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View Full Version : What would have to happen to make you not want to survive



Roadmaster
03-18-2014, 03:23 AM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

OceanloverOH
03-18-2014, 04:03 AM
An injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds....I'm a big baby about pain. Would I fight to the end? Yes. I don't think there's any other choice. My life is not mine to give or take....that's God's job. (OK atheists and agnostics, it's MY opinion).

Jets
03-18-2014, 05:50 AM
Any kind of pain that's constant.

JustPassinThru
03-18-2014, 07:12 AM
I don't think we know that until each of us gets there.

On the one hand, the instinct for survival is a strong one. Kurt Vonnegut, on one of his characters: "I had given him a life not worth living; but I had also given him an iron will to live. The two were not uncommon on the dying planet its inhabitants called Earth."

On the other hand, some things, sometimes minor things in the eyes of others, take the wind out of our sails. A friend of mine from a major railroad we worked at, was involved in a young woman's committing suicide on the tracks. She was 19 and her boyfriend had dumped her...she bought a CD player (this was before they were commonplace in cars) that afternoon and some country/western CDs, and then late that night, took her car to a rural crossing where the tracks curved...no straight line of sight for the train crews. She knew what she was doing.

She parked her car there on the tracks...and waited, with headphones on, listening to one of those CDs. Train hit her car at 60 mph; and the result was gruesome.

That for what is really NOTHING in the greater scheme of things.

So...who knows? I might be able to survive death of all those around me; but then kill myself because I can't get a good omelet anymore.

Calypso Jones
03-18-2014, 08:01 AM
life IS pain. where have I heard that. oh yes...princess bride.

Beevee
03-18-2014, 09:02 AM
When you have watched someone living with pain, 24 hours a day and 365 days a year, you won't be so flippant about it.

Calypso Jones
03-18-2014, 09:33 AM
perhaps you think most of us are oblivious to pain or have no experience with it either with ourselves, family members, friends?

Ghost of Lunchboxxy
03-18-2014, 09:41 AM
I have an instinctive, deep-seated sense of existential despair, and while I can't envision circumstances right how that would provoke me into suicide, if I begin to falter and fail healthwise I would probably lack the will to live and simply slip away quickly.

Beevee
03-18-2014, 10:01 AM
perhaps you think most of us are oblivious to pain or have no experience with it either with ourselves, family members, friends?

I tend to wonder.

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:02 AM
An injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds....I'm a big baby about pain. Would I fight to the end? Yes. I don't think there's any other choice. My life is not mine to give or take....that's God's job. (OK atheists and agnostics, it's MY opinion).
Constant "intolerable pain" would do it for me.

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:03 AM
When you have watched someone living with pain, 24 hours a day and 365 days a year, you won't be so flippant about it.
Which is why I support voluntary assisted suicide. Letting them up their morphine to a lethal dose should be a right.

Coolwalker
03-18-2014, 10:05 AM
The will to live is primary in us all. Those who succumb to suicide have a mental disorder.

Ghost of Lunchboxxy
03-18-2014, 10:05 AM
I tend to wonder.

What kind of a bullshit, hurtful statement is THAT supposed to be?!?:angry20:

Ghost of Lunchboxxy
03-18-2014, 10:08 AM
The will to live is primary in us all. Those who succumb to suicide have a mental disorder.

The will to live is an animal instinct, and as a result I don't have much respect for it. Humans are meant to transcend nature. While I'm agnostic on the subject of suicide--it's a personal choice--I do believe it can be as rational a decision as the desire to live.

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:08 AM
The will to live is primary in us all. Those who succumb to suicide have a mental disorder.
For a normal, physically healthy adult, yes. Are you telling me that if you are dying and in severe pain from incurable pancreatic cancer, that you'd want to stretch out the pain as long as possible?

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:09 AM
The will to live is an animal instinct, and as a result I don't have much respect for it. Humans are meant to transcend nature. While I'm agnostic on the subject of suicide--it's a personal choice--I do believe it can be as rational a decision as the desire to live.

