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Thread: Evidence from many fields (archeology to zoology) points to veracity of bible

  1. #11
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    First off I find it interesting that people that don't believe in the bible/God have to argue with people that do. Put 2 people in a room & the odds are that each will have many beliefs that the other person doesn't have. Just like I believe that it's common sense to protect yourself & to save money for the future. Many people believe that the police will protect you & they that will somehow be doing just fine later in life without saving a dime. We discuss those issues here but in real life I never talk about that stuff to people unless they ask. Does being on line draw out people to argue about this stuff? I think it does.

    As for the bible. I found it interesting about the parting of the Red Sea. Duh, that must be bullshit right? Yet a while back they found that one of the islands over there blew up & that as a result of the explosion the Red Sea probably did empty a channel afterward & people probably could have walked across it. I found that interesting. God or nature or maybe both? I mean what are the odds of that happening at just that time as a natural occurrence? Just something to think about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsqtr View Post
    I have a question. Why do you care if the Bible is accurate or not?

    I mean, what difference, at this point, does it make?

    I have another question. If you care, then ask yourself, is your relationship with God, or is it with the Bible? 'Cause I mean, anyone who thinks God speaks English is a little nutty, all things considered.

    My understanding and experience of Christianity is this: you get to have a real-time direct and personal relationship with your lord and savior. Nothing else matters. The words are useful insofar as they get someone into the experience, and after that they have no further value. Because the experience speaks for itself oh, once having had it you understand what "the truth" is, and no amount of verbiage is going to change your experience.

    Words are a wholly inadequate method for the communication of "truth". Because what happens is, people who haven't had the experience, begin to seek meaning in the words themselves. and that is probably a Surefire way to prevent yourself from ever having a meaningful experience.

    The truth is in the experience, and to the extent the words match the experience, it's there too. But trying to communicate truth through words, to someone who's never had the experience, probably has a slightly smaller chance of success than a crapshoot.

    IMO.
    it may not matter to you because you 'get it'. But many others don't and the first thing they say is that the bible is not accurate. God says his word is accurate. He says he has protected it and it has not been changed. IF the enemy can put doubt in the minds of believers and potential believers alike then soon we can get to the point of doubting the life, death, resurrection and promises of Christ. It is important.

    Look what satan has done to the holocaust. Look how many people doubt that. Now we're doubting America's founding and her value to the world. THIS is why the veracity of the bible is important.
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  3. #13
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    To me, the Bible is a book of inspiration, of history, of philosophy, of guidance, and truth. A book inspired by God under many names over many centuries and comes to us from many parts of the world. Modern progressive thinking tells us there is much that is not true, or outright wrong, that creates doubt with the Bible. However, to me, it is this modern progressive thinking that is destroying our moral religious faith.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calypso Jones View Post
    it may not matter to you because you 'get it'. But many others don't and the first thing they say is that the bible is not accurate. God says his word is accurate. He says he has protected it and it has not been changed. IF the enemy can put doubt in the minds of believers and potential believers alike then soon we can get to the point of doubting the life, death, resurrection and promises of Christ. It is important.

    Look what satan has done to the holocaust. Look how many people doubt that. Now we're doubting America's founding and her value to the world. THIS is why the veracity of the bible is important.
    I never said the Bible is not accurate. (Well, at least not in "this" thread). I have always said in these threads that the Bible is "substantially" accurate, and that it is amazing in and of itself that this could be true for a 3000 year old document.

    What I asked was "why do you care". I asked what difference it makes.

    See 'cause, I don't care. It makes absolutely no difference to me or my religious beliefs, whether the Bible is literally accurate or not.

    I have been a practicing Christian since age 16. It "still" makes no difference to me whether the Bible is accurate or not, because I don't place my faith in words. I place my faith in the EXPERIENCE, which is the truth. There is no other truth. There is no other knowable Truth, other than that which you experience. If the words happen to match your experience, then you can say fine, the words are accurate.

    But if the words don't match your experience, then who are you going to believe, your own lying eyes, or a few words on a piece of paper?

    I am perfectly capable of Discerning the truth. I am not yet that old and foggy, to where that would be a problem. Frankly, there are some aspects of my Christian experience that do not dovetail perfectly with the words in the Bible. But, I don't care, because I believe in evolution, and I believe that people today are not quite the same as they were three thousand years ago (meaning our experiences of God may have been considerably different) - and I also believe that God speaks to us in real time (He hasn't stopped), and this is also part of our evolutionary process.

    None of what I just said contradicts anything in the Bible. NONE of it. However I'm not using the dogmatic vocabulary, which throws some people off. I don't use it because I don't believe in it, for the same reason I don't believe in PC.

    I believe in direct experience. I don't believe in middlemen (like the Pope, who is still supposed to be infallible, but obviously isn't). I had a great discussion with the minister in my mom's old church, and we were talking about value systems, and I told him I didn't need his cuz I had my own (and I got mine in the School of Hard Knocks, without anyone's help). He looked at me skeptically, until I explained what I meant. I dislike dogma very much, and I greatly resent people trying to push values down my throat. Whether those values come from the Bible or anywhere else, is largely irrelevant. What I know for sure, is what I have experienced myself. And in this case, it just so happens that my values dovetail quite nicely with those that are expressed in the Bible. As a matter of fact, it's just about a perfect fit. But not for all the reasons you might think - for instance, I once saw a murder up close and personal, like blood spurting in my eye kind of thing - I experienced that, so I "know" why murder is "bad". I don't need the Bible to tell me that murder is bad, I already know.

