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Thread: Masculinity in America

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    Masculinity in America

    I have been having a hard time figuring out why there are so many people who hate or at the least, dislike homosexuals. On this forum alone, I have seen people call homosexuals pedophiles, infer they have some sort of mental illness, are abominations to God and are disease carriers. I first thought it was because of the Bible, but considering that the New Testament mentions forgiveness 13 times but doesn't mention sodomy or sodomites at all and that the verse in Leviticus that declares men laying with men an abomination is just a little ways away from the line that declares eating lobster is an abomination I realized that the Bible is just justification for the real reason.

    I also noticed that while gay men are despised, lesbians seem to get more of a free pass in this society. Don't believe me? Do you think Justin Beiber would have had a big hit if he sung "I Kissed a Boy and I Liked It"? Do you think he would even still have a career as opposed to Katy Perry who skyrocketed to stardom for singing "I Kissed A Girl"?

    I then have to confront my own prejudices. I have no problems with gay men, my Best Man at my wedding is gay, however I am still uncomfortable around extremely effeminate men. Why is that?

    This all got me thinking and this is what I came up with. Our culture is so patriarchal and "male" oriented that any slight against masculinity is seen as an attack against our society. Just ask @Rina_Dragonborn about her thread against misogynists.

    This is why a woman acting like a man is more accepted than a man acting like a woman. This is why a man who is brave is said to have "balls", and being someone's "bitch" is akin to being a slave or worse. We hear phrases like "man up" and any show of emotion is seen as a weakness. Competition is valued more than cooperation and it is still seen as the man's duty to take care of his family financially, not the woman's.

    To be fair, I'm just as guilty as everyone else. I was also taught the American view of manhood and find myself doing stupid things because of it, however, I am aware of where my prejudices come from and can more easily fight them.

    Now, I know that I have opened a big can of worms with this thread and I'm sure my masculinity will be called into question, but I hope to open some eyes.
    "What a Long Strange Trip It's Been" - The Grateful Dead

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedarkdaimon View Post
    I have been having a hard time figuring out why there are so many people who hate or at the least, dislike homosexuals. On this forum alone, I have seen people call homosexuals pedophiles, infer they have some sort of mental illness, are abominations to God and are disease carriers. I first thought it was because of the Bible, but considering that the New Testament mentions forgiveness 13 times but doesn't mention sodomy or sodomites at all and that the verse in Leviticus that declares men laying with men an abomination is just a little ways away from the line that declares eating lobster is an abomination I realized that the Bible is just justification for the real reason.

    I also noticed that while gay men are despised, lesbians seem to get more of a free pass in this society. Don't believe me? Do you think Justin Beiber would have had a big hit if he sung "I Kissed a Boy and I Liked It"? Do you think he would even still have a career as opposed to Katy Perry who skyrocketed to stardom for singing "I Kissed A Girl"?

    I then have to confront my own prejudices. I have no problems with gay men, my Best Man at my wedding is gay, however I am still uncomfortable around extremely effeminate men. Why is that?

    This all got me thinking and this is what I came up with. Our culture is so patriarchal and "male" oriented that any slight against masculinity is seen as an attack against our society. Just ask @Rina_Dragonborn about her thread against misogynists.

    This is why a woman acting like a man is more accepted than a man acting like a woman. This is why a man who is brave is said to have "balls", and being someone's "bitch" is akin to being a slave or worse. We hear phrases like "man up" and any show of emotion is seen as a weakness. Competition is valued more than cooperation and it is still seen as the man's duty to take care of his family financially, not the woman's.

    To be fair, I'm just as guilty as everyone else. I was also taught the American view of manhood and find myself doing stupid things because of it, however, I am aware of where my prejudices come from and can more easily fight them.

    Now, I know that I have opened a big can of worms with this thread and I'm sure my masculinity will be called into question, but I hope to open some eyes.
    Perhaps that applies to some people but it goes much deeper with many of us.

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    I took 7 underground MMA fights and still train martial arts, and I weight train, so I'd say I'm somewhat manly, and I have no problem with gays whatsoever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The XL View Post
    I took 7 underground MMA fights and still train martial arts, and I weight train, so I'd say I'm somewhat manly, and I have no problem with gays whatsoever.
    The people? Nope no real issues here but if those that claim to speak for them try and push some sort of AA there will be issues from people like me.

    I have a big issue with the groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thedarkdaimon View Post
    Now, I know that I have opened a big can of worms with this thread and I'm sure my masculinity will be called into question, but I hope to open some eyes.
    Only by the latent homosexual homophobes. I've already identified a couple tonight.

    Others here take the Bible literally, although most also parse and cherry-pick the Bible for their own pleasures. Some are just prudes about any kind of sex and find even straight sex "naughty" and best done with the lights out. The thought of homosexual sex drives them into puritanical overload.

