# Politics and News > World Affairs >  European leaders try to prevent war

## lizardking

Europe needs Russian gas. Despite the economic sanctions the European Union agrees and wants to cooperate with Russia. But these days the tension between parties is extremely high, so European leaders planned to negotiate with both parties and present them the new edition of the Minsk protocol. This initiative have been taken due to concerns of the news about the American weapon supplies to Ukraine and violence escalating in the region of Donbas. Ukrainian authorities made no new statements just charged Russia as always. French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are heading to Moscow where they'll negotiate with Vladimir Putin. Europe is going to get ahead of the United States and offer the diplomatic solution for the warring parties to resolve the present conflict before Obama administration will offer a military solution and wage another war.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-defuse-crisis
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ne-proposal-us

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michaelr (02-06-2015)

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## DeadEye

The Russian backed separatist are the ones waring. Lift the sanctions and the gas will flow but everything east of the river will be under Russian control.

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## lizardking

> The Russian backed separatist are the ones waring. Lift the sanctions and the gas will flow but everything east of the river will be under Russian control.


What river? Your trolling isn't always clear, be careful.

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## Canadianeye

> The Russian backed separatist are the ones waring. Lift the sanctions and the gas will flow but everything east of the river will be under Russian control.


Are you saying the gas isn't flowing?

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## Rudy2D

> Are you saying the gas isn't flowing?




The Russkies cut it off last month.

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## Canadianeye

> The Russkies cut it off last month.


Did they? I thought they said they were going to reroute through Turkey instead. The wording of all the news hypes it that Russia has cut off Europe, but they haven't cut off Europe.

The EU was setting about having talks about screwing Russia. Russia responded by saying they were not going to be going through the Ukraine anymore, and are going to go through Turkey, because Turkey is reliable and pays its bills, NOT like Ukraine...and, as the spokesman for Russia said...it is good to use a reliable source, since that will be better for the rest of our customers in the EU.

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DeadEye (02-06-2015)

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## Dos Equis

> Europe needs Russian gas. Despite the economic sanctions the European Union agrees and wants to cooperate with Russia. But these days the tension between parties is extremely high, so European leaders planned to negotiate with both parties and present them the new edition of the Minsk protocol. This initiative have been taken due to concerns of the news about the American weapon supplies to Ukraine and violence escalating in the region of Donbas. Ukrainian authorities made no new statements just charged Russia as always. French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are heading to Moscow where they'll negotiate with Vladimir Putin. Europe is going to get ahead of the United States and offer the diplomatic solution for the warring parties to resolve the present conflict before Obama administration will offer a military solution and wage another war.
> 
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-defuse-crisis
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ne-proposal-us


Europe is completely dependent upon the US for their military protection.  All their wealth goes to the funding their respective nanny states.  US military protection is simply seen as just another entitlement in a myriad of other entitlements.  

Having said that, what else can Europe do other than negotiate via diplomacy or tell Obama to take out Putin like they did tell him to take out Gaddaifi?

We all know that the later won't happen, so Putin may as well just laugh in their face and use Europe to coerce the US to do Putin's bidding.

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DeadEye (02-06-2015)

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## Rudy2D

> Did they? I thought they said they were going to reroute through Turkey instead. The wording of all the news hypes it that Russia has cut off Europe, but they haven't cut off Europe.


"Gazprom, the world’s biggest natural gas supplier, plans to send 63 billion cubic meters through *a proposed link* under the Black Sea to Turkey, fully replacing shipments via Ukraine, Chief Executive Officer Alexey Miller said during the discussions. About 40 percent of Russia’s gas exports to Europe and Turkey travel through Ukraine’s Soviet-era network."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-eu-cries-foul

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## Canadianeye

> "Gazprom, the world’s biggest natural gas supplier, plans to send 63 billion cubic meters through *a proposed link* under the Black Sea to Turkey, fully replacing shipments via Ukraine, Chief Executive Officer Alexey Miller said during the discussions. About 40 percent of Russia’s gas exports to Europe and Turkey travel through Ukraine’s Soviet-era network."
> 
> From Reuters. Feb 6 2015
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0VC29K20150206
> 
> "While EU deliveries were not disrupted after Russia cut off Ukraine's supply, continuing tensions with Moscow, including its plans to divert piped supplies away from Ukraine, have spurred talks on better EU cooperation and the need for alternative supplies."
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-eu-cries-foul

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## Hansel

> "Gazprom, the worlds biggest natural gas supplier, plans to send 63 billion cubic meters through *a proposed link* under the Black Sea to Turkey, fully replacing shipments via Ukraine, Chief Executive Officer Alexey Miller said during the discussions. About 40 percent of Russias gas exports to Europe and Turkey travel through Ukraines Soviet-era network."
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-eu-cries-foul


I keep seeing where the Russian gas travels thru a region but my question is this.  Where is it going, who is the consumer?

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## DeadEye

> What river? Your trolling isn't always clear, be careful.


Be careful of what? You don't even know the difference between congress and parliament. You be careful.

