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Polly Kong
01-29-2013, 06:25 AM
This article (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/01/28/the_gun_industry_wants_to_sell_your_kid_an_ar_15_t he_new_york_times_investigates.html) discusses the fundamental nature of the gun industry as a business. It highlights what I've been saying all along in this gun debate we fortunately are still having in this country (mostly thanks to the president's newfound initiative in staying on this issue): that gun makers are indeed selling their products as toys. Andy Fink, editor of Junior Shooters magazine (!) explains that an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle is, and I quote, "a tool, not any different than a car or a baseball bat". Seriously? Just another recreational play thing?

I mean just look at the ad in the linked article! It's DISGUSTINGLY exploitative! Do you really think this is about something serious like home protection or gun safety? Or is this about a business making money at any social cost? You know the answer. It's as plain as the nose on your face. These deadly weapons are being marketed as toys, and not just to adult men (as per tradition), but even to young children now.

Paperback Writer
01-29-2013, 06:37 AM
No offence but I hardly think Junior Shooter has the influence of Rockstar games. I think children are more influenced by video games like everyone else. Call of Duty--something financed by YOUR military-- has prolly got more children hyped up to shoot people than anything else other than YOUR Hollywood films where you can shoot a million zombies with impunity (also had military advisors).

Let's face it, your government is looking for new soldiers, peace officers, etcetera. To the child from a happy family Junior Shooter prolly has him ready to go murder bambi, whereas the children from a one parent or broken home see Grand Theft and wants to have a different sort of fun. Give any child Call of Duty, give me Call of Duty, and suddenly military life seems quite interesting.

Maybe you yanks should really look at your culture. It seems you have a blind spot to it. You've talked on about guns, but you don't acknowledge what we all see and that is a nation empire building at the point of a gun. Obama is just as bad as anyone else at this. You want children to not have guns, good job. Perhaps, then the president ought lead by example and not kill so many innocent women and children abroad, perhaps he doesn't drag other nations of the Commonwealth into your messes.

That might be nice. No offence but your culture is infecting the rest of the world with violence and that's not just coming from the NRA.

Polly Kong
01-29-2013, 06:50 AM
I'm for a comprehensive approach to the issue of gun violence, and yeah that does include addressing violence in our media. I do believe that there should be, for example, a game ratings system (like the ESRB has) that's enforced by law rather than on a voluntary basis. I don't think M-rated games or first-person shooters generally should be sold to children. That should be illegal. Voluntary enforcement doesn't work.

However, I'll add that addressing culture issues is addressing the motive aspect, whereas reducing the flow of guns addresses opportunity. The latter is more basic and important.

countryboy
01-29-2013, 07:02 AM
It is a good thing to teach children about guns, and the safe handling of them. Keep the kiddies off the prozac and ritalin, and supervise their gaming and computer and media, and, and, and.....they'll be fine. But libs will never do those things. They just want to take the guns. Never let a good crisis go to waste, eh? To hell with addressing the actual problems.

Guns have always been around, mass shootings by idiots hopped up on psych meds have not. As kids, we knew not to get into Dad's unlocked gun cabinet. What's changed?

Paperback Writer
01-29-2013, 07:17 AM
However, I'll add that addressing culture issues is addressing the motive aspect, whereas reducing the flow of guns addresses opportunity. The latter is more basic and important.

How's that? You realise that our murder rate is sky high and we have ridiculous gun control, yeh? We've now got blokes cutting people up with samurai swords. Samurai Swords? As in Final Fantasy and other Japanese video games that are marketed to us not by them but by your lot. We were a rather peaceful, civilised nation before your culture started bring your movies, music, and games here.

If you don't have guns you'll do what we do, guaranteed. Three hundred knifings a week in London. That's chav culture wot comes from your rap culture. People are afraid to say "fuck off" these days or you're get your throat slit by the wrong bloke.

I think you don't want to address that your nation is just bloody violent and spreads the violence elsewhere, Polly. I'm sorry to say that, but it is true. You want to remove the guns from your land, I want to remove your culture from ours.

