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Thread: The Science of Evolution, uncensored

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post
    Yes.

    Answers in Reality.
    Freedom Takes "I Won't". - Eric Frank Russell

    Trump has been President for 412 days and Ruth Bader Ginzberg hasn't had the decency to die. What's up with that?

    Because we have fascists that can't turn this country into Venezuela until the victims are disarmed.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
    Like many atheists, you want to change us. And rub it in. Mind your own damn business.

    Is there any other issue you care about?
    @Morning Star

    All you have to do is keep your nonsense out of our schools, because we don't want to see you harming children, that will be that.
    Freedom Takes "I Won't". - Eric Frank Russell

    Trump has been President for 412 days and Ruth Bader Ginzberg hasn't had the decency to die. What's up with that?

    Because we have fascists that can't turn this country into Venezuela until the victims are disarmed.



    And some said my other husky avatar was scary.

  3. #113
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    I meant to follow up with whoever was asking about this business of sticking pins into frog embryos.

    You're basically looking at three things. One is called cell migration, it typically happens in the early phase of embryonic development. Blast cells give rise to other cells which then migrate to their eventual locations.

    Second thing is cell motility so, a cell can be motile without actually migrating. Nerve cells are this way, when their axons extend to find their targets.

    Third thing is polarization, so as a cell moves, it comes to know which end is the head and which end is the tail. Usually this happens as a result of the interaction with the chemical gradient. Some cells can climb up a gradient, that's called chemotaxis, and in human development chemotaxis is assisted by specific receptors, so instead of an enormous chemical gradient across the whole body, there can be a small source of tiny amounts of identifiable proteins. This happens in the hypothalamus in human beings, as the initial sets of connections are forming.

    This is a good reference, you learn a lot by reading it:

    Cell migration: from tissue culture to embryos | Development

    What actually happens when you stick a pin in a frog embryo, at exactly the right time, is you're disrupting a set of chemical gradients. Not only that, but you're also disrupting mechanical tension that is essential for morphogenesis. (Morphogenesis means the development of shape, which includes Limbs and such). The result is that cells migrate to the wrong place, and they also misidentify their targets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
    Like many atheists, you want to change us. And rub it in. Mind your own damn business.

    Is there any other issue you care about?
    @Morning Star
    Not on this specific point, but just in general, I'd like to ask you a question.

    Like, why do Christians feel so threatened by the theory of evolution?

    There is no evolutionist anywhere, that I know of, who's trying to threaten Christianity.

    Nobody is disputing the idea that Noah loaded pairs of animals into the ark. My take is, he just loaded whatever animals were available to him. The evolutionary niches du jour, so to speak. There is nothing in that story that contradicts Evolution, and nothing in evolution that contradicts the story.

    The Bible says God created living things in order, and that's what evolution says too. The Bible isn't too specific about "how" exactly God created all these wonderful creatures, except there's a few nebulous statements about the Breath of Life - and the theory of evolution seeks to fill in the how part, so in a sense it's entirely complementary to what's in the Bible.

    I may be a loose Christian, but I really see no contradiction between God and the scientists. The scientists are just trying to figure out the rules, that's all. Sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't. But the direction in this one looks pretty clear. That's my take, anyway.

    LIMO you'd have to be very darn picky and particular to find the conflict between the Bible and evolution. It would be easy, very easy indeed, to find many conflicts between the Bible and individual evolutionists, but the theory of evolution itself has very little to do with Dawkins opinion.

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  6. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    Not on this specific point, but just in general, I'd like to ask you a question.

    Like, why do Christians feel so threatened by the theory of evolution?.
    This is a flawed assumption.
    In actual fact, most religious believers, in western civilization at least, DO believe in the theory of universal common descent. There is NO CONFLICT with most people, regarding their belief in a deity and belief in evolution.

    So your question is a false caricature, with nothing to back it.

    The deeper question is why are the True Believers in the TOE so invested in this theory? Why will they not examine the science behind it, critically? Why must this alleged scientific theory be defended (and promoted) with jihadist zeal? Why are those who criticize this 'theory,' viewed as enemies and evil blasphemers?

    I am sure there are more theists than atheists, who believe in the theory of universal common descent. So this is NOT an 'atheists vs theists!' issue. It is a scientific issue, and should be open to critical examination.
    ..gone and forgotten..

