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Thread: Have You Ever Pondered Eternity?

  1. #11
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    @SharetheHedge......sure it's a matter of faith.I make no bones about that.However, it is just as valid an argument/belief because there is no proof to the contrary either.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    But honestly, there's no substance to your argument that there "HAS to be more"? It seems to be based on emotion and whim?
    What is the evidence that an individual's consciousness can or will exist apart from the brain? Where else can it be demonstrated that our consciousness RESIDES?
    I find it difficult at times to involve myself anymore into these types of discussions...since it is almost at times necessary to delve into the "God is real - No he is not" overall debate point.

    I did read though that a few people have discussed that the removal of time is obviously going to produce eternity/eternal, meaning it doesn't mean a billion zillion "years" in paradise/heaven - just eternally in paradise, due to the absence of time.

    I've always thought that, even as an atheist, philosophically speculating regarding deities and paradise and eternity.
    The Progressives have become full blown NAZIs, to thwart a Hitler that doesn't exist...since that is the only way they can express, and self justify, their fascism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East of the Beast View Post
    @SharetheHedge......sure it's a matter of faith.I make no bones about that.However, it is just as valid an argument/belief because there is no proof to the contrary either.

    It is NOT just as valid an argument because we KNOW, physiologically, that thoughts and emotions originate in the brain - thoughts and emotions that constitute our consciousness. In fact, this is the PURPOSE of the brain. Your position has the burden of proof - that consciousness can exist apart from that physical organ. Your position cannot be disproven only because it is unfalsifiable...

    Unfalsifiability

    (also known as: untestability)

    Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.
    Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.
    Last edited by SharetheHedge; 09-04-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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    If you don't practice...you'll sound like it. And, if you don't tune, your life will sound like it, too. Listen to the intervals. That's where it all hides from you.....

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    Since there is no consciousness without a living brain, I say we are all worm food.

    Our molecules, atoms will last for a very, very long time however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East of the Beast View Post
    When we die we join the countless billions who have gone on before us. Will we be in another stream of consciousness? Will we know them? Will we be asleep until the Good Shepard calls us home?

    Thoughts please.

    “TIME seems to be one of the most mysterious forms of human experience,” states one encyclopedia. Yes, to define time in simple terms is nearly impossible. We may say that time “elapses,” “goes,” “flies,” and even that we ourselves are moving in “the stream of time.” But we really do not know what we are talking about.


    Time has been defined as the “distance between two events.” Yet, our experience seems to tell us that time is independent of events; it appears to go on whether something happens or not. One philosopher claims that time actually does not exist but is simply something imagined. Can that on which so much of our experience is built be merely a figment of our imagination?


    The Bible does not give any definition of time, suggesting that it is perhaps beyond man’s ability to understand fully. It is like the endless expanse of space, which we also find difficult to comprehend. Time, apparently, is one of those things that only God can fully understand, for he alone is “from time indefinite to time indefinite.”--Psalm 90:2.

    Even though the Bible does not define time, it does speak of time as a reality. To start with, the Bible tells us that God created the “luminaries”​--the sun, moon, and stars--​as time markers, to “serve as signs and for seasons and for days and years.” Many events recorded in the Bible are firmly placed in the stream of time. (Genesis 1:14; 5:3-32; 7:11, 12; 11:10-32; Exodus 12:40, 41) The Bible also speaks of time as something that we should use wisely in order to be in line for God’s blessing of an eternity of time​--the prospect of living forever.--Ephesians 5:15-16.



    So in the mean time...


    Last edited by S-N-A-F-U; 09-20-2019 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East of the Beast View Post
    @SharetheHedge......sure it's a matter of faith.I make no bones about that.However, it is just as valid an argument/belief because there is no proof to the contrary either.

    There is no "proof" to the contrary because it is not something that allows itself to be proven or disproven. Anyone can make up anything (like a 4 year old's "imaginary friend"), set the ground rules in such a way that you can not DISPROVE the existence of the imaginary friend. For example...


    Parent: "Why can't I see your friend?"

    Child: "Because he's invisible."

    Parent: "Why can't I hear him speak like you say you hear him?"

    Child: "Because he won't talk to you unless you believe in him first."

    Parent: "Can he DO something to make me believe in him?"

    Child: He does a lot of things, but he's not going to do something just because you tell him to."


    And on and on. The existence of the child's "friend" is non-falsifiable, but it is INTENTIONALLY non-falsifiable, so skeptics cannot really test it. Does the child's friend have an EQUAL chance of being real, as not real? Of course not, because the whole argument for the friend's existence is highly suspicious and there is no strong reason TO believe in it. That there is no "proof" to contradict the imaginary friend's existence does not mean it ISN'T imaginary. Common sense would tell us that the burden of proof would be on the CHILD to prove the friend DOES exist, not on a parent to prove the friend DOESN'T.


    So too the argument that thought, emotions, and self-awareness can exist apart from the physical brain. It MAY be true, but it does NOT have an EQUAL chance of being true. It requires FAITH in something that is untestable.
    Last edited by SharetheHedge; 09-20-2019 at 05:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharetheHedge View Post
    It is NOT just as valid an argument because we KNOW, physiologically, that thoughts and emotions originate in the brain - thoughts and emotions that constitute our consciousness. In fact, this is the PURPOSE of the brain. Your position has the burden of proof - that consciousness can exist apart from that physical organ. Your position cannot be disproven only because it is unfalsifiable...

    Unfalsifiability

    (also known as: untestability)

    Description: Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons.
    Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.
    do you love your mother?...........prove it


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    Ponder? Think about something carefully or seriously. No, never have. Mostly because there is zero data to consider. I'm alive and there is no data to consider about what was in the herebefore or will be in the hereafter.

    The reports from those who have "died" and returned are nonsense and are amazingly culture conforming. Christians fantasize their heaven and Hindus fantasize reincarnation.

    If there were any actual facts or data to consider I probably would but there isn't so I don't.

    When my mother died my children offered condolences and I said, "Everyone is born and everyone dies but not everyone lives. Your grandmother was born incredibly poor and climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro. Focus on living, not dying."

    I can't even get basic data from religious folks. They all talk about a book they read, or at least got the Cliff Notes somewhere, and when I start talking about Catch-22 or Crossing to Safety they sort of get pissed and leave.
    Last edited by patrickt; 09-20-2019 at 05:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
    Ponder? Think about something carefully or seriously. No, never have. Mostly because there is zero data to consider. I'm alive and there is no data to consider about what was in the herebefore or will be in the hereafter.

    The reports from those who have "died" and returned are nonsense and are amazingly culture conforming. Christians fantasize their heaven and Hindus fantasize reincarnation.

    If there were any actual facts or data to consider I probably would but there isn't so I don't.

    When my mother died my children offered condolences and I said, "Everyone is born and everyone dies but not everyone lives. Your grandmother was born incredibly poor and climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro. Focus on living, not dying."

    I can't even get basic data from religious folks. They all talk about a book they read, or at least got the Cliff Notes somewhere, and when I start talking about Catch-22 or Crossing to Safety they sort of get pissed and leave.
    what animates you....what makes you a conscious self aware being...forget religious beliefs,if you've never contemplated your existence you're just intellectually stunted. imo


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