Guns are not your problem, you are the problem.

kk8
01-29-2013, 07:37 AM
This article (http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/01/28/the_gun_industry_wants_to_sell_your_kid_an_ar_15_t he_new_york_times_investigates.html) discusses the fundamental nature of the gun industry as a business. It highlights what I've been saying all along in this gun debate we fortunately are still having in this country (mostly thanks to the president's newfound initiative in staying on this issue): that gun makers are indeed selling their products as toys. Andy Fink, editor of Junior Shooters magazine (!) explains that an AR-15 semi-automatic assault rifle is, and I quote, "a tool, not any different than a car or a baseball bat". Seriously? Just another recreational play thing?

I mean just look at the ad in the linked article! It's DISGUSTINGLY exploitative! Do you really think this is about something serious like home protection or gun safety? Or is this about a business making money at any social cost? You know the answer. It's as plain as the nose on your face. These deadly weapons are being marketed as toys, and not just to adult men (as per tradition), but even to young children now.


(mostly thanks to the president's newfound initiative in staying on this issue)

God, I hope he does! Now people will finally see what Obama is all about, and this will be the end of his reign.

Obama logic....Go after gun manufacturers! Unbelievable. As if they are criminals. Grow the fuck up.

kk8
01-29-2013, 07:39 AM
I'm for a comprehensive approach to the issue of gun violence, and yeah that does include addressing violence in our media. I do believe that there should be, for example, a game ratings system (like the ESRB has) that's enforced by law rather than on a voluntary basis. I don't think M-rated games or first-person shooters generally should be sold to children. That should be illegal. Voluntary enforcement doesn't work.

However, I'll add that addressing culture issues is addressing the motive aspect, whereas reducing the flow of guns addresses opportunity. The latter is more basic and important.

I have an idea! How about the parents actually pay attention to what their kids are playing? Ya think?

Trinnity
01-29-2013, 09:28 AM
I'm for a comprehensive approach to the issue of gun violence, and yeah that does include addressing violence in our media. I do believe that there should be, for example, a game ratings system (like the ESRB has) that's enforced by law rather than on a voluntary basis. I don't think M-rated games or first-person shooters generally should be sold to children. That should be illegal. Voluntary enforcement doesn't work.

However, I'll add that addressing culture issues is addressing the motive aspect, whereas reducing the flow of guns addresses opportunity. The latter is more basic and important.Reducing the flow of guns to who? The law abiding citizens or gangs and criminals?

You won't get anywhere with the media. The liberals dominate the media so I'm not sure what you can do. And how about Hollywood? No entity glorifies gun violence like Hollywood; the only one that comes close is hip hop music.

Here's the ad...

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/xx_factor/2013/Gun%20ad.jpg.CROP.article250-medium.jpg

As for this ad, it's a style that is well liked and that's putting it mildly. The Colt 1911 .45. This version is a .22.

A model 1911 in a .45 Colt, Ruger, Browning, Taurus, Strayer, etc.; many companies make them - is about $800 and up. They're not cheap.

Marketing to kids? Sure. Families who hunt and target shoot - the kids already want what Dad has. Families who don't shoot and hunt; the kids won't likely see this ad or EVEN CARE. They want video games.

@Polly Kong (http://thepoliticsforums.com/member.php?u=25) Do you know the history of the model 1911?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

Polly Kong
01-29-2013, 12:33 PM
Trinnity wrote:
Reducing the flow of guns to who? The law abiding citizens or gangs and criminals?

There is no "to who" in my book. Increasing the flow of guns for anyone increases it for everyone.

Trinnity
01-29-2013, 12:47 PM
Law-abiding Americans are not gonna allow the govt to punish them in a broad brush attempt to get at the flow of guns. Fast and Furious was a criminal offense and Holder and Obama should both be in prison for it. That's enough reason right there to not trust the govt or let it have ever more control.

Guest
01-29-2013, 12:58 PM
There is no "to who" in my book. Increasing the flow of guns for anyone increases it for everyone.

Why hasn't Switzerland or Sweden errupted in gunfire then?

The XL
01-29-2013, 01:02 PM
We need to stop blaming culture, video games, guns, Ponies, and whatever the fuck else for the crimes an individual commits.

Guest
01-29-2013, 01:05 PM
We need to stop blaming culture, video games, guns, Ponies, and whatever the fuck else for the crimes an individual commits.