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    Same reason people hate black people, and cite a "black-on-white" crime pandemic as justification. Same reason they hate the Muslims, and cite their "religion" and screwed-up goings-on in Pakistan as a good case for getting them all interned. You're not going to get logical answers. Some people, I've just concluded, hate.
    TROOF
    Quote Originally Posted by Axiomatic View Post
    You want to force people to do one thing. They want to force people to do something else. That's all your stupid little conservative<->liberal arguments amount to. Is that simple enough for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char1es View Post
    Same reason people hate black people, and cite a "black-on-white" crime pandemic as justification. Same reason they hate the Muslims, and cite their "religion" and screwed-up goings-on in Pakistan as a good case for getting them all interned. You're not going to get logical answers. Some people, I've just concluded, hate.
    True, but that's just a starting point. "Why" they hate is a good subject for a Master's or Doctoral thesis in several areas of study.

    One area that I find interesting is xenophobia. Xenophobia is a survival trait. Due to the range of human emotions and intelligences, "hate", in some people, can simply be an extreme form of xenophobia. As noted in other threads, this emotion has a basis in fear.

    As this link notes, there are other reasons why people might hate:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-...ke-everything/
    The researchers found that people's dispositional attitudes often correlated with other similar traits, but were still statistically distinct, meaning that some optimists have a tendency to dislike many things, and some pessimists, likewise, might like lots of things.As with all personality traits, dispositional attitudes develop through a combination of one's biology and environment. The team has not yet assessed how therapy could help mediate these traits, but suggests that adjusting one's external stimuli, such as surrounding oneself with positive people, could ultimately sway a person from one side of the spectrum to the other.

    Turning a frown upside down

    These findings could potentially help people with strongly negative or positive dispositions become aware of their own role in their attitude toward things, and separate this from the inherent quality of those things. For example, a person with a negative disposition might read reviews before watching a movie, focus only on negative reviews, and end up not enjoying the movie either because they were influenced by the negative reviews or simply see themselves as contrary people. Becoming aware of this tendency may help that person assess movies or other things more objectively, Hepler explained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Rockatansky View Post
    True, but that's just a starting point. "Why" they hate is a good subject for a Master's or Doctoral thesis in several areas of study.

    One area that I find interesting is xenophobia. Xenophobia is a survival trait. Due to the range of human emotions and intelligences, "hate", in some people, can simply be an extreme form of xenophobia. As noted in other threads, this emotion has a basis in fear.

    As this link notes, there are other reasons why people might hate:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-...ke-everything/
    I get the impression a lot of this stuff is hardwired; never actually met anybody who "becomes" hateful. Disillusioned, maybe, but never ranting and nasty.
    TROOF
    Quote Originally Posted by Axiomatic View Post
    You want to force people to do one thing. They want to force people to do something else. That's all your stupid little conservative<->liberal arguments amount to. Is that simple enough for you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Char1es View Post
    I get the impression a lot of this stuff is hardwired; never actually met anybody who "becomes" hateful. Disillusioned, maybe, but never ranting and nasty.
    Without getting all touchy-feely, I think people can become hateful through abuse or conditioning, but like you, I think some is hardwired into people. The xenophobia angle.

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    First thing I notice, is the suggestion of needing eyes open. Nope. Everyone has their eyes open, on all sides of the issue. Little children possibly don't...but they are being indoctrinated (which by any other comparative application of the word, is extremely harmful to the human pysche).

    Second thing I notice, is the lack of understanding that there is a societal price to pay for the homosexual agenda. When a society is force fed via indoctrination (with particularly harmful tactics) it brings consequence. The denial of that is particularly aggravating. From my, (and possibly many peoples positions) is that while granting begrudged tolerance towards something that goes against every fiber of our being...there is NO responsibility for the destructiveness produced via the tactics of those homosexual gains, from the homosexual agendists and the homosexual community that supports their endeavors. Political correctness thought police, victim status, hate crime/speech legislation etc.

    The slippery slope for decades was cast off as nonsense by the leftists and in conjunction with the homosexual agendists. Looking at all of our societies now, it is/was obvious that it is very real, and will continue in other areas, progressively, downhill.

    The third thing I noticed was the latent homosexual tactic for those in disagreement. I won't even go there again in any detail, however, it was just an application of the very silencing tactic being displayed, as mentioned in the paragraphs above. Silencing a society has gruesome consequences, since it corrupts and manipulates their very thought processes.

    Finally, I have no issues with the actual homosexuals I know. I find them kind of whiny, in a squeaky wheel sort of way. Not the lesbians, more the males. Other than that, I am repulsed seeing anything male on male, but that is a normal response for almost every male I know. Has been for decades...centuries as a norm I would suspect.

    I have issue with what they have produced in our societies, via their tactics for gain.
    The Progressives have become full blown NAZIs, to thwart a Hitler that doesn't exist...since that is the only way they can express, and self justify, their fascism.

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