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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    NO.

    Scientific tenets are ALWAYS open to examination.

    Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Remember that? That was Settled Science, too. Until Einstein unsettled it.

    DOGMA is "settled." It must never be challenged. But scientific inquiry is an open examination of the physical world, to uncover new facts and truths.
    Exactly. So a dog, really isn't a dog. It is energy, or, is actually something that we call energy currently, which may not really be energy, in the future.
    The Progressives have become full blown NAZIs, to thwart a Hitler that doesn't exist...since that is the only way they can express, and self justify, their fascism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadianeye View Post
    Exactly. So a dog, really isn't a dog. It is energy, or, is actually something that we call energy currently, which may not really be energy, in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    NO.
    Scientific tenets are ALWAYS open to examination.

    Matter can neither be created nor destroyed. Remember that? That was Settled Science, too. Until Einstein unsettled it.

    DOGMA is "settled." It must never be challenged. But scientific inquiry is an open examination of the physical world, to uncover new facts and truths.
    IMO, a lot of confusion comes from not being able to differentiate between 'facts' and 'beliefs'. Especially in progresso world, they are blurred so much that nobody can tell the difference.

    I can calculate distance to some destination by multiplying the speed by the time. I can calculate geometric distance, or snow loads on roofs, with formulas tested to produce accurate results. I can rely on gravity to drain the bathtub, & not have water flying up in the air, soaking everything.

    But if i then correlate these known entities, for some unknown, & treat them the same, it is a fatal, logical & scientific flaw. You cannot predict global warming from any proven formulas. They are all contrived, with a political or ideological agenda.

    IOW, there are facts in this world.. facts of science that we rely on to function. But these facts are not related to the imagined projections of ideologues who CLAIM the mantle of 'science'. Science must be proved, via sound methodology, not just asserted like some dark ages mandate.
    America's foundational beliefs have transitioned from the enlightenment view of a Creator, Human equality, Natural Law, & individual freedom to the naturalistic, collectivist pop religion that currently permeates all of our culture. Progressivism is the State Religion, & is promoted & indoctrinated into the citizens with Jihadist zeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadianeye View Post
    Exactly. So a dog, really isn't a dog. It is energy, or, is actually something that we call energy currently, which may not really be energy, in the future.
    Don't confuse scientific hypotheses, or scientific facts, with biological identifications and classifications.

    A dog is a dog. Whatever we learn of it, it remains a dog. What we KNOW about a dog, may change with additional learned facts; but we know a dog is a dog.

    We know a Miniature Pinscher can breed with a Rottweiler. Maybe not happily; but offspring can result.

    We also know that a dog can mate with a woman, and nothing happens...except that a lot of Democrat voters will want to see the video.

    We may learn ways of altering dog DNA so as to create new forms of life. Then, the question need be asked, is it a good idea?

    But a dog, whatever we know of it, will always be a dog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    Don't confuse scientific hypotheses, or scientific facts, with biological identifications and classifications.

    A dog is a dog. Whatever we learn of it, it remains a dog. What we KNOW about a dog, may change with additional learned facts; but we know a dog is a dog.
    We know a Miniature Pinscher can breed with a Rottweiler. Maybe not happily; but offspring can result.

    We also know that a dog can mate with a woman, and nothing happens...except that a lot of Democrat voters will want to see the video.
    We may learn ways of altering dog DNA so as to create new forms of life. Then, the question need be asked, is it a good idea?
    But a dog, whatever we know of it, will always be a dog.
    America's foundational beliefs have transitioned from the enlightenment view of a Creator, Human equality, Natural Law, & individual freedom to the naturalistic, collectivist pop religion that currently permeates all of our culture. Progressivism is the State Religion, & is promoted & indoctrinated into the citizens with Jihadist zeal.

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    This interesting quote from Einstein has always intrigued me. I have always considered religious faith as something that is separate from scientific inquiry, but he correlates them as part of the quest for Truth. And, my experience over the years debating science, especially with militant atheists, confirms his point here. I generally avoid religious faith, when discussing scientific issues, but militant atheists ALWAYS bring it up. They constantly try to drive a wedge between religious faith & science, which they do not follow, themselves.

    Anyway, the more i ponder this quote, the more i tend to agree. Having some kind of clear belief system, & recognizing it as such, is a good foundation for scientific inquiry. Without that philosophical foundation, scientific inquiry blindly follows flawed assumptions. And without the empiricism of Facts & scientific methodology, the philosophical beliefs have no feet.. nothing to propel them.. they are lame. So it is a good quote, & worthy of consideration.


    I am reminded about John Locke, who was a fierce advocate of searching for Truth.