Oh, noooo! Don't you see? We must blame it on guns because the government tells us that it is the guns fault and not the person behind the trigger. If we had to believe that people kill people we might ask ourselves the tough questions we don't want to answer about our policies that have created a nation of depressed and angry people with a distinct lack of love and empathy.

Progressives don't want to talk about that because they would have to own up to their failed policies, so...let's blame guns even though they can't shoot themselves.

The XL
01-29-2013, 01:10 PM
Lol, it's so clear this gun control shit is all being manufactured by government and media. The gun to gun death ratio is still ridiculously small. I don't care how "educated" liberals claim to be, at the end of the day, they're still stupid as fuck, and are easily brainwashed and controlled.

Guest
01-29-2013, 01:24 PM
Lol, it's so clear this gun control shit is all being manufactured by government and media. The gun to gun death ratio is still ridiculously small. I don't care how "educated" liberals claim to be, at the end of the day, they're still stupid as fuck, and are easily brainwashed and controlled.

Binks, if we weren't already besties who watch UFC together, I would ask you if we could watch UFC together.

The XL
01-29-2013, 01:27 PM
Binks, if we weren't already besties who watch UFC together, I would ask you if we could watch UFC together.

Word.

Guest
01-29-2013, 01:45 PM
Hey, Binks...

Who do you think will win this Saturday Aldo or Edgar? What about Overeem vs Bigfoot?

The XL
01-29-2013, 01:54 PM
Hey, Binks...

Who do you think will win this Saturday Aldo or Edgar? What about Overeem vs Bigfoot?

Edgar and Aldo is a tossup. Aldo can KO him early, but if it goes past the 2nd round, I think Edgar will wear him out. I think Overeem will knock Bigfoot out.

Guest
01-29-2013, 01:55 PM
Edgar and Aldo is a tossup. Aldo can KO him early, but if it goes past the 2nd round, I think Edgar will wear him out. I think Overeem will knock Bigfoot out.

Hmm, I'll take your word on it since you picked em last time.

Sinestro/Green Arrow
01-29-2013, 01:56 PM
God, I hope he does! Now people will finally see what Obama is all about, and this will be the end of his reign.

Uhm...it already is? This is his last term.

Sinestro/Green Arrow
01-29-2013, 02:00 PM
So, I've decided to rewrite the "Cultures of Death" article I wrote for my school newspaper and post it here. A day or two, tops. Hell, I might even be able to finish it tonight at work.

Polly Kong
01-29-2013, 02:04 PM
The XL wrote:
We need to stop blaming culture, video games, guns, Ponies, and whatever the fuck else for the crimes an individual commits.


Lol, it's so clear this gun control shit is all being manufactured by government and media. The gun to gun death ratio is still ridiculously small. I don't care how "educated" liberals claim to be, at the end of the day, they're still stupid as fuck, and are easily brainwashed and controlled.

So rather than just complaining about my posts and claiming that I'm "stupid as fuck", do you actually have an alternative to propose in terms of addressing gun violence?

P.S. There's nothing funny about life-and-death subjects like this. Why are you laughing?

Sinestro/Green Arrow
01-29-2013, 02:19 PM
So rather than just complaining about my posts and claiming that I'm "stupid as fuck", do you actually have an alternative to propose in terms of addressing gun violence?

I absolutely do, as a fellow liberal. As has been pointed out, guns are not the problem. That's why Switzerland, despite it being mandated by law that every citizen carries and knows how to use a gun, has not destroyed itself in gun violence and actually has, if I remember correctly, one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world.

Guns are not the problem. Even violent media isn't necessarily the problem. The problem is our culture. We've stopped valuing life. We've stopped teaching our kids that all life, all humans, are valuable. We've given ourselves justification for ending certain types of life.

But mostly, we haven't truly given our poor the help they need. That's where the bulk of our violent crime comes from, lower income individuals and the mentally ill, two of the most uncared for groups in our nation. Our welfare system is designed to keep people stuck in their situation, rather than help them achieve greater social and economic mobility as it should. By keeping them where we are, we encourage violent behavior. If you can't afford to pay the bills, what do you do? You steal. If you can't afford to feed your family, what do you do? You steal.