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## michaelr

> Europe needs Russian gas. Despite the economic sanctions the European Union agrees and wants to cooperate with Russia. But these days the tension between parties is extremely high, so European leaders planned to negotiate with both parties and present them the new edition of the Minsk protocol. This initiative have been taken due to concerns of the news about the American weapon supplies to Ukraine and violence escalating in the region of Donbas. Ukrainian authorities made no new statements just charged Russia as always. French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are heading to Moscow where they'll negotiate with Vladimir Putin. Europe is going to get ahead of the United States and offer the diplomatic solution for the warring parties to resolve the present conflict before Obama administration will offer a military solution and wage another war.
> 
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-defuse-crisis
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ne-proposal-us


As Obama pushes for WWII, you know, reset those debts and currency issues, the adults rethink it all. Good for the adults.

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## Rudy2D

> I keep seeing where the Russian gas travels thru a region but my question is this.  Where is it going, who is the consumer?


The consumer was Western Europe--but not at present--until the "proposed link" is established.  Russia's way of flipping-off NATO.

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DeadEye (02-07-2015)

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## pollycy

> What river? Your trolling isn't always clear, be careful.


He means the Dnieper River, of course.  Ever look at a map of Ukraine?  


Bottom line: whether Putin decides to agree to a temporary cease-fire or not, you may be sure that Russia will end up getting most, if not all of Ukraine back.  This time the central bankers went too far!  The European Central Bank magnates in Frankfurt thought they could just stage a coup in Ukraine, pull Ukraine into their EU web, take over the entire Black Sea, and push Russia's Black Sea Fleet out of Sevastopol.  They thought _wrong_....

And if they keep on fucking around with Vladimir Putin, they're going to end up with Russian troops storming into ECB headquarters one fine day, and that will be the end of that!  Think it's impossible?  WHO would stop them?

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DeadEye (02-08-2015)

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## lizardking

So they finally ceased fire according to the agreement. But the new economic sanctions come next, so the economic battles and crisis will last.

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## DeadEye

> So they finally ceased fire according to the agreement. But the new economic sanctions come next, so the economic battles and crisis will last.


They ceased fire to consolidate forces, regroup and redeploy, with fresh troops and armaments. Does anyone expect Putin to actually co-operate and give them gas at the same time they are imposing sanctions on Russia. If anyone believes that then they do not know who Putin is. Want to end the conflict? Give Russia everything east of the river and lift the sanctions.

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## Taxcutter

> I keep seeing where the Russian gas travels thru a region but my question is this.  Where is it going, who is the consumer?



Taxcutter says:
Consumers are Germany, Poland, Austria, Italy, Holland, Switzerland, and Belgium.

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## lostbeyond

> He means the Dnieper River, of course. Ever look at a map of Ukraine? 
> 
> 
> Bottom line: whether Putin decides to agree to a temporary cease-fire or not, you may be sure that Russia will end up getting most, if not all of Ukraine back. This time the central bankers went too far! The European Central Bank magnates in Frankfurt thought they could just stage a coup in Ukraine, pull Ukraine into their EU web, take over the entire Black Sea, and push Russia's Black Sea Fleet out of Sevastopol. They thought _wrong_....
> 
> And if they keep on fucking around with Vladimir Putin, they're going to end up with Russian troops storming into ECB headquarters one fine day, and that will be the end of that! Think it's impossible? WHO would stop them?


I hope that we Americans will not be so stupid as to try to stop that.  It is only a wet dream though that Europe gets what it deserves.

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## lostbeyond

> So they finally ceased fire according to the agreement. But the new economic sanctions come next, so the economic battles and crisis will last.


And the 1st thing those sanctions will do is to invalidate the ceasefire.  This is a well correographed dance.  Like ww1-2 was, also well coreographed, Europeans are experts in this.

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## Taxcutter

> I hope that we Americans will not be so stupid as to try to stop that.  It is only a wet dream though that Europe gets what it deserves.



Taxcutter says:
Don't worry.   America CAN'T stop it.   Hussein Obama fulfilled his promise to Putin.
"Europe" can't do jack.

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pollycy (02-28-2015)

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## lostbeyond

> Taxcutter says:
> Don't worry.   America CAN'T stop it.   Hussein Obama fulfilled his promise to Putin.
> "Europe" can't do jack.


They can do one thing, kill each other, and they love every minute of it.  Popcorn?

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## DeadEye

> They can do one thing, kill each other, and they love every minute of it.  Popcorn?


We have our own killing fields here in inner city America. Black folk are killing themselves off faster than you can say planned parenthood or that thug has a gun. Yabbut, it's somehow racist when one of our officers gun them down. 

Some of these cities have murder rates above 300 people a year. That we know of. It's sorta like Miami in the late 70's or early 80's. Yet, the media keeps telling us that ISIS is the threat we need to worry about. It's like some people running things don't want you to know who has the highest crime rate per capita.

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## lostbeyond

> We have our own killing fields here in inner city America. Black folk are killing themselves off faster than you can say planned parenthood or that thug has a gun. Yabbut, it's somehow racist when one of our officers gun them down. 
> 
> Some of these cities have murder rates above 300 people a year. That we know of. It's sorta like Miami in the late 70's or early 80's. Yet, the media keeps telling us that ISIS is the threat we need to worry about. It's like some people running things don't want you to know who has the highest crime rate per capita.


