# Stuff and Things > Guns and Self Defense >  Its Time for Conservatives to Stop Defending Police

## Invayne

Small towns with SWAT teams and tanks? The beacon of freedom in the  world is quickly becoming a police state, and no one seems to be paying  much attention.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...lice-j-delgado

Why the militarization? Listen to this Israeli soldier and find out. You can fast forward to around the 25 or 30 minute mark, but I'd recommend you listen to the whole thing....

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fyrenza (07-30-2014),michaelr (07-30-2014),Roadmaster (07-30-2014),Roberta (08-03-2014),St James (07-30-2014)

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## EvilObamaClone

The militarization is for turning America into a tyranny, not just slowly, but going full bore.

It will start when they come for the firearms and start purging people under false pretenses.

There are you tube videos that claim they are preparing for another civil war.

I think i'd better start collecting Paladin Press books myself.

Here is one such video:




I don;t know how true this is, but there is quite a bit of strange stuff happening in America, such as the militarization of the police.

The problem is the military is very powerful and will win almost any form of guerrilla warfare will most likely fail.

Here's a video about the High River gun grab:

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michaelr (07-30-2014)

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## East of the Beast

I must admit I don't understand.It's either you are paranoid or I'm blissfully ignorant.With the escalating drug problems,gang violence and general lawlessness we see today.,what do you expect? A bunch of Barney Fifes'? Are all cops pure? Absolutely not,I said I may be ignorant but I'm not stupid.But, as I get older I for one feel more comfortable with a strong police presence in my community. I've  got plenty of fire power for home defense but a strong police force means I'm less likely to have to use it.As for the police state thing, I just don't see it.Not yet anyway.You may want to back off watching the Hollywood futuristic propaganda movies.Although Detroit and Chicago could use a Judge Dredd or two.

PS If it ever would come down to a police state I think you would be surprised to see how many PD's would defect.Most cops I know are good people who are dedicated to their job.

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Devil505 (07-30-2014),DonGlock26 (08-03-2014),LongTermGuy (07-30-2014),Old Ridge Runner (07-31-2014),Sheldonna (08-03-2014)

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## Invayne

> I must admit I don't understand.It's either you are paranoid or I'm blissfully ignorant.With the escalating drug problems,gang violence and general lawlessness we see today.,what do you expect? A bunch of Barney Fifes'? Are all cops pure? Absolutely not,I said I may be ignorant but I'm not stupid.But, as I get older I for one feel more comfortable with a strong police presence in my community. I've  got plenty of fire power for home defense but a strong police force means I'm less likely to have to use it.As for the police state thing, I just don't see it.Not yet anyway.You may want to back off watching the Hollywood futuristic propaganda movies.Although Detroit and Chicago could use a Judge Dredd or two.
> 
> PS If it ever would come down to a police state I think you would be surprised to see how many PD's would defect.Most cops I know are good people who are dedicated to their job.


Did you even watch the video? You really can't see what's happening around you? I don't watch those stupid movies...perhaps you're watching too much Mayberry RFD. :Dontknow:

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michaelr (07-30-2014)

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## Roadmaster

> Did you even watch the video? You really can't see what's happening around you? I don't watch those stupid movies...perhaps you're watching too much Mayberry RFD.


 I already knew some NY city police were training there. It's been going on. I am pretty sure it's not all states yet but maybe some swat teams. The cops in NC and SC I know haven't been but they are small time country cops.

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## fyrenza

I'm pretty conservative, and I won't put up with the abuses,

but ...  Which cities are sending their police for this sort of training?

I've said something about the "Escape From" movies,
and if our economy does collapse,
there is going to be a need to control the situation.

Sad, but true.

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## fyrenza

Those of us/US that are just "regular" citizens 
CANNOT AFFORD to make enemies of the very folks that would protect us/US...

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## michaelr

The militarized police is about population control, not law enforcement. In this country of ours, the scum government set rules that make every act we do a potential act of terrorism. Hence your NSA spy grids and the rest. Hell, the government figures it can steal land from rightful owners, and they use these mercenaries, and then the bureaucratic agencies have their own mercenaries, do enforce this theft.

