line.
It's actually in Dallas County but sits so close to Arlington some of us call it Arlington National.

It sits next to Mountain Creek Lake...It's a huge place. A little history most don't know about the area is
back during the Great Depression just south of Arlington/DFW Cemetery is where we had our own version
of The Grapes Of Wrath history where a lot of folks relocated from Oklahoma and lived for free in the woods
during the Depression. Dallas didn't suffer as much as the rest of the country and Folks were able to live in
the woods temporarily and work locally in Duncanville, Grand Prairie, Arlington and Dallas.

Eventually everyone went to work and the area was cleaned out and and the property was divided into tiny little
lots and titles were sold at the Texas State Fair (I forget what year) to anybody who wanted one. Titles are still held world wide
and no one is allowed to build on the property.

I even have or had a title I bought for 20 bucks in a garage sale...I checked it out years ago and it's a 10' x 20' wooded lot.

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## Wildrose

> There you go again, insulting people I believe in -.- Instead of insulting friends and others I have read from, you might want to focus more on why I disagree with you on their qualifications.


I don't give two shits whether you "believe in them".

The fact is that neither you nor they can produce any corroborating evidence in support of their claims.

----------


## Wildrose

> Than Show Me The Truth, Do it >>> Bring It Bring It Bring It


The truth remains the same.

You two have yet to provide a single piece of hard, verifiable, corroborating evidence to back up any of your claims relative to the virus, vaccines, or deaths caused by same.

----------


## Wildrose

> The arrogance of this statement is just astounding. crayons literally just told you his friend developed an aneurysm under his heart after getting a Covid vaccine and you don't even acknowledge his statement as evidence. And there's a lot more evidence that the covid vaccines are dangerous and even lethal. I wrote about a lawsuit back in July that sought to put an immediate halt to Covid vaccines for certain age groups due to strong evidence that they are harming and even killing thousands of Americans. It's here, in case you missed it:
> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...ower-Testimony


That someone supposedly developed an aneurism after a Covid vaccine doesn't even imply a causal relationship.

Do you even understand what an aneurism is?  Your blood vessels are essentially a tube within a tube.  Aneurisms form when the outer tube tears or ruptures and a bubble pops out of the weakened area.

There' zero evidence anywhere to suggest the vaccines are causing aneurisms nor can anyone explain how the vaccines even might possibly cause one.

----------


## Wildrose

> Even a mainstream source admits there have been 2 reported cases with the Pfizer vaccine:
> https://www.ehealthme.com/vs/pfizer-...urysm-rupture/
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people know at this point that Covid vaccines can cause blood clots. There are stories of even young people dying of blood clots shortly after getting a Covid vaccine, such as this one:
> Student Gets Leg Amputated After COVID-19 Vaccine, Dies Of Brain Blood Clots
> 
> 
> Now what some may not know is that blood clots can speed up the the growth of aneurysms and increase the risk of rupture:
> Blood clots speed up aneurysm growth warn researchers


Read your own material.



> 179,630 people reported to have side effects after getting Pfizer BioNTech Covid Vaccine.
> Among them, 2 people (0.0%) have Aortic aneurysm rupture.


There were reports of 2 people developing Aortic aneurisms and nothing to show they were confirmed  nor any explanation for how the vaccine could cause the condition.,

People died every day from aneurisms' blowing out for as long as the condition has even been observed which would be some five hundred years before the first Covid vaccine were even imagined much less administered.

Correlation does not prove causation.

You can't even tell us if those reports were even accurate or what other existing conditions known to lead to aneurisms the patients had if they are true.

----------


## crayons

> The truth remains the same.
> 
> You two have yet to provide a single piece of hard, verifiable, corroborating evidence to back up any of your claims relative to the virus, vaccines, or deaths caused by same.


Doesn't matter anymore, whatever we say, you'll poo-poo it and keep spammin up the board

Even if Jesus Christ himself appeared to you, you'd have nothing good to say.

----------


## Wildrose

> Doesn't matter anymore, whatever we say, you'll poo-poo it and keep spammin up the board
> 
> Even if Jesus Christ himself appeared to you, you'd have nothing good to say.


No if either much less both of you could produce some actual verifiable facts to support your claims I'll be the first to celebrate.

Jesus and I have a very solid decades old relationship forged in fire and blood so leave him out of it.

----------


## crayons

> No if either much less both of you could produce some actual verifiable facts to support your claims I'll be the first to celebrate.
> 
> Jesus and I have a very solid decades old relationship forged in fire and blood so leave him out of it.


It appears the demons need to be cast out of ya...ya might wanna pray n' ask Him for some help

----------


## Wildrose

> It appears the demons need to be cast out of ya...ya might wanna pray n' ask Him for some help


No need but maybe you two should pray for some wisdom and evidence to support your claims and those of your fraudulent quacks, and anti vaxxer nutters you keep citing as sources.

----------


## fmw

There is no proof of this but it is apparent to many virologists that covid (SARScov2) is an engineered virus created in a lab in China using the SARS virus as the source.  It is easy to believe that covid is weaponized flu.  There is plenty of evidence that SARScov2 is not a natural virus.  It is a Frankenstein.  You can find people with different opinions of all kinds including the OP.  The only explanation that makes sense to me is the one I just offered.  Since there is no proof, all we have is opinions.  Pick one.  I picked mine.

