# Stuff and Things > HISTORY, veterans & science >  does God play dice with the universe?

## nonsqtr

Albert Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe".

Was he right?

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Quark (10-24-2020)

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## S-N-A-F-U

> Albert Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe".
> 
> Was he right?



*He believed it didn't come about by chance...
*

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## S-N-A-F-U



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## nonsqtr

Dice, is the topic...  :Wink:

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## S-N-A-F-U

> Dice, is the topic...


Oops, and i thought it was intent.    :Smiley20:

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## Northern Rivers

> Albert Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe".
> 
> Was he right?


No. It's more like billiards.

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Conservative Libertarian (10-19-2019),nonsqtr (10-21-2019)

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## Conservative Libertarian

> No. It's more like billiards.


Where he already knows the outcome.

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NORAD (10-19-2019)

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## Calypso Jones

It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.

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Conservative Libertarian (10-19-2019),ruthless terrier (10-19-2019)

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## FrontTowardEnemy

> It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.


I occasionally wonder what the odds are for this all to happen by chance. Then I wonder what the odds are that intelligent design was first cause. If I cared enough to calculate it and compare the two, I do more than muse. Ultimately there is only faith and none. Those appear to be the two choices. So I'll spend my calculating energy coercing cinnamon rolls out of Mrs FTE.

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## HawkTheSlayer

First God made the snake.
Then God made dice and snake eyes.

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## Quasar44

He was wrong as QM governs the world of the 
small !! How it links to Newton physics we 
think is string theory

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## Northern Rivers

> Where he already knows the outcome.


Not according to Heisenberg...

...or, Schroedinger!

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## nonsqtr

> It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.


Ha ha - very good. You've made the (unconscious?) connection between "dice" and "random".

But... are you familiar with how random numbers are actually generated? Like for example, on a computer?

The short story is, there's no such thing as a random number - anywhere but ONE place.

A computer, has to simulate randomness. Usually they do this with a seed and some kind of complicated algorithm. And if you look at the numeric results, they're not random. It might take you four billion tries to expose the repetition, but you'll find it.

But that being said, here's the big surprise.

Even TRUE randomness isn't random. The dice are weighted, there's a different number of dots on each side. Which is an example of a probability DISTRIBUTION. 

It turns out that probability distributions obey simple math just like real numbers. Ito was the first to describe the calculus of Brownian motion, and then it was another few decades before anyone could do it on a computer - because to get the model to work, you need true randomness, and the early technicians were tearing their hair out trying to figure out why the simulations weren't coming out right.

Someone mentioned quantum mechanics. Please refer to my thread on distributions. Have you taken a close look at the orbitals? Why are they shaped that way?



Those pictures don't look very Rendon to me. Did they look random to you?

I don't see any randomness in these pictures, all I see is a lot of geometric structure. The odds are determined directly by the structure. Kind of like a roulette wheel.

According to String Theory, what we see as random in our three plus one space time, may not be random at all, it may simply be a projection of a 12 dimensional distribution.

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## Swedgin

I do not think so.

Although there is much in our existence, and, observations of existence, that suggest a lot of randomness.

Hard for us to see the bigger picture, though.

IF the universe is simply the result of complete randomness, then, at any time, a small, random event could potentially unravel it all......

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## Morning Star

> It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.


Are you saying "God" didn't create the universe with the ability to generate life? 

BTW - What science do you believe says that specializations in living things came from a "boom" in stagnant water? If fact no such science exists.

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## Morning Star

> IF the universe is simply the result of complete randomness, then, at any time, a small, random event could potentially unravel it all......


It could.

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## kazenatsu

> Albert Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe".
> Was he right?


We find with quantum mechanics that those seemingly "random" events are not random. There are forbidden outcomes, depending on the situation, and more bizarrely in quantum mechanics, depending on the future.

What seems random now is actually correlated with what will happen or could happen (but does not) in the distant future. From the perspective of quantum mechanics, the entire universe can be seen to be acting like one giant supercomputer.

That's what they are referring to when they refer to "spooky action at a distance". How do the particles "know"? Well, they don't necessarily "know" but there is a correlation that exists between past and future, and that correlation goes both ways, it turns out not to only be like the normal cause-effect relationship we would expect.

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Jen (10-24-2020)

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## Authentic

Does God roll the hard way and take the odds?

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## Authentic

> No. It's more like billiards.


Pluto, off an asteroid - corner black hole.

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## Jen

Not sure who God would play dice with.  Satan would cheat.

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Authentic (10-24-2020),S-N-A-F-U (10-24-2020),tlmjl (10-24-2020)

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## S-N-A-F-U

> Not sure who God would play dice with.  Satan would cheat.


That came from one of Einstein's observations; "God doesn't play dice with the universe."  As an agnostic he knew there was a higher power in the universe than ourselves.

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Jen (10-24-2020),Quark (10-24-2020)

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## tlmjl

He set things in motion....when you mention universe, I take that to mean anything and everything.  Consequently, there are times when divine intervention does take place.

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S-N-A-F-U (10-24-2020)

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## Ragot the Gerbil

How does a spiritual being,
(Thats if GOD is indeed separate)
With no need for a physical body,
Have any need to use dice,
Or use dice in the first place?

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tlmjl (10-27-2020)

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## Authentic

I diced an onion last night.

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## Bastion

> It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.


Not really. In order to exist at all any life form would have to be specialized to its environmental niche, or perish...

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## Authentic

> Not really. In order to exist at all any life form would have to be specialized to its environmental niche, or *perish*...


A Catholic parish is an environmental niche.

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## Quark

> It takes great faith to believe that all this specialization in living things came about by some ancient boom in some stagnant water.


 You're back! You're back! Welcome back. Whoops this is an old post. Never mind.

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tlmjl (10-27-2020)

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## Robert Urbanek

God does play dice with the universe but the dice are loaded. Earth is a crooked casino in a bad neighborhood, the Milky Way. God leaves little to chance. You may call that Intelligent Design. I call it Cheating.

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## Quark

I did some research on Einstein and his "God" last night.

Einstein was a Jew and remained a Jew even though he had disagreements with the Jewish faith.

Einstein believed in the pantheistic "God" of Baruch Spinoza, a Dutch philosopher of the 17th century.

Einstein was an Agnostic but I find no evidence that Einstein was truly an Atheist.

So depending where one is coming from Einstein was either an Agnostic, Atheist, or a Jew.

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Ragot the Gerbil (10-28-2020)

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## Authentic

> I diced an onion last night.


And a tomato today.

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## Authentic

> Not sure who God would play dice with.  Satan would cheat.


And make his opponent walk the Planck.

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MisterVeritis (03-01-2021),Oceander (03-01-2021)

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