Yea, I'd say some are ignorant, and I'll say some are just liars. This is a huge issue, and supporters of big government, in either party, support the militarized police. Their families will pay the price, that's unfortunate, but for me, what's more unfortunate is because of these cowardly fucks, my family will pay the price.

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Invayne (07-30-2014)

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## Roadmaster

> Those of us/US that are just "regular" citizens 
> CANNOT AFFORD to make enemies of the very folks that would protect us/US...


 You think they would but when those riots were taking place after Rodney King incident  most police didn't go to the area in LA.

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## fyrenza

I'm truly h0pping that, just like everything else they touch, this Big, Fat Plan will backfire on them!   :Smiley ROFLMAO: 

I want the police to be my friends, and family and neighbors,
and to feel benevolent towards me and mine.

In the big cities, ^that^ isn't possible, anymore ~ it truly IS that Out-of-Control,
and "the problem:" isn't just color, nor religion, nor even political lean ~

when the shit hits the fan, there will just be too many folks to have to try to deal with,
the streets will become war zones,
and everyone will become suspect.

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## Invayne

> but ...  Which cities are sending their police for this sort of training?


https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org.../homeland.html

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## Invayne

> The militarized police is about population control, not law enforcement. In this country of ours, the scum government set rules that make every act we do a potential act of terrorism. Hence your NSA spy grids and the rest.


http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014...ext-level.html

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michaelr (07-30-2014)

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## fyrenza

> You think they would but when those riots were taking place after Rodney King incident  most police didn't go to the area in LA.


'91 wasn't such a "good" year ...

The police had every reason to fear for their lives ~
their brothers in blue made an horrible mistake,
and put *all* of their lives at risk,

and they all knew a guilt and shame that made them want to hide from The Truth.

I didn't miss your point.  :Wink: 

Just like they couldn't have walked up to anyone and said that it wasn't them, personally,

we won't be able to do that with the police, either.

Karma's a bitch.

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## fyrenza

> https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org.../homeland.html


I see a lack of planning in that the smaller forces that surround those cities aren't included.

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## fyrenza

It's going "the other way," right now ~

they are being indoctrinated into being agents of the state/gov,

but WE could change that, before it's too late for us/US.

You can draw more flies with honey, than with vinegar, as the old adage goes.

I'd much rather that police wanted to protect us/US than gov, but there IS a cost.

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## BleedingHeadKen

> Small towns with SWAT teams and tanks? The beacon of freedom in the  world is quickly becoming a police state, and no one seems to be paying  much attention.
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...lice-j-delgado
> 
> Why the militarization? Listen to this Israeli soldier and find out. You can fast forward to around the 25 or 30 minute mark, but I'd recommend you listen to the whole thing....


The difficulty is that most conservatives are in awe of authority. It wasn't the conservatives who bucked King George III.

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## East of the Beast

> The difficulty is that most conservatives are in awe of authority. It wasn't the conservatives who bucked King George III.


In awe? C'mon dude The Tea Party is not in awe of our present government at all.You are dead wrong about that.I have no idea the political lean of every early patriot only that they wanted to be free from tyranny.What we are in awe of is a society ruled by the fair and equitable application of law.We go about are lives obeying those laws but much like the first patriots we will rise up and fight when they infringe upon are God given liberty.We ain't there yet.

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DonGlock26 (08-03-2014)

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## Old Ridge Runner

If and when the stuff hits the fan and the police aren't out there doing their job, the cop haters here are going to be pissing and moaning again, especially if some thug whacks them up side the head.

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Devil505 (07-31-2014),DonGlock26 (08-03-2014)

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## BleedingHeadKen

> In awe? C'mon dude The Tea Party is not in awe of our present government at all.


Whether they are in awe of the government itself, they are in awe of authority, which includes the enforcement arm of government. 