----------


## Wildrose

> There is no proof of this but it is apparent to many virologists that covid (SARScov2) is an engineered virus created in a lab in China using the SARS virus as the source.  It is easy to believe that covid is weaponized flu.  There is plenty of evidence that SARScov2 is not a natural virus.  It is a Frankenstein.  You can find people with different opinions of all kinds including the OP.  The only explanation that makes sense to me is the one I just offered.  Since there is no proof, all we have is opinions.  Pick one.  I picked mine.


That's now an impossibility since it's now known the original cases were among workers harvesting bat guano in Chinese caves.

Many people for various reasons want this to be an engineered bio weapon but the facts simply don't support it.

----------


## squidward

> That the question is even being asked is ridiculous.
> 
> Yes it exists.  If it didn't exist the genome could not have been identified and typed.


Where does the isolated and purified genome exist? When was it sequenced and how?

----------


## phoenyx

> Yes, It's actually the DFW National that sits just over the City of Arlington TX line.
> It's actually in Dallas County but sits so close to Arlington some of us call it Arlington National.
> 
> It sits next to Mountain Creek Lake...It's a huge place. A little history most don't know about the area is
> back during the Great Depression just south of Arlington/DFW Cemetery is where we had our own version
> of The Grapes Of Wrath history where a lot of folks relocated from Oklahoma and lived for free in the woods
> during the Depression. Dallas didn't suffer as much as the rest of the country and Folks were able to live in
> the woods temporarily and work locally in Duncanville, Grand Prairie, Arlington and Dallas.
> 
> ...


Ok but, what is it that grieves you so much about it?

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> There you go again, insulting people I believe in -.- Instead of insulting friends and others I have read from, you might want to focus more on why I disagree with you on their qualifications.
> 
> 
> I don't give two shits [snip]


That is why you fail -.-

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by crayons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...


You talk big about how you know the truth, but you spend very little time actually providing evidence that what you believe is true is -actually- true.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...


As I mentioned in another post...

Even a mainstream source admits there have been 2 reported cases with the Pfizer vaccine:
https://www.ehealthme.com/vs/pfizer-...urysm-rupture/

I think a lot of people know at this point that Covid vaccines can cause blood clots. There are stories of even young people dying of blood clots shortly after getting a Covid vaccine, such as this one:
https://www.ibtimes.com/student-gets-leg-amputated-after-covid-19-vaccine-dies-brain-blood-clots-3325327

Now what some may not know is that blood clots can speed up the the growth of aneurysms and increase the risk of rupture:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...searchers.aspx

----------


## Neo

I had my 3rd covid 19 jab on Friday. 

Its never going away, it will always mutate. Taking a vaccine gives everyone a better chance of survival as you get older and weaker.

----------


## crayons

> As I mentioned in another post...
> what some may not know is that blood clots can speed up the the growth of aneurysms and increase the


It's OK. yer liable ta spool/torque up 'rosebud' so bad he'll have an aneurysm.

Just sayin i'm listenin to https://streams.infowars.com/listen.pls?sid=1 is enough ta
send him/her over the edge.

----------


## phoenyx

> It's OK. yer liable ta spool/torque up 'rosebud' so bad he'll have an aneurysm.


Lol, I guess so :-p.




> Just sayin i'm listenin to https://streams.infowars.com/listen.pls?sid=1 is enough ta
> send him/her over the edge.


I have read a bit from infowars, I definitely like some of their stuff, but not much into the podcasts/videos.

----------


## crayons

> I have read a bit from infowars, I definitely like some of their stuff, but not much into the podcasts/videos.


I'm an old radio guy n' the infowars podcasts hold my interest. All videos/TV put me to sleep. This ol' legal alien is on duty 24/7

----------

phoenyx (10-30-2021)

----------


## crayons

> I'm an old radio guy n' the infowars podcasts hold my interest. All videos/TV put me to sleep. This ol' legal alien is on duty 24/7


At 9:00 pm central, I'll pick up John B Wells out of CO. on KNUS 710 AM, Denver-Boulder CO @ News/Talk 710 KNUS | Denvers Local Talk Leader | 710 KNUS - Denver, CO
Saturday 8:00PM-11:00 PM MT
Replay 11PM – 2AM MT

----------


## phoenyx

> I'm an old radio guy n' the infowars podcasts hold my interest. All videos/TV put me to sleep. This ol' legal alien is on duty 24/7


Fair enough :-). I decided to have a look at the infowars site, this article looked good:
Video: Joe Rogan Accuses Google Of âHiding Informationâ On Vaccine Deaths

----------


## Wildrose

> Where does the isolated and purified genome exist? When was it sequenced and how?


Within 2 weeks of the Chinese making the first tissue samples available.  It had already been Isolated and identified by the Chinese even prior to that.

That is how the CDC was able to produce the first tests for Covid in March.

----------


## Wildrose

> That is why you fail -.-


I'm not failing.  You two have yet to produce any corroboration for any of your claims about the supposed harms done by the vaccines.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...



You're failing to effectively communicate. As soon as you start insulting someone, it tends to shut down productive conversation. 




> You two have yet to produce any corroboration for any of your claims about the supposed harms done by the vaccines.


Perhaps it might be best if we just agreed to disagree on that one.