Crime leads to crime. I'll tell you the same thing I tell abortion opponents: abortion/guns are just the tool. Get rid of the tool, they'll find another. It's no different than treating the symptoms while ignoring the disease. Don't look at what they use to commit their violent crimes - look at why they commit their violent crimes.

Eliminate the why, and you eliminate the what without ever paying the what any attention.

The XL
01-29-2013, 02:21 PM
So rather than just complaining about my posts and claiming that I'm "stupid as fuck", do you actually have an alternative to propose in terms of addressing gun violence?

P.S. There's nothing funny about life-and-death subjects like this. Why are you laughing?

What is the gun to gun death ratio in the United States? Is it big or small? I'd like an answer.

Polly Kong
01-29-2013, 02:27 PM
By world standards, it's huge. We have nearly 12,000 gun murders a year in this country. That's more than any other First World country, and I mean by a lot. There have been some 1,300 more just since last month's massacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school. And that's just murders. That's not counting gun deaths from accidents, suicides, or gun-related injuries.

Okay now stop avoiding my question, which was far more pertinent. Your inquiry frankly strikes me as nothing more than an attempt to trivialize the issue at hand, and with it the worth of human life. But hey, you're someone who finds this subject hilarious, so what can I expect?

Guest
01-29-2013, 02:41 PM
So rather than just complaining about my posts and claiming that I'm "stupid as fuck", do you actually have an alternative to propose in terms of addressing gun violence?

I do and it is based off of reality and observations made over 7 years of ghetto living and 4 years of criminal defense of gun cases and that is...ready?

Promote two parent families, shame the "baby mama" culture, end the drug war, and create an environment where kids grow up feeling loved.



P.S. There's nothing funny about life-and-death subjects like this. Why are you laughing?

Who is laughing? I'm not. I have never thought having black market guns in my face while someone was robbing me was funny at all. I have never thought multi-generational poverty of body and spirit to be funny. I don't think that having kids grow up fatherless and feeling angry is funny. I don't think that kids watching their mama go to the clubs while "they grammamas" take care of them and their father visit occasionally is a laughing matter.

Kids want attention. They want the attention and love of both their parents. You want to fix the culture of violence? Start with the family unit and protect it.

Guest
01-29-2013, 02:46 PM
By world standards, it's huge. We have nearly 12,000 gun murders a year in this country.

...out of a population that if we include illegals is 360 million, so you're talking about less than a percent of a percent. That's tragic, but less proportional violence than the UK has with their gun bans.



That's more than any other First World country, and I mean by a lot. There have been some 1,300 more just since last month's massacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school. And that's just murders. That's not counting gun deaths from accidents, suicides, or gun-related injuries.

Name a country of our size and look at their murder rate. Also with 270 MILLION guns and 12,000 gun deaths you're still looking at less than a percent of guns that have been the cause of death.

Why does that less than a percent not register? Why is that a bigger problem than auto accidents in your head?




Okay now stop avoiding my question, which was far more pertinent. Your inquiry frankly strikes me as nothing more than an attempt to trivialize the issue at hand, and with it the worth of human life. But hey, you're someone who finds this subject hilarious, so what can I expect?

You are not the only person who cares about life and you are trivializing our response. The president whom you support in this measure has killed 1251 Pakastanis to kill just 2 terrorists. He is violent. He killed more than Holmes and Lanza but he has the line of the "greater good". He forged a coup, he took us to a new war that backfired terribly, he condoned torture, he double the troops in Afghanistan, and he, quite frankly, loaded the Mexican gun market...when you talk percentages our presidents have a murder rate of 100% whereas regular gun owners have a .2%

and you want to take the guns from US?

Explain that. You are so proud of him sticking with this. Why don't you explain how he's not a fucking hypocrite and you along with him or buying his bullshit?!

The XL
01-29-2013, 02:47 PM
By world standards, it's huge. We have nearly 12,000 gun murders a year in this country. That's more than any other First World country, and I mean by a lot. There have been some 1,300 more just since last month's massacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school. And that's just murders. That's not counting gun deaths from accidents, suicides, or gun-related injuries.

Okay now stop avoiding my question, which was far more pertinent. Your inquiry frankly strikes me as nothing more than an attempt to trivialize the issue at hand, and with it the worth of human life. But hey, you're someone who finds this subject hilarious, so what can I expect?