> You are dead wrong about that.I have no idea the political lean of every early patriot only that they wanted to be free from tyranny.


5 frogs are sitting on a log. 4 of them decide to jump off? How many are now sitting on the log?   Wanting something is not the same as doing something.

Revolution is radical, particularly when it is the overthrow of the established order, and that requires radical ideas and radical action.

One has to ask. If those people wanted to be free of tyranny, how did they even know that they were living under tyranny? Someone must have been telling them, and telling them for some time before they decided to take such extreme action. The Declaration of Independence is a radical document, expressing radical - and liberal/libertarian - notions of natural rights. 




> What we are in awe of is a society ruled by the fair and equitable application of law.


Being overly enamored with legislation, which you refer to as "law" is yet another conservative trait. The DOI was based on natural law, not legislation. The legislation of today that conservatives uphold is often diametrically opposed to natural law.




> We go about are lives obeying those laws but much like the first patriots we will rise up and fight when they infringe upon are God given liberty.We ain't there yet.


We've been there for well over 150 years. How long will we have to wait before you finally decide that, well, this time enough is enough?

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Invayne (07-31-2014)

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## Katzndogz

> You think they would but when those riots were taking place after Rodney King incident  most police didn't go to the area in LA.


No.  They kept those in that area in LA from leaving.

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## old wood

> I already knew some NY city police were training there. It's been going on. I am pretty sure it's not all states yet but maybe some swat teams. The cops in NC and SC I know haven't been but they are small time country cops.


Swat teams ain't the typical local cop. How often in real life do you see a swat Team or Tac Squad?  How often do you see a Swat Team TANK?  Technically.. more an armored car   A real tank is not  even sensible in any possible domestivc matter short of a full civil war.

Gangs have a bunch of weapons and do a bunch of crimes.   We do not want to pay the average cop enough to risk death.. so....there's tactics and gear to  make it possible to overwhelm the well armed bad guy. If you want to be the well armed bad guy...I can see how that's a problem.

Conservatives...moderates,liberals... want the LAW to prevail, the criminals to be at a disadvantage. There's a fantasy Fringe on the far right that TALKS about  some power grab..a civil war..and they wish they could out gun the police.  Won't happen.   They ain't at all "conservative". Extreme ain't Conservative.  The Batshit  .01% ain't conservative.. they are NUTS.

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Devil505 (08-02-2014)

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## old wood

How many Police officers are in America?  A lot. So....a cop choked a man to death. A cop punces out an unarmed woman on the freeway...there's other aabuses not on video..I am sure but POLICY has improved and no city wants to pay out MILLIONS cause dsome rogue cop had a hard on.   It is politics and MONEY and  you do NOT want nutjobs getting off the leash. It does not happen much.  Now and then..it's inevitable.  Police like anyone can fuck up.   That's not the plan.   Cops are mostly a local matter where a city, town, county has to have realistic standards.

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Devil505 (08-02-2014)

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## Sled Dog

> Those of us/US that are just "regular" citizens 
> CANNOT AFFORD to make enemies of the very folks that would protect us/US...


MORE importantly, we who want to keep our freedom CAN'T PRETEND those who would rule us aren't trying to seize our local officer friendlies right now.  Because that's what they are doing.

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Invayne (08-02-2014)

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## Sled Dog

> How many Police officers are in America? A lot. So....a cop choked a man to death. A cop punces out an unarmed woman on the freeway...there's other aabuses not on video..I am sure but POLICY has improved and no city wants to pay out MILLIONS cause dsome rogue cop had a hard on. It is politics and MONEY and you do NOT want nutjobs getting off the leash. It does not happen much. Now and then..it's inevitable. Police like anyone can fuck up. That's not the plan. Cops are mostly a local matter where a city, town, county has to have realistic standards.


Naturally the Obama supporters are also to police supporters.

There's a video from Los Angeles where the pigs arrested a man for taking video of their arrests-in-progress.  The pigs arrested him and shot his dog.