----------


## Wildrose

> You're failing to effectively communicate. As soon as you start insulting someone, it tends to shut down productive conversation. 
> 
> 
> Perhaps it might be best if we just agreed to disagree on that one.


I'm not failing to communicate at all.  My statements are very clear.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> You're failing to effectively communicate. As soon as you start insulting someone, it tends to shut down productive conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not failing to communicate at all. My statements are very clear.


It's not about how clear your statements are, it's about what you're stating. If you insult someone, they're probably not going to want to communicate with you much. That's what I'm getting at.

----------


## Wildrose

> It's not about how clear your statements are, it's about what you're stating. If you insult someone, they're probably not going to want to communicate with you much. That's what I'm getting at.


And yet you both continually respond like a couple of poorly trained parrots who keep repeating the same vacuous nonsense over and over.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> It's not about how clear your statements are, it's about what you're stating. If you insult someone, they're probably not going to want to communicate with you much. That's what I'm getting at.
> 
> 
> And yet you both continually [insults removed]


That is why you fail -.-

----------


## Wildrose

> That is why you fail -.-


I'm not failing at all.  I continue proving you do not have the facts and corroboration to support your claims.

All these posts are is a deflection on your part to hide the fact you cannot show any causation between the vaccines and the reported deaths other than the two confirmed cases caused by anaphylaxis which I posted long ago.

----------


## Wildrose

> You talk big about how you know the truth, but you spend very little time actually providing evidence that what you believe is true is -actually- true.


I've proven hundreds of times now that neither of you can provide any corroboration for your claims.

----------


## squidward

> Within 2 weeks of the Chinese making the first tissue samples available.  It had already been Isolated and identified by the Chinese even prior to that.
> 
> That is how the CDC was able to produce the first tests for Covid in March.


Oh then it should be easy for you to reveal where purified viral RNA exists, where and how it was sequenced, and where the original PCR makers obtained their sample to use as a template

----------

phoenyx (10-31-2021)

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> That is why you fail -.-
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not failing at all.



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. On a positive note, I've noticed that we have made some progress on some subjects.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> You talk big about how you know the truth, but you spend very little time actually providing evidence that what you believe is true is -actually- true.
> 
> 
> I've proven hundreds of times now that neither of you can provide any corroboration for your claims.


Hundreds of times eh :-p? I haven't even seen any -evidence- for your case. Anyway, perhaps it's best if we just agree to disagree on this too.

----------


## Wildrose

> Oh then it should be easy for you to reveal where purified viral RNA exists, where and how it was sequenced, and where the original PCR makers obtained their sample to use as a template


Numerous labs in the US beginning with the CDC which I already cited.

We have you know actual electron micrographs of the virus.





You need however to educate yourself on what RNA viruses are.  They are not strictly made up of RNA alone, they replicate by conscripting your own cells RNA retasking those cells to produce Covid 19 particles instead of simply producing more of your own bodies cells.

Mutational and fitness landscapes of an RNA virus revealed through population sequencing - PubMed

----------


## Wildrose

> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. On a positive note, I've noticed that we have made some progress on some subjects.


You don't want to admit it because I keep proving the fallaciousness of your arguments and the lack of both professional training and honesty your "sources" have.

----------


## Wildrose

> You talk big about how you know the truth, but you spend very little time actually providing evidence that what you believe is true is -actually- true.


I'm not the one making the exceptional claims without being able to show a basis in fact for them.

That's your department.

You can't produce any actual evidence of any substantial number of deaths being caused by Covid Vaccinations.

If you could, you would have done so at least once in the hundreds of posts you've made on this subject.

Instead you two run in here pretty much daily posting some bomb throwing BS from the quacks and anti vaxx nutters claiming vaccines are killing people that the virus actually doesn't exist, etc.

Not once have you shown anything remotely resembling corroboration for those claims in the form of any sort of verifiable evidence.

Then you both get whiney and pissy when your arguments are shredded each time you make them.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...


Round and round and round we go. I keep on trying to direct your attention to the fact that your insults are hindering our discussion and you keep on veering away from actually addressing my claim. It's gotten to the point whether I wonder if I should continue to bother trying to get you to address it, but I'm beginning to think it may be the only way to get you to act in a more civil manner.

----------


## Wildrose

> Round and round and round we go. I keep on trying to direct your attention to the fact that your insults are hindering our discussion and you keep on veering away from actually addressing my claim.


Yes, your endless childish whining while avoiding discussions of fact demonstrate you have nothing else to offer.

If you want to be treated with respect earn it, stop being a baby and stop making claims you can't support.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> You talk big about how you know the truth, but you spend very little time actually providing evidence that what you believe is true is -actually- true.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the one making the exceptional claims without being able to show a basis in fact for them.


I disagree. I think you and the mass media make exceptional claims all the time without being able to show a basis in fact for them. I, for one, am not going to take that lying down. Every time you make a claim that I find no evidence for, I'll point it out. And when you do your usual routine of trying to slip away from actually providing evidence for your claims, I'll point that out too.

----------


## Wildrose

> I disagree. I think you and the mass media make exceptional claims all the time without being able to show a basis in fact for them. I, for one, am not going to take that lying down. Every time you make a claim that I find no evidence for, I'll point it out. And when you do your usual routine of trying to slip away from actually providing evidence for your claims, I'll point that out too.


