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Thread: Pastor Questions Bible’s Truth Because Not Enough Black People Helped Translate It

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    Many individual churches (not necessarily denominations) are in a state of apostasy. Just as one should carefully vet the school they send their children to, they should vet the neighborhood church they attend.
    Amen.

    It's difficult to discern sometimes.

    Plus then, there is the usual institutional Behavior, the exclusionary stuff and the politics and all that.

    Recently I went down to my mom's Church, she was married there and I was baptized there, and I hadn't been there in a while and the minister told me I had to take a class if I wanted to become a member. I started laughing, I laughed right in his face.

    I said words to the effect of mister, I'm not taking any class. I'm a member here and I always will be, whether you recognize it or not. This church was mine before it was yours, and if you think it's yours, you are mistaken.

    He just stared at me without saying a word, because apparently no one has ever dared speak to him that way before.

    But I'm merciless with the organized institutions, I don't take any crap from any of their representatives. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who dares to tell me I'm not a Christian is an evil person oh, they're making judgments about something they don't understand.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-N-A-F-U View Post
    [QUOTE-@
    [/COLOR]
    <chuckle>


    Yes, I've been down this road before. I suggest you become familiar with the cited scriptures. If you want to put aside the Bible and believe this Hog Wash, be my guest.

    A·poc·ry·pha
    /əˈpäkrəfə/
    noun

    • biblical or related writings not forming part of the accepted canon of Scripture.
      • writings or reports not considered genuine.
        plural noun: apocrypha






    btw, thank you for the discussion, and I'm sorry I jumped on you. It's not you, I jump on a lot of people haha

    My problem is, I don't like organized religion. I think it's fine for many people, but it's not fine for me. I believe in a direct relationship because that is what the Bible tells me and that is also been my experience. In this case my experiences match the words, so I call it the truth. And, I have faith because I have experiences - that is to say, I had already read the Bible cover to cover before I ever became a Christian - the words didn't do it for me, I had to have the experience which gave meaning to the words.

    So, I'm one of those seeker types, I have studied, extensively. I'll tell you what I learned in one of those piled higher and deeper classes - the word "apocryphal" means "hidden". It doesn't mean "miscellaneous".

    Stuff like that drives me crazy, from my viewpoint this is institutional theology creeping into the real relationship between me and my God.

    By what Authority does anyone say a manuscript is "miscellaneous"? While it is true that the so-called canonical gospels may tell enough of the story so it would be "sufficient" for most people, it's a big leap from there to "complete".

    When it comes to religion, I fully disagree with any concept of "complete and final".

    I believe that God speaks to us in real time, and constantly reveals new things to us every single day.

    And if you're in the complete and final land, you're missing the boat, you're not paying attention.

    That's my opinion, which is offered humbly and is probably worth even less than the fraction of the two pennies it was worth a few seconds ago.
    Last edited by nonsqtr; 09-17-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    Amen.

    It's difficult to discern sometimes.

    Plus then, there is the usual institutional Behavior, the exclusionary stuff and the politics and all that.

    Recently I went down to my mom's Church, she was married there and I was baptized there, and I hadn't been there in a while and the minister told me I had to take a class if I wanted to become a member. I started laughing, I laughed right in his face.

    I said words to the effect of mister, I'm not taking any class. I'm a member here and I always will be, whether you recognize it or not. This church was mine before it was yours, and if you think it's yours, you are mistaken.

    He just stared at me without saying a word, because apparently no one has ever dared speak to him that way before.

    But I'm merciless with the organized institutions, I don't take any crap from any of their representatives. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who dares to tell me I'm not a Christian is an evil person oh, they're making judgments about something they don't understand.
    I have the opposite experience. My church used to require classes before someone was baptized and gave their confession of faith. We used to have many baptisms then. Now we have a SJW pastor and baptisms happen infrequently. When they do, it is all about joining, not being saved. We average 35 on any given Sunday in a building that once sat 800-1000.We have opted to end our ministry after 125 years.
    Last edited by Piru; 09-18-2019 at 01:01 AM.
    Beware the fury of a patient man - John Dryden

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  6. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    [/COLOR]
    <chuckle>


    Yes, I've been down this road before. I suggest you become familiar with the cited scriptures. If you want to put aside the Bible and believe this Hog Wash, be my guest.