Agreed, he should have left his pooch in the car...and the cops should have called in Animal Control to handle the dog.   Cops LIKE shooting dogs.  It makes them feel like real men or something.

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## Sled Dog

> Swat teams ain't the typical local cop. How often in real life do you see a swat Team or Tac Squad? How often do you see a Swat Team TANK? Technically.. more an armored car A real tank is not even sensible in any possible domestivc matter short of a full civil war.
> 
> Gangs have a bunch of weapons and do a bunch of crimes. We do not want to pay the average cop enough to risk death.. so....there's tactics and gear to make it possible to overwhelm the well armed bad guy. If you want to be the well armed bad guy...I can see how that's a problem.
> 
> Conservatives...moderates,liberals... want the LAW to prevail, the criminals to be at a disadvantage. There's a fantasy Fringe on the far right that TALKS about some power grab..a civil war..and they wish they could out gun the police. Won't happen. They ain't at all "conservative". Extreme ain't Conservative. The Batshit .01% ain't conservative.. they are NUTS.


The reality is there's a power grab in process.

The reality is that it's the unconstitutional laws and the selective enforcement thereof that drives 90% of innercity crime and 100% of drug relate crime.     Eliminate the unconstitutional law and the violence related to those unconstitutional laws go away.

Example:  

If cocaine was lawful, as the Constitution makes perfectly plain is should be, there would be no central american drug cartels using invaders to carry product across the US border, and the US Border Patrol could absorb the DEA brownshirts to make for better border enforcement, a Constitutional imperative of the national government.

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Invayne (08-02-2014)

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## hoytmonger

> *I'm blissfully ignorant.*
> 
> Most cops I know are good people who are dedicated to their job.


Nuff said.

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Invayne (08-02-2014)

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## Sled Dog

> '91 wasn't such a "good" year ...
> 
> The police had every reason to fear for their lives ~
> their brothers in blue made an horrible mistake,
> and put *all* of their lives at risk,
> 
> and they all knew a guilt and shame that made them want to hide from The Truth.
> 
> I didn't miss your point. 
> ...


What "mistake" was that, arresting a crack head ex-felon who was driving at extremely high speed who could not be tasered and who was violently resisting arrest?

You're not allowed to re-write the story of that bi-sexual drug addled violent pervert while Americans are still alive to correct you.

NOTHING wrong occured during the arrest of Rodney King.

The arresting officers were stipped of their constitution protection against double-jeopardy in an illegal second trial after being acquitted of all charges by a jury of their peers.

The pigs do many things wrong.

Arresting Rodney King was not one of them.

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## EvilObamaClone

Well, not all police are bad. This is a police protest against the Safe Act.

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## East of the Beast

> Nuff said.


You'd make a good left wing media drone.Lifting quotes out of context is a page right out of the playbook.

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## JustPassinThru

I love the libburl approach here.  They've made the population feral, by gutting morality and functional education from the culture; and then they're shocked - _SHOCKED!!_ - that the police start using aggressiveness in exercise of their responsibilities.

London bobbies used to be armed with nothing but nightsticks.  That works when the population accepts their direction and isn't given to pulling arms on the cops.  It would NOT work in police-patrols in Baghdad.

This is YOUR baby, libburls.  You made our society a fragmented culture with half or more of the people contemptuous of law and order and America and other people.  OWN IT.

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East of the Beast (08-03-2014)

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## Invayne

> I love the libburl approach here.  They've made the population feral, by gutting morality and functional education from the culture; and then they're shocked - _SHOCKED!!_ - that the police start using aggressiveness in exercise of their responsibilities.
> 
> London bobbies used to be armed with nothing but nightsticks.  That works when the population accepts their direction and isn't given to pulling arms on the cops.  It would NOT work in police-patrols in Baghdad.
> 
> This is YOUR baby, libburls.  You made our society a fragmented culture with half or more of the people contemptuous of law and order and America and other people.  OWN IT.


No, I put the blame on the fascist neocon scumbags that consider everyone a threat and a "domestic terrorist", living in fear of boogeymen under every bed.

