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Thread: Dollars are debt, and that's how banks have always worked

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    I disagree.

    I have facts to back it up. Inflation was non-existent until Roosevelt started fooling with the value of the dollar.

    And it really took OFF, RIGHT AFTER Nixon walked away from a gold standard completely. Odd how the liberal media never made that connection.

    And we will forevermore have inflation, until and unless we return to sound money. The temptation of the printing press and unlimited bond-sales will keep on keeping on, until the dollar is worthless.
    You can't argue with these people, because what they say is really nothing, but in a language meant for mass media consumption. It has zero bases in fact and reality.

    They're a tag team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    I disagree.

    I have facts to back it up. Inflation was non-existent until Roosevelt started fooling with the value of the dollar.

    And it really took OFF, RIGHT AFTER Nixon walked away from a gold standard completely. Odd how the liberal media never made that connection.

    And we will forevermore have inflation, until and unless we return to sound money. The temptation of the printing press and unlimited bond-sales will keep on keeping on, until the dollar is worthless.
    Post your "evidence."
    Claiming inflation was nonexistent is absurdity.
    Yes, Nixon got us off the exchange, and now we're doing just fine. The dollar is fine, people have been preaching doomsday for decades.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
    I disagree.

    I have facts to back it up. Inflation was non-existent until Roosevelt started fooling with the value of the dollar.

    And it really took OFF, RIGHT AFTER Nixon walked away from a gold standard completely. Odd how the liberal media never made that connection.

    And we will forevermore have inflation, until and unless we return to sound money. The temptation of the printing press and unlimited bond-sales will keep on keeping on, until the dollar is worthless.
    There was inflation while we were on the gold standard, too. Prices are very stable these days - even through the 2008 crisis, prices of most things didn't change that much. Oil had it's effect, but that's not the dollar's fault. And right after we went fiat, one would expect some instability. We had to learn how to manage a whole new thing, with new rules and new properties that changed overnight. Most econ textbooks still teach the same stuff they taught during the gold standard days, even though things work very differently.

    We went off the gold standard because it was unworkable. When the government really needs dollars, like during wars or to get out of recessions, they can't have a gold standard stopping them from spending money. Gold is an artificial barrier. It's not the existence of gold that builds cities and factories.

    Does the dollar really seem worthless to you? I'm surrounded by stuff that my dollars bought. Too much stuff, really. Anyway, a little inflation is a good thing. It encourages people to put their dollars to good use, instead of sitting on them. The only problem with today's inflation is that wages aren't going up in price along with most other things. But again, like oil, that's not the dollar's fault, that's just a poor labor market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelr View Post
    You can't argue with these people, because what they say is really nothing, but in a language meant for mass media consumption. It has zero bases in fact and reality.

    They're a tag team.
    I'm supplying links that back up what I'm saying. But you have to go through the trouble of reading them.

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    DeficitOwl (03-12-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmCleveland View Post
    There was inflation while we were on the gold standard, too. Prices are very stable these days - even through the 2008 crisis, prices of most things didn't change that much. Oil had it's effect, but that's not the dollar's fault. And right after we went fiat, one would expect some instability. We had to learn how to manage a whole new thing, with new rules and new properties that changed overnight. Most econ textbooks still teach the same stuff they taught during the gold standard days, even though things work very differently.

    We went off the gold standard because it was unworkable. When the government really needs dollars, like during wars or to get out of recessions, they can't have a gold standard stopping them from spending money. Gold is an artificial barrier. It's not the existence of gold that builds cities and factories.

    Does the dollar really seem worthless to you? I'm surrounded by stuff that my dollars bought. Too much stuff, really. Anyway, a little inflation is a good thing. It encourages people to put their dollars to good use, instead of sitting on them. The only problem with today's inflation is that wages aren't going up in price along with most other things. But again, like oil, that's not the dollar's fault, that's just a poor labor market.
    I always tell people.. If the dollar is so worthless, why don't you simply send all your dollars to me?
    (And then people realize taxes create a demand for the "worthless" dollar.)
    Last edited by DeficitOwl; 03-12-2016 at 02:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeficitOwl View Post
    Post your "evidence."
    Claiming inflation was nonexistent is absurdity.
    Yes, Nixon got us off the exchange, and now we're doing just fine. The dollar is fine, people have been preaching doomsday for decades.
    Facts are facts.

    And you don't deal with facts.

    You can use Google just as easily as I can. Why should I research for someone who's here to throw out Talking Points, rather than to discuss?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmCleveland View Post
    I'm supplying links that back up what I'm saying. But you have to go through the trouble of reading them.
    You're supplying propaganda to support insanity. You and this other guy are so far fetched that you need each other to convey foolishness.

    They went off the gold standard so they can remove the ceiling! You said prices are stable. Funny you should mention stable as that's horse shit. You have deflation. You people think printing money and low or neg rates improve an economy. Reality says in an economy you don't happy horse shit. Reality also says ''trying to improve an economy with extreme unemployment by pumping money into it is akin to turning up the heat under the pot after the water evaporated''!!

