# Stuff and Things > The Pub >  I am not a birther but is this legit?

## Archer

4 Simple questions from a reputable attorney.  This 
really should get your "gray matter" to churning, even 
if you are an Obama fan. I wouldn't want my hero to 
be made out to be a liar, would you?

For all you "anti-Fox News" folks, none of this information came from Fox. All of it can be verified from legitimate sources (Wikipedia, the Kapiolani hospital website itself, 
and a good history book, as noted herein). It is very easy for someone to check out.

4 Simple Questions

1. Back in 1961 people of color were called 'Negroes.' So how can the Obama 'birth certificate' state he is 
"African-American" when the term wasn't even used 
at that time ?


2. The birth certificate that the White House released lists 
Obama's birth as August 4, 1961 & Lists Barack 
Hussein Obama as his father. No big deal, Right ? 
At the time of Obama's birth, it also shows that 
his father is aged 25 years old, and that Obama's 
father was born in " Kenya , East Africa ".
This wouldn't seem like anything of concern, except the 
fact that  Kenya did not even exist until 1963, two 
whole years after Obama's birth, and 27 years after 
his father's birth. How could Obama's father
have been born in a country that did not yet Exist? Up and 
until Kenya  was formed in 1963, it was known as the 
"British East Africa Protectorate". (check it 
below)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya)

3. On the Birth Certificate released by the White House, 
the listed place of birth is "Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital".  This cannot be, because the hospital(s) in question in 1961 were called "KauiKeolani Children's Hospital" and "Kapi'olani Maternity Home", Respectively.  The name did not change to Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until 1978, when these two hospitals merged.  How can this particular name of 
the hospital be on a birth certificate dated 1961 if this name had not yet been applied to it until 1978?
(CHECK IT BELOW)
http://http/http/www.kapiolani.org/women-and-children/about-us/default.aspx> 
(http://www.kapiolani.org/women-and-children/about-us/default.aspx)

Why hasn't this been discussed in the major media?

4. Perhaps a clue comes from Obama's book on his father. He states how proud he is of his father fighting in WW II. I'm not a math genius, so I may need some help from you. Barack Obama's "birth certificate" says his father was 25 years old in 1961 when Obama was born. That should
have put his father's date of birth approximately 1936-if 
my math holds (Honest! I did That without a calculator!!!) Now we need a non-revised history book-one that hasn't been altered to satisfy the author's goals-to verify that WW II was basically between 1939 and 1945. Just how many 3 
year olds fight in Wars? Even in the latest stages of WW II his father wouldn't have been more than 9 years old.  Does that mean that Mr. Obama is a liar, or simply chooses to alter
the facts to satisfy his imagination or political purposes (still  
Obama, our president qualifies as a "liar")?

Very truly yours,
Rich
RICHARD R. SILVERLIEB
Attorney at Law
354 Eisenhower Parkway
Livingston , NJ 07039
AV (r) 
Preeminent(tm)rated since 1981
Highest Possible 
Peer Distinction
(973) 533-0077
Fax (973) 533-1565


"A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than a gun in the hands of 200 million law-abiding citizens."

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Perianne (12-02-2013),usfan (12-01-2013)

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## Dan40

I'm not a birther either.  But obobo has consistently lied about EVERYTHING since he took office.  Why would his BC be any more valid?

If you like your birth certificate, you can keep your birth certificate,,,,,,,,PERIOD.

If you like your birth country, you can lie about your birth country,,,,,,,,PERIOD.

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St James (12-02-2013),usfan (12-01-2013)

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## JustPassinThru

I believe in FACTS.  The FACTS are, the birth certificate belatedly presented was a crude forgery; it was a layered document and using simple tools, persons knowledgeable in PDF files was able to remove some of the layers.

A much better forgery could have been made; this was made as a thumb in the eye of conservatives who demanded a Birth Certificate.  _GIVEN_ that none was originally produced; that a crude forgery has been offered up; and that the Mock-And-Smear movement had been unleashed at "birthers"...I say where there's smoke there's fire.  And where there's a forged document there's probably not a genuine one.

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## Network

Still struggling over this?

Barry Davis is your president and it doesn't matter where he was born, he's a con artist, because the people with power wanted him there.