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## hoytmonger

> You'd make a good left wing media drone.Lifting quotes out of context is a page right out of the playbook.


I didn't take anything out of context.

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## Sled Dog

> No, I put the blame on the fascist neocon scumbags that consider everyone a threat and a "domestic terrorist", living in fear of boogeymen under every bed.


Well, you're wrong.

The essence of liberalism is totalitarianism, and the essence of totalitarianism is the ultimate authority of the police to terrorize the population.

RINO's, aka your "neocons", are not creative in any way and merely take advantage of attitudes and powers the fascists establish for their own use.

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## hoytmonger

> Well, you're wrong.
> 
> The essence of liberalism is totalitarianism, and the essence of totalitarianism is the ultimate authority of the police to terrorize the population.
> 
> RINO's, aka your "neocons", are not creative in any way and merely take advantage of attitudes and powers the fascists establish for their own use.


No, you're wrong.

The essence of the state is totalitarianism... no matter which party you root for.

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## Sled Dog

> No, you're wrong.
> 
> The essence of the state is totalitarianism... no matter which party you root for.


Of course not.

The essense of the state is the people.

If the people are weak (ignorance is weakness - ALL anarchists are ignorant) and accept dictators, they get totalitarianism.

If the people are strong and also knowlegeable about their past and about human nature, the state they create and demand rejects tyrants and requires laws by the consent of the governed.

Until the "Progressives" began raping the Constituiton and emasculating the media, the United States was replete with informed and wilful citizens who rejected tyranny.  

Once the fascists started gaining strength, they and their tools the anarchists took bigger and bigger chunks of liberty, transforming the limited state to the conditions you see and desire today.

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## Invayne

> Well, you're wrong.
> 
> The essence of liberalism is totalitarianism, and the essence of totalitarianism is the ultimate authority of the police to terrorize the population.
> 
> RINO's, aka your "neocons", are not creative in any way and merely take advantage of attitudes and powers the fascists establish for their own use.


You have to admit that the escalation of the police state started after 9/11, and the neocons love keeping us in a constant state of fear because everyone is a potential terrorist. Like Lindsay Graham said, America is a battlefield now...stay scared and don't trust anybody....

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## Sled Dog

> You have to admit that the escalation of the police state started after 9/11, and the neocons love keeping us in a constant state of fear because everyone is a potential terrorist. Like Lindsay Graham said, America is a battlefield now...stay scared and don't trust anybody....




You have to admit that almost all of the text of the PATRIOT Act was written as separate bills by the Rodents under the Rapist.

I have NO IDEA why you absolve the Rodents for their crimes, but you insist on doing so.

If you can't identify the enemy, you're not fighting the enemy.

Rodents.

AND RINOs.

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## Invayne

> You have to admit that almost all of the text of the PATRIOT Act was written as separate bills by the Rodents under the Rapist.
> 
> I have NO IDEA why you absolve the Rodents for their crimes, but you insist on doing so.
> 
> If you can't identify the enemy, you're not fighting the enemy.
> 
> Rodents.
> 
> AND RINOs.


I'm not absolving Rodents of anything. There's no fucking difference between the two.

And RINOs is all you're ever going to get because the GOP won't allow anything else...

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## Sled Dog

> I'm not absolving Rodents of anything. There's no fucking difference between the two.


There must be.

You make a distinction.

So, make up your mind, there's either a difference, or there's not.  Stop pretending there is, by using undefined term neo-con that, while undefined means "extremists of the Republican stripe", and start using words that have meaning.

If you cannot define a term, and you cannot define "neo-con", you shouldn't be using it.

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## JustPassinThru

> No, I put the blame on the fascist neocon scumbags that consider everyone a threat and a "domestic terrorist", living in fear of boogeymen under every bed.


Of course.

Betcha you blame Israel for those dead kids, too - and not the scumbag turban-heads who use the kids as human shields.