You have a point about this US urban social engineering.  But I guess the more we follow the money about it, the sooner we get engineered into it too.

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## lizardking



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## Dan40

Appeasing Putin will insure he pushes his imperialism even harder.

History has shown that to be 100% certain.

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JustPassinThru (02-27-2015)

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## Hansel

> Europe needs Russian gas. Despite the economic sanctions the European Union agrees and wants to cooperate with Russia. But these days the tension between parties is extremely high, so European leaders planned to negotiate with both parties and present them the new edition of the Minsk protocol. This initiative have been taken due to concerns of the news about the American weapon supplies to Ukraine and violence escalating in the region of Donbas. Ukrainian authorities made no new statements just charged Russia as always. French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel are heading to Moscow where they'll negotiate with Vladimir Putin. Europe is going to get ahead of the United States and offer the diplomatic solution for the warring parties to resolve the present conflict before Obama administration will offer a military solution and wage another war.
> 
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-defuse-crisis
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ne-proposal-us


I think that Russia also needs the income from selling NG to the Euros.

The struggle in the Ukraine is somewhat like the sectarian violence in Arabic countries, and I doubt that military power or war will resolve this issue.
From what I can tell it has been going on for years and years in the Ukraine.

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## lizardking

> From what I can tell it has been going on for years and years in the Ukraine.


What has been going for years in Ukraine? Social split? Civil war?



> Appeasing Putin will insure he pushes his imperialism even harder.
> 
> History has shown that to be 100% certain.


Correct if you mean military appeasing.

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## Dan40

> Correct if you mean military appeasing.


Correct as stated.

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## pollycy

> Appeasing Putin will insure he pushes his imperialism even harder.
> 
> History has shown that to be 100% certain.


Vladimir Putin enjoys *86%* popularity in Russia: http://www.levada.ru/eng/
http://time.com/3724564/putin-approval-rating/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/26/europe...in-popularity/


Some will say that the poll was contrived, but the truth is that it was conducted by the respected, very independent Levada Center.

When you mash all the bullshit out of it, the truth remains -- in Europe, Vladimir Putin can do any damned thing he wants, with relative impunity!
 "*With Western 'leaders' like the ones you've got, do you REALLY want to fuck with me...?*"

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Mainecoons (02-28-2015)

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## Dan40

> Vladimir Putin enjoys *86%* popularity in Russia: http://www.levada.ru/eng/
> http://time.com/3724564/putin-approval-rating/
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/26/europe...in-popularity/
> 
> 
> Some will say that the poll was contrived, but the truth is that it was conducted by the respected, very independent Levada Center.
> 
> When you mash all the bullshit out of it, the truth remains -- in Europe, Vladimir Putin can do any damned thing he wants, with relative impunity!
>  "*With Western 'leaders' like the ones you've got, do you REALLY want to fuck with me...?*"


He not only CAN do whatever he wants, he WILL do whatever he wants unless he KNOWS there would be serious consequences.  And there is no one in the EU or DC that he would not laugh at.

It is the Russian thug vs the wet diapers of odumbo.

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## Sled Dog

> Europe is completely dependent upon the US for their military protection.  All their wealth goes to the funding their respective nanny states.  US military protection is simply seen as just another entitlement in a myriad of other entitlements.  
> 
> Having said that, what else can Europe do other than negotiate via diplomacy or tell Obama to take out Putin like they did tell him to take out Gaddaifi?
> 
> We all know that the later won't happen, so Putin may as well just laugh in their face and use Europe to coerce the US to do Putin's bidding.


What Europe will do is what Europe has always done.

France and Germany will happily GIVE Russia Ukraine in exchange for  a temporary energy fix, and will also agree to forego all domestic energy development that might lead them to a self-sufficiency what would wean them from Russia.

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## pollycy

> What Europe will do is what Europe has always done.
> 
> France and Germany will happily GIVE Russia Ukraine in exchange for  a temporary energy fix, and will also agree to forego all domestic energy development that might lead them to a self-sufficiency what would wean them from Russia.


French and German citizen taxpayers might "happily give" Ukraine to Russia, but remember, the European Central Bank, along with the other big central banks around the world and the IMF call ALL the shots for the EU!  Never forget that.  The big central bankers tell "leaders" like Merkel, Cameron, Hollande, and Obama what to do, down to the last detail... and what "the people" want doesn't mean jack-shit!

The central bankers will continue to try to destroy Russia's economy with unrelenting continued manipulation currency/commodity markets, but at ECB headquarters in Frankfort, they're bound to know by now that their stooge government in Kiev has lost the civil war in Eastern Ukraine.  Ukraine has lost, and now it teeters on the brink of insolvency and chaos.  The losers in Kiev will be expecting the IMF to support them, just as though they'd won the civil war -- HA!  If Poroshenko and his regime have any sense at all they'll steal whatever they haven't stolen already and get their asses over to Switzerland in the next few months.

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