This is not a course in poor journalism.

You make the claims the onus is on you to substantiate them.

I never have a problem producing the facts that support my assertions.

It isn't my job to prove your case either, it's your job and  you consistently fail miserably at it.

When you grow up avoid the sciences because your first session with peers evaluating your work would leave you huddling in a corner and pissing yourself as you planned a rapid exit from Academia.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Round and round and round we go. I keep on trying to direct your attention to the fact that your insults are hindering our discussion and you keep on veering away from actually addressing my claim. It's gotten to the point whether I wonder if I should continue to bother trying to get you to address it, but I'm beginning to think it may be the only way to get you to act in a more civil manner.
> 
> 
> Yes, your [insults removed]


Much to learn you still have -.-

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> I disagree. I think you and the mass media make exceptional claims all the time without being able to show a basis in fact for them. I, for one, am not going to take that lying down. Every time you make a claim that I find no evidence for, I'll point it out. And when you do your usual routine of trying to slip away from actually providing evidence for your claims, I'll point that out too.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not a course in poor journalism. You make the claims the onus is on you to substantiate them.


Indeed. It's a shame you don't follow that advice yourself.

----------


## Wildrose

> Much to learn you still have -.-


You have yet to show you have anything of value to teach anyone.

If you want respect earn it. In the meantime stop whining and crying and deflecting from the actual discussion.

In the sciences your claims and conclusions will  be torn into by your peers every time you publish an article or thesis and if you can't defend it you'll be shredded along with your claim and driven into obscurity or damned to try and sell your BS on the internet to fools that don't know enough to distinguish be tween fact and fiction.,

----------


## Wildrose

> Indeed. It's a shame you don't follow that advice yourself.


Be specific, what factual claims have I made here that I can't support with evidence?

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...


I'm sure I'm not the only one who recognizes what I'm trying to teach you.

----------


## Wildrose

> I'm sure I'm not the only one who recognizes what I'm trying to teach you.


All you're demonstrating is your own ability to make your case and penchant for deflecting to hide that fact.

Try this in a scholastic debate or in a scientific forum when your thesis or article is challenged and you'll be shown the door in minutes and run out of the scientific community if it continues.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Indeed. It's a shame you don't follow that advice yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Be specific, what factual claims have I made here that I can't support with evidence?


It's not your factual claims I'm concerned about. It's the ones that you've shown no evidence for. Take this one you made a while back, in response to crayon's post #78:




> No, you  proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence, it's not up to me to provide the supporting evidence it's up to you and they to do so.


Here we have a typical example of you making an unsubstantiated claim while simultaneously insulting the person you're responding to. 

crayons -tried- to get you to back up your assertion in his very next post:



> If you think the claims are ridiculous than it should be EZ fer ya to debunk the said claims with facts???


You still haven't even attempted to justify your insulting assertion.

----------


## Wildrose

> It's not your factual claims I'm concerned about. It's the ones that you've shown no evidence for. Take this one you made a while back, in response to crayon's post #78:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have a typical example of you making an unsubstantiated claim while simultaneously insulting the person you're responding to. 
> 
> crayons -tried- to get you to back up your assertion in his very next post:
> 
> 
> You still haven't even attempted to justify your insulting assertion.


That isn't an unsubstantiated claim. It's his source which is unquestionably a crap source which did not provide any evidence based in verifiable fact for their claims.

When your sources are known to be or prove themselves to be crap, nothing they say or publish is credible.

----------


## Wildrose

> It's not your factual claims I'm concerned about. It's the ones that you've shown no evidence for. Take this one you made a while back, in response to crayon's post #78:
> 
> 
> 
> Here we have a typical example of you making an unsubstantiated claim while simultaneously insulting the person you're responding to. 
> 
> crayons -tried- to get you to back up your assertion in his very next post:
> 
> 
> You still haven't even attempted to justify your insulting assertion.


They are your claims, not mine and they cannot be supported by any corroborating evidence.  The fact you cannot show that to be false proves the case.

Either you or your sources can provide hard, verifiable data and facts to support your assertions and theirs or they and you cannot.

You have yet to produce any actual credible evidence to support your claims.  Citing sources that say the same thing yet cannot show them to be true doesn't give  your argument any weight.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'm not the only one who recognizes what I'm trying to teach you.
> 
> 
> 
> All you're demonstrating is your own ability to make your case and penchant for deflecting to hide that fact.


No, that's what -you're- doing :-p. For those in the audience, I'm just trying to point out that if Wildrose would just be more respectful, we'd spend a lot less time arguing about the merits of his tactics and a lot more time actually talking about the main subjects of the threads we're in.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> It's not your factual claims I'm concerned about. It's the ones that you've shown no evidence for. Take this one you made a while back, in response to crayon's post #78:
> 
> Here we have a typical example of you making an unsubstantiated claim while simultaneously insulting the person you're responding to. 
> 
> crayons -tried- to get you to back up your assertion in his very next post:
> 
> ...


Yes, it is. But feel free to try to provide evidence that it isn't.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> It's not your factual claims I'm concerned about. It's the ones that you've shown no evidence for. Take this one you made a while back, in response to crayon's post #78:
> 
> Here we have a typical example of you making an unsubstantiated claim while simultaneously insulting the person you're responding to. 
> 
> crayons -tried- to get you to back up your assertion in his very next post:
> 
> ...



