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Thread: Federal Lifetime Gun Bans of Non-Violent Felons are Illegal, Argues FPC

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karl View Post
    Look up the "Relics" Loophole..

    Relics covers Powder muskets, Old Cap n Ball revolvers..

    And "note" ANY FIREARM "manufactured" in Country that "No-Longer" EXISTS..

    Soviet Union made lots of neat stuff and NO LONGER "Exists"..

    I know what a “curio and relic” license is good for. I also know they are still firearms. You better look it up, as I am not a “felon” in possession.
    The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was time. JUSTICE GEORGE SUTHERLAND (1938)

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    @Karl



    curios and relics, having only to be at least 50 years old, are much more modern, and are still used in crimes. In Dallas last year, for example, a rifle classified as a curio and relic was used to kill five police officers.
    Despite this, transfers of curio and relics are not subject to the NCIS background check. The ATF does say that “it is unlawful for any person to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.”
    So even though these guns can be - and are - used to commit crimes, the government isn’t regulating them as such. They’re just counting on the honesty of the people in possession of them.
    The ATF’s full list of curios and relics is embedded below.
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    Image by Trekphiler via Wikimedia Commons and is licensed under CC BY 2.5
    The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was time. JUSTICE GEORGE SUTHERLAND (1938)

  4. #13
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    Solution is thus.

    Tie Voter Eligibility to Firearms bans. If someone is a convicted felon who cannot own guns...he cannot VOTE.

    Yeah I know...dream on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dummy View Post
    @Karl



    curios and relics, having only to be at least 50 years old, are much more modern, and are still used in crimes. In Dallas last year, for example, a rifle classified as a curio and relic was used to kill five police officers.
    Despite this, transfers of curio and relics are not subject to the NCIS background check. The ATF does say that “it is unlawful for any person to transfer a firearm to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is a felon or is within any other category of person prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.”
    So even though these guns can be - and are - used to commit crimes, the government isn’t regulating them as such. They’re just counting on the honesty of the people in possession of them.
    The ATF’s full list of curios and relics is embedded below.
    DOCUMENT
    TEXT

    Zoom













    LoadingLoading




    LoadingLoading








    Page 1 of 56







    Image by Trekphiler via Wikimedia Commons and is licensed under CC BY 2.5

    So what @Big Dummy .....

    Soviet Stamped is RELICS ..

    I would even "Plead" My Case at FULL TRIAL infront of the COURT..

    Then again the worst I ever done was Shot a guy "breaking" into my own car with a 22 and "Charges Dropped" eventually

    So thats my HISTORY of "Violence"

    Cops did keep my gun though but when ya "FREE" happy aint in jail
    ..

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    The Law Office of John Pierce, Esq.
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    ← Can I purchase a firearm from a dealer if I have a misdemeanor drug possession arrest or conviction?

    Non-violent felons in Virginia may now own certain black powder firearms

    Posted on September 28, 2017 by John Pierce

    Last year I wrote an articleadmonishing those with felony convictions to not believe the oft-repeated rumor that felons can still possess, and hunt with, black powder firearms.


    In that article I noted that, while ‘antique firearms’ are not prohibited to felons under federal law, Virginia state law still (at that time) prohibited it.


    However, during the 2017 legislative session, Senator Mark Obenshain introduced a bill to correct that discrepancy (SB1533). His bill was subsequently signed into law by the governor and, with little fanfare, went into effect on July 1, 2017.


    With the passage of this bill, 18.2-308.2, which is the code section denying convicted felons the right to possess firearms generally, now has a subsection C2 which reads:

    C2. The prohibitions of subsection A shall not prohibit any person other than a person convicted of an act of violence as defined in 19.2-297.1 or a violent felony as defined in subsection C of 17.1-805 from possessing, transporting, or carrying (i) antique firearms or (ii) black powder in a quantity not exceeding five pounds if it is intended to be used solely for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique firearms. For the purposes of this subsection, “antique firearms” means any firearm described in subdivision 3 of the definition of “antique firearm” in subsection G of 18.2-308.2:2.
    So let’s break this down. Does this mean that any felon can own any black powder firearm? The answer is a resounding No!