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    But look, "universal common descent" is a tautology. At the end of the day all this goes back to the energy in the universe, and the idea that symmetry is being broken in structured ways. That's a mystery, the rest of the stuff, not so much.

    Molecules are like building blocks, and when you get enough different kinds, you have an erector set. You can build just about anything with an erector set. When I was 30, I remember reading about some kid that built an erector machine that could actually build itself, like put new parts onto itself. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to grasp. You have to Free Your Mind from the impossibility of mutation. If you do the actual math, you'll find that it's very possible indeed. And it's only a tiny step from there to controlled mutation, and it's only a tiny step from there to speciation.

    Frankly, the lack of a missing link means nothing whatsoever. It is of no consequence whatsoever to the theory. "Now", anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    Not on this specific point, but just in general, I'd like to ask you a question.

    Like, why do Christians feel so threatened by the theory of evolution?

    There is no evolutionist anywhere, that I know of, who's trying to threaten Christianity.

    The Bible is the ABSOLUTE and ONLY word of their God.

    Because there are assertions about their God that cannot be proven; ESSENTIAL and CORE without which the house of cards framing that religion falls apart.

    So...EVERYTHING THING in that book written by -10th Century ignorant people and compiled by 3rd Century ignorant people with an agenda MUST be true.

    Noah's boat ride. It never happened.

    But it had to happed because the Magic Book says it did.

    The Magic Book says God created all those species, in the form they're in. Therefore Evolution never happened...and don't you dare say all those extinct species are examples of God making a mistake, either.

    God never makes mistakes.

    Not even when He supposedly wipes out the entire human race, except for the Noahs, because he was unhappy with everyone else. That WAS NOT a mistake. He made those people into sinners on purpose, just so he could murder them and prove that He's really a heartless bastard who likes rainbows.

    Because, you see, if the word about the Flood That Is Said to Have Happened (but didn't) didn't actually happen, how true is the fanciful tale about Mary's Magic Disappearing REappearing Hymen? And if Mary wasn't a virgin (and why would she be, in reality?), so much for the divinity of Jesus.

    So...

    ...while they refuse to admit the truth, they have to LIE THEIR ASSES OFF about evolution because if evolution is true (it is), then their mythology about eternal life is a crock of bullshit, and they're GONNA DIE.

    And they can't accept the fact of their own demise.

    Boo hoo hooey and all that.

    They don't wanna DIE, so they LIE.

    Even though one of their Magic Commandment specifically forbids them from bearing false witness.
    Freedom Takes "I Won't". - Eric Frank Russell

    Trump has been President for 412 days and Ruth Bader Ginzberg hasn't had the decency to die. What's up with that?

    Because we have fascists that can't turn this country into Venezuela until the victims are disarmed.



    And some said my other husky avatar was scary.

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  10. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginger View Post
    You lied to me. You are a troll.

    I will stand by and let the members here cut you to pieces. Go for it, everyone, enjoy yourselves.
    Damn it. I'm all late!
    Yep, I'd wrap that in bacon!
    Report illegal aliens, call ICE @ 1-866-DHS-2ICE (347-2423)

    To find out who rules over you, just find out who you can't criticize - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris P Bacon View Post
    Damn it. I'm all late!
    Well, apparently not completely late lol

    I'd like to draw your attention to a couple of things real quick, first of all there are simple life forms that can chop up and rearrange their DNA between reproductive Cycles.

    A Genetic Jigsaw: Single-Celled Organism Breaks Up Its Genome And Rearranges DNA Pieces | IFLScience

    Secondly, we have succeeded in recreating cellular life in a test tube. That's about eight years old at this point. Read this historical timeline, you'll learn a lot.

    Unicellular Organisms

    Finally, I keep mentioning that it is useful to study simple life forms. One way in which there are useful, is when you're trying to understand where exactly mutations fit in, relative to the spectrum of things that could be done to a strand of DNA. For example, simple single-celled life-forms have transduction, conjugation, and other non mutational ways of controlling changes in the genome.

    Three Mechanisms of Genetic Recombination in Prokaryotes | Sciencing

    We're just about at the point right now where we can create a single cell in the laboratory, and keep it alive. As long as we can keep it alive, we can play with it, and the controlled environment like that is invaluable to study all the things you can splice into the genome while it's happening. Functional genomics is absolutely the hottest branch of science today.

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