Apparently you've forgotten that we're talking about your claim, not mine. Again, your claim:




> No, you  proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence [snip]



You are free to claim whatever you like, but insulting someone's sources and then refusing to back up your claims that their sources aren't good just makes your credibility go down.

----------


## Wildrose

> No, that's what -you're- doing :-p. For those in the audience, I'm just trying to point out that if Wildrose would just be more respectful, we'd spend a lot less time arguing about the merits of his tactics and a lot more time actually talking about the main subjects of the threads we're in.


Quit your whining and crying.  You get exactly what you've earned, derision and scorn.

----------


## Wildrose

> Yes, it is. But feel free to try to provide evidence that it isn't.


And again it isn't unsubstantiated.




> Originally Posted by *Wildrose* 
> _No, you proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence, it's not up to me to provide the supporting evidence it's up to you and they to do so.
> 
> 
> _


You have yet to provide any actual evidence that is verifiable or presented a credible source that can provide evidence to support your claims or theirs.

----------


## Wildrose

> Apparently you've forgotten that we're talking about your claim, not mine. Again, your claim:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are free to claim whatever you like, but insulting someone's sources and then refusing to back up your claims that their sources aren't good just makes your credibility go down.


And none of your sources has provided any supporting evidence for their claims nor yours.

That's simply a fact.

If you could produce the supporting evidence you're just trolling because you've spent hundreds of posts now avoiding providing same.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> No, that's what -you're- doing :-p. For those in the audience, I'm just trying to point out that if Wildrose would just be more respectful, we'd spend a lot less time arguing about the merits of his tactics and a lot more time actually talking about the main subjects of the threads we're in.
> 
> 
> Quit your [insults removed]


Back to the insult grind -.-

----------


## Wildrose

> Back to the insult grind -.-


You get what you earn.

Give up the childish ankle biting and whining and address the issues instead of continuing with these deflections.

I'm not chasing your red herrings.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...



Anyone can make a claim. What's hard is providing evidence for it. You're great at making claims, but terrible at providing evidence for them. For starters, you frequently don't even try.

----------


## Wildrose

> Anyone can make a claim. What's hard is providing evidence for it. You're great at making claims, but terrible at providing evidence for them. For starters, you frequently don't even try.


If you claims of fact or true finding supporting evidence isn't difficult.

You cannot and you continue simply trying to deflect from that fact with your circular arguments, whining, and crying and using thousands of words to say nothing of value.

Once again, what is the occurence rate of VITT induced clots causing aneurisms?  Cite your source.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Apparently you've forgotten that we're talking about your claim, not mine. Again, your claim:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Again, we're talking about your claim here, not any of mine.

----------


## Wildrose

> Again, we're talking about your claim here, not any of mine.


No once again you are trying to deflect.

Either you can provide evidence your "sources" are reliable or you can't.

Either you can provide the evidence substantiating your claims or you can't.

Hundreds of posts on the same subject and not once have you been able to show us any actual verifiable facts supporting your claims, or anything to show your "sources" have any credibility at all.

Just a cursory glance shows you cannot provide either.

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Back to the insult grind -.-
> 
> 
> 
> You get what you earn.


Unlike you, I don't spend half of my time insulting you. A good thing too, or this conversation wouldn't be going anywhere.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Anyone can make a claim. What's hard is providing evidence for it. You're great at making claims, but terrible at providing evidence for them. For starters, you frequently don't even try.
> 
> 
> 
> If you claims of fact or true finding supporting evidence isn't difficult.


The same is true of your claims. I believe your problem is that your claims frequently aren't claims of fact, in which case finding evidence for them becomes understandably difficult. Your solution is frequently to not even bother to try, but instead try to deflect by asking the other side to provide more evidence for their own claims.

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WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## Wildrose

> The same is true of your claims. I believe your problem is that your claims frequently aren't claims of fact, in which case finding evidence for them becomes understandably difficult. Your solution is frequently to not even bother to try, but instead try to deflect by asking the other side to provide more evidence for their own claims.


Yet you cannot show that to be true any more than you can show any of your assertions relative to the vaccines and covid to be true by providing any corroborating evidence in support of same.

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Again, we're talking about your claim here, not any of mine.
> 
> 
> 
> No once again you are trying to deflect.


No, that'd be you. You seem to have forgotten how we got to this point. I'll remind you. A while ago, you asked:



> Be specific, what factual claims have I made here that I can't support with evidence?


I responded by bringing up the following claim you made concerning crayons' sources that I highly doubt is factual in any regard:




> No, you  proved "sources" that make ridiculous claims that can't be supported by any evidence, it's not up to me to provide the supporting evidence it's up to you and they to do so.


crayons asked you to back up your insulting, somewhat ungrammatical claim. You never did.

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## Wildrose

> No, that'd be you. You seem to have forgotten how we got to this point. I'll remind you. A while ago, you asked:
> 
> 
> I responded by bringing up the following claim you made concerning crayons' sources that I highly doubt is factual in any regard:
> 
> 
> 
> crayons asked you to back up your insulting, somewhat ungrammatical claim. You never did.


If you or Crayon are ever able to provide supporting evidence for any of your claims it will be a first.