12,000 out of 300,000,000 is ridiculously small. There is no need to further legislate.

You're not even taking into account the amount of lives guns save. People have the right to both defend themselves and be free, something you apparently don't care about.

What you're also ignoring is the fact that gun control/gun ban only keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens, criminals will have them regardless. Your solution is illogical, based off of emotion, not rationality, and doesn't make the problem better, only worse.

I'm not trivializing anything. People will die, kill themselves, or kill others, guns or no guns. It happens, it's life. Instead of worrying about taking away our rights, focus your outrage and energies protesting Obama and the Democrats massacring innocent brown people in third world countries.

Trinnity
01-29-2013, 04:10 PM
Why hasn't Switzerland or Sweden errupted in gunfire then?Because they don't gave gansta gangs, hispanic gangs, Philly, Chicago, Detroit.....

Guest
01-29-2013, 04:24 PM
Because hey don't gave gansta gangs, hispanic gangs, Philly, Chicago, Detroit.....

Yo, 'sup? I hope you aint talkin' bout the 3-1-3 cuz Imma gonna hafta represent and have some words, dawg! Detroit!!!

Just call me "Rin-Shady"

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpUEv52cFL9bosjBqSrKsrZpVMr86DV hgn6XhTcHCuYzfnPGUMTQ

Guest
01-29-2013, 04:34 PM
That's right, TRAT, you heard me. Hi, my name is, hi, my name is, hi, my name is--chickachicka-Rin-Shady!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ78UEPlRWHtv9sAjBQgjC-da0Bl2887F_b_2aatYawzanv4YGQ

Sinestro/Green Arrow
01-29-2013, 04:36 PM
That's right, TRAT, you heard me. Hi, my name is, hi, my name is, hi, my name is--chickachicka-Rin-Shady!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ78UEPlRWHtv9sAjBQgjC-da0Bl2887F_b_2aatYawzanv4YGQ

There's just no comeback for that. Well done :tongue:

Guest
01-29-2013, 04:47 PM
There's just no comeback for that. Well done :tongue:

Actually, I went from a white version of this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP7rLcL9Q0WFSuCuo52BLBYQ-L97HOFFKsx4CWAQfGnfTlGVRG

To this:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTiOBf5KYxyVR-BHJl8VMpx3Wtk025O9aZlbvv5yhcEPBDywTrDtQ


Damn, education!

Trinnity
01-30-2013, 08:18 AM
By world standards, it's huge. Irrelevant. Totally irrelevant. In that mix worldwide are countries where guns are not allowed by law and such conditions as people who simply don't have any (I'm thinking of rural Africa)

Polly, I don't think you'll ever get why guns are needed and important, and it's not just to DETER govt oppression and tyranny.

If you don't want to have a gun, that's fine. Don't try to get the govt to take mine. I live in the country and I'm home alone a lot. There are crackheads down the road living in a nice modular home they bought with drug money. They have pit-bulls. Our road had 5 burglaries in December of 2011 and our MIL's little house 5 miles away was vandalized. My next door neighbor was robbed that month. I pretty much know who committed these burglaries - well one of the people. AND I've seen the car that the robbers of the next-door-neighbors on my road, last week - these robbers live around here.

I need protection and that means it comes down to ME. I am prepared. You and your ilk would leave me defenseless. Shame on you for wanting to impose your ideology and opinions on my life. You have NO right to lord over ME.

Trinnity
01-30-2013, 08:22 AM
By world standards, it's huge. We have nearly 12,000 gun murders a year in this country. That's more than any other First World country, and I mean by a lot. There have been some 1,300 more just since last month's massacre at the Sandy Hook elementary school. And that's just murders. That's not counting gun deaths from accidents, suicides, or gun-related injuries.

Okay now stop avoiding my question, which was far more pertinent. Your inquiry frankly strikes me as nothing more than an attempt to trivialize the issue at hand, and with it the worth of human life. But hey, you're someone who finds this subject hilarious, so what can I expect?Again, your response is evasive and inadequate. Gun murders PER CAPITA is a more relevant stat. And you didn't properly answer his question. Poor debate, girl.

Calypso Jones
09-05-2013, 09:03 PM
http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uploads/Top-Toy-boy-playing-with-doll1.jpg

GIVE THIS KID A GUN!!