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Thread: What will we do when we are dead?

  1. #191
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    When we die we review our lives with our spirit guides and plan our next incarnation.

    "I've never witnessed such hatred for a man who is willing to work for free to make his beloved country a better place. It is pathological." James Woods


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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post
    IT DID NOT develop after the fact. YOU are so quick to believe anyone who is intent on keeping you dead in eternity. You know what...you can't accept it and that is fine. I don't care. but you ARE being fed a line of bull and you can't see the forrest for the trees. I don't care if you don't or can't believe it...but you MUST stop lying about the situation. SCHOLARS know perfectly well who wrote what. They know When. These men were eye witnesses to what happened. They all watched this happen and they wrote their reports which became books of the bible. DON"T believe it...but stop lying about it.
    "Strictly speaking, each Gospel is anonymous.[56] The Gospel of John is somewhat of an exception, although the author simply refers to himself as "the disciple Jesus loved" and claims to be a member of Jesus' inner circle.[57] During the following centuries, each canonical gospel was attributed to an apostle or to the close associate of an apostle.[58] Most scholars have rejected the traditional attributions. (Wikipedia.org)

    Even so, I do not accuse YOU of lying, just that you are uninformed. Before you scoff at the fact that it's Wikipedia, they are QUOTING SCHOLARS here. Now you will no doubt contend that those scholars who disagree with you are non-believers and therefore not real scholars? That would amount to saying that only those who agree with YOU can be correct about anything which I don't think I even need to point out the fallaciousness of? You said "scholars" (which implies "ALL" scholars) believe that the attributed authors of the gospels actually authored them. That is not true. Not all scholars do, and apparently MOST DON'T. You're spouting non-truths and accusing ME of lying. Why?
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  4. #193
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    Actually, when your dead, you're Dead!


    Rom. 6:23: "The wages sin pays is death."

    After one's death, are they still subject to further punishment for their sins?

    Rom. 6:7: "He who has died has been ACQUITTED from his sin."


    Eccl. 9:5 "The dead...are conscious of nothing at all."


    And of course, Jer. 7:31, just to name a few--
    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 04-19-2017 at 05:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-N-A-F-U View Post
    Actually, when your dead, you're Dead!


    Rom. 6:23: "The wages sin pays is death."

    After one's death, are they still subject to further punishment for their sins?

    Rom. 6:7: "He who has died has been ACQUITTED from his sin."


    Eccl. 9:5 "The dead...are conscious of nothing at all."


    And of course, Jer. 7:31, just to name a few--
    Romans.6:7 is talking about being set free from obeying sin when you "die to self" to follow Christ. Not about actual physical death.

    But it is true the Hebrew scriptures view of an afterlife is not very clear. The question is, is Christianity actually the "fulfillment" or "completion" of Judaism, as Christians are taught, or is it actually a whole NEW RELIGION, which borrows from, and bases it's concept, upon only a few strands of "theological DNA" from the Old Testament?
    Last edited by SharetheHedge; 04-20-2017 at 10:23 PM.
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    Christianity is a whole new religion. Anybody who knows ancient Roman history knows that Rome was against "NEW" religions Rome thought "NEW" posed a serious threat to Rome's power. Hence, when the "NEW" religion of Christianity came on the scene there was an attempt to link Christianity to the "OLD" religion of Judaism to protect the "NEW" religion from Roman attack. Of course, no Christian well ever believe that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Of course, no Christian well ever believe that.
    Why do you say that?

    Paul talked about that problem in one of his epistles - he criticized those who were outwardly Jewish in order to not face persecution.

    Do you think that Christians don't read Paul's letters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    Romans.6:7 is talking about being set free from obeying sin when you "die to self" to follow Christ. Not about actual physical death.