    There are two limitations on the new law that felons will still need to review carefully before rushing out to buy a black powder firearm:

    Limitation #1) Are they truly considered a non-violent felon under the new law?


    In the new subsection we are given two code references to define ‘act of violence’ and ‘violent’ felony.

    Under 19.2-297.1, an “act of violence” means any one of the following crimes (whether convicted as a principal, accessory before the fact, or in conspiracy):

    a. First and second degree murder and voluntary manslaughter under Article 1 ( 18.2-30 et seq.);

    b. Mob-related felonies under Article 2 ( 18.2-38 et seq.);

    c. Any kidnapping or abduction felony under Article 3 ( 18.2-47 et seq.);

    d. Any malicious felonious assault or malicious bodily wounding under Article 4 ( 18.2-51 et seq.);

    e. Robbery under 18.2-58 and carjacking under 18.2-58.1;

    f. Except as otherwise provided in 18.2-67.5:2 or 18.2-67.5:3, criminal sexual assault punishable as a felony under Article 7 ( 18.2-61 et seq.); or

    g. Arson in violation of 18.2-77 when the structure burned was occupied or a Class 3 felony violation of 18.2-79.
    Under 17.1-805, a ‘violent felony’ encompasses an incredible number of criminal offenses. I will not enumerate them each individually here because it would render the article too long but I will point out that the list does contain offenses which a reasonable person might not consider to be violent, such as ‘damaging a railroad signal’.

    If you are a convicted felon who has not had their firearm rights restored and are planning to purchase an ‘antique firearm’ based upon this new legislation, I would urge you, in the strongest possible terms, to review your convictions against this list before doing so.

    Limitation #2) Does a particular black powder firearm meet the definition of ‘antique firearm’?


    We see in the statutory language above that the definition of ‘antique firearm’ can be found in subsection G of 18.2-308.2:2 which states that:

    “Antique firearm” means:

    1. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898;

    2. Any replica of any firearm described in subdivision 1 of this definition if such replica (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;

    3. Any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subdivision, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon that incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm that is converted into a muzzle-loading weapon, or any muzzle-loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech-block, or any combination thereof; or

    4. Any curio or relic as defined in this subsection.


    “Curios or relics” means firearms that are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

    1. Firearms that were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, which use rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade, but not including replicas thereof;

    2. Firearms that are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

    3. Any other firearms that derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collectors’ items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.
    The section I have underlined above is of particular concern to me as an attorney. There are a number of black powder firearms (mostly revolvers) which have commercially available drop-in conversion kits that allow them to fire fixed ammunition. Under this definition, once such a conversion kit becomes commercially available for a given firearm it would no longer meet the definition and would still be barred from ownership and use.

    Once again, I would caution those who are planning to take advantage of this change in the law to shop carefully when selecting their ‘antique firearm’.

    Conclusion


    This is a good bill that goes a long way toward correcting the discrepancy that previously existed between Virginia and federal law on this topic. However, it requires those wishing to avail themselves of its benefits to do a significant amount of research beforehand. Failure to do so could place said person in danger of a charge of ‘felon in possession’.

    I will end by noting that, if you have a non-violent felony, I would encourage you to contact me for a free consultation to discuss petitioning the court for a full restoration of your firearm rights.






    Do you live in Virginia? I think not.
    The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was time. JUSTICE GEORGE SUTHERLAND (1938)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillofbeans View Post
    https://www.firearmspolicy.org/
    Thank you @Hillofbeans .

    After reading about them through your link, I have determined they are ok and not a gun grabbing "coalition" of anti's.



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    Will a 1959-1964 Colt AR15/SP1 make the C&R list ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gator Monroe View Post
    Will a 1959-1964 Colt AR15/SP1 make the C&R list ?
    It should, they are over 50 years old.
    The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished liberty is that it was lost because its possessors failed to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was time. JUSTICE GEORGE SUTHERLAND (1938)

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