Agreed. Examples are Marines jumping on a grenade to save other Marines. A mother putting herself between a mad killer and her children.

Coolwalker
03-18-2014, 10:11 AM
For a normal, physically healthy adult, yes. Are you telling me that if you are dying and in severe pain from incurable pancreatic cancer, that you'd want to stretch out the pain as long as possible?

I'd still have the will to live.

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:25 AM
I'd still have the will to live.

I doubt you've ever been or see anyone in severe pain with no relief possible.

Coolwalker
03-18-2014, 10:28 AM
I doubt you've ever been or see anyone in severe pain with no relief possible.

Then you know very little about me.

Max Rockatansky
03-18-2014, 10:32 AM
Granted, but I know a lot about human psychology.

Coolwalker
03-18-2014, 10:37 AM
Granted, but I know a lot about human psychology.


Determined to usher in the new millennium, a terminally ill cancer patient at a Boston medical center somehow survived several close calls with death. His will to live defied medical expectations and carried the man into the first few days of the year 2000.Investigating the postponement phenomenonIn 1990, David Phillips, PhD, of the University of California, San Diego, published an article indicating that fewer people died before a symbolically meaningful occasion and more passed away just after the event took place.
Phillips investigated deaths in the Chinese population and discovered a 35% dip the week preceding the Harvest Moon Festival and an equivalent rise the week after the holiday. Death rates did not change during the same time period in the non-Chinese control groups.
In a similar study, Dr. Phillips found a dip-peak pattern in the Jewish population around Passover. The deaths occurred due to a wide range of natural causes and were not the result of alcohol consumption or other external factors.

What do these findings mean?"We don't know anything about the biochemistry of it," Dr. Phillips says. "But we know that whatever is happening must involve a general set of mechanisms, because the effect seems to work not just for one cause of death but a variety of causes."
Dr. Phillips indicates the research is based more on epidemiologic research than rigorously controlled scientific study. Epidemiologic studies investigate large groups of people for common factors related to a specific condition—or in this case, a medical phenomenon. It can take years for researchers to determine the science behind how people may be able to postpone death.

A history of postponementPostponing death is apparently not a new phenomenon. Dr. Phillips investigated dates of death for people buried at Westminster Abbey—all of who were famous in their time—and found that during an 800-year period, deaths tended to drop off before and to increase after birthdays in the population studied.
"The effect is about the same size in the first 400 years of Westminster Abbey as in the last 400 years," says Dr. Phillips. "It suggests it is not happening because of the physicians. If physicians were producing this effect, then the effect would presumably have been bigger in the later years when physicians had more effectiveness. People were dying of a wide range of things in those [early] days. Nonetheless, you get this drop in death beforehand and a peak afterwards."
Dr. Phillips has also learned that three of America's early presidents died on the Fourth of July: Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and James Monroe. "Jefferson's last words, according to his physician, were, 'Is it the Fourth yet?' which would be an example of someone looking forward to a significant occasion," Dr. Phillips says. "It's hard to believe it's a coincidence."

http://www.beliefnet.com/healthandhealing/getcontent.aspx?cid=14262

Archer
03-18-2014, 10:41 AM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

One, and only one thing... Loss of hope.

OceanloverOH
03-18-2014, 01:05 PM
An injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds....I'm a big baby about pain. Would I fight to the end? Yes. I don't think there's any other choice. My life is not mine to give or take....that's God's job. (OK atheists and agnostics, it's MY opinion).

I wanted to clarify my statement. Suicide is not an option for ME, because of my beliefs. However, I support assisted suicide in view of a hopeless medical condition, etc. as a choice for anyone who feels they need that choice. I don't push my own beliefs on others.

Dan40
03-18-2014, 01:06 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.


Nothing!

Roadmaster
03-18-2014, 02:45 PM
Well people say all types of things like if they had to live underground or in a tunnel they couldn't or wouldn't want to live in that situation. You think the will to survive is in all people but many will give up because of small things. Not enough food, water, alone, danger ect.