    A·poc·ry·pha
    /əˈpäkrəfə/
    noun

    • biblical or related writings not forming part of the accepted canon of Scripture.
      • writings or reports not considered genuine.
        plural noun: apocrypha








    The Apocrypha is 14 (plus or minus a few) books that were displaced from the Bible by the Westminster arrangement in the middle 1600s.

    Calling the non-canonical books "apocryphal" is ERRONEOUS, it is a theological trick, it is an effort to lump all the non canonical books into a single category.

    It is WRONG, it is an erroneous use of both history and language.

    Please don't try to evoke Authority from theology, my natural and immediate response will be to tear that argument a new one, quickly and efficiently.

    I do not like that middle-aged fucking mumbo-jumbo, I hate it with every fiber of my being. Most of that crap comes out of the Inquisition, and I hate that too.

    [/QUOTE]

  7. #115
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    [QUOTE nonsqtr]
    The Apocrypha is 14 (plus or minus a few) books that were displaced from the Bible by the Westminster arrangement in the middle 1600s.
    Calling the non-canonical books "apocryphal" is ERRONEOUS, it is a theological trick, it is an effort to lump all the non canonical books into a single category.
    It is WRONG, it is an erroneous use of both history and language.

    Please don't try to evoke Authority from theology, my natural and immediate response will be to tear that argument a new one, quickly and efficiently.

    I do not like that middle-aged fucking mumbo-jumbo, I hate it with every fiber of my being. Most of that crap comes out of the Inquisition, and I hate that too. [/QUOTE]

    Your source has to be authoritative without question! <chuckle>


    Yes, speculations have flourished in recent years, a resurgence that is due, in part, to popular movies and novels. Besides fanciful fiction, there have also been many books and articles that focus attention on apocryphal writings from the second and third centuries C.E. that claim to reveal facts about Jesus omitted from the Gospels. Such claims have been proven invalid by recognized Biblical historians.



    Most importantly, one must consider the adaption of Pagan beliefs, along with the spurious apocryphal books to Scriptures by Constantine's early "Universal Church" (RCC) during the 3rd-4th century...
    "Roman Catholicism, although teaching that the Bible is the Word of God, adds the spurious apocryphal books to the Scriptures, and also elevates church tradition and the edicts of popes and councils (the words of men), to the same or an even greater level of authority than the Word of God. This amounts to adding to the Word of God, thereby placing Roman Catholicism under God's curse. (Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18-19)
    Cult of Roman Catholicism

    Apocrypha of Christian origin

    The term Christian here is used in a comprehensive sense and embraces works produced both by Catholics and heretics; the latter are chiefly members of the various branches or schools of Gnosticism, which flourished in the second and third centuries. The Christian apocryphal writings in general imitate the books of the New Testament and therefore, with a few exceptions, fall under the description of Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Apocalypses.




    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 09-18-2019 at 06:06 AM.

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  9. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-N-A-F-U View Post

    Your source has to be authoritative without question! <chuckle>


    Yes, speculations have flourished in recent years, a resurgence that is due, in part, to popular movies and novels. Besides fanciful fiction, there have also been many books and articles that focus attention on apocryphal writings from the second and third centuries C.E. that claim to reveal facts about Jesus omitted from the Gospels. Such claims have been proven invalid by recognized Biblical historians.



    Most importantly, one must consider the adaption of Pagan beliefs, along with the spurious apocryphal books to Scriptures by Constantine's early "Universal Church" (RCC) during the 3rd-4th century...
    "Roman Catholicism, although teaching that the Bible is the Word of God, adds the spurious apocryphal books to the Scriptures, and also elevates church tradition and the edicts of popes and councils (the words of men), to the same or an even greater level of authority than the Word of God. This amounts to adding to the Word of God, thereby placing Roman Catholicism under God's curse. (Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18-19)
    Cult of Roman Catholicism

    Apocrypha of Christian origin

    The term Christian here is used in a comprehensive sense and embraces works produced both by Catholics and heretics; the latter are chiefly members of the various branches or schools of Gnosticism, which flourished in the second and third centuries. The Christian apocryphal writings in general imitate the books of the New Testament and therefore, with a few exceptions, fall under the description of Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Apocalypses.