Either you can provide support in the form of verifiable facts or you can't and so far neither of you have.

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## squidward

> Numerous labs in the US beginning with the CDC which I already cited.
> 
> We have you know actual electron micrographs of the virus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need however to educate yourself on what RNA viruses are.  They are not strictly made up of RNA alone, they replicate by conscripting your own cells RNA retasking those cells to produce Covid 19 particles instead of simply producing more of your own bodies cells.
> ...


so you don't know where the purified viral RNA exists, or ever existed, or when and how it was sequenced ? 
Surely you must know.

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WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## crayons

> If you or Crayon are ever able to provide supporting evidence for any of your claims it will be a first.
> 
> Either you can provide support in the form of verifiable facts or you can't and so far neither of you have.


What-da-ya want now? >>> Ya too lazy to to do any research on yer own or are ya just a sedentary mean old......? 
Ya sound like a woketardCNN........

Git off yer azz n' go ta work

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> so you don't know where the purified viral RNA exists, or ever existed, or when and how it was sequenced ? 
> Surely you must know.


I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about.  The coronavirus rna sequence is not relevant in the mrna vaccines.  The spike protein sequence is what is important.  KRSFIEDLLFNKV and it is an rna sequence for that protein that is encapsulated in a lipid case and sent out to cells. Or for the DNA vaccine, is is is still just DNA sequence for the protein that is encapsulated in a virus deemed harmless and sent out to cells. 


Also, you write as though there is some perfectly accurate sequence. Being approximately correct is sometimes "good enough" especially since there is no perfect time in a timeline of mutations to "snap the chalkline" and say henceforth now and forever more *this* is the sequence.  

There are research publications that discuss the identification and sequencing of the spike protein.  Do some research on your own.

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## Wildrose

> so you don't know where the purified viral RNA exists, or ever existed, or when and how it was sequenced ? 
> Surely you must know.


It's in every one of the labs working on the virus, various treatments, and vaccines.

One way we know there are variants is the fact we have locked away many samples of the original virus to compare to the virus in new outbreaks.

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## Wildrose

> What-da-ya want now? >>> Ya too lazy to to do any research on yer own or are ya just a sedentary mean old......? 
> Ya sound like a woketardCNN........
> 
> Git off yer azz n' go ta work


You make the claim it's up to you to provide the supporting evidence.

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## squidward

> It's in every one of the labs working on the virus, various treatments, and vaccines.
> 
> One way we know there are variants is the fact we have locked away many samples of the original virus to compare to the virus in new outbreaks.


You are aware that there is no lab claiming to have purified samples of the RNA and that the virus was sequenced in a computer using corona virus libraries?

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phoenyx (11-01-2021),WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## squidward

> I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about.  The coronavirus rna sequence is not relevant in the mrna vaccines.  The spike protein sequence is what is important.

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## squidward

> I don't think you know what the hell you are talking about.  The coronavirus rna sequence is not relevant in the mrna vaccines.  The spike protein sequence is what is important.


The spike protein sequence is part of the genome. The mRNA is complemmentary to that sequence. If course it's relevant

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WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## Call_me_Ishmael

> The spike protein sequence is part of the genome. The mRNA is complemmentary to that sequence. If course it's relevant


I won't dispute that as a matter of practice, they may sequence the whole genome but they only care about the business end of the spike protein. That is why this KRSFIEDLLFNKV is the sequence that is relevant... not the whole genome.

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Wildrose (11-01-2021)

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## phoenyx

> You are aware that there is no lab claiming to have purified samples of the RNA and that the virus was sequenced in a computer using corona virus libraries?


Yep. I still think that Iain Davis' article in Off Guardian said it quite well:

**
The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.


They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHOs statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.


The Wuhan team used 40 rounds of RT-qPCR amplification to match fragments of cDNA (complimentary DNA constructed from sampled RNA fragments) with the published SARS coronavirus genome (SARS-CoV). Unfortunately it isnt clear how accurate the original SARS-CoV genome is either.


In 2003 a team of researchers from from Hong Kong studied 50 patients with severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS). They took samples from 2 of these patients and developed a culture in fetal monkey liver cells. 


They created 30 clones of the genetic material they found. Unable to find evidence of any other known virus, in just one of these cloned samples they found genetic sequences of unknown origin.


Examining these unknown RNA sequences they found 57% match to bovine coronavirus and murine hepatitis virus and deduced it was of the family Coronaviridae. Considering these sequences to suggest a newly discovered SARS-CoV virus (new discoveries being ambrosia for scientists), they designed RT-PCR primers to test for this novel virus. The researchers stated


"Primers for detecting the new virus were designed for RT-PCR detection of this human pneumonia-associated coronavirus genome in clinical samples. Of the 44 nasopharyngeal samples available from the 50 SARS patients, 22 had evidence of human pneumonia-associated coronavirus RNA.


Half of the tested patients, who all had the same symptoms, tested positive for this new alleged virus. No one knows why the other half tested negative for this _novel_ SARS-CoV virus. The question wasnt asked.


This supposed virus had just a 57% sequence match to allegedly known coronavirus. The other 43% was just _there._ Sequenced data was produced and recorded as a new genome as GenBank Accession No. *AY274119*.