Beevee
03-18-2014, 07:07 PM
Which is why I support voluntary assisted suicide. Letting them up their morphine to a lethal dose should be a right.

I have no argument with you on that subject.

Beevee
03-18-2014, 07:10 PM
What kind of a bullshit, hurtful statement is THAT supposed to be?!?:angry20:

When you can prove to me that executions do not create pain, possibly agonizing pain, you can claim I make bullshit hurtful remarks.

Trinnity
03-18-2014, 07:48 PM
Beevee, I know what you went through and I feel for ya man.

Roadmaster
03-18-2014, 08:45 PM
One, and only one thing... Loss of hope. That's what gets most. People see themselves as surviving but never think, what if this happens. You don't have to be old for this to happen.

Max Rockatansky
03-19-2014, 12:25 AM
Well people say all types of things like if they had to live underground or in a tunnel they couldn't or wouldn't want to live in that situation. You think the will to survive is in all people but many will give up because of small things. Not enough food, water, alone, danger ect.Some people are weak and, by adult standards, teenagers are often insane, but that's not what the initial statement was. It asked about "an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds". That's quite a bit different than simply being broke or not asked to the Prom.

protectionist
03-21-2014, 04:12 PM
Having to listen to rap "music" for 5 minutes every day. :smiley_ROFLMAO:

michaelr
03-21-2014, 04:16 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

I have the underlined, don't want the others. I would trade my life for my family under some weird scenario. Other than that, nothing. I'll fight to the end.......oh, I'll fight standing till dead before jumping in a ditch.

Old Navy
03-22-2014, 06:37 PM
One, and only one thing... Loss of hope.

Your right.....Loss of hope, no matter what the cause, may be the determining factor for most of us. And the older you get, that may be the prevalent factor...

old wood
03-25-2014, 09:13 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

Ouh... I was thinking...out of beer and the internet is dead. But... that might just turn me into a killing machine...nothing to lose.

Then again..if my legs were totally fucked up and there's no food and I'm stuck with a bunch of babbling idiots.... that might do it.

old wood
03-25-2014, 09:44 PM
Your right.....Loss of hope, no matter what the cause, may be the determining factor for most of us. And the older you get, that may be the prevalent factor...

i had a very strange experience one morning. I drove off a mountain road and my ford Pinto was airborne..flying off a mountain..between a lot of big redwood trees. Assuning my life had just seconds left.. I got quite calm.. was curious.. not scared. I flew through the trees..over a steep ravine and... someone just had rototilled the only flat ground anywhere near, for a garden. I probably flew 100+ ft for maybe 4 -5 seconds.. it seemed like 5 minutes . By the time i landed the Pinto (and VERY neatly) ... I'd considered all damages to ME..to the CAR..and all my regrets. NO HARM.. soft landing... a 1 in 10,00 shot. I LAUGHED like a loon.

I don't know any logical reason for KARMA.. but I believe I needed it that morning. I did have to replace the radiator. There was a big rock on the edhe of the garden. I tried to STEER around it. You can NOT steer a Pinto if it's airborne It was quite a deal getting it towed out of that spot.

Different folks.. react different. I could AGONIZE about how do I make the rent... but facing probable DEATH... the hopelessness actually.. made it rather simple..not to mention..unique. When there's nothing you can DO... it's a moment where you have NOTHING that's on the to-do list... you just live in the moment. I can understand how a War Hero... might just accept that the odds are dismal.. and cease to worry and do whatever it takes.

Matt
03-25-2014, 11:15 PM
Nothing. I'd rather fight till the end. Life is boring. I think it would be far better with a zombie apocalypse personally.

lostbeyond
03-25-2014, 11:25 PM
Governments have perfected the method to take away people's will to live. Since the 2nd half of the 20th century, this has been a standard practice to assimilate people of annexed territories under nation states.