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## DonGlock26

#1 is wrong.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2011/...ate/index.html

#2 is wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Kenya


#3 appears to be wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapiola...te-timeline-10


Obama lied about his father:








> May 27, 2008, 6:27 pm
> *Obama’s Staff Corrects WWII Story*By JEFF ZELENYLAS VEGAS – The family tree of Senator Barack Obama has been the subject of much discussion – and inspection – since he arrived on the national political stage four years ago.
> In response to a question at a Memorial Day appearance in New Mexico, Mr. Obama said an uncle helped liberate the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz during World War II. The problem? That story didn’t track with history, considering Auschwitz was liberated by Soviet forces.
> So on Tuesday, the campaign acknowledged the senator made a mistake and mentioned the wrong camp. It actually was Buchenwald, according to spokesman Bill Burton.
> 
> “Senator Obama’s family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II – especially the fact that his great uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald,” Mr. Burton said in a statement. “Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically.”
> The correct story is that Mr. Obama’s great uncle, Charlie Payne – his grandmother’s brother – actually helped liberate Ohrdruf, a sub-camp of Buchenwald. Mr. Payne was a member of the 89th Infantry Division.
> The Republican National Committee, which carefully tracks Mr. Obama’s statements, first distributed a copy of a story that questioned the Memorial Day claim.
> 
> http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ts-wwii-story/

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## Irascible Crusader

are we still holding out hope that a forged birth certificate is going to undo all the damage by the Magic Negro?   Oh, and another question.  A lot of conservatives are pushing for Ted Cruz to run for GOP president. Are we going to ignore the fact he was born in Canada?

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## Archer

> are we still holding out hope that a forged birth certificate is going to undo all the damage by the Magic Negro?   Oh, and another question.  A lot of conservatives are pushing for Ted Cruz to run for GOP president. Are we going to ignore the fact he was born in Canada?


I thought he was Mexican?

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## Network

I'm going to ignore that fact that any of these frauds are going to attempt to place themselves as overlords of this ponzi scheme called America.

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## Roadmaster

I don't mind being called a birther. People let this name cause them not to say something or investigate. Things don't add up but am I 100% sure, no.

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## Irascible Crusader

> I thought he was Mexican?


Nyet.

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St James (12-02-2013)

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## Network

Same picture, bro.  Look how her gigantic poof doesn't match the pitch black hair around her head.

It's a forgery, just like that birth certificate saying he was the son of a Kenyan.

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## DonGlock26

> are we still holding out hope that a forged birth certificate is going to undo all the damage by the Magic Negro?   Oh, and another question.  A lot of conservatives are pushing for Ted Cruz to run for GOP president. Are we going to ignore the fact he was born in Canada?


No, but he's a NBC.




> The Nationality Act of 1940 outlined which children became “nationals and citizens of the United States at birth.” The law stated that a person is a U.S. citizen if he or she were born in United States; born outside the U.S. to parents who were both citizens; found in the United States without parents and no proof of birth elsewhere; or if a person has been born to one American parent, provided that parent has spent a certain number of years in the United States.
> The single-American parent requirement has been amended a few times, said UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh.*As it applies to people born between 1952 and 1986, they must have a parent who was a U.S. citizen for at least 10 years, including five after the age of 14, in order for the baby to be considered a natural-born citizen*.
> 
> http://www.texastribune.org/2012/08/...uz-be-preside/


The controversy about Obama was that he may have been born out of the country AND that his mother was 18. She would have needed to be 19 for Obama to be a NBC under the laws in 1961. (see the red part)

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## Irascible Crusader

> No, but he's a NBC.
> 
> 
> 
> The controversy about Obama was that he may have been born out of the country AND that his mother was 18. She would have needed to be 19 for Obama to be a NBC under the laws in 1961. (see the red part)


So which of those provisions applies to Cruz?

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## DonGlock26

> So which of those provisions applies to Cruz?





> *So how does all of this apply to Ted Cruz?
> 
> *
> 
>  Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, came to the U.S. in 1957 to study at the University of Texas. He did not become a U.S. citizen until 2005.
>  Cruz’s mother, Eleanor Darragh, was born in Delaware and later moved to Houston. She graduated from Rice University in 1956.  By virtue of being born in the United States, she is a citizen. Because  she spent most of her life before Ted Cruz was born in the U.S., he  also qualified as U.S. citizen at birth.
>  “Ted Cruz didn’t naturalize. He was natural at birth,” said Spiro, the Temple professor
> 
> http://www.texastribune.org/2012/08/...uz-be-preside/

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## Rudy2D

> I thought he was Mexican?


_Mexican-American_; but back in 1970 they were commonly referred-to as "Spics."

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## Irascible Crusader

> ......


I hope that's true because Ted Cruz one of very few Republicans with balls and conservative principles.