    “To love truth for truth's sake is the principal part of human perfection in this world, and the seed-plot of all other virtues.” ~John Locke

    Without this 'religious/philosophical' foundation, too much that is labelled 'science' is just agenda driven propaganda.. FAKE SCIENCE. There must be an underlying love for Truth, & a philosophical foundation of integrity & sincerity. Otherwise, as we see constantly in this world, science becomes an agenda.. a basis for manipulating people. It is what i have called, 'Fake Science'. It is not based on a 'holy curiosity of inquiry,' but indoctrination for some ideological agenda.

    Now, how i interpret 'religion' in Einstein's quote, is a clear recognition of one's philosophical opinion.. NOT a dogmatic insistence of Absolute Knowledge, that they cannot possibly have. And unfortunately, that is how the militant atheists present their beliefs.. they won't even call their opinions 'beliefs'. They dogmatically assert that they have Absolute Knowledge, & have no circumspection about the vast mysteries of the universe. Everything is neatly logged in a tidy package, bereft of mystery or the unknown. This blinds them to possibility, as Einstein is saying. It is NOT their atheism that is the problem, it is the lack of objectivity, & the lack of awe & wonder for the universe. They are without mystery, & are stuck in dogmatic assertions of false knowledge. They are blinded by their own dogmatism, & have lost the wonder of the 'religious' experience of mystery & the unknown.
    America's foundational beliefs have transitioned from the enlightenment view of a Creator, Human equality, Natural Law, & individual freedom to the naturalistic, collectivist pop religion that currently permeates all of our culture. Progressivism is the State Religion, & is promoted & indoctrinated into the citizens with Jihadist zeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usfan View Post
    'the 4 humors', and 'spontaneous generation' were also 'settled science' of the day. Not that long ago, vestigial organs were ballyhooed as a 'proof' of evolution. But they were just organs that the 'scientists' of the day didn't know what they were for.
    As recently as 2000, a biology textbook repeated the Big Lie, "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny," which was first propounded in 1859 and was discredited that very same year. But Big Lies make good copy and so it was repeated ad nauseum until very recently. Heigel faked his drawings of embryos, making various animal embryos look like each other, in his cowardly attempt to validate Darwinian evolution.

    All you need to know about Darwin's Big Lie is that his followers DEMAND that you provide some substitute before you are permitted to reject Darwinism. This insanity is no different from Obamacare supporters DEMANDING that you provide some substitute to his horrible scheme before repealing it. Bad ideas or theories must be rejected when they don't work. End of discussion.

    In the case of questioning our origins, we must simply state, "We don't know," which is true. In the case of Obamacare, we should emulate the free market, which provides our groceries every day, without fail, and with minimal government intervention.

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    Stephen Hawking is at his fake science again. This time he is venturing into politics, where his ignorance really shines. Hawking "fears" coming to the United States because of mean old President Trump. Trump's "electorate" are not "well informed," according to Hawking, his own ignorance on full display. He goes on to say that "robotic nanocraft" will be "pushed by lasers to 20% of the speed of light" and this excites Hawking, presumably as nothing else can.

    The pretense that a miniature machine, can produce a powerful laser beam, able to operate for a prolonged period of time, and propel its source, is unsupported and unsupportable science fiction of the most laughable variety. But then again, so is Hawking's claim that all the universe needed to create itself was "gravity." [Where did gravity come from? Since it is only a force which operates on masses, and there WERE no masses...]

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...tain-interview

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    Stephen Hawking is at his fake science again. This time he is venturing into politics, where his ignorance really shines. Hawking "fears" coming to the United States because of mean old President Trump. Trump's "electorate" are not "well informed," according to Hawking, his own ignorance on full display. He goes on to say that "robotic nanocraft" will be "pushed by lasers to 20% of the speed of light" and this excites Hawking, presumably as nothing else can, because after all, they would "take about 240 years" to reach the 7 newly discovered planets a measly 39 light years away, and Hawking is already 75 and in terrible health. Make any sense to you? Me neither.

    The pretense that a miniature machine, can produce a powerful laser beam, able to operate for a prolonged period of time, and propel its source, is unsupported and unsupportable science fiction of the most laughable variety. But then again, so is Hawking's claim that all the universe needed to create itself was "gravity." [Where did gravity come from? Since it is only a force which operates on masses, and there WERE no masses...]