The stages this happens is to first artificially limit resources and thus increase competition. Then to inspire fights. Then to limit mobility in order to maintain the stress of competition after the winners and the losers got decided. This stress then biologically removes the willingness to live. Also, many experiments on rodents and rats have proven this well tested method. A political superweapon, especially in international affairs. E.g. see the South Tyrol German initiating the termination of their own territorial autonomy in Italy.

lostbeyond
03-25-2014, 11:28 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

Loss of mobility. In all sense, not only physically.

Roadmaster
03-25-2014, 11:38 PM
If you get to the point where you can't go on, turn around and make a stand. You may not save your life but help the ones behind you or a least give them time to get away.

ManilaFolder
03-26-2014, 12:31 AM
Any sort of pain below the belt would pretty much do it for me.

Englishpaul
04-24-2015, 04:31 AM
nothing, I will fight to the last man if I have to, in fact my aim is to be "last man standing".

lostbeyond
04-24-2015, 08:58 AM
This is actually a very interesting sociological question too. Can your mind be engineered in a way that you don't want to survive? The communist tried this using femine but unsuccessful. Nationalists try too but even today their agressive assimilation falls short. The muslims come the closest, with the highest number of successful suicide bombers. How would you attempt to engineer people's survival instincts?

Englishpaul
04-24-2015, 09:58 AM
personally I wouldn't, the less that survive means more room for those that do.

old wood
04-30-2015, 11:43 AM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

I HAVe had people tell me they'd rather..at this point..DIE. They had no reason to see ANY option for even minimal 'quality of life.". If you are dying of cancer,,, if you are 90+ yr old and were alone, crippled by stroke and other problems.. the day to day reality is pretty bad and the future looks worse. I have seen that.

When it comes to "Doomsday" ...it is a FACT...there's scenarios that can be damn near hopeless.. even if very unlikely. You can find "possible" scenarios that render human life extint. Most are very unlikely ..at least in the lifetimes of any of us. There ARE things that can be CATASTROPHIC....whether global or regional. Those... can be long term events or sudden and extreme. In MANY cases.... What can you DO? well...not a lot.
I GET being ready for realistic emergencies. I LAUGH at the sheer ignorance/paranoia/folly that becomes OBSESSIVE for some.

If your game is to be the trigger happy, paraoid shithead in the area.... THAT may not make you ANY friends in times when a few friends can matter a LOT. Some... go way off the edge... are thinking the can wage war on Uncle Sam...that somehow there's a TON of sociopath cultts that can rise up and restore whatever ....usually the "ideals" of the KKK from 100 yr ago.

I HAD teanded to be ready for certain things... the Electricity could go out, the car could die, I might go awhile with little or no income. I lived out of town, and I had "tools"... had "gear"... but while I could get through a week.. a month... there's stuff that..honestly.. is a bit beyond any realistic "prepper" thing unless you can buy a small farm and learn to do it Amish style.

gamewell45
04-30-2015, 12:01 PM
Being forced to eat my mother-in-laws cooking. :)

patrickt
05-02-2015, 06:18 PM
It depends on what's being offered for my life.

Roadmaster
05-02-2015, 06:44 PM
This is actually a very interesting sociological question too I thought so too and no I didn't come up with it, borrowed it from another site.

Snappo
06-10-2015, 07:15 PM
Being forced to eat my mother-in-laws cooking. :)

I was weirded out until I saw the word cooking at the end.

Jen
06-10-2015, 08:39 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

Sometimes I don't want to survive now. ... but that's something else.

I think that hopelessness would make me not want to survive. If there was no hope for my loved ones to be pain free; if there was no food to eat and they were starving; and if I could do nothing about it and there was no hope that I could ever do anything about it, then I would not want any of us to survive.

My youngest brother's grandparents (he is adopted) died of starvation. Their 5 little kids had to go to an orphanage in the Mojave desert to survive (that's where my mom worked for a while before she married my dad). I can't imagine dying that way. But being in that sort of hopeless situation would make me want to just die.

Hopelessness.

Jen
06-10-2015, 08:42 PM
Which is why I support voluntary assisted suicide. Letting them up their morphine to a lethal dose should be a right.

