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Thread: Median Family Net Worth Below 1989 Level: Debt-To-Money Worst Since '62

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sooda View Post
    Venezuela has a long string of military dictators and a huge disparity in income. The leader's clique was quite wealthy while everyone else was very poor. This mess didn't start with Chavez.
    Sooda I'm sure that's true but your looking at the results as the cause. They aren't the same. The more power that the government has, the more it can abuse it's people. And it's also a sad fact that the more power those in charge have the less they tend to care about "those people". Absolute power corrupts absolutely isn't that far off the mark. And what recourse do those people have? They can march & show their displeasure right up until the military starts shooting them (one of the drawbacks of not being armed).

    A government's job should be to create an economy which promotes jobs. That is how you help the poor. Just feeding them keeps them alive but doesn't do anything long term except drain the economy. The goal should always be to have the populous working so that both the government & the people benefit. The government gets to tax & raise money & the people have enough left to raise their standard of living. The best system to do that with is capitalism, not socialism & certainly not military rule.

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    I recall hearing a congresswoman complaining that some people in her district were so poor they couldn't afford cable television. I felt like falling on the floor and crying.

    Consumerism in this country is rampant & insane. My first cable/dish was AFTER I retired because that's when I could AFFORD IT. The killer word that applies to consumerism is justification. Everyone can justify buying anything they want because they DESERVE IT. My feelings are that you deserve whatever your income supports. If you have to go into debt to buy something then you don't deserve it. I will say that a house & a car are exceptions BUT the house has to be reasonably priced & the car certainly doesn't have to be new.

    I'll stop her & say that every post from Patrickt is DEAD ON CORRECT. I agree with everything he says.

    I'll further say that it's a slam dunk to do well in the U.S. if you follow some simple rules. Work, spend less than you make, invest & not be STUPID. Your income doesn't matter as much as following those simple rules. In the last 20 years I've known exactly 1 young couple that lives like that. One out of everyone that I've known. This country doesn't have a income problem, we have a society problem with unreal expectations.

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    I "get" that I can come across as an ass on the subject of finances. Years of living payday to payday wore me down & I hated them. I divorced the spender ex & made up my mind that I would never live like that again. I lowered my lifestyle & it took me less than a year of snowballing my debt to pay things off. In almost 30 years I have paid interest on credit cards maybe 10 times (at most) & that's because life can slap you in the face now & again. And yes sometimes we have stuff come up & we do break even on a payday, again that's life. This month we probably have about $3,000 of unexpected bills. But other than my CC bill (I charge everything for the cash back) I own nothing, no house payment or car payment, etc.. It's a great life & I just don't see the logic of scraping by if you can change it.

    My rule of thumb is IF you pay interest on a CC 4 or more times a year you need to make some changes because your in trouble. I'll add that 2 or more times is a strong warning that you need to change something.
    Last edited by Old Tex; 02-21-2018 at 08:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Tex View Post
    I recall hearing a congresswoman complaining that some people in her district were so poor they couldn't afford cable television. I felt like falling on the floor and crying.

    Consumerism in this country is rampant & insane. My first cable/dish was AFTER I retired because that's when I could AFFORD IT. The killer word that applies to consumerism is justification. Everyone can justify buying anything they want because they DESERVE IT. My feelings are that you deserve whatever your income supports. If you have to go into debt to buy something then you don't deserve it. I will say that a house & a car are exceptions BUT the house has to be reasonably priced & the car certainly doesn't have to be new.

    I'll stop her & say that every post from Patrickt is DEAD ON CORRECT. I agree with everything he says.

    I'll further say that it's a slam dunk to do well in the U.S. if you follow some simple rules. Work, spend less than you make, invest & not be STUPID. Your income doesn't matter as much as following those simple rules. In the last 20 years I've known exactly 1 young couple that lives like that. One out of everyone that I've known. This country doesn't have a income problem, we have a society problem with unreal expectations.
    Do you think TRump relates to your experience?

