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Thread: Why the Confederacy Lives

  1. #31
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2cent View Post
    THANK YOU!

    I can't believe how many people claim to know their history, while clinging to the notion that "Lincoln freed the slaves," and it was all Democrats who kept the black enslaved, and that's what the whole war was about.

    NOTHING could be further from the truth! Aside from Democrats and Republicans being of a distinct different nature at the time, (they pretty well switched personalities along the way), the war was NOT fought over slavery.
    It was fought over the (then) Republicans trying to enslave the South. Just as you say, with their tariffs, and controlling over to just who, and which countries, the South could sell their goods. England would give them a far better price for their textiles, but the South was denied the ability to do so, by law.
    The North, via Lincoln, and his miscreants, also thought they had some 'right' to take over the properties of men who slaved all their lives to build them. They broke so many Constitutionally protected rights - including the 5th - which nearly abandoned taking land without just compensation.

    Our country died at Appomattox, for it was on that day that states' rights ended.
    Yes. Many don't know that Lincoln's real power base was the over 100 War Democrats in Congress, and of course Buchanan gave him the idea of using Ft. Sumter to provoke the war among the fence sitters; when the northern states and NYC got the news the Confederates were planning to ship their trade directly to England and Europe via Charleston, they immediately switched to war, since they would lose their monopoly on American shipping and trade, plus the 10% southern tariffs would guarantee them domination of the Mississippi and western trade, wrecking Lincoln's plans to rob the South to pay for northern expansion projects the South would have received no benefit from.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pregnar Kraps View Post
    Do you dispute that slavery was the crux of the matter causing the South to want to secede and that the Emancipation Proclamation, freeing the slaves, was an important turning point in the Civil War?
    No, don't agree. The signing of the Emancipation Proclamation had little to do as a turning point of the war.

    First, it wasn't Lincoln's idea to free the slaves with it.

    Second, it only freed those slaves who were living in bondage in the states in rebellion against the Union.
    Doubtful that any of the slaves in bondage were freed by the proclamation, unless the Union Army had control of the area in which they lived. The proclamation was a war measure similar to Sherman's March To The Sea, to deny the rebels the use of their slaves against the Union Armies. The slaves were not freed until the war ended, or Union troops took over an area where they lived in bondage.

    Lincoln was looking for a Union victory to ease into it and make it palatable. He used the battle of Antietam in Maryland as his excuse. A battle that essentially was fought to a bloody draw, but because it stopped Lee's first invasion of the North with his Army of Northern Virginia, and he retreated back over the Potomac River Lincoln called it a victory. It was hardly that.

    The real turning point of the American Civil War occurred on July 1,2,3, 1863 at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, stopping Lee's second invasion of the North, a decisive Union victory. It is the most written about battle in American history, perhaps world history, even today.

    After Lee's foolish order for Pickett to lead 12,000 Confederates on a frontal charge, uphill, against entrenched Union troops, where they were destroyed, the Army of Northern Virginia never again took the field offensively. They were in constant defensive posture or retreating the last two bloody years of the war.

    The Army of the Potomac, led by General Grant, gave Lee's army no break to recoup, recover or be reinforced after Pickett's disastrous charge, which caused Lee to retreat across the Potomac River again.

    General Meade, in charge of the Union army at Gettysburg the last two days, he didn't arrive until evening on July 1st, after the army had held the Confederates on that day, and entrenched across the high ground outside of Gettysburg. The town was never the prize, destruction of either army was.

    When Lee retreated, Meade telegraphed Lincoln telling him that "we have driven the enemy from our soil." Lincoln exploded in anger yelling they don't understand anything "it is all our soil." As soon as he could cashier Meade, he brought in Grant and Sherman who had no problem shedding Union or Confederate blood.

    Although Union troops rescued and freed Black slaves wherever they went, putting many of them to work in the Army digging graves and acting as stretcher bearers; (they wouldn't fight until late in the war as members of the Army in the 54th Massachusetts Regiment being the first all Black regiment organized); the soldiers were not fighting to end slavery as an institution, but to destroy the Confederacy, its Army, and depriving that army of arms; supplies and food. Sherman's March To The Sea, cutting a sixty mile wide swatch through Georgia, destroying towns, houses, livestock and crops in total war, against civilians, wasn't to end slavery.

    I doubt if any Union soldier, charging Lee's men in the Wilderness, Petersburg, or across western-Virginia, where they finally cornered them at Appomattox Courthouse, thought one bit about freeing slaves when attacking rebel positions.

    Ending slavery was a political idea, but it probably wasn't shared much or thought about in the Union Army during the war.


    Stan
    Last edited by StanAtStanFan; 01-14-2020 at 04:40 PM.

  5. #34
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    dont forget Perryville. with a Gettysburg loss and a PortHudson surrender, and a Perryville victory Banks wouldve been hightailing it back to indiana to defend the ohio crossing points. as for Gettysburg, with the Hood capturing of Big Roundtop an additional 2,000 men with axes and 8 3" james rifles wouldve changed the entire battle.
    sic semper tyrannis

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    Last edited by StanAtStanFan; 01-15-2020 at 02:19 AM.

  8. #36
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    Writers in the South recognized the advantage of "wage slaves" over "chattel slaves" and chattel slavery was going. The issue was, where. One southern state had already passed a law saying any slave emancipated had to immediately leave the state.

    The North didn't want them. So, what to do? First, laws that kept the slaves in the South and kept the South serving the industrialized north. When that failed the North started the war and then offered slaves 40 acres and a mule if they stayed where they were.

    Of course, the yankees reneged on the 40 acres and a mule and blacks in the U.S. might be figuring it out now.

    Abraham Lincoln did not free a single slave in the United States. Slaves, in both the north and the south, had to wait for the 13th Amendment which was passed after Lincoln was dead. Slavery was not illegal in the north before or during, or after the war. Of course, the yankees required the conquered states to vote for the 13th amendment.

    President U.S. Grant was the last president to have a slave in the White House. It was technically his wife's family's slave.
    Last edited by patrickt; 01-15-2020 at 08:32 AM.

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post
    Neither is it a white supremacy or pro-slavery thang. If i gotta explain it...you wouldn't get it anyway.
    It's a "cultural" thing or a way to express Southern Identify right @Calypso Jones ?.

    Or if your like me I think of Smokey and the Bandit ..

    or the Dukes of Hazzard and the General Lee jumping over a cliff ..
    ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post
    Neither is it a white supremacy or pro-slavery thang. If i gotta explain it...you wouldn't get it anyway.
    It's a "cultural" thing or a way to express Southern Identify right @Calypso Jones ?.

    Or if your like me I think of Smokey and the Bandit ..

    or the Dukes of Hazzard and the General Lee jumping over a cliff ..
    ..

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