    But it is true the Hebrew scriptures view of an afterlife is not very clear. The question is, is Christianity actually the "fulfillment" or "completion" of Judaism, as Christians are taught, or is it actually a whole NEW RELIGION, which borrows from, and bases it's concept, upon only a few strands of "theological DNA" from the Old Testament?
    Nice spin Maytag, but it doesn't wash!
    The following is the Linear Translation of the Greek Scripture:
    ho
    Rom. 6:7
    7 the [one]
    7 Art-NMS
    1063 [e]
    gar
    γὰρ
    indeed
    Conj
    599 [e]
    apothanōn
    ἀποθανὼν ,
    having died
    V-APA-NMS
    1344 [e]
    dedikaiōtai
    δεδικαίωται
    has been freed
    V-RIM/P-3S
    575 [e]
    apo
    ἀπὸ
    from
    Prep
    266 [e]
    hamartias
    ἁμαρτίας .
    sin

    N-GFS

    Ellicott's Commentary for English readers

    "Romans 6:7 - Is freed.“Absolved,” the same word that is used elsewhere for “justified.” The dead man is no longer liable to have the charge of sin brought against him. This is the general proposition, the major premise, adduced in proof of what had gone before, viz., the particular proposition that he who is ethically dead is no longer the slave of sin."

    The ancient nation of Israel came under the old Covenant (Mosaic Law)...

    The prophets do speak of a time of comfort, peace, and joy ( Micah 4:2-4; Isa 32:17-18;40:1-2;61:7, 10). but we now know this promise was to be fulfilled at the millennial kingdom when Israel as a nation that would be blessed and her enemies judged and destroyed. This ethnic/national/political salvation is what old Judaism looked forward to, not individual salvation from the bondage of sin. However, this promise of salvation, and a rebirth of everlasting life came later under the New Covenant, introduced by Jesus, and as proclaimed in the New Testament...
    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 04-21-2017 at 06:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-N-A-F-U View Post
    Nice spin Maytag, but it doesn't wash!
    The following is the Linear Translation of the Greek Scripture:
    ho
    Rom. 6:7
    7 the [one]
    7 Art-NMS
    1063 [e]
    gar
    γὰρ
    indeed
    Conj
    599 [e]
    apothanōn
    ἀποθανὼν ,
    having died
    V-APA-NMS
    1344 [e]
    dedikaiōtai
    δεδικαίωται
    has been freed
    V-RIM/P-3S
    575 [e]
    apo
    ἀπὸ
    from
    Prep
    266 [e]
    hamartias
    ἁμαρτίας .
    sin

    N-GFS

    Ellicott's Commentary for English readers

    "Romans 6:7 - Is freed.“Absolved,” the same word that is used elsewhere for “justified.” The dead man is no longer liable to have the charge of sin brought against him. This is the general proposition, the major premise, adduced in proof of what had gone before, viz., the particular proposition that he who is ethically dead is no longer the slave of sin."

    The ancient nation of Israel came under the old Covenant (Mosaic Law)...

    The prophets do speak of a time of comfort, peace, and joy ( Micah 4:2-4; Isa 32:17-18;40:1-2;61:7, 10). but we now know this promise was to be fulfilled at the millennial kingdom when Israel as a nation that would be blessed and her enemies judged and destroyed. This ethnic/national/political salvation is what old Judaism looked forward to, not individual salvation from the bondage of sin. However, this promise of salvation, and a rebirth of everlasting life came later under the New Covenant, introduced by Jesus, and as proclaimed in the New Testament...
    It's not easy being the "loneliest guy in town." Read the entire section...

    6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
    11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

    It is obviously speaking of death in a figurative or spiritualized sense, telling believers they have already, in this sense, died in Christ. So why sin anymore? (see statements in bold)
    Last edited by SharetheHedge; 04-21-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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    Continued below..
    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 04-22-2017 at 05:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    It's not easy being the "loneliest guy in town." Read the entire section...

    6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
    5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
    8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
    11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

    It is obviously speaking of death in a figurative or spiritualized sense, telling believers they have already, in this sense, died in Christ. So why sin anymore? (see statements in bold)

    I hearken back to my original point in Romans 6:7; "For he that is dead is freed from sin." (KJV) That applies to everyone. Those that have died in Christ receive special consideration as indicated....

    1Thess.4:16 speaks of those that are given hope that have "died in Christ" which doesn't negate what I previously posted. John goes further in that definition of hope:

    “Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. ...For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.” (John 1:1-21,25,4)

    IOW,
    Speaking of those that are non-repentant that have died with out the promise of salvation and resurrection -- nevertheless, will be absolved of their sins in death. -- No hells fire and eternal torment as portrayed in "Dante's Inferno."


    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 04-22-2017 at 05:56 AM.

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