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    This is because they are filtering in all the illegals.
    All Democrats are not Socialists, but all Socialists are Democrats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sooda View Post
    Nope.. VZ should have been prosperous as they have been pumping oil for 85 years, but all their leadership was former military.. dictators with US approval... and all the wealth of the country was concentrated on the dictator's inner circle.. Very much like Iran during the Shah years. VZ never invested in the people.. mimicking the folly of the Spanish Empire.

    I notice you tosse3d in Oprah Winfrey and medical school.. Why don't you read some history of VZ instead?
    Why? Your version of history is so entertaining. Lying works well for those who constantly fail. It took Hugo Chavez, Barack Obama, and Maduro to stop the pumping of oil and starve the population---other than the leaders who always eat well. Income disparity is not nearly as bad as food disparity. Cuba, USSR, Venzuela, North Korea, Cambodia. This list of communist success stories is endless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Why? Your version of history is so entertaining. Lying works well for those who constantly fail. It took Hugo Chavez, Barack Obama, and Maduro to stop the pumping of oil and starve the population---other than the leaders who always eat well. Income disparity is not nearly as bad as food disparity. Cuba, USSR, Venzuela, North Korea, Cambodia. This list of communist success stories is endless.
    LOLOL.. Obama didn't stop the pumping of oil.. The ppb dropped to $40 a barrel..

    VZ has had decades of turmoil.

    Venezuela - CIA

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_ve.html
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    Venezuela was one of three countries that emerged from the collapse of Gran Colombia in 1830 (the others being Ecuador and New Granada, which became Colombia). For most of the first half of the 20th century, Venezuela was ruled by generally benevolent military strongmen who promoted the oil industry and allowed ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sooda View Post
    Do you think TRump relates to your experience?
    I very much doubt it. Trump has a lot higher expectations than I do & a whole lot more drive. My drive about money is not based on me wanting it but rather not wanting to be stupid with it. Being ultra wealthy just doesn't matter to me. I've lived through hard times where $5 was important & nothing is worse than looking back at something stupid I did with that $5. As I've said I've done real well with what I got over the years & I'm enjoying it now.

    As for Trump. Most of the stuff people hears about him isn't the story. Like he got his money from his father. That isn't true. He did get a million dollars from his father & turned it into Billions. He is also generous with his money & helping people out but like many wealthy people he plays that down because then everyone would be knocking on his door. And of course him being prejudice against blacks is false. His companies have been sued for reason just like every other big company. The suit is based on percentage. If blacks make up 10% of the area where the business is & his company employs 7% blacks then there's a lawsuit. It doesn't matter how many blacks applies or if those applied were qualified, it's all percentage. But it's easy to sell to the public.

    I think that they way that both Trump & I relate is that we both understand that what you do with money has to make sense. I almost make the average income now days & for me having $50,000 of credit card debt would be insane. Trump understands that. Right now I think he is trying to improve our economy. I HOPE that sometime in the near future Congress will address their spending problems.

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    been saying this for a while: many (especially those who lost almost everything) never recovered from 2007 even though the muslim president said the opposite. the price of many products have doubled or tripled in 10 years. it ain't easy.
    “The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.” - Winston Churchill

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    Just a funny story: Last month we spent pretty heavy. Right after the first of this month I was sick & just not tracking well. Usually we talk about money & everything each morning but me being sick, in the hospital, & then weak as a kitten I guess we had no deep conversations (or I didn't remember them). (Hint for everyone, if your oxygen level is low things go over your head). Anyway once again we had some stuff come up unexpected (Murphy's law) like buying some crystal, vet bills & 3 or 4 other things. (Had to have a plumber out today for our water heater that stopped heating for instance). Oh & late last week we had to deposit some money locally from our other account. All of that got me wondering (dreading) to ask about money. I was afraid that we were going to have to pay some interest this month. Turns out we are doing better than just fine. My wife is probably a better money manager than I am, which comes in handy when your mentally off for a while.

    I guess the moral of this story is that married couples should work as a team on finances but the best one with money should be in charge. While my wife will freely admit that I'm in charge, but she likes to do the day to day grunt work.....I rarely get involved unless whatever it is amounts to over $100.

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