The Wuhan researchers subsequently found an 79.6% sequence match to AY274119 and therefore called it a novel strain of SARS-CoV (2019-nCoV  eventually renamed SARS-CoV-2). No one, at any stage of this process, had produced any isolated, purified sample of any virus. All they had were percentage sequence matches to other percentage sequence matches.
**

Source:
COVID19  Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

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## Wildrose

> You are aware that there is no lab claiming to have purified samples of the RNA and that the virus was sequenced in a computer using corona virus libraries?


You have no ability to debate at all but you do a wonderful job of building strawmen and setting them on fire.

There's no reason for labs to make such declarations and never have because they are not catering to moonbat conspiracy nuts.

The genome could not be sequenced with existing models of CV's alone because there are significant differences between various CV's.

What existed prior was the remnants of the work done on the last SARS outbreak in and after 08, but they still had to completely type out this virus in order to complete the work and get a vaccine and tests into production.

The initial typing was done by the Chinese, then WHO and then finally by our own labs as soon as tissue samples were made available.

You keep blurting out shit you're gathering from conspiracy nuts that has no basis in fact.

The fact it is an RNA virus doesn't mean the virus itself consists only of RNA it means it is replicated by the virus hijacking your own RNA and reprogramming it to produce the virus.

The core portion of these viruses is comprised of RNA and RNA is how it is reproduced but there are other components as well.

To be even more specific, this is an mRNA virus meaning it's hijacking your Messenger RNA to reproduce.  There are other types of RNA in every cell as well.

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## Wildrose

> The spike protein sequence is part of the genome. The mRNA is complemmentary to that sequence. If course it's relevant


The spike protien is a physical characteristic of Covid19 and is what your body targets in the production of antibodies.

It is by synthesizing that protein for the vaccine is what gives your body the ability to differentiate this virus from other CV's and to then produce antibodies to target this virus alone.

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## WhoKnows

> You have no ability to debate at all but you do a wonderful job of building strawmen and setting them on fire.


It's amazing how you say this about every single person who disagrees with you. Doesn't matter what they say, how they approach the topic, or anything else for that matter. 

All while you use every Logical Fallacy in the book, and every evasive technique to not answer any questions posed to you. And then spew garbage people are supposed to believe because you said so.

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phoenyx (11-01-2021)

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## Wildrose

> Yep. I still think that Iain Davis' article in Off Guardian said it quite well:
> 
> **
> The *WUHAN researchers stated* that they had effectively pieced the SARS-CoV-2 genetic sequence together by matching fragments found in samples with other, previously discovered, genetic sequences. From the gathered material they found an 87.1% match with SARS coronavirus (SARS-Cov). They used *de novo assembly* and targeted PCR and found 29,891-base-pair which shared a 79.6% sequence match to SARS-CoV.
> 
> 
> They had to use _de novo assembly_ because they had no_ priori_ knowledge of the correct sequence or order of those fragments. Quite simply, the WHO’s statement that Chinese researchers _isolated_ the virus on the 7th January is false.
> 
> 
> ...


Once again proof positive you have no damned clue what you are reading or parroting.

This is the same process that is undergone in determining each new virus.

You start by looking for commonalities with known strains and then identify the unique characteristics of the new virus in order to predict and then develop treatments and vaccines to specifically target the new bug.

It's no different than how we classify animals or plants, just on a smaller scale.

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## Wildrose

> It's amazing how you say this about every single person who disagrees with you. Doesn't matter what they say, how they approach the topic, or anything else for that matter. 
> 
> All while you use every Logical Fallacy in the book, and every evasive technique to not answer any questions posed to you. And then spew garbage people are supposed to believe because you said so.


And of course you are lying again.  It's a phrase I rarely use.  You should look up the definition of "strawman".

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## WhoKnows

> And of course you are lying again.  It's a phrase I rarely use.  You should look up the definition of "strawman".


Amazing how when someone disagrees with you, they are lying. They don't have a difference of opinion. They are liars. 

You are rife with Logical Fallacies.

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## WhoKnows

> Once again proof positive you have no damned clue what you are reading or parroting.
> 
> This is the same process that is undergone in determining each new virus.
> 
> You start by looking for commonalities with known strains and then identify the unique characteristics of the new virus in order to predict and then develop treatments and vaccines to specifically target the new bug.
> 
> It's no different than how we classify animals or plants, just on a smaller scale.


And there it is again. No one can disagree with you without you saying they don't have a damn clue. Which, funny enough, you don't. I would venture to say your thoughts are so backwards, no one can even understand what you're saying to begin with. 

Like that taking vocal chords out of puppies is okay because they don't know any different. Even though the link I put up responding to that clearly indicates it is inhumane and cruel.

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phoenyx (11-01-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Once again proof positive you have no damned clue what you are reading or parroting.


The insults just never stop with you -.-




> This is the same process that is undergone in determining each new virus.


Ironically, I believe you may be fairly accurate there. I think you also know that I don't believe that viruses -can- be isolated, because they are in truth exosomes and exosomes can't survive outside of the host organism which produces them. For anyone in the audience that'd like to learn more on the theory that viruses are in fact exosomes, I invite you to take a look at the thread I made that gets into the evidence that viruses don't exist but are in fact exosomes or some do exist but they aren't contagious:
https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...isease-Spreads

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## phoenyx

> And there it is again. No one can disagree with you without you saying they don't have a damn clue. Which, funny enough, you don't. I would venture to say your thoughts are so backwards, no one can even understand what you're saying to begin with. 
> 
> Like that taking vocal chords out of puppies is okay because they don't know any different. Even though the link I put up responding to that clearly indicates it is inhumane and cruel.


