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Thread: Seems mars has groundwater and enough oxygen after all....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedgin View Post
    Still going to have to warm it up, if Earth live is to take hold.
    I have ALWAYS thought there was plenty of oxygen bound up in the Martian surface. (The reason it is RED, is because it is "RUSTED." Rust, requires Oxygen...)

    Have you read the Martian Series by Kim Stanley Robinson?

    If not, I strongly suggest you check it out. It is basically a sci fi series about the exploration, colonization and terraforming of Mars. ALL kinds of other parts to the story: politics, science, love, betrayal, etc.)

    The books are:

    --Red Mars
    --Green Mars
    --Blue Mars
    Yes, but we can terraform it. we can liberate oxygen, water vapour from the rocks. And water from the deep aquifers we now know exist. we can use bacteria spread all over the surface. Freeman dyson outlined it all years ago, his plan is perfectly dooable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBoomer+ View Post
    Yes, but we can terraform it. we can liberate oxygen, water vapour from the rocks. And water from the deep aquifers we now know exist. we can use bacteria spread all over the surface. Freeman dyson outlined it all years ago, his plan is perfectly dooable.
    Exactly.

    (SPOILER: In the books, they just start drilling "Vent Holes" deep down into ground. While Mars has no tectonic activity, it is still HOT down there, so, the heat was vented out. Then, they placed huge mirrors in the La Grange Spots for Mars, in order to direct more sunlight. Along with bacteria, etc.)
    Al Swearengen: What's your partner so mad about all the time?
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    https://space.stackexchange.com/ques...for-the-wearer

    Space suits provide.....limited protection from particle radiation and gamma and x ray. If particles have enough energy they simply pass through the space suit.
    It seems that Mars will never be a place where people can spend a lot of time outdoors because their space suits will not provide complete protection from radiation. There won't be much to see outdoors anyway with no native plants, trees, forests, streams, lakes, oceans etc.. Their food supply will be very limited regarding the healthiest foods like fresh fruit, fresh vegetables and whole grains. Their DNA will be damaged by radiation and they won't have the kinds of foods needed to help them maintain good health. If they are super smart, as has been suggested, they should know that they can't sustain good health on vitamin pills alone. Lots of healthy whole foods are needed to maintain good health.

    Will they feel better by remembering that the first colonies in the new world had their hardships too? Will they be willing to put their health and lives at risk for the possibility of making money?
    Anyway, what good is having lots of money on Mars? If they do make lots of money, which is somewhat doubtful, they would need to come back to earth in order to enjoy spending it. Earth is where they will hope to retire in luxury, if they make any money and if they still have their health.
    Last edited by Fall River; 11-07-2018 at 04:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fall River View Post
    https://space.stackexchange.com/ques...for-the-wearer



    It seems that Mars will never be a place where people can spend a lot of time outdoors because their space suits will not provide complete protection from radiation. There won't be much to see outdoors anyway with no native plants, trees, forests, streams, lakes, oceans etc.. Their food supply will be very limited regarding the healthiest foods like fresh fruit, fresh vegetables and whole grains. Their DNA will be damaged by radiation and they won't have the kinds of foods needed to help them maintain good health. If they are super smart, as has been suggested, they should know that they can't sustain good health on vitamin pills alone. Lots of healthy whole foods are needed to maintain good health.

    Will they feel better by remembering that the first colonies in the new world had their hardships too? Will they be willing to put their health and lives at risk for the possibility of making money?
    Anyway, what good is having lots of money on Mars? If they do make lots of money, which is somewhat doubtful, they would need to come back to earth in order to enjoy spending it. Earth is where they will hope to retire in luxury, if they make any money and if they still have their health.

    But the point is it only medium term. In the long term we can terraform it.

    All the above arguments coudl equally have been applied tothe New World in 1570.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBoomer+ View Post
    But the point is it only medium term. In the long term we can terraform it.

    All the above arguments coudl equally have been applied tothe New World in 1570.
    Just the traveling time alone, to get to Mars, puts passengers at great risk. https://www.universetoday.com/14841/...o-get-to-mars/

    Space is a hostile place, and the radiation [from] interplanetary space [travel] might pose a long term health risk to human astronauts. The background cosmic rays inflict a constant barrage of cancer-inducing radiation, but there's a bigger risk of massive solar storms, which could kill unprotected astronauts in a few hours.
    And that risk doesn't even include the amount of time they would be spending on Mars itself. Then there is the long trip back to earth. How many days would that be altogether? One or two years? That's a lot of exposure to radiation. Between the radiation and the kind of food they will be eating, I can't imagine how they would not already be sick by the time the arrive on Mars.
    It may likely be a one-way trip:

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world...ket/index.html
    A one-way ticket to Mars, apply now
    Last edited by Fall River; 11-08-2018 at 11:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fall River View Post
    Just the traveling time alone, to get to Mars, puts passengers at great risk. https://www.universetoday.com/14841/...o-get-to-mars/



    And that risk doesn't even include the amount of time they would be spending on Mars itself. Then there is the long trip back to earth. How many days would that be altogether? One or two years? That's a lot of exposure to radiation. Between the radiation and the kind of food they will be eating, I can't imagine how they would not already be sick by the time the arrive on Mars.
    It may likely be a one-way trip:

    https://www.cnn.com/2013/04/22/world...ket/index.html
    well, ive tackled this before, in a long reply elsewhere. Its extremely dangerous to declare somethign 'impossible'

    First of all, your point is only valid if human knowledge stops right now, and we learn nothing more about anything from this moment in time onwards. Otherwise, as history as shown many many times , its impossible to predict what new scenece and technologies will be discovered in the future that will make your statement invalid. Even the premise "We cant travel faster than light " ive demonstrated is a dangerously unprovable assumption based even on current know how. the fact is the Standard Model is full of holes, time and entropy may be little more than local phenomena nd an illusion, which makes all the Einstien Field Equations wrong. I made an extensive post about this.

    The first few missions to mars may well be one way trips, but then so were the first expeditions to the New World, and many who went forth between 1570- 1670 never returned back from whence they set off, and only death awaited them for thier troubles and courage.

    Such is the nature of exploration and colonisation. But there will always be brave adventurous humans illing to risk it. There is no shortage of volunteers for Mars One .

    NASA is already working on 'suspended animation' or 'statis' chambers for long trips to other planets

    NASA planning 'suspended animation' cryosleep chamber that lets astronauts hibernate whilst travelling to distant worlds - Mirror Online

    Theres also an article here on how NASA is tacking the radiation problem

    How to Protect Astronauts from Space Radiation on Mars | NASA


    One of the spinoffs from nuclear weapons research is a massive knowledge base about radiation and how various materials absorb (High-Z) or appear transparent (Low-Z) to various tpes of radionation fluxes.





    Last edited by BabyBoomer+; 11-08-2018 at 12:18 PM.

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    NASA is working on the radiation problem? I thought you said the effort to colonize Mars would be privately funded, like the effort to build sailing-ships to colonize the new world.

    https://www.technocracy.news/nasa-de...c-exploration/

    NASA Developing 'Suspended Animation' Chamber For Travel To Mars

    TN Note: Your tax dollars at work. Space travel is purely a Technocrat dream. If they can build it, and somebody is willing to fund their projects, they will build it. There doesn't need to be any more reasons given as to why it needs to be built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fall River View Post
    NASA is working on the radiation problem? I thought you said the effort to colonize Mars would be privately funded, like the effort to build sailing-ships to colonize the new world.

    https://www.technocracy.news/nasa-de...c-exploration/
    NASA is still working with the private industry.

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    Only an idiot would want to live on Mars.

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