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DonGlock26 (12-02-2013)

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## shaarona

> 4 Simple questions from a reputable attorney.  This 
> really should get your "gray matter" to churning, even 
> if you are an Obama fan. I wouldn't want my hero to 
> be made out to be a liar, would you?
> 
> For all you "anti-Fox News" folks, none of this information came from Fox. All of it can be verified from legitimate sources (Wikipedia, the Kapiolani hospital website itself, 
> and a good history book, as noted herein). It is very easy for someone to check out.
> 
> 4 Simple Questions
> ...


Obama's father was born in a village in Kenya Colony of British East Africa. I believe he came from a Muslim family but converted to Anglican and then back to Islam. Not sure.

I can't believe this lawyer is too stupid to trace the expansion and development of the hospital facilities.

I think that if you check.. The questions are lies.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...-long-form.pdf

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## shaarona

> No, but he's a NBC.
> 
> 
> 
> The controversy about Obama was that he may have been born out of the country AND that his mother was 18. She would have needed to be 19 for Obama to be a NBC under the laws in 1961. (see the red part)


You are confused.. Anne Dunham was NOT a naturalized citizen.. She was born a US citizen.. so the ten year waiting period didn't apply to her.

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## shaarona

Nowhere on Barack Obama's birth certificate does the term "African-American"  appear.  The space for "Race of Father" is filled in with the word "African,"  which at the time was a descriptor that blacks who were actually native-born  Africans (like Barack Obama's father was)
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...2wc9ZAr1BXS.99


The former Kapi'olani Maternity Home became the Kapi'olani Maternity &  Gynecological Hospital (where Barack Obama was born) in 1931, and  it retained that appellation until 1971, when its name was shortened to  Kapi'olani Hospital.  The Kauikeolani Children's Hospital (where Barack Obama  was not born) was a separate entity which merged with the Kapi'olani  Hospital in 1978 to become the Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women and Children.  

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...2wc9ZAr1BXS.99

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## Max Rockatansky

> I hope that's true because Ted Cruz one of very few Republicans with balls and conservative principles.


Like McCain, who was born in Panama while his military father and mother were stationed there, was legal to be President, Cruz is also.

I don't buy the birther crap about Obama.   From the beginning, if there was any dirt on Obama, the Hillary Clinton campaign would have dug it up and used it.  The Republicans would have been right behind her.

Secondly, our intelligent services would have noticed any problems and those problems would have been leaked.  No one wants a sleeper agent as President much less with their hand on the nuclear launch button.

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## shaarona

> Like McCain, who was born in Panama while his military father and mother were stationed there, was legal to be President, Cruz is also.
> 
> I don't buy the birther crap about Obama.   From the beginning, if there was any dirt on Obama, the Hillary Clinton campaign would have dug it up and used it.  The Republicans would have been right behind her.
> 
> Secondly, our intelligent services would have noticed any problems and those problems would have been leaked.  No one wants a sleeper agent as President much less with their hand on the nuclear launch button.


The QUESTIONS formulated are lies.

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## Max Rockatansky

> 1. Back in 1961 people of color were called 'Negroes.' So how can the Obama 'birth certificate' state he is 
> "African-American" when the term wasn't even used 
> at that time ?
> 
> 
> 2. The birth certificate that the White House released lists 
> Obama's birth as August 4, 1961 & Lists Barack 
> Hussein Obama as his father. No big deal, Right ? 
> At the time of Obama's birth, it also shows that 
> ...


1.  Where does it say African-American?  His father's race is African and his mother's is Caucasian.

2.  The wiki link points out both that Kenya didn't become fully independent until December 1963 since it was still British East Africa, but it was still the territory of Kenya.  Hence, the father's birthplace was Kenya, East Africa.  That's like saying Texas, United States of America.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/e...a/haxbrea.html

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/e.../haxkenya.html

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## Archer

> 1.  Where does it say African-American?  His father's race is African and his mother's is Caucasian.
> 
> 2.  The wiki link points out both that Kenya didn't become fully independent until December 1963 since it was still British East Africa, but it was still the territory of Kenya.  Hence, the father's birthplace was Kenya, East Africa.  That's like saying Texas, United States of America.
> 
> http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/e...a/haxbrea.html
> 
> http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/e.../haxkenya.html


Hey I posed the question :Smile:  I do not bother with checking this stuff out because I know many on this forum have already done it. I can post it and get results.

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do believe that there is more than one BC of his floating around saying he is from somewhere other than the US so he could defraud his way through school (I do believe he did something illegal as his records are sealed).