    But you'll come up some weird nonsense, show some propaganda, your partner will point you, y'all will talk in the background getting your horse shit strait, and post it.

    Let me save you some trouble. Neither of you are woth it, so say what you want. I may or most likely wont read it. Good day!

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmCleveland View Post
    There was inflation while we were on the gold standard, too. Prices are very stable these days - even through the 2008 crisis, prices of most things didn't change that much. Oil had it's effect, but that's not the dollar's fault. And right after we went fiat, one would expect some instability. We had to learn how to manage a whole new thing, with new rules and new properties that changed overnight. Most econ textbooks still teach the same stuff they taught during the gold standard days, even though things work very differently.

    We went off the gold standard because it was unworkable. When the government really needs dollars, like during wars or to get out of recessions, they can't have a gold standard stopping them from spending money. Gold is an artificial barrier. It's not the existence of gold that builds cities and factories.

    Does the dollar really seem worthless to you? I'm surrounded by stuff that my dollars bought. Too much stuff, really. Anyway, a little inflation is a good thing. It encourages people to put their dollars to good use, instead of sitting on them. The only problem with today's inflation is that wages aren't going up in price along with most other things. But again, like oil, that's not the dollar's fault, that's just a poor labor market.
    First of all price rises are not inflation. Price rises are rising prices. Due to scarcity of key staple goods; increased demand, additional cost in harvesting and manufacture.

    Prices can rise on food with a stable money supply, because of scarcity of food. Prices can FALL, too, due to lowered demand; increased competition and lowered processing costs; increased wealth from new technologies or industries.

    The currency has had some minor inflations and deflations at times, also. Government meddling with the money supply. Remember the Free Silver Party? They weren't about handing out silver; they were about demaning "free and unlimited coinage of silver." INFLATING THE CURRENCY. To help debtors - and in the process hurt savers.

    Comparative Value of a 1800 U.S. Dollar (Approximate)


  11. #29
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    Comparative Value of a 1800 U.S. Dollar (Approximate)


    year CPI
    Avg
    dollar value %
    inflation
    historical events
    1800 51 $1.000 --
    1801 50 $1.020 -2.1%
    1802 43 $1.186 -14.1%
    1803 45 $1.133 5.0% Louisiana Purchase; Ohio admitted to Union
    1804 45 $1.133 0.0%
    1805 45 $1.133 0.0%
    1806 47 $1.085 4.2%
    1807 44 $1.159 -6.3%
    1808 48 $1.063 9.2%
    1809 47 $1.085 -2.2%
    1810 47 $1.085 0.0%
    1811 50 $1.020 6.3%
    1812 51 $1.000 2.2% War of 1812; Louisiana admitted to Union
    1813 58 $0.879 13.8%
    1814 63 $0.810 8.4%
    1815 55 $0.927 -12.4% Napoleon defeated
    1816 51 $1.000 -7.4% Indiana admitted to Union
    1817 48 $1.063 -5.8% Mississippi admitted to Union
    1818 46 $1.109 -4.5% Illinois admitted to Union
    1819 46 $1.109 0.0% Alabama admitted to Union
    1820 42 $1.214 -8.2% Maine admitted to Union
    1821 40 $1.275 -5.1% Missouri admitted to Union
    1822 40 $1.275 0.0%
    1823 36 $1.417 -10.1%
    1824 33 $1.545 -8.3%
    1825 34 $1.500 3.3%
    1826 34 $1.500 0.0%
    1827 34 $1.500 0.0% first railroad in U.S.
    1828 33 $1.545 -3.2%
    1829 32 $1.594 -2.5%
    1830 32 $1.594 0.0%
    1831 32 $1.594 0.0%
    1832 30 $1.700 -6.7%
    1833 29 $1.759 -3.6%
    1834 30 $1.700 3.7%
    1835 31 $1.645 3.6%
    1836 33 $1.545 6.1% Colt's revolver; Arkansas admitted to Union
    1837 34 $1.500 3.3% Michigan admitted to Union
    1838 32 $1.594 -5.6%
    1839 32 $1.594 0.0%
    1840 30 $1.700 -6.7%
    1841 31 $1.645 3.6%
    1842 29 $1.759 -7.0%
    1843 28 $1.821 -2.8%
    1844 28 $1.821 0.0%
    1845 28 $1.821 0.0% Florida & Texas admitted to Union
    1846 27 $1.889 -3.8% Iowa admitted to Union
    1847 28 $1.821 4.0%
    1848 26 $1.962 -7.7% Wisconsin admitted to Union
    1849 25 $2.040 -3.1% California gold rush
    1850 25 $2.040 0.0% end "little ice age" (~1350-1850) warm trend; California admitted to Union
    1851 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1852 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1853 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1854 27 $1.889 7.5%
    1855 28 $1.821 4.0%
    1856 27 $1.889 -3.8%
    1857 28 $1.821 4.0%
    1858 26 $1.962 -7.7% Minnesota admitted to Union
    1859 27 $1.889 4.2% Colorado gold rush; Oregon admitted to Union
    1860 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1861 27 $1.889 0.0% Civil War; Kansas admitted to Union
    1862 30 $1.700 11.0%
    1863 37 $1.378 23.4% West Virginia admitted to Union
    1864 47 $1.085 27.0% Nevada admitted to Union
    1865 46 $1.109 -2.3% end Civil War
    1866 44 $1.159 -4.1%
    1867 42 $1.214 -4.3% Nebraska admitted to Union; Midway Islands Territory
    1868 40 $1.275 -5.1%
    1869 40 $1.275 0.0% Transcontinental Railroad completed
    1870 38 $1.342 -4.7% Suez Canal completed
    1871 36 $1.417 -5.7%
    1872 36 $1.417 0.0%
    1873 36 $1.417 0.0% "Long Depression" ~1873 -- ~1897
    1874 34 $1.500 -5.3%