Does what he said really make no sense :-p? My knowledge of biology is admittedly limited to some extent, but I thought that he might be right on how viruses are allegedly discovered. Of course, as I mentioned in my last post, I'm not sure that viruses actually exist per se, but are actually exosomes. At most, I think they aren't contagious. I admit this is far from the mainstream theories on disease, but it's one that several doctors and other researchers have been proposing for a while now.

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## WhoKnows

> Does what he said really make no sense :-p? My knowledge of biology is admittedly limited to some extent, but I thought that he might be right on how viruses are allegedly discovered. Of course, as I mentioned in my last post, I'm not sure that viruses actually exist per se, but are actually exosomes. At most, I think they aren't contagious. I admit this is far from the mainstream theories on disease, but it's one that several doctors and other researchers have been proposing for a while now.


He has moments where there is lucidity to what he says. But it is generally buried deep in the BS he spews. I say would 50:1 drivel to real content. And he is wrong A LOT. But will never admit it. Which makes it worse.

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phoenyx (11-01-2021)

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## phoenyx

> He has moments where there is lucidity to what he says. But it is generally buried deep in the BS he spews. I say would 50:1 drivel to real content. And he is wrong A LOT. But will never admit it. Which makes it worse.


Lol :-p. I will say that I'd hesitate to use the word "drivel", as that'd go beyond what I'd call my insult limit, but I definitely think he says a lot of stuff that's just not true. If that's all he did though, I wouldn't mind so much. I have a friend who believes that the earth is flat. I tried for a bit to persuade him otherwise but after a bit, I just didn't think it was worth my time. But unlike WildRose, he didn't go insulting me for disagreeing with him.

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WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## Wildrose

> The insults just never stop with you -.-
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, I believe you may be fairly accurate there. I think you also know that I don't believe that viruses -can- be isolated, because they are in truth exosomes and exosomes can't survive outside of the host organism which produces them. For anyone in the audience that'd like to learn more on the theory that viruses are in fact exosomes, I invite you to take a look at the thread I made that gets into the evidence that viruses don't exist but are in fact exosomes or some do exist but they aren't contagious:
> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...isease-Spreads


Proving yet again you have no clue what you are talking about.

A virus is not a living entity by most definitions and under the right conditions viral particals can remain viable for years or even decades.

It is only once they have invaded a cell and highjacked that cells Rna or DNA that a virus actually meets the standard criteria for a living organism.

No, viruses are not exosomes, that's ridiculous voodoo crap from moonbat sources with absolutely zero credibility. 

Medical Definition of Virus

QA: What are exosomes, exactly? | BMC Biology | Full Text

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Ironically, I believe you may be fairly accurate there. I think you also know that I don't believe that viruses -can- be isolated, because they are in truth exosomes and exosomes can't survive outside of the host organism which produces them. For anyone in the audience that'd like to learn more on the theory that viruses are in fact exosomes, I invite you to take a look at the thread I made that gets into the evidence that viruses don't exist but are in fact exosomes or some do exist but they aren't contagious:
> https://thepoliticsforums.com/thread...isease-Spreads
> 
> 
> Proving yet again you have no clue what you are talking about.


Did you even click on the link?

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## Wildrose

> Did you even click on the link?


Yes and that you would even entertain the notion that either one of those is true shows you just have no damned clue what you're talking about.

Seriously, when you get out of HS get a decent basic education in the sciences and quit getting your information from such lunatics.

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## WhoKnows

> Did you even click on the link?


Oh yes, I forgot that one. 

If you disagree with Wildrose, not only are you a liar or a retard, but you can't possibly know what you're talking about. It never occurs to him that he is clueless and every one else knows.

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phoenyx (11-01-2021)

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## squidward

> I won't dispute that as a matter of practice, they may sequence the whole genome but they only care about the business end of the spike protein. That is why this KRSFIEDLLFNKV is the sequence that is relevant... not the whole genome.


One must isolate purify the RNA before it is sequenced. The whole strand, or perhaps the portion of the sequence coding for the spike protein just pops out, isolates and sequences itself?

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WhoKnows (11-01-2021)

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## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Wildrose
> ...



Well, at least you clicked on the link. If you really want to debate the subject instead of going on about how everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, that's the thread for it.

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## Wildrose

> Well, at least you clicked on the link. If you really want to debate the subject instead of going on about how everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, that's the thread for it.


It's not debatable, there are no facts that back up your assertions nor those of your "sources".

----------


## Call_me_Ishmael

> One must isolate purify the RNA before it is sequenced. The whole strand, or perhaps the portion of the sequence coding for the spike protein just pops out, isolates and sequences itself?


spike glycoprotein [Bat coronavirus RaTG13] - Protein - NCBI

----------


## phoenyx

> Originally Posted by phoenyx
> 
> 
> Well, at least you clicked on the link. If you really want to debate the subject instead of going on about how everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, that's the thread for it.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not debatable [snip]


You're confusing the ability to debate something with your unwillingness to do it.

----------