    By the way - if you're following my reasoning, you will realize there is both evidence and precedent for an evolution in God's relationship with human beings. The Old Testament was all about "law", in excruciating and quite nauseating detail - and I mean, I don't buy into ANY of the crap about marrying your dead brother's wife and stuff like that. "The law has changed", yes?

    Oh yeah baby, I "get it". Better than most. We need to keep our finger on the pulse, otherwise "the law will change" right under our noses, and we won't even notice it. Jesus Christ will come again, and we won't notice that either.

    Real time, is where it's at.
    Last edited by nonsqtr; 08-26-2019 at 02:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by teeceetx View Post
    The Bible is a collection of stories, some far more ancient than it credits. But the stories themselves, I believe to be true, regardless of the timeline errors. Our true history is likely far different than we thought, yet far more familiar than we my like to admit.
    @teeceetx actually the idea that the Bible is just a compilation of stories was abandoned in the 1970's.

    The current approach is that the Bible is a linear narrative from Genesis to Revelation, its a unified literary work, it has a beginning and a middle and an end, the main character is God, the conflict is sin, the theme is redemption.

    Its a chronological story from Genesis to Esther (the Christian Bible), the general lesson is that if you do what God says all will go well, if you don't then it wont. Then you hit Job where the question is why do bad things happen to good people. Then we step back in time and drop down into the life of David with the Psalms which is largely a study of the heart of David. Followed by a study into the heart of Solomon with Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, and continuing with the prophets (all in the time of the Kings) for a different perspective on that time. At the end is Malachi, ending with the proclamation that Elijah will come before the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord. End of the Hebrew scriptures.

    Then Matthew where the Messiah enters the story, with Mark Luke John telling the story of the Messiah. Then Acts which tells of the spread of the church into the world. Then the Letters which further tells of the spread of Christianity and the ups and downs of various churches, and explains redemption. Finally Revelation which is the end of the story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWF View Post
    "Methinks he doth protest too much."

    Ignorance is not shameful. One can correct the condition. But stupidity is the rejection of knowledge. Jesus Christ Wrote the Bible. His pen was the people He used.

    Yes, ask questions. But ask them to the source. Ask God for understanding. The truth is sincerely given to those who sincerely seek it.
    Are you listening to yourself?

    If the people were the pen, then you have an imperfect pen.

    You're familiar with the statistics of the human Spectrum?

    4% of us are psychopaths. 3% are schizophrenic, which means they occasionally hallucinate. 11% of the human spectrum has a clinical mental illness of some kind.

    So now, you're posing two equations:

    "me and God"

    - and -

    "you and me and God"

    And you're in effect suggesting that the communication between you and me is useless, and it's only the communication between me and God that matters.

    So what kind of communication do you think a hallucinating schizophrenic is going to have with his God?

    On the other hand, if you include the rest of humanity in the Spectrum, you win, because it's a numbers game and the odds are on your side. But you depend on the numbers, that is to say, you need "enough" interaction. If you only interact with the 4% then you only get the Machiavellian viewpoint.

    I have an advanced degree in comparative religion. Not because I am necessarily "seeking" (I have what I need, thank you) - but because there are valuable lessons to be learned from the other viewpoints. What I have learned myself, from this study, is that the viewpoints are similar in many regards, it's mainly the vocabulary that differs.

    Of course this is not always true, and there are also plenty of people who claim to be religious who surely don't behave that way.

    My general rule is, if it came from a human being (and ALL of the words in the Bible came from human beings), then it's a very good idea to bounce it off other human beings, before I start drawing conclusions.

    I'm also a student of History. I am keenly aware of how easily religion can be corrupted. "Belief" is a dangerous thing, and my experience has been that it is good to know explicitly and in detail, where one is placing one's faith.

    Few human beings are mindful at this level.

    I'm not saying you said anything wrong, and I'm not disagreeing either. I'm simply posing a thought experiment to show that the words written on pieces of paper are not the same as what you're calling "the Truth".
    Last edited by nonsqtr; 08-26-2019 at 02:52 AM.

  7. #17
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    Of course the pen is imperfect. People pens or mechanical. None are perfect.

    The point is: Who was the Author? Christ was. The Bible is God's Word (Christ) in Print.

    I know full well that what I post is not going to convince anyone of anything. Like you I became interested in the Bible at an early age and history naturally follows from it.

    "Belief" is a dangerous thing, and my experience has been that it is good to know explicitly and in detail, where one is placing one's faith." Then you say, "Few human beings are mindful at this level." Two questions: One. Are you listening to yourself? Two. If your first statement is true why would you, or anyone for that matter, put their "faith" in a theory based on conjecture and manipulated evidence as being true? (evolution)

    Yet you are mindful at a very high level. This makes you exceptional. Similar to Obama. On steroids.

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