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    1875 33 $1.545 -3.2%
    1876 32 $1.594 -2.5% A.G. Bell - telephone; Colorado admitted to Union
    1877 32 $1.594 0.0%
    1878 29 $1.759 -10.1%
    1879 28 $1.821 -2.8%
    1880 29 $1.759 2.9%
    1881 29 $1.759 0.0%
    1882 29 $1.759 0.0%
    1883 28 $1.821 -2.8%
    1884 27 $1.889 -3.8%
    1885 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1886 27 $1.889 0.0% gasoline automobiles in Europe
    1887 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1888 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1889 27 $1.889 0.0% North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana & Washington admitted to Union
    1890 27 $1.889 0.0% Idaho & Wyoming admitted to Union
    1891 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1892 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1893 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1894 26 $1.962 -4.0%
    1895 25 $2.040 -3.1% Marconi -- telegraph
    1896 25 $2.040 0.0% Klondike gold rush; penicillin; Utah admitted to Union
    1897 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1898 25 $2.040 0.0% end Spanish-American War; Puerto Rico Territory
    1899 25 $2.040 0.0% American Samoa Territory
    1900 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1901 25 $2.040 0.0%
    1902 26 $1.962 3.2% Oldsmobile production line
    1903 27 $1.889 4.2%
    1904 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1905 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1906 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1907 28 $1.821 4.0% Oklahoma admitted to Union
    1908 27 $1.889 -3.8%
    1909 27 $1.889 0.0%
    1910 28 $1.821 4.0% Ford production line
    1911 28 $1.821 0.0%
    1912 29 $1.759 2.9% New Mexico & Arizona admitted to Union
    1913 29.7 $1.717 2.8% ** Federal Reserve Act
    1914 30.1 $1.694 0.9% WW-I begins
    1915 30.4 $1.678 1.8%
    1916 32.7 $1.560 7.1%
    1917 38.4 $1.328 17.4% U.S. enters WW-I
    1918 45.1 $1.131 17.6% end WW-I; influenza epidemic
    1919 51.8 $0.985 15.0% influenza epidemic -- ( epidemic list)
    1920 60 $0.850 15.6% recession
    1921 53.6 $0.951 -10.4%
    1922 50.2 $1.016 -6.5%
    1923 51.1 $0.998 1.6%
    1924 51.2 $0.996 0.5%
    1925 52.5 $0.971 2.1%
    1926 53 $0.962 1.0%
    1927 52 $0.981 -1.5% Virgin Islands Territory
    1928 51.3 $0.994 -1.6%
    1929 51.3 $0.994 0.0% Great Depression -- through 1930's
    1930 50 $1.020 -2.6%
    1931 45.6 $1.118 -8.6%
    1932 40.9 $1.247 -10.7% New Deal
    1933 38.8 $1.314 -4.6% Third Reich
    1934 40.1 $1.272 3.5%
    1935 41.1 $1.241 2.0%
    1936 41.5 $1.229 1.3%
    1937 43 $1.186 3.2% recession
    1938 42.2 $1.209 -1.9%
    1939 41.6 $1.226 -1.3% invasion of Poland - WW-II
    1940 42 $1.214 1.3%
    1941 44.1 $1.156 4.5% Pearl Harbor - U.S. in WW-II
    1942 48.8 $1.045 11.0% baby boom (~1940 - 1957)
    1943 51.8 $0.985 6.1%
    1944 52.7 $0.968 1.6%
    1945 53.9 $0.946 2.6% end WW-II
    1946 58.5 $0.872 8.5% ENIAC -- computer
    1947 66.9 $0.762 14.3% Micronesia, Mariana Islands, Marshall Islands & Palua Territories
    1948 72.1 $0.707 7.7%
    1949 71.4 $0.714 -1.1%
    1950 72.1 $0.707 1.1% Korean War; Guam Territory

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