You can NOT have genteel law enforcement when dealing with animals.  History provides all the proof you need; and you canNOT show an example otherwise, where gangbangers or looters or ethnic cleansers suddenly dropped their AK-47s or machetes in fear when the police showed up with a printed-out Miranda warning and a nightstick.

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## DonGlock26

> Small towns with SWAT teams and tanks? The beacon of freedom in the  world is quickly becoming a police state, and no one seems to be paying  much attention.
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...lice-j-delgado
> 
> Why the militarization? Listen to this Israeli soldier and find out. You can fast forward to around the 25 or 30 minute mark, but I'd recommend you listen to the whole thing....


What's the point that you are trying to make? What does a former IDF soldier have to do with US SWAT teams?


Who stopped these criminals?

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LongTermGuy (08-03-2014)

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## East of the Beast

I'm not against the overthrow of an unruly government at all.But before I go guns a blazin' in the nearest police dept. I'd like to give our system of government,we the people, the chance to right itself by........wait for it .........LAWFUL MEANS!

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

Conservatives BY DEFINITION believe in a peaceful and ordered society.

The agents of legitimate order are the police. 

It is as impossible for a conservative to hate the police as an institution as it is for them to hate any of the great traditions that have made up their society, such as responsible liberty and accountability and democratic capitalism.

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DonGlock26 (08-03-2014)

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

People need to understand that liberty cannot exist without order, that anarchy inevitably implies the triumph of amoral, illegitimate and irresponsible force.

Government provides the framework for order, and the police are the agents to enforce that order.

It is a false opposition to contrast order and liberty, the second cannot exist without the first.

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Devil505 (08-03-2014),DonGlock26 (08-03-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> People need to understand that liberty cannot exist without order, that anarchy inevitably implies the triumph of amoral, illegitimate and irresponsible force.
> 
> Government provides the framework for order, and the police are the agents to enforce that order.
> 
> It is a false opposition to contrast order and liberty, the second cannot exist without the first.


So called "Anarchists" and "Voluntaryist" don't want real anarchy. They want to act without hindrance, while still enjoying the protection of the rule of law and the state including welfare benefits when is suits them.

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## Invayne

> What's the point that you are trying to make? What does a former IDF soldier have to do with US SWAT teams?


If you'd listen to him, you'd find out.

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## Ghost of Lunchboxxy

> So called "Anarchists" and "Voluntaryist" don't want real anarchy. They want to act without hindrance, while still enjoying the protection of the rule of law and the state including welfare benefits when is suits them.


There's a strong element of criminality in most anarcho-libertarians. Dig below the surface of any anarcho-libertarian and you will hit a sociopath.

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DonGlock26 (08-03-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> If you'd listen to him, you'd find out.


Give us a time frame start to finish where he makes the point that you refuse to tell us about yourself.

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## DonGlock26

> There's a strong element of criminality in most anarcho-libertarians. Dig below the surface of any alarcho-libertarian and you will hit a sociopath.


Probably- be it drug abuse, child support avoidance, domestic violence, or drunk driving.

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## BleedingHeadKen

> So called "Anarchists" and "Voluntaryist" don't want real anarchy. They want to act without hindrance, while still enjoying the protection of the rule of law and the state including welfare benefits when is suits them.


The hypocrite conservative progressive projects as always, and has absolutely no evidence for his ridiculous assertions.

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Invayne (08-03-2014)

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## DonGlock26

> The hypocrite conservative progressive projects as always, and has absolutely no evidence for his ridiculous assertions.


Ask how many cophaters here have a criminal record. I'll wait.

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## Invayne

> Give us a time frame start to finish where he makes the point that you refuse to tell us about yourself.


Pay attention. As I stated in the OP,  You can fast forward to around the *25 or 30 minute mark,* but I'd recommend you listen to the whole thing....

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## DonGlock26

> Pay attention. As I stated in the OP,  You can fast forward to around the *25 or 30 minute mark,* but I'd recommend you listen to the whole thing....


That's too vague. What is the point, or when does he make it specifically? What does Israel's army have to do with a US police dept using a SWAT team against armed criminals?

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