    Well, the cut and paste is all very interesting, and opinionated... it's what I said, this is theology, it's an argument over Authority. Your cut and paste disses the Catholics, so maybe it originates from the Protestant side. Each side claims they're correct. I claim neither is correct, because both factions make assertions of completeness.

    I think if you're arguing about the authority of a book, you're missing the point. Your job is to study, not to argue. Your words indicate that you are scared of being polluted by "false stories", and all that tells me is maybe you have a difficult time discerning.

    Maybe you ought to take a look at the various compendia of literature before the first ecumenical council. Maybe you want to take a look at the state of contemporary Jewish literature too. "Scribes", is a good word, a good place to start looking.

    "Heretics" is an interesting word too. My how the definition of that word has changed over time. But yes, Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake for "heresy". His crime? He said even more than Copernicus - he said the distant stars were surrounded by their own planets. For this the Church took his life. Oh and he also had issues with eternal damnation and the trinity - which all things considered were probably even more important than the challenge to human authority. (These days we call it "terminal uniqueness" lol).

    Y'know... how dare you challenge the church's Authority blah blah blah ad nauseam. No matter how thinly or thickly disguised, it's still an authority fallacy.

    You have to read everything, that's how you learn to discern. You have to talk to everyone, otherwise you'll never get to know who the bad guys are, or how to tell them apart.

    Anyway... yes there are some interesting allegories in the Gospel of Thomas. That whole bit about femininity has everything to do with the practice of first-century Christianity, and you have to understand it in that context, it cannot and should not be understood in a modern context.
    Last edited by nonsqtr; 09-18-2019 at 06:34 AM.

  10. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    Btw - no one's putting aside the Bible. I read it every day. I'm using it for its true purpose, which is the education of "me". I read the whole thing cover to cover 7 times already, and every time I read it I still get something new out of it.

    Who knows, maybe your experience is not the same. Like I said before, whatever works for you is fine - but generalizing that to me is not fine, and judging me on that basis is not fine either.

    I'm not questioning your scriptural knowledge per se. However, one doesn't just read the Bible to get a modicum of understanding of God's intent and purpose. One must study it intensely! And most of all, without God's blessing one will never get the true meaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    Btw - no one's putting aside the Bible. I read it every day. I'm using it for its true purpose, which is the education of "me". I read the whole thing cover to cover 7 times already, and every time I read it I still get something new out of it.

    Who knows, maybe your experience is not the same. Like I said before, whatever works for you is fine - but generalizing that to me is not fine, and judging me on that basis is not fine either.

    I'm not questioning your scriptural knowledge per se. However, one doesn't just read the Bible to get a modicum of understanding of God's intent and purpose. One must study it intensely! And most of all, without God's blessing one will never get the true meaning.

    “Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright.”— 2 Tim. 2:15

    The favor and approval of Almighty God is extended to the man who studies and treasures up the instructions contained in that sacred Word. That man is wise in Jehovah’s eyes. To him will come peace and life from God. But, as something of importance now, such man is permitted to stand before Jehovah and minister to Him, handling his Word, dispensing its life-giving truths to a bewildered, spiritually starved world.— Prov. 3:1-6
    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 09-18-2019 at 06:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by S-N-A-F-U View Post
    I'm not questioning your scriptural knowledge per se. However, one doesn't just read the Bible to get a modicum of understanding of God's intent and purpose. One must study it intensely! And most of all, without God's blessing one will never get the true meaning.
    Excellent example of circular logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    I think it has less to do with the words on a piece of paper, and more to do with the relationship of a human being to the universe.
    That is all there is.

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