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...tain-interview

    In closing, may I say that if you were to consider the great John Locke's phrase, "human perfection" even in the same day as you contemplate the likes of Hillary Clinton, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, liberalism, and the Lying Fake Media (but I repeat myself), your head will explode.
    Last edited by ChemEngineer; 03-20-2017 at 09:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemEngineer View Post
    Stephen Hawking is at his fake science again. This time he is venturing into politics, where his ignorance really shines. Hawking "fears" coming to the United States because of mean old President Trump. Trump's "electorate" are not "well informed," according to Hawking, his own ignorance on full display. He goes on to say that "robotic nanocraft" will be "pushed by lasers to 20% of the speed of light" and this excites Hawking, presumably as nothing else can.

    The pretense that a miniature machine, can produce a powerful laser beam, able to operate for a prolonged period of time, and propel its source, is unsupported and unsupportable science fiction of the most laughable variety. But then again, so is Hawking's claim that all the universe needed to create itself was "gravity." [Where did gravity come from? Since it is only a force which operates on masses, and there WERE no masses...]

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...tain-interview
    It is one of the central flaws of the 'Big Bang', that of HOW all matter decided to gather itself together in the size of a pea, or such. Here we have all matter, whirling through space, for millions of eternities, through infinite space. HOW would matter come back together? All matter would have dissipated & energy reduced to neutral equilibrium eons ago. We can accept the premise of infinite time. We can grasp the concept of infinite space. But there is no reason to assume infinite matter.. HOW would it have come about, anyway? And even if there was somehow, some globs of matter floating about, HOW would it order itself & form galaxies, stars, & planets? And HOW would it not be burnt out & dissipated millions of eternities past? Regardless of assertions from irrational fools like Hitchens, gravity cannot overcome inertia, and as all the stars & galaxies fly outward in their expansion, there is nothing to bring them together.. no Cause that can kickstart the universe. No Process that we can even imagine, much less measure or define.

    There is nothing more absurd than speculating a naturalistic view of the universe, except perhaps a supernaturalistic one. The whole concept of matter, life, space & time are beyond belief. They are irrational concepts in a universe that has no logic. The concept of a supernatural Creator is no more unbelievable than the even more unbelievable concept of naturalistic origins. It is the Fake Science crowd who pretends to frame one 'belief' as 'science!' and the other as 'religion'. Both of these are purely religious concepts & beliefs.. but you cannot say that to a naturalist.. they will get all bent out of shape, as they believe THEIR beliefs are Empirical Reality.
    America's foundational beliefs have transitioned from the enlightenment view of a Creator, Human equality, Natural Law, & individual freedom to the naturalistic, collectivist pop religion that currently permeates all of our culture. Progressivism is the State Religion, & is promoted & indoctrinated into the citizens with Jihadist zeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChemEngineer View Post
    Stephen Hawking is at his fake science again. This time he is venturing into politics, where his ignorance really shines. Hawking "fears" coming to the United States because of mean old President Trump. Trump's "electorate" are not "well informed," according to Hawking, his own ignorance on full display. He goes on to say that "robotic nanocraft" will be "pushed by lasers to 20% of the speed of light" and this excites Hawking, presumably as nothing else can, because after all, they would "take about 240 years" to reach the 7 newly discovered planets a measly 39 light years away, and Hawking is already 75 and in terrible health. Make any sense to you? Me neither.

    The pretense that a miniature machine, can produce a powerful laser beam, able to operate for a prolonged period of time, and propel its source, is unsupported and unsupportable science fiction of the most laughable variety. But then again, so is Hawking's claim that all the universe needed to create itself was "gravity." [Where did gravity come from? Since it is only a force which operates on masses, and there WERE no masses...]

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...tain-interview

    In closing, may I say that if you were to consider the great John Locke's phrase, "human perfection" even in the same day as you contemplate the likes of Hillary Clinton, Maxine Waters, Harry Reid, Barack Obama, liberalism, and the Lying Fake Media (but I repeat myself), your head will explode.
    We are born with faculties and powers capable almost of anything, such at least as would carry us farther than can easily be imagined: but it is only the exercise of those powers, which gives us ability and skill in any thing, and leads us towards perfection. ~John Locke

    The main difference, IMO, between the leftist propagandists, & the sincere search for Truth & Perfection, is in the core beliefs. The leftist, marxist, dawinist belief system has no absolutes. Everything is relative. There is no 'Truth'. The more newtonian view, is of a quest for Knowledge & understanding.. Truth is the goal, not validation or indoctrination. That is the core ideological difference, & it is on display every day, in every arena in our modern world.
    America's foundational beliefs have transitioned from the enlightenment view of a Creator, Human equality, Natural Law, & individual freedom to the naturalistic, collectivist pop religion that currently permeates all of our culture. Progressivism is the State Religion, & is promoted & indoctrinated into the citizens with Jihadist zeal.

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