It kind of is ........ When my brother-in-law was dying, we had his morphine drip upped a couple of times to ease him into death a little easier. Maybe that's not what you meant, but it's what we did.

Sheldonna
06-10-2015, 10:01 PM
A pandemic disease, an injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds, watching love ones die, another reason. What would make you not want to survive and would you fight to the end.

Knowing that most (if not all) of my fellow Americans, friends and family are already dead and/or dying would probably make me want to give up and die too. But who knows? That's just a guess based on my current mood and pure speculation. Nobody ever really knows how they will react if and when.

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 10:09 PM
An injury with incurable intolerable pain without meds....I'm a big baby about pain. Would I fight to the end? Yes. I don't think there's any other choice. My life is not mine to give or take....that's God's job. (OK atheists and agnostics, it's MY opinion).

And you help god by fighting to the end,because life is a precious gift whether one is a believer or a non-believer.
I fight to the end also!!

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 10:13 PM
The will to live is primary in us all. Those who succumb to suicide have a mental disorder.

Some maybe.I think many are very depressed and do not think of the guilt and suffering their family and friends probably willl be left with.

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 10:16 PM
Then you know very little about me.

Just as you know very little about people that commit suicide.

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 10:18 PM
I wanted to clarify my statement. Suicide is not an option for ME, because of my beliefs. However, I support assisted suicide in view of a hopeless medical condition, etc. as a choice for anyone who feels they need that choice. I don't push my own beliefs on others.
No,you do not.But thank you for sharing your beliefs OceanloverOH!!

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 10:28 PM
One, and only one thing... Loss of hope.

Suicide is a terrible legacy to leave your children.Time can change everything.Hopelessness ,many times ,can change, given time.
I have thought about it in the past.I think of all the good things I would not have experienced and the pain I would have caused my children and others that love me.
Unless you are terminal and/or in agonizing pain that will never end consult your love ones and determine if it is an option they can live with.

Matt
06-10-2015, 10:56 PM
I almost want something to happen. I want to fight for my survival. I want to be challeged where there are high stakes. Life is boring, mundane, and barely worth going through. I want to push the boundaries. I would kill for a zombie apocalypse or anything really.

sotmfs
06-10-2015, 11:04 PM
I almost want something to happen. I want to fight for my survival. I want to be challeged where there are high stakes. Life is boring, mundane, and barely worth going through. I want to push the boundaries. I would kill for a zombie apocalypse or anything really.
be careful what you wish for you just might get it

JustPassinThru
06-11-2015, 12:51 AM
I almost want something to happen. I want to fight for my survival. I want to be challeged where there are high stakes. Life is boring, mundane, and barely worth going through. I want to push the boundaries. I would kill for a zombie apocalypse or anything really.

Hundreds of millions of people...will die.

Almost certainly more than half the population. And those who survive, will probably not be nice people.

Statistically, your odds are better than even that you will die.

And it won't be entirely up to you, either. It will be being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong roving bandits suspecting you have the right kind of food that they'd like to have. Bam-bam, they shot you down...dead-dead-dead.

I suggest you use some of your extra time, your dead time this summer...in the sun with a good book.

A survival-story book. Start with Lucifer's Hammer - if you have imagination, it will curl your toes. How the right people go around the bend; how some of the not-so-nice ones wind up safe and valued; how an urbane Senator becomes a dicatator for a countywide group of survivors...DICTATOR. He orders who will live in what house; who may eat and how much; how many calories allowed. Hoarding was a crime answered with banishment - and that would happen without trial.

Cannibalism. A good sergeant of an army unit, led astray by a chance meeting of his old hood-bruddah buds. They're hungry...they lack imagination...takes them two days to get to cannibalism. And insert into that a television preacher...who cracked up; and who takes this band of cannibals as the Lord's Chosen...and blesses their ritual sacrifice of captured victims and their cannibalism.

THAT, is - very believably - what could happen to us. SOON. We are on the edge of it.