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## Max Rockatansky

> I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do believe that there is more than one BC of his floating around saying he is from somewhere other than the US so he could defraud his way through school (I do believe he did something illegal as his records are sealed).


If that were true, it would have been revealed by political opponents even before the election.   

I think there is enough factual evidence on partisan politicians,  regardless of stripe,  that it is self-defeating to make up lies and fraudulent documents about them.  Not only does that create confusion among non-partisan voters, but if caught, will work against those perpetrating the fraud.

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## shaarona

> Hey I posed the question I do not bother with checking this stuff out because I know many on this forum have already done it. I can post it and get results.
> 
> I am not a conspiracy theorist. I do believe that there is more than one BC of his floating around saying he is from somewhere other than the US so he could defraud his way through school (I do believe he did something illegal as his records are sealed).


If there is another BC out there, it was forged by the birthers.


No way he was born overseas.. US Consulates keep records.. and you can't just waltz into the US with a new baby that is undocumented.

The birthers are a real dumb bunch.

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## Archer

> If there is another BC out there, it was forged by the birthers.
> 
> 
> No way he was born overseas.. US Consulates keep records.. and you can't just waltz into the US with a new baby that is undocumented.
> 
> The birthers are a real dumb bunch.


So his records are sealed?

As far as I know there is no way to prove that either way. I never said he was no a US native but I have seen people pull some shit.

Hell; fraud was committed to get him in the primaries in at least one state (yes there have been convictions in a US court) and that is put on the back burner. With all the shit he has pulled and covered up why would I not suspect that he committed fraud to get into school and out of paying?

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## shaarona

> So his records are sealed?
> 
> As far as I know there is no way to prove that either way. I never said he was no a US native but I have seen people pull some shit.
> 
> Hell; fraud was committed to get him in the primaries in at least one state (yes there have been convictions in a US court) and that is put on the back burner. With all the shit he has pulled and covered up why would I not suspect that he committed fraud to get into school and out of paying?


Everyone's records are sealed.. You can't get my college transcripts unless I sign off to let you.

Obama was a legacy student at Harvard... and there's the problem of no international airport in Kenya until 1978..

There's Indonesian citizenship law.. Obama couldn't meet even the first criteria.

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## Max Rockatansky

> So his records are sealed?


They aren't sealed.  This is what I mean about people fabricating lies.  I don't believe you are doing this, Archer, but you are certainly passing along those lies without checking on the facts first.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/



> Q: Are Obama’s early records “sealed”?
> A: No. Many records that presidential candidates don’t ordinarily release do remain confidential, but they are not “sealed” by a court. The 16 claims in a widely distributed graphic are mostly false or distorted.


http://www.factcheck.org/hot-topics/

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...occidental.asp

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## Archer

> Everyone's records are sealed.. You can't get my college transcripts unless I sign off to let you.
> 
> Obama was a legacy student at Harvard... and there's the problem of no international airport in Kenya until 1978..
> 
> There's Indonesian citizenship law.. Obama couldn't meet even the first criteria.


Uhhh? What has Kenya got to do with a lie to get over?

He will not allow his records to be scrutinized. Shit do they require transcripts to be president? Many jobs do.

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## Archer

> They aren't sealed.  This is what I mean about people fabricating lies.  I don't believe you are doing this, Archer, but you are certainly passing along those lies without checking on the facts first.
> 
> http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/
> 
> 
> http://www.factcheck.org/hot-topics/
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...ertificate.asp
> 
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama...occidental.asp


I am not talking about the birth cert.

What I am doing is just trying to get information for my own edification. I do not get in on birther threads or read them. I got that OP in an email and just wanted to find out from people who have already researched it.

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## Max Rockatansky

> I am not talking about the birth cert.
> 
> What I am doing is just trying to get information for my own edification. I do not get in on birther threads or read them. I got that OP in an email and just wanted to find out from people who have already researched it.


My opinion is that anything that talks about false birth certificates and sealed records is a fraud and should be ignored for the reasons posted previously.

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## DonGlock26

> You are confused.. Anne Dunham was NOT a naturalized citizen.. She was born a US citizen.. so the ten year waiting period didn't apply to her.


It is you that is confused. Read the article and un-confuse yourself.

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## JustPassinThru

> It is you that is confused. Read the article and un-confuse yourself.


She's not confused; not in the way you mean.  She's an obamabot.

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## shaarona

> It is you that is confused. Read the article and un-confuse yourself.


Anne Dunham was a US citizen from birth.. There is no time limits on when her citizenship kicks in.

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## Calypso Jones

damn good thing too.  She was a